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2022 Football Forum

Written by: on Monday, January 7th, 2019. Follow David Mika on Twitter.


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2022 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams, and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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3,995 Responses to “2022 Football Forum”

  1. D11 Matt says:

    @Kevin, I guess as a D11 guy, I’m just used to d11 finding host schools. They even require dist championships to have a neutral site since 2018. I heard NL (I’m an alum) had a problem with steelton hosting the quarterfinals a week after they hosted the first round (2 home games on state playoffs). They didn’t have to even get on a bus until eastern final. And I heard they were not happy with the facilities. No showers available? For a state quarterfinals game, where NL had to travel an hour and 45 my minutes on a bus? It is what it is. However, starting at state quarterfinals, it should be neutral in football and basketball, and every sport for that matter.

  2. Irish1 says:

    @D11 Matt, I agree its not right for any of the sports at the state level. I think its even worse for basketball because the home court is really a big advantage just because of the crowds in a packed gym. Its a more intense atmosphere then football I think in most cases. For every year prior to covid they never had a problem finding neutral courts to host. I think they just said we did it that year lets just stick to it and the heck with fairness. Its just that some schools may not be able to make a run to states many years so seems like they should get a more level playing field.

  3. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Like Matt said, they do that for football as well. Don’t know about other team sports, guess I’ll pay attention this spring with baseball and lax. Why, my guess is simplicity and money. You have 192 basketball games being played over two days this weekend. I would think it would be much easier just saying if your the team on the top of the bracket for the first round, you can host if you have a PIAA suitable/approved gym/facility. Probably cheaper too not have to spend the time negotiating all these potential neutral sites and then compensating a school/district for the use. I personally have little problem with it. Yes, I’d like to see some better geographical common sense in these brackets, but maybe that is asking too much. Also would love to see a human element/selection committee type system to seed and select the teams (for football as well), but that is a delusional pipe dream. As far as Williamsport (D4 6A boys champ goes, ummmm, they are the only 6A school in D4. They were in a 6 team sub regional with D2, and they lost to D2 Scranton in that final, so they are actually a second seed out of 6 school regional playoff. Coatesville has to travel north to #1 seed Scranton. At least these games are on a Friday and Saturday, and not mid week like the round 2 games will be next week.

    @ Foleman

    True. There are 4 4A boys teams in D1, and only one with a winning record (12-10). Shanahan beat that 12-10 school (some charter school I never heard of) and got in. Love to see the PIAA implement a rule where a team has to have at least a .500 record to participate in states, even if you are a so called district champion, and this would go for all sports.

    @ Matt

    I disagree. I think a lot schools and school districts don’t want to be bothered or take the responsibility.

  4. D11 Matt says:


    It has been that way for football as well. They used to just let first round home team host, but last season they had state quarterfinals with home teams hosting. They say it’s because it’s hard to find neutral hosts. I find that untruthful. They find them for state semi finals.

  5. Irish1 says:

    @Kevin X, I know they played first round state playoff basketball games at schools home courts during the covid year,but I dont understand why they are still doing that. There is no way schools should get a home game once reaching the the state tournament. In 6A the district 4 champ has to play at Lower Merion and its the same with many of the other games. To me its just the PIAA taking the easy way out rather then having to come up with neutral courts like they used to prior to covid. Its just an unfair advantage for teams that shouldnt exist in the state tourney.

  6. Woahx says:

    Imhotep jus got the best QB FRESHMEN IN THE NATION ( JOE MCLEISH ) jus committed to Imhotep from 8th grade kid had a Michigan offer in 7th Grade crazy how Imhotep keeps collecting talent. Zahir Mathis #6 Junior in the nation DE. I know Imhotep doesn’t finishes its season but boy do they send kids D1 that place is a factory for D1 talent.

  7. foleman says:

    KevinX, I’m thinking that most of the teams with losing records that are participating in the playoffs are playing due to the fact that their are very few small schools in the District. In District 1, the majority of schools are 6A and 5a. Only a handful of 4A Schools in District 1 and Shanahan had to play many schools that were much larger Class wise.

  8. foleman says:

    J.D. Okuniewski is named the new Head Coach at Daniel Boone. Looks like Another Good Ol Boy hire by the Boone Administration. Okunieski’s dad was involved in the program for many years and coached locally at Exeter. JD is a former Boone football player and teaches at the High School. I would love to know how many applicants interviewed for the job. Boone has some talent returning so JD should get off to a good start next year.

  9. Kevin X says:

    Very quiet around here. Since that is the case, I will take some liberties and dust off my football on-line ticketing and playoff rants and direct them to PA high school basketball. State playoffs in boys and girls hoops start this weekend. And once again, tickets for all games, all rounds, will be available on-line only. I bit the bullet (are you still allowed to use that saying??) last fall, and pulled the trigger (and that one??) and got tix on-line for a few football games, mostly D1 6A playoff games. And yes, it was painless enough and it worked out fine, but I still held my nose firmly while plugging in my credit card info and hitting the submit icon. The fun thing with basketball is, that for any first round game (not championship games mind you) this weekend, a single game will cost you, out the door, nearly $10. Inflation or greed?? But I’m sure that hard earned money will be well invested to see teams such as the ones below in action with the potential for some instant classics in the games that they are involved in:

    7-17 Nativity BVM (A girls)
    8-16 Weatherly (A girls)
    10-14 Jenkintown (A girls)
    5-18 Jamestown (A girls)
    8-16 Lancaster Mennonite (AA girls)
    3-7 Belmont Charter (AA girls)
    8-7 Mast II (AA girls)
    8-12 Pickett Mastery (AAA girls)
    12-14 Clairton (AA boys)
    9-13 String Theory (AAA boys) (cool name tho)
    10-14 Bedford (AAA boys)
    9-15 Bishop Shanahan (AAAA boys) (who are playing 9-10 Audenried, so at least the equal mediocrity should make it competitive)


    Yet the defending 6A girls state champs, Plymouth Whitemarsh (23-4, I think), are not involved because they picked a bad time to loose 2 of their 4 games this year, the last two they played as they played themselves out of the D1 playback bracket. But that’s OK, as we get to see 15-12 Garnet Valley out of D1 6A instead. And I’m sure many will have no love loss for seeing a St. Joe Prep team not making the state playoffs, but they may just be a top 10-15 boys team in 6A in the state this year, but, hey, that’s the way District 12 decides their state reps (it’s a Philly thing), without a true district playoff. So we get to see Central out of the D12 PPL instead.

    Enjoy the next 3 weeks of PA high school hoops playoffs. Please choose your first round games wisely, I know I will. Once the participation trophies are handed out this weekend, it should actually be a very good tourney going forward.

  10. NickS says:

    @foleman Boyertown isn’t the only place with dirty politics running the football program. Pennridge ousted their HC after an extremely late hire and a five-month season. AD there doesn’t have a very good track record. The same type of scenario – kids vouched for him, the guy was a long-time teacher there, etc. They just board-approved the next guy last night…I wonder how long he’ll have on the job. Why would anyone want to coach high school sports?

  11. foleman says:

    Justin Konnick is being pushed out after 1 year as Boyertown’s Head Football Coach. The guy breathed life into an underperforming dead in the water 6A football program and the kids loved him. I have no idea what he did that the school board and AD want him out. He received over 1,000 positive comments on Nothing surprises me about this, the politics that go on in Boyertown has been going on for decades. Their AD is not getting a lot of support from the Boyertown fanbase over this.

  12. Irish1 says:

    PJP opening the season on the road at Chambersburg High instead of LC followed by Ryan, West Philly, and Judge

  13. Harry says:

    Here are the new rules for 2023 high school football: Biggest change is that fouls behind the LOS (think holding) will now be enforced from the previous spot (like college and pro).

    Clarified That Towels Do Not Have To Be The Same Solid Color For Each Player [1-5-3a(5)a 4, 5 (NEW)]
    Player towels may contain one manufacturer’s logo and/or one school logo neither exceeding 2¼ square
    inches. Towels must be a solid color but now do not have to be the same solid color for each player. Towels
    may not be ball- or penalty-flag colored.

    Clarified When A Player Is Inbounds After Being Out of Bounds [2-29-1]
    This change clarifies when a player is inbounds after being out of bounds. There is no change to any foul or
    subsequent penalty provisions, or any rules related to illegal participation or the provisions regarding eligibility
    to catch a pass.

    Added A List Of Criteria To Help Identify Players Who Should Be Defined As Defenseless Receivers [2-32-
    16d, 9-4-3g]
    This change adds to the list of criteria to help identify players who should be defined as defenseless receivers
    related to application of unnecessary or excessive contact. This clarification should help game officials and
    coaches by defining allowable contact against defenseless receivers.

    Intentional Grounding Exception Changed [7-5-2 EXCEPTION 2a, c (NEW)]
    This change permits the exception for intentional grounding to the first and only player to possess the ball
    after the snap ends.

    Removed “Intentional” From Pass Interference in TABLE 7-5 [TABLE 7-5(2)c (DELETE), 7-5 PENALTY]
    By removing “intentional” from pass interference, this change puts the rule in line with how it is already
    enforced which is a 15-yard penalty.

    Changes In Basic Spot Penalty Enforcement [10-4, 6]
    This change restructures and clarifies the amendments to Rule 10 to eliminate the excessive penalty
    enforcements for offensive fouls that occur behind the line of scrimmage. This revision stipulates the basic
    spot for enforcement of fouls behind the line of scrimmage is the previous spot rather than the spot of the
    foul. Current penalties for illegal kicking, batting and participation fouls, and provisions for offensive fouls
    occurring in the end zone that may result in a safety remain intact

  14. ScottyB says:

    Perk Valley 2023 non-conference schedule:

    Week 0 – @ Chester
    Week 1 – @ Downingtown West
    Week 2 – vs. Smyrna (DE) – Finished 12-1 in 2022
    Week 3 – vs, Cheltenham

  15. Irish1 says:

    @foleman, no I didn’t know about any transfere, that is big news .Adding a division one recruit to a team already bringing back alot is huge. @ Kevin X ..I think one reason PJP and Shanahan haven’t played may be since they are both 4a schools and don’t want to possibly end up with a rematch in the playoffs. Scheduling these days is hard to figure out sometimes. Sadly I think the Turkey day games are just a memory.It would be a good matchup.

  16. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1 and Foleman

    Do you guys know why PJPII and Bishop Shanahan never hook up in the regular season?? Seems like such a natural rivalry. Maybe even a future Thanksgiving day match-up.

  17. Foleman says:

    Irish 1, I’m hearing that PJP got a big time transfer from Wood, it has to be offensive tackle Kevin Heywood, who used to live in Pottstown, I guess his family moved back to the area. My niece said the transfer is really tall, Heywood is 6’7 so he fits the description, Penn State is recruiting him hard.

  18. Irish1 says:

    PJP’s non conference schedule next year Lansdale Catholic, Arch Ryan, West Philly, and Judge. Would have liked to see one or two suburban teams on there for a little variety,but being a 4A school Im sure its not easy getting bigger public schools on the schedule, since everyone wants to build up playoff points. Interesting that every home game except one listed as 7pm start time. I know the school has a campaign to raise money for lights, hope this means its going well.

  19. Jeff H. says:

    As a follow-up to my prior post a quick google search that took about 5 seconds shows that over 98% of the student body at Westinghouse HS is minority, with over 93% being African American. Now maybe some of you SCA supporters and apologists will understand why many of the rest of us thought the “Whip Westinghouse” sign was in bad taste. Notice I did not say it was racist, others may have made that comment, but accusing someone or something of being racist is thrown around so frequently today it’s lost some of its meaning, just like Peter Pulisky falsely accused me.

  20. Jeff H. says:

    @Peter Pulisky – I only stated facts, Westinghouse is an inter city school in a poor minority neighbor that is majority African American, how is reporting the facts a stereotype? I never put them down in any way, they had an excellent season and in prior posts I complimented the coach and kids on a great year, I saw their last 2 games in person against Farrell and Steel Valley and was rooting for them to win, like much of the rest of the state, so please explain to me how that is racist? Are you implying a “Whip Westinghouse” sign with a drawing of a bullwhip was not in bad taste given SCA was playing a team primarily of African American student athletes? My point is it wouldn’t have taken too much research to find out the team SCA was playing had mostly African American players, so please spare me your righteousness.

  21. Kmac says:

    @ D2 Fan

    Thank you for your kind comment on my article. The purpose of it was exactly what you suggest, to promote thought and discussion on the issues. Thanks again.

  22. D2 Fan says:

    @ Brian

    That’s been the way I see Berwick. Government is more Columbia County, & associates that direction. Although, I do partially associate it with Luzerne via the zip code.

    I will admit, It’s very interesting to me that they play in District 2, & in the WVC, especially since it likely makes logistical sense to play in District 4 & the Heartland. I’d be curious to see how they’d fare in the league. Speaking of which, I think Northwest Area made a great decision moving to District 4, from a logistics standpoint. They’re so small of a school for the WVC, so I thought it was a smart decision on their end. Northern Tier & that other Mid-Penn league seem to be working out just fine for them.

    @ Jeff H

    Yeah, I wasn’t even around for those titles. Didn’t think of them as a prior powerhouse. I don’t think I know a lot about HS basketball before 2000 outside of my local stuff, the Kobe years, Chester’s run, & the Carbondale/George Republic upset. I’m not as much of a PIAA historian, but always curious to learn more about that stuff.


    We must be! Haha. I used to collect a bunch of atlases & maps from across the country. I still collect a few from time to time. You can’t go wrong with a good ol’ fashioned truck atlas.

    Also @KMac,

    What a great article you wrote about the playoffs! I might have a proposal or two of my own for the whole playoff & districts dilemma. I might come up with something after Christmas on what I’d fix, because you’re sorta on the path of what I want to do.

  23. Peter pulisky says:

    @ Jeff H. You literally insisted that a inner city impoverished district is typically made up of primarily african americans. That is not only a terrible stereotype but far more racist than anything sca ever did. Stereotypes are why racism wont die. Keep feeding it fool. Dont put them down because they are inner city and impoverished. They are people too. How dare you make that comparison to african americans.

  24. Brian says:

    @ Brian – let’s have St Joes Prep move to inter ac because they win so much but when SCA does, no big deal.

    Can’t have it both wins when it comes to winning

  25. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Might as well weigh in here…
    The righteous indignation toward that Southern sign is contrived and misplaced, and falls under the category of “let’s find something to complain of bc well, that’s where we are now as a society.” Optics, to quote @WPIALGuy, are exactly what you choose to perceive based upon your pre-conceived baggage, bias and filter you bring to the sign. I wholeheartedly do not believe that the assumedly 16 year-old girl who created that sign was scheming “gee, how can I most effectively marginalize and oppress the typical Westinghouse kid with my super-sneaky words of hate?!” Really now, @WPIALGuy, do you honestly believe that was her intent?! If you do, then I absolutely feel sorry for you. Maybe there is no hope for us collectively as representatives of the human condition. Me? I choose to feel otherwise. Back in our day, I recall cheerleaders making little candy bar pins for us that said things like “Whip the Whippets” “Scalp the Indians” Cage the Panthers” and yes, even, god forbid, “Cage the Black Panthers.” I can assure you that in my admittedly pretty much predominantly Caucasian world, I was NOT sitting in 6th period Trig, wondering how my little sign was going to hurt/opress/marginalize my opponent. I was just nervous about how I would measure up against the opposing team’s feisty and talented point guard. Point being, a kid made that sign. She was not thinking of the admittedly horrific traits of the Confederacy and the history of the Reconstructionist South when she, yes possibly thoughtlessly wrote “Southern State of Mind.” And if you think she was, well then again, I kinda feel sorry for you. And to @814fball (aka Sour Grapes) Really, dude? Suspend the WHOLE program because of the admittedly stupid TikTok video?!? I dont know those 2 boys (yes, BOYS), but I can imagine they’re feeling pretty ashamed right about now, and are deeply embarassed by their actions. Maybe I’m being too pollyanna-ish right now, but I’m guessing they are learning the right lesson to be learned in this situation. I guess you’ve never done a stupid, thoughtless action in your teenage life, right?! You were always nice and thoughtful to everyone, right?! Never made fun of anyone when you were 16 or 17, right?! If you proclaim such on this site, well then I’m thinking ol’ Margaret has a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge to sell our readers…Everyone just take a breath, and then exhale. Jeez, we’re talking about KIDS…lids, like we (sometimes yes, stupidly) were once upon a time…Sorry for rambling; thank you for listening. Now bring on the Hoops Season!
    PS: @Jeff, do you remember that Central Columbia team that won the 81 AA title? One of the best ever, to my now admittedly fading recall.

  26. Foleman says:

    Rob Flowers is out at Daniel Boone. Flowers had a 17-29 record in 5 seasons which included 2 winning seasons, they were 2-8 this year. The kids loved Coach Flowers but they lost their share of close games. Daniel Boone has been mostly a doormat in football for as long as I can remember, they had one good run under Coach Dave Bodolus 15 years ago, they were also a 6A program at one time and now are at 4A with the school population dropping every year. I believe the Boone administration thinks they can return to the Bodolus years, that’s a pipe dream.

  27. Jeff H. says:

    @TigerAum79 – please don’t insult our intelligence, we know the definition of alliteration, the fact is the “Whip Westinghouse” sign was clearly in poor taste and the adults should have realized that and never put it up in the first place, I won’t go so far as to say racist, but no doubt in poor taste, And common sense says an inner city school in a poor, minority neighborhood is going to be primarily made up of African American players, so I’m not buying it that the folks in Southern Columbia didn’t know the makeup of the team they were playing.

    With that being said it is a shame all we’re talking about are the racial overtones and not the game itself, because it was an excellent high school football game, intense, physical, and played the way the game should be played. I agree the SCA offensive line wore down a very good defense in the 2nd half. I knew Braeden Wisloski was a very good player, but he’s better than I thought and put on one heck of a performance, it’s special players like him who put a very good team over the top, you could say the exact same thing about Ryan Palmieri of Pine Richland, those were the 2 individual performances who stood out to me over the weekend.

  28. Jeff H. says:

    @ D2 – Uniontown’s last state basketball title came in 1981, they also won state titles in 1925,1962 and 1964, they have won 8 WPIAL titles, the most recent in 2002, they did make it to the PIAA finals that year but lost to Harrisburg 69-82 before a sold out crowd at Hershey Park Arena, they also lost in the 2000 finals to Chester.

  29. Brian says:

    @Ryan I think you miss the point that both of those schools are putting transfer students on their teams. SCA doesn’t move up because they’re playing in the class they belong. I’m going to throw another one out at you that you might also not like, but they actually might technically be a A team by numbers. SCA counts the Millville boys numbers in with their numbers because of a student that participates in another sport (not on the football team). However, once you allow one kid from another school, you need to count all of their enrollment. So, more than likely, SCA is already playing up by playing AA. Do you really think AAA was that much better than AA this year or even most years? What is your reasoning to move them up? Are you just going to keep moving them up until they lose? What lesson are you trying to teach by making them play schools with much larger enrollments and who also pull kids from other geographic regions? They work hard all year long to be successful. I’d argue that individually there were more talented teams this year in AA, but SCA just worked harder to win. I’m not sure why them having a harder schedule throughout the year to prepare to compete in the class they belong in (or, most likely one above where they belong) is somehow hurting anyone. Please explain your intentions and what you think moving a team up is teaching these young men? It seems that the goal is just to see them lose. If they win at AAA, I guess that means they keep moving up? You realize there really are no AAAA teams within a a reasonable driving distance from the farm country that is SCA I hope.

  30. Ryan says:


    That is crazy to say they didn’t the race of the Westinghouse team.

    I understand you’re from SCA, so you will defend them but the comments that have been made are silly.

    Question is why Southern Columbia will play AAA teams and maybe a AAAA team during the regular season but won’t move up to play better competition. ALiquippa Imhotep but play up for better competition, yet SCA after winning 6 straight titles won’t.

  31. phillyboy says:

    @ TigerAum79 –Wow, didn’t know there was a vowel counterpart word for alliteration, right on.

    @ mcd 65 –Was actually wondering about SJP possibly playing IMG, Mater Dei, or Aquinas again because next year’s version might be the peak for this group, scary thought. So it’s not the time to hold back, if there’s ever a time to schedule the absolute best, this may be it insofar as national championship ambitions are concerned. Btw, the game may be played at Ocean City? I assume it’s the NJ variety, not MD. That could make for a nice outing coupled with a Borgata buffet at AC.

    @D2 Fan –We’re kindred spirits, man, I’m a huge map nerd as well. Of course, Google maps is incredible, but to this day I still proudly use my giant Rand McNally trucker atlas where every page is laminated in conjunction with a big dollar store magnifying glass, lol.

  32. Brian says:

    @D2 Fan Being from the Columbia County area, I never thought of Berwick as being part of Luzerne. Technically they are part of Columbia County. In fact, commissioners for the county often are elected out of Berwick. I always think more Wilkes-Barre-Scranton area for Luzerne. Berwick has a different vibe to it than Luzerne, IMO.

  33. TigerAum79 says:

    @Wpialguy – The sign shown at a pep rally was a simple play on words. “Whip Westinghouse” . One of my best friends coaches the 7-8 grade team and he assures me the person who made the sign did so because the they wanted to use an “Alliteration” (Alliteration Definition = Alliteration is a literary device where each word in a string of words starts with the same consonant (as opposed to assonance, in which a vowel sound is repeated)). They likely did not even know the racial make-up of the Westinghouse team, let alone mean it in some racist way.

    The original twitter video made by the two 10 graders (non-starters) did not have any words at all on it. If you have any link, you can see their mouths don’t even speak. Somebody took it and dubbed speech over it. WHO did this – who can tell in this internet day and age? It was not the SCA team.

    Look at any of the comments made by the SCA starters and posted in the media after the game. They all said that Westinghouse played harder and hit harder than any team they faced all year. So please, stop the ridiculous banter. There was respect all around.

    If Westinghouse’s QB had a better day and hit some of those long balls, things would have been different. But in the end it was the play of SCA’s O-Line that made all the difference. They sustained blocks just a bit longer in the second half.

  34. D2 Fan says:

    @ Jeff H

    Yeah, I noticed that it’s fairly split between the two counties. I didn’t realize most people out west considered Belle Vernon to be more Westmoreland. I’m a big map nerd, so that sorta interested me a bit.

    It’s strange how that happens. Then again, PA is so unique with school districts. It doesn’t completely fall in the same umbrella as other states, like NY or OH where it feels like the boundaries aren’t 100% in the townships, or down south where every county is its own district. Although, we have that, to some extent, with the small counties (Forest, Cameron, Sullivan, Mifflin, & Juniata. That doesn’t include Philly. That doesn’t include Philly, which is just a city county).

    Since I’m on the subject: Curious to know where you guys would consider Berwick to be. It’s a D2 school with a Luzerne/Columbia zip code. I’d lean more Columbia than Luzerne, but I’m curious if others liken it to the latter.

    I didn’t know Uniontown was a basketball power. It must’ve been a bit before I was born, because I don’t remember ever seeing them make a run in my lifetime. I probably would’ve remembered a late 2000s/2010s run.

  35. Colin says:

    Hey never too early to look ahead to next year. So we know St Joe Prep will be very good next season along with some of the usual suspects. Who else out there looks like maybe they could make a run? Maybe a team that was a little young this year but returns a lot a guys next year and could make a run. One team im keeping an eye on is Westinghouse. Wanna see if they can keep things going next season after a great run to the champ game. Another is NG. It seems like they have a few younger players would could make an impact next season. …fire away…would like to hear some peoples thoughts

  36. Jeff H. says:

    @D2 Fan – the Belle Vernon school district straddles Westmoreland/Fayette counties, about half the district is in each county, the high school and football field are in Westmoreland County, so most people in Western PA consider them a Westmoreland County school and not Fayette. You’re right no Fayette county school has ever won a PIAA football title, however, Uniontown has won 4 PIAA basketball titles and has a very rich basketball tradition. Fayette County is pretty rural, so there’s not very many districts in the county, I think less than 10 total.

  37. mcd 65 says:

    I understand St Joe Prep is opening with IMG academy in Ocean City next year. I see Malvern Prep is looking for games and I thought it would be a dandy double header if Malvern were to play one of the North Jersey schools like Bergan Catholic or Don Boscoe Prep.

  38. 610 says:


    You’re right, Albie built something good at Tep but he left for some reasons I don’t know about. Everywhere he goes, he wins.

    Alot of parents can’t afford or basically don’t want to pay for high school, so they send their kids to public/charter schools for free. If NG was free or let’s say half the costs of what it is now, they’ll be loaded every year.

    And NG isn’t a football school, they’re Basketball program gets all the attention. There’s good athletes that goes to Northeast, I’m surprised they didn’t come to NG. Again, MONEY. I think financial aid (FACTS) should shell out more money to students.

  39. Foleman says:

    610, why do all of these great players go to TEP vs NG? If its economics, I can understand, however, Albie won a State Championship at TEP while the rest of Coaches hired after Albie left choke every year. NG better school, Albie better coach, if he could get 1/4 of the players that matriculate to TEP to play for NG they would win multiple state championships.

  40. Ed says:

    814fball, that sign wasn’t at the school. That sign was at a community pep rally and had nothing to do with the school. The video was stupid and should have not been made, that kid will be held accountable.

    The sign however, is being made out to be more than it is. No difference than when they play shamokin and say scalp the indians.

  41. Dennis says:

    @814fball Let’s see now you cannot say “Whip Westinghouse” on a banner. And you absolutely cannot say “Beat Westinghouse” on a banner. God forbid you cannot say “Cage the Bulldogs”.on a banner either. Not much you can say on a banner. Maybe PIAA should ban all banners! Let’s not also forget the Westinghouse fans chanting during the national anthem with hats on.Oh I forgot that is an expression of freedom of speech which is OK. Where does this end. It starts with the parents in the stands not the kids on the field.

  42. 610 says:


    Having Battle is a plus but we could’ve of beat BV without him. A lot of nerves, MISTAKES were made offensively. We move on, learn from it and now they’re getting ready for 7on7 season.

  43. 610 says:


    There were cops, in and outside the stadium. Everyone was tailgating at 10am, cops were cool, they knew what were in our cups. No metal detectors or some type of security where someone with a wand is checking people coming in the stadium. Like I said, the stadium is nice. Is that where the HS Championships going to be for now on? I wish our game was at night.

  44. Brian says:

    @814fball You’re a bit late to this conversation, obviously. If you look back, we’ve already figured out that the sign was hung at a community pep rally, not at the school and that it was removed immediately once a parent decided it might be in bad taste. They use alliteration in all their signs and Westinghouse later said they also thought “Wreck Westinghouse” was in poor taste, as well as one they use at all major events that refers to winning as a Southern way of life. It has nothing to do with racism or the deep South, but how things are done at Southern Columbia. Westinghouse didn’t know about any of that prior to the game, so screaming F U N****** at SCA sidelines was not in retaliation for something they knew nothing about.

    You also missed the part where there was obviously a TikTok thing going around because numerous teams made similar videos as those two boys at Southern. In the case of the others, it was their whole team, not just two bench warmers. Those two bench warmers have gotten punished for their actions by the coach, but will anything be done to the members of all the other teams? These two underclassmen were following what starters at other teams were doing because they probably thought it was the cool thing to do. What punishment did those that are supposed to be role models get for their videos? The N word used in rap songs is a whole other discussion, but these kids think in songs it’s acceptable because it’s become ordinary to them. So far, I’ve heard of no other teams getting punished except SCA’s two kids. You want to punish the whole program for the actions of two underclassmen that didn’t play? Seems you might want to re-evaluate what you have against the rest of the program. Do you punish everyone in a group if just a few who do something wrong?

    I accused Westinghouse of blowing this out of proportion in order to try to do exactly what you seem to want, which is to change the outcome of the game. They probably have seen the similar videos. They also were then trying to say that SCA was all racist, down to a kid in a black Southern coat and signs that had no racial connotations. They’re grasping at straws because they have free time to divert their energy to excuses after losing. They spent a great deal of time on social media taunting before the game and the only racial slur that anyone remembers during the game on either side came from their sidelines, not SCA’s. Should we assume that everyone at Westinghouse is racially biased against white people and suspend their team based on that? Perhaps they’re too focused on race if they felt the need to call a predominantly white team the N word and now think everything is about race when clearly it wasn’t intended to be on SCA’s side.

  45. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – the time to beat SJP is when they are young and a great, senior dominated team comes along, like Lebo last year and PR in 2017, both of those years they were young after graduating a tremendous senior class in 2016 (Swift, etc.) and 2020 (McCord, Harrison Jr., etc.) No one is going to touch SJP next year with their returning starters, maybe in 2024 there will be a team that emerges that can challenge them when their current junior class graduates, but I expect SJP to win 4 out of every 5 state titles for the foreseeable future, they have of course won 7 of the last 10, and no reason to think that type of dominance won’t continue.

    With that being said it will be very interesting to see who PCC hires as their next coach, because if they get the right guy and he brings in the right staff I think they can challenge and perhaps beat SJP in some years.

  46. Jeff H. says:

    @610 – BV was the consensus preseason #1 because the WPIAL has dominated 3A since the move to 6 classes, and BV was clearly the best 3A team in the WPIAL when they moved down from 4A. I said at the beginning of the season on this board Belle Vernon would win 3A when the question was posed about newcomers who would break through this year. I thought that was a great game, a real defensive struggle on both sides, and both teams played their hearts out. I figured it was going to be a one score game because BV does not have an offense that puts up lots of points against good defenses and NG certainly has a very good defense (the 2 games BV lost they scored 6 and 13 points against very good defenses in McKeesport and Penn Trafford). As you saw BV does have an excellent defense, to not allow a 2nd half touchdown since their 14-13 loss to PT in week three is incredible, and their goal line stand to preserve the win was legendary. That was the type of game where it was a shame either team had to lose. My question is why doesn’t NG have a kicker, couldn’t they recruit a kid from the soccer team to kick? The same issue caused Clairton a state title in 2014 against BG when they didn’t have a kicker and lost 19-18, after scoring 3 TDs and not converting any of the 2 point conversions.

  47. Wpialguy says:

    Don’t forget mount Lebanon just beat St. joes prep last year. I know it’ll be tough but it is possible to beat them

  48. Brian says:

    @610 How was the security for your game? For the 2A game, it definitely could have been improved. Unlike at Hershey where they kept the two sides apart, this venue often had them intermingling. There was not a metal detector like we had at Hershey and anything and everything could be brought into the game (saw alcohol and could smell weed at one point). There were probably more security guards outside and inside the game than at Hershey, but the restrooms and food vendors were all shared and there wasn’t really a security presence at either. I could see this going poorly with some of the animosity you see at some games. The field was beautiful, but not sure what they could do to fix some of those potential issues. I saw they brought some extra security from Pittsburgh schools, but I wasn’t sure if there was much for other games as well. I could definitely see the benefits of the separation that Hershey allows.

  49. Paul White says:

    I’m curious to know how many viewers watched it on PCN network. Unless your team ifrom home, there isn’t much incentive to travel when you can watch all 6 games for 15 bucks from home.
    The 5A numbers do and and don’t surprise me. The Pine Richland side looked filled but Tep doesn’t have a huge following. They always bring just 2-3 hundred.

  50. 814fball says:


    did you happen to see the sign that was hung in the Southern Columbia gym for their pre-game pep rally? You should probably look into that before accusing Westinghouse of anything. That combined with the racist tiktok made by a couple SC players and the PIAA called for an internal investigation — I think much more needs to happen because the sign at pep rally was EGREGIOUS and DISGUSTING. Suspend their program.

  51. Kevin X says:

    Attendance figs:

    1A 2,139
    2A 2,416
    3A 1,676
    4A 3,769
    5A 1,717
    6A 4,012

    15,729 total for the 3 days

  52. The Joneses says:

    @JCo I think your idea is great in theory. I would say based on the sentiment of people on this site and what we have seen this year, teams would opt out of the “bowl game” with SJP and happy to say they won state. To me in theory is the same as winning their district, city etc. You proved your the best from you locale, but not the best in the state. The bowl would be designed to say who is the best in your state at 6A, which is what the state championship game is.

    Interestingly enough I saw someone on twitter state he thinks SC can beat SJP.. WOW. So if we have that with 1A School, I can imagine what 6A would be like without the actual game.

    I must say the Harrisburg band, cheer leaders and flag carrier where rocking, cheering the entire night. WELL DONE!

    GV put on quite the show for the state playoffs. Must better game experience than Hershey. WELL DONE!

  53. mcd 65 says:

    @610, If Battle played NG would have won no doubt IMO.

  54. 78CatFan says:

    Just my take on the Southern Columbia/ Westinghouse game. It was one of the best, hardest fought games I believe I have ever seen. Both teams left it ALL ON THE FIELD. The emotional energy was electric and intense, not because as one young lady on Twitter claims was racially driven, but because the Tigers were not heavy favorites as in previous years. I too was a bit complacent in recent years. But this year’s version of the Tigers went into this game against a Westinghouse team that seemed to have everything going for them, as underdogs. Donta Green is an excellent head coach and will only improve with experience, as has Jim Roth. My father, wife, grandson and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

  55. JCo says:

    Two items for thought:

    SJP’s game against La Salle was their toughest test of the playoffs. You think La Salle prefers going out early? Or would they prefer having a chance to test themselves against other privates in eastern PA and not face SJP until a later round?

    Parkland probably gave SJP their toughest test of any public. They might have been the best public in the state. Would a game between Harrisburg and Parkland have been more interesting than the game between Harrisburg and SJP? I’d say probably. Then whoever wins that can play SJP in a bowl game, so we know for a fact both teams are getting their best test. I can see both those games being draws.

    Again, this is not about making things easier for public teams. This is about making Pennsylvania football better overall.

  56. 610 says:

    My take on the game between NG vs BV. I hope you guys l believe in constructive criticism.

    -Congrats to BV, hell of a stop on the goal line. I like games that come down to the end.
    -I like the Stadium
    -Why was BV the consensus #1 in the beginning of the year, what is it about them that made everyone on here thinking they were going to blow out NG? Well alot yall had us losing every playoff game.
    -NG kept Martin in check, I believe he had and I’m being nice, probably between 70-80 yds rushing and receiving combined with a TD.
    -NG play calling wasn’t good, I think the coach should’ve of kept pounding the ball up the middle because BV couldn’t stop it. He got away from what was working. NG’s offense was only clicking on the last drive of the game
    -QB threw 3 interceptions in the first half. Coming into the game, he only threw 4 INTs all year. BV didn’t convert any points from the turnovers.
    -I don’t know why NG didn’t have someone spy on Martin on the drive BV scored a TD. It look like the same play Wyomissing did to put them in the lead in our semifinal game.
    -As for BV QB, anytime he dropped back, he only looked for Martin.
    -NG offense only had 1 possession in the 3rd quarter. BV did a good job of using the clock.
    -The people at the game, watching on a stream at home and college coaches got a treat. It was a good game
    -I spoke to the QB after the game and he took it hard because he wanted to do it for the Senior class. I told him that the stance at the goal line didn’t cause us to lose, there were alot of factors that costs us the game.
    -Hopefully we see BV again next year.

  57. Foleman says:

    District 3 could put an all-star team of the best 6A players in the region and they still would not beat St. Joe Prep. 37 players on Harrisburg says it all. Northeast, who Prep played in the State playoffs had even less and the school has 3,600 kids in the school. I read that in 1970 Pa had 75,000 HS football players, today 25,000 players, The football talent level and participation in Pa is way down and the top players are headed to winning programs. I really can’t blame them for going to the Prep, Prep’s academics are top notch. I don’t see the 6A Pubs challenging Prep in the near future.

  58. Wpialguy says:

    Now it looks like Belle Vernon posted the exact same video on tik tok after their win. What do i know.. maybe kids are just unbelievably stupid nowadays. Social media, the downfall of society.

  59. Margaret says:

    If westinghouse would have won there would be nothing. Its ok to lose gracefully. Not paying attention to the national anthem to means you dont care about this country so why would all the rest of the things in this beautiful country pertain to you. You disrespect the most sacred thing in this country please dont cry disrespect elsewhere

  60. Brian says:

    @WpialGuy the more I learn, the more this looks like something made out of nothing and blown out of proportion. The video is actually using a song multiple other teams used after winning in TikTok videos. If you’re going to punish the two kids who didn’t even play in the game for mimicking older kids, you need to punish the ones they’re imitating too. In the other videos it’s actually starting players, not bench warmers.

    The N word was used at the game, but not by SCA. A member of the National Guard came out to not only talk about the disrespect during the National Anthem, but to say he heard the Westinghouse side scream FU N***** towards the SCA side. You can’t claim afterwards you have a problem with the use of the word if you’re using it yourself as a taunt to the other side. SCA didn’t repeat this racial slur, but I don’t think you get a free pass to scream it at a bunch of white kids if you want to keep race out of the picture.

    Since the original complaint, they’ve gone on to say that sign, plus one that said A Southern State of Mind (which SCA uses in games against white players and has nothing to do with racism), one that says Wreck Westinghouse and a picture of a cheerleader with a black “Southern” coat on all claiming they’re examples of racism. Some are calling for the game win to be given to Westinghouse. So, what’s the motive here?

    Kudos to their assistant coach who stated that nothing he heard from the field or his players during the game was about racial slurs being used on the field. Thankfully someone is being honest on that side.

    Still waiting to hear why this is a bigger deal than a threat of violence. Seems more like a ploy to try to steal a win they don’t deserve.

  61. BJ says:

    What a ballgame in 3A. The goal line stand of a lifetime by Belle Vernon to hold off Neumann to win the championship. Without a doubt the game of the weekend.

  62. Wpialguy says:

    Brian you are awfully defensive.
    1. They are not “my team”. I am reacting to things i saw on social media.
    2. I did not attend the game because frankly i live on the west side of the state and also work, so it is not to my liking the piaa even holds games during weekdays.
    3. I didn’t know about the national anthem.
    4. You need to understand the optics better. Whip Westinghouse may not seem bad, but when there’s an actual picture of the whip, and Westinghouse is majority black, and southern Columbia isn’t exactly the most diverse place, people will question.
    5. Obviously someone in the SC community took the original picture of the sign and posted it because how would anyone from Westinghouse or elsewhere even see the sign. If someone in the own community thought the sign was wrong it probably shouldn’t have been put up.
    6. The sign by itself might not have gained a reaction, but combined with the video and you have a clear argument.

  63. Ed says:

    I think the sign, I’m sure which was made by cheerleaders, wasn’t intended as a racist thing. The whip drawing maybe not a great idea though. Like when they play shamokin and say scalp the Indians, or club the seals when they play Selinsgrove. Whip westinghouse was a play on words that I really don’t think was intended in the way people are taking it. People are also taking issue with a sign that said “southern state of mind”. Saying it in conjunction with the other sign are clearly racist. It’s not, southern state of mind is something they’ve says for a long time. It implies a winning state of mind if that makes sense. Nothing racial.

    The tik tok video was pure stupidity. That kid screwed up. And he should be held accountable for that video.

  64. D2 Fan says:

    My observations on the remaining five games.

    Didn’t catch much of the Aliquippa game, but that was a tough loss for them. I didn’t think it would be a rout like that. Don’t be shocked if we see it become a trilogy next year, but the fan of parity in me would love a new face or two. I think Bishop McDevitt is returning a lot of players next year, so they may be primed for another run.

    Good victory for Steel-High. They should’ve blown out Union, based on the eye test (they’re the better team), but it was a lot closer than anyone else would’ve guessed. Still wish it was Northern Lehigh, because that would’ve been just as neat of a matchup. If it was Canton, it would’ve been intriguing for a grudge match.

    That Pine-Richland/Imhotep game was pretty good. Only caught the second half, though. I said earlier I the week how I trusted Pine-Richland in these kinds of matchups, & it showed. Palmieri might’ve had the best performance of championship weekend.

    I didn’t get around to watching the 3A final (yet), but from the looks of it, it seemed like a classic. Gotta say. Holding a team to a goal line stand that late into the game, at the goal line, is incredible stuff. Congrats to Belle Vernon.

    A question, if anyone can answer. Before anyone corrects me on semantics, I know the high school is in Westmoreland, but the zip code is Fayette, so I must ask: Is this the first state title in football for a Fayette County school. What about first title in anything? WPIAL faithful, correct me if I’m wrong.

    I don’t have much to say about 6A. Kinda wish they’d go down the IMG & St. Frances route, but the likelihood of that happening is the equivalent to six classes being removed. I wonder how much of a game Garnet Valley or even a Parkland would’ve made it if they made it. The world may never know. I’m more impressed that I got the right score for SJP. Just needed 10 more from the Cougs.

    Overall, every playoff game was intriguing this year. The 4A & 6A games being the more lackluster or the group. Not entirely surprised about that outcome. Private school teams are almost always too much for most public programs.

    Now the season is officially over in PA, save for any all-star games & awards that haven’t been done yet. Then again, the former is usually done in the spring, so it’s just accolades. Look on the bright side, we only have 258 days left until football season kicks off again in the Keystone State, but who’s really counting?

  65. Cobra01 says:

    The 3A champions post the exact same style video

  66. Brian says:

    @78CatFan I’ve now seen the video. It’s not first string players in it. It’s music in the background, not anything they say as they don’t say anything. Definitely dumb on their part, but I’m sure Roth is addressing it.
    I’ve also seen this being blown up by some at Westinghouse. A picture of an SCA cheerleader with her black cheer coat on is somehow proof she’s racist because it says Southern on the back. Are we supposed to now change the name of the school because they find it racist? Seems more like they’re deflecting after a week of hyping they could sleep through the game and still win. And yet we’re hearing about this while they’re keeping the threat silent. Where’s the priorities?

  67. NE PA says:

    The tiktok was a player from SCA with his hands in his face with laughing audio in the background and then he lifts his face up with a sign that says 2A state champs. And at the end of the video, it says “gotcha n word”. How stupid can you be to post something like that on social media?? These kids are ridiculous

  68. Kevin X says:

    I think Southern Columbia are just big Devo fans.

    Does this now mean that Downingtown West will have change their nickname??

    This is kind of reminding me of the PJPII GBB incident from a few years ago. Still waiting to see that video 🙂

  69. 78CatFan says:

    What’s the context of the TikTok video? Was it music being played?

  70. Brian says:

    @Ed I learned the sign wasn’t from the game nor the school. It was at a community pep rally and was removed immediately when discovered. The school can’t control everyone in the community’s actions. Catawissa actually used to be the state seat for the KKK, so to think an old racist still lives in the community would not be a far stretch. However, that certainly doesn’t mean the team itself is loaded with racists. You are correct that Roth would not let that slide. I have not seen a Tik Tok that was racist, but Roth definitely would have strict consequences. As I said before, one of their most beloved team members is black, so I can’t imagine they as a group would promote anything racist. I also read where the Westinghouse coach said that nothing racist was said on the field. I’d assume a racist group of kids would follow that up on the field, which leads me to believe this isn’t coming directly from team members.

  71. 78CatFan says:

    I can recall a sign back in the mid 70’s that read, “Whip the Whippets.” The Whippets were the team from Freeland, Pa, now part of Hazelton school district. No one batted an eye, nor should they. This is more “woke” bs. Folks upset at this banner probably would have found fault with Beat Bulldogs too. Stop creating issues where there’s none.

  72. Brian C says:

    My goodness now sca is racist because they had a banner that said whip Westinghouse with a whip. Oh no not that. Every week southern has banners that tailor to the school name or mascot. They’ve had trample the tornadoes but nobody thinks they’re going to actually trample over them with something. Smash the shamrocks for Trinity, nobody thinks that they’re really going to slap someone. Maul the marauders for BG. Nobody thinks they’re going to actually maul someone. It’s called use of alliteration and pumping your team up. As for Southern state of mind. That wasn’t just made up for Westinghouse. I mean they are the Southern Columbia Tigers and they have an exceptional state of mind when it comes to football mentality and has nothing to do with the song. That phrase has been used for years as has SOCO crazy but I guess they should be put in an institution since they’re crazy. Stop grasping at straws to take attention away from the fact that your team lost.The only people who are bringing up the race card are the ones who were expecting to come in and beat the pants off of southern and didn’t. Would you rather their sign say something like bulldoze the bulldogs or would you’ve been offended thinking they’re coming there with bulldozers? As for the video, yeah I’m not a fan of that. This race card stuff is for the birds.

  73. Ed says:

    @Brian. I seen pictures of the whip westinghouse sign. And I saw the tik tok video. The sign, although seems racist, may have been made by a kid that doesn’t know any better, but than how did it make it up on a wall? How did no adult see it and think it was in bad taste?

    The video there really is no excuse for. And if that kid is on the team, he needs removed and held accountable. It is true that we have freedom of speech and can say what we want, but it’s also true that words have consequences and these kids need to learn that.

    I do know that Roth hates ANY distraction at all to the goals of the team. And he won’t tolerate it.

  74. Dennis says:

    @Wpialguy Just wondering if you attended the Westinghouse Southern game? I watched it on PCN. I did hear the disrespect on the Westinghouse side during the Anthem. I lost all respect for the Westinghouse fans at that point also. In this case a few bad apple’s did spoiled the whole bunch. If there was any disrespect on the Southern side you can be sure it will be dealt with by Roth and the school administration.

  75. Ed says:

    The sca game was one again a testament to the coaching staff at sca. Over the years I’ve seen them beat teams with more talent so many times. Their team play and execution are second to none. Both those teams yesterday played their hearts out. Defenses came to play and were hitting fast and hard. Coaching won that game.

    Yes Wisloski is a great rb and Barnes compliments him well. But I think westinghouse had a more talented team. I think mca was more talented this year as well. Westinghouse has great team speed and that took away getting to the edge, but sca always has great line play and still opened holes in the middle for the rbs. If you want to beat sca, you need to utilize more than one good player, sca will negate your best player. Westinghouse tried too much with their qb and sca knew they would. All I heard leading up to this was how dominant and fast westinghouses defense was, but I don’t think people realized that sca’s was even better.

    Congratulations to both teams for getting to this game and both played a great game.

  76. Brian says:

    @Wpialguy And please send proof of what you saw to SCA. Their administration as well as Roth would take care of such behavior. I just doubt it happened. One of their most loved players is black. Why would they make posts and signs that would be hurtful to him? Surely someone has pictures if such a thing happened.

  77. Brian says:

    @Wpialguy Racial undertones? How is repeating the words they used in any way racial? Dude, you’re grasping at straws now because a team that supposedly couldn’t be beaten was pounded by SCA. I saw no sign. What I saw were a Westinghouse player getting into the face of Barnes at the coin toss and having to be removed by the officials. I saw classless fans cheering through a young lady trying to sing the National Anthem. I saw fans do a cheer that culminated in them giving the middle finger to the SCA sidelines. Prior this week some of the Westinghouse players seemed to make it their job to taunt SCA players on social media. Perhaps they should have spent more time practicing to handle smash mouth football. You can be sure Roth would discipline his players if there were any racist or unsportsmanlike conduct on their part. What is Westinghouse doing to fix the classless behavior we witnessed?

  78. Wpialguy says:

    The sign said “whip Westinghouse” with a picture of a whip drawn. Also there is a tik tok going around with the use of the N word. I didn’t hear about the national anthem stuff

  79. Colin says:

    Thru the 1st 4 games im not that surprised by who won. Each team was certainly capable of winning their respective games.

    1A Steel was the better team but Union was certainly scappy but it seemed so much of their game relied on the QB who was certainly good. Steel just had a few more players on their side.

    2A was maybe the most physical HS I’ve seen in a while. Both defenses were crunching bones out there. Gonna be a lot of sore players this morning.
    Credit to SC for sticking to their game plan. Westinghouse was very impressive. Definitely question their coach going for it in their own end so early.

    4a McD was very impressive. Certainly didn’t see them handling the Quips like that. The Quips RB not being 100% didnt help them for sure. That Mcd nose takle is a complete game wrecker.

    5a im at a complete loss to describe Imhotep. Ive never seen a team with so many superior athletes at so many positions continually come up short in the title game. They seemed powerless to defend anything PR was doing. PR just kept grinding. They were a pleasure to watch.

  80. Margaret says:

    Just looking at things if southern was in 3a this year they wouldnt have won 2a in my opinion.

  81. Foleman says:

    Roth’s Coaching won that game, he is the best in the business, what in the world was the Westinghouse Coach thinking going for it on 4th and 2 at their own 26? Too many HS Coaches are now trying to emulate Doug Petersons riverboat gambling style, I saw the the PJP coach do the same thing against Perkiomen Valley in the PAC 10 Championship and it probably lost the game for them. Newsflash for HS coaches, this isn’t the pros. Seen Southern Columbia many times, they run the Wing T to perfection, pound, pound, pound, their guards are fullbacks in disguise with all the trapping/pulling they do, they just wear down opposing defenses. Plus, look at SC’S players physique’s, I would hire their strength coach in a second. Roth said SC’S offseason training program is the most important part of his program.

    Palmieri? Pine Richland’s QB is one of those special HS players that make a good team great, he was fun to watch.

  82. sca fan says:


  83. Wpialguy says:

    Where’s the guy talking about Westinghouse going gangster now with obvious racial undertones??? Did you see the video or sign from southern Columbia after the game??? Classless and racist. For all the love you people give southern Columbia on this board and say such a great coac that guy is. Maybe he should teach his players respect and how to win with dignity.

  84. Margaret says:

    I think if southern didnt score those last two touchdowns they may have went to overtine or lost by a point or won by a point, but the game would have been much closer. The stadiium looked to have stands like the others and it seemed to be a 100 yard field so it had many of the same things, nice goal posts too.

  85. Hillbilly says:

    I would just like to put the transfer stuff aside and promote credit where it is due. If you grew up in the coal region and were a successful athlete it meant you were motivated and self determined…..period. a lot of those people come from this area. It is also known if your a driven self motivated person circa 30 years ago you likely moved away (5 miles) from the 3rd world coal region into a nice district (over the hill) both academics athletics. (15k for a row home vs 115k for a nice ranch house and some land in southern district) you can complain that it is recruiting all you want but the matter of fact is coach roth gets the best athletes because their motivated parents decades ago made something of themself and got out of poverty. He is a great coach but he also gets the best people out of those regions because they are motivated and determined. It is not recruiting. He lives the best of both worlds. However can you hardly blame the people who moved out of the coal towns to better themselves. Keep talking recruiting if you want but understand the economics and culture of the coal/farm region. The best make it out, some dont………
    Statistics dont lie thats why you see the successful names of years ago playing for southern.
    Its not recruiting, its what everyone would do if they could

  86. Brian C says:

    D2 fan. Southern would have no business being in 3A this year. They wouldn’t have even made it out of districts and many felt they wouldn’t even make it out of districts this year after they lost to mca in the regular season and would have to play them again in districts. Moving up in class because you keep winning doesn’t do justice in any way shape or form for competitive sports. It sends the message that if soMeone is too good they should move up so that teams not as good has a chance. Imagine when someone beats southern in the playoffs the magnitude of it will be. Southern moves up and loses its they’re not that good etc etc etc. the only way moving up should ever be an issue is with nonboundary boundary schools that can have anyone from anywhere go to their school. It’s not like southern dominated and mercy ruled they’re eat this year. The 15 point win today was much closer than the scoreboard and the mercy rule win against BG was misleading if you watched the game or were there. BG was driving to take the lead late 3rd and ended up having a fg block and their wheels fell off after that. They scrapped and clawed for this state title and proved doubters wrong To be the best you have to beat the best not force them to move up. That’s not beating the best that’s hoping someone else makes changes to a system so others to penalize success.

  87. Mike A. says:

    McDevitt scored and the Quips answered. The team traded a couple of possessions until McDevitt intercepted a pass and returned it inside to 10 midway through the 2nq quarter. They scored and then forced a fumble and scored again with 3 minutes left in the half to go up 20-6 at halftime. After that it was all Crusaders in the 3rd quarter as they built a 34-6 lead nearing the end of the 3rd quarter. The Quips were in real danger of being mercy ruled 41-6 until they intercepted a pass and returned it 55 yards for a TD with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter to make it 34-12. After that each team scored a TD for the final score. McDevitt had intercepted an overthrown pass and was in the red zone as time expired. McDevitt doubled the Quips yardage, 278-140, and had 3 turnovers, all interceptions. The Quips had 4 turnovers, 2 fumbles, 2 interceptions. The Quips had 20 yards total passing. Each team ran for about 120 yards and had roughly the same amount of penalties.

  88. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Ok, just got home from the AA game. First of all, it never gets tired. Sorry, not sorry. Secondly, great tailgating. No hassles. Stadium was very nice.
    Alright, where to begin…
    @ Marg: Pls tell me you had a few belts of Irish Coffee before you posted that stream-of-consciousness missive…
    @D2: Knoebels is indeed a national treasure. I spent the GNP of a small third-world country in Playland from 76-83. Viva la Evel Knievel!
    @NEPA: It’s the well water…
    @GaryZ and JeffH: Not gonna lie, first half caused much nervousness, yet at the end, SCA just did what it always does; that is, the collection of rings.
    Westinghouse fans were really nice; good dudes. Classy all around. Lots of fun today.

  89. Dennis says:

    Congratulations Southern Columbia. Coach Roth and staff are the absolute best. Many people counted them out I did not. From a Dunmore bucks fan.

  90. D2 Fan says:

    I’ve been quiet all playoff. I’m sure you wanted to hear from me, because I did the ultimate jinx.

    Told you guys I’d take the blame if Southern won. Blame me for talking about Westinghouse, or even discussing theme. I should’ve just picked Southern, & said Southern. Sharpie, & it would’ve done the job. I should just shut up & stop talking in this forum, because I know the other teams are gonna lose. Haha.

    All joking aside, my true thoughts. I thought going for it on 4th at your own 26 that early on was the ultimate head-scratcher for me. I would’ve punted far & aimed it out of bounds, if I was the coach. I knew that moment would cost them the game. You don’t give Southern that good field position, not even with a great defense.

    Not gonna lie, we need new blood in 2A. It does get boring to see Southern win every year, or making the finals in the East. If I was student in the district, I’d honestly be bored. It’s like yeah, we won, but winning 6 in a row is boring. I’d rather see someone else win. That’s just my opinion. Then again, I went to a school that goes 3-7 to 6-4 every year, & has only won a District once. I’d dream to have Roth or one of the good ones coach up here & change the culture of the area football scene, because it’s not good.

