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2022 Football Forum

Written by: on Monday, January 7th, 2019. Follow David Mika on Twitter.


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2022 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams, and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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3,092 Responses to “2022 Football Forum”

  1. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin, I can only speculate at this time ,sinc eI have no insider info on the cancellations. I do know that those two teams have very solid programs and Wood was in a chaotic position with no HC and losing at least 5 solid players to transfer. This should have been avoided for sure. I hope Armstrong can pull the program back together. Wood still has I believe 4 Division 1 players but not at skill positions. Such a shame .

  2. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Since you are our go to Archbishop Wood point person, I just saw on this site that they are looking for two games to start the season. Saw in different places previously a game against Red Bank Catholic in OC to start the season and a game against St. Anthony’s (NY) for their second game. Are both those games off (assuming that they were ever on in the first place) do you know??

    Seems like a very choppy off season for Wood.

    I know Harrisburg was looking for a Week 1 (OK, or is it still officially Week”0″) some time ago. They still looking?? That could be a nice first game match-up.

  3. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65 the starting QB just left Wood for Imotep. I am guessing the hire was too late to stop the bleeding.

  4. mcd 65 says:

    Dave Armstrong named Head Coach at Archbishop Wood. he was a stud fullback at CB West and recently was an asst coach at Wood. Good luck to him.

  5. mcd 65 says:

    Well its June and both Pennridge and Wood are still without a head coach. Whats up here????

  6. mcd 65 says:

    Well,Wood lost 2 more starters that had transferred there from McD last year and a there is a mention of another considering it now. Mikw Watkins would not have left Wood if Walp had left earlier. Wood is in a bad situation as it stands now. @ Thomas ,what the devil is going on there??

  7. Wpialguy says:

    In todays transfer portal era, kids are far more likely to move around. Especially with the 7 on 7 or AAU teams. Community based teams are the rarity anymore and as a result kids are far more likely to change teams.

  8. S Woods22 says:

    @Bill it’s 2022 kids transfer ALL OF THE TIME. And look around the PCL and the city as a whole it’s happening in every program. I just saw the other day that a kid is leaving SJP to go back to NJ. Should we sound the alarms on the Prep program? Judge, LaSalle, Ryan etc. lose kids every year as well. This is nothing new.

  9. Bill says:


    I had heard that they had lost a kid or 2 to Northeast. I must have been mistaken. I did hear about the cheltenham transfer as well as another going back to Middletown. It was not just one kid who transferred. Could have been tuition issues, but that is everywhere. This will be a big year for them to take a step forward. Hopefully they finally do.

  10. mcd 65 says:

    Anyone hearing about who the candidates are for the Head Coaching positions at Wood and Pennridge ??

  11. S Woods22 says:

    @Bill can you name the kids who they lost to transfer? They lost 1 player to Cheltenham to my knowledge, 0 to NE. So perhaps it’s one kid transferred, rather than a bunch of kids leaving like you lead on.

  12. Kevin X says:

    Since there seems to be a roll on PCL football talk at the moment, can you guys confirm or correct me on what I see are the classifications on the larger schools in the PCL for the next 2 years:

    6A: SJP, LaSalle and Judge, who moves up to 6A

    5A: Wood and Roman, both move down from 6A

    Everyone else 4A and below.

  13. Bill says:

    They have alot of talent. But they did lose some to transfer as well which has kind of been under the radar. A couple left for Cheltenham, a few to Northeast high school and other institutions. Do not know the story there, but it may seem that kids and parents are starting to think the same thing you are. Even with the departures they have the talent to do something this year. Whether or not they finally do is another story.

  14. S Woods22 says:

    @Frank I can see where the disappointment comes from. You probably look online, twitter, instagram, etc. and see all of the offers rolling in for kids on Roman’s roster and then see W’s and L’s and think that doesn’t add up. I get it. But like I said they were very young the past two seasons. This season they have more experience returning and I would think they would be more successful. Can I give you a record prediction, no.
    Romans best player last season was a sophomore, he’s 15 years old. Their QB, also a sophomore. Defensive backfield was littered with sophomores and a couple of freshman. These were kids competing against men.
    In my opinion the next step would be stacking up some W’s beating some of the tougher opponents on their schedule and fewer let downs against opponents that some may see as inferior.
    Without a doubt, they are going to have one of the more talented rosters in the city/state this coming season. Lets see where they stand in November.

  15. FrankG says:

    @ S Woods22. What is the next step? Aside from the regular season win against LaSalle, I thought Roman was a big disappointment last year.

  16. S Woods22 says:

    There are a lot of moving pieces at Roman(speaking on the school not program) that create some disadvantages for the program however Coach Prete is doing the most with what he has.
    He is attracting tons of talent from all over the city, suburbs and now S. Jersey.
    As far as the wins and losses go, keep in mind the team as a whole has been very young. This season is the year I expect them to make the jump. Their junior class, Coach Prete’s first class is very talented and I expect those kids to mature this season and take the next step.

  17. mcd 65 says:

    @ BILL, Any school with 17 players with offers [committable or not] indicates colleges have been noticing the talent drifting Romans way, and in turn that school SHOULD be on the rise. I definitely hear you in reference to their on field record. I would think with McD closing more North Philly athletes that may have gone there, will head towards Roman,Northeast and Imhotep. This season will tell a lot about your mention of coaching ability at Roman. They are loaded with talent.

  18. KeBuChamp says:

    Being 5A means nothing in the wins and loss column. It only matters for playoffs. And 5A still goes the (maybe) Wood and Tep. Romans regular season schedule still consists of the teams they play year in and year out. Don’t expect much difference from them.

  19. The Joneses says:

    I don’t disagree with offers being committable and non. The cycle of things on the rise is the truth about it will come out. If it is as advertised results will match. If it is purely hype, the results will match. Some might argue they have nothing to prove because the expectation has never been high. It’s simply a sound marketing plan bein implemented like never before. They participate in events none of the other PCL school participate in. I don’t necessarily think they are promote a winning team/culture. It appears it’s simply a different one with some different bells and whistles. Prep has the national schedule, ESPN games, deep playoff runs and is top of the pecking order. Roman is carving a space. Could merely be a flash in the pan. I think being in 5A now will increase there wins.

  20. Bill says:

    @thejoneses while that is true, how is it not translating to wins on the field? Their schedule is similar to every other pcl team, in fact they have played a few teams from the interac and lower enrollment schools. Offers are also committable and non-committable. There is a difference between the types. And that difference between the types is considerable. I just think there would be more wins and the trend would not be downward if they are all the hype. Players could be being improperly pitched to higher level schools power 5 schools based on raw measurables (which will hurt them long term) or the talent is truly there and the on-field coaching is just not there. Just a strange situation but definitely a talented team with alot to prove.

  21. The Joneses says:

    @Bill it depends on your perfective. Roman is drawing talent more now then ever before. The players are getting scholarship offers to play at the next level from Power 5, Group of 5 etc. institutions. Only one team can be the state champion. If you can play, not win a state championship and still get to the next level, Roman becomes a legitimate options for Athletes that would have previously considered LaSalle, Prep and IMOTEP, which they weren’t doing at a high level previously. It is definitely an elevation in standing in my opinion.

  22. Bill says:

    Wood definitely has alot of issues right now. Most of which seem to be self inflicted. Roman most certainly is not on the rise. Their record actually got worse over the years despite bringing in talent. That team has the most to prove given all the buzz they attempt to generate for themselves on different websites and social sites.

  23. mcd 65 says:

    Does anyone know where Mike Watkins is coaching now ?? Thomas C. Im sure Wood did good by the guys that left. I have 3 kids that attended Wood and each one had a positive experience there. I just wonder what the heck happened with those two since they apparently had no issues at McDevitt for their first 2 years before the school closed.

  24. KeBuChamp says:

    As far as the kids getting expelled…i hear it was a “transfer now or be expelled” type of thing. Lots to unravel at Wood. Gotto assume with most assistants leaving and no positions being filled, that there was something going on within the staff. Is Watkins next in line?

  25. Thomas C. says:

    @mcd65: regarding the ‘transfers,’ Wood did what was best for the kids despite not having to, nor should they have IMO. These kids were not good students academically or disciplinary wise. Regarding the program – what happened is the program changed hands three times over and the third hire was an absolute disaster. Devlin took what he had learned at SJ Prep and implemented it at a school that had the makings of being a good team (none of us ever expected that grand success they had). He then passed it off to Kyle A. who knew exactly what it took to continue that, and he played for Devlin. This current (well now former HC) just was not at all a good hire – he wanted to do it his way and that way was never successful let alone with a program that was used to winning state championships.

  26. Thomas C. says:

    @mcd 65: regarding the ‘transfers,’ Wood did what was best for the kids despite not having to, nor should they have IMO. These kids were not good students academically or disciplinary wise. Regarding the program – what happened is the program changed hands three times over and the third hire was an absolute disaster. Devlin took what he had learned at SJ Prep and implemented it at a school that had the makings of being a good team (none of us ever expected that grand success they had). He then passed it off to Kyle A. who knew exactly what it took to continue that, and he played for Devlin. This current (well now former HC) just was not at all a good hire – he wanted to do it his way and that way was never successful let alone with a program that was used to winning state championships.

  27. Thomas C. says:

    GO FIGURE – I checked in with someone closely involved and you’re right – it’s being chalked-up as the good ole’ gentleman’s leave.’ I’m being told it was to save face and protect the kids (which I’m sure helps them in the long run with that thing called accountability…).

  28. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65 I think the plan was for him to take over because Walps was supposed to step down and said he wasn’t. He was staying one more year so he took a position elsewhere, which many weren’t happy with. I too was shocked about the players being expelled. Sad but true. Wood is in shambles right now. Roman looks to be on the rise.

  29. GO FIGURE says:

    @ Thomas C.

    They were expelled? Are you sure about that? If they were, THE PIAA CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS Article 6 Section 6 states:
    Transfers Following Expulsion or Anticipated Expulsion.
    Not withstanding the provisions of Section 3 of the article, a student who is expelled from a school, or who withdraws pending likely expulsion, for conduct which, had the student been allowed to remain at the sending school, would likely have resulted in loss of the opportunity to participate in interscholastic athletics at that school is ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at the receiving school for a period of one year from the date of transfer or, if the student demonstrates by compelling evidence that the period of ineligibility at the sending school would have
    been less, for the demonstrated period of ineligibility at the sending school.
    Where a school has prohibited a student from participating in interscholastic athletics at the school, the student shall be ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at any other PIAA member school for the shorter of (1) one year from the imposition of the school’s prohibition, or (2) the period that the student would have been prohibited from participating at his/her school.

    So will District 12 follow their own bylaws or will they ‘let it slide’ at it as usual?

  30. mcd 65 says:

    @ Thomases, I know what I read and that was both transferred. So whats up with the football program . This is upsetting after so many years of success.

  31. Thomas C. says:

    Mcd 65 – also, was just informed that Walps has resigned.

  32. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jonses, Whats up with Mike Watkins ,former McD HC.? I would think he would have been taking over at Wood.

  33. Thomas C says:

    Mcd 65 – please do some homework, man. Neither player you mentioned (Tyrese, Semaj) ‘transferred,’ they were expelled.

    Also, the problem is the assistants were/are growing tired of the coaching style and environment Walp’s is trying to implement. The OC resigned, OL/DL coach resigned, DB coach hired to be HC at Radnor.

    Lastly, Tyrese and Semaj are talented kids but to be dismissed from Wood is incredibly hard to achieve – that should be all you need to know about those two.

  34. Thomas C. says:

    Mcd 65 – please do some homework, man. Neither player you mentioned (Tyrese, Semaj) ‘transferred,’ they were expelled.

    Also, the problem is the assistants were/are growing tired of the coaching style and environment Walp’s is trying to implement. The OC resigned, OL/DL coach resigned, DB coach hired to be HC at Radnor.

    Lastly, Tyrese and Semaj are talented kids but to be dismissed from Wood is incredibly hard to achieve – that should be all you need to know about those two.

  35. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65- I don’t think the exodus is complete. I was told Wood has not hired a new OC there which isn’t making some on the offense feel comfortable going into junior year.

  36. irish1 says:

    @ Foleman, I think the rosters on max preps are pretty much left up to the head coach of each school to provide info. PJP is actually been much better with providing info. I saw all PJPs games last year. From what I can see I think most of the key players minus Williams are back. Most are from traditional PJP familes. I did see one linemen that looks like is no longer there. Not sure who the receiver is that may have gone to Perk Valley. PJP actually plays Chestnut Hill again this year.I agree that he isnt big enough to play at Div one level. I could see a div 2 school taking a chance on him. A player with that kind of speed could be a factor in the return game and get reps at receiver.

  37. Foleman says:

    Irish1, those Maxpreps roster’s are cut and paste from the previous season and are not 100% accurate. I heard that 2 lineman are at Pottsgrove, 1 receiver is at Perkiomen Valley and Williams is at Chestnut Hill Academy. From what I heard about Williams was that he was not happy with the offers he was getting and he thinks he is a Division 1 player. Williams is fast and a good HS player, but played at 135lbs last year and missed a few games due to injury. At 135, he’s not even a Division 2 player, and shame on any school that he was talking to that was telling the kid they can get him a Div 1 ship.

  38. mcd 65 says:

    Archbishop Wood lost its second Division 1 LB to transfer. the first was semaj Bridgeman to Imhotep. He has offers from about 35 schools including almost every SEC school. .Alabama and Georgia were the most recent offers. Tyrese Whitaker has transferred to Northeast . I WAS expecting Wood to be a solid contender for a 5 A run ,however this has certainly changed the scenario for sure. Im wondering if there is something awry going on there.

  39. Irish1 says:

    @foleman, Looking at max preps roster for pjp I only see two transferes a lineman and Williams. Surprised to see a senior and captain transfere. Any word on a reason? Only thing I can think of is if they need Graver was thinking of leaving. Reed was an assistant coach on last year’s team. They had a solid staff guessing some went with Graver. Getting Reed is very solid hire

  40. Foleman says:

    Irish1, glad to see Reed get the Head Coaching job at PJP, he will do a good job there, I was hoping PJP would stay in house. First order of business for Reed is to stop the bleeding as 4 kids transferred out which included Lightning quick wingback and captain Kece Williams, there could be more transfers that I don’t know about.

  41. Wpialguy says:

    Foleman…. You are very right. The problem is that people don’t want to give up their fiefdoms and when schools have debt, mergers mean schools have to take in the other schools debts. You also have the problem of parents not wanting to bring in certain areas or classes of people. I’ll leave it at that buts certain districts will not want mergers. For every Central Valley, there is a Woodland Hills type merger that has led to a lot of unhappy people. I think beaver county is a great example though. You have New Brighton, Beaver falls, Rochester, Beaver, Freedom and Western Beaver all within 10 minutes of each other, none of the schools are larger than 4A.. and all but beaver have dwindling student populations. And you may see more people move into the area if the school is bigger and can provide more resources for their kids.

  42. Michael D says:

    Is there anyone from Districts 5/6 than can outline the new football league memberships for this upcoming season and/or that following season? Is United Valley a new school? Much appreciated

  43. Foleman says:

    PA needs to put politics aside and place the taxpayers first, so many small School districts could merge and save the taxpayers millions but the local politicians……many of them who attended these schools don’t have the will to close these schools. One more thing, the number of school age children is dropping dramatically across the State. My Local Public SD was a 6A school 10 years ago, a 5A School 5 years ago and now is a 4A school. Less kids in the Public SD means less athletes at these schools and when a star athlete transfers from a Pub to a private, it really hurts the local Pub SD, if more schools followed the Central Valley model of consolidation then maybe we would see more Pubs able to compete against the Private schools in sports.

  44. Irish1 says:

    Scott Reed is new head coach at PJP. Former head coach at Perk Valley where he won two Pac Ten titles

  45. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x

    I have been a big proponent of school district consolidation. There are too many small districts. Most of the development and families are moving into new suburbs and not the old steel towns.

  46. camisetas de futbol says:

    It is being widely reported out here (WPIAL) that Eric Kasperowicz will be named the new head coach at Mars Area high school. Mars Area is a 4A school immediately to the north of Pine-Richland. Its also being reported he already owns a house there and his son (who would have been starting QB at P-R) will be transferring to Mars. Mars will compete in the same classification as Thomas Jefferson, Aliquippa, Central Valley, and North Catholic.

  47. Kevin X says:

    @ Wpialguy

    Thanks for the reply. I’ll stay out of this for the time being other than to say it would be interesting to see the WPIAL go after separate public/private WPIAL playoffs than regular season contests. Also, I think the bigger issue out your way is demographics, that being a dwindling younger population mixed with too many small schools/school districts. Would not be surprised in the next 10-15-20 years of seeing some big time school district consolidation throughout the state, especially out west, which would drastically change the landscape.

    I’m guessing you probably saw this doozy of an article/situation:

  48. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x… right now the smaller schools are the ones leading this charge. There are only two private schools in wpial 4A or above.. north Catholic and central Catholic. Those two schools will play publics no matter what.

    In the smaller classes, you have a lot of private schools. In essence, the public schools don’t want to be put into sections with the private schools and don’t want to play them in the regular season. Their reasoning is that these schools can poach the athletes they see as the best on the public school teams after seeing them in The regular season. They want to have the private schools compete in their own section and then enter the playoffs. It could work as you could have a section with
    Seton lasalle, greensburg cc, Serra c, OLSH, bishop Canevin, Imani Christian and shady side academy, And more basketball schools like sewickley academy, Eden, Geibel.

    In essence, there were schools who were poaching athletes that were in the same section and the schools were leading teams to wins against schools they played for last year. For small schools, this hurts, as 1 and 2a schools sometimes have only a few good athletes, so if they are poached it hurts.

  49. Kevin X says:

    @ EPA’s Western PA Correspondent Bureau guys:

    So is the WPIAL going to reorganized their sections, conferences, etc. into separate public and private divisions?? They really did get stung pretty good by those D12 teams in the hoops tourney didn’t they. Guess the PIAA isn’t going to do anything further in the public/private debate, so this is how D7 intends to take matters into their own hands?? I don’t get it, but maybe you guys can enlighten me. I also heard another option is to reclassify teams based on competitiveness and not so much strictly on enrollment. That I get. Would go back to the traditional enrollment classifications for the playoffs, but regular season at least theoretically would have some semblance of a competitive balance, and therefore better, more enjoyable/watchable games.

  50. irish1 says:

    @Foleman, also never saw this coming. He had PJP program rolling. I guess getting a higher paying teacher job might have something to do with it,but Wissahicken doesnt draw great talent and seems to go thru coaches every few yrs. PJP has been on such an upswing,didnt really hear anything about players transferring out. Its a shame this happens at late stage with August not far off. Hope they are able to bring in a quality coach.

  51. Foleman says:

    WOW! Pope John Paul’s Rory Graver named Head Coach at Wissahickon. Didn’t see this one coming at all, Graver completely turned around a program that was dead in the water and in my opinion is one of the top offensive minds in the State. I thought he might leave for a college program but not for a Pa Public School program. PJP would seem to be a better job due to the large geographic area it has to draw from VS a Wissahickon. I am wondering what led to his leaving? I heard a few studs were looking to transfer out of PJP a few mos ago. I don’t think it would be difficult for PJP to find a top notch coach to replace him whether it’s internal or external.

  52. Wpialguy says:

    What’s interesting is that North Catholic, located a mile or 2 from Mars and who plays at Mars’ home field for their home games will be in 4A and the same section as Mars. Kasperowicz will no doubt have to get kids to return from North Catholic and play at Mars instead. Mars ran the wing T offense. Kasperowicz runs a pass heavy offense. Will be a year or two of growing pains in my opinion but they should be a good team. I would also expect Mars to be on the edge of 4/5a every two years. Also Mars and Pine Richland are mostly the same socioeconomic status, made up of suburb housing plans. The districts intertwine with each other in certain neighborhoods. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Pine Richland players end up in the Mars district as a result.

  53. New2PA says:

    It is being widely reported out here (WPIAL) that Eric Kasperowicz will be named the new head coach at Mars Area high school. Mars Area is a 4A school immediately to the north of Pine-Richland. Its also being reported he already owns a house there and his son (who would have been starting QB at P-R) will be transferring to Mars. Mars will compete in the same classification as Thomas Jefferson, Aliquippa, Central Valley, and North Catholic.

  54. Kevin X says:

    Well it happened. All 10 hoop games that involved a private/catholic/charter school won their respective games. That include all 6 boys games. I believe the PIAA will be getting an earful, directly and indirectly, with these results. Curious to see if there will be any reactions or comments by the PIAA. I understand that they shut off/disabled their Twitter “reply to.”

    Don’t know if it was a one off for football this past season with the true publics taking 5 of 6 championships. Guess we’ll see in about 9 months.

    @ Foleman, I agree, if Reading was full strength going into states, I believe that they would at least be playing tonight.

  55. Foleman says:

    When the Public and then Catholic Leagues joined the PIAA, it was pretty much a given that they would be the dominant force in Hoops across the State in Boys and Girls Basketball. Basketball is a city game, and when you factor in the number of kids to chose from, their’s a lot more 6’6 hoops players in the Philadelphia area Vs a coal mining town. I do think Reading would have won 6A again if their Center didn’t get hurt before the playoffs. Reading also has 2000+ boys to chose from. I think the playing field is starting to even out in Football, hoops is a different story, you only need a couple of stud basketball players in the starting 5 to be a powerhouse. Kennedy Catholic won the 6A title a few years ago and they were a Class A school. Will be interesting to see if Bridgeman is ruled eligible for the playoffs at Imhotep in Football, if he is, the PIAA should just throw out all the transfer rules.

  56. Kevin X says:

    A slight correction on my part, as I stated that 11 of the 12 hoops champions could be private/non boundary schools, but make that only 10 of 12. Both the 2A and 6A girls games are all public boundary match-ups. Off to a good start, 4 of 4 champs are in the private/catholic/charter/otherwise non boundary category. The Twitterverse is very much enjoying this 🙂

    Football question, District 4’s Jersey Shore, are the playing 4A or 5A the next two years?? Thought they got bumped up to 5A. If so, did they loose their appeal?? Did they even appeal or just accept it??

  57. Wpialguy says:

    Basketball is just another level. Imhotep is nationally ranked, with a kid who won a state championship in Tennessee last year. Imhotep plays public new castle. Neumann gorretti plays public Quaker valley. And poor Freedom area girls from out here in district 7 have reached the schools first ever basketball state championship and play Neumann Goreti girls. OLSH is one win away for tying the state record for wins in a row at 68. Private schools are definitely dominating basketball

  58. Wpialguy says:

    Fair enough. I guess there is a different side to every story

  59. Kevin X says:

    I see that LaSalle is back playing North Penn (@ North Penn) in the first game of the 2022 regular season (so it that Week 0 or Week 1??). Then North Penn travels up Rte. 309 to Quakertown for their second game of the season. I don’t recall them playing Q-Town recently. That would have been a good game last year.

  60. Thomas K. says:

    Commute wasn’t the reason Bridgeman moved on from Wood. Maybe it had something to do with him being dismissed from the school…

  61. Kevin X says:

    I’ll take some liberties with post since it is the off season and it has been fairly quiet around here up until the past few days. Tomorrow starts the final 3 days of the winter sports season for the PIAA with the basketball championships in Hershey. Being the instigator that I can be at times, I’ll give this sleeping bear a big poke, that being one of our occasional favorite topics of private/catholic/non boundary schools versus public boundary schools. For those of you who may not be aware, there are 24 teams competing in both boys and girls divisions, with 15 of those 24 teams being non-boundary schools. Or another way to look at it, only a third of the teams that are playing for a state championship are public boundary schools. I think this conversation/debate was at least temporarily put on the back burner for football as the WPIAL took care of business in December against McDevitt, Imhotep and SJP. It is conceivable, come Saturday evening, there could be 11 of 12 champions in basketball this year that are non boundary schools.

  62. mcd 65 says:

    WPIAL guy, Bridgeman lives a great distance from Wood ,and close to Imhotep as well as McD. He tried the commute to Wood since many of his teamates from McD went there. I dont blame him , the bus ride one way is over an hour.

  63. 4th & Forever says:

    WPIALguy, Welcome to SE PA. Did you notice none of the schools was his local public school? In fairness, as was said, McDevitt (Philly) did close, so he had to transfer at least once.

  64. Wpialguy says:

    3rd school in 4 years for that kid? Wonder how long into his college career he will be in the portal.

  65. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd_65 Yes that transfer was huge. I had Wood ready to contend for a state championship as well. It definitely changes the landscape.

  66. mcd 65 says:

    Semaj Bridgeman LB/TE from Archbishop Wood formerly from McD which closed , is transferring to Imhotep. I thought Wood had the makings of a very good year and would challenge TEP for District 12 ,5 A title and maybe States. With this one transfer , it changes this scenario for sure. Bridgeman has 35 offers at last count including Georgia ,Texas A@M, Michigan ,Florida ,Florida State ,PennState among others. Too bad for the Vikings. Imhotep was already pretty loaded as usual.

  67. Foleman says:

    Mike Mischler retires as Erie Cathedral Prep’s Football Coach, 20 years at the school, 23 total in HS. Many thought he would resign when his son graduated and he won his last State Championship. One of the top coaches in Pennsylvania-(5 State Titles), he will remain as Director of Facilities at ECP. He’s still young enough to get a college coaching position somewhere, I doubt he goes back to Coaching High School. Class act through and through.

  68. Kevin X says:

    @ Drew
    @ Foleman
    @ FrankG
    @ 4th
    @ Route 54

    Thanks for your responses guys. I may chime in more later with all of this.

  69. Kevin X says:

    Very interesting and detailed article on the bidding for the football championship games. For those of you thinking that they should be at Penn State, their bid was absolutely hilarious, and then add in the James Franklin angle. Plus the natural grass field.

    I have no issue moving the games out of Hershey. Hershey had its pluses and minuses, but not enough pluses to keep them there year after year. I’d personally love to see the championship weekend moved around the state year to year, or every two years within their classification cycle. My question is though, if there is a delay or issue with the instillation of the new turf at CV, then what?? Hope they have a “Plan B.” Lots of potentially negative moving parts, supply chain issues/product availability, labor issues/availability, cost overruns, build quality, who knows what else can rear its ugly head in today’s world.

  70. Route54 says:

    Responding to PIAA move of Championship games.
    They got it right. Hershey was getting stagnant for location. The Penn staters wanted happy valley to land DI players. The committee got it right with Cumberland. Time for change.

  71. Drew says:

    @Kevin X

    If I’m understanding correctly the WPIAL voted to not let Butler compete in D10 this cycle . Butler appealed and lost. D10 won’t let them in either unless the WPIAL allows it.

    Originally left to compete in D10 because of low numbers. Program has grown in recent years so WPIAL says they need to be in WPIAL. Butler still holds that they don’t have the ability to compete on a weekly basis yet and won’t play in WPIAL.

    They will not be eligible for any playoffs this cycle.

  72. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, this is what I have for who’s moving up and down:

    Redbank Valley (1A -> 2A)-Appealed, staying at 1A
    Bishop Guilfoyle (1A -> 2A)
    Southern Columbia (2A )-Staying at 2A after appeal, mixed feelings on this one, they are just too good for 2A, you would think they would want a challenge for a couple of years.
    Central Valley (3A -> 4A) Enrollment growth causing the move up to 4A
    Wyomissing (3A -> 4A)-Appealed the ruling a 2nd time and won, staying at 3A, stated a transfer was homeless, parents divorced etc, not buying a word of it but it worked.
    Aliquippa (4A -> 5A)-Appealed-Staying at 4A due to blowback from all over the State and that they are already playing up 3 classes
    Jersey Shore (4A -> 5A) Moving up to 5A
    Cathedral Prep (5A -> 6A)-Appealed, Staying at 5A, cited blowouts to TEP and Pine Richland the last 2 years in the playoffs, Population really declining in Erie, Villa Marie and ECP merging next year to from 1 coed school.
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)-Appealed, staying at 1A
    Farrell (2A)-Appealed lost, now 2A
    Imhotep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A -> 5A)-Back in 5A, TEP and Wood will battle once again for East Supremacy.

    So 5/6 appeals won. Why even keep this stupid rule. Base it on on the field results and do not include the transfers. Once again the PIAA doesn’t get it right.

  73. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    I understand Hershey had its downsides, e.g. shabby locker rooms, a mediocre playing surface, but it had tradition and felt like it was a bigger stage than a usual high school field / stadium.

    As someone asked on another board, how is Cumberland going to handle games on Thursday and Friday without closing the school on both days? It does, however,look large enough for the crowds that have been attending in recent years. That means there’ll be a be a better atmosphere than in a 15-25% filled Hershey Park.

    Penn State’s stadium would make even a good crowd (e.g. 8-10 thousand) look small and would make most of the crowds of recent years (2-5 thousand) look tiny. Hard to imagine it would be a good atmosphere–and it would be harder to get to for people from the Eastern part of the state. I assume the drive from Pittsburgh is about the same as the drove from Pittsburgh to Hershey. Correct me if I’m wrong about that.

    If you’re just thinking about the site itself and not the travel, Bucknell strikes me as ideal: bigger and nicer than any high school stadium but not overwhelming. I doubt the PIA would pay the cost, though.

    A big problem is that with six classifications the games are now spread over three days. That makes hosting difficult or impossible for many sites.

  74. 4th & Forever says:

    Not a D3 guy (never even heard of CV) but my understanding is they are going to have an 8K+ seat stadium, new press box, Jumbotron, new locker rooms, two turf practice fields. IDK if PIAA is covering some of those costs, but sounds top notch and it underbid Hershey.

  75. Kevin X says:

    Can any of you D10/NW or D7/WPIAL guys fill me in on what the heck is going on with Butler?? Guess I’m just too lazy to research or look into the situation myself, but what are they, D10, D7, ostracized from both and potential subsequent district playoffs and therefore any PIAA state playoff possibilities?? Looks like another fine district and/or PIAA mess that has been gotten into (at least to these eyes from the other side of the state).

  76. Kevin X says:

    I’m guessing most of you guys have already heard that the PIAA is moving the football championship games 20-25 miles west from Hershey to Cumberland Valley High School (along with soccer and field hockey (FH formerly at Whitehall HS)) for the next 4 years. I believe the the other options/choices were Altoona, Penn State and remaining at Hershey. Any thoughts, comments?? Curious to know from you D3 guys, or anyone who has been to a game at CV, how do you think it will work out.

  77. Foleman says:

    Route 54, Wyo signed a 2 year home and home contract with S. Columbia in 2020, the 2020 game was cancelled due to covid. Berks County has merged with the Lancaster Lebanon league next year to form a super league, Wyo, along with Berks Catholic are going to play in Div 4A, one division up as they are both 3A schools. They might not have room on the schedule for S. Columbia or the schedule just might have been a little too tough as they will be playing Berks Catholic, Pottsville, Cocalico, Conrad Weiser and Lampeter-Strasburg which is very difficult for a 3A school.

  78. Route 54 says:

    I was informed back in October that SCA would play Wyomissing again in 2022. Now I’m being told that it has changed. Anyone know why? Wyomissing had no troubles with them. Wyomissing could have hung 60 on them if they wanted.

  79. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, anybody have a final (if it is final) list of schools that are actually being moved up in classification do to the success formula?? The bits and pieces I’ve seen, it appears just about everyone was winning their appeals. Bishop Guilfoyle (and ECP??) the only team(s) moving up?? Central Valley is moving up, but that is due to increased enrollment I believe. I also understand Wood and Lackawanna Trail are moving down in classification. Anybody else in this category (of schools that have been moved up previously)??

    Also, any idea of how the playoff brackets will look over the next 2-year cycle?? Any interesting changes??

  80. BLOCS says:

    Buddy, 4th & Forever:

    Here is an article from a few years back regarding EITC credits and the BLOCS program in Montgomery County… I have attached the link to the entire article but copied the nuts and bolts of the program. This is totally legal.. What is interesting is that the BLOCS funding can be directed to specific directives of the LLC and 96% of the funds are directed that way.

    Since 2001, Pennsylvania’s EITC program has allowed businesses and individuals to lower their tax bills by donating to private schools, scholarship organizations, pre-K programs, and other educational enrichment initiatives. The bulk of the tax credits — $110 million per year — are reserved for donors that give to scholarship organizations, which provide financial aid to children attending K-12 private schools. Businesses can donate up to $750,000 each year to EITC-eligible organizations, and then claim 75 percent of that donation as a credit that offsets their state tax bill. The credit can increase to 90 percent if they commit to donate funds for two consecutive years. For instance, a business that pledges a $100,000 donation for two consecutive years could receive a $90,000 credit each year, which chops $90,000 off their tax bill. Critics of the EITC program say it deprives the state of potential tax revenue and subsidizes private school tuition for families that choose to leave public schools. But lawmakers who support EITC tout it as a win-win for businesses and school students. The businesses get attractive tax credits that encourage them to stay in Pennsylvania, they say, and students get scholarships that offer them an alternative to public schools. The program is most popular in Montgomery County, where businesses and individuals claimed $35 million in tax credits on $39 million in charitable gifts. Some of the largest contributors to EITC programs are Limited Liability Corporations (LLCs). These “special purpose entities” represent individual donors giving to private charities, according to Bill O’Brien, executive director of Business Leadership Organized for Catholic Schools, a leading recipient of EITC funds. O’Brien’s organization, which predominantly grants scholarships to children attending Catholic schools in the Philadelphia area, operates more than a dozen organizations named BLOCS Scholarships LLC. Those groups were some of the largest donors to EITC programs last year, giving a total of $15.6 million to claim $14 million in tax credits. O’Brien said the LLCs represent hundreds of individuals who donate to the BLOCS scholarship fund. The foundation passes the tax credits on to its donors, and manages the special purpose entities to save them the headache of doing it themselves, he said. O’Brien said that most of the donors are “high-net-worth” individuals making sizable gifts. Individual donations usually start at $5,000, he said, but most are closer to $15,000 or $20,000. The vast majority of EITC donations fund private school scholarships for children whose families meet certain income criteria. BLOCS was the single largest recipient of EITC contributions last year, taking in $18.5 million in contributions, according to DCED data.

    The vast majority of the children who receive BLOCS scholarships go to Catholic schools, where tuition can run $4,500 for elementary students and up to $10,000 for high schoolers, O’Brien said. O’Brien said that poorer families may receive larger grants that offset most of their tuition. But most families pay at least something out of pocket to finance their children’s private education, he said. “Families pay what they can — maybe $100 to $50 a month — because we want [them] to have some skin in the game,” O’Brien said. “This is a decision they are making for their child, and we want them to want it. If you’re just giving it away it doesn’t do anyone any good, but we try to help as many families as we can.”

    Since the state doesn’t collect data on the income level of children who receive scholarships, Williams argues, there’s no way to know if the scholarships make private education accessible to low-income children, or simply subsidize families whose children would enroll in private schools anyway. “What I’m concerned about is that there is virtually no accountability,” Williams said in a Senate Education Committee meeting last week. “We don’t have hard facts about who is benefitting and how these kids are doing in the schools.”

  81. 4th&Forever says:

    Joneses, all of the schools in FCS have the same recruiting/scholarship limits unless further restricted by their school or conference. In Pennsylvania HS football there are different rules for where a school’s players can come from. Public schools are supposed to play with the kids in their individual school boundaries, though some districts like Philly have open enrollment. Private schools have no boundaries. City limits, county and even state lines mean nothing. On the flip side, most of the kids in private schools have to pay to attend. Regardless, I’d hardly call that the same rules.

  82. The Joneses says:

    4th & Forever your right and it actually proves my point. First we know PIAA rules are the same for All schools. Many state and believe in their minds SJP has a different set of PIAA rules. They do not. NDSU example just merely shows people will always complain when things are they way they want them.

  83. 4th & Forever says:

    Joneses, unlike SJP, NDSU plays by the same rules as everyone else in FCS. As far as Aliquippa and SC, I think they should be allowed to compete at whatever level the want, at or above their natural enrollment classification. I think forcing schools that play by the same rules as everyone else to move up a classification because of the “Success Formula” is ham fisted at best.

  84. 4th&Forever says:

    Foleman, I can’t give you all of the reasons why individual schools football fortunes wax and wane. In general, sports (especially football) participation is down. When I was in HS, all but a couple of the “football type” (strong, athletic) kids at least gave the game a shot. Now there are a lot of kids who are physically made for the game who want no part of it. Places where football is more a part of the culture no doubt do better, but that trend of decreasing participation is almost universal across the country. The PCL might have always been the best league in the state, but its participation in state playoffs coincides with the decline of District One.

    As far as your son… that sucks. There’s probably not enough tape for a PWO offer, and those rarely lead to scholarships at most schools. If he’s interested in continuing to play, his coach can reach out to small colleges and explain the situation. D2 schools often won’t offer significant aid until your sophomore year anyway. D2 football is in a weird niche most places, but it’s still fairly strong in PA. D3 is also an option, but no $ and he doesn’t have the tape for the coaches to help him with the admissions department, so he’s going to qualify strictly on his academic record with no push from football. Best of luck to him.

  85. The Joneses says:

    @4th & Forever, I don’t like name calling, however, anyone who thinks one division just needs to try harder is a moron. I think good coaching and preparation can be a gauge. No one has the ability to simply say they need to work harder. The western PA request should be answer grant as you stated because it mirrors the what happens in the SE.

    Wow Foleman that really sucks. Especially bc the AD didn’t know the rules that governs the tasks he was hired to perform.

    It doesn’t end at the HS level as I was reading once North Dakota state won yet another FCS national championship people were calling for them to be forced to move up to D1 A. They one every year from 2011-2021 missing only 2016.

  86. Foleman says:

    4th & Forever, the Catholic League for decades was the most powerful league in the State hands down. For example CB West had the longest win streak in the State at 55 games and just came off a State Championship, who stopped the streak? The Catholic Leagues Cardinal O’Hara, which ended up with 6-4 record. Changing demographics in Philadelphia caused the weakening of both the Catholic and Public League-many stud Catholic football players today head to St. Joe Prep and TEP is where where many of the Public School stud football players go. Prep was an also ran in the Catholic League for years until Gil Brooks took over, Prep always got football players in the Philadelphia area and S. Jersey to go there but nothing like today. How TEP gets all those players to go there is another story, Prep is one of the top academic schools in the region, TEP was almost closed due to poor test scores a few years back. I will give you District 1 was better a few decades ago but the Inter Ac schools were there back then and the Ridley’s, N. Penn’s, Coatesville’s, Neshamany’s, Downingtown’s, and CB Wests-(the latter 2 were 1 large school back then) were much better than they are today and it’s not due to Private School Poaching. A few years ago, I watched District 1 Champ Downingtown West play District 3 Central Dauphin in the State Playoffs, I was STUNNED how small Dwest was and that they only had a few good football players, CD scored every time they had the ball, scored 65 points and could have scored 100 if they wanted to. 2A S. Columbia and 3A Wyomissing and Central Valley would have beaten District 1 6A Champ Garnet Valley this year. My son went to the local Private school which was a powerhouse in football, the Public school football team was trash and not a very good school academically, quickly found out the Private school was promoting 2 Div 1 running backs at the expense of my son, transfers to Public School his Sr year, the AD at the Public School didn’t know we could appeal the transfer and be eligible right away, he sits out the 1st 3 games, scores several TD’S in his 1st couple of games he was eligible, then he twisted his ankle and broke his hand the next game, end of scholarship.

  87. 4th&Forever says:

    Joneses, I admit I’m a broken record (I wonder how many even understand that reference) on the public vs. private subject. I just found the move by the small public schools in western PA to be a pretty small ask. Being from the SE, I admittedly don’t know a lot about schools outside of D1 and D12 and didn’t realize the request to split privates and publics is primarily driven by basketball. However, I do take issue with the “D1 sucks, you just need to try harder” narrative. From ’96-’04 D1 had a finalist in 4A every single year. It wasn’t just one school, either. CBW, NP, Neshaminy and the combined Downingtown all made the finals. Since then, there have been two D1 teams to make the finals, the last in 2012 and both lost. The top talent didn’t suddenly take a nose dive, it just went somewhere else and now those public schools are playing against their own kids. SJP has made every final since 6A was instituted and the lower classifications are similarly stacked. The “D1 (and D12 public) coaches and players are lazy” mantra is demonstrably BS. In a state where public schools outnumber privates 8:1, individual public schools will catch lightning in a bottle and win a lot of championships and they deserve kudos. Aliquippa is nationally recognized and SC is a truly amazing program, but at the top classifications individual publics can’t match the year in year out dominance of the D12 private schools. I don’t know if there’s a solution, but I tire of the “D1 sucks” comments… things are different in the SE.

  88. The Joneses says:

    @4th & Forever I was wondering when we would come back to this narrative. Are we saying MT Leebo taught us nothing? That was not fluke to me being there live. Maybe the players and Coaches there not only worked their butts off, but also didn’t believe they were at a disadvantage against Prep? We didn’t make it deep into the year before it went back to the same ole stuff. Are we really saying no one else can do that with their typical talent pool? I don’t know much about MT Leebo. Did they have a bunch of transfers this year. I think Freedom made the semi-finals for the first time this past season. Where private schools in their way the entire time?

  89. GaryZ says:

    Shout out to the D7 (WPIAL) guys… Tyler Boyd&Aaron Donald. #WESTSIDEBESTSIDE D7. #WPIAL

  90. D11 Matt says:

    Just saw Northern Lehigh’s 2022 schedule on the school website. They will be A next year. They will be playing a tough 3A schedule again vs North Schuylkill, Northwestern and Notre Dame green pond. They could be 6-4 and be a favorite not only in dist 11A but eastern A. Return entire lines, TE, and four skills starters (from a team that made final 4 in AA last year). And they wouldn’t have to play southern if they went deep into playoffs….or Bishop G who moved up. Watch Northern Lehigh in A next year. Would love to see a Northern Lehigh-Old Forge state playoff game!

  91. Wpialguy says:

    The smaller public schools are the schools leading this charge. The smaller publics have been the ones hurt by the smaller privates. Specifically in basketball. Bishop Canevin is beating every single a team by 40 plus. In 2a, OLSH set the longest winning streak in the WPIAL history at 64 games. These smaller schools with 30 kids on a football roster are decimated if one or two of their best players leave. The AD’s have said if they play them in the playoffs so be it, but they don’t want to play these teams in the regular season and give them a look at their best players who they can then take the next year.

  92. 4th & Forever says:

    Foleman, you’ll get no argument that the PIAA transfer rules are a mess. However, D1 was a dominant football district until about two decades ago and Philly even had some decent programs. In basketball, Philly public school competition was legendary. Then something happened that made the privates more attractive. At first, it was the chance for a better, or for many, a religious education. Those reasons have always existed. I suspect as some of those schools won, they were able to attract talent that just wanted to win or play against the best. Whatever the reasons, it’s not whining because the results are undeniable. You left out NG, LaSalle, and pretty most of the Inter-Academic in your list of schools that are getting the D1 talent. 80% of the schools in the SE are public, but over 80% of the “blue chip” football talent and about 2/3 of all D1 players come from private schools or Imhotep. The handful of publics that are still competitive tend to be further out like Coatsville, Downingtown, and NP. This isn’t a new thing, or unique to SE PA, but the degree of private school dominance hasn’t been seen before to my knowledge.

    What does it all mean? We don’t have a level playing field and calling it whining ignores the reality of the situation and is demeaning to the players and coaches busting their tails out there only to come up short on natural talent. I find the public schools desire to separate the private schools out west into a separate league to me modest, bordering on naive, but things are different out there as well.

    Curious about your son and why he went to a private, then transferred back to a public and how it cost him a scholarship? None of my business if you don’t want to expand on it. I lacked D1 talent, but in the end, I loved the small college experience. School was always first, because there was no scholarship to hold over your head and the coaches understood that. Between financial aid and first shot at the easy “work-study” jobs, the debt was pretty minimal, but it was admittedly a different time and place.

  93. Foleman says:

    4th & forever, Only 3 schools-St.Joe Prep, Archbishop Wood and Imhotep charter seem to get the pick of the litter for players in football in the NE. You can also add in Malvern Prep, but they are not in the PIAA. District 1, with more 6A and 5A schools than anyone in the State absolutely stinks in football, can anyone blame them for going to those schools. Many of the good Public league players go to Imhotep because they win. It seems like a few AD’S out West are crying foul about a few players transferring in to Bishop Canevin, I don’t know the story but I bet they transferred in from a few Lousy Public schools. The NCAA took the right approach, you get 1 transfer without penalty and that’s it. The Piaa put in a rule where you have to sit out a part of the regular season and no playoffs if you transfer in your Jr or Sr year. My kid transferred in from Private to Public and this stupid rule, which penalizes the kids cost my son a scholarship.

  94. 4th & Forever says:

    The WPIAL ADs have set a pretty low bar IMHO by asking to separate the private schools into separate leagues from publics. Seems like a very reasonable ask. I hope they can keep the public schools competitive there, because in the SE, the only public schools that are still competitive on a state level are far enough away from the population center of Philly so it limits the number of private schools that can recruit their players.

  95. David Mika says:

    D11 Matt. Mid February I will start entering them. First, I am going to do a update first before we switch over to 2022.

  96. D11 Matt says:

    Hey Dave,

    When will schedules be released and listed for upcoming 22 season?


  97. Wpialguy says:

    Rumor is pine Richland is moving to hire Ledonne away from Penn hills.

  98. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, true about Wyomissing Borough, but you’re forgetting about West Reading and the demographic that’s been key to Wyomissing’s recent success.

    WPIAL, that knife cuts both ways. I know area Catholic programs that lose players that have attended Catholic school from K-10 but transfer to power public programs when the latter is better positioned for success. It tends to be cyclical and snowball — as soon as Canevin has a couple of 5-5 seasons, watch what happens in subsequent years.

  99. Wpialguy says:

    Small schools on this side of state are getting upset about private schools poaching players…on the surface it looks like sour grapes.. but it is an advantage. How can a public school compete if say… bishop Canevin beats them by 40, what is stopping the best player on public school to transfer to canevin? When a school only has 30 kids on the team, one or two best players transferring can be killer.

  100. Michael D says:

    Thanks for the update Foleman…never knew the reason why

  101. Foleman says:

    With Aliquippa, Wyomissing and S. Columbia winning appeals, the PIAA should just scrap the success formula. Erie Cathedral Prep hasn’t presented yet and something tells me since they are a private school, they have no chance of winning an appeal. What was interesting is that Wyomissing used “Unique Circumstances” to counter a transfer and stated divorce, homelessness and financial difficulty in its presentation. Wyomissing isn’t Aliquippa, its the wealthiest area in Berks County, the average home price in Wyo is over 300K, highly doubtful if anyone in Wyomissing is homeless.

  102. Kevin X says:

    Quip’s big day with their PIAA appeal hearing. Wyo’s also.

    OK guys, its very simple, get rid of this whole transfer clause garbage and you’d clean up this debacle of a success formula/competition formula immediately. Good luck to those teams trying to appeal success only points when they are faced with promotion (see, I didn’t use that cowardly word “punish”).

  103. mark dodgson says:

    nice piece D3 Mike makes since so you know it won’t be considered

  104. D3 Mike says:

    Regarding the Aliquippa op-ed, someone with access to the info and basic knowledge of statistics should be able to calculate football vs. athlete vs. non-football transfers into these schools. If movement is truly driven by socioeconomics, I would expect to also see a high number of transfers that *don’t* play football, all of which could be used by the PIAA to refine the transfer rule. For example, if Aliquippa turns over 10% of the sophomore class each year, I would also expect 10% of the sophomores on the football team to be transfers, on average. If that’s the case, Aliquippa should get a waiver; they shouldn’t be penalized for poverty.

    However, the flaw in the logic used in the op-ed is the notion that socioeconomics and athletic transfers are somehow mutually exclusive. It’s entirely possible that there are a lot of transfers into Aliquippa due to socioeconomics… AND a number of kids switching for athletics. Comparing the baseline, student population transfer rate with the number of transfers to specific athletic teams would help tease out this distinction.

  105. Foleman says:

    Michael D, I remember vaguely that the Head of the Catholic League at the Time-Father Joseph McFadden, first said something about their application was rejected due to internal matters, whatever that means, and that they could reapply in the future if they wanted, they applied in 2018 so it looks like they wont be reapplying anytime soon. Devon Prep, a similar school who also does not have a football program was voted in in 2017. Holy Ghost Prep was rejected not only by the Catholic Principals but also by the Catholic League Athletic Directors which tells me a few schools had it out for Holy Ghost Prep.

  106. Michael D says:

    I know this is football forum…but got a basketball question if I can…….looking for D12 or even D1 people………Does anyone know why Holy Ghost Prep was not accepted into the Catholic League a few years back when they applied….not assuming but did Wood or Egan maybe have an issue with that? Seems with all the schools that closed they would of wanted them….great hoops tradition but I could see them maybe starting football somewhere down the line….Just curious and im not picking on AW or CEC

  107. MikeS says:

    Hey Buddy, he had a couple of visits to schools, gal is a single mom, so think it’s more about the opportunity to play at a higher recruited school and unless I misunderstood, it’s not costing her a dime more than she is presently paying. She also said she hasn’t heard a word from anyone on the North Penn coaching staff,

  108. Foleman says:

    Wyomissing also appealed, they lost, they are going to continue the appeal process. They met the points criteria for moving up but I am not sure about the 3 transfers. I know one kid moved from NY State to Wyomissing, another kid was in the program in 9th grade, transferred to Berks Catholic and then transferred back to Wyomissing his Sr year, those are the only 2 I can think of that played on the team.

  109. mark dodgson says:

    what happing to Aliquippa is probably not fair .I don’t like the rule because it penalizes a team that hasn’t played yet . a team wins states them everyone graduates and a bunch of inexperienced players have to play tougher competition. seem wrong to me you penalizing kids on what their kids did before them..Aliquippa says that kids don’t go their to play football it a lot of other reasons ,but i have to wonder how a school with 118 boys come up with 4- 300 lb athletic line men when all the district 2 had about 8

  110. Buddy says:


    Yea, what else is new. Don’t know how the average family affords this. Besides the tuition at a private school, they still

    have to pay the school taxes for NP. I assume these are people of means. Ironically, I heard NP is not a bad school district.

    In the top 5% of public schools in Penna. Beats me.

  111. Brian says:

    I said that this would be the outcome.

  112. Michael D Smoll says:

    Hey Buddy Just an FYI, District 1 North Penn, most probably lost their best Middle School running back this past year to one of those schools without boundaries, or so his mom has strongly hinted.

  113. Brian says:

    In regards to the Aliquippa situation… why don’t they go to AA in this enrollment count and have the competition factor put them in 3A or go to 3A and the completion rule will put them in 4A. This is a new cycle so they can choose where to play first and then allow the completion factor to bump them into the class they want to be in. I agree this is no reason they should have to play in 5A. They’re A enrollment option already to play up 2 classes and the completion factor put them into 4A. Just my thought.

  114. Wpialguy says:

    Aliquippa controversy is gaining political steam. State representative is pushing hard and congressman Conor lamb who is running for senate has also written a letter to the PIAA. We will see if they budge.

  115. Kevin X says:

  116. Brian says:

    I can almost sat with certainty that southern will not be moving up to 3A. This is just like it was a few years ago when they graduated so many seniors. The 2015 team and the 2019 team. The problem with piaa and the transfer rule is that according to piaa any player who was not on the previous roster count is considered a transfer and the school has to petition them to show that they were in 8th grade the previous year. Once those students are removed then the numbers will be under the transfer amount. This happens with all school but most schools don’t care because they don’t hit the success points so there’s no reason to petition. Here are 2 examples of how an athlete is looked as a transfer but really isn’t. They’re in 8th grade and will move up to 9th and now are added to the varsity team or they’re a 10th, 11th, 12 grader who didn’t play the previous year. They’re also considered transfers but really aren’t. Schools who reach success points and are told they’re over the transfer will in most cases petition knowing that piaa does this. they don’t really reach the transfer limit.

  117. mark dodgson says:

    congratulation to Old Forge HS the 2022 district 2 class A champion as they are the only class A school left in the district so if they go 0-10 their still in the playoffs ? going to be interesting. Also SCA is appealing going up in class. Really think someone need to look at High School football in PA every year it seems to get more screwed up !!!

  118. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh loses Matt Frame, Smoyer, and Amorim. But they have Ramos returning at RB (shared time with frame) Jimenez at FB, and Nick Frame who played WR this year and backup QB ( I assume he will be the guy at QB next year). He had a WR pass for a TD against North Schuylkill and West Catholic last year.

  119. D11 Matt says:

    Just saw some of the D11 classifications. Watch Northern Lehigh in A in 2022. (I’m shocked they are down to A with only 116 males)( as an alum from about 15 years ago we had 300 males in the HS). But in D11 there are only 6 A teams and Northern Lehigh returns all lineman, TE and 4 skill players for a total of 17/22 starting positions. They will be a top 5 eastern A team. Up there with Old Forge, Steelton High. Playing in eastern AA finals will help this returning lineman.

  120. Wpialguy says:

    Read red bank valley will be appealing their bump up ruling. They said PIAA said they had 10 transfers, but claims they only had one. See no reason red bank valley should be forced up a class after two good seasons.

  121. Foleman says:

    Here’s the list of teams moving up due to the competition formula, Wyomissing will now have to battle it out with McDevitt in District 3 4a-Tough task! TEP and Wood will go at it in 5a in the East, Aliquippa in 5A West. S. Columbia to 3A which will make it more difficult to win a State Championship, same with Central Valley moving to 4a
    Redbank Valley (1A -> 2A)
    Bishop Guilfoyle (1A -> 2A)
    Southern Columbia (2A -> 3A)
    Central Valley (3A -> 4A)
    Wyomissing (3A -> 4A)
    Aliquippa (4A -> 5A)
    Jersey Shore (4A -> 5A)
    Cathedral Prep (5A -> 6A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Farrell (2A)
    Imhotep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A -> 5A)

  122. Wpialguy says:

    So Woodland Hills numbers put them in 3a, however, they have stated that they will continue to play in 5a as they want to continue their tradition and rivalries. Although I’m not sure why as I think they would dominate 3a and win wpial. But kudos to them for challenging their kids.

    Also Belle Vernon has moved from 4A to 3a and will replace Central Valley as the favorite in that class in my opinion.

    4A is absolutely loaded with Central Valley, North Catholic, Thomas Jefferson and McKeesport.

    5a is also loaded. Don’t know if Aliquippa can keep up and dominate but they have shocked me before. They will be playing against teams with flat screen tvs analyzing film on the sidelines running college type offenses. Depending on the conference, it will be pretty funny seeing some of these wealthy 5a schools have to travel to aliquippa to play a section game. I think aliquippa will make playoffs, but it will be quite a story if they can keep winning at the rate they do.

    Aliquippa controversy is gaining political momentum as well. Local state representative has written a letter to PIAA and the beaver county NAACP has also written a letter to the PIAA. Don’t know if PIAA will fold from the pressure but there is a full court press on them.

  123. Kevin X says:

    You guys can digest the new classification numbers (and those caught up in the success formula spider web) for the next two years, and start firing up those comments once again……..

    BTW, those schools who are looking to voluntarily play up, they have until tomorrow to make that known.

  124. Wpialguy says:

    New class reports are out. Wpial 5 6A schools. 29 1A schools. Time to merge man. I know it’s hard because of community identity but it’s a huge waste of taxpayer dollars having that many small schools.

  125. Tornado Fan says:

    @Brian agree, I think Mt. Carmel was one of the top 5 teams in AA the past few years but are not ranked high because we didn’t make it out of districts. ’18, ’19 and ’21 MCA was 10-3 with 2 of the losses coming against Southern (one regular season, one in Dist. championship). Southern was on a streak for 4 years with the ridiculous team that graduated in 2020 and blew everyone out so bad it was almost impossible to tell how good anyone else in AA was. I hoped MCA would be more competitive this year but G. Garcia was the difference. Up until the early ’10s, the MCA/SCA games were always pretty competitive. I am not one of those fans hoping Southern moves up just so MCA can get out of districts. If you wanna be the best you have to beat the best. 20-30 years ago, MCA and Berwick were best in the area, now Southern is the team to beat. Most of the D4 AAA teams MCA and Southern play during the regular season were AA in the previous 4 classification system so I don’t think there is much difference there anyway. MCA beat the AAA district champ Danville by 2TDs this year during the regular season. Southern is always good, but I think with Garcia gone and MCA having some good young talent coming up, the games and D4 AA will be more competitive again the next few years. Or maybe thats just wishful thinking, we’ll see.

  126. Health Care says:

    Thanks a lot, I suppose we ’re at contrary ends on the diapason with these academy quarter each- star brigades. Some you guys and your glories and crowns, again, i suppose I ’m in the nonage being a Friday night in, Friday night out addict, find a good game and enjoy the evening, and if your platoon claims palm in Hershey, its a nice perk and icing on the cutlet of a really good season. The only way I ’d be in favor of what you’re proposing is if there’s a real low number of guys coming out to play and you need a hutch situation. Ever I do n’t suppose that would be an issue with a 5A or 6A academy.

  127. Man of press says:

    I do recall something about Central Valley moving up based on enrollment

  128. Brian says:

    Kevin X, funny you say that because I was asking the same question regarding Mt. Carmel. They are in the same district as Southern and haven’t been able to come even remotely close to beating them in districts in recent years. I mentioned that it would be easier for Mt. Carmel to move up to AAA and win a district title there. They probably would’ve won the AAA district 4 title this year and many years they may be one of the top AA schools but can never prove it against the other teams in the state because of being in the same diarist as southern. I think they would’ve would’ve been able to win a state playoff game or 2 in AAA.

  129. Wpialguy says:

    Once the new classes come out, I will try to analyze and post a synopsis if I’m not too busy

  130. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x, South Fayette and Mars have been schools that have tripled their populations. Peters TWP is also steadily growing. South Fayette is now one of the bigger schools in the wpial in the middle of 5a. 10 years ago they were in the old 2a. The population growth in Pittsburgh is heavily in the suburbs. The old steel town areas are where you see population going down. In mike white’s sports chat today, he mentioned that as of now he only sees 5 wpial schools in 6A. That could be corrected if a few of these smaller schools are absorbed by their larger neighbors. North Catholic has also gone from a 1a school to a school that will go to 4A after they closed their north side school and built a new school in the suburbs north of Pittsburgh; which is why I think a school such as Pine Richland, which is near North Catholic has gone from 6 to 5a even though it’s a really good district. There are also different charter schools popping up each year which is why schools near the city are dropping population. Most of these charters do not offer football though. One difference between western and eastern pa is that in the east there are very few schools in 1a and 2a. Out here in the west, those schools make up most of the classes in PIAA.

  131. mark dodgson says:

    ok i confused about this transfers rule if you have 3 transfer pulse the success to earn the 6 point you move up a class correct ? now if a Catholic school or a charter has let say 10 players come in to the freshman class who look like they will be ball players do they count as transfers ? if the star qb from valley view his jr year family moves to Dunmore is that a transfer>? it seem to me schools who are up front are getting screwed ! or an i missing something

  132. Kevin X says:

    One more thing, for those of you who are tired of hearing about Southern Columbia hiding out in 2A (assuming that they will stay there for the next 2 years), and especially you 2A schools, here is a thought, take a page out of District 10’s playbook from a few years ago (when all of the 4A schools played up to 5A to avoid ECP), and volunteer to play up to 3A. Make a statement. Shake things up. I think it would be absolutely hilarious to see every 2A school statewide voluntarily playing up to 3A. Never happen, but fun to visualize.

  133. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Yes, I do recall something about Central Valley moving up based on enrollment. They seem like an outlier out there in the west, going up in enrollment as opposed to decreasing enrollment. Interesting seeing all these schools possibly moving down in classification, Garnet, Del Val, Scranton, etc. the two former I find odd as I thought they were in either growing, or at least stable population areas. Anybody other than CV moving up via enrollment figs only?? Speaking of, I believe it was wpialguy who mentioned (with an article) the screw up in schools counting vo-tech and/or other other enrollment numbers, and the PIAA asked for re-submissions and extended reporting deadlines. Well, here are the new and updated enrollment parameters for football:

    The NEW PIAA parameters had significant changes in the football ranges:
    1A was 138 and below, now 123 and below
    2A was 139-207, now 124-180
    3A was 208-280, now 181-262
    4A was 281-402, now 263-382
    5A was 403-585, now 383-557
    6A was 586 and above, now 558 and above

    Wonder if this affects Central Valley or anyone else who previously referenced moving down (or up).

  134. Kevin X says:

    @ PB

    Thnx for the response, I suppose we’re at opposite ends on the spectrum with these school district all-star teams. Some you guys and your trophies and championships, again, i suppose I’m in the minority being a Friday night in, Friday night out fan, find a good game and enjoy the evening, and if your team claims victory in Hershey, its a nice bonus and icing on the cake of a really good season. The only way I’d be in favor of what you are proposing is if there is a real low number of guys coming out to play and you need a co-op situation. Somehow I don’t think that would be an issue with a 5A or 6A school.

  135. Wpialguy says:

    Wpial success in 3a is mostly due to beaver county schools. Aliquippa, Central Valley, beaver falls, and Quaker valley which is right over the border. Old steel towns that don’t have the population they once did but still have a good football culture entrenched. In my opinion there needs to be school mergers within beaver county. It that’s an argument for another day

  136. D3 Mike says:

    Just wanted to point out that the WPIAL winner has won 5 of the 6 state titles in the new 3A… and if you extend that run to include the old 2A, the WPIAL winner has made it to Hershey 10 straight years in that class and won 7 of the last 9 state titles, with those state titles coming from 5 different programs. It follows that the WPIAL favorite will probably be the favorite to win the state title in that class, again. The WPIAL has great 3A public programs and many of the 3A Catholic schools in the East have been playing up in 4A. No non-boundary school has even appeared in the final in that class since Lancaster Catholic way back in 2011. That’s a good combination for another WPIAL title in 3A from Woodland Hills — or from whomever else manages to come out of the Pittsburgh area in 2022.

    A separate point that I haven’t seen discussed in the forum recently: next year Berks County (which includes Wilson, which is already in the league, plus Governor Mifflin, Exeter, Berks Catholic, Wyomissing, etc.) will be joining the Lancaster-Lebanon League. The league will now have 38 teams, mostly in 4A, 5A & 6A. Hopefully that improves the overall quality of league play in the area. Section 4 will be especially competitive, with Cocalico, Lampeter-Strasburg, Berks Catholic, and Wyomissing all having appeared in the state semifinals and/or state finals since 2017.

  137. Wpialguy says:

    @jeff h. I agree that Woodland Hills coaching staff is not great, but they have competed with the best in 5a despite their coaching. I think if they drop to 3a they will just dominate. Maybe not state champ favorite but I can see them being the wpial favorite. Can also seeing them play up to 4A because frankly a Woodland Hills- derry section game doesn’t exactly seem like it will go well for one party. I think the team to watch next year is Penn hills. Wpial semi finalist and they return almost their whole team. They were playing sophomores all over the field.

    My wpial sleeper next year is Seneca Valley

  138. Brian says:

    Jeff H… Julian Fleming is on Ohio st and has seen the field every game. He doesn’t start because of olave. He was injured for a few games and didn’t play but over the last few weeks he’s been returning kicks and getting on the field. He scored his first career td against Michigan st. There was a cool picture of him scoring the td with his high school teammate cal Haladay on the field for Michigan st. Cal was named a freshmen all American. Fleming will get his time to shine when olave graduates and he will only be a sophomore.

  139. Buddy says:


    Never said lower classes couldn’t beat 6A. Governor Mifflin would have beat North Penn, hell, so would Southern Columbia!

    NP last Hershey trip was 2011. However, they been in the playoffs 21 out of the last 22 years. They been in the

    eastern final (state semi-final) more than any other public school. You don’t have to go to the big dance every

    year to be successful team. Give NP no boundaries, then see how often they are in the state finals.

  140. D11 Matt says:

    @Jeff…. Fleming is the starting punt returner and plays snaps here and there at WR. He was behind 3 very good wrs. Hopefully next year he will get playing time at WR. He had four catches last year in big ten championship when they had injuries to some WRS. He still had three years of eligibility due to last year being given back by NCAA due to covid. So he has three years left of eligibility. Maybe he transfers if he doesn’t get into starting lineup next year? He also didn’t red shirt so has that also.

  141. Jeff H. says:

    @Buddy – since District 12 joined the PIAA in 2008 non-boundary schools are 8-6 against publics in 6A/4A, with public schools winning 2 of the last 5, in 5A/3A the non-boundary schools are 9-5 against the publics, although the publics have won 3 of the last 4,.and it would have likely been 4 in a row had Derrick Davis been able to play for Gateway against Wood in the semi-finals 2 years ago. As I and others have stated despite it’s flaws the success rule is having some positive impacts in helping to level the playing field a little bit, that’s one reason the publics have won 3 of the last 4 in 5A, and also a reason the games were so competitive last weekend, those championship games as a whole were the best we’ve seen in a long time in this state.

    @D3Mike – did a little research and you are correct, Singleton is the first Gatorade player of the year from PA since Ron Powlus in 1993. Speaking of Julian Fleming, is he still on the roster with Ohio State? They have a lot of great receivers but I have not seen him play a down in any of the Ohio State games I’ve watched so I’m wondering if he is still on the team? They are also loaded at QB so it will be interesting to see whether Kyle McCord transfers to another school like Phil Jurkovec did in transferring from Notre Dame to BC.

  142. Jeff H. says:

    @Wpialguy – I hate to disagree with you about Woodland Hills since I live in the district and my both of my kids graduated from the school, but they are not going to be a state championship favorite in any class with their current coaching staff, by all accounts good men, but very mediocre football coaches, their record is very poor since Coach Novak retired after the 2016 season, and the school board has bigger issues to deal with than the declining football program. I totally agree with you about 5A, there will be different winners every year, just like there has been the last 4 years with Penn Hills, Gateway, PR and now Penn Trafford. If Aliquippa is forced to 5A which it appears they will be I make them the favorite next year with all the talent they have coming back.

    @Kevin X – I think it may have been mentioned on here already but Central Valley is moving to 4a next year due to enrollment so the success rule does not come into play for them.

    @JC – you should check your facts before you make stupid comments about Aliquippa, they have won 2 state titles in the last 4 years, or did you miss that title in 2018. They have also made the WPIAL final an amazing 14 years in a row all while playing up in class every year, which no other school in the WPIAL has come close to accomplishing, and you say they are an also ran? They lost in the WPIAL 4A final in OT to TJ last year, had they won that game they would be the two time defending 4A state champion, not too shabby for a school with 1A enrollment. There is no doubt in my mind if Aliquippa played 1A where their enrollment is they would win the state title almost every year, or at the very least 4 out of every 5 years. Fact is Aliquippa is one of the most storied programs in the history of high school football in PA, look how many of their players have made the NFL and are in the Hall of Fame. Aliquippa should be admired for playing up, not disrespected because of it, and football in this state would be better overall if some other schools followed their example.

    @D3Mike & Wilson4ever – totally agree with you guys about Nick SIngleton, he is a tremendous talent and it boggles the mind that he had 1 carry in the 2nd half against Exeter. I still think GM was the best team in 5A, had they beaten Exeter I think they would have likely beaten both Penn Trafford and Imhotep, but unfortunately we’ll never know. As we’ve all seen in the playoffs coaching can make a huge difference at the high school level

  143. jc says:

    It should be called the cheating and winning rule. Southern will not have to move up because they have won but have not had the transfers come in. Aliquippa has, thus the cheating and winning rule applies.

  144. irish1 says:

    @buddy, there are plenty of 3a,4a,and 5a teams that can and do whip up on “those big boys” in 6a every year across the state. Those North Penn ‘big boys” havent visited Hershey in quite sometime. They dont have to worry about those catholic schools you a such a problem with cause they have enough of a problem getting past the other “publics” in District one.

  145. wpialguy says:

    If woodland hills drops to 3a, I think they immediately become the state championship favorite in that class.

  146. wpialguy says:

    SO, it seems to me that a lot of schools are dropping to 5a, from 6a. So where are the 6a schools? Wpial 5a will be extremely competitive. One program will not dominate that class and I think you could see a different team winning for the next couple years.

  147. Brian says:

    D3 Mike, I believe Southerns Julian Fleming was named Gatorade player of the year 2 years in a row but I could be mistaken. Maybe he was just a nominee for it.

  148. mark dodgson says:

    talking about numbers for 2022 it my understanding that Scranton and Delaware Valley are both going to 5A that will change that class big time in the northeast

  149. phillyboy says:

    @ Kevin X

    Yes my man, I’m serious about what I said — that large school districts should streamline and condense to have one football team, 100 emoji. Right off the bat though, it would never happen, there’s way too much complacency and inertia, these gyno administrators and school boards would have a hissy fit. (Allow me to digress for a moment, tbh that’s where I can appreciate the privates, they’re not constrained by group think idiocy, rather they see what the situation is and act accordingly, with free will are able to make deliberate, specific decisions to bring about a desired result, pretty nifty how that works.) But hypothetically speaking, if a school district like Central Bucks had one team, are you kidding me?! I’m smh in a good way. It stands to reason that the quality and strength of the team would improve as the best players would come together into the same starting lineup. Hey Bethlehem, you hear me clucking big chicken? If Liberty and Freedom combined, got to believe the D11/D12 state quarterfinal might finally have some intrigue. Heck, phillyboy might even start attending those quarterfinal games again. No, check that, not with the new ticket purchasing protocols in place, complete and utter BS — but that’s a whole other topic of discussion. Now there’s another possibility that’s more realistic: have open enrollment within these larger school districts that have multiple teams, becoming in effect a microcosm of the Philadelphia school district. That way the best players can all go to the same team a la Imhotep. Unofficially one team within the school district would be the de facto ‘A’ team.

  150. Buddy says:

    I follow the big boys ’cause my team is one of the big boys, whether they’re good or bad. Don’t follow the CFL cause my

    team is in the NFL., don’t follow junior high wrestling cause my team is NCAA D1 wrestling. Having a hard time wrapping

    that around your head, eh?

  151. Paul from Philly says:


    My bad. I thought you were saying that the PCL was ONLY represented in the 5A and 6A. So what you’re saying is…..and let me get this straight……you only follow the big boys but if they’re no good you could care less about them. You don’t want to waste your time with draigs. Narrow minded?? Buddy, did you ever play the game??

  152. Kevin X says:

    Here are your 2022/23 – 2023/24 nominees (based only on my unofficial calculations) for promotion (sorry, can’t use the word “penalized”) to the next higher classification of competition by virtue of obtaining 6 or more “success points” during this past two year cycle:

    A: Bishop Guilfoyle and Redbank Valley
    2A: Southern Columbia
    3A: Central Valley and Wyomissing
    4A: Jersey Shore and Aliquippa
    5A: Erie Cathedral Prep

    Of course this is only half of the equation, as you still need to have 3 or more athletic transfers during the same time period to be promoted. I have no clue who has what in terms of transfers. Fairly strong and consistent rumors that I have seen are that Guilfoyle, Aliquippa and ECP are in that 3+ transfer boat. Then there are the inevitable appeals, and who knows……even lawsuits???

