Who will be this year’s surprise and who will dominate football this year. It’s never too early to talk High School Football.
Who are your top players in 2012? Who do you think will be the top teams going into the 2012 season?
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Here is my 2 cents on the recruiting conversation… It happens in every sport in PA primarily in Catholic, prep & private schools. To this day you have families trying to move their kids to “loaded” suburb public school districts. They end up going in front of the PIAA for review ala Rob Gronkowski( Woodland Hills in Pgh, he won the hearing by the way)Then there is the city schools doing it because of the open enrollment in Pgh and Philly alike but until the PIAA says different it is “legal”…so it is what it is. Every year is a new year so just play ball with what you got and see what happens.
Last go around: Parents who have $ and kids who are above average athletes will attempt to send them to a Catholic School. Go to the front desk of any one of them and look at the register. You will see representatives from IVY, Patriot and other top D1/D2/D3 academic schools signed in. Only foolish parents believe sending their kids to college to play football is smart. The smart ones go for the education and then to play football. If they are good enough, some will go to the pros. Also, we area talking about now, not back in the day to compare public-private. Bosco started their quest back in the 70’s. 40 years later they made it to the top!
Joe, first my kid is out of HS. He played varsity 4 years both ways. I have watched Bosco starting back in the late 70’s and PA schools don’t technically recruit like Jersey Catholic schools, but they line up kids in the middle school years through parents who have the $ and know its a stepping stone to IVY/Patriot league and maybe a top D1 School. If has nothing to do with competing, it has to do with a level playing field. Tired of this subject. Play with the kids in your school district and every once in a while maybe more frequently you get a really solid class.If you think a coach wants to play a stacked Catholic School in the playoffs you’re out of your mind. They want a fair shot. Go google or talk to the AD’s in Jersey, they’ll tell you about the BS that goes on. Funny thing some of the public school coaches try to grab kids from outside their districts
@Jeff North Bergen is a public school… Second that is my point look at Bosco and Bergen CATHOLIC recruit like Dematha etc. what you don’t understand is that is what will happen to Pa if we seperate. I’m sure your one of those guys who complains to coaches about playing time and it’s never your kids fault. It’s called competing, maybe we can take all the public schools who don’t want to COMPETE with catholic schools they can form there own division have there own state title game. My prediction would be you would get a handful of schools and that is it. Most schools and coaches would want the competition.
It might not be “recruiting” but lets say some try to line up kids to play for the hs. not the kids, they’re probably all good kids, its the coaches and administrators.
@ Jeff:
There is probably no one on this web site that doesn’t concede that Jersey schools recruit.
But we are in Pa. Send us absolute proof that private schools in Pa. recruit.
There is a lot of speculation, but I haven’t seen any real proof. But even if there is some of that going on, the non-recruiting & the “recruiting” schools in eastern pa. are very competitive. No private school has dominated.
Also, I remind you of Berwick back in the day. They were accused, & probably rightfully so, of recruiting. That was a public school.
it is an unfair advantage to have recruiting schools play agaisnt non recruiting schools. Let them play during the regular season. You guys are our of your minds. the Catholic school lackeys miss the main point. It’s not the top 4 teams or so, its the really good ones in first 2?3? rounds that get knocked out. In the end the top teams tend to be pretty competitive. Remember Danny Almonte who was 14 and played on a little league team agaisnt 12 year olds? Slightly different but yet the same. Those kids that were really good got knocked out of mabey going one or two more rounds. If you guys still insist it’s fair let the PIAA rule any kid can play for any team? What’s the issue then other than chaos.
No Catholic Schools dont recruit! It’s starts in the middle schools. ONJSIAA finds legendary North Bergen football coach recruited players, places athletic program on probation
Published: Friday, May 04, 2012, 6:00 AM Updated: Friday, May 04, 2012, 7:05 AM
By Craig Wolff/The Star-Ledger The Star-Ledger
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Last fall, Vincent Ascolese crowned his long career with a final glorious moment — one more championship for the North Bergen High School football team he had coached for 39 years.
Thursday, the governing body for high school sports in the New Jersey sharply reprimanded Ascolese, finding he recruited two star players — mainstays in the title run — and placing the school’s entire athletic program on two years probation.
After a 10-week investigation, the New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association found that Ascolese, with the help of his family, lured the players to North Bergen. In a special report, the organization said the players — Denzell Leitch and Eric McMullen — were urged and enticed to transfer schools. Ascolese rented them apartments at bargain prices in a house next door to the coach’s own home, the report said.
Unsparing in its direct language, the NJSIAA report laid out a string of trespasses against one of the organization’s cardinal rules. It said the coach’s relationship with the players had created “an inherent conflict of interest.” But it stopped short of stripping North Bergen of its state championship, leaving many in New Jersey’s tightly patched sports community confounded and angry over what they said was a missed opportunity — to take a strong stand against an old problem, the recruiting of student athletes.