    The only thing that gives me enough resistance to avoid hating the dynasty is that they’re so close to Knoebels. I pass by it every time, so it feels cool to pass by greatness every time I go to the greatest place in the world. Hopefully they get to success factor requirements & they play 3A, or have the guts to play 4/5A. Kennedy Catholic did in basketball at 6A, & I gained more respect for them, even though I am one of the ones who think they should play separate playoffs.

    Now, I did read somewhere (might’ve been Bob Greenberg) that the success factor rule is remaining the same for the next cycle, so that’s probably not gonna happen. That’s a shame, to be honest. That probably means we won’t see either Southern or Aliquippa move up next year, assuming both make it back to the respective rounds they need to.

    I’ll break down my opinion on the other games later, but you guys can blame me for Westinghouse losing.

  91. MikeS says:

    Read two different sports articles on the McDevitt-Quip game, & boy were they different, one I got a feeling the game was a total blowout, and the other the Quips were in the game till late, anyone actually at the game, that can give a real report? For that matter someone at all the games that can give a completely nonpartial report on the games?

  92. D11 Matt says:

    The Southern machine does it again. 6 years in a row. What a program. Most, including myself, thought this was the year the might not make it…..but we were wrong.

  93. Dean says:

    How about those SoCo Tigers , and the best Coaches in the land Jim Roth and company !!

  94. NE PA says:

    Absolute fantastic job by Coach Roth and his staff. An absolute coaching masterpiece all around. A lot of people wrote Southern off this year, and they turn around and dominate through the playoffs once again.

    What a game this afternoon against Westinghouse. Will probably go down as the game of the weekend. In good ole farm boy fashion, they wore em out.

  95. Deefourfan says:

    Southern dominating Westinghouse to another championship. Not a southern fan, but when the city boys meet the farm boys, we know who wins! Congrats southern!

  96. Paul White says:

    #55 on McDevitt had one of the all-time best performances in Championship history last night.
    I Don’t know if they win that game without him. He was that good.

  97. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman & EmanD3man – agree with both of you, very impressive win by McDevitt, I thought the Quips defense might be the difference, but turned out to be McDevitt’s, their D line and linebackers were tremendous last night, Robell was a beast up front. I do think they are the second best team in the state and would be competitive with SJP, and agree they would beat Tep if they played them again. Would not be surprised at all if these teams meet again next year for a rubber match, could be similar to ECP-Tep from 2015-18.

  98. Ryan says:

    After watching the video that the “thrown punch” was committed by Shawn Battle, the PIAA need to review it and reverse the call of the suspended. Absolutely no punch was thrown. What a joke.

    The Zips were missing their starting center. They will be back.

    Did anyone see that Harrisburg only has 37 players on their roster? While SJP has 85

  99. EmanD3 man says:

    Nice W for McD….not sure they got a lot of love west of Harrisburg, but D3 knew how loaded they were! Everyone talks about Saunders and his weapons on O, but they were very underrated on the D side of the ball. Quipps QB was under pressure the whole game, and I think that surprised them. McD loses 8 guys on O next year, including their whole OL, but they still have Saunders for 2 more years and a 1300 WR returning in ’23, so they will be a force next year as well. Saunders has thrown for 8 TD’s the last two state finals, and he’s only 15…so be prepared…plus Erby, the QB from Steel High is back too, and he’s a beast. Nice job D3…2/2 so far

  100. Foleman says:

    McDevitt was on a mission all year and has been preparing for Aliquippa for a while. QB Saunders was a freshman last year and the sophomore version was amazing. Thier was a huge difference in talent and production between the Quipps QB and Saunders. Robell was a one man wrecking crew. McDevitt is probably the 2nd best team in the State behind Prep, I would take them over TEP if they played again, TEP beat McDevitt early in the season.

  101. Mike A. says:

    Bishop McDevitt routs Aliquippa 41-18. McDevitt scored on its1st play from scrimmage to take a 7-0 lead. After the Quips scored to make it 7-6 it was pretty much all Crusaders. McDevitt built a 34-6 lead late in the 3rd quarter before the Quips scored 2 quick TD’s aided by interceptions but McDevitt righted itself in the 4th quarter to claim the title.The Quips were a step slow or late most of the night. McDevitt had more talent, more speed, and more play makers on both sides of the ball. I’m not sure how good the teams that Aliquippa played were but they certainly weren’t prepared for the likes of this McDevitt team. Either Aliquippa was extremely overrated or McDevitt was extremely underrated because this was pretty much a no contest from the start as McDevitt scored on their 1st play from scrimmage via a slant pass that went for 70 yards and continued to score at will most of the game. While the Quips did make a few plays on offense and defense it wasn’t nearly enough to overcome the Crusader onslaught. Despite 3 interceptions, Stone Saunders (5 TD passes), Marquese Williams, Tyshawn Russell, Rico Scott and rest of the McDevitt offense, especially the passing game, were too much for the Quips to handle while Crusader DL Riley Robell wreaked havoc with the Quips offense.
    The Mid Penn Conference goes 2-2 Thursday in the State Championships as Steel High wins the 1A title also. A 3rd Mid Penn title will be much harder as Harrisburg goes up against bully SJP on Saturday.

  102. BK Dave says:

    If a team is forced to move up in the state playoff, say from AAA to AAAA how do they ever move down.

  103. Mike A. says:

    For those attending the championship games at Cumberland Valley, let me know what you think of the campus and stadium. I know there are some big campuses and stadiums in western PA. Does this venue remind me of any other schools, east or west PA, where you have attended games?

  104. Margaret says:

    I think the 42 cass township team beats the 68 mt. Carmel team by a safety

  105. Mike A. says:

    @Wpialguy Cumberland Valley will have virtual classes for the high school on Thursday 12/8 and 12/9 is a scheduled Staff in-service day, no school for all students. Nice to have these games here at my alma mater. They did a great job on the new artificial turf field and lights. There is a red light on a pole at the end, maybe both ends, of the field that is somewhat annoying during night games. I think seating capacity is about 8,000 with plenty of room for standing. Not sure if they will put the bleachers in at the north end zone.That should be more than enough though. One thing I noticed is that there is no light on the new scoreboard at the south end to identify which team has the ball. Not sure if they fixed that but wasn’t fixed last I saw.

  106. GaryZ says:

    @ Brian
    I sincerely could care less. You said the PIAA would investigate and do it quickly. Whatever. Hey all I said was NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. If it does I’m wrong. Post it if it does. Congrats on 26 years as a teacher. I’m bout to watch some games. I’m good on your critiques of me and my ability as a teacher. Post it if this investigation into someone saying “go gangster.” Anyway, enjoy the games @Brian.

  107. 610 says:


    Let me rephrase what I said, I’m sure Martin is a great player. But when I said NG players don’t know who the RB from BV is, what I’m saying is, they look at him as just another player. NG is not just going to focus on 1 player, NG has done great against the run all year, especially against Wyomissing and NL. I’m excited for both teams.

  108. Jeff H. says:

    I keep picking against Union every week, and they keep winning, but I think the magical run ends today, Steelton has too much offensive firepower even without one of their key players and I think they win another high scoring game like the last 2 weeks, I’ll say 35-28.

    I think Bishop McDevitt has a good chance to avenge last year’s loss, but its very tough to go against Aliquippa, their defense has been outstanding the last several weeks, I think they slow down McDevitt’s rushing attack and do enough to contain their passing game to win another high scoring game, I can see the final score being similar to last year, 34-27, expecting a really good game between 2 of the best teams in the state outside of SJP. I agree with Gary Z, the Quips have played much tougher competition in the playoffs and dominated them defensively, they will be by far the best team McDevitt has played this year since they lost to Imhotep in the opener.

  109. GaryZ says:

    Steel High 28- Union 21
    This game is hard one to pick, but I am gonna go w Steel High. I certainly hope I’m incorrect. I think S-H makes a play or two more than Union. I believe Union may play better team football, and their coach will have them prepared. But my gut says Steel High in a close one.

    Aliquippa 35- B.M. 21
    This one should be fireworks. I believe the ‘Quips have the better talent and team. They are close with each other, I feel the ‘Quips got a better team all around, plus they have played some really good competition in WPIAL and blown them off the field.

    Hopefully day 1 is great games. Good luck to all the teams, it’s an accomplishment just getting here.

  110. Brian says:

    @Gary Z Please find for me where I told you that there would be swift action by the PIAA. I never said that dude. I may have said there should be actions by the PIAA as this sort of thing will set a precedent. If there would be violence in a game where there was a known threat to the PIAA, they’d be opening themselves up for lawsuits. What we’ve seen so far is that they’re letting it up to the PSP to do an investigation and they’re increasing security. IMO that’s not enough. For you to dismiss the threat like it means nothing is questionable since you don’t even know who the source of the threat was. I do think it should have been made known that this threat existed as parents are going to choose whether to let their kids attend this game. Do I think that the PIAA would make a decision to keep it quiet so their attendance remains high? Sure as shit I do. Do I think you as a teacher should take a threat to a high school event more seriously, yeah, that too. BTW, I have 26 years in education and have certainly learned that schools need to take these threats seriously because this society isn’t the same as when you and I were in high school. Adding more security and metal detectors might make it safer inside the stadium, but what does it do to increase safety in the parking lot? It sounds like the PIAA is going to pick profits over doing what is in the best interests of the kids once again and for that I’m definitely highly disappointed. Am I shocked though? Heck no. It seems to go with their past decisions. That doesn’t mean it won’t eventually come back to bite them in the backside.

    @Brian C I too agree SCA should not be forced to move up in classification merely because they are winning. It sends the wrong message to players that hard work and success will mean you are penalized. That’s not a good lesson to teach kids.

  111. Wpialguy says:

    Two questions… does Cumberland Valley have school in session during two of these games??

    Also, i believe there’s going to be a slight uptick in attendance this year cause Cumberland valley community will come out for games. That alone will make the piaa thump their chest that they made the right decision.

  112. GaryZ says:

    @Jeff H.
    Great analysis and breakdown in that post. I agree 100% with your thoughts. I will also tip my hat and give SCA even more respect than I already do if they beat Westinghouse.

  113. GaryZ says:

    By me saying that N-G coaches n kids DEFINITELY know who Q. Martin is, does not mean I think they will sit around and talk about his 5stars or ask for an autograph. What I hear from you, is exactly how they need to handle both situations. But I promise you, they will be aware of everywhere he is, and always account for him. You are right, they gotta play with what they have and not get caught up in the hype. I wanted to add that. Again congrats to you and your family. AWESOME EXPERIENCE. Memories for the rest of all your lives.

  114. GaryZ says:

    You got it, next man up attitude. 100% correct. However that is more so applicable to the NFL. You just don’t replace a kid like battle. Here is how him not playing the game will go. Now BVA does not have to constantly focus on where he is at. I will use Quentin Martin (theRB) from BVA, just cause I’m more familiar w him, being from the WPIAL. N-G will not punt or kick to him. They will account a Safety n CB to him when he splits out, they will be aware when he is in the backfield. When N-G is on O, they will be aware when he is at Safety on obvious passing downs. N-G will know and adjust when he is at LB. That’s how a Q. Martin or Battle effect the game. All 3 phases. It allows you to focus attention other places, you know the saying, ‘ can’t be strong in 2 places.’ Now I am not saying Battle not playing means a loss, NOT AT ALL. However, it made things a lot easier for BVA. Athletes of that caliber don’t grow on trees. Yes, N-G knows who Quentin Martin is. THEIR COACHES DO AS WELL. Just by not referring to the kid by name, says a lot. Kids like that literally impact all 3 phases from the jump. As a Coach, I wouldn’t be doing my job if I did not make the kids aware of him and where he is at all game. Again, one player will not decide this game. But a kid of Battles ability n especially Q. Martins ability, effect the game big time. Same works if they don’t play, their is def a little thought in all their heads, that their DUDE, is not playing. I want a good game, hope we get one. @610, good for you and your Son. A great lifelong memory playing in this game. Hope you all enjoy every minute of it, so few kids get this experience. Hope your boy does well, and best of luck to both teams. Here’s to a good game.

  115. MCA75 says:

    Looking forward to a lot of good games this weekend. Its a shame a few teams best players are out.
    Here are my picks:

    Steel High 41 Union 21
    Steel High star player out, I think they still win convincingly

    Southern Columbia 35 Westinghouse 31
    SCA has a tough run defense but has shown to be vulnerable in the pass at times. SCA has almost no passing game but doesn’t matter since nobody has been able to stop their run game in the playoffs. If SCA avoids shooting themselves in the foot with penalties (which they have had a ton this year), I think their experience in this game and their coaching staff will be the difference.

    Belle Vernon 24 Neumann Goretti 20
    NG start player out, I think they lose a close game

    Bishop McDevitt 31 Aliquippa 28

    Imhotep 28 Pine Richland 21

    SJP 48 Harrisburg 14

  116. Brian C says:

    Jeff H, wyomissing beating southern last year was without Southerns Qb who was out with a broken neck from the mca game earlier in the year plus one of the Running backs in their wing t was playing on a bum ankle. Southern wasn’t at full health. Not saying southern would’ve won but when your 10th grade Qb threw 4 picks in his first ever start against a top ranked 3A team it makes for a long night. I would’ve loved to see that game played with both teams 100%. Also, I never said the A or AA team this year could beat the AAA team this year. This is one of Southerns worst teams since 09. However a few years back southern mercy ruled Wyoming area who won the state title that year so yeah southern would’ve won the AAA title that year and southern thumped jersey shore who was in the AAAA state quarters or semis. The southern team this year and next year wouldn’t be able to compete at the state level. They lost bad to Danville in AAA. Southern is right where they’re supposed to be.

  117. Brian C says:

    I am not the brian that has been commenting on the social media thing. I’m the brian commenting on the sca should move up thing. Hope that clears it up somewhat.

  118. Jeff H. says:

    @Brian – none of the 1A teams would have beaten Central Valley the last 2 years, nor Aliquippa in 2018, all were very good teams (Aliquippa beat Middletown 35-0 in the final and had a few DI players on that team), I think 2020-21 CV might have beaten SCA, or at least been a very competitive game, after all Wyomissing beat them last year, and CV beat Wyomissing. Belle Vernon is very good, you will see that on Saturday, I don’t think this SCA team nor Steel High would beat Belle Vernon, and I think Westinghouse is better than Belle Vernon, I’ve seen both of them play this year, although I saw BV early in the season and they are a much better team now than when I saw them against McKeesport.

    My point with SCA moving up is not for them to lose or “punish” them for their success, but to play teams more commensurate with their talent, it gets old watching them mercy rule teams in the state final year after year, as a neutral fan I would have much rather seen them play CV in 3A the last 2 years than blow out the schools they did in 2A, in general it’s not good for the game when 1 team wins titles year after year in any sport, not just HS football. If the PIAA passes the new success rule next year SCA is going to be playing in 3A for the 24-25 cycle whether they want to or not.

    With that being said they are playing a really good team on Friday that looks more like a 4A or 5A team than 2A, I never count out SCA with their track record and coaching, even with their regular season struggles this year I knew the playoffs would be a different story, but if they manage to beat Westinghouse I will be very impressed and tip my hat to them, because they haven’t played a team like this in the final since Steel Valley mercy ruled them in 2016.

  119. 610 says:

    My son just told me that Shawn Battle (NG) isn’t playing, so what does that mean for Neumann-Goretti, next man up. They played over a little of a quarter against Wyomissing without Battle. They’ll be good.

    The team don’t know who the RB from BV is or care about how many offers or stars he has. He will get the same treatment as Scranton Prep, Northwestern Lehigh and Wyo recieved. I want to see a good game from both teams.

  120. GaryZ says:

    @EITHER Brian
    I am just going by what I know, and how such matters are handled. I know one Brian questioned my ability to be a teacher for 24 years, which is fine. I am not making this a competition. But ‘one of the Brian’s’ said there would be swift repercussions and also explained to me how the instagram machine works as well. Said it before, to whatever “Brian” claims their words… please post it when the PIAA hands down these swift penalties and repercussions. I say it does not happen. NOT AT ALL. If I’m wrong, I will own up to it and acknowledge your the smarter man. Brian whoever, please post what you said WOULD HAPPEN when it does.

  121. ScottyB says:

    @ GaryZ

    Apparently he had 2 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, one being a late hit out of bounds and the other a slap to an opposing player.

  122. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    Been thinking a little more regarding SCA v Westinghouse. Obviously comparing teams by using team x played team y and the outcome was z and so I think the winner will be…..has plenty of holes. That said I’m going to do exactly that and use Steel High as the somewhat ‘common’ opponent linking Westinghouse to Trinity and therefore SCA. First let me begin by using the Easternpafootball season previews for Steel High and Trinity.

    Steel High went 9-3 last year and returned 9 on offense and 10 on defense including 2021 3200 yard passer Erby. That seems like a great nucleus to bring back. Trinity also returned a nice nucleus – 9 on offense and 6 on defense – but that was from a 3-6 team.

    In week 7 Steel High beat Trinity 35-28 in OT. On the surface it would seem like a well contested game. In week 2 Westinghouse beat Steel High 39-18. Again, without digging, this would seem like a well contested ball game.

    SCA beat Trinity 42-7 and to be honest the game wasn’t that close. I read somewhere that the Shamrocks had 15 yards of offense in the first 3 quarters and then SCA pulled their starters. This doesn’t necessarily change my mind in regards to SCA being the underdog. That said, sometimes there is merit to comparing scores/games and extrapolating. The 2016 Steel Valley team was a machine, they mercy ruled every team they played. The scores say Westinghouse has not performed to that degree of domination. This will be a good game.

  123. Brian says:

    @Jeff H There’s been nothing in the papers here either. The school administration here says it’s an “ongoing investigation” and so far the PIAA has responded by saying there will be heightened security. So, it seems both the PASP isn’t moving too quickly on this, nor is the PIAA making any decisions that takes a stand against threats. “Go gangster” could mean a multitude of things, but I don’t believe any of those things are being positive role models of prosocial behavior.

    BTW, it appears there are two Brians on here…which probably means only he and I know who wrote what.

  124. Route54 says:

    SCA/Westinghouse. Lots of chatter about this game. On paper the House holds all the cards. I watched some videos of their highlights.

    SCA has a very tall order to fill on Friday. Very tough task at hand for SCA.

  125. Paul White says:

    @Phillyvs everyone…Tep plays a very aggressive style defense in coverage and on offense their line holds all the time. You could literally call a legitimate penalty on them almost on every play. Not a fan of penalties but if any team attracts the flag its Tep.

  126. D2 Fan says:

    @ Brian,

    You’re right. It’s not a bold prediction by any means. Usually I’d go with experience in a matchup like this. Southern’s been there & done that, but I think Westinghouse the better team. Can’t wait to watch on Friday.

    You’d be right about them being the underdog, based off of CalPreps: They have Westinghouse winning by 13.

    @ PhillyVSEveryone

    I mixed that matchup up with Cathedral Prep. I mean, either team is usually in the 4/5A finals each year, it seems, so I’m not surprised that I messed that up. My bad. I should’ve checked first.

  127. SE FB says:

    It is a shame that a couple of the teams best players won’t be playing in the championship that just sucks. And that is an overall bad look for the player, team, and coach too. They’re fantastic athletes but it’s not a good sign for the players at the next level. If they continue that kind of attitude, they won’t sniff the field in college.

  128. GaryZ says:

    I just read that Steel High is gonna be minus one of their star players. Kid seemed to be one of their most potent weapons. It’s a shame to hear about, this case appeared to be a little different from the N-G player who can’t play. I read an article, that honestly was kind of confusing as to the exact reasoning for being ejected. Maybe someone knows something on here. These teams being minus a stud athlete, definitely effect my predictions. But mostly it’s a darn shame for the teams, and players involved.

  129. GaryZ says:

    I been looking at some of the teams from the East, preparing for my picks. This is shaping up to be a really nice final. Hopefully I didn’t jinx that. Looking forward to these games. I was disappointed to hear the stud from N-G will not play because he got ejected. Looking forward to seeing him vs Quentin Martin, the 5Star Stud from BVA. Hopefully still a good game. Looking forward to Union vs Steel High, and SCA vs Westinghouse as well as the rest. Hoping we get some really good games, picks tomorrow. Good luck to All the teams.

  130. FrankG says:

    @OC21 I don’t have that information readily at hand, but it seems to me that schools like St. Edward’s (Ohio), Duncanville, Westlake, and North Shore (Texas), STA, Miami Central, and American Heritage (Florida), Bishop Gorman (Nevada), and Mater Dei, John Bosco, and Serra (California) are in their state championship games within their classifications pretty much every year. Anyone can look at any ranking of high school football teams in the U.S. and note that there are a whole lot more Catholic schools on the list than the proportion of Catholic schools in the country might lead you to expect–though public schools are still the slight majority in the current USA Today ranking. We could go into all the reasons for this, but that would take lots of time. Plus, I don’t pretend to know them all, though I’m pretty sure of some.

    For kids in the Philly area who are very keen on football and who show some talent (and for their parents) SJP offers a combination that no other school in the area offers: proven academic strengths, an active and supportive network of alumni (who show their support of the school and its students by donating substantially to the scholarship / financial aid fund), excellent coaches (most of whom have been there for many years), lots of exposure because of high-profile (sometimes nationally broadcast) games, and an impressive record of former players going on to play not just in top tier D1 schools (Georgia, Michigan, Penn State, Virginia, etc.) but in very good–especially academically–D2 and D3 schools (Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Amherst, Colgate, etc.). It also, by intention and by its location, makes it easy for students of quite different backgrounds to feel at home.

    Is it for everyone? No. (I know a very active alumnus who sent one of his sons to LaSalle because of their program for students with learning disabilities.) Is there a danger the football program–and the students in it–will become a world of its own within the school? Yes–and I am not keen on the current practice of having the football players going on their own service trips instead of mixing with other students on such trips. But from what I’m told and from what I’ve seen with my own eyes, the danger is understood and being actively combatted.

    Who knows? Harrisburg might win this weekend. And next year maybe a team from the WPIAL or the Lehigh Valley will knock off SJP. Not sure that even if both things happen the charge of unfairness will disappear.

  131. Brian says:

    D2 fan going against southern isn’t that bold of a move this year. Many thought they wouldn’t be here after how they started and the injuries they had. Here they are and Westinghouse is going to be tough it knock off. This might be as tough as trying to beat the Farrell teams in the mid 90s or steel valley that was loaded with all that D1 talent. In fact southern may be the underdog in this one.

  132. Brian says:

    This has nothing to do about the right thing to do. This has to do with the type of society we’ve become that we want someone who is successful to change what they do so others can have a chance. It’s the participation trophy mentality. Kudos for aliquippa for playing up. That’s their choice. Moving up to 3A won’t matter much most years as I have always felt 3A was the weaker class and most years the A or AA would beat them. Not this year but many of the years so had southern moved up and won 3A the past few years you’d want them up to 4A and keep on going until they eventually get to 6A against st joes prep. Before you say no way on 3A/4A they played jersey shore for a few years and handled them easily and jersey shore has been to the state quarters semis and finals recently. So it’s not so far fetched. Anyways playing up in class isn’t the right thing to do. A public school that can stay consistent for so long without recruits and transfers being the reason says a lot for the program and community. The only reason people want them to move up is so they get beat, don’t keep winning, and that other AA teams in the state can have an easier chance to win instead of the AA teams knocking them off. Southern lost to 2 AAA teams this year and 1 2A team that they beat in the rematch in districts. I guess st joes prep should go independent and play small colleges by this logic because it’s the right thing to do.

  133. PhillyVSEveryone says:

    @D2 Fan when was that first meeting between Imhotep and Pine-Richland I follow the Philly Pub and Catholic leagues pretty closely and don’t recall Tep playing PR before.

    There seems to be a bias against the Philly teams around here. Many seem afraid of big bad SJP who haven’t broken any rules, and continues to dominate. Tep and NG seem to get the undisciplined “city team” stereotypes applied to them. I wonder how many people who make these claims have actually seen these teams play. I had one of the head refs in District 12 tell me the other day how bad the refs from both Tep and NG’s games last week were and how many calls they were blowing or how the refs were injecting themselves.

    My point is let’s let the kids show up and perform this weekend. I’m obviously biased (see my name) in the three games Philly teams are in, but I want to see great games in all 6 classes.

  134. OC21 says:

    @FrankG two of the four states you mentioned are probably the two biggest high school football states in the country. Texas and Florida I don’t know for sure but can almost guarantee that both of those states have multiple teams that are nationally ranked. I just read an article on Twitter from Joe Santoliquito about the chip game coming up and he wrote “ The hawks top the list of large school state championships 6. Two at 4A and 4 at 6A . Prep has been involved in every Class 6A state championship. Wow! I don’t have the facts but is it like that in any of the states you mentioned?
    @JeffH I’m pretty sure the catholic league joined the PIAA in 2007. The dates you mentioned were just prior to that. They started recruiting kids from the public schools. Every team is beatable on any given day but for a team to make it to the final round every year and usually with ease is concerning. Something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. Overhaul the whole system? They need to be playing up a level. Like I said , join the NJ private league.

  135. D2 Fan says:


    Steel-High/Union Area: You’d think Steel-High has the advantage, but Union Area is playing good team football. I’ll go with the better program. Clock strikes 12 for the Scotties, as they’ll get steamrolled 45-17.

    Bishop McDevitt/Aliquippa II: The Sequel will be hopefully be up to the likes of The Godfather Part II & Terminator 2. Regardless if it’s good, or a dud, it’s Aliquippa’s world & we’re just living in it. I got them 42-21 to defend their title.

    Southern Columbia/Westinghouse: I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna to go against Southern. This historic season might need its own media installment. A documentary, feature film, 30-for-30, Peacock original, whatever. Westinghouse is my pick to win. I’ll gladly take fault for the jinx, if it’s the other way around, but a story like this is what the PA football scene deserves to have. Westy over SCA 31-28, & I’ll say it’s done in OT.

    Imhotep/Pine-Richland: 2nd meeting in 3 years. I trust Pine-Richland a lot more. Imhotep has the better players, but P-R always plays great team football. I think the better “team” will pull away late. Rams over Panthers 38-27.

    Neumann-Goretti/Belle Vernon: I’m gonna take Belle Vernon. They feel like the better team. I don’t know much about either side, so I’ll keep it short. I’ll say 35-20 Leopards. Watch this be a 42-7 blowout for Neumann-Goretti, & we all complain about private & public once more.

    St. Joe’s Prep/Harrisburg: I don’t have much else to say. In the style of Seth Davis’ jinx of Virginia in March Madness, a few years ago: St. Joe’s. Sharpie. 42-17 Hawks over Cougars.

  136. Jeff H. says:

    @Brian – there has been absolutely nothing in the media in the Pittsburgh area regarding this alleged threat on Twitter, I would think if something was going to come of this there would have been some mention of it by now. And what exactly does “go gangster” mean, do you think the Westinghouse kids are going to carry a gun or knife on the field and use it after the game if they lose? Do you not think the PIAA already has significant security measures in place for these games? We’ll see what happens, but I’d be very surprised if anyone is suspended for this game because of something they may or may not have said or implied on Twitter, like Gary Z I’ll be the first one to admit I was wrong if the PIAA does something.

    Regarding Aliquippa, you are right about the number of transfers because many of these kids come from broken homes and move around quite a bit, but the difference between them and SCA is they have voluntarily been playing up in class for decades, because they know its the right thing to do for their program, at some point don’t you challenge your kids and voluntarily move up a class to play better competition in the state playoffs? One of the main reasons the PIAA is considering dropping the 3 transfer criteria and just moving schools up based on success alone is because SCA continues to play and dominate 2A every year and not voluntarily move up, I can hear all the whining now if this new rule passes, how unfair it is, punishing kids for winning, blah, blah, blah.

  137. GaryZ says:

    Brian I never said it was not a stupid thing to do, making an alleged. I’m simply saying please lemme know when the PIAA brings about the swift action to said kid. That’s all, I really don’t care about what you think of me, and asking me if I know this or that. Just lemme know when the PIAA takes the action you stated. Please. Good day.

  138. Brian says:

    First off sca and Roth are not cowards. First in class A it was move up to AA and you’ll never win. You’ll never beat Mt. Carmel etc. well they move up to AA and have been in all but 1 state title since moving up. They don’t move on because of being cowards they stay in their class piaa puts them in. They petition to stay in AA because they don’t have the transfers/recruits. They petition because piaa counts any new student on the roster as a transfer so all in coming players are considered a transfer when they’ve all been at southern. Aliquippa has moved up because of their transfers they get. They’re in an area where people move in on a regular basis. Not the same like southern. Next nobody in the sca camp feel this is a shoe in against Westinghouse. Many of sca people didn’t think they would be this far this year. This is not one of better teams but they’re playing well and gel at the right time. I think southern is in for a dogfight and may lose by multiple scores. However I could also see them winning a close game too because they have proven many wrong this year.

  139. Jeff H. says:

    @OC21 – Back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s there were several PA public schools that were nationally ranked, including North Hills, Penn Hills, CB West, Woodland Hills, Gateway, etc., in fact in 1999 there were 3 PA schools in the USA Today top 10 with CB West, Woodland Hills and ECP. I don’t dispute anything you are saying about SJP being a national program and draws the most talent of any school in the state, but they are beatable, since the move to 6 classes they are 4-2 in the state final. There may come a day when SJP decides to opt out of the state tournament, and I like your idea of them competing with the Jersey privates for a SEPA/NJ title, but that’s going to be for the school to decide because I seriously doubt the PIAA is going to ask SJP not to participate.

    The fact is outside of SJP the current system is working ok, since the move to 6 classes in 2016 public schools have won 24 titles and the private schools have won 12, in the largest 3 classifications the privates are 10-8, in the smallest 3 the publics lead 16-2. Only 4 privates have won those 12 titles, SJP with 4, Wood and ECP with 3 each, and BG with 2 in 1A. All 3 of the later schools were forced to move up a class due to the success rule, and none of them has won a state title since being moved up, so despite it’s flaws the current system is not too bad. I have stated on this board several times in the past that I think it would be a disaster for HS football in this state to split into public and private championships, are we going to totally overhaul the system because of 1 school?

  140. The Joneses says:

    @OC21 I am extremely interested in your response to FrankG and all those other nationally ranked teams that play in state playoffs. The “not fair” narrative really falling short with this information because it’s establishes what occurs in other states as well.

    @Vaugh Jones- I was a prep outsider and rival with my older son. My younger son chose Prep on his own. Being a Prep parent my eyes were open to so many lies people outside prep spread and I was very disappointed in myself because I believe them and even spread them when I was an outsider. FrankG laid it our perfectly for you and all that information is available on the website. Don’t believe the hype. There isn’t a school in the United States where tuition is paid that some particular aid is offered for academics or athletics to students so let’s also stop acting like this is something to even discuss.

  141. Brian says:

    @Gary Z I do question that your response is such and that you’re a teacher. Do you not go through the same mandatory drills and procedures for threats of violence and for intruder drills that other schools go through each year? Do you not realize that a Twitter account is actually linked to an individual? That isn’t a random threat whose owner can’t be located. It’s specific and it’s easily traceable. The idea that the PIAA has no responsibility to do anything is utter BS. They ARE responsible for the safety at this game. In previous cases like the one Foleman mentioned, the PIAA was able to let the schools involved decide what the penalties would be. That is not a similar scenario here. This isn’t a case where the school that is hosting can make a decision to keep the players and fans safe, but is being hosted at a neutral field. The game itself in this case is under the control of the PIAA, not either participating school. If the PIAA does nothing about this to ensure the safety of those in attendance, who do you think would be sued if there actually was violence after an open threat on social media? You aren’t being realistic if you don’t realize the society we live in now is very quick to sue. The PIAA as we know it would go bankrupt and cease to exist if they were to be held accountable for the safety of those in attendance if such violence occurred and they did nothing. You’re expecting every parent who has a child in attendance to trust your opinion (of a student whose identity you don’t even know) that this was a blind threat and won’t be carried out? I don’t know about you, but any time our school ever had a threat we found a number of parents kept their kids home from school for their safety if school wasn’t cancelled. Your blind faith in the morality code of a student you and I know nothing about doesn’t instill great faith in me that this was just an empty threat. To think you had issue with me calling posting something like that “stupid” is laughable at best. You must be the same teacher who says there are no such things as “stupid questions.” In this case, threatening another school online prior to a game is, most definitely, stupid.

  142. Foleman says:

    I think it’s time the PIAA institutes a rule and punishment for threats by players on social media against other HS Players or teams. I know in some cases it’s difficult to investigate, however, something needs to be done. I found out what happened when a threat on a Pope John Player came from someone who was either a player or fan from Phoenixville. I won’t discuss the details online but it was flat out sickening what was posted which included personal info about the kids family. The game had to moved with only family members allowed to watch. As far as I know, no investigation by anyone-school, police etc happened. Whoever posted that threat should be in Jail.

  143. FrankG says:

    @Vaughn Jones From what I hear, about 60% of Prep students receive some kind of financial aid, so –no–most families don’t pay the whole $26,000 in tuition. And SJP does accept transfers after freshman and sophomore years and those students do not have to have taken Latin before coming to the Prep. I understand they do have to take Latin after they arrive. (The Prep no longer requires any student to take Latin for four years, but they do require two years of Latin.)

  144. FrankG says:

    @OC21 Last I saw SJP is ranked #25 by USA Today. I also saw on the list that St. Edward’s (Ohio), Duncanville (Texas), St. Thomas Aquinas (Florida), Bishop Gorman (Nevada), and many other schools are ranked higher in the poll and are playing in state playoffs and are not segregated into a classification with other “privates”–in the cases where they are private schools. Last year I don’t think the Prep appeared in any top 25 list. In 2019, having lost to Marietta and to IMG, they were certainly not near the top of any list if, in fact, they were nationally ranked at all. I can’t imagine they were “nationally ranked” at the end of 2017. They certainly weren’t in 2015. And I think they lost three games in both 2013 and 2014. Can’t imagine they were “nationally ranked” in those years either.

    I get it. SJP has been the dominant big-school program in PA for a decade. They also have an advantage–their ability (because of their location) to draw students from nearly all of the Delaware Valley–that very few other PA schools have. They also have some disadvantages, most obviously the lack of an onsite practice field. They also have requirements that are higher than those of many other schools–a reason they lost two starters before the season began.

    Yes they recruit students from “multiple states,” but that number is two. They have always had many students from South Jersey, and, like all private schools, they have to recruit to stay open. There are other PCL schools that get students from Jersey. I don’t know about public schools. I know of two students at SJP in the last ten years who lived in Delaware: a wide receiver named Chambers who played his freshman year at SJP but then left the school. The other was Armen Ware, a lineman who went to elementary school in Philadelphia and who decided–with his family–to go to the Prep for high school when his family moved to northern Delaware.

    If you are not from the Philadelphia area you may not know that SJP is far from the only school that recruits students, including those who play football and basketball and, yes, in some cases especially those who play football and basketball. (They also make special efforts to recruit those with very high academic promise and those from disadvantaged backgrounds who show academic promise.) The Prep competes with all the Inter-AC schools, all the PCL schools, and with public schools in recruiting these students. And it’s not as if there aren’t schools in Jersey that are trying to recruit many of the students SJP is also recruiting.

    One thing I guarantee if SJP leaves the PIAA. Within two years and maybe even within one there will be claims from some public school coaches and supporters that team x or team y could beat SJP if only … (I’m not taking a win over Harrisburg for granted.)

  145. GaryZ says:

    I get it, your implying I’m naive. I’d say I’m realistic, and I am applying a little common sense. Please post when this “blows wide open” and the PIAA hands down these swift “repercussions.” I’m not trying to be smart. In reality the PIAA has nothing to do with it, if this threat of going ‘gangster’ is true. It would need to be forwarded to the PA State police. The PIAA is not a criminal investigation unit, they govern sports not law. When you post that this has blown wide open and we all know the repercussions… I will acknowledge I am wrong and your the smarter man. I assume your a teacher as well. In all seriousness, let’s see what the PIAA CAN DO. I want to see the repercussions that come swiftly. I bet that there are not any repercussions or major developments before the kickoff this week. Remember the PIAA is not a criminal investigative body, has to be turned over to State Police. But if I am wrong, I will certainly own up to it. That’s something you can count on.

  146. VAUGHN JONES says:

    My understanding is that kids can’t just transfer into SJP unless they have 3yrs of Latin and 4yrs of Spanish along with 26k, So most times they have to work with kids who came in as a freshman.

    Now to me that seems like a disadvantage. Congratulations to all the teams playing this upcoming weekend.

  147. GaryZ says:

    I’m not shocked by anything kids say. I refrain from referring to kids as stupid though. Maybe the HS you teach at that’s ok, not for me, or the District I teach at. What do you think the PIAA can/will do? Prove its not a dummy account and then formally sanction a kid for saying they will go gangster after they lose? Come on, I’m not the smartest guy, but do have a Masters Degree and 24 years teaching. Do you honestly think that there is some plot for after they lose to do something “gangster.” I don’t. Nobody knows who the account even belongs to. I will tell you right now what the PIAA will do… ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. To hard to prove, and common sense allows adults to get an idea of the situation. Come on now.

  148. OC21 says:

    @Jeff H
    SJP is a nationally ranked team year in and year out. In what other classification do you have that. None. There is no other team like SJP in the state. I’m sure if each classification had a school like SJP there would be a lot more complaining going on. I find it hard to believe that even one other school in the state recruits the way they do from multiple states. As I said nothing against the school or the kids. There are some phenomenal athletes on that team. All I am saying is a team that has multiple D1 players on their roster year in and year out should not be playing in the state tournament. Why can’t they play in the private school division in NJ. A lot of good teams and most on their level. Not far to travel.

  149. Brian says:

    @GaryZ. Oh, I’m certain you’ll be reading and hearing about it. This is a new investigation. You think the PIAA made any decisions on their first day back to work after this just occurred just this weekend? Adults have viewed the tweet and reported it. In today’s day and age, anything you put on social media is permanent and can be located despite the fact the poster removed it.
    I’m surprised you work with kids and don’t think they’re dumb enough to do this. I too work with kids and I absolutely believe kids say stupid crap online thinking only their friends will see it and think they’re cool.
    I’m quite certain this story is going to blow wide open this week. There’s no way the PIAA can keep it quiet. They’re only going to have a few days here to come to a conclusion and decide what repercussions will occur. You’re absolutely wrong in implying that this is simply trash talking. Trash talking and threats of violence at this level are completely different. I’m not naive enough to think kids don’t say dumb crap they shouldn’t. I’m sure the PIAA doesn’t want the cat out of the bag before they decide what they’re going to do, but this investigation will have to be pretty speedy.

  150. GaryZ says:

    I have no connection to Westinghouse, other than watching them in the same 7v7. Just seems odd that one kid, got a screenshot from “several” Westinghouse players… and they were already launching an attack for after they lose. Come on. Plus after they made said contingency plan for losing, they said “go gangster.” Sorry, I work with HS kids all year. They don’t talk like that, actually sounds more like someone who has no idea thinks an inner city kid would talk. I check on a lot of student athlete accounts, there is trash talk for sure… but saying after we lose, we will “go gangster.” That is really corny if said House players made that comment. Again sounds more like an older person saying what they think kids from that environment would say. Who knows, I may be wrong. But please show me where this is, so I can read it. If it’s brought to SCA attention, they have to make it known. I have been a teacher in PA for 24 years, I know how it works. I am not calling anyone a liar but show me something. Plus Westinghouse players don’t strike me as the type of kids who already are making revenge plots after they lose to SCA. When I watched them in 7v7, and in person… pretty darn confident group. I could be wrong, just throw some direction as to where we can read about this or read about the validity of it. I am being serious, when people say things like threats were made. We should see some proof, at least something. How could they do quickly prove what kid(kids) made the “go gangster” threat after we lose. Seriously.

  151. GaryZ says:

    In all seriousness, is this in the paper? Was a police report made? Seems odd a kid or kids would say “go gangster.” But kids are kids. I’m not being a smart arse here, but what should the PIAA do to these kids. They may or may not be players, who knows who actually posted it, if it got posted.idk. I mean some SCA kid took a screen shot, and “shared it.” Idk how you really boil this down. Just seems to cast a wide net w little facts. I may be wrong, but it’s SCA and once parents here about it. I would assume it would be everywhere n all over the place. I’m not calling nobody a liar. But that seems a little bit all over the place. I don’t think anyone needs to worry. I know the term “hood” was used, but they are HS kids about to play a HUGE GAME. Your right violence occurs at football games and everywhere else. I just don’t think kids talking trash is more than that. If this actually happened.

  152. Jeff H. says:

    @OC21 – every year we hear the same whining and moaning about the advantages the private/non-boundary schools have. I assume you realize 5 out of the 6 champions last year were public schools, the only private/non-boundary winner was BG in 1A. In 4A, 5A and 6A you had public schools beat non-boundary schools in the final, and you will likely see some public schools beat non-boundary schools this weekend, we’re guaranteed to have a public school winner in 1A and 2A. There are 4 new schools in the finals this year that have never been there before, 3 public schools in Union, Westinghouse and Belle Vernon and Neumann Goretti from the PCL, so we’re not getting the same teams every year. There were also 4 newcomers last year and 2 of them won gold in Penn Trafford and Mt. Lebanon. Obviously there are some great programs in every classification that have a good chance to get to the finals each year, both public and private, that’s more due to coaching and the culture at the school than anything else.

    @TheJoneses – you are absolutely right, this is all about SJP and we hear the same crap regurgitated every year and it does get old. Only in 6A is there a perceived problem with the non-boundary schools due to SJP, in no other classification do we have an issue, I guess people have short memories and forget how good the game was last year between Aliquippa and Bishop McDevitt, I for one am excited to watch those 2 schools clash again, I’ve had Dec 8 circled on my calendar for awhile in anticipation of this rematch. I also guess people forgot SCA blew out private school Serra Catholic in the 2A final and no one said anything about the advantages of the private schools after either of those games.

  153. GaryZ says:

    Very astute post for the first of the year, I only post during semis and finals. You definitely did your homework and watched tape. Your assessment was on point, and the comparisons spot on! Westinghouse is really aggressive but almost oddly disciplined. Their DC really knows his craft, he is highly thought of in the WPIAL, so is the HC. Great post and analysis. Just like @Jeff H. I am not saying they are unbeatable, or can speak on what some kid posted to another kid… but they can really play. Yes 100% they can go 4 quarters of hard nosed football. Just go Google Westinghouse football highlights. They played a 6A 2X’s, and Butler which is a 5or6A. Also chose to schedule Steel High and Clairton consecutively. They can play 4 quarters. I didn’t think they could make BerlinBrothers Valley look easy and they did. Thought Steel Valley would be the biggest test, not so much. Hey let’s see what happens, I am betting on The ‘House to be able to play 4 quarters at a very high level. Best of luck to both teams.

  154. Jeff H. says:

    @CoalRgnFtballFan – very good synopsis of Westinghouse on both sides of the ball, it’s crazy to say this but I too think SCA is the underdog in this game, they are going to have a lot of trouble sustaining any long drives on this defense. This Westinghouse team is comparable to Steel Valley 2016 in terms of size and speed, I think their defense is better than that SV defense, as I stated in a prior post their closing speed to the ball is tremendous. I also agree coach Roth and staff have done a great job this year because this team in the regular season certainly didn’t look like they’d be back playing for a 6th straight championship.

  155. Jeff H. says:

    @ Dennis – I’ve watched Westinghouse play the last 2 weeks and trust me, they bring it for all 4 quarters, their defense is extremely impressive, Southern Columbia may end up winning, but this is the best team they have played in the state final since 2016, and I bet coach Roth would admit that after he watches the tape. I expect this to be a highly competitive, hard fought game and one of the better ones this weekend, I also think the Aliquippa-McDevitt rematch will be a tremendous game, Pine and Imhotep will be very competitive, and so will Belle Vernon and NG, I think there are going to be several compelling games this weekend.

  156. The Joneses says:

    @Brian I agree with you 100000 percent. There’s only one correction need to be made. You didn’t state the tweet mentioned a gun. Let’s please careful when we put our personal inference in as a matter of fact.

    Note I am not saying you cannot make the inference as to what they meant by going gangsta. I am saying don’t say they threatened to use a gun because it changes everything. They will find him and that kid should not be allowed to play in the game. Period.

  157. DENNIS says:

    B.S. with cowardice! As a Dunmore bucks fan you better be able to play 4 full quarters with Southern or you are going to pay the price. I hope it is a close game. My question is can Westinghouse play hard nose football for 4 quarters.we will see. You can have all the strength and speed but can you play 4 quarters. Southern has strength and speed also. This will be the best game of the championships.This game will be a toss-up. Good luck Southern from a Dunmore bucks fan!

  158. Brian says:

    @Jay I 100% disagree with you. SCA is playing in the class set by the PIAA based on the number of boys they have available in their school to pull from. Their schedule is not filled with single A or even mostly AA schools, but with many AAA schools and schools that are more competitive so that it can get them ready for the playoffs. This year’s team was not expected to get this far. Those kids turned their whole team around at the end of the season and started playing greater than anyone expected they were capable. They aren’t a bunch of D1 recruits like we saw in the 2019 team. They’re a bunch of kids from a small school that spends their entire year in the weight room and are dedicated to the sport. What you’re implying is that other schools aren’t capable of the same level of success if they have the same number of kids to pull from…why not? Why should a school that hasn’t put in this kind of effort to stay at that level of play be crowned the champion when there is a better team who had the same limitations that moved up to play bigger schools? Is our lesson for kids that they should be penalized for putting in the hard work? If they stay in AA if their enrollment falls to A, would that make you happy, or do they have to keep moving up classes until they don’t make it into the playoffs? Does your job penalize you for being more productive and working harder than others they employ? Athletics in schools are supposed to help teach life lessons…what life lesson are you looking to teach by forcing a successful school to move into a classification above where they should be? I’ve yet to hear a good argument for why they should be playing in a classification that doesn’t apply to them.

    On a related note, I recently read an article that Westinghouse’s coach wants his players to first be respectable men on and off the field and that he wants them to change the image that comes with living in “the hood”. I was very inspired to read that he had high expectations of these young men. I was then a little more than disturbed to learn over the weekend that several of their players make a Twitter post threatening to “go gangster” on the SCA sidelines if the result of the game isn’t what they wanted. Time will tell what the PIAA will do with this threat, but this is certainly not a team I’d be rooting for after hearing this. The PIAA needs to set a precedent and come down hard on this before it gets out of control. There have been too many instances where the schools playing have been left to decide how this type of situation will be handled. The threat was removed from Twitter, but it was saved by an SCA player who then shared it with others. SCA’s administration was notified and I’m sure that today the PIAA will have this matter on their plate to deal with. I certainly hope they keep in mind that they moved the game to a less secure facility than Hershey and that another school will be in session when this game is occurring. Long gone is the day when you can threaten to use a gun on anyone in a school environment and have no repercussions. These young men should have been made well aware of that over the course of their education and their actions should be made into a example so that these types of threats don’t continue to happen in the future. There have been several shootings at school football games this year, so I don’t think any of us should just see this as an empty threat and ignore it. I’m very disappointed that these young men thought this was an acceptable thing to do and I’m interested to see how their coach handles it despite what the PIAA decides to do. In my eyes, it will speak volumes on his character and if that article was telling the truth about his intentions as a coach.

  159. Jeff H. says:

    @GaryZ – Totally agree with you on Westinghouse’s defense, their physicality, play recognition and closing speed is tremendous, I’m pretty sure Southern Columbia has not faced a defense like this all season, no disrespect at all meant to Mt Carmel and all the other teams they have played. Westinghouse’s defense gave up 13 points combined the last 2 weeks to 2 of the best offensive teams in 2A in the state in Farrell and Steel Valley, and the only time SV scored on Friday was when the House fumbled the second half kickoff and they recovered at the 6 yard line, otherwise they were never in the red zone the rest of the game. I don’t foresee SCA’s offense putting together too many long drives on this team, I feel very confident in saying SCA will be playing their best opponent in the finals since they lost to Steel Valley in 2016.

  160. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    First post of the year – Thought I’d add my 2 cents. I believed from the summer through week 8 that MCA would represent the East in the state final. That said, after week 8’s game my tune changed. MCA may have beat SCA, but the team I saw play could not compete with the top teams in AA. Locally, there was chatter than SCA wouldn’t make it past the 2nd round of districts (Troy). Based on how they had played through the regular season, that wasn’t a stretch to imagine. In my opinion this is the SCA coaching staff’s finest job. This team is not remarkable. But they are playing well together and the chemistry has come around. In my opinion, making it this far was a surprise to most if not all fans of the program.

    That said. Westinghouse is impressive. From what I’ve seen, their defense is very fast and very aggressive – very impressive. Their offense is solid. I believe SCA would have to play a nearly perfect game to win. It’s a must they limit/eliminate penalties and turnovers to be in the game. I have no doubt the SCA coaching staff will have the defense in position and alert for the Westinghouse tendencies, but being able to stop them is another question. Offensively I just don’t know if SCA will be able to get to the outside.

    Farrell was hyped last year. I knew they would not present a challenge to SCA – and in fact didn’t make it to the state final. This team is different. Completely different. The only team I can compare them to that SCA has played in recent times is the 2015 Aliquippa team – but Westinghouse is superior to that team. By a wide margin. That team relied on a strong ground game and big play (heave the ball downfield) pass game. Westinghouse seems to run a disciplined spread offense with a very good QB who doesn’t rely on deep fades, but hits seams and intermediate routes efficiently. I have to think SCA is not just underdogs, but underdogs by a fairly wide margin.

  161. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G- I agree no way the Inter-AC welcomes the Prep. Malvern was able to travel once when Coach Brady was there, but that’s about it. I have only EA and Malvern play Friday nights. The Erasmus Hall game was a great game. I met some of their players during the St Peters prep game at Rutgers as they were scouting. Great group of kids. Talked to a few after our game against them and they admitted prep were tough, but were more excited to show what they are made of. I am hoping this is a 2 year agreement between the schools.

    I was very sad UD didn’t come away with the win. Colin had a great career there. I’m hopeful he ends up somewhere. I know Boston college has shown a lot of interest. I think he is scholarship player.

  162. The Joneses says:

    I am so sick of people sounding so immature and saying “its not fair”. The definition of fair is “in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.”. EVERYTEAM competes by the same rules in the PIAA. They are governed by the same rules. PERIOD.

    Public or boundary schools have enrollment policies enforced by their districts. Schools like Northpenn has established policies that allows a work around the boundary. The athletics department at each school has decided to participate in the PIAA.

    I won’t generalize like others and say private schools because if we’re honest when this is said what’s really meant is SJP.
    A private non-boundary the school. Family’s from all areas always sent their son’s there because it is a great academic institution. Always has a high percentage of students from Nj attend. The athletics department decided with the rest of the PCL they wanted gain membership into the PIAA, at which time was granted membership.

    No rule or policy states where a student lives impacts the schools ability to participant in PIAA sports.
    People through recruiting around and it’s been established public schools recruit.

    What PIAA rules or standards does SJP operate under that other schools do not. Yes SJP has a talent pool greater than many schools for football players. I am certain we can find schools that have a better talent pool for other sports.. It’s such a sad state of thought and I am seeing the children adopt this train of thought, which I think is sadder.

    Congrats to NG who put the pundits to sleep with their win and not, “roll over” or get run over by Wyoming.

  163. FrankG says:

    @OC21 At least a few years ago Catholic (non-boundary) schools and public schools competed against one another in the playoffs in Ohio and Florida–maybe other states too. I know they don’t in Jersey, but I’m not sure that’s a situation you would want to duplicate in PA.

  164. GaryZ says:

    I agree on SCA with you, 100%. I will not use the word cowardice though. I think it’s about rings and banners more than testing themselves. I DO NOT blame the kids. Coaches and Administration, yes I blame them. Roth is a great coach, but DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY UP. That is common knowledge based on their response and appeal to avoid moving up. I would say the same about Aliquippa if they did not play up 3 classes, and I have coached for 21 years in the WPIAL. Because if they played where they would in Class A, games would be ridiculous. Same if they played in 2A or 3A. They would just humiliate teams. I really excited to see SCA n Westinghouse play. The ‘House is from Homewood in Pittsburgh, very high crime rate, low income and really no facilities. Hard not to root for them. I said it before, they are NOT Farrell or Wilmington. Just look at the teams they chose to play to fill open dates. They want to be tested, and have answered the call each time. I saw them in 7v7 in summer and watched them a good bit. This team is loaded everywhere. They are great on O, but those LB’s and the D are just phenomenal. I have not seen a D that hits that hard and plays w that much speed in 10 years. I am putting my picks up later, in no way am I taking a shot at the kids or fans from SCA. They don’t have a say in the matter, Roth and the Administration do. I don’t buy into the travel argument either. Let’s see what happens Friday. Best of luck to both teams.

  165. Jay says:

    @610 “Just give credit where it’s due and move on”… it’s a lot more complicated than that, get real man.

    I’ve lost almost all interest in PA HSFB a because of the lack of fairness with public vs private and the recruiting. I keep an eye on it out of habit but it’s lost a lot of allure for me. I love seeing new teams in the state final like NG and both 3A teams.

    Someone asked below why shouldn’t SC move up… the answer is pure cowardice… the audacity of that team to appeal a bump to 3A or even remotely whine about it when they’ve enjoyed so much success at 2A absolutely screams cowardice to me. Just my humble opinion, whoever disagrees let’s hear it.

    Good luck to all 12 teams this upcoming weekend. I won’t be watching.

  166. OC21 says:

    I have never seen a sports league or tournament where there are two different sets of rules for the teams playing in the league or tournament. In this case non boundary schools against boundary schools. How can you tell one team they can get kids from anywhere they want but the other teams can only draw from an area around their school and expect to have a fair league or tournament. NEVER in my life have I seen that at any level except in the state of Pennsylvania. Nothing against the schools that recruit or the kids. It’s the PIAA and from what I am told the politicians that control the PIAA. Only they can make the change. When the same schools are dominating and going to the state championship every year obviously there is problem. The PIAA has to come up with a solution to make it fair and the politicians have to let them do it.

  167. D11 Matt says:

    As another season of HS football comes to an end, my 2022 Championship picks.

    A: Steel High 28- Union 14 (steel with back to back wins with under a min left against Northern Lehigh and Canton gets them to the final and they have been best A team all year but had close games last two weeks which should help them if it’s close).