  153. Buddy says:

    @ paul:

    Hmmm. Trying to think how many times Bonner, Carroll & O’Hara have been to the states. Somewhere in there must be

    Ryan, Lansdale catholic, Devon prep and Conwell Egan, just can’t seem to pin-point when. Give me the 5A & 6A private

    schools that been in the finals in the last 15 years, instead of grabbing at straws on schools that never make it.

    BTW, what lives in my head is what happened to SJP this year. Looking forward to that again.

  154. jc says:

    I love how every year the same people use the same school as evidence that southern Columbia should move up in class. Aliquippa, aliquippa is all you here every year. And you base this on aliquippa moving up for more competition. You never talk about the fact that aliquippa rarely wins championships anymore and that quite a few state titles were taken away because they thought it was more important to perceive yourself as better than what they r. You never take away championships for hs kids and that’s what aliquippa did. Sure they won a state title this year, but that’s not a given. So it’s better to take winning and championships away and it’s better to prove yourself as an also ran? I don’t get it.

  155. D3 Mike says:

    Congrats to Gatorade National Football Player of the Year, Nick Singleton of Governor Mifflin! I think this is PA’s first winner since Ron Paulus?

    Pepperidge Farms remembers… just two years ago, when multiple people in this forum said that this kid was “overrated”, and that his rushing yards were “empty” as they came against “the Little Sisters of the Poor” in the Berks League. Look at him now.

    Shame that the GM coach only gave him the ball once in the second half versus Exeter. Would have loved to have seen him go up against PT’s and Imhotep’s great front-7s.

    Wishing him best of luck at Penn State. The program needs all the help it can get.

  156. Paul from philly says:


    Sorry McDevitt is gone. My bad. But I’ll raise you Lansdale Catholic, Devon Prep and Conwell-Egan. My gosh, you really don’t know what you’re talking about do you? Or you’re just blinded by the notion of the PCL.

  157. Paul from philly says:


    Geez I forgot about Ryan and McDevitt too. There ain’t as many as there were but just enough to get in your head. Have a great Holiday thinking about next year’s St. Joe team!!

  158. Paul from philly says:


    Well let’s see: West Catholic, Bonner, Carroll, O’Hara, those are just a few who are not in 5 or 6. You should know what you’re talking about.

    Only care about 6A. Who narrow minded?? St. Joe lives in your head rent free!! Enjoy!!!

  159. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy, I agree that SJP was (probably) the more talented team, but the difference in experience was evident, e.g. the Prep getting signals crossed on a couple of kickoff returns and their QB trying to do a bit too much at times, e.g. trying to force the ball on at least one of the interceptions.. There were also a couple of bad coaching decisions at the end of the half when they were inside the ten, going for a field goal when the ball was on the hash mark being one of them. That’s a super difficult kick to make, especially in a strong wind. Credit, though, to ML for making a couple of tough stops on the previous plays.

    The first quarter fumble was obviously huge, but there was another possibly game deciding play a few minutes into the fourth quarter. After the Agard interception the Prep, down 21-17, ran a passing play where Washington was wide open at about the SJP 40, but the ball was very underthrown. It’s the kind of pass Jones was making in the first half, and as we saw how Washington can run with the ball after a catch. But because the play didn’t work the Prep had to punt from fairly deep in their territory which is where the whole rest of the game was played. Of course, this is from a Prep perspective.

    As for 2003 I remember both North Penn and SJP fans saying their team would have beat the other team. All seemed to want a game between the two to prove it.

    My guess, after watching the Prep play both GV and ML, is that a ML-GV game would have been over pretty early. And if SJP’s season had ended after the second LaSalle game, there would have been something like the 2003 talk about the “what ifs”? No?

  160. Buddy says:


    I thought Wood was 5A. My bad. So GV is that small they qualify for 5A?

    That’s a shame. They’re a powerhouse at 6A. SJP probably chased them.

  161. Buddy says:

    Yo Paul:

    You said public won 18 and privates 6. But the privates don’t have schools in the lower classes! Privates are essentially

    5A & 6a. So give me a stat on those classes the last 15 years. Mull that over in your narrow little mind!

  162. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Buddy

    So you choose to follow only the BIG BOYS. That is your choice. But in the grand scheme of things you can’t just throw out the rest of the results because you don’t like them, you don’t care or you just like to argue. You can’t see the forrest for the trees. “I follow 6A only!” Snob!! And there are no sour grapes on this end. St. Joe and the rest of the PCL aint going anywhere. Have fun with that thought!!

  163. Ryan says:

    Wood, Roman, Garnet Valley going to 5A

  164. Buddy says:


    Frankly (bad pun), i think SJP is a more talented team then Mt. Lebo. The breaks went Mt. Lebo’s way.

    Even more so with Tep and PT. Tep is definitely the better team, PT got the breaks. If garnet Valley had beat Prep,

    yes, Mt. Lebo would have been just as satisfied. I think your point is if the privates weren’t in the PIAA playoffs,

    would the publics be satisfied winning the final? Well, we wouldn’t know the difference. Just like before 2008,

    we didn’t really know how good the privates were. North Penn won the states in 2003 (destroyed PCC), Wound up ranked 8th in the

    country. Same year, SJP was ranked 3rd in the country. The SJP fanatics on this site said SJP would have beat NP by 3 TD’s.

    Maybe they would have or maybe not (wouldn’t have won by 3 TD’s tho). But we didn’t know. So yes, we were satisfied.

  165. Wilson4Ever says:

    ONE LAST THING!!! Is it just me or does the State Championship Trophies look rather dull and not very exciting to look at the last few years. They just look like a hunk of wood with some writing on it? They used to look great before with a Golden Football and a map of the State of Pennsylvania on a nice wooden base. It’s supposed to represent WE ARE THE VERY BEST!!! These trophies should be BOLD, BRIGHT, and SHOWY representing the blood, sweat, and tears to took to claim this very difficult prize. I don’t know who changed them and for what reason but IMO they don’t POP OUT AT YOU and look very uninspiring to me.I don’t know if this was a cost cutting thing to save money for the PIAA but that should never be the case because all these young men and their communities deserve something very special that they can look at and treasure in their high school trophy cases forever. Because if some high schools ever win a state championship it might be the last one they ever get. But if they ever get more they are all supposed to represent a very special moment in time. Maybe it’s just me but let me know how others feel about this. They should always look extremely special and never cheap IMO.

  166. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) BTW Jeff H I did agree with you on last year’s Governor Mifflin-Pine-Richland game and I’m not really trying to flip flop hear. The point I’m trying to make is that I just thought the blown call that lead to a touchdown against GM just made it a little easier for PR to win but I have no doubt the main reason they beat Mifflin last year was because PR’s coaches made the better critical adjustments through out the game and the Governor Mifflin staff didn’t. Like you said in high school football a lot of times teams with lesser talent beat better teams because of better coaching. A huge case in point this year was when one of the biggest upsets in District III history happened when Exeter Twp. beat Governor Mifflin the heavy favorite to win this year’s 5A State Title. I think that came down to a coaching breakdown for GM. I hate to say it but I feel that should have never happened.

  167. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) I also think that Governor Mifflin lost this year’s 5A District III championship game in a huge upset to Exeter Twp.because they were out coached and that was a terrible thing for GM because that should have never happened because I feel they had a hell of a lot more talent than Exeter Twp. especially with having Nick Singleton the #1 running back in the country on their team who is a beast. From what I heard there is quite a few outraged Governor Mifflin fans who would agree with me. Governor Mifflin was loaded this year and probably could have even beaten most of the 6A teams in the state except for the two in the 6A Final IMO and were even better than last year’s 2020 team that lost that close game to that powerful Pine-Richland team.

  168. Wpialguy says:

    Over on this side of the state, i am just wondering when some of these smaller schools will be forced into mergers. Economically irresponsible to have as many small schools as we do. Keeps taxes high and resources low. But the same pride that allows these public schools to win and band together is also the pride that does not want consolidation. Some of these single a schools need saved, and the kids deserve more. Part of why wpial individual talent is down is in these smaller schools the kids do not have to compete against anyone within their own school for spots.

    In beaver county, you could merge half the schools and most would still be within the 3,4,5A range. Biggest school in the county is one of the smallest schools in 4A.

  169. Ryan says:

    Garnet Valley is going down to 5A

  170. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) Oh BTW I honestly do agree with you Jeff H 100% about last year’s Governor Mifflin-PineRichland 5A Semi-Final game and I’m not trying to flip flop here. What I mean is even though I didn’t mention it I also feel very strongly that better coaching can win many important high school games even if a team might have less talent. But the exact point that I was trying to make was that I thought that blown call against Governor Mifflin made it a little easier for Pine-Richland to beat GM but I have no doubt that the PR coaching staff made better adjustments the entire game and agree with you that it was probably the main reason they won.

  171. FrankG says:

    @Buddy Do you think the Mount Lebanon players would have preferred playing Garnett Valley on Saturday? Do you think victory would have been as satisfying? And do you think the game would have been as good?

  172. Kevin X says:


    For the love of God, please tell me you’re joking. I toss out my fair of sarcasm on this board, maybe it’s a case of I can dish it out, but I am clueless when I see it. I enjoy your posts, but man, if you are serious, you went completely off the reservation with this one. Combine teams within a school district that have multiple schools all in the name to win precious championship for District One?? Have you ever been to a Downingtown West/East game before?? If not, I suggest you put it on your HS football bucket list. There is more atmosphere at that game year in year out than the six games played this weekend in Hershey combined. I can rant on forever with your post in so many different directions, but I’ll leave it where it is.

  173. Buddy says:

    Yo Paul:

    I follow 6A only. Prep won 3 out of the last 4 finals. Big school publics still don’t have parity!

    Go back to eating your sour grapes!

  174. d4dude says:

    @Jeff H
    If you watched the game you would of realized southern didn’t “go for 2”. It was a bobbled snap that turned into a 2 pt conversion.
    How do you teach kids to “take plays off”. I’m assuming your team didn’t make it far by your mentality on things. And no one cares if you respect them or not.

  175. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff & Thomas, I’ll put this into perspective, because it’s something I didn’t realize until recently… I always thought boundary vs. non-boundary was an issue throughout the state. While it is to some degree, it’s much more acute in the SE. According to 247 (eye roll) 19 of the top 47 seniors in the state are from D1 or D12, which is statistically in the ballpark for what is should be. However, only three of those 19 play for public non-charter schools (two in D1 and one in D12). The talent is there, but it’s very concentrated and it’s not at District One schools.

  176. Paul from Philly says:

    Play the game!! Just like Mt. Lebanon did. Instead all we get are Johnny’s daddys complaining how life aint fair!! Good thing Lebo didn’t listen.

  177. Paul from Philly says:

    @Buddy. Parity between the pubs and privates?? The pubs have won 18 chapionships to the Privates 6. Parity is supposed to be 50-50. “Oh they’re too big, too strong, too D1 for us.” You guys are a bunch of cry babies when it comes to this subject.

  178. phillyboy says:

    Some of you guys have been diplomatic in hinting or implying that District 1 has been coming up small. As a long time resident of SE PA I can be a little more blunt. In the past I’ve desribed District 1 as “a malaise of mediocrity”. After further review I feel compelled to downgrade it to ‘pure dreck’. I’ll give a little consideration or credit to North Penn and Coatesville, but that’s about it, they have a little bit of fight in them. By and large, though, District 1 football is the epitome of ‘going through the motions’ and yes, mediocrity. In fact Salieri from the movie Amadeus is their patron saint, lol. Outside of getting a sudden dose of heart, what can D1 do? There is something very practical that some large, suburban school districts can do right away. A commenter recently parroted an idea that phillyboy himself mentioned a while back — delete redundant teams within the same school district. For example, Central Bucks could have 1 team instead of 3, Downingtown could have a unified team once again hearkening back to their dominant 90’s teams. Or how about Central Dauphin with a single team? If necessary they could rename the HS to original name albeit with E and W campus, or whatever. Conversely, could you imagine if North Penn had succeeded in splitting into two several years ago? A North Penn East and a North Penn West would be a joke, so watered down. As far as less kids getting a chance to play, I say tough bananas, beat it, join the French Club or something. Football already has 22 positions plus special teams whereas basketball only has 5 positions.

  179. Matt says:

    Major congrats to Mt. Lebo. Huge victory and excellent performance to cap an amazing season. As always, Prep will be back next year. Really have to hand it to Mt. Lebo though, what an excellent team.

  180. Kevin X says:

    Total attendance for Hershey: 19,822 Breakdown:
    2563 for 1A
    4306 for 4A
    3174 at 2A
    2679 for 5A
    3405 for 3A
    3965 for 6A

    3,304 average per game.

    I do not know if those number represent tickets sold or actual people thru the turnstiles and physically at the game(s) (or some other form of calculations).

  181. Kevin X says:

    @ TF

    As a follow-on observation, if Imhotep did play last year, hypothetically, and probably probability wise, ECP and Imhotep would have meet in last year’s 5A quarter final like they did this year. Who knows who would have won that game, but If Imhotep won that game, ECP would not have accumulated the 6 or more success points this recent cycle to qualify to be bumped up to 6A. What is also interesting in their case from last year, they only played in one playoff game (two Covid FFWs) to advance to the championship game to get those 4 points that you get slapped with in playing in that game. And to add insult to injury, they proceeded to get smoked by Pine-Richland in that game.

  182. D3 MIke says:

    Jeff makes good points about both the tradition of Heinz Field and the fact that high school football receives exponentially more coverage on the TV, radio, and newspapers in the WPIAL. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh doesn’t have an NBA basketball team and has nothing like the Big 5 in college basketball. That area (Pittsburgh) shares similarities in those regards to the coal region of northern PA. When those facts get coupled with the specialization of sports due to increased competition for scholarships, you have to wonder if that doesn’t translate to a higher percentage of athletes in those areas playing football than they do in other parts of the states. I remember when it was a given to go from football to basketball to baseball if you were a decent athlete, but that’s less and less the case these days. Kids have to make more choices and I wonder if more players in the greater Philadelphia area, for example, don’t choose to specialize in basketball. It’s mind-boggling to me that Reading High can win 2 of the last 6A state titles in basketball but can’t get any of those athletes on the football field to run a spread offense, but that’s today’s world.

    One thing overlooked amidst the discussions about the WPIAL winning 4 titles and the public schools performing better this year is the competitiveness of the state final games. Thomas makes a good point about the success factor seeming to make an impact in terms of public programs performing better in recent years. The games were also much closer this year than in years past. This was the first year where 5 of the state title games were within a touchdown in the 4th quarter. I think the success factor played a part in that, and hopefully it continues.

    Last thing, not sure if it was mentioned and I didn’t watch the game, but from what I read on Twitter, SCA was kneeling the ball up 30 with 2 minutes left and Serra was using their timeouts to stop the clock. That’s when SCA stopped kneeling, ran the ball, and scored their 70-yard TD. In that scenario, I don’t have a problem with SCA running a play. If it were me, I probably would have still kneeled it but I at least understand why they ran a play. I do take issue with them going for the 2-point conversion, though.

  183. Thomas Foley says:

    The success factor, which was implemented in 2018 is having an impact. Publics have won 18 championships to the privates 6 10-2 the last 2 years 4 of the private wins during that timespan came from Prep-(3) and Wood-(1) what’s interesting is that if TEP played last year and McDevitt didn’t get screwed out of the playoffs last year due to points both programs would have been placed in the next highest classification next year. TEP to 6A McDevitt to 5A. Next year with Wood moving down to 5A, you have Wood and TEP going head to head in the East. Erie Cathedral Prep is moving up to 6a, in the past ECP could have played with St. Joe Prep, however, Erie’s population isn’t what it used to be and they have no chance of winning a State Championship at that level. St. Joe Prep is in the highest classification so the success factor has no impact on them. The elephant in the room is District 1, their is no reason, with all of those large schools in the district that they can’t produce a Penn Trafford or Mt. Lebanon type team every once in a while.

  184. Buddy says:

    Well, it was a very good year. My team didn’t go as far in the playoffs as I was hoping (and thought), but that’s ok.

    The publics showed there is a little bit , not much, parity in high school football. Probably won’t happen again for quite some time.

    Temporarily halts the discussion of splitting the privates and publics, not sure if that’s good or bad.

    So, I’ll babble at you guys’ next year.

  185. Jeff H says:

    @Brian – my mentality is what’s wrong with sports and life? You have it exactly backwards, I don’t think SC should voluntarily move up to give other schools a chance, I’m not one for participation trophies, the reason they should move up is to challenge their kids, and because it’s the right thing to do. Many schools voluntarily play up, most notably Aliquippa, but there are plenty of others, because they want to push their kids and play a higher level of competition. I don’t care if SC wins 10 state titles in a row, they are head and shoulders above every other program in 2A and prove absolutely nothing winning 2A year after year. Why just continue to coast through 2A when you can play tougher competition, you don’t improve much at anything in life unless you challenge yourself, I frankly think SC is doing their kids a disservice by not playing up in the playoffs, they play up a lot during the regular season, but come playoff time they go back to destroying 2A just so they can say they won another state title.

    As for their game on Friday, when you have a 30 point lead in the last minute you do not run regular plays that result in a 70 yard touchdown run, you show some class and take a knee, or instruct your players to run out of bounds and not go on a 70 yard run, because it’s the right thing to do, I don’t care if if it’s the 2nd string or the ball boy playing, you do not score on a 70 yard touchdown in that situation, period, end of story. I stand by my earlier comments, I lose more respect for SC’s program every year because all they care about is demolishing the competition in 2A, time to man up and play up in the playoffs, because it’s the right thing to do for your kids.

  186. Jeff H says:

    Since D12 joined the PIAA in 2008 in the state playoffs the WPIAL public schools are 7-5 against their powerhouse non-boundary schools, 2-2 vs SJP, 1-0 against LaSalle, 2-0 against Imhotep, and 2-3 against Wood, although if Derrick Davis doesn’t get hurt in the WPIAL championship game against Peters Twp 2 years ago and is able to play the following week Gateway more than likely beats Wood, they lost on a last minute field goal, and with Davis playing they probably win that game. So the question is why can the public schools in the western part of the state compete with and beat the non-boundary D12 powerhouse teams while other districts struggle and often get blown out.

    D3Mike is absolutely correct, part of the reason is the only big school non-boundary in the WPIAL is PCC, as I’ve stated on here before the publics have been competing with PCC for decades, and the traditional powers don’t lose too many players to PCC, its usually kids from schools like Fox Chapel and Norwin and others that don’t have much of a football tradition. All the other Catholic schools in the area are 1A-3A, with North Catholic being the largest, but they aren’t drawing too many kids from the top public programs

    Another part is coaching, I disagree with D3Mike on the coaching aspect, look at the list of coaches who beat the D12 schools, Bill Cherpak at TJ, Eric Pine Richland, and now Bob Palko with Lebo, just phenomenal coaches who built programs from grade school on up. I told my Mt Lebo friends, a few who were at the game last night, that when they hired Palko 3 yrs ago they would win a WPIAL title and compete for a state title within 3 years, because I knew he would change the culture and have the talent to be competitive on the state level.

    D3 Mike also makes a very good point about playing for a “regional title”, the WPIAL encompasses 7-8 counties, and the goal for these programs for years has been to get to Heinz Field for the “regional championship”, and before that it was get to 3 Rivers Stadium, there is an awful lot of pride for these schools just to get to Heinz to compete for the district title. Western Pa takes its high school football very seriously, what other district has all 6 of their championship games on local TV? The Lebo game last night was on KDKA radio, the dominant AM radio station in the area that can be heard in a dozen or more states, I can’t imagine a Philly radio or TV station doing that, hell, the Inquirer doesn’t even cover high school sports anymore.

    There is a different mindset around this part of the state, we know the non-boundary schools have some big advantages, but the top schools around here will take on anyone and try and figure out how to beat them, not make excuses or complain about the system being unfair. Yes Palko made some comments about SJP being an all-star team and drawing kids from multiple states, Bill Cherpak made the same type of comments about Erie Prep several years ago, but both of these guys made these comments to inspire their players it was and create the mindset it was them against the world. TJ lost to ECP 3 straight years from 2015-17, then finally got over the hump and beat them in 2019, I was at that game at North Hills and I can tell you the pride in finally beating ECP was very evident and meant more to the players and the community than if they had just beaten another public school.

    Yes there are flaws with the system, but I think I speak for the vast majority of people in the western part of the state that we in no way want a separate playoff with publics and non-boundary schools, if you want to be considered the best team in PA you have to beat the best, and figure out ways to improve your program to compete on a statewide level, I realize that’s a lot easier said than done for a lot of schools, but it can be done, there’s no reason a school like North Penn, for example, can’t win a 6A title

  187. Wpialguy says:

    What’s being missed in some of these arguments is yes, Philly area has more options as far as Catholic schools and private schools, but the population of the Philly metro area is about 3.5 million more than the population of Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh area only has 7 6A schools. The sheer amount i of schools in the East should, in theory create more chances for them to win.

  188. David Mika says:

    Thank you, D11 Matt! Happy Holidays!

  189. D11 Matt says:


    It was a great season that ended with some great championship games! Most competitive games in Hershey that iv seen in a while. Hopefully that continues next year! Have a Merry Christmas and a great holiday season! Only about 8 months until next season!

    Dave…..thanks for running this site! A great high school football site that is a go to during the season and also in the off season with schedules, historical info, etc!

  190. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff, my bad about saying N-G won a state championship. Looked that up after I posted it and saw I was wrong, unfortunately this format doesn’t allow quick corrections. As for the rest, I should just say “see D3 Mike” because he gets and articulates the issue with privates in D1 & D12. Nowhere else in the state are public schools getting beat by their own kids like they are in SE PA, so if you’re in the other 10 districts it’s easier to say “what’s the problem?” Because this forum tends to focus on championships, it doesn’t even recognize the seven or so Inter-Ac schools who don’t participate in the playoffs but get many of the best athletes in the region.

    Also, I take slight umbrage at the implication the public schools in SE PA don’t work as hard or aren’t coached as well as the rest of the state. There are no doubt some cultural differences regarding what football means to different communities, but 20 years ago SE PA public schools were as competitive as anywhere else in the state. Beyond a handful of programs like Coatesville, who because of its location doesn’t face the same pressure to keep players from being recruited that schools closer in do, that’s no longer true.

    Anyway, enough “airing of grievances” (for now) about things that aren’t gonna change. Congratulations to all the fans of the winners of some great games and upsets, and for the rest of us, the preseason begins today. Wait ‘til next year!

  191. FrankG says:

    @D3 Mike Thanks for your explanation of the difference between the Pittsburgh area and the Philly area. It makes a lot of sense.

    Just a note: it is by no means the case that Catholic schools in the Philly area have recently started “draining” top talent from public schools. You could go back to the great Bishop Egan teams of the 60s, to Bonner (which had John Cappelletti, Heisman winner while at Penn State) in the late 60s. There was Maurice Stovall at Carroll, Kevin Jones at O’Hara, Rich Gannon at SJP, etc. If anything, the shrinking of Catholic schools in the Philly area has meant that public schools get a higher proportion certainly of students and, in many cases, of student-athletes than they did two or three decades ago. Maybe one big difference is that Catholic schools, including SJP, in the last decade or two have started welcoming non-Catholic students–something that was not done for athletic purposes. But it has certainly had an impact on sports.

    One thing not mentioned on this board is race. I’m sure everyone has noticed that a higher proportion of both players and star players are Black. That’s increasingly obvious. At least in the Philly area because the great majority of Blacks are not Catholics, most Black people didn’t consider Catholic schools. Now more of them do–again, mostly for reasons having nothing to do with sports. But it has meant that, for instance, D’Andre Swift (whose family, I’m 98% sure, are not Catholics) considered both LaSalle and SJP before choosing SJP.

  192. Gary Z says:

    They will be bumped up, and still will perform. I don’t know bout ladies on this site… I know the WPIAL is dominant. I know D7 is the biggest. Trust me the programs w Sr. Heavy teams, don’t rebuild, they reload. SCA is what it is. I respect their achievements. But they will do all they can to stay outta 3A

  193. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, we disagree on what the results show. For clarity, there is no Malvern Prep outside of Pittsburgh, let alone anything approximating the Inter-AC. The traditional of Catholic schools around Pittsburgh is also nothing like the tradition in other parts of the state. Of equal importance, the public school tradition of playing for things like regional titles in Pittsburgh is stronger — it goes back generations, whereas in the East it’s always been a county and league based system. As a result, WPIAL public programs tend to keep more of their talent.

    Beaver County has zero Catholic schools. None. And the County sends a public to the state finals each year. Before the last HS closed, that Catholic school had no football pedigree. Do we really think this is a coincidence? Similar situation with SCA, Mt. Carmel, Berwick, and the historic coal region powers.

    The publics that win don’t win because they have better weight programs or coaches. And don’t get me wrong, they all have awesome weight programs, community commitment, family buy-in, a strong work ethic among the players, etc. They do EVERYTHING right. So this is in no way a bitter grapes argument.

    My point is that many of them win state titles, in part, because they keep 95% of their elite players instead of only 80% of their elite players — which is what happens to a lot of other public schools in the East. If you dropped Prep in the middle of Beaver County, you wouldn’t see a 3A state title winner every year because those schools wouldn’t keep all of their players. I’m not saying those programs wouldn’t still be awesome. My argument is that losing 1 or 2 players makes the difference between a win or a loss in Hershey. This weekend’s results highlight how much privates drain talent, where they exist.

  194. Wpialguy says:

    Interestingly 3/4 of the wpial teams that won were completely senior loaded. Trafford, Lebo, and Central Valley will all have difficulty making it back next year so i predict we will have new blood once again. Also Central Valley is moving up to 4A on enrollment alone, so they will have to make it past Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport, and others.

  195. Jc says:

    If the wpial seem to be built better and r quicker then they should forced to be bumped up another class. Every wpial school should be moved up because they have an unfair advantage and they enjoy winning state titles a little to much. Lol losers. Southern Columbia is won a state title easily with 38 kids playing on there football team. Deal with it. I don’t even have anything to do with southern football. I went to north schuylkill and I don’t care about southern Columbia but I love getting on here every year and listen to cry babies whine about southern Columbia. Let me just explain something to you people. If you move teams up based solely on them being good how do you take care of a team like st. Joes prep? They’re already in the highest bracket so all you do is penalize the class a thru 5a schools??? You tell a school that your to good and we don’t want you to win anymore? R these woman who r messaging on this site??? Lol

  196. D11 Matt says:

    About southern playing in class that they are put in….that’s correct. But after five state championships in a row where no playoff or state championship has been within three scores at end, they have the option to challenging themselves and playing up. I respect them and what they have done but they would have had a much more competitive 3A tournament then mercy ruling everyone in the 2A tournament. They would have been a top 5 3A team and would have probably had a rematch with Wyomissing. And that game would have been close. The first one they turned it over five times. Yes…..they play challenging regular season schedules every year but then don’t get challenged at all when titles are on the line. Like they said…..they know they will be in Hershey every year and kind of coast through the playoffs. Even St Joe’s gets challenged every once in a while (2015, 2017, Freedom and LaSalle and in state championship this year).

  197. Gary Z says:

    Your right, Mt. Lebanon is a Very Nice place. They are actually probably the wealthiest school district in WPIAL. If not, very close. That’s a big money area to say the least.

  198. Gary Z says:

    SCA fans I’m not hating, but if ya truly believe your that good. You should walk through 3A. The Quips will be moved to 5A, I know, @Jeff H said it best. It’s ok for the Quips, because they have 3 transfers who never see the field. I hope the Quips win the 5A. I think the would have beat ‘Tep or St. Joes. I honestly do. To big, to athletic and too much speed. Remember the QB is a Soph, the RB is a 14 year old FR. I wanna see em win 5A. C.V. will be bumped up, they won’t appeal it. Heck CV and the Quips play each year in a non conference game. Just think if the Quips played in 1A. It would be so absurd week to week. Much worse than what SCA does to teams each week. You would see at least 4 teams forfeit each year.

  199. Gary Z says:

    Two great posts, completely agree with you.
    Great points. I actually noticed, the WPIAL kids seemed to be built a little better, thicker n more muscular. Also seemed to be way more physical n stronger at the point of attack. Maybe I am being biased and don’t know it, but I certainly feel that way. I know where I coach, and all schools I have been at, have EXCELLENT off season weightlifting programs. Just my observation. Also, I said it before, SCA does not want to compete in State playoffs. They want to win blowout State championships. PIAA move em up to 3A. SCA fans, if they are that good you will have no problems. Prediction here, they get bumped up by PIAA… Roth will retire. I call it now.

  200. Foleman says:

    Great games this weekend with some incredible coaching and some heads scratching decisions. The HC from Central Valley played to win, the TEP Coach played to lose, which they did. When you have a stud running back like McLeod and you can’t think you can get 1 yard with a few minutes left, you deserve to lose. The WPIAL is the king of Pa football, however, the Prep with all their talent will still probably win on average 3 state championships every 5 years, I don’t know what to say about S. Columbia, no doubt the top program in the State, but they skirt the transfer rule by having football players move into the district after 8 grade, they physically looked like a college team playing against a Jr High team, step up SC! Not surprised about Mt. Lebanon beating the Prep, I was in Mt. Lebanon-(Very nice area) last year and I saw several of their lineman walking about down town and I came away thinking, Man, you just don’t see many lineman that look that way up East.

  201. Kevin X says:

    @ Michael D

    Imhotep’s whole team this year could have been made up of transfers and it would still be a moot point for moving up to 6A (or at least forced to by the PIAA). To answer your question, yes, you get 4 points for loosing a state championship game. You get 4 points for winning a state championship game (another PIAA head scratcher there, in essence, you get 4 points for playing in a state championship game, win or loose). They did not play last year (during the fall season), so no playoffs, no points. They only have 4 total success points accumulated over this current 2 year cycle. Team needs 6 or more success points with 3 or more transfers to be bumped up a classification.

  202. Kevin X says:

    Everybody happy this morning??

    Can we finally put this overblown public vs private debate/conversation to bed for good (or at least until late March when it will become a real legit issue).

    And why we’re at it, this 6 classifications talk is too many to rest as well.

  203. Gary Z says:

    @Frank G
    I really don’t care bout it my friend. Point is everyone knows what the score is w University of St. Joe’s! I honestly don’t discuss it cause it’s a waste of time. They have multi state players… they got blown off the field by a WPIAL Public school. Their behavior was not so good at the end of the. Kids didn’t know how to handle adversity n it showed. #WPIAL

  204. Wpialguy says:

    Frank, although they may not have players from Delaware or Maryland, i have no doubts they were using that as motivation all week. Sometimes coaches find ways to motivate their players and i think he was playing that up all week to get them focused and playing with an attitude. Seemed to work!

  205. FrankG says:

    @GaryZ Mount Lebanon played a great game and deserve congratulations. They made plays at key moments in the game.

    Their coach is mistaken, maybe intentionally, if he thinks SJP gets any players from Maryland, and I’m next to certain they have no players from Delaware either. As always, they have many players and many more students from Jersey. You can’t keep a Jesuit secondary school open in the Prep’s location without busses.

  206. Wpialguy says:

    Wow, what a weekend for the WPIAL! 4 titles in the four biggest classes. Individual talent may be down but is it?? These college coaches need to get their butts to this side of the state and offer some of these players. What we saw this weekend is that some teams on this side of the state still have that pride and togetherness that is needed in high school football. And two schools win their first ever state championships! Awesome year of high school football. I can’t wait until next year. I’m already going through predictions in my head. Looking forward to seeing how the new classifications changes things.

  207. mgguy says:

    Congratulations to Mt Lebanon! I am a D3 person but happy to see the Prep go down! 35-17. Public wins!

  208. Gary Z says:

    If you want to read something good, go to the Tribune Review. Palko gives an interview where he talks bout Mt. Lebo being a walking only District. They use NO busses. He goes on to talk bout what they are facing in St. Joe’s having players from NJ, Maryland and Deleware I believe. He was definitely taking a subtle shot, especially if ya know him and his style. Good article. MT.LEBO THE GIANT SLAYERS. Just AWESOME!!!!

  209. Buddy says:


    Why hell yes………………there is most certainly a Santa Claus!

  210. Gary Z says:

    Actually thought Mt. Lebo was more disciplined and better coached. Especially at the end. How bout WPIAL new record of 4 State Titles from Hershey. Nice flex from the WPIAL. @THETRUTH is one happy man right now.
    @Jeff H. Great point bout WPIAL schools getting up for privates, and your thoughts on SCA. You nailed it brother.

  211. The Joneses says:

    MT Leeboooo. Wow. Great game plan great coaching. No more no less. Same. All Star team. I’m sure this doesn’t change anything for most. Incredible. No history for Prep tonight. Party on Mt Leebo

  212. Gary Z says:

    WOW!!!! What an upset. Mt. Lebo was prepared, hard nosed and those kids played their tails off. Bob Palko is an EXCELLENT COACH. This was beautiful to watch. A big time upset. Just can’t say enough about Mt. Lebo. I know this board is gonna be blowing up.

  213. Kyle says:

    Michael D – no a lot of the kids from McDevitt went to Wood.

  214. DENNIS PASCOE says:

    @ Jeff H. Not sure if Roth called for the 2pt. conversion as he was cleaning himself up from the Gatorade bath. Not his style.

  215. Brian says:

    @ Jeff H. The southern backups were in just as were the Serra Catholic backups. It’s not Southerns fault that they couldn’t stop them. You can’t tell the future players to not play when they get in. I’m sure nobody on southern thought they were going to score there. It was like a 70 yd run. You want the 2nd string player fall down or go out of bounds. Also, they didn’t go for 2, they were kicking the PAT and it was a bad snap and they were lucky enough to turn it into 2 points. As for your comment about sca fans thinking it’s their right to win a state title every year you have your thinking wrong. They set the expectations to get there every year. Do the right thing and move up? They’re playing in the classification they belong in as dictated by PIAA. Youre mentality is what is wrong with sports and winning in life. Someone is better so they should move up to allow someone else a chance. How about beat the teams work at getting better to beat them. Remember southern lost 6 in a row and couldn’t beat the wpial teams. Did they cry about Rochester moving up when they won like 3 or 4 state titles? No they figured it out and worked at what they needed to. People said move up to AA and southern wouldn’t do squat. That they’d never beat mt. Carmel. Now they say move up again because they’re winning in AA. I guess st. joes prep should play in college level so other teams could get a chance besides them.

  216. Wpialguy says:

    All good Gary z.

    So lookin into SJP, i see they start sophomores all across the field. Lebo, in opposite starts 10/11 seniors on defense. I think Lebo needs to force SJP into uncomfortable situations where the inexperience causes mistakes. Also, seeing SJP having that much young talent makes the next few years seem inevitable. Hope Lebo can keep up tonight. Knowing Palko, he will have that team playing with a huge chip on their shoulder.

  217. FrankG says:

    @the truth Where I work, anyone who uses all caps is sent to HR for counselling.

    Thanks for the Sacca example. His hometown, Delran, is where Holy Cross High School is and it’s at least 15 miles from the Prep. So he and his parents chose the Prep, even though he is playing safety and not QB, the position he played in junior football and the position his father played at Penn State. And there’s not much chance he’ll play QB at SJP for at least two more years since both Jones and O’Connor are sophomores. Clearly, the Saccas think the Prep is worth the investment.

  218. Jay says:


    Same thing happened to me. I’d been up for almost 48 hours and feel asleep right before the fourth quarter. When the announcers in todays game mentiones it went into overtime I looked at the box score and cursed at myself. Always have to miss out on the exciting finishes.

  219. EmanD3 says:

    Wow what a game at Hershey!!

    CV 7, Wyo 0. Wyo had 1st and goal at the 6, with about 6 min. left..and no pts. Then CV coach has a 4th & 2 at their own 18!! with 4 min left and goes for it…and they get it…What a game!! Both teams had five 1st downs in the first half.. Some great games this weekend…crushing loss for Wyo

  220. mgguy says:

    CV beats Wyomissing in a great defensive battle 7 – 0. WOW. Game had it all, defensive stops in red zone, gambling for first deep in own territory. Two great teams slugged it out.

  221. Gary Z says:

    I’m all for a Defensive battle, but this was beyond. Hats off to Wyo, tough hard nosed kids. Very well coached. BOTH COACHES are excellent. Very happy that C.V. found a way to win. At the end, they played to win. Huge call going on 4th that deep. Landon Alexander and Fitzsimmons are just studs. Great game. That’s 3 for the WPIAL, so hopefully we get a huge upset and make it 4. In reality that would be a HUGE UPSET. But that’s why we play the game. #WPIAL

  222. Michael D says:

    Do you get success points even if you lose the state final? Only asking cause wondering if Imhotep will be put in 6A next year….Didn’t they get a handful of Philly McDevitt kids when that school closed?

  223. Michael D says:

    Thanks Tornado Fan! Wasn’t hating on SCA at all…I just didnt understand the rule and didn’t know about the transfer aspect of it…….Makes sense now….Thanks

  224. THETRUTH says:


  225. thetruth says:

    The spread just came out for next years 6a game SJP -22.5 PTS. I will check and see if i can find spread for 2023 .

  226. Wpialguy says:

    Watch for FitzSimmons on Central Valley. Pitt recruit and absolute dominant defensive tackle.

  227. Jeff H, says:

    Anyone else have a problem with Southern Columbia scoring a touchdown in the last minute and then going for 2? I thought their program and especially their coach had more class than that, I guess they enjoy rubbing it in, my respect for their program just went down a few notches with that bush league move.

    @JC – so it’s wrong for people to think SC should play up a class or two given their level of dominance in 2A, but it’s completely OK for Aliquippa to be forced up to 5a because of some transfers who have not played a down all year? Yes, Jim Roth is a tremendous coach, and it goes without saying SC has one of the best programs in the state, but what’s so wrong with challenging your kids and move up to 3A. I and many others would have absolutely loved to see a rematch in the playoffs with Wyomissing, it’s very possible SC would have beat them. SC fans act as if it’s their birthright to win a state title every year, so keep on dominating 2A instead of doing the right thing and voluntarily play up a class.

    I think CV vs. Wyomissing is going to be as competitive as the McDevitt-Aliquippa game, 2 very evenly matched teams, I think CV wins by a touchdown. Why their star running back “Alexander the Great” is not getting any D1 offers, at least from MAC schools, is completely beyond me. As Gary Z stated I think he and Sean Fitzsimmons will be the difference along with their overall team speed and CV wins a close and exciting game.

    I also think Mt. Lebo has a legitimate chance to win tonight and will give SJP all they can handle, they remind me a lot of Pine Richland’s 2014 team that lost to SJP 48-41, doubt this game will be nearly that high scoring, especially given the weather conditions, but I’ll be surprised if this game is not close well into the 2nd half.

  228. Gary Z says:

    I sincerely apologize for coming off like that. I read a little too much into a couple of your posts. I agree with most of your posts. Respect! All good my WPIAL brother. I know a little bit, trust me I do not consider myself a know it all. Again I apologize for coming off like that, not my style.

  229. Jeff H. says:

    @Wilson4Ever – totally agree with you about GM, they had the talent to win 5A the last 2 years, but I disagree with you about the game against PR last year, I was at that game, the reason GM lost had a lot more to do with coaching than any late penalty call that was not reversed, the fact is PR’s coaching staff made a lot of adjustments in that game and GM didn’t. As I stated in my prior post, coaching matters A LOT in high school football, and teams with less talent and superior coaching occasionally beat teams with more talent, just ask Imhotep.

    @4th&forever – Neuman has never won a state football title, they have obviously won a boatload of basketball titles, but none in football, the only football programs from the PCL that have won state titles are the big 3 along with West as you mentioned. Wyomissing doesn’t seem to have any problems with Neuman or any other non-boundary school they play. I think D1 would be better served to stop whining about the obviously advantages the PCL and non-boundary schools have and focus on their own programs and the steps they can take to improve. It’s a mindset, I can tell you the top schools in District 7 do not have any qualms playing the non-boundary schools and go into the games thinking they can win, do you think Lebo feels they don’t have a chance tonight?

  230. Jeff H. says:

    @D3Mike & Frank G – I agree with both of you, obviously the playing field is not level, and the private/non-boundary schools have some big advantages. For many things in life the playing field is not level, so it’s how you react and handle that reality that’s important. Do you think Penn Trafford’s players felt that Imhotep had overwhelming talent and didn’t have a chance to win last night? It appears from afar many of the District 1 teams go into games against non-boundary schools feeling they don’t have a chance to win, and if that’s your attitude your chances of winning are almost zero. For those of you who think talent trumps everything and coaching doesn’t matter I give you last nights game as a prime example of why coaching is so critical at the high school level,.
    Obviously SJP has the most talent in the state year after year, but they also have some of the best coaching, and when you match superior talent with great coaching that’s a really tough combination to beat.

    I have yet to hear any practical solutions for dealing with the imbalances that exist between the top level non-boundary schools and everyone else, separate playoffs would not work, there are not enough non-boundary schools in the lower classes. The success factor despite it’s flaws has helped, D3 Mike’s suggestion of automatically moving non-boundary schools up a class is interesting, but do you do that across the board with the smaller non-boundary schools, why for example should Serra Catholic be forced to move up to 3A?

    Here’s a suggestion for District 1, start putting more emphasis on defense. It’s a lot of fun to put up gaudy numbers and score 50+ points each game and win 62-49, and that mindset and style of play seem pretty prevalent in D1, but that will get you in trouble when you go out of district and play teams with equal or better talent that take defense seriously, regardless of whether you are playing a non-boundary or public school. I said on here the other day Penn Trafford’s defense would keep them in the game, and that’s exactly what happened, I did not go out on a limb and predict PT would win, but I knew that was going to be a competitive game because of PT’s defense and coaching. I saw PT’s game against Peters Township in week 4 when they lost 28-14 to fall to 2-2, at that point I and probably no one else would have predicted they would win a state championship, but they kept working and improving each week which is a great testament to their kids and coaching staff.

  231. thetruth says:

    GARY Z you hit the nail right on the head.Great reply. amen.

  232. Gary Z says:

    SJP 42- Mt. Lebanon 21
    We all know the talent and big time players Prep has. I don’t waste my time on public/charter/private debate. With these certain few teams, everyone knows what’s up. Not worth talking bout, cause it’s not changing. My. Leno has some great players, and one of the best HS coaches in the game. I expect Mt. Lebo to make it competitive and play very hard nosed football. Ultimately I see SJP and all their depth and abundance of talent to take over. I so hope I am wrong. But gotta give my honest opinion. One side note, interested to see what factor weather plays here. Let’s go Mt. Lebo shock the state n pull off an epic upset. Good luck to both programs.

  233. Kevin X says:

    Very good potential to be a real fun weather day for the final two games today, especially the night game.

  234. The Joneses says:

    @Berksguy that post was possibly one of the best I read here.

    What do you say reading Garyz’s great post. I feel he expresses my sentiment. PT outplayed and out coached Tep (per Gary I didn’t see the game). I don’t know if PT has D1 players and tep has more than Prep. Do we quickly say “well it’s only one year” or it’s only tep. Do we say if you work, game plan and adjust at a high/higher level than your opponent you can win regardless of all the talent. Or sadly does it all not matter because it isn’t Prep?

  235. Kyle says:

    Imhotep had a point in the 4th quarter they had a 4-1 that they should’ve gone for it. The 50 stack is easy to beat if you know what you’re doing

  236. Buddy says:

    Boy did I screw up! I turned the Tep/PT game off early 4th quarter after Tep went up 14 to 7. Reason being,

    PT couldn’t stop Tep and PT couldn’t move against Tep. If anyone has video of that game, especially 4th Quater, please send.

  237. Wpialguy says:

    Gary z don’t take everything so personal. I was wrong. I guess you’ve never been wrong before. Gary z the all-knowing football guy. Relax dude. My fault i didn’t realize ihmoteps 2 4 star defensive ends would be a combined 300 pounds. They looked like defensive backs. Understand they have talent, but wow they are going to need some development in college. What frustrates me is these teams out East have multiple division one fringe guys, and it seems out west here if you’re not a superstar, it’s like pulling teeth trying to get offered. So many good players passed up over here. Moon, mount Lebanon and Central Valley all come to mind. Central Valley running back, Alexander doesn’t have offers, neither does Lebo RB. We’ll see if they continue to be best player on field.

  238. Buddy says:

    Yes, there is a Santa Claus!

  239. Gary Z says:

    Central Valley 28- Wyo 14
    I believe CV is to athletic and have an extremely physical team. Plus the team speed is heavily in favor of CV. I look for Landon Alexander the RB, and Sean Fitzsimmons their beast G/DT to be big here. Fitzsimmons is going to Pitt, this kid can literally take a game over from the DT position. Both teams are very well coached. Just think CV has to many weapons n ways to score. Wyo is a hard nosed team for sure, and anything can happen. So hopefully the WPIAL gets its 3rd. Good luck to both, hope we see more great football.

  240. Wilson4Ever says:

    Yea Inhotep Charter had a very bad night. They lost the 5A state title 17-14 in OT to Penn-Trafford and also their #12 nationally ranked basketball team lost 75-68 to Reading High who was ranked #21 nationally all in the same evening. And getting back to football again I would like to say that I really feel that Governor Mifflin was fully capable of winning state titles in 5A in 2020 and also in 2021 IMO. I heard if it wasn’t for a bad call leading to a very late Pine-Richland touchdown that wasn’t reversed in last year’s state 5A Semi-final game Governor Mifflin could have won and went on to win the 2020 5A State Title and also if GM didn’t get upset by Exeter Twp. this year in the 5A District III Championship game I also feel they could have won this year’s 2021 5A State Title but that’s just my opinion. But Pine-Richland last year and Penn-Trafford this year were both great deserving teams but I also think GM was equally as good as both of them or even better IMO but it just wasn’t meant to be. And that is why I think Pennsylvania high school football is the greatest sport. And lastly I also think Governor Mifflin must really feel snake bitten with two very bitter pills they had to swallow from last year and this year especially because GM had their two best teams ever in 2020 and 2021 and for having Nick Singleton on their team who was ranked the #1 running back in the country in the class of 2022. GO MUSTANGS!

  241. D4guy says:

    Southern doesn’t meet the transfer part of the success factor. Yes they obviously meet the success factor by winning states every year but they don’t meet the transfer rule. In the past with some of their teams they would of competed and wins states at a higher level but I don’t think this years team would of won 3A. Aliquipa has success at the next level because they have kids move into their district some from surrounding areas (as evidence by transfer rule).. So even they are a small school, they are getting the top talent from around their area.
    Congrats to PT. Glad to see a public school win. I can only imagine how that community is celebrating.

  242. Wilson4Ever says:

    Great 5A title game.

  243. FrankG says:

    Penn Trafford deserves lots of compliments for a very good win tonight. Looking at their crowd, I thought of all the support (of various kinds) that no doubt has helped make the team successful. I felt sorry for the IMHOTEP players. They work hard and seem like a close team but–as others have noted–something always seems to make them fall short of their potential. I don’t follow them closely so I hope someone can say whether a lack of continuity in their coaching staff (if, in fact, that’s the case) is part of the problem.

    @thetruth. You have obviously been obsessing about the Prep for a long time. Hysteria is evident; just look at your posts. I’ll just take one instance where you couldn’t keep your finger off the all-caps key. You seem convulsed that the Prep draws players from South Jersey but you want to pretend that players from Hainesport or Mount Laurel or Vineland don’t have to get up earlier to get to school than if they were going to their local public school, don’t as a rule get home later from practice, and don’t have much further to travel for summer workouts or practices. And you seem determined to deny there are higher academic standards at the Prep than at most other high schools. I’m not for a moment going to suggest all the Prep players are outstanding students–though some are as evidenced by the number who go to Harvard, Penn, Amherst, Princeton, etc.–but they’ve lost many good players (usually during or after freshman year) to academic difficulties. I have no interest in asking for anyone’s sympathy for the Prep or its players, merely some recognition that what they’ve accomplished hasn’t come easily and certainly not automatically. For one thing, there are lots of potentially conflicting expectations to manage. It didn’t, for instance, work out with the Reids.

    As for IMG: it strikes me that IMG and SJP take quite different approaches. IMG does everything it can to make things easy for its students/athletes: on-site dorms, customized meal plans, facilities that almost no high school can match, classes built around team schedules, and no summer practices at dawn in North Philly.

  244. Gary Z says:

    @mcd 65
    You said and so did I. Great individual athletes, undisciplined as a team though. Routinely out coached. You could see it on the sidelines, coaches yelling, asking for penalties every play. Their coaches did not adjust, or coach em up. P.T. routinely got yards on the counter split zone w Yaccamelli. Ran it a dozen times, didn’t adjust. ‘Tep was missing blocks when PT would shift last minute from an Odd Stack to a 50 front. That’s on the coaches. Yes mcd 65, the ‘Quips would handle ‘Tep. Actually not being a homer, I truly believe ‘Tep loses to WPIAL 5A runner up, Moon.

  245. Kevin X says:

    Rough night for Imhotep, not only the football team looses, but their nationally ranked boys hoops team gets beat by Reading in their opening game.

  246. mcd 65 says:

    Congratulations to Penn Trafford. They were a much more disciplined squad and much better coaching for sure. Imhotep has athletes ,but cant seem to put together a good game when facing a solid coached team . How many times did they squander opportunities with stupid penalties. Aliqippa would beat them by a bunch.

  247. Gary Z says:

    Let’s go C. Valley! Bring another one home to D7(WPIAL). I already picked C.V., let’s get to 3-1 before the showdown at Nt. Make my pick on that later. However us being HS Football fans in PA, along with all the kids involved, are the real winners. We are seeing some great football. Just outstanding. Congrats to all the teams, hats off for giving us the pleasure seeing such awesome games.

  248. Gary Z says:

    “Trafford will not have an answer. Yaccamelli will have nowhere to run. Imhotep wins big. 42-0.” Do U make blind picks? Do you analyze the teams. Listen I have been an Asst coach in the WPIAL for 20+ years. However you don’t need to have that experience to know ‘Tep does not have a kicker and not the best disciplined team. They will have trouble when they can’t just run around w all their D1 Athletes and play backyard ball. Check out some film when you do your analysis. See which TEAM is more complete, and well rounded. Maybe tell us who transferred in and that’s why they won/win. Maybe just stick to talking bout school boards, boundaries and other negative stuff. I don’t do the boundary,public/private debate. I break teams down, try to stay positive and make my best pick. From one WPIAL guy to another… with all respect. #WPIAL!!

  249. Kyle says:

    Yes Bob Sundin when you win championship games and they aren’t close, you should move up.

  250. Kyle says:

    Imhotep lost 17-14.. tried to you about the offense

  251. Gary Z says:

    PENN TRAFFORD!! What more can you say other than what a great TEAM. Imhotep has a great group of D1 All Stars. Hats off to them on a good season. However, they lose to teams who are disciplined and play TEAM football. They also get OUT COACHED! Just being honest. Remember ‘13 when the writer from whatever Philly paper wrote before the game how ‘Tep w all their D1 players would blowout S.Fayette? Then S.F. humiliated them 41-0. S.F. Had NO D1 players. Played TEAM FOOTBALL and thoroughly OUT COACHED ‘Tep.

  252. BerksGuy says:

    The advantage which non-boundary schools have over public schools is substantial and is reflected in the rosters of the non-boundary schools. The success of St. Joseph’s Prep speaks for itself.
    However, let’s look at Imhotep Charter whose single state championship is sometimes cited as evidence that the difference between non-boundary schools and boundary schools is not that great.
    According to the PA Football News Imhotep has 14 players who have received offers from Division 1 schools and Imhotep’s offensive line averages 319 pounds. There are many years when the entirety of Berks County (population over 400,000 people) does not have 14 Division One players. As for the size of the offensive line, a 2020 article published by ESPN indicates that the average NFL offensive lineman weighs 315 pounds. Imhotep is usually vastly physically superior to the teams which it plays. The factors which have prevented Imhotep from winning multiple state championships are coaching and discipline.

    The suggestion that the playing field can be leveled by boundary schools declaring themselves to be non-boundary schools is unworkable for legal and societal reasons. Most of Pennsylvania’s present school districts were created by the Pennsylvania Legislature pursuant to Act 14 of 1949 which established districts based on municipal boundaries (cities, towns, boroughs or more than one municipality with the agreement of the municipalities involved). Although this law has been amended numerous times, no amendment permits school districts to unilaterally change or eliminate boundaries. That would require action by the Pennsylvania Legislature.

    The societal problems which would be caused by allowing boundary schools to unilaterally become non-boundary schools would make the above described legal obstacles seem trivial. Reading High has become a state playoff basketball power. What would happen if Reading High’s best basketball players transferred to Wilson West Lawn because Wilson has more resources and fewer problems than an inner city school. Reading residents would be unhappy to see an exodus of their best athletes. Wilson taxpayers might be unhappy to be subsidizing students whose parents pay their taxes to other municipalities. Academics pose the same kinds of problems. Suppose the best and the brightest students at Reading High transferred to Wyomissing. The proposed solution of allowing individual school districts to declare themselves non-boundary schools would benefit some schools and destroy other schools.

  253. thetruth says:

    to tep 215 imhotep institute charter has no boundries its right on their website.They only draw the players from philadelphia is like saying st joe prep only draws their players from pennsylvania new jersey and delaware. My bad st. joes does do that. How many football players are in philadelphia tep215 about 75. Sorry just kidding but did u really say they only draw players from philly.In 2015 the tep had a o line that averaged 6’5 307 POUNDS. IN THE SEM-FINALS THEY PLAYED aTEAM THAT WAS 14-0 SAUCON VALLEY .,THE WHOLE TOWN CAME TO THE GAME TO SEE A FIRST TIME STATE TITLE WINNER. DO U KNOW WHAT THEY GOT THE TEP SCORED 60 POINTS IN THE FIRST HALF AND SCORED 72 FOR THE GAME THEY COULD HAVE PUT UP 100 IF NOT FOR ALL THEIR PENALTIES.To get into tep u have to go thru a lottery system.but tep 215 do u know that the most amazing thing… happens .some of the best basketball players and football players just happen to get picked ahead of a student on the lottery list. I ask u isnt that amazing the luck of those players.The tep uses a randomization software application to select names from all applicants. If you are not as lucky as the athletes taken ahead of you maybe u can go on the waitlist for next year.since u werent. picked this year. Not so fast my friend u are taken off the list and must re-apply the next year again.JUST wondering tep215 if the reason for that rule is to keep more spots open for future d1 recruits. Shame on me for thinking that..Just thinking about the poor disadvantaged minority youth that apply to tep and dont get in because of the software system that keeps picking athletes ahead of them.Did u really say that tep is not like the catholic schools,From wear i sit they are exactly like catholic schools and its winning at any cost .Last but not least what happened to albie crosby that leader of men why did he step down with that powerhouse?

  254. Jc says:

    Only on this website would people ask why they keep playing in the same classification if they keep winning!!!!!! Lol So if your good you have to keep moving up until your not good, lol. They play in the classification that they r supposed to play in. Teams in AA should get better. Cry babies

  255. thetruth says:

    Cry me a river frankg , could u send me a handkerchief for xmas i have tears coming down my face right now ,not from crying but from laughing ,you have the audacity to compare 2 nfl players financial situation to the rest of the sjp athlectic families. what a brillant statement by you. Why dont u bring up andy reid, john runyon ,marty mornhinweg, lets do a this is your life series.Gabe could host the series he has some free time now. He recruited better at sjp then.he did at temple.Maybe prep could hire him back as a recruiting guru. oregon is hiring back kelly. who says u cant go home again.No i will not check out all your former players biographys i have to go outside and watch my grass grow. DID YOU KNOW PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS GET UP EARLY IN THE MORNING AND. ALSO AND TAKE A BUS TO SCHOOL. Public school athletes also have to stay academically elgible. We also have football practices late into the evening’. we also take buses home.ST. joes could build a state of the art football facility next week u got plenty of deep pockets . Why dont u come down from ur ivory tower and help fundraise the monies .Im sure u would be good at it. I didnt realize the football players at st. joes are at such a disadvantage. i would like to apologize for my complete lack of sympathy. by the way do u have any idea how much st. joes has spent on AIRPLANE rides for the football team the last 10 years . probably could be used for a new football facility. Could u answer me one more question 2019 when saint joes played that fine upstanding institution IMG ACACDEMY IMG was being investigated for arguably the worst college admissions scandal in high school history and found guilty. Numerous high ranking officials were fired or stepped down.The philadelphia catholic archdiocese athletic director stephen haug and other catholic league officials and ST. JOES ALUMNI DID NOT WANT ST, JOES TO PLAY THE GAME. ST.JOES PRESIDENT FATHER SWOPE AND ATHLETIC DIRECTOR DENNIS HART REFUSED, REFUSED, REFUSED, COMMENT WHEN ASKED WHY . WERE U AT THAT GAME? BE HONEST FRANKG u of such high moral standing. One more thing the penna. football news had freedom at NUMBER 4INTHE STATE when they played the prep again u gave out misinformation to the readers .

  256. Gary Z says:

    It’s simple with SCA. I’m not hating either, but they are about winning championships not competing in state playoffs. Why they have not been moved up, I have no idea. Let em play a Central Valley in the finals if they could make it in 3A. Wouldn’t work out well. But they are a class group of kids and well coached. They play who they play. But come on, let’s see ya compete.

  257. D11 Matt says:

    I respect the heck out of Southern but they went through the playoffs in AA like butter again. No AA team even touched them. 5 in a row. At some point you think they would challenge themselves in the state playoffs. They were have had a heck of a rematch in AAA playoffs with Wyomissing. I get it…..they are a small school but when you have won 6 of 7 last AA championships….and all by blowouts……anyway AA would have been interesting if southern was AA this year. Mount Carmel, Northern Lehigh, Richland, Serra, and Farrell would have been a heck of a top 5 and it would have been wide open. All got blownout by Southern except Farrell who lost to Serra

  258. d6football says:

    I believe SCA hasn’t met the transfer part of the rule yet to bump them up.

  259. Tornado Fan says:

    @Michael D and others – they have not been forced to move up because they have not triggered the transfer portion of the PIAA Competition Formula

    In order to be moved up, you need both ‘success points’ and >3 athletic transfers in a 2 year cycle. The last cycle they had enough success points and seemingly had enough transfers but appealed and won because 2 of 4 students transferred between 8th and 9th grade. From looking at their roster this year, I am only aware of 1 football transfer (not sure if there are more). If that is correct, they again wouldn’t be forced to play up in the upcoming cycle unless the PIAA makes some kind of exception.

  260. bob Sundin says:

    sca vs serra catholic: approx same student population, why should they move up? because they are consistently good? The refs tried to even the game out. PIAA ought to look at it’s officiating staff.

  261. Michael D says:

    As SCA is about to win a title again…..can someone explain again why they get to stay put in a class they dominate and the handful of schools that were forced to move up a year or two ago? Not really hating on them but I never knew the explanation as to why….shouldn’t they have to go to 3A next year? any feedback

  262. Ron says:

    When will the PIAA grow a spine and make Southern Columbia move up in class? How many more blow-outs do we have to sit through? How have they not been forced to move up yet? Five state titles in a row and somehow that doesn’t generate enough competition points to force a move? Give me a break.

  263. Kyle says:

    Southern Columbia – Why not move up to 3A

  264. Kyle says:

    @ ThatGuyFromPhilly – You consider yourself the top team in the state correct? You scored 14 points against an ok Dematha team. Scoring only 12 points versus an ok PCC, Why not play better out of state teams, St Joes Prep played against Milton a team who is in the 7A Georgia final.

    Until Tep gets passed this middle school offense they draw up they won’t be able to beat state champions in other states.

  265. 4th&Forever says:

    Not much to say besides “see D3 Mike” because IMHO, he’s done an excellent job defining and articulating the boundary vs. non-boundary issue.

    215, yes Imhotep kids all come from Philly, but they produce almost four FBS players per class, year in… year out and beat the other Philly public programs by 40+. I doubt an all star team from the rest of the district could beat Tep. Gotta say I was wrong about the program falling off when Crosby left.

    Jeff H, you’re looking at this from the perspective of state championships, not consistent local dominance, because it’s not just Tep, SJP, Wood and LaSalle who are running roughshod through D1 and D12. Neumann-Goretti has a state championship and is always in the hunt to advance in states. West Catholic has a state championship and is usually in the hunt to advance in states. Conwell-Egan is a cut below, but in usually in the hunt to win districts and advance a round or so in states. Before they closed D12 Bishop McDevitt, same thing. Meanwhile, D1 has 6A schools that are forfeiting games due to a lack of players. In SE PA you can name about a half dozen or so 6A teams that have consistently good programs, while the rest of the teams kind of muddle along hoping to catch lightning in a bottle like Cheltenham did in ‘19. The first order of business is recognizing the reality of the situation, which I think is demonstrably obvious. The second is deciding if it’s a problem. That’s a legitimate question, but I’d argue why have enrollment classifications at all if we’re willing to have schools play by different rules? Continuing on the present course is okay if “we” ( the PIAA) think it’s acceptable. If we don’t, something needs to be done. Maybe having separate boundary and non-boundary brackets and merging them in at the semifinal stage. You’d probably get similar results in the end, but at least more public schools would make it to that point.

    One correction… girls basketball (not soccer as I had said) participation is falling in line with football.

  266. FrankG says:

    @D3 Mike I agree, as I hoped I had made clear, that the playing field is not level. I just want to suggest that it’s not as tilted as some suggest and that the only tilt isn’t between private and public schools. I also agree that some public schools (like Reading and like many of the ones in Philly) deal with realities many suburban schools don’t have to deal with–or deal with to a much smaller degree.

    Most Prep football families pay tuition, often substantial amounts of tuition. Of course, I don’t know the specifics of the Trotter and Harrison families’ finanances, but I strongly suspect they are not at all typical of most Prep families, including football families. You might check the stories of Shane Davis (now in med school), Justin Montague (now a doctor?), Malik Cooper, Giambi Nesbitt, etc. to get a more complete picture.

    My only point in referencing games from several years ago is to counter the claims that the Prep routinely demolishes public school teams. I don’t expect anything like a demolition this weekend. Frankly, I’m surprised, though I shouldn’t be, by some of the outrage over last weekend’s game against G-V. The week before Freedom–not touted as an especially good D11 champion–gave the Prep a very good game.

  267. FrankG says:

    @Tep215 What people mean is that within Tep’s boundaries–and the boundaries of every other PPL school–live more than1.5 million people while within the boundaries of most school districts live far, far fewer people. I have no problem with Tep and understand all PPL schools face challenges most public schools in the state don’t face. You can begin, in most cases, with facilities.

  268. D3 Mike says:

    Frank, I totally agree with you. People don’t talk enough about how each year St. Joe’s Prep has to overcome the logistical burdens placed on the car service drivers of the Trotter and Harrison families, or how much money wealthy parents have to shell out for private tutoring. (Just busting chops here).

    Reading High loses dozens of athletes each year due to academics, more who drop out to work to put food on the table for their families, and even more to drugs, arrest, and in some cases, murder. For many programs, the playing field is definitely less level than what most people think.

    None of which is the fault of Prep or it’s fans, but propagating a “private schools have it rough, too” false equivalency certainly is. I don’t find “Prep played a close game in 2014 against this one suburban boundary school” or “see, McDevitt lost to a 1A program!… one with 51 kids on the roster, multiple D1 recruits, and 14 consecutive WPIAL finals appearances” to be compelling arguments that the system is fair. Those examples represent little but exceptions to the rule.

    Non-boundary football programs comprise only 12% of the high schools in PA but won 49% of the state football titles contested in the 2010s. They won 75% of the state titles in the higher half of classifications. And no, all 24 of the state titles were not all won by St Joe’s Prep. The numbers don’t lie when it comes to exposing a ridiculously uneven playing field, and I’m sure outside of the WPIAL the district title numbers are even more skewed toward privates in the classes where non-boundary schools exist.

  269. The Joneses says:

    @#Tep215 you are RIGHT! I forgot someone told me last year you had to live in Philadelphia to attend Tep. Welp down goes another argument.

  270. ThatGuyFromPhilly says:

    @D3 Mike I’d love to see some of those match-ups too, so why do you think they don’t schedule each other in their non-conference games? I love the games Tep and La Salle have played or games that the D12 teams play against the Inter-Ac teams. And I miss the old La Salle – North Penn matchups.

    Part of the problem as I see it is that many schools in PA play their league and other teams they are comfortable with. I’m sure Prep, La Salle, Wood, Northeast or Tep would love to have a home and home arrangement with any of those schools you mentioned.

  271. Wpialguy says:

    I’ve doubted Serra all year. But it seems like they have a knack for creating turnovers. I think SC will be smart with the ball, and Serra won’t be able to score. Something like 28-0.

    Trafford will not have an answer. Yacamelli will have nowhere to run. Imhotep wins big. 42-0

  272. Wpialguy says:

    I have no problem with any students wanting to attend a private or charter school. If you step foot in some of these public schools, you would understand why kids leave. Pittsburgh public school board just refused to pass a new rule allowing for stricter discipline for students who disrupt class too much. In essence, the school board ignored the principals and won’t let them discipline kids enough. And these schools must wonder why charter schools are growing at the rate they do. I think the easy answer is to provide private and charter schools their own playoff division. But that is easier said than done as there wouldn’t be enough teams in certain parts of the state. There is a difference between a private school like Serra Catholic, who has one state championship in their history and won one wpial title since 2007 and a school like SJP.

  273. Gary Z says:

    Gonna go w an upset here.
    Penn Trafford 21-6.
    Cade Yaccamelli always plays best in big games, he gets loose and scores a few. P-T will make a big play or two on D.
    Serra gives some fight to S.C. but SC pulls away.
    SC 42- Serra 14

  274. #Tep215 says:

    Idk how people call Tep a non-boundary school when ALL THERE PLAYERS COME FROM PHILADELPHIA there literally in the PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC LEAGUE meaning all there students must be Philadelphia residents. Imhotep gets greats athletes cause of the number of great Popwarner teams around it and kids see how lil league stars go there and become national recruits. Also Teps offense is very young @ the skills position. Most of there seniors are lineman or backers. Tep plays the hardest schedule in the state behind SJP playing national powers year in and year out. Imhotep is nothing like the catholic schools like Wood n Lasalls n SJP they dominate the city with kids WANTING TO ATTEND the school.

  275. Gary Z says:

    I am not an Alliquippa alumni, resident or coach. Just really respect what they do and how they do it. I am a fan of all D7 (WPIAL) schools, respect them playing up and beating a 4A private. Imagine if they played in their true class of 1A. Even bump em up to 2A, be a different landscape in Hershey that’s for sure. Serra will give Southern some fight, but Southern will pull away. I would love to see Southern bump up to 3A, wonder how they would fair against a C. Valley. I think I know that answer. No disrespect to S.C. great program, and win with class. But come on, voluntarily play up like the Quips have ALWAYS DONE. I don’t see Wyo beating C.V. too many Athletes, too physical up front. Maybe we get lucky and have a game like tonight.

  276. Gary Z says:

    What a great game. The 1A Quips beat the private 4A McDevitt. Gotta respect those Quips, year in and year out they perform. Hats off to B.M. was an awesome game. I see Beaver Co going 2-0, take C.V. over Wyo, 28-14.

  277. FrankG says:

    @thetruth Yes, I know Milton is one of the top public schools in Georgia. Their one loss came to another Georgia public school. SJP was scheduled to play a public school from Texas last year, but the game got cancelled because of Covid. SJP lost to Marietta in 2019, lost to Pine-Richland in 2017 after a very close win against Coatesville, had a very close win over North-Penn in 2016, didn’t get past LaSalle in 2015, had very close wins over Parkland and P-R in 2014, and close wins over Frankford and Neshaminy in 2013. They don’t schedule many games against public schools, so it’s pretty clear that they don’t simply blow away public school competition in the playoffs. And it would be far from a shock if Mount Lebanon wins this week.

    I guess you are thinking any public school with a very good football team is not a “normal school.” How many public schools has North Penn or Coatesville, who play 12 games or more a year against public schools, lost to in the last ten years?

    No Prep guy I know denies that there is a large advantage in not having boundaries. There is also an advantage to not having to take a bus to practice, to having your own home field for games, to having all your players within a 2-5 mile radius of the school (especially when it comes to scheduling practices and getting home from practices), to not losing players because of academic standards, etc. Does this mean there’s a level playing field? I don’t think so, but I don’t think it’s as tilted as many think.

    I have no idea what this means: “Since u know everything about garnet valley freedom maybe u let us all know their record its not the least bit lopsided im sure.” Nor do I know what a jeff cap is, but if it’s something that calms the wearer why not give it a try yourself?

  278. Jeff H. says:

    @Football 1 – you still think the publics and privates should be split after today’s games, with a thrilling Aliquippa victory over Bishop McDevitt, a school with almost 2 1/2 times the enrollment This whole boundary/non-boundary debate comes down to 1 school, or maybe 2 if you want to throw Wood into the equation, if it wasn’t for SJP we wouldn’t have to listen to the same arguments year after year. The PIAA knew exactly what they were getting into when they invited D12 to join, they maybe didn’t envision SJP becoming so dominant, but looking back this was pretty predictable. The results on the field show publics can compete with and beat privates at every level except 6A, and even there several public schools have played close games against SJP, so I don’t think an across the board split into separate tournaments is a very practical or desirable way to go. Despite its many flaws the success formula has worked in moving some privates up a level or 2 which has helped the publics in both 4A and 5A (see ECP and AW, we’ll see what happens next year when they are back in 5A)

    For tomorrow’s games I have a feeling both of them are going to be closer than most people expect. Serra’s defense has forced an amazing 20 turnovers in the last 3 playoff games, which is a stunning number given the level of competition, hard to believe they can keep that up, but if they can somehow be +3 tomorrow they can hang in with SCA, if they don’t get some turnovers they will probably lose by 3-4 scores. I also think PT’s defense will keep them in the game against Imhotep, at least for awhile, but like most other teams PT is going to have lots of problems sustaining any drives against Tep’s defense and aren’t going to score very many points.

  279. mcd 65 says:


    What a great performance by both teams. Thoroughly impressed with quips coaching ,,discipline and talent .Their big guys can really move and that Freshman RB plays like a senior.

  280. Jay says:


    Yikes man, I caught a backdraft from that sick burn. Feverishly excited for the retort.

    Also this 4A game is even better than I thought it would be. I think 3A will have a chance to be just as tight. The others may not… unless my prediction aka pipe dream comes true in 6A.

  281. D3 Mike says:

    “Never had either but I can spell both”… I’m dying. And I’m planning to steal that.