“It’s like I robbed a bank and got probation and got to keep the money,” said Rick Rodriguez, the football coach at Bayonne High. “It’s a pretty good deal.”
With the probation, the school has to provide proof to the NJSIAA with the start of each season that every one of its athletes on all its teams is eligible for competition. School administrators will also have to attend a remedial course on the association’s rule book, to take what the report calls an “eligibility workshop.”
Should the school violate any rules during the probationary period, it could be suspended from state playoff competition.
The investigation, sparked by a report in The Star-Ledger in January, drew upon the divergent accounts of the two talented teen-aged athletes, their parents and Ascolese, a venerated coach. Ascolese retired after 50 years of coaching soon after the school captured its 8th state title with a heart-thumping catch in the final seconds against Montclair High at MetLife Stadium last December, winning by a single point. Hard feelings and controversy spiraled almost exactly from that moment.
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Amidst celebration in the locker room, the coach approached Leitch’s father, Ingram Leitch, about back rent he was owed, and within a few days, Ascolese told both players it was time to pack their belongings and get out.
Ascolese, the report says, misled the school into believing Leitch was living with his father in an upstairs one-bedroom apartment on 82nd Street in North Bergen when in fact the player lived there alone, beginning with the start of his junior year in 2010. McMullen arrived this past season, moving into a larger apartment on the first floor with his mother, Debra Johnson.
Rent was low, $300 for Denzell Leitch and $750 for Johnson, who paid only sporadically.
Neither Ascolese nor the players – both of whom graduate next month — were penalized. But a lawyer for the NJSIAA, Steven Goodell, said probation served as a stern warning to the school to avoid further infractions.
“They have to reform their practices,” Goodell said. “If things had been different, if the coach was not retiring, he would have faced additional penalties.”
Robert Lane, an attorney for Ascolese, said there was only one interpretation of the report — that in keeping the state title with North Bergen, the NJSIAA had exonerated the coach.
“Coach Ascolese had an unblemished 50-year career in high school sports, one of accolades and achievements,” Lane said. “He was a credit not only to his own school but school sports in general. He is extremely gratified for his players who earned this championship on the field in a hard-fought classic game.”
The report concluded that three members of the coach’s family — a daughter, son and grandson — promoted North Bergen to Leitch, encouraging him to transfer from Xaverian High School in Brooklyn. The grandson, Vin Ascolese, an All-American at North Bergen, is also graduating this year.
Rules barring gifts and money to prospective players were violated, the report said, when the Ascoleses paid for Leitch to attend a summer football camp in Oklahoma, and the apartments at cut-rate rents equated with “subsidized housing.”
“It is not credible that Coach Ascolese would not have known that he was living alone,” the report said.
Overall, the report questioned the wisdom of a coach becoming involved in what amounted to a business relationship with students.
“Importantly, this case demonstrates the inherent conflict of interest that occurs when a coach enters a landlord-tenant relationship with his players,” the report says. “These were not arms-length transactions.”
Montclair’s athletic director, John Porcelli, said he was struggling to reconcile the NJSIAA definition of a recruited player as ineligible with a rule saying a team has to forfeit games in which they used an ineligible player.
“I’m trying to be as diplomatic as possible, but I’m surprised and disappointed,” he said. “I would never want to gain a championship by forfeit. I honestly assumed they would vacate
K fellas, where there’s smoke, there’s fire:
In regards to Wood, they had a great team last year. It was a peak year when several key players were seniors. But that was just one state title. I remember just a few years ago they got crushed by TJ. I expect them to come back to earth this year.
@ Jimmy:
One important fact you missed, not everyone, actually not most, parents can afford to send their kids to LaSalle, Prep or even Wood. So it won’t get as diluted as you think.
Having said that, they still shouldn’t seperate public & private. Until the day it gets like NJ, but I don’t believe it ever will.
@ jeff:
I kinda agree with phillyboy, I’m not sure what you’re saying in your last comment either.
@ Jeff & Hentz,
Agree, leave it the way it is. Believe both private & public leagues are equally competitive.
Any updates on whether North Penn is leaving the Continental League?
Thanks.
@ Jeff:
phillyboy is right. Definetly do not seperate public & private ( catholic) schools for playoffs. It would be way too watered down.
The competition is very good as it stands. Just when you think no public school can beat LaSalle, North Penn does it last year.
PCC was odds on favorite this past season to be state AAAA champ. What happens? A public school knocks them out of the playoffs early.
Believe or not, someone will probably beat Wood this season. Might happen very early. Probably will be a public school.
As for now, it’s very competitive the way it is.
@ jeff — Honestly, not quite sure what the point is you’re trying to make. Could you please clarify what you’re trying to say.
@Jeff you actually need degrees everywhere to get into school, in fact there is something called Proposition 48 where you have to qualify based on a sliding scale between core GPA and SAT’s. It’s an NCAA regulation to accept a letter of intent to play.
@Jeff To echo’s Joe’s point it would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to Pennsylvania HS football to split Private/Public up.