    AA: Southern 26- W House 20 in OT. Could be best game of weekend. Southern looked like this could be the year they don’t make it to state championship but they got healthy and a Roth led team isn’t going away that easy. I’m not picking against Roth team who hasn’t lost a playoff game since 2016 Final. In fact, they haven’t had a playoff games within 2 scores in those 6 years. They might Thursday.

    AAA: NG 18- BV 28.

    AAAA: Aliquippa 35- BM 21

    AAAAA: Pine-Richland 23- Tep 16

    AAAAAA: Prep 38- Harrisburg 21

    I think AA and AAAAA have chance to be best games.

  168. 610 says:

    @Pennsyltucky Proud, thanks, the team did great.
    @mcd 65, so penalties is what you got from Imhotep/NG winning their games too advance to the State title game. WOOOOW

    It seems like there’s no love for Philly HS teams, alot of people make excuses or have something bad to say. The best HS football team in PA is SJP, I didn’t go to SJP, I went to Norristown.. Just give credit where it’s due and move on.

    Yesterday’s game between NG/Wyomissing, that wasn’t a Hail Mary play, secondary was sleep. Wyo rushed for 145 yards on 45 carries, Shawn Battle had 190 on 19 carries.

    And there’s nothing wrong with the turfs at either supersite, yes the goal post is bent but Wyomissing’s kicker didn’t have no issues kicking a FG and 2 XP.

    I want everyone who didn’t give NG a chance against Wyo, keep that same energy when we play BV.

  169. mcd 65 says:

    I get so frustrated with both Imhotep and Neuman/Gorretti and their amount of penalties each game. Its obvious after years of displaying a lack of discipline that Coaching has to be at the core. I know Albie does a great job getting his players into college ,but it would be nice to watch them play with more cohesion and less stupid mistakes. I may be a bit harsh with this ,but damn I hate not seeing better results from these two.

  170. Football5 says:

    It’s time for the PIAA to make a change. Private schools need their own class. What is so hard do 5 classes of public school and one for private. When it comes down to it simply just not fair private schools have no rules they can recruit and they do affectively. Anyone that argues that either has a kid that goes there or has been a fanboy of the school. If you’re not going to change it then let public schools be able to recruit also. Furthermore I’m sure that’s why the games are out of Hershey and at Cumberland Valley now because you can’t fill the stands because no one comes to watch a private school Unless you have a family member on the team. Public schools put a lot more fans in the seat because they have a town behind them also. Most public schools will get a D1 athlete every 5 to 10 years if they’re lucky private schools that recruit well and are always winning state championships have 5+ on their team every year. I’m sure they’ll be comments like oh he’s crying because his team didnt win I didn’t even have a team in the fight this year I just have enough common sense to know that it’s not even close to a level playing field.

  171. Kevin X says:

    Uh oh, that only leaves North Penn 🙂

    Maybe I should look on the sunny side of life and toss out some schools that maybe outdid themselves. Off the cuff: Crestwood, Executive Education, CB West, Pennsbury. I’d even toss in Scranton Prep after loosing arguably the best RB in the state in their scrimmage. Others????

  172. Kmac says:

    Correction to my last.

    D3 vs D12 in the Third to last paragraph line; not D13, of course.

  173. D2 Fan says:

    @ Brian,

    Good questions. Like I said, I know it will never happen, especially since it brings up the same issues Aliquippa had with 5A.

    To answer the first question, I don’t think they’d need to commute much. They already have 4A in their conference, & play a couple of them every year. I know it’s really only Shore who’s good in class, but they can still play in-league, at minimum. They got good District 2 teams nearby (VV & Dallas, especially). I’m not saying they should go independent. I’m not saying they should play all Philly teams. They can still be in the league. I wouldn’t doubt that a good D3/11 would entertain the idea of a home & home. Why not Middletown? Manheim? McDevitt? If the EPC had non-con, why not Beca/ACC? The commute might be a pain, but it’s not like they’ll have one every week.

    I’ll say this, if I was a coach or AD at a really good D2/3/11 school & saw Southern came up to our classification, I’d be licking my chops & entertain the idea of a home & home to them. Win or (most likely) lose, it would be a great experience. You know, I sorta believe that Wyoming Area state title season was helped in part of that scheduling change. It gave them some lessons.

    My thinking is more for the playoffs. I think for the playoffs, they’ll have a slightly tougher road. With the bracket Shore was in, you could make the argument that it could go either way in the ACC game (never count out the EPC South teams). Assuming they made it past, Aliquippa probably would be the roadblock. 5A is a mystery. Depends on the subregional & bracket. They’d be the lone 5A team in D4, barring something very crazy. They’d wipe the floor with D6/8, & maybe D2’s region.

    I did not realize they were that close to 1A. I’m curious to know how they would stack up against all of the 1A teams that came out to states. My gut is they’d beat anyone out West. Canevin would’ve maybe given them the toughest game, if they survived. The East is a mystery.

    “Why shouldn’t they?” is a good question. I do think that the schools should step it up to beat them. Crazy how D4 hasn’t caught up to them. You’d think more teams would be like “enough’s enough!”

    My hope is that, regardless of outcome, they get enough points to be in 3A. Looking at this year, they got beat by good 3A teams in their district, & Wyomissing would stack up nicely against them. Maybe one of the 3A private schools, too.

    Also @ Kevin X,

    Lakeland wasn’t entirely overrated. The injury bug got them at the wrong time. I think a healthier team would’ve made it all they way to Southern. I don’t think they’d have the team to beat them, but they were really good.

  174. Kmac says:

    Random musings on the coming state championships.

    First, a new house for the next four years – Cumberland Valley High School stadium in, or near, Mechanicsburg. It is about 20-26 miles west of Hershey on the other side of the Susquehanna, about a half-hour or 45 mins further west. Not significant in time or distance and the stadium appears to be able to hold the crowds that have attended these games in recent years. Of this years entrants, Harrisburg and Bishop McDevitt have certainly played there.

    I like to see “new faces” among the entrants and this year we have four first-time entrants – from the West side Union (1A); Westinghouse (2A); Belle Vernon (3A); and from the East – Neuman-Goretti (3A). This makes the 3A game between two first-year entrants. And Westinghouse from D8 is that district’s first entrant in 24 years and only the 2nd team ever from District 8. And NG is the first new team from D12 since 2013 when Imhotep first appeared.

    That said, we have five returnees from last year in St. Joe’s, Imhotep, Bishop McDevitt, Aliquippa, and Southern Columbia. This makes one rematch from last year in 4A – McDevitt versus Aliquippa. The remaining three teams return from prior years other than last year and include Harrisburg, Pine-Richland, and Steelton-Highspire, commonly referred to as Steel High.

    As to matchups I think the 2A bout between D4’s Southern Columbia’s top participating and championship holder school and D8’s Westinghouse could be a classic. Opinions have been that it will just be “another day at the office” for SCA, but Westinghouse brings a strong opponent to the table. First, they are responsible for the one loss on the 1A entry Steel High’s record this year. And their defense has allowed three TDs to Steelton in beating them and two TDs each in only two other games; otherwise no more than 8 points to 11 other opponents including 6 playoff games. Impressively in the playoffs they met undefeated Berlin-Brothersvalley, who had shutout 8 of their 11 opponents and allowed 6 tds in 11 games, and Westinghouse prevailed 59-7! I do not see any easy win for either side here.

    Prevailing opinion seems to be that the Hawks of St. Joe’s Prep will not be troubled winning their next Chip. This may be truth in fact as there is no doubt that they appear on the field as “men among boys” to most opponents, and match their size with talent, coaching, mindset, routine, speed, and lots of prospects for D1 college ball.

    Again, just from all I read and see, Aliquippa is also given a strong nod in the 4A contest. The Quips have been here 8 previous times in several classes and are 4-4 overall. However, it has been said that this is their strongest outfit in years.

    In 5A we have Imhotep versus Pine-Richland. From what I read the key is for the PR outfit they took a 1-3 season start and have greatly improved since that time; peaking at the right time is the adage. Imhotep is certainly no stranger; however wins have not flowed to them in that they are 1-5 in their 6 prior outings across 4 classifications.

    The 3A match will be two “newcomers” versus each other in Neuman-Gorreti vs Belle Vernon. I have seen BV mentioned as the “strongest D7” competitor in some cases. NG is a bit of an enigma to me. I happened to see one of their losses and they were far from impressive in that, marred by mistakes and penalties in their own backyard South Philly site. However some speed was certainly apparent for them.

    As to participating districts, only 5 of 12 districts are here in 2022. There are two D7-D12 matches; two D7-D3 matches; one D3-D13; and one D4-D8. Representatives are four from D7; 3 each from D3 and D12; one D4 and one D8 vs each other.

    I hope all teams do their best, play smart and clean, escape injury, and may the best effort in each game get the gold.

    I won’t lay any predictions out there as I often say, “My brain is where knowledge goes to die!”

  175. GaryZ says:

    @ Pennsyltucky Pride
    I do not see SCA dealing with the size, speed and overall skill of Westinghouse. Potent passing n running the ball, Great QB. O-Line is huge. The D plays so fast n physical, plus hit like nobody I have seen in 10 years. This is not Farrell or Wilmington, trust me. Think more of Steel Valley who SCA couldn’t handle. Not saying it will be a game like that one. But ‘The House beats SCA Thursday. My humble opinion.

  176. phillyboy says:

    Man oh man, what’s up with Garnet Valley? 48-0 at the half, eesh, obviously Prep unloaded their bench in the second half. Otherwise they literally could have hung a C note on them. And that’s the best District 1 has to offer? You know what would have been hilarious, if they ‘opted out’ like some teams did against Erie Prep. I’m half kidding but you know what, I’m darn near half serious. If your prospect is to play a team that’s literally a hundred points better, an utter humiliation, heck, a protest forfeit might be a little more gratifying. Because let’s be real the final score, 48-7, is a total fraud, had the starters remained for the entire game they would have hit triple digits — that’s what’s salient.

    Otherwise, is there any chance SJP could enter the Geico Bowl Series after the state final, would the PIAA be cool with that if they received an invite?

  177. Kevin X says:


    I’ll mark you down as a no. Fair enough, some good points.

    I have no ill will or animosity towards Wyo. Totally neutral, no dog in their fight.

    To be clear tho, as Foleman stated, that was no Hail Mary at the end. They did show great moxie retaking the lead in the final two minutes after NG went ahead, albeit with the usual help from NG shooting themselves in the foot with penalties. But after taking the lead, to let a team score with 30 seconds, with one time out, and arguable one of the top 3 offensive players in D12 on the sidelines, is not good look. Yes, they were very lucky to be even playing yesterday. Great season, great run, regroup for next year.

    @ ScottyB

    Yes it was and it is.

    @ Henry

    Your proposal??

  178. Brian says:

    @D2 Fan, what kind of commute would SCA need to make on a weekly basis to play 4A and 5A schools? Please, look at the geography and tell me which city hours away you think wants to travel there or that they should travel to?
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they’re presently only sitting a few kids above single A and their enrollmentis dropping. This present team is one nobody saw making it past the district championship, but now that they improved they should play schools four times their enrollment? The logic is kind of lost on me. Why shouldn’t the other 2A schools up their game if they can’t compete?

  179. Henry says:

    Past time to separate the recruiting schools

  180. FrankG says:

    @ Pennsy… I think of the Schuylkill as more of an east west rather than a north south river, but I realize that depends on what part of the river you’re looking at, In any case, Germantown and Chestnut Hill are part of what I guess you could call NW Philly. My point is that the Inter-Ac schools, with the exception of MP are 15-20 minutes from one another by car. They’re a long way–not just geographically–from Mayfair, Ridley, Lansdale, etc. SJP gets students from all over the Delaware Valley. I don’t think that’s at all true of the Inter-ACs. The PCL covers a much larger gedographic area than the Inter-AC and I think that appeals to the Prep.

  181. Ryan says:

    Imhotep’s offense is meh, honestly they should’ve lost to Upper Dublin, UD out played them the second half.

    Coaching has to be better for Imhotep if they win it all.

    Find it funny that not one person had a problem with Prep losing in the final, but win they win it’s issue.

  182. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    @610: Congrats, I tip my hat to NG. Good luck to your son next week.
    @Frank G: Of the 6 Inter-Acs, 3 are on the W side of the river (Hav, MP, EA) and 3 are on the E side of the river (GA, PC, SCH), just as a clarification on your geography.
    I believe Westinghouse will give SCA a run for their money, but in the end, SCA will do what it does best; that is the collection of rings.

  183. ScottyB says:

    Congrats to former District one and Downingtown West standout, Will Howard on leading Kansas State to the Big 12 Championship today. Always great to see local kids performing well at the next level.

  184. Foleman says:

    Just watched the last TD by NG, NG was at Wyo’s 44 yard line, Wyo had 7 in the box and 2 safeties about 10 yards off the ball while covering no one with their Cornerbacks covering NG’S receivers one on one with a few seconds to go. My God, I knew where the ball was going the minute the ball was snapped, Wolfrum said it was a blown coverage which is an understatement. Lucky for the Wyo defensive coordinator this isn’t college or the pro’s, he would be unemployed the minute he got off the bus.

  185. FrankG says:

    @ Matt, I’m a Prep alumnus too and see where you’re coming from. I also think that if other years were like this year, your argument would be stronger but in every year but the really odd Covid one (2020) the Prep has not had the series of blowout playoff games that they’ve had this year. Maybe next week’s game will be different. I’d rather it be a game where the outcome isn’t known before halftime and I think the Prep players and coaches would agree.

    About what you’re suggesting: I’m not sure it’s possible for the Prep to leave the PCL for one sport and stay in for all the others (where it does not dominate except for rowing, a sport in which only a few PCL schools compete). And I wonder whether LaSalle and Roman would want them to leave for football since, at least in LaSalle’s case, the game with SJP is by far the biggest game of the year.

    As for joining the Inter-Ac, the main obstacle would be the Inter-Ac’s culture, which it is very proud of and attached to. Their football teams don’t travel, seem to play nearly all their league games on afternoons (not so difficult for families since they are all in the same geographical areas–on the western side of the city and in the western suburbs (e.g. none in Bucks or Montgomery counties), and appear to want the football season to end by mid-November–Malvern’s last game this year was Nov. 11. And I just can’t see the six Inter-AC schools (which have been the same for a century) welcoming SJP to their tea parties.

    The problem with trying to play an independent schedule is that all the schools that you might think of and that are within 150 miles (the North Jersey Catholic schools like Bergen Catholic, Bosco, St. Joe’s Montvale, and St. Peter’s Prep and the the DC area schools like St. John’s, Good Counsel, DeMatha, and Gonzaga) are members of leagues and so pretty much all their weeks in October and November are filled with league games (regular season and playoffs). Of course the Prep has played most of these teams at least once, but always in September when schools have some availability. Some schools (like IMG in FL and St. Frances in MD) are willing to fly around the country for games against high-profile (and sometimes not-so-high profile) opponents, but the Prep thinks one long trip a year is pretty much its limit, which I think is sensible.

    It’s interesting to note that the team that beat SJP at the start of the year (St. Thomas Aquinas) is in a league with public schools and not all of their victories are by large margins, Remember also that Erasmus Hall, a public school from Brooklyn, gave the Prep a very good game in early September.

  186. 610 says:


  187. David Mika says:

    He threw a punch and got ejected from the game. I think if that happens you can’t play the next game.

  188. mcd 65 says:

    Congrats to NG!!!! Huge win .@ Dave Mika, so whats with Shawn Battle possibly being ineligible for the biggest game in schools history ?????

  189. EmanD3 says:

    @ Kevin X

    When a team like Wyo, who is 41-3 the last 3 years, with 2 state title appearances and a semi final appearance, loses on a Hail Mary with 8 sec left, from 45 yds….I would doubt anyone but you thinks they were overrated this year. Sounds to me like you just don’t like them for some reason. It’s a crappy way to lose, but it is what it is….know they know what Danville felt like last week

  190. Foleman says:

    From Paul Roberts who was covering the Wyo/NG Game:

    Paul Roberts
    I’ve been covering high school sports for nearly 25 years. Don’t know that I’ll ever see a more thrilling finish than Wyomissing vs. Neumann-Goretti.

    A tip of the cap to both teams. Outstanding effort!

    3 Touchdowns scored in the last 2 minutes of the game, you just don’t see that in High School Football. 610 Fill us in!

  191. D2 Fan says:

    The season is over among District 2 teams. It was a tall task for Crestwood to beat McDevitt, anyway. No one thought they’d make it that far, so I tip my cap to the Comets on a great season.

    Other observations

    – I honestly thought Port Allegany would have the advantage over Union. It’s mind-blowing how the #11 seed in 1A WPIAL will play for a title in Mechanicsburg. When was the last time that low of a seed ever made it that far? I feel like it’s recent, but I don’t think it happens that often. Steel-High is going to be a tough matchup for them. Then again, what do I know? Union Area is playing great team football right now.

    – That Wyomissing/Neumann-Goretti outcome was a stunner. Would Belle Vernon be favored in that one?

    – Westinghouse/Steel Valley looked to be a great game. I hope Westinghouse can match up with Southern Columbia. Then again, Southern will likely mercy rule their way to another state title.

    – I know it will never happen, but I honestly think Southern should pull a Kennedy Catholic like move & play 4/5A in the upcoming two-year cycle. I’d love to see what they do against higher level competition. If Quips can do what they’re doing in 4A, I wouldn’t be shocked if Southern did the same at that level. I’m sure the same issues with Aliquippa would fall into Southern’s hands, when it came to why they protested the success factor move, but voluntarily moving up to a higher level could make their state playoff run a bit more of a challenge.

    Before I go,
    – Heck of a career for the Canton seniors. Hate that both of Steel-High’s last two wins were against those two teams. Both would’ve been great representatives for East PA 1A.
    – Central (Martinsburg) gave Belle Vernon a much better fight than I thought they would. Can’t wait for how the Mountain League teams will handle the LHAC, moving forward.
    – ACC looked like they made it a game early, but Aliquippa might be the best program in the state not named St. Joe’s (& that’s coming from someone who absolutely can’t stand private schools playing in the state playoffs, & even wrote a paper on it back in college).
    – Didn’t really follow along on the other games, but fingers crossed Harrisburg & Pine-Richland stun the world.

  192. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…That is a good question. Based on the rule he may not be.

  193. Kevin X says:

    Will NG’s Shawn Battle be eligible to play next Saturday??

  194. Kevin X says:

    Do I have permission to add Wyomissing to my list of most overrated teams in eastern PA this year?? They will join Lakeland and North Penn.

    Ironic that I sat thru a scrimmage between two of those teams back in August.

  195. 610 says:

    I want to hear all about this Quinton Martin guy????

  196. 610 says:


  197. 610 says:


  198. Kevin X says:

    @ Paul White

    Yup, 100%

  199. GaryZ says:

    I like the teams who will represent the West. Got my picks right, didn’t see Westinghouse pulling away from a VERY GOOD Steel Valley team that easy. That team has speed to burn, size and a NASTY D, that really likes to hit. Pine Richland was just to big, to fast and to strong for Cocalico. Not to mention, P-R is so well coached. Union didn’t shock me, coaching makes a difference, they are well coached. The ‘Quips did what the ‘Quips do, make it look easy. Belle Vernon looked awesome in second half, shutting out Martinsburg. Loving the fact that 4 WPIAL Teams and 1 Pgh. City League team will be representing the West. All 5 teams are very good, I like are chances. But not making my predictions yet, some good teams from the East.

  200. Paul White says:

    Good game between Upped Dublin and Imhotep tonight. UD had its chance to take the lead at the end but fumbled the snap on 4th down on TEPS 25 yd line.
    Imhotep has a lot of nice players but they aren’t as good a team as they should be with the talent they have. Offense is meh. They get by with individual talent. I’ll pick Pine Richland in the final
    UD was probably giving 70 lbs a man up front but did a nice job defensively against TEPS o-line despite the size difference.
    O’Sullivan is a very good QB. He’s fun to watch..

  201. Wpialguy says:

    Packed house at West Mifflin for the 2A semi final between Westinghouse and Steel Valley. Estimated crowd of over 4,000.

  202. Kevin X says:

    @ Wpialguy


    I myself will be down at Wissahickon HS for Imhotep/Upper Dublin. If the game wasn’t a few minutes away, I’d find myself at the Souderton gym for their annual tipoff tournament. Been seeing a lot this week of people getting bent out of shape with basketball and the winter sports season is starting today, raining on their football parade and feeling for all of the poor football players who won’t be playing basketball this weekend. They make it sounding like there with be 4 players on the hoops roster and that when the plethora of kids coming off of the football season that they won’t be ready to play basketball. Maybe someone also needs to remind these folks that the girls winter sports season starts today as well, zero to do with football. Amazing and hilarious.

  203. Matt says:

    I will preface this by saying I am an SJP alum. So, I do love to see their success. They most definitely recruit, but at this point, with how much success they have had, if you are a stud 8th grade football player why would you not want to go there? Basically, if you start you will go D-1 and you are essentially guaranteed at least 1 state title over your 4 years.

    That being said, I think if SJP really wants to achieve what seems to be their goal of being a perennial national power like the Bishop Gorman’s, IMGs, or Mater Dei’s of the world, they would be better served leaving the PIAA. As much as I love winning state titles, it is getting to the point that it seems like they need a new end of year goal. While there are other teams in the state that can challenge them, it seems like it takes other school’s “once in a decade” type of team to compete with them. Even I have to admit it seems a little unfair for a school to go up against the talent and size assembled by Prep. If you look at their roster, their back up o-line is all 6ft+ 250lbs+. That is insane for a high school team.

    I think that the best move for Prep, and what from what it sounds like would really appease the rest of the state, would be to remove themselves from the PIAA. I know the PCL has a tremendous amount of tradition and Prep is one of the founding members. While that would be sad to lose, escaping the PIAA would allow for them to schedule even more national programs. Ideally, they could join the Inter-Ac, which would also help the academic prestige, which is important to Prep. Inter-Ac might not be interested however, and some kind of independent status might also work.

    Interesting to see if Prep would consider such a move. As someone who went there, the school’s philosophy is essential to always keep accepting new harder challenges. I would think at this point they have to be close to realizing the rest of the PIAA isn’t able to keep up and other challenges could await.

  204. Jeff H. says:

    @610 – BV has plenty of other very good high school players, but when you have the top ranked recruit in the state he tends to overshadow everyone else on the team. BV is going to have their hands full with a very good Central Martinsburg team who has a QB who has thrown for 3,768 yards this season with 50 TD’s and set the state record last year with 57 TD passes, so Martin is going to be a very important factor in the secondary this game.

    There is no doubt NG is an underdog against Wyomissing, but that doesn’t mean they can’t upset them, look at Union in the WPIAL, they were a #10 seed and no one thought they were going to get to the district final let alone beat Bishop Canevin last week, same with Cocalico, they were a #12 seed and very few thought they would upset Exeter.

  205. Foleman says:

    610, Wolfrum has coached against 2 Crosbie coached teams-TEP and NG and I love Albie, however, the total combined scores of those 2 games was 77-19. Wyo scored 6 straight TD”S 42 points against NG last year, it looked like men vs boys out there. However, never underestimate the power of emotion, NG will remember last years blow out and is playing on their home turf. I am expecting a closer game than last year but only 1 team has beaten WYO the last 3 years Central Valley, and they were one of the best AAA teams I have seen in a long time.

  206. GaryZ says:

    Here are my picks coming from the West.

    Union over Port Allegheny

    Westinghouse over Steel Valley ( honestly think this is for the State Champ.) Teams are so close, could flip a coin. Happy to see either win, both from the Westside. But would enjoy seeing the ‘House finish the dream season.

    Belle Vernon over C. Martinsburg

    ‘Quips over Allentown C.C.

    P-R over Cocalico

    Yes I am bias to the WPIAL/City League, but honestly feel this is how it shakes out. Next week is different, deal w that tomorrow. Best luck to all teams East n West.

  207. The Joneses says:

    @Paul White.. Almost, there have a been few students to attend NP and not pick up move. They provided a multiple occupancy form, which basically means you have someone who actually lives in the NP school district sign a form saying they live there and at their normal address with the their parents. One utility bill to substantiate the residency in the district and magic happens.

    Unsure how many other districts have this policy. It was big in Philadelphia when I was kid. So NP, No move and no tuition. “Not comparable by a long shot”.

  208. Wpialguy says:

    Does every other state hold their state semi finals on basketball season opening night? I mean… what are we doing here?

  209. 610 says:

    @Pennsyltucky Proud, I backhanded slap Danville?!? I never said they were a bad team, all I said is majority of their wins were shutouts and as I looked at their schedule and scores, I thought, what is their competition like. If you read my comment, I never said any team was bad, every team plays soft teams.

    If Wyo beats NG 100-0, hey, the better team won. Then I would pick Wyo to win the CHIP, so I can say, we lost to the Champs. But if NG beat Wyo, then was it luck or Wyo was out coached?

    If NG and BV wins, everyone is going to pick BV to win. Then all I’m going to hear is about BV’s running back. Is that all they have because that’s the only player people on this forum talks about.

    NG isn’t going too lay down for any team.

  210. MCA75 says:

    My picks for this weekend:

    1A Canton over Steelton 41-35, Port Allegany over Union 21-20
    2A Southern over Trinity 41-20, Westinghouse over Steel Valley 28-21
    3A Wyo over NG 35-10, Belle Vernon over Central Martinsburg 31-20
    4A McDevitt over Crestwood 40-7, Quips over ACC 35-14
    5A Upper Dublin over Imhotep 21-14, Pine Richland over Cocalico 28-14
    6A SJP over Garnet Valley 42-7, Harrisburg over State College 35-21

  211. The Joneses says:

    @Jeff H I still bet on UD because Colin O Sullivan is a winner. I love the way he plays. I hope I am right.

  212. Paul White says:

    @Foleman… The Private Schools in the area are different today than they were 25-30 years ago. Most of the Catholic Schools had boundaries and there wasn’t this mindset that you had to play for certain teams to get noticed and recruited by colleges. The Catholic league teams that played in the 70’s-90’s were good but they wouldn’t stand a chance against the typical Prep and LaSalle teams that are put on the field today. Same for the inter-ac teams. They are much more competitive today. Top players from D1 get plucked away by these schools and dilute the talent pool.
    How people think is irrelevant. The record of who’s winning the past 20 years speaks for itself. The Publics are at a disadvantage. If the Prep wants me to play for them, I just go there at a discounted tuition. If North Penn wants me, my family needs to sell their house and move to their township. Not comparable by a long shot.

  213. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    @610 Good luck to your son but you’re backhanded slap against Danville was so wrong. Danville had an incredible team this year. I will be curious to see if NG does better against Wyo than Danv did. I suspect as @NEPA said, NG will fare no better against Wyo than it did against SCA about 5 yrs ago. But that’s why they play the game.

  214. Jeff H. says:

    @Bones – I saw him play 3 times last year and once this year against McKeesport and he is a stud, no doubt about it, he’s all over the field on defense and I think that’s where his future is at the next level, but he’s a pretty dynamic running back as well, he can change the game on 1 play, and don’t even think about punting of kicking off to him as you’re playing with fire, he had a great punt return for a TD last week at Acrisure Stadium against Avonworth in the WPIAL final.

    @610 – I’m not familiar with the NG coach but Bob Wolfrum with Wyomissing is one of the best coaches in state history and his record speaks for itself. Finishing up his 36th season he is 350-86-1, and the second-winningest active coach in Pennsylvania. He has won ten district titles, been to the state semifinals six times and finals three times, winning it all in 2012 and losing the last two years, to Central Valley. Wyomissing did hammer Cocalico this year who won the D3 5A title and is still playing this week, they also beat a pretty good Lampeter-Strasburg 4A team, as well as Berks Catholic and Pottsville, so it’s not like they’ve played a bunch of cream puffs every week. Good luck to your son and team this week but I think they are going to be overmatched by Wyomissing.

  215. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – I agree with you, it’s a mystery to me why DI hasn’t won a state title since Lansdale Catholic won 2A in 2004. Even when the PIAA flipped the brackets for 2 years so D12 (i.e. SJP) played the WPIAL winner in the semi-finals in 2018-19 the DI winner still lost to the D3 winner in the semi-finals. Like you mentioned the PCL and Inter-AC were siphoning off kids prior to D12 joining the PIAA in 2008, so there’s got to be other explanations for why DI football has not been as competitive on a state wide level for quite awhile. North Penn in 2016 was very good, and so was Coatesville the next few years, but neither of them could quite get over the hump. Maybe UD will surprise everyone and beat Imhotep, I do think that game is going to be a lot closer than most people expect, but GV is probably going to get mercy ruled again by SJP, we’ll see.

  216. 610 says:

    Why are yall taking shots at players and coaches? What makes Wyomissing coach better than NG coach? Are you guys writing NG off because of what happen last year, a lot of you had Scranton Prep and NL beating NG and no one said anything NG won both games. When they played NL, alot of you were saying , “Cade Christopher is going to run all over NG”. From what I saw, he probably had close to 50-60 yds rushing and 1 TD, he got hurt in the game and I hope he’s doing ok. As far as Wyomissing, who did they beat this year, their toughest game this year was Danville, so what does that tell you about their competition. They shutout 9 out of 12 opponents during the regular season. Alot of people get fooled by records, I look at competition. When you guys get a chance, look at Danville and Wyomissing schedule, look at the scores. Don’t get me wrong, everyone plays bad teams, that’s just what it is. BV also, they have 2 loses but look at who they played, they shutout majority of the teams they played. If Wyomissing beat NG, the best team won. And if you haven’t figured it out, I have a kid who plays for NG.

  217. Bones says:

    @Jeff H. Looking forward to the Belle Vernon Wyo matchup. Haven’t seen much of Quinton yet but just looking at highlights, he’s an absolute monster. For how big he is, he can still change directions really well and still run away from people. And he’s only a junior haha

  218. The Joneses says:

    @All the SJP haters. NE PA basically Any can beat SJP (A Philly Team) because they don’t want to get hit by running down hill on them. I couldn’t help to have fun with that comment.

    On another note I was surprised hearing from a parent from Texas that he feels we in PA and Ohio hit differently (better) than in Texas. I was shocked since Texas is considered a hot bed for football.

  219. NE PA says:

    @mcd 65. I’m not insulting the players by any means. Goretti is not used to power football (the kind that Wyo will bring to the table tomorrow). They’re used to just outrunning everyone and not getting smacked in the mouth every down. Over the years, it’s very apparent that once you get a team like that down, they will quit and roll over. Seen it with Southern Columbia and Wyo over the years. Just go back to last year’s matchup when Goretti went right down the field and scored on their first drive. Wyo gets the ball and goes right down the field and scores then they get a stop and its 35 straight points and a mercy rule. If you get them down and continue to pound the football, it’s over.

  220. Foleman says:

    Paul White “I think a lot of people in District 1 value the district championship more than ever” There’s the problem, if you don’t think you are good enough to beat the best, you will lose. District 1 had several State Champs back in the day-N.Penn, Strath Haven, Lansdale Catholic, Neshaminy, CB West-(4) Downingtown when they were 1 school. District 1 has more 6A and 5A schools than anywhere in the State, they should be churning out Powerhouse teams every year. What happened? The Catholic League and Inter-Ac were around then too and it didn’t affect the Pubs, something changed over the years and I don’t have an answer for what happened to District 1 football.

  221. Jeff H. says:

    I too see Wyomissing winning this game by at least 2 scores, if not more, but let’s wait until we crown them state champs, they will still likely have to beat Belle Vernon in the final, and district 3 is 0-5 against WPIAL teams in the 3A state final since we switched to 6 classes in 2016, with Middletown losing the first 3 and of course Wyomissing losing the last 2 years to Central Valley. Assuming Belle Vernon does win this week the rest of the state will get introduced to Quinton Martin, who is the top ranked recruit in the state of PA in the class of 2024 and can pretty much pick wherever he wants to go to college.

  222. mcd 65 says:

    @ NE PA, I agree with you about Wyomissing beating NG by a wide margin ,Your comment about not wanting to be hit is insulting and just ridiculous. NG does not have the coaching to get them beyond a first round imo.. Do some home work on their players success at the Division ! level. They certainly didnt get there not wanting to be hit. Make your point without insulting players. Thanks

  223. Paul White says:

    I think a lot of people in District 1 value the district championship more than ever. They realize with the private schools in the way in getting to the final, it’s unlikely they get there. Most people expect D1 to lose in the semis

  224. NE PA says:

    @EmanD3 I believe Wyo will run Goretti into the ground fairly easily. Once Wyo gets the wing-t going, I believe at some point Goretti will say they’ve had enough and pretty much lay down. Very similar to last year and previous years. Most of those teams from Philly just want to outrun you and don’t want to get hit. But once they meet a team like Wyo/Southern Columbia who will just come at you all game running downhill, it gets apparent that they don’t want to tackle anymore. And I believe Wyo is just simply a better team, more disciplined and well coached.

  225. Foleman says:

    EmanD3, NG had the same guys last year and got run over by Wyo, unless their coaches can some how find a way to slow down the WingT Wyo probably wins by at least 2 TD’S. Even with all of that talent NG lost to the 3 best teams on their schedule while Wyo blew out the District 3 5A champ Cocalico and beat a tough Lampeter squad and a very talented Danville team. Wolfrum is one of the best coaches in the State and has beat very talented teams in the past like Alliquippa and Imhotep so he will have a plan for NG. I think Wyo brings home the Gold this year.

  226. DonR says:

    @EmanD3 Wyo will play team ball and NG will hang for a quarter and get wore down and frustrated just as SC exploited them several years ago. Wyo 42- NG 14

  227. EmanD3 says:

    What’s everyone’s thoughts on the Wyomissing/Neumann Goretti game on Friday?

    I saw NG has six D1 guys and their D is giving up 48 yds rushing per game, and 2.1 yds per rush. Plus barely giving up 110 yds total/game. Pretty impressive!

    Wyo is averaging 326/game on the ground. Have punted 13x in 13 games. They have two RB’s over 1,000 and another with 850. Their last two games they have rushed for 950 yds and 11 TD’s. Those two teams had a combined record of 23-1…sounds like it could be a real slobberknocker! Something has got to give.

  228. Jeff H. says:

    What everyone is missing in this whole debate about setting up brackets and separating publics and privates is the individual districts would have to give up having their own championships, which I know the WPIAL and I assume district 3 and district 1 in particular would not be in favor of doing, I can’t imagine the WPIAL ever agreeing to a system that would eliminate the WPIAL playoffs which they have been holding for decades longer than the state tournament. The PIAA has to manage its tournament around the district playoffs, and I don’t foresee that changing anytime soon, if ever.

    I think the vast majority on this board agree it was a big mistake for the PIAA to go to 6 classes in 2016, but I doubt they will ever admit that, you could fix many but certainly not all of the problems that plague the tournament now if you went back to 4 or at most 5 classes.

  229. The Joneses says:

    @FrankG the JCo is mentioning is one I have heard as well. I have no idea why people think that. Way to run the history.

    @Philly_Plug215 I like that idea also. Teams that don’t give into the narrative are teams the either beat SJP/LaSalle or perform at very high level and make it a great game.

  230. Philly_Plug215 says:

    PIAA needs a ranking bracket instead of east and west so many missed opportunities for a great tourney instead of east and west take top 16 programs that have no problem drawling kids in or getting kids to play for them like Quips Tep Hawks Pine PCC Lasalle Roman NA Mcdevitt etc these schools have no problem obtaining high level players that’s why Quips (1a-2a) school can play 4a and compete. Again Tep is a (3a) school plays competitive in 5a not because they recruit but because kids actually wanna play there and the same can be said bout any of the schools listed above. Not only would these schools compete @ a high level but the games would be more exciting. Let the traditional power houses slug it out against each other for a PIAA open division title. This league will also be a non boundary league. PIAA should only have 5 division making the 5th an open division. Also if there is another school dominating in 1a-4a the success factor should move them into the 16 man tourney in the open division and the worst team in the open division moves back to its respectable classification. For instance if Parkland dominated 4a and won its title 3 years in a row they would move to 5a open division and let a team struggling in open division drop down to play in there respectable classification. The way it set up now Philadelphia talent pool gets watered down bad from Philadelphia city championship. Teams like Roman and Lasalle get sniffed by SJP AND TEP when really they should have been in the tourney to add a competitive play. Only way I see PIAA football getting better.

  231. FrankG says:

    @JCo I don’t know where you get the idea that the LaSalle-SJP game was ever considered the “real final.” From 2008 to 2012, LaSalle was the PCL rep in the big school classification and only in 2009 did they win a state championship and in only one other year were they in the final. In 2013, SJP was considered by most the decided underdog in the state final against PCC. In 2014 they beat LaSalle in a blowout but had very close games against Parkland and P-R. In 2015 LaSalle won the PCL again but lost to Parkland in the quarter-finals. Are you getting the picture? No reason to think of the PCL championship as the real state final. In 2016 SJP won a very tight semi-final game against North Penn–a much closer game than the earlier LaSalle game. In 2017 there was all the anticipation of playing Coatesville and P-R, the latter in unquestionably the “real” final. In 2019 the PCL championship game against LaSalle was a blowout, but the semi-final against PCC was a classic. In 2020 and 2021, the Prep blew out LaSalle again in the championship games, but of course M-L won the “real final” last year.

    I agree that the public-private debate is more nuanced than many recognize.

  232. JCo says:

    In the discussion about the role of privates, I want to provide the following perspective: in many years, the game between SJP and La Salle was considered the “real final”, and yet the champion still had to slog through multiple additional weeks to be declared the state champion, and the loser goes home early. This is a game that deserves to be played much closer to the actual final. A private-only bracket would allow more of eastern PA to be mixed together, allowing schools to play across boundary lines for the right to advance. These games would be hotbeds for potential college recruits. Sure, there might be more travel per game, but that can easily be offset by simply having fewer total rounds.

    The public/private debate is more nuanced that just the publics avoiding perceived heavyweights. The private schools could stand to benefit quite a bit as well.

  233. MikeS says:

    @Pennsyltucky Proud – must be a REAL Minimal as 2 of the parents are single moms, and one has several kids, parents don’t have it & she’s really struggling, so it’s got to be bare minimum. That was my conversation with her, how do you afford it? “Well it doesn’t cost me a dime” is what I was told.

  234. Jeff H. says:

    @D2 Fan – I agree with all your picks, so that’s probably the kiss of death for some of these teams!

    In 6A I’ve been saying all year it would be Harrisburg vs. SJP, and with the way Harrisburg has played the last several weeks I think they beat SC and avenge their regular season loss, just like they did with Manheim Township last week

    In 5A Pine Richland is on a roll and I think they beat Cocalico by a few scores this week and have a legitimate chance to beat Imhotep in the final, never thought I would be saying that a couple of months ago when they started 1-3 and looked disjointed on offense

    In 4A the much anticipated rematch happens, I think both Aliquippa and McDevitt are better than last year, and that should be a tremendous game next week

    Belle Vernon has been the favorite to make it from the West all season, just like Wyomissing in the East, no surprises there

    Westinghouse vs. Steel Valley will be a battle and the game I am going to see since it’s being played 10 minutes from my house, its’ been 20 years since a WPIAL team played a Pittsburgh city league team in the state semifinals, I said yesterday I think Westinghouse will win, goes without saying So Columbia will be there for the 8th year in a row

    In 1A the dream run has to end for Union sometime, upset winners in the WPIAL finals sometimes struggle the following week in the state playoffs, as it’s tough to come back from the emotional high of winning at Acrisure Stadium (still feels weird typing that and not Heinz), Bishop Canevin lost in this round last year, and I think Union loses to Port Allegany, hard to go against Steelton, I’ve thought all year they were the best team in 1A.

  235. D2 Fan says:

    After all of the jinxes, this is who I see making it to Mechanicsburg next week

    1A: Steel-High vs. Port Allegany
    2A: Southern Columbia vs. Westinghouse
    3A: Wyomissing vs. Belle Vernon Area
    4A: Bishop McDevitt vs. Aliquippa
    5A: Imhotep vs. Pine-Richland
    6A: St. Joe’s vs. Harrisburg

    I’d love to see Crestwood, Upper Dublin, & Garnet Valley take a page from Union Area & take down the private school powers, but this isn’t the year.

    If I’m wrong, so be it.

  236. The Joneses says:

    @JC you also made some good points. The bowl games are the best Idea I have heard yet. It gives the non-happy side an avenue to win a championship of sorts and then you have one for best team in the state (bowl game). I like it.

    I am sure everyone sadly believes public schools don’t recruit. If the public HS coach says to any 8th grader somethin on the lines of ,” that will be you in year when you come play for me”. Guess what that’s called. You guessed it. Sure you can say they wouldn’t have to do it if there weren’t other options, but who really wants their to not be other options. 2 sons, 2 experiences, HS coaches recruit. Period. I don’t need to guess, assume or fabricate a story. Now people can be naive and think this is few and far between and you can also believe your pictures are stored in cumulus clouds you see floating by in the sky.

  237. The Joneses says:

    It must be state playoff time because we are back on the separate playoffs to make things fair. Does anything if it was deemed unfair when the PCL joined the PIAA it would have gone through? I was thinking about this two weeks ago when SJP was facing Northeast. The public league teams, parents, players get hit the hardest. They loose to the SJP or LaSalle year in and year out. The last public school district 12 Champion was in 2008. No MT Leebo, no Pine Richland, no parkland knocking out LaSalle in 2015. Yet they play on. No tweets saying we play a school that recruits and “we actually have to go class”. I found the second part hilarious. I guess it’s easy for someone to say they don’t care enough. Once you make a more for the privates, the charter schools will have to be next, but since there is currently only one school fitting that mold, and they don’t always come home with the trophy, I guess there’s time there.

    @KevinX laid out so good points on this as usual.

  238. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    @BigBoy: I’m not trying to antagonize but merely trying to edify here. Those big Catholic schools (LaSalle, SJP) charge close to 26K/yr, not 10K. For perspective/reference, the Inter-Acs cost approx 43K/yr now. I believe @814FB was chirpin’ the other day about BG in Altoona charging 13K/yr. Well, the Inter-Acs (MP, GA, etc) were charging that for Pre-K back in the mid-00s. BUT, and again not trying to antagonize but merely to clarify, @Mike S, even the “free-riders” hv to pay a little or as these schools define it, “what it is deemed they can afford.” If those undefiined Cath schools charge not one cent, then that is news to me.
    PS: Was heartbroken for Danville.

  239. FrankG says:


    You may have mentioned only ECP, but the great majority of what I read here and elsewhere about how unfair mixing the private schools and the public schools focuses on SJP–not Scranton Prep, Bishop McDevitt, Bonner-Prendergast, PCC, ACC, etc. Isn’t this the case? As far as I can tell, few if any are saying that ECP’s problem would best be addressed by having them play only other Catholic schools in the playoffs. The change that would solve lots of problems with the playoffs would be going back to four classifications. Going to five would help, but not as much.

    And tell me how going to separate public and private playoffs will make PA teams more competitive when playing teams from other states. Are Jersey’s public school teams better because they have “public” and “non-public” classifications?

  240. Kevin X says:

    @ JCo

    My two disclaimers, I have no problem with a separate playoffs for public boundary schools and private/non boundary schools. But one, hoops first. Second, still waiting on a reasonable, fair, workable solution for football. I’ll accept your reasonings (to a degree, rebuttals below), but they don’t move the needle for me as “issues” to proceed with separate football playoffs.

    First: There are 24 5A and 6A schools in the WPIAL, 29 total in D7, D8 and And D10. If you can’t figure out scheduling with that many schools, that’s on you. A good number of 4A WPIAL teams that could be in the mix as well. That’s not a statewide private/public issue.

    Second: I don’t disagree that the competition formula has basically been a joke as implemented. But the PIAA is in the process of removing the transfer clause from the equation. Then it will be a straight forward success is success formula for everybody. We’ll see if it passes on the third and final reading, as it became fairly close on the second reading. I’ll guarantee you tho, if Southern Columbia wins another championship, it will pass. If you still want to tweak it for private/charter schools, use a multiplier factor like Alabama does.

    Third: This is lovely, so in your proposal you’d probably end up having ECP playing PCC every year in the first round of a large school private playoffs, it there is any geographically sense worked into that bracket. Then based on recent history, SJP winning that bracket year after year for the foreseeable future. Exciting. It’s time for the WPIAL and western large schools to come to grips with reality that demographics are changing, and not in their favor with respect to large schools (unless they actually start consolidating), and work out western sub regional brackets for 5A and 6A.

    Forth: Who cares at that point. What about the rest of the schools/classifications??

  241. MikeS says:

    @BigBoy, well I agree with you whole heartedly except for one point, and that is “Yes contrary to what everyone believes, every kid’s family pays something” NOPE I KNOW 3 young man that go to Catholic Schools and unless the parents are lying on all three occasions, they pay NADA, ZIPPO, NOTHING, & you know what I don’t think all 3 parents are lying.

  242. JCo says:

    @FrankG: I did not mention SJP in my post. In fact, there was a team I namedropped, but you conveniently ignored it. Seems like your mind is on SJP specifically. So my answer is yes, if SJP were taken out of the mix, my position would not change. We’re talking about playoffs here, travel is going to happen. If publics are that concerned with losing these showdowns, then shrink the playoffs and schedule in time for “bowl games” across public/private lines. There are creative solutions to this.

    @BigBoy: The “loser’s mentality” argument is lazy and tired. This is about allowing both publics and privates to reach their fullest potential without worrying about transfers, competitive balance measures, or whatever else people will complain about. The top teams in Pennsylvania REGULARLY lose to the top teams in neighboring states, we can’t pretend that having combined playoffs doesn’t play a factor in that. This is about coming up with creative solutions for the betterment of Pennsylvania football, not sticking with the old ways for tradition’s sake.

  243. BigBoy says:

    The “boundary / non-boundary” playoff talk needs to stop. It facilitates a loser’s mentality. Do Catholic schools recruit? Absolutely. And ya know what? Too bad. It’s not going to change.
    Places that complain about losing kids to charter/catholic schools need to sit down and look at their own programs and ask themselves “what are we doing to lose kids to schools where they have to pay $10k a year?” And yes, contrary to what everyone believes, every kid’s family pays something.

    I’ll use Parkland as an example. As soon as St. Joe’s beat LaSalle to get into the quarter finals, Parkland already began with the sob stories of how it’s not fair that they have to play them. “Their players are so big and fast, they all come from New Jersey, blah blah blah.” Instead of trying to rise to the occasion to win a big football game, it automatically turns to ‘let’s blame the catholic schools because we cant win’. Parkland has roughly 1700 boys in grades 9-12. I dont want to hear any part of anything being unfair to them. Get better. It’s plain and simple. Teach your kids to overcome adversity, not become a victim.

  244. GaryZ says:

    @Jeff H.
    I agree w your assessment of Westinghouse, the team is absolutely loaded. Huge upfront, speed to burn at all skills. I was VERY IMPRESSED W that D. Those LB’s are grown men. The entire D flys to the football, and those kids HIT! Very interested to see them vs Steel Valley. Either way being a Coach in the WPIAL, happy for either team who wins. Should make for a great game. Yes, either team should be the favorite regardless of who they play in finals. Can’t wait to watch this. Best of luck to both teams.

  245. FrankG says:

    @ JCo

    I wonder if the issue you are addressing is private vs public or SJP vs publics. If SJP were taken out of the mix (or decided themselves not to take part in the PIAA playoffs) would you still be in favor of such a big change? The solution you propose would separate Bishop McDevitt, PCC, ACC, BC, Scranton Prep, etc. from all the schools in their areas when it comes time for the playoffs, even though, as far as I can tell, nobody is saying there’s something unfair about these schools playing public schools at various stages of the playoffs. Your solution would also have private schools –with the exception of PCL schools in some cases–travelling very long distances for all playoff games.

    Also, think of how your plan would have played out last year. Garnet Valley was very keen to play SJP and many thought they were the favorite in the game. Something similar for Coatesville in 2017, North Penn in 2016, and Neshaminy in 2013.

  246. Irish1 says:

    @Scotty B…..yes should be interesting to see who both PJP and PV schedule to start the season next year. Its fun to see some new teams now and then.

  247. JCo says:

    @Kevin X:

    *Large Western PA publics have had issues with scheduling as the number of 6A and 5A publics have diminished. A 4-way split of the publics would reduce the level of segmentation.
    *Separating publics/privates for the playoffs would reduce the level of nonsense when it comes to trying to enact competitive balance rules, because now you’re comparing apples to apples. You can use different eligibility sets that suit private schools without having to worry about how they impact public schools, and vice versa.
    *I almost guarantee that Cathedral Prep’s “extended bye” would not have happened in a private-only bracket. The bracket would have been set up in such a way to prevent this from the beginning.
    *There could still be a “state championship” between the 6A public champion and the Large private champion, but at least this way you know it’s the best of the best of both. Nobody’s getting eliminated early by running into a buzzsaw.

    There’s nothing wrong with playing across private/public lines in the regular season, but keeping everyone together is like putting a square peg in a round hole. It just doesn’t provide maximum benefit to anyone.

  248. Jeff H. says:

    Wpialguy and I have been saying on this board all year to keep an eye on Westinghouse from the Pittsburgh City League/District 8, and on Saturday they totally dominated Farrell 34-6 to advance to the western finals against an undefeated Steel Valley team. Westinghouse has a great defense, holding Farrell to minus 3 rushing yards and only about 60 yards of total offense. Farrell was playing without their primary offense weapon in receiver Kylon Wilson, who was ejected from last weeks game and therefore ineligible to play in this game, and without him Westinghouse’s defense just totally shut down Farrell’s offense. I think Westinghouse beats Steel Valley this week and has a good chance to beat SC in the state title game to win the City League’s first state title since Perry Traditional Academy in 1989.

    @EmanD3 – the WPIAL team had to travel 2+ hours to get to Altoona for those games as well, so it’s not like Altoona is close to the WPIAL schools either, this week Aliquippa has a 3+ hour bus ride to Bald Eagle HS in Bellefonte to play ACC.

    @Kevin X – these sites are picked in advance, and I’m assuming Altoona is the site of the 6A game anticipating it would be a WPIAL team against the D3 winner like it is in most years, more often than not the 6A Western final game is at Altoona, last year Mt Lebo beat State College there, and in 2019 SJP beat PCC in OT after the epic TD catch by Marvin Harrison Jr. on 4th and 10 in the closing seconds of regulation to force OT.

  249. EmanD3 says:

    @ Kevin X

    I agree! Maybe the PIAA should cough up some more $ to host these games. I heard CV HS in D3 got over $1 mill to host the state championships for 4 years? There has to be a better way, prior to the finals, I would think….in 2012 and ’16 Wilson West Lawn had to travel 150 mi. to Altoona to play in the final 4. It was almost a 6 hr. drive, round trip, just for the fans. Imagine what that is like for the players/coaches and staff..
    Heck, I can drive to Cape May at the Jersey Shore in less than that time….It’s tough on a lot of teams.

  250. Kevin X says:


    Where do you suggest they play the game?? Better question, what suitable facility is available and willing to host?? N-G is on the top of the bracket, they get the better part of the deal, this year. Next year when the brackets are flipped, the same game will be/should be somewhere in D3. Schools/facilities are not knocking one another over to get to the front of the line in order to host a game this time a year. Fall sports are done, they shut them down. Focus is now on winter sports. How do you think Harrisburg feels having to travel out to Altoona?? Logic would have it you would think that their game with State College would be somewhere off of Rte. 322 between the two schools.

    @ JCo

    What are the “lot of issues” that would be solved at once??

  251. EmanD3 says:

    I understand why Wyomissing had to drive 75mi. to Danville last week…but why do they have to drive 50 mi. to Philly SS to play NG, who is only 14 mi. away? For the Final 4 it should be a bit more neutral….just my opinion

  252. JCo says:

    @Brian: I am in favor of splitting privates into separate brackets. Boundary AAAA, AAA, AA, and A, and Non-Boundary Large and Small. I think it solves a lot of issues at once.

  253. 3gs says:

    @Paul White. No, as I said before I had no dog in the fight. I wasn’t at the game and my comment from before could’ve been misled by the announcers of the game who were stating how chunks of turf were missing from the field and the goal post was messed up. My point is if that’s the case, then the piaa shouldn’t allow a state playoff game to be held there.

  254. Brian says:

    @MCA75 SCA’s stands were all collectively holding their breath as we got updates on the Danville game. That final 7 seconds had to be a ton of pressure on that kicker. We all let out a collective sad sigh when we heard his kick went wide. Poor kid. Though the stats looked as though Wyo was pretty dominant throughout the game, we know from experience that Danville can score quickly on you. We were all rooting for them. Wyo is just a beast of a team.

    I’ve honestly never heard of Trinity before this postseason. Though I’d never heard of the Executive charter one either. I still feel these private schools need their own league. I’m sure I’ll get crap for that opinion. Lol

  255. Paul White says:

    The South Phlly supersite is your basic turf field. It just doesn’t have your typical custom painted end zones and midfield because its used by more than one school. I was there a couple times. Nothing wrong with it. Calling it a dump is a reach. Sounds like somebody didn’t like driving from Lehigh County to lose.

  256. MCA75 says:

    @Brian I can honestly say I have never heard of anyone trying to take anyone out and if they did, I obviously don’t condone it. I still think its highly improbable to take someone out that way but ok.

    I saw the highlights from the SCA/BG game and was glad to see no nonsense like last week. For next week, It looks like Trinity’s losses were all to tough teams but I’d be surprised if this game is close for SCA.

    Also, its a shame for Danville to lose like that on a missed FG. I really feel for the kicker.

  257. 3gs says:

    The state playoff game between Neumann Goretti and Northwestern Lehigh was played in a dump. They were saying on the broadcast how bad it was and how in the world could the piaa allow a state playoff game to be held there. It looked horrible, horrible playing surface, goal post was bent. I don’t have any dog in the fight, but I’m sure fans that made the trip from Northwestern Lehigh to the super site in Philly weren’t happy

  258. Kevin X says:

    Any snowballs chance in you know where it can be arranged for a true District 1 Championship game next weekend between Upper Dublin and Garnet Valley?? Gonna be ugly otherwise for D1.