    I don’t think it’s about morality or ethics, but someone’s views on amateur sports does say something about their values; specifically, about their conception of fair play. Some people are in the “well, if it’s legal, it’s fine” camp. I’m not one of those people. You’re also allowed, per the rules, to try to win 84-0 every game but I don’t think that makes it right when a coach attempts it. Personally, I think there would be major drawbacks to splitting the championships into public / private and it probably wouldn’t be good for football, overall, in PA. I might be wrong on that point and I would be interested in hearing the counterarguments on why a split would be healthier. That said, although I support keeping things mostly the way they are, it’s still nice to hear fans of non-boundary programs at least admit that the current system does not represent a level playing field. Toward those ends, I think remedies such as the transfer rule represent improvements. I’d support other changes such as moving every non-boundary up a class or two, automatically. Maybe start a 7A for the major Catholic programs, IDK. I’d love to see a public power tournament with Central Dauphin, Parkland, Harrisburg, North Allegheny, State College, Coatesville, North Penn, etc. Those schools don’t get to face off against each other often enough and I think most HS football fans would be intrigued to watch.

  282. thetruth says:

    U like to manipulate wording to fit your narrative. It is not only my opinion it is also shared by alot of high school football coaches. fans and politicians around the state of pa. Having morals means u should have a sense of good to do the right thing and admit that the playoffs in penna. is tilted towards privates and charters . I am far from lazy although i have never rowed a boat like u. I bet titanic is your favorite movie .Did u really say your views are on a very minor area of eligibility for football .Thats like asking mrs. lincoln how was the play? At least u were honest on one thing having no standards we can all agree on that.Oh by the way u put out there that sjp lost to a public school team this year but u did not elaborate upon. The team they lost to. Number one it was not a public school from pennsylvania it was a school in georgia that currently is ranked 19th in the country . and is 13-1.U sort of glossed over that by implying that a normal public high school team beat the prep. but thats what people like u do . hey frankg could u tell all of us how many normal public school teams have beaten st. joes in the last 10 years . Since u know everything about garnet valley freedom maybe u let us all know their record its not the least bit lopsided im sure . u will be diligent in doing that it shoudnt take u long.Looking forward to your reply have a nice day . Are u wearing your jeff cap and letter sweater tomorrow,. take your oar tomorrow so we can locate u.

  283. ThatGuyFromPhilly says:

    @Kyle, guessing you don’t consider Dematha “Top out of state talent”. Tell me who in PA you consider having played a tougher schedule that Imhotep’s opening 3 of PCC, Dematha and La Salle. Maybe SJP, but they are just as hated in this forum so I’ll wait to hear a D1-11 school listed.

  284. EmanD3 says:

    Wow…McD up 13-0, 10 min left in the first!!

  285. FrankG says:


    –“my statement is confusing.” Agree completely
    –“but i did say u cannot have football players from outside of pennsylvania playing for a pennsylvania state. title” That is not a PIAA regulation, just your opinion.
    –“what is confusing to me is your total lack of morals regarding high school athletes who would like to compete on equal footing” It may be a matter of ethics; it’s not a matter of morality.
    –“lasalle and the prep said screw u we are a separate enity we do what we want to do.because we are elitist.” Not what either school said. If their decision was partly to get the PCL to change its decision, it worked. Calling someone or an institution “elitist” is just lazy.
    –“no morals just like u sir.” You’ve never met me and know nothing about me other than my views on the very minor area of eligibility for PIAA football players.
    –“the privates and charters take the standards to a whole new standard” No idea what this means.
    –“you and people like u feel entitled” I guess you can’t be “elitist” without being “entitled.” To what do I feel entitled? And who are the people like me?
    –“i heard the tailgate will consist of watercress sandwhiches and cavior” Never had either but I can spell both.
    –” have a nice day.” Thank you. You too.

  286. David Mika says:

    Its posted

  287. Jay says:


    Sorry, I didn’t refresh the page and see that comment was already posted.

  288. Jay says:

    Ahhhh I made a post with all my predictions but it’s gone now. Sad 🙁 it had scores and everything


    – Bishop Guilfoyle 30-20 (that second half was exciting)

    – Southern Columbia 49-14

    – Central Valley 30-28

    – Bishop McDevitt 23-21

    – Imhotep 34-13


    @thetruth I like the PA/NJ idea… for a few years now I’ve just called prep the tri-state all-stars… it really riles people up on Twitter, it’s great fun

  289. Wpialguy says:

    Over/under on number of fans Imhotep brings to Hershey? I’d set the number at 30.5

  290. thetruth says:

    my statement is confusing. i never said the prep cant have students from new jersey only to you and the prep faithful and nobody else.i never said the prep cant have students from new jersey .but i did say u cannot have football players from outside of pennsylvania playing for a pennsylvania state. title .what is confusing to me is your total lack of morals regarding high school athletes who would like to compete on equal footing.Can u tell me why when the pandemic hit and the catholic league . ,said they would not play football till further notice, lasalle and the prep said screw u we are a separate enity we do what we want to do.because we are elitist. no morals just like u sir. ARTICLE 11of the PIAA constitution states promote. UNIFORMITY of STANDARDS in all interscholistic athletic competition.the privates and charters take the standards to a whole new standard .Its people like yourself that refuse to see this is unfair to the public school kids because you and people like u feel entitled .On saturday get up there early i heard the tailgate will consist of watercress sandwhiches and cavior .take your wine glass i heard they only have paper cups.Is there a bus or two coming from new jersey ?Will u be there frankg or will u be out recruiting? have a nice day.

  291. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff, sadly, the HS sports participation rate in America is down across the board, I think about 10% in the last decade or so and girls soccer is down as much or more than football. I won’t get into the negative effects on us as a society, but from the “what does it mean to HS football in Pennsylvania?” perspective, I think it depends. The larger the school, the smaller the problem, but for some smaller schools, we’re already seeing a transition to eight man or dropping football entirely. From a “quality of play” viewpoint, I don’t see a difference for the big programs, but the play at the weaker small schools can be distressingly bad.

    As far as the boundary vs. non-boundary issue, I think there are a variety of solutions everyone would find acceptable to some degree. However, I have little doubt the PIAA will use none of them.

  292. Jay says:

    Shooting from the hip here because I don’t know much about half of these programs… but predictions are fun either way.

    1A) Bishop Guilfoyle 30-20 over Redbank Valley
    4A) Bishop McDevitt 23-21 over Aliquippa

    2A) SCA 49-14 over Serra Catholic
    5A) Imhotep 34-13 over Penn-Trafford

    3A) Central Valley 30-28 over Wyomissing
    6A) Mt. Lebanon 42-35 over SJP

  293. Kyle says:

    @Jeff H – Not sure you seen it but we both agreed on Imhotep having a terrible offense. I know they have a sophomore quarterback but it’s like they don’t trust him or have trusted there quarterbacks for some time, always running wildcat.

    They might beat 6A teams on taken but not the top tier teams and certainly not top tier out of state talent

  294. The Joneses says:

    @Football1 I agreed with everything you said in the last post until you threw, “fair playing field” in there. The playing field is “fair” Same age group, no post grad players, same rules of practice, preparation etc. Access to resources in my opinion and based on the Webster’s definition of fair, conforming with the established rules” still makes the playing field fair.

    This isn’t a bad idea “I still feel the best football for PA would be the top publics for a title and the top privates for a title. Then you’ll have apples for apples may the best team win” you just would have a public champion and a private champion and no state champion, which in theory is that what the district championships are and then we get into the state tournament? I think if we do your model you will have banter back and forth about lets see who’s best in the state, with no one willing to play a game because of scheduling etc.

    Let me make my stance clear though. The model may need to change. It may not provide the most competitive championship experience. Prep is not doing anything immoral, outside the rules, unfair. It was fine when Prep joined the PIAA and probably was fine until what 2012-13 when Prep actually started winning. This tells us even a new model is likely to become flawed over time.

  295. The Joneses says:

    @TheTruth, ““There is a reason why they call it the 6a penna. state, penna st 6a pennsylvania st football playoffs because u have to be should be from the state of pennsylvania” It’s about where the school is. Classification is about how many students are enrolled at the school. District is determined where the school is located. Its has nothing to do with where the students live and it shouldn’t have anything to do with where the students live. If so, we go back to my previous question of why not ask the school districts to not have borders and you can pull from all other areas. Would that not level playing field? No because many public schools wouldn’t draw the students without football let alone with football. I know of people who relocated to attend Prep, Malvern and Lower Merion (2) personally.

    @JordanKing Bethlehem Freedom had a legitimate chance to win that game. I thought they would. Why does that game not quelch the argument? Is it because Prep still won? Is it only fair system is Prep looses and not be competitive, you all keep saying the games aren’t? I guess outside of Philadelphia HS football was about the town. In Philadelphia students are from all over and we came together as a team, wait almost like the college and the real world. How is this a moral issue? Value can possibly be argued, but please share how this is immoral.

  296. FrankG says:

    @Jordan King. Clearly, GV should not have been ranked #1. Some people get mesmerized by lots of points scored against weak teams. Think of Central York last year. Based on their games against SJP, Bethlehem Freedom should have been ranked ahead of GV. Same for Mount Lebanon.

    SJP lost to a public school earlier this year, as they did in 2019 (the last normal season). What you’re asking for is throwing all the Catholic schools and the public schools in big cities (at least Philly) out of the PIAA since their students/players don’t come from one “hometown.” I have no idea what you mean about values and morals being long lost. Are you talking about the PIAA? Or are you suggesting values and morals reside in “hometowns” and the their public high schools but not in cities or in non-boundary schools?

  297. FrankG says:

    “There is a reason why they call it the 6a penna. state, penna st 6a pennsylvania st football playoffs because u have to be should be from the state of pennsylvania”

    Your statement is confusing. No, there is no rule stating all players have to be from Pennsylvania. Whether they should be is a matter of opinion, not of law or regulation. There is no point telling Prep people they shouldn’t have students from Jersey; the school has had them from the start. Make your case to the PIAA.

  298. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, I totally agree with you on that point. Top talent is down everywhere in the state. I read in a recent Mike White chat that last year’s WPIAL class sent the fewest players ever to Power 5 programs (six?).

    WPIAL Guy, those are solid picks. In 3A, I’ve seen Wyomissing play a few times and much like last year in the finals and Middletown and Berks Catholic, previously, their run-heavy wing-T is often at a disadvantage when they play more balanced programs. Surprised none of them have mimicked Southern Columbia and modernized their attacks to include more passing options. I will say that last I checked it was supposed to pour on Saturday and that might affect things. I ran the wing-T in high school and believe it or not, even though it’s run-based, it’s a tough offense to execute in inclement weather. Lots of movement in the backfield, two pulling guards, etc., tends to bog things down. I do think it ends up a competitive game, either way.

    I think 6A is also competitive. Best game of the weekend might be in 4A. It would be nice for McDevitt to deliver a win for district 3. Our district reps have lost 10 of their last 11 trips to the finals and no one has won a state title in the top half of the classifications (now, 4A/5A/6A) since Central Dauphin back in 2011.

  299. Football1 says:

    D3 Mike’s comments about boundary and non-boundary schools are spot on. To think that the public school coaches and players are not trying hard enough is truly asinine thinking. It is true, having 1 or 2 stud athletes not attend their public school and enroll in a non-boundary school would change the whole makeup of that team. There is nothing wrong with a parent or child deciding to attend a private school, it is totally their choice for their future. The problem lies with the fair competition between the two programs. You’re lying to yourself if you feel it’s a level playing field. I still feel the best football for PA would be the top publics for a title and the top privates for a title. Then you’ll have apples for apples may the best team win

  300. Jordan King says:

    GV got smacked by St Joe’s. All that undefeated number one in the state crap goes out the window against these college programs I mean high schools. This happens every year and it’s a shame. At least Bethlehem Freedom gave the prep a run for their money. Would love to see a state wide public only playoff. Just to see which town truly has the best talent. Isn’t that what high school football os all about? Representing your hometown. The values and morals are long lost.

  301. Wpialguy says:

    State final previews
    2a Serra will be overwhelmed. SC wins big. 42-10

    3A wyomissing is one dimensional. Running on Central Valley will be tough. CV wins a low scoring affair 17-7

    4A. Admittedly don’t know much about Mcdevitt, but Aliquippa will hold heir own. I think Mcdevitt wins something like 28-21

    5A Penn trafford will be overwhelmed by the size and speed of Imhotep. Imhotep wins 35-7

    6a i want mount Lebanon to compete with SJP, but i don’t see it happening. They may hang with them for a quarter or two. 35-17 prep.

    1a don’t know much about either team but would like to see red bank valley win as d9 hasn’t been to a final since 1990.

  302. 4th&Forever says:

    Frank and McD, I’m a relative newcomer to the area (23 years) so I’ll defer to your superior knowledge on the history. What I do know is a disproportionate number of top college recruits from SE PA go to privates and Imhotep. I don’t think that was the case when CB West was #3 in the country circa 2000. And while D1 schools lose some of their of top players, in D12 Imhotep and the private schools have absolutely decimated pretty much the rest of Philly public school football. That doesn’t happen anywhere else in the state to the degree of SE PA.

    Back to coaching. I used to see a lot of HS football. Occasionally, you’ll see some bad coaching. A little more often, you’ll see things that make you scratch your head. The HFC is the most important person in the program, but there is no magic. Usually, differences in staffs are marginal and might make a touchdown difference or so, but in the end… NFL… NCAA… HS… talent wins.

  303. thetruth says:

    frank g. u did not address any point i made about prep other then say players have come from new jersey for years. so i will identify your nonsense for what it There is a reason why they call it the 6a penna. state, penna st 6a pennsylvania st football playoffs because u have to be should be from the state of pennsylvania. your prep players from 50 years ago up to right now are not grandfatherd in . Ithink if u are playing any championship sport u should. be from that state. did somebody hit u over the head with an oar yrs. ago . saturday every player on mt. lebanon will be from pennslyvania the other team there cant say that. dont u think in your private moments there is a reason why the prep is so much better then everyone else ?Next year lets call the 6a championship game by the new moniker the pennsylvania /new jersey championship . john runyon could hand out the trophy.

  304. Wpialguy says:

    Just as i alluded to earlier in the week, the piaa was not specific enough in counting vo-tech students. PIAA said schools were inconsistent in counting vo-tech students. Enrollment numbers delayed until January.

  305. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike & 4thandforever – both of you guys make some good points about D1 football, my contention is talent is down across the state compared to 20yrs ago, so there are fewer top quality players to go around which exacerbates the issues you raised.

    Here are some thoughts on the 2 games tomorrow

    1A – I thought Canton and Old Forge were the 2 best teams in the bracket, and the winner of that game was the favorite, but Bishop Guillfoyle shut down Canton last week. I also expected Bishop Canevin to win based on District 9’s track record against the WPIAL, and Redbank Valley fell behind 14-0 in the first half, but they scored 23 unanswered points to win 23-14 spoiling a WPIAL sweep in the Western Finals. Rooting for Redbank to win the fist football state title in D9 history, but hard to go against Guilfoyle, there’s no doubt they have played a much tougher schedule than Redbank and I think they win a pretty close game.

    4A – I think these are 2 evenly matched teams and this has the potential to be one of the best games of the weekend, both obviously have lots of speed and athleticism, and most of the skill players for both teams are underclassmen. I give the slight edge to McDevitt, some Aliquippa guys got a little banged up last week against Jersey Shore, and after battles in the WPIAL playoffs against McKeesport and Belle Vernon they may be a little worn down, so I’ll take McDevitt by a TD, but this game could go either way.

  306. Jeff H says:

    @Kyle – I agree with most of your comments about Tep, they overwhelm teams with their size, speed and athleticism, but their offense is very basic, I was at their 12-6 win over PCC back in August, and that game set offensive football back decades, the talent on the field was something to behold, but the offense was horrible by both teams, very basic an unimaginative play calling. I do think Tep would beat the vast majority of 6A teams based on sheer talent alone and as others have mentioned their defense is tremendous, but they are no where near SJP’s level as an overall football team in all 3 phases of the game. Penn Trafford has a very solid defense and are very well coached and I don’t see Tep scoring much offensively against them, PT is not going to do much against Teps defense, so I think this is going to be a pretty low scoring game and closer than a lot of people think, something like 20-10.

  307. Jeff H says:

    @CoalRgnFtballFan – I don’t consider TJ a large school if that’s what you mean, with about 350 boys they are a mid-sized 4a school.

    Being from Pittsburgh and closely following WPIAL football since the 70’s I know the history of small school football in the WPIAL and all those great teams from the decade of the 90’s, but I disagree with you about the lack of depth today in the WPIAL, they don’t have as many great teams or great players as in the past, but each class in the district has several quality teams each year, with the exception of 6A that only has 8 schools and in the next cycle 7 schools Look at 2A this year, there were 4 undefeated teams, and Serra with 1 loss was a #6 seed in the district playoffs, how does that not speak to the level of depth…again, not to confuse depth of very good teams vs. great teams. Another factor in the lack of depth you cite is 6 classes vs. 4, if you combined 1A and 2A in the WPIAL, which is basically what you had with 4 classes, you would have the depth you talk about.

    I am not disagreeing Mt Carmel is very good and an excellent program, and I think they get don’t get the respect they deserve, but lets face it, most of the state wide polls, including Penn Live, are just taking educated guesses and don’t watch film or drill down on these teams to post any true state rankings. For example, I seriously doubt anyone on this board doesn’t think LaSalle is at worst a top 5 team in 6A, and maybe top 3, but Penn Live has them honorable mention, that’s a joke if these polls are trying to rank teams honestly.

  308. mcd 65 says:

    4rth and Forever
    Those non boundry catholic schools located within District 1 always drew players away from Public schools as well as the inter-ac schools. Years ago when those same Catholic schools had boundaries [assigned parishes] they connected throughout the region. In essence ,having so fewer catholic schools with half or more of the students they used to have is no different from now except if they recruit its also against each other. Bonner had 3000 boys then, now they play in 4A.

  309. D3 Mike says:

    I might be right, I might be wrong, but “the results on the field” are irrelevant to my contention that D1 is down because more talent has drifted from the D1 publics into the PCL & Inter-AC. Whether or not North Penn would have beaten PCC in 2016 if D12 weren’t in the bracket is a non sequitur. It’s not about losing on the field. It’s about losing the recruiting wars. And bleeding just 1-2 players a year (and increasingly, losing them in 7th & 8th & 9th grade) can make all of the difference when your goal is to compete for a state title.

    The D1 publics simply don’t have the talent they had 20 years ago because college doesn’t cost what it did 20 years ago, the competition for scholarships isn’t what it was 20 years ago, the PCL and the Inter-AC powers are far more visible, regionally, than they were 20 years ago, and family/player movement is far higher than it was 20 years ago. There’s a reason the transfer rule was implemented in 2018, not 1998. Because of population density (thank you 4thAndForever), pedigree, and the number of suitable alternatives, Greater Philadelphia sees a lot of player movement. That’s why D1 publics are down. It’s also down in basketball, field hockey, you name it. The notion that 64 school districts in 5A and 6A, ALL can’t find competent football coaches or that NONE of the 64 communities in SE PA have “a commitment to winning” is one part insulting, one part asinine. States with dominant non-boundary programs have weaker public programs. States with weak private school options still maintain thriving public programs. The same is true within states, districts, and counties. This is not rocket science so there’s no need for these quaint, bootstrapping remedies.

    P.S. the Wyomissing example omitted the facts that 1) they’ve never had to face a Catholic school in the state playoffs, and 2) they’ve appeared in back-to-back state finals during the cycle when Bishop McDevitt, Berks Catholic, Allentown Central Catholic, and Bethlehem Catholic all volunteered up into 4A. Wyomissing does a tremendous job but 3A isn’t 6A and Berks County isn’t Bucks County. “Quakertown should just do what Wyomissing does” is a simplistic way of viewing things.

  310. FrankG says:

    @ 4thandForever, You don’t think coaching is a factor at all?

    You have a point, but it’s somewhat at odds with history. Take Delaware County. You don’t have to go back all that far to remember when Bonner and O’Hara had very good teams–and were much bigger schools. (You could go back further and include St. James.) The Prep also drew quite a few students from Delco–including quite a few good football players. I highly doubt that PCL schools now have nearly as many good football players from Delco as they did 10-40 years ago. And do you really think CEC is more of a magnet for football players now than Egan was in the old days?

  311. John H says:

    Frank G,

    I’ll do you one better. Jim Leonard played for the Prep 1927-1930 (they were also very good back then.) Later went on to play at Notre Dame and coach the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    He was born and raised in Pedricktown, NJ. The horror!

  312. The Joneses says:

    @KevinX Thanks that makes sense. Your the rules expert in my opinion.

  313. 4thAndForever says:

    D3 Mike pretty much nailed the boundary vs. non-boundary issue in D1 and D12. The reason the rest of the state doesn’t have the same issue is population density. Non-boundary schools in SE PA have a huge population to draw from. They don’t have to siphon off that many kids from each individual publics to have a huge positive impact on their program. Implying kids don’t work as hard, or the coaching isn’t as good at publics as it is at non-boundary schools is a slap in the face to those kids and coaches busting their tails at those boundary programs. Sports are talent driven and the non-boundaries have a disproportionate amount of the top talent. The majority of top NFL prospects from SE PA played for non-boundary schools. That wasn’t true 20 years ago. Despite the fact they play in D12, many of the top catholic programs… Wood, LaSalle, Connell-Egan, etc. are located in D1 towns, not Philly, so they are pulling players from both D1 and D12. There’s a reason the same D12 non-boundary schools are in the hunt year after year, and it’s not coaching and desire.

  314. The Joneses says:

    @ndlaky You are hilarious. Wait you heard.. Is that your basis. Too funny. Who knows the mans salary and motive for what he accepted. What business man wouldn’t accept a lower salary to get a start with an employer where the future earning potential and growth is far beyond where he currently is. He’s been promoted twice already and is now being considered for the HC position. Not to mention he’s an attorney also. I am not even going to get into the rest. If you don’t think history matters in the conversation and all that matters is today. I will stop there.

    @Kyle I have watched a few Imotep games VS LaSalle and came away with the same feeling. The defense is extraordinary. The best offense they had was under Brent Gordan as OC.

  315. FrankG says:


    You posted as if you were offering the breaking news that Kyle McCord slept in New Jersey when he was a student at SJP, suggesting that you are among the few who don’t know that the Prep has had players from Jersey for many decades. So I offered myself as an example. I could have cited Steve Quinn who went on to play at Notre Dame or John Reid, now in the NFL. The fact that my case was 50 years ago simply illustrates that this isn’t recent,. I brought up the rowers because some seem to think it’s only or mainly football players who come to the Prep from Jersey. I don’t assume for a second people are interested in my case per se, but it’s perhaps useful to identify nonsense for what it is.

  316. Wpialguy says:

    Jeff H, excellent post about the depth of the wpial. Wpial may not have the individual talent they once did, but they do still have a depth of quality teams.

  317. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    I’m not 100% sure of this, more like 90%, but I believe that if a team is eligible to move down, they can only move back down one classification from where they are playing during the current two year cycle. This is regardless of what the school’s next cycle enrollment figures are (if lower). So in Wood’s case, they would only be eligible to move down to 5A, not 4A or whatever their lower enrollment figures may come in at. Obviously, if they have an overall male recruitment (haha) boom, and their overall male enrollment hits the 6A parameters, then they’ll stay at 6A.

    To answer your question, 5A, unless they decide to stay at 6A (which I would highly doubt).

  318. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ Jeff H.
    First, I specifically say “at least at the small school level”, I don’t consider TJ a small school, do you? A one off such as Penn Trafford doesn’t speak to depth of quality per class. I provide specific examples of teams played, by Farrell in 1996, that all offered a challenge equal to or greater than that of SCA in the state final. Therefore, at that time, an argument could be made that maybe 4/5 of the best single A teams in PA were in the WPIAL. In 1996 Rochester beat Farrell, Farrell beat Duquesne by 14, South Fayette 14-12 in OT and Riverview 26-25. That is the depth I am referring to. If I used an example of a one off winning district 7 and playing in a state final, such as Avonworth in 2019, does that speak to quality AA depth in the WPIAL? Avonworth’s average score against all WPIAL teams was 36-10 and specifically in the playoffs it was 38-13,41-14,28-6 – meaning they for the most part cruised through district 7. Avonworth’s most competitive game was in the western final against Wilmington 33-21 prior to being dismantled by SCA in the final 74-7. SCA on the other hand played arguably better competition in districts against Mount Carmel (49-0) and most certainly against Richland (49-27), heck even Upper Dauphin scored 22 (I know some came against the reserves). That example displays a large discrepancy between the rugged battles that Farrell and Rochester used to have week in and week out in the WPIAL of the 90’s and early 2000’s as compared to today.

    I’m putting the cart in the front of the horse a bit. You mention Serra Catholic and how they won the WPIAL offers a look at depth. But if they are Mercy Ruled this weekend and SCA has played multiple teams of higher caliber throughout the playoffs then how does Serra Catholic provide an argument for WPIAL AA depth? Again, I’m not saying that does happen, I’m just asking the question. As I stated above, there was a time that WPIAL depth at the small school level was tremendous. The road to a WPIAL title was awash in nail biters, defensive battles and OT antics. And the winner of the West often was treated to a state final game that was no more competitive than what they had already played numerous times during the regular season and/or WPIAL playoffs. That is the depth I’m talking about. I’m not saying the WPIAL hasn’t won state titles in all 6 classes – they should – they are the largest district. Depth, per class, is what I’m talking about.

    Lastly, in no way am I saying that quality isn’t down statewide, but it seems people still want to use the WPIAL as the barometer for quality, which I think has faded with the lack of true depth, per class, being displayed on a yearly basis. Again, I focus on small schools. In PAFOOTBALLNEWS rankings Mt Carmel is an honorable mention. They are legitimately a top 3 AA team. No doubt. Yet they are largely ignored because they lose to SCA. On the other hand everyone chatters on about Sto Rox (ranked 9th), Steel Valley (HM), Beaver Falls (6th) and Farrell (3rd) because they score 60 points against teams that just aren’t good. It’s a lack of TRUE depth.

  319. Kyle says:

    @ 215Tep and Anyone other Imhotep person – Laughing at all this talk about Imhotep being able to keep with the 6A, has anyone on this panel watched them play offense? In there offensive scheme which they run compares to one of middle school team. No deep shots, not complicated, nothing but we are bigger and faster than you at 5A.

    Imhotep scored 12,14, 8 against other good programs. They beat up on the bad public league. Please stop with Imhotep is on par with St Joes Prep.

    Watching them against LaSalle was one of the worse offensive displays of football I’ve ever watched.

  320. says:

    hey frank g. no one cares about 50 years ago st. joes was not in the piaa back then. did they wear facemasks back then? no one and i mean no one in penna. cares about st. joes row boats being the best in penna. tell me about coach infante i heard he took a paycut to go coach at temple.because the piaa knows u have players from new jersey and does nothing about it doesnt make it the right thing to do . st joes ,wood and lasalle should all join the inter- ac along with malvern, germantown academy episcopal etc. etc etc. etc.within 10 years there will be no catholic league anyway.the numbers for the other catholic schools will continue to dwinde and go down and down unless they all start taking players from new jersey by the way frank g. how do you think those high schools in new jersey feel about all of this?.frank g. are u up to date with your financial obligations to the athletic funds ? i heard they need another row boat. have a nice day frank g.keep living in your fantasy world.

  321. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X Do you think Wood will elect to go back to 5A or their actual enrollment level of 4A? I’ve contemplated that move for a while now of what they would after moving up voluntarily and then being forced up to 6A.

  322. Wpialguy says:

    I am not buying Aliquippa’s argument about player health. They have 52 kids on their roster. That is more than most 4a schools nowadays. and their linemen are all over 265 pounds. I did not see them saying that it was a safety hazard when their linemen were beating up on schools who don’t have a lineman over 225 pounds, and if there are 50 kids on the roster, is it not the coaches job to rotate them more? It is not like aliquippa has a 1a enrollment with a 1a roster. Some of this frustration stems from them realizing they cannot just line up and beat teams in these top classes. Every team that makes it to the state championship is beat up and mentally tired. It is not just an Aliquippa problem.

    ALiquippa’s argument is that because the success formula was put in place after they voluntarily chose to play up in 3a they should not have to be forced up.

    also, coalregionftbfan… not sure how you did not mention Thomas Jefferson.

    Furthermore, I am wondering when the state is going to go another round and force schools to merge, specifically in the west. One reason why these public schools are not reaching thei potential is that the resources for some of these smaller schools are pitiful. Kids have no competition within the school to better themselves. In beaver county, there are six different high schools within a 10 minute drive of each other, and people wonder why taxes are so high.

  323. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – excellent article, thanks for posting. I agree with Coach Warfield and Dr. Woods, hopefully the PIAA comes to their senses and does not force a small A school to play up 4 classes, regardless of how much success they have. They did the right thing by voluntarily playing up for years and the fact the PIAA seems unwilling to take that into account is ridiculous.

    CoalRgnFtballFan – you don’t consider TJ a perennial contender for a state title, after winning 5 in the last 17 years since 2004? Not as much depth in the WPIAL as in the past? Well how about Penn Trafford winning their first ever district title and advancing to Hershey and Mt Lebanon winning their fist district title in 21 years and advancing to the state final for the first time in school history, How about Serra Catholic, the sixth seed in class 2A, winning their fist district title since 2007 and then knocking off Farrell last week? The quality of play is down in the WPIAL just like it is across most of the state, but the WPIAL is still the deepest district in the state by a wide margin (and also the largest to be fair), what other district has had 9 different teams win state titles since the move to 6 classes in 2016 (Jeanette, Steel Valley, Beaver Falls, Quaker Valley, Aliquippa, Central Valley, TJ (2), Pine Richland (2) and Penn Hills), so to say it’s not as deep as it used to be is just not supported by the facts.

    @Foelman – I totally agree with you, the play in District 1 has dropped off dramatically since their heyday in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, and the decline started well before District 12 joined the PIAA. Part of it is demographics, how good would Downington or CB be if the school districts didn’t split into separate high schools. The fact is D1 would have been hard pressed to win a big school title the last 15 years without the PCL being in the mix, the only 2 years I can think of they might have won were in 2009 when LaSalle beat State College in the final, and in 2016 when North Penn lost to SJP in the semi-finals, that team might have beaten PCC in the finals. Other than that D1 would not have won a big school title any other year, so to blame their demise strictly on D12 and the PCL is not supported by the results on the field.

  324. Kevin X says:

    Long article, but worth the read……

  325. Kevin X says:

    @ Wpialguy

    Imhotep will not be forced to move up. They do not have the required 6 “success points.” They did not play last fall, so no play, no points. Of course I suppose they could still volunteer to move up to 6A. It does appear that Wood will be moving back down to 5A. Their zero success points over the past 2 seasons will allow them to do that regardless of their number of transfers. The only tweak that the PIAA made to the original Competition formula. Same point tho, that can voluntarily stick around 6A for the next 2 years if they choose. I am already looking forward to the next 2 years of D12 5A championship games.

    So why shouldn’t Aliquippa be forced to move up to 5A?? it appears that they will have well more than the minimum of 3 transfers over the past two years, and they do have the success point, seems fairly straight forward. That equals moving up. I am unaware of a clause in the rule that if you don’t have a band you don’t have to move up. Was that snuck in when I wasn’t looking??

  326. Foleman says:

    Jeff H, I watched the Downingtown West/Central Dauphin playoff game a few years back and came away thinking how poor is District 1 6A football when DWest is the champ. DWest physically looked like Midgets against CD, they had a good QB, a good Tailback and 1 good lineman as I recall and had the most porous defense I have ever seen for a District 6A champ giving up 65 points in that game. District 1 football was much better years ago. I remember in 2009 I watched Archbishop Wood score in the last minute to beat a tough Pottsgrove team. In the 90’s District 1’s CB West won 4 large School Championships and lost a 5th in the last seconds. When Strath Haven won 2 state championships in 1999 and 2000 and the 2002 team with Dan Connor lost to Paul Poz’s Hopewell squad, you heard the same complaints about Strath Haven back then as you hear about St. Joe Prep today, where are they getting all these players from. I can see the Prep and Imhotep getting the best of the best in the City because of demographics. I’m not buying it in the suburbs, Malvern may get the pick of the litter but 1 kid from a public school leaving doesn’t make a program. In Berks County, we have Wyomissing, a 3A school that has won a state Championship and came close on a few others while defeating a who’s who, both Public and Private in football-Imhotep, Southern Columbia, Aliquippa, Berks Catholic, Neumann Goretti, Scranton Prep, Middletown etc So don’t say it cant be done in District 1 with the right coach and a commitment to winning.

  327. Wpialguy says:

    Jeff H hit the nail on his head with most posts. Although I don’t have sympathy for aliquippa having to move up, I do not believe they should be forced up to 5a. This is a school that doesn’t even have a band. I think keeping them in 4A is the right move for this cycle. In 4A they can still play other beaver county schools. In 5a they’d enter a section with 4 times the enrollment and 4 times the socioeconomic status.

    Serra Catholic has definitely had a magical season and playing for that coach is a great story.

    Aliquippa lulls teams to sleep with their linemen and as soon as they get an opening they strike.

    A key theme in a lot of these games is turnovers. Turnovers have killed a few teams in the last few weeks. Can’t win a state championship with 3 turnovers.

    Is Imhotep being forced to 6A next cycle? I know ECP is rumored to be forced up. I am excited to see the wpial enrollments come out. There have been significant demographic changes and problems in the east hills of Pittsburgh and I think schools like Penn hills, gateway, Woodland Hills, and west Mifflin are bleeding students to charter schools

  328. Jeff H. says:

    @ Dave Mika – yeah, being a WPIAL guy I know Serra was seeded sixth in the district 7 playoffs, Tweeter made it sound like their record was 7-6, that’s why I responded the way I did. Their defense had 6 turnovers again last week in the game against Farrell, so that makes 20 turnovers their defense has forced in the last 3 weeks, all against very good competition, will be very interesting to see how their defense fares against 4 time defending champ SCA.

  329. The Joneses says:

    @Jay I accept your apology and now I know you’re a good man. I know how these things can pull at you. Be well my friend.

    @Jeff H. You’re dropping some gems today sir.

  330. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    As I had said multiple times before, all the teams being talked about as title contenders in AA from the Western side of the state are currently MIA. Farrell, Steel Valley, Sto Rox are all watching from home this weekend. Suspect schedule, sorry, the WPIAL is not as deep as it once was. There are two consistent contenders for state titles from the WPIAL, Central Valley and Aliquippa (at least at the small school level – I know I know quips play up). Farrell is solid, but Wilmington is not a barometer this year and beating Kennedy whoever 75-0 doesn’t say much when that team suited like 15 kids. When I speak of WPIAL depth I harken back to the ‘olden’ days when Farrell was in WPIAL and had weekly battles against the likes of Rochester, Duquesne, Riverview, Monaca etc. When Farrell made the state title in 95/96 those teams were men. They were tested. They knew how to win. At this point in the season I believe Mt Carmel may be the ‘real’ # 2 in AA in PA. Richland, if they got rolling can score a lot of points in a hurry and could challenge for #2.

    Serra looks ok. A bit offensively challenged. I would expect SCA to do a bit better job than Farrell could in 2 primary aspects. 1) SCA won’t have 15 penalties. 2) SCA won’t turn the ball over 6 times.

    I’d imagine that will be all it takes. Richland had a far superior offense to that of Serra. Richland scored 14 points against the SCA starters. Can the Serra D hold SCA under 14 points, because I’d imagine it will take one heck of an effort for Serra to produce more than 14.

  331. Paul from Philly says:

    @Frank G

    Thank you.

  332. D3 Mike says:

    Also, I’m in no way saying we should or shouldn’t have two championships or that private schools are doing anything wrong. Just pointing out what to me is a clear negative correlation between the number and quality of private programs and the the number and quality of adjacent public programs.

    Prep, Wood, Malvern etc. are far more visible and dominant, statewide, than they were 15 years ago; at the same time, D1 publics are down.

    Berks Catholic is nowhere near the same level they were a few years ago; meanwhile, Exeter and Governor Mifflin field their best teams in program history.

    Pittsburgh Catholic and private schools siphon off less talent from that city’s suburban football powers; those suburban powers perform better in the state playoffs.

    SCA is the best public in the state; SCA also does not have a McDevitt or Malvern, let alone both, 10 minutes away.

    I could go on. Again, no value judgements. Just articulating the inverse relationship.

  333. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, to be clear, I never said anyone feared PCC. What I said was that if PCC were as dominant in the WPIAL as the elite non-boundary programs were in the east, you’d probably hear more clamoring statewide for different championships for boundary and non-boundary. i.e. if it were PCC vs Prep every year in the 6A final there would be more momentum for a change.

  334. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Welcome back!!!

    Spitting hairs here, or maybe just getting overly technical, but Lansdale Catholic won the AA Championship in 2004, a year after North Penn’s win. They were a member of District 1 at the time. So I would consider that District One’s last state football championship. Kind of ironic by a now District 12 team 🙂

    Maybe, maybe not, some thoughts/opinions/rants on Aliquippa, competition formula and District One later…..

  335. Buddy says:


    Disagree, I don’t think D1 football is WAY down the past 20 years. Their demise is absolutely related to D12 entering the fray in 2008.

    BTW, North Penn went to the state final in 2011, losing to central Dauphin 14 to 7, had to get by LaSalle first, which they did.

    When they flipped the brackets a few years ago, I believe D12 faces off against the D11 champ. However, the D1 champ eventually

    has to play the D12 champ in the eastern final (state semi). Tha publics aren’t down, they just can’t compete against the privates.

  336. FrankG says:

    @James Laky Where to start? I slept every night of the week in New Jersey when I was a player at the Prep over 50 years ago–as did many other Prep students, most of whom were not football players. Half the rowers in the Prep’s national champions 8-oared boat last year were from Jersey. The Prep doesn’t hide this, and the PIAA has always known it.

  337. Jeff H. says:

    @ Buddy and Everyone Else Complaining about Prep/D12 – District 1 Football is WAY down compared to 20yrs ago, is that strictly because D12 was invited to join the PIAA in 2008, or are there other factors involved? Let’s face it, DI has not won a state championship in any class since 2003 when North Penn beat PCC, which was 5yrs before D12 joined the PIAA, so football in that district has been trending down for many years. Remember a few years ago when the PIAA flipped the playoff brackets so D12 played D7 in the semi-finals, and most people assumed D1 would get to the finals, but their district champs lost to Harrisburg and then Central Dauphin the following year. You can blame the PCL/D12 all you want, but D1 would have struggled to win state titles for the last decade or more even if D12 wasn’t in the picture.

    @D3 Mike – no school with any pedigree in the WPIAL fears PCC, just the opposite, all the publics take great pride in beating them, and many of them have success from time to time like PR, NA and this year Mt Lebo (and before the move to 6 classes schools like Penn Hills, Gateway, Woodland Hills and McKeesport just to name a few routinely had success against PCC) It’s hard for me to ever see PCC leaving the WPIAL to play in a “non-boundary” league, this is more of a SEPA/D12 issue than either PCC or ECP from the western side of the state.

  338. David Mika says:

    Jeff H. That is their seed in the District. Serra Catholic was the sixth seed.

  339. Jeff H. says:

    @Tweeter – where did you get the idea Serra Catholic is 7-6, their actual record is 14-1, with the loss coming in the last game of the regular season against Steel Valley, who had the leading rusher in the WPIAL. They beat some very good teams in the WPIAL playoffs, then just beat undefeated Farrell last week. Their defense is a turnover machine, forcing 5 against previously undefeated Sto-Rox in the semi-finals, then following that up with 9 turnovers against Beaver Falls in the WPIAL final at Heinz Field. They are also the feel good story of this weekend and on a mission playing for their coach, he was diagnosed with a rare neurological condition several months ago and is coaching from the sidelines in a wheelchair, tune into the game on PCN on Friday afternoon and I’m quite certain the announcers will be talking about the coach. With all that being said I don’t give them much of a chance against SCA, but just the fact they made it to Hershey is quite an accomplishment.

  340. Jeff H. says:

    I kinda gave up on this site for the year when we weren’t able to post for a week. Regarding Aliquippa, I agree they draw players from other districts, let’s face it, if you lived in the Beaver Valley and could go to either Ambridge or Aliquippa which school would you want to play for. I knew they would still be competitive in 4A, but I didn’t think they would beat Belle Vernon in the WPIAL final, especially the way they dominated them.

    I went to their game on Friday night against Jersey Shore, they were on the ropes a little bit in the first half, I don’t think they got a first down until midway through the 2nd quarter and at one point trailed 10-0, it clearly looked like they had a hangover from winning the WPIAL title, you go from playing at Heinz Field to a high school in the middle of Cambria County. Jersey Shore got too conservative in the first half with a 10-0 lead, they had a fourth and 3 on the Quips 35 yard line midway through the 2nd quarter, and instead of going for it they punted. The Quips subsequently had to punt, but then held Jersey and forced them to put with about 3 minutes to go in the half. After not getting anywhere running the ball the Quips opened up their passing attack late in the first half, and finally scored on fourth and goal from the 1 yard line on the last play of the first half to trail 10-7. That score totally changed momentum going into the locker room, Jersey should have been ahead by a lot more than 3 points with the way they dominated the first quarter and a half. Aliquippa got the 2nd half kick, and on the first play from scrimmage threw an 84 yard TD pass to a wide open receiver, then on Jersey Shore’s next possession they threw a pick 6 and the floodgates opened as the Quips outscored them 34-6 to win going away.

    Aliquippa will be competitive in 5A, but to force them to play there is ridiculous IMO since they voluntarily were already playing up 2 classes, there’s something wrong with the system when it doesn’t take that into account. I’m not so sure their talk is all bluster, we’ll see, I know their new superintendent personally since he was the principal at Woodland Hills for a handful of years before going back to be superintendent at his alma mater this summer, and I would not at all be surprised if you see some lawsuits if they are forced to play in 5A.

    I agree with D3 Mike, its not a competitive issue, they have one of the biggest lines in the WPIAL and skill and speed galore, I just don’t think its right to force them up any further than 4A when they have a total of 117 boys in the high school. Many of their players do go both ways, which is still pretty common in 5A and even in 6A in the WPIAL, both of Mt Lebanon’s stars play both ways (Heidenreich and Tecza, as does Cade Yacamelli from Penn Trafford). I think their game with McDevitt on Thursday will be very competitive and I give a slight edge to McDevitt but would not surprise me at all if the Quips win.

  341. Matt says:

    Prep is not even close to drawing 85-90% of its team from Jersey. The Prep has drawn many students from New Jersey for decades because of its academic reputation. Yes, there have been some prominent athletes in that bunch too, but the majority of the students and student athletes are from PA. It’s sad that people are “looking forward to the demise of [our] program”. I can understand frustration at ending an undefeated season with a mercy rule to a perennial state champ. And I can understand frustration at the perceived boundary/non-boundary inequities. But the Prep’s ascension to the level of a national program is a bright spot for PA football. Let someone knock us off, maybe that will lead to demise. Swing along with the crimson. Swing along with the gray.

  342. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, most of D1 programs compete in 5A and 6A and no one outside of D12 or D7 has won in those classifications in recent years. I’d like to see more D1 vs. D3 vs. D11 regular season games since those are often the most competitive match ups. Wilson, Coatesville, GV, Parkland, Central Dauphin, Harrisburg etc. are all on a level playing field — but none of those programs are going to be competitive with Prep, Wood, Imhotep, etc. on a regular basis anytime soon. The non-boundary schools in the east simply siphon off too much talent.

    Frankly, if PCC were even half as dominant as the private schools in the east we’d probably have a public-private state championship split by now. The problem is that once every 5 years, a Pine Richland or a North Allegheny is good enough to make everyone forget that most boundary programs have no realistic shot.

  343. 378 says:

    This is by far the best post regarding the complaints about non-boundary teams.

    “Foleman says:
    December 6th, 2021 at 10:59 am
    When is District 1 football going to step up and play with the Big boys? District 1 has 1/3 of the 6A schools in the entire state-(32 schools) Same with 5A-(25 schools) Yet every year you see D1’S 6A and 5A Schools come up empty. Why? Many of these schools have incredible facilities and resources. Several have 1000+ boys in the school, are the best athletes not playing football at these schools? It should not be hard to find10-20 good football players in schools that should be churning out stud football players. Are the elementary and Jr football numbers down? Where are all the great coaches? You can’t tell me a Mike Pettine or a Jim Algeo would not be able to compete against the rest of the State in today’s world . Would love to hear some feedback on this.”

  344. WPIALguy says:

    It was reported Altoona put a bid in for the state championships. Not sure that would be better than Hersey, and yes beaver stadium would be way too big and the playing surface is grass so it wouldn’t be the best playing conditions by the last game. Maybe somewhere like Bucknell?

  345. James Laky says:

    foleman u cant be serious u left out the elephant in the room no one right now in the east can beat the prep they recruit thru the roof . they have showcases for future players at desingnated sites. they take players from out of state i.e. new jersey trotters kid and the defensive end both division one recruits. they have a athletic fund where past players contribute money every year towards paying for a elite recruit .kyle mcclure last rears qb who is at ohio st slept every nite of the week in new jersey. the piaa is scared to do anything because they are afraid this could end up in court if they force separate playoffs uponthe.. privates and charters. no one can just walk into imotep and go to school .they have a lottery system for all students unless u are a athlete basketball and football players seem to go to the head of the class wink wink.the . the other disadvantaged black youth that are only students dont get in. those students that dont get in are removed from the list they haveto reapply the next year .mike pettine and jim algeo would compete against them but would not win in todays landscape. garnet valley had one heck of a public school team and got steamrolled by prep. we are not talking apples for apples . st joe prep imotep etc. are nothing more thena.. traveling aau team. playoff finals should not be played at hershey no one goes to the game except parents brothers sisters etc the stadium exceot for rare games is empty. very little atmosphere stale if u will. play the championship games 6a 5a 4a 3a 2a 1a at the higherseededee teams stadium . u will have a sellout and terrific atmosphere. but that makes to much sense and we are talking in the end about the PIAA.

  346. Jay says:


    While I stick to the points I was making about the Prep and recruiting in general, I do apologize for the personal attacks. I don’t know you from Adam and have no right to assume your character. That’s unlike me. Please accept my apology.


  347. Paul from Philly says:


    85 to 90% from Jersey???????? Did you used to work for CNN??

  348. Buddy says:


    Back in the day D1 was the big boys. There was a D1 school in the state finals every year. Then D12 joined the PIAA (around 2004 or 2005 something like that).

    This allowed the private schools ( SJP, LaSalle, A. Wood etc) to play in all sports in the PIAA state playoff system.

    Publics can’t compete with the privates for the aforementioned reasons. What they should do is form an all-star team from

    D1 to play the champ from D12. That gives us recruiting power from 4 counties (let the privates recruit from 4 states).

    Those games would be competitive. Barring that, it’s the same ol same ol.

  349. Kevin X says:

    You guys do realize that St. Joe Prep did get beat by a public boundary school this year.

  350. Foleman says:

    When is District 1 football going to step up and play with the Big boys? District 1 has 1/3 of the 6A schools in the entire state-(32 schools) Same with 5A-(25 schools) Yet every year you see D1’S 6A and 5A Schools come up empty. Why? Many of these schools have incredible facilities and resources. Several have 1000+ boys in the school, are the best athletes not playing football at these schools? It should not be hard to find10-20 good football players in schools that should be churning out stud football players. Are the elementary and Jr football numbers down? Where are all the great coaches? You can’t tell me a Mike Pettine or a Jim Algeo would not be able to compete against the rest of the State in today’s world . Would love to hear some feedback on this.

  351. FrankG says:

    @WPIALguy I would love to see the finals moved around the state from year to year: Scranton, Erie, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Altoona, Philly, etc. but wonder if if would be practical to have everyone go to, say, Scranton or Erie, especially if there was no participating team from within 75 miles of the site. State College is central, but the crowds would look awfully small in Beaver Stadium–even if they were larger than usual. Is there a field there with a capacity of 10-15 thousand?

  352. Wpialguy says:

    On another note, I guess the PIAA is taking bids for hosting the state championships. Is there any way Hershey isn’t picked again? Or where would everyone want to see the state finals played?

  353. WPIALguy says:

    I just think the PIAA cannot get out of its own way. It’s goal should be to grow sports and give these kids publicity and attention. For the PIAA semi finals, I couldn’t stream any of the games without paying for a subscription, and their social media presence is terrible. They should have people at each game posting updates, or videos, but they tweeted one tweet after all the games were finished saying the brackets were updated. The PIAA acts more like a governmental organization than a governing body for high school sports. Everything they do is stale and outdated. They need to really think about how they run things and need to do more do get communities, athletes, and sports fans involved. They hide behind subscription services because ticket sales are down…. Well why are ticket sales down??? Is anything ever promoted? Or maybe it’s cause two of the state championships are played on a Thursday??? Or Hershey isn’t exactly a destination??? I don’t know if this rant makes sense, I’m just tired of seeing the same things from them over and over.

  354. Wpialguy says:

    What’s funny is that schools report their own enrollments and are not double checked by the PIAA. I don’t think the PIAA does a great job of telling schools parameters and how to count either. I know out west here there have been schools who over count because the PIAA parameters are confusing when it comes to kids enrolled in Vo-tech programs. Seems easy to manipulate numbers and I don’t doubt certain schools do their best to undercount as no one checks the numbers reported.

  355. FrankG says:

    @ Kyle, While the Prep has always drawn students from Jersey, your statement that 85-90% of its players are from Jersey is ridiculous–right up there with some coach’s claim a few years ago that they had players from four states.

  356. #Tep215 says:

    Imhotep is SJP only comp. Only team in the state that has more talent and D1 players than them. PIAA need to make 6A a non boundary playoff system with all big branded football programs competing. The weakest program in PA is Southern Columbia idk how they continue to play @ 2A and mercy rule every one they play they should @ least be 4A wit Quips. But if PIAA puts all the big dawgs in one division and get rid of East n west sides and let teams play by ranking it would work. Now imagine Lasalle Tep SJP n Wood all in 6A playoffs all in different parts of the bracket it would also feature schools like PR PCC North Ally etc … PIAA current playoff system kills the competition tbh SJP plays its hardest game in basic Philadelphia Catholic playoffs going against wood n Lasalle plus a national schedule most other districts teams don’t play no where near comp that high. Jus like everybody had Mifflin ahead of Tep they never played out of state comp or even national teams so there comp level is basic. Same goes 4 PCC they never play out of state comp idk why they play the same local comp year in and year out that doesn’t help a program that keeps them basic.

  357. The Joneses says:

    @Jay I am sure you’re not really into back stories or divulging sins. Far from arrogant. An apologist for certain. Not part of me almost tempted to give you my story, I read in a good book once to not cast your pearls to swine.

    Never a victim and raise my sons not to be. I know first had want it means to watch a great season get crushed by Prep. Been there done that and ask no one to shed a tear. I was taught to punch the bully back not create a campaign against it. I respect what Prep does. What’s more of victim than to blame the PIAA and not work with the districts who can change the borders. You don’t want to be borderless for a multitude of reasons no matter how much that would even the playing field. You don’t want an even playing field. You want one created and catered to you. What’s interesting is you or no one else provided a real argument or response to removing the boundaries. I believe it’s because you know it still won’t make a difference because those schools are better. It’s why people from 8 counties and two states send sons there who NEVER play football or basketball.

    I love how it always gets to name calling.
    Enjoy your evenings

  358. Kyle says:

    I think the problem with these teams are these kids aren’t from the state of PENNSYLVANIA. Prep fields a team were 85-90% of there kids are from Jersey, heck there head coach and coaches have been from NJ.

    LaSalle & Imhotep recruit whomever it wants from wherever it wants.

    I think what people are trying to say is how much more fun would be to watch two public teams, with towns on there backs, duke it out for a chance to a state championship(which they would remember for the rest of there life). Instead you have a town play a city and state for the chance of winning a PIAA CHAMPIONSHIP.

    Let all the Philly Catholic teams play in the Inter-Ac. Or let them become independent, play teams from all over isn’t that the reason why you go there.

  359. Kevin X says:

    Following up on D3 Mike’s earlier post, and Jeff H’s post from a few weeks ago, is an article regarding Aiiquippa’s situation about possibly getting bumped up to 5A for the next two years. This may have been posted before, but still worth the read or read again from when originally published, since the Quips have now won their way into this situation. Based on their win the other night, and regardless what they do on Thursday, it appears that they will be moved up to 5A. This may sound harsh, but I have little sympathy for their plight, for numerous reasons, despite how I feel the success factor has been implemented, that is, as in a complete disgrace. If they are moved up, I do hope they follow through on their threats, but I believe they are nothing more than noise and posturing.

  360. ThatGuyFromPhilly says:

    @The Joneses, Football1 doesn’t seem to understand the fact that all of District 12 is open enrollment. Hell Kensington could have kids from every neighborhood in the city but he’d still ignore that. Reminds me of that reporter from the Delco Times who can’t get this straight either.

    Look it does create some issues but so does some of the schools that give kids IEP’s so they won’t count against a schools enrollment. There are a number of issues with the current setup, it’s not perfect but instead of celebrating the kids seasons, this time of year brings out the poor me crowd.

    Again good luck to everyone playing this weekend and congratulations to all who participated this season. These kids have been through enough over the past year and a half.

  361. The Joneses says:

    @Football1 so you mean to tell me you don’t see the hypocrisy in complaining about the blowouts now when there wasn’t any complaints previously? You and I both know if GV wins or blows out Prep this isn’t a conversation. NG lost by what 42 pts I think. They are a private school. SC has been mercy ruling teams in the playoffs for years right? So does this rule only apply to some? I never dared say I have the answer. I just have the mind to challenge the thoughts long before I even had a playing interest. Why does the PIAA need to change why not appeal to the districts to remove the boundaries that they are legally able to do? Then you get into some real interesting questions.

  362. FrankG says:

    D3 Mike Your memory of 2015 is better than mine. My main point was that Imhotep has won all of one state championship. They imploded in a few championship games. Who know what would have happened this year if P-R hadn’t changed coaches and Mifflin hadn’t inexplicably tripped up?

  363. Jay says:


    Enough with the apologist attitude. I bet you’re an arrogant and chronic “victim” IRL too, or at least you come off that way. Also I’m sure you’re biased towards SJP in some way. Can’t blame you if you are. Front runners gonna front run. Even if their team has unfair advantages.

    The argument goes NO FURTHER than the recruiting capabilities, turning SJP into a perennial all-star team, even when “they’re young and vulnerable” or whatever slag you mentioned below. Thirty seconds if my life I’ll never get back.

    These teams DO NOT BELONG in state tournaments filled with teams with actual jurisdictions. What sort of denial makes someone overlook such a simple fact?

    The PIAA needs to make a change. I don’t know a single person personally who thinks it’s fair. Maybe some people here, I don’t know and don’t really care that much. To play a long season and go undefeated only to face the inevitable all-star team at the end… gimme a mf’ing break. I cannot wait until the downfall of their program, or the rule changes that result in mounds of salt from the tears of the likes of you and other apologists.

    Aside from that, I hope you all have a wonderful holidays! Glad to be able to post again.

  364. The Joneses says:

    @Buddy. Just as you were sick of the “who did hey play argument”. I’m sick of it all comes down to recruiting. Not that practices and film study and preparation makes a difference. Let’s stop acting like Prep isn’t one of the Top catholic high schools in the country. These kids leave film and practice at 9pm some nights and go home to do homework. They put in work. Just sad man.

    Lets be clear recruiting happens in public schools. Hey you’re great at Lacrosse. You might be good at football. You throw a nice baseball ever consider football. You’re athletic ever consider basketball and football. Oh but wait since they’re already at the school it’s not the same.

    The State of PA doesn’t mandate boundaries the school district does. You don’t want boundaries or want them expanded go to the school district and get that changed.

  365. D3 Mike says:

    Imhotep mercy ruled everyone in the state playoffs in 2015 and has lost all of 1 state playoff game to a program not named Erie Cathedral Prep for the better part of a decade. None of which has anything to do with my statement that under 4 classes Imhotep would just be rolling thru 3A instead of the 5A. Do you disagree with that contention?

  366. Buddy says:


    All correct. Has everything to do with having no boundaries (i.e., ability to recruit).

    Supposedly, they have no athletic scholarships, but they do have academic and “need base” scholarships.

    That can get you a whole lot of players, from all walks of life, on your team.

  367. Football1 says:

    Joneses Just stop it? First GV averaged 40 + points against district 1 public schools. They didn’t play any catholic or private schools and once they did you see the result.
    That Philly guy. District 12 doesn’t need its own league, just a different division if your a non-boundary school. They can still compete for a state title but compete against other non-boundary schools.
    Have any of you played Div 1 football? There is a huge difference between div 1, Div 2, Div 3 talent. Div 1 talent stands out on the field. The difference between schools with no boundaries and public schools is the div 1 talented players. Public schools may have a few Div 2 or 3 players but rarely the true Div 1 talent. Schools like Prep and Tep have several Div 1 players on the team, with other div 2 and 3 abilities. It’s not that difficult to see the difference in talent on the field. Who wants to watch a mercy rule playoff game? Maybe you Philly guys do.
    It’s like watching a little league all-star team play a regular-season team. Not a fun game to watch or even play in.
    Nobody wants to watch a Div 1 team play a Div 2 team, and that’s what you have with non-boundary playing public schools in PA.

    I’ll leave it up to you keyboard geniuses since you have it all figured out.
    Enjoy your mercy rule playoff games

  368. FrankG says:

    Imhotep has never rolled through the playoffs before this year (which isn’t over).

  369. D3 Mike says:

    Also, regarding Aliquippa, I was in this forum two years ago when people made the same arguments that the PIAA was putting kids’ health at risk by moving them up and how it was unrealistic to expect a 1A program to compete in 4A. Based on what I’ve seen on YouTube, though, Aliquippa is bigger than everyone else they’ve played and have dominated many of the teams in 4A, leading me to believe they would be quite competitive in 5A.

    I think they got screwed by the PIAA since they volunteered to play at 3A, originally, so if they deserve an exception, the reason is because they should have been grandfathered into a lower classification. But it’s not because it’s anti-competitive or a safety risk to have them play up based on anything I’ve seen. I would defer to the WPIAL experts on this but 1) Aliquippa doesn’t have the typical 35 man roster, and 2) plenty of players still go to two-ways in 5A.

  370. D3 Mike says:

    I hate the expansion to 6 classes but let’s not pretend as if the competitiveness and final results would be all that different under the old classification system. It would probably be Prep rolling thru the same teams in 4A, Imhotep rolling thru 3A, Central Valley vs Wyomissing rolling into the 2A finals, and Guilfoyle winning their 36th 1A title. Maybe you would squeeze 1 or 2 more quality games out of the state playoffs, since Aliquippa and Southern Columbia would be competitive with whomever they played, but if you worked it out based on prior classifications what we would see would be the same dominant, non-boundary programs dominating, plus the same handful of exceptions from the pedigree public programs.

  371. FrankG says:


    So it’s all about money? Coaching doesn’t have anything to do with it? Players being attracted to a high-profile, very successful program has nothing to do with it?

  372. Kevin X says:

    Some fun with numbers…….

    5 – Number of catholic/private/non boundary schools in state championship games next weekend

    6 – Number of mercy rule games this past weekend (for those of you bad in math, that is exactly half the playoff games played this past weekend)

    8 – Number of teams/schools playing in state championship games next weekend that do not need GPS to find their way to Hershey (again, for those of you mathematically challenged, that is 2/3rds of teams/schools that are part of the Hershey loyalty rewards program)

  373. Buddy says:

    Well, that’s what the ability to recruit will do for you. Best team $ can buy.

  374. ThatGuyFromPhilly says:

    @Football1 you do realize your proposal basically says District 12 go have your own league right? Basically all of District 12 is open enrollment, kids in the city can attend any school they choose in the city. I’m wondering if this was Northeast or Washington in these games instead, would these arguments still be made.

    I saw both games this weekend and the whole DelCo proud thing was fun. Lets leave it at that and congratulate those schools for great seasons.

    Good luck to everyone in the big games next week.

  375. The Joneses says:

    @football. Just stop it. NO ONE would have said that if GV was as great as people said they were and blew out prep like all predictions. GV put up 50 pts in every game of the playoffs except this one. SC does the same. And NG got blown out in their game. Such Hypocrisy.

  376. Football1 says:

    If the game of the prep against Garnet and Tep vs Strath Haven didn’t prove that there needs to be different divisions, then you have no clue about high school football. Who wants to watch blowouts and the end of the season? It’s simple, just have a separate division for private school teams that have no boundaries to draw from. You may even get the inter ac involved for some more competitive games. How many times do you need to see the lopsided victories to realize that it’s not apples for apples as far as competition? The games would be so much more enjoyable to watch a public school team play and then watch the private school compete also in different games. The PIAA needs to take their heads out of the sand and get this done before PA football becomes a thing of the past. Change is good, you just need to open up your minds some. By the way, I don’t have a dog in the fight, either way, just an ex PA football player that sees there is a problem. All four teams had great seasons. Would just like to see one more game from each program . LET’S GET IT RIGHT PIAA

  377. DENNIS PASCOE says:

    Hey guys starting to get nasty here! LOL. Glad Southern is not involved! Can’t wait to see what happens in Hershey. It has been a good year all in all.

  378. phillyboy says:

    Goodness gracious, what the heck happened to Garnet Vallley? A lot of people were talking up GV, saying that they’re a special team, senior laden, on a mission; meanwhile the Prep is down, injured, young and inexperienced. So much for that, eh? I even saw this youtube pregame video (Sports Stream Premium) for the PIAA state semifinals with the man, the myth, the legend Dave Mika (btw, first time I ever saw you Dave, looked good, nice insight) and two other pundits. The one fellow Joe Santoloquito was talking up GV like they were the reincarnation of CB West of the late 90’s. You talk about hype, my lands, I haven’t heard that much puffery since the Jimmy The Greek era, At one point he was gushing over Garnet Valley for over 5 minutes talking about how ‘they come at you in waves upon waves’ and mentioned that although he thought the game would be close, if there were a blow out it would be in GV’s favor. Now in fairness I was eating up what he was saying, not hook, line and sinker but it did tickle the ears, hearing this eloquent praise of the team I was rooting for. Smh, lol. To the contrary, rather than ‘coming in waves’, it was as if they were getting tased, they were essentially paralyzed out there offensively. You got the sense early on that just getting 2 yards required vigorous effort, a demoralizing deal where you’re inclined to bounce at halftime. I tell you right now, I’ll be rooting for Mount Lebanon next week like I’m a citizen of Beirut, ok, but based on what I saw tonight it’s looking like Prep in a laugher, something like 56-7.

  379. EmanD3 says:

    @Kevin X

    Yes, Scranton Prep lost it’s D1 RB on the second series and yes the Neumann Goretti QB was hurt and ineffective….but the Wyo OL dominated the DL on both teams and neither team could figure out the Wing T, which Wyo runs to perfection.

    Scranton Prep was down 14-0, with six minutes gone in the first. SP had just shutout their last two opponents, but gave up 35 pts and 325 rushing…not sure the RB/DB really would have mattered

    NG had 5-6 D1 guys and had just come off a shutout and was giving up 67 yds rushing a game…Wyo had two 100 yd rushers and had about 325 on the ground and mercy ruled NG…not sure the starting qb mattered that much as well…unless they were going to score in the 40’s

    Wyo had the lead ly against CV at half and was down 7 in the fourth. A couple things either way and they could have won that game….but this year’s Central Valley team might even be better than 2020…with 11 mercy rule wins!! However a lot of people don’t realize how good the D for Wyomissing is? But I still think Wyo needs 35 to win next week and I’m not sure CV gives that up…just my opinion

  380. Tweeter says:

    Also prep is going to win by 35+. Yawn. Recruiting doesn’t matter blah blah blah.

  381. Tweeter says:

    What is Serra Catholic’s story? 7 and 6 and in the championship

  382. The Joneses says:

    @BJ. I don’t think any passes were attempted by GV in the second half. If so it was under 5. Prep had JV in with 6:31 in the 4th score 49-7.

  383. Kevin X says:

    Scratch that, 4 mercy rule games in the east this weekend.

  384. Tweeter says:

    Just catching up on some posts. Did chief red raider say coatesville never runs up the score? LOL. They were mercy ruling Ridley and Ortega HAD to throw a pass to get his son a TD to continue the Ortega TD streak. Give me a break. People saying NP defense was bad this year didn’t watch many games. Yes Ridley scored a lot. But 28 points was off special teams, a turnover, and OT. If you think defense blew that game then you didn’t watch. The only 2 teams in district 1 that could of matched up against Prep tonight were Coatesville and NP. They have the speed and athletes to compete. GV is a great program but can’t win these games unless they change their offense. Coatesville, with better coaching should have about 2 state titles. Yes I know people will kill me for saying that, but it’s true.

  385. Len says:

    If Prep & Imotep don’t lose in the State championship game they should play each other in Philly for bragging rights…

  386. The Joneses says:

    @BJ. I’ll make it simple. 35-7 Prep at the half. GV QB has 2 INT’ 1a pick 6 and 1 TD pass.

    Still another half to go so we will see.

  387. Buddy says:


    Do us all a favor, proof read your posts before you hit submit. We would like to follow your comments, but it’s quite the wrestle.

    GV has to bring their A game. If they do, should be a helluva game. I think if prep wins THIS game, they win states.

  388. Wpialguy says:

    Mount Lebanon demolished State college in another semi final blowout. 6 classes is fun right?

  389. Wpialguy says:

    And to be fair to you ncquip, i will also call out Central Valley in the same way. Theyve benefited mightily from raiding neighboring districts as well.

  390. Wpialguy says:

    @nc quip Kaezon Pugh, stephon McGinnis, Tariq Jones, jelani and Chinua Solomon. Should i keep going??? Davion Jones.. want a few more?? All those kids did not play peewee for quip. Yes quip wins in peewee, but they pull kids from other places. Pretending they don’t is hilarious. And all those players i mentioned played peewee for a certain school that just snapped a 30 game losing streak. But as long as quip wins it doesn’t matter what they do to other programs by poaching their best players.

  391. GaryZ says:

    I am not an Alliquippa grad or homer. But it’s ridiculous to come on this board and saying they basically have an influx of talent move in. People obviously don’t know the town, school or feeder programs their. They deserve every bit of respect they get. Imagine if they actually played A or AA.

  392. GaryZ says:

    I am a WPIAL coach for 20 years. I would love to know what ‘impact players’ have transferred in. That is some reckless talk their. Those kids, as you said come from pee wee up. WPIAL guy, not a good look. Just say who is moving in and having an impact.smh. ‘Quips are not Pine-Richland. Amazing how people try to down play this small class A team, year in and year out, just winning.

  393. BJ says:

    JONESES, “I still can’t get past the competition they played”. That’s basically saying they haven’t played anybody. We’re going to have a lot of questions answered tonight and we can continue the discussion. Have a great day.

  394. The Joneses says:

    @BJ also I didn’t present the proper context about GV’s ability to pass. It wasn’t the ability of the QB. It was can they be successful against Prep because defending the pass is the strength of the defense.

  395. The Joneses says:

    @BJ. You’re right I know little about GV. I’ll either learn more today, which I’ll freely admit or I won’t. I did miss on the QB bc all I saw was the dominant run game. TO BE I NEVER said they didn’t PLAY ANYONE. WE ALL know the PCL is the probably the stiffest competition in PA and many has belabored why. They is a difference in competition period. You beat who’s in front of you which GV did.

  396. NCQuip says:

    @WPIAL guy. Since you know Aliquippa so well and don’t have any sympathy in regards to them being forced up. Name those neighboring players that made any impact on their team over the past ten years. If you know Aliquippa they win from the time their in peewees to high school. Don’t speak that nonsense on this board. Probably beat your favorite team a few times. Oh and the beat Jersey Shore last night convincingly!

  397. Kevin X says:

    @ EmanD3

    Not to diminish Wyo’s current run, nor would this have changed the overall outcome of those two games, but they may have been more competitive, Scranton Prep did loose maybe the best junior RB in the state this year very early in that game. He also plays a very high level of defense as well, so that was a huge blow to Scranton Prep. N-G last night was without their starting QB, and it showed.

  398. Foleman says:

    EmanD3, Wyo’s offensive line is enormous, they made Scranton Prep’s line, who averaged 260K lbs look like a bunch of midgets and pushed them around all afternoon. Thought NG would show more, they were baffled….like many other schools by the Wing T. It’s going to be real interesting next week. Wyo’s coaches knew several weeks ago that they were going to have a rematch in the finals and have been scouting Central Valley for a while.

  399. EmanD3 says:

    Surprised that Wyomissing man handled Scranton Prep…even more surprised they destroyed NG 42-6..NG D had been in lock down mode most of the year…Wyo with 42 straight…let’s see what they’re made of next week!?

  400. Kevin X says:


    Lucky you guys out west. Three mercy rule games here in the east.

  401. Wpialguy says:

    So wow.. some close and interesting games. Wpial goes 4/5 tonight with a chance at 5 tomorrow with Mount Lebo. Bishop Canevin goes down but it’s nice to see a d9 team make it to Hershey. Will preview states later this week.

  402. D3 Mike says:

    BJ, thank god Mifflin gifted Exeter two fumbles, a squib quick, and incompetent coaching. I’d hate for D3 to have sent a team to the semi-finals that didn’t embarrass the district.

  403. BJ says:

    JONESES, how much more competition do you want Garnet valley to prove themselves? Ridley 12-1, Strathhaven 13-0, Central bucks West 9-2, Quakertown 12 – 0, Coatesville 13 – 1. Obviously I’m not counting each loss that Garnet valley gave these teams. So, 5 teams with the collective record of 59 – 4 shows Garnet valley hasn’t played anybody. Yeah okay!

  404. BJ says:

    That JONESES, so you consider a team with a quarterback who throws for 1900 yd 26 touchdowns and 2 interceptions a team that can’t pass? Obviously you know nothing about Garnet valley to make a ridiculous statement. They can pass when they need to, and usually they don’t need to.
    BUDDY, you are correct that Garnet valley webcast all of their games but they don’t have the rights to do so at tomorrow’s game. So you will have to pay the $1095 if you want to watch the game.

  405. D11 Matt says:

    All the semi finals this weekend and state finals next week should be on NFHS network for a 10.99/ month fee.

    ……and Go Northern Lehigh Bulldogs! (will be heavy underdogs tonight against Southern but have had a great season!)

  406. FrankG says:

    SJP-GV livestream:

  407. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy, From the SJP perspective, a lot depends on how much Jones can play and how close he is to 100% if or when he plays. Heard’s status will also make a difference, especially given what everyone says about GV’s offense. As for the Freedom game, the one big turnover in the first half and the penalties were big factors in the game. In the second LaSalle game the Prep fumbled twice but recovered each time whereas LaSalle paid a big price for its fumble and the blocked punt. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if tomorrow night’s game is decided by turnovers. (I realize turnovers are often caused by positive plays by the “other” team.)