Reason one would be recruiting. You want to talk to recruiting split the publics and privates up. It will be a free for all. And here are 2 example New Jersey and Maryland. The public schools will become as Joe said unimportant. State Championships will not mean nearly enough as they do now, because it would like winning a district title. Private Schools will then follow the lead of Don Bosco, Bergen Catholic, Dematha, etc and it will be geared more toward national recognition. So if I play at North Penn and winning a state title really has become a joke where will I go North Penn or Wood where presumably would take on the national type of schedule and play ESPN be featured on rivals (I realize they did this year) but on year to year consistent basis. Well then a kid from north penn is going to go to wood. After anout 3-4 years of this the talent pool at public schools will become so diluted because every District 1/12 Kid will be at Wood, West Cath, Lasalle, Prep; every D11 kid will be at ACC, every D3 kid will be McDevitt and Lancaster Caath. The only people likely to survive would be the WPIAL because of the long standing tradition, but with the other privates making there hay dont think that PCC wont make a significant push.
People who do not public and private to play in the same playoffs simply do not want to compete. It’s the people who complain to coaches and need an excuse when losing to privates.
To Philly boy, if you follow the PIAA, the issue has made it’s first hurdle advancement this off season. Based on what is happening elsewhere and mirroring NJ’s post season splitting public and privates needs to be done sooner than later. Private schools need money and those who have that and good athletes for a son or daughter know this increases their odds of getting into the better academic schools. Only dopes think the NFL is a career. Remember, you don’t need a transcript to get into the U of Miami, just an arrest record.
The private schools in PA are mediocre. Sure, PCC now and then has a pretty good team, and the PCL champ is usually competitive at the state level but that’s no reason to separate them. It would be a classic case of fixing something that
is not broken. Over in Jersey there is a big difference for some reason. Apparently there is a big recruiting advantage in NJ. Even Ohio doesn’t separate the private/public. It waters down the tournament. There’s already enrollment classifications. How much do you want to water it down. It would be so cheesy. A team would not be able to say that they are true state champs. They would have to say they’re the Public state champs or private state champs. That’s totally corny. But to reiterate, in PA the public teams at AAAA have won 19 of the 24 state tournaments. I will keep reminding people of this until it registers. I’m sorry. I don’t mean to confuse you with the facts.
@ Jeff — Why do you think that the PIAA will separate public and private schools for the playoffs in 5 years?? Is it because you think the private schools have an unfair advantage? Do the private schools in PA dominate? ….NOT! At the AAAA level since 1988 when the state tournament began public teams have won 19 of the 24 years. Or maybe the should separate them because the public schools are dominating big time. The public schools own the private schools in PA. Central Dauphin is the reigning AAAA champ.
If they separate public and private it would be the worst thing to happen to Pennsylvania sports. And all the public people who have cried about it will see public school football become largely unimportant.
To HS Fan, you miss the point, the recruiting starts in middle school. PIAA within 5 years will separate public and Catholic Schools during the playoffs.
Anybody know something about Shamokin this year? I know they won the D4 AAA title and then lost to ACC last year. They have a QB who was a freshman.
just cuz its a catholic school doesnt always mean they recruit. ACC for example won a state title with all kids that played together in catholic middle schools so obviously they would continue to play at a catholic high school. i know its different for other areas but not all catholic schools recruit its not a fair judgment to say oh its a catholic school and they are dominant im sure they recruited. things havent changed since 88 when they implemented a state tournment. some schools recruit some dont. public schools recruit too maybe not as much as they used to but it happens
Coachs/fans/etc.
I just stumbled upon this blog. Great convo. I feel a lot can be solved by adding more classes. There are a lot of teams in the state and the PIAA wants to cram all this into a season. Across the river NJ has (6) classes, NY has (12), and Mass (19). 19? are you kidding me? NJ and Mass are what maybe 1/4 of the size of PA? Opening up can be the anwser to alot of problems. As for the recuiting part, it does happen I have seen it first hand. Here in Philly for all intents and purpoes, its open enrollment for public school unless you want to go to a speciality school. The better kids get recruited by the better teams and the rich stay rich for the most part. Also the game has passed some of these coachs by. They eaither dont want to evolve or cant. Lastly money is a killer. Can these other districts say that they are cutting the entire middle school (in only its 7th yr) program thats reigon based not school based as well as all JV football programs because of lack of funds? Fact is Dist 12 was and still is a HEAVY pop warner/NESAC/liberity bell area. There is no foundation to build programs. Most of the PPL teams gave the middle school teams the time of day. They were too busy head hunting pop warner games. To loosely quote a newpaper, “… the only sport that PPL will be able to compete with the rest of the state is basketball..” (roughly 8 PIAA titles since joing). And was before the PCL came to help us out lol. Thanks for reading
Hentz,
No updates yet.
@ phillyboy:
Yep. The playoffs are one game too long.
@ Josh Funk:
Hear anymore about North Penn moving to the other ( National) division?