  259. D11 Matt says:

    Hell of a game by Northern Lehigh. They were in control and were eating clock until end of third qtr and then Steelton’s offense started getting big plays in very little time. They came back down 8 with 3 min to go and tied but too much time left with 27 seconds. Steelton scored TD with 4 sec left. Northern did what they needed to do….long drives and score and get a few stops. Just came up a little short. Steelton Canton(if they win) should be another great game next week in A eastern finals.

  260. D2 Fan says:

    Crestwood manages to beat Bonner-Prendie. D2’s lone team rolls on. Tall task for them to beat McDevitt, & possibly Aliquippa. Looking likely at a rematch of last year’s final.

    Also, gutted for Northern Lehigh. They were so close to forcing OT, but Steel-High steals it at the end. They played a fantastic game.

    Not a fan of the home field advantage in states, because I would’ve liked to have seen how this would’ve played out on a neutral site. Feel like the outcome would’ve been a bit different.

    Rough weekend for District 11, overall. This is why I think the EPC should play non-league games. Actually, maybe all of District 11 needs to go non-conference/district for a week. Saving grace for D-11 was Central Catholic, who I hope can challenge Aliquippa. Maybe the EPC South’s battle tested schedule can rival the powerhouses of 4A WPIAL.

    My jinx managed to get Northern Lehigh, Cathedral Prep, North Allegheny, & almost got Wyomissing, this weekend. I should just stop talking about teams, or making predictions. Then again, I am a weather enthusiast, so I have to love making predictions.

    Lastly, shoutout to Westinghouse. What a story! I’ll shut up before I say anything about their next matchup.

  261. Brian says:

    @814fball I think it’s a shame you only saw that game with a negative light. I saw many SCA players help BG players up after the plays. I also had to chuckle when your QB lost his towel on a play and Carter gave it back to him and patted him on the butt like he was from his team. To say that your team lost players and SCA didn’t is also not true. Defensively we lost one of our best players on the first play of the first game. Garcia would have reaked havoc on your QB all night had he been able to play. You play with what you have. Your line was getting pushed all night and I don’t see that one player as making a big enough difference on either side to change the results.

    BTW, after the game one of your fans stopped to tell us how impressed he was by SCA and how he felt they were superior in almost every area of the game. I told him your QB was definitely superior and you do have some great receivers. He felt this year’s BG team just didn’t really play as a team this year. He said you have a great group coming up in two years. I didn’t disappoint him by telling him that’s a group coming up in SCA that is also undefeated, so perhaps we’ll meet again in two years.

    Your comment that SCA should be forced to move up is just old at this point. They continue to do well with a declining enrollment. They couldn’t be forced to move up because they don’t have the transfers from out of the district that you do. I personally disagree with the practice of simply penalizing a team because they’re successful. It teaches that hard work and dedication have penalties. What kind of lesson is that to them or other teams? Are we giving away participation trophies next?

  262. Ed says:

    814fball. You keep saying is a shame I didn’t know how many great football players bg has this year. Well guess what, at this point in the season all the remaining teams have great players. That’s how they got to this point. You are right though that sca is not as good as they have been. This is definitely a down year for them, this is the year to knock them off, too bad bg couldn’t do it this year. I’d say this is the weakest sca team in the past decade, but they are playing the best ball they have this year.

    And I never said anything about bg recruiting. All private school can recruit, sca usually still goes through them. All schools that can and do recruit should play up a class to even things out a little. Especially small schools where one or two players can really have a big difference on a team. bg is playing where they should.

  263. Ed says:

    814fball. Injuries and sickness really aren’t an excuse. Sca has had a key player out the whole season. He’s not only a great all state linebacker but also was a running back this year. He won’t be back until next year. They also were without barnes most of the year. BG had a good year, but they were outplayed and outcoached. Imagine how much worse it could have been if sca cleans up their penalties. Sca had more speed on the field and played more physical. Sca’s coach says after they beat mca that the mca line was the best they’d see this year, and with how much sca was in the bg backfield i would tend to agree so far. When’s the last time you seen a football taken off a rb and returned the other way for a touchdown? That physicality resulted in some penalties, but also resulted in a win.

    And say what you want about sca not moving up, you realize that their enrollment is so small they couldn’t field a freshman team this year. And their enrollment is falling every year. They weren’t forced to move up because they do not have the number of transfers required to force the move. There’s more to the rule than just winning. This is a common complaint we hear when sca mercy rules a team that thought they could just show up and beat sca. BG really is a one man show by what I seen. I’m sure the team is full of good players, but you really only need to stop the qb and you stop the whole offense. They had a great season and should be proud, not bitter.

  264. Cobra01 says:

    @814fball. Guilfoyle was outplayed, plain and simple. You can recite all the excuses you want but after watching the game in person and the highlights on the news it’s clear as day. Defense wins championships and Southern has one heck of a defense.

    As far as the comments about Guilfoyle only having one player. I agree they have many other players but only one that they rely on. A simple look at their stats shows you this.

  265. Margaret says:

    814 football I dont care that you have no air conditioning and 5 kids had a cold. I wonder if you were to snap.your fingers and gwt all your hurt players back if southern could get garcia back to in your world of make believe

  266. Margaret says:

    I might be wrong but dont they still use a success and transfer formula to bump you up a class? If bishop guilfoyle is such a close tight nit group you would think they would have backing from alumni and have fundraisers during home footaball and sporting events that would get you ac in the school and help with tuition for students that it could help. If you dont have anything like this maybe its not so tight knit and u dont deserve an ac unit. Please bring the pics that you have as evidence that you dont recruit of kids that mostly all of us dont know and couldnt decipher who is who. Its ashame your not recruiting, your allowed to to an extent in pa.

  267. Helen Ann Long says:

    @815 You can make all of the excuses in the world for BG losing to SCA but what it comes down to is that SCA outplayed them, outcoached them and didn’t cry when they were down in the first half. And as far as all of the injury’s and bad colds go, every team has them and you have to learn how to play with adversity. SCA lost one of their best players on the first game of the season and another one half way through the season but they did what they had to do to make the team better with the players they had. BG had plenty of good players but they didn’t hold up against the run after being pounded the entire game. Maybe you should try a better conditioning program so you can last a whole four quarters. Watch the Eastern final next week and maybe you can get some tips from SCA on how to get there and win. And, BTW, losing by more than 30 points is more than just a loss, it’s a trouncing.

  268. Dennis says:

    @814fball OK I will bite! What were the many circumstances beyond OUR control that contributed to SCA win. BG was clearly out played on all sides of the ball. Officials were fair…. Alot of sour grapes on your part. This comes from a Dunmore bucks fan. But I do follow district 4 football.

  269. dmv says:

    Caught the PR/CP live stream last night. Hats off to PR. Looks like they were able to expose the limitations of CP’s passing game. CP lived and died (mostly lived) by just tossing it up to its playmakers running go routes or wheels out of the backfield. While I believe those plays were there last night, it seemed to me that the plan was to make the QB as uncomfortable as possible to affect those passes. And live with the results. And it worked. CP had opportunities there but it looked the PR was able to get just enough pressure to force the QB to miss on some of those throws. If that didn’t happen, might’ve been a completely different game. Good gameplan and execution. Gotta give them their props.

  270. 814fballl says:

    @Ed ok I have to redo what I originally wrote because something messed up with my computer.

    For starters, we don’t just have “one good player.” We lost another good player you apparently don’t know exists last week to an ACL injury which ended his high school football career (he does have college programs interested in him though). Additionally, 5 of our starters came down with a respiratory virus and strep throat earlier this week. Had we been healthy, we would have won that game. SCA isn’t as good this year as people seem to think.

    I also want to clear up some things I’ve read far too many times to count regarding BG. Obviously private schools “recruit” students otherwise the school wouldn’t exist. What doesn’t happen at BG is the “recruitment” for football program. Do you know what the yearly BG tuition costs? It’s close to $13k/year. The school does not even have air conditioning that works properly, do you think they have money to hand out to kids specifically for football? (Hint: the answer is no. No, they don’t). Every starter this year has played on same teams with each other going back 6-7 years—the majority of them have parents and grandparents who are BG alumni. I mean; if you want to consider the exchange student from Spain who never played one minute of American football recruited—that would be a stretch—especially if people knew how not great his English was and coaches were using google translate to teach him how to kick (he turned out to be a heck of a place kicker and was decent with field goals—made 39 yard FG during Richland game). There were many circumstances beyond our control that contributed to SCA’s win. I wish those who speak poorly of BG could spend a couple weeks observing how much effort and dedication these boys have to the game and the program. It’s a shame people don’t give them the credit they deserve. They exceeded expectations winning four district titles in a row, especially this year’s at 2A when we are still technically a 1A school looking at enrollment.

    To circle back though—it’s a shame you just aren’t aware of how many good players we had this year, because there are most certainly more than what your limited information told you.

  271. 814fball says:

    @Ed I think I responded to you but I don’t see my comment yet.

  272. 814fball says:

    @Ed my son plays for BG and we most definitely have more than “one good player.” Just to set the record straight, we lost one of the many other good players we have last week to a knee injury that ended his high school playing career. Several others also came down with an upper respiratory infection and a couple even had strep throat diagnosed earlier in the week. It’s a shame how many people don’t give BG the credit they deserve. I try to stay silent about it mostly, but I’m so fed up at this point with a lot of things that have been said about the team.
    Let me be clear: obviously private schools recruit students otherwise the school would not exist. The current roster has no kid recruited for sports and the starters have played on teams together since elementary school (and I have photos that prove that). We did have an exchange student from Spain who joined team but had never touched a football his entire life and ended up being an amazing kicker for us (has a soccer background). The coaches were literally using Google translate this teach him how to place kick and to kick field goals because his English skills weren’t so great. BG is still essentially a 1A school and the fact we were moved to 2A based on success factor and SCA was able to appeal and win their move to 3A is downright criminal. Their sportsmanship left a lot to be desired as well and even while we were losing we continued to help their players up. Did they do the same? No.

    Am o bitter about this game? Absolutely. Because we could have beat them with a 100% healthy team. Regardless, I’m proud of our kids and feel bad because if people when aren’t close to the program would see how much time, effort and dedication they put into their seasons is something special. And they can still hold their heads high winning their 4th district title in a row—with the last at 2A when they had so many people praying for their downfall this year. It’s amazing how awful grown adults act towards kids who just love the game.

  273. Brian says:

    @MCA75. Yes, I played and I think you’re delusional to think it’s hard to break a player’s neck. How many neck injuries have you seen over the years? I’ve seen plenty. Was it easier for them to break Rankin’s leg? You make it sound like we’re playing touch football here. I find it a bit too much of a coincidence the number of times MCA players have threatened to hurt a player who then ends up injured in that game. Odds aren’t that great that the kid they labeled would always be the one taken out by coincidence. This is honestly the first year I didn’t see them throwing cheap shots after the play ends, so maybe they can shed that reputation…but it’s definitely their reputation.

    My panties weren’t in a bunch, but I also didn’t hold the other team to the level where celebrating their achievements meant they shouldn’t be cheered on in future winnings as you did. I just thought for a guy who’s school has lacked as much class as yours has, perhaps you might want to lower your expectations of the opponent. When you come to a game with F you as face paint, you haven’t exactly been taught good sportsmanship and you might just be trying to pick a fight. Perhaps you can have some influence on the program to earn them a better reputation. F you face paint, I hate Southern postings and claiming you’re going to take out specific players isn’t just kids being kids. Maybe your new coach can fix the environment that makes that acceptable.

    Congrats to SCA on a great game. Hopefully they can decrease the penalties and stop shooting themselves in the foot, they may need those yards in a tougher battle if they want that gold medal again.

  274. EmanD3 says:

    Wyomissing 21, Danville 19

    Yes, Danville is a good team, and yes they missed a 33 yd fg with 10 sec. left, but let’s put this game into perspective. The bottom line is, Wyo played better on both sides of the ball. Danville never once.had the lead. Their 1100 yd rusher had 36 yds on 6 carries, their 1100 yd, all state receiver had 4 catches for 21 yds. Wyo actually did some self imploding in the 2nd half to keep this game close. Stopped on 4th down at Danville 1/2 yd line when up 21-6. Fumbled on Danville 20, missed a 29 yd fg., mis-handled the snap on 3rd and 5 at midfield, with 1:32 left and no Danville TO left. Her are some stats:

    Plays.. Wyo 59 Dan 32
    1st downs.. Wyo 22 Dan 11
    Rushing yds.. Wyo 325 Dan 96

    Wyomissing 3 RB’s ran for 157, 109 & 61

    The bottom line was that Wyo won the trenches on both sides. Danville Ave. 50 a game scored 19. Danville D with 8 shutouts and giving up 4.8/game gave up 21 pts and 325 on the ground. I only brought this up because their was a lot of chatter after the game about how well Danville played, “should have won”, etc….but no one mentioned how well Wyomissing played? It was a great game all around, but actually wasn’t as close as the final score. Props to the Danville D though, they had to be gassed after that game.

  275. Hitman66 says:

    Union wins its first WPIAL title since 1959 (tie with Avonworth). That 26-0 blanking of Canevin has to be one of the biggest upsets ever in our state!

  276. Ed says:

    814fball, BG showed up to play tonight, but by the sounds of it all they really have is one good player to stop and you can win. He is a great player, but as you seen tonight, like I said in an earlier post, it’s about team playing. I think Sca had a lot more speed on the field than bg. It’s going to take a team effort to beat sca. And this is the weakest sca team in a decade or so. This is the year to knock them off. Congratulations to bg for a great season and for getting to this point.

    Danville and Wyomissing was a heartbreaker, those kids battled back and just lost the game by a wide left field goal. What a great game. And a lot of people had Wyomissing winning big in this one.

  277. MCA75 says:

    @Brian If you ever played football, you know it would not be an easy thing to intentionally injure someone’s neck even if you wanted to. Pretty sure you’re the one who’s panties got in a bunch when I said I wasn’t gonna root for Southern. I didn’t say it was the entire team but like your opinion of MCA, a few bad apples ruin it for the whole bunch. Really seemed to make big impact as I listened on my couch tonight lol. And sorry, I don’t pay attention to the student section to see what kids have painted on their face. Isn’t this just kids being kids talking trash?

    Also a quick YouTube search shows the Garcia’s being at Shamokin until at least 2013.

    @814fball you were so confident and you let me down! If you would have paid more attention to the genealogy of our area, you might have realized what you were up against!

  278. Helen Ann Long says:

    SCA again has shown why they have won 12 state titles. They put 42 points on a good BG team and will be playing for another Eastern title next week. For all those who counted them out, think again. They got off to another slow start but after the half they completely dominated BG. The Tigers are winners and it doesn’t matter who the opponent is, they have beaten three of the best 2A teams in the East. Go Tigers!

  279. GaryZ says:

    Well let’s see what happens if we see S.Valley n SCA. That’s my bet, SV vs SCA. I think S. Valley wins by 4 TD’s. Should be fun, wish both the best. But of course I am pulling for D7, WPIAL.

  280. D2 Fan says:

    Union stuns Bishop Canevin in 1A. This might be the break that Northern Lehigh, Steel-High, &/or Canton needed to have a legit shot at winning the state title.

    Not sure how they’ll fare against Port Allegany or Reynolds, but that has to be the stunner of the PIAA playoffs.

  281. Ed says:

    814fball, they just beat an mca team that was the highest scoring mca team in history. They have a state gold medalist in the 100 with wisloski. Don’t to fooled into thinking sca doesn’t have speed.

    Sca’s biggest strength is how well they execute and play as a team. Several years ago they beat a nuemen goretti team that was loaded with d1 recruits, and was definitely more talented than sca. Don’t underestimate the coaching staff at sca. There’s a reason they have 12 state titles, and superior talent isn’t really one of them. Look at their history, how many d1 guys did they ever have, and how many went on to play in the NFL? Only one went on to the NFL, yet they mercy ruled Aliquippa in the state title have, and Aliquippa is easily one of the best programs in the state. They very well may not win a title this year, or may not beat BG, but don’t be surprised if they do.

  282. Ed says:

    Sca beat a lot of teams in the past that were brimming with D1 talent.

  283. WpialGuy says:

    Union Area shocks Bishop Canevin 29-0. Wins first title since 1978. 1A with a Big surprise to start wpial championship day

  284. Hammertime says:

    814fball So I guess BG is invincible, might as well give them the state title now.

  285. GaryZ says:

    I am sure they will see some speed. Not D1 level elite type speed. I know BG n SCA are very talented n have speed, but Westinghouse n S. Valley have a couple D1Linemen and a couple D1skill positions. Hey let’s see what happens, but I just don’t think either team from the East will see. Best of luck to all. BTW I am familiar w the speed n Athletes at BG.

  286. Wpialguy says:

    But if a shocker in WPIAL 1A final. Union is leading bishop Canevin 20-0 after 3. Union was the 10 seed in the wpial and hadn’t made a final since like 1978 or something. This is the union located outside new castle. Their coach ran the defense for Mount Lebanon last year. He’s a Bob Palko longtime assistant. Coaching matters.

  287. DENNIS says:

    Danville will have their hands full. It might be the end of the season for a very good Danville team. Not sure about Southern. BG has speed but will it last 4 quarters? Injuries? just too many questions on this. In 2A the west looks to tough to tame Good luck everyone!

  288. 814fball says:

    @Pennsyltucky Proud I can tell you what awaits the Dist 4 AA champs in Altoona — a quarterback who can outplay anyone not only due to his athleticism but his pure determination. That goes for every starter on BG’s team. SCA has their work cut out for them.

  289. 814fball says:

    @Margaret I don’t know about anyone else, but I really don’t care about the genealogy of that area.

  290. 814fball says:

    @GaryZ SCA will see speed tonight with BG — I guess you’re not very familiar with Guilfoyle this year.

  291. Brian says:

    @Margaret It still doesn’t get you past the fact the SCA kids have more in common with kids who live in the rural areas of Bloomsburg and Danville than they do kids who live in Shamokin and Mt Carmel. Heck, even the language is different in these areas. It doesn’t matter that your family doesn’t farm if you live in a farming community to make the lifestyle and culture completely different than that in a coal mining community. SCA and MCA might be rivals, but that doesn’t make those schools alike in any way. I’ve actually worked at both schools and the culture is vastly different. Just because a family has their roots in coal country doesn’t mean their kids were brought up in that culture if they never lived there. That’s like the US assuming the Japanese born in the US were the same as those who immigrated from there during WWII. Where your parents or grandparents grew up doesn’t affect you like the culture of the area where you actually grew up. Kids live in the present, not in their parents’ past.

  292. MikeS says:

    Well, great to see a number of Thanksgiving games till survive, such a great tradition, I went to Quakertown (22)-Pennridge (6) for a half and watched half of the Easton-Phillipsburg game on TV. P-burg won. Looking for this evening’s & Tomorrow’s playoff game results. Would not be totally surprised if CB West beat Garnet Valley, after all they played earlier this year 14-7 GV. We here in Quakertown are looking forward to 2023, although anything can change, but only 1 Q-town Starter from 2021 Pennridge game was back for 2022, Q-town should have 18 starters back in 2023, and another 6-8 who had significant minutes, from a surprising 6-6, playoff team. 2023 looks Bright.

  293. Margaret says:

    Lol do you realize that north schuylkill’s biggest rival is mt. Carmel in football. And since you seem to be stuck in the 60’s describing these schools as coal and farming areas then we can say shamokin, mt. Carmel and north schuylkill r all closely tied together in all sports during the schuylkill league era. Just wrestling alone we can have a go with, garcias, lanes, caseys, biscoes and in hynoskis in football and these were just quick off the top of my head. And this is so they can get out of the coal mines that none of theee parents worked in and moved to the farms for a better life where none of them farmed.

  294. Brian says:

    @MCA75 your family must not talk much if you didn’t know about the broken neck as many SCA fans wanted the parents to push for something to be done. If you weren’t at the first game you also missed your MCA students wearing face art that said “F@#$ Southern” too? Seriously, you must be living under a rock or have never had other schools tell you the reputation MCA has earned. I’ve heard it from numerous other schools that they expect the cheap shots, late hits, and kicks in the pile when playing your team. Yet you got your panties in a bind because a player looked back over his shoulder while running into the end zone? My point is you live in a glass house and shouldn’t be judging teams for how they respond when this is the atmosphere your team has cultivated. Yes, I’d still cheer for MCA because I’d like to believe not all their players are like that. You, however, seemed to want to lump all SCA kids under one category for some reason as that’s what you did by saying they were show boating and you’d not cheer for them.

    The Hynoskis and Garcias went to elementary school at SCA, yet people seem to think they were recruits or transplants. People move out of coal country for the same reasons they move out of dead steel towns, which is economics. It has nothing to do with football. Those kids you mentioned grew up playing ball as children in SCA’s program that starts them young. Having a parent that graduated from coal country doesn’t mean THEY are from coal country. Claiming the fact their family originated from coal country as meaning they’re one of yours is a pretty far stretch. The kids themselves didn’t grow up in coal country.

    Roth also is a transplant…he can trace the families back to the 80s and has coached more sets of dads and sons than he probably can count, but he wasn’t born here either. I’m not sure Roth knows how long some of the families have lived here. He turned the program around with what was available to him in a small community and deserves loads of credit for it, but we certainly don’t see him as an outsider because he wasn’t born here. SCA community members, however, do not identify as being in any way part of coal country because we’re just not.

  295. Margaret says:

    There very well may be 50 farmers and 80 coal miners lefr in the area. I hope you get caught up with life. One time in my doctors office i saw a picture of the spot where hoffa was buried. You had to walk real close to see the town on the map because it was so small of text. When i got real close the doctors fist came flying out from it and knocked me out. Turns out it wasnt hoffa it was showing where he was gonna knock me out on the map.

  296. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Marg: Your line about NS, MCA and Shamokin moving into Columbia Co and thinking they landed in Ibiza is pure gold. Omg. You nailed it. So…hats off to you!

  297. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Marg: I want to slag you off but omg that Ibiza line is pure gold , not unlike a Flannery O’Connor bon mot. I was literally just reading that to my better half, and she was like “Marg has the last laugh.” So hats off to you, Marg. We shall see what awaits the Dist 4 AA Champs in the Big ‘Toona. PP

  298. GaryZ says:

    I hope S. Columbia makes it to the PIAA Finals. I want to see them match up w Steel Valley or Westinghouse. I am a WPIAL guy. They will see speed like they are not used to. Also S.V. has a huge line, to go with multiple D1 skill position players.Westinghouse just has so much speed and Athletes. If they make it, gonna have their hands full. Not gonna be playing a Farrell or Wilmington, but a WPIAL power in either of those schools. I don’t see Farrell pulling an upset. I think S. Valley makes it, but flip a coin… because Westinghouse outta the Pgh. City League IS ABSOLUTELY LOADED. Best of luck two all teams mentioned.

  299. MCA75 says:

    @Brian maybe ‘most’ SCA families don’t come from coal region roots but certainly a significant amount did in recent years, even Jim Roth admits it. And many that did have made some of the most significant contributions to your programs success. Was Southern successful before this generation of transplants and would they have been successful without them? Absolutely, they have one of the top PA coaches and strong tradition going back to the 80s. Would they have been as successful without families like Garcia’s or Hynoski’s or countless other families moving from MC and surrounding areas to the SC district? Absolutely not.

    And who considers a HS football team the enemy? Most of my own family lives in SCA district. In fact, I just had Thanksgiving dinner in Catawissa Lol! Not to mention my siblings and I have had many friends (many we graduated with at MCA) whose kids played for Southern.

    The dirty play is a new one for me. The fact that players were able to purposely break someone’s neck during a game is actually pretty impressive (eye rolls). Being that MCA is such a dirty team, I’m surprised you would root for them in the postseason!

    @Margaret the Ibiza comment is hilarious and spot on!

  300. Margaret says:

    My uncle has a pic of lou holtz wearing a go penn state sweatshirt, it didnt make it real but now u have me thinking it has to be

  301. Margaret says:

    Oh ok. Mount carmel is north schuylkills biggest rival. There is 1 street in frackville that goes to Shenandoah. Ringtown goes to ns but some of the buses go thru shenandoah. At the soccer field in gordon heading to 901 in lavelle, the cut off line for tri valley and north schuylkill exists. Kids who r 2 miles from north schuylkill go 14 miles to hegins to public school. Some in wilburton go to mca some ns. Ashland, frackville, girardville, lavelle, gordon, ft. Springs, ringtown, brandonville, creswell gardens, locustdale, oakland avenue, go to north schuylkill.

  302. Margaret says:

    I dont remember saying coal miners and farmers, north schuylkill, todd lane, kent lane, jarret lane, shane casey, off the top of my head i forget the southern wrestler who finished second as a freshman and then never placed again but he is north schuylkill, mca u have the garcias. The ns and sca school district meet in wilburton,aristes, and the ringtown mountain. They dont have a history other than they transferred into southern. I didnt know of any farming or coal mining. I didnt realize they made a comeback. I even know of the lanes living at knoebels cabin until they bought a house in elysburg. You must be to busy farming in numidia to know you take from the strictly coal miners, lol circa 1900. There are more jobs on the gordon mountain in distribution centers than there r coal miners and farmers in each district your talking about. You need to get the flux capacitator rebooted and come back to 2022

  303. Brian says:

    @Margaret you clearly don’t actually know who lives in SCA’s district. Most did not come from coal country roots, but lived in this farming region for many generations. It seems a few who moved out of coal country (because, really why would they stay) want to claim that SCA is primarily made up of ex-coal country families, but the vast majority are not. SCA’s district isn’t coal country, but primarily a farming community. That divide “over the mountain” is a large one of great cultural variation.
    The fact other schools consider SCA the enemy because they continue to beat their teams and don’t instead focus on what is making them successful and try to replicate that in their own program is the problem. Many make excuses for why SCA must be consistently winning, but if your kids aren’t ready to devote the time and effort SCA’s team does, the fault lies on your team.
    BTW, it isn’t just SCA the MCA kids have purposely injured. My Dr’s office still has a picture on the wall from when they took out Bloomsburg’s QB Rankin after touting that was their plan. The area schools expect this when you play them because it’s been their reputation. I can only hope their new coach puts an end to it.
    It’s also interesting you lump North Schuylkill in with Shamokin and MCA. The latter do share quite a bit of history and culture. NS does not. That district pulls from some coal country, but it’s certainly not all coal country. If you want to label and classify schools, maybe you should learn more about the history and culture of the people that populate those areas.

  304. Irish1 says:

    The playoffs are great ,but waking up on Thanksgiving morning just isn’t the same anymore with so many of the great crosstown , public- catholic ,games played on this day that no longer exist. Been to plenty of playoff games and not too many could match the atmosphere and intensity of so many of those games.

  305. Margaret says:

    People have a hard time cheering for southern or mount carmel because some of there fans throw out some of the most idiotic claims and complaints against the teams they play win or lose. And the sad part is southern is just mt. Carmel, north schuylkill and shamokin people who think they moved to Ibiza. Your arguing with you. And thats how a called broken neck to the back up qb sits up there with the bambino years earlier calling his hr.

  306. Margaret says:

    I heard southern is threatening turf toe to the opponents punter this week.

  307. ScottyB says:

    @ Irish1 – I think you are correct as the same is happening to Perk Valley. They had a multi year deal with Coatesville that ran out last season (2021) and also with Downingtown West that may also have run out, not sure if they are set to play in 2023 but I know Coach Heist likes to challenge his team in the non conference, hence adding Roman Catholic along with DTW this season. Should be interesting to see who both PJP and PV are able to fill in the open dates with.

  308. Brian says:

    @MCA75 There was a huge amount of trash talking from MCA around both games. This isn’t new. They actually said their plans to take out specific players most every year we played them. Do you remember them breaking the neck of the QB several years ago? They called that online before it happened. It explains why the backup QB looked so scared during the first game this year as that’s how he got his position two years ago.
    Not all SCA fans and players were complaining about the player who had to sit out the game. He retaliated and the rules are the rules. However, the hit before that was an intentional cheap shot on BW that was way late and out of bounds. The Troy player wasn’t standing up for his friend…he was taking a cheap shot at the ball carrier. That field didn’t give much room before kids out of bounds could have been impaled on posts, so he’s lucky he wasn’t seriously hurt.
    If you don’t think both teams also trash talk while on the field, you’re not very familiar with high school football. We were actually surprised MCA didn’t start playing dirty as that’s been the expectation any time they’re losing. Your team is notorious for that enough that other schools discuss it. Perhaps you shouldn’t be expecting great sportsmanship from teams your team hasn’t generally shown it to in the past.
    Not cheering for the local team seems pretty petty to me, but you do you. If it were the other way around, I’d still want MCA to continue winning.

  309. Jeff H. says:

    @Cat#1 & Kevin X – several home games out West as well, Pine Richland is playing Erie Cathedral Prep on their home field, same with Westinghouse from the Pittsburgh City League against Farrell, this started 2 yrs ago during Covid when they couldn’t find neutral site hosts due to the pandemic and still continues, pretty sure the semi-final games next week will be at neutral sites.

  310. 814fball says:

    @MCA75 BG has an advantage playing at Mansion Park in Altoona — and trust me when I say that when they see people picking SCA to win, it only motivates them to play harder. People may laugh at this, but BG plays better when they are seen as the underdogs (and yes, they’ve been viewed as the underdogs most of last year and all of this year with the move to 2A). This group of starters have been on a mission to prove themselves since their season in junior high when they went 1-8. If SCA comes into this thinking that they have it in the bag, they’re going to be in for a big surprise. I’m not sure if you have seen our QB, but he has a knack for making big plays when they are most needed. It won’t be easy, but I believe we can win this game.

  311. EmanD3 says:

    Yes, strength of schedule does become a big factor in the post season. 3A Wyomissing was up 35-0 over 5A Cocalico earlier this year, and now Cocalico is playing Exeter for the D3 final this Friday. Wyo played a good 4A Lampeter Strasburg team a few weeks ago and won 21-0, they got over mid field once. So, all of that should help Wyomissing this Friday @ Danville. The PIAA has that game at Danville this year, because in 2020 that same match up was at Wyomissing. Still not sure why they are doing that. Danville and Wyo are almost 75 miles apart? Having said that, Danville has a lot of good skill position players…WR, RB, QB, LB/TE(all SR’s). Actually their WR might be the best in the state at his position. He will be a 3x all state pick once this year is over. 4000/50 for his career. We shall see. Danville has been in one close game all year and Wyomissing was behind once all year, and that was last week, 7-0, but then they scored 63 straight with 9 rushing TD’s. This might be closer than some people think….Go Wyo!!

  312. Buddy says:

    District 1 final was at GV last year also. The next round is at a Neutral site.

  313. Cat #1 says:

    Just wondering how does Danville get a home game in the state playoffs

  314. MCA75 says:

    @Brian of course I’m disappointed in the outcome but no sour grapes here. MCA was outplayed and outcoached so there is no question SCA deserved to win.

    These antics were not only against MCA, I watched multiple SCA games this year, so from my perspective its not just about social media posts. Last week SCA fans and parents were complaining about a player who wasn’t able to play against MCA because he got ejected against Troy. They said it was so unfair because he was just standing up for his teammate. Apparently they missed the SCA ball carrier standing over the Troy player he knocked down trash talking him before another Troy player stood up for his own teammate and walloped the SCA kid. Last week, the same SCA player looks around behind him running for a TD like he’s Usain Bolt and another makes a tackle and high steps toward the crowd like he’s Ray Lewis. With all those dominant teams SCA had from 2017-2019, I don’t remember those players ever acting like that.

    I was actually surprised at the amount of sportsmanship between MCA and SCA during the first game this season. What I saw was players from both teams were helping each other up and MCA players hugging each other after the win like yeah we finally beat them, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I did see on a few occasions this year where MCA kids acted foolish on the field but from my understanding it was addressed by the coaches. If MCA kids were talking trash online, I hope they learned a lesson. I don’t care if its my team or yours, if I want to watch that nonsense I’ll turn on the NFL. SCA can be proud of their comeback after 3 losses, but I’ll still be rooting against them this year.

  315. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, just curious on your thoughts/opinions, assuming you have any or care, on how the PIAA (and most districts) are having the team on top of the bracket having home field during the playoffs (for the most part). Guessing we’ll be back to neutral fields for the state semi’s/eastern-western finals next weekend.

  316. Jeff H. says:

    @WpialGuy – agree with all of your analysis, BF vs. Steel Valley is the most unpredictable game of the 4 WPIAL championships on Friday, that game could go either way, surprised BF dominated Sto-Rox last week, I thought that game was a tossup. I also expect Avonworth to hang with BV for awhile, but too much Quinton Martin and BV pulls away in the second half, will be a big upset if BV doesn’t get to the state final.

    As I mentioned yesterday I was at the Aliquippa game on Friday night and they were extremely impressive against a very solid McKeesport team, CV needs at least a few more turnovers than the Quips and to control the clock to have a chance to win this game in the fourth quarter.

    I give the House a decent chance to upset Farrell, would be great for Pittsburgh to have Westinghouse face the WPIAL winner next week with a trip to the state final at stake, I also think Pine vs. ECP and NA vs. SC will be very competitive games and could go either way. I don’t see either SC or NA beating Harrisburg next week though, they were very impressive in dominating Central York last week and have been playing well down the stretch, they were my pick before the season started to face SJP in the final and I’m sticking with them.

  317. foleman says:

    WH, I think Danville will score some points but will get worn down by Wyo’s huge offensive line in the 2nd half. Wyo 42-21

  318. Irish1 says:

    @ Foleman….I think in the case of the open dates for PJP next year I think might have just be a case of those contracts running out. Berks catholic may have been a 4 year home and away,maybe they wanted to schedule someone new. Maybe Berks catholic with their new league schedule wanted to possibly lighten things up but they havent in the past. Now I could see Caroll looking to go in another direction they have been handled by PJP and are down program wise right now. I think the Judge game might have just been a one year thing, they played that In Ocean City NJ this year. I think PJP is hurt some by the Pac frontier being on the weak side when it comes to playoff time. They could benefit by a bit tougher non league schedule.

  319. Brian says:

    @MCA75 Sour grapes much? I’d say after the way that MCA acted both before and after the first game and before the game on Friday, you could say the same about some of your own players. SCA is not the dominant team they were in the past. They should be proud to have made it as far as they have this year despite three losses. If they don’t make it any further, they can still hold their heads high. I’d hate to see your reaction to the social media posts I saw stemming from MCA after their earlier win if you think that only one side has players that are self-aggrandizing. If you didn’t see any of that coming from MCA, maybe you don’t understand why it would come back your way after Friday’s game. I’m not surprised if SCA players are pounding their chests after being told they were “over rated” when they were the ones coming into the game without a ranking of worth. MCA players are getting what they had coming to them. These are kids…you can’t expect one side to dish it out and other to then remain silent when they have the chance to retort.

  320. Hammertime says:

    Sounds like someone can’t handle seeing his team get whooped in the playoffs.

  321. 814fball says:

    @MCA75 I’m a little biased because my kid plays for BG, but glad others are supporting them as well. They are all good kids and they have worked so hard the last couple years. It’s been a ride!

  322. MCA75 says:

    @814fball that makes 2 of us rooting for BG. I usually root for coal region teams in the playoffs but the self-aggrandizement by certain players on this SCA team really rubs me the wrong way.

  323. WpialGuy says:

    Westinghouse vs Farrell
    Farrell won 24-7 last year. Westinghouse is improved and playing on their home field. Would be an absolutely crazy story if a city league team wins this game and then has a state semi final vs the wpial champion. City league football teams just do not have the success Westinghouse is currently having!

    Pine Vs ECP
    Pine is on a roll. They’ve won 9 straight games and ECP hasn’t played in weeks. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pine pulls the “upset”

    NA vs SC
    I’m not going to pretend i know anything about state college, but NA is a solid team who might’ve played their best game last week. It’ll be a close one.

  324. WpialGuy says:

    My Wpial Champ previews
    Class 4A
    Aliquippa has proven they are a class above the rest. A rematch of the last week of the regular season, Central Valley has to control the ball and limit turnovers. They also have to force a few turnovers. If not, Aliquippa runs away with it. Aliquippa over CV

    Belle Vernon has yet to play a close game against a 3A opponent this year. But don’t sleep on Avonworth. I think they keep it close for a half and Belle Vernon pulls away in the 2nd half.

    I think that this game is the most up in the air out of any of them. Steel Valley and Beaver Falls are both very good. My gut says go with Steel Valley but I won’t be surprised if Beaver Falls pulls it out. This game is a true toss up.

    Bishop Canevin vs Union Area
    Union area the 10 seed and made the finals. Truthfully, i don’t expect this one to be close. Union is scrappy though. Bishop Canevin wins their 2nd straight.

  325. WH says:

    Anyone have thoughts on Wyo Danville on Friday? I’m not too sure what to make of this game. Most likely, Wyo will just be too much. Too strong up front and they run the wing-t to absolute perfection. The angles they get on blocks is almost impossible to stop.

  326. Foleman says:

    EmanD3, Looking at Wyomissing’s schedule and who they would play in the playoffs, I didn’t think they would have a close game until the State Championship. One thing about the playoffs, teams with weak schedules get exposed in the playoffs, I watched undefeated Solanco against Daniel Boone and came away thinking that they were just an average team with a weak schedule, same with Lancaster Catholic and it showed in the playoffs. Now you are seeing teams trying to dumb down their schedule to accumulate playoff points. Pope John Paul had 3 teams – Carroll, Judge and Berks Catholic…… the mighty have fallen….beg off the schedule for next year. Perkiomen Valley and Pottsgrove also looking for teams to play. Say what you want about the upper level Catholic league teams, they will play the best and it pays off in the playoffs.

  327. 814fball says:

    @D2 Fan I hope you jinxed SCA. I am pulling for Guilfoyle.

  328. Cw says:

    So west and east 8 teams per class
    What everyone thoughts & picks

  329. Cw says:

    Ok what is picks for this week??
    I enjoy all the great pa football talk

  330. Buddy says:

    I thought the D1 final was always played at a neutral field. I see it’s at GV. I always thought it should be played

    at the higher seed, but I didn’t think it has been.

  331. D2 Fan says:

    Only one D2 team left: Crestwood. I don’t think even the biggest die-hard fans of NEPA football expected that heading into the playoffs, or even this year.

    Curious to know how Bonner-Prendie is. Tall task for a D2 public school to beat a PCL private school, but I’m gonna hope for the best.

    Interesting observation that came to me today: Each of the District 11 champions hail from Lehigh County.

    1A: Northern Lehigh (Slatington)
    2A: Executive Education (Allentown)
    3A: Northwestern Lehigh (New Tripoli)
    4A: Central Catholic (Allentown)
    5A: Whitehall
    6A: Parkland (Orefield)

    For the historians here (as I’m probably 20-30 years younger than a few of the people here): When was the last time one single county won districts in all four or six classes, that wasn’t District 12?

    Before I go, my State Final predictions
    1A: Northern Lehigh vs. Bishop Canevin
    2A: Southern Columbia vs. Farrell
    3A: Wyomissing vs. Belle Vernon
    4A: Bishop McDevitt (Harrisburg) vs. Aliquippa
    5A: Imhotep Charter vs. Cathedral Prep (again)
    6A: SJP vs. North Allegheny

    Knowing what happened last week with who I talked about, I wouldn’t be shocked if everyone lost this week that was mentioned in the 12 here. I’m kind of a jinx, when it comes to football.

  332. Jeff H. says:

    @QuipTown – agree Coach Warfield has done a tremendous job since he was hired in 2018, I was very impressed with the Quips performance on Friday and never would have predicted they would mercy rule McKeesport, they totally dominated right from the start. I have seen all the top 5a and 6a teams in the WPIAL and I would like Aliquippa’s chances against any of them, looks like they are headed for an epic rematch with Bishop McDevitt in a few weeks, although Central Valley will be a tough game on Friday.

    @NW PA – agree the PR vs. ECP game should be very competitive, PR is on a roll and playing very well with 9 wins in a row, and game is on their home field, I think the 4 week layoff is going to hurt Prep, at least early, wouldn’t be surprised if this game is decided in the fourth quarter, think the winner likely beats the D3 champion next week and advances to the state final.

    I also think Farrell vs. Westinghouse in 2A on Saturday will be a very good game and much closer than Farrell’s 24-7 victory last year.

    @PhillyBoy – I think the NA vs State College game this week will be very competitive and could go either way, still think Harrisburg will be the team that gets to the final from the Western bracket and beat Manheim Township in the rematch this weekend and whoever wins the NA-SC game next week.

  333. Wpialguy says:

    Some major rumors out in the west here the Pittsburgh Central Catholic coaching staff is either a) not going to return or b) receive a major shake-up. Would without a doubt impact the balance out here if that job comes open.

  334. phillyboy says:

    Hats off to North Allegheny for taking care of business and advancing. I realize the consensus is that 6A is down this year in the WPIAL but they’ve built a pretty respectable 11-1 record, plodding along in consistent if underwhelming fashion. My perception is that NA is the prototypical rich suburban coed high school, kind of like the North Penn of Pittsburgh. I remember their run from 2010-2012. They pounded LaSalle in 2010. I remember the hype video — the coach’s pregame speech, pretty intense. Also, their star QB Leftwich, the son of a Pitt coach who had just relocated to Pittsburgh from Oklahoma as I remember, went to NA, not PCC — major props, major respect, goes to show there still are some individuals out there who have old school principles and critical thinking skills, enough sophistication to take the road less traveled if it makes sense. That’s the thing though, when you’re running a program organically, it’s hard to have a peak team consistently. It might require a Mars or Jupiter-like revolution whereas the Preps of the world have the Mercury cycle down pat.

  335. NW PA says:

    Erie Cathedral/Pine Richland should be a great game. Pine is playing their best football of the year. Cathedral should be healthy, but also hasn’t played in 3 weeks. Should be a very close game. After seeing them play several times this year I’ve noticed that most teams they’ve played have made the mistake of stacking the box and blitzing frequently to stop their run game, but Cathedral then starts running bubbles, screens, and RPO’s. They have athletes all over the field and a lot of team speed. PR probably has the advantage with their line. Whoever wins this game probably makes a strong run at the title.

  336. D11 Matt says:


    I have been saying since preseason to watch Northern Lehigh in A. As an Alum, I am hopeful about this upcoming weekend, but the road tough. They would need to be at Steelton and Canton to get to championship and then probably play Bishop C. That’s the top three in the state and have been all year. That’s as tough as you can get having to play top three. This week to have a chance they need to control clock and keep Steelton offense off field. And yes, Ramos, is a stud. He was out from week 3-End of reg season with a broken collarbone but he has returned an gave Northern Lehigh another playmaker. He had 6 tds in three games before getting injured. He was a returner starter from last year’s state semi final run. Ramos (WR/RB/CB), Frame (QB/S), and Jimenez (DE,RB) are a damn good trio for Northern Lehigh. Ramos is a shutdown corner who will cover Steelton’s top WR this week. We shall see how they stack up against a very good Steelton team.

  337. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Hats off to the Ironmen. Great year, Purple and Orange!

  338. Cw says:

    Northern Lehigh (1a) has a state championship team this season! Well Coached! WR/RB Ramos he is a baller

    Northwestern Lehigh (3a) has one of the best in the state of pa in Cade Christopher (deserves way more Recognition) great athletes & program that is very well coached. This program is gonna Open some eyes.

    Allentown Central Catholic (4a)!!!!!!!!$
    Parkland (6a)
    Whitehall (5a)
    Executive (2a)
    These teams are gonna make some noise!
    District 11

  339. Cw says:

    Jc 10/31/22 love your thoughts on northwestern

  340. EmanD3 says:

    So I went over to the 3A D3 title game between Wyomissing and West Perry @ Wyo. WP was 11-1 and just had put up a 60+ burger on an undefeated Lancaster Catholic team last week. Plus they had 426 yds rushing. Thought they might give Wyo some issues. First drive of the game WP goes 70 yds, with a 41 yd TD pass and goes up 7-0. Little did I know that Wyo would rush for 9 TD’s and 626 yds(not a mis print), and score 63 straight. Final 63-7. Quite mind-boggling, actually. Next week 12-0 Wyo @ 12-0 Danville #1 vs #2 in Pa, should be a good game…one would think, but who knows??

  341. Kevin X says:

    OUCH!!! Oh for five for the D2’s LFC this weekend.

  342. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh took care of Trail 40-7. Sets up a quarterfinal matchup with Steelton (winning 24-7 over Windber) next weekend. Northern definitely needs to control clock with long drives and end those with TDS. Keep Steelton’s offense off field.

    District 11 will have all six champions playing next weekend (Thanksgiving weekend). Last year, they only had Freedom and Northern Lehigh playing that weekend. Can’t remember last time all district 11 champs were playing thanksgiving weekend….has to be years. Good year for D11 football!

  343. Quiptown says:

    With Mike Warfield as the head coach Quip is on another level. How was the view from the stands? Always have faith in my Quips but was surprised by the total domination.

  344. D2 Fan says:

    D2 Takeaways (& a bit more)

    Looks like the injury bug had a bigger impact on Lakeland than anyone here expected. Shocker of the playoffs is the upset by Executive Education, 42-15. I think Lakeland was close to leading around late 2nd quarter. This likely guarantees Southern or Guilfoyle as the east representative.

    Watched most of the DV-Whitehall game on BRC 13 (113 actually) this evening, & it was sort of a hard fought game for the first half. Game definitely got out of hand for DV in the second half, & they were leading at half, mind you. Zephs get Imhotep/Roman winner.

    Crestwood holds on to beat Valley View & earned first district title since 2014. They’re waiting for Interboro or Bonner-Prennie, which the latter is probably not a good draw. Anyone know how good Bonner-Prennie is? or Interboro? I barely pay attention to Delaware Valley League & the small schools in the PCL.

    Looks like Neumann-Goretti was the better team, as Scranton Prep season’s finished. They lost by one score. A what-if season for the Cavs. If London Montgomery was playing this year, I’d think it would’ve given them a better crack at advancing.

    Also, slightly stunned with the ACC win over Shore. They advance in the West bracket (Thanks to six classes) to take on Meadville/Juniata. That’s quite a distance between those two schools.

    One more thing: Classic SCA is back. I’ll be interested in seeing what they do against Guilfoyle next week. That’s gonna be a must-watch game.

  345. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Play-Off Score: @Helen, @DENNIS, @Brian 1
    @Bub, @NE PA, @Marg 0

  346. Helen Ann Long says:

    SCA routs undefeated MCA 48-18 for D4 title number 30 and 8 in a row. After a slow start the Tigers took over the game with a running game that was unstoppable. Both Wes Barnes and Braeden Wisloski ran for over 100 yards. I said before on this forum that this was a different SCA team than earlier in the season and coach Roth proved again why he holds the record for wins in Pa.

  347. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Proclaimed: SCA has been deemed the victor of The Battle for Knoebels. Deeded thusly for the full term of the season of Nov 2022 until Sept of 2023 to SCA shall be control of the Crystal Pool, Playland, the old skating rink, the Alamo and of course, the Whip and the Flyer.

  348. AR says:

    It is very apparent and always will be that Wally hall gets outcoached in big games. It is unbelievable how many mistakes he makes during a big game when you have real game time decisions to make in a close game.

  349. Kevin X says:

    Any of you guys know if the D12 games tomorrow at the NE SS take cash or are on-line ticking only. If so have a link??

  350. Jeff H. says:

    Aliquippa has played in the WPIAL district finals an astonishing 14 yrs in a row, no other school comes close to that sustained excellence, in this century they are 17-2 in the district semifinals. However, their streak is in serious jeopardy tonight against McKeesport, these 2 played a 2OT thriller in the semi-finals last year won by Aliquippa 27-21, and both schools returned almost all of the key players from last year, don’t be surprised if McKeesport turns the tables tonight and ends the Quips streak, definitely one of the marque games in the state this weekend in any district.

  351. The Joneses says:

    @Jeff I expect Tep to win. Roman has talent, but strong defenses stifle them ( See SJP, Malvern). I agree it should be a good one. I started the season picking them to go deep in 5A playoffs. This is a major test.

  352. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    @ Jason and @ D2: Glad you liked my “Battle for Knoebels” moniker for tonight’s game! I just might have to trademark that. 🙂 Anyway, good luck to all the kids on both teams. Let’s see a clean and hard-fought game! Once upon a time MCA had what SCA wanted and now SCA has what MCA wants. Funny how life is so cyclical.

  353. Jeff H. says:

    @mcd 65 – yeah, I think it may very well be a one score game, turnovers and penalties could be the deciding factor. I’m going to the Aliquippa-McKeesport game tonight which is going to be a real battle, I’ve seen most of the top teams in the WPIAL in 5A and 6A this year and McKeesport is as good or better than any team I’ve see. I think this game goes down to the wire and could go either way, I give Aliquippa a slight edge because they have a more balanced offense than McKeesport, but Port’s defense is excellent, should be a great game.

  354. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jeff H. , Talent wise I think both Imhotep and Roman are close. Coaching could be the difference in this one. I would call it Roman ,but they sure got rolled by the prep a few weeks ago. Tep beat McDevitt at the beginning of the year so that of course gives them much deserved recognition. Should be a good one if stupid penalties dont ruin it.

  355. Jason says:

    Great games as mentioned before in the northeast tonight. Danville – Loyalsock is a great rematch. North Schuylkill – Northwestern Lehigh absolute great matchup with NS’s great defense against a potent rushing attack featuring of the best runners in the district. It’ll be interesting to see how NS’s offense matches up against Northwestern’s defense, they fly around to the football and can cause havoc. I can see the game going both ways as being high scoring or a slugfest defensively. It’s almost impossible to completely shutdown guys like Christopher and Clymer for NW or NS’s guys like Flail, Tinari, and Chowansky so I think it makes for one of the most interesting games of the night. And not to mention probably the one game that everyone is waiting for in the Knoebels championship. Mount Carmel – Southern. Is this the year Mount Carmel breaks through and finally beats big brother?? I think it is.

  356. Jeff H. says:

    Any of you guys that follow D12 think Roman has a puncher’s chance against Imhotep? Seems to me like that should be a pretty competitive game, expect Tep to win, but would not be surprised if Roman upsets them.

  357. D2 Fan says:

    @ Kevin X,

    I did see that Lakeland has been a bit banged up at a few positions. I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s a closer game than expected, because of that. EE had one of the most intriguing schedules of any team in the PIAA this year. Yes, Dunmore does have turf now. Looks great from the pictures I’ve seen.

    @ MCA75

    Lakeland/Mt. Carmel would be an excellent East final. I feel like they’ve been the best two teams in 2A East. Not sure how the whole CalPreps thing works. From what I tried to understand on the website, it looks like they use margin of victory as a tool.

    @ D11 Matt

    The schedule is exactly the kind they need to prepare them for games like this. It’s not gonna be easy to beat Steel-High & Canton, but this team is battle tested enough.

  358. Bigstroke says:

    Picks for the round of 16

    1A- northern Lehigh over trail
    Steelton over a very good windber team(close)
    Penns over cambria

    2A- Steel over neshannock
    Sto rox over beaver
    Westinghouse sets up a showdown with Farrell
    Guilfoyle over penns
    I think So col beats Carmel convincingly
    West catholic over trinity
    Lakeland over ex ed

    3A- Goretti too fast and athletic for prep
    N schuylkill over Nw Lehigh
    Danville and wyomissing set up a monster clash for next week

    4A- quippa and CV will set up a rematch nxt week
    Meadville comfortably over Juniata
    Jersey Shore beats ACC by 2-3 scores
    Mcdevitt vs manheim for D3 nxt week
    Interboro vs Bonner is a great game..Bonner squeaks by
    Valley View gets revenge on crestwood for D2 title

    5A – Dublin and Strath nxt week for D1 title
    Tep over Roman
    Whitehall over DV

    6A- SC over McDowell in a close one
    N Allegheny over PCC
    Hemp field and Harrisburg meet next week
    Freedom earns the right to get rolled by SJP nxt week
    Garnet vs Perk for D1 title

  359. Kevin X says:

    @ D2 Fan

    Good to finally hear some NEPA chatter. Missed you guys. Some responses:

    Isn’t Lakeland somewhat banged up?? Thought I saw their QB has issues as well as Dippre?? They barely squeaked by a decent, not great, Dunmore team last week?? Not saying EE will pull the upset, but think the game could be closer than many expect. I have no connection to them, but what I like about them as a second year program, they went out (maybe by necessity since they aren’t in a league and don’t have any built in completion) and took on all comers. Jersey Shore, Berks catholic, a really good D1 5A Upper Moreland team. So they’ve been battle tested as well. Playing with the houses money. Also, isn’t the game in Dunmore, being played on turf?? These guys have some speed, which translates very well on turf.

    I think Scranton Prep has a real decent chance of knocking off N-G. Maybe you D12/PCL guys can tell me if N-G’s QB Wharton is playing. Being a transfer from Wood, is he eligible for the post season?? I know Shawn Battle is a one man wrecking crew, but a real good and big starting QB not playing doesn’t help. The four keys to beating N-G, the first three are obvious to any team, any game, ball control, limit mistakes, limit turnovers. The forth, to beat an Albie Crosby team, get them rattled. Goad them into stupid penalties. Play with, and get into their heads. Get them complaining and whining. Works like a charm 🙂

    5A – Umm, no.

  360. MCA75 says:

    @D2 Fan I think Lakeland could compete with either and may even be favored. Would love to see Lakeland vs MCA east final.

    Also, this is the first I have heard of the CalPreps site. I’m wondering if it uses the same algorithm as the old Born Power Index which apparently took margin of victory into account in rankings/predictions.

  361. Jeff H. says:

    @MCA75 – agree with you on Jersey Shore, I think they beat ACC in a tough, physical game and will end up playing the survivor of the WPIAL in 2 weeks, I went to the Jersey Shore-Aliquippa game last year, and JS had the Quips back on their heels in the first half, Aliquippa finally scored a TD on the last play of the half on 4th down to cut the lead to 10-7 going into the locker room, and then scored on an 83 yard TD pass on the first play of the second half and from there just overwhelmed them with their overall team speed and athleticism and won going away.

  362. D11 Matt says:


    As an Northern Lehigh Alum, I agree and have said all year, just like last year, the tough AAA schedule prepared them. However, they will earn if they get to state final. They would have to beat Steelton and then Canton in all likelihood to get there. They have the talent and size to do it but it won’t be easy

  363. JCo says:

    Jersey Shore vs. ACCHS should definitely be a good one. They played last season and Jersey Shore won a hard-fought game 20-7, so Central Catholic will be up for it and looking for revenge. They are physical and defense-oriented, so another low-scoring showdown is likely in the cards. I anticipate whoever wins this will have an easier time with Meadville or Juniata.