  408. Wpialguy says:

    Aliquippa has been lead by a freshman running back who has ran for 1000 yards already. Their line averages 300 pounds. And if they win today, they may be forced up to 5a with a 1a enrollment. Although I don’t have any sympathy for them, as they have a knack for taking the best players from neighboring districts every year and passing them off as their own through “family member addresses”

  409. Foleman says:

    BJ, let me come to Jeff H’s defense. I said before that Exeter could play with Governor Mifflin, with several Div 1 recruits and several more that will play at the Div 2 and 3 level, they have as much talent as anyone. Exeter followed the game plan, (get out to any early lead-which they did-21-7 ) Keep the ball away from Mifflin with time several time consuming drives, which they did, have a chance to win at the end. Exeter did everything they needed to win the game which included getting a big turnover from Mifflin. Many folks were asking why did Singleton have only 8 carries in the game, Exeter controlled the clock limiting his touches, GM punted with a little over 5 minutes left thinking they would get the ball back, they never did as exeter hit 2 big 3rd down passes. What I didn’t get is GM’S inside Bunch defense which Exeter attacked on the outside hitting several big plays in the 1st half. Never underestimate the power of emotion. I thought GM ran up the score in the 1st game and their sideline antics had a lot to be desired. I have been critical of Matt Bauer’s coaching in the past, Kudo’s to him and his coaching staff as they had the perfect game plan to beat the best team I have seen in D3 5A in a long time

  410. Buddy says:

    I know GV has their home games live on youtube. This game is at Ridley. Hopefully, their (video crew) will be there.

  411. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    yea but that costs

  412. The Joneses says:

    @Buddy and all the other Prep hater hopefuls. If there is any hope for you it would be this year while they are young. While what GV has done so far this year looks impressive statistically, I still can’t get past the competition they played. Freedom just couldn’t pass the ball and it doesn’t seem as though GV can either. Perhaps they haven’t had to. I see Prep winning this one, however, I wouldn’t be too shocked if GV won the game. Prep has shown a weakness against the run. They team that clicks in all 3 phases wins the game. I think that favors Prep. There’s a reason GV hasn’t beaten Coatesville in the playoffs until this year.

  413. David Mika says:

    Buddy, It should be on NFHS.

  414. Buddy says:

    SJP/GV live stream? anyone know?

  415. 4th&Forever says:

    Anyone know how Neumann-Goretti beat South Philly 54-0 on Thanksgiving and beat Danville 28-0 in the playoffs the next day? When he was at Imhotep, Crosby played his JV team in the Thanksgiving game (and lost), then turned around to win with his varsity players in the playoff game. Wondering if he did the same thing here, because beating another school’s varsity 54-0 with your JV players seems improbable no matter how bad the other team is, but I can’t imagine him using varsity starters the day before a playoff game, particularly given his history.

  416. BJ says:

    Jeff H. What do you think now that your one trick pony Governor Mifflin has been beaten and won’t even make it to the semi-finals in 5a. Still sticking with your prediction they would beat everybody in 6A, especially those D1 teams. You think Exeter wins again this weekend and goes to the final?

  417. Buddy says:

    What’d you guys think? i believe SJP/GV will be one helluva game.

    i doubt SJP was doin’ any subbing in the Freedom game. That was close.

    Could this be the year!?!

  418. Wpial guy says:

    Welcome back everyone…. Interesting week in wpial games.
    Aliquippa upsets Belle Vernon. Central Valley wins by 50. Only the 5a game wasn’t a blowout. Makes me want 4 classes back. So watered down. 5a game was really good and I think Penn trafford – Exeter will be a close one.

    Lebo over State College
    Exeter over Penn Trafford
    Aliquippa over Jersey Shore
    Central Valley over Central
    Farrel over Serra Catholic
    Bishop Canevin over Redbank Valley

  419. David Mika says:

    Kevin X….LOL

  420. Kevin X says:

    Did MikeS break the forum??? 🙂

  421. David Mika Jr. says:

    You should be able to post

  422. MikeS says:


    Quakertown 21 Pennridge 0

  423. NW PA says:

    Just a couple thoughts on a few games. In 2A Farrell should have no problem with Karn City and I think they handle whoever they play next week as well. They just have too much size and speed. In 3A I think Wyomissing beats Scranton Prep, I know Prep is having a good season but Im not convinced they are able to win this one. I think Central Valley is on a collision course with Wyomissing. Grove City should loose to Central as well. In 4A I like BV to beat Alaquippa though I think it’s a good game. Jersey Shore should crush Meadville and Mcdevitt should crush LS. In 5A GM should be rolling to the state title. Imhotep should beat Erie Cathedral. In 6A Lebo should easily handle Mcdowell and I think the Prep wins as well.

  424. Buddy says:

    Is the Pennridge/Q-Town game live stream somewhere?

  425. MikeS says:


    For your viewing please this morning

    Maxpreps ranked in 6A Penn’s #30 Pennridge against #9 Quakertown @ Pennridge HS @ 10:15.

    Pennridge 7-4, all 4 loses to Playoff Teams, Lost Rd 1 CB West 19-17 Reg season loses to North Penn by 7, Downingtown East by 7 both away games, & CB West.

    Quakertown 12-1 Lost to Garnet Valley Rd 3 56-39

    Conventional wisdom says Quakertown, HOWEVER

    Pennridge has had 2 plus weeks to prepare, Quakerown played Friday night so 2nd game in 6 days

    Home Field Advantage Pennridge
    It’s the 92nd Consecutive year for these next door neighbors, so records have often gone out the window, so…

    Neutral field both team same prep tine Quakertown by 7 to 10 points, all factors included its……

    Pennridge 28 Quakertown 27, as Quakertown gets worn out in the 4th qtr.

  426. Jerry Springer says:

    I was initially against the six class system and so many teams making playoffs. Yeah they were some blow outs but also some huge upsets. I also was big on injuries but a good point was brought up that injuries can happen in any game not just blow outs. Overall if these teams want to play let them have the opportunities. I’m all for giving more opportunities. Everyone on this forum put up good points that had me change my views. Lots of good games are still gonna be played.

  427. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, I agree. It’s not as if Richland doesn’t have a pedigree. The limitation of the Born Index is it’s a pure algorithm and IMO overweights margin of victory and underweights schedule quality. It has Mt. Lebanon as the best team in the state and I don’t think they’ve played any of the top 10 teams in PA. Meanwhile, it has Harrisburg within 3 points of Governor Mifflin despite the fact that Mifflin mercy ruled them. Doesn’t make a lot of sense — but algorithms don’t get context.

    Anyway, I think Richland keeps it competitive but SCAs strength-of-schedule, coaching, and senior experience in state playoff games helps them pull away in the second half. I’d say they are probably a 2-3 TD favorite. But they won’t just waltz into Hershey without breaking a sweat as they have most years, recently. I’m sure by now that every coach in 2A has had the Wyomissing tape on repeat.

  428. Jeff H. says:

    Is there anyone else who thinks Richland might give SCA a battle this weekend or just me. The Born Power Index has SC by 2.3 points, that’s usually a fairly reliable indicator of the teams relative strength compared to each other, I’m not saying Richland will win, but I think this game will be a lot closer than most people expect. Looking ahead a few weeks the Born Index favors Farrell by 2 over SCA, all indications are that will be a very competitive 2A final if it plays out.

  429. mark dodgson says:

    @kevin X yes he tore his ACL in the Crestwood game game 5 i believe worst it was a non contact injury he scored a touchdown and just came down funny on the leg and that was it .Believe me they were a different team with him under center 6 ft 5 225 lb with a big arm and runs like a deer .Valley view still has a very good running game their tail back is tough and fast and they have what we call the weapon Collin Skeen he scored on 4 punt returns a kick off coupler of interception and runs and catches he has like 10 or 12 scores on the season with very few touches on defense front is strong but the linebacker are undersized but quick secondary has been good but we really didn’t see a good passing team beside Dallas so like i said i guess we will see come Friday

  430. D11 Matt says:

    Anyone in D12 have any info on West Catholic other than they won last two weeks after having 2 wins in reg season? I know they beat a good CE team two weeks ago and York Catholic (although I know people have said they played a weak schedule). I’m able to get to the game this weekend as I’ll be home in the valley for Thanksgiving (live in DC area. Moved there five years ago for my wife’s work). First Northern Lehigh game iv been to in a couple years. Used to go to atleast a few a year as an alum. Hoping Northern Lehigh can keep it a good game. They got beat badly by that very good WC team in 2010. Although I’m betting this year’s WC team isn’t as stacked as that one.

  431. Jeff H. says:

    @Ryan – I agree, I think the Coatesville/GV game will be close and Coatesville’s overall team speed will give GV some problems and would not be surprised to see Coatesville win, I give GV the edge at home, but IMO that game could go either way. I also think the Exeter/GM game will be closer than the first one but I still see GM winning by 3 TD’s.

    @WPIALguy – totally agree about Westinghouse, they are building a nice program there, was good to see them win a state playoff game and be somewhat competitive against a traditional powerhouse program like Farrell, I too don’t think BF or Serra have the offensive firepower to beat Farrell.

    @Chief & Kevin X – agree Wyomissing vs. Scranton Prep might be one of the better games this weekend in any class, expect the winner to make it to Hershey to take on defending champ Central Valley, it would take a huge upset to keep CV from returning to defend their title.

  432. Ryan says:

    @Red Raider – I believe Coatesville has a really good shot at winning this game, they always played GV tough, they have the team speed and play well against the GV offense, it will come down to if GV can stop Coatesville offense.

    Believe the Exeter/Governor game will be a lot closer than last time they played.

  433. Jeff H. says:

    if anyone needs more evidence the competitive balance rule needs to be adjusted look no further than Aliquippa, there was a big article on TribLive yesterday that if the Quips win the next 2 weeks and make it to Hershey they will be forced to play up in 5A, and if that happens the administration is threatening to sue the PIAA and leave the WPIAL and play an independent schedule, This is an A school with 117 boys who voluntarily played up to 3A, then was forced to 4A 2 years ago, and because they manage to keep winning could be forced to play schools 5x their size, which is ridiculous. I think they lose to Belle Vernon this week in the WPIAL final and will stay in 4A, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility they make it to Hershey, they gave eventual state champ TJ a battle in the WPIAL final last year and took them to OT. Aliquippa gets penalized by the transfer rule, it’s a low income city and there are a lot of transient residents, many kids go from living with one family member to another, so the number of transfers they have is more reflective of their socioeconomic conditions than pure transfers for athletic intent like at some other schools.

    I get the purpose of the competitive balance rule and generally support it, but there needs to be some adjustments to take into account schools that are already voluntarily playing up, we don’t need comments from PIAA head Bob Lombardi that they are still winning so they must be playing at the proper classification, there are other factors besides wins and losses, there’s something wrong with the system if a 1A sized school is forced to play schools with enrollments 5x bigger than them week after week.

  434. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – IMO Harrisburg will be the best team Mt Lebanon has played all year, including PCC, the WPIAL is also WAY down in both 6A and 5A, I do know Lebo has not played a team with as much athleticism and speed as Harrisburg, I like Lebo to win, but I can’t see them blowing out Harrisburg. Then again I didn’t think they would blow out PCC in the WPIAL final either. I don’t think Harrisburg will have much of a problem with SC, this is just an average SC team, I see Harrisburg winning by a couple of scores.

    I agree with you about Mifflin, would be fascinating to see them against SJP, I’m not going to say they are the best team in the state, but there’s no doubt they would beat almost all, if not all of the 6A teams, I would pick them over Mt Lebanon and any of the D1 teams like GV or Coatesville, I think they blow out either Moon or Penn Trafford next week, we’ll see.

    @Ryan – it was West Allegheny that let Palko go and not North Allegheny, he won 8 district titles and one state title with West A in 24 yrs as head coach. He retired as a teacher 3 yrs ago but wanted to still keep coaching, the administration wanted to go a different direction with the program, I don’t know the inner details as to why and it certainly wasn’t as public as the debacle at Pine Richland with Coach K, maybe WPIALguy has some more insight as to why he was let go. Needless to say Mt Lebo is very happy he had a parting of the ways with West A, he has installed a completely new culture at Mt Lebanon, they were a very proud program in the 60’s-90’s and had won 7 district titles in school history but none since 2000, Palko has reignited the program to say the least, he’s a great coach and one of the best in Western PA history.

  435. Kevin X says:

    A look ahead, and look back two weeks. The question that I have, of the 48 teams playing in the state quarterfinals this upcoming weekend, how many of those teams would not be playing if we did not have the first round of playoffs, as in which teams would not be playing in a state playoff game this weekend if we had a 5 week, 32 team playoff bracket for each classification?? I’m seeing two, West Catholic of the D12 PCL and OLSH of “A” in District 7. Was it worth it?? Would have an 11 game regular season and 5 week playoff been more worthwhile?? Or some other configuration??

  436. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark D

    Is the VV QB done for the year?? Believe it was a knee injury?? Valley View seemed to have a bookend type of schedule. Started the year on the road at Dallas, then beat Del Val in two nice out of the gate match-ups. Then basically glorified scrimmages until Scranton Prep. D2 4A seemed to come up weak after looking fairly competitive during the season. Just my take from 2 hours south. Not to say Shanahan had a tough schedule either. Sure they played and lost to the big 3 of the Ches-Mont, but everyone else they played they should have beaten and did. Toughest game was their last against Bonner. No signature wins that I see. Guess it will come down to Shanahan’s very good D and if they can stop the VV ground game. Agree with Chief, an intriguing match-up. Wyo and Scranton Prep as well. ECP and Imhotep and C’Ville/Garnet both interesting to me as well.

  437. phillyboy says:

    Without a doubt, the WPIAL (D7), is the best high school football area in PA. There are so many quality programs, and many others step up on a rotating basis, having a great team now and then. They play the district championships at the Steelers stadium and their newspaper has a web site dedicated to high school sports news with a bunch of games being live streamed each week in audio and a some in video. The greedy Eagles would never allow that and heck, the Philadelphia Inquirer doesn’t even cover HS sports anymore — literally. IMO the quality of the community out there is better, the aforementioned things just a tiny symptom of that. From a high school football standpoint, the bottom line is, can the area produce legit public teams? Time and time again D7 produces high quality public teams, the best of which can compete with the strongest all-star teams, the only district that can handle that.

  438. WPIALguy says:

    @jeff h agree about 2a now that sto rox is out, I don’t think the wpial winner will beat Farrell. Sto rox can never seem to pull it together in playoffs. They had 5 turnovers in the one point loss to Serra. Although Westinghouse did put up a fight vs Farrell, I don’t think Serra or BF have the firepower to beat them. I was glad to see a city league team put up a fight and make some noise in the state playoffs. First time in a while. Westinghouse has a good program currently and I’m hoping they can keep the momentum in the new cycle.

  439. Wpialguy says:

    @ Ryan , West Allegheny did not exactly let Palko go, Palko chose to leave, but it was because the new superintendent did not like the power the football coach had over the district. The new superintendent was making Palko’s life difficult so he and his entire staff decided to retire or go somewhere else. Every west a grad and former member of that program I talk to are sick to their stomach and really do not like the new administration. I went to a game there and sat with a former player earlier this year and the stands were half full. The former player was visibly upset at what the school had done. When I say de-emphasize football, I mostly mean the administration did not like the power it had. So they ruined what the school was known for because of their, lack of a better term, ‘modern/woke’ views on the game.

  440. Chief Red Raider says:

    Ryan: No chance for Coatesville? Same guys who had Perk Valley beating them or a close game with Ridley? I definitely think Coatesville has a chance — check out both teams in action against a common opponent — Ridley (both games on youtube) — especially the 1st half of both games. I do think home field advantage will be huge (even though it probably should be at a neutral site — that’s a whole other topic). I will not make a prediction because who knows, but Coatesville still has the advantage that they’ve had every other time they’ve beaten GV — Team speed and QB/receivers.

  441. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, Governor Mifflin’s running game is as good as any I have seen at the HS level, and I go back to Pettine’s CB West Powerhouses and Curry’s Berwick’s Juggernauts. Looking forward to the rematch with Exeter, who I believe is the 2nd best team in D3-all levels. Exeter-(5 Div Players) has the talent to play with GM and they are playing their best ball of the season, however, we both know that they usually come up small in Big games. If Exeter can score early and come in with the mindset they can win that game, then we might see a close game, if they get behind early like the last game, it will be another long day for Exeter.

  442. Ryan says:

    Talked to some people and no 1 I’ve talked to believes Coastesville has a shot against Garnet Valley but I can’t figure out why that is.

    Imhotep/CP should be a great game, sucks Imhotep has to drive 3 hours to play. Really don’t know anything about Prep.

    Neumann Goretti has a great shot to win again this week.

    @WPIALguy – or anyone Can anyone explain to me why North Allegheny let Palko go? Read they de-emphasized football, what’s that mean?

  443. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, as usual, you are being diplomatic! I suspect you were a HS football coach in a past life 🙂 But in this case, you are being a bit too diplomatic, even for you. Take a minute and check out Harrisburg’s schedule on MaxPreps. They won 4 games by under a touchdown (in a year when D3 was down in 6A) and got handled by Governor Mifflin (admittedly, a historically good 5A team for D3). I think Harrisburg runs one of the best programs in the state – they will play anyone at any time and they deserve a lot of credit for that. But D3 historically struggles with D7 in 4A/6A and Harrisburg just isn’t one of D3s better big school representatives. I don’t say that to take anything away from D3, but our district just can’t field the same quality of programs as the WPIAL can. Harrisburg will be a 2-3 TD underdog vs. Mt. Lebanon… and that’s a big if, because Harrisburg is probably 55/45 just to get past State College.

    Question for the people: if this plays out as many expect with Prep and Governor Mifflin winning 6A and 5A, can Governor Mifflin lay claim to being the best team in PA this year? I’m biased, but if you have not had a chance to watch Mifflin play, yet, and are a fan of old-school Pennsylvania football,?you are really missing out. For better or worse, their running attack is a thing to behold.

  444. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – I agree very tough finding neutral sites on Thanksgiving weekend and all the people needed to staff the game, much easier for the semi-finals the following weekend, and as you indicated Covid has exacerbated the problem, so I think the combination is why you’re seeing games at home fields and not another site. For years when D7 and D10 teams would play in the quarterfinals they alternated hosting the games, some years TJ traveled to Erie to take on ECP, other years they came down here, but the games weren’t played on TJ’s home field, in 2016 those teams played at Baldwin and in 2019 they played at North Hills, still almost a 2 hour drive for Prep, but the game wasn’t on TJ’s home field. This week Mt Lebo is hosting Erie McDowell, I was mildly surprised the game is at Lebo’s home field and not Baldwin or North Alleghany, but my assumption is due to the reasons you indicated, particularly in a Covid world.

  445. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – totally agree with your analysis, only WPIAL favorites for state championships are 3A and 4A. With Sto-Rox and Steel Valley losing hard not to see Farrell vs. SCA in 2A, in 5A I think Gov Mifflin will roll over the WPIAL winner next week, and in 1A whoever emerges from the East will definitely be the favorite. I think Mt Lebo and Harrisburg win fairly comfortably this week setting up a good matchup next week for the right to go to Hershey.

    I like Belle Vernon to beat the Quips this week and set up a tough matchup next week with Jersey Shore, I said several weeks ago on this board Belle Vernon was on a collision course with Bishop McDevitt, and nothing I’ve seen in the playoffs thus far has done anything to change my opinion. I have seen Whitlock 3 times this year, and every game he does something where you just shake your head in amazement, I have not seen a player as dynamic as him in a long time, and for the life of me I can’t understand why Pat Narduzzi at Pitt has not offered him a scholarship. I get his size is an issue, but he would be a threat on every punt and kickoff return, and you could figure out a few plays to use him on offense. He is such a threat on punt returns that he changes the game, TJ kicked it out of bounds on every punt, but their first punt went 10 yards, the 2nd went about 20, and the result was TJ had terrible field position practically the entire game.

  446. JCo says:

    The different between us (ESS) and Cathedral Prep is the depth. It was never going to matter if any starters were out, because the backups are more than capable of doing damage. We’ve got a good team and I’m proud of what they accomplished, but we’ve also got quite a few players playing both sides of the ball, and ECP is on another tier. I’m surprised anyone thought there was a chance of ECP losing, honestly.

  447. mark dodgson says:

    @kevin i was told lack of sites is why Valley View is home ??? i cant believe they cant find a site even i they moved the game to Hazelton or Scranton ? does any one know since the game at a D2 site if we still can only buy tickets only on line ?
    @cheif red raider Valley View live and dies with it fronts after we lost our Qb we really don’t have much of a passing game and the young(sophomore ) Qb we have really cant run the RPO we were running earlier in the year they have good size and good overall team speed but to be honest the league was very week this year so i really l don’t know how they will match up ?

  448. Wpialguy says:

    6A final
    Wow. Mt Lebanon absolutely demolishes Central Catholic. 9th title for legendary coach Bob Palko tying him with TJ’s Cherpak for most all time in WPIAL. First while not at West Allegheny. I wonder if West Allegheny’s administration liked their decision to de-emphasize football. They haven’t made playoffs in two years. Crazy what people will do if their power is threatened. I think Lebo ends up beating McDowell just as badly.

    Moon beats penn hills and penn trafford beats Pine Richland. Both teams are very similar and run run-heavy offenses. Moon hasn’t won since 1998. PT hasn’t won ever. Sets up a good championship with what should be a good crowd.

    Belle Vernon handles TJ. Whitlock is a special player. Aliquippa beats McKeesport in 2OT. Quips make their 14th straight wpial finals. Doing so with a 1a enrollment in 4A. I don’t think belle Vernon will be stopped.

    Central Valley rolls and north Catholic wins a tight one. I will be surprised if North Catholic can keep it within 20. CV is just on another level.

    UPSETS! one seed Steel Valley goes down to 5 seed beaver falls after SV lost their leading rusher for the year last week. BF will try to repeat as champs. Serra Catholic upset 2 seed sto rox. Serra hasn’t won since 2007 but their defense is stout. I think Serra wins.

    More upsets. 9 seed Our Lady of the Sacred Heart (OLSH) beat Rochester to set up a match with 3 seed Bishop Canevin. Canevin hasn’t won a championship in 31 years but I think they win this one.

    Overall, some new blood is definitely nice to see make it through. I’d say as of now only 3a and 4A have state championship favorites out of the wpial.

  449. D3 Mike says:

    FWIW, when I asked about this issue 2-3 years ago, people tied into the PIAA told me that it was difficult to staff neutral sites the weekend after Thanksgiving due to the double whammy of the holiday and the peak of deer hunting season. I imagine Covid only exacerbates the issue. Remember, hosting usually involves both volunteers and facilities crews that often operate under union contracts. And yes, the PIAA prefers turf fields as grass increases the likelihood of having to reschedule the games due to increment weather.

  450. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    Not certain exactly why, but I read or heard that top teams in the bracket, If they had turf, would host at least the first round of state playoffs. I don’t know why neutral sites aren’t being chosen though.

  451. D11 Matt says:

    @Kevin…..yep. I looked to see where the Northern Lehigh West Catholic game is….it’s neutral at Whitehall this week but I saw other games are at home field for quarterfinals……what is going on?? Can they not find sites to host???

  452. Kevin X says:

    I think I may have answered my own question below, sort of………

    In last year’s patchwork mess of a playoff, some teams on the top of the bracket had games at their home field, right thru the semi finials. Guess to cut down on travel and due to a lack of available neutral sites, just my guess. Games that were between teams that were quite a distance between each other were contested on a neutral field (or maybe the PIAA didn’t think a hosting team had a suitable facility??). So guessing the PIAA is just returning the favor in this second year of the current two year cycle. I did notice that some true home games last year were played on a natural grass field, but this year I thought I heard/saw that the PIAA is having all games, if at all possible, be played on turf, so that could be a reason the likes of Wyo is playing Scranton Prep at nearby GM and not at their true home field. And then you have the City/School District of Philadelphia crowd mandate. Just taking some wild swings here with all of this, best that I’ve come up with for all of these site inconsistencies.

  453. Kevin X says:

    OK, now this is getting bizarre and confusing. Not that I care, just more really curious as to why. We are now in the quarter final round, and we still have some schools at the state/Inter-district level, hosting playoff games. Valley View, Southern Columbia, Harrisburg, Mt. Lebanon, Karns City all hosting games, while others are not.

  454. Chief Red Raider says:

    A matchup that I find interesting is Valley View vs. Shanahan. Shanahan played some of the better 6A and 5A teams in D1 (plus they are in the Chesmont League). I think they are underrated and could go pretty far. I don’t know squat about VV, but it should be a good game. I remember when Shanahan almost beat some great C’ville teams.

  455. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA

    Nah, you’re good 🙂 Just hedging. Pass on the crow unless it’s well brined and deep fried. Instead, enjoy some good turkey and the obligatory fixings in a few days!!

    I do believe ECP with that win did punch their ticket to play with the big boys in 6A the next 2 years.

  456. EmanD3 says:

    Wyomissing wins 55-14.

    54/430 on the ground and holds Boiling Springs to 7 first downs and no pass completions.

    Wyo will have their hands full will 12-0 Scranton Prep next week. They have pitched two shutouts their last 2 W’s and have a D1 RB(Arizona St.) and some road graters on the OL….plus Governor Mifflin/Exeter should be a mutch better game this time around. Yes, GM has Singleton, the #1 RB in the nation, but Exeter has it’s share if D1 talent as well, and there OL has been dominant in the post season.

  457. EmanD3 says:

    WWL loses 14-10 @ Harrisburg. Had the lead for the first 40 minutes and won the TO battle 2-0, but they couldn’t punch it in, twice inside HB territory in the 4th, including 1st down at HB 20, after a fumble recovery. It was a real slobberknocker!

  458. D11 Matt says:

    Just saw WC beat York Catholic 24-7….York led 7-6 at half. Looking at the schedule looks like they had two reg season wins (played a bunch of bigger schools) but obviously won last two weeks. As a Northern Lehigh Alum, I remember the 50-14 beating they put on NL in 2010. That team ended up winning the AA title that year. Anyone have any more insight on this year’s west Catholic team. Game should be played in D11 as they are at top of bracket. Northern Lehigh has more team speed than iv seen since that 2010 NL team. Whoever wins this game will get Southern in AA east final…..and that will be where it ends probably for whoever wins.

  459. Chief Red Raider says:

    BJ: Good comments, but I don’t really think emotion (or lack of emotion) was Ridley’s problem — they were just flat out dominated. Not sure how the C’ville/GV game will go, but I just watched the first half of the GV/Ridley game and I’m thinking about the C’ville/Ridley first half last night. Yes, GV came back and smashed Ridley, but C’ville’s defense looked great last night (Mills had something like 700 yards the previous 2 games and he only had 83 last night — I think the bulk of it was against the 2nd team too). Again, it should be a great game. Looking ahead, I hope whoever wins beats SJP

  460. jc says:

    When you run a hurry up fast paced offense all year, no huddle, mixing run and pass and getting everyone involved, you do that so when you play the best teams you use all the plays you worked on all year. North schuylkill plays 2 teams all year that can match them talent and athlete wise. The first game against Pottsville they don’t run the same offense but that can be attributed to horrible weather conditions. But last night they come out and decide to run the no huddle, hurry up, hand off time and time again. An interception thrown on the 2nd drive and they decide to not throw the ball anymore. Penalties all year hurt them!!!! The defense played great and really put heat on the qb but the offense didn’t open up until it was to late. This game shouldn’t have been lost. It looks like gorretti dominated but there scores came on a 3rd and 27 td pass, and interception return for a td, and a fumble at the goal line into the end zone where they recovered there own fumble after ns went for it on 4th down in there own territory. You can’t wait to the 4th quarter to figure things out when your in the state playoffs. You owe it to your kids to have it figured out before the game. The defense gave north schuylkill the opportunity to win the game the offensive coaching didn’t allow them to win.

  461. BJ says:

    Red raider, I think after Ridley won such an emotional game last week it was inevitable they were going to get their ass handed to them. It’s just too much of an emotional expenditure to do that back to back. And I agree with you 100%, Ridley has been running up the score with starters into the fourth quarter all year. Quakertown is a legit football team and they were in it for a while. By far the best team Garnet valley has played this year. Also agree 100%, Coatesville’s speed will be a problem for Garnet valley. It always is. I expect their wide receivers to burn the slow d-backs Garnet valley always presents. I don’t believe Coatesville will be able to stop Garnet valley either though, so I expect a pretty high scoring shootout. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Coatesville wins again for the fourth time in 5. I think this is the best team Garnet valley will bring to the fight, so I certainly hope we get a different result. I know coach Ricci really wants to go out getting the Coatesville monkey off his back. Will be tough retiring knowing that team stopped you from 4 district titles. Anyway, hopefully it’ll be an epic battle the people will remember for years.

  462. Chief Red Raider says:

    BJ: Not really trying to insinuate anything — just that C’ville never runs up the score. For example, last night they could have picked their score — had their subs in early in 2nd half — could have had a shutout too (I think Ridley had their starters in until the last series or so). Also, the QTown and GV was much closer than the final score — that’s all. Not sure if C’ville will beat GV (C’ville still has too many penalties plus they are playing at GV, but I think they looked like the best team playing last night). Not sure GV will be able to wear them down, and I think C’ville will be the fastest team they’ve faced so far. And, Ridley lit GV up in the first half of the game with them (whereas I think there was 4 minutes left in the half before they got a first down last night). It should be a great game.

  463. D11 Matt says:

    Well 3-3 on my D11 picks last night. Was only a point off on each side of NL -Lackawanna game. As an alum and interested in game watched it on NFHS network. Northern Lehigh had some mistakes first three qtrs but turned in on late third and 4th. They went for it on 4th and 2 from their own 9! And got a 91 yard TD! They play winner of York Catholic and west Catholic. Way off on EC Prep and ESS. EC Prep might give Tep a good game…..maybe.

  464. Buddy says:

    i thought the C’ville/Ridley game would be tight, real tight. Thought the GV/Q-Town game would be a mercy rule.

    That’s how much I know. Shows you how bad North Penn’s defense was. Didn’t think Ridley’s RB could be stopped.

    Apparently, he can. Q-Town was a lot better than I thought. GV/C’ville looms to be a really good game.

  465. Foleman says:

    Mcdevitt 35-Berks Catholic 7 BC’S program is sinking fast and they have no one to blame but themselves. POLITICS sunk that program. During their several year run of playing or winning the District Championship, special preferences were given to transfers-in order to get more transfers, Coaches Kids- a few of their coaches had their kids starting over more talented players, and politically connected, i.e high profile Donors kids, 1 in particular seemed to have a lot of clout on who plays and who doesn’t. All of the above really ticked off the lifeblood of the program-BC’S CYO program. Many of the stud CYO kids matriculated to the area Public Schools and a few to Prep Schools. BC has had dozens of stud players transfer out the program the last 4 years, an all star team, I know of several parents who complained to the administration about what was going on, it fell on deaf ears. Just a few years ago they had 83 kids on the team, now they have 45. I’m hearing if the numbers are right they are heading to 3A next year.

  466. BJ says:

    Red raider, kind of a cryptic post. What are you trying to say? What team are you insinuating runs up scores? What is misleading about the scores tonight? Just trying to figure out whats on your mind.

  467. NW PA says:

    @Kevin X: I will eat crow. They did have several starters out but none the less crushed ESS. The scary part is they bring back most of their starters next year. Can they beat Tep (assuming Tep wins)? The way they are playing now maybe. I’ve heard Tep has a big, physical line which they struggled with against Mcdowell. I guess we will find out Friday.

  468. Chief Red Raider says:

    Watched a lot of the two 6A D1 games. Would encourage everyone who wants to make predictions about next week to take a look — both of the scores are somewhat misleading. One team clearly has the team speed advantage IMHO (and they never run up the score)

  469. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA

    I think they’re healthy.

  470. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – I’m with you, would love to see Moon vs. Penn Trafford in the 5A final at Heinz, IMO Penn Trafford is the best program in the WPIAL to never win a district championship, they’ve had very solid teams for years and just have never been able to get over the hump and win a district title. I was at their 2017 game at Heinz against Gateway and freshman Derrick Davis was a dominating factor in Gateway’s win, he was all over the field on defense, PT also lost a tough one to PCC in 2015 when PCC went on to win the state title in the last year of 4 classes. I’m rooting for a BV vs. Aliquippa matchup in 4A, I think that game would also draw a very large crowd and be highly entertaining. I had to decide tonight between going to PR vs PT or the TJ vs. Belle Vernon game, I’m not very far from Gateway high school and that should be an excellent game, but I can’t pass up the opportunity to see Whitlock and Martin take on TJ again, the first game was an instant classic and hopefully this game will be just as good.

  471. EmanD3 says:

    Only one sportswriter giving Wilson a “W” over Harrisburg tomorrow. That’s Pafootball news, 28-21. All five at Harrisburg Patriots-News and all three at Lancaster paper picking HB.

    All picking Mifflin over Spring Grove
    All picking McD over Berks calling for a 30-0 shutout for McD..really?
    Most picking Exeter over Cedar Cliff
    Most surprising…two HB sportswriters picking Boiling Springs over Wyomissing..hmm

    Anyone have any thoughts on these games?

  472. D11 Matt says:

    I saw there was another Matt posting about dist 12 teams so I’ll use D11 Matt.

    Dist 11 picks for this weekend

    Tri Valley 14 Old Forge 35

    Northern Lehigh 34- Lackawanna Trail 13

    North Schuylkill 21- NG 14

    ACC 20 – Jersey Shore 24

    ESS 31 – Erie Prep 27

    Emmaus 20- Freedom 17 in OT

  473. MikeS says:

    Jc, Buddy, BJ. I suspect Quakertown will play Pennridge, Turkey Day Morning, win or lose.
    Yes I remember Easton playing that Saturday also.
    Also remember Pennridge playing I think it was Springford on Saturday, unfortunately their D1 running back sprained his ankle against Qtown. And they list Saturday

  474. Wpialguy says:

    Regarding the new class cycle, interestingly it was reported Pittsburgh central Catholic has 5a numbers but will choose to stay 6A.
    Other notes
    Central Valley to 4A
    Aliquippa must stay 4A for making it to wpial semis even with their 1a enrollment.
    Woodland Hills, a once proud AAAA power under 4 classes has a chance to be 3a for the next cycle. They haven’t decided if they will play up.
    6A will only have 7 wpial teams.

    4A will now be loaded with Thomas Jefferson, belle Vernon, aliquippa, McKeesport, Central Valley, north catholic and potentially Woodland Hills. That is just a highly competitive, brutal classification. Winner of that will no doubt be the state champ favorite each year.

  475. WPIALguy says:

    @jeff h TJ and BV should be a really good game. I just worry about the ability for TJ to suffocate BV like they always do to teams. I would love to see penn trafford vs moon at Heinz. I think that has the potential for a really good crowd with the new blood. Want to see BV at Heinz because that community will come out in numbers as well.

  476. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – I agree it will be tough for Lebo to beat PCC again, I heard from my Mt Lebo contacts the QB is playing but they lost their best offensive lineman last week to a broken ankle, really hope Lebo wins but I have a hunch PCC pulls out a close one

    5A – I like Moon over Penn Hills, they have a big advantage in the trenches and I think their rushing attack will eat up the clock and limit the number of chances for Penn Hills offense. I think the other 5A game is a tossup, I like the way PR came back last week in the 2nd half against a dangerous Peters Township team, showed a lot of character, and I think that carries over to this game and they win a close one over Penn Trafford

    4A – I am going to the Belle Vernon vs. TJ rematch tonight since it’s being played 5 minutes from my house, I was at the first game which was the best game I saw all year, expect another battle tonight and rooting for BV but wouldn’t be surprised if TJ”s ground and pound attack wears them down in the 2nd half

    I like Aliquippa over McKeesport, I think the Quips have too much offense for McKeesport to keep up

    3A – Central Valley rolls like you said, I think Avonworth beats North Catholic, they have played a tougher schedule than NC and I think they win this one

    2A – very unfortunate injury for Steel Valley, as I posted earlier I like Beaver Falls to beat them, I also think Sto-Rox beats Serra by at least 2 TD’s and probably more

    1A – expect both of these games to be close, I’ll take Cornell and OLSH, very impressive win last week after falling behind perennial power Clairton on the road 15-0 and then scoring 29 unanswered points the rest of the game.

  477. Buddy says:


    Actually, been done quite a few times. The obvious one is Easton/P-burg. Nothing stops that T-day game.

    Back in the day, Easton played P-burg on a Thur. ( thanksgiving) , then played North Penn that Sat.

    Some Turkey day games are sacred. Northampton/Catty is one, Pennridge/Q-town is another.

  478. BJ says:

    Mike S, I just assumed that common sense would dictate that Quakertown wouldn’t play their Thanksgiving Day game on Thursday and then play The district 1 finals 24 hours later. Never heard of a high school playing 2 football games in 24 hours.

  479. Jeff H. says:

    @CoalRgnFtballFan – Steel Valley’s best player, the leading rusher in the WPIAL, was hurt last week and is out for this season, so they will likely lose to Beaver Falls tonight in the semi-finals, and if they manage to get by them I expect they will lose to Sto-Rox next week. It very well could be Farrell vs. SCA in Hershey, but I think the Farrell vs. Sto-Rox game is a tossup and could go either way. I do agree SCA has played a much tougher schedule than any other 2A team in the state.

    @NW PA – even if ECP wins this weekend they have Imhotep up next, and I can’t see them beating Tep even if they are at full strength.

  480. Wpialguy says:

    Wpial previews
    6A final- Mt Lebanon vs PCC
    Lebo has not won a wpial championship since 2000. Legendary former West Allegheny coach Bob Palko has turned around Lebos program
    Lebo beat PCC in the regular season but for some reason I’m thinking it will be hard to beat them twice.

    5a semis
    Moon vs Penn Hills
    Moon has 24 seniors and is undefeated. Last Wpial title was in 1998. Penn hills has won 6 in a row after losing 3 of their first four. Battle of contrasting styles. Moon with a heavy running game offense and Penn Hills with a high flying passing game.

    4A semis
    Belle Vernon vs Thomas Jefferson.
    Belle Vernon beat Tj in the regular season and their reward was to play them in the semis as well. Difficult to beat a team twice but Devin Whitlock is one of the most electric players in the state.

    Aliquippa vs McKeesport
    Two historical powers going head to head for the first time in 62 years. Aliquippa with a 1a enrollment has been holding their own in 4A however I think McKeesport squeaks this one out
    I would argue these 4 teams are the top 4 teams in 4A and any 4 of them would win the state championship if they get thru this gauntlet.

    3a semis
    Central Valley vs Elizabeth Forward
    Rematch of last years Wpial title game where Cv won 35-0. Don’t think it will be close again.

    Avonworth vs North Catholic
    Should be a competitive game. NC is undefeated but their section was very weak. I still think NC wins and sets up a big clash with CV at Heinz

    2a semis
    Beaver Falls vs Steel Valley
    Steel Valley leading rusher and star player fractured his ankle last week. The number one seed didn not look the same, as a result I Think BF reaches the finals for the second straight year and they will try to repeat.

    Sto Rox vs Serra Catholic
    Another battle. Sto rox has played one home game all year due to violence near their field. They haven’t played in a close game all year. Serra will keep it closer, but I think sto wins.

    1a semis
    Cornell vs Bishop Canevin
    Cornell did not have a football program as of 2016. They co-oped with a neighboring district. Bishop Canevin has also not been great recently. I Think BC pulls it out.

    Rochester vs OLSH
    Battle of conference foes. Rochester won in regular season but OLSH has really hit their stride. I think OLSH wins and we have a private school-private school final in 1a

  481. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    Brief comparison of strength of schedule in AA. Who has opponents still playing in week 13?

    Farrell – 0 teams from their regular season schedule are still competing.
    Sto Rox – 1 team (Avonworth) still competing in AAA.
    Steel Valley – 1 team (Serra Catholic) still competing in AA.
    Richland – 2 teams (Bedford, Central) still competing in AAA.
    SCA – 5 teams still playing, counting their scrimmage opponent (Valley View AAAA, Wyoming Area AAA, Wyomissing AAA, Danville AAA, MCA AA)

    As previously stated I believe this season’s schedule was SCA’s toughest, ever, and one of the toughest for any small school in PA – at least in the last 15 years. The next few weeks should be interesting. Could there be a repeat of the class A 95/96 final SCA vs Farrell?

  482. NW PA says:

    The rumor is Erie Cathedral has a ton of starters out tonight. If they aren’t healthy they won’t win.

  483. MikeS says:

    Jc No twice in the past Pennridge won the District semifinals on a Friday, then played the Thanksgiving game on Thursday, then played in the District Finals, there is NO History that says if Quakertown gets to the finals they would not play, None at all. The other side of this is Pennridge #9 seed in District 1, will have 2 weeks to prepare, whereas Quakertown will have Monday & Tuesday, so upset alert goes up.

  484. Jc says:

    I never said I didn’t like the 6 classes in the piaa. Why would I or anyone else want to take away state titles from the added one or two teams. Somebody is going to get hurt!!!! lol injuries only happen in blowouts I guess.

  485. FrankG says:

    @ Chief Red Raider It’s one of the results of the strange results of the PIAA playoff system. To take an extreme example: West Catholic was 2-7 before last week and Conwell-Egan was 8-2,with both teams having common opponents in most of their games. C-E beat WC 36-0 in the regular season, but WC beats CE 18-13 in the playoffs. It seems to me to make no sense to rank WC higher than C-E and if they were playing this weekend I know who I’d put money on, but WC is playing and C-E isn’t. Also can’t see why LaSalle falls so much in the rankings because they lost to SJP.

  486. Bj says:

    Red raider, Quakertown would not play the Thanksgiving game if they win the Garnet valley game.

  487. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – thanks for the assist, I would have echoed your response to both of Kevin’s questions, nice to have another Western voice on this board!

    Regarding the home field discussion for the district/state playoffs, the WPIAL uses neutral sights for the semi-finals and of course the finals, they used to only have first round games at home fields of the higher seed and then neutral for the rest of the playoffs, but since Covid now have the quarterfinals at home sights. It seems strange to me that all district finals are not at a neutral sight, particularly in the larger districts, I’ve always wondered why DI, for example, does not have their championship games at a neutral sight.

  488. Chief Red Raider says:

    Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of life, but does anyone wonder why teams that are no longer playing are ranked higher than teams that are? Weird. Or seeing teams that are still playing leapfrog ahead of other teams still alive despite having less impressive wins against common opponents. Again, not a big deal, but it just doesn’t make sense. In the end, the game results will determine it all.

  489. MikeS says:

    Jc, BJ, Buddy, Kmac

    Not really sure anymore who asked, about Quakertown, but I see teams from the Northern End of District 1, ie, Souderton, CB West, North Penn, Pennridge, Quakertown. My best guess is that Quakertown-North Penn would have been considered a toss up, I would have given a very slight edge to Quakertown on a neutral field. Keeping in mind that Pros get an approx 3 pt home field, college is over 4 pts, my guess that HS then works out to about 5 pt. Comparing similiar games, Quakertown is aprrox 14 (10 to 17) pts better than CBW. One of the wild cards is how much Ridley has progressed since earlier this season in comparing their Garnet Valley & North Penn games, which I’ve been told is they are alot better than earlier. I’d make Quakertown a 7 to 10 point road dog, but honestly know NOTHING about Garnet Valley. Quakertown’s biggest assests are defense, overall team speed, very balanced and exceptional Senior leadership. I’ve seen predictions of 42-14, 38-13. I suspect it will be much closer, and would not be totally shocked if the ball bounces right, they can’t win this. They are solid. Last thing is, that 5-6 days later they play a good Pennridge team, who’s had 2 full weeks to prepare, and Quakertown will have 2 practices to prepare for an archrival, so already putting out Upset warnings on that one. And if Quakertown would beat Garnet Valley they would have to play a District Final, 2 days after their Thanksgiving game. That Thanksgiving game has twice done in Pennridge.

  490. 4th&Forever says:

    Jerry, I think the chaos in PA for the first couple weeks of playoffs is more a reflection of how the districts are organized than the increase in classes. IMO, five classes is probably the sweet spot for a state where you have schools playing football with enrollments from under 200 up to almost 5,000. The only way I see them reducing the number of classifications from six is if a lot of schools wind up dropping football, and none of us want that. The six class genie is out of the bottle.

  491. The Joneses says:

    I keep seeing people make statements about injuries when teams with lessor talent, play against teams with greater talent. Am I missing some facts or data here? It would be one thing if the teams had post grad playing against the standard high team, but these statement being made is just blowing my mind. Just because a team is better, doesn’t mean they out weigh the opponent or bring more force. They could be equal in size and strength, but just execute better. Prep was destroying Souderton last year with the starters in. No one got hurt. Prep put the 2nd and 3rd string in, Souderton started destroying them was anyone afraid of someone being injured?

  492. FrankG says:

    @Matt I’m a Prep guy and an enthusiastic booster of the team. I agree they looked really good against LaSalle, but two weeks ago they were behind by 8 to Wood in the 4th quarter and won on a last minute field goal and the week before that Judge was on the Prep goal-line, down 8, with a minute to go. The fact that the Judge game was played in a relentless downpour may help explain why that game was so close, but those two games suggest the Prep may not simply roll to another state championship. I hope they win it all, but if they do I expect more than one very close game.

    One thing we know about hs football is that things like blocked punts, mishandled punts, snaps that go over the head of the QB, etc. happen a lot more frequently than in college or pro football. Against LaSalle the Prep punt returner mishandled a punt and a running back fumbled the ball in his own territory. Fortunately for the Prep, they recovered the ball in both instances–something that didn’t happen against Judge and Wood. LaSalle meanwhile had a punt blocked, a QB fumble that was returned for a score, a snap on the Prep goal line that resulted in something like a 40-yard loss, etc. None of this is to discount the fact that the Prep was the much better team last Saturday (partly because they blocked the punt, got to the QB to force the fumble, etc.) and fully deserved the win. But especially since they remain a very young team, I think it’s to be expected that miscues won’t happen to them in what’s ahead.

  493. Jerry Springer says:

    @JC and many other posters. I agree the way PIAA does playoffs is so disorganized and haphazard. Six classes is way too many.

    That being said Old Forge coach Mike Schubak (spelling?) doesn’t get the credit he deserves. The guy helps these kids put out results year after year. Fun fact Old Forge and that whole area has some cool history with the mob for all you history buffs. For how small that school is they perform year after year.

    But yeah these six classes definitely was a mistake. I get underdogs pulling an upset but how many blow outs and kids getting injured needs to happen? Maybe districts need to be restructured? What do I know though? At the end of the day they want to play the game.

  494. Matt says:

    Prep is just hitting its stride as a young team with a few senior leaders coming into form. They have proven for the last 5 years no one in PA is really on their level. You might even be able to push that number to 8 years. They will role to another state title. The machine keeps turning. They will be even better next year.

  495. mark dodgson says:

    @kevin x you know the answer to that NO like all tickets sites it has the fine print all sales are final !!!!!!

  496. Kevin X says:

    Direct from the PIAA Twitter account:

    “The location for the 1A football game between Old Forge and Williams Valley high schools has been moved to Dunmore HS. Kickoff is still set for Friday, November 19 at 7:00 pm. Tickets already purchased are still valid at the new site.”

    OK, so my question is, if you bought tickets on-line (only way you could, I assume) expecting the game to be at OF, but you can’t make it up to Dunmore for whatever reason, do you get your money back?? And the processing fee?? Small change (the processing fee at least) I realize, but more of a principle thing, to me anyway.

  497. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy

    Just remembered it wasn’t you but Sausmann who was so thrilled with Milton’s victory. I still think that if it were 5 days ago, no one is District 11 would be thinking the SJP would be the certain winner if they’re playing next week. If nothing else, the last few weeks have made clear that SJP is young and inconsistent.

  498. Buddy says:

    No, I wasn’t the one talking about SJP being beaten by a public school. Didn’t know they played a public school.

    The sound thrashing SJP put on LaSalle doesn’t bode well not only for the D11 champ, but any public school in Pa.

    Having said that, sure as hell hope I’m wrong!

  499. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy, Were you the person who talked about SJP being soundly beaten by a public school, Milton (GA)? Since then, of course, SJP lost to LaSalle, beat Judge by one TD in a very close game, and beat Wood on a last-minute FG. Why, then, should the D11 champion feel discouraged about playing them–if SJP beats Northeast?

  500. EmanD3 says:

    Not much secret to the 6A final in D3 between #2 in state Harrisburg and #8 Wilson. Severance Field, Harrisburg, 1:00, Sat.

    Harrisburg D has given up 37 pts., total, their last 5 wins.
    Wilson has rushed for 1700+ and 16TD’s in their last 5 W’s.

    HB is big and fast on both sides of the ball. Wilson OL has controlled the trenches during their 7 game win streak. Nothing will change here. Bulldogs will need to keep HB weapons off the field to get the W.

    They did it last week against CY, when no one gave them a chance. CY had the ball for a total of 14 min….5 min and 11 sec is the 2nd half!!

    No one is giving WWL a chance in this one either…Plus HB is good enough to win the state title…imo

    I’m saying that WWL needs 27 to get the W and I’m not sure they have the horses to get that done.

    Also on Sat. @ Wyomissing
    #2, undefeated, Wyo vs. #9 and 10-1 Boiling Springs….Two good defenses vs. two good offenses…will see which one gives

    Enjoy your weekend, wherever you will be watching

  501. Wpialguy says:

    @ Kevin x , to help Jeff H out, Clairton is not as strong as what they once were. They are still very good, but they haven’t had the star D1 player in the last couple years that can dominate. The school is also really struggling and the area is very blighted. I think they’ve had some kids go the private school route.

    As far as Butler, their program was struggling mightily playing a 6A schedule and in order to try to rejuvenate their program, they first went to an independent schedule where they can choose who they play. They are now an associate member of d10 in football only (they are in wpial in all other sports). This has become more common for struggling wpial programs in the last few cycles. Teams who consistently go winless want more control over their schedules to try and get wins and build a winning culture outside of the wpial gauntlet. Uniontown, Albert Gallatin, and in the next cycle, Brownsville will all be independent in football so that they can build their own schedules and play schools that will not beat them 77-0.

    Been reading this board for about two years but this is my first post! Just another voice out west!

  502. Buddy says:

    Freedom is the higher seed correct? Why aren’t they hosting Emmaus? Why go to the bother of seeding teams

    within a district and then throwing that all out in the finals? Never understood that. The winner of that has the

    privalege of playing SJP right? A bit discouraging ain’t it.

  503. Matt says:


    Dist 11 used to do higher seeds host until a few years ago …now all the championships are neutral for dist 11…..last weekend Northern Lehigh and Palmerton played at Lehighton, North Schuylkill and Him Thorpe played at Lehighton and ESS and Whitehall played at Lehighton. Northwestern and ACC played at Northern Lehigh and this week Emmaus and Freedom play at Whitehall for dist 11 6A championship.

  504. George says:

    I read what a poster on here said about Academy Park having athletes all over the field. So I went to see them against Unionville, how did they shut them out in the second half. They have a bunch of athletes and that will be tough for strath haven.

  505. Jc says:

    Canton 34 steel high 28
    Old forge 26 Williams valley 13

    Northern Lehigh 34 Lackawanna trail 16
    York catholic 20 west catholic 14
    Southern Columbia 41 mt. Carmel 20

    North schuylkill 27 Neumann Goretti 20
    Danville 21 montoursville 17
    Wyomissing 28 boiling springs 14
    Scranton prep 14 Wyoming area 13

    Acc 24 jersey shore 16
    Valley view 21 north Pocono 7
    Bishop Shanahan 27 Bonner prendie 13
    Bishop mcdevitt 31 berks catholic 14
    Lampeter strasburg 40 kennard dale 14

    Govenor mifflin 47 spring grove 14
    Exeter 31 cedar cliff 28
    Cathedral prep 47 ES south 20
    Imhotep 44 father judge 7
    Plymouth whitemarsh 34 wc Rustin 31
    Strath haven 27 academy park 14

    Harrisburg 20 Wilson 17
    State college 21 del valley 16
    Garnet valley 42 quakertown 17
    Coatesville 28 Ridley 27
    St. Joes 47 northeast 6
    Emmaus 14 freedom 10

  506. Buddy says:


    When the state went to 6 classes ( 6 or 7 years ago) the PIAA mandates all district games got to the higher seed.

    Previous, the D1 final was at a neutral site. Never did agree with the neutral site for districts. So that was good.

    After districts are done, all games go to neutral. Not sure if it’s the same out west.


    Q-Town did not have a very strong schedule. Actually, neither did GV, except for Ridley. But the GV/Q-Town match

    won’t even be close. The match du jour is Ridley/C’ville. Hope C’ville wins cause I’m a sore loser.

  507. BJ says:

    George, GV over Quakertown
    Ridley over Coatesville
    Haven over AP
    Rustin over PWM
    Should be 4 really good games with Coatesville and Ridley being another epic shootout, ending in a 40-40 type score. Ridley can’t stop good offenses but they’re hard to stop offensively. Whoever makes fewer turnovers will win that game. Strath Haven – Academy Park should be a tight close game also.

  508. BJ says:

    Does anybody have first hand knowledge of what Quakertown is all about? Trying to find out what kind of challenge they can give Garnet valley but just don’t know much about them. Obviously they must be good since they’re 12-0 and have great defensive numbers. Just wondering if anybody has an educated opinion as to whether they can beat GV?

  509. Matt says:

    @Buddy…..up in D11…..and other districts, once state playoffs begin (some begin this weekend in lower classes) all games usually are held at neutral site in years past. It’s usually closer to the host district but always was at neutral site. Just odd this year they are letting home district teams host at own stadiums. I remember NL played Wilkes Barre gar at J B crum in Allentown first round in 2010. And in 2003, NL played at New Oxford against Delone Catholic in first round. Dist 3 was host that year. This year, NL plays at home vs Lackawanna in first round. Good for my Dawgs but Lackawanna has to travel an hour and a half while NL gets to avoid any bus trip.

  510. George says:

    Very curious as to the picks for the 6A and 5A for everyone.

    GV over Quakertown
    Coatesville over Ridley

    Rustin over PW
    Academy Park over Strath Haven

  511. jc says:

    I’m aware there r district playoffs still. All the state playoff games should be on a neutral field or all should be on a home field. One or the other. How did both fit in the equation. Why not play all playoff games at 1 site in each district if needed. And play on Saturday’s with multiple games at these designated sites. Obviously a turf field would be needed but it would be great for fans and teams to be able to play in a triple header At shamokin areas field or north schuylkills field. Lehighton could host. Break up districts and create regionals. District 2,3,4 combine with the top 16 teams from each classification make regionals. You have to have a .500 record to qualify. If more than 16 qualify the lowest seeds play play in games. District 1, 11, 12 do the same as well

  512. Kevin X says:

    All first round PIAA playoff games for soccer (boys and girls) field hockey, and volleyball were all held at the higher seeds home field or gym (for the most part). I don’t recall these first round games in the past being contested at home fields/gyms. Then again, I really don’t follow these sports that closely either. Just odd how some of these football games are being held at home fields at the inter district state level games and others are not. Maybe D2 and D11 worked something out with the “A” and “2A” games since they are playing each other?? Maybe suitable neutral sites are still hard to come by, or school districts are asking for an arm and leg to host?? Then you have the school district of Philadelphia mandate………..Cardinal O’Hara is going to get a workout.

  513. Buddy says:

    Not all games are at the state level yet. This is only D1 semi-final. So no, it shouldn’t be at nuetral field.

    Next week is the D1 final, that will be at the higher seed and it should be or why have seedings?

    Nuetral field should only come in to play at Eastern/Western final and state finals

  514. Jc says:

    All these games this weekend should be on neutral fields. This is just about as stupid as the Piaa can be. State basketball playoff r not played on home courts. It’s really simple, all state games should be on a neutral field.

  515. JCo says:

    @NW PA: as an alum of South, while I’d love for the game to be close as you say, I don’t see it happening. The schedule in the EPC North is really soft, and only Parkland is anywhere close to what they’ll see in Cathedral Prep. Not to mention that they’re coming off an emotional victory that’s been a few years in the making. I think they’ll put up some points, but I don’t see how they can slow down ECP’s offense. I expect ECP to get out to a quick early lead and keep it comfortable the rest of the way.

  516. David Mika says:

    Kevin. I know. I don’t know why one team gets a home game and another game they have to play in a neutral site. I agree about ECP….

  517. Kevin X says:

    @ David M.

    Hollidaysburg?? I saw Bald Eagle Area, which actually makes sense. Hollidaysburg would still be a jaunt for ECP.

    Like Matt, I was going to question some of these sites too.

    Second week in a row Old Forge gets a home inter-district playoff game?? Yet Del Val and State College meet in Hazleton??

  518. Kevin X says:

    Via Twitter: “NE vs. St. Joes moved to Saturday 11/20/21 @ Cardinal O’Hara at 6pm. The school district refused to move off of the spectator limit so the PIAA has moved to game outside the city. There will be no spectator limit.” Game was originally scheduled for the NE Supersite (which in itself makes no sense as it is Northeast’s home field, on their campus). See now, the PIAA is actually capable of making smart sensible and logical choices and doing the right thing. Kudos PIAA. Now let’s work on these playoff brackets. You have it in you.

  519. Matt says:


    Thanks. Big advantage for NL….not having to ride a bus and Lackawanna having to travel close to an hour and a half. Thought it would be at lehighton or Palmerton. Yeah, they have been doing halfway games for teams on opposite side of state when they starting mixing sides in some classes. That’s makes more sense.

  520. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. I guess in the first round the home team can host. But they are making ES South go to Hollidaysburg
    so Cathedral Prep doesn’t have to travel across the state.

  521. Matt says:


    Just saw Northern Lehigh Athletics Twitter post that the game is at NL between NL and Lackawanna Trail? State playoffs normally are neutral location (usually closer to the hosting district). NL had a neutral dist championship but get a home state playoff game? I’m an NL graduate and hope they win but this is a big disadvantage for Lackawanna trail and I wouldn’t be happy if I was them. No bus ride for NL….that being said go Dawgs!

  522. Make-It-Make-Sense says:

    @ Kevin X

    My apologies, it was 56-0 in the 1st quarter.. The system needs to be revamp! Maybe go back to allowing the 1A through 3A District 12 teams play in a seeded point-system playoff tournament with the 1A through 3A teams from District 1.

    Teams who were winless for 2 or more years should play a JV schedule for a season.

    I don’t know but I agree with 4th and Forever..

  523. Kevin X says:

    @ Make it make sense

    Was that game seriously 62-0 in the first quarter?? That’s 9 TDs in 12 minutes or less. Is that even possible?? Halftime I can see. Did they even finish the game or mercifully called it at some point??

    @ Jeff H

    You seriously think anybody can reasonably explain District 12, more specifically the Philly Public League??

    Two quickies for ya: What happened to Clairton?? Yikes!! Second, When and why did Butler jump to District 10 (weren’t they a member of the WPIAL??)

  524. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff, my point is I don’t think 20% of all the schools in the state deserve to make the playoffs. The PIAA should do what it takes to bring organization to the districts. Some classes are figuratively twiddling their thumbs, playing meaningless games with predetermined outcomes, waiting for the real competition to start. Look at the Philadelphia Catholic League Blue division. Newmann-Goretti just played two opponents with one win between them in the first two rounds of the “playoffs.” While that’s hopefully the most egregious example, pairings between legitimate playoff teams and teams that have no business playing in the post season are plentiful in the first two weeks of districts. As an aside, I think Kipp has been a 3A team for years, though I couldn’t find any enrollment info for them.

    Also in the PCL Blue, West Catholic just bounced Conwell Egan 17-14 after having lost head to head by 30+ earlier in league play. While WC is a good program that plays a tough schedule, they were 2-5 in the same league Egan finished 5-2 in. Some see that as proof WC belonged, but I think it’s unfair to Egan who took care of business during the season, only to get bounced out by a team that didn’t and had one good day. LSS, I have no desire to exclude anyone who earned a spot in the postseason, but I think the season should mean something and the PIAA oversees the most disorganized HS athletics of anywhere I’ve lived.

  525. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. I am waiting on the PIAA to release them. I got some.

  526. Matt says:


    When will the times and locations of the state playoff games be announced?? I’m assuming sometime today?


  527. NW PA says:

    Anyone have an opinion on the Erie Cathedral-ESS game? I really think it’s going to be a very good and very close game. Let me explain. ESS has 3 losses but they are all to 6A teams. 2 of them have been top 10 ranked 6A teams or at least they were ranked in 6A for parts of the season. Their losses have all been fairly close. They have a pretty QB and and a big bruising running back who is also an excellent defensive lineman. They also play a fairly rough schedule so they are tested. Erie Cathedral is also battle tested. They beat a pretty talented St Francis and Canisius teams in very close games. They lost to a big and physical Mcdowell in a game that should have much closer, but that’s a story for another day. Prep is also beat up. Not sure about this week but they have had at least 2 starters out the last month and their staring middle linebacker has been out since week 1. It’s already known that their starting QB didn’t start last week so who knows what’s going on. If Cathedral is healthy, I think they wins a close, high scoring game.

  528. jc says:

    @ troll in tacony. 22-5 with my pics. Couldn’t have got the scores of my mom, she died two weeks ago. But I hope she gives you a little bit of karma while she’s looking down on your stupid comments. Nothing bad maybe the whooping cough or hoof and mouth disease.

  529. Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh wins dist 11 2A 64-34 over rival Palmerton. RB Matt Frame carried the ball 20 times for 330 yds and five tds. He had two tds over 50 yds. 6ft 1, 230 lbs. Northern Lehigh’s 3 losses were to 4A rival Northwestern (who lost Friday to central Catholic by a TD) by a missed two or conv., Notre Dame GP when they were ranked 4th in state in 3A, and North Schuylkill. They are 5-0 vs 2A and haven’t had a game within closer than a 29 or win against a 2A school. They could be a sleeper in 2A but would have to face southern in eastern final if they get there….and that would most certainly be a tough task.

  530. Troll says:

    Neumann Goretti vs Kipp Dubois was 62-0!!!!
    JC’s mom was almost right with her score of 69-0!!!!

  531. Jeff H. says:

    @4th&Forever – the rest of the state is not waiting while the larger districts conduct their playoffs, they are playing each week against other districts after their district playoffs have concluded so I don’t understand your point. To me if a district has 1/3 of the teams statewide in a given class logic dictates they get 1/3 of the playoff qualifiers, which is more or less what happens in the current system. No matter what you do to rearrange the state playoffs I don’t see how you do it in any less than 5 weeks, if you go to 4 weeks the max number of teams that could make the playoffs in each class is 16, which would mean well less than 20% of the schools in each class statewide would make the playoffs and that is never going to fly in this state. As an extension of your argument why not just exclude districts from the playoffs that have either never won a state title or only 1 or 2 state titles in history, how many schools from Districts 5, 8 and 9 have ever won a state title, so why bother letting them participate in the state playoffs if they have zero chance?

  532. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – i agree with you, good luck to all the teams left in 6A, not surprised Prep won but shocked at how they dominated. Looking at the remaining teams IMO there are only 2 that have a shot to beat them, Garnet Valley and Pittsburgh CC. They should roll next week over Northeast, I can’t see the D11 winner (Emmaus/Freedom) beating them the following week and of the D1 teams remaining I give GV the best shot like Buddy said. On the western side of the bracket you can eliminate the 4 schools not in D3 and D7, Mt Lebanon would be a big underdog against SJP and as much as I hate to say it I think PCC beats them next week for the WPIAL title. No disrespect to Wilson or Harrisburg but I don’t like how either of them matchup against SJP, Harrisburg has the athletes to hang in there but I think their lack of depth would catch up to them in the 2nd half. To me it’s looking like another PCC vs. SJP state final, sure hope I’m wrong, and one or both of them lose, but as of now that’s how it looks from here.

    @Make-It-Make-Sense – that’s what happens when you have 6 classes and only a few teams in a given class in the district, there are 4 3A teams in D12, 3 Catholic schools and Preparatory Charter School. The question I have is why in the world is Kipp playing in 3A, when according to the enrollment figures on the PIAA website they have 30 boys in grades 9-11 while Goretti has 215. Can anyone who follows D12 explain this?

  533. Kevin X says:

    The Prep is still very much alive and well. 35-0 at halftime over LaSalle (35-7 final). Good luck to all of those still remaining in 6A.

  534. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff H, I don’t think state championships are the goal or be all end end all for high school athletics.. As far as tradition goes, the Inter-Academic Conference has schools that are older than America, don’t participate in playoffs and they excel in both academics and athletics. If a district decides it’s tradition is more important than participating in the state playoffs, I respect that. However, expecting the rest of the state to wait for the outcome of a title contender against a winless team or winnowing down a field of 16, most of which had zero chance, doesn’t make sense. These are things I’ve never seen anywhere but Pennsylvania, and it’s particularly pronounced in Philly and it’s suburbs. Do that in a larger state and you’d be playing into the next year.

  535. BJ says:

    Some fantastic football games in District 1 last night. Ridley and North Penn in an epic scoring battle which was easily predictable. Nobody can stop Ridley from scoring and Ridley can’t stop anybody from scoring. Ridley-Coatesville and Garnet Valley-Quakertown should be some great football games. If Ridley doesn’t get it done this year they will be the preseason District 1 favorite as they only have 4 seniors on the team and most importantly their junior quarterback, who gets better every week will be back. Hoping to see a Garnet Valley- Ridley rematch for the District 1 championship in 2 weeks. Love this time of year.

  536. Make-It-Make-Sense says:

    The unprofessional mentality of Phila Pub administrators is stinking of outright incompetence.

    How can a 0-7 KIPP HS play a 9-1 Goretti HS for the city championship and guest what, it’s 62-0 in the 1st quarter.


  537. Buddy says:

    C’ville by 2 scores, GV might just mercy rule. NP was over-ranked ( #2), a 4seed would be more appropriate.

    Defense has been their archilles heel all year. Caught up to them last night. D1 & d11 teams demise is ineveitable ,

    I think GV can have the best showing against the PCL champ. But that is probably a foregone conclusion also. And the beat goes on…………..

  538. Jeff H. says:

    @4th&Forever – You might be right about the PIAA having the power to put the hammer down on the districts, but why would they want to do that? The district playoffs have significant meaning in some parts of this state, and I can’t see shipping teams from one district to other districts just to balance the state playoff bracket and totally eviscerate the district playoffs. Districts should have a right to determine their district champion with how they see fit, and their champion enters the state bracket depending on how the PIAA sets up the brackets. As I posted earlier I could see cutting down the playoffs by a week, with a maximum of 3 weeks for the larger districts, and then the final two weeks for the state semi’s and finals, but I don’t get why anyone would be in favor of not letting districts determine how they structure their playoff to determine a champion, we have full district playoffs in all other sports and the state playoffs seem to work out ok.

  539. Chief Red Raider says:

    Were there quite a few upsets last night across the state — or just bad rankings? (I think the latter). The Green Raiders vs. the Red Raiders should be a good game — especially since Christmas is around the corner. I haven’t seen Quakertown play, but it sounds like they have a pretty good defense — enough to worry Garnet Valley?

  540. EmanD3 says:

    Some really great HS football last night. A tough night for some really good, highly ranked teams

    Undefeated Central York, North Penn, Shippensburg..all out, plus some very skilled one loss teams..Parkland, Manheim Central and Lakeland gone.

    As for Pribula and Central York, a couple of things really stuck out.

    -Wilson WL 62/347 on the ground..I mean that’s a wow! CY run D had been pretty stellar all year long. WWL had 4, 13+ play drives…they fumbled on 1st down at CY 5, and had a 1st an goal at CY 2, that was also stalled by two straight penalties.

    -Time of possession, WWL 34 CY 14…Wilson OL dominated… CY DL was gassed by end of the 3rd Q….I’m guessing that was the first time since the SJP game ly.

    – CY rushing numbers.. .11 carries for 11yds, 0 td’s…Pribula 6 carries for 1 yd. CY had rushed for almost 750 yds and 10 td’s their last 4 games, including 168 last week against Manheim Township

    Pribula did everything he could, but once they became one dimensional( and that didn’t take long, CY’s first two drives…3 & out and 5 plays and done)…he was under the gun the rest of the night. 4 sacks, multiple hurries, tipped balls and even after many completions he was hit hard and on the ground.

    Wilson will have their hands full next week, no matter who they play. Hempfield is better than their record…and even though Harrisburg is state ranked, they didn’t get much love after getting blown out by Mifflin in Sept, but they are a very good, explosive team.

    Should be a very interesting finals week, all around. Thanks for listening!

  541. Kevin X says:

    A really good night for Delco last night. Mare Sheehan is one happy camper this morning 🙂

  542. Wilson4Ever says:

    The unthinkable happened tonight at the Wilson vs. Central York game in York with everyone picking CY and there #1 all state QB with Wilson winning and everyone heavily picking Central York. The Wilson QB Brad Hoffman and the Wilson running back Jadyn Jones were running it down their throat all night and were unstoppable with around 330 yards. Also the Wilson defense was swarming and sacked Beau Pribula like 6 times I believe and forced him to throw a pick and he was also running for his life and on the ground a lot. If it wasn’t for some penalties and also a fumble by Jadyn Jones both in the red zone Wilson could have had two more scores. Before I finish my post I was just wondering if it is remembered by some of people on this forum the terrible trashing the Wilson QB Brad Hoffman took earlier this year basically saying he was a bust and a terrible QB on every level from Berks Catholic that wouldn’t be missed by them? Well he reinvented himself into an unstoppable running QB that has run for over 1000 yards now and throws when he has to for important scores at critical times. I’m just saying they were rather harsh over the top statements that were also uncalled for IMO. I’m sure trash talking isn’t something that belongs or is condoned on this forum. Brad Hoffman didn’t deserve that then and especially now. Just saying trash talking can come back to bite you sometimes.

  543. Jeff H. says:

    @Buddy – totally agree with you the PIAA should have expanded to 5 classes and not 6, I and many others said that on this board 5yrs ago when it happened. I don’t foresee the PIAA admitting they made a mistake and go to 5 classes, but it would make sense to do so.

    @EmanD3 and Scott Hagy – you guys were right about Wilson, I agreed CY was on upset alert and Wilson pulled it off. I was at the Mt Lebo game tonight and they survived against NA 28-17, which was the score at halftime. Lebo’s QB got hurt and did not play the 2nd half, but their offense was out of sync all night, if it wasn’t for 2 defensive TD’s and a punt return for a TD they wouldn’t have won that game. If the QB can’t play next week they won’t beat PCC, and even if he does play they need to clean a lot of things up to beat them again.

    @Ryan – agree Academy Park might win D1, but then they would play the winner of Erie Prep vs. Imhotep and I think their season ends there.