  364. D2 Fan says:

    District 2 has some very interesting games, this weekend.

    1A has Lackawanna Trail taking on Northern Lehigh in what should be a fun one. Rematch of this round last year, but in 2A. Northern is my pick to rep the East in 1A. They played the schedule to make a deep run. They look like a team that can beat Canton/Steel-High.

    2A has Lakeland taking on Executive Education. I don’t really know how much of a threat EE is, because they’re a charter school in the playoffs (not as potent as Imhotep, I know), but I have to give them credit winning districts at the #4 seed. I don’t see Lakeland falling to them.

    Hot take: I think Lakeland can compete with Southern & Mt. Carmel, if they can get to the semis. Lakeland has beaten some really good teams, this year. They beat Scranton Prep, Old Forge, & Dunmore in the regular season (all by at least 27 pts). I know CalPreps will not favor them, but don’t be shocked if the East runs through Chapman Lake.

    3A has an All-Private showdown: Scranton Prep vs. Neumann-Goretti. I’m curious to know how a LFC team like Prep can stack up with N-G. I hope it’s a close game, but gut feels it’ll be a blowout.

    4A has Crestwood seeking their first title since 2014, against Valley View. I expect this to be a great game. I haven’t followed Crestwood as much as I do with Lackawanna League teams, but I think they could take care of business. Valley View does have the experience to get it done, though, & I feel this will be a revenge game for them.

    5A is a case of “the more things change, the more they stay the same”, as can also be said Northern Lehigh. What I mean is that DV is a district champions, but in a new class. They got Whitehall in a EPC/LFC Division 1 showdown. DV is battle tested, so they could beat Whitehall. Then again, District 2 doesn’t always fare well against the EPC South, as seen in the playoffs this year. Then comes the fun part: Wondering if the winner of this game can stun the Imhotep/Roman winner. Wishful thinking.

    @ Pennsyltucky Proud

    I might have to start calling it the Knoebels Bowl. As someone who loves Knoebels, I’m shocked they haven’t put something on the line for the game. Something like winner getting the entire school a day at the park, at the end of the year would be fun & add a twist to the rivalry. It doesn’t need it, but I’d love it.

  365. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    @DENNIS and @NE PA
    The Battle for Knoebels will be epic. May the best team win!

  366. MCA75 says:

    One thing MCA does have going for them is Spears is back at QB (although still not 100%) which they did not have in the first matchup. Another thing is after 7 straight games played in Catawissa, the game is at the Silver Bowl. MCA has to come out strong and win the turnover battle again. I believe SCA is also without at least 1 defensive starter who was ejected against Troy. I also read another starter was hurt in the first half against Troy and wasn’t clear on whether he would be playing this week.

    Another game to watch this weekend is the Danville vs Loyalsock rematch. Danville won the first game 17-14 I believe. Loyalsock struggled with Troy who just got blown out by Southern. I think Danville wins this one again and will end up having to beat Wyomissing to get to the final.

    One game I am curious about is Jersey Shore vs Allentown Central Catholic. ACC doesn’t have the best record this year but looks like they lost to some of the better big schools in the Lehigh Valley. I see Jersey Shore winning this one and making it at least to the ‘Western Final’ to battle one of those tough 4A WPIAL teams.

  367. Jeff H. says:

    I don’t think I ever recall a district semi-final where all 4 schools had won multiple state titles like we have with the 4A semi-finalists in the WPIAL this Friday. I have seen all the 5A and 6A teams in the WPIAL this fall in person and I think McKeesport is as good or better than any of them. I have thought since the beginning of the season McKeesport is the biggest threat to Aliquippa getting out of the district, and nothing has changed my mind, this has all the makings of another instant classic, like last year when Aliquippa beat McKeesport 27-21 in OT in the semifinals. In the other semi-final Central Valley takes on resurgent TJ. Most people I know are anticipating an Aliquippa vs. Central Valley rematch from the last game of the regular season, but don’t be surprised if McKeesport and/or TJ spoil the Beaver County showdown.

    In 5A I think USC and PR are pretty evenly matched, and if USC’s defense can slow down PR QB Ryan Palmieri they have a pretty good chance to beat them, Woody knew he was going to run the ball on most plays last week and they still couldn’t stop him, on one drive in the fourth quarter he ran on 14 straight plays. I think Erie Prep beats either of them next week, although they are going to have to shake the rust off after not playing for the last 3 weeks.

    In 6A I think PCC will beat NA and avenge their early season loss, I was at that 7-3 game, and it appears to me PCC has improved more since then than NA. I think the winner of State College and Erie McDowell has a decent chance to beat the WPIAL winner next week, both PCC and NA are solid but not great teams.

  368. DENNIS says:

    @ NE PA Might be the other way around. However Southern is beat up a bit. Southern is a different team then the first time around. We will see!

  369. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh should get past Lackawanna Trail this Saturday. Both teams played last year with Northern Lehigh winning 35-14. Lackawanna did pull an upset over 7-3 Old Forge two weeks ago, so Northern can’t take them lightly. I’ll go Northern 28-7. That would set up a big quarterfinal matchup thanksgiving weekend against Steelton. Steelton would be the favorite, but Northern I think gives them a game. We shall see.

  370. D11 Matt says:

    See a lot of discussion on MCA vs SC and NS vs Northwestern. Both should be great games. I’ll go MCA over Southern 36-35 in double OT. Northwestern (who has been playing great since Bangor loss) over North Schuylkill 28-21. Freedom over Parkland 24-14 as a bonus.

  371. NE PA says:

    All about winning and advancing at this point Sir Brian. They beat a great North Schuylkill team and blew out a great Dunmore team. I know it was week 1 and 2 but they still threw them around. This week will be very tough and will probably be a grind but I think they will eventually wear Southern down in the second half like Southern is used to doing in the past years. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

  372. Brian says:

    Sorry Bub, but I’m not sure that this year’s team is as impressive as you imply. Yes, they’re the size of a college team, but do we see them dominating opponents like they’re a college team playing a high school team? What great teams did they blow out? A below par SCA team had five turnovers and that still wasn’t a blow out. They had issues with Milton. Heck, they struggled with Shik. Who has Shik beaten this year? You’re not exactly comparing apples to oranges as this year’s team hasn’t played great teams thus far. With their size, they should be able to do a Henry Hynoski and drag multiple players with them into the end zone. Sorry, I’m just not seeing it. They have a soft schedule, they start slow, and they make a multitude of errors. I think they’ll have issues when they hit a well disciplined team that will use their weaknesses against them. I guess time will tell, but I just wasn’t impressed with what I’ve seen so far. Everyone looks great when playing teams that have losing records or also don’t play anyone. MCA is 12-0, but hasn’t really hit a quality opponent to test their strengths and weaknesses. I personally think the 95 team would have beaten this team. But, we’ll see how far they get.

  373. Brian says:

    @ Bub I guess we’ll see. I just don’t see them as a state champion quality team. Too many errors, lack luster starts to their games, and really struggles with teams that weren’t that impressive. This MCA team looks like the size of a college team. They should be totally dominating their opponents. That’s not really been the case. They have struggled in several games. You’re impressed with their performance with Hughesville, but who exactly did Hughesville play and beat that was any good? How did they not completely dominate Shikellamy in the first half of the game? They should have been mercy ruled by the half, at least. Shik beat nobody this year. Milton also kept it close with them. SCA turned the ball over 5 times and the game wasn’t a blow out. Truly, they may be an undefeated team, but they’ve not been a dominant team against sub par opponents. They have kids the size of Hynoski on their team. They should be able to drag multiple players down the field to the end zone like he did. I’m just not seeing that, are you?

  374. Margaret says:

    Who cares if this years Mca team scores the most any other team has. Where does that get you. Mca has a great team. Ultimately I think there coaching will cost them as well. Darrah is a Wally hall stooge. With the exception of southern, north schuylkill and Milton they have played very bad teams. It’s hard to tell how good Diaz is because it seems like he has big games against very bad teams but I don’t think he’s that good against the good teams

  375. Bub says:

    MCA is 12-0. I read in the Shamokin Item that this years team is on pace to have more points per game and more yardage than any team in Mount Carmel football history, yes that includes all of it’s great eastern conf. champs from the 60’s and 70’s and it’s state championship teams from the 90’s – 2000’s. But @ Brian is just not impressed. He thinks this team should be even more dominating! He isn’t even happy with 41 points on Hughsville in the first half, he wanted it in the first quarter! If your married, I pity your wife….LOL.

  376. Brian says:

    @Bub MCA should have been able to do that in the first quarter if their team were truly a state champion caliber team. This was Hughesville, who was a sub par opponent. I’ve seen MCA play and I’ve really not been that impressed. For their size, they should be dominating all of their opponents. They’ve not shown that dominance and their schedule wasn’t all that challenging. I don’t think they should be resting on their laurels.

  377. MCA75 says:

    I realize it may sound silly to complain with the score but I expected MCA to come out and dominate Hughesville from the get go. This team has started off many games slow this year, which I don’t think they can afford to do from here on out. Also, yeah I have a high expectation of play at this point in the season. That was game 12, stupid mistakes and penalties (although there were some bad calls) should be minimized by now.

  378. Bub says:

    I guess coming out and putting 41 on a team by the half is playing flat and uninspiring to you. Yeah kinda tough to get up to your expectation of play against hughsville.

  379. Margaret says:

    And I’m a big north schuylkill fan. An even bigger Rick Geist fan. I don’t adapt from shenandoah

  380. Margaret says:

    North schuylkill wins. Wally and his offensive coordinators will keep it close. But north schuylkill won’t lose to a team who only runs the ball

  381. Adam says:

    Margaret, I remember before that you are a big Wally Hall and NS fan. What are your thoughts on the North Schuylkill game?

  382. NE says:

    A great game on paper for the district 11 AAA title. North Schuylkill v Northwestern Lehigh. One deciding factor in the game. Can North Schuylkill stop Cade Christopher? They’ve been stellar against the run all year it’s going to be a very interesting matchup. If they can bottle him up, they should have a good shot to beat them.

  383. Paul White says:

    Every thing at 5A in D1 went as planned. The 4 best teams are still in. You could say Chester could have a top four but the game at PW wasnt even close. PW pushed them around all night. Any one of the final four could win it. I suspect Upper Dublin and Strath Haven will play in the final but Rustin seems to be playing at a much higher level since they got healthy and if one team that gets in Upper Dublins head, it’s PW. They know each other well and last years playoff was a crazy game with PW coming out on top. A lot of starters returning for both teams. I’ll give the advantage to UD but don’t be shocked if there is an upset.

  384. MCA75 says:

    Mount Carmel needs to start playing football from the opening whistle if they want to continue playing. If they come out flat and uninspired like they did yesterday, their undefeated season will come to an end quickly on Friday night. Too many penalties and stupid mistakes will cost them dearly at this stage of the game.

  385. Margaret says:

    The only thing worse than a southern fan winning state championships is a southern fan who won’t let go and always thinks they r the best in the state no matter how much you beat them by

  386. KMac says:

    Just an observation on the ongoing discussion regarding the “correct’ number of playoff seeds for District One 6A and 5A.

    In 6A this year seeds 11, 12, & 14 made the second round and indeed 11 & 12 will play in the semi finals. Seems to indicate that 16 is not too many for 6A.

    On the other hand seeds in 5A making second round were 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 8 perhaps indicating the correct count for 5A is 8 seeds.

    Always different year to year, but just an observation.

  387. Dave says:

    Looking forward to a couple of anticipated rematches in district 4 this coming weekend. Looks like Mount Carmel will have it’s hands full with a rejuvenated Southern Columbia. Loyalsock and Danville played a great one in the first meeting and expect the same in round 2.

  388. Helen Ann Long says:

    I think SCA answered a lot of questions this week in their thrashing of a very good Troy team on Troy’s home field. The return of Barnes and the adjustments to the SCA defense has made them a team to reckon with in the playoffs. This weeks matchup with MCA should be a good one for the D4 championship. SCA’s ability to stop the run was notable against Troy who had been impressive in games against Loyalsock and Canton.

  389. Kevin X says:

    Option #1 was the correct choice. Spring-Ford taking Garnet to OT and finally giving them a game since the first game of the season.

    Do I really have to wait 6 days until Downingtown East at Garnet Valley??

  390. Buddy says:

    The NP/CBW was one helluva game! No one could stop the other. It was NP’s to win, but like the Upper Dublin game,

    they just blew it at the end. It was 38 to 35 with 71/2 min. to go, NP blew the KO from west, and west got it on the 4 yd line.

    That was game. Then NP threw a pick with 4:40 to go. Their 1st meeting was 35 t0 14 West. Big improvement. If PV has

    any run defense ( NP has none) , they can beat West. GV won’t get past D-town west.

  391. Mike A. says:

    You tell me. How’d it turn out tonight?
    By the way, my forecasts were 100% correct but sometimes mother nature didn’t cooperate! LOL

  392. John says:

    Wild night here in District 1-6A

    1 Seed Garnet Valley beats 8 seed Spring Ford in overtime.

    Bo Horvath runs for 5 touchdowns and leads the 12 seed Dtown East to a 34-9 win over their rivals 4 seed Dtown West in the Battle of the Brandywine rematch

    11 Seed CB West beats 14 seed North Penn 44-35

  393. Kevin X says:

    @ ScottyB

    Option #3 🙂

  394. Buddy says:


    Thanks, but it begs the question: how often were your forecasts spot on?


    Yea, I know. But you got to sign up for min of 1 month for $12 per. (don’t mind that), but they say cancel anytime.

    Therein lies the problem. I’ve done that with several other venue’s and played hell trying to get ahold of them to cancel.

    Keep charging my card every month ’til I had to cancel the card! So, I’m a little gun-shy.

  395. Wpialguy says:

    Pittsburgh daily rainfall record for Nov 11 was broken and there’s still 7.5 hours left in the day.

    Allderdice-McDowell games was moved because Mcdowell’s field is flooded. Oh.. and the field is TURF!

  396. Mike A. says:

    @All concerned about the weather…
    I’ve seen worse conditions with just the passage of a strong cold front. Most of the eastern half of the state should be fine through 10-11 PM, albeit a little windy. The western half is another story. Rain will pick up sometime after midnight. Looking at 0.1″ or less for most spots during game time tonight so no monsoons likely. The NE could have some showers or a T-Storm early i.e. 7-8 PM and possibly up to .25″ in some spots in that area early. Winds should be 10-20 MPH with higher gusty. Temps generally in the 60’s for the eastern half of the state. Just for the record, I am a retired meteorologist, a former NOAA-National Weather Service employee, and a former employee of the DOD’s U.S. Army Atmospheric Sciences Laboratory.
    Enjoy the games!

  397. ScottyB says:

    @ Buddy

    Looks like that game is only available on the NHFS Network

  398. Buddy says:

    @ et al:

    Anyone know if the NP/CBW has live streaming? Free of course, I know I can pay for it.

  399. Jeff H. says:

    Like other districts lots of rematches tonight in the WPIAL, and the team that won the first matchup is likely to win most of the rematches, In 6A Mt Lebo hosts PCC, Lebo came back from a 16-0 fourth quarter deficit to shock PCC 17-16 on a walk off field goal, even though the game is at Lebo I like PCC’s chances tonight to win and get to the final next week against NA, who should beat Canon Mac by a couple of scores. In 5A the South Hills neighbors battle again, I watched Bethel Park pound the ball on the ground en route to a 27-14 win over previously undefeated USC in week 6, I have a hunch USC finds a way to win the rematch, they have played better than Bethel the last few weeks and think their comeback win last week over Gateway gives them momentum and confidence going into this one. Going to Woodland Hills vs. Pine Richland tonight, would love to see Woody pull the upset, but PR playing too well, they beat Woody 35-21 3 weeks ago and would be very surprised if they don’t beat them again, although game maybe a little closer.

    One of the most intriguing games of the night is in 4A with McKeesport taking the one hour trip to Kittanning to take on Armstrong. Both teams are 10-1, Armstrong QB Cadin Olsen is the WPIAL’s leading passer with just under 3,000 yards for the season with 40 TD passes, McKeesport has one of the best defenses giving up only a little more than 6 points/game and a relentless rushing attack, These 2 teams played in the playoffs last year with McKeesport winning 35-21, I think McKeesport wins again tonight to set up a monumental showdown next week with Aliquippa in the semi-finals.

    @Kevin X – that is definitely not a bad option 2 to see those schools battle for a trip to the district semi’s.

  400. Kevin X says:

    Mmmmm, option #2


  401. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    If not, there is always the Battle of the Brandywine part 2, which I’m sure will be streamed.

    I’m also hoping to find a live stream of the PJPII @ Interboro 4A championship game. Bucs RB Abu Kamara is 127 yards away from breaking the all-time Delco single season rushing mark, he comes into tonight’s game with 2392 yards rushing and 34 td’s.

  402. Eric Weiser says:

    D3 games postponed from tonight until Sat.

    Dover @ Exeter 7:00
    Ship @ Solanco 6:00
    Trinity @ Annville Cleona 7:00

  403. Wpialguy says:

    If anyone wants to read two great stories about 2 western PA teams i am posting the links below. The first is about Westinghouse.. the Pittsburgh city league team who’s now become very good. Their coach has completely changed the culture and program around in one of Pittsburgh’s poorest areas.

    The 2nd is a story about the mapletown maples. One of the smallest schools in Pennsylvania situated on the PA/WV border. Graduates 32 kids and they are 11-0 and in the wpial quarterfinals for the first time in history. These are the stories that aren’t told when newspapers decide not to cover high school sports.

  404. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – Westinghouse is very good and will give Farrell all they can handle in the quarterfinal round in 2 weeks, I said on this board earlier this year to keep an eye on Westinghouse in 2A, particularly after they traveled to Harrisburg in week 1 and dismantled a very good Steelton Highspire team who might win 1A.

  405. Jeff H. says:

    @Buddy – I don’t particularly want to sit through a monsoon either, but it’s the playoffs and I’m going to see a game regardless of the weather conditions likes lots of other fans. We’ve had beautiful weather for the most part for the first 11 weeks of the season, no rain at all here in Western Pa on Friday nights, so tonight we have to deal with the elements…at least it’s not going to be very cold with temperatures in the mid-50’s, I’ve been to playoff games over the years in far worse conditions than what it looks like for tonight.

    As far as rescheduling, its not as easy as you might think in a district as large as the WPIAL, there are 20 district playoff games tonight, and moving all 20 to tomorrow would be very difficult logistically, because the WPIAL is not going to reschedule some games if they don’t reschedule them all.

  406. Kevin X says:

    Uh oh, the first D1 game change of the day, Springfield @ SH now tomorrow afternoon.

    I really hope the S-F/GV remains a go for tonight, if it isn’t, it will throw a wrench into my evening plans…..

  407. Kevin X says:

    I’ll just say I very much enjoyed a game last night in just about perfect November weather, and hope to, and looking like, will do it again tomorrow afternoon. Crowd probably not as big as it would have been on a nee Friday evening, but still a very nice crowd, but larger for sure then for what is being predicted weatherize. For you guys heading out tonight, your call. Enjoy. Looking like the Philly area may be getting lucky tonight with a somewhat dry window in the early evening. I tho still just don’t get it, if you could move a game a day up or back a day to avoid certain conditions, not a question of why, but why not?? Other than an immovable conflict, or personnel issues (game workers, etc.), again, I don’t get it. But so be it….

  408. Kevin X says:

    Rooting for a Westinghouse/Executive Education 2A final!!!

  409. Buddy says:


    What about the fans? Other than you, no one wants to sit thru a monsoon. This isn’t the NFL or college ball where it costs a fortune to

    move a game. This costs nothing. One should want the best game possible, D11 felt that way.

  410. Irish1 says:

    @ Jeff H….I understand that football is played in all types of weather been going to the games for years. But playing games in tropical storm like conditions even on turf iwhen it can be avoided doesn’t make that much sense to me but it doesn’t matter since they don’t care what I think. I was at a game for a league title in District one last year played in similar conditions on turf where the teams were actually going for it on 4th down inside their own 20 yard line in the 2nd qtr because the wind was so bad was impossible to snap the ball to the punter. Seems to me that teams work all year to get to this point to have a game affected to that extreme isn’t real smart. Hopefully it doesn’t turn out to be like that tomm night.

  411. Jeff H. says:

    @Irish1 – why does it make no sense to play to games Friday night, particularly if they are being played on artificial turf like virtually all of the WPIAL playoff games are. All district 7 semi-final and quarterfinal games will be played as scheduled tomorrow night “It’s an outdoor-weather sport,” said WPIAL administrator Vince Sortino, who sent an email update to athletic directors Wednesday morning. “As of right now, we’re on as scheduled.” Lightening and thunderstorms are obviously a whole different matter, but rain and wind…play the games, that’s what makes football unique. By the way the WPIAL makes the decision for all WPIAL playoff games, not the individual schools, and I for one will be at the game of my choice with rain gear and a big umbrella!

  412. RB says:

    District 11

    A – Northern Lehigh 27 Tri Valley 14

    AA – Executive 34 Catty 7

    AAA – North Schuylkill 42 Palmerton 13

    Northwestern Lehigh 34 Notre Dame GP 28

  413. Irish1 says:

    I understand football is played in the elements but playing district playoff games in tropical storm like conditions makes no sense either move them up or push them back to Saturday night. But why make a common sense decision it wouldn’t fit in with how the rest of this season has gone

  414. Kevin X says:

    @ Paul White

    They probably got a nice early on-line ticket sale business, so they got their $$$. No refunds, so fans be damned!!! Can’t believe only one D1 game has been moved as of this posting.

    I myself shall enjoy a nice early November evening overlooking SCI Graterford with Soudy @ PV, with nice pre game happy hour at the Trappe (and maybe even a post game embellishment as well, off for Vets Day Fri.) and then catch the best game of the weekend bar none Saturday with Haverford @ EA (with warm dry streaming Friday night). A good long weekend of football on tap (no pun intended)!!!

  415. Helen Ann Long says:

    In response to MCA75’s statement that everyone is ready to crown SCA state champions due to one player returning from injury. No one is saying that at all. SCA is going to be a much different challenge now that changes have been made to their lineup to bolster the run defense and take the pressure off Wesloski since opponents will no longer be able to key on him. Any team that can put 69 points on an opponent in the first 16 minutes of a game obviously has transitioned to a team to be concerned about in the playoffs. The team that lost to Loyalsock is not the same team that will be playing now. Troy as you might know had it handed to them by Canton, a single A team. As I said previously, SCA will be a tough out.

  416. Football Guy says:

    @buddy you’re participation trophy comment doesn’t make much sense. I guess those trophies this year were for cb east, coatesville, and pennsbury. District 1 is too big to have only 8. You guys would be the same ones complaining that teams don’t challenge themselves and the games stink. 9-16 seeds win and advance every year.

  417. Paul White says:

    Don’t expect CB West, Great Valley or StrathHaven to move their games. Those conditions improve their chances.

  418. Buddy says:


    Yea, don’t see many ” Mud Bowls” anymore, everyone has artificial turf.

    @Football guy

    I’m careful about what I wish for………….. I wish for 8 team playoffs. Teams won’t be afraid to lose anymore then they are now,

    and if they do, too bad. Like I said, it’s giving out “Participation Trophies” to the bottom 8 seeds (9 thru 16).


    OK, Souderton & PV got it right, will the others follow?

  419. MikeS says:

    @JCo- So is CB West, CB South, & CB East all under the umbrella of Central Bucks School District, as is Bethlehem & Freedom, your point is? @ Buddy- yeah I did go off a little, I didn’t think Garnet Valley really ran up the score, & I had real mixed feeling about whether Quakertown should be included, but also saw some value in it. Wouldn’t be surprised if Souderton beats Perk Valley, I wouldn’t put money on it, just wouldn’t be surprised. @Phillyboy- I kept saying a “Dangerous Precedent” because that’s what it is, So someone not happy Central Bucks isn’t winning State Championships regularly, so they combine, or the Philly schools get tired of the Catholic League and decide it’s time for a “Combined” team to compete, or Bethlehem School district decides to combine Liberty & Freedom, where do you stop or who’s to say they can and can’t, just really think we’ve got enough can of worms with the PIAA without opening up another one. Thus…. I do think, that cutting the number of teams in D1 down to 8 is important, plus gives the kids heading into the playoffs an additional week to get healthy before the big games.

  420. ScottyB says:

    Souderton @ Perk Valley moved to tomorrow night at 7pm

  421. MCA75 says:

    Looks like the return of one of Southern Columbia’s key players has everybody ready to crown them state champs again.
    Wasn’t he in the lineup earlier in the season when SCA lost to Loyalsock 27-10? Troy only lost to Loyalsock 36-35 a few weeks ago…
    Interesting matchup for MCA fans, hoping everyone stays healthy.

  422. Football Guy says:

    You guys discussing 8 team playoffs – be careful what you wish for. If that happened, you wouldn’t have big out of conference games to start the season. Teams would be afraid to lose early, so you’d have weaker match-ups and possible blow outs. So since NP, West and other teams played difficult games and improved throughout the year, they didn’t deserve to be in playoffs and move to the 2nd round? 16 teams is great bc it allows and teams to grow and be at their best by the playoffs. You want the best team to represent the district in November/December, not the best teams from September/October.

  423. D2 Fan says:

    @ Buddy

    I think some people dubbed it the “Mud Bowl” because of the poor playing conditions. A very rainy, muddy field led to a OT victory for Lakeland, winning by a score of 6-3. Believe it or not, the game was scoreless in regulation. It was hard for a lot of players to get traction because there was 2” of rain that fell before game time, leading to a very muddy surface. A lot of games up here were affected by that same system.

    I’m sure a handful of players might’ve enjoyed the rare opportunity to have a game played in those conditions, even if it was a difficult surface to play on. I obviously can’t speak for every player, or even the coaches. I could only imagine how tough playcalling was.

  424. David Mika says:

    Buddy…All good. I emailed D1 PIAA and they said they are going to have a meeting at 9am….It’s up to the schools.

  425. Buddy says:

    My bad. Mis-read

    Anyone hear anything about the D1 playoff games for Fri.? I see D11 moved to Thur. nite due to pending storm.

    I know D12 has done same in the past. Here’s hoping.

  426. David Mika says:

    Steve…I agree. I am glad they added more teams this year.

  427. Steve Disangro says:

    The KSFL 8man football is a great league, the PIAA should look into it, it is starting to take off. More teams should get involved. Well ran and very organized, exciting to watch.

  428. Michael D says:

    Strange off the cuff topic here, but does anyone feel there could be a need for 8-man football in the PIAA?……..i know its popular in midwest states but it could help smaller schools that just don’t have the numbers to compete or maybe for larger schools where there are no numbers turnout but still may want to field a team…could also open up some small schools in the state that don’t have football to start up football (not sure if its a cost thing)…I know there is the 8-man KSFL already in the state…..any opinions?

  429. David Mika says:

    Buddy…It says While kids not White kids….

  430. David Mika says:

    Buddy….I have someone montior post. I will take care of it. TY

  431. Buddy says:


    What the hell does ” played in a 6-3″ Mud-Bowl”, & white kids loved it ” mean??


    You do monitor these comments, right?

  432. Buddy Hensler says:

    All forecasts calling for heavy rain Fri nite.

  433. D2 Fan says:


    I’m a weather nerd, so I can give some insight.

    Tropical Storm Nicole is supposed to affect lots of places in PA on Friday, with 2-4” of rain possible in some places. I think the heavy rain could make some fields borderline unplayable.

    I read somewhere in a Times-Tribune feed on FB that Lakeland/Lake-Lehman a few years ago played in a 6-3 “Mud Bowl”, & while kids loved it, it’s also a bit dangerous with no footing.

    I commend them for playing it safe. Don’t want to see any star players to have their season & career ended because of poor field conditions.

  434. John says:

    I’m behind. But why are games being rescheduled in the first place? Is it because of the weather forecast?

  435. Buddy says:


    What does Q-town’s current & future football prowess have to do with GV running up the score? You went on a bit of a tangent there eh.

    However, 100% agree with dropping down to 8 team playoffs instead of the current 16 team playoffs in D1. Used to be that way and it was fine.

    Teams like Q-town, and yes, North Penn, and some other teams should have not made the playoffs. Over-saturation. it’s like giving out

    “Participation trophies ” for having a losing season, like in little league baseball & Connie Mack football.

  436. David Mika says:

    Games are being moved to Thursday night…Here is what I have so far…

    – Delaware Valley (6-5) @ Scranton (8-3) 07:00 PM
    – Notre Dame GP (9-2) @ Northwestern Lehigh (9-2) 07:00 PM
    – Parkland (7-4) @ Northampton (11-0) 07:00 PM
    – Dunmore (8-3) @ Lakeland (11-0) 07:00 PM

  437. Kevin X says:

    So how many games are actually going to be played Friday night as scheduled?? This should be fun 🙂

  438. phillyboy says:

    MikeS — It seems that some of these big public school districts have been availing themselves of phillyboy’s thought process. They must have been secretly absorbing his insights, good on them. They can even act like it was their own original idea, no fuss no muss. But why on earth are you triggered by the merging of two football programs that are in the SAME district? How many times are you going to refer to it as a ‘Dangerous Precedent ‘? Goodness gracious, I feel like I’m reading a 6abc Action News article.
    Those programs have obviously been struggling for many years, gives them a fighting chance going forward. Why are you so against a pragmatic solution to a chronic problem? Are you afraid Allentown SD might actually be able to compete? The merger may be a few things, but I don’t think dangerous is one of them. Btw the precedent was already set a few years ago with Erie High.

  439. ScottyB says:

    @ Buddy Hensler

    When Perk Valley hit 56 in the 3rd quarter they started emptying the bench and then OJR scored the games final 13 points. PV almost blew a 20 point lead @ OJR during the regular season so it appeared they were not playing around this time with the Wildcats.

  440. JCo says:

    @MikeS they’re not separate school districts. Allen and Dieruff are both part of Allentown School District. And you might be surprised how many of the Philly public schools are co-ops.

    It’s clear we will not agree on this, so I am not particularly interested in taking this any further. Ultimately it’s up to the district to decide what is best for its students.

  441. Michael D Smoll says:

    @Buddy Hensler – Garnet Valley played their 2nd and 3rd teams the vast majority of the second half, which was then a fairly even game, but you do realize, Quakertown had 3 starting seniors in their starting 22 right, so 19 of those kids will be back next season. Also, from what I’ve been told Quakertown’s JV & Freshman teams had 1 loss and 1 tie, so I suspect they may be alright next year. Even though they got smoked there was some value for this young team to get some playoff experience. Similar to the 2020 season and then last year when they went 14-1. Now on a personal thought, I think it ought to get cut down to top 8 instead of top 16, which gives each team a week off, like most other districts, and yeah, I get North Penn and CB West both won & would have been left out, I just don’t think their body of work was strong enough to be in. I mean Erie Cathedral Prep doesn’t play until the Quarterfinals of the state tournament, should be a very healthy football team, all healed up from the bumps and bruises of the season, big advantage there. Also puts more value on in season games.

  442. MikeS says:

    @JCo My problem is with the mergering of two of the largest school districts to be able to compete. You have schools like Nazareth, Quakertown, CB West that would have 1/4 of the numbers of students to draw from and compete in 6A. It’s the combining of the 2 I object too. If you can’t draw enough kids to compete, then maybe you need to drop the program. I mean if they were closer to 500 students each than over a 1000, maybe, a big maybe but maybe. It’s a Very Dangerous Precedent to allow 2 of the larger school districts to combine in order to be competitive. I get they are city schools, but so is Bethlehem, & Philly schools etc, & I don’t hear them crying to combine. Just a Dangerous Dangerous Precedent. I also understand you’d like to see Allen-Dieruff to be competitive again, but mergering sports programs is not the correct way. Dangerous Precedent.

  443. JCo says:

    @MikeS: Allen and Dieruff already are in the North division and still finish well below .500 every year.

  444. HR says:

    Two interesting games in the D11 AAA bracket. North Schuylkill v Palmerton. NS is much better overall but arguably the best player in the district will be running the show for Palmerton. Machalik is very hard to contain and he can throw the ball all over the field. NS will without a doubt get pressure on him, but bringing him down could be a different story. If they contain him, they should have no problem winning the game. Palmerton also struggles on defense. NS shouldn’t have much a problem running their offense especially on the ground. Flail can have another big game if they can get him the ball.

    Northwestern Lehigh v Notre Dame. Another interesting game with two completely different types of teams. Northwestern Lehigh will look to control the game on the ground and manage the clock. I think Christopher is going to have a huge game as ND will most likely struggle against a team who is mostly a power run team. On the other hand, ND looks to air it out and score as much as possible. Northwestern Lehigh hasn’t been giving up too many points, it’ll be interesting to see if they can contain their air attack. If Lehigh can get a few stops, I think they’ll be able to control most of the game on the ground and win a pretty high scoring game.

  445. MikeS says:

    @Hammerhead, I think it set a very dangerous precedent, if it was two borderline sized 6A schools, but assuming the schools are even close to what I found online, with Allen at over 1450 male students and Deriuff with over 875 male students, that just opens it up to mega schools athletically. You mean you can’t find 15-18 players out of a class averaging 330 students, for 60-72 players, really maybe they need to either go to the North Division or devaluing football. I think combining schools of that size just is a very dangerous precedent. You are not talking about a school of 500-550 male students in grades 9 thru 12, you are talking schools two to three times that size. Something REALLY wrong. Drop down but don’t combine

  446. Buddy Hensler says:

    Someone please tell me that garnet valley played their 3rd & 4th stringers after half time. Maybe suited up some

    parents from the stands for the 4th quarter. Otherwise…………shame. Same could be said for Perk Valley, to a lesser extent.

  447. Wpialguy says:

    Nothing earth shattering in D7 as most of the top seeds had byes this week, but two defending wpial champs were eliminated.

    In 2A #5 seed defending champion Serra Catholic was ousted by Washington.
    In 5A Penn Trafford was eliminated by Pine Richland.

    One big surprise was Woodland Hills winning. They snuck into the playoffs the last week of season and will now play Pine Richland in the semis.

    One very good game next week is McKeesport vs Armstrong. Two teams that were under seeded at 4-5 now playing each other in the quarterfinals. Winner will get Aliquippa after they dispose of Montour.

    The other 5A semi final is a big rivalry game. Bethel park vs Upper St Clair.

    2A and 1A continue to be competitive.

  448. Kevin X says:

    Finally got my butt down to the ‘Ville for a game this year. Worth the hour plus drive to witness another scintillating rendition of the Bo Horvath Show.

  449. John says:

    Also, another here was a pretty big upset tonight in District 11 6A. Parkland beat Nazareth 42-14. Nazareth was without QB Sasso (who is one of the best HS wrestlers in the country), but I still was surprised by the outcome. They play EPC North champion Northampton next week, which should be a good game. EPC North teams have traditionally struggled with EPC South teams, but this should still be a good one, considering Northampton blew out a Whitehall team that beat Parkland, but they struggled tonight against a Stroudsburg team who they beat by 40+ in the regular season.

    Emmaus v. Freedom in the other D11 semifinal should be another good one. A rematch of week one where Emmaus beat Freedom 19-13. Definitely one of the biggest games on the eastern side of the state next week.

  450. John says:

    Hey Yall.

    Was busy last week, so could not post playoff previews.

    But huge night in District 1 6A. 2 of my 3 favorites to win the district were eliminated in the first round (Downingtown West, Coatesville, and Pennsbury). 12 Seed Downingtown East knocked off 5 Seed Coatesville. These really should of been playing each other in a later round. Both teams seeding got messed up with the whole Downingtown West Coatesville game cancellation and Coatesville having to forfeit. We all knew the Cougars were better than the 12 seed, but still I thought the Red Raiders would pull out a victory, considering they were up 15-0 with 3 minutes left in the first half, and I am pretty sure Downingtown East has never beaten Coatesville in the playoffs. This sets up a second Battle of the Brandywine this year, since Downingtown West beat Conestoga. Should be another great one, I think its already been mentioned but DTW WR Hangey, cannot play in the playoffs due to PIAA transfer rules.

    Also, 14 seed North Penn knocked off 3 seed Pennsbury. This is not surprising. I did think Pennsbury would win though and we all knew North Penn was better than the 14 seed and had been playing better football down the stretch. Sets up a rematch with 11 seed CB West next week.

    Looking back at D1-6A rankings last week, all three teams I had ranked in top 3, 1. Coatesville, 2. Pennsbury, 3. CB East lost tonight. Really surprised about CB East losing back to back weeks against CB West. I know CB West was better than their record showed, but I did not expect CB West to win the Week 10 since they were coming off a tough loss to CB South. And tonight was even more surprising considering CB West was leading 28-0 at half.

    We are in for a great slate of second round games in D1-6A.

  451. Wpialguy says:

    Feel good story of the year out here in the west… Latrobe wins their first playoff game since 1968 in 4A. Play TJ in the quarterfinals next week. I’ll have more on the first round in the morning.

  452. Helen Ann Long says:

    SCA is back to being a tough out. They led Line Mountain 69-0 with over 8 minutes left in the second quarter and the subs played the rest of the game. They will take on Troy next week at Troy. Barnes and Wesloski were unstoppable and Barnes only played offense. The run defense was improved by several adjustments this week and as I said previously this is a different SCA team with the changes that have been made and I wouldn’t want to be any team playing Southern over the next few weeks. Yes, they will be playing a few more weeks.

  453. Hammerhead says:

    Even if Allen and Dieruff combine programs, they still won’t beat any of the other teams in The EPC south. I don’t see the harm in letting them combine.

  454. Kevin X says:

    Happy Participation Trophy Weekend everyone!!!!

  455. Helen Ann Long says:

    SCA has Barnes back for the playoffs and this will be a different football team with him in the mix. Teams won’t be able to focus on Wisloski now and Barnes bolster the defense as well as the offense. Other changes to the defense will also make them very dangerous in the playoffs.

  456. JCo says:

    @Mike S: They’re both inner city schools with struggles that other schools could only dream of. Both teams’ football programs have struggled with numbers for a while. Comparing them to Central Bucks is highly disingenuous and a bad faith argument.

  457. Kevin X says:

    @ ScottyB


    Only game that I would even consider that would be an upset of the 5 that you listed would be OJR over PV, which is not going to happen. Even #14 North Penn over #3 Pennsbury I would not really consider an upset. NP is playing pretty well of late (finally) and I’m still not sold on Pennsbury. Only other 2 games in D1 6A that I would consider an upset would be Garnet and DTW getting knocked off.

  458. MikeS says:

    @JCo REALLY ALLENTOWN needs to consolidate to field a competitive football team, You mean Allen HS with a male enrollment of the north side of 1400, and Dierfuff HS with an enrollment of over 850 need help to compete? You’ve got to be kidding? They need an enrollment of over 2250 to be competitive with schools smaller than either one of them. I’m at a loss, maybe the 3 Central Bucks schools should consolidate, as their enrollment would be less than Allentown consolidated, you wouldn’t touch them. Revive the program or drop the program, if there isn’t any interest, maybe the best thing to do is just drop it.

  459. ScottyB says:

    ***My mistake on the first matchup, should read DTE @ Coatesville***

  460. ScottyB says:

    With 5 of the 8 games in 6A pitting league rivals against one another, any potential upsets?

    DTW @ Coatesville
    CB South @ Souderton
    OJR @ Perk Valley
    North Penn @ Pennsbury
    CB West @ CB East

    ***Also just read that DTW will be without Junior WR, Dean Hangey (24 Catches, 610 yard, 7 td’s) due to the PIAA transfer rules. Could be huge in their potential next game against the winner of Ville/DTE.

  461. Kevin X says:

    And then you have the Butler Poop Show out in the west/NW part of the state…….

  462. JCo says:

    Mel Thomas, the coach of two years at Allen, has resigned. Interestingly, in an article with the Morning Call, he suggested that it would be beneficial for Allen and Dieruff to consolidate football programs, and that this had already been done at the middle school level, to some amount of success. To my knowledge, this is the most concrete indication so far of consolidation happening. If they can work it out logistically, I think this could be a tremendous help for Allentown football.

  463. Wpialguy says:

    Seriously…. How can the PIAA let that happen…. That’s all you need to see to know that 6 classes is one too many. Bye to the quarterfinals?? And i know that teams opted out.. but frankly you have to set up the bracket better than that.

  464. Kevin X says:

    Gotta love that lower left quadrant of the 5A bracket.

    Joke, disgrace, both, or other???

  465. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – IMO seedings should have been Aliquippa, CV, McKeesport, Armstrong and TJ #5, I was looking forward to McKeesport vs. CV in the semi-finals, I just don’t see how you can justify TJ at #3 ahead of 9-1 McKeesport/Armstrong given their record is 7-3, if they lost to McKeesport they are likely an #8/#9 seed for finishing third in the conference, and that one win vaults them to #3? And I’m pretty sure that Armstrong-Aliquippa game was tied at 14 going into the fourth quarter and Quips scored 2 TDs in fourth, sort of like they took over in third quarter against CV the other night. I watched the Quips do the same thing against Jersey Shore in the semi-finals last year, they had Aliquippa back on their heels and ahead by 2 scores in the first half, but Aliquippa scored a TD in last minute of first half to close the gap and then came out and dominated in the second half and won going away.

  466. Wpialguy says:

    @jeff h i completely agree about TJ. The wpial gifted them a run to the semis and simultaneously screwed Armstrong and McKeesport by seeding them 4-5… if you’re making McKeesport the 5.. at least make TJ the 4 and make them Duke it out again. Especially as Armstrong’s only loss is by 14 to the 1 seed Aliquippa.

  467. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALGuy – agree with your analysis and the winners in each classification. I am shocked and disappointed the WPIAL committee seeded McKeesport #5, they may be the best #5 seed in the history of the WPIAL. IMO it’s a joke TJ was seeded third, yes head to head is important and they beat McKeesport 20-10 on Friday, but they lost to both Laurel Highlands and Belle Vernon, and McKeesport handled both of those teams, McKeesport also has quality wins over Penn Trafford and Gateway, so their whole body of work is far superior to TJ at 7-3. Not only does McKeesport not get a bye this week they have to play Armstrong in the quarterfinals, Aliquippa in the semis and presumably CV in the final, if I am McKeesport I am really ticked off at the selection committee because they got screwed..

    I also have no clue how 3-7 North Hills was the final wildcard over 6-4 Peters Township in 5A, who lost to the #1 seed Bethel Park 27-21 on Friday, while North Hills got blown out by PR 47-0, would love to hear an explanation as to why North Hills goes ahead of Peters, makes no sense to me. Since they didn’t take Peters they had to seed Woodland Hills ahead of Penn Trafford, which is illogical since PT beat them 48-14 earlier in the season, if I’m Pine Richland I’m not thrilled about drawing PT in the first round, that’s the high seed on upset alert in the first round, if PR wins I think they win the WPIAL title then lose to Erie Prep in the quarterfinals.

  468. NW says:

    I don’t believe NW Lehigh has much of a shot to beat NS. A team that is run heavy won’t do well against NS, their front 4 and linebackers are very very solid and quick to the ball. That’s why Notre Dame always has a shot to beat them because NS struggles in pass coverage and Stambaugh runs a very good spread offense. But I do give NW Lehigh a good shot against Notre Dame if they meet because ND struggles on defense and Cade Christopher may run for 250 yards. In their last game, Southern Lehigh was without their QB and their offense was awful so I’m not putting much into that game.

  469. Jc says:

    Nw lehigh will not win the 3a title. North schuylkill or notre dame. I’m not saying they can’t beat notre dame but they won’t beat north schuylkill. Please don’t look at scores so much. Ok yes they beat a southern lehigh team 42-7 but southern lehigh is a big school playing in a small school league. They may have been the worst 8-1 team in the state. If we go by your score comparison then I could also tell you northwestern lehigh needed a late score to beat a bad pottsville team, they lost to a northern lehigh team that got crushed by ns. Bottom line is northwestern lehigh won’t beat ns. Based on talent

  470. NW says:

    I agree north schuylkill vs notre dame. NS has the better team based off the first matchup even though they lost by two touchdowns. Avoid turnovers and the deep ball from ND and they should be alright. Offensively they should be able to run the ball against them Notre dame doesn’t stop anyone with a decent offense. It’ll come down to gameplanning

  471. Jc says:

    I think your over valuing the district 11 aaa and aa teams to boost northern lehigh up. If we base everything on how you decipher things, North Schuylkill lost 4 4tds to 1 in a scrimmage with danville . Danville beat loyalsock by 3. Loyalsock beat Troy by 1 and Troy lost to canton. And ns destroyed northern lehigh. Ns line dominated northern lehighs line. It doesn’t matter if you have a line rotation if they r being dominated. Northern lehigh beat a 3-7 jim thorpe team 14-13 in a game thorpe should have won. Steel high will beat northern lehigh. I’m not even saying canton would beat northern lehigh, but steel high most certainly will. Keep in mind the ns loss was at northern lehigh.

  472. D11 Matt says:

    D11 finals predictions (what I think the championships and teams in them will be)

    A: Northern Lehigh over Tri Valley 28-14.
    AA: Palisades over Williams Valley 24-21
    AAA: Northwestern over North Schuylkill 22-20
    AAAA: ACC over Beca 28-21
    AAAAA: Whitehall over Southern 35-14
    AAAAAA: Emmaus over Freedom 14-10

  473. D11 Matt says:

    @JC…..don’t count out Northwestern in dist 11AAA. They destroyed a 9-1 Southern Lehigh team last week.

  474. Jc says:

    I’d let u know but they only post 1% of the things I send

  475. Jc says:

    In 3a north schuylkill has the best team. I just don’t think wally hall can beat notre dame this year. He will do the exact same thing with Weitz out of the backfield and it will work but he will over use it, everytime they put him in they know he will run it, he wont use chownasky and they will only try to throw the same bubble screen to flail not realizing he can get open on other routes, the defense will continue to try and blitz off the ends and darno will run, chowansky on blitzes straight up thru the center would do some damage they never do it. There will be 0 adjustments so unless they don’t turn it over I see notre dame beating them. If they play nw lehigh I see them beating them. If northern lehigh thinks they can bully tri valley they may be in for an awakening, not a loss but a close game, but then again I have minersville upsetting them. So if they play tri valley, close game, minersville its a blowout for northern lehigh.

  476. D11 Matt says:


    I think Northern Lehigh could win a state championship but I would put Canton, Steelton and Bishop A above them. Those might be only three A teams I would have favored against Northern Lehigh. Tri valley is a good A team but played an A schedule and Northern beat 4 out of top 5 dist 11 AAA schools. They also beat Catty who is in AA playoffs. That’s 5 playoff teams in class AA and AAA that they beat. They rotate on the lines which is rare for A. They also have been playing without Ramos who scored 6 tds in 3 games before getting hurt. There was hope he would be back towards end of regular season, maybe he will be back this week? If he is, Northern gets a returner starter and top RB back for a playoff run. Could they slip up in dist playoffs? Sure. But I don’t expect it and I expect them to reach state quarters when they would most likely play Steelton.

  477. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G. Good points. I haven’t looked at LaSalle enrollment numbers, but I think they are still doing well and recruiting from their usual areas. Their DB Coach has deep roots in Philly after leaving SJP, which should/could help them pull more talent there.

  478. WpialGuy says:

    Wpial favorites heading into playoffs

    6A North Allegheny, however i could see any of the 4 teams in playoffs somehow winning. Not a state championship contender.

    Bethel Park, Pine Richland.
    Another very competitive class. Think that cathedral prep will end up beating the winner of this game in the semis.

    Aliquippa, Central Valley, Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport, Armstrong
    I’d argue these 5 are 5 of the 6 best teams in the state in 4A. I expect Aliquippa to win, but don’t sleep on any of the others.

    Belle Vernon will roll to the state championship.

    Steel Valley, Beaver Falls, Sto Rox
    I expect steel valley to win. Sto rox and beaver falls can compete. Ultimately i see Farrell, Westinghouse or steel valley making it to the state finals out of the west.

    Bishop Canevin is the odds on favorite. Laurel can surprise people.

  479. The Joneses says:

    @D11 Matt proved my point with his post about Northern Leigh. That’s a program the prepared for a state championship with it’s schedule.

  480. The Joneses says:

    @Phillyboy and KevinX can anyone realistically say they saw ML in 21. NOOOOOOO. So I think people thought Prep was going to have an easy go of it last year and then were jubilant when it happened. I can tell you the Prep players won’t take it for granted in 22. You don’t know until you know. ML did not have names like some of the others winners in past years and got it done. I still ask why more schools can’t be great like them. It starts with coaching and preparation in my opinion. Before anyone goes there, yes I know they all practice and prepare. It’s how you practice and how you prepare. Yes you have multi-sport players on the Prep football team. Some coaches/players see Prep and all they have in their minds are the excuses echoed on sites like this. Instead of being reminded of what teams like ML did in 21. The game was lost mentally before anyone even touched the field. I know for a fact LaSalle practices for Prep harder than any other team, which, in my opinion is why they fell in 15′ to parkland.(I’m still bitter about that game, if you can’t tell) When your preparation and dedication to win a State Championship starts in January, it shows up in your non-league schedule and results are produced in December.

  481. NW says:

    @jc Who do you have coming out of 3A. District 11 is pretty wide open this year in 2,3, and 4A. NL should roll in A but the other 3 are fairly open.

  482. FrankG says:

    Good point, Paul.

    Just wondering: Does Roman get many players from outside the city? Is Wood right now getting players inside the city or from outside its traditional area in Bucks County? And does LaSalle have many players from outside the areas where it has always drawn students?

    One of the things that has happened is that the large network of Catholic grade schools has shrunk. Not only are there fewer such schools but the schools that still exist are smaller. So kids who until 10-20 years ago would have gone to Catholic grade schools and played in CYO leagues are now going to public elementary schools and playing in other leagues. This makes some public school people think the kids are being poached or even stolen by Catholic/private schools. At the same time–for reasons having nothing to do with football–Catholic high schools, including SJP, LaSalle, Roman, WC, Wood, etc.–are now recruiting (because they have to recruit to stay open) non-Catholic students. Of course there are other factors too.

    But if you look around the country–rather than just around PA–it’ll become obvious that the phenomenon is far from unique to Philly.

  483. JCo says:

    @D2 Fan

    I hadn’t thought of a formal scheduling agreement with D2 but that’s something I’d love to see in tandem with changing the EPC structure. I remember East Stroudsburg and Del Val used to have a good series going, as did Stroudsburg and Hazleton. Would love to see some of those games return to the early season.

    You can see some of the discourse lately bemoaning the fact that SJP looks to dominate 6A this season. The D11 champ has a history of playing SJP tough, most recently Freedom’s 24-21 loss last season, but wins have been hard to come by. Would non-con games against the best of the East have helped D11 get over the hump more frequently? Maybe, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. It certainly would help more than 80-0 wins over ES North.

    I think *something* is going to change; Northampton moving to the South feels inevitable, since the EPC is at the end of their two-year divisional cycle in football. But I hope we do see more change than just swapping Northampton with Liberty, Whitehall, or one of the Catholics. An 8-team EPC North feels like such a no-brainer for the coaches, players, and fans in both divisions, so at the very least, I hope we see that.

  484. NW PA says:

    I’m not saying this is gospel, but according to the Erie Times, it’s possible Erie Cathedral doesn’t play for 3 weeks in a row with their first playoff game being a quarterfinal showdown against the WPIAL champs. I guess a bunch of teams are opting out, which I agree with, there are way to many teams that shouldn’t make the playoffs that somehow get in. Cathedral is pretty beat up, but 3 weeks would help to get everybody healthy. That being said 3 weeks without a game isn’t good for a football team.

  485. MCA says:

    If Troy doesn’t send SC home, Mount Carmel surely will.

  486. Paul White says:

    It’s not just the Prep that’s the problem, it’s the ten the almost 10 schools in D1 and D 12 that recruit. Prep just does it better than them. D1 has to deal with Prep, Lasalle , all the Interac, Wood. RC. It adds up.

  487. jc says:

    Northern lehigh 49 mahanoy area 6
    Minersville 28 tri valley 27

    Palisades 35. Cattasaqua 13
    Williams valley 49 executive education 33

    North schuylkill 38 Lehighton 14
    Nw lehigh 28 jim thorpe 21
    Notre dame 48 Saucon valley 20
    Palmerton 41 tamaqua 7

    Bethlehem catholic 20 blue mountain 0
    Allentown central catholic 35 Bangor 7

  488. Buddy says:


    No, I wasn’t at the game. And I didn’t say PV was “much” better than PJP, “just” 7 points better.

    @ Foleman

    Agree. It gets to be a drag. The best the East can look forward to is being in the Eastern Final (state semi-final). Then lose.

    Yes, D1 is down this year. Doesn’t sound like we can count on the west to do anything either. And the beat goes on.

  489. FrankG says:

    Don’t think for a minute that the Prep doesn’t wish there was a Neshaminy in ’13, a Parkland and an P-R in ’14, a North Penn in ’16, a Coatesville and a P-R in ’17, a PCC in ’19, or a ML in ’21 to face in the playoffs. Of course, there could be but that’s not what the chatter on here and elsewhere suggests. Better to play a really good team, even if you lose, than to be win a big mismatch. Again, I don’t know enough to say all their games ahead with be big mismatches, but that’s what I’m hearing.

    If D 1 is way down, that can hardly be the Prep’s fault. As many on here have commented, the Prep gets kids from all over the Delaware Valley–yes, including NJ–so it’s not as if some team in the PA Philly suburbs would be a whole lot better if players from that school district weren’t going to the Prep. As for District 3, 7, and 11, their being down can’t be related to SJP since obviously the Prep doesn’t get players from those districts and it isn’t credible that potential football players are not coming out because they might have to face SJP in the playoffs.

    Going to six classifications was a big mistake. With all the demographic changes in PA and the decline in participation in football in many schools, going to six classifications has just watered down competition that much further.

  490. ScottyB says:

    Brackets have been released and they have Coatesville and both Downingtown schools in the same half of bracket. Wow.