  544. Ryan says:

    Team with Speed beat North Penn
    Academy Park being good and going far
    Coatesville going pretty far

    Check, check, check

  545. Jay says:

    Wild and crazy night tonight. Coatesville almost blew the game in epic fashion but survived due to a failed onside kick by Perk Valley, and will now host Ridley next week, who eked by North Penn in OT. I have no idea what to expect from next weeks matchup.

    Quakertown remains undefeated and faces off against similarly undefeated Garnet Valley. Not sure what to expect there either. I lean toward Garnet Valley, for what it’s worth, but it’s not worth much.

    WC Rustin continues to cruise along in 5A. I think they play Academy Park next week. Again the common theme here is I have no idea about that one either.

    Which all in all makes it very exciting.

  546. EmanD3 says:

    Bulldogs shock the world. WWL 14 Central York 11. Wilson runs for 345 and OL dominates. Pribula sacked 4x, picked once, hurried all night and on the ground multiple times after the throw

  547. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Great “upset” win by Wilson over highly touted Central York. No rain needed either, for Bulldogs to control the stellar CY QB.

  548. Troll says:

    @ Kevin X Here’s my score for Kipp Dubois vs Neumann-Goretti 69-0

    I got this score from JC’s Mom!!!!!!!!

  549. Buddy says:

    I never did agree jumping from 4A to 6A. 5A would have sufficed. Would have eliminated the huge range in classes.

    Love to see this broached to the PIAA. But i guess no one wants to go backwards, even tho it be logical.

  550. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – you are correct about the WPIAL initially being a big opponent of the move to 6 classes, the main reason was they would no longer be able to hold all their district championship games at Heinz Field on the same day. The WPIAL had been holding all 4 championships at Heinz (and before Heinz 3 Rivers Stadium) for decades and the WPIAL did not want to mess with that tradition, I’m not sure what concessions if any the PIAA made to get the WPIAL on board but I do know there were a lot of conversations and debates between the 2 organizations.

    @Foleman – I’m with you in rooting for Garnett Valley to get to the state final, being a WPIAL guy I’m hoping Mt. Lebanon makes it from the West, I think it would be great to have Garnett Valley vs. Mt Lebo in the 6A final, who would have predicted that before the season started. In that same vein I’m rooting for Belle Vernon to get to get to the 4A final, they have had a solid program for years but have never made it to Hershey and this might be their best team in school history, their QB Devon Whitlock is the most dynamic player in the WPIAL in years and it would be great for the rest of the state to see him on the big stage.

    @Buddy – I agree a 5 week playoff can be done, but the PIAA would need to twist the arms of some districts to get them to agree, most notably the WPIAL. If you go to a 5 week state playoff that leaves 3 weeks for the districts and the last 2 weeks for the state semi-finals and finals, and that would eliminate many of the teams with losing records making the playoffs. I personally would favor a 9 week regular season and the current playoff format, but keeping a 10 week regular season with 5 weeks of playoffs would be ok.

    What some people who complain about teams with losing records making the playoffs don’t take into account is the problem was exacerbated with the move to 6 classes I know there were some teams in the old 4 class format that made the playoffs with losing records, but not nearly as many as now with 6 classes, there just aren’t enough schools in some classes in each district to avoid a number of teams with losing records making the playoffs under the current format.

  551. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff H, I think the PIAA has the power to do what it wants with state playoffs, it just chooses not to exercise it. Sometimes the king needs to drop the hammer to get the little fiefdoms in line. In D1, you’ve only got four schools in the bottom three classifications (A-AAA) and ,as you say, a third of the 6A schools. It makes no sense to have everyone else wait for D1 to crown a champion. Move some of the 6A playoff qualifiers to other districts and have the small schools find leagues that fit their classification. Yes, that means some very long bus trips in league play, but in a lot of places, that’s the norm.

    As far as the WPIAL not wanting to participate in states if it means giving up their current district playoffs. So what? When I was in HS (big pads, not leather helmet days) we had no state playoffs for football and two of the largest “sections” as we called them on my state, chose not to participate in the “state” tournament in basketball. It worked out fine for everyone and eventually the two sections that didn’t participate in basketball joined up and made it a true state tourney and they’ve got a true state football tournament now. Eventually, everyone sees the light.

  552. 4th&Forever says:

    Buddy, don’t know if you’re from SE PA, but the SOL is actually three different conferences. The “National” is, as you say all 6A… the heavy hitters like North Penn. The “Colonial” is a mix of 5 and 6A. The “American” is a hot mess. It’s a mix of 3A (possibly dropping to 2A), running up to big 5A (Cheltenham was a few points/seconds from the 5A title a few years ago), to weak 6A programs. The 3A program didn’t score a meaningful point in league play this year. What I’ve seen done in other states is adjusting a team up or down a classification (no more) to make the league work geographically. The next option is some long road trips (probably “and”) but I personally think that’s preferable to mismatches in league and six weeks of playoffs where the first two are meaningless blowouts in many districts and classes. Going from six to five classes and increasing the time between reclassifications would probably add a little stability. As you can tell, I’m not a fan of points systems except as tie breakers.

  553. Ryan says:

    Deciding between going to Academy Park/Unionville or PV/Coatesville

  554. mark dodgson says:

    Neumann in the playoff these are district playoffs they are playing a team that 0-6 and had to beat a team that was 1-9 to get their these are playoffs !!!!!!!!! and no one sees a problem here ???????

  555. Kevin X says:

    Let me clarify/update my last post. This mandate/restriction is only for games taking place on school district properties, such as the supersites. This won’t affect the SJP/LaSalle game at Franklin Field on Saturday.

  556. Kevin X says:

    I just saw a notice issued by the School District of Philadelphia issuing a mandate that for any high school football games going forward played within the city limits there is a 4 ticket limit for each player and person associated with the team. Basically you have to be on an authorized guest list to get into the game. If this was the reason the PIAA moved, or scheduled the Belmont Charter/Old Forge game to Old Forge, good for them (PIAA). I’ll get on the PIAA for a lot of things, but if they moved the game out of the city, kudos to them. I hope they have the ability to move every playoff game not involving 2 Public League teams out of the city. I believe this is more of a potential of violence issue than Covid, but who knows, maybe both, maybe something else.

  557. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Wasn’t the WPIAL one of, if not the biggest, vocal opponents of the PIAA moving from 4 to 6 classes in football 6,7 years ago?? Did the PIAA make any concessions or promises to the WPIAL to get them on board, appease them, or otherwise make the transition smoother??

  558. Foleman says:

    When it comes to HS Football, their isn’t much equity in PA. You see the same schools competing for Championships every year due to a variety of reasons and it’s been this way for many years. It would be nice to see an annual doormat come out of nowhere and win a State Championship but I can’t remember any school in the PIAA doing that. I live in Berks County, you the see the same schools competing for District Championships every year-Wilson, Mifflin, Wyomissing, Berks Catholic, the rest of the schools, Forget it. Catholic League-Prep-LaSalle-Wood, NG Public League-Tep I would love to see Garnet Valley win 6A this year instead of the same teams we see every year in 6A. This could be the year in Berks with 5A Mifflin looking like a strong favorite and 3A Wyomissing looking to avenge last years loss in the State Championship game.

  559. jc says:

    Troll @ The dollar tree in tacony.

  560. mark dodgson says:

    @ Kevin x last year Steelton had too play at old forge of course last year was a crazy year and last year i was told lack of neutral sites because of Covid i don’t know if that plays a hand in this years ;locations may be no sites available ? taken by the Kipp DuBois Neumann-Goretti game wouldn’t want to interfere with that match up

  561. WS says:

    @kevin x
    Your right it should be that was a last minute decision by the piaa it was suppose to be down in in the district 1 site but Bristol lost and from what I know belmont does not have a home field it would have been played in belmont but since it’s a district playoff and not a state playoff piaa said it was going to be played at old forge

  562. Buddy says:


    I like the idea of reviewing teams every 2 years to adjust their classification. In the SOL league (largest in the state) they are all 6A teams.

    However, the Del-Val league only has 2 or 3 are 6A schools, if you didn’t throw in some 5A schools, you won’t have a league. If you

    wanna have leagues all the same class, teams would have to travel an un-godly amount of distance to play. BTW, a 5-week state playoff

    could easily be done, it used to be that way.

  563. Kevin X says:

    No idea how this game got left off of this weekends list of must see games…….0-6 Kipp DuBois v. Neumann-Goretti. Included in Kipps 6 losses are 5 shutouts. They have scored all of 8 points this season. And this is actually being called a District Championship game. I hope all of you who have been preaching a “chance for an upset” make your way to South Philly Saturday afternoon to witness this instant classic.

  564. Kevin X says:

    @ WS

    Since you brought up Old Forge, why are they hosting that game against Belmont Charter?? Shouldn’t the game be down in the Philly area or at least at a neutral site somewhere in between the two schools??

  565. Troll says:


    Where did you get those scores? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

  566. jc says:

    I can’t wait for basketball season and wrestling season. It will be so much fun to see how many new schools in Philly pop up and win and see how many private schools dominate with kids from everywhere in the world. I can’t wait to see how many kids becha and notre dame of green pond have been able to get and transfer this year. It’s so much better than 19 weeks of football. And the one week where there r blowouts. I’d rather watch Kennedy catholic beat Lourdes regional by 50 for a state title in class a and then move up to 6a the following year. Makes for competitive basketball and fun fun fun. Southern gets accused of recruiting from its next door neighbor mt. Carmel and shamokin but I’m basketball there bringing kids from Nigeria to play basketball and somehow that’s normal, lol. Yeah shorten football for basketball.

  567. Jeff H. says:

    @ 4th and Forever – different classes in the same conference is the fault of the districts and the schools, not the PIAA. In the WPIAL only teams from the same class are in a conference, and every two year cycle the WPIAL moves teams around to adjust as needed, having teams from different classes in the same conference is a foreign concept in SW PA. Top 3 or 4 teams in each conference make the playoffs depending on the class, no point system involved except when head to head can’t break a tie for a playoff spot, out of conference games don’t matter for conference standings although they can factor into playoff seeding, so we get a lot of very competitive nonconference games out West.

    One issue with PA compared to other states is the districts have been conducting playoffs for decades, the WPIAL playoffs go back almost 100 years, and some districts even further, while the state playoffs are relatively new starting in 1988. Another issue is there is a wide disparity in size among the districts in PA, it makes it tough to put together state playoff brackets when a district like D1 has more than one-third of the teams in 6A, while other districts have a handful of teams in a given class, and in some cases no teams in a class.

    I’m flat out telling you the WPIAL places a lot more emphasis on their district playoffs than the state playoffs, and they are never going to agree to a 2 game district postseason like you suggest, if the PIAA tried to do that the WPIAL would threaten to not participate in the state playoffs, if that happens you don’t really have a state playoff if the largest and most successful district boycotts. If you think that would never happen you don’t know the attitude of the powers that be in this part of the state, which is a big reason why we’re not likely to see a shorter than 6 week postseason anytime soon, and certainly not 4 weeks, I can’t foresee the football playoffs ever being less than 5 weeks.

  568. jc says:

    Why not shorten the basketball season and wrestling season and stop allowing student athletes in both sports to play in summer basketball leagues and aaus in basketball and stop wrestlers from wrestling in off season tournaments.

  569. Buddy says:


    I don’t really see any barn burners this weekend, except SJP/LaSalle. On paper anyway.


    I agree almost entirely. Post season should be 4 weeks. If one makes the state final, that’s their 6th post season game.

    I think it’s ok mixing classes ( i.e. 6A playing 5A). How many 6A teams would beat Govenor Mifflin?

    Shouldn’t be allowed more then one class up or down ( i.e. 3A shouldn’t play 5A). I think our point system

    is pretty equitable. How else would you do it? Leave it up to seeding committe’s opinion? Allows for too much bias.

  570. Matt says:

    My D11 picks for this weekend…

    Tri Valley 28- Williams Valley 7

    Northern Lehigh 34- Palmerton 20 (will be closer than NL blowout win in week 10…it’s a rivalry after all but NL is better team).

    NS 42 -Jim Thorpe 13

    NW 31 – ACC 23 (might be best team NW has ever had….).

    ESS 21 – Whitehall 14

    Parkland 17- Emmaus 14

    Freedom 34 – Northampton 27.

    And a bonus LaSalle – SJPrep score…..Prep gets revenge 17-13.

  571. Jc says:

    Tri valley 26 Williams valley 12
    N. Lehigh 41 Palmerton 35
    N. Schuylkill 33 Jim Thorpe 20
    Acc 27 nw Lehigh 23
    Es south 21 Whitehall 20
    Parkland 17 Emmaus 7
    Freedom 24 Northampton 14

    Canton 28 muncy 21
    Southern Columbia 47 south Williamsport 7
    Mt. Carmel 36 Troy 19
    Danville 20 loyalsock 17
    Montoursville 44 Milton 13
    Jersey shore 17 selingsgrove 13

    Steel high 58 delone catholic 18
    York catholic 36 upper dauphin 27
    Wyomissing 48 Middletown 6
    Boiling springs 26 Hamburg 14
    Bishop mcdevitt 56 northern York 0
    Berks catholic 34 cocalico 20
    Lampeter strasburg 37 big spring 33
    Kennard dale 16 donegal 14
    Govenor mifflin 48 Warwick 13
    Spring grove 26 Waynesboro 22
    Mannheim central 34 Exeter 31
    Cedar cliff 21 shippensburg 20
    Central York 31 Wilson 21
    Hempfield 20 harrisburg 14

  572. 4th&Forever says:

    I tend to agree with Mike from Tacony. I’ve lived in five different states and have to say PA is far and away the most disorganized of them all. Teams from as many as four different classes in the same league and a lack of coordination between the PIAA and districts are the root causes. In a state the size of PA, the time from league play ending until the state champions are crowned shouldn’t be more than four weeks. Match teams of the same class in leagues and the league champion automatically makes the playoffs… period. No complaining about who had a stronger schedule because everyone plays the same teams in league, including head to head. Want to make the playoffs? Take care of business in season! There’s also no penalty for playing tougher opponents in non-league play, which would make for better inter league match ups. A points system should only come into play for figuring at large bids from among the second place teams from across the state.

    As to the comments about the length of the season not mattering, I heartily disagree. As we all know, football is a not a contact sport, it’s a collision sport and the season tends to be a war of attrition, which is particularly hard on smaller schools. No sport deals with anything close to the percentage of season ending injuries. Also, I think it does matter that wrestling and basketball coaches don’t get all of their kids until football season is over. Football coaches pretty much own their kids from the end of the school year until November, including the three weeks of practice before school or the season even begin.

  573. WS says:

    Yes all of those are good games but I think old forge vs belmont charter is gonna be good as well belmonts only loss this year is from steelton high old forge has not loss a game this season again they are the number one seed in class a

  574. WS says:

    Alot of great games ur right but old forge vs belmont charter should be good as well look into it the only team belmont lost to was steelton high

  575. EmanD3 says:

    Some good games on tap this weekend!

    SJP @ Lasalle
    Perk Valley @ Cville
    Ridley @ NP
    Qtown @ DEast
    WWL @ Central York
    Exeter @ MC
    Emmaus @ Parkland
    Lakeland @ Wyoming Area
    Middletown @ Wyomissing

  576. The Joneses says:

    A lot of heat (or hot air) on this board lately. I guess many are in playoff form.

  577. WS says:

    I do not understand why on this page the small school in old forge which in mind is ranked number one both on this site and penn live in class A is never mentioned or recognized these kids and coaches play their heart out year after year no matter if they win or lose they always play hard it’s always phillyvteams or larger schools mentioned I feel these kids need some regonition for a job well done so far this season and even last year’s season which if no one knows came ohh so close to going to the state finals if not losing to steelton high by not much and from what I know steelton high is also a powerhouse team so please take a look at this small town schoolteacher deserve it thank you

  578. Jeff H. says:

    @ Mike In Tacony – so what’s your solution to cut down on the number of playoff teams that all the large districts would agree to? If you think the WPIAL is going to go along with only 3 weeks for district playoffs in classes 1-5 you don’t understand how the system works, and the emphasis placed on the district playoffs in this part of the state. There are very few schools in each class that have a realistic chance to win a state title each year, a handful at most, there are a lot more teams that have a chance to win a district title so the emphasis is on the district playoffs for the vast majority of schools in this state. What’s the issue with having 12 teams instead of 8 make the district playoffs, which gives the top 4 seeds byes, isn’t it better for those top teams that have a chance to win a district and perhaps compete for a state title to have a week off after playing for 10 straight weeks.

    Do you really think it’s going to make a big difference to shorten the season by 1 week, which is the most you can do, otherwise you eviscerate the district playoffs. I’m actually not opposed to shortening the season, but I would reduce the regular season by 1 game instead of shortening the postseason, it wasn’t all that long ago that we had a 9 week regular season in this state until a week 0 game was added. There have been quite a few low seeded teams who went on magical playoff runs in the WPIAL over the years that would not have occurred if your limited playoff format was in effect for districts, I could start to list some of them, but it would take way too long, probably as long as it would take you to list all the mercy rule playoff games last weekend.

  579. Jerry Springer says:

    I am all for letting players play the game. At what point will it injure players on both sides? Why not let teams schedule post ten game contingency weeks and possibly expand eastern conference for teams that can’t simply compete with the upper echelon of teams? Not every town and program is created equally but if a team wants to lose 55-0 by all means.

  580. FrankG says:

    @ Mike in Tacony,

    I’m sure I’m not the only one who hopes you don’t leave. A diversity of opinions is a good thing.

    I have no strong opinions on whether fewer teams should be in the playoffs, but it is certainly my impression that the number and percentage of mismatches have been increasing in recent years. I’m not sure because final scores sometimes are misleading, e.g. last year’s SJP-Souderton state semifinal. I expect quite a number of schools will give up football in the next 5-10 years since rosters are generally shrinking and there are bigger gaps between schools that have real football “programs” and schools (including some relatively large ones) that have a difficult time fielding a team.

    Your idea of matching schools that had poor or mediocre seasons for Thanksgiving games doesn’t seem all that feasible to me. For one, they’d have to be quite close geographically. No one wants to travel 20 miles on Thanksgiving morning to play a team that’s not a natural rival. I really miss the old Thanksgiving games, but they worked as traditions: the same schools playing each other year after year.

  581. Jc says:

    Mike from Tijuana your a legend in your own mind. I feel as if you hi five yourself a lot. I’m more than likely younger than you by the way and I think you won every argument on here as well. Your my hero. Hi five!!!!!

  582. Mike in Tacony says:

    Ah, this is fun.

    Eman, I never said I was the all-knowing anything. I was asked how I know what kids are thinking and I said I have kids in high school and talk to them and their friends, and I stated that “many” aren’t excited to get mercy-ruled. Because they aren’t. Others made absolute statements such as yours that “all of the NL kids were pumped”. No, they weren’t “all” pumped. And to pre-empt you, no, the fact that you attended the game (BTW, I hope to god you have a kid on the team or lost some sort of wager to have attended) doesn’t give you some unique insight into everyone’s thoughts. As far as the super witty retorts about me “playing badminton” and not playing sports in my youth, you guys are imbeciles if you think that (now that’s an insult, but in this case, it’s also objectively true). Yes, I frequent a high school football forum because I didn’t play sports in my youth. Well done. I actually played four sports in high school and two D1, and based on the discourse I can assure you that not only did I not peak at age 17, as did many in this forum, apparently, but I also took the “scholar” component of my scholar-athlete designation a lot more seriously.

    Jac, I’m in no way upset and was not insulting anyone (until now, since you guys so kindly set me up for such easy dunks). I happen to enjoy trashing folks so I’m quite the opposite of upset! Second, it’s not an insult to make factual statements such as someone’s grammar sucks and someone’s reading comprehension is lacking. Speaking of… regarding why we should ask teachers: because education should be the priority of secondary school, not sports, you loser (again, that’s an insult). Regarding an extra week of practice: once again, reading comprehension. I said teams with non-winning records should schedule a Thanksgiving Day game (or whenever) against an equally matched opponent. That would shorten the season from 19 weeks to 18 weeks since they could get rid of the 6th playoff week; that would eliminate many of these mercy rule outcomes; that would get developing teams an extra week of practice; that would reduce injuries; and, that would give said teams a winnable final game for their seniors. Win-Win-Win-Win-Win. Finally, regarding speaking for every high school athlete, and for the third and final time: reading comprehension. I said that’s the opinion of many. Words have meaning. Learn them.

    JC, spare me your 1950s view of football, that adults shouldn’t care about children getting injured. You’re just another benighted Al Bundy, living in the past and taking high school football far too seriously (again, those are insults). Regarding the Eastern Conference playoffs, I’m well aware of what they are and you’re arguing with a straw man. There aren’t 10-0 vs. 4-6 games in the EC playoffs because the 10-0 teams are in districts. The EC system inherently delivers far more even matchups than districts because it pulls from a smaller pool of teams. That’s just how statistics work and the historic game results bear out the fact that the EC is more competitively balanced. You finished this exchange something like 0-for-8. Something tells me you are accustomed to that sort of result.

    Now, since you guys metaphorically just decided to lie there, convulsing, instead of putting up any sort of an intellectual fight that would challenge me, I’m out. XOXO

  583. Buddy says:


    Rain is supposed to end well before KO. late morning/early afternoon.

    let’s hope the sooth-sayers are right.

  584. phillyboy says:

    I tell you right now, North Penn better bring their “A” game against Ridley this Friday night. I believe Ridley’s only loss was to Garnet Valley, the #1 seed — and they were even until the second half when GV pulled away. Watched a little bit of Ridley’s game against Conestoga the other night, they’re dangerous, yo. They got a RB by the name of Tahir Mills who rushed for 357 yards against ‘stoga. Not to be hyperbolic but it looked like a young Bo Jackson out there. I’m sure Coach Beck will game plan accordingly. Unlike against St. Joe’s Prep or LaSalle, might be able to focus on a particular player and get away with it. Does Ridley have enough secondary options, we’ll see.

  585. jc says:

    Eastern conference playoffs is about allowing teams who don’t make the district playoffs to play for a championship and get as many as two extra games in. It does not factor in whether teams r evenly matched. It’s simply a rating system that takes the highest seed from those teams who didn’t make the district playoffs. Why would you make statements on everything even though you have no knowledge of it. Ec uses much the same system with which your so much against only with fewer teams making ec playoffs. You really can’t condemn the way districts r played but yet say ec does things differently. Lol you never played any sports did you?

  586. Footballguy28 says:

    Rain is in the forecast for Friday in the Philly Area. Definitely going to change some gameplans

  587. jc says:

    I thoroughly enjoyed going from football to basketball to track and field when I was in high school. If I didn’t I would have quit. Crying about 19 weeks of football when the basketball season is longer and more drawn out then football. Just because you hit and get hit in football doesn’t mean it takes more of a toll then basketball. Football is 1 game a week!!!!! Most schools only play 10 to 12 games. The rest is just practice. Basketball is more than double the games and the travel and frequency of games far outweighs anything football does in the time and travel involved. Non league games, tournaments, league games, league playoffs, districts, states is long and time consuming. No days off in basketball. So if your fake basketball friend coaches complain about the length of the football season maybe they should look in the mirror.

  588. jc says:

    You people r insane. Why don’t we just poll the hs sports journalists at the beginning of the season and see who they think r the top two teams in each classification and they play on turkey day for the state title. We don’t want anyone getting hurt. All the other teams can play two hand touch games with a 7 point mercy rule so no one sprains a wrist, lol!!!!!!! What if someone gets hurt? Then they get hurt!!!! As much as it sucks then it wasn’t meant to be!!!!!! North schuylkill lost there quarterback to a spinal injury two years ago in the last game of the season. Took away a chance to win a state title. Took away a chance to even win a district title. Was that ok for them to play that game or should they have forfeited that game so there players don’t get hurt??? Go to a different sport if you can’t handle watching a hs football game.

  589. Jac Mac says:

    @Mike in Tacony let me see if I can respond to you in a manner that is not condescending… since you seem to be getting upset and insulting others while complaining about it as well. It take a special arrogance to do that.

    1. You would ask Basketball Coaches? We of course should ask them because they don’t get kids practicing basketball all year long. So let’s end football season to placate the basketball people even more.

    2. We should ask teachers? What say should a science teacher have in the length of a sports season? Why don’t we ask teacher about basically every sport in every season about early dismissal? Cross country and tennis played state tournaments in the middle of a school day.

    3. The majority of schools are done playing football well before winter sports season starts. Only a handful of schools will play 18 weeks of football. Why does basketball season last 5 months and then they play 3 more months in the summer?

    4. Football is completely different than any other sport. Playing an extra game gets you an extra week of practice, an extra week of practice is enormous for a young football team. Winter sports start November 19th, why is it a problem if football played an extra game a full 2 weeks before Bball starts?

    5. Lastly the HS kids you talk to speak for every high school athlete? Nobody can think differently? It sounds like you have an anti football agenda.

  590. EmanD3 says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    Who made you the all knowing, sooth sayer for the mindset of all HS football players/athletes? Of course kids want to play in the post season, no matter what their survival chances might be! As someone who played three sports from 8-18 this is what you play for! Having fun, building relationships and goal setting is what sports is all about…and of course winning is a big part of it as well. But here are the goals as far as the competition part goes, especially in HS and above.

    1) Win your league
    3) Win the championship

    I was at the NL/Wyo game last week. All of NL players were pumped, excited and thrilled to be playing in the post season…yes even if they lost 65-3…they made it to the playoffs and others didn’t. Take the positive stuff about this game and stop the da#n negative. These are 16 yo kids who are having fun…unlike you. I’m not a “leather helmeted, gray beard” either….I’m guessing you didn’t play much sports in your youth.

    P.S. Hamburg won their “first” post season football last week,in program history…they probably won’t go much further, but they were jumping for joy for a week and now they can say they were the “first”….It’s an exhilarating experience, believe me!!

  591. mark dodgson says:

    does any one stop and think of the health of the players IN these playoff games these 3-7 teams who were all ready beaten bad by the top seeds it really worth risking the health of a player in a game that going be one sided .plus if you the top seed your Qb sprains an ankle and bam you state run is done, no the season should be shortened these first round games are a joke and a liability

  592. Jc says:

    Thank you and your children for their, there, they’re service. I didn’t realize you were doing a case study on the attitudes of hs football players with losing records playing in district playoffs in pa. Your kids must be very popular and athletic to be able to survey and speak to other student athletes throughout pa. To make yourself so knowledgeable. Take everything back. And you asked about the mercy rule and how I felt. It doesn’t matter how I feel. That’s how the rules go, the coaches and players deal with that, the fans and followers can feel however they want, it doesn’t matter. The rules r set in place and they play by those rules, whether I like it or you like it does not matter. I don’t take anything away from any hs athlete or coach who want to play the game, it’s there, their, they’re game now and I’m only a fan and follower and you and your kids r only sports psychologists and analytics experts and it’s not your game either.

  593. Mike in Tacony says:

    Jeff, for clarity, I have no problem telling New Brighton they don’t belong in the playoffs. You shouldn’t, either. They won 4 regular season games, and one playoff upset doesn’t change that fact.

    To extend your position to its natural conclusion, maybe we should go in the opposite direction: eliminate week 10 of the regular season to add a 7th playoff week so that every team can make the playoffs? I mean, if you think it’s exciting when a 4-6 team upsets a program that actually played well for a full season, imagine how exciting it would be for an 0-9 team to beat a #1 seed!

    Your position makes the regular season less relevant. No thanks. As for the large districts, the field in district 3 used to be 16 teams (4 teams in 4 classes) for many years. These programs would probably survive if the current field of 46 teams in district 3 was trimmed all the way down to *only* 28 teams.

    Finally, I would counter your list of WPIAL upsets with a list of mercy rule games, statewide… unfortunately, the forum character limit precludes me from typing out all 73 mercy rule “playoff” results from last weekend.

  594. Mike in Tacony says:

    As someone with kids in high school who actually talks to kids in high school on a daily basis, yes, I do know what many are thinking, and most are not thinking “hey, it sure would be fun to play one more road game in November where we lose 65-3”.

    Some of you out yourselves as leather helmet era alums with these hilariously anachronistic takes such as “kids just want to play a game!” and “it will be a valuable learning experience”… to get demolished. You’re probably the same grey beards who opposed the institution of the mercy rule because losing by 90 somehow delivered more of a life lesson than losing by 50.

    As for what coaches want, I could honestly care less. If it were up to coaches, kids would be in two-a-days starting in June. I’d rather ask what basketball coaches, teachers, and parents think of the absurd, 19-week high school football season in Pennsylvania (and trust me, I have, and many do think it’s absurd). The biggest proponents of the current, bloated system are the big district, big schools that want the extra ticket revenues and the Al Bundys who take high school football far too seriously.

    P.S. It’s “you’re” not “your”, genius. And the EC was about evenly matched teams getting more work, not playing one more mercy rule game for funsies. Again, every one of your points is inane. Let me know when the varsity gets here. Dunking on the JV bores me.

  595. Jc says:

    Mike in Tuscany you must have played badminton in high school. Many coal region schools use ec playoffs and these district playoffs as a way to get the players ready for next year and to see what playoff football is like. What could be a 50 point loss this year can help there young players next year. The experience northern Lebanon’s underclassmen gained by playing against the best in wyomissing can’t be matched in any other way. No team on there, their, they’re schedule next year will be as tough and as good as this school. Mike in Tucson you clearly know nothing about football and being competitive and learning from taking lumps how to give them. Tamaqua defeated north schuylkill 2 years ago in the district finals 20-0 with this years starting Qb forced into action because of an injury. Less than 2 years later north schuylkill beats tamaqua 55-7 with that same qb. You learn more from losing than winning. Go away and watch synchronized swimming with your uncles husband.

  596. Jeff H. says:

    @ Scott Hagy & Foleman – I agree with both of you CY is on upset alert this week against Wilson, and if the weather forecast is accurate that plays to Wilson’s advantage, I think this will be a 1 score game that could go either way.

    In the larger classifications in the WPIAL the team on upset alert this week is Pine Richland, they play a very dangerous Peters Township squad that was under seeded by the WPIAL and no doubt would love to knock off the defending champs and team that whooped them in the WPIAL title game last year, in 6A I would be shocked if either Mt Lebo or PCC lost.

  597. Jeff H. says:

    @Blakely Bear – I would argue its the districts that want more teams in their playoffs and the PIAA goes along with the will of the bigger districts like 1, 3 and 7. The easiest way to shorten the season would be to eliminate 1 week of district playoffs, which would mean the larger districts could allow a max of 8 teams making their district playoffs in any classification. I know for a fact the WPIAL would protest, and I assume D1 and probably D3 would not be in favor of that either, does anyone think the majority of coaches and AD’s in D1 would be OK with only 8 teams in their 6A and 5A brackets?

    I agree with your point about most coaches being in favor of 1 extra week of practice and the chance to take on a better program in a playoff game to get your kids some more experience. I also share your concern about regular season rematches, especially in the first round, that’s why adding a committee to seed the playoff teams could help alleviate that issue, what’s wrong with moving a team up or down 1 seed in the point standings to avoid first round rematches which is what the WPIAL does. Across all 6 classifications there was only 1 regular season rematch among the 29 first round games last week. The WPIAL doesn’t always get the seeds right and every year there are a couple of coaches who are pissed off (Pat Carey from North Hills in 5A this year is a good example), but I think it’s a better system to add a human element to seed teams for the playoffs than merely relying on points and it certainly helps make for better matchups and games.

  598. David Mika says:

    Thank you!

  599. Kevin X says:

    @ David M.

    2p Saturday

  600. David Mika says:

    Thank you, Kevin!

  601. Kevin X says:

    The Prep v. Hail LaSalle 2.0 at Franklin Field, again, Saturday.

  602. Buddy says:

    The marquis match this weekend is no doubt SJP/LaSalle. Most other match-ups are merely window dressing.

    The flowing week ( round 3 ) is where the rubber meets the road. Having said that, I’m hoping the Perk Valley/C’ville turns

    out to be interesting. It very well could be. D-Town east vs Q-town to a much lesser extent. If NP star RB can’t

    play this weekend, the Ridley/NP tilt could be interesting. But if he does, should be lights out. It gets fun real soon.

  603. Jeff H. says:

    @ CoalRgnFtballFan – I didn’t say Farrell beating Wilmington 54-0 was a signature win, I just said I think this year’s Farrell team is a lot better than last years Wilmington team. Farrell is not going to have a signature win until and if they beat the WPIAL winner in the semi-finals because of who they will play the next 3 weeks.

    Regarding all the discussion on the number of teams that make the playoffs, I would point out there were a number of upsets in the WPIAL by lower seeded teams that would not have made the playoffs if districts were restricted in the number of teams that qualify. In 2A #13 seed New Brighton upset #4 Washington 21-20 in OT, Washington was undefeated this year and had not lost a home game sine 2013 with 42 home wins in a row. In the 2018 playoffs Washington beat New Brighton 54-20, some of this years seniors played as freshman in that game, including 4 yr starter Alex Mittner who made the game saving tackle on the 2 point conversion attempt in OT when Wash High went for the win instead of trying the PAT to force a 2nd OT.

    In 5A the #9 (Woodland Hills), #10 (Fox Chapel), and #11 (Peters Township) all won on the road against higher seeded opponents, it was Fox Chapel’s first playoff win since 1997 and their starting QB was hurt in the regular season final blowout loss to Pine Richland and didn’t play against Upper St Clair, so virtually no one, myself included, gave them much of a chance against USC. Laurel Highlands was a #10 seed in 4A and upset Beaver for their fist playoff win in school history after being 0-10 in the playoffs, the school was formed in 1966.

    There were 29 WPIAL playoff games last weekend and the road teams won 11 games, that is an anomaly compared to prior years. but the point is a number of lower seeded teams won that would not have made the playoffs if only 8 teams made it in each classification. I get it that some think too many teams qualify for the district playoffs and sometimes I feel the same way, but these upsets are part of what make high school football so exciting this time of year, and don’t tell the double digit seeded teams that won they didn’t deserve to make the playoffs.

  604. Blakely Bear says:

    Questions for people on this site who think they know what high school kids are thinking. How do you know what the athletic culture is within a given school? Have you actually talked to coaches or players recently? Do you know the dynamic between coaches and players when they discuss whether they want to play a game or not. You can gripe all you want about the PIAA allowing too many teams in districts, and my concern is regular season rematches in playoffs, but most coaches will tell you there is value in one more week of practice, and also in their kids seeing what better programs do, so they can aspire to be the same.

  605. jc says:

    And tamaqua forfeited because of an investigation regarding numerous members of the football team which is an ongoing investigation. But hey your pretty smart, they forfeited because they were 3-7, lol. It’s the coal region. Tamaqua plays north schuylkill every year. Sometimes twice a year. They surely were going to get beat and beat bad, but they would not be the least bit intimidated.

  606. Foleman says:

    Scott G. Hagy, it looks like it’s going to be raining on Friday night which helps Wilson a lot more than Central York. Exeter didn’t have a problem running the ball against CY and I don’t think Wilson will have a problem either.

  607. EmanD3 says:


    Instead of blaming the kids for “playing” about let’s start blaming the coaches or give the coaches the credit as well….Besides, in D3, playoff seedings are based off of “strength of schedule”. If you’re in, you’re are in! There always will be a #1 seed playing the lowest seed in the first round…it is what it is. Northern Lebanon got in because the “power rating” said they should be in. I’m sure their kids were ecstatic to play. That why they busted their humps all summer and all season, for just that moment…..but here’s part of the problem.

    Wyomissing was down to their JV’s by the 3rd Q, but NL had their starters in till the end just to kick a fg in the 4th, to make 65-3. Your program will never get better, if you don’t let the reserves play. When Wilson WL played MLK this year they were up 50-0, the coach for MLK kept the starters in all the way till the end to try and score against the JV’s. That mindset is a recipe for failure. I see it all of the time in HS football.

    The reason Wyomissing, Wilson, Southern Columbia, North Penn, Parkland, Coatesville, North Allegheny and more are good “every” year…no just once in awhile, is because it’s tradition at these schools for 35-40 years, great coaches who teach the fundamentals from the time the kids are in mites. At Wilson, when the mercy rule is in affect, the starters are pulled “always.” Then the second team and JV’s take over, that’s how you get better, year in and year out. Coaching!!! Plus, you have to schedule tough non league games to get battled tested for playoffs.

    There will always be leagues that are stronger than others, but coaches can schedule tougher non-league opponents, if they want. Wilson’s non league schedule this year included Governor Mifflin, Central Dauphin, Exeter and Manheim Central…plus they scrimmage Coatesville or Parkland every year before the season even starts. This is why WWL has two pretty amazing PIAA records. 45 “winning” seasons in a row, just broke Ridley’s record and 57 non losing seasons in a row(they had a couple of 5-5 records mixed in there).

    Sorry this really wasn’t about Wilson West Lawn..I was just trying to make a point. Spare the “kids suck and are wasting everyone’s time” speech…it’s BS

  608. Kevin X says:

    “This is the problem with social media. It gives everyone a voice, even the stupids”

    No argument from me!!!!

  609. Kevin X says:

    Wow, what an annual Participation Weekend it was!!! Those incredible upsets (at least in the east) will have people talking for a long time to come. Oh, wait, there was only one upset in the east this past weekend, West Catholic beating CEC?? Huh, my bad. In fact, 18 games in District One 4A, 5A and 6A, only one game had a lower seed winning. #9 Kennet over #8 Chester by 3 points. Shocking!!! Guess that doesn’t qualify as an upset for the ages, does it??

    Now that the participation trophies have been presented, we can get serious with some real worthwhile competitive games. At least, let’s hope so.

  610. Mike in Tacony says:

    I mean, it appears that at least one person cares quite a bit about what we think since he gets so laughably triggered by each post.

    Beyond that, imagine conflating 16-year-olds on a team doing something because they were told to do something with kids actually wanting to do it, or maintaining that functional adults shouldn’t contemplate and discuss whether the structures we’ve set up for our children are healthy for their development.

    P.S. your barbs about “idiots” and “stupids” would be slightly less impotent if they didn’t precede repeated misuses of there, their, and they’re, among other embarrassing grammatical errors.

  611. Scott G. Hagy says:

    I think Wilson has a decent chance to “upset” Central York this Friday. CY has been dominant, but their opposition has been less than stellar; they play in a weak League. Early in the season they played Exeter and were fortunate to barely beat them. Wilson did lose to Exeter, but they were an injury riddled team at that point. It’s a different situation with Wilson and they’ll be a tough out for any 6A team. Should be interesting!

  612. Jc says:

    This is the problem with social media. It gives everyone a voice, even the stupids. When teams were cancelling games for covid, you people had a problem, when someone wins big, there running the score up, if you win to many state titles you shouldn’t be playing in that classification, and now when you qualify for district playoffs and show up and play hard and lose big to a better team you shouldn’t be playing against that team. Here is what I know about 99.9% of your gripes on here!!!! It doesn’t matter what you think!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares!!!!!! Let these hs kids play the game, it’s not about you, it’s about them. Northern Lebanon showed up and played the game, who cares what you think. Who cares. Quit following it. It doesn’t matter what you think

  613. jc says:

    Don’t follow hs football then. If they wasted your time stop following it. These r high school kids many playing in there last game. They wanted to play the game. Who cares if you have a problem with it. Your opinion doesn’t matter. The people who wanted to play showed up and played. Go eat a TV dinner in your grams basement and start watching pickle ball

  614. Mike in Tacony says:

    Because a 7-2, #2 seed playing a 6-4, #3 seed is basically the same thing as a 10-0, #1 seed playing a 4-6, #8 seed… I guess that’s why the former ended 26-18 while the latter was 58-0 at halftime.

    How someone can unironically call others idiots while going a full year making one awful point after another is beyond me. Non-winning teams should do what Tamaqua just did and forfeit their “playoff” games instead of wasting everyone’s time.

  615. EmanD3 says:

    To all who are calling Wyomissing, “the big bad bully”….all starters were out by middle of the 2nd Q…sorry, you can’t tell the second string and JV’s to stop playing. It was 38-0 after the 1st Q, what were they supposed to do?

  616. Buddy says:


    You’re wrong. “The more teams in the playoffs the better” is none-sense. There are too many now. Teams with a losing record, I mean well below .500,

    shouldn’t be in playoffs. You are doing them no favors. The very worse teams play the very best teams when playoffs start. Think that

    helps them? They have virtually no chance for an upset. Some day these losing teams, I assume, will have winning records. Then they play..

    I’ll bet half the players on CB South and Haverford didn’t really wanna play last Friday. BTW, all us idiots here think you’re a moron.

  617. jc says:

    jim Thorpe was 6-4 and had already lost by 28 to notre dame of green pond. Nd’s qb threw for over 500 yds in the 1st game. Jim Thorpe won 26-18 last night. If you listen to Kevin L you shouldn’t give anyone a chance at an upset. Only the best of the best make the playoffs. This is high school sports you let kids and teams play and give them the chance to play the best. Somehow people have this view now that wyomissing is this big bad bully. They t a great team. That’s all. They still need to play teams and win. Nothing will be given to them

  618. Jc says:

    just in wyomissing will only play for state titles anymore. One game in December. Congrats for being unbeatable. Shame on northern Lebanon for playing in a game they had every right to play in. Kevin L stop watching high school football and start playing tecmo bowl

  619. jc says:

    So let me get this straight. You people bitch when teams were forfeiting for covid but now your bitching that a team didn’t care and played the best even though they knew they were outmatched. A participation trophy? They showed up and played the best. The more teams in the playoffs the better. The kids r in high school to play sports. There is no participation trophy, they lost, there season is over, they were blown out. Get over it. And don’t start with the inferior team and had no right to be on the field with them. If wyomissing became this super power that I didn’t hear about sorry. Maybe with your request they can just have a bye to the eastern semifinals. God I hate the idiots on here

  620. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    Yes, but at least Northern Lebanon will get their shiny participation trophy with that gaudy 4-7 record forever etched prominently and proudly on said trophy. Any idea when the ceremony will take place?? Are they cancelling classes?? Open to the public?? Will it be live streamed for those who can’t attend or just want to watch it over and over again??

    I’m guessing the PIAA got a killer good deal on participation trophies for this weekend’s games/teams, as I’m sure they purchased in bulk.

    (Sorry, sarcasm is really rearing its ugly head this Sunday morning, must be the time change)

  621. EmanD3 says:

    D3, 6A final four:

    Central York/Wilson West Lawn

    Last three wins for WWL..rushing stats,
    Hempfield 40/275..3 TD’s
    Manheim Township 57/326..2 TD’S
    York 41/332..5 TD’s

    Their OL completely dominated all 3 games..
    I think their only prayer for a win would be to control the clock, with no turnovers.

    Hempfield has a solid D, but don’t think they can hang with HB, offensively…

    We shall see!

  622. Mike in Tacony says:

    Wyomissing dominates Northern Lebanon so completely that the former kicks off to start BOTH halves… Wyomissing wins 65-3 to advance. Northern Lebanon finishes 4-7 and sends its seniors off in style.

    384 “playoff” slots, statewide. Catch the fever.

  623. Kevin X says:

    Anybody care to set the line for the over/under on the number of shutouts and mercy rule games there will be across the state tonight (a shutout mercy rule game only counts once)???

  624. Jay says:

    Well it’s about 4:30 and I’m still awake despite working all night, and I think it’s the excitement of playoffs keeping me up. I can literally hear the Coatesville stadium from my house. I think I’m gonna make it tonight to my first Cville game! I need to keep moving though because if I sit in my recliner I won’t get up for 12 hours.

    Top 5 seeds win tonight, idk enough about the other teams. Will be interesting 4-5 matchup next week if East and Quakertown win. Gotta get there first. Go Raiders.

  625. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy

    If you are purchasing a student ticket on-line to one of tonight’s playoff games in District 2, you are paying a 36% processing charge on said student ticket. Let that sink in.

  626. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ Jeff H – I compared this years Farell team to last years Wilmington team because I don’t think any takeaway can occur from Farrell’s win THIS year vs Wilmington. Wilmington only returned their Center and 1 HB on offense and 2 LB’ers and a Corner on defense. Essentially every play maker and all their linemen graduated. That is a total rebuild, even for a proud program like Wilmington, that type of graduation loss (17 starters) is massive. Wilmington is not considered to be a contender this year for a state crown. They are a good program of well coached kids – but they graduated a ton from last years squad. To me, that win is not a signature win.

  627. Buddy says:

    I was going way back in the old Buxmont before Perk valley even existed ( believe it was Collegville/ Trappe).

    But thanks for the corrections. I was serving from memory, which isn’t what it used to be.

  628. mark dodgson says:

    @ Kevin x why are they doing it we just gone 10 weeks taking money so you cant tell me now it a covid thing it makes no since.guess some one brother in law got the contract when you wondering about something follow the money i can see getting tickets on line as a convenience but not as mandate

  629. MikeS says:


    Well you’re close the CB schools split in 1969, so the older Bux-Mont was CB West, CB East, Souderon, Quakertown, North Penn, Pennridge, Upper Perk, Hatboro Horsham, Wissahickon, Upper Moreland, with Springfield in earlier, as teams moved on Perk Valley was added. In the early years teams on the lower end were very strong. Such as Wissahickon, but as population moved North so did the strength of the teams..
    Need to brush up on a league that was really strong with 10 teams that ended nearly 30 years ago, but whose footprint can still be seen

  630. Irish1 says:

    @Buddy Hensler, Perk Valley wasn’t an original member of the Bux Mont, that’s before my time, but they were a part of that league for many years before leaving with Upper Perk.

  631. Irish1 says:

    @Buddy Hensler, yes Perk Valley was most def a member of the Bux-Mont league along with Upper Perk for several years. They both left at the same time to join the Pac 10. This was one of the things that prompted the remaining members to join an expanded Surburban One league.

  632. phillyboy says:

    That’s right, Kevin X, the city of Philadelphia did implement a law stipulating that vendors and stores must accept cash a couple, few years ago. Will they accept cash at the games in Philly, be interesting to see. But what’s the rationale for paying online with a reservation anyway, is it for health reasons? Goodness, you talk about an overreaction, way too much for too little, unreasonable. And did somebody say there’s a service charge on top of it to add insult to injury? Smh, lol. Anyway, go North Penn. What time is it? ………Knight time!

  633. mark dodgson says:

    article about tickets was in yesterday paper in the middle of an article about the playoff match up >Does any one think that these playoff a girting watered down i will use 4A in D2 four of the
    teams have 3 wins and are in the playoff do we really need 8 teams a 4 team playoff with Berwick Dallas North Pocono and Valley View would be a good start and some interesting games

  634. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark D

    No problem. Don’t know if sad is the right word, but that you found out about this from some anonymous random dude from the Greater Philly area and not locally up there………

    Curious to see how this plays out up there this weekend (and anywhere else it is in effect). Maybe much to do about nothing, or maybe end up with a bunch of pissed off fans. I have no issue of doing on-line ticketing, if an individual wants to: good for if you know you are going to the game, you avoid waiting in line for a ticket, guarantees you admission if a game sells out the day of, maybe you just prefer conducting transactions online and using a CC. But why is it now a big deal after 100 years of paying United States legal currency in a very small amount for a high school football game that is now not acceptable??

    You Philly guys can help me with this, but didn’t Philadelphia pass a law/ordinance 2 or 3 year ago forbidding businesses of not accepting cash, with a few exceptions?? If so, will be interesting how any PIAA playoff games taking place in the City of Philadelphia will deal with this. I doubt PIAA playoff games are one of the exceptions written into the law (if it exists).

  635. Kevin X says:

    Some of you guys seem to be annoyed with all of the re-matches taking place in the D1 6A bracket. Me too, you saved me a lot of typing 🙂

    So I came up with my own D1 6A bracket, using a combination of the ranking system as a guide and then tweaked with a small dose of hopefully non biased open minded common sense human element. No re-matches (it does set up for some second round re-matches, but at some point your really can’t help it) and everyone who got a first round home game in the current bracket also gets one under my bracket (Haverford and DTE may not like it, but too bad, my bracket :))

    #16 CB South @ #1 Garnet Valley
    #9 Conestoga @ #8 CB West

    #13 Downingtown West @ #4 Quakertown
    #12 Spring -Ford @ #5 Downingtown East

    #15 Owen J. Roberts @ #2 North Penn
    #10 Pennridge @ #7 Ridley

    #14 Souderton @ #3 Coatesville
    #11 CB East @ #6 Perk Valley

  636. Jeff H. says:

    @CoalRgnFtballFan – hard to say if Farrell is that much better than last year’s Wilmington team, but they did beat them 54-0 this year in the regular season, so that leads me to believe this year’s Farrell team is significantly better than last year’s Wilmington team, they will likely play them again next week in the D10 playoffs. Both Steel Valley and Sto-Rox have a lot of athletic playmakers for a 2A school, so the WPIAL winner vs Farrell should be a tremendous game. I think the end of the winning streak to Wyomissing is an advantage for SC going into the playoffs, they no longer have the added pressure of trying to keep the streak alive and can now just compete for another state title.

  637. Buddy Hensler says:

    @ Mike S

    Perk valley was never part of the old Buxmont. Upper Perk did enter in much later. And if you go back past ’72,

    there was only one CB school ( CB east didn’t start til ’72). There wasn’t a 10 game schedule then. I believe there

    was only eight teams in the old Buxmont . north penn, Q-town, Pennridge, souderton , CB, wissahickon ( then Ambler),

    I believe Springfield ( montco) also, U perk later. might have forgotten one . No state playoffs then ( that didn’t start till “88)

    Competition is the leaugue was very competative ( except for poor U. Perk). Lotsa school sprit back then.

  638. Helen Ann Long says:

    Will Stone State be live streaming the Southern/Line Mountain game this Saturday?

  639. Tweeter says:

    Did anyone see the coastesville d-town East game? Still surprised by the final after East seemed to be playing well most of the season. Curious to what happened?

    Predictions for round 1:
    GV in a blowout
    Pennridge in a tight game
    D-town East in a close game
    Q-town in a blow out
    Coatesville in a huge blowout
    Ridley again

  640. MikeS says:


    Interesting you brought up the old Bux-Mont league, Perk Valley had a couple of good years, but that old league was a meat grinder, Pennridge, North Penn, CB West, CB West (There were only 2 CB teams back then), Souderton, Quakertown,. So pretty much playing a District qualifier type team. In a time when CB West & North Penn were state challengers. If they beat 3 of those teams a great year was7-3. Note, this year includes, North Penn, Quakertown, CB West, Pennridge, Souderton, CB East & CB South (the newest CB school) pretty much the old Bux-Mont league for District 1 title again this year

  641. irish1 says:

    I think people make the mistake of thinking just because a school has a large enrollment they should compete for titles every year. I think the more important thing is that some areas produce more good players then others do traditionally. Spring-ford has a large enrollment they get good, not great talent most years. When you compare it to Downingtown, Coatesville,North Penn even Garnet Valley, they dont get the talent those schools get. If enrollment meant every thing Upper Darby would be great every year. Alot of things have changed over the last several years. Populations growing or going down play a major role. The Norristown teams under Roger Grove of the late 70s,80’s,early 90s would bury the Pac 10 teams they lose to now. Upper Merion was a powerhouse too during those years. Perk Valley is a prime example of this. They were a Bux-Mont league doormat forever, several years ago. a typical roster back then had 30 players mostly all weighing in around 150lbs. The population blew up in the Collegeville area and now they have been a strong program for the last several years. PJP is a still young school, only eleven years old. They had to build their programs from scratch. Doing that in football, in particular is not easy. The whole athletic department has improved greatly there. They have outstanding coaches in football and basketball now who have done a great job building those programs.

  642. George P says:

    PJP can compete with them schools, all they really need to do is recruit the area. They number of kids are there, however I guess getting them to PJP is difficult not sure?

  643. Footballguy28 says:

    There is posters that reply on here that help coach Owen J Roberts as well as PJP. He can give you more information about SF.

    Owen J Roberts – over achieve for what they are – would compete in 5A
    Spring-Ford should compete for D1 titles in football every year just based on the amount of students they have.
    Perk Valley is having a hell of a year – might be there year but if not when will it be
    Rest is Meh

  644. MikeS says:

    Totally stupid we have 6 rematches out of 8 games, statistically this is almost impossible and no unfortunately happens WAY TOO OFTEN, I think it’s a penalty to the SOL teams, might as well just take the top 6 seeds in the SOL and have a playoff, as essentially that’s what’s happening anyway. You need to give the kids an opportunity to define themselves outside of the SOL. We should be the 7 (out of 16 teams) SOL teams each playing someone out of their own conference, if they meet in the District Semis, or Finals fine, but it just BEYOND STUPID to be playing each other in the 1st round of the Districts, OH well, it’s just about the money anyway, so here we go AGAIN! Or like someone else suggested pick the top 8, which would still include, North Penn, Quakertown and CB West.

  645. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @Jeff H – I do believe the state final will be competitive. I’m not implying that SCA will mercy rule the western rep. Another consideration, SCA beat Wilmington by 28 pts last year. Wilmington beat Farrell 3x last year. Let’s say years version of SCA is similar on Offense and Defense to last years team . Is Farrell 2021 28 points better than Wilmington 2020? Aside from York Catholic and my having seen MCA play, I’m unfamiliar with the rest of AA in the East. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

  646. Touchdown CLub says:

    4th and Forever:

    Thanks! I should have been more specific, but you are right. We are comparing apples and oranges. SF has a 7th, 8th and a 9th grade FB team. 9th graders at SF do not play JV football, they play 9th grade football with their classmates. That team has a game this afternoon at Downingtown East. So we are both right.. There have been maybe 3-4 ninth graders that have moved up to play Varsity football in 11 years. So my numbers are right, and the overall school number, Mr. Foleman was correct on. At other schools, the 9th graders play JV or Varsity football. So apples to oranges.

    I am not responding to anything else.. Good luck everyone!

    It has been nice to see the improvement in a few FB programs in the PAC, particularly at PJP over the last 5-6 years. I wish them continued success!!

  647. Jeff H. says:

    @CoalRgnFtballFan – you make some very good points about SC, and as 4 time defending champs they are the team to beat until proven otherwise. I do think whoever comes out of the west this year will give SC a big time battle in Hershey and that game could go either way, I anticipate a very competitive 2A final and not a mercy rule game like in recent years. It would be a bit ironic if Steel Valley comes through the west and plays SC again since they were the last team to beat them in Hershey in 2016.

    @EmanD3 – York Catholic has a solid team but I can’t see them beating SC in the state playoffs, we’ll see.

  648. Foleman says:

    TD Club, I did do the research, see 4th and forever’s post. I’m sure Coach Brubaker is a great guy, he’s just not that good a coach. I guess PJP should just move over to the Pac Big School division and play the Norristown’s, Methacton’s Boyertown and Owen J Roberts of the world. You are trying to cancel me because I stated something you didn’t agree with. I have been to several Spring Ford games and the stands were never filled with the exception of the PV games. Please name one large school in District one that does less with more than Spring-Ford in football.

  649. mark dodgson says:

    thanks Kevin what do you mean we are the cutting edge of technology here in northeastern pa lol but seriously i read the paper and watch the local news if i don’t come to this site i would have known nothing about it ii sure their a lot of seniors who i know attend game who don’t unless they have a relative in school @Blakely Bear i agree with you on the attendance to many other things to do video games and phones other sports all haver helped taken away form attendance not like when Blakey played the whole town was their go to the Game them Andys for pizza those were the days

  650. irish1 says:

    @ touchdown club, I will agree with you on this past Friday night the weather was horrible and probably cost Spring ford the game.The outcome probably would It hurt PJP alot because they needed to spread Perk V out and the rain and more so 40 mph winds made that impossible. Football is played in the elements but Friday night was off the charts. Not saying the outcome would have been different,Perk V has a good team, but playing a championship game in those conditions was just dumb. Push it back a day and game would have been more entertaining and competitive. Should give fans who paid to sit out in that their money back.

  651. irish1 says:

    @ touchdown club, PJP didnt make the playoffs because its a lousy points system period. Schedules are made years in advance. Arch Caroll is ususally a solid program but was down this year. SCA out of the inter ac league didnt have a great record but played a tough schedule, they would whip several of the weaklings that Spring ford gets to play every year in the Pac Ten Liberty. A playoff system that has Chichester make it with a 5-3 record the same Chichester that just decided they werent going to play a rival school (Academy Park) and got away with it without a forfeit is screwed up. Spring Ford gets in after losing to Pottsgrove same Pottsgrove PJP beat 42-6. Another early exit for the Rams.

  652. 4th&Forever says:

    TD Club, not to jump into the middle of someone else’s fight, but the classification numbers are 9th-11th, so only 3/4 of a school’s enrollment. Add another 300+ boys and Spring-Ford total enrollment of 2500 or so makes sense.

  653. HSFB says:

    Touchdown Club, how long do you see Coach Brubaker staying at SF? I know he mentioned being on the “back 9” in his career. Just curious how much longer you see him staying? Good luck this weekend!

  654. Buddy Hensler says:

    Agree with the comment too many teams make the playoffs. D1 sends 16 teams. Absurd! Used to be 8. That was fine.

    Many times seen teams with losing records, I mean well below .500, make playoffs. Should cut it back and shorten the season.

    I assume a lot of it has to do with $, it always does.

    Talking attendance. I remember going to game back in early sixties ( yes, I was a student), Between Souderton and Pennridge. HUGE rivalry.

    There were 10K fans. Stadium, of course, couldn’t handle that. Outside of stadium was tree lined. There were people sitting in the tress!

    There were pep rallies with bon fires, parades, etc. it was one helluva atmosphere. Lots of fun.

  655. bub says:

    to all who have pointed out that there are many other reasons for the decline in attendance. i agree with you 100%. i also believe that the issue i discussed is one of the reasons. i guess i singled out this particular issue because i have a bad view of this ,some for personal reasons. as i stated a couple of months ago i have a family member ,financially needy, finished 2nd in the scranton prep entrance exam ,received 500.dollars toward a tuition of 10,000. if he were a great athlete ????????? anyway that just makes what i believe even without that example a practice that is great for a few, but unfair to many. thanks to all who addressed this issue. i’m just too old for the new ways i guess.

  656. Touchdown Club says:


    You should really do some basic research before you comment on things you know nothing about. Here are some facts: SFASD has 1757 kids on the 2020-21 classification and 910 boys. I think you said 2500? Off by about 800 kids…

    There are 32 schools in D1 6A football and 16 make the Playoffs. 4A there are 8 schools and 4 make the Playoffs. The reason your Golden Panthers didn’t make the D1 playoffs is that their OOC conference schedule and Bonus points were “god” awful (pun). 10-22 overall and 4-22 not including 6-4 Berks Catholic. And you lost points for playing 3A schools.

    Regarding the football Coach at SF. That man, Chad Brubaker, has done more for the RoFo and surrounding Community than you can imagine. HS Football is not only about “winning games” it is about developing character in young men thru Football. That is what Chad Brubaker has done for 10+ years. He built the HS program and the youth program. He hires excellent assistant Coaches. They teach and mentor. You recently talked about attendance at HS games. Come to a SF game with the lights, a State Caliber Band, concessions and all of the pagentry of HS football. its beautiful and Coach Brubaker is responsible for that. White-outs with 8K fans. You saw the pagentry 3 years ago on a Friday night. Years earlier there were 8-9K for the PV games back to back. We don’t play the ND fight song cause we have our own. The Administration supports the Athletic teams and Band and the facilities are some of the best in the state (you should see the new 2500 sf weight-room). Coach Brubaker helps those young men grow and develop into quality young men. That is why they support him. That is why I support him 100%.. I have been there almost every Friday night for 12 years. Stay in your lane Foleman.. I wont comment on your program, so please don’t comment on mine. You may not like Coach Brubaker, but then again, you don’t know him at all.

    @Tweeter: Coaches lose games. Sometimes its bad matchups. SF has lost some tough ones over the years. They have also won some great games. Losing to Neshaminy at Neshaminy is tough. Losing a one score game to N Penn (who almost beat SJP) was tough. So was losing 43-42 to Wilson West Lawn at WWL. Coach chose to go for 2 instead of another OT. That’s guts. But a loss. Beating and losing to Whitehall with Saquon. Beating and losing to State College. Beating Ridley at Ridley is legit, and Pennridge at Pennridge legit. The PV rivalry is amongst the best in D1 and maybe the State. Some good wins and tough losses. I can go on and on.. OJR and Methacton have gotten better in the PAC. Boyertown is an anomoly.

    Regarding Friday night.. same rain and wind that had PJP held to 69 yards of offense.. Weather can play a factor in games this time of year.

    I can do this all day.. @Tweeter Thank you for allowing me to respond. Appreciate it!

  657. Blakely Bear says:

    Frank G and Mark D
    You can give many reasons for declining attendance, but I believe there are 2 things that account for it the most. The first is the changing culture in most schools, whereas back in the day, the game was the thing to do on a Friday night for almost all students. The second, related to the first, is there are so many other things that kids are interested in today. Our screen and phone culture are part of the problem, lots of kids would rather stay home and play video games on their devices. Plus, in some of the towns in counties like Lackawanna and Luzerne, the population has changed, with more people living there not having been born there. Twenty years ago, the adults had a connection to most of the players, whether as a relative or a neighbor. I’m not saying the current situation is a bad thing, just the reality. As far as some people not attending this week, if you’re a real fan of your team, you wouldn’t mind the extra fee, even though it is not fair. If one doesn’t have the technology, that certainly is an issue. So go and follow your favorite team, with college football becoming more and more professional and mercenary, high school football is the purisy form of the sport.

  658. Paul from Philly says:


    Totally agree. Growing up each parish school had it’s own team. Now it takes three or four parishes combined to field a team. Whether it has something to do with parents avoiding the obvious injuries or an influx of social media eating away at the younger generation’s time and energy, the days of all out support are gone.

  659. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark D

    I copied and pasted that info directly off the District 2 website. I just stumbled on it as I was looking for D2 power ratings and brackets. Here is the direct link:

    Are you saying that the Greater Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area isn’t leading the way in progress in technology and new cutting edge ways of doing things?? (this jab coming from someone who grew up in Lacka County and graduated from a D-2 HS :))

  660. Foleman says:

    @Bub Attendance at HS football games in PA has been declining for years due to a number of factors and it’s sad. Take a look at some of the rosters today Vs 10 years ago, 20 years ago and you will see a huge drop. HS Football popularity is decreasing and it shows at the gate. Private schools have nothing to due with it. I remember back in the Day the Pottsgrove/St Pius X Thanksgiving game was the biggest draw for both teams. N. Catholic/Frankford sold out on Turkey day. Holy Name and Reading Central Catholic drew over 10,000 for the league championship. The BECA/CB West playoff game reported over 20,000 at that game. Those days are gone forever. Even in Texas, thee HS football mecca, HS participation in football is declining.

  661. mark dodgson says:

    ok what is this bull that you have to get D playoff tickets on line ? how do you do that ? their was nothing on the school site that i saw personally i will not be going to a game this week as i think it be a mercy rule game between Crestwood and Valley view but i wish i was their to see how they are going to handle all these people who show up and told they cant buy a ticket i telling you around here it not something that well known!!!

  662. FrankG says:

    @ bub This is just about the number of fans in the stands. It’s a very long time since I was in NE PA, so I won’t pretend to know what affects attendance there, but I haven’t heard or read anyone in the rest of the state say that the fact that private schools (most but not all of which are Catholic ones) don’t have boundaries and can recruit has had any effect on attendance at, say, North Penn, Coatesville, Harrisburg, Easton, or Pine-Richland. Other things may well have, but not player x going to Wood, Shanahan, Bishop McDevitt, Beca, or PCC rather than to the closest public high school.

  663. jc says:

    I guess that’s why your in tycony mike and I’m where I am

  664. bub says:

    so paul you left out the lines that provided the nexus of the discussion. i made it clear where the discussion originated from. i left the possibility that it is all unfounded . but the discussion is relevant if not in this case then in a hundred other situations across pennsylvania. and you can certainly point out that it is not absolute truth. i agree. but the reality is that if you think the people in the stands {the ones that remain} are all just lying or are wrong ,that can be argued. i believe it and i did not just decide to put my ideas out was commented on in the stands and i think that it is a pervasive problem in high school sports. if it was a one time thing then i would be more apt to not comment ,but it is a relevant issue .

  665. EmanD3 says:

    I’m thinking York Catholic in D3 could be a sleeper in 2A. Their D is good, especially their run D…plus they can run the ball themselves. Although, the York league(s) historically don’t compare to the Mid-Penn and the Lancaster-Lebanon leagues in D3, there has been some improvement in recent years….we shall see

  666. Paul from Philly says:


    “I do not have any court of law evidence regarding the waiver program at prep and i have no absolute details of any students financial dealings with prep in regards to tuition. my statements regarding this issue can be totally unfounded.”

    Now there’s a great way to start a conversation!! So you just decided to put your ideas out ther??

    You are so off base with you comments about grants. And one thing about Pubs vs Privates. A lot, and I mean a lot, of public funds go into building and upkeeping the athletics departments in the public schools. Upper Dublin is a prime example. Monies spent way over the top!!

  667. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    I’ve seen multiple mentions of Farrell/Sto-Rox/Steel Valley as potentially being favorites in AA this year. Three points I’d like to make about SCA and why I feel they are still favorites.

    1 – They suffered injuries week 1 against Berwick and it only got worse through about week 7. They have lost their QB for the rest of the season, but now have a healthy backfield for the first time since early in week 1. At one point they had, I believe 5 starters out (2 O linemen, 2 backs, QB, think they are still down a Corner/WR).

    2 – The other contenders that are frequently mentioned all have played comparatively weak schedules. SCA’s total opponent win/loss is 59-40 on the year. Including 2 of the 3 best AAA in the east (Wyoming Area, Wyomissing), MCA is more than likely a top 5 AA – at least in the East, plus AAAA Berwick, AAAA Selinsgrove, AAA Danville, AAA Loyalsock (all of those teams will make district playoffs). I believe Farrell opponent win/loss is 25-26 and it’s worse yet for the WPIAL teams. Sto-Rox is 39-53, Washington 31-43, Serra Catholic is 43-54 and Steel Valley is 41-48. So they may be winning by wide margins, but their overall schedules are not all that formidable.

    3 – Final point is team speed. Historically this was a knock on SCA – but 3/4’s of the AA state winning 4×100 relay starts on the SCA offense – and plays defense when need be. SCA is not big, but they are quite quick across the board. I think the fact they are *almost* healthy AND have easily played the toughest AA schedule in PA will equate to another state title. Time will tell.

  668. bub says:

    @ mark dodgson, i do not disagree with you. i think you can agree that prep probably would not be as competitive , and valley view might not have been in a 1 touchdown game. this 1 player changes how you play the game on offense as well as defense. kudos to this young man. not so much to the prep way of doing things.

  669. Foleman says:

    Tweeter, the Spring Ford Administration actually thinks Brubaker is a great coach. The reason for this is before Brubaker was named Head Coach, Spring Ford was awful in football. Brubaker is a coach that was in the right place at the right time. Spring Ford HS has something like 2600 kids in the school, the rest of the PAC 10 Big schools with Perkiomen Valley being the lone exception are down right awful in football, so every year, those 2 teams win the PAC 10. Spring Ford did play for 1 District 1 Championship during Brubacker’s 11 years there and make the District 1 playoffs every year but constantly underachieve. Spring Ford’s administration is very happy with that. I shudder to think what a top notch Coach could do with Spring Ford, they would be the king of District 1 football. I watched Pottsgrove against PJP a few weeks ago and could not believe how bad they were, they lost 42-6 and the 6 points came against PJP’S Scrubs. Next week I see that Pottsgrove beats Spring Ford 14-13 And these 2 schools are in the District 1 Playoffs and PJP isn’t. Unbelievable!

  670. mark dodgson says:

    @bub officials have a thankless job plays are bang bang that being said wham one official blows the call on back to back plays with something as big as a touchdown you have to start wondering. I agree Scranton Prep played a great game Montgomery was undeliverable he will probably smash every rushing record for a season next year when you have 2 good team going at each other it usually a break or a turnovers that determines the game uufortunaly for Valley View it was in my opinion the officials

  671. Mike in Tacony says:

    I don’t need to see a game to agree with a coach. You know, because he’s an actual football coach; meanwhile, you’re just some angry dude in a free internet chat.

    Had you said you disagreed with his decision, that would have been one thing. But you said it was “the single worst decision you had ever seen”. To wit: your position is absurd.

    Kneeling at your own 27 in a 6-6 tie is a reasonable call with 1 minute to go in those conditions. The end. No need for a hyperbolic strawman about kneeling every play of the game, either.

  672. Jeff H. says:

    @Kmac – I find it interesting the way D1 and other districts do their playoff seedings and strictly use a point system with no human element. The WPIAL does the exact opposite, they have a steering committee that meets and seeds all the teams in each class, 1-16 or however many teams in each classification make the district playoffs. And, an unwritten rule is they always try and avoid first round and whenever possible 2nd round matchups with teams from the same conference, so you almost never have a rematch in the first round of the playoffs, the committee will move a team up or down 1 position in the seedings to avoid a conference rematch. Teams with weaker schedules are seeded lower than teams with more losses that played a tougher schedule. A good example is in 4A, where 8-2 McKeesport who finished 2nd in their conference is seeded third ahead of 10-0 conference champion Hampton who is seeded fourth, because everyone around here knows if those 2 played McKeesport would definitely be the favorite, and because TJ is seeded 5th the steering committee wanted to avoid a TJ-McKeesport rematch in the quarterfinals since McKeesport beat TJ by 2 TD’s 2 weeks ago.

    I disagree with the WPIAL on some issues but IMO the way they do their playoff seeding is superior to any other district in the state and if other districts would use a committee to determine the playoff seedings it would probably eliminate some of the shenanigan’s that go on when schools try and manipulate the point system to gain an advantage for the playoffs.

  673. Jeff H. says:

    @NWPA – agree with just about everything you said, Farrell is definitely on a roll and probably the favorite in 2A, but I expect the WPIAL final will be Steel Valley vs. Sto-Rox and the winner will give Farrell all they can handle in the semi-finals and that game could go either way. No disrespect at all to 4 time defending champion SC, but the western final might be the defacto state championship game, we’ll see how it plays out, but I really like whoever comes out of the west to win 2A. Yeah, I know it’s kinda crazy to pick against SC, but that’s how I see it.

    I agree Belle Vernon vs. ECP would be a very good game, Belle Vernon would be the favorite in 5A in the WPIAL, they beat the number 2 seed Penn Trafford 27-7 during the regular season. I do think ECP and Imhotep will be a very competitive game, really strange they are seeded to play in the quarterfinals, something’s wrong with the brackets when arguably 2 of the 3 best teams play in the quarterfinals.

    I’ve told my Mt Lebo friends I like their chances to get to Hershey, of course they will probably have to beat PCC for the 2nd time this year and it’s never easy beating a team like PCC twice in the same season, but I’m still picking them to win the WPIAL and then beat McDowell in the quarterfinals and whoever wins D3 in the semi’s. but I like the East to win 6a and right now I’m picking LaSalle to take home the gold.