  491. phillyboy says:

    @ Kevin X

    You’re wondering why 6A isn’t getting much love this year. Fair point, it HAS been pretty quiet insofar as the top classification is concerned, not much chatter. In a nutshell it’s what you implied, looks like SJP is going to romp through the tournament fairly easily, 6A fans are resigned to that fact. As a 6A guy it can be a little demoralizing. There’s no ’10 North Allegheny, no ’14 or ’17 Pine Richland or ’21 Mount Lebanon waiting in the wings, no hopium this year. If District 7 is having a down year, not good. District 3 and 11are gritty and have some heart, deserve a salute, but by rights, in theory, District 1 should be among the stiffest competition for District 12 each year. Don’t mean to belabor the point, but District 1 plays some pretty lousy ball. I mean come on man, lately they can’t even beat the Harrisburg or Allentown area’s best team. Unlike the WPIAL, no serious threat ever emerges from PA’s Philly burbs, total homogeneity.

  492. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, very few HS fans are not excited about 6A due to the fact that it would take some sort of Miracle to have any team win 6A this year that’s not named St Joe Prep. The West 6A teams are weak this year and looking at the rest of the top 6a Teams in the East-Nazareth, Hburgh, Cumberland Valley, State College, none of those teams could stay within 3 touchdowns of Prep. District 1 6A? We see how that plays out every year. Man, do I yearn for the old days of District 1 large school football-CB West, Downingtown, the Old North Penn etc

  493. Irish1 says:

    @buddy were you at the pv- pjp game? I kind of doubt it, so not too sure how you would have much of an idea whether PV was really much better then pjp or not. @ foleman really don’t understand some of the play calling for pjp in the second half. Pjp was controlling the line of scrimmage after giving up that early score. There was no reason to go for it on 4th and 2 from their own 25 in third qtr. They ended up giving PV a cheap td when they were having trouble moving the ball despite having great field position the entire game. Pjp out gained them 302 to 198. Pjp is well coached, but kind of felt like they thought they had to get away from what was working for them when there was no need to.Just punt and keep playing. PV took advantage of those breaks and that was the game. Frustrating way to lose.

  494. Kevin X says:

    Sorry guys, one more for tonight, then I’ll crawl back into my hole……..

    Want to give a shout out to two local Philly area kids, Marvin Harrison, Jr. (St. Joe Prep/Ohio State) and Will Howard (D-Town West/Kansas State) who both had career days today on the national stage. I saw them both numerous times a few year ago, and one of coolest things for me about HS football is seeing guys on Friday nights (or Saturdays) and then in top college programs and if really lucky the NFL.

  495. Dave says:

    @ Helen Ann Long, sent packing back?? The bracket I saw has the game being played at Troy.

  496. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy,

    Mmmm, maybe slightly better (PV) at most. They were fairly equal of what I saw this afternoon.

    Please help me then to get enthused about 6A in our Commonwealth. Yes, District One 6A is going to be fun the next 4 weeks, and to a lesser extent D2/11 and D3 the next few weeks, but after that??? 6A this year to me is what 2A has been the last 5 years.

  497. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Yup, that going for it on 4th and 2 early in the 3rd I did not get at all. Probably the game right there.

  498. Buddy says:

    @ foleman:

    OR…………… PV is just better.



  499. Kevin X says:

    Does anyone out there care about PA 6A football on statewide basis this year??

  500. Foleman says:

    Perkiomen Valley 21-Pope John Paul 14 2 Bonehead decisions by the PJP coaching staff cost them the game. PJP started out the game trying to be cute with an onside kick which was recovered and returned to the PJP 40 a few plays plays later they were down 7-0 Halftime score was 7-7 Bonehead decision #2 was early in the 3rd quarter, game tied 7-7 PJP inexplicably goes for it on forth down with about 2 and half yards to go on their OWN 38 yard line! They were stuffed which led to another PV TD. It didn’t help that PJP’S QB who has completed 75% of his passes this year overthrew 2 sure TD”S and had another sure TD dropped. Once again the PAC small school division takes it on the chin.

  501. Helen Ann Long says:

    For those who have suggested that Troy would be favored over SCA in the playoffs, think again. SCA will have Barnes back for that game and Troy will be sent packing back to the Northern Tier.

  502. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh finished reg season 9-1. They played top 5 in Dist 11 AAA as an A school. They were 4-1 against those AAA schools only losing to North Schuylkill. That schedule should help them in playoffs. Also should move up in state rankings with Tri Valley losing.

  503. D2 Fan says:

    @ JC Fan

    All salient points here. Most of your points were ones I figured were to be reasons.

    I always forget socioeconomics come into play with a lot of programs. I definitely see the comparison between inner city & both schools. The population stagnation also is showing up in Pike County a lot, which ES North mostly serves. DV & Paupack have been going down in recent years, as well. DV used to be consistently around 600 boys in enrollment, & have dropped to 5A (which is beneficial to them until they face ECP or Wood). Paupack used to be old 4A/5A in football, but it’s stagnated & dropped in recent years. Not the sharp dropoffs of the Monroe schools, but it’s noticeable in these parts. Even most of the state. It shocks me how Northern Lehigh went from low-3A to high-1A in four years. ES North possibly being a 3A school is very interesting, considering they were a 5A program for most of the 6-class era.

    I did forget that ES South & Whitehall has usually been close. That’s really the only matchup I remember of the more competitive ones. I feel like ACC, when they have a down year, is the second closest. It’s been a few years since they swapped with Northampton, so I don’t fully remember their run in the two-division format. I think they held their own.

    Lehigh Valley football is a religion down there, indeed. I try to watch a few of the games on BRC 13, which shows a lot of the SEN games. It’s amazing to see how invested those communities & cities are. Every divisional game feels like a marquee matchup when they’re on. Something that this area doesn’t have the same vibe with.

    Your answer about District 2 is the first thing I thought of, after posting: Transportation. It takes an hour for PV, South, & Stroudsburg to head to Paupack or DV, & if you include Honesdale, that’s pushing 75-90 minutes. They would need to raise the transportation budget to do it. That’s the most likely way. It would remind me of Williamsport in the WVC. Most of their games are about over an hour away, & they are usually at/about the same enrollment as a Pocono school. The relationship & rivalries thing is one thing that’s not easy to take away. Those Allen/PMW games have been good in the past, with hoops.

    Im hoping for a change in their setup, like you. Best case scenario, if they keep their two division plan, is that should make Week 0/1 (whatever people call it) as an open week, & let them play whoever. Either that or do three divisions, & let them have at least two open weeks to schedule who they please. If on either schedule, a team wants to play all ten in a gauntlet, that’s their choice. You can’t speak for every school.

    If I was an EPC head, this what I would do.
    1. Three division format. 8 for the Monroe & Allentown schools, & two five-team divisions for the rest. It’s basically the old Mountain Valley & Lehigh Valley without splitting.

    Monroe: ESN, ESS, PME, PMW, PV, Stroud, Allen, & Dieruff
    Northampton: Becahi, Easton, Freedom, Liberty, & Nazareth
    Lehigh: ACC, Emmaus, N’hampton, Parkland, & Whitehall

    2. Make an agreement with District 2 (I believe the district as a whole aligns 90% of the schedule), to have their 4-6A schools (3A allowed for ESN) play at least two games with North Division schools. It doesn’t matter the week, as if a school wants to play DV, they don’t have to play them in Week 1, when DV schedules a Florida game. It can all be done before Week 9, so it doesn’t interfere with any rivalries.

    3. Schedule a two-year agreement with a different conference in each cycle (one cycle can be with SOL, the next with PAC-10) for one of their teams to play an EPC South team.

    4. EPC South can either do a two-division round robin or have at least 5 games (division + 1 crossover) & free choice. The PAC-10 idea would work in round-robin format well because they can do it Week 1 or 10, & they can find equally close matchups. It can be set up via last year’s records.

    The above leads to nine games for the North. One game can be open to any program, even if it’s EPC South (in three divisions). The South would either have their ten-game schedule filled out, or at least have six games that they know they’ll play, & four games that can lean however they please. It would offer an opportunity to do more non-league/district games if there are openings, & even allow for some District 2 teams like Hazleton, a taste of subregional play.

    It would be a lot better than what they have right now.

  504. Jeff H. says:

    Regular season game of the year tonight in the WPIAL with Aliquippa taking on Central Valley, two undefeated defending state champions battling for the conference title and #1 seed in WPIAL playoffs. CV is on a state longest 36 game winning streak, and is the last team to beat Aliquippa 21-12 in week 1 last year. Aliquippa is 55-5 the last 5yrs, with 4 of those loses coming to Central Valley, including the aforementioned game last year and a 13-12 loss in the 2019 WPIAL 3A final at Heinz Field. Overall these schools have played 6 times since Central Valley was formed in 2010, Quips won the first 2, CV the last 4. Should be an awesome game, unfortunately Freedom Stadium only holds 2,500 people, they could have sold 3-4x that many tickets if they played in a bigger stadium. Aliquippa thought about moving the game to a larger stadium, but stuck with Freedom since they allowed them to play all their home games there this year while their stadium is being renovated, and the Freedom football/band boosters are getting the proceeds from concession stands, so they didn’t want to stiff those folks which is admirable, but sure would have been nice to have this game at a bigger stadium. This game could go either way, I’ll take Aliquippa in a close one to end CV’s 36 game winning streak.

  505. JCo says:

    @D2 Fan,

    I think there are a few factors as to why the EPC South is so superior in football:

    1) The Monroe County schools are much smaller on average; only Stroudsburg is 6A and they’re half the enrollment of Easton and Parkland. The population boom that fed Monroe County in the early 2000s has dried up at this point, ES North is now a 4A school and I wouldn’t be surprised if 3A is in its future. ES South at least proved it can hang with Whitehall in a good year, but there’s no way they could compete consistently with the top of 6A.
    2) Socioeconomic factors are not in the North’s favor; Allen/Dieruff are inner city schools, ESN and PMW have economic demographics that resemble city schools, and Monroe in general isn’t as well-off as Lehigh/Northampton counties. Population stagnation isn’t helping.
    3) Football (and sports in general) are a religion in the Lehigh Valley in ways that it simply isn’t in most of the North. They definitely still matter, and usually you’ll see one or two schools able to do well in other sports as well. But the amount of resources being dedicated to sports isn’t the same. The only reason Northampton is in the North at all is because they used to really struggle in the South, so they got placed in the North where they could be more competitive. Now they’ve definitely outgrown the North and resemble an out-of-place South team. Swapping them with Liberty would only restart the cycle.

    As for playing in D2, the Monroe schools would probably be better off from a competitive standpoint, but it’s more of a trek transportation-wise. For PV, Stroudsburg, and ES South in particular, transportation needs would go up quite a bit. Plus, some of the schools have formed relationships and rivalries with Allen/Dieruff over the years, particularly ES North and PM West (in basketball specifically, PM West/Allen is actually a premier matchup). It’d be interesting to see but ultimately I think it’s six of one, half dozen of the other.

    I know the EPC AD’s love having all the games scheduled for them. But they’ve got to realize that the current setup isn’t what’s best for the athletes. The upper tier of the EPC South NEEDS to test itself against non-conference opposition if they’ll have any hope of taking down the best of D12. The bottom of the EPC North NEEDS games where they won’t be completely overwhelmed. Hopefully, common sense wins out here.

  506. Irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X, shame on you for expecting any of these school districts to exercise any common sense in regard to tickets. Taking the very short ride over to PJP for Saturdays Pac title game. Hopefully the game will go on without any nonsense. These days thats not a given sadly. For anyone not familar with PJP, bleachers only on one side of stadium, as the school is in the process of what will probably be a long stretch of raising money for upgrades ..lights,homeside bleachers, and possibly turf down the road. Hopefully it is an entertaining game.

  507. Dave says:

    @3GS yes Troy has proven to be a serious contender. They opted to go for two, rather than the tie and overtime, but were stopped short.

  508. Kevin X says:

    C’mon, a glitch?? I thought today’s technology was glitch free. I can’t wait for the “glitches” with the gadgets that scan your phone or printed at home tix as you are waiting in line forever and day to enter the stadium for a big a game.

    “PLEASE SHARE: East vs West football tickets are still available. We are aware of a glitch with the online ticketing. Please attempt to buy tickets after 12 noon today. Important: you must use DASDFOOTBALL22 to purchase tickets.”

    I don’t ever recall any of my five dollar bills ever experiencing a glitch before (just that they don’t buy as much as they use to).

  509. 3GS says:

    It looks like Troy is a serious threat probably will be favored to beat Southern before the Mount Carmel rematch. Didn’t see any of the game but based off the score they must be a pretty tough team losing by a point to Loyalsock.

  510. D2 Fan says:

    @ Jco,

    A little late to the party on this one, but I have to agree on your EPC North thoughts.

    To add on, to those that follow it down there, I’m curious to know why the EPC South is miles better than the North. I don’t remember the last time a North team not named Northampton went toe to toe & lost close, or beat a Parkland, Emmaus, Becahi, Naz. As a fan from D2, whose alma mater borders four of the schools in the North division, it makes me wonder about the gap.

    I think the EPC would benefit with a divisional shakeup, or even going to the three divisions they offer in most sports. I think a reason why the 5/6A Champs haven’t gone past SJP, ECP, or Wood in recent years is their lack of out of conference.

    It would benefit Beca or ACC to face D3 teams like a Lampeter or McDevitt Harrisburg. It would benefit Parkland, Northampton, or Nazareth to play a D1 or D12 school to gain experience. It would benefit Allen, Dieruff, or Eastburg North, who regularly goes 0-10 to 3-7 to play some non-competitive schools in other leagues in a Week 0/1/2 game.

    Follow-Up question: Would those same Monroe County EPC schools benefit playing in District 2, whether in its own league or division with Delaware Valley, Paupack, & Honesdale or with Hazleton, Wilkes-Barre, & Williamsport in the WVC? Although I think DV would run the table with those teams, those schools might fare to be more competitive, overall, against D2’s schools.

  511. Jeff H. says:

    @Mcd 65 – yep, basic vanilla offense that can be contained by very good defenses, and a tendency to take foolish undisciplined penalties. Football is the ultimate team sport, the teams with the most talent don’t always win, you need very good coaching and discipline to go with all the talent to win state titles. I will also add that the coaching staff’s ability to make in game adjustments is a big factor, and for whatever reason Imhotep has not shown the ability to make those adjustments over the years, there’s no question the PT staff outcoached them in the final last year. Maybe this year is different, we’ll see, but for all their talent Imhotep has shown they are beatable.

  512. mcd 65 says:

    Jeff H. , I agree ,Imhotep has had the talent every year ,but lack the coaching and discipline to win the title every year. AA Neuman/Goretti is the same. Both teams produce great individual players that continue on to excel in college .

  513. Jeff H says:

    I know there has been a lot of talk on here about online sales only, I’ve been fortunate in going to 9 games this year at 7 different venues and bought a ticket at the gate for every game. For the regular season game of the year in the WPIAL and one of the games of the year in the state Aliquippa vs. Central Valley is all presale, no tickets sold at the gate, which is what I expected. What is a surprise is there are no online sales, you must buy in person at one of the high schools, so I need to drive 45+ minutes to Aliquippa HS some evening this week just to buy a ticket. I am still contemplating doing it for such a massive game, but I could take the easy way out and 10 minute drive to watch arch rivals Woodland Hills and Penn Hills battle for a playoff spot.

  514. Jeff H. says:

    @John – not many people thought Penn Trafford had much of a shot last year against Imhotep, and frankly I didn’t think they would win either, but they showed the formula for keeping the game close into the forth quarter and then pulling off the upset, They only had 1 Power 5 player in Cade Yacamelli who went to Wisconsin, so there’s no question Imhoptep had way more top end talent than PT. Imhotep overwhelms lesser teams with their speed and athleticism, but their offense is pretty basic and they struggle to put together sustained drives against very good defenses, so if either of those teams has an excellent defense and can run the ball and limit mistakes and turnovers and excellent coaching they might have a chance to keep it interesting into the 2nd half, agree if Imhotep has some big plays or gets it rolling in the first half it could get out of hand. I also think RC has a decent shot against Imhotep in the D12 final, will be interesting to see how they fare this week against SJP.

  515. John says:

    @Jeff H-

    I do not follow WPIAL and D3 as much, but I agree with you on Erie Prep. On what I heard about Erie Prep, they will probably beat the WPIAL and D3 winners. They beat a good 6A in McDowell 41-0, but they did lose to a NY school. Maybe the WPIAL or D3 champ has a shot.

    I remember Imhotep and Erie Prep played in four years in row in the 5A state champ (2015-2018), till I think Imhotep moved up to 5A. It looks like we may be stuck with that, until one is moved to 6A or a really special public school makes a run.

  516. John says:

    @Jeff H-

    As much as I want the D1 schools to win. I do not see Strath Haven or Upper Dublin beating Imhotep at all. Imhotep is arguably the most talented team in the state. I checked 247sports and Imhotep has like 4-5 juniors and seniors who are 4 star recruits. The team overall has probably 10+ kids who will play D1 football, with around 4-6 playing power 5. I just do not see Upper Dublin or Strath Haven competing with that. Upper Dublin has one P5 kid in O’Sullivan, and probably a few kids who could FCS or high level D2-D3, but nothing that compares to Imhotep’s talent. Strath Haven from checking twitter has 1-2 kids with patriot league offers I think, and maybe a few other kids who could play at that level or high level D2-D3 or maybe are going D1 in another sport, but still nothing that compares to Imhotep. I just do not see how either of them would be able to pull off a victory against that loaded of a team in Imhotep. Imhotep will also be better rested and have less wear and tear as well, they are only playing 7 regular season games and will probably have a first round bye and will most likely destroy their first playoff opponents until the D12 championship. By the time the semis roll around Imhotep will be on game 12, when UD/Strath Haven will be on game 15. I know its only 3 games by it makes a difference, considering Imhotep has had multiple bye weeks. Not trying to make a excuse for the D1 teams, its just my observation. Overall, Imhotep would probably beat Upper Dublin/Strath Haven by 3-5 touchdowns.

    Upper Dublin/Strath Haven may have a shot against Roman. Roman’s offense has kind of looked shaky against their better opponents, they were shut out by Malvern. I know Roman has that Denmark kid who is P5 and a few others who are have P5 looks, so still the talent difference will present. Perk Valley (who to me is a two round 6A at best this year) kept it close with Roman, so to me there is a chance Strath Haven/Upper Dublin could do the same. Overall, Roman would most likely beat Strath Haven and Upper Dublin, but the D1 schools could possibly pull off an upset.

    Not trying to take anything away from the Upper Dublin/Strath Haven. Those kids put their heart and soul into the game. They are both great teams filled with great high school football players and should be proud of their seasons and accomplishments. I just do not know how either of them would beat teams as stacked and loaded as Imhotep and Roman Catholic.

  517. Kevin X says:

    UGH!!! Friday Night!!! Phillies in WS Game #1 or do I get back in the saddle with Friday Night Lights after a good choice of taking a bye week last week?? If the latter……The Battle of the Brandywine (D-Town East vs. West) or Roman @ St. Joe Prep??

    @ Jeff H

    Since you directed the question @ John, I’ll let him take a crack at your potential 5A D1 v D12 match-up. I’ll just say that I did see 3 of the 4 teams live earlier in the season (did not see SH).

    But in my sticking my neck on the line predictions from mid September (yeah, NP running the table in the regular season, maybe I should just stop typing, but naw), I did say expect to see UD, SH, and WC Rustin, with an unknown 4th team in the D1 5A final four. I’ll take a chance of now adding Chester to that 4th spot, despite seeing them against D-Town West in one of the worse HS football games that I’ve seen in my life. What I am also getting at, is don’t count either Chester or Rustin, and especially Rustin, out of being the last 5A team standing in D1.

  518. NE PA says:

    North Schuylkill has a good shot to make a run to the eastern final this year. It’s set up pretty well. It’s much better than being in the bottom half of the bracket where there is Danville, Loyalsock, and Wyo who are loaded. If they can get out of the district it seems like District 12 is wide open with Neumann, Lansdale Cath, and Conwell Egan but you never know what those schools do down there. In District 2, I’m unsure about Scranton Prep and Western Wayne but it doesn’t seem like they’re powerhouses by any means. I think NS fans should be looking forward to what could be a fun playoff run. If they see Notre Dame again and they can limit the turnovers, that game should be a different story.

  519. Jeff H. says:

    @John – curious how you think Upper Dublin or Strath Haven would match up against the D12 winner, presumably Imhotep or Roman Catholic. In the west I think Erie Prep will beat the WPIAL winner and also likely beat Exeter to get to the final, assuming they win D3 like they did last year when they shocked Gov Mifflin. Nothing against ECP or Imhotep but I would really like to see a different matchup than those 2 schools playing again for the umpteenth time and I think a lot of people feel the same way!

  520. Jeff H says:

    @WPIALguy – I went to the Armstrong-Highlands game to see if 8-0 Highlands was a threat to the big 3, and also see Armstrong’s Cadin Olsen, the leading passer in the WPIAL the last 2 years. What I saw was one of the best passing performances from a high school QB in a very long time, as he threw for 447 yards and 5 TDs and also ran for another TD in their 56-35 win. Armstrong is a very dangerous team with Olsen at QB, and wouldn’t shock me if they make a run to the finals by knocking off one of the powerhouse teams. Olsen is committed to Penn and I think he will do very well in the Ivy League, he sure looks look a power 5 QB to me, 6-5, 210 with room to grow, good arm strength and made all the throws on Friday night, hits receivers in stride and lots of YAC when they get behind defenders. Even though I think McKeesport deserves #1 seed it will be the winner of the Quips-CV as #1 and loser as #3, with Port #2 and Armstrong #4.

    Also don’t be surprised if Woodland Hills beats Penn Hills on Friday, those 2 are bitter rivals, and Woody would like nothing more than to beat PH at home on senior night and possibly knock them out of the playoffs while clinching a playoff spot of their own, assuming PR beats North Hills, I would be shocked if they don’t win that game by a couple of scores.

  521. MikeS says:

    @John, I followed the SOL (all divisions close for years), Quakertown especially early in the season was in total rebuild mode. They had 3 Senior starters back, 3 others who had lettered, Beat Southern Lehigh (District 11 #1 seed 5A at last look) in the opener, lost a couple kids, played North Penn lost a few more, a 5-5 season with 18 out of your starting 22 underclassmen, I feel is a win, get them some playoff experience this year, schedule a bunch of usually tough opponents, CBW, NP, PW add in the usual in conference Souderton, & UD plus Pennridge at the end of the year, throw in a playoff game and they should be ready to make another run next year

  522. Margaret says:

    Mr. Mika wally hall is my son

  523. Skook says:

    Margaret gets mad watching 16-17 year olds play high school football

  524. JH says:

    Margaret – I agree they struggle to win the big one. Wussification? Yeah because that’s a real thing. You can talk about personnel, game plans, or game management. Those are the real things as to why they struggle to win the big one and it falls back onto Wally for some of those things.

  525. WH says:

    Margaret – I agree they struggle to win the big one. Wussification? Yeah because that’s a real thing. You can talk about personnel, game plans, or game management. Those are the real things as to why they struggle to win the big one and it falls back onto Wally for some of those things.

  526. Scottyb says:

    I agree that PAC championship game should be a good one between two talented, well coaches teams. They know each other well as PJP is being lead by former PV coach. Scott Reed.

    Something that has flown quietly under the radar is that PV has been lead by their sophomore backup QB a majority of the season after losing Senior starter Danny Koehler against DTW. He really had done a nice job.

  527. Kevin X says:

    Well the cancer is spreading, and spreading fast. Saw on the District One website, a new link has been added on their home page to purchase District One playoff tickets for all fall sports, including football. Plus the price for all tickets for all sports are now $7 (always remember them being the same $5 for regular season contest) plus the good old service/processing fee. To be fair, I don’t know if this is an “on-line only” situation for tickets for these upcoming playoff games, or just an option for fans, with day of game walk-up cash tickets being still available (barring a game being sold out prior).

    Hey District One, instead of being just another follower, how about being a little contrarian and do something admirable, like let fans and community members (taxpayers) into these playoff games for free (sans football). You are not exacting hosting SRO crowds on a 40 degree drizzly Tuesday afternoon at 4p. Charge for the finals and get some bodies in the stands for the kids to play before for the rest of the playoff and playback games.

  528. Foleman says:

    Irish1, you are right about that 2020 PJP team, they were strong at every position, probably would have beaten the PAC large school champ and would have made a strong run in the PIAA playoffs, it was sad that the kids only got to play 3 games due to covid. PJP is the underdog against PV next Saturday but they are well coached and tough. Should be a packed house at PJP and yes, you pay cash there for entrance!

  529. David Mika says:

    Margaret…..It seems you have an issue with North Schuylkill, Correct? Do you have a kid on the team?? Just wondering. If you’re going to attack a coach or kid it won’t be on here. If you want to talk football you can. Okay!

  530. Margaret says:

    WH, you sound like a tball mom who doesn’t want to keep score and everyone wins. The difference between a 28 pt win and an 80 pt win is 52 points, That’s 7 touchdowns, 7 extra points and a field goal, big difference. That attitude and the wussification of ns football is why they can’t win the big one

  531. WH says:

    Margaret – there’s no difference between winning by 30 or 80 haha. Wally does some dumb stuff but to be mad at him for taking his guns out for the second half is craziness. Salisbury was pretty much a bye week and it’s pretty good to have one before pottsville this week who they should be able to handle and then gear up to try and make a playoff run. It’s going to be tough to make it out of the district but they will most likely be the favorite to do so but district 12 and 2 are down this year and that’s who they’d match up with after the district final.

  532. phillyboy says:

    @ Buddy

    I know, NP beat LaSalle in the ’16 opener and at least one other time plus they beat them in the 2011 eastern final. Actually NP beat SJP in Infante’s first two years as I remember. NP beat Prep something like 17-14 at Plymouth-Whitemarsh and 14-7 or thereabouts the next year at Crawford Stadium. I was at both of those games. Actually Andy Reid was at that second meeting. Huh huh, phillyboy and Coach Reid at the same game, smh, classic times. But that was before Infante got all his recruiting infrastructure set, hence NP’s early success against them. Buddy, things are relative, is Lansdale as nice as Doylestown, Newtown (Bucks Co ), or Narberth? No, but you’re definitely not slumming in Lansdale or Towamencin Twp., it’s staunchly upper middle class. Besides, Lower Merion has a really crummy football program, lol. Lastly, the smart people to whom I alluded at the Prep etc. wasn’t the coaches per se, but rather the powers that be, the admins, the sigma male so to speak.

  533. John says:


    Oh geez didn’t know that about the 2020 team, I kind of forget that year when talking about team’s legacies. Definitely think next week will be a good game. Perk Valley is pretty talented across the board, but are definitely not unbeatable. PJP II has a lot of momentum going into the game, did not expect them to beat Phoenixville like that.

  534. John says:

    I kind of meant before Pennridge lost Picotti, I thought they were a contender for the D1 title, definitely a contender for their conference. I don’t blame him for transferring to IMG, they have pro level coaches down there. His transfer was probably more for development and coaching than playtime. Can’t blame the kid for wanting to be the most prepared for Power 5 football.

    Pennsbury turnaround is remarkable. Should be interesting to see if they can make a playoff run, they really only run the ball and seem to rely on Mulbah kid a lot. He is one heck of a running back though.

    I didn’t know Quakertown had all those starters missing, makes sense, the 49-0 lost to PW seemed odd, as well as giving up 56 to CB West. Still don’t know if they will be able to keep it close with Upper Dublin next week. If they are playing all those underclassmen, they should have a good team in the years to come.

  535. Irish1 says:

    @John….Pjp was not beaten easily by Spring -Ford in 2019 title game . Was 21-21 at half game went down to last 2 minutes before Spring-Ford was able to put it away. Also Pjps best recent team was the 2020 team that unfortunately was a victim of covid. That team trounced PV 38-22in a game that wasn’t as close as that final score. I don’t know if they will win next week or not PV has a nice team,but PJP has a talented well coached team that I think will play well

  536. Buddy says:


    Where you been? These North Penn loses are old news. Hell, we’re entering the last week of the regular season! We didn’t lose to LaSalle every year

    in the opener. When we used to play SJP……..yes. North Penn’s defense is the ineptest, by far, I’ve seen in the 24 years I been following them. Don’t know why.

    NP is a huge public school, but “well to do”? Not anymore (used to be). Their loses to CB east and Pennsbury were not terrible illogical. Not bad teams.

    But their lose to CB west and U. Dublin (a really good team) were. Up 11 points with UD with UNDER two minutes to play and lose! Please! If Picciotti stayed

    at Pennridge, and played defense only, they still wouldn’t make the playoffs. If he transferred to NP (would have to set up residency, like Udinski did), and

    played both ways, NP might be undefeated. The main difference between Public and Private schools: one recruits, one can’t. Except for the aforementioned

    rare exception. I doubt the private school coaches are that much smarter, but they get paid more I’m sure, that has a tendency to make you smarter.

  537. John says:

    I might as well do a District 1 5A top ten

    5A D1 Top Ten
    1. Upper Dublin (9-0)- Current one seed. Weapons on both sides of the ball and are lead by a Boston College commit QB O’Sullivan. Beat North Penn early in the season in a nailbiter and also dominated 6A playoff teams in Souderton and CB West. Defense is only surrendering 9 points a game and 85 points on season, 28 of those coming against North Penn. Should roll through early rounds and will most likely face the number two team in the championship
    2. Strath Haven (9-0)- Current two seed. Arguably the best team in the Central League, sucks they are not playing Garnet Valley this year because that would be a great one. Have one of the best run games in the area. Have studs all over the field in RB/LB Crawford, RB/LB Fooskas, DE/RB Conner, LB Farabaugh, and QB/SB/DB Milligan. Also have a couple good O-Lineman. Should cruise through the early rounds.
    3. Plymouth Whitemarsh (7-2)- Started the season off at 1-2 with losses to 6A teams CB South and Ridley. But have blown out every team since including a 49-0 win over potential 6A playoff team Quakertown. Offense and defense have looked great the past 6 weeks. Though they have been playing weaker competition as well. Beat Upper Dublin in second round last season in overtime and could possibly rematch them in R3 this year. Solid team, but I do not know if they are good enough to overcome Strath Haven or Upper Dublin.
    4. Chester (8-1)- Have dominated weak competition all year and defense has looked great all year. Though are very undisciplined, nearly having 20 penalties in their game against Downingtown West. Actually were close with the Whippets and kept their explosive offense at bay, I think Downingtown West had only around 230 yards of total offense, Downingtown West needed two big special teams plays to win 34-19. The offense has been shaky at times and they only have two wins over teams with winning records, Interboro and Phoenixville.
    5. WC Rustin (6-2, but D1 says 7-1)- Awarded forfeit win in their 38-7 loss to Coatesville, because of ineligible player on Coatesville, so D1 says they are 7-1. Had a bit of a slow start losing to Kennett and Coatesville, but have found their strive and dominated the 7-2 and current D1-5A six seed Great Valley last night. Have made the district championship, 3 of the last 4 years, losing in the R3/semis to Academy Park in 2019, but lost all 3 times in the title game (2021 to Strath Haven, 2018 and 2020 to Upper Dublin). Maybe not as good as previous years, but still a team that should not be slept on. They have traditionally always played well in the playoffs.
    6. Kennett (6-3)- Current 7 seed. Good team, had a big win over Rustin early in the year. Have some good athletes as well, especially RB Sparacino. Still were overwhelmed by Downingtown East and Upper Dublin early in the year. Big game next week against Great Valley. Probably good enough to make it to R3/semis, but will most likely have to face Upper Dublin or Strath Haven in R2.
    7. Springfield-Delco (6-3)- Current 9 seed and has a really good defense. Kept it close with D1-6A one seed Garnet Valley and shut out 6A playoff team Conestoga. Should at least win R1 game.
    8. Upper Moreland (8-1)- Solid record against weaker competition, have victories over two nonplayoff 6A teams and beat Springfield Montco a D1-4A playoff team, but were blown out by 4A one seed Interboro. They are the current eight seed in 5A. Next week’s game against Plymouth Whitemarsh will reveal in they have a chance at a run or not.
    9. Great Valley (7-2)- Like Upper Moreland, solid record against some weak opponents. Beat 5A playoff team Phoenixville week one and defending 4A district champs Bishop Shanahan as well. Though were dominated last night by WC Rustin last night. Will be interesting to see how they rebound against Kennett next week.
    10. Marple Newtown (5-4)- Had a tough loss to 6A Ridley last night 42-7. Though there first 3 losses were only by a couple points each, including a one point loss to 6A playoff team Conestoga and a 3 point to 5A playoff team Springfield Delco. Their game against Strath Haven next week will determine if they are able to pull off a possible R1 upset.
    Honorable Mention-
    Phoenixville (6-3)- First winning season in 10 years for the program. Though were dominated today by 4A two seed PJP II and 5A Chester earlier in the season. Unlikely to win a playoff game, but should not be counted out.
    Oxford (3-6)- I know the past two weeks they have looked rough. They lost last night to the previously winless WC East and barely beat WC Henderson who is 1-7. But prior to those two games, they kept it really close with some high seeded teams. They lost to 6A Downingtown East only by 14, lost to 5A three seed WC Rustin by 8, and Great Valley by 7. Also beat 6A Avon Grove in week 1. Don’t know what happen in some of their other losses though. Probably not a threat to pull a R1 upset and might not qualify cause they are current 16 seed and a lost next week will knock them out of the playoffs most likely, but still kind of a surprising team who kept it close with some good teams.
    5A is not nearly as wide open or competitive as 6A will be. Maybe some good early round games between teams 3-10 on my rankings, but I really do not see anyone beating Strath Haven or Upper Dublin in the first three rounds.

  538. MikeS says:

    @Phillyboy, People have been screaming to get Beck out for years now, you have the biggest school district around with nearly 1700 eligible male students, playing schools like CBW 650, & Quakertown 475, man you better be able to beat them on an insane amount of the time. He’s running the same offensive and defensive systems they ran in 2005. As far as Picciotti, it’s not like he’s not playing at all, he’s getting some playing time, just not ever play & down like he would have here, the old pretty big fish in a much larger pond. IMG does a great job of preparing the kids for college football. He gets harder looks from more of the big schools at IMG than he ever would have at Pennridge. That said Pennridge lost 3 or 4 games by under a score, as a LB, TE, RB would he have been a difference maker in those games, you bet. He was the best player returning to any of the SOL National schools. Was it a right or wrong decision, only time will tell.

  539. MikeS says:

    @John -Well didn’t hear anyone say that Pennridge was a District 1 contender with their lost IMG Recruit but did see where people thought they would be a contender in SOL National, as no one even suggested Pennsbury would go from unwinnable to undefeated in that league. North Penn can score, they just can’t stop most teams either, I don’t know if they changed personnel or not, but early it seemed to be personnel issues. Also note, Quakertown only had 3 returning starters back and all 3 were out for CBW< NP<PW, as well as a couple other starters, you take your best 3 football players off any team in the SOL & they are in trouble, I don't put a lot of weight on the scores of those games, would they have won, probably not, but they wouldn't have been blown out by 40 either. Unfortunately, their 2nd team all SOL RB in 2021 & 1st team all SOL DB from 2021, may miss the Upper Dublin game. Quakertown has the same feel & look as 2019-2020, lots of Freshmen, Sophs, Juniors starting only 4 or 5 Seniors playing, most of them back next year. Also note with the forfeit loss & a missed game, I don't see Coatesville as deserving of a #2 seed. Saw Perk Valley early in scrimmage against Quakertown, they won by1 score, really surprised they have done as well as they have. @Buddy Garnet Valley is a hike.

  540. phillyboy says:

    Goodness gracious, is North Penn really 4-5?? What’s that all about? Their modus operandi has always been ‘bend but don’t break’, lose to LaSalle in the opener, mop up in the SOL, win a couple, few games in the District 1 tournament and then bow out. The bottom fell out this year, they finally broke. Ouch, losing to CB East made it official, they’re about as vanilla as it gets. Truth be told phillyboy doesn’t officially have a favorite team (don’t want to get anybody jealous), but NP comes the closest. It checks a lot of boxes: big, well to do, public school district in Phila. burbs with a good tradition. Originally it seemed like they were the de facto heir apparent to CB West. Major respect to Dick Beck and company for taking out a very talented PCC team in ’03 (which was arguably the best team in the country the following year), can never take that away from them. But come on, man, I don’t know, at some point the question arises, have they been underachieving? The short answer is yes, but ultimately it has to do with the culture and will of the community/district. Although I’m partial to the classic public power team the private programs can make it happen, they got smart people, winners, who have the freedom to make decisions in their best behalf — and they do, as opposed to the complacent, sometimes arrogant numbskulls in the publics who to a large extent are ROADs (retired on active duty).

    Shifting gears, somebody mentioned that this Picciotti kid who transferred to IMG Academy is barely getting any playing time. I don’t know why people keep going for the bait, would have been better off staying at Pennridge (better yet could have transferred to NP). You never know, maybe they would have had a special year, a special team that might have made a serious run at a state title. Instead you’re sitting on the bench at some lonely athletics factory on the outskirts of cookie cutter Bradenton, FL. Unless you’re Najee Harris or Derrick Henry what’s the point of dealing with all that.

  541. Pennsyltucky Proud says:

    Marg: I like your spirit!

  542. John says:


    I don’t think Coatesville will garner enough points to jump to the 2 seed, even though they are deserving of it. Coatesville is the one team I don’t think North Penn will ben able to pull an upset against, too much speed and their DB’s could definitely be able to keep the North Penn WRs in check.

    Also it looks like Perk Valley and PJP II will play next week in the PAC crossover. Does anyone think the PJP has the talent to knock off Perk Valley yet. They beat Phoenixville 42-0 today, who is having their best season in years or will lose again. They have been the team to beat in the PAC- Frontier the past few years, but have never been able to get over the hump and beat the PAC-Liberty champ who has been either Spring Ford or Perk Valley. Even in 2019 with 2 future D1 seniors, they were still handled easily by a Spring Ford team would did not even make it past the first round in 6A.

  543. John says:


    I think a NP-Garnet Valley would actually be a great first round matchup. North Penn has struggled on defense this season, but this Garnet Valley offense has not been nearly as good as it was in the past, GV’s defense has looked great but they have yet to face a passing attack like Zeltt, Haynes, and McNeil. Also, Garnet Valley has yet to really play anyone that great with their best wins coming against a 5-4 CB West in the first week and 6-3 Ridley. North Penn while 4-5, has not really been blown out this season outside of their loss to CB West 35-14 and lost close ones to Upper Dublin (arguably the best team in D1 regardless of class), Pennsbury, and CB East. I could see North Penn upsetting a higher seed. They play in a super competitive conference, last night’s win over Pennridge is a step in the right direction. Pennridge is only 2-7, but lost a bunch of close ones to playoff teams like Pennsbury, Souderton, and CB East. If you put North Penn, Neshimany, or Pennridge in the SOL Continental they would all have winning records and would be the second best team behind Upper Dublin.

  544. Margaret says:

    WH lol. No you put some 2’s in with 1’s all year long and have them ready. 35-0 at half with 4tds by your offense and your number 1 defense plagued by personal fouls and other penalties you let them play the first drive of the second half. Maybe you put your 2nd string qb in to work with your 1st team offense. When your playing a team who huddles up on offense 20 yards from the line of scrimmage and who has there qb run to the sideline and get the play call on every play even if it’s 30 yards away and then has to run back to the huddle 20 yds from the line of scrimmage, you want to shut out that team. When that team controls the ball the whole second half and drives down the field calling timeouts with 20 seconds left to score, u want to shutout that team. And you ask do I want it it to be 35-7 or 80-0, I’ll take 80-0.

  545. Buddy says:


    You’re dating yourself with that ” Woodward & Bernstein ” comment, probably lost many of our younger commentators, then, maybe not.

    @et al:

    With all this C’ville drama, the only repercussion is changing a W to an L? Just curious.

  546. Chief Red Raider says:

    Finally, someone in authority has facts to report. This is an email response I got from D1 this morning:

    “Thank you for your email.

    I believe the Coatesville administration will be able to answer that question for you.

    However I can tell you, this week Coatesville HS reported the use of an ineligible player to the District One Committee.


  547. WH says:

    @Margaret What did you want Wally to do? Keep the 1s in there and beat them 80-0?

  548. Kevin X says:

    The always ever popular “no comment” :

    “When asked for the reason of his leave, Ortega replied: “No comment.”

    Related to Ortega’s leave, Coatesville self-reported an ineligible player to District 1 this week, and was forced to take a forfeit against West Chester Rustin, in a game the Red Raiders won, 38-7. The game is now documented as a 2-0 win by forfeit by Rustin, making both Coatesville and the Golden Knights 7-1.”

    But I’m sure those bloodhounds and the next generation of Woodward’s and Bernstein’s at the Daily Local News are all over this story/situation like they’ve been since the get go.

  549. WpialGuy says:

    1. North Allegheny vs 4. Seneca Valley
    2. Central Catholic vs 3. Canon Mac

    1. Bethel Park vs 8. Penn Trafford

    4. Upper St. Clair vs 5. Gateway

    2. Pine Richland vs 7. Peters Twp

    3. Franklin Regional vs 6. Penn Hills

    Play in game between Canon Mac and Lebo. Who said 6A doesn’t have drama??? Seneca Valley needs Canon Mac to win. But Seneca could also shock the world and beat NA

    In 5A, the last wild card is up for grabs. I think Penn Trafford could seal it with a win vs Franklin Regional. Could also lead to some interesting seeding if the defending state champ is the 8 seed and gets to travel to the feel good 1 seed story in Bethl Park. Pine can lock up the 2 with a win over Notth Hills and pretty much knock them out. Penn Hills can clinch with a win over Woodland Hills.

  550. Wpialguy says:

    1. Central Valley (Bye)

    8. Thomas Jefferson Vs 9. Hampton

    4. Armstrong Vs 13. Blackhawk

    5. Laurel Highlands Vs 12. Montour

    2. McKeesport (BYE)

    7. Highlands Vs 10. Latrobe

    3. Aliquippa (BYE)

    6. West Allegheny Vs 11. North Catholic

    The big question will be answered this Friday. Aliquippa vs Central Valley. How will they seed 1-4??? McKeesport has the best resume. Armstrong only loss is to Aliquippa. Central Valley/Aliquippa will only have one loss to each other. My gut says Armstrong will get the 4 seed, but if McKeesport gets the 1, it is easier to split up Quip/CV and put them at 2/4 and Armstrong 3. Hampton, Mars, and North Catholic all still in contention for the final two spots in 4A.

  551. Wpialguy says:

    1. Belle Vernon (BYE)

    8. Mt. Pleasant Vs 9. Shady Side Academy

    4. Freeport (BYE)

    5. East Allegheny Vs 12. South Park

    2. Avonworth (BYE)

    7. Beaver Vs 10. Deer Lakes

    3. Elizabeth Forward (BYE)

    6. West Mifflin Vs 11. Southmoreland

    Another big game Friday as EF and BV take each other on. Winner will get the 1 seed. Can pencil Avonworth into 2 seed and Freeport into 4.

  552. WpialGuy says:

    1. Steel Valley (BYE)

    8. Ligonier Valley Vs 9. McGuffey

    5. Keystone Oaks Vs 12. Riverside

    4. Neshannock vs 13. Apollo Ridge

    3. Sto Rox Vs 14. Mohawk

    6. Serra Catholic Vs 11. Burrell

    7. Western Beaver Vs 10. Washington

    2. Beaver Falls (BYE)

    Serra Catholic losing to Apollo Ridge changes up the seeding in 2A. Serra gets bumped down to 6. KO up to 5. Neshannock up to 4. Could argue Western Beaver could be the 6 and Serra the 7.

  553. Wpialguy says:

    Here is how I see the WPIAL playoffs being seeded with one week to go.
    1. Bishop Canevin Vs 16. Carmichaels

    8. OLSH Vs 9. Union

    4. South Side Beaver Vs 13. Monessen

    5. Leechburg Vs 12. Rochester

    2. Laurel Vs 15. Jeanette

    7. Burgettstown Vs 10. Clairton

    3. GCC Vs 14. California

    6. Mapletown Vs 11. Fort Cherry

    Very difficult to seed. I am trying to give mapletown the benefit of the doubt. OLSH threw things in a loop with their loss to burgettstown. Seeding 5-10 is very difficult. I honestly do not have an idea of how they will seed

  554. Kevin X says:

    Maybe some of the rumors had some credence after all:

    DLN’s Nate H. via Twitter:

    “New information has come in regarding Coatesville’s record. Due to a self-reported case of an ineligible player the week of the WC Rustin game, Cville is forced to take a forfeit for that game and is now 7-1 in the District 1 standings. Rustin’s record is changed from 6-2 to 7-1.”

  555. Buddy says:

    @irish et al:

    100% agree. These cancellations due to over-paranoid school districts, (I know, the safety conscience fans will say you can’t be too safe, and there’s some validity to that),

    will just encourage these kids (and I’ll bet my house it’s kids), to increase these threats exponentially. Soon it will be like covid year, no fans whatsoever.


    Excellent summation. I believe it will be Garnet Valley #1 and C’ville #2. that does not bode well for my team (North Penn). who will 15th or 16th seed.

    As for me, living where I live, that’s a helicopter ride.

  556. John says:

    Not a Coatesville fan, but I do not agree with District 1 if they are taking a win away from Coatesville. Ortega looks to have been cleared of wrongdoing. They are the clear number one so far with a week one blowout win of Pennsbury and win tonight over Downingtown East.

    Also the 5A favorites are pretty much clear to me as Strath Haven and Upper Dublin, both look like they could make a run in 6A. But I would give the upper hand to Upper Dublin. They have been beating up on 6A teams all year, and dominated 6A six seed Souderton tonight. The only teams I could possibly see knocking them off are Plymouth Whitemarsh and Chester. PW outside of losing two games to 6A teams in CB South and Ridley have dominated everyone they played this year including a 49-0 victory over 6A Quakertown. Though they have beaten up on inferior competition and have not faced anyone like UD or Strath Haven. Chester at 7-1 is definitely talented, only loss being to a good Downingtown West team, but just like PW all of their wins have been against some pretty weak competition.

    Souderton imo is overvalued at six seed in 6A. Best wins were against a 5-4 Quakertown (who were dominated by North Penn, CB West, and Plymouth Whitemarsh) and 2-7 Pennridge. Though Pennridge is better than there record shows, lost one score games to 3 playoff teams in Souderton, CB East, and Pennsbury, but have kind of dropped off the past two weeks in blowout losses to North Penn and CB West. Losing Picotti (Oklahoma linebacker commit) to IMG was a huge loss, I remember hearing people saying Pennridge were one of the favorites for the district.

  557. John says:

    Close game at Kottmeyer tonight. 14-10 Coatesville, but still a good game from both sides. Both teams look strong, the Battle of the Brandywine should be a good one this year.

    District One 6A looks up for grabs, no one is clear really a clear number one yet or looks unbeatable. The three favorites to me are probably Coatesville (always play well in playoffs), CB East, and Pennsbury. But both the Downingtowns look solid, and you cannot count Garnet Valley and Perk Valley out either.

    Top ten (6A) to me though are:
    1. Coatesville (8-0)- Not as explosive as previous teams. But still all around great team. Run defense is very solid and QB Susi has looked great this year.
    2. Pennsbury (8-1)- Great run game and amazing turnaround for program. Worried about playoffs a bit though since they have a very one dimensional offense
    3. CB East (8-1)-
    4. Downingtown West (7-1)- Only loss was to Perk Valley without QB Henicle and RB Mulville. Explosive offense lead by Henicle, Kucera, Muville, and Hangey. Face biggest test yet next week against Downingtown East in the Battle of the Brandywine
    5.Perk Valley (8-1)- Solid team as usual, though it has been awhile since they have really made a playoff run. Should finish 9-1 and win their conference. Will probably draw a higher seed. Had a big win earlier in the year against Downingtown West.
    6. Downingtown East (7-2)- Two close losses to two top 10 teams in 6A- Coatesville and State College. Team is very talented, might draw a lower seed due to their tough regular season schedule.
    7. Garnet Valley (8-0)- Will probably draw the one seed in the 6A bracket this year. Have not really played anyone that great this year, biggest win was probably against 5-4 CB West week 1. Defense has looked great this year, but offense seems kind of questionable. Outside of them and Strath Haven the Central League looks down this year. Tough to judge how good they really are since they are not playing Strath Haven. Have made playoff runs in the past, though they seem like they are primed for round 1 or 2 upset
    8. Spring Ford (5-3)- Solid team with a close losses to a good Perk Valley team and two solid District 3 teams in Cumberland Valley and Manheim Township. Should win last two games and enter playoffs at 7-3. Could be a threat to beat a high seed team in the first round
    9. CB West (5-4)- Tough loss tonight, but still I would rank them over CB South. Kept it close with Pennsbury and Garnet Valley and beat North Penn. Should be able to keep it close with CB East next week. Do not know if they are good enough for a playoff run, but could pull off an early round upset.
    10. CB South (6-3)- Surprising win tonight over CB West. Look like a good team, but probably not good enough for a playoff run.
    Honorable Mention-
    North Penn (4-5)- Look like are having a down year, but still I had to resist the urge out of putting them in the top ten. But their offense is legit with QB Zeltt and WR Haynes. 3 of their losses were really close to great team. With a last minute loss to Upper Dublin (the best team in D1-5A) and two close losses to Pennsbury and CB East, this team should not be counted out. Though in recent years they have struggled in the playoffs, they have not made it past the second round since 2018. If they can fix things on defense this team could definitely knock off a higher seed and may rematch CB East or Pennsbury in R1.
    1-7 to me are teams I could possibly see winning the district or making a playoff run at least. There is little difference between them and we are primed for some great playoff games this season.

  558. Chief Red Raider says:

    Did they take a win away from Coatesville? The PIAA D1 website has their game with Rustin as a loss — 2/0 ??????????? This seems very fishy, because I think they would be ranked number 1 after beating DTE tonight. Is this what Ortega’s administrative leave is about?

  559. Margaret says:

    Take your foot of the pedal wally hall. You were just outscored 7-0 in the second half by one of the worst teams in the state. Lol

  560. Irish1 says:

    @Kevin X,,,, I’m done. This has become a joke. These school districts letting every lunatic with a computer get away with this nonsense by giving in and cancelling or postponing all these games. The school district announcement breaking out the old ” with an abundance of caution” right out of the covid playbook. What type of a message are school districts sending by letting these cowards win.Its a shame for the teams to have the excitement of a big game,crowd etc taken away. The whole online ticket thing is a joke,by the way I hope they plan on refunding the money for tickets purchased. As far as the game you were thinking of attending once they sent out all those marching orders I would say no thanks. The powers that be have managed to take something as high school football on Fridays nights in the fall and drained all the fun out of it. Oh well guess can watch the Phillies now.

  561. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    So much for your game…….

    “Due to an unsubstantiated threat of violence made on social media, the football game scheduled for tonight between Phoenixville Area High School and Pope John Paul II has been POSTPONED until Saturday, October 22. ONLY PARENTS FROM BOTH TEAMS WILL BE ALLOWED TO ATTEND.”

    Maybe someone had enough of the on-line only ticketing.

  562. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Ahhh, the on-line ticketing only. That still has me less than 7 hours before kickoff up in the air about going to the Coatesville @ Downingtown East game. Guess the longer I wait, the less chance I’ll be making a return trip to Kottmeyer. And now this gem with regards to tonight game:

    “To assist with crowd control for this Friday’s(10/21) game, Downingtown fans will use the left side of the stadium for entrance (as you face the stadium), Coatesville will be using the right side. Downingtown will use the “away” snack bar and Coatesville will use the “home” concession stand.” Guess as a neutral fan, I’m not welcome or allowed.

    May just be a local Route 309 game tonight, southbound Soudy @ Upper Dub, or northbound North Penn @ Pennridge. Basically a play-in playoff game for North Penn.

    Or a night of Phillies and streaming. Decisions decisions……..

  563. Irish1 says:

    For anyone who may be looking for a game to go to tonight… PJP vs Phoenixville should be a good one. The game is for the Frontier Division title of the Pac 10 with the winner advancing to the Pac title game next week. PJP comes into the game undefeated. Phoenixville has its best team in several years. PJP is favored but this is a rivalry game, should be a good crowd. Both teams starting lineups are largely sophmore and junior dominated so should be a key battle for next few years. For anyone who may want to go be aware its online tickets only as is sadly the case with most Pac 10 schools.

  564. David Mika says:

    MCA75..Thank you! Huge win for Mount Carmel!

  565. MCA75 says:

    @Dave – Just watched your podcast for the first time, great stuff! Hopefully you can make it up to Mt. Carmel for a playoff game.

  566. Jeff H. says:

    @MCA76 – Westinghouse is in the Pittsburgh City League, District 8, which is not part of the WPIAL. They made the state playoffs last year and lost in the third round to Farrell 24-7, they are very good and will give Farrell or the WPIAL winner all they can handle. For reference they traveled to Harrisburg last month in week 1 and beat Steelton-Highspire 39-18, they also beat Clairton in week 0 40-8, the rest of their schedule is against weak competition in the city league, other than blowing out Butler a few weeks ago.

  567. Dave says:

    @WH, Loyalsock had over twice the yards of offense as Danville in the first meeting but were hurt by turnovers. Should be a great rematch.

  568. Chief Red Raider says:

    According to Coatesville Football’s Facebook page, Coach Ortega is back and will be coaching this weekend. One would guess the rumors of Philly players living with coaches, staying in hotels, or going home to attend do school, etc. are unfounded (and didn’t pass the smell test) — don’t think Ortega would be back if they are true. Still haven’t seen confirmation as to why he was on leave (the text message thing seems plausible), but the rumor mill looks a lot like fake news right now.

  569. WH says:

    District 11 AAA shaping up to be a great tournament in a couple of weeks. The semi-finals and final look to all be pretty good games and if North Schuylkill and Notre Dame meet in the final, and it looks like there’s a good shot for that to happen, it will be another great rematch just like Mount Carmel/Southern. Continues to hang in the balance for the quarterback play at North Schuylkill, if he can stop turning the ball over they will be a tough team to beat. Wyomissing and Danville seem to be on a collision course in the bottom half of that bracket. Unless Loyalsock can knock off Danville in the District 4 AAA final.