  674. Ryan says:

    If anyone is interested in going to games after week one please let me know, will be going every week until the championship.. where I will be attending.

  675. Kevin X says:

    I saw District 10 is also doing this for all of their championship games in all sports. Any other districts going this on-line only ticketing route?? I know the PIAA appears to be doing it for their championship games in all sports this year after rolling it out last year due to Covid. Sort of, kind of, got it then, but I really don’t get it now. Why??

  676. Kevin X says:

    Seriously District 2??

    “ALL tickets to 2021-2022 District II Championship Playoff events will be sold online through Hometown Ticketing. THERE WILL BE NO GATE SALES AT ANY DISTRICT II CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT. The cost, regardless of sport and level of event for the Fall Championships, will be $7 for adults and $4 for students. You must present a ticket (either electronically or paper) at the gate in order to gain entry to the event.”

    Oh yeah, and you have to pay a service charge on top of that for each ticket purchased as well. This whole system will guarantee put more fans in the stands…….BRILLIANT!!!!

  677. FrankG says:

    @ Blakely Bear and Bub, I think the advantages and disadvantages of non-boundary schools look a little different, depending on perspective. It’s also the case that in the Philly area it is far from the case that one school only can “cherry pick” kids from a wide geographic area. In the case of kids in western suburbs, for instance, there are several Interac schools that are recruiting as well as several PCL schools (Bonner, O’Hara, Carroll, Shanahan, as well as SJP). In the city there is Tep as well as Roman, Neumann Goretti, Judge, etc–and LaSalle and several Interac schools. In Bucks and Montgomery counties there is Wood, LaSalle, etc. And in Jersey there are at least a few Catholic schools that of course recruit: Eustace, Camden Catholic, Holy Cross and further away there is St. Joe’s (Hammonton), St. Augustine, etc. To what extent public schools recruit, I will leave to others.

    Bub, the vast majority of the money donated by alumni at SJP goes to the general pool out of which financial support for all students who need it is drawn. When Nick Howley donated $5 million to SJP, it wasn’t directed particularly to student-athletes–even though Nick played football at the Prep in the late ’60s.

  678. Jc says:

    Mike in Tacony. It’s good you can make judgements on a game you didnt see a single play. Leading up to the last drive north schuylkill didn’t fumble the ball one time. Even if they do fumble Pottsville still needed to score to win. With 1:20 left on the clock you try and win the game by running a play. Why not just take a knee all night and punt on 4th down and hope the other team turns it over for a touchdown. They lost the game because the coach did not believe in his team to be able to try and let them win the game. Never do you play for overtime. Hand the ball off and hope for the best. Don’t take plays away from your offense.

  679. Blakely Bear says:

    @Frank G
    Whatever disadvantages non-boundary schools may have, be they Catholic or otherwise, they are far outweighed by the advantage of drawing kids from a 2-3 or more county area. Coaches can cherry-pick the best players from whatever school they want. Any argument to the contrary is just rationalization.

  680. bub says:

    @frankg #1 do not have any court of law evidence regarding the waiver program at prep and i have no absolute details of any students financial dealings with prep in regards to tuition. my statements regarding this issue can be totally unfounded. that being said, i have been attending high school football since the early 60s and in my experience when there is an issue the fans in the stands know .these are small towns, we all know the school directors, coaches ,students, staff, etc. while there is the possibility that this is false i apologize. the reason i single this particular situation out is because this 1 player is that much of a difference maker, as evidenced in the valley view game. let me say that i am not a valley view fan, and i attended catholic school and am grateful and supporter of the catholic schools. #2 the catholic schools have certainly declined in attendance. that does not give them carte blanche to discriminate against hard working people who either struggle to send their children to that school or cannot afford to send them at all because they can’t afford the high tuition. yet they watch another student who has athletic skills, not book smarts which is what school is predominantly about walk in for free and take a desk that maybe another student can’t afford. maybe if the school used the grant money from alumni and spread it evenly amongst lower income applicants instead of bestowing it upon the athletes who you seem to imply are used as advertising agents to lure people to attend catholic schools, then maybe more kids could attend. it is the astronomical tuition that is a big reason for the decline in catholic school pupils. #3 if kids attending catholic schools are not catholic, that is fine as long as they are paying the tuition, and not getting priority over anyone else. #4 if the student does not qualify because of academic standards then what is the problem. hit the books. maybe the smart kid should get special treatment on the athletic field as a reward for his academic skill..this would be absurd , like the academic kid gets a 20 yard head start in the 100 meter race. it’s absurd but this is just in reverse of rewarding the athletic kid with financial advantage. #5 the reasons for low attendance and competitiveness are many. one of the reasons for certain is that the deck is stacked . when a team say carbondale ,cannot even begin to compete with a scranton prep and it is 48-0 at halftime, most fans have checked out and what i said before i repeat when you can stockpile talent via passing out free rides and allowing private and /or catholic school to create an unfair recruiting situation you destroy what was great about high school football.the pride of your local kids,neighbors, friends, family, bonding together as a team and going out on friday night to play young men of similar situations from the nearby towns ,that is the essence of what this was but for the most part is no more. thus empty bleachers, and the death of a great tradition.instead you now have mercenaries if you will taking the uniform,and the experience away from the kid who is not great perhaps but really more important to the survival of high school football.

  681. Tweeter says:

    Any PAC or spring-Ford people here? Just wondering how SF coach Brubaker keeps his job year to year? He doesn’t do anything special and loses games he shouldn’t. Any thoughts?

  682. Mike in Tacony says:

    @JC frankly, if you describe that scenario as “the single worst decision I’ve ever seen in my life” it’s probably better if your posts are moderated :/

    North Schuylkill couldn’t move the ball all night and there were games across the area on Friday with 6-10 turnovers. With a minute left at your own 27 yard line, the odds of fumbling the ball are higher than the odds of scoring in that slop.

    Agree or disagree, the coach made a reasonable decision.

    Also, there are too many classes and too many rounds of playoffs… so you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t care that a 5A Fleetwood program that scheduled FIVE 2A and 3A teams (including a decisive loss to 2A Upper Dauphin) misses out on the opportunity to get mercy ruled in the first round of the district playoffs because Daniel Boone had covid issues.

    Not that long ago, District 3 sent 16 teams to the playoffs. Now there are 46 teams. Next Saturday’s tilt between 10-0 Wyomissing and 4-6 Northern Lebanon should be a real barn burner.

    Programs such as Fleetwood and Daniel Boone should be preparing for Thanksgiving Day games; neither should be preparing to have their seniors get eviscerated in the “playoffs” for their final football game.

  683. NW PA says:

    Been awhile since I posted gonna throw my 2 cents in. In 2A Farrell keeps impressing me more and more, they crushed a decent 3A Ft Lebouf Friday. Lebouf was in in it until the 2nd half but couldn’t stop the big play. I’ve heard Sto Rox, Wasington, Serra Catholic and Steel are all good as well but I’m liking Farrell. In 3A it looks like Central Valley and Wyomissing are the top of the class, no one from up here (Sharon, Hickory, Slippery Rock, Grove City) will be able to touch any of them. I’m gonna fully agree with @JeffH in 4A that Mcdevitt and Bell Vernon are on a collision course, although let’s not count out TJ just yet. And how about Erie Cathedral scoring with 19 seconds left to beat a very good Canisius 44-38 yesterday. Too bad Cathedral isn’t in 4A I’d love to see them against the WPIAL champ. Erie Cathedral beat St Francis 28-20, Cathedral looses to Mcdowell 32-12, St Francis beats Mcdowell 21-3, crazy. Cathedral looks like they will make it to the quarter finals and loose to Imhotep. In 6A Mcdowell will make it to the quarters and loose to whoever comes out of the WPIAL, probably Mount Lebo.

  684. Kmac says:

    As i see no ties in points in the District One Class 6A Playoff scenario on the PIAA D1 Site, there appears to be a bit of irony in the seedings.

    Haverford scheduled an extra game, won, made 16th and is rewarded with a rematch with Garnet Valley who beat them 55-14 on Oct 15.

    Rematches galore –

    North Penn – CB South, just played 10/29
    Quakertown-Souderton played 10/1
    Ridley-Conestoga played 10/30
    CB West-Pennridge played 10/1

    The only “new ” matchups seem to be Coatesville-O J Roberts; D’Town East-Spring Ford; and Perk Valley-C B East.

    Perhaps this happens more than I remember, however five of eight rematches seem to be a lot.

  685. FrankG says:

    @ bub A few points:

    1. Do you know the details of the arrangement the family of the player you identify has with Scranton Prep? Or is this just speculation?

    2. I’m sure you’ve noticed that for many years now, a hugely disproportionate number of the top high school football teams all over the country are from Catholic schools. Why is that? One reason is that Catholic schools have to market themselves as they never had to do a generation or two ago to stay in business. A great many have closed or merged–goodbye Hannon, Cardinal Dougherty, North Catholic, etc. Tuitions have had to increase substantially because there are almost no nuns, priests, or brothers left. (They were never paid what people with families are paid.) And families like mine–where all three boys went to SJP–that were once common are now rare. Now they do a little dance in the admissions office if such a family shows an interest in the school. Excellent football and–to a lesser extent–basketball teams raise the profile of a school, suggest a culture of achievement / excellence, and often increase alumni donations. (Schools don’t always rely just on high profile sports to achieve these goals. SJP also has a hugely successful rowing program-best in the country last year–and a great theatre program.)

    3. It used to be that Catholic schools had only Catholic students, but the world has changed. Have you been to mass lately? How long do you think schools with substantial tuition could stay in business if they could draw from only the Catholic population? At SJP some students are Mormons, some are Jewish, some are Protestants, and some come from families with no religious affiliation. I’m sure that’s true of most if not all other Catholic schools–Catholic colleges, too. Does that make the schools less Catholic? Short answer: not necessarily. One result is that all kinds of student-athletes, including many African-Americans (among whom Catholics are not so numerous), who may never in previous eras thought about attending a Catholic schools are now thinking about it. So at SJP, for example, in my graduating class of 200 in the early 70’s there were two African-Americans. Now there are about 40 in each graduating class–most of whom are NOT on either the football or basketball team.

    4. While there are obvious advantages to not having boundaries, there are also disadvantages to having academic standards that result in some very good athletes either not qualifying for admission or for not being able to handle the academic load. SJP loses players every year for academic reasons. There are also advantages to having a stadium or at least a practice field on campus–something many Catholic schools don’t have–and to having all the players live within at least a short car/bus ride from the school–as opposed to living up to an hour away.

    5. As for reduced attendance at HS football games, are you really saying that there’d be a lot more people in the stands to see Scranton vs Abington Heights if player X hadn’t chosen, as is his right, to go to Scranton Prep? This isn’t 1964 and the Blakely Bears. Work has changed, families have changed, technology has changed, etc. I remember when even smaller schools had large marching bands. I can get nostalgic about those times, but they’re gone.

    I could add some thoughts about how college football recruiting has affected the high school game–today many HS freshman and even some 8th graders are getting “offers” from big time college programs. There’s a lot I don’t like about it, but it too is changing the views of kids (and–even more–parents) about which high school to attend.

  686. Kyle Berger says:

    I typically post these on Twitter, but my account was compromised tonight of all nights….Oh well. Here are the 6A, 5A and 4A D-1 Playoff standings:

    2021 PIAA District One Football Playoff Standings – 6A

    Rank Team Record Total Points Average Points
    1 Garnet Valley 10-0 1880 188.0
    2 North Penn 10-0 1860 186.0
    3 Coatesville 9-1 1780 178.0
    4 Downingtown E 8-2 1710 171.0
    5 Quakertown 10-0 1690 169.0
    6 Perk Valley 8-2 1630 163.0
    7 Ridley 9-1 1610 161.0
    8 CB West 8-2 1540 154.0
    9 Pennridge 7-3 1480 148.0
    10 Conestoga 7-3 1470 147.0
    11 CB East 6-4 1350 135.0
    12 Souderton 6-4 1320 132.0
    13 Spring-Ford 6-4 1290 129.0
    14 Owen J Roberts 6-4 1270 127.0
    15 CB South 6-4 1250 125.0
    16 Haverford 5-5 1235 123.5
    — —- — — —
    17 Downingtown W 5-5 1180 118.0

    2021 PIAA District One Football Playoff Standings – 5A

    Rank Team Record Total Points Average Points
    1 Bayard Rustin 8-1 1570 174.4
    2 Strath Haven 9-1 1740 174.0
    3 Unionville 9-1 1730 173.0
    4 Upper Dublin 8-2 1660 166.0
    5 Plymouth Whitemarsh 8-2 1690 169.0
    6 Academy Park 7-2 1310 145.6
    7 Marple Newtown 7-3 1420 142.0
    8 Chester 7-3 1385 138.5
    9 Kennett 7-3 1370 137.0
    10 Phoenixville 5-4 1160 128.9
    11 Oxford 5-5 1230 123.0
    12 Cheltenham* 5-5 1140 114.0
    13 Henderson ** 4-6 1140 114.0
    14 Springfield 4-6 1140 114.0
    15 Upper Merion 4-5 970 107.8
    16 Interboro 3-7 1010 101.0
    — —- — — —
    17 Wissahickon 3-7 890 89.0

    *Cheltenham wins three-way tiebreaker on criteria #3 (Regular Season Record)
    ** Henderson wins two-way tiebreaker on criteria #5 (Strength of Schedule):
    Henderson Opponents’ Combined Record = 58-41 (.585)
    Springfield Opponents’ Combined Record = 56-44 (.560)

    2021 PIAA District One Football Playoff Standings – 4A

    Rank Team Record Total Points Average Points
    1 Bishop Shanahan 7-3 1585 158.5
    2 Pottsgrove 7-2 1350 150.0
    3 Upper Moreland 7-3 1490 149.0
    4 Chichester 5-3 1190 148.8
    — — — — —
    5 Pope John Paul II 7-3 1360 136.0

  687. David Mika says:

    What are you talking about? I just posted your other post…..

  688. jc says:

    It’s embarrassing how you decide what you post and what you dont

  689. Ryan says:

    I will say this for the Chichester/AP because I’ve asked, Chichester was/is scared to play Academy Park. Academy Park asked to play Friday, Saturday and Monday they couldn’t. Academy Park asked to play this game many times, I asked many people at the AP/Chichester what happened that is what I was told.

    Academy Park should play them Monday, if they refuse, it’s a forfeit, the other reason why Chichester is in the playoffs is because they refused to play Academy Park.

  690. Helen Ann Long says:

    SCA finishes strong with a 55-3 thrashing of Danville.

  691. Jc says:

    With 1:20 to go in the 4th quarter and the ball at there own 27 yd line, Wally hall head coach of north schuylkill decides to take two knees and go to overtime tied at 6-6. Maybe north schuylkill doesn’t score, but you at least try and score. The single worst decision I’ve ever seen in my life.

  692. bub says:

    regarding prep@valley view last night. prep got the best of the line of scrimmage play,and their running back was outstanding. that said though,valley view got screwed 3 times : at the end of the first half they had 2 touchdowns that were declared short of the goal line which looked to me like touchdowns with no doubt. they also had a fumble by prep that was ruled down before the fumble, even though the ball was coming free on the way down. that drive resulted in the go ahead touchdown with less than 4 minutes left. it should have been valley view ball but instead prep continued the drive from around the 15 yard line and scored 2 plays later. scranton preps running back ran 42 times for over 200 yds. and was the reason that prep won along with the missed call. in my opinion i think it is totally unfair that this young man is attending prep basically at no cost on something called a waiver. i have had this discussion before and i repeat this young man would not be attending prep if he did not possess the athletic skills that he does. i believe that this is 1 reason for the sparse crowds ,and lack of competitiveness in the leagues. when you can stockpile talent via passing out free rides and allowing private and /or catholic school to create an unfair recruiting situation you destroy what was great about high school football.the pride of your local kids,neighbors, friends, family, bonding together as a team and going out on friday night to play young men of similar situations from the nearby towns ,that is the essence of what this was but for the most part is no more. thus empty bleachers, and the death of a great tradition.instead you now have mercenaries if you will taking the uniform,and the experience away from the kid who is not great perhaps but really more important to the survival of high school football.

  693. Jay says:

    Like I said in a previous post, I haven’t made it to Friday night games because of my schedule, but if Coatesville keeps playing the way it has been (42-7 over DTE?!) then I’m going to force myself. I guess it would be three weeks from now that they’ll play at North Penn (if they both make it that far of course), and that’s a game I really don’t want to miss. Especially if Coatesville wins and then goes to Garnet Valley for the D1 chip. They’ve been GV’s thorn in the side for years!

    Okay, I’m done jumping the gun here, I just get very excited this time of year. And you ALL understand 🙂

  694. mcd 65 says:

    la salle beat Wood 20-0 . Woods offense is just so mundane . tailback up the middle ,tailback off tackle. It worked great in 5A winning many championships for sure , but just didnt work against LaSalle and the Prep as well as malvern Prep and St Johns.

  695. BJ says:

    Coleman, you really can’t get upset with a coach going for a two-point conversion in last night’s conditions as it was difficult making extra points or doing anything with the kicking game. The Garnet Valley/ Lower Merion game had a combined 9 fumbles. Most of those were while punting or snapping for an extra point. I don’t think going for a 2point conversion, to go from 28 to 30 points in those conditions is Bush league. I’d be way more upset that PJP is out of the playoffs when they are clearly the second best team.

  696. David Mika says:

    Yes…As long as the information is out.

  697. Buddy says:

    Brackets will come out I assume Monday?

  698. Irish1 says:

    @foleman,. All they had to do is push game back to Saturday
    conditions would have made for much
    more entertaining competive game. Once they decided to play it ,. it became a 3 yards and a puddle of water game which favored PV with their line and a QB who is tough to.bring down. PV is NOT 30 points.
    better then PJP. If someone was watching on a steam you could not appreciate how bad the conditions were. As far as the playoff in 4a that is a complete joke. The 4 best are not in the field .

  699. Foleman says:

    My God, Pottsgrove-Just got mercy ruled last week by PJP and Chichester-Probably the 6th best team in D1 4A get in the 4A playoffs, Daniel Boone gets in 5A football District 3 playoffs by getting destroyed by the 2 best teams-(3a Wyomissing and 4A berks Catholic) they played in the regular season and would have gotten mercy ruled by Governor Mifflin and Exeter in their final 2 games if they did not have “Covid Problems” Maybe the districts could go to a Play in game after the regular season to determine fairness in the system. And these are just a few examples around the State that I know of. I’m sure there are many more. Irish 1, you are correct, I don’t know why a game with League Championship and PIAA playoff implications was allowed to play in those conditions. Yes, PV was a better team that PJP, but the kids and fans deserved better. And BTW, the 2 point conversation by PV’S coach when he was up by 28 at the end of game was pure bush league.

  700. Irish1 says:

    @Kevin X, yeah don’t mean it to sound like sour grapes, but the two best 4a teams in the district are Shanahan and PJP it’s a shame they won’t get to play. U Moreland also gets in after getting routed by a poor U Darby team last night. I guess I’m not smart enough to figure out a system where teams with more points have a lower ranking. You make good points about the Chichester Academy Park game. Maybe they will make changes but I doubt it.

  701. Kevin X says:

    @ BJ

    Yeah, think District One officials are going to be on the hot seat this weekend, especially if Chester wins today. Think they will do nothing and just say hey, the rules are the rule and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe they’ll make some changes and tweaks with the playoff rankings/ratings system going forward, which does nothing for any team that is affected wrongly right now.

  702. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Here’s another thing to get your, um, Irish up, what is the deal with the cancelled Chichester/Academy Park game early in the season?? I know Chichester was the one that cancelled, refused to play at AP after that shooting that happened a few weeks prior, but they never made the game up. Shouldn’t AP get a FFW and Chichester a FFL, which would give them 9 games to figure into their playoff rankings average (and lower it) and probably a good chance of moving below PJPII into the # 5 spot. I don’t get it. That to me is an obvious forfeit situation, if the game isn’t made up prior to the end of the regular season. This may affect AP in the seedings as well.

  703. Irish1 says:

    It would not have changed the outcome PV has good team but what sense does it make to play the pac championship game in horrible conditions. Football is a game played in the elements yes but last night’s weather was terrible and forced two high scoring talented offenses to run dives and qb keepers all night. It’s a shame to work all season to get to this point and be reduced to that. You need a master’s degree to figure out the playoff point system out but seems like it could use an overhaul Pottsgrove loses to Pjp 42-6 last week but gets in by upsetting the 3rd best team in the league Pjp is out because of a loss in the championship game. Chichester somehow gets in with a 5-3 record instead of pjp at 7-3. The 4 best teams aren’t there. Maybe PJP should schedule some of the many lousy 6a. teams in district one instead of going out of the district or playing inter ac teams. It doesn’t pay to play quality teams with the point system. Just schedule one those 6 a bottom feeders from the Suburban one and get the points

  704. BJ says:

    Kevin, yeah, I have no idea why they won’t let the points for Monday’s game count. It’s just makes no sense. If they’re going to allow them to move the game to Monday, they have to allow the 10 points for the neshaminy win to count for Quakertown. I have a feeling there’s going to be a lot of arguing going on over the next 48 hours to change that decision. But like you said, It will be a mute point if Academy Park beats Chester, as then East would be the #4 seed.

  705. Kevin X says:

    @ BJ, et al

    If AP beats Chester tomorrow, DTE jumps over Q-Town for the #4 seed. Q-Town drops to the #5 seed. That’s big as the #4 seed would potentially get 2 home games. Big controversy is the Pennsbury/Nesh game being moved to Monday, as that game won’t count in the ratings. Basically screws Q-Town. So wrong that whole situation.

  706. Jeff H. says:

    Went to the Belle Vernon vs. McKeesport game tonight and expected a pretty tight contest after McKeesport beat TJ by 2 TD’s last week and was treated to the Devin Whitlock and Quinton Martin show right from the start. First Whitlock returned a punt 70 yards for a TD after McKeesport went 3 and out, then after another McKeesport 3 and out on the 2nd play from scrimmage Martin went 59 yards for a TD and the rout was on. Belle Vernon made a statement and totally dominated a very solid McKeesport team winning 46-14 after racing to a 32-7 lead at the half. I doubt there are very many teams in the state in any classification that have a 1-2 punch on offense like Whitlock and Martin, there is no other duo in the WPIAL like those 2 and to say they are dynamic would be an understatement. I don’t see any team on this side of the state beating Belle Vernon and I anticipate they are headed for a showdown with Bishop McDevitt in Hershey in what I think will be a very competitive and compelling matchup for the 4a championship if it happens. I have seen all the top 4a, 5a and 6a teams in the WPIAL this year in person with the exception of Aliquippa and Belle Vernon and Mt. Lebanon are the 2 best teams I’ve seen and IMO the 2 best teams in the WPIAL.

  707. BJ says:

    Everything went Garnet Valley’s way and they win the #1 seed by 10 points. North Penn # 2 Coatesville # 3 Quakertown # 4 Downingtown East #5 Perkiomen Valley #6. Nobody’s playing better football than Coatesville, Perkiomen Valley and Quakertown. Playoffs are going to be awesome, going to answer a lot of questions.

  708. Kevin X says:

    Buddy, try:

    Thnx Scotty!!!

  709. ScottyB says:


    PVSD Athletics

  710. David Mika says:

    Buddy. I have a list on the main page….

  711. Buddy says:

    Anybody hear of games being postponed to maybe tomorrow ?


    What’s the name of that youtube channel?

  712. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    The Perk Valley vs PJPII PAC championship game will be live streamed on PV’s YouTube page.

  713. Kevin X says:

    Somewhat surprised as of this Friday morning, other than two games that I have seen, there are no other cancellations/date changes for any D1/D12/Inter-Ac games for this evening. Looks like a dry night of streaming (if any decent games found) and baseball for me.

    @ Mark D

    Speaking of streaming, any idea if that Scranton Prep/Valley View game is available for video streaming anywhere?? Really curious about that one. I did enjoy the video stream of the second half of an entertaining game between Dunmore and Lakeland last night. I also was briefly checking out the OF/LT game as well, but that game was not all that competitive.

  714. Route 54 says:

    Hard to believe we are ending regular season. I’m following 2 teams this year. North Schuylkill and SCA. There will be some great clashes in both of these classes. I saw Wyomissing play SCA. Wyomissing had full control after 1st quarter. Their line of scrimmage is brutal. North Schuylkill will have their hands full if they see Wyomissing in the playoffs. Same goes for SCA. They will most likely face York catholic. Another team similar to Wyomissing.

  715. David Mika says:

    Thank you,Ryan. I updated the game.

  716. Ryan says:

    @ Dave Mika Phoenixville/ Owen J Roberts has been moved to tomorrow due to rain

  717. David Mika says:

    Hi Ryan. They updated the time. It is Saturday 11am.

  718. Ryan says:

    Where is the Chester/Academy Park game? Heard it was at Academy Park @ 11 on Saturday?

  719. Buddy says:

    Let’s hope BJ is wrong

  720. Bj says:

    Kevin, if Haverford wins their new game added to the schedule and North Penn and Garnet valley both win their last games and there are no major upsets in their previous opponents, they will end up tied and Garnet valley would win the tiebreaker by stronger strength of opponents winning percentage. Going to be interesting.

  721. FrankG says:

    @BJ Obviously I don’t administer let alone own this site, but I appreciate that comments are moderated, even if sometimes it takes many hours to to have something submitted show up on the site. The administrator has to sleep! Of course that makes quick back-and-forth conversations difficult or even impossible at times, but that’s a price I think is worth paying. Look what’s happened n he Rivals site. It seems unmoderated and as a result all kinds of posts that are really just ads show up and at times the comments can get really nasty and personal. But it does offer immediacy, so if you want or need to see your post shared immediately with the wider world, that’s a site to use.

  722. Kevin X says:

    Going to pull my chips off the table from my prior post about NP getting the #1 seed in the D1 6A playoffs. Saw that Haverford picked up a walk over opponent in the Academy at Palumbo out of the PPL, so that pretty much secures Haverford a spot in the playoffs (and probably a re-match with GV), eliminates a very dangerous (and probably a more deserving) Downingtown West team, and turns the Souderton/Bensalem game into an elimination game. Also helps GV in the rankings. If chalk holds, the GV/NP battle for the #1 seed may come down to the D1 tiebreaker rules, which I am not going to touch.

    @ Ryan

    Way too may moving parts and variables to exert any time and effort in trying to figure out any type of educated guess in seedings and first round playoff match-ups. Will know soon enough.

  723. mark dodgson says:

    Well the game of the year up here in D2 Valley View and Scranton Prep should be interesting both undefeated both have crushed every team they played one local coach told me if Valley Viiew can keep it close til the 4th quarter they will ware out Prep as only one valley view line man plays both ways and all of prep do should d be a fun game

  724. Irish1 says:

    @ foleman,. Your right about Berks Catholic also it’s not easy getting ready for a wing t team when pjp rarely sees that offense. I disagree with you on a few things. I don’t thing SCH would win the pac small school division. I was at that game PJP lost in the last few seconds but I thought they were probably the better team in the long run. Credit to SCH for making some nice deep throws and catches late in that game . The players that are out are tightend/ def end, another two way lineman and speedy wr/db, but I still think they can win the game. Perk Valley is a solid favorite but if PJP comes in to that game as focused and prepared as last week they can get that game to the 4th qtr. If they do they have a chance

  725. BJ says:

    I already asked this question over 20 hours ago and have not seen my post or a response. Is everybody’s comments moderated before posted? If so, why? It’s hard to have a conversation with people when you’re comment doesn’t show up until 10 hours after you posted it.

  726. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, Berks Catholic was ranked in the top 10 in AAAA when PJP played them and lost the game in the last few minutes. Even though BC is not at the level they once were, they still are a formidable opponent. While Springside Chestnut Hill has won only 3 games, they are an Inter-AC school, and Inter-Ac schools are tough, SCH would probably win the PAC 10 small school division. The Grove played a 2A Doormat Schuykill Valley, a 3A winless team in Lansdale Catholic and 6A always underperforming Boyertown which just lost to previously winless Norristown. When you look at the schedules of some teams, its easy to point out the paper tigers, I thought Owen J Roberts was also a Paper Tiger and it showed against the top 2 teams in the PAC.

    Irish 1, Your right, too many key players are out for PJP to beat PV who will be gunning for PJP after last years loss to them. It looks like PJP’S Starting Offensive tackle, Defensive Tackle and lightning quick wingback Williams will be out for the game. Too many Freshman and Sophs taking their place to win that game.

  727. Ryan says:

    If someone would like to like to figure 6A rankings, if teams were to win the final games or lose etc. Please help. Teams looking for predictions on who they would face if they were to play in playoffs are Owen J Roberts and Pennridge.

    Believe if Owen J Roberts wins Friday against Phoenixville (5A) they would stay around 10-13.

    Downingtown East plays Coatesville
    CB South plays North Penn
    Perk Valley plays PJP
    Ridley plays Conestoga
    OJR plays Phoenixville
    Springford plays Pottsgrove
    Souderton plays Bensalem
    Chester plays Academy Park

  728. Ryan says:

    @ Buddy – Perk Valley plays PJP, Springford plays Pottsgrove, Owen J Roberts plays the third place team.. not sure who that is .

    Went to the North Penn/ CBE, either North Penn took them
    Very lightly or they just aren’t as good as I thought. Would say the teams were about even but North Penn didn’t blow me away as an 8-0 team. CBE had the best player on the field, #8. CBE ran a few plays that I was confused about, like they ran pass plays and had 1 running a route. North Penn passing game was working, running back had one long run.
    I think I said this earlier if a team has speed I believe they put a good fight against North Penn.

    @ Jack.. I went to the Academy Park/Downingtown East, found out the Head Coach was not coaching the game and many players of Academy Park had just been coming back from a sickness, which means they were not at the Avon Grove game & a difference maker played a quarter an half against East.

    Was not very surprised at the Owen J Roberts result, as a I’m not a big believer in the offensive coordinator of OJR.. whom I believe is the head coach. Not creative at all. Game changed when it was 7-7.. OJR was driving an threw a back braking pick 6. Which they could not recover from.

  729. Buddy says:

    Who does Perk Valley play this coming week?

  730. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Also, just curious, not looking to get into the weeds here, and I’m really hoping for a Shanahan/PJPII game at some point in the coming weeks (think they should be playing every year early in the season, not sure why they are not), but……….

    “This game showed it’s who you play that shows how good you are. PJP played a tough out of conference schedule while Pottsgrove played cupcakes.”

    So a game against Berks Catholic automatically qualifies as a though out of conference schedule even tho your other 3 non conference games are against teams with a combined record of 4-19, with one of those 4 wins is against you??

  731. Buddy says:

    North Penn looked terrible Friday nite. I think they took CB East way too lightly. Their (NP) passing game was clicking ,

    which is the only reason they won. Key to stopping NP is to stop #7, which is what CB East did ( save one TD run).

    Defense is their weakness, usually offense is potent. But not Friday nite. MAYBE they make the D1 final, mainly

    cause everyone comes to their house, doubt that they win that final. Wanna see the D1 champ do well ( maybe beat),

    the next opponent. Tall order tho.

  732. Irish1 says:

    Lol meant @ foleman

  733. Irish1 says:

    @ Coleman @ Kevin X,. Pjp whipped Perk Valley last year. PV has surprised me some this year with how much their offense has taken off. They are tough because they can throw and run with QB who can do both. PJP is so well coached, game against Pottsgrove was best all around performance this year. Just wish they weren’t missing some of their key players due to injury. That could be the difference Friday night. PJP has nice mix ofseniors and underclassmen. Several freshmen get alot of playing time. If they can get the game on Friday to the 4th qtr they have a legit chance to win.

  734. BJ says:

    Hey Ryan, did you make it to the North Penn-CB East game? If so, what’s your take on how good North Penn is?
    And as far as your top 10 D1 rankings go, really can’t argue with your list either. Pretty close to the same thing Jack said. Looks like there’s a clear opinion that Garnet valley looks like the strongest team this year. Then 2-5 in whatever order PV, NP, Ctville, DTE. And 6-8 in whatever order Quakertown, Ridley and WCR.
    The team that I really don’t have any first-hand knowledge of or a good take on is Quakertown. Can’t figure out if they’re a legit contender for the D1 crown. On paper they look fantastic and obviously are having a great year. But they truly have played one of the weakest schedules of anybody. It’ll be most interesting to see just what they’re all about come play off time.

  735. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Rubber meets the road next week.

  736. Jack says:

    @ Ryan- have not been to a ton of games this season, but have been following really closely. I should of mentioned that I saw 2-5 on my rankings (Coatesville, DTown East, North Penn, and Perk Valley) as interchangable. Your list is really good as well, and you can make a case for all your rankings. Coatesville at 4 and DTown East at 5 makes sense since they are inconsistent and Perk Valley at 2 because have been consistent all year. North Penn has a good case for 3, but I had them lower than Coatesville and DTown East because they have not played anyone with speed or have played anyone outside of the SOL. The only teams I could see in the district title game challenging Garnet is 2-5 on my list. Also should of put Academy Park in HM as well, don’t see as a top ten team though because of the loss to Avon Grove. I also agree with your ranking of Quakertown, I don’t see them making it past the second round and if there is any top 6 seed who will be upset in the first round its most likely them. I can see your case for Unionville in the top ten, but watching them against DTown East, they looked overmatched on both sides of the ball, and did not look like a team that beat Rustin.

  737. Ryan says:

    GV – have won every game and they haven’t been close. Wouldn’t be shocked to see them lose with speed.

    PV and Coatesville are neck and neck. If they play again I wouldn’t be surprised if either team won. Perk Valley pass game is very good, while Coatesville can run the ball just as well as anyone.

    North Penn didn’t really impress me yesterday. Went to the game, didn’t think East was that good, #8 was the best player on the field.

    Downingtown East is Ok. Would be very surprised if they make it out of the 2nd round.

    Ridley played well against Garnet Valley until the second half when they look like the game was only a first half game. Last three games have been against terrible competition

    Quakertown haven’t lost but haven’t seen them play yet so can’t comment.

    Rustin haven’t seen them play but this is also purely based on the record.

    Academy Park can compete with any 5A, will have better athletes on the field than you, can they get you off the field on defense. Can see them making a run.

    Haven based on record against everyone but Garnet Valley

    Unionville because I wasn’t putting Springford- who was Ok today, OJR had 3-4 turnovers plus Springford have a freshman QB, Chester lost to Chichester, CBE wasn’t that impressed with – will lose to a team with speed, Would need see Upper Dublin or PWM haven’t seen them this year.

  738. Ryan says:

    @ Jack I disagree, with your rankings. How many games have you been to?

    1.) GV
    2.) Perk Valley
    3.) North Penn
    4.) Coatesville
    5.) Downingtown East
    6.) Ridley
    7.) Quakertown
    8.) Rustin
    9.) Academy Park
    10.) Unionville

  739. Jack says:

    I originally had Spring Ford as a honorable mention in my D1 rankings, but after todays performance they are the ten spot over CB West. Have played exceptional football since the Perk Valley game and could be 8-1 right now since their games with Perk Valley and Cumberland Valley were decided by one score.
    @BJ- you are correct I could see them playing spoiler and possibly knocking off a team like Quakertown or Ridley in the first round.

  740. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul 42-6 over Pottsgrove in front of a large crowd. PJP led 28-0 at the half and never looked back. Thought Pottsgrove would have been at least competitive with PJP having several starters out. Pottsgrove’s running game was completely shut down while their secondary seemed lost against PJP’S passing game. This game showed it’s who you play that shows how good you are. PJP played a tough out of conference schedule while Pottsgrove played cupcakes.

  741. BJ says:

    Jack, that’s a pretty accurate list of D1. I really can’t argue with any of your rankings. My only opinion would be Perkiomen Valley is no sleeper, I think everybody knows they’re a very good football team. The sleeper I see potentially making Waves is Spring Ford. I could see them taking out somebody like Ridley or Quakertown in the first round. Something like a 7 vs 10 or 6 vs 11 matchup.

  742. Jc says:

    Thank god your not a coach

  743. Kevin X says:

    Been doing some heavy duty mathematical analysis this morning, and well came up with a big fat TBD.

    Crunching numbers and attempting to predict the future as to determine if it will be Garnet Valley or North Penn with the top seed in the 6A D1 playoffs. If this were an election, I’d say it’s too close to call. If I was a gambling man, I’d put my money on North Penn. What I came up with:

    North Penn closed the gap last night, going into the night behind GV by 70 points, this morning only down by 30. With Upper Dublin playing this afternoon (CRN) more than likely you can add 10 more points to NP’s rankings. So by the end of the weekend, GV will only lead NP by 20 points.

    Next weekends given: NP will get 30 more bonus win points than GV by playing (and assuming beating) a 6 win CB South team who I saw last night and should not pose a threat to NP. While GV only plays a 3 win Lower Merion team (both CB South and LM are 6A schools). So right there you have a flip of NP taking over the No. 1 spot by 10 points.

    Now the fun TBD unknowns: Based on another given of common opponents playing each other (one has to win, one losses) and on the predictions of who wins the other games of teams that played GV and NP during the season, I see both GV and NP getting 50 bonus win points from next weekends games. Key game for Garnet is if Upper Darby can beat a good 4A Upper Moreland team (I have UM winning that game). Key game for NP is if Bensalem can upset Souderton (I have Soudy winning that game). The real fun possibility here is that Haverford does not have a game (so obviously no bonus win point there) and Upper Dublin is scheduled to play Hatboro Horsham who basically called it a season a few weeks ago, so I assume UD will get 10 bonus win points for the forfeit win. Now what would be cool is if Haverford and Upper Dublin would get together in a game that can conceivably determine the Number One seed. You’d also have Suburban One (Upper Dub) against the Central league (Haverford).

  744. Jack says:

    I follow football across the state, but primarily follow D1. Here are my rankings across all classes in D1 from what I have seen

    1. Garnet Valley 9-0 (6A- Central)- Uncontested number one in 6A-D1 bracket, no game has been close and is most likely going to win the district title. The only team in D1 from what I have seen who will be able to beat the D12 winner.
    2. Coatesville 8-1 (6A- Chesmont National)- Currently are the four seed in 6A-D1 bracket, but talent wise is up there with Garnet. Solid wins over Perk Valley, Chester, CB West, and Shanahan. Was closer than expected with DTown West two weeks ago, but still won. Only lost was a close to a solid William Penn team.
    3. Downingtown East 8-1 (6A- Chesmont National)- Currently are the three seed in 6A-D1 bracket. This may be a controversial take, but they have 6 wins over teams with winning records. When they are playing their best, they are a very tough team to stop. Only loss was to 5A-D1 one seed WC Rustin by two points. Was closer with Dtown West than expected, but should of won by more if they had converted on their redzone opportunities.
    4. North Penn 9-0 (6A- SOL National)- Currently are the two seed in 6A-D1 bracket. Have been solid all year, but lack that win over a top team and have some games that could of went either way.
    5. Perkiomen Valley 7-2 (6A- PAC Liberty)- Currently are the six seed in 6A-D1 bracket. Offense has looked great this year. Only two losses were to two great teams in Coatesville and Manheim Central. Could play spoiler or be sleeper pick in the 6A-D1 tourney.
    6.Ridley 8-1 (6A- Central)- Currently are the seven seed in 6A-D1 bracket. Only loss was to number one Garnet Valley and were able to keep it close for the first half. Lack a real marquee win, but have won most games pretty handily and won the last three by a combined score of 182-6.
    7. Quakertown 9-0 (6A- SOL Continental)- Currently are the four seed in 6A-D1 bracket. Defense has been outstanding. Though they are undefeated they have yet to beat a truly good team and play in an overall weak conference. Could see them losing early on in playoffs.
    8. West Chester Rustin 7-1 (5A- Chesmont American)- Currently are the one seed in 5A-D1 bracket. Outside of their only loss in the first game to Unionville, have looked great on both sides of the ball. Had a great win over Dtown East. I do not see anyone being able to stop the run game in the 5A-D1 bracket.
    9. Strath Haven 8-1 (5A- Central)- Currently are the two seed in 5A-D1 bracket. Have looked great outside of loss to Garnet Valley. Offense seems legit and will most likely make a run in 5A-D1 bracket.
    10. Central Bucks West 7-2 (6A- SOL National)- Currently are the nine seed in 6A-D1 bracket. Only two losses were top ranked teams in Coatesville and North Penn. Have beaten solid teams in the SOL National. Defense has looked good as well.
    Honorable Mentions-
    Unionville 8-1 (5A- Chesmont American)
    Central Bucks East 6-3 (6A- SOL National)
    Pennridge 6-3 (6A- SOL National)
    Chester 7-1 (5A- Delval)
    Spring Ford 5-3 (6A- PAC Liberty)
    Plymouth Whitemarsh 7-1 (5A- SOL American)
    Upper Dublin 6-2 (5A- SOL Continental)

  745. Jack says:

    @BJ- It was an awesome game. Though Downingtown East should of won by 21+ at least. East did not score in the redzone twice. If they had, they could of had a 3-4 touchdown lead at half, then a 4-5 touchdown lead with 9:00 left in the third. Still a great game and performance from Downingtown West, judging off the district power rankings a win next week will most likely give them a playoff berth and potential rematch with East. It took West awhile this season to really start playing, IMO talent wise they are top 10 in district one, but they have not been able to figure things out on the field. DTown East vs Coatesville should be interesting as usual.

  746. Jeff H. says:

    @JC – completely disagree, if a team is up 35+ points at halftime, what adjustments do they really need to make, and how much can be gained or learned from any adjustments when you are totally dominating and can literally name the final score. Coaches with any class pull their starters in such a situation, if not at half then maybe after 1 drive in the 3rd quarter, there’s a lot more to be gained long term by playing your second string in games like this than keeping your starters in to run up the score.

    Surprising final in 4A tonight in the WPIAL, McKeesport beat TJ 42-28, i figured the game would be close and McKeesport had a shot, but I’m shocked they put up 42 points on TJ’s defense. That sets up a huge game next week between undefeated Belle Vernon vs. McKeesport for the conference title and the #1 seed in the district playoffs, McKeesport’s only loss was to Canisius from NY. I’ve seen both teams this year although I saw McKeesport back in week 1, I think Belle Vernon wins and locks up the #1 seed.

    I also thought Central Valley would be challenged by Avonworth tonight but they mercy ruled them 43-6, I still think CV is the team to beat in 3A and right now I’d pick them to repeat as state champs, they appear to be on a collision course with undefeated North Catholic for the WPIAL 3A title.

  747. BJ says:

    Wow, what a great night of high school football. Downingtown West had the lead 28-27 late in the 4th quarter but Downingtown East scored a late touchdown and got the win. CBE gives North Penn all they can handle, but North Penn scores a late fourth quarter touchdown to win 28-21. Couple of playoff type games they played tonight.

  748. Kevin X says:

    PCL Red action tonight as well…….

    I’m off to Pennridge and CB South, as my D1/D12 2021 live tour continues…..

  749. Buddy says:

    @ kevin

    Should be. of course, I’ll be at the game.

    Wish NPTV would cover away games. They told me sometimes the away team don’t have facilities for their set-up.

    Plus they say it cost more $. Beats me.

  750. Kevin X says:

    Hey Jay,

    I’m guessing the North Penn/CB East game will be live on the North Penn You Tube channel tonight. All on NP’s home games so far this season have been.

  751. Buddy says:


    The team I follow does wholesale substitutions when game is out of hand. Ex.: In one game they were leading 35 to 0 at halftime.

    Game ENDED at 35 to 0. That’s the way it should be.


    Wrong. Putting in 2nd and 3rd stringers is not “easing” up. It’s giving non-starters a chance to play. Your comparison to academics is a totally different scenario.


    Yea , this Covid bug seems to be team specific. Interesting.

  752. Jc says:

    No team should ever pull starters at halftime of a football game. Your missing out on a huge point in a game. Halftime adjustments and how your team reacts after the break. One thing you could do is work on things you don’t normally do or excel at in the 3rd quarter. Pull your starters for the 4th. Kids that r good and want to play football and enjoy hs athletics shouldn’t be punished for excelling either. And I don’t know want to here about getting kids hurt or hurting other kids. If it was meant to be it was meant to be. It’s simple if you don’t want to get mercy ruled don’t lose by 35 points.

  753. Jay says:

    Any good live streams on tonight? Preferably Chesmont, and/or District 1? Or anything really I’ll take what I can get. I’ve been looking on google but it appears I’m not very good at it.

    Downingtown West upset tonight over East?

  754. Foleman says:

    Boone is saying that the game is cancelled due to “Covid Positive Athletes” Maybe the do nothings at District 3 should require proof of a Positive test if a team backs out but I’m not sure if that would be legal or not. I don’t think Rob Flowers-(Boone Coach) would duck anyone, but Hey, who knows, some sources on the sixers stated that Ben Simmons tried to get out of Game 7 with Atlanta telling his team mates he thinks he has Covid……which was proved False as he was quickly tested.

  755. mcd 65 says:

    I have seen several PCL games this year and am not surprised at the battles week in and week out since the PCL Red is pretty solid overall with many D-1 players throughout. IMO saint Joes needs to have a more improved passing game to make another run at a state Championship. Their defense is aggressive as usual and their run game with Jones [dual threat ] is solid. The playoffs should be interesting . Lasalle beat St Joe,. Roman beat LaSalle Wood beat Roman ,father Judge beat Roman Wood beat father Judge. What a mess LOL. Wood/lasalle next week . I think Wood wins .

  756. BJ says:

    JC, I don’t need to be the coach of either team to know what I would do in a couple of the specific situations. I would allow the quarterback who’s one yard from setting a record to start the second half and see if he can break the record on the first drive.
    I also know I would never have my starting quarterback playing in the fourth quarter of a game I’m up 42 – 0. Ridley has a very good team this year and it all revolves around their quarterback. If he goes down, their season is essentially over!
    I also disagree with your comment. You know exactly what you would do in those situations. Why you don’t want to answer, really not important.
    The Joneses, I agree 100%. Besides the fact you’re starting quarterback could get injured, valuable playing time and experience is being missed out on by the backups.

  757. Kevin X says:

    Does anyone know if the CDC is looking into this phenomenon of schools (or specifically football teams) that have students or team members testing positive for Covid or are taking Covid protocols to above and beyond so-called safety measures when they are about to face a team that is going to blow the doors off them?? Yet top tier teams seem to be immune to any Covid issues whatsoever?? What are they doing right?? Just really freaky, huh?? Oh yeah, schedule update, Daniel Boone just cancelled with Governor Mifflin.

  758. The Joneses says:

    @BJ I think there is a life lesson on both sides. If I were the coach for GV, I would have brought the starting QB out in the 3rd qtr with the second string team and let him complete one 5 yrd pass to get that great accomplishment. No humiliation there. Then I would have just played football with my second and third string. I would have called a few pass plays to get my backup QB some real game experience throwing against the other teams first string.

    Every player likely would love the opportunity to score, play etc. Some of third string players may also be third string and not likely to get a chance to play or score. I just wonder if people really think easing up on an opponent is teaching life lessons. Will professors in college ease up if they’re already failing? Will a boss tell your peer to pull back when he is far ahead of you for the promotion you are both up for? Will your competition stop taking you clients when more than half already left? I can see sports lessons, I am not sure I see life lessons.

    I would never do what Ridley did because it’s denying developmental opportunities for younger and less skilled players.

  759. Jc says:

    I think if your not the head coach of any of those teams in that situation that it is irrelevant what you think or what you think you would or wouldn’t do.

  760. BJ says:

    Teach the kids life lessons or run up the score and set records?
    I bring up this question because you see both of these things happen every week in football. Is one way right and one way wrong? Just want to get some opinions of what you would do as a coach. Going to use last week’s Garnet Valley/Haverford and Ridley/Lower Merion games as examples.
    Garnet Valley is beating Haverford 35 to 0 at halftime. They bench all starters and only play second and third string in the second half. They stop throwing the ball and are just trying to end the game as quickly as possible.The all-time record for passing in a game is 264 and Garnet Valley’s Max Busenkill had 263 at the half. He could obviously have started the second half thrown a 5-yard pass and set the all-time record. But this will never happen under a coach Ricki team. He just doesn’t believe in that kind of thing. It’s more important to not humiliate your opponent by beating them into the ground. Secondly, you don’t want any of your starting players to get injured while running up the score. Third, your second and third team players get valuable playing time for when their time comes to make an important start. Lastly, people respect you for playing the game the right way. Teaching your kids that how you behave when everything is going your way is as important as how you conduct yourself when you’re getting blown out.

    Ridley is dominating lower merion as they usually do, winning 35 to 0 at halftime. Ridley continues to play their first team into the fourth quarter and continues to pass the ball to get their quarterback John Heller the all-time record. After he sets the record and Ridley is up 49 to 0, his night is over. The mind thought of people who coach this way is that….1) the players have worked and practiced hard to execute and score as often as possible, let the kids enjoy a successful night. 2) Every kid wants to set a record when possible and that can’t be done if they’re only playing half a game. Should they really be penalized for being successful.? 3rd) You can’t worry about the other team’s feelings, if they worked as hard as you did, maybe they would have the same success.

    So, I believe this explains the dilemma I bring to the table. I know which way I would coach and what I think is the better way to coach, but what does everybody else think?

  761. Ryan says:

    @ Uncle T – Academy Park will have a chance to win district play, they just have athletes all over the field.

    Garnet Valley is playing for its coach and they have 36 seniors which help a ton. You have to figure they all play.

    @ BJ – As for Owen J Roberts.. I will tell you this. They are a 6A that doesn’t have the numbers as some of the other 6A teams, some guys play both ways. Now Offensively – they are stuck in the 90’s. Run Run Run and if they haven’t got many yards on first and second down, they have to throw it. Just not creative when it comes to the offensive side. No motion for mismatches, not putting the RB out wide an throwing to him, No RB screen’s. They run the spread without running the spread. Not creative on offense.

  762. Jeff H says:

    @Uncle T – Academy Park and the rest of DI 5A might not have to deal with Wood this year, but they will certainly have to deal with Imhotep who has as much if not more talent than Wood. The 2yr cycle ends this year, and Wood obviously won’t have any success points, so I think it’s likely they will be back in 5A starting next season, Kevin X made reference to that several weeks ago. Imhotep also has a lot of talent coming back next year, so the path to Hershey in the East goes through D12 until proven otherwise. Then again, the PIAA might flip the brackets like they did for 18-19 and put 6A/5A D12 in the West bracket so they would end up playing D7 in the semi-finals and put D3 back into the East, that decision comes out in Feb/March at the PIAA meetings so we’ll see.

  763. Uncle T says:

    @ Ryan: Where did I say anything negative about Academy Park? They’ve proven to be a top program, always a legit contender in 5A. I’d say the same thing about them as I did Garnet Valley from the Delco perspective- it’d be great if they went on a long Hershey run, and they have a far better chance now that they don’t have to deal with Wood for the next 2 years. I actually appreciate your report on their game with D-East as I said previously what I thought of the Cougars.

    I think D1 5A will be a very competitive and entertaining bracket once the 2nd round comes, with all the current top 9 seeds having an argument of being capable of winning it.

  764. BJ says:

    Springford should beat Owen j Roberts pretty handedly I believe. Springford’s gotten better as the year has gone along and Owen J Roberts just doesn’t have an offense to keep up.

  765. David Mika says:

    Ryan, It was moved to 2 PM. Thank you for letting me know.

  766. David Mika says:

    Ryan, I emailed Spring-Ford to double-check. I will post on here once I find out.

  767. Ryan says:

    @ BJ – Thank you, trying to get a feel about how good North Penn is this year.

    This year I’ve watched Downingtown East, Perk Valley, Chester, Coatesville, Academy Park, Governor Mifflin, Imhotep, Lasalle, Owen J. Roberts, and will see Springford this Saturday.

    This best two teams from that list I’ve seen have been Governor Mifflin and Perk Valley.

    @ Uncle T – Guess you haven’t watched Academy Park football for the Last 10 years as they are as consistent as the Garnet Valley teams. Maybe don’t have the number of kids but Winning they are right up there.

    @David Mika – What time is the Owen J Roberts/ Springford game on Saturday. Seeing 2PM and 7PM, please confirm a time.

  768. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy & BJ

    When the PIAA went to 6 classifications for football in 2016, District One went to the current system of all higher seeds hosting playoff games, including the championship game. Prior to 2016, when still 4 classifications for football, the championship game was held at neutral site.

  769. BJ says:

    Buddy, I agree, can remember a couple times off the top of my head that it was at a neutral site.

  770. Buddy says:


    Hasn’t always been that way. i can site many examples. but suffice to say……….. I’m glad.

  771. Jeff H says:

    @PhillyBoy – yes, Mt Lebanon is very good, I would be surprised if they don’t win the WPIAL title, I was at the Lebo vs. PCC game 2 weeks ago, PCC returned the opening kickoff for a TD, and Mt Lebanon basically took control after that, it was 21-7 when game was suspended midway through the 3rd quarter, and they finished them off the next morning when the game resumed. They don’t have any Power 5 recruits, but they have a receiver/DB going to Navy, and their running back Tecza is a very good high school back and is being recruited as a safety by FCS schools and Army. I told my Mt Lebo buddies when they hired Palko they would win a district title within 3 yrs, this is year 3 and he has them right on schedule. I think Lebo has a legit chance to get to Hershey, they would likely play Erie McDowell in the quarterfinals and the D3 winner in the semi-finals, but I don’t think they would beat the D12 winner if that’s their opponent in the final, although I would give them a shot against the D1 winner if they upset D12 in the semi-finals. IMO whoever comes out of the East will be the favorite in Hershey, that includes DI if they finally get over the hump and beat D12.

  772. BJ says:

    Buddy, the district one playoffs always play at the higher seeds home field. This includes the Championship game. Only reason a game might be played at a different site is because the home teams field isn’t up to par. But it’s clearly stated in the rules that the higher seed hosts the game.

  773. Buddy Hensler says:


    I know everything about North Penn………..but I’m not goin’ to tell you.

    The #1 seed is going to be tight ( It’s GV or NP for sure). Not sure where the D1 championship will be played.

    In the past they done either: D1 championship at the higher seed or D1 championship at a neutral field.

    Never understood why it went to a neutral field, but if GV is #1 seed, I hope it does.

  774. BJ says:

    Ryan, a report on the North Penn vs CBE game would be great. Don’t really expect a close game though, as CBE is a week 6 -2 team. There 6 wins have come against teams with a combined record of 17-32. North Penn really hasn’t played a tough schedule either, as their opponents are combined 27-36. But a first-hand report on North Penn would be cool. I too believe Perkiomen Valley’s spread offense will be a serious threat in the district one playoffs. Should be a great 4 weeks of district 1 playoffs, hope everybody stays healthy and no key players go down for anybody.
    Kevin, you are correct, if things fall the way you would expect them to, that North Penn will edge out GV as the number one seed. As you said, a lot of other games will come into play for that 10-point difference.

  775. Uncle T says:

    @ Kevin X: I’m a Delco guy so I’ll say it would be nice to see a long run by Garnet Valley to give area football a jolt in the arm. There’s been quite a buzz about them this year from a lot of the county’s lifers including coaches, ex-players, etc.. who hold this year’s team in pretty high regard, so we’ll see how it goes. I would agree that the Central is not what it was 10-20 years ago, but we could say similar things more recently about the Suburban One. Garnet Valley has tore through that league in the playoffs ever since there’s been a 6A, mercy ruling just about everyone except North Penn who they’re 1-1 against. Same with the Pioneer, which is a true paper tiger as you said.

    GV just hasn’t had the horses to keep up with Coatesville’s Young brothers, Ricky Ortega, and Dapree Bryant. Like BJ said though, they seem to be extra deep this year with an actual passing game, so the scales would be at least as even as they’ve ever been should the 2 meet again. I wouldn’t fault GV too much on that Ridley game by the way. They did something right at halftime to outscore them by something like 35-3 in the 2nd half, and I’ll put it out there that Ridley will be a sneaky tough out come playoff time against everybody outside the top 2.

    I’m most curious about D-Town East. I think their A game is really good, but their coaching staff has repeatedly come up small when it matters most. The next 2 weeks will tell us a ton more about them. Anyway it slices, it’s fun to think that that the East final could be competitive this year given the flux in the PCL.

  776. BJ says:

    Your recap of the Garnet valley Ridley game isn’t quite accurate Kevin. Ridley was leading at halftime 34 to 28. Ridley scored a field goal on their first possession of the second half and then Garnet valley scored 37 unanswered points. Ridley had a nice first half but once GV made the defensive adjustments, it was a slaughter. This is the only game GV played their starters in the fourth quarter. And I don’t believe your math is correct if North Penn and Garnet valley both win their last two games, Garnet valley will still end up the number one seed in District 1. Ryan I agree with you, I think Perkiomen Valley is going to be a tough out for anybody.

  777. Jay says:

    Been working the graveyard shift for the past year and a half almost, so I haven’t made one Friday night game since the season before last and as playoffs are around the corner it’s starting to get really depressing to me. I went to a Saturday game at Downingtown East recently, and on the only Saturday game Coatesville plays this year, yesterday, I had to go to New York. Looks like I missed a heck of a game too, as Chester is very talented now and looks like they’ll make a serious run in 5A.

    If Coatesville can’t get it done this year, I’ll root for Garnet Valley as they’re a terrific program and deserve to get to states for once.

    Glad to still keep up with this forum and read all your comments, at least it makes me feel like I’m not missing everything. Hopefully I’ll get back to a normal schedule soon or find some way to make some playoff games in November but 7pm kickoff is like staying up til 5am to me.

  778. Kevin X says:

    OK, I feel a small need to play Garnet contrarian for a moment. Don’t want to throw a wet blanket on their run to Hershey, but more of a slightly damp towel…….

    First, their game with Ridley, they were loosing that game late in the 3rd quarter, but Ridley basically self imploded the final third of that game.

    Second, the Central League. Let’s not get the Central League confused with the PCL Red. We’re not talking lacrosse. But feel free to be confused with the Pioneer, and anyone following District One football knows how that league fairs in the post season.

    Third, and this is going to be fun over the final two weeks. Right now Garnet is leading North Penn in the 6A D1 rankings by 70 points. If both teams win out, two givens are that NP will get 20 more points by playing 2 6A teams versus Garnet’s playing one 6A team and one 5A team. Second, North Penn will get at least 120 bonus win points for their two upcoming opponents vs. only 60 for Garnet. So that will give NP 10 more points in the ranking after week 10. Of course the moving part in all of this is in their opponents obtaining wins in the final two weeks. But most of them are league games, so they will be a wash. Garnet will be a D-Town West fan this weekend and hope they can beat rival D-Town East (DTW should handle Avon Grove week 10). NP meanwhile will be rooting for Souderton, Upped Dub and Truman, with more opportunity there to gain more bonus win points. So all of that may be huge to secure the Number 1 6A ranking and the home field in a potential 6A championship game.

    Long long long way yet to the final weekend in November, a few other teams will have something to say as well, so I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

  779. Ryan says:

    @BJ – I’ve watched Coatesville this weekend play Chester and didn’t come away impressed. Defensively they don’t look as good as usual, while offensively not doing much besides running with there QB. Heck the QB was playing Safety as well. Don’t believe I seen them throw a pass over 20 yards, everything was short.

    Downingtown East played Academy Park and I didn’t walk away impressed with DE. Academy Park had plenty of speed which DE couldn’t keep up with, Academy Park who was playing without there head coach, while also getting a good portion of kids back who were sick; had a few special teams errors that cost them the game. Academy Park had two opportunities to stop DE on DE’s 26 and 38 but couldn’t and got the ball back with like 1:10 left.

    Will be going to North Penn this Friday to watch them play CBE, will let you know what I see.

    The team that will make a good run I believe will be Perkiomen Valley.

    @phillyboy – Yes this is coach Ricci’s last year

  780. phillyboy says:

    @ BJ — You made a pretty strong case regarding Garnet Valley, nicely stated. And I didn’t realize that they’ve played most of the year without a D1 player who just returned, wow, maybe this IS their best team ever where everything comes together. Isn’t this Coach RIcci’s last year too, be nice to see them make take states. As long as they remain humble and hungry, who knows.

    @ Jeff H. — This Mount Lebanon team has been doing very well. They beat North Allegheny, a nice win, and then beat Pittsburgh Central Catholic by 3 TD’s, not too shabby. Heck, even Imhotep with all their D1 talent only beat PCC by 1 TD. I know you got your hand on the pulse out there, are they the real deal? Coach Palko is making his presence felt. Also, regarding Coach K, the former coach of Pine-Richland, be nice to see NA or some other strong public program pick him up.

  781. Buddy Hensler says:

    @ BJ

    Sounds about right. Hey. maybe they can beat the D12 rep.

  782. BJ says:

    If there was every year Garnet Valley was going to get past Coatesville and take the district 1 crown, this is the year. Starters have only played the first half in seven out of eight games this year. Their quarterback has 18 touchdowns and no interceptions and nobody has come close to stopping them. They gave Ridley and Strath Haven their only losses on the year quite handedly. They’re averaging 50 points a game while only giving up 13. Most of those 13 points a game have been given up on kick returns and by the second and third team defenses. They just got back their Navy commit running back/ lb this week after injuring his ankle in the first quarter of the second game. His first Carry of the game he went 80 yards for a touchdown. They have 36 seniors and are a deep team. I see Perkiomen Valley, North Penn, Downingtown East and Coatesville being good competition, but I see GV coming out on top. Quakertown has played nobody and I see them as a bit of a fraud and Pennridge has a nice defense but struggles offensively. I think the jags go 14-0 and then lose the D12 rep in a close game.

  783. mcd 65 says:

    Wood /Prep was a slugfest for three quarters with Prep pulling away in the fourth. The PCL is in turmoil with Judge beating Roman . What next ??

  784. Michael says:

    **found it

  785. Michael says:

    Does anyone have the cycle requirements? @Mike in Tacony wrote if GM only had one more boy in the class they would be 6A, anyone have the state wide cycle?

  786. mcd 65 says:

    @ Joneses, Wood and lasalle havent played yet this year. OK I will pick Wood in an upset although on paper prep by 14. Just want a good game.

  787. Ryan says:

    Don’t know if this has ever been discussed, but could you imagine if Imhotep found a way to the old Glen Mills school. Imhotep would be able to house these kids from crazy or bad environments, get funding from the state and become a national power, all while using the weight room, turf field, and become more of sports power in basketball, track, an any other sport.

    They would still get the kids from Philadelphia but now your reach would be able to get kids from Chester, Delaware, Bucks and Montgomery Counties.

  788. Mike in Tacony says:

    Thanks for the brackets, Dave! The PIAA site can be the black hole for information. I always seem to land on old links and past brackets.

    Foleman, I get that D3-6A is down but that seems to be true across much of the state this season, no? District 3 plays the D2-D4-D6 winner in the first round of the state playoffs again, (thankfully, instead of the stupid bye that they’ve had the past two years) and at least based on game results so far this year, I’d probably take any of 3-4 teams from D3 over the best of State College, Hazelton, or Delaware Valley – none of whom have looked particularly impressive – in the quarterfinals of the state playoffs. I do agree that Central York would be a sizable underdog vs. Mt. Lebanon in the 6A semi-finals, though, and that if Governor Mifflin had only 1 more boy in grades 9-11 for this cycle that they’d be the D3-6A rep.

    I’d put LaSalle and Prep in tier 1, the D1 winner & Mt. Lebanon in tier 2, and then everybody else in tier 3.

  789. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X & Foleman – I would agree 6A is more open this year than in the recent past, although I still think the PCL winner is the favorite, expect the D12 winner to beat the D11 winner (Parkland?) in the quarterfinals and play either NP or Garnet Valley in the semi-finals. Mt Lebo is clearly the favorite in the WPIAL and they would likely play Erie McDowell in the quarterfinals with the winner playing the D3 winner in the semi-finals, if I had to pick now I’d say Lebo against the PCL winner in Hershey

    5A still looks like a 2 horse race with Imhotep and GM, expect Imhotep to beat Erie Prep in the quarterfinals and the DI winner in the semi-finals, and GM to handle whoever emerges from the WPIAL in the other semi-final.

    In 4A I like Bishop McDevitt from D3 to get to Hershey from the east, Jersey Shore is in the west bracket and would be slated to play the WPIAL winner (TJ or Belle Vernon) in the semi-finals, I’ll say TJ wins the rematch with Belle Vernon and Jersey Shore and plays McDevitt in the final, although I’d love to see Belle Vernon get there so the rest of the state can see how dynamic their QB is, he’s the most exciting player in the WPIAL this year.

    3A might be the most wide open class, I could make the case for at least a handful of teams to win, the bracket is stacked in the East, I think Central Valley will get there for the third year in a row from the west, although they might get a challenge from North Catholic in the WPIAL playoffs, NC has been impressive with 5 shutouts in 7 games but they have played a weak schedule

    For a change 2A is pretty open too this year, the WPIAL has a handful of very good teams and as Kevin mentioned Farrell in D10 has been crushing everyone, I would make the Farrell/WPIAL semi-final winner the favorite in Hershey, first time in several years SC might be the underdog in the final if they get that far.

  790. Kevin X says:

    I mentioned this last week, so just a little reminder and helping Kevin C. spread the word……..

    “So excited for tonight as @jeffnolan1210 and I bring the @wphtscores Scoreboard Show to @1210WPHT. On from 10 pm to Midnight on the radio and @Audacyapp. Tune in, listen and spread the word please.”

  791. Buddy Hensler says:

    I see Garnet Valley winning the D1 final ( even tho I’m a NP fan). They always had a vicious running attack, hear it’s coupled with a passing attack this year.

    In the mix are the usual ; Coatesville, D-Town East, North Penn, maybe Ridley and possible Q-Town. However, no one gets past whoever comes outa D12.

    Not sure what’s out west, but again, no one gets past the D12 rep. Sure as hell hope I’m wrong tho !

  792. The Joneses says:

    I came on here today to see if some of the wiseman had posted who thought would come out on top between Wood and Prep. A little disappointed to not see anything since Paul and Jeff nailed it on LaSalle vs Prep and LaSalle vs Wood. The PCL could get very interesting with a Wood win tomorrow.

  793. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    I was going to mention a week or so ago how wide open 6A is in D1 this year. Up for grabs for about 8 or so teams that I see. Which is a good thing. I think I can also say that about 6A statewide, with St. Joe Prep appearing to come back to the pack, LaSalle getting tripped up last week, no real juggernaut coming out of the WPIAL that I can tell (Jeff H. can chime in here), really think 6A is up for grabs statewide. Again, a good thing. In fact, you can probably say that about 2A with SCA also appearing to be actually human and Farrell just steamrolling along out west (and a few WPIAL teams doing the same, again I’ll defer to Jeff H.), 3A top heavy, but anybody’s guess for eventual champion, ECP and Imhotep getting out to the way in 4A and opening that up for some new blood, 5A really a collision course between Mifflin and Imhotep, but probably my most anticipated potential future match-up, this may be the first time in years that I actually give a rat’s behind about the state semi finals and finals and not turning my focus to hs hoops after the D1 championships.

  794. mcd 65 says:

    A big test for Wood Saturday against St Joe Prep. Two Soph QBs matched up . Preps defense is so fast and Woods Defense is very physical. Hoping for a good game .

  795. Foleman says:

    Mike in Tacony, Whoever wins District 3 6A will get beat in the 1st round of the State playoffs, D3 6A is very weak this year. Central York is the top rated team, watched them against 5A Exeter in week 1 and wasn’t impressed at all. Exeter pushed them around but mistakes and dumb play calling cost them the game, and this is the same Exeter team that got beat by 35 points by Governor Mifflin last week. 6a Winner will be out of District 1-N. Penn or Garnet Valley or District 11-Anybody’s guess

  796. David Mika says:

    I will take out spaces once I enter the games…I think you’re right its only 4 teams.

  797. Matt says:


    Quick question regarding state brackets. In d11 2A, I thought there was only four teams that make it. Your dist 11 2A bracket has four teams but 2A state bracket had d11 having 8 teams. Is it 4 or 8 in D11 2A this year? Thanks.

  798. David Mika says:

    Mike…We have a template out for statewide and district brackets….

  799. Mike in Tacony says:

    I still haven’t seen the state brackets anywhere. Are they keeping the same format as last year?

    Hasn’t been much chatter in the forum recently outside of Prep / LaSalle and 3A. Who are the current favorites to win districts in 6A in the East? Central York, Parkland, and Garnet Valley? My only time watching Harrisburg was when they got pummeled by Governor Mifflin so it was tough to get a read on how they (Harrisburg) might stack up against Central York, especially since Central York plays in such a weak league.

  800. MikeS says:

    Actually mcd65, the QB you are referring to returned back home to Quakertown after starting for Wood as a Freshman. There were 2 others that played on the team he QB at Wood who were originally from Q-town. They had a heck of a team that year & with the 3 that started for Wood, may have made a run themselves. Love to see West beat North Penn, but come the 4th qtr North Penn is too deep for them

  801. mcd 65 says:

    Mike S. ,I believe the QB for a couple of those Q-Town teams was a transfer from Wood. We all know Sub ! has very good teams. I hope West can Upset North Penn this week. Go Bucks !!!!

  802. The Joneses says:

    @FrankG yes you are right on it. It’s like calling Ben Simmons an Allstar in the same sentence as Kevin Durant and forgetting Ben wasn’t voted in or even a coaches pick. Souderton starters had a great game against the second and third team for Prep. I was in the stands watching. Some kids who only play garbage time got chewed out for allowing that to happen.

  803. FrankG says:

    I have zero interest in putting down Suburban One or District One, but pointing to the final score–it was actually 51-43–of the SJP-Souderton game last year is an enormous stretch. SJP was ahead 51-7 early in the second half. Great that Souderton’s starters played so well against SJP’s subs, scoring right up to the final seconds, but anyone who saw the game, as I did via a livestream, knows what they saw.

  804. MikeS says:


    Hatboro Horsham has struggled with low number the last two years, but particularly this year, covid may have played a same role but not the underlying issue. As far as Quakertown being no real competition. That was said lsst year when Souderton played St. Joe’s, final score 51-45 I believe. Yeah Suburban One is terrible, North Penn, CB West, CB East, Quakertown, etc. Most of which have kids playing in the Catholic League

  805. FrankG says:

    Local Bucks Co. newspaper reports Hatboro-Horsham cancelled the three games because of low numbers–not Covid, though I suppose there could be a connection. Any other schools struggling with low numbers?

  806. MikeS says:

    Hi Kevin X

    Yeah, maybe an interesting game, but what’s really in it for Quakertown? As is they get a week off to attend to their injuries in preparing for the playoffs, immediately after the 3 toughest games on their schedule. Also for a little history, last time Quakertown scheduled a Catholic team, 3 or 4 years later, 3 of their better players were playing for that particular Catholic team as they rolled forward toward a State Championship. Interestingly enough Quakertown had if my memory serves me correctly a 11 & 2 team that lost in the District One playoffs, HHHHHmmmm would they have been without losing those 3 players. Also generally speaking being so far out of the city they don’t lose many players to Catholic teams, so seems the two events tie together quite nicely. I get it that the Catholic League recruits, I know of one of the better Middle School players in the area is visiting a Prep school today, so it’s happening all the time. But why would it be in their interest to help them look at players, instead of giving their injuried kids a rest a couple weeks before the playoffs? Just, knowing History, doesn’t make sense. But interesting thought!

  807. Buddy Hensler says:


    I doubt Q-Town would accept the challenge. The teams they have beaten aren’t in the same league as LaSalle.

    Plus, I think they want to go undefeated. I assume Hatboro ending their season is due to covid, not lack of players?

  808. mcd 65 says:

    Thanks for the clarification on the prep/Wood game. @ Kevin, YUP CB West/North Penn Friday and Wood /Prep Saturday. Quite a pair of big time games .

  809. Kevin X says:

    From Mike Cabrey’s Twitter:

    “Per its schedule website, Hatboro-Horsham football has canceled its final 3 games (Friday vs. Quakertown, Oct. 22 vs. Souderton, Oct. 29 vs. Upper Dublin).”

    I know LaSalle has a scheduled bye this week, but a Q-Town/LaSalle match-up is intriguing. Get back on your proverbial horse sooner rather than later after that tough loss to RC. Would Q-Town accept the challenge tho????

  810. Kevin X says:

    @ McD 65

    Crazy thing is, the Wood website has Friday night, and The Prep’s Website has Saturday afternoon (1p). So I went to the tiebreaker, Wm. Tennant’s website and they are home Friday night, so I am am going to go with the Wood/SJP game will be Saturday afternoon. Just my logic at play here. But that also would be very nice, as then its Friday night on D-Town, Sat. afternoon in Warminster.

  811. FrankG says:

    Wood has the game on Saturday at 1:00 at Tennant. I think that’s accurate.

  812. David Mika says:

    MCD 65……They moved it to 1pm….St. Joseph’s Prep (3-2) @ Archbishop Wood (5-2) 01:00 PM Notes: at William Tennent HS

  813. mcd 65 says:

    Does anyone know for sure when the Prep/Wood game will be played this weekend ?? This site says Friday night and max Prep says saturday at 1

  814. The Joneses says:

    @Jeff H – heck of a call man! I think I will just wait to see what you and @Paul has to say each week to know what’s going on. Jeff I think you’re right about LaSalle. The luster is off, no more undefeated and it happened at time where it doesn’t matter much in the longer run. I am sure Wood is really pumped for this weeks game against the Prep after seeing LaSalle beat Prep and Roman beat LaSalle. Could this be the first year in a long time that Prep and LaSalle are not 1-2 in the PCL playoffs?

  815. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Jeff H

    thought the same thing about the La Salle game but Roman showed them “why they play the game”. Sends the PCL into a little bit of a horse race!!

  816. Jeff H. says:

    Looks like I was on to something with LaSalle having a big letdown after last week, I figured they’d sleepwalk through the first half and then get their act together but they actually go down to Roman in a big upset 27-20. I’m sure some will disagree with me but that loss might be good for them in the long run, we’ll see.

    Mt Lebo finished what they started last night and beat PCC 35-14, after giving up an opening kickoff return they only gave up 7 points the rest of the way, very impressive win for Lebo and they are now the clear favorite to win a WPIAL for the first time in 21 years and then likely face Erie McDowell in the quarterfinals. Lebo has a very balanced offense, excellent running back, very good receiver going to Navy, a good high school quarterback who throws a really nice ball and is very savvy, and their defense is solid, they will be a tough out in the playoffs with veteran coach Bob Palko.

    @Matt – I saw that score and agree about those 2 being on collision course, right now it looks like the winner of that game against Central Valley in Hershey for 3a.

  817. Kevin X says:

    Well there was certainly something rotten for LaSalle this afternoon in Denmark……..

  818. phillyboy says:

    @ Kevin X — Wow, that is awesome news regarding the return of the ‘Scoreboard Show’ — are you kidding me?! And it’s going to air on 1210 WPHT, I already have that programmed into my settings. A while back I actually commented that they should put the show on 94 WIP or possibly 97.5 The Fanatic, figuring they could justify dedicating a few hours per week to high school ball, throw the high school football fans a bone. Yeah those 50,000 watt stations are no joke. I remember picking up the news station 1060 KYW while in the Steubenville, Ohio area a while back, whoa, did a double take on that one. Meanwhile, as you indicated, 1440 WNPV was weak, if you weren’t in the immediate Lansdale, Montgomery County area, good luck picking that up. Back in the day, after attending a North Penn game, sometimes I would deliberately linger (at a Wawa or Wendy’s) just to be able to listen to the ‘Scoreboard Show’ before heading back to North Philly.

  819. Matt says:

    North Schuylkill pounded NDGP last night in a matchup of two top 5 teams in 3A including top ranked North Schuylkill. Looks like North Schuylkill and Wyomissing are on collusion course in 3A state playoffs.

  820. Foleman says:

    Governor Mifflin 54-Exeter 21 This game was over with after the 1st play-a 75 yard TD on the opening kickoff by Mifflin. A lifeless, mistake prone Exeter looked liked they couldn’t wait until the game was over. 33-7 at the half. I knew what Mifflin could do on offense with Singleton, Martin and Rock, was very impressed with their defense. Mifflin’s defensive backs are very good. Few teams do less with more than Exeter who has several highly rated players on their roster. Penn State is looking at Exeter’s 6’6 Tight end Joey Schlaffer who made several nice plays in the game.

  821. Kevin X says:

    I just copied and pasted this from Kevin Cooney’s Twitter:

    “Thrilled to announce that Jeff Nolan & I are bringing the Friday Night High School Football Scoreboard Show back on
    starting next Friday, 10 p.m-12 am. Follow us at
    for the remainder of the high school football season and tune in to 1210 and the Audacy app.”

    “We loved doing the Scoreboard Show at WNPV for 20 years. We’re expanding to cover the entire landscape of the region, highlighting the players, coaches and teams that make high school football our civic passion on a Friday night.”

    Wow from a low level local night time signal station to a 50,000 watt flamethrower of a station. Will probably be able listen to the show while driving in Toledo (and beyond)!!!

  822. Jeff H says:

    @ The Joneses & Mcd 65 – thanks for your insight on Roman, sounds like good timing to play LaSalle after last week but they don’t have the horses to keep up with them for four quarters, I wouldn’t be surprised though if its a 1 score game at halftime and LaSalle pulls away in the 2nd half. .

    Going to the big game in the WPIAL tonight with Lebo hosting PCC, these are clearly the top 2 teams in 6A and would be very surprised if they don’t meet for the district title next month. Lebo beat them 37-30 in the regular season last year but were shut out in the playoffs 35-0, I think Lebo will win tonight and be the #1 seed in the playoffs but won’t be quite as high scoring as last years game.

    Anyone have any thoughts on GM vs. Exeter tonight, I think GM ends up winning by 3 TD’s, something like 42-21. GM reminds me of PR last year in I think they are 2 TD’s+ better than any other team in their district, PR was that much better than every other WPIAL team last year, including TJ and PCC.

  823. The Joneses says:

    @JeffH Roman will only beat Father Judge in the PCL. I do agree this is a setup game, but Roman just doesn’t have it. If this was Wood it would be a better chance in my opinion.

  824. Kevin X says:

    Why do I think if that CB West wasn’t scheduled to play North Penn next week that they’d be more actively seeking a game for this weekend, especially if they could secure a home game.

    Is the Haverford School still looking for a game this weekend??

  825. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jeff, I saw Roman scrimmage CB West and I thought they had some very skilled players . A good dual threat QB , a solid Rb and a gifted soph WR who is very fast. Their line is definitely above average in size. With all this They still need cohesion. I doubt if they can hang with lasalle. I am going to try to attend the game.

  826. David Mika says:

    Hi Kevin X…I did reach out to CB West HC…But he did say yesterday, they aren’t looking anymore.

  827. Kevin X says:

    Anybody up for an Easton/CB West game this weekend?? Preferably in Doylestown so I can go 🙂

  828. Jeff H says:

    Just curious if any of you guys that follow the PCL think Roman has a chance to put a scare into LaSalle this weekend. I’m not saying upset them, but keep it close into the 2nd half and make it interesting, does LaSalle have any kind of a letdown after their big win last week? Seems to me Roman might be catching them at a good time, but I don’t know enough about them to know if they have the talent to hang with LaSalle.

    @Foleman – I didn’t remember Wyomissing also beat Imhotep in the semi-finals, I too recall Aliquippa looking bewildered in the 2nd half of that game, I think that was the only time they trailed in the 2nd half all season and they didn’t know how to react. Some people around here were talking about how that team was one of the best in Aliquippa history and I think the players thought there was no way they were going to lose and were stunned when they found themselves in a dogfight in the 2nd half.

  829. The Joneses says:

    @Paul it was you with a foresight. I don’t know if it will be more convincing. All arrows point to LaSalle. They didn’t appear to lack anything in that game. Historically they tend to get too excited on a Prep and loose focus on the long term goal see 2015. I was at that game and many will point to a bad pass interference call. LaSalle could have and should have still won they game, but they didn’t play aggressive to score in regulation, played for a field goal in OT and Parkland won. LaSalle will be undefeated still when the PCL playoff matchup happens. All the confidence in the world and a solid game plan. That’s a scary opponent for anyone. Prep is wounded and can only be healed with a win in that game.

    @ScottyB, Kevin X and Mcd_65 ANC in no way should be on the same field with St Francis. I can’t recall if St Francis does post grads. If not, I wouldn’t expect anyone to get hurt. Just beat up morally and a bruised running back.

  830. The Joneses says:

    @Foleman yeah I saw that and read an article on it before. It seems in the long run worked for the players because they play a national schedule.

  831. Foleman says:

    HBO had a series on St. Francis-the Cost of Winning-
    Biff Poggi, a wealthy Hedge Fund Manager took over the program and used his money to recruit local poverty stricken athletes and from across the US to play for the School. Biff turned the tiny, poor Catholic School located in Baltimore into a National Powerhouse but at great cost. SFA got kicked out of their league and no team in the region will play them anymore citing potential injury to players.

  832. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X
    @ mcd_65

    I saw that as well and it’s absolutely silly they would schedule that game. I did some digging and SFA is currently 3-1 and their only loss was to St. Thomas Aquinas (FL) and they most recently beat De La Salle (CA) 42-28. Conversely, I saw that ANC stands at 2-3 and lost 9-8 to New Hope-Solebury. The same New Hope-Solebury that PJPII beat 51-0. Yikes.

    I really hope nobody gets seriously hurt.

  833. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin X , I saw that too about st francis . This is a complete joke and those Academy of new church kids could be injured . They will be destroyed. This game should not happen and whoever scheduled it needs to be questioned about their intention.

  834. Foleman says:

    Jeff H, Wyo also crushed Imhotep 35-13 in the 2012 Semi’s I remember Aliquippa completely falling apart late in that game as they never had to come from behind against a good team all year. Wyo had a few tough games in the regular season while the Quips were averaging 50+ points PG while giving up only a few points per game.

  835. Kevin X says:

    Am I reading this schedule correctly?? National powerhouse St Francis Academy out of Baltimore is playing 2-3 “A” equivalent Academy of the New Church Saturday afternoon?? is this a joke I’m not getting??

  836. Jeff H. says:

    @ Mike in Tacony – and I would add that slow wing-T Wyomissing team defeated an Aliquippa team with superior athletes in the 2012 state final 17-14 in what most considered a big upset at the time, Aliquippa destroyed everyone that year and most of their games were mercy rules until they ran into an extremely well coached team in Hershey that executed their game plan to perfection, prior to that game the fewest points the Quips scored that year was 34 in the WPIAL final against Washington which they won 34-7.

  837. Paul from Philly says:

    @the Joneses

    That game solidifies La Salle as the team to beat. It went a long way in the mental department of the La Salle players too. Now they know they can handle the Prep. As you mentioned, they will probably face each other again in the PCL championship and I do believe La Salle will win in a much more convincing way!!

  838. Mike in Tacony says:

    Whoa there! Can’t just let Gary knock slow wing-T teams lol

    I don’t know why Wilmington being a slow wing-T team is a knock. They’ve won a lot of football games. Southern Columbia is basically a slow wing-T team. They’ve won a bunch of games, too. And they just had their streak snapped by yet another slow wing-T team in Wyomissing. Those three programs have all won state titles and have 22 state title game appearances between them.

    In small class football, good coaching staffs and stable schemes (such as the wing-T) provide year-to-year consistency for youth development. These programs often only lose to teams with superior athletes, but that’s in spite of the schemes, not because of them. Not every coach with only 40 boys to pick from has the luxury of designing an offense that assumes that those 40 boys include the future state champion 4×100 track team, a la Aliquippa, Clairton, Steelton-Highspire, or, in my day, Scotland.

    Any predictions for Malvern Prep vs Spalding this weekend?

  839. Jeff H. says:

    @ Gary Z – Thanks, I didn’t realize Farrell plays Wilmington this week so that will tell us about the pecking order in D10, I have not seen any tape on Farrell so I defer to you, I just know their history and they’ve been very good recently and have fared pretty well against WPIAL teams over the years. I do know both Sto-Rox and SV are loaded with athletes and speed and the SV running back is one of the best in the WPIAL, and either team is going to be a very tough out in the state playoffs. I see the big schools in person and just follow the smaller schools, going to see Mt Lebo vs. PCC this week, that should be a very entertaining game and I think Lebo has a pretty good chance to beat them at home, expect a sellout crowd and rocking atmosphere like TJ vs. Belle Vernon a couple of weeks ago.

  840. The Joneses says:

    KUDOS to LaSalle players and coaches. That’s the first time I ever saw Prep out Coached. Even though LaSalle trailed twice in the game, it never seemed like they were out of it. This game felt very much like the Milton game so maybe (I forget who said it) Prep was exposed. The rematch is also interesting. Too bad the rest of the PCL teams are so bad that its a virtual guarantee the rematch happens.

    Wow SC looses as well. This is indeed a very interesting season.

  841. Gary Z says:

    @ Jeff H
    Good insight as usual from ya bud. Honestly I have seen Farrell, they are not on same level as S. Valley or Sto-Rox. Granted they have speed, but I don’t think they can deal w either WPIAL team. But that’s why they play the games. S.V. has an elite RB w solid skills around them. They also are very good upfront. Sto-Rox just has a TON of skill. Including two very high end QB’s who also play WR when other is behind Center. They put up so many points because teams just can’t deal w the speed and athletes.

  842. Jeff H says:

    @ Gary Z – agree with you about Steel Valley and Sto Rox, but I wouldn’t count out Farrell from D10, I expect they will beat Wilmington for the D10 title and face the WPIAL winner in the semi-finals in what should be a great game with speed to burn on both sides. It would be kinda ironic if SC does end up playing Steel Valley in Hershey since they were the last team to beat them until Wyomissing.

    I was in Erie over the weekend and ran into a buddy who went to the McDowell game on Friday and he said they looked impressive in handling Erie Prep 31-12, he feels Prep is about the same level or a little better than last year but not nearly as good as their 3 state championship teams. Based on his thoughts on the game it appears McDowell may give the WPIAL winner (either PCC or Mt. Lebo) a pretty competitive game in the 6a quarterfinals, and Prep is not on the level of either Mifflin or Imhotep, so it appears to me to be a 2 team race in 5a.

    @ Kevin X – thanks, at least I was half right on the score, LOL! The presumed rematch for the PCL championship next month should be very interesting to say the least.

  843. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Think both of us should stick to our respected day jobs, especially me. Kudos tho to you for nailing The Prep’s “21”!!! Any thoughts on tomorrow’s Powerball numbers?? 🙂

  844. Gary Z says:

    S.C. is a great program with a legend of a coach. However why they were not moved up, or chose not to, takes a little shine off of them in my opinion. They are going to face either Sto-Rox or Steel Valley in the finals. Both of which have a crazy amount of team speed and athletes. With some D1 skills. So if SC makes the finals, will not be against a slow Wing-T team like D10 Wilmington. Sto-Rox and Steel Valley are Clairton type teams. Trust me, minus T.Boyd, but just as much team speed n athletes. So I hope that’s the matchup. Yes… Central Valley is still loaded, great line and awesome speed n athletes at the skill.

  845. mcd 65 says:

    How about LaSalle !!!! What a great game plan and execution. Rematch will be very interesting in the playoffs . Southern Columbia and st Joe Prep both go down the same week .

  846. Jeff H. says:

    @ Mike in Tacony – Central Valley is very good but I don’t think quite as good as last year, Sean Fitzimmons is a stud on Dline and he’s going to Pitt, they also have a very good running back in Landon Alexander and some nice receivers. 3a is down in the WPIAL this year, it’s CV and everyone else, I would be shocked if the don’t win the WPIAL title, I think they are the biggest favorite in any class to win a WPIAL title. The Beaver county schools outside of Aliquippa are down, and of course the Quips are forced up to 4a, CV beat them 21-12 in week 2, and that might be CV’s closest game until the state playoffs.

    I think 5 of the 6 best teams in 3a are in the east, the 2 D11 schools as mentioned in ND Green Pond and N Schuykill, Wyoming/Scranton Prep from D2, and Wyomissing, Neumann-Goretti could also make some noise in the playoffs. It’s hard for me to see CV losing before the state final unless Central Martinsburg or Bedford are a lot better than I think they are and admittedly I don’t know anything about them, just historically speaking D5 and D6 have not fared too well against D7 in the playoffs, outside of Bishop Guilfoyle. And I would expect CV would beat Sharon from D10 if that’s who they end up playing in the semi-finals, I think the D10 winner plays the D5-D6 regional winner in the quarters.

  847. Jeff H. says:

    Wow, first Southern Columbia goes down last night, then SJP this afternoon to LaSalle 28-21, congrats to LaSalle, I didn’t foresee them scoring that many points on SJP’s defense. I did a little research and the last time SC and SJP lost on the same weekend was Nov 21-22 in 2013, SC fell to Old Forge 19-14. and SJP lost to Malvern Prep 24-20. SJP went on to win their first state title that year beating PCC 35-10 and Old Forge lost 14-13 to North Catholic from the WPIAL. That to me is amazing it’s been almost 8 years since those teams lost on the same weekend, as a neutral observer I that’s great for HS football in this state.

  848. Foleman says:

    Mike in Tacony, Nitro started off as a guard last year and Wyo’s coaches who are among the best in the business moved him to Fullback where he was unstoppable until the Championship game. I think that last years team had more talent across the board, however, this year’s Wyo team looks more stout up front and might be a tad more explosive. With Berks Catholic off the schedule I don’t think they will be challenged until they meet up with the D11 winner. I have seen highlights of N.Schuykill on the big ticket and they look big and strong, and watching N. Schuykill’s version of “The BUS” is a lot of fun.

  849. Matt says:

    @Mike,…..yes, North Schuylkill is the real deal. They have great lines and have tons of skill. They use a 6 ft 300lb as a fullback. He runs over defenses. Had 85 yds last night on 15 carries. NS put up 700 yds last night. Northern Lehigh is a good football team and their defense played well and got a couple take aways against Notre Dame Green Pond and NS just put up big play after big play. Although Northern got them also with 3 60yd plus td plays. I think if NS has a weakness it’s giving up the big play. Wyo might be able to get some on them if they play. Notre Dame also is a big play offense and will test NS next weekend in what should be a preview of dist 3A champ game.

  850. Matt says:

    Also @Jeff,

    You’re right. 3A in east is stacked. Wyo and North Schuylkill might be on collision course. North Schuylkill has tons of talent and weapons and are ranked 1 in 3A for a reason. But they have to get past Notre Dame GP in 3A in dist 11 who is also loaded with talent. Wyoming area and Scranton Prep are also very good teams. Should be interesting in 3A east this year.

  851. Matt says:


    Yep, AA is more open this year than it has been last five years. Congrats to Wyomissing on that win. Them vs North Schuylkill would be a heck of a game in AAA state playoffs. North Schuylkill beat my alma mater Northern Lehigh by two tds in a shootout last night. Northern Lehigh is 3-3 in 2A but lost to rival state ranked 4A Northwestern on a missed two or conv., state ranked 3A Notre Dame by one score, and last night to state ranked number 1 in 3A North Schuylkill by 2 tds. They opened the season beating state ranked number 1 in A Muncy. They might be one of the better 2A teams in the east (of course way behind southern). I think they finish 7-3 and are favorite in dist 11 2A (but other rival Palmerton is having a good year although they have a much weaker schedule). Notre Dame GP plays North Schuylkill next week in what probably is a preview of the dist 11 3A champ game.

  852. Mike in Tacony says:

    Wyomissing pretty much pitched a perfect game last night while Southern Columbia made a lot of mistakes. However, even taking that out of the equation, Wyomissing absolutely dominated the line of scrimmage. Very impressive win.

    @Foleman – regarding this year’s Wyomissing team vs last year’s team, I had been told that last year’s team was a little better, but this version certainly looked much more dynamic on offense. Seemed to have a bit more team speed, too.

    For all of the press last year about their fullback with the perfect football last name (“Nitro”), I wonder after watching some of last night’s game if it would have been better to stick him at guard or tight end and have some of these kids who are now juniors touch the ball more. Much more explosive runners. You seem to know the program well. Curious on your thoughts.

    Any word on the strength of Central Valley this year vs. last year? Shouldn’t there be at least half a dozen other state-title caliber programs in Beaver County competing with CV, too? lol. And Jeff, I agree about the depth in the East. I have not seen them this year but everyone says North Schuylkill is great. They have a tough game with Notre Dame GP next weekend.

  853. Jeff H. says:

    @Matt – I agree, incredible run for SC, and yes they are still the favorite, but 2A looks to be a lot more competitive this year than the last 4 yrs, either Farrell or the WPIAL winner is going to be a formidable opponent in the finals. The WPIAL has several very good teams in 2A led by Sto-Rox and Washington, and Steel Valley has been flying under the radar but blasted previously undefeated Ligonier Valley tonight 40-0.

    @Foleman – might be headed for a rematch in 3a with Central Valley vs. Wyomissing, although Wyomissing has a lot more difficult road to Hershey, almost all of the good 3a teams are in the East this year, the D2 winner will be a factor, same for the D11 winner, but that certainly was an impressive win tonight.

  854. Jeff H says:

    @JC – we agree to disagree about Mifflin, they are clearly one of the best teams in the state and head and shoulders above almost every other team in 5a. I have seen every team in 5a in the WPIAL and Mifflin is a lot better than any of them. No one is saying they are unbeatable, but I like their chances against any team including Imhotep. By the way who said Imhotep was untouchable? They have an excellent defense, but their offense is pretty basic and they struggle to move the ball against good defenses like LaSalle and PCC in the first game of the year. Last year Pine Richland went wire to wire as number 1 in 5a, I said early in the season I didn’t think they would lose and they didn’t, although Mifflin should have beaten them in the semi-finals. We’ll see what happens, that’s why they play the games, but I’ll take Mifflin to win 5a and give you every other team in the field.

    Huge shoutout to Wyomissing for ending Southern Columbia’s 65 game winning streak, they are celebrating in Clairton tonight as their state record 66 game winning streak lives on!

    @Kevin X – I don’t think SJP will score 31 against LaSalle’s defense, I’ll say 21-10 for SJP.

  855. Matt says:

    SC finally loses. What a run….almost five years without a loss. They should still be favorite in 2A though.

  856. Foleman says:

    Wyomissing 41-S. Columbia 21 The longest active winning streak in HS football is over. Wyo stormed out to a 24-6 lead and never looked back. 5 turnovers from S. Columbia which almost never happens. Wyo’s Div 1 lineman jven Williams was a monster, I can see why Penn State is after him.

  857. Jc says:

    It amazes me how so many people can go watch a game and somehow come out of it that this team is almost unbeatable. Never one anything but became unbeatable. I seen them play and I know they are that good!!! Lol It’s embarrassing and it gives your team the good old kiss of death. I have nothing against govenor mifflin. I hope they do win, but wait and let them get there and win it once anyway before you crown them unbeatable. Imotep was untouchable and probably not scored upon earlier, they lost, southern was the best southern team ever after a scrimmage, they almost lost once already and will have there hands full tonight, the moral of the story is don’t be the guy that jinxes a good thing. Govenor mifflin is not head and shoulders above everyone there only a injury away, just like most other high school teams , from being an also ran. Enjoy there wins don’t jinx there future Mr. greek

  858. Kevin X says:

    FWIW, since someone tossed it out there………SJP 31 – LaSalle 13

  859. Jeff H. says:

    @ Mike in Tacony – I agree with you about Mifflin, in my opinion they are the favorite to win 5A, and I think the only team that matches up with them and has a shot is Imhotep. I know Erie Prep is very good, but I don’t think they are on a level this year with Mifflin. I don’t think anyone is going to beat Mifflin in a shootout, you’ve got to somehow slow down their offense and limit their possessions, and Imhotep appears to be the only 5A team in the state that has a realistic chance to do that. I haven’t seen Mifflin in person this year, but I was at the Mifflin vs. PR classic last year, and I left that game knowing with the kids they had coming back this year with Singleton & company they were probably going to be the team to beat in 5A, and nothing I’ve read or seen on tape this year has changed my thinking. I don’t like Exeter’s chances against them, I think Mifflin wins that game by 3 scores, we’ll see.

  860. Mike in Tacony says:

    Sorry, I just don’t see the value in Any Given Sunday platitudes. Yes, Team A might beat Team B, Team C might win a championship, and the plague might rip through a locker room. Now that we’ve all agreed that nothing is certain, maybe we can shelve the vacuous coach-speak? It provides zero insight and stakes no position. It’s a discussion site. Give an opinion. Something might happen isn’t an opinion. It’s a statement of the obvious. Feel free to name the program that is going to beat Governor Mifflin. I’ve seen them play and more importantly, the numbers don’t lie. Imhotep is the only 5A school that can slow down their offense and I won’t be curbing my confidence until evidence, not platitudes, suggests that I should.

  861. FrankG says:

    @Wilson4Ever SJP has won the last nine games they’ve played against LaSalle and 14 of the last 15. No one expects this game to be like the blowouts of the last 2-3 years. The Prep’s QB, most of the running backs and nearly all the receivers are sophomores who are very promising but not, at least as of now, close to last year’s core group. LaSalle’s D has been very good. So I’m not expecting the Prep to put up a lot of points–maybe 17-21? LaSalle hasn’t scored much when they’ve played teams with good defenses (Tep and Malvern) and I think Trotter, Heard, and Co. can contain Brown. The game may come down to how well LaSalle can pass against SJP and which team makes the most costly turnover(s). I know that sounds like stating the obvious.

    Of course, they are very likely to play again in six weeks.

  862. Foleman says:

    JC, you are right about Mifflin. We will see how they fare against Exeter in a few weeks. Exeter is just as talented as Mifflin is, what they lack is coaching and a Killer instinct. It would not surprise me if they meet up twice this year. From what I see in D3 5A, and I am not disrespecting Manheim Central’s great program, Exeter is the only team that has a remote shot at beating Mifflin.

  863. mark dodgson says:

    i stand corrected Wyoming Area does not play Scranton Prep in the reg season

  864. mark dodgson says:

    @jeff h who know you think they would move in to the top 10 ? but it might have to do with D2 having a down year lot of young teams and sadly a lot of bad teams .They have a game with Scranton Prep who i believe is ranked 6th in AAA so we shall see i will bet that the 2 will meet in the D2 final but who know a rainy night a kid get hurt one teams get the fumbles that why it so much fun so we see how it plays out

  865. Wilson4Ever says:

    When St. Joe’s Prep and LaSalle College hs collide this Saturday 10/2/21 what are the predictions in the Philadelphia area as to who might come out on top? What are the odds right now and what are most people saying this year about this big matchup? Realistically how strong are these two teams this year? Let’s hear what most of people are saying about this game. Is this supposed to be one of LaSalle’s better teams in a long time and what are they saying about St. Joe’s this year? Lets hear some informed comments about this game before they kickoff. Thanks.

  866. jc says:

    This colonial/schuylkill agreement makes no sense for most of the schuylkill league schools. If Jim Thorpe, tamaqua, lehighton, panther valley and Marian want it best of luck. But north schuylkill, mahanoy area, schuylkill haven, blue mountain, Pottsville, pine groves etc. makes no sense. They would be better off combining with the heartland conference. Nobody wants or cares to travel to pen argyl, notre dame of green pond, palisades etc. Just because you face these teams in districts doesn’t mean a regular season meeting makes sense. You can’t tell me selingsgrove, danville, shamokin, ns, Pottsville, shikellamy, mifflinburg, blue mountain sounds better than what they have now. Southern, mt. Carmel, bloom, haven, minersville, mahanoy area, pine grove is better than what they have now.

  867. Jc says:

    What was the problem last week? Game was moved to Monday?

  868. David Mika says:

    From the school…The team is shut down this week.

  869. Jc says:

    Someone check into nd green pond

  870. Jc says:

    I guess they are going to let notre dame of green pond go for not postponing last weeks game for covid. Game was moved last week and now this week it’s cancelled with big game against north schuylkill next week. Something fishy at notre dame green pond

  871. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Too bad Mifflin & Malvern couldn’t have agreed on a game. Think Malvern would have challenged Mifflin, but I don’t believe they could beat them. No one wanted to see the Reading game where Mifflin could have run up 100 points on that weak team.

  872. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark Dodgson – speaking of Wyoming, I’m a little surprised they are not getting more love in the statewide polls, none I’ve seen have them in the top 10 in 3a. Obviously those polls are meaningless, but they are 4-1 with a last minute loss to a team that is a 4 time defending state champion and has now won 65 straight, so I question why they are not ranked ahead of teams like Bedford and Central Martinsburg who are undefeated but haven’t played anyone remotely close to as good as SC. Will be interesting to see how far Wyomissing falls if they lose to SC. On the western side of the state no team is on a level with Central Valley and its hard for me to see how they don’t get back to Hershey for the third season in a row.

  873. Jc says:

    Governor mifflin may very well win a state title. But they are only 1 injury or 1 covid case or 1 simple loss to a good team away from not going anywhere. My god you never won a state championship, don’t guarantee yourself anything yet. You people are the kiss of death and unless your southern Columbia or st. Joes prep you might want to curb your confidence

  874. mark dodgson says:

    @kevin x don’t be surprised if Wyoming area beats them by 3 touchdown in AAA it going to come down to Wyoming area and Scranton prep

  875. Mike in Tacony says:

    There is no coach in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh or Farrell or anywhere else that will volunteer to play a top 5 team in Pennsylvania because we have already decided that faux reputation matters more than competition for the sake of competition. No doubt Governor Mifflin has a bye week, this week.

  876. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    “Where is the best game in the Philadelphia area on Friday night?” Can I get back to you Saturday morning 🙂

    These 4 could all be interesting and competitive:

    CB West @ Pennridge
    Garnet @ Ridley (probably Garnet’s last real “challenge” until mid November)
    Unionville @ D-Town East (probably where I will be Friday, heading down to my fav venue, first time in almost 2 years)

  877. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark D

    Wyoming Area @ Lakeland looks like it should be good one for you guys this Friday. Possible D2 3A playoff match-up preview.

  878. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    I saw that TJ had an off week this week as well as I was trolling Twitter last night. Problem there is, it’s Mifflin’s HC and they are requesting a home game on Friday, so unless TJ is willing to jump on the Turnpike for a few hours, probably won’t happen. Also, Malvern Prep is off this week as well, but think the whole school, at least the athletics dept. (calendar is empty both Friday and Saturday), is off, so guessing something is going on at MP.

  879. Jeff H. says:

    @Mike in Tacony – completely agree about Mifflin and Manheim Central, I think Mifflin is a top 5 team in the state regardless of classification, I know MC has a tremendous program and great tradition, but I don’t see how they can keep up with Mifflin this year if they meet in the D3 playoffs. I would take Mifflin over any team in the WPIAL this year on a neutral field including PCC, same with any team in D3 including Central York.

  880. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I with Jeff on that one. You just applied the mercy rule to yourself.

    Are the Prep LaSalle & SC and Wyomissing Area games the only must see’s this weekend?

  881. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – no disrespect to Farrell who has a great program but that game would be no contest and Mifflin would likely mercy rule them. I’ve got a better matchup for you, TJ does not play this week so how about TJ vs. Mifflin at Altoona’s Mansion Park. I think TJ would hang around for a while in that hypothetical game but Mifflin pulls away in the 2nd half to win by 3 scores.

  882. mark dodgson says:

    @ Kevin x 31-0 at half your get a pass on that one it been the problem up here in D2 not to many completive games very week teams this year

  883. Mike in Tacony says:

    I have family who coach for Berks County programs and they all tell me that this year’s Wyomissing team is very good but not quite as strong as last year’s squad. Beating Southern Columbia on the road would be a big upset — but I would expect a competitive, well-coached, and well-played game by both sides.

    Re: people underrating Manheim Central… Manheim Central beat a Wilson team playing without its best player by a field goal. Governor Mifflin mercy ruled Wilson (and everyone else they’ve played, including Harrisburg and Cocalico). So it’s not disrespect toward the great Manheim Central program as much as it’s basic deductive logic when everyone says that they expect Governor Mifflin to roll through district 3 this year.

    Where is the best game in the Philadelphia area on Friday night?

  884. Kevin X says:

    So what do you guys think, especially you guys out west, a Farrell v. Gov. Mifflin game this weekend???

  885. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – can’t say I blame you given the circumstances, I might have done the same thing to go watch the Ryder Cup!!

    @Route54 – agree that should be a competitive game based on how tough Wyoming played SC a couple of weeks ago, the streak has to end sometime, is this the week? I would give Wyomissing a better chance if the game was at home, I see SC winning by a couple of scores.

  886. Route54 says:

    Great match up between SC and Wyomissing Area. I’m expecting this to be a very tight game. Both teams run wildcat.

  887. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark Dodgson

    I must come clean, and confess, that was me in violation. I decided to check out the Wood/St John’s College game Saturday afternoon, expecting a good, well played, competitive game between two quality teams. That did not happen. 31-0 at halftime, could have been worse, and I was not expecting a second half comeback for the ages (and I was correct). Will try for a better game this Friday. I shall man up and take any punishment you believe is justified 🙂

  888. Jeff H. says:

    @ Mike in Tacony – I think Moon matches up better with Mifflin than PR because Moon has a better defense and are better on both the defensive and offensive lines, and thus a better chance to slow down Singleton and the Mifflin offense. The problem with Moon is I don’t think their offense would put up a lot of points on Mifflin’s defense, and their defense would eventually get worn down, similar to Harrisburg in the 2nd half of their game against Mifflin. If you could put PR’s offense with Moon’s defense that team might have a chance against Mifflin! If PR wins the WPIAL and they very well might I would expect the rematch with Mifflin to be high scoring like last year, but PR won’t score enough to keep up, I could see it being something like 49-31 type game. If PR falls behind by 3 scores like they did last year in the first half the rout could be on and I’d be very surprised if PR could stage a comeback again.

    Moon has an interesting matchup with South Fayette this week who is 4-1 with their loss coming to TJ, PR plays Penn Hills who they should beat by at least 2 scores, expect PR to run the table the rest of the regular season and enter the district playoffs on a 7 game winning streak.

  889. mark dodgson says:

    @kevin x who ever did that should be monkey stomped and have his man card revoked unless his wife told him to do it lol lol lol

  890. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G & Mcd65 Frank G is right. St John’s is still playing at a good level. I don’t know what Wood’s coaches were thinking with the schedule but they should have put their tougher games first. Wood goes into the league play not scoring in their last two games. The McDonough school is not as good a team that LaSalle played in 2017 and they haven’t played Dematha since 2015 which was a really good game.

  891. Buddy says:

    A little surprised D-east lost. A lot surprised how badly Q-town beat UD.

    UD has some offense, apparently not in this game. GV looks like the team to beat.

  892. Paul Joseph Maginnis says:

    Considering how La Salle handled McDonagh and the Prep being the Prep, this weekends game should be a must see. For the first time in a few years there might be someone who could knock Prep off their pedestal. Should be a good one!!

  893. Michael says:

    Good luck stopping Mifflin on offense. The QB can beat you running, the FB and singleton. They bait you to sleep with the run game and have guys running open in the secondary. They didn’t need to pass against EA. (This all being with one of there players #25 being banged up. They will be a good test for anyone.

    Academy Park looks good, granted they haven’t played the toughest schedule.

    D-east lost against Rustin

    Strath Haven got killed against GV

    Upper Dublin also got killed by Quakertown.

  894. Tom says:

    To you folks that watched Manheim Central edge Wilson on Friday, thanks for writing us out of the District 3 playoffs already. Glad to hear that we have no chance against Mifflin or Exeter. We’ll have our hands full with our Section 2 foes in the Lanc/Leb league the next five games. I’ll be very happy if we win our section this year, then we can go to districts, where we usually do ok.

  895. FrankG says:

    @ mcd 65 St. John’s and McDonough are in two very different classes and have been for some years. I know LaSalle played Bergen Catholic for a couple of years and they may have played DeMatha, but in the last 4-5 years they seem reluctant to play first-tier teams from North Jersey or Maryland / DC..

  896. Tom says:

    I was impressed with the Wilson QB. A transfer into Wilson this year. Tough kid to tackle. Wilson just needs to get people back and not drop passes. I can’t remember the last time Manheim Central beat Wilson at home. Doesn’t get any easier for MC with Warwick this Friday. Have been on the road for three weeks in three different counties. Will be good to get home.

  897. Scott G. Hagy says:

    In my opinion had Wilson been able to use Jadyn Jones – not only their top running back, but also their best player on D, they would have beaten Manheim Central. They’ll have him when they face Hempfield & Township- who they need to beat to win Section 1 again. MC will have little or no chance should they encounter Mifflin in District’s.

  898. Kevin X says:

    Is it a violation to leave a football game at halftime on picture perfect early fall day to go home and watch golf??

  899. mcd 65 says:

    Wood got destroyed by Saint Johns Wash DC and LaSalle beat McDonough from Maryland. Both of those schools are historically very good . lasalle is the real deal for sure.

  900. Mike in Tacony says:

    Was also at North Penn vs. Pennridge. North Penn looked OK. I’m still not sold that they have enough to make it through four district 1 playoff games this year. We’ll see.

    Jeff, I know it’s still early and WPIAL-5A always has a deep field of teams, but do you have any thoughts on a potential Pine Richland vs. Governor Mifflin rematch? Would Moon match up better?

  901. Jeff H. says:

    Several marquee matchups in the WPIAL tonight to chose from, I decided to go see TJ vs. Belle Vernon and it turned out to be one of those games that lived up to all the pregame hype and then some, what a tremendous high school football game in front of a standing room only crowd of 5,000+. Belle Vernon struck first on a 50 yard TD run by star sophomore running back Quinton Martin with about a minute and a half left in the first quarter to give BV a 7-0 lead. TJ then answered with a methodical drive to tie it at 7-7 in the second quarter, then scored again with a little over a minute to go in the half but missed the extra point to take a 13-7 lead. Martin promptly returned the ensuing kickoff 88 yards tor a TD and with successful PAT BV led 14-13 at half. TJ coach Bill Cherpak said after the game the plan was to squib kick, but apparently the kicker didn’t get the message and the result was a big change in momentum going into halftime. The score was still the same when Martin went down with an apparent ankle injury late in the third quarter and did not return. TJ then scored with about 8 minutes to go on a QB draw on 4th and 7 from the 19 yard line and 2 point conversion was good to take a 21-14 lead. Things were not looking good for BV, but then it became Devin Whitlock time, as the elusive and dynamic QB took over the game, scoring on a 42 yard TD run with 4 minutes to go to tie it at 21. TJ then went 3 and out, and Belle Vernon had a chance to win the game when Whitlock put the ball right on the money to a wide open receiver with less than a minute to go but he dropped it, there wasn’t a defender within 20 yards of him and he could have walked in for a TD. Just when it looked like the game was headed to OT Whitlock weaved his way through the defense for a 40 yard TD run on 4th and 13 to give Belle Vernon the lead with 4.5 seconds left in the game to stun top ranked TJ. Great game, these are clearly the 2 best 4A teams in the WPIAL and would expect them to meet again in November at Heinz Field, hopefully Martin is not out too long. Whitlock is a fantastic high school player, if he wasn’t so diminutive he’d be a power 5 recruit, even despite his small stature I think he can play receiver and be a return guy for a MAC school, he reminds me of a smaller version of Steve Breaston who I watched 2 decades ago slice and dice through the top teams in the WPIAL.

    We also have a much clearer picture in 5A in the WPIAL as PR beat Gateway 21-7, Moon and PR are the 2 best teams in 5A and I would be very surprised if one of them doesn’t win the district title, in 6A PCC handled NA 24-7, I expect Mt Lebanon will beat NA next week to set up a showdown for first place the following week against PCC.

  902. Northwest PA says:

    Great game on the shores of Lake Erie tonight. Erie Cathedral stops SaintFrancis on 4th and goal to win 28-20. Francis had several very good players on both sides of the ball plus a big, physical line, but made a few mistakes with penalties that hurt them. Erie Cathedral has a couple starters out but played well and hung on. Big game in a week against Mcdowell. I also heard Bell Vernon beat TJ in a close game, very well done.

  903. Buddy says:

    North Penn 21 Pennridge 14. Now that’s close! Too damn close!

    Like I said before, NP defense is very suspect. Their offense was really off tonite, Then that was partially due to Pennridge defense,

    which is VERY good. Garnet Valley is killin’ everyone! Now there’s a helluva matchup looming, NP vs GV.

  904. Foleman says:

    Manheim Central 24 Wilson 21 Checked out MC to see if they could play with Mifflin in the D3 5A playoffs. They are a scrappy team but won’t be able to stay within 3 scores of Mifflin. I think they struggle with Exeter too if they meet up. Was stunned to see that MC dressed only 42 players. MC had the better QB play although MC’S Novak threw 2 bad interceptions in the 1st half, Wilson’s QB threw 3 interceptions.

  905. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    I plan on heading down to Tennent tomorrow afternoon for that one. My first live Saturday action. Saw him in the scrimmage against Imhotep.

    Pennridge @ North Penn tonight. See if Pennridge can keep it close and me out of a TBD local establishment earlier than later.

  906. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I just learned Wood has replaced the QB and is going with the Sophomore starting with the St John’s game. We’ll see if that means my previous statement get rolled back.

  907. Tom says:

    Heard that Wilson’s top runner is suspended for the Manheim Central game.

  908. bub says:

    @KEVIN X aside from delaware valley, dunmore tries to step up it seems. they usually play a couple larger schools, prep, n.pocono, western wayne, . also they have added wyoming area , and i don’t know what happened exactly but they had scheduled southern columbia and then that was not allowed and the schedule changed . not sure but i think the league disallowed it. But i agree the single A is terrible and the entire league, all 6 divisions have probably only 8 -to- 10 competitive teams.

  909. Blakely Bear says:

    @Kevin X
    Couple points on D2. Don’t know why Montrose forfeited, but even before Covid their numbers were too low to sustain a program if any injuries occur. In the early 2000’s, a merger of WVC and LL was tried, lasted 2 years, nobody liked it, attendance was down, worse than it is now, and it was scrapped. The dynamic in D2, especially in the LL, is that there are excellent programs in AA, AAA, and AAAA, but not so much in A, AAAAA, and 6A. Old Forge ha no competition in A, virtually a bye into the state playoffs. As far as DV is concerned, they step out of D2, because geographically they don’t belong in the District, and in the 7 games they play in the LL, with the exception of Scranton, they have an overwhelming advantage in boys 9-12

  910. Kevin X says:

    @ bub, et al

    Montrose just forfeited to Old Forge, so now OF has potentially 2 off weeks in a row. The rest of their schedule is mediocre at best, only real challenge is the last game against Trail. You guys have a competition and scheduling issue going on up there in D2 for what I can see from down here. I suggest reevaluating the schedules and leagues, maybe combine the WVC and LL with some more parity and open up the early part of the season to more out of district games. Really only see Del Val stepping out of the D2 comfort zone and taking on some real competition early in the season.

  911. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X thanks for that. After their loss to Malvern, its hard for me to see Wood sniffing anything in the playoffs outside the PCL 1-4 games. I expect them to be 3 and Roman 4. 1-2 get decided October 2nd.

  912. mark dodgson says:

    @ Kevin x and bud it a question lot of people around here are asking a Prep Dallas match up would have been a great game and made a lot of. séance i don’t think any of the schools reached out for a game their talking about making up the games but when ??? whole thing seems weird to be honest, now how it gong to affect play off points is another story we now have at least 5 teams who will have 9 games played, Bub as for old forge to the playoff they qualify if their record is 0-10 we now only have 2 1 a teams in D2 and they both make the playoff so what difference would it make ?

  913. bub says:

    @Kevin x i was wondering the same thing. first, dunmore it seems had no positive tests only contact tracing identified 9 players as having contact { i guess} with the lake lehman player who was covid positive. this is crazy to me kinda think if dunmore was not having a down year they would not be so willing to sit out a week. either way i think it is absolutely crazy to not play this game. also there was not a peep in the media regarding old forge looking for a replacement opponent or scranton prep . they easily could have played each other but I’m guessing that old forge would not want that game not wanting to have a loss on their record, figuring prep would win .yet although dunmore is not so good this year old forge beat dunmore and prep is regularly on dunmore’s schedule. along that line old forge does not have a tough game on their schedule, a loss to prep would not have derailed what is really a cakewalk into the single A playoffs.

  914. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    Yes, it would make sense, a lot of sense, but we are dealing with………..”The Board acted upon the following recommendations from the Strategic Planning Committee;
    Denied a request to declare that, for Competition Classification Formula purposes, students
    who change schools due to a school closing are not to be counted as a transfer students.”

    But in the positive for Wood to move back down………”On a second reading basis, it was unanimously voted to modify the Competition Classification Formula to allow a Team to drop in a competition classification from the previous cycle if the Team had 0 competition points, regardless of the number of transfers.”

    Both quotes come from the summary of the recent PIAA meeting. So if Wood doesn’t get crazy and win some later D12 playoff games, they may be in line to move back down.

  915. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X – I’m not so sure SJP is as big of a favorite as in years past, it certainly appears LaSalle has closed the gap significantly and we’ll find out how much in a few weeks

    @NW PA – TJ has a huge game this week against rival Belle Vernon, BV is very good and I think they are the only team that has a chance to challenge TJ for the WPIAL title

  916. Kevin X says:

    One other item, mainly to you D2 guys…..I did not see any scores over the weekend from Dallas, Scranton Prep or Old Forge. None of them were able (or willing) to pick up a game?? So a juicy Dallas/Scranton Prep match-up was basically left on the table?? Any reason given as to why none of these teams were able to secure a game?? Seems like there was enough lead time, and in this current environment we’re in, to be flexible and nimble is a necessity, and to play a game while you can.

  917. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I am thinking Wood will be allowed to move solely because the transfers came from a school that closed. It would make sense, but the PIAA rules are murky. I like your Covid swap suggestion also.

    @NorthwestPA we will see 6A picture a little clearer after the SJP vs LaSalle match up. I am not a believer in there offense yet, but the defense is stingy.

  918. Kevin X says:

    Tuesday morning musings……

    Any chance the powers that be can work out a non-Covid swapping of dance partners for this weekend?? Can we get Malvern Prep meet up with Gov. Mifflin and let Berks Catholic take on EA (instead of MP @ BC and Mifflin @ EA)??

    @ The Joneses

    Trying to figure out this competition formula for teams that previous moved up and the PIAA’s potential tweaking of the rules going forward. Meaning Wood may still be stuck up in 6A next cycle regardless of how they do the rest of this season. I’m hoping they can drop back to 5A where they should be, but that asinine transfer clause as it now stands tied to the success formula points may screw them. I believe a PIAA second reading passed where if a team has zero success points in the past two years, they may be able to drop back regardless of their number of transfers. Kind of confusing tho.

    @ NWPA
    No, 6A in not more challenging. St. Joe’s is above and beyond the rest by a good margin. Kind of a shame, because if you exclude SJP, 6A does then get real interesting and wide open.

  919. Northwest PA says:

    I’m fairly confident of a few things right now. GM is the best team in 5A, Tep is two. TJ is the best team in 4A. SC is the best team in 2A though Farrel is probably number two. 6A is more challenging, you could make an argument for at least 4 different teams (La Salle, Joe’s, Harrisburg, etc).

  920. Jeff H. says:

    @Neutral Observer – Ditto, big shoutout to Wyoming for a tremendous effort, and also SC for mounting the comeback in the 2nd half, I read the writeup and it sounded like a fantastic high school football game. Would have been really interesting if Wyoming would have scored on fourth and goal from the 1 yard line with a little over 3 minutes to go when they were clinging to a 1 point lead, if they scored there to go up 7 do you go for 2 and the dagger, or kick the extra point to go up 8 and still give SC a chance to come back and tie with a TD and 2 point conversion. I would have been seriously tempted to go for 2 in that scenario if I was the Wyoming coach, and if you don’t make it and SC subsequently scored a TD and made the 2 pointer and you lose by a point so be it.

    3 more wins to go to break Clairton’s state record of 66 straight set by the Tyler Boyd led teams of 2009-12, arguably the most impressive win streak in state history was CB West with 59 straight in the largest classification before Erie Prep beat them in the classic OT state final in 2000.

  921. Brandon says:

    Wilson should be good they usually have 100 kids to pick from and Manheim Central usually has 45 to 50.

  922. Mike in Tacony says:

    Wilson definitely has the talent, coaches, and pedigree to run the regular season table! My point was that Manheim Central, Hempfield, and Manheim Township have good football teams — and are probably all better than Exeter — who already beat Wilson this year.

  923. The Joneses says:

    I was following the SC game via twitter and it seemed like one the best games this weekend.

    Anyone see the Wood VS Malvern game? I was really surprised Wood couldn’t score a point. I am guessing the McDevitt transfers didn’t tilt the scales for Wood too much and this was their first 6A level test. Malvern and LaSalle played a close one a couple of weeks ago. I still seem them making a run deep next year in either 4A or 5A after completing their 6A cycle this year.

    I’m looking forward to seeing LaSalle Prep at Franklin field. Prep vs Gonzaga had a nice crowd. Prep won, but something definitely happened in the 2nd qtr after Prep put up 21 1st qtr points and only managed one more score.

  924. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Wilson has a decent shot at running the table if-as expected- their dinged up players all return to the starting lineup.

  925. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Doubt very much that Wilson will have its non-losing streak shattered as some hope. They’re getting most of their key players back from injury and when healthy, they should be able to beat most- if not all – of their remaining regular season opposition. Mifflin is in a class by itself, but Wilson is up there with the rest of District III.

  926. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony


  927. Mike in Tacony says:

    Kevin, here you go:

  928. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    Do you have a link or name of the YT channel for that Harrisburg/Mifflin game?? Was it the full game or just highlights??

  929. Neutral Observer says:

    Huge shout out to Wyoming Area for giving Southern Columbia a heck of a game!

  930. Jeff H. says:

    @Mike in Tacony – I have seen all the top WPIAL 5a teams in person and the only one that has a remote chance of competing against Mifflin is Moon, they have an excellent defense and are very good in the trenches on both sides. With that being said I would still make Mifflin at least a 2 TD favorite in that game, and if any other team like Gateway or Pine Richland wins the WPIAL Mifflin will roll. Right now the top 3 in the WPIAL are Moon, Gateway and PR, those 2 play next week so that will tell us a little more about the pecking order. I saw Penn Trafford lose to Peters Township last night and Penn is nowhere near as good as I thought they were at the beginning of the season. Hard to see Mifflin not making it to Hershey this year, appears the only thing that can stop them is significant injuries or Covid.

  931. Mike in Tacony says:

    Traveled west to Collegeville for an entertaining game between Manheim Central & Perkiomen Valley. Manheim came back late to win 43-40 and is now 4-0. Considering their pedigree, Manheim is definitely a team-to-watch in 5A.

    Speaking of 5A, I watched a bit of Governor Mifflin vs. Harrisburg on YouTube… dear god. Even against 8 in the box, that Governor Mifflin offense simply bludgeons teams. Harrisburg was covering their twins wide with one defensive back and Mifflin STILL ran the ball lol. Give that Singleton kid a crack and he’s gone. Can’t wait to see him in the blue & white next year. Mifflin really does look to be on a collision course with Imhotep, no disrespect intended to the WPIAL winner or ECP.

    @Foleman, I saw that Exeter score. Hempfield has a decent team. Wouldn’t shock me if Wilson West Lawn lost their million-year, non-losing season streak this year. They still have Manheim Central, Hempfield, and Manheim Township on the slate… which might set them up as 5-5 heading into a game vs. the #1 seed in the 6A playoffs.

  932. Foleman says:

    Berks Catholic 47-Pope John Paul 40 In a highly entertaining game, BC roared out to 34- 7 lead in the 1st half, PJP scored with few minutes left in the half to make it 34-14, in the 2nd half, PJP caught fire and tied it at 34-34 BC scores then PJP scores again but a penalty cost them an extra point 41-40BC BC scores again to make it 47-40 BC stops PJP on their final drive. Basketball on grass vs the Wing-T was a lot of fun to watch. Also nice to see a big crowd out on a Friday night. Wasn’t surprised to see that Exeter lost to Hempfield, Exeter has more talent than most teams but always comes up small vs good teams every year.

  933. Helen Ann Long says:

    Can you believe those Southern Tigers. Down 17 late in the game and they come back and win. Hershey here they come. Congrats to Wyoming Area on a great game.

  934. bub says:

    so i did not see where there was any thing in the news concerning prep, or old forge looking for a replacement game. in previous weeks when games were cancelled there were stories daily in the scranton times concerning the hunt for replacement opponents for riverside i believe was most recent. something seems wrong here. Kevin asks a good question concerning lake lehman.

  935. mark dodgson says:

    kevin x that game is canceled according to the local paper

  936. Kevin X says:

    Now they’re getting creative……. “convergence of health issues”

    Mmmmm….an 0-3 Red Lion cancelled on 3-0 and state 6A runner-up Central York. Hey Scranton Prep, got a nice challenge for ya!!!!

  937. Kevin X says:

    So if the issue is at Lake-Lehman (Dunmore’s opponent last week), wouldn’t LL’s game against Dallas be cancelled this weekend as well?? If it already is (I haven’t seen anything about it being cancelled), a pretty good match-up would be Prep and Dallas. Better IMO than Prep/OF.

  938. bub says:

    @Mark Dodgson great minds think alike!

  939. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Think it’s just one of those years, a rare down year for Dunmore, and Prep being pretty loaded. In a weird way, not a big issue that I see not playing if the game has a real good a potential to be 42-0 at halftime. Kind of a Seinfeld-esque bizarro like world where last year you had teams down by us not playing, or at best playing a half of a season, while most of the rest of the state basically started 2 or 3 weeks later than usual. Now the rest of the state is getting hit with cancellations, and Districts 1 and 12 for most part are playing with minimal interruptions.

    @ bub

    Yeah, kind of makes sense, Prep/OF. Maybe they are already looking at it and just waiting to see if a more suitable opponent becomes available for either school (I think Prep wins that game fairly easily) before committing and announcing. What I’d love to see, is Prep meet up with Imhotep who have a bye this week, guessing it was built into their schedule between their non league and league games (or they just couldn’t find another non league game) and let them go at it. Love to see if Prep’s London Montgomery would even have a 100 yards rushing against an actual defense.

  940. Neutral Observer says:

    RE COVID cancellations:

    I’m glad the PIAA did not pass bright line rules. I thought I read somewhere that Dunmore didn’t have any positive tests themselves, but were caught up in contact tracing from Lake-Lehman (their opponent last week). That’s not really anything that Dunmore did wrong; just bad luck as to who their prior opponent was. In a case like that, I’d rather see a “No Contest” than have Dunmore take a loss.

    But it’s probably not really feasible to have District 2 (or the LIAA) do an immediate investigation into every cancellation to see who is at fault (if anyone). I’d rather see “No Contest” as the default result, which is only changed into a “Loss” if there is clear evidence of something fishy going on (as determined by the District or local conference).

  941. mark dodgson says:

    like the way you think bub

  942. Jeff H. says:

    @Frank G – I hear you about Dunmore, I’m in Western Pa so far removed, but I was always under the same impression as you, never heard anything disparaging about their program and typically had solid teams and some years went on deep playoff runs.

  943. bub says:

    in regards to the covid cancellations.Why not just give dunmore and northwest a loss and have old forge play prep? kinda seems ez enough.

  944. FrankG says:

    @ Jeff H and Kevin X Looks like you’re both right. Still, I wonder if that can really be the case with Dunmore. Maybe, but I always thought of them as a pretty confident and ambitious program.

  945. Jeff H. says:

    @Frank G – the PIAA and many others disagree with you on teams using Covid as an excuse to duck a superior opponent, per an article today in the Tribune Review Online

    The PIAA is worried teams may be using covid-19 issues as a way to avoid an unfavorable opponent, so the board on Wednesday debated at length a policy that would’ve made regular season cancellations forfeits.

    Ultimately, the board voted against the policy change and agreed to instead provide the information only as “guidance” for the PIAA’s 12 district committees, including the WPIAL. But the PIAA remained skeptical about the motivation behind some postponements and cancellations already this fall.

    “Board members were concerned hearing from their constituents and membership that they think ‘School A’ may be ducking somebody,” PIAA executive director Bob Lombardi said. “Or they have a squad of 45 (players) and eight are out. … That’s some of the anecdotal information that was given to the board, so they felt we should reduce this to writing.”

    The proposal included three directives:

    1. In the event a regular season contest is postponed for whatever reason, including covid-19 issues, all attempts must be made to reschedule that contest during the regular season.

    2. If the contest cannot be rescheduled, the failure of a team to participate in a scheduled contest shall constitute an automatic forfeit, regardless of the reason thereof, unless the school not participating convinces the district committee that it made reasonable efforts to avoid an outbreak and that its failure to participate was unavoidable, in which event the district committee may treat the matter as if the contest had not been scheduled (no contest).

    3. If a school has sufficient personnel who are not subject to quarantine to participate in a contest but chooses not to play, that school will forfeit the contest.

    The board discussed the policy for 30 minutes, ending with a rare roll call vote.

    “What some people are doing, at least anecdotally … you canceled the game but still are holding practice,” Lombardi said. “That seems to fly in the face of canceling the game.”

    The PIAA noted that current rules already consider canceling or rescheduling a contest for competitive reasons to be unsportsmanlike behavior. Additionally, under longstanding regulations, the failure of any team to compete in a scheduled game counts as an automatic forfeit, but district committees have relaxed that rule during the pandemic.

    Since the proposal became only guidance, district committees may continue that approach.

    “Under our rules and regulations, a cancellation for any reason is a forfeiture,” Lombardi said. “We’ve had that on the books since probably the Eisenhower administration.”

    The board considered a motion to implement the new policy retroactive to Aug. 19, but that vote failed 17-9. Four board members connected to the WPIAL were among the 17 in opposition. The board then voted unanimously to provide the language of the policy to schools as guidance.

    “They want to use that as guidance,” Lombardi said, “so that people aren’t playing loose and fast.”

    Chris Harlan is a Tribune-Review Staff Writer. You can contact Chris by email at or via Twitter .

  946. Jeff H. says:

    @Mike in Tacony – I was at the Harrisburg win over PR and trust me, they were impressive, especially in the 2nd half. I wouldn’t read too much into PR being 0-3, they should have and would have won all 3 of those games with their prior coaching staff, they were up 3 TD’s on PCC in the first half last week and had 35 at half, but didn’t score a point in the 2nd half. Their coaching staff is very small in numbers and has virtually no experience and has thus far shown zero ability to make any in game adjustments. I agree with you Mifflin is a sizable favorite, and if they score 40+ like they do every game they will win going away, that’s why I said Harrisburg has to keep the ball away from their offense to keep it close, and with a big offensive line and a power running game they could conceivably control the clock, get a couple of turnovers or big plays on special teams, and who knows, sometimes crazy things happen in HS football.

  947. mark dodgson says:

    i hate to say this but Kevin x might be right .the comment i heard was better to be safe than sorry and we get beat 70-0 anyway !!! i hate to think that Dunmore would think that way but it makes you wonder since a parent told me they have no positive tests ???

  948. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    “Are there any common protocols for deciding when games need to be cancelled / postponed?” Good question, wondering the same thing myself. It doesn’t appear to be, but I would think there has to be something out there. Even if there is, it doesn’t mean a school couldn’t do it’s own thing, out of well, an abundance of caution, etc.

    As far as ducking an opponent, below is a Tweet that I came across tonight from a respected sports reporter in the western part of the state who was monitoring today’s PIAA meeting:

    “Bob Lombardi says that teams using COVID-19 and other reasons as an excuse to cancel games to avoid tough teams has happened enough this year that the guidance from the board today was necessary.”

    Looks like I’m not the only one of that opinion…….

  949. Mike in Tacony says:

    Governor Mifflin hasn’t scored under 40 points in two years. That includes against the 5A state champ, Pine Richland, in the semi-finals last year. I just don’t know if Harrisburg can put up enough points to hang with them. I’m hoping for a competitive game but Mifflin is a sizable favorite, IMO. The August, Harrisburg win over P-R doesn’t seem as impressive now after P-R’s 0-3 start.

  950. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X

    I would be surprised if schools are cancelling because they’re ducking an opponent. The more disruptions, especially just a day or two before a game, the harder it is for teams to stay on track for the season. As for Dunmore and Scranton Prep, from my time in that area I imagine Dunmore players and fans probably look forward more to the SP game than they do to most others.

    Are there any common protocols for deciding when games need to be cancelled / postponed? My impression is that a lot more thinking and planning went into last year’s approach to Covid. Maybe this year there was more wishful thinking.

  951. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – wow, that’s a bigtime matchup between Harrisburg and Mifflin, I give Hburg coach Everett a lot of credit for being willing to take on any and all comers, especially on such short notice. I do think this game will be close for awhile but ultimately they won’t be able to contain Singleton all game and expect Mifflin will win by a couple of scores. Harrisburg has a chance if they can control the clock and go on sustained drives with their bruising fullback Makhi Hopkins, I said after I watched him punish PR in the opener at the Wolvarena he was a load to tackle and no team has really slowed him down yet, create some turnovers on defense and pound the ball behind their huge offensive line and keep the ball away from Mifflin’s offense.

    @mcd 65 – agree Upper Dublin has had some solid teams in recent years and I do think they will give NP a good game on Friday, at least for awhile, certainly appears UD is the favorite to win 5A in DI

  952. bub says:

    @Frank G. I guess we simply disagree. i do not believe kids are belonging to the school where they live.We are discussing the format that high schools compete under. it is perfectly fair and good that people can choose where their children are educated. but please do not pretend that i was saying that they should be limited in their choice of school. i say that the format is unfair because of the ability to use financial help to make possible for anyone to become a part of the school especially for athletics. if i am supposed to believe in the righteous behavior of the athletic department, and or the good intentions of the school directors then you lose me. many people have good intentions but many do not.

  953. Kevin X says:

    Some of you guys have been going back and forth with regards to Scranton Prep, finding it interesting that their game this week against Dunmore has been cancelled by Dunmore “out of an abundance of caution.” Starting to think a some of these schools are really stretching the Covid excuse to get out of games that more than likely they were going to get an old fashion butt whooping. So do these games (assuming they are not made up before the playoffs) in the point systems count as a no contest or forfeit loss/win?? If the former, maybe Dunmore should consider changing their nickname from the Bucks to the Ducks.

  954. Kevin X says:

    @ ScottyB

    Looking ahead to the following Friday maybe the time to visit PV. S-F/PV one of the best rivalry games in the area (at least for the ones I’ve been to, DTE/DTW and SJP/LaS be two others).

    Yeah, I didn’t get that PV fake punt on their own 20 early 4th qtr. Turning point right there IMO. Got to admit, #7 from PV was fun to watch, Mr. Everything. Field goal kicker to boot (pun intended).

    @ Foleman

    Saw that. Intriguing game, but kind out of travel area for a regular season game, with the closer choices available. Also, as far as Mifflin goes, and this would be an issue with SF/PV from above, I was looking at heading down to Delco next Friday for Mifflin and EA. Same deal as with Ivey, chance to see Singleton live before he heads up to PSU. Don’t know how competitive of a game that will be, but seems like Inter-ACs hang in there.

  955. The Joneses says:

    @MCD65 I think it would have been hard to do a 5:00 pm and 8:30 pm game on a Friday night in the city. Unsure if UPenn has a bye week this weekend. A double header would have been nice, but a logistical problem.

  956. Paul from Philly says:


    First to get into these schools you need to take the entrance exam. And don’t boo woo that. La Salle had two great basketball prospects a few years ago that passed the exam but couldn’t handle the academics. They transferred to Plymouth Whitemarsh and voila, a state title to PW.
    Secondly, when dealing with ALL the handouts La salle gives (academic, athletic, hardships) where would the money come from? Aside from academic and athletic scholarships there are a lot of 1 parent homes that get a lot of aid. They are mercy driven. You need to get your money somewhere to keep the lights on.

  957. FrankG says:

    @ bub, You seem to assume that kids who live in Dunmore, Carbondale, etc. belong to the public school district the illre and that if they go to Scranton Prep they are being something akin to stolen or illicitly lured. The parents of those kids might say they pay taxes like everyone else to support the local public school and they pay at least some tuition to send their kids to Scranton Prep where, if they are athletes, they can play against kids whose parents pay no tuition to send them to the public school.

    You also seem to think the nerdy kid who’s good at academics but whose parents can’t afford to pay the full tuition at a school like SJP gets little or no offer of financial aid. Do you think for a second SJP could stay in business if they were giving full tuition waivers to football players and not giving substantial financial support to the families of those nerds, some of whom will certainly be the children or the nephews or the neighbors of SJP grads. A guy I went to the Prep with, Nick Howley, gave $5 million to the school last year. He was a football player in high school but the great bulk of the money is going to the families of students who do not play football or basketball or …. There is a fund specific to the football program but it isn’t remotely as large as the general student aid fund.

    As for foreign students coming to N-G to play girls basketball, it reminds me of some coach’s claim that SJP had football players from four states, which of course was not true. Maybe N-G has one basketball player who came to Philly from another country–probably with her family–but I can’t believe the roster has more than one such girl.

    Bottom line: the fact that private schools do not have geographic boundaries is a definite advantage. Public schools attended by students from one town or one part of a city have their own advantages. It’s perfectly legitimate to argue the private schools’ advantage is much larger. Whether it’s better for all the schools to be competing against each other or to divide them into public and private is an endless debate. Different states have made different decisions. Some may think they want to go the New Jersey route, but they should first consider what’s happened in Jersey.

  958. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, Harrisburg just signed up to play Governor Mifflin this Friday at Mifflin, another great game to choose from. Central Dauphin had to cancel it’s game with Hburg due to Covid. Mifflin was scheduled to play Cedar Crest who probably opted out, they lost 45-0 to Carlisle last week. Hburg ranked #9 in 6A Governor Mifflin #1 in 5A This game could decide who the king of the Hill is in District 3 regardless of class.

  959. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    Both should be great games but I love the atmosphere at Thomas J Keenan stadium and District ones best student section (as voted before)

    PV is a horrible 2nd half against Coatesville from a strong 3-0 start.

    Have fun whichever you choose!

  960. bub says:

    @FrankG , i used football players because this is a football forum.I don’t feel any better if it is basketball, soccer,tennis,etc.,. as far as reputation being damaged how many schools have audits in regard to what claims they post on their websites? i have seen west catholic, and neuman goretti football and basketball teams with an unusual abundance of talent, that i bet they would not have without the financial aid they provide. i think neuman goretti had female basketball players from outside of the USA. if they can afford to provide all this financial aid then they can afford to reduce the tuition in the first place and maybe the nerdy child without athletic skills who is maybe brilliant in math or science but not from a wealthy home could attend. school is supposed to be primarily for learning not can a school like montrose,carbondale, susquehanna, or even old forge or dunmore who have better programs compete when they have players only from the boundaries of their town?i know for a fact that many of these schools have lost players from their town to scranton prep.every school in the area has lost players to scranton is impossible to compete fairly.

  961. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, help me decide between two games for this Friday night:

    Manheim Central @ Perk Valley, or Township @ Spring-Ford?? Amish country invades the heart of PAC land.

    Perk is closer, but I did see Perk two weeks ago in Coatesville (great game btw).

    Further travels to Royersford, but I would like to see Anthony Ivey once in person before he heads up to Happy Valley next year.

    Post game @ the Trappe Tavern is basically a push.

  962. FrankG says:

    @ bub What private schools would argue is that their full tuition costs come close to the per-student cost of providing what the school offers each student. Some families can afford the tuition, almost always with some sacrifice involved. What would be gained by reducing the tuition cost if the schools can offer enough financial aid to help families who can’t afford the full tuition to enrol their child? And think of the reputational damage a school would suffer if it publicly advertised a figure, e.g.54% that was shown to be quite wrong.

    You seem to have the idea that most students who get financial aid are football players. Any evidence of that for any school? Don’t you think that if that were true the school would get lots and lots of blowback from families struggling to pay the tuition but not getting any financial aid?

  963. bub says:

    with all due respect ,the website promotes the school.probably not to be relied on as gospel./ schools, businesses have been known to present a rosy picture .if 54%of students get financial aid why doesn’t the school reduce the cost to attend in the first place so more people could afford it. Maybe they keep it high so that they can have better control as to who can attend by picking the “select” “students”who attend via the football, er i mean financial aid.

  964. David Mika says:

    mcd 65…We’re covering both games.

  965. mcd 65 says:

    St Joe Prep/ Gonzaga at Franklin Field Friday night , and Wood /Malvern Prep at Franklin Field saturday afternoon. This should have been a double header instead of splitting up the games. Parking is always a huge issue.

  966. FrankG says:

    @bub Just checked the SJP website and noted that 54% of the students get some financial aid. Obviously, I can’t comment on your family member’s situation and I don’t know the Scranton situation well, though I did spend three years there in the 70s and still keep in touch with friends there. My sense is that Scranton Prep isn’t just for rich kids, but–as is the case with private schools everywhere–many graduates want to send their own children there and are prepared to make some financial sacrifices to do it.

    I can say with some knowledge of SJP that it’s not as if lots of scholarship / tuition assistance money is given to athletes but not to other students. The 54% figure makes that pretty clear, and I know the great majority of that 54% get far more than the 5% off you say your relative was offered by Scranton Prep. On the other hand, nearly all those who get financial assistance also pay some tuition and pay for things that are free at public schools–like books, transportation, etc. Some families of football players–starters–pay full tuition. So I guess the question is whether having players whose families pay only, say, $1,000 or $5,000 a year in tuition gives schools an unfair advantage over schools whose students don’t have to pay a penny. You can guess how I answer that question. What is a clear advantage is that private schools don’t have geographical boundaries. How much of an advantage that is varies in relation of how great the difference in geographic catchment areas is. SJP’s advantage would seem to be bigger than SP’s since SJP can draw from a huge population living within a 20-25 mile radius of the school. But, as I wrote in an earlier post, the local public school with the practice field on site, with students all living close by, and with no worries about students having to leave for academic reasons has its own advantages.