  570. JCo says:

    As Northampton bludgeons their way through the EPC North with mercy rule win after mercy rule win, I’m hoping the EPC comes to their senses and moves Northampton to the South to create a 10-team South and a 8-team North. Yeah, Liberty’s struggled in the South lately, but they would still be massive favorites in the North, and they have no natural rivalries there. Keep them in the South, go to even-numbered divisions, get rid of mandated crossovers, and let teams play out-of-conference.

    Hopefully common sense wins out here, for the sake of all the athletes.

  571. MCA75 says:

    @Bub nobody from MCA is counting Southern out. Its tough to beat anyone twice in a season and I’m sure Roth will make adjustments for the rematch. I’m also not counting out an 8-0 Troy. Kelley has not been playing but I have seen him on the sidelines as of last week so unless he quit recently, I’m not aware. Still hoping he can make it back for the playoffs. MCA’s O-Line has been playing well all year but it would certainly benefit them to have someone of his size and talent back in the lineup.

    @Jeff H. those are all familiar names on the western side, except for Westinghouse. I don’t recall ever hearing about them in the playoffs. I also forgot Richland may be a part of the eastern bracket since they played Southern a few times the past few years.

  572. Dave says:

    @Bub, completely agree. It would be foolish to count out Southern. Another, that has been flying somewhat under the radar, is 8-0 Troy. They finish the regular season with two strong opponents in Loyalsock and Canton. Will be a good indicator whether they are contenders or pretenders.

  573. Bub says:

    In district 4 AA and eastern state, I would not count out Southern just yet, They will likely get Barnes back for playoffs. Wisloski has been hobbled with hamstring issues, you could see he wasn’t running well in the Mount Carmel game. Roth and his staff are still there too… best around. One more thing, local papers writing about Mount Carmel’s very good offensive line keep mentioning Matt Kelley as a starter, he hasn’t played since the 2nd QTR of week three and in fact I believe he has quit the team.

  574. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – thanks for the reminder, I was, aware Aliquippa is playing their home games this year at Freedom since the PIT is being renovated, will also buy a ticket in advance, I don’t typically do that but will for this game. Yeah, they had them beat last year in the semi’s, I haven’t seen Aliquippa yet in person this year but in the two times I saw McKeesport against BV and Gateway they were very impressive and are going to be a really difficult out in the playoffs.

    @MCA75 – I’m with you, appears MCA and Lakeland are the two favorites in the east to get to the final, although I haven’t’ seen the brackets yet, Richland from D6 in Johnstown is very good and they may be in the eastern bracket.. Several good AA teams in the WPIAL with Steel Valley, Sto-Rox and Beaver Falls the most notable, also have Farrell in D10 and Westinghouse from the Pittsburgh City League, so the western side appears to have a lot more contenders than in the east.

  575. Kevin X says:


    Thanks for the heads up. I’ll assume this has to due with all of the BS going on at Coatesville. They took cash with their game against State College earlier in the season and at the West game the other night. Saw that there was another incident at the school today. Game may be a pass for me this week.

  576. ScottyB says:

    Just a heads up for anyone planning on heading to Kottmeyer Stadium on Friday for the Coatesville @ Downingtown East game.

    They are doing online ticket sales only and will not be accepting cash at the gate.

  577. Wpialguy says:

    @jeff H i agree with your thoughts on McKeesport. I’ve been high on them all year. Remember, they should have beaten Aliquippa last year in the wpial semis. All they had to do was make a 20 yard field goal and they missed. Aliquippa hasn’t shown the offensive firepower to beat them. I think McKeesport should be #1 as well due to their non conference wins.

  578. Wpialguy says:

    @ Jeff H just a heads up that game is being played at Freedom High school due to Aliquippa field renovations. I would also buy tickets before you drive out there for that reason.

  579. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – yep, looking forward to that game and will make the 1+ hour drive to see it. I was at the McKeesport game on Friday and they dominated Gateway, after falling behind 10-0 midway in the second quarter they proceeded to score 41 unanswered points until Gateway tacked on a touchdown in garbage time to make the final score 41-17. McKeesport’s rushing attack is relentless, they have 3 or 4 guys who can go the distance on any play, and had numerous long runs. I’ve been saying for weeks McKeesport is the best team I’ve seen this year, better than any of the 6A and 5A teams. Crazy thing is McKeesport would win 6A or 5A WPIAL title but will have to go through 2 defending state champions to win 4A. I personally think McKeesport should be the #1 seed in 4A playoffs, they’ve played a tougher schedule than either CV or Aliquippa, and their defense has given up a total of 37 points in 8 games with 4 shutouts.

    In one of the craziest finishes you will see in any game Central Catholic stunned Penn Hills 33-28. Trailing 28-27 with 1 second to go in the game, PCC tried a 49 yard field goal that was blocked. While the Penn Hills team ran on the field to celebrate, a PCC lineman picked up the ball and ran 50 yards for a touchdown, because the ball was still behind the line of scrimmage the offense was allowed to advance the ball, and the lineman ran unmolested down the sideline for a winning touchdown, as the fans looked on stunned by what they had just witnessed. This was such a crazy ending it make the national news wire, my buddy’s friend who lives in Chicago saw the replay on a local news broadcast!

  580. MCA75 says:

    @JC if you are gauging the win by the talent of the teams, I agree that NS was the better of the two. I think the win over Southern was bigger because MCA has had to get by them to get out of districts since they moved to AA. The win over SC was the first in 11 years and 14 games, keeps MCAs undefeated season alive and in the driver’s seat for D4 playoffs.

    @wiley1 maybe? Haven’t heard about any other good AA teams in the east besides Lakeland.

  581. Jc says:

    I would think mca win over north schuylkill was much bigger. Southern Columbia is not a good football team. I would not be surprised if southern doesn’t even make it to the district championship game. They r just not a good football team. There qb play is really bad. There lines r really bad.

  582. Wpialguy says:

    2 weeks away from a mammoth matchup in 4A. Aliquippa vs Central Valley. 2 defending state champions that are a few miles apart that are now in the same section and classification. Winner of that will probably get the 1 seed in 4A playoffs.

  583. Wiley1 says:

    The district 4 AA winner won’t make it very far in the state playoffs this year.

  584. MCA75 says:

    Mt. Carmel’s win over Southern on Friday was probably their biggest win since 2011. I thought MCA was in trouble when the 2nd QB went down but was really impressed with the freshman QB. He came in the game in a pressure situation and the MCA offense didn’t miss a beat. Hoping everyone gets healthy and MCA gets back to full strength for the playoffs.

  585. Kc says:

    Kevin x chester and Downingtown west is canceled until Monday. They will play In Wilkes barre at 6:28 am. According to Joey buttafuco.

  586. Buddy says:

    @ Paul White

    Really? I had no idea. They should, I repeat, should, win their last 2 games. Frankly, no team with a 500 record should make the playoffs.

    But hell, I’ll take it! Keeps their record of always making the playoffs intact. The obvious problem is they will draw a high seed (like C’ville),

    and lose in the first round. But it’s something to look forward to. Once again……………………wait ’till next year.

  587. Kevin X says:

    @ Kc


  588. Kevin X says:

    Chester @ Downingtown West

    No comment or next question

  589. Paul White says:

    Well even after losing last night, North Penn has risen in the rankings to no. 16. If they win their last two games, they should get in with a 500 record at probably the 15 spot. All but 3 spots are locked in.

  590. Kc says:

    Kevin x the only guy I know who can continually report wrong info and then want to talk about something else

  591. ScottyB says:


    Coatesville @ Shanahan is back on for 7pm tonight but with no cheerleaders, no bands and only 2 parents per player.

    This is wild.

  592. Kevin X says:

    I’m done……hope they are too……

    “Here we go again. Official for the third time. Coatesville at Bishop Shanahan back on tonight at 7. No band, no cheerleaders and only two parents per player.”

    Can we please talk about Southern and Mt. Carmel or Emmaus and Naz or……..

  593. Jeff H. says:

    Surprised there’s not more chatter on here about the Mt Carmel vs Southern game tonight, can MC finally get over the hump and beat their arch rival. I realize they will almost certainly meet again in the district playoffs, but I think this is a big game as far as Mt. Carmel’s confidence heading into the post season.

    @Kevin X – I realize this is a big step up in competition for Chester but I have a hunch they hang in there with DTW and game is competitive into the 4th quarter. Looks like the strange happenings are continuing with Coatesville, really bizarre in today’s age there’s not more info available and just rumors and innuendos.

    I am going to see Gateway vs. McKeesport, very intriguing game, old rivals that haven’t played as much in recent years since McKeesport dropped to 4A 3 yrs ago, Gateway’s explosive offense against a very stout McKeesport defense. This game doesn’t mean anything as far as playoff standings so will be interesting to see how the coaches handle it, they all whine about these nonconference games so late in the season.

  594. Kevin X says:

    The latest update from Mr. D:

    “Tonight’s Coatesville at Bishop Shanahan football game has been postponed due to online threats. Game will now be played Monday at 3pm at Bishop Shanahan.”

    I better start looking into a “Plan B” for next Friday, as I have C’Ville @ D-Town East penciled in on my calendar.

  595. Kevin X says:

    Per DLN’s Pete DiGiovanni:

    “Archdiocese of Philadelphia has postponed tonight’s Coatesville at Bishop Shanahan football game. Game will be played Sunday at a time to be determined.”

  596. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    Yeah, it seems like you have been on a good run….Keenan was rocking last Friday night! Hope you get another good one tonight.

    Poor Shanahan catching the Red Raiders in a bad mood, should be a runner for the officials.

  597. Kevin X says:

    @ ScottyB

    Yup, pretender or contender night for Chester. Hoping for a good game. I have gotten really spoiled this year with really good, close games. I’d like to keep that train rolling.

    More poop going on at CASD today. Last I heard, their game at Shanahan is still on. Shanahan must be lovin’ this.

  598. MCA75 says:

    Mt. Carmel vs Southern Columbia

    Tonight is MCA’s best chance to beat Southern in a decade.

    Regardless of the outcome of this game, these teams will most likely meet again in 4-5 weeks in districts

  599. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    I think tonight’s matchup with the Whippets will tell us a lot about the Clippers squad that’s been flying under the radar and hasn’t played anyone of DTW caliber yet this season. Beautiful football weather expected tonight at Kottmeyer, definitely a great place to catch a game.

  600. Kevin X says:

    @ Chief

    I agree. The DLN reported on the Ortega and coaches issue last Thursday, then nothing. No follow-ups, updates, nothing. Were they at practice this week?? Their status for tonight’s game?? Statement from the Coatesville school district?? They are public employees after all. I believe Ortega is a teacher in the district. No follow-ups either regarding the “threats” that cancelled the game last week. Any arrests?? Suspects?? The threats themselves?? Nothing from the DA’s Office, Coatesville police, school districts (Downingtown and Coatesville), Ches-Mont league, District One, PIAA, Daily Local News, nothing from anybody on either issue, unless I simply haven’t seen something.

    Oh well, hope all play tonight without incident, especially the Chester @ D-Town West game, as that is where I am headed this evening.

  601. Chief Red Raider says:

    ScottyB: Thanks for the info — what you say sounds much more likely. I could be wrong, but the idea that they would have players from Philly living with the coaches seems so ridiculous — I grew up there — the people would know, the players would know, etc. (I do remember when a star basketball player in the 80’s moved from Avon Grove to live with a family member — but that’s all I’ve ever heard or seen). Many Coatesville players have generational connections to the team and the family names have stayed the same. It’s just weird that it’s so quiet.

  602. ScottyB says:

    @ Chief Red Raider

    I have a buddy that is a District One official and they were told the reason for the coaches suspension stemmed from an inappropriate text sent to players on the team that included some sort of “slur”. As far as he knows they are playing Shanahan tomorrow night but he’s not sure if the coaches were cleared to coach the game.

    That’s the latest “rumor” I heard regarding the situation.

  603. Chief Red Raider says:

    Crickets & Coatesville. I’m trying to figure out why there is absolutely zero information on C’ville (unless I’m missing something). No news on if they are playing Friday, no news if the coaches are coming back and when (and why they were on leave in the first place), no news on why they couldn’t make up the DW game, etc. — It’s like the FBI in front of Congress — no answers. I haven’t even seen any new “rumors” lately. One would think somebody would have a clue.

  604. Kevin X says:

    The cancelled DTW/C’Ville game will have negligible affect on the District One standings. Maybe Pennsbury, Perk Val, or Neshaminy might loose 10 bonus win points, dependent on the outcome. Control what you can control and take care of your own business the next 3 weeks. As far as a forfeit, that was my initial gut reaction, but not so much anymore. These so called credible treats that were at the center of the cancellation supposively came from both schools, and the ultimate decision to cancel the game came from law enforcement opinion. I’m also guessing both schools agreed to the cancellation. Don’t know if this could have been an option, but I would have moved the game to West Chester East Saturday morning around 11a or noon (the societal bottom feeders making the threats would still probably be asleep) and maybe limit fans to the 21 and over crowd (i.e., no students).

  605. New2PA says:

    Haven’t posted for a while, but here are a few WPIAL tidbits.

    Pine-Richland is for real. I’ve been able to watch their last couple games and everything Jeff H says is right on. Palmeiri is a stud at QB. Mostly running but can throw the ball as well. He’s last kid trained by the old staff. They dominated NA and PCC. Spread offense, but mostly spread to run. Also, they moved their TE to OT and that’s helped things alot. They are massive up front. Probably average 6’2.5 250 and not sloppy. They are a contender to win WPIAL for sure.

    Other big news – Dave Fleming, PCC DC left the school and took his on with him. Word is Coach Totten was going to bench him and he wasn’t having it. Will know more if this is true this weekend.

  606. MikeS says:

    @Buddy- Well I tried to let you know early in the season about North Penn, I don’t know if they made an adjustment in personnel, but earlier in the season, they didn’t always have their best players on the field. Part of the problem is Coach Beck, he’s trying to run the same offense and defenses he used back in 2005, especially at the HS level you need to make adjustments to the personnel you have, I’ve heard this for years. This year he’s got a Georgia Recruit WR and a 3rd year Senior starter and those two should be lighting up the scoreboard, they’ve done well, but not as well as I thought they would. Boy how many 1 score games can Pennridge lose, it’s a shame Phil Picciotti transferred to IMG, he would have been a difference maker for them, besides in the two games I’ve seen on TV, he did not get a lot of playing time. Lastly what the heck is going on down at Coatesville, they need to make that game up with D-town West, as that’s big on Conference and District 1 standings, if they cancelled the game & don’t make it up, it needs to be viewed, in my opinion, a forfeit.

  607. D11 Matt says:

    @JC….yeah I saw that too in regards to NLs prep for Notre Dame. As an NL alum, I appreciate that Tout has them ready and adjusts after a lose like they had to NS a couple weeks ago. They got it handed to them so they adjusted and had them prepared vs Notre Dame. Tout is the longest tenured Lehigh valley coach (17th year at NL and has 108 wins). NL is lucky to have him. Hopefully they get his third (and schools 5th) district championship this year.

  608. jc says:

    @3jk it’s pretty bad when northern lehighs coach in his preparation for notre dame green pond mentions that north schuylkill ran the ball down notre dames throat but for some reason would stop running the ball in key situations. The sad part of it all is you don’t need a good passer in high school football to win championships. But you have to know what you do have to win those championships.

  609. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – I was at the BP-USC game and Bethel Park was much more physical at the line of scrimmage and pretty much ran at will on them, their running back Austin Caye got at least 4-5 yards on every carry and they rarely had a negative play, I think he ended up with about 180 yards on 35+ carries. Agree Gateway is back on track and flying under the radar is Pine Richland, ever since they moved Ryan Palmieri to QB and went back to running the spread offense they ran under coach K they have been on a roll, I expect them to win out in the regular season and go into the playoffs as a #2 or #3 seed on a 6 game winning streak.

  610. Buddy says:


    Yep, put a fork in ’em, they’re done. This will be only the second time in the last 24 years they (NP) missed the playoffs.

    They got some offence, but never seen a NP defense this inept. Hell, not sure if I ever seen any team in the SOL with a

    defense this bad. Here’s a rare statement for NP fans…………. “Maybe next year”

  611. Kevin X says:

    Rough weekend for North Penn football. North Penn looses again, to go below .500 and are now on the outside looking in on a D1 6A playoff spot at #17 with 3 games to go. Then yesterday, North Penn grad Matt Ammendola misses a game tying 43 yard field goal in the closing moments in the Arizona Cardinals loss to his hometown Eagles.

  612. Kevin X says:

    Could be an interesting week in the “Ville. Lots of crickets over the weekend. Not getting the warm and fuzzies for a much to do about nothing type of outcome. Suspecting a lot of lawyering up is taking place.

  613. 3JK says:

    @jc Agree with absolutely everything. It’s a shame because they do have the capability to be a great football team but Wally holds them back. The dynamic at quarterback is awful. I’m not sure how the game plan after throwing 4 picks is to come out and sling it. And it lead to 2 interceptions in the first quarter. There’s no variety in the offense what so ever. But they get away with it because their kids are so athletic they can win football games. But with competent coaches on the offensive end they would be unstoppable. But the play calling sucks and Wally’s too stubborn to make any changes. That’s why anytime they play a similar football team they struggle to win because of the offense. It could be a great year at NS but the offense is ultimately going to cost them in the playoffs.

  614. Wpialguy says:

    Bethel Park takes over the #1 spot in WPIAL 5A with a win over Upper St Clair. Bethel was winless 2 years ago with these starters playing as sophomores. Now they are all seniors and look to be very good. Gateway has also turned it around.
    In 1A Bishop Canevin looks to be a head above the rest.
    2A Sto Rox and Steel Valley. Maybe Beaver Falls.

  615. Chief Red Raider says:

    I guess when Ryan finds out his “rumors” are facts he’ll let us all know — he seems like a stand up kind of guy.

  616. Ryan says:

    Rumors are that Coatesville has kids from Philly on the team and are living with the coaches. As well as having videos of locker room issues

  617. Chief Red Raider says:

    It does seem weird that some of C’ville’s coaches would be of administrative leave (if that is even correct), then the threats, then looking like they won’t ever play the game (that is really fishy). But I hope people will not just repeat “rumors”. I have no idea what’s going on, but some of the rumors seem ridiculous to me. Let’s wait and see how it plays out (no pun intended).

  618. jc says:

    I can’t believe what wally hall gets away with at ns. Great teams that can only get district championships and sometimes not even that. What could be a great team this year won’t be. The qb can’t throw, not on target anyway. They came out throwing. When they ran early it was with the qb who can’t run. They ran Weitz for about 60 yards last week, chowansky ran for a big td that was Called back last week and it looks like teams don’t like tackling him, one didn’t play at all in the backfield and the other did on two plays and had 0 carries. The qb throws into double and triple coverage almost exclusively. Flail played qb had a 60 yard run. Your linebackers blitz off end and never get any pressure. Blitz up the middle, do you not ever blitz up the middle. They had over 200 yds in penalties easily tonight. On the two jim thorpe drives they had at least 60 yards in penalties. When up only 24-14 and after either blocking or almost blocking every jim thorpe punt they don’t try and block the punt and it’s a bad snap and they get it off. It’s typical of wally halls teams, take your foot off the pedal. Your starting qb after seeing flail play there tonight is the 3rd best qb on the team. Whoever calls your plays on offense is not capable of being an offensive play caller. Wally has mismanaged players from the time he has become coach. He almost did nothing with the Hummel brothers early at ns. And cost the youngest one any kind of hs football career he could have had. Didn’t start him all year and he has 6 or 7 sacks in the first playoff game they start him. Wally hall is a pee wee coach

  619. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh with a huge win over state ranked AAA Notre Dame GP. Second huge win over a good AAA school (Northwestern Lehigh in week 2). I know i said it before but Northern will be tough against any A team. They rotate on offensive line and defensive line which is rare for an A team. They have also played without arguably their best player (Ramos) who has been out since week 3 and they hope to get him back by end of regular season. He had 6 tds already when he went out after week 3. Looks like it will be Northern vs Tri Valley for dist 11 A title (minersville looked good until last two weeks when they lost to Pen Argyl and Catty who Northern beat already). Northern has played a much tougher AAA schedule than Tri Valley. They have played Northwestern Lehigh, North Schuylkill, and Notre Dame GP. Tri Valley has played none of those three and Northern Lehigh is 2-1 vs those three dist 11 AAA top teams.

  620. Tim says:

    Coatesville game canceled

  621. Jack says:

    The situation with Coach Ortega and two assistants seems weird as well. They were placed on admin leave by the school district. I haven’t any reason why yet though.

  622. Football guy says:

    Other things going on at coatesville than just that….

  623. Jack says:

    Downingtown West v. Coatesville is now canceled due to online threats. Feel bad for the players on both teams, they are not reason the game got canceled. The online threats were from fans.

  624. Ryan says:

    Rumor is that Coatesville got caught cheating, using kids with Philly addresses

  625. Kevin X says:

    DTW @ C’Ville now cancelled:

    “Due to additional information received by local law enforcement authorities, tonight’s Coatesville Area High School and Downingtown West High School football game will be canceled.”

  626. ScottyB says:


    The DTW @ Coatesville game scheduled for tonight has been cancelled.

    Looks like you made the right call @ Kevin X

    Sad times we are living in.

  627. ScottyB says:


    Due to multiple threats received tonight’s game between Coatesville & Downingtown West will be played with NO FANS.

    It’s also Coatesville’s homecoming, feel terrible for the kids.

  628. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Should give you a thanks for your previous post about the PAC schools doing the on-line ticketing. Without it, it would have been interesting to see our reaction tonight at the S-F/PV game as we find out there is no the ticket booth to be found and are then told our United States legal tender that we were planning on using to gain admission to the game is basically the same as monopoly money tonight.

    Funny thing is, if one of the MO’s in all of this is to go cashless for whatever reason, why don’t they accept credit cards at the gate and concession stands?? I’ve been using one of my Visa cards at businesses/merchants where I just wave it over some gadget, there’s a beep, and viola!!!, I’m good to go!!! No touching anything, no signature, couldn’t be easier.

  629. Kevin X says:

    Very weird, strange, bizarre, etc….

    From PA Prep LIve:

    “With the biggest game of the year thus far this season, Coatesville may be without head coach Matt Ortega and multiple assistant coaches against Downingtown West, Friday.
    According to sources familiar with the situation, Ortega and assistant coaches Steve Brazzle and Will Keylor have been away from the team this week. If, or when, they return is still unknown.
    Reasoning for their absence is presently undisclosed after calls, emails and texts to Ortega, Coatesville Director of Athletics Brian Chenger and Coatesville High School Principal Michele Snyder were not returned.
    Undefeated Coatesville (6-0) hosts Downingtown West (5-1), Friday at 7 p.m., for Homecoming.”

  630. Irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X….your suggestion to at least have the cash at the gate option makes sense. If people still want to buy online fine but give the option for others to pay at the gate. For a regular season football or basketball game that isnt too much to ask.

  631. Buddy Hensler says:


    For a $5 purchase. Asinine.

  632. mcd 65 says:

    Must get high school game tickets on line ??? Well how ridiculous can things get/ looks like if I ever go to one of those games i will be watching from outside the fence. What a joke !!!!

  633. Kevin X says:

    Oh boy, maybe I’m a hypocrite. Or maybe I’m one of those who caved as PB would say. For the first time, I pulled the trigger yesterday, while firmly holding my nose, and bought 2 tix on-line for tomorrow’s Spring-Ford Perk Valley game. There, I said it. There, I did it. Don’t like it one iota. Talked myself into it with a few reasons. One, I at least wanted to try the procedure at least once to be able to talk about it honestly. Second, this may be the one reason in the future where I’d do it again, that is being a game that I really want to go to (especially if I have to travel a good distance) and there may be good chance that said game will be sold out, as the last thing I want is to walk up to the ticket booth and the “sold out” sign is thrown in my face. Third, I had this game circled (along with the DTW/C’Ville) on my 2022 roadmap of games. I’ll see DTW next week against Chester and C’Ville in 2 weeks against DTE.

    A few observations. First the system for this game did not require you to sign up for anything, create a password or user name or the like, or give up your first born. I can’t speak for other ticketing sites. They did require a telephone number, (I gave a fake number, Jenny, I’ve got your number :)), but a legit e-mail address is required, as that is how I got my tix, via e-mail. Ordered on my laptop, I was able to print out at home, so phone was not even needed. I did have to pay via credit card (would have been nice for a PayPal or other payment option). Overall a very simple, easy, straight forward procedure. They did whack you for service charges, which was an additional $1.50 or so total.

    Am I convert?? F no. This on-line only ticketing requirement is asinine, a disgrace, and a complete joke. I have no problem with buying tickets on-line in advance (as an option) as long as there is still a day of game cash option at the gate. In fact, I would encourage that. I do unfortunately see this as something that will be gaining traction and be more widespread in the future. Most will adapt, cave, or it’s already not an issue. I do not see it as having an affect on attendance, especially going forward. On-line streaming probably has more. I see this as nothing more than another money grab, but also an accounting issue, and maybe a security issue (figure a big game, $5 a person, 5,000 people at game, that’s 25k in cash exposed in these lawless times that we’re currently living in).

  634. 4th & Forever says:

    Thanks, Scotty. Being 5A somewhat explains why they’re flying under the radar. I’m not thrilled about seeing a team beat someone 80-0 (was that really necessary?) but I like seeing new blood making some noise, especially a place that could use more good news.

  635. phillyboy says:

    My lands, to order HS football tickets online it’s now necessary to create an account with a username and password? That’s even worse than I thought. LOL, goodness gracious they are taking themselves way too seriously. Did they also require 2 in-person interviews, 3 character witnesses (other than family and friends), an 800 or better credit score, and a 500 word essay explaining why you might be a good candidate to attend a local game? Then with the committee’s approval you’ll be set after the obligatory 90 day waiting period. In all seriousness I’ll never attend another game in person if that becomes standard operating procedure, the phillyboy golden age will have been relegated to PIAA lore. Problem is, there’s too many people who will cave like nobody’s business thereby enabling it to continue unabated. Oh well, it is what it is.

  636. ScottyB says:

    @ 4th & Forever

    Chester is actually a 5A school for football and yes they are having a great season. I definitely think they’ll be a tough out come playoff time. I believe they have a newer coaching staff and have really done a good job of revitalizing the program.

  637. 4th & Forever says:

    Anyone know anything about Chester? I get that they’re not know for football and their schedule is weak, but as an outsider who’s doing nothing more than looking at scores, they’re taking care of business every week. The strength of the basketball program tells me there are athletes at the school and it seems like a team that could make it to the 6A D1 semifinals with a little luck.

  638. Buddy says:

    Like I said, they will lose fans. I have a smart phone and can print tickets, but I think it’s ridiculous.

    As long as NP doesn’t do it, and I don’t believe any SOL team is doing it, I’m fine.

  639. Irish1 says:

    Sorry for the duplicate posts. @Buddy I havent been to enough games involving other leagues this year so not sure if they are taking cash other then the NP-Lasalle game which had a large crowd and they took cash that night. The Pac 10 is a little full of themselves with making something as simple as going to a high school game handing over the 5 dollars and watching the game for a few hrs harder then it should be. Making people go online create an account and use a credit card for a 5 dollar ticket is crazy.

  640. D11 Matt says:


    I think most schools or leagues will eventually all be online sales. I know PIAA does online only for state playoff games now. I think even with covid not being an issue anymore schools find online sales more convenient. It does limit sales with older fans who don’t have smart phones or a way to print tickets. StubHub and pro events are mostly online/digital now as well.

  641. Buddy says:

    Anyone know the reason the PAC10 is selling tickets online only? This will cost them, attendance-wise, I’m sure.

    A friend and I (both seniors) were thinking about going, but the online ticket sales changed our minds (amongst other things).

    If this has anything to do with covid, someone should tell the PAC10 ……………it’s over.

  642. Irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X, that sounds like par for the course. Not sure who most of the Pac 10 schools think they are. PV must think they are the second coming of the old CB West teams with all the marching orders they give out,for someone just trying to go see a high school football game on a Friday night. In time they might only have parents and students going to games if the average fan says the heck with all this and thats coming from someone who has been going to high school games since the 70s.

  643. Irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X, that sounds about right, not quite sure who these pac 10 schools think they are. Perk Valley must think they are the second coming of the old CB west with all the marching orders they give to anyone who just wants to go see a high school football game on a Friday night. Might get to the point where the only people going are parents or students, after a while the average fan who may not have any connection to a school might just say the heck with it,and this is someone who has been going to high school games since the 70’s.

  644. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Yep, Friday’s Spring-Ford @ Perk Valley game is on-line tix sales only. No cash at the gate. Called PV today and confirmed. Also, this was buried on their ticketing portion of the schools website:

    “Join us Oct. 7th 2022 at 7:00pm, at Thomas J. Keenan Stadium for a varsity football game between Spring-Ford and Perkiomen Valley. No outside food will be permitted inside the stadium. Unopened water bottles only. No re-entry allowed. Doors open at 6:00pm and close at the end of the 3rd quarter. Tickets will not be sold at the gate. Tickets are nonrefundable.”

  645. ScottyB says:

    Looking quickly at the schedule for this week in district one, these games standout…

    Downingtown West @ Coatesville – Should be a good one at Coatesville Memorial Stadium in what will be the first of a few pivotal match ups the next few weeks in the Ches-Mont National Division.

    Spring-Ford @ Perkiomen Valley – If you have never been to Keenan stadium for this intense rivalry, you are really missing out. The winner of this game usually ends up winning the PAC Liberty Division and in the 38 all-time meetings the teams are deadlocked 19-19.

    Any other games I am missing?

  646. Jc says:

    @NE PA . Not to mention the qb on a few plays ran right into the pressure he had from 1 lineman and ran directly into that pressure. Didn’t step up in the pocket ran right into the guy. I honestly believe he is the slowest guy on the field. There is no point in running any pass to the sidelines on a deep ball because there is 0% chance the pass is completed. Chowansky, Tinari, Weitz, Carabello, flail with the freshman handing it optioning to those guys and they would be without a loss. Its not against the law to blitz a linebacker up the middle passed the nose guard.

  647. Jeff H. says:

    @NW PA – agree that was a very impressive win by ECP, I figured they would finally beat McDowell this year, but didn’t expect them to totally dominate like that. I have seen most of the WPIAL 5A top contenders in person, and I think ECP is on a higher level than any of them, with the possible exception of Gateway if they get their act together like they finally showed on Friday in crushing previously undefeated Hempfield 60-7, it was 53-0 at half, I was at the Upper St Clair vs. Mt Lebanon game and was just totally blown away by that score, no one saw that coming. Speaking of Upper St Clair they are a very solid, well coached team, good size on their lines, experienced senior QB, decent receivers, good running game, and sound defense, but with that being said I don’t think they have the overall talent or athleticism to beat Erie Prep. Upper St Clair plays Bethel Park this week and Gateway plays Penn Trafford in 2 games that will have big implications for playoff seeding, my dilemma is I have to decide which one to go see!

  648. NE PA says:

    @Jc NS is a mess on offense. No reason why they shouldn’t play the freshman and see what he can do at this point. He’s probably better than the starter anyway and it will develop him into a really good player when he’s a junior and senior. Against Notre Dame, four interceptions and they were really horrific ones, a couple strip sacks, probably five fumbled snaps, has no chance to complete a deep ball, and can’t run. That’s the play at quarterback you’re getting when you play a good team. Against the bottom feeders in the district you don’t really see it because you’re just three times as good as them, but against comparable teams you lose. Hence, Mount Carmel and Notre Dame. He can’t get Flail the ball at all. Teams are doubling him every play and pretty much taking him out of the game anyway. I think they should get Flail in the backfield and just keep him involved more. Changes on the O-line also have to be made but for some reason they won’t make them. Their D-line is stacked and they would be much better off just having those guys go both ways and rotating the other guys in when they need a break. If the changes aren’t made or fixed, it’s going to be a disappointing season in Fountain Springs.

  649. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    That’s a great idea. Saturday afternoon are much more doable for me than Friday nights. Although I’m going to do anything I can to make it to Coatesville this Friday for the Downingtown West game. I think this will be the first true test for both squads, not with the Central Dauphin game earlier this season and I believe a close loss to Perk Valley for West. I know that for Dtown East, they have a bruising running attack, so Cville will be tested there, but I don’t know much about West aside from their record and scores.

    But going back to Malvern Prep, I’m going to circle 10/22 on the calendar, to see them play the Haverford School. If I don’t make that there are two more home games to end the season and I’d love to see them play Episcopal on 11/5. Dates circled.

  650. Jack says:

    I follow football across the state, but mainly follow district 1

    A player who I feel is not getting a lot recognition this year is Bo Horvath, running back for Downingtown East. Kid has looked incredible this season. He is committed to play lacrosse at Lehigh, but I would imagine some D1 schools might look at him for football. He has ran for 1200 yards and 16 touchdowns this season already. The Cougars look dangerous on offense, especially with the return of QB Jenkins, who missed some games due to injury. Only loss was a one point heartbreaker to State College, who is considered a top 10 in 6A. They also did not have Jenkins that game either and were running Horvath out of the wildcat in the second half. Though the pass defense has looked shaky all season. But as usual the Cougars have been running the ball really well all season and also have a really solid front 7 on defense.

    Downingtown West has also had a great bounce back thus far, after a disappointing season last year. 5-1 right now, with one close loss to Perk Valley (another good team), and there starting QB Henicle was hurt. Offensively QB Henicle has played well and the team is loaded with other offensive skills like Kucera, Hangey, and Mulville. Also the upfront on the O line they have two D1 guys in Howard and Young. Downingtown West vs Coatesville next week at Coatesville Memorial Stadium is shaping up to be a great matchup.

    Coatesville as usual has been very good. One of only two undefeated teams left in D1 6A(along with Garnet Valley). Though not as dominant as some of past teams (like the 2012, 2017, 2018 teams). Ortega’s team is still one of the best teams in District 1. QB Susi has looked really good, though has not been used as much in the last two games. They have blown out the last teams they played. As usual, should be a threat for the title when playoffs roll around. The offense is still very explosive, you do not want to get down against Coatesville ever, because you will have a really hard time catching up.

    D1 6A looks wide open as ever. No clear number 1 yet. I thought for sure it was CB East until last night against Pennsbury and the week before that when they struggled against Pennridge, but still they look like a threat for the D1 title. Pennsbury has had a great turnaround this season, it is nice to see the program back to its old ways. The SOL national title looks like it is up for grabs now. No other 6A SOL teams have really blown me away, Souderton is having a pretty good year though, Upper Dublin is currently my 5A D1 favorites, and Neshaminy is bouncing back after a couple of down years.

    Surprised about North Penn this year. Thought they would be 6-0 or 5-1 right now, but right now they are sit at 3-3, and there is a decent chance they do not make playoffs. With WR Haynes (who is probably the most talented player in D1 6A this year) transferring in from and Zeltt returning at QB, I thought they were the favorites in the SOL National, but the defense has looked shaky all season. Have two big games coming up against CB East and Pennsbury. Both games I think are winnable for them.

    In the pioneer league, Perk Valley and Spring Ford have looked good, though I still do not know if they are D1 title contenders. Perk Valley has the win over Downingtown West, but West was without their QB and kind of gave that game away. The Perk Valley defense has looked great, and they fought with a loaded Roman Catholic team. The matchup between these two, should be a great game as always.

    Garnet Valley is good as usual and will probably finish undefeated in the regular season and be the one seed in the playoffs. The defense seems solid, but the offense is not nearly as explosive as last years, I am still mixed on if they are a district contender or not, just because the Central League seems down this year. The only team that seems like they could compete with them in the central league appears to be Strath Haven (5A), but they are not scheduled to play each other this year. I know Conestoga is 5-1, and is the current 6 seed in the 6A rankings, but I do not think they can beat Garnet. The district 1 website has them as the one seed though.

    Unable to really rank teams of D1 6A right now just. Will be able to have a better look in the coming weeks as there are many big conference games coming up and we will see who are the true contenders. Though it looks like we are in for some good late regular season and playoff games in district 1 6A this year.

  651. Jc says:

    North schuylkill is a mess. Your starting qb can’t run or throw. Play the freshman. He can at least run. Weitz didn’t run all year. They ran him. Put the young freshman in. Put a full house backfield in. Run it right down there throats. They wouldn’t and didn’t want to tackle chowansky. Tinari was gashing them. When it mattered and they drove down field they either passed the ball or fumbled the snap. Your Play calling and qb cost you the game. 3 long td passes after ns should have scored and a kick return after u did score. It’s the first time I watched a team that clearly should have won lost on undisciplined, lack of coaching and bad qb Play lost u a game. Wally let them run the hurry up offense against him. See how good it works walter

  652. NW PA says:

    Erie Cathedral absolutely crushed a good McDowell team 41-0 last night. Cathedral executed their game plan on both sides of the ball perfectly. Mcdowell was completely out coached, they’ve done the same thing on both sides of the ball the last few years and Cathedral finally made the adjustments. A couple of their starters got injured unfortunately, but something tells me their depth can handle it. If Cathedral starts hitting their stride they could make a deep playoff run in 5A. At this point I’m not sure Mcdowell gets by State College. Only time will tell.

  653. Jeff H. says:

    Lots of interesting games tonight in the WPIAL. In 6A PCC takes on Canon Mac in a must win game, PCC is already 0-2 in the conference with this game and Seneca Valley the last 2 conference opponents left, if PCC loses this game there’s a distinct possibility they don’t make the 4 team playoff. I am going to see Upper St Clair play Mt Lebo, this is one of the bigger rivalries in the WPIAL, Lebo has owned them in recent years but I like USC to keep it rolling tonight, at the midway point of the season USC and Hempfield are the only 2 unbeaten teams in 5A Another big rivalry game tonight is NA vs Pine Richland, they haven’t played since 2019 when PR was still in 6A and beat them twice that season handily.

    In 5A Hempfield has another huge game hosting Gateway, if Hempfield wins they will be in the drivers seat for the conference title and high playoff seed, if Gateway loses they are in jeopardy of not making the 5A playoffs, and will likely set up an elimination game next week against Penn Trafford, before the season everyone assumed PT and Gateway were locks to make the playoffs. An interesting nonconference game is Penn Hills at Bethel Park, with Penn Hills looking to get back on track after last weeks collapse against previously winless North Hills, where they raced out to a 20-0 lead only to lose 27-26 in OT, Bethel has been solid with their only loss coming to PCC.

  654. MCA75 says:

    @3HJ this was the first I’ve heard he’s out for any length of time. That’s a shame. Another 2 way starter was also injured, haven’t heard anything about his status either but hoping he’s ok. The backup qb is a soph I believe. I thought he did a nice job against Bloomsburg.

  655. Bub says:

    Matt Balichick will QB Mount Carmel. Soph. played most of the Bloomsburg game when Spears got hurt early in 1st Qtr. Has 2 games to get ready for Southern. He has a great arm, he’s tough, can run hard, Not as quick as Spears and might not be as accurate as a thrower but he’s definately a baller and IMO they will be more than fine.

  656. 3HJ says:

    Does anyone know anything about the new quarterback that will be replacing Spears in the Mount Carmel offense? That’s a very tough loss for a team that looked destined to reach a state final this year. Hopefully they can bounce back. The Southern game just got a lot more interesting

  657. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    I was sort of kind of in your shoes Friday night. That RC/MP game was a good game, competitive, but somewhat sloppy and at times, well boring. 10-0 MP. RC had their chances. MP’s only TD came on a whopping 4 yard drive. I was waiting all night for RC’s Tyseer Denmark to break one. They had him all over the field on offense. He is fun to watch.

    @ Jay

    If your schedule permits a Saturday afternoon game, I’d suggest a ride down Rte. 30 and take in your initial Malvern Prep game. They host 2 Inter-Ac games against The Haverford School and EA in late October and early November. All 3 of these teams are right now undefeated. It is a different atmosphere at these Inter-Ac games.

    @ Phillyboy

    Welcome back!!!

  658. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – you nailed it, 2A, 4A, 5A and 6A are pretty wide open, BV big favorite in 3A, think Canevin will win 1A, although OLSH has looked pretty solid. Also agree the WPIAL 6A winner could lose to either McDowell or State College in the quarterfinals before they even get to the D3 winner in the semi-finals. I was not impressed with either NA or PCC on Friday and think McKeesport would beat either one of them, they are the best team I’ve seen in person so far this year (better than Gateway and those 2). Very surprised North Hills beat Penn Hills, I saw Woodland Hills beat them 14-0 the previous week and they didn’t do much on offense in that game.

  659. Margaret says:

    For the life of me this schuylkill/colonial league thing I don’t understand. North schuylkill should just leave the schuylkill league and join the heartland conference. Basically this is the 2nd year of the league. It’s now the 2nd year they r traveling to notre dame. Never should a team have to Play anyone 2 years in a row on there home field, let alone an hour and 45 minute drive. It’s ridiculous. North schuylkill already has mount carmel as it’s natural rival, shamokin, Danville, loyalsock, mountoursville, central Columbia they have histories with, they share a border with southern Columbia, enough already.

  660. JCB says:

    NS’s defense looked very solid last week against Northern Lehigh. Will be interesting to see against a team like Green Pond if they could defend a team that could sling it.

  661. Irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X, I know its online only at Spring-Ford, Perk Valley and OJ Roberts, they take cash at PJP, no sure about some of the other Pac 10 schools. I know PJP takes cash. @ Buddy, dont think my responce was juvenile at all and no I have never been a bully at any time in my life. I do get tired of some of the comments made on here in regard to catholic schools that have an anti catholic tone in general to them.

  662. Jay says:

    @Joneses @KevinX @Foleman

    Thanks all for chipping in on the Malvern Prep question. I’ve never done my own due diligence on the matter, and partially because I know the contributors here will know much more than I do. Still a shame, I’d love to see the Preps go at it.

    Now that I think about it, I’ve never even seen Malvern Prep play. When I can make a game I go down the hill to Coatesville or just a few miles down 30 to Kottmeyer Stadium to watch whichever Dtown team is playing. I used to travel a lot more. Like I said in my last comment I hope to change my schedule soon so I can have the excitement of picking a game to see each week again.

  663. Margaret says:

    Chowansky came back this week for ns not flail. He played about half the game and was limited on offense. He is an all state linebacker and only a junior.

  664. Colin says:


    I hear what you saying about the no cash thing. My school is a PAC10 squad(Upper Perk) and are still doing cash entry. Went to the Boyertown game and it was on line only IIRC. Its kinda frustrating when something as simple as plopping down 5 bucks is an issue nowadays. The funny part is they ask you to pay on line to enter but you can still pay cash at the food stands. Its not just HS football doing it either. Im involved in the youth baseball circuit and many snacks stands are now card only. Wont accept cash. In the end its kinda silly but what can you do.

  665. Wpialguy says:

    Looks like Jeff H beat me by 15 minutes… but we pretty much said the same thing. What will stink for Hempfield and their dream season is that the 5A game is not being played at Heinz Field! Hempfield would have brought probably 10,000 to that game.

    2A, 4A, 5A, and 6A are all up for grabs in wpial. Ultimately in 3A Belle Vernon should run away with it. In 1A i don’t see anyone beating Bishop Canevin but you never know!

    6A.. also do not see any state contenders. I could even see McDowell beat the wpial team in the quarterfinals.

  666. Wpialguy says:

    Things are getting absolutely bonkers here in the west… in a good way.
    6A— central Catholic is now 0-2 with losses to mt Lebanon and North Allegheny. Top 4 teams make playoffs. They’re currently in 5th. Seneca valley Canon mac, and mount Lebo all 1-1… can make the argument right now that all 5 teams could win the championship on any given day.

    5A—Hempfield beat defending state champ Penn trafford. Hempfield 5-0 for first time since like 1971.
    North Hills beats preseason favorite Penn Hills. Upper st Clair wins a big game vs peters. And have i mentioned only 8 teams make playoffs?

    4A— once again very interesting. Aliquippa beats West Allegheny 19-16. Quips win a close one but show that they won’t run away with 4A. Belle Vernon (3A) beat Thomas Jefferson. Central Valley won another mercy rule game.

    3A- Belle Vernon maneuvers through very tough non conference schedule at 2-2 but the odds on favorite to win.

    2A- Sto Rox, Steel Valley, Beaver Falls, Washington… all look very strong.

    1A- Bishop Canevin and olsh look very good. But don’t be surprised if a team like Laurel or South Side Beaver can surprise people.

    Honestly looks to be some of the most competitive football seasons in recent memory playing out. The playoffs should be a blast. Usually you can tell who’s going to win early on.. there are so many good teams. Every week becomes very interesting.

  667. Jeff H. says:

    I am having the opposite luck of Kevin X, this year, I keep picking the wrong game to go to each week! I went to the NA-PCC game tonight won by NA 7-3, to say it was uneventful would be an understatement. 6A is WAY down in the WPIAL this year and whoever emerges is not a contender on the state level, I would be very surprised if the WPIAL winner makes the state final, looks to me like it will be the D3 winner vs. SJP, could Cumberland Valley play for the title on their home field?

    In 5A Hempfield continued their dream season by beating Penn Trafford 28-17 before a SRO crowd, next up is Gateway, appears Hempfield will be a big factor in the WPIAL playoffs. Upper St Clair beat Peters 17-10, right now those 2 teams are playing the best in 5A in the WPIAL

    In 4A in the game I should have gone to see and would have if it wasn’t an hour drive Aliquippa edged West Alleghany 19-16, while in a nonconference game 3A Belle Vernon got back on track and beat 4A TJ 21-7 on TJ’s home field. Now that Belle Vernon is done with their brutal nonconference schedule expect them to cruise through their conference in 3A, I don’t think there’s anyone in 3A in the WPIAL that will beat them.

  668. D11 Matt says:

    What was a competitive first half (10-0) halftime. NS pulled away. They are a very good AAA team. Northern hung tough defensively in first half but NS too much. I expect NS to win dist 11 AAA again. Northern still is a very good A team that didn’t play well for first time this year and I expect them to bounce back big against Salisbury next week and then against a good Notre Dame GP in two weeks. They will be a tough A team once playoffs start. Of course flail had to be back this week for NS haha.

  669. Margaret says:

    Have a drink on me irish1

  670. mcd 65 says:

    I watched the Wood/Northeast game which Wood won 14-6. Coach Armstrong has done a very commendable job since taking helm mid-summer without much support.It has been noted before that Wood lost 9 good players to transfer as well as most of their coaching staff. Northeast has a solid team with 3 of those ex Wood players starting. The Wood team has a Soph. QB who did a good job. They are low on numbers with many players now going both ways,but they still have some studs .The coach has switched several players positions to account for the transfer losses and instilled a disciplined approach that I found impressive. I dont know if they will win many games ,but Armstrong has done a great jod pulling thing together thus far.

  671. Jeff H. says:

    @Dazed and Confused – I was referring to Wood being nowhere near the level they were at in 2016-2017 when they steamrolled everyone in the state playoffs en route to back to back 5A titles. I didn’t say they aren’t competitive, just not at the level of domination they were 5-6 years ago. My point is this annual public vs. private whining and complaining is almost solely due to SJP now that Wood is not as dominant as in the past.

    @Margaret – maybe you need a geography lesson, I didn’t say anything about the PCL or Bishop McDevitt and mentioned that west of Harrisburg there are 2 private powerhouse schools, Erie Prep and Pittsburgh CC, pretty tough to have a playoff when in the whole western half of the state you have 2 teams.

  672. phillyboy says:

    Irish1 — Totally feel you man, completely ridiculous how it’s increasongly becoming amazingly annoying to do something incredibly simple. For crying out loud, can I just attend a HS football game, throw you a few bucks and call it good. They pulled that stunt at the Prep/GV eastern final last year. Ended up watching for free from outside the fence. I won’t deal with that BS, I’ll show them, no more phillyboy sightings until they come to their senses. The coof nonsense might have been the reason originally but now they can’t let it go, it’s some sort of bizarre power trip of faux sophistication. I mean what else could it be? It’s illogical, total gobbledygook. Anyway why don’t I tell you how I really feel?! Lol

  673. Buddy says:

    @ irish

    Had that happen at a D1 softball final this past year. And yea, it involved a pac10 school ( Springford). Because I’m technology challenged, they finally let me in free.

    After trying to bring up an app on my phone, to no success. Is all this necessary? Is cash now passe?

    BTW, that response to Margaret was juvenile. Were you the middle school bully?

  674. Kevin X says:

    @ Irish1

    Short answer no. I’ve been to several games so far this season, and all were either $5 cash at the gate, or in the case at Malvern Prep (which will be the case again tonight), no charge. These were all District One games, except for one D12/PCL game. A game a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon at PJPII, a PAC team (but playing Berks Cath), they were charging a flat $10 cash for parking (no gate).

    So are you saying PAC league games, they are not accepting cash at the gate?? I have S-F @ PV on my radar in two weeks. If that’s the case (no cash), a “Plan B” game will be in effect.

  675. Wpialguy says:

    Latrobe’s top running back transferred back to their school from PCC. He had like 6 yards last year for central Catholic. This year he’s almost leading the wpial in rushing. Sometimes it hurts these kids going to Catholic schools and sitting behind kids.

  676. Irish1 says:

    @ margaret, get over it already, work on your grammer

  677. Irish1 says:

    Has anyone else had to deal with not being able to pay cash for admission at any games this year? Seems like all the Pac 10 schools are forcing people to go online and sign up from there and then having to use a credit or debit card to pay 5 dollars for a ticket to a high school game. Is this still in regard to covid or is there something else going on with this? Been going to high school football games for years, this just seems ridiculous. Is it asking too much to just be able to walk up pay the 5 dollars and go watch the game.

  678. Dazed and Confused… says:

    Jeff…to say that Wood has fallen off is quite a stretch. Obviously there’s been plenty of changeover. However, having to play up to 6A while being a 4A school is tough, let alone in the PCL having to go through Prep twice last year. Not only that, Wood almost knocked Prep out of districts last year. Yes, they’ve been jeckly and hyde, but now being 5A, theyre still a contender. Pump the breaks.

  679. Margaret says:

    I guess imhotep charter, archbishop wood, Neumann goretti, Erie cathedral prep, bishop mcdevitt, Pittsburgh central catholic don’t count lol. The problem with the Philly catholic and private schools every couple years they decide, hey we r gonna stack this school and try to win a state title but alot of times they still don’t win it, it still shouldn’t be able to be done. Conwell Eagan has tries, west catholic was working hard to steal titles, Neumann goretti has tried very hard to match its stolen basketball titles. Also factor in the football players who transfer to these schools that were very good at there proper schools who r not superstars at there non traditional school. That’s a big hit to the proper school. I can give an example of a wr from shamokin pa. Who transferred to archbishop wood and did nothing there last year.

  680. irish1 says:

    @ Buddy, there is really only 2 or 3 catholic schools that have any major advantage, SJ Prep, Wood for a stretch, Lasalle is good most years but isnt going to dominate. Its mainly SJ Prep. Most of the other catholic league schools used the same model as they always have drawing students from their local feeder schools. The worst decision Lansdale catholic ever made was joining the Catholic league. PJP and Shanahan both have good programs but they arent making yearly treks to Hershey. Take SJ Prep out of the picture and I would think most of the never ending moaning and groaning would stop, in football at least. Maybe North Penn’s program is just a bit overrated. Its been very good to great at times over the years. They usually have decent skill players but for a school that big they dont have great size up front the times I have seen them, which shows up every time they play Lasalle

  681. Buddy says:

    Never said I was worried about North Penn beating the privates this year, or any year. Just pointing out the huge advantage privates have over publics.

    I suspect NP will have another L (or two). That collapse against UD did their defense in, it was obvious against Neshaminy. But worried………….not really.

  682. Irish1 says:

    @ buddy, seems to me North Penn should be more worried about being able to beat the other public schools before worrying about “the recruiters” as you like to call the catholic schools. Needed OT to beat a mediocre Neshaminy team. Lost to U Dublin,who has a very good team, NP several other potential L’s on their schedule.Lasalle who handled N Penn by two scores hasnt won since.

  683. FrankG says:

    @ Foleman and the Joneses

    SJP and Malvern Prep last played each other in 2015. Between about 2007 and 2010 they played each other on Thanksgiving, usually at Villanova Stadium, and then they played games earlier in the season in 2013, 2014, and 2015. I don’t know why they haven’t played each other in seven years. The freshman teams have continued to play each other pretty much every year. Last week the SJP freshmen–which I’ve been told is a very strong class–beat Malvern’s freshmen 35-14. Of course, one should never read too much into the score of a freshman game. Last year, Malvern won by a point.

    I think it would be great if the two schools could play every year, preferably at Villanova.

  684. Wpialguy says:

    As of now, in the wpial I’d say 5/6 classes are up for grabs and could be very competitive. And the interesting one in 3A is Belle Vernon is 1-3, but should be the odds on favorite to win the whole thing. They e had a very difficult non section schedule to begin year. 6A could honestly be 5 different teams any day of the week. Although i still think PCC will win it. 5A is absolutely crazy. There’s probably 10 teams that could win the wpial title, but only 8 make the playoffs. Should be a crazy finish to the year

  685. Jeff H. says:

    This story might not interest many of you, but those of you that are diehard high school football fans might appreciate it, I know I enjoy hearing about upstart teams in other parts of the state. Hempfield HS located in Greensburg has been an afterthought in the WPIAL for decades and rarely have a winning record, let alone make the district playoffs, they got beaten up in 6A the last several years but their enrollment dropped to 5A for this cycle. This year they are off to a 4-0 start for the first time since 1971 and have the 2 biggest home games in school history coming up the next 2 weeks, with defending state champion Penn Trafford this week and preseason WPIAL #1 and perennial contender Gateway coming up next week. Both of these are conference games and If they can manage to win one of them they would be in a pretty good position to make the playoffs, win both and they turn WPIAL 5A on its head and totally scramble the playoff seedings, and in the process maybe knock either PT or Gateway out of the playoffs altogether which would have been unthinkable before the season started.

    Hempfield HS field is more known for hosting PIAA playoff games than big games for the home team, I’ve seen a number of state playoff games there over the years, including the epic ECP 27-23 last minute win over Woodland Hills in the 1999 state semi-finals in a game that featured several future NFL players, and PR and Phil Jurkovec thrashing State College 49-28 on their way to the state title in 2017, that game was tied 14-14 at half before PR scored on their fist 5 possessions of the 2nd half. For the next 2 weeks though it will host 2 of the biggest games in the WPIAL so far this season.