  967. #Buzz says:


    How did you hear they recruit ? Last time I checked all the top Philadelphia Lil League teams have coaches on Imhotep staff. Parents trust these coaches with there kids bcuz they grew up with them. Also, Imhotep is the type school they rarely have to recruit anymore. Every kid in the city hears about Imhotep BASKETBALL AND FOOTBALL programs around the city, if not the state. Plus Imhotep is free to attend (PUBLIC SCHOOL) unlike Catholic schools where u have to get scholarships. If kids that have talent but not the financial backing as MOST kids don’t in Philadelphia but want exposer to compete with the best you wouldn’t choose Imhotep ? But to answer your questions on how they don’t score, this Imhotep team is very young. Many think there veterans cuz of the size but most of Imhotep skills and QB are sophomores and I think one or 2 juniors. This team is good in the trenches mostly being Seniors on both sides. But the actual talent are the 2024 class and 2025 class of Imhotep. There jus young give them a year and the offense will dominate again.

  968. bub says:

    thanks to frank g.and neutral observer for the response. i am going to disagree with the concept o these schools being so generous. over the years scranton prep is known as the school where all the who’s who in the scranton area go. i live in the area and i am older so i have known many who have attended prep. i do not recall many disadvantaged kids attending prep.i have a family member who finished 2nd in the admittance exam and was only awarded a 500 dollar grant towards a10,000. per year tuition. and the family tried for financial help and were denied. and i guarantee they could have used the financial help. of course the student was not a gifted athlete. my point is that i believe they do help students who are athletes that can benefit the sports teams. i believe this gives them an unfair advantage over the competition . if the said students benefit that is great, but it is not fair to their competition.

  969. Paul from Philly says:

    October 2 at Franklin Field. St. Joe/La Salle. Prep is the Prep. La Salle showing signs of catching up to them. Should be a good one! Get your popcorn!!!

  970. FridayKnightLights says:


    2016 was definitely a great team to watch. Thought they outplayed Prep for large portions of the semifinal. That Swift kid turned out to be a half decent player lol. This year’s version of NP could rival or even pass the offense of ’16. I hope they can find a way to put the D together. The secondary should improve with Edwards at safety who has at least one D1 offer and two young corners starting for the first time this year. They also put a kid in at LB, Cody I think, who has looked really solid. I don’t believe he started the Souderton game but I could be wrong. Also hoping they get the Dawes kid back. He was really solid last year as a freshman. I remember in ’11 the defense started off terribly and by years end they held LA Salle to 14 in the semifinals. Here’s to hoping.

  971. mark dodgson says:

    pulse do the bigger schools want to play southern ? their no up side it going to cost them points on their seeding or district as most use a point system based on the size of the schools you play so it no points and everyone say big deal you beat a AA school

  972. Buddy says:


    Yea, NP should go unscathed in regular season. D1 playoffs a little tougher, the usual suspects ( Garnet Valley, Coatesville, etc).

    Probably be #1 seed, so everyone comes to their house. After D1 playoffs, most likely doomed.


    By the end of season, offense should be clicking very well. Defense is suspect, especially against the pass. Run defense doesn’t look that stellar either.

    I think I’m still spoiled from the 2016 season. Even though they lost to SJP in the semis ( helluva game), they wound up 2nd in the state.

  973. Neutral Observer says:

    @ bub

    Per Scranton Prep’s own website: “In a given school year, Scranton Prep gives over $1.5 million in aid to students, approximately 40% of the students attending Prep receive grants in aid. The average grant is over $5,000.”

    I work with someone whose oldest son went/played there a few years ago. The general, vague sentiment that I hear from her (no hard evidence) is that the SCHOOL really does NOT want to be known as a “football school” and would much rather focus on “preppier” sports (i.e. golf, tennis, etc.) that fit the “fancy prep school” image more. I think the football team is successful in spite of the school, rather than because of it. So I really doubt that Scranton Prep has any recruited football players, but who knows about the golf or tennis teams?

    In terms of non-Catholic students at Catholic schools, I think a lot of the local public school districts just don’t have great reputations. The Scranton newspaper does a “report card” for all of the schools each year and a lot of the districts get failing/bad grades in terms of SAT scores, reading proficiency levels, graduation rates and other things like that.

  974. FridayKnightLights says:


    Seen NP a few times now. They are very talented but it will still come down to the defense. O line has good size with the center at 230, guards at 260 and 277, and tackles each at 300. Carroll is a very nice receiver and is producing every week. At 6’3″ and with some speed he can cause issues including the return game where he has broken a few already. They have a couple of underclassmen receivers over 6 ft as well that have potential. Their development would be huge. Zeltt has flashed a strong arm and Eaton is an absolute monster but needs to keep the ball off the ground. Upper Dublin might offer a test as well as Pennridge with their physicality. NP should have the skill and depth to run the table though. If they can figure the D out they might, MIGHT just have the athletes to compete with the catholics.

    Garnet Valley looks like a machine right now. Definitely a team to watch. From what I’ve heard they have added a passing game to a strong running game. A program that deserves a lot of respect and credit.

    I would say those are likely your top 2 in D1 but there’s a lot of football left to play. On a side note, do you have any idea what the injury is to Dave Dawes at NP is? 235 lb soph that played a ton as a freshmen on the D line and was slated to start at MLB and FB this year but hasn’t played due to injury. I think he’s been in a sling. Could be the key to the defense and definitely a key player they have been without.

  975. Jc says:

    I wouldn’t mind southern moving up but If they did just because you want to penalize them because there good then I’d say do it, but only against public schools because then I would say you have to penalize all the private and catholic schools for not having boundaries and being able to recruit. Even Steven I’d say if your being forced up it’s only right to force the privates out. Bring on aliquippa and other public schools and let the Imhoteps and st Joes and lasalle play bishop sycamore.

  976. George says:

    I’ve also heard stories about the way they recruit, some of which is ridiculous.

    They might play Governor Milfflin and will play well against them but based on talent they should win by 21.*** sorry some typos

  977. George says:

    Just because SC plays 3A teams and 4a teams doesn’t mean anything. The teams they play aren’t very good and they win. As a coach you should want to be challenged and not have every game over by the 3rd quarter.

    As for Imhotep I hated watching them against LaSalle, I’m pretty sure the coaches have no idea how to scheme, make adjustments, and excute. They have been the 2-3rd best team in pa when it comes to talent but coaching has held them back.

    Someone that has watched explain to me why Imhotep can’t score 28 points against anyone in the state. Seems a little bit of political. I’ve also heard stories about the way they recruit, so of which is ridiculous. They might me Governor Milfflin and will play well against them but Based on talent they should win by 21.

    Just my 2 cents

  978. mcd 65 says:

    @ Buddy, North Penn is loaded as you know and have an interesting matchup this week against Upper Dublin. UD has had some nice teams lately. This could be a good game . It was a shame that UD couldnt compete for states last year due to the Virus . North Penn should run the table in District 1 regular season imo.

  979. FrankG says:

    @ bub Catholic schools have many students, not just athletes, who are not Catholic. When I went to SJP several decades ago every student in the school came from a Catholic family. Same was true for Roman, West Catholic, etc. But the world changed. I had two brothers who also went to SJP and we were fairly typical. You can figure out how many families of three or more boys there are who go to the same high school–or just count the number of families with three children let alone three boys! Plus, lots of non-Catholic families who never would have considered sending their son (or daughter) to a Catholic school began doing just that. I understand that there have been Mormon students at SJP and that the majority of the students at West Catholic are not Catholic. That’s partly a reflection of the fact that some Catholic schools have made it part of their mission to serve disadvantaged families and students. So the schools remain Catholic in this way or that, e.g. all the students at SJP take religion courses, participate in religious retreats, etc. but there is no longer an assumption–there can’t be if they want to stay open–that the families of the students are all Catholic let alone are “practicing” Catholics.

    I can’t speak for all Catholic schools, but I can say that SJP and LaSalle give out academic scholarships–partial or full tuition waivers for students with the best scores on the admission tests. Most of the students who qualify for full- or partial-tuition waivers, based on family income, are not athletes, though of course some are. Do the schools especially encourage promising athletes to attend? Yes they do, but just being a promising athlete does not mean you get a full-tuition waiver. The families of many of SJP’s starting football players pay full tuition: over $20K plus fees for books, activities, etc. Nobody pretends you have to be an academic whiz to attend SJP, but you do have to be capable of a fairly demanding academic challenge and you have to do the academic work. Every year that I know of the Prep has seen promising athletes leave because they had trouble academically.

    The fact that the Prep can recruit players–and other students–from all over the Delaware Valley is a definite advantage–just as it’s an advantage for Scranton Prep that they can recruit from Pittston to Tunkhannock, but there are obvious advantages to having your own practice and game field on campus, to having student-athletes who all live no more than a five or ten minute ride away, and to being able to have players who are at every point on the academic spectrum.

  980. Buddy says:

    @ kevin

    I remember that hoops game. Kennedy was favored I believe, but that was an fantastic game! Being a D1 fan, a bit dissapointing.

    But I believe the rules for football are different, Aliquppa not withstanding.

  981. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…I have a page on my site I will be updating throughout the week….

  982. Kevin X says:

    Well here we go, cancellations are coming in fast and furious as I expected, but I was expecting more towards the end of the month and the beginning of Oct. But what the Hell is going on up in D10?? They are getting hammered with cancellations since almost the start of the season. D2, D3, and D11 are having their fair share recently as well.


    No, no limit. Aliquippa a “A” school by enrollment figures are being forced to pay up to “4A” (and oh, btw, a public boundary school competing nicely with the bigger boys).

    But the Hold My Beer award tho goes to Kennedy Catholic Boys Hoops who volunteered (yes, volunteered) to play up from their “A” enrollment classification to “6A” a few years ago. And also btw, won a state title that year (in a great game over Pennridge).

  983. Buddy says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but you can only play up 2 classes ( actually, I thought it was only one), but apparently it’s 2 classes.

    PIAA rule. So SC couldn’t play class 5A even if they wanted. I do believe they play a 3A and 4A every year.

    BTW, any D1 fans here? Let’s hear some chatter!

  984. mcd 65 says:

    I want to give a shout out to an under the radar player that has been a force for the past two years in the PCL, John Pergine from Archbishop Wood. He is a LB 5 11, 215 and incredible ball instincts. I hope he is recognized for his performance and not overlooked. He does have at one D-1 offer ,but limited by his size. If you get the opportunity watch # 44 play. He is really something to observe. Last game 2 int,2 blocked punts , a safety and about 8 tackles . He played at McDevitt last year and had similar performances. Hard nosed guy for sure.

  985. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jeff H, totally agree,nobody is being derogatory towards SC. I know I for one has stated a few times that They. have a great program and coaches.The Garcia brothers have been beasts . I guess if I were a SC resident I would be pumping out my chest about what a great success my home town team has been and is . Moving up in class would be nerve racking to many I suppose, or they would have already done so a couple of years ago. Some like challenges and some are satisfied with the status quo.

  986. bub says:

    i guess you can’t ask an honest question here. let me try a different way. do catholic schools have students that are there to be atheletes first and foremost.

  987. bub says:

    i know that private schools seem to have athletic students,whereas i wonder how many skilled art students are attending via scholarship or waiver/sponsor programs. i ask this because i have been to catholic high school games and a number of the players are not catholic. how does this work?

  988. Jeff H. says:

    @Mark Dodgson – comparing apples and oranges, if I remember correctly most of the North Dakota State championship games were pretty competitive and not blowouts like SC. Also, I said nothing about them playing up to 6A, I would not advocate them playing in 6A under any circumstance, but it would be fascinating to see them play a state championship caliber 4A or 5A team like TJ in 2019 or Governor Mifflin the last couple of years. My point is if you are mercy ruling virtually every opponent including the state championship games maybe it’s time to consider playing up a class or 2, SC’s program is so good they would still win plenty of titles at a higher class.

  989. Jeff H. says:

    @Helen Ann Long – I have never disparaged the SC program, they have one of the best programs and coaching staffs in the state and I’ve said so numerous times, so just stop it with the hate crap. As a neutral observer who wouldn’t want to see SC take on some of the power teams in larger classifications. For example if they would have played TJ in 2019 in the state final instead of destroying Wilmington that would have been a tremendous game and much better for high school football overall than to have another mercy rule victory in Hershey. How do you know other schools in 2A don’t work as hard as SC does, do you go to their off season workouts? That’s pretty arrogant and condescending to make a statement like that. I have noticed over the years the SC faithful get pretty defensive when anyone questions why they don’t play up to face tougher competition, it has absolutely nothing to do with “hating” SC and everything to do with seeing more competitive games on the state level, at least as far as I’m concerned.

  990. mark dodgson says:

    ok north Dakota state has won the national championship at division 2 collage football in 2011 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 so now should they play Ohio state, Alabama, Clemson and USC because their winning make as much since as southern playing 6 a teams

  991. mark dodgson says:

    @ Jeff not sure i an in my right mind but yes it was sarcasm

  992. The Joneses says:

    WAIT WAIT .. a round of applause for Helen…

    @Sausmann you’re funny. I was at the game. Milton is a good team. Prep missed some opportunities. You say they were exposed. Don’t you think that’s why Prep and every other school puts tough non-league games on their schedule to see where they are and what they need to work on. I thought it was simple. The difference is Prep does it to see what they need to fix to win a state chip, everyone else does it to see if they can beat Prep.

    @Michael you are so right about Imotep and offense. It’s always lacking offense. Play calling unimaginative. After a while the defense wears out if the offense can’t give them real time off the field.

    LaSalle Prep at Franklin Field is about to get top billing as usual, but this year could have higher hype than that 2015 year.

  993. FrankG says:

    @bub, All private schools give scholarships. None, as far as I know, pay students to play a sport.

  994. bub says:

    Does scranton prep give scholarships?do they allow players to be sponsored? i heard a few years back that a very good player was going there via a sponsor program, which sounds suspiciously like pay to play. prep is a very expensive school and many cannot afford to go there.

  995. Michael says:

    Imhotep really needs to figure out there offense. It felt when they needed a score, they would go back to the northwest Raiders offense. They have enough players to find playmakers on offense, however the coaches down 5 wanted to run wildcat. That simply doesn’t work against better teams. Imhotep has the guys, to play offense and defense.. not both. They are young and that will help. The coaches need to be better and find an identity.

    LaSalle was ok. Brown had 100 yards but 50-60 of them yards came on the last drive when Imhotep had given up.

  996. #Buzz says:

    Congratz To Lasalle On The Major Game Winning Drive To Win. Great game full of talent that linebacker is something else his presence was dominate from start to finish. Imhotep really needs to work on there offense. They consistently rely on there defense to put them in good field position and move the ball. They have to clean it up before playoffs or they are gonna be exposed. But great game that was Lasalle vs Imhotep
    2-1 not bad for non conference bouts with PCC DEMATHA LASALLE excited to see what happens in playoffs 4 5A.

  997. Kevin X says:

    “Northeast such a cool site for football games!!!”

    Did they renovate, or better yet, do a complete overhaul of the facility since I was there in 2016??

    My Lord, that was the worse place I’ve been to to see a game between then and now, hands down. And I’m lucky I didn’t need to use the restrooms based on the comments of those who were with me who did. What am I missing???

  998. FrankG says:

    @sausmannn You write as if the Prep was forced to play Milton against their will. For the last quarter of a century they’ve played the toughest non-league, out-of-state schedule of any team in PA.. As for the sophomore QB who left the game in the first hand, he returned and played well in the second half.

  999. sausmann9 says:

    What a great game!!! Milton GA comes up here on the road and puts a beating on St Joes Prep. SJP quarterback running for his life until Milton sent him to the benches in first half. This score could have been worse but a win is a win. GA public schools simply own Da prep, lmao but when you play schools that are close to your level, sometimes you get exposed!

    Northeast such a cool site for football games!!!

  1000. Foleman says:

    Springside Chestnut Hill 32 Pope John Paul 27 SCH pulls out the win with 30 seconds left in a fantastic HS game. Didn’t know QB Aidan Dooley transferred into SCH from Judge, He might be a grad transfer, he’s a stud, having a couple of Div 1 receivers to throw to also helps

  1001. Foleman says:

    S. Columbia has the best coaching staff in the state hands down. I’ve seen them play many times and they run the wing T to perfection and their fundamentals are flawless. They will play a similar type team in a few weeks-Wyomissing, who also has a coach who I think is a top 5 coach in the State. Really looking forward to that game. Changing demographics in the NE has caused former HS powerhouse programs like Mt Carmel and Berwick to plummet. Back in the day, those 2 teams could play with anyone regardless of class, now it’s Southern Columbia in that region and no one else.

  1002. Jc says:

    Imhotep, Imhotep!!! This ain’t fair Lasalle recruits

  1003. Matt says:

    I’m a D11 fan but I’ve seen Southern over the years in Hershey and a few state playoff games. They are as well coached as any team I have seen year in and year out. The tackling, fundamentals, line play. It’s just amazing to watch. They have stars for sure. But they also have kids that get coached up really well and maybe outplay thier talent level. Southern hasn’t lost since Dec 2016…..coming up on five years. Incredible. And they usually schedule a tough game or two out of conference every year. They played that state champion South Carolina team on ESPN a few years ago and also picked up Wyoming area who was undrafted in 3A at the time. They beat them 42-0….and Wyoming won 3A that year. Mount Carmel usually top ten or atleast HM in 2A every year. This year they picked up Berwick who is two classes up from them. I have all the respect for Southern Columbia. Impressive long standing public program.

  1004. Jerry Springer says:

    Southern Columbia is the real deal. Made the trip from the Wyoming valley last night to watch them. That program is what happens when you have good coaches, getting the best out of your talent, and support from your whole community and school. People do not realize how important that community support is. Anyone here ever attend a game where one team has no one sitting on their side cheering them on?

  1005. Helen Ann Long says:

    Year after year we hear all of these clowns on here (so called experts) saying SCA should move up, that they don’t play anyone, etc., etc. My suggestion is, why don’t the other schools in the D2 classification work as hard as the Southern kids do to make themselves better than the rest of the schools in that class. SCA has nothing to prove to anyone, just look at their schedule every year. They already PLAY UP every year and still keep winning. The haters are out there every year. You clowns need to shut up and help your own programs get better instead of sitting in your easy chairs having another beer and TRYING to think through the fog in your brains for something else hateful to say.

  1006. Kevin X says:

    @ McD65

    This may be a little late, but I’d hit up the Prep/Milton game. Not everyday you get to see a good team from Georgia live in your own backyard. Plus you get the chance to see one of, if not the top ranked junior players in the country.

    Besides, you can catch the LaSalle/Imhotep game anytime at your leisure………

  1007. Mike in Tacony says:

    I agree that the quality gap between D12 and D7 isn’t close:

    D12 state champion programs in the past decade:
    St Joe’s

    Thomas Jefferson
    Central Valley
    Penn Hills
    Quaker Valley
    Beaver Falls
    Steel Valley
    Pittsburgh Central Catholic
    South Fayette
    North Catholic
    North Allegheny

    D12’s strength is a few Philly all-star teams… while D7 gets state titles across all classes and from a variety of teams, most of them boundary programs, all while pulling from a smaller population.

    That Thomas Jefferson beat Wood, North Allegheny beat LaSalle, South Fayette beat Imhotep, and Pine Richland beat St Joe’s is legit crazy. Meanwhile, Philly boundary schools can’t even stay on the field against those same programs. The WPIAL remains the class of PA.

  1008. Jc says:

    So if your a small school you would get penalized for being good but if your in the largest classification like st. Joes prep and you keep winning that’s ok. Sounds like a good idea.

  1009. #Buzz says:

    I jus through 16 well known schools but I definitely could have did a better 16 but my point being top 16 teams need to be in a open classification where recruiting is allowed for those that will compete in the SWEET 16 tourney playing other high quality opponents.

    Also, WPIAL is okay but compared to Philly the talent gap in teams and quality of players is a far from close. That’s jus goes back into Population count if you took top 5 from Philly vs WPIAL philly will dominate probably 4-1 odds.

    Yes it has fell off. We clearly seen it in the western pa vs everybody showcase I think western pa won 1 game out their own showcase.

  1010. Mike in Tacony says:

    To say, “St. Joe’s and LaSalle compete for players” is only half of the equation. It’s not just about competition. Philly charter / Catholics pull from a population of millions. Southern Columbia pulls from a population of tens of thousands.

    Second, Berks Catholic has never even played in a state title game so I’m not sure how they are top 16. They run a nice 4A program but have never been a top 20 team in PA and are currently outside of the top 100 teams in the state on MaxPreps.

    Finally, WPIAL still rules high school football in this state. Look at the number of different D7 schools that have won state titles compared to every other district. Most districts have the same 1-3 competitive powers each season. Meanwhile, D7 fields a dozen teams each year with a reasonable chance to win a state title. The depth of quality teams and the breadth across classifications in the greater Pittsburgh area remains light years ahead of any other district.

  1011. Jeff H. says:

    @Mark Dodgson – so all small Catholic schools regardless of size should play 6A? Even ones that struggle to be competitive in their regular classification? I’ll take it you meant that sarcastically because no one with any common sense would argue that all small catholic or charter schools should be forced to play 6A.

    @Buzz – Western Pa football fell off a mountain? There is no question the quality of play and the number of big time recruits are down in the WPIAL, but that’s true across most of the state, not just in Western Pa. The WPIAL still manages to win a couple of state titles every year and had their share of power 5 recruits last year, Derrick Davis from Gateway went to LSU, Khalil Dinkins from NA to Penn State and Donovan McMillon from Peters went to Florida, just to name a few, Pitt also signed 4-5 kids, so there is still some top notch talent from around here, just not as many kids as in decades past.

    Regarding this annual debate about whether SC should play up in class, I would have preferred when the PIAA instituted the success/transfer rule they left the transfers out of it and just focused on a schools success, if a school dominates a classification year in and year out they should be forced to move up for the following cycle, IMO that would do more to help competitive balance across the state than bringing transfers into the equation. If that rule were in effect SC would be playing at least 4A by now, TJ would be in 5A, etc.

  1012. mcd 65 says:

    LaSalle/ Imhotep and Saint Joe Prep/ Milton Georgia , both Saturday afternoon in Philly. Coin flip which to attend .

  1013. mcd 65 says:

    @ JC, Within their area is defined as within their borders. My lord why cant you understand . SC and others in the small towns dont have the likes of Lasalle and Saint joe prep recruiting their best talent away , that is what was meant. Stop all the defensive responses where they arent appropriate and enjoy football in Pa. I think its great to have the community behind your team . I remember when CB West was king and the crowds they used to draw. Have a great season whoever you choose to follow.

  1014. FrankG says:

    @ mark d Do you really think Bishop Guilfoyle or Berks Catholic, which don’t have borders, should be in the same classification as North Penn or Coatesville? Would anything be gained by having Scranton Prep move to 6A when, for as long as I can remember, they’ve never made it to a state semifinal–despite not having borders?

  1015. jc says:

    Hey buzz they mercy ruled the 3a state champion that year.

  1016. mark dodgson says:

    guys then why have classifications ??? and i don’t want to hear about a Catholics school or charter school if you don’t have borders you should be 6A!!!!

  1017. #Buzz says:

    I dont understand you my guy your excited bout small ball football lol calm down. Cuz truth be told Southern only played one comp team and that was on ESPN they represented the state well but other than that who have southern really beat ? None of the Big Dawgs they could schedule Berks Catholic etc … They don’t wanna ruin there little town tradition lol so they play teams who they know they can compete with.

  1018. jc says:

    When I’m given examples of imagine what we would have won if we stayed where we were????? Lol lol lol what have you won??? Nothing!!!! Would you rather be the best team in your classification or one of the best teams in another classification that you moved up to and I think every kid would pick a state title. In this day and age you can’t use the excuse of more looks from colleges, that’s a cop out. If your good people know your good. So yes everyone knows all these smart adults would pick a couple district 12 championships over to many state titles to count.

  1019. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark

    I’d trade you all 5 of those games for just one game against either Thomas Jefferson, ECP, Imhotep or Gov. Mifflin.

  1020. #BUZZ says:

    @Mark u jus made the perfect example OF WHY THEY SHOULD BE ATLEAST A 4A school. How many of those 4 or 5A schools they gone beat ? That doesn’t even sound right they play 5A 4A 3A but compete on 2a bracket and dominate year in and year out. Imagine if Imhotep stayed @ 3A. I don’t think nobody would like that lol

    @Mcd65 Definitely Probably replace Berks Catholic

  1021. jc says:

    Southern gets all the good kids in the area??? Lol southern Columbia has direct borders with north schuylkill ( a lot of people are not aware of this but it does have a border with ns, mount Carmel, Danville, berwick. They don’t get all the best players. In fact one of there better players even transferred out to berwick a few years ago. So many of your facts on the coal region are actually myths.

  1022. mcd 65 says:

    Yo #Buzz, You left out Wood in your sweet 16 LOL.

  1023. mark dodgson says:

    @BUZZ what do you want form Sothern they have this year on the schedule 4A Berwick 4A Selinsgrove 3A Wyoming area 3A Wyomissing and 2A MT Carmel all of these programs have won state titles What do you think they should do travel to Pittsburgh and Philly every week to play High School Football ? bet the budget would love that. they are a good program but they are still 2A school in the middle of no where .

  1024. #Buzz says:

    @JC Your proud SC stays @ what 2A or 3A ??? Lol dominate year in and year out, HOW BOUT MOVE UP AND STEP YALL WEIGHT UP A CLASS OR 2 I heard y’all beat up on 4A and 5A schools but continue to play down lol yeah great 4 y’all.

    @Jeff Let’s be honest here Western PA Football has fell off a mountain. Don’t get me wrong WESTERN PA FOOTBALL IS HISTORICAL AND HAS GREAT MOMENTS IN HISTORY. But I say the last maybe 4-5 years I haven’t really seen a GOOD GROUP of kids produced from that side of PA. Since PineRichland QB #1. The problem with PIAA is that there playoff and division is outta wack they need to stack the competition in one playoff tourney let’s call it a open division sweet 16 all PA house hold name schools will compete 4 a PIAA title. There will be no classification 4 this division and these schools may OPENLY recruit because they WILL NOT COMPETE 4 CLASSIFICATION titles meaning they will compete amongst each other in a tourney of playoff form there will be no East and west side teams will be ranked amongst competition with a 3 year contract so if a team can’t compete @ high level or can’t recruit to get kids to there school they can drop out after 3 years and a new team can step in. But all other high schools will be placed in division with strict transferring rules. That would make PA FOOTBALL EXCITING AGAIN

    Sweet 16

  1025. The Joneses says:

    @JC I knew it wouldn’t take you long to resort to name calling. I grew up the same way you did. My friends from my block, we all played on the same teams and went to the same HS. When I got to college I realized I missed out on opportunity to compete like it is in the real world. I’ll stop here because logic doesn’t appeal to you and name calling give me zero satisfaction. You have your opinion, I have mine and we’ll both enjoy them.

  1026. FrankG says:

    @ mcd 65, You’ve hit the nail on the head. What we have in PA are entirely different school/community environments. There are no “Southern Columbia” type schools or communities in Philly or, to a large degree, in the SE PA area. Certainly in Philly, very few kids go to school with the same people from elementary through high school–and to some degree it’s been that way for decades, becoming even more and more that way over time. The absence of boundaries for both Catholic and public schools in Philly was both a cause and a result of deeper trends.

    What I’d like to see is some overall account of high school transfers–not just for student athletes. My impression is that there are more and more transfers in total but that basketball and football players are more likely to transfer–despite the PIAA rule change of a couple of years ago. It’s also my impression that the transfer rates vary very widely across the state–and why wouldn’t they since in most areas of the state there are only a couple of options if there are any options at all but that in SE PA there are many.

  1027. mcd 65 says:

    @ JC,

    I appreciate your frustration, BUT You clearly dont understand how the competition in the Philly area works. Yes there is recruiting to some degree by many schools but it is not like the whole team is being sought after as some make it out to be. The Imhotep team is comprised almost entirely of home grown [in your words] players from North Philly. Consider those players have their choice of playing for ANY Public HS in the city and the best players are being sought after by most of the PCL schools as well as the Inter -Ac league teams. Albie Crosby left for Neuman/Goretti but good players still choose to attend Tep . Who does the likes of Southern Columbia compete with for players ???? Ahem- None so they get every good player in their area and coach them up. Those kids know where they will be going to high school at a young age and are taught the SC systems as youngsters . I have great respect for the SC program and their coaches . there are tons of differences area to area so lets enjoy good football wherever and whatever the circumstances are .

  1028. jc says:

    The joneses you are a moron. Everyone getting a participation trophy lol. I guess I’m old school. I went to my high school and played sports with kids who I played with since I was 5 years old. My high school still plays that way and won a district title last year and finished the year undefeated. There ranked number 1 in the state early in the season and if a whole lot of things go there way they could have a successful season and go a long way in states. And there kids who know each other and whose families know each other. Take your prep schools and charter schools and catholic schools and let them figure things out and play each other.

  1029. Jeff H. says:

    #Buzz – I live in Western Pa and have followed high school football in this state since the 1970’s, I am not a big fan of PCC and never mind seeing them lose because their fan base and student body are pretty condescending towards other schools, but to say they are scared of competition at the highest level is a bit disingenuous and not accurate. First of all unlike most of the rest of the state WPIAL teams have very little flexibility in scheduling as the WPIAL makes the schedule for all WPIAL opponents, it’s true they could schedule an out of state team in the first few weeks of the season, but they typically have taken on other powerhouse teams from around the state, like Imhotep a few weeks ago and Erie Prep in years past. In fact they played a home and home with Erie Prep in 2017-2018, just because the don’t play teams from Ohio or other neighboring states doesn’t mean they don’t take on other top teams from around PA. And to PCC’s credit they play the best nonconference teams in the WPIAL regardless of classification, including Penn Hills last week and Pine Richland this week, while snobby North Alleghany refuses to play any 5a teams because they would look bad if they lose so they schedule opponents from Ohio instead, I guess it makes them feel better losing 35-0 to Pickering from Ohio than play a top 5a team from the WPIAL and risk losing.

    Imhotep fans should be excited this year, they have one of the most talented teams in the state regardless of classification, and they are the favorite to win 5a, but they have been the favorite many times in the past and have 1 state title to show for it. I agree they would have likely gone on a deep run in the playoffs last year, but I’m not so sure they would have beaten Pine Richland in the final, that would have been a tremendous game and it’s a shame for fans in this state it didn’t play out that way.

  1030. The Joneses says:

    @JC I guess your not as enlightened as your think. It’s a PIAA rule period. Not just for public schools. Ask Wood about it and what ECP may be looking at this year. I fine with any other argument or debate on Tep. I am just saying kill the recruiting crying. Your analogy is even off. The participation trophy era is never going to overtake the world of sports as you’d like. You have Pitt & Pennstate able offer a different stipend amount to students. Ivy’s don’t grant scholarships, but as the Yale coach told my son, “no one who Yale wanted to play football for them, and they wanted Yale, failed to attend because of money”. On top of that, there’s a reason why a kid not in the district can attend a public by paying tuition. It has been done.

    I, like a real fan, appreciate what SC has done and continues to do. I would like them to play some of the other teams to see how dominant the program really is. It’s not to diminish at all. I liken it to Jordan vs Kobe debate etc. I don’t hate on the winning programs or the loosing ones. Do they best with what you have because complaining does nothing.

  1031. The Joneses says:

    @Buzz SJP has 4 also (2 WR, DB, DT) and 3 more are getting playing time this year. The QB is a 24 kid who got the start this season. Still early. Roman is close behind. It’s being said the class of 24 is the most loaded class in a long time if not ever.

  1032. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    District 11 is in a 4 team sub bracket with District 2. Winner of that bracket plays another sub bracket winner between Districts 6, 8 and 10. Guessing that will be a Whitehall/ECP game. Winner of that game plays the District 12 champ, more than likely Jc’s Imhotep (but you know, its like 12 weeks away and anything can happen, which I hate to admit, is actually true, more doing with the Covid than anything else). Don’t know of any other challengers in D12 other than maybe Father Judge. Probably be your PCL/PPL D12 final. Winner of all of that plays the District 1 champ (let’s go with Upper Dublin :))

  1033. Jc says:

    How dare anyone say anything except imotep is the best, won’t give up a td, has the toughest schedule, lol. I guess your not up to date on the transfer rule which public schools have to move up in class if they have so many transfers. Yes I get some public schools try and recruit but cmon it’s legal for your charter, catholic and prep schools to do so. It’s almost comparing an Ivy League school who didn’t give athletic scholarships at one time to an sec football school who has everyone who is playing on an athletic scholarship. There is no bigger disadvantage in sports comparable than Pennsylvania allowing private and public schools play for the same title. And I live in a neighboring school district with southern Columbia and if you really new anything about southern you would know they don’t need to recruit anyone. There homegrown kids and unlike imotep they win every week and every year and they don’t care if they give up a point this year or if they play the toughest schedule they care whether they hold a trophy over there heads almost every year.

  1034. The Joneses says:

    @JC can you please stop acting like public schools do not recruit! They can’t do it at the same lengths as others and it likely because they do not have the tools or substance to do it. If the public high school coach, AD, teacher etc. talks to a child about staying or coming to the high school instead of going/transferring to private/catholic school, it is the very definition of recruiting.

    Been there done that, it happens.
    You already know its not against the PIAA rules for them to do it, so they aren’t cheating.
    Finally, Tep hasn’t won a bunch of championships or have a new legendary winning streak like SC. Does this ever get tiring?

  1035. #Buzz says:

    U sound like a hater and don’t know Imhotep. They play national teams every year this will be THERE 3 consecutive time play Dematha. 2-1 in the last 3 years now if you talking bout a ducking comp program look @ PCC they play there normal league schedule every year no outta state comp or anything. Why ? Cuz there scared of competition @ the highest level. Imhotep played Dematha the year before Covid hit they played Bergen Catholic and Dematha also Malvern and Lasalle. Imhotep runs from nobody and the fans are excited this year cuz last year would have been a State Championship run they missed out on so we’re excited to see how far the kids go. Jus cuz your highschool team probably got smashed by them don’t hate

    @ Joneses
    Imhotep might have that class as well they have bout 4-4 kids in that 24 class with FBS offers I think 2 CB and 2 DT if I’m not mistaken

  1036. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – where does D11 factor into the 5a bracket, who would they play in the quarterfinals? Are they in the western bracket and would play the D3 winner, presumably Mifflin, with the winner taking on the D7 champ in the semi’s. Last year was such a bizarre bracket due to all the forfeits so I can’t remember which districts were slated to play where. Whitehall from D11 has a very solid team and I would expect them to be competitive in the playoffs.

  1037. The Joneses says:


    Yeah Tep has every class locked in except 24. They continue to put kids in college. Many thought the program will fail after Albie left. Now they just want it to fail. Gotta love what they do. I had the pleasure of talking to a few coaches and they try to also build great young men.

  1038. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G, You have some good points there. DeMatha isn’t the same team this year. I expected Tep to beat them. Roman will lose to them because they aren’t that good yet. I think Gonzaga & Milton are better than other non-league game scheduled. Gonzaga just beat McDonugh 26-6 and LaSalle plays McDonugh. I will say this is probably the best not league schedule we’ve seen for schools in a long time. It typically has only been prep once LaSalle stopped doing it as much.

    @Jeff H it would really suck if ECP was forced to move up.

  1039. Jc says:

    Imotep charter fans are in the early lead for the most ridiculous fans so far this year. Worried about whether they have the toughest schedule, who they are going to play 12 weeks from now and whether they were going to give up a point all year. Here is an idea, they should play one of the toughest schedules every year. They recruit and are allowed to which 90 % of the Piaa are not allowed to do. But to be so dumb and arrogant to not think anything can happen from now till 12 weeks from now affecting wins and losses makes you a dummy. With covid and injuries you can’t take anything for granted.

  1040. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Assuming that the PIAA didn’t tweak the brackets when I wasn’t looking, yes, they are the same this year as last, hopefully with more teams actually playing on the east side. If Imhotep and ECP do meet up, and it’s kind of crazy to think they wouldn’t (don’t they always), they’d be playing in the quarter finals. Winner of that game would play the D1 champ in the eastern finals/state semis.

    Saw something a little while ago that if ECP makes it to that quarter finals game, and even if they loose that game, and if they have the required 3 or more transfers, they’d move up to 6A for the next 2 year cycle.

  1041. Michael says:

    @Mcd65 – I heard the game is @ 1

  1042. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    It may be that for the fist time this century SJP’s non-league schedule is not the hardest–by far–of any school in the area. I wouldn’t, however, say SJP’s isn’t at least “close” to Tep’s. St. Mary was not as good as expected, but Milton (from Georgia), despite the one loss in their first three games, may be as good as anyone Tep is playing and Gonzaga (2-0 so far) is probably better than PCC or DeMatha–or LaSalle.

  1043. NW PA says:

    Greetings from the great northwest, it’s been awhile. @Jeff H I believe the brackets will be the same as last year but you just never know. To piggy back off your statement, Tep and Mifflin are the top 2 5A teams in the state. Erie Cathedral has a solid team this year but they are fairly young, they only start 4 seniors on each side of the ball and start 3 sophomores and 4 juniors. They will be relevant in the playoffs but they don’t beat those top 2. We will find out how good Erie Cathedral is in the coming weeks as they play Solon Ohio, Buffalo St Francis, Benedictine, and Mcdowell all in a row. I think they beat St Francis, and loose to Benedictine, but Solon and Mcdowell will be very close. Mcdowell lost some firepower to graduation but still has their massive line from last year.

  1044. Jeff H. says:

    @#Buzz – I agree Erie Prep will be a factor in the playoffs as usual, but at this point I’d say Imhotep and Mifflin are the 2 best 5a teams in the state and think if anyone in 5a beats Imhotep it will be Mifflin. Does anyone know if ECP is on the Eastern side of the bracket like they were last year. If they are not then they would probably play Mifflin in the quarterfinals because the WPIAL winner enters the state tournament in the semi-finals. Assuming ECP is in the east I foresee Imhotep vs. Erie in one semi-final and Mifflin vs. WPIAL winner (likely Penn Trafford) in the other semi.

  1045. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy, anybody else……

    Does anyone have a tougher, more challenging non league/conference schedule than ‘Tep this year?? Granted, only 3 games, but still……… I don’t know if anyone is even close, maybe LaSalle??

  1046. phillyboy says:

    Imhotep and DeMatha were supposed to play at the NW Supersite Friday night. From a block away I could sense something was terribly wrong. There was no energy, no buses, nobody on the field, nobody in the stands. When I saw the padlocked gates my suspicion became a certainty. Dog gone it, phillyboy himself makes an appearance and this is the gratitude he gets — I tell you, smh. At the eleventh hour they flipped the script, ‘Why you flip on me, homie?’ Anyway, glad to see Imhotep vanquished the darlings of DC. If they can keep it rolling against LaSalle next week and complete the hat trick, that would be a monster 3-0 start, putting them on the national radar.

  1047. says:

    I certainly appreciate this website. Continue the good work!

  1048. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Mifflin obviously will make a lot of teams look bad this year, but Wilson had chances to make the game closer. To beat Mifflin a team will have to avoid turnovers and sustain drives. My feeling is that Wilson will rebound and get better as the season moves along. Their next game against Exeter should be a good test for them.

  1049. Wilson4Ever says:

    TF I don’t think the extra remarks you made about the Wilson QB were necessary to get your points across. Like I said he still has to learn the complex Wilson system better for them to contend for another championship this year. Thank you.

  1050. mcd 65 says:

    @ Michael, I read the laSalle /Tep game was at noon ,Springfield ,Montgomery county just off route 309. Where did you hear 7 ?? thanks

  1051. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul 51 New Hope 0 Score was 44-0 at halftime Hard to tell how good the Golden Panthers are as Archbishop Carroll and New Hope don’t look very strong this year. I will say this PJP’S basketball on grass offense is really fun to watch. New Hope looked to have about 35 players, PJP easily doubled that number, I heard PJP has 33 Freshman on the team. The schedule gets a lot tougher with Inter Ac Springside Chestnut Hill Academy next week and Berks Catholic the following week.

  1052. Michael says:

    It says the Imhotep/ Lasalle game is at Springfield High School next Saturday @ 7; Anyone know what Springfield high they are talking about?

  1053. #Buzz says:


    The point I was making is that Isheem beat all odds and continued to pursue his dreams with the help of Imhotep alumni and staff.


    I still like ECP as Imhotep biggest threat.

  1054. Jeff H says:

    From afar it appears Imhotep and Gov Mifflin are the top 2 teams in the state in 5a and wouldn’t be surprised if they meet in Hershey for the state title, assuming the brackets are the same as last year and D3 plays D7 in the semi-finals. I have not seen Penn Trafford yet and think they are the best 5a team in the WPIAL, they have a very interesting game next week against 4a Belle Vernon who will challenge TJ for the 4a district title

    Speaking of TJ they were very impressive against Gateway last night until they got conservative late in the 3rd quarter after going up 21-3 and almost allowed Gateway to come back and steal one, as expected they dominated in the trenches and that was the difference in the game, Gateway QB Brad Birch was under constant pressure and sacked numerous times. TJ’s defense set the tone right off the bat, Gateway started on their own 20 after a touchback, first running play lost 2 yards, then 2 straight sacks had Gateway punting from their end zone, and a low snap resulted in a safety and before fans had settled into their seats it was 2-0. Penn Trafford is built very similar to TJ, big and strong offensive line, power running game, and very good defense, I expect their lines will batter Gateway just like TJ did last night when they play next month.

    Agree the game next week between LaSalle and Imhotep may be the best game in the state, there certainly will be no shortage of D1 talent on either side, will be a good indicator of whether LaSalle can challenge SJP this year.

  1055. Kevin X says:

    @ #Buzz

    I wouldn’t exactly be putting Isheem Young on top of your ‘Tep pedestal.

  1056. mcd 65 says:

    # Buzz, Ditto Tep. Next week a real battle with LaSalle . This one should be one of the best matches thus far this year.

  1057. #Buzz says:

    Imhotep beats Dematha

    Then I come to realize they have the top player in the state in 3 of the 4 next classes

    2022 Enai White
    2023 Rahmir Steward
    2024 ?
    2025 Zahir Mathis

    That’s crazy all on one team HOME GROWN people may hate on that program but that program produces studs and not kids that go to college and drop out 4 example Isheem Young if many remember was Imhotep top player @ one point. He’s now Iowa State Saftey #1 and is noticed as one of the nation top player. I did research on there roster they currently have 17 D1 players though out classes 2022-2025. That is crazy not mentioning how many kids go D2 from there. I jus wanna give a great program its flowers. Coming from Philadelphia I know football wasn’t big there and to see where it is now is great. Congratz 2 Da “TEP”

  1058. Thomas Foley says:

    Jeff H, left the Wilson/Mifflin game at halftime, it was a repeat blowout from last year. Mifflin looks to be every bit as good as last year. Wilson’s hyped and well traveled QB-(3rd school in 4 years) looked completely overmatched. The Wilson/Exeter game next week will tell if Exeter is going to make it a 2 team race in District 3 5A this year.

  1059. Wilson4Ever says:

    GM 42-Wilson 14. Governor Mifflin was clearly the better team tonight on offense and defense and also with Nick Singleton it was like trying to stop a landslide. GM has plenty of weapons and they didn’t need any help but that’s exactly what they got from a Wilson team that constantly shot themselves in the foot in the first half with some sloppy play by not taking care of the ball fumbling and giving GM some short fields to work with. Wilson played better in the second half with both teams scoring 14 points a piece but the damage was already done and with the mercy rule clock running it made things even worse.The Wilson transfer QB from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman didn’t play well and he still has to learn the complex Wilson system a lot better for Wilson to contend for a title again this year. He was out of rhythm and used some bad judgement by trying to get rid of the ball instead of taking a sack on one play which led to a fumble and was inaccurate on most of his throws but he did have a couple of nice runs but things kind of snowballed from there with the constant bad field position Wilson was in. Give GM credit for taking advantage of Wilson’s mistakes and by keeping Wilson off balance by moving the ball by spreading it around and by playing good defense allowing them to keep the Gurski-Linn Trophy for another year which is probably one of the biggest high school rivalry trophy’s in the nation (seeing is believing). They bring it out on the field on a cart and it takes a couple of big players from the winning team to lift it high in the air after the game is over. LOL.

  1060. Jeff H. says:

    Surprised there’s not more comments about the Governor Mifflin vs. WWL game tonight, there were some posts about this game last weekend, but none for the last several days. On paper this rivalry is one of the better games in the state tonight, do you Wilson guys think your defense is going to have much luck in slowing down Nick Singleton? I know Mifflin blasted Wilson last year, I expect this game will be much closer but I still think Mifflin wins by 2 scores.

    The most intriguing game in the WPIAL tonight is Gateway vs. Thomas Jefferson and that’s the game I’ll be attending, Gateway is preseason #1 in 5A in the WPIAL, TJ #1 in 4A (what else is new!)
    Fascinating matchup between TJ’s strength in the trenches against Gateway’s speed and skill players, very interested to see how Gateway sophomore quarterback Brad Birch looks against TJ’s defense, he’s already got an offer from Oregon. Gateway has a slight advantage from playing an actual game last week and not a scrimmage, but I have a hunch TJ’s advantage in the trenches will wear down Gateway’s defense in the 2nd half so I’m picking TJ to come away with a big road win in a close game.

  1061. Matt says:

    What a game last night between Northwestern and Northern Lehigh. Two rivals going back and fourth. NL missed two or attempt to take lead with 2 min left. NL will be force in dist 11 2A. Schedule is brutal for them. They played pa preps state ranked number 1 muncy last week +and won by three scores) NW who is 4A honorable mention this week. In a few weeks it’s Notre Dame and NS back to back who are both top 5 in 3A. They could be 7-3 at end of year and be a very good team with close to loses to that’s higher class tanked teams. Of course any chance of a trip to Hershey for them is gone with Southern Columbia almost guaranteed to be there in AA. NW is going to be tough in 4A and give Beca a run. A bunch of big games in the valley tonight headlined by Emmaus and Freedom.

  1062. David Mika says:


  1063. Buddy says:

    Rankings ?

  1064. d6football says:

    Thanks Jeff H. I did some reading and it appears the rabbit hole is much deeper. Apparently the coach has active warrants out for his arrest for fraud. This article explains my question earlier as to whom was funding the team.

    Apparently this is the same coach who arranged the COF Academy that North Allegheny played in 2018.

  1065. Jeff H. says:

    To add some more to the Bishop Sycamore saga Ron Coursey, the former AD at Woodland Hills who organized the WPIAL vs. Everyone Classic (he moved on to be the AD at Chambersburg this summer), was quoted in the local paper as saying the Sycamore coach told him they had a high school team and a Prep team, and Coursey told him they had to bring their high school team in order to comply with PIAA rules, and also made them sign a PA contract that stipulated they wouldn’t use any 5th yr players and otherwise comply with all PIAA guidelines. Coursey was further quoted as saying he looked into their opponents from last year and that’s why he scheduled them against a 2A team in Sto-Rox, who is one of the favorites to win 2A in the WPIAL.

    I don’t know if anyone caught any footage of that game, but in a bizarre twist both teams wore black pants and black jerseys, when it was 90 degrees and muggy with a heat index near 100, the Sycamore coach said they forgot to pack their white road jerseys, in 45+ years of watching HS football can’t say I’ve ever seen a game in which both teams wore the same color pants and jerseys, I have no idea how the officials could tell them apart.

  1066. Jeff H. says:

    Thought I would make some comments and observations from the PR vs Harrisburg game on Saturday. Impressive comeback by the Cougars, they were down 14-0 early in the 2nd quarter, and with such a young team on a hot and humid afternoon it would have been easy for them to get rattled, but to their credit they hung in there, scored a TD late in the 2nd to cut it to 14-6 at half, then made some adjustments at halftime and clearly outplayed PR in the 2nd half, having a lot success running the ball between the tackles. Mahkai Hopkins is a load to tackle, MaxPreps lists him at 6’1″ 235 but he looks bigger, Kyle Williams also had over 100 yards rushing, and the Harrisburg OL dominated and wore down PR in the 2nd half. It was obvious Harrisburg had the better conditioning, PR definitely looked gassed in the 2nd half, and there were more kids on Harrisburg playing both ways than PR. Harrisburg is a solid team, but I think their lack of depth will catch up to them against some of the tougher teams in D3, along with starting a freshman at QB

    As for PR they looked disorganized quite often, on at least 3 occasions they only had 10 guys on the field, and once even lined up on the wrong side for a kickoff, kids arguing with coaches on the sideline, definitely not the same confident team that won a state title last year. I know it’s only 1 game but based on what I saw I expect PR to lose a few more games, this coaching staff appears to be in way over their heads and they will be outcoached in most games, although they will still make the playoffs because they are in a weak conference.

    As of right now I’d make Penn Trafford the favorite to win their first ever WPIAL title after finishing as runner-up 5 times, although Gateway seems to have their number in the playoffs, PT wins the regular season game and then Gateway knocks them off in the playoffs, but I think PT has a big advantage over Gateway in the trenches and that may give them the upper hand in their quest for an elusive district title.

  1067. mcd 65 says:

    Will the St. Joe Prep/ St. Mary Rykin game be live streamed anywhere ??

  1068. mcd 65 says:

    @ joneses, I went to McD in District 12 not the one that played LaSalle. They were supposed to be loaded with several D1 players . LaSalle is loaded as well for sure.

    I recall reading about Bishop Sycamore a couple years ago . They were supposed to become the IMG of the North, at least thats what they were selling. I was watching that IMG game until the rain delay. Sycamore was terrible. What a scam !!!

  1069. Chief Red Raider says:

    thanks Kevin X

  1070. d6football says:

    Thanks Kevin. Yikes, so many questions about this whole ordeal. How did they get kids from all over the country who mostly graduated to form this “school”?, Who funds the team and travel? Who thought it was a good idea for the players to turnaround on a days notice and play a top 5 national team after losing to a good WPIAL small school? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the course of the year.

  1071. Kevin X says:

    @ d6

    Short answer: Yes

    Longer answer:

  1072. d6football says:

    Could anyone fill me in further on this Bishop Sycamore deal? Was this the same squad who played Sto-Rox friday evening and then IMG on Sunday?

  1073. The Joneses says:

    @FrankG- You’ve been around long enough to know which individuals will find something blameworthy with any they do at SJP.

  1074. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Yes, “desperate” is the correct word.

  1075. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65 Ewers leaving HS early was not about getting to play at Ohio State this year. It was about him receiving close to 800K in endorsement money via NIL. I agree either he or McCord will be in the portal next year. Is McDevitt as bad as the LaSalle score suggested? Putting up that score with 2 key starters not playing makes me wonder.

  1076. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    SJP was scheduled to play Bishop Sycamore last year. They were desperate to put together a season and looked everywhere in the five or six states closest to Philly. Bishop Sycamore was one of two non-PCL schools that said “yes,” partly, it seems, because they are a program with some ambition. I don’t see anything blameworthy in what the Prep did.

  1077. Kevin X says:

    So have you guys been getting a good laugh out of this ESPN/IMG/Bishop Sycamore debacle from yesterday?? You really want to know what is wrong with high school football??

    Funny thing also is that St. Joe Prep was scheduled to play Bishop Sycamore last year (or was it 2 years ago??)

  1078. Kevin X says:

    Chief, you can try the below link (expanded box score, no write-up), but not sure if it will work…..

  1079. mcd 65 says:

    phillyboy, This Ewers skipping his senior year of HS is just ridiculous. It would be realistic to find him sitting the bench for a couple years behind Stroud and McCord. Better yet he goes to the portal. I dont wish the kid ill will , but if he succeeds early it could begin a trend that would not be good for HS football.

  1080. Wilson4Ever says:

    I agree 100% Scott G. Hagy. No matter what year it is with this rivalry you have to be at very your best to come out on top because this is one of the best rivalries in the state of Pennsylvania. And especially the last couple of years since Governor Mifflin has had some of their best teams ever with Nick Singleton leading them. It’s always a classic but this one could be one of the best ever in this very old heated rivalry game. The past games has included some crazy pranks played on each other’s schools (that we can’t mention here) and pageantry on a smaller scale of course similar to the Ohio State-Michigan and Army-Navy games. And in early the days this was always the last game played on the schedule with the suspense and pressure building up every week but some scheduling problems ended that.

  1081. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Wilson was clearly better than Central Dauphin with all their starters in, but a shocking number got dinged up enough to put backups in and it turned what looked like a comfortable win into a nail biter.
    Obviously they’re going to need their best playing at their peak next game.

  1082. FrankG says:

    @phillyboy I feel the same about the Ewers situation. A terrible precedent and a symptom of a big problem. Years ago I saw some widely-shared stats about the actual chances high school basketball “stars” would ever play a single game in the NBA let alone have a decent career in the league. You know what the stats showed: the chances were extremely low. Someone should do the same with football. I wonder if Ewers’ parents ever considered that the chances of his having a career-ending serious knee or shoulder injury are much higher than the chance of his ever being a starting NFL QB. And I’m leaving aside any educational or developmental considerations.

  1083. Chief Red Raider says:

    Is there a news blackout on the Coatesville/CB West game? :). I know Coatesville won, but could not find a write up anywhere. Two storied teams, but crickets on PA preps, Bucks times, here, etc.

  1084. Kevin X says:

    @ Phillyboy

    Yeah, heard about the Ewers situation, can’t say I’m really paying much, if any, attention to it tho. Sounds like mostly driven by the NIL ruling. Honestly don’t care, no opinion, his business. What I am curious about going forward is what kind of competition he will give Kyle McCord. Which one will enter the transfer portal first.

  1085. EmanD3 says:

    They big key to that Wilson win over CD…

    Wilson rushing stats..44/297 and 3 scores.
    CD rarely gives up 300 on the ground, so let’s give some cred to that WWL O line. They controlled the trenches for most of the night!

    Stopping Singleton from Governor Mifflin next Friday is another story. Not to worry…he only had 284 on the ground with 5 rushing TD’s yesterday!! GM attempted one pass the entire game…so let’s see what the Wilson D cord. dials up

  1086. EmanD3 says:

    Speaking of Southern Columbia…Wyomissing travels there in a few weeks. Be curious to see how that plays out! Wyo has a lot of hardware in their storied history…plus even when they lose, they rarely get blown out. There will be a lot of tailgating on both sides for that one. Hope Wyo can keep it close!

  1087. Wilson4Ever says:

    The Wilson /Central Dauphin rivalry game between the powers of the Mid Penn Conference and the Lancaster-Lebanon Conference lived up to all the hype. It turned into a good old fashioned slobber knocker. The earlier part of the game was mostly dominated by Wilson’s stud running backs Jadyn Jones and Gavin Lenart. Then later in the game after those two Wilson running backs got dinged up with some injuries Central Dauphin came roaring back and made it close with their own running game powered by Tyler English and some slick play by CDs QB Max Mosey taking control of things. Final score was Wilson 27 Central Dauphin 20. This game is always an instant classic that’s listed as one of the top games in the state every year.

  1088. David Mika says:

    Southern Columbia has one 61 straight games.

  1089. phillyboy says:

    Just wanted to get something off my chest, did anybody hear about the Quinn Ewers situation? He was to be entering his senior season at Southlake Carrol High School in the Dallas area this year. He was considered the #1 high school QB prospect in the country playing for one of the most prominent football programs in Texas. Southlake won 3 straight state titles and a couple USA Today mythical national championships back in the mid 2000’s as I remember. They had a deep run in last year’s playoffs so would have been interesting to see if they could ‘get the thing done’ as Andy Reid would say. Well so much for that, he is now enrolled at Ohio State. What on earth is that all about?! We’ve known about players leaving college early for decades now, not a problem, it’s big business, I get it. But leaving high school a year early, come on man, completely ridiculous. First of all, how is it even possible, doesn’t one have to complete HS to be eligible for the next level. Beyond that, is it worth foregoing the enjoyment of the promising senior season for the naming rights chump change? Even if it’s substantial, stands to reason the same deals will be available one year later. I remember Dan Connor left to Penn State after his senior season in ’03 in January of ’04 but at least he got in his senior season. Anyway, got more important things to be concerned about, just some thoughts. I will say this, good to see he chose Ohio State, as the Buckeyes are the North’s best chance of winning a national title — so tired of seeing the South dominate.

    Regarding Southern Columbia, does anybody know at what is their current win streak? Watched part of their game last night on youtube. Goodness gracious, I wish there were more public programs like that, so enjoyable to watch.

  1090. EmanD3 says:

    Big Boy football in West Lawn..Wilson 27-21 over Central Dauphin. First team up 27-7, with 4 minutes left. CD scores 14 against second team. WWL OL out shined CD’s OL..that was the difference. Plus Bulldogs QB and RB’s played well. Next week @ Governor Mifflin…we shall see!

  1091. mcd 65 says:

    Archbishop Wood handled Neshaminy easily with a great defense and an improved passing game. Their next weeks game against Neuman/Goretti should be a good game as NG beat a very solid Roman squad . Woods defense has good size and very good athleticism . They get to the ball quickly and their pass rush is impressive . Most impressive imo were their Linebackers and Defensive backs.

  1092. Foleman says:

    34-27 Central York over Exeter. Great game that came down to the last minute. Exeter is very talented, CY’S Pribula a man among boys. I don’t remember either team punting. This is a game that Exeter should have won by 2 scores. Exeter was down in the red zone 5 times in the 1st half and came away with only 14 points, however, a pass interference play in the end zone against CY wasn’t called. Bonehead play calling in the red zone cost Exeter, their stud fullback Yocum was running wild against CY’S defense and Exeter calls a pass play on 2nd and 2 from the CY 19 which resulted in a sack and then a missed field goal. They did something similar in the 3rd quarter which cost them points again. Exeter has as much talent as any team in District 3-I believe they have 5 div 1 prospects and their QB is also VG, they have the talent to beat the heavyweights on their schedule-Wilson, Governor Mifflin and Berks Catholic plus they could win District 3 5A. Do they have the coaching to do this? Exeter has been coming up small in big games the last several years, this looks to be their best team.

  1093. EmanD3 says:

    Central York beats 5A Exeter today, 35-28, but Exeter gave them all they could handle. Exeter stalls on CY 8 with 30 sec to go. Pribula is a beast at QB, with good WR’s. Exeter will score a lot points this year and win a lot of games. CY run D not so good. Also, Exeter one TD called back, missed 2 FG’s, and QB threw a pick at CY 20 early in the 4th…..Good game!! Central Dauphin @ Wilson WL, next at 6:00

  1094. Jeff H. says:

    Imhotep defense as good as advertised, they win a defensive slugfest with PCC 12-6. Score was 3-0 PCC at half, after a Tep turnover at their own 39 midway through first quarter PCC drove down to the 5, but 3 straight negative plays led to a 33 yard field goal and that held up until half. Tep took 2nd half kick and went on an impressive 80 yard drive with all running plays, most of them out of the wildcat, that took 6 minutes off the clock, 2 point try failed and Tep led 6-3. They traded punts and on the ensuing possession Tep turned the ball over again and PCC ended up kicking a 46 yard field goal to tie at 6-6 with just under 11 minutes to go. They traded punts again and Tep got the better of the field position and went on a 46 yard drive to take the lead 12-6 with 1:48 to go, then held PCC on 4th down and the game was over. Both defenses are excellent, especially Tep’s, team speed is off the charts and they fly to the ball, White and Wylie are dynamic playmakers and consistently disrupted the offense. Tep is going to be a handful in 5A and I see why they are preseason number 1, I will see PR tomorrow and Gateway and the other top WPIAL 5a teams over the next several weeks, based on what I saw tonight I have my doubts any of the WPIAL teams are going to be able to do much against Tep’s defense.

  1095. mcd 65 says:

    Same old Imhotep Penalties are rampant . If they ever get some discipline they would be great , but year after year its the same deal.

  1096. EmanD3 says:

    CD @ WWL rescheduled until tomorrow at 6.
    Nasty lightning storm from about 6:30- 7:30..they evacuated the stadium just in time

  1097. New2PA says:

    Here’s a tweet I saw with a link to the Imhotep-PCC game:

  1098. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. Yes. I am not doing preseason rankings…I will have rankings next week.

  1099. Matt says:

    Hey Dave,

    Will you be releasing the top 5 in each class today?

  1100. EmanD3 says:

    Also in Berks County…Central York @ Exeter(5A). Lot of people hyping Exeter this year. We will found out quickly how good they are, after facing the best QB in the state of Pa. Don’t forget CY put up 42 on CD last year in D3 6A final!

  1101. David Mika says:

    Enjoy your season! If anyone on here wants to help cover a game(s) for us let me know. You can email me at

    Take care!

  1102. EmanD3 says:

    Will be at Central Dauphin @ Wilson(West Lawn)….should be a slobber knocker.

  1103. David Mika says:

    Thank you for the update!

  1104. CTHS 55 says:

    Lewisburg @ Shamokin has been moved to Sat. @ 3:30

  1105. Jeff H. says:

    @mcd 65 – I still like Tep’s chances against PCC even with the RB out, I think both offenses are going to struggle to put together long drives, turnovers and special teams could very well decide it, anticipate a fairly low scoring game, something like 20-14. I will be there and post a report tomorrow night after the game, will also be at the PR vs Harrisburg game on Saturday afternoon, and the nightcap with Woody vs. Wayne Valley NJ. To answer someone else’s question I’m not aware of the Tep-PCC game being livestreamed tomorrow night but both the PR-Harrisburg and Woody-Wayne games on Saturday can be found on

  1106. mcd 65 says:

    Here we go !!!! I will be heading to the Wood /Neshaminy game Friday night . Where are you headed ?????

  1107. Mike says:

    Definitely got to go see Milton vs Prep; Milton has the #1 2023 Prospect, wanna see the game plan to block him.

  1108. Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh picked up #1 state A ranked Muncy after Panther Valley had to cancel. Northern Lehigh who returns a lot including 6ft 1″ 225 lb running back Matt Frame will now have a huge test to travel up to Muncy on a day notice and play a great A team. Northern Lehigh also had Notre Dame and North Schuylkill on the reschedule. That’s 3 top 5 state ranked teams for the HM AA team.

  1109. D6Football says:

    Does anyone know of any streams of the games this weekend in the wpial showcase?

  1110. Buddy says:


    No, they shouldn’t avoid the PCL ( other than Prep). Like I said, they should go 10 and 0 ( SOL opponents only).

    Their toughest game will be Neshaminy. Didn’t see the CD scrimmage, heard NP 1st team dominated.

    Let the games begin!

  1111. FridayKnightLights says:


    The contract was up and not renewed. I somewhat agree with what you’re saying but at the same time I like the idea of avoiding the PCL teams until the semis. I would like to have seen them schedule a tougher non-league schedule though because I think this team can be very good this year. Other than Pennridge they should roll to the playoffs but they need to figure the defense out. Been their Achilles heal since ’16. How do you see the Knights this year? Any feedback on the CD scrimmage?

  1112. Buddy6 says:

    What is everyone thoughts on the Manheim central vs Cumberland valley game should be a great first game. I heard both teams are improved from last year and should go far in the playoffs in their classification.

  1113. Buddy says:

    I assume the North Penn/LaSalle contract is up. Unfortunate. NP will probably go 10 -0 ’cause they only play the SOL this year.

    What happened to playing one of the Downingtowns, or Coatesville or bring back LaSalle? I can understand not playing Prep.

    Only other private prep schools should play prep. Too dominate. Gotta play the best to become the best. Maybe next year I hope.

  1114. mcd 65 says:

    Imhoteps starting RB looks to be out for the PCC game Friday due to an injury vs. Wood .

  1115. Wilson4Ever says:

    I attended the Wilson WL/Coatsville scrimmage and thought it was very competitive. Both teams looked very strong but I would honestly have to give Wilson the slight edge overall because of their defense and because of a little more yardage on the ground and through the air. And the reason for that slight edge has to go to an X factor. And this kid that I called the X factor actually shocked me because I never expected him to be so flawless and cool under heavy pressure. He is the new kid on the block from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman the 6’1″ 216 lb. QB. He could make big waves throughout the state if he continues learning how to run that complex Wilson system and also if he keeps improving hinself.

  1116. Wilson4Ever says:

    I attended the Wilson WL/Coatsville scrimmage and thought the slight edge overall went to Wilson because of better defense and more plays being converted running and passing. And I also thought the big X factor that gave us that slight edge actually shocked me because of his cool and flawless control of the entire show. He was the new kid on the block from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman the 6’1″ 216 lb. QB. I’m sure he will be making some big waves through out the state if he continues to progress and learns how to run the complex Wilson system even more.

  1117. Kevin X says:

    Yeah, I saw that right after I submitted.

    Gotta love Olsommer. Will play anyone, anywhere, anytime!!

    Hope everyone has their schedules written in pencil. Schedules are gonna get ugly.

  1118. David Mika says:

    Delaware Valley picked up Gateway…

  1119. Kevin X says:

    Well here we go….I guess it was inevitable. First Del Val cancelled their FLA trip (guessing more of a Florida/travel issue), now a few other local games cancelled as well. Probably also Phx-Ville and Shanahan next week. Maybe Great Valley can take a weekend trip up to the Poconos and play Del Val (if they are still looking for a game).

  1120. Kevin X says:

    @ Tweeter

    My bad. Maybe I should have been more specific. Yeah, I was only there for the final 40-45 minutes. Guess I didn’t witness the first teams.

  1121. Tweeter says:

    @kevinX I’m not sure what you you mean when you said “Looked like tho it was North Penn that just got off the bus after an early morning wake up call and 2 hour journey.” I guess you didn’t see the NP CD 1’s vs 1’s. NP pretty much could do whatever they wanted. CD did not score on their 1s while NP moved the ball and scored a couple times. You must of only saw the back-ups for NP.

  1122. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin x, I was referencing the Senior not the Soph QB. Teps D line was a big factor with their pass rush , so maybe they will improve vs other teams . I do agree that Soph has nice potential and could move up quickly with experience.

  1123. mark dodgson says:

    @ Helen i want to start by saying i was not at the Valley View Southern scrimmage. i was told that Valley view looked pretty good a far as not scoring was told they were working on a lot of stuff that not their strength. am sure southern has a great Team and will win states again but let play some games and not hand medals out over a scrimmage

  1124. The Joneses says:

    @KevinX- no he isn’t a McDevitt transfer he was there a freshman. Nice kid. He is a bit green, but I works a lot. I don’t believe he is going to be the starter. I am hearing the senior will start this year and he will get the reigns next year. I hope he gets a shot at it. Prep didn’t give up point to DeMatha. I don’t know what that means for Tep and Roman playing them this year.

  1125. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin x, i looked up Imhoteps squad and they have 7 players at 300 lbs or greater and currently have 14 players with Division 1 offers. That is unreal .

  1126. Scott G. Hagy says:

    For some highlights of the Wilson/Coatesville scrimmage check out Mike

  1127. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Like you, I ended up doing a two a day yesterday as well. Jumped over to North Penn for the latter half of the NP/CD get together. Honestly, I was more interested in checking out the new rebuilt Crawford Stadium. Looking good to formerly christen the facility this Friday. Kudos to Central Dauphin. They must been up with the roosters for a two hour or so trip to Lansdale for a 9:30a scrimmage. Looked like tho it was North Penn that just got off the bus after an early morning wake up call and 2 hour journey.

    From there took a drive down Sumneytown Pike to Upper Dub. You sound like you weren’t overly impressed with the Wood pass game. I thought #10 looked pretty good for Wood at QB. I got curious and had to do some research afterwards, and he is a 6’5″ sophomore. Don’t know if he is one of the McDevitt transfers of not. Maybe a little green, but can’t see him not improving over the course of the season.

  1128. Why go says:

    Why go to a scrimmage? Imotep won the state title already and may not give up a point all year and southern is the best southern team ever and if they give up any points they don’t matter because they didn’t try on that play. My season is set

  1129. mcd 65 says:

    @ LOL, So is that all you have to offer ?? What scrimmage did you go to and what FACTS did you give us .Its easy to criticize others opinions ,but at least we try to offer input to something we like.

    @ Kevin, You were right for sure about Teps defense .They are the real deal.

  1130. Lol says:

    You only saw a few series of a scrimmage and Imhotep can’t be beat this year, lol. Southern scrimmaged valley view and they threw an int. And didn’t try so it doesn’t really count, lol. You people are insane. What ever happened to just stating facts on things and not giving an outlandish opinion.

  1131. mcd 65 says:

    Roman is the real deal this year. They looked good today vs CB West. Roman is athletic and has very good size . I liked the way they moved the ball both on the ground and through the air. Their dual threat QB makes plays . West has a nice squad and appears to be well coached .but imo Ithey were over matched.

    I saw several series between Wood and Imhotep. Wood has a solid defense with some very good talent. Their weakness appeared to be the passing game . Imhotep is huge and extremely athletic on both sides of the ball. That team can only lose if they beat themselves. I thought they looked like a college team.

  1132. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Actually, fact is, Wilson showed better in the scrimmage against Coatesville. Had more yardage and looked better defensively overall.

  1133. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Actually, Wilson had the upper hand against Coatesville. Definitely had more yardage and was better defensively.

  1134. Helen Ann Long says:

    Just got back from the Southern/Valley View scrimmage and if you thought the Southern team with Julian Fleming was a once in a lifetime team, think again. Valley View’s offense did not score and the only points they got was from an interception that Southern did not even try to defend. Not saying Valley View is not a good football team but they were not up to the task today. Wishing them well the rest of the season. Berwick is in for a long night this Friday.

  1135. EmanD3 says:

    Coatesville’s first team handled WWL, fairly easy, on both sides of the ball today.I know its only a scrimmage, but WWL OL was overmatched. Their OL was a concern this year with only one returning starter. Coatesville O has some weapons as well. Be curious to see how WWL holds up next Friday against CD in their home opener. CD is loaded as well.

  1136. mcd 65 says:

    Kevin, Woods defense is really good also.

  1137. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd 65:

    Shame Imhotep and Wood don’t meet up in the regular season. They played a couple of really good ones in the D12 “AAA” playoffs a few years ago. I actually (not a big scrimmage guy) took myself down to their scrimmage two years ago (Ok, only for the second half) and to me ‘Tep just dominated that second half. I don’t think Wood made one first down that second half. Yet who goes on the win the 5A State championship……

    May find myself once again down @ Upper Dub Saturday if things fall right. Like I said, not a big scrimmage person, but that match-up may be just too juicy to pass up.