  686. The Joneses says:

    @Jeff H. Well said on both points. Imhotep has grossly underachieved.

  687. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – totally agree with you on the public vs. private debate, have not yet heard of a workable solution, just a lot of complaining, there are not enough private school powerhouse programs in this state to make separate playoffs viable, in the entire western half of the state you have 2 schools, PCC and ECP. This annual argument is primarily about SJP, Wood was part of that conversation several years ago, but with the way their program has fallen off the last few years they are not currently part of the equation, so all this public/private debate really boils down to SJP.

    @Buddy – no doubt who is going to win 5A? Everybody said the same thing last year, then Penn Trafford shocked the state by upsetting Imhotep. For all their accolades and talent Imhotep has won exactly 1 state title, so until they prove to me they can win another one I won’t be assuming anything in 5A, and with the way Roman has looked there is no guarantee Imhotep even gets out of their district this year.

  688. The Joneses says:

    @Foleman I would be surprised if Malvern and Prep didn’t play each other next year. Malvern use to play SJP and LaSalle during the season. It changed maybe 2019. You are right the Inter-ac does allow 5th year seniors and they allow 8th graders to play High School ball, which messes with PIAA eligibility rules.

    @Buddy– winning recruits by itself. I was at the PennState game two weeks ago and just watched some private and public school recruits quiz the SJP kids about the Prep, should they come to Prep, we will never win a state chip, is it truly harder classes etc. Anyone under the pretense that public school Coaches don’t call kids and say come here and not just the local school. I know because I got two calls. One from the local high school and one from another public high school in another area. I did share that before.

    @Kevin X is correct and based on how long it has been that way, football shall not change in our lifetime.

  689. Foleman says:

    The Inter-Ac likes things the way they are and don’t want any Governing Body-(PIAA) telling them how to run things. In addition, a major sticking point is the use of 5th year Sr’s in the Inter-Ac which wouldn’t flush in the PIAA, I know that Malvern Prep doesn’t take Sr transfers, you have to repeat your JR year if you are transferring in which is essentially redshirting. Would like to see MP and St Joe Prep go at it again as MP is one school that can compete with Prep during the regular season.

  690. Buddy says:

    Why not look at states that have the solution? Must we invent our own? Does anyone doubt who the state champ will be in 6A? 5A too?

    That scenario gets old quick. I’m being a bit hypocritical here. I actually like, sometimes, the current set up. My team has beaten LaSalle,

    also beaten SJP a few times (very few times). Gives one hope. But the disparity has gotten greater the past several years.

  691. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Do you (or anyone else) have a realist, workable, fair recommendation/solution for an implementation of a separate public and private football playoff format?? A certain state that PA could/should emulate?? I’d be persuaded to jump on board if I would ever hear of one. I have not.

    Do you follow high school basketball (boys and/or girls) in PA?? The public/private/non boundary situation there is many many times the issue there than it is in football. And a solution should be much more workable. Let’s deal with hoops first, and if the PIAA can get that right, maybe then we can move on to football.

  692. Buddy says:


    In many states, I dare say most, the privates have separate playoffs from the publics. To put it another way, the recruiters have their own playoffs,

    the non-recruiters have theirs. Yet another way: the non-boundary schools have theirs, boundary laden schools have their own. My undergarments

    have never been in a bunch…………my groin is safe. Signed

  693. D11 Matt says:

    @JCB, absolutely. I would give the edge to NS as well. NL defense might be more impressive than the offense. They starting defense this year have given up 0 points in 3 of 4 games. The JV defense gave up the points after big leads in carry, PA and last week’s game. They rotate 6 guys on the dline which in A in impressive. Playing a top 10 AAA school they will need a complete game. They already have a huge win vs Northwestern who was #7 in AAA at the time and is HM in AAA at the moment. I expected a few loses like last year in regular season with them playing a good AAA schedule as an A team (last year AA). Max Preps has NL at #3 now in A ahead of bishop C and below Canton and Steelton.

  694. ScottyB says:


    I expected Roman to win, especially with PV backup QB still getting his sea legs. This is my first time seeing Roman this year and they are very talented with several Div. 1 recruits but man are they undisciplined, way too many silly penalties. Their D-Line really dominated the line of scrimmage and lived in PV’s backfield all night as you surely saw yourself. I’m interested to see how they do against a super solid Malvern squad on Friday.

    Season a 1/3 way thru and things are starting to take shape in district one, we will continue to find out who are the contenders and pretenders.

  695. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    I was going to take a shot at Jay’s question, but really not that familiar with the history of the Inter-Ac and other PA Independent schools. Plus you nailed it pretty well.

    I may be in the minority here, but I’d love to see those non PIAA schools in a PA football playoffs with the PIAA schools. Add some smaller schools to the SEPA arsenal. But like you said, the Separatists would be coming out of hibernation at breakneck speeds and getting their collective undergarments is such nasty bunches I’d be afraid they’d be doing permanent damage to their groin areas and end up suing the PIAA into oblivion. Would not be pretty.

  696. JCB says:

    @D11 Matt Should be a good one on Friday in Slatington. NS is getting their best player back for Friday which might put them over the edge. Will be interesting to see if they can slow down NL’s offense.

  697. The Joneses says:

    @Jay I had this conversation with family over the weekend. People would RIOT in my opinion if that was allowed. All of the individuals who hate the fact SJP plays in the PIAA never allow that top happen, unless they actually created a public playoff and private playoffs.

    The Inter-Ac is heavy on tradition. The other teams in the league are not interested in change and most are traditionally considered or known for sports other than football. Both of my sons went to Inter-Ac schools before leaving. I have 4 close friends who’s son’s played football at Malvern. Malvern is big on their football program and they get a ton of Alumni support. GA and Penn Charter seek more to beat each other than win the Inter-Ac championship. Malvern has tried in the past to get the league to move and at most they got one other school (Haverford I believe) to side with them. Since they have a tradition, they will not break off and leave the Inter-Ac on their own. Fun fact Cameron Reddish of the NY Knicks last played football in Middle School at Malvern Prep. He was quite the QB.

  698. Jay says:

    Due to my overnight schedule I’ve relied heavily on this site to catch up with results because it’s incredibly difficult to get to games at 7pm, which is equivalent to about 3am for normal people. Hopefully not too much longer.

    But the point of this post is that looking through some schedules and results, it’s a dang shame that Malvern Prep doesn’t compete in the state tournament. They’ve taken care of three solid opponents (I understand LaSalle is having a down year but still)…

    Has it always been this way? Why does that league not participate in the tournament? I understand they aren’t part of the PIAA (correct me if I’m wrong) but how come? How awesome would it be to see them part of the tourney (at any classification apparently)?!

  699. D11 Matt says:

    I mentioned a few days ago about the big game between #5 A state ranked Northern Lehigh and the #10 AAA state ranked North Schuylkill……turns out PCN also thinks it will be a big game and are having that game as game of the week live from Slatington Friday night.

  700. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – totally agree with you, I think McKeesport and CV are the 2 biggest threats to Aliquippa, I saw McKeesport play Belle Vernon 2 weeks ago, they have an excellent defense and totally shut down Quinton Martin. Will be interesting to see how TJ does this week against BV, who of course beat them twice last season. I may go see the West A-Aliquippa game this week, West A is much improved and this is clearly their best team since Bob Palko left.

    @NW PA – agree with you about Cathedral Prep, at this point I would consider them the favorite to beat the WPIAL winner in the quarterfinals, especially if that game is played in Erie. 2A is pretty loaded in the western bracket, Westinghouse from the city league is very good and expect them to make some noise in the playoffs, they had a very impressive win at Steelton Highspire a few weeks ago, there are several very good teams in the WPIAL in 2A, so there should be some pretty competitive playoff games in 2A on this side of the state. .

  701. Wpialguy says:

    West Allegheny is 4-0 and is a new top 5 team in wpial 4A. To be honest it looks like TJ is going to have a down year. They only beat Latrobe by 14. TJ will still lose 1 or less games but frankly i think Aliquippa, McKeesport, and Central Valley are stronger title contenders than TJ at this point.

  702. Cyoball1 says:

    @Foleman I agree they must clean up the penalties especially the personal foul calls. No place for that in the game. As far as the WWE wrestling moves you’re referencing, I didn’t catch those.

  703. NW PA says:

    A few thoughts from the great northwest. In 6A Mcdowell is looking tough, they were beating NA for 3 quarters in a very close game and NA turned on the offense in the fourth and won. The next few weeks in the WPIAL will dictate how 6A shapes up. Cathedral is looking strong and should give Mcdowell a close game next Friday. I believe Cathedral has the ability to beat whoever comes out of the WPIAL in 5A, though it will be a very close game. In 4A Meadville has been putting up a ton of points, they have the kids to run that Wing T, but they are no threat to anyone from the WPIAL. Meadville should make it to the quarters none the less. In 3A Oil City is the team this year, but much like 2 years ago, should win a couple playoff games before losing in the quarters. 2A looks to be Farrel again, but Sharpsville is also tough. Not sure about the 2A road in the playoffs so I have no opinion. In 1A Reynolds looks to be the team but again I’m not sure about their playoffs.

  704. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    And especially since the Inter-Ac doesn’t charge for games (at least the ones that I’ver been to in the past), I really got my monies worth!!! Guess tho I was able to offset some of the gas and tolls for the trip down there.

    Looking very much like a return trip to Malvern Friday for Roman Catholic and Malvern Prep. If anyone can find me a potentially better game in SEPA Friday night, let me know!!!

  705. Foleman says:

    Roman 26-Perkiomen Valley 10 Roman’s aggressive defense kept PV’S offense in check the entire game. Roman once again shot itself in the foot in the 1st half with several penalties which included 5 personal infractions plus an interception and a fumble. Roman’s super frosh QB was off in the 1st half but shined in the 2nd half throwing several long strikes to his speedy wide receivers. Roman is very talented, but their staff has to clean up the penalties as it will cost them a game down the road. Roman’s defense talks a ton of trash, you can’t sack the QB and then get up off the turf and start screaming, when gang tackling a ball carrier, you can’t put the RB in a headlock and try to rip off his helmet. It’s clear that the ref’s don’t like the constant chatter from their players.

  706. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X it looks like you got your monies worth Friday.

  707. Kevin X says:

    As mentioned before, I did take in the Imhotep Malvern Prep game Friday night. Another great game and perfect evening to enjoy some big time big boy high school football (a lot of beef on that field Friday night) in an almost small college atmosphere. The only blemish on the evening was a potentially serious injury to Imhotep’s defensive Sophomore Zahir Mathis in the 3rd quarter. Game was stopped for 20 plus minutes as they attended to him and he was then transported by ambulance to a local hospital I assume. Guessing an upper body/neck/head injury. Always a very scary and serious situation. I was going to ask you guys if anyone had any updates on his situation, but I found some real good news on his Twitter page:

    “Thank you everyone for the prayers. I am officially home and doing well. I will be back soon!”

  708. D11 Matt says:

    Huge game next Friday in D11…..3-1 AAA North Schuylkill (defending dist 11 3A champs) visits 4-0 and #5 A state ranked Northern Lehigh (defending AA dist 11 champs). North Schuylkill’s only lose to to a very good Mount Carmel. Northern Lehigh s biggest win was against rival AAA Northwestern in week 2 (state ranked #7 at the time in 3A ( who played Allen central Catholic in dist 11 4A champ game and lost a close game). Northern Lehigh moved up from 10 to 5 in pennlive last week. They have given up -25 rush yards last two weeks against teams that actually have a win already. They gave up 12 to PA and last night in a 61-0 win over Pine Grove gave up -37 rush yards…. Should be a great game. Northern will be tested next week, in a few weeks against Notre Dame GP and in week 10 vs rival Palmerton. They could very well have a loss or two but these are all games against good bigger schools.

  709. Jeff H. says:

    Wow, couple of stunners in the WPIAL tonight, defending 6A state champ Mt Lebo came back from a 16-0 deficit in the fourth quarter to shock Central Catholic 17-16 on a walk off 18 yard field goal with no time remaining. Its looking like for the first time in a decade NA is the favorite to win the WPIAL, they play PCC next week so we’ll see.

    5A #1 Gateway lost at unheralded Franklin Regional 16-7, they face upstart 4-0 Hempfield in 2 weeks on the road in a must win game, if they lose that game they likely will need to beat Penn Trafford just to make the playoffs. Speaking of Hempfield they host PT next week and then Gateway the following, so we’ll know a lot about that conference soon enough, only the top 2 are guaranteed to make the 8 team playoff field but the third place team might make it as one of the 2 wildcards. I think right now Upper St Clair looks like the best 5A team in the WPIAL, followed by Penn Hills.

    PT beat Belle Vernon 14-13 tonight, despite 2 tough loses in a row Belle Vernon remains the clear favorite to win the WPIAL 3A title.

  710. Kevin X says:

    Malvern bound this evening. Going preppy and Philly tough tonight. Imhotep @ Malvern Prep. Hope the game continues my Friday night lights roll of excellent games. An intriguing one regardless.

  711. Jeff H. says:

    Not much chatter on here about any big games tonight, the Danville-Loyalsock game may give us an indication of who is the biggest challenger to Wyomissing in the East in 3A.

    Imhotep against Malvern is also an interesting matchup to see if Imhotep can bounce back after their loss to Archbishop Spalding last week, I think Malvern wins that game

    Not too many marque games out West tonight, Mt. Lebanon takes on PCC in a rematch of last years WPIAL title game when Lebo mercy ruled them, so PCC obviously will be motivated to avenge that loss, I think PCC wins but closer than most people expect. The other nice game is Belle Vernon in 3A hosting 5A Penn Trafford, both were held to a touchdown the last 2 weeks by McKeesport. Belle Vernon beat PT by 3 TD’s last year but I think PT wins tonight on BV’s home field, playing this level of competition can only help Belle Vernon in the long run, because they won’t face anyone better in 3A than the teams they’ve played the last 2 weeks. .

  712. JCo says:

    @Michael D: I doubt it, personally. One of the major issues facing those programs is the general unavailability of suitable practice facilities, so I have my doubts that combining the programs would help in that regard. But certainly, if the logistics could be worked out, it would make the program more competitive.

    I will never understand why the EPC forces an entire week of crossovers. They moved it from Week 1 to the middle of this season, but the fact remains that the skill gap between the EPC North and EPC South is, by and large, significant. It would be much better for nearly every program to have a non-conference week where the top of the EPC South can test themselves against the best of other districts, and the bottom of the EPC North can find smaller schools they’d have competitive games with.

  713. Foleman says:

    NW, it would be nice if Mt. Carmal gets another State Title, it’s been a long time. Back in the Day, MC was winning a State Championship every other year and played many of the area powerhouse programs-Berwick, SC, Allentown Central Catholic, they were a machine. The MC area has really taken a turn for the worse in the last few decades and S. Columbia has profited from players moving into their district.

  714. Michael D says:

    Random football question………I know they are rivals but any chance Allen and Dieruff can combine their football programs? Just a thought

  715. MCA75 says:

    I’m not convinced MCA will beat Southern this year but I knew going into this season it would be their best chance in years. MCA had some pretty decent teams the past 5 years that could have gone far in AA if not for having to go through some of SCAs best ever teams to get out of districts. Gavin G was the difference maker last year. Used to be a great rivalry before Southern went on another level. Communities are very close, there have been many recent SCA players who are kids of MCA (and Shamokin) star athletes from a generation ago. At least looking forward to a competitive game (probably 2) this year. I wouldn’t be surprised if Southern has another loss to Danville coming into the MCA game.

  716. NW says:

    Mount Carmel is going to play for a state title this year. This is the year they beat Southern and I think they do it pretty handily. The mammoths up front are too much for anyone to handle

  717. D11 Matt says:

    Pennlive new rankings jumped Northern Lehigh from 10 to 5 in state in A. They are starting to get state recognition now. They also put Mount Carmel ahead of Southern Columbia in AA after Southerns lose.

  718. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – I think your prediction of the 3A-6A runners-up winning Gold this year has a distinct chance to become reality in 3 months. Obviously SJP and Imhotep are big favorites, I don’t see a Penn Trafford type team coming out of the WPIAL this year in 5A, there are quite a few very good teams but none I think will beat Imhotep, and that’s if the WPIAL winner beats Erie Prep in the quarterfinals, which is a very big if, right now I’d make ECP the favorite in that game, especially if it’s played in Erie.

    In 4A I don’t see anyone in the East beating McDevitt, and Aliquippa has to run the gauntlet to get out of the meat grinder WPIAL, with McKeesport, TJ and Central Valley standing in their way. As for 3A I went to the McKeesport vs. Belle Vernon game, and McKeesport’s defense totally shut down Quinton Martin and held him to about 30 yards, he’s the #1 ranked recruit in PA in the class of 2024 by some recruiting services. Fortunately for Belle Vernon they won’t face a defense anywhere near as good or fast as McKeesport in 3A, although they do play another very good defense in Penn Trafford this week, if they make it to the state final Wyomissing will have a big advantage in the trenches and probably outweigh them by 30-40 pounds per lineman, their line play was their weakness last year and the main reason they lost to Aliquippa in the 4A final, and nothing I saw last Friday has changed.

    @WPIALguy- you are right about WPIAL 5A, I don’t know that I’d go so far as to say all eight playoff teams could win, but I could make a pretty good case for 6, Gateway, Penn Hills, Penn Trafford, and the 3 south hills teams – Bethel, Peters, and Upper St Clair. I’m not sold yet on Pine Richland or any other 8th team winning 3 in a row, i also would not be surprised if Hempfield is the final qualifier, very interested to see how they match up with PT and Gateway, they play them back to back after their game this week against Shaler.

  719. Buddy says:

    @Mike S

    Zero (again, that’s 0) both ways? So, you’re sure? If so, this is the first year that has happened. Never said NP will run the table, Kevin X did.

    Beck is same coach as 20 years ago……….. so elite. Went to state final 11 years ago, had a state championship team 6 years ago if it wasn’t for

    SJP (mainly, D’Andre swift). Granted, this is the worse defense I have seen in 20 years, btw, seen them play thrice. I have no answer. Personally,

    I don’t think they will run the table, might even miss playoffs. But I hope Kevin X is right……and I’m wrong.

  720. ScottyB says:

    @ Mike S.

    Perk Valley is very strong again this year but I have concern about their QB situation. They had to start their sophomore backup this week against Cheltenham and he filled in admirably but I would assume they want their normal starter back this week for Roman, who looks to be very good. I am actually going to try and get to that game on Friday as the atmosphere at Keenan stadium is typically pretty awesome.

    Anyone have any intel into the senior QB’s injury/health?

  721. The Joneses says:

    @Jeff H although SJP got the win. They showed me they can get in their own way. A well coached team with no fear could come away with the win like Erasmus Hall almost did. Maybe this was the wakeup call for them to not read the press clippings. LaSalle being down as they are could put them in a lull.

  722. MikeS says:

    @Buddy Hensler, I’ve seen North Penn twice this season, and they start ZERO (that’s 0) both ways, they do bring in players in situations and to give players a rest, but the answer is ZERO in the two games I’ve seen! of course, as you said they could run the table, but suspect their defense will cost them at least one more game, and may cost them a run at D1 playoffs, not impressed though with 13 starters back, plus 2 that missed last year due to injuries, plus a transfer in of a Georgia Recruit and a 3 yr starter at QB, thought they would be better. @Chief Red Raider Coach Beck is not the same one you remember from 15-20 yrs ago, still a good coach, but not elite> Perk Valley is very good, I haven’t seen enough games/teams to say, but I would not rule them out.

  723. D11 Matt says:

    @WH……it should be a dog fight. NL has a very good veteran line (they played 15 games last year as juniors and sophomores) and a handful of good skill players (Ramos, Jimenez, N. Frame, Tosh, Abidelli). They played a close game vs Northwestern last year and got them this year. They also played North Schuylkill close last year. I thought NL would be around 7-3 again and then when they play A schools in playoffs go off like last year in AA. They still have Notre Dame, Palmerton, and Jim Thorpe left ….all good AA or AAA teams. Should be a dogfight in two weeks in Slatington. They have some history playing in three straight playoffs from 09-11. I just think by watching this team they are a top 5 A team. Behind Canton, Steelton, Bishop C. But I think they would be a few TD favorite over Tri Valley in Dist 11 A. Lackawanna looks like they could overtake Old Forge in A in dist 2. NL beat them in AA playoffs 35-14 last year. We shall see. Should be another fun season in Slatington.

  724. Scott G Hagy says:

    Wilson displayed its continued improvement since its first game debacle against Roman. They won big against M.L. King getting out to a 37-0 lead and then playing their backups for most of the second half. Still experiencing turnover issues and too many dropped passes, but the defense played solidly. This team will need to keep improving, but there’s reason to believe they will. Their top running back has yet to play, and his return should take some pressure off of Cam Jones and the new QB.

  725. Irish 1 says:

    @ foleman, the 10 parking thing actually isn’t bad they don’t take gate, so you can have a car full of people get in for 10. Was expecting more from Berks Catholic even with graduation losses. They lost by a couple tds to couple decent teams first couple weeks. Pjp starts soph qb and several other sophs on both sides along with a freshman in secondary should continue to improve if they stay healthy.

  726. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, I don’t get the $10.00 Parking fee but since they have no gate to the field I guess they have to charge the fee for admittance. Yes, that Roman collapse a few years back was frustrating, however, I never felt that BC’S defense could stop PJP’S offense, BC has a new defensive coordinator this year and they were out of position on several pass plays.

  727. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Not sure I’d say they “cruised the rest of the way,” as I though a little scare was thrown in when BC cut the lead to 42-28 mid way thru the 4th qtr. and had the big Mo squarely in their corner. I just witnessed an epic collapse less than 24 hours prior and thought maybe this going to be a case of deja vu all over again?? Also I was thinking about PJPII’s opening game and second half implosion against Roman a few years ago. But they responded nicely with a time consuming drive to salt it away. They have a nice QB in #9 and a versatile big workhorse RB in #13. “D” played very well in the first half.

    Also, a shout out and TY to the parking attendant who didn’t whack me $10 for parking. Much appreciated!!!!

  728. Kevin X says:

    First, I agree with Chief.

    Now I’m going to make some predictions, and I hate making predictions, because I hate being wrong, but desperate times calls for desperate measures, as I will try my best to get some of you North Penn peeps who drank waaaaaay too much of the pre season hype Kool-Aid to take a step or two back from the ledge.

    First prediction: NP will run the table the rest of regular season (and make the 6A D1 playoffs).

    Second: They’ll advance to at least the District One 6A semi finals/final 4.

    Third: Upper Dublin, maybe as Buddy said, “is not that great,” but personally, I don’t see that many “great” PA teams out there. Maybe I’m just a tough grader, but they are indeed a very good football team and are well coached (I now how many of you love that cliche). They, like, NP will make the District One 5A semi finals along with Strath Haven and Rustin, and one other TBD school (feel free to fill in the TBD).

    Forth: Both the District One 6A and 5A classifications are totally wild open this year (not really a prediction, more of an observation). And as for the most part, a neutral fan, II’m more than fine with. The usual suspects will be there for sure, but no clear cut favorites. I’ll even really put my neck on the line and take flyer with Ridley winning 6A.

    Fifth: Unrelated to North Penn, but in an oddity, I can legitimately see 4 state champion runner-ups from last season getting over the hump and winning a chip in CV (Oh, that just doesn’t sound right, but it is what it is). For the record: 3A Wyo, 4A McDevitt, 5A Imhotep and 6A, you guessed it, Saint Joseph Preparatory School.

    Now feel free to skewer me……… 🙂

  729. WH says:

    What are we thinking D11 Matt in the North Schuylkill NL game. NS is capable of giving up the big play which can benefit NL but NS may be too much in the trenches like last year. Hammer the Spartans

  730. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul 49-Berks Catholic 28 PJP led 35-7 at half and cruised the rest of the way, they didn’t punt the entire game as BC’S defense was a sieve. PJP’S 6’3 Soph QB Terlesky throws a nice ball and has a bright future ahead of him. BC’S program is in the tank and is looking at an 0-4 start for the 1st time in the school history with With hated rival Wyomissing visiting BC on Friday.

  731. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh should make an appearance in A top 5 East on this site this week. Pennlive has them 10 in the state in A and pafootballnews has them 7 and they won today 44-14 (leading 37-0 at one point). Old forge lost again which should knock them out of most rankings. NL should roll next week and that would set up a huge week 5 game hosting North Schuylkill. Could be 4-0 NL vs 3-1 North Schuylkill.

  732. Chief Red Raider says:

    I wouldn’t write the obituary for North Penn just yet — it’s way too early. What is the expectation for such a storied program anyway? With the private schools recruiting advantages it hard to see anyone beating St. Joe’s — though I still think it is possible — it’s high school football — short game, turnovers, bad refs, bad weather, injuries, fluke plays, etc. My guess is North Penn will make the playoffs and win a couple games — but who knows? And don’t sleep on the Red Raiders — not the powerhouse they’ve been — but they always get better as the season moves along.

  733. Buddy Hensler says:


    Time to let Beck go? Maybe you wanna check his record for the past 22 years. @ MIKE S: Not sure how many players Beck has playing both ways this year.

    In the past, he has played his most skilled players both ways. Maybe he’s lacking skilled players. Not sure who calls the defense for NP,

    but they failed terribly. Gonna be a down year I expect. D1 in the SOL isn’t going far this year. Maybe the Chesmont. Best they can hope for is

    the Eastern final tho. State final is a foregone conclusion.

  734. D11 Matt says:

    Southern lost first game at home since 2010 and first game against an AA opponent since 2016 title game. What a run. Mount Carmel looks tough this year. They play in regular season and probably playoffs (I think MCA is AA again). They might get Southern this year.

  735. MikeS says:

    Well, kinda shocked at the poor football being played in the SOL of late. North Penn’s defense cost them another game, I still don’t get it, Beck is trying to play 2 platoon football without having the players to do that, he needs to be playing his better players both ways, I’ve said that before and it’s cost them again. What I don’t get is why a school with one of the highest enrollments in the state can’t come up with 24 quality starters? Watched Quakertown scrimmage Perk Valley (3-0) & saw them against Southern Lehigh (2-1) and thought maybe they’d be ok, but after being beaten by 80 some points in the last two games, have serious second thoughts. There is no one in SOL capable of making a run to the D1 title, for a league that’s had 8 or 9 6A state champions they are really down, and don’t really understand why.

  736. Foleman says:

    Bishop McDevitt 56-LaSalle 7 it was 42-7 at the half. LaSalle’s win over N. Penn…… bad is N.Penn who just lost again, time for Beck to go…..was fools gold. 2nd game in a row LaSalle got blown out, St Joe Prep wont have to worry about a close game with LaSalle this year as the explorers are down. Expect to see McDevitt representing the East in 4A

  737. Buddy says:

    I been following NP for over 35 years. That’s the ineptest defense I ever seen. UD isn’t really all that great (I believe that will come to light in the playoffs),

    So that collapse is inexcusable. Maybe they have the wrong defensive coach. Not sure if NP makes the playoffs (only missed one in the last 23 years),

    but they sure as hell won’t go far. Sour grapes? Sure, all part of being a fan.

  738. Wpialguy says:

    Over in the west, i can honestly say it might be the most competitive i can remember in all classes. 5A is going to be brutal. 8 teams make the playoffs and i can honestly say all 8 teams will be good enough to win the wpial. 6A is down on this side but it should be very competitive. You can pretty much pencil in SJP as state champ in 6A.

  739. Margaret says:

    Aliquippa lover you don’t read well. Since your dealing in your fantasy “it they played in A” u clearly missed the part where I said the level of competition is greater here then in any other rise or drop.

  740. Kevin X says:

    Wow, three in a row (great in person games) to start the season. Choose to stay local and popped over to Crawford Stadium and U Dub and North Penn. Good choice X!!! Great game, and even a greater comeback for Upper Dublin. Coach Stover and Nyfise Mcintyre maybe feeling the best this evening. Thumbs down tho to you Upper Dub fans and members of the student section bailing early. I saw you. Not a good look.

  741. Jeff H. says:

    @ The Joneses – interested in seeing if SJP finally put it together?? I watched their whole game against St. Thomas Aquinas and they looked pretty darn good considering they fell behind 21-7 in the first quarter and played most of the game without 2 of their top defensive players, playing against a team ranked #5 in the country in the heat and humidity of South Florida in August, their performance in that game told me they don’t have very far to go to “put it all together”.

  742. Jeff H. says:

    @Margaret – try to follow along here, Aliquippa is a single A school by enrollment and always has been, had they played where their enrollment put them every year they would have dominated A and won a boatload of state titles, I don’t think anyone who has followed HS football in this state for the last 50 years would disagree with that. Notice I did not say where they should play, just where their enrollment put them. Every year Aliquippa has 2 goals, win another WPIAL title and compete for and win a state title, if you are insinuating Aliquippa’s goal every year is not to win a state title you have no clue what you’re talking about. Yes, they lost to both Mt Carmel and Southern Columbia in state championship games, they also lost to Wyomissing in 2012, all were for the AA title when they were an A school.

    You started this argument by taking a shot at Aliquippa and I’m merely responding, you criticize Aliquippa for playing up and not winning more state titles, but are criticizing Northern Lehigh for not playing up this cycle when their enrollment is A, you can’t have it both ways. Aliquippa is one of the top 5 winningest schools in state history so obviously they are doing something right and have been for 100+ years. And before you make a counter argument I am aware Mt Carmel has the most wins in state history, and yes, both Mt Carmel and Southern Columbia are 2 of most storied programs in the state, and Aliquippa is right there on the list of all time great programs, why is it so difficult for you to see that?

    As for your snide remark that maybe we will catch on out here in the western part of the state, the 4 state titles the WPIAL won last year and 15 overall in the last 6 six years since the switch to 6 classes seems to indicate we’ve caught on!

  743. Margaret says:

    Many people in the eastern part of the state used to think an Eastern conference championship meant more than a district title but then the 1980’s ended and they adapted. Maybe u will catch on out there

  744. Margaret says:

    Oh no I didn’t say Aliquippa would duck people, I’m just saying with your logic of them winning all these titles if they were in double aa when they haven’t ever beaten southern or Mount carmel before for titles. But they have lost to both. Here is my story, you play to win championships and titles it sounds like Aliquippa had decided a wpial title means more than a state tite

  745. Jeff H. says:

    @Margaret – I’ve explained several times in the past on this board why Aliquippa plays up, I’ll give it one more shot, Unlike any other district in the state the WPIAL only puts teams in the same classification in the same conference, and all of the Quips natural rivals are bigger than they are. When there were 4 classes they played 2A and not 1A so they could be in the same conference with Beaver, Beaver Falls, and the rest of their Beaver County rivals, if they didn’t play up all their conference games would have been against schools that are a pretty far distance from Aliquippa. When the PIAA went to 6 classes in 2016 most of their rivals were in 3A, including new rival Central Valley, so that’s why they played 3A for 4yrs until the PIAA forced them to play up to 4A for the last 2 cycles. Trust me, it had absolutely nothing to do with avoiding Southern Columbia, if you still believe that you have no clue how the WPIAL operates, or the mindset of the people who live in Aliquippa, they don’t duck playing anyone and never have. .

  746. NE PA says:

    Yes Margaret, NS’s offense will be there downfall in close games. And the debacles with clock management and game time decisions Wally makes doesn’t help. Gonna be interesting to see what happens against green pond in a few weeks

  747. Jeff H. says:

    @Margaret – Obviously you are not familiar with and don’t follow western pa football or you would understand 18 WPIAL titles is a VERY big deal in this part of the state, and making the district finals 14 yrs in a row is off the charts good, no other program in the WPIAL has ever come close to that record of excellence. THE WPIAL is by far the largest district in the state in terms of number of schools, and you have to win 2-3 playoff games in the district every year just to make the finals. No one is talking about participation trophies, I am merely making the point that if Aliquippa played where their enrollment put them they would have won at least half the A state titles over the last 35 years. Do you disagree that Aliquippa is one of the most storied programs in the history of the state? If so you are definitely in the minority and not a very good student of PA HS football history.

  748. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I would stay away from Malvern vs Wood due to the offseason would had and what Malvern did to LaSalle. Unless you are looking for an early night. UD vs NP seems like a really good one. McDevitt @ LaSalle maybe just to see if they are as bad as Malvern made LaSalle look. I am interested in seeing if the SJP team has finally put it together or if St Peter’s Prep was just that bad.

  749. Margaret says:

    Lol I love your argument. If Aliquippa would have played in the class they were supposed to be in they would have as many state titles as southern, lol. I don’t know how many state titles southern has let’s say 12, so Aliquippa has 4, so your telling me 4 times there playing up didn’t matter. But they lost out on 8 others because they played up and were not the best. You don’t get a playing up trophy. 4-8 isn’t a good record of being wrong in playing up. Who cares about wpial titles. Why does that matter

  750. Jeff H. says:

    @JWS69 – Having followed HS football since the early 1970’s I am fully aware of Aliquippa’s history, having won more WPIAL titles than any other school with 18. They have made the WPIAL final an astonishing 14 years in a row and counting, all while playing up at least 1 class, and in the last 6 yrs 2 or 3 classes, that run is unprecedented in a district as big and competitive as the WPIAL.. All of their state titles have come in classes above their “A” enrollment, and the schools you mentioned they lost to were bigger than they were, particularly Berwick. The fact is if Aliquippa played “A” ball since the inception of the state playoffs in 1988 they would have won at least as many, if not more state titles than Southern Columbia. Also consider how many NFL players and Hall of Famer’s have come through Aliquippa, the list is practically endless. By any objective standard Aliquippa is one of the most storied football programs in state history, period.

    @Kevin X – Regarding Aliquippa playing up to “AA” the last several years, I think they would have beaten Southern Columbia the last 2 years, they would not have beaten their 2017-19 teams.

    The 2 games on your list that I think are the most intriguing are UD vs. NP and McDevitt-LaSalle, I would vote for one of those 2, I expect both of those games will be very competitive.

    I have a similar dilemma , do I go see Penn Hills host Pine Richland, with PR coach Jon LeDonne facing the team he coached for the last 5yrs and lead to a state title in 2018, or Belle Vernon vs. McKeesport, I’m leaning towards the latter because I think both of those teams are better than either PH or PR.

  751. Margaret says:

    Aliquippa has won 4 state titles. My argument with them always has been why not dominate and them move up. They felt they were better than they were. Maybe they needed to or they would lose rivalry games for being a smaller school idk maybe they moved up because they could never beat southern or mt. Carmel.

  752. ScottyB says:

    Kevin X,

    They are all interesting games for different reasons but I’d probably head to Coach McNelly Stadium to catch the 2-0 Eagles and the 2-0 Rams.

    Hoping to hit the Roman @ Perk Valley game next week.

  753. Margaret says:

    I don’t think they did lose 8 starters on offense. 3 lineman a tight end and wr r back and you can almost say 4 lineman back. So with 3,1,1 that’s 5 starters back and 6 starters graduated.He has already blew it with the talent that has come and gone in the last 10 years. Ashland and frackvile pee wees and ns junior high should be running the same offense and defensive ideas. Every 2 years he completely changes his offense because his qb graduates. Leiby was the real option, best running qb they ever had, erratic throwing the ball, His son comes in and they bring the hurry up offense ok runner, good passer but his passing and offense was greatly helped by always having the defense tired and on there toes. I really think it will destroy there season. He isn’t arrogant enough to think only his son could run a hurry up offense I hope not. And to whoever there defensive coordinator is- please watch videos of lmid to late 90,s and early 2000 games from North schuylkilll. They intimidated offenses. Jim thorpe would be undefeated 2 or 3 years in a row at 6-0 and north schuylkill would beat them 49-0. You have a good defense but somehow you get 3 3 and outs and then you let the team drive right down the field, a defense can’t take plays off and drives off. Bob wehry was a linebacker in 95 and 96 and they sent him after the qb it seemed like on every play, I don’t think ns has a sack from a lb in 2 years.ans that’s not a knock on there lb*s because if u sent them they would be there.Two more things, practice in pads wally and stop giving days off this ain’t badminton and when you have a 35-0 lead at half please tell your backups and younger Spartans there objective is still to score and not be scored on. Nice guys finish in the turkey run housing

  754. Kevin X says:

    Need some help this week (and probably next week as well) of choosing a game to attend Friday night. I have 5 games on my radar:

    Central Dauphin @ Coatesville
    Malvern Prep @ Wood
    Upper Dublin @ North Penn
    Cumberland Valley @ Spring-Ford
    Bishop McDevitt @ LaSalle

    Where do I park my butt for 2 1/2 hours Friday evening???

  755. JWS69 says:

    Hey Jeff, When they played years ago, Mount Carmel beat Aliquippa 26 – 6, and Southern beat Aliquippa 49 – 14. And when Aliquippa was ranked number two in the country, Berwick beat them 14 – 0. No doubt, Aliquippa has had an excellent program, but in face to face competition they have lost to other powers, and they have won…in other words they have not dominated as some would suggest. They may very well have had a better record had they stayed in A, but the actual results of on the field competition show they aren’t as dominant as you have surmised.

  756. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Too bad the ‘Quips didn’t “play-up” at “AA” since 2016.

  757. Jeff H. says:

    @Margaret – Aliquippa is an A school by enrollment and if they played A ball every year they would have won more state titles than even Southern Columbia, can you imagine if last years team or their 2018 3A championship team played A ball every game would have been a mercy rule.

  758. WH says:

    It looks like chowansky will be back for the green pond game until then we rely on the genius of wally hall. They did lose 8 starters on offense and wally has this O running like a well oiled machine.

  759. Margaret says:

    If northern lehigh plays canton In the state playoffs it might be on the radio. Imagine having to drive all the way to canton cursing at your wife after getting lost only to have to drive back to northern lehigh 3 hours later praying you get lost.

  760. Margaret says:

    Well Matt you don’t seem to understand that its so bad in class a football in pa. that a state title from a historically AA school would almost be irrelevant. Teams like nw lehigh and notre dame and north schuylkill won’t play them after this year because of there drop and they will be lining up against Shenandoah valley and nativity in the regular season with the hopes of beating Tri valley in districts and getting by canton before losing to steel high. Loss of male students in grades 9-12 doesn’t always mean you should lower your athletic standards. My guess is n. Lehigh will be AA in the next cycle and you stay in AA. Now Aliquippa always plays up and I knock them sometimes because they may lose out on titles but even playing down where they should be they still would have a battle to win a state title. I’d rather beat Palmerton, west catholic, Dunmore and lose to Southern or mt. Carmel than beat Tri Valley, Bristol, old forge and lose to steel high..There used to be an all American conference where cardinal Brennan would beat Lourdes or nativity for the conference title after playing bucktail, col. Mont. Vo tech, east Juniata. Class a is the all American conference. Good luck

  761. D11 Matt says:

    Also, You say why did NL drop down? Why wouldn’t they? They won thier first dist championship since 2010 last year. It’s not like they were winning district titles every year lol. In 2016 4-6, 2017 they were 0-10, 2018 they were 5-5, 2019 6-4, 2020 5-4, 2021 7-3. They have a good program last 25 years but have had down years. The enrollment also dropped significantly last few years. After this year, they might have a few down years again. They just happened to have great classes last few years. Most small schools have ups and downs last decade or so. Southern being the exception.

  762. D11 Matt says:


    Iv said on this forum Northern Lehigh is a very good A team. The dropped down after being AA state semi finalists….but they have had down years recently (winless in 2017). They return entire lines, and a few good skills players. They upset state ranked AAA Northwestern Lehigh last week. Pennlive has NL ranked 10 in A this week and Pa football news has Northern Lehigh at 7 in A. I think they have a chance to be top 5 soon. They do play a tough 3A schedule and with play NS, NDGP and Palmerton yet. They play no A schools. I think besides Canton and Steelton High they might be third best A team in East. They should be 4-0 going into the NS game in a couple weeks. Last year they went 7-3 with same tough schedule and went on a run once they got to playoffs.

  763. Margaret says:

    Anyone hear anything on how northern Lehigh will do this year? Rumor is they just reload and drop a class. It’s hard to get excited about moving from AA to A. Northern Lehigh never has been an A school. Class A is so watered down that really there is no reason to move down really unless your not competitive or you were A and moved up but then back down. Williams valley is AA in d11 now so it’s only little tri valley that can stop them there. And steel high is really one of the only good eastern A schools left. What are you winning if you do win for northern Lehigh. I can tell you this Mt. Carmel has been declining in student population. They will never be a single a school because it’s not there caliber of competition there. It isn’t northern Lehighs either. If Williams valley moved back down in 2 years I could see that, they have been A all along, it’s there level of play and they r good there. But cmon northern Lehigh has been a very good AA school. It’s the one class drop you can’t make if your northern Lehigh. 6A to 5A 5A to 4A 4A to 3A and 3A to 2A I could see the drop isn’t off the charts but 2A to A is off the chart drop in competition

  764. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – I couldn’t find a box score for the PCC- Abraham Lincoln game, I know it was 21-6 at half, but not sure of the 2nd half scoring, I agree the final was a bit closer than most expected including me. I too was very surprised at the Malvern Prep-LaSalle score, will be very interesting to see how they fare against McDevitt this week, i know it’s early and Wood hasn’t even played a game yet but from this side of the state it appears Roman may be the 2nd best team in the PCL this year.

    @WPIALguy – totally agree with everything you said about Westinghouse, nice to see a city league team win a big intra-district game and think they will give the WPIAL winner all they can handle if they make it that far, they would meet in the state semi-finals

  765. Margaret says:

    I think Wally is the best head coach that was ever at mahanoy area and north schuylkill coaching and who played at Shenandoah valley.

  766. Margaret says:

    Wally hall should be a red head. It would make sense then. The hurry up offense go go go to feeeeeeeeaaaaaarrrrrrr thhhhhhheeeee tuuuuuurtttttlllle offense. It appears your qb is very erratic. Ok runner, tinari is a bruising running back, carraballo is the defensive lineman he made a fb this year, Halford is ok, flail is a superstar, did weitz somehow become so overweight he can no longer run at RB? He couldn’t have gotten too much bigger he was like 330 last year, so why not run it down peoples throats, not with the same plays and formations, run the hurry up and run it down there throat. They need chowansky back to straighten out both offense and defense. Did flail ever play qb? And Wally hallski 21 against blue mountain with the ball inside the 10 at least 2 times in the first half without any points and the ultimate end of half blunder I would say the offense was offensive. If chowansky ain’t back soon they can lose to no. Lehigh, Notre dame, Palmerton, Jim thorpe or Pottsville. Because it looks like the snail speed offense is in.

  767. WH says:

    Looks like Wally Hall is the best coach ever.

  768. Wpialguy says:

    Westinghouse of the Pittsburgh City league beat Steelton High 38-19. That’s one of the biggest wins for city league in years. Westinghouse made the 2A quarterfinals last year. First city league team since 2012 to do that. I’m thinking they can compete with the WPIAL champ in 2A this year. Good to see a city league team have some success. Former Westinghouse player Dayon Hayes also helped Pitt beat WVU last Thursday. He’s a DE. Great potential.

  769. Foleman says:

    Pottsgrove 20 West Catholic 6 WC hung in there in the first Half as the score was 7-6 at Halftime. 2nd half Pottsgrove’s huge line took over scored 2 touchdowns to close the game out. Game was penalty filled and very sloppy. WC must have jumped offsides a dozen times. WC has some size and athleticism and they can hit, they need to find a passing game if they are going to do any damage in the 2A playoffs. Pottsgrove is big and strong up front and has 2 small, but very quick backs. Not sure who’s the favorite in 4A in District 1 but I don’t see many losses for Pottsgrove with their remaining regular season schedule, their game with Pope John Paul looks like the only competitive game left for the Grove.

  770. Kevin X says:

    Wow, awfully quiet around here a day after the second weekend of games. You guys all down the shore or away for the holiday weekend??

    I found myself back at my favorite HS football venue in Downingtown’s Kottmeyer stadium. Nice game between State College and D-Town East. Questioning the DTE passing game (or lack thereof) during the game, then heard afterwards their starting QB went down with an injury in last weeks game against Pennridge. Hopefully he’ll be back in good order in a few weeks as expected. DTE’s Bo Horvath was fun to watch.

    So what is the story with that questioning PCC and Lincoln game?? All I saw was the final score, 35-22, which I’m guessing most people thought a lot closer than expected. But scores always don’t tell the full story, so was the game that close, or was it 35-0 PCC at half with a subsequent second half running and the PCC JV guys got some second half action??

    Malvern Prep 35-0 over LaSalle. Yikes, didn’t see that one coming especially after seeing LaSalle come back and beat North Penn last week.

  771. Scott G Hagy says:

    Wilson rebounded fairly well on the road against Central Dauphin. Had some of their injured back and it showed, particularly on the defensive side. Still missing their top running back, but he’s expected to play in their next game.

  772. D11 Matt says:

    I said a few weeks ago watch Northern Lehigh in A…..tonight they beat their rival AAA Northwestern Lehigh who is PAfootball news #8 team in state in AAA. NL was #8 team in A. Northern lehigh had tons of talent returning and dropping to A. Now are they top 3 in A…..not yet but top 6 or 7 and top 4 in East (right now behind Steelton, Canton). Northwestern is a heck of a team that returned a lot from a close district final AAA lose to central Catholic last year. Northern has a few more big games…..against Notre Dame GP and North Schuylkill but this team is a very good A team.

  773. Jeff H. says:

    @mcd65 – everyone I know in Western PA is wondering exactly the same thing, why in the world is Abraham Lincoln driving to Pittsburgh this weekend, this isn’t college where Duquesne goes to Tallahassee to get mauled by Fl State for a nice payday. I get PCC has more openings on their schedule this year since they only have 4 6A opponents in the WPIAL but surely they could have found a better game with an opponent closer to Pittsburgh.

  774. mcd 65 says:

    Why would Abraham Lincoln drive 6 hours to Pittsburg just to get mauled by PCC? Makes no sense to me . Also, what is the latest on the fiasco at Archbishop Wood this year. They have cancelled 2 and possibly 3 of their games at the beginning of their schedule, There is still no current coaching staff listed or current roster on Max Prep. I know Dave Armstrong was named HC and they had At last count 9 starters transfer. SOOOOO Whats up??

  775. Scott G Hagy says:

    Roman won the ballgame, get over the ref situation.

  776. CYOBall1 says:

    Scott you could have called holding every single play on the Wilson O Line. They were getting abused by the Roman D Line. Cut it out. The refs called an overwhelming amount of penalties(timely) on Roman bc they were only looking at Roman.
    Moving on.

  777. Scott G Hagy says:

    robert – there were a few penalties called on Wilson- granted Roman had more, but deservedly so. That’s not to take away from their effort- Roman is obviously very good, but they could run into trouble against a good team which is healthy, experienced and unintimidated- if they don’t subject themselves to numerous penalties.

  778. robert romeo says:

    Sott,That was THE problem during the game . The Refs were ONLY looking at Roman .

  779. Scott G Hagy says:

    I’m pretty darn sure I saw a lot of holding going on by Roman’s line – most not called. And I, too got a second look. That’s my considered opinion.

  780. mcd 65 says:

    Scott G, I would expect that ref response from a Wilson follower,but it was soooooo obvious there was home cooking at its best. I just watched the game again and came to the same conclusion. BTW I like Wilsons program and wish them the best going forward and NO Im not a Roman guy I just like to watch good HS football.

  781. Scott G Hagy says:

    The refs in the Wilson/Roman game were not one-sided. Roman deserved the penalties they incurred. Roman was the better team obviously, but Wilson was missing several key players on defense which contributed to the problems they had stopping the Roman offense. Also, Wilson’s top running back got hurt almost immediately which crippled their running attack. Wilson has a largely inexperienced team this year, but I expect they will improve as the season progresses.

  782. NE PA says:

    Does Wally Hall have the best offensive mind in the game?

  783. mcd 65 says:

    @CYOBall, I just watched the game and the refs may have been the most one sided as I have ever seen. What a joke. Roman to me was the far superior team. Their speed is exceptional as well as their size.

  784. CYOBall1 says:

    @EmanD3 after 12-0 WWL didn’t move the ball without the help from the refs the rest of the game. That drive you referenced when they were down 11 was manufactured entirely by the officials. I could be mistaken but I believe that was the same drive they ran the fake punt, Roman had them stopped 4 yards shy of the first down and the ball was fumbled forward out of bounds and they were given the first down. Officials stated that the spot is marked where the ball goes out of bounds, not where forward progress stopped.
    That was just one of the bogus calls that rained down from the officials all night.
    Roman had some sloppy play at times that needs to be cleaned up however I don’t believe this game was as close as you’re making it out to be.
    WWL- 8/21 81 yards passing. 29 rushing attempts for 52 yards. They were dominated up front all night.

  785. David Mika says:

    All good. I appreciate the help!

  786. Michael D says:

    Dave…never mind….Winslow’s Twitter page listed it as scrimmage and it wasn’t recognized at Gridiron NJ site……..sorry

  787. David Mika says:

    I will double-check. On the Public Master Schedule, it showed as a scrimmage. I will let you know. Thank you!

  788. Michael D says:

    Dave…….Just saw replay of Northeast against Winslow Twp (NJ) on youtube….NE won 34-14…how sure are you that was a scrimmage? that looked like a legit game to me but there was no audio…just wondering

  789. MikeS says:

    @mcd65 I don’t quite get, North Penn he’s trying to play as many kids as possible I guess, but he really needs to play some of them both ways. @Buddy I agree, Pennridge has a bunch of kids back, although losing their Oklahoma recruit to IMG and a New coach, may have some growing pains, @Chief Red Raider, I haven’t been down in your neck of the woods in a few years, how’s Coatesville looking? D-town East & West? Any sleepers down there? Well I think Quakertown is at the same stage they were two years ago, playing lots of underclassmen, think North Penn & CBW in next two games will beat them up, at least a reality check. Depending on injuries (they aren’t overly deep) and progress of the underclassmen, 6-5 or 7-4 is what I see, 8-3 if everything breaks right. In the SOL who’s really going to beat North Penn, Pennridge? CBW? are the challengers, Upper Dublin is my favorite with Quakertown/Souderton. Souderton is interesting, 2 yrs removed from a dist 1 title & their 2 best players back after missing last year to injury. PW is the popular pick, but Cheltenham is my pick and will have at least have a say, Upper Moreland? Have a good year guys!

  790. Scott G Hagy says:

    EmanD3: Brilliant summary of the Wilson/Roman game. I only saw the second half and it was stunning to see Wilson implode. I wasn’t aware of their injury situation, but I’d never seen a Wilson team collapse like that. The game should have been close instead of the blowout it became. Wilson play calling has been dreadful in recent years, but that’s another story. Could be a tough season for the Bulldogs

  791. mcd 65 says:

    LaSalle had a huge game from their RB and Freshman QB. North Penns QB will continue to be a force this year . I agree with the NP followers that Their Defense is pretty shoddy. I do expect NP to get a lot of wins outscoring their opponents. IMO CB West outplayed Garnet Valley . Their RB is a tough character . They will be competitive this year for sure. coach Rowan is making a significant impact there.

  792. Buddy says:


    Either CBW is better than we thought (probably not), or GV lost a lot (probable). GV has been an RB factory for years.

    We’ll be able to tell more after they both play a couple of more games. Thought Pennridge would have a better game with DTE,

    but they been a powerhouse for years. Yep, we need more games in order to figure this out.

  793. EmanD3 says:

    So, a couple of things about the WWL/Roman game. RC wins 46-15!

    WWL, 7 TO’s, 4 inside their own 40!
    WWL down 11 with 5:30 left..on the RC 15 and driving. WWL QB throws a 90 yd pick six and then all H broke loose inside 5 min.
    WWL up actually 12-0 and was about to go up three touchdowns, but WR dropped a wide open ball, behind the D at the RC 20.
    WWL starting RB hurt on the 3rd offensive play of the game and on crutches for the rest of the night. His replacement was a non that will have to be fixed. WWL QB play..not good, both were ineffective. Both QB’s had basically no playing time ly, so we will give them a pass.

    Finally…the game was hard fought for 3 1/2 Q’s and not really the blowout on paper. RC is very talented and should do some post season damage in 5A. They play 2A Trinity(D3) next week, so it will be hard to tell where they actually stand.
    On the other hand WWL travels to Harrisburg to play a rebuilding CD team. If they lose that one, I’m not sure what they do going forward. Not worried about their D, but the QB/RB situation needs to improve.

  794. Chief Red Raider says:

    Yeah Mike, all polls have their flaws, I just think the one here might be the worst — is it the Pennlive one? (They charge for a lot of sports content on their site — so I’m not sure). I don’t know how good Quakertown is, but they did win. It will be interesting to see how the season unfolds. And, the games are won on the field, not on paper anyway. Enjoy the new season.

  795. NW PA says:

    Went to the Hoban/Erie Cathedral game Friday. A few thoughts. For whatever the reason Ohio high school football is overall better than Pennsylvania. The game was closer than the final score, but Hoban was clearly the better team. Prep was unable to stop Hoban’s offensive juggernaut no matter how many scores they left out. There MIGHT be 2 teams in all of PA capable of beating Hoban. And look what Ed’s did to Central Catholic. None the less Cathedral is still a top 5 team in 5A and I stand by that. Mcdowell looked really good against a tough Walsh Jesuit. I still don’t think they can beat the WPIAL champ but I stand by it being a close game.

  796. Buddy says:

    North Penn does not have a bonafide RB, plus their defense is same as last year…….terrible. They do have a passing attack that will just get better

    as the year progresses. I think NP’s team last year would have beat this year’s LS team. But that’s water under the bridge. They got to find a

    good RB plus shore up their pass defense. I think they win more then they lose, might even make the playoffs, but won’t go far.

  797. MikeS says:

    @Chief Red Raider I thought the rankings were not good from the moment I saw them, too much based on what occurred last year. PFN has Quakertown in their others to watch. Are you kidding me? They have 2 starters back, a bunch of lettermen who played a bunch in last year’s blow out wins, but only 2 starters. Then they play, North Penn game 2, CBW game 3, PW game 4, still have Souderton (2 yrs. from D1 title) Upper Dublin, & Pennridge, being a homer, I’d love to see them go 7-4, but that means they win 2 of those games and win the rest of the schedule. There were other teams that made no sense either. I still say Pennridge is going to be more than ok, yes, their stud now plays for IMG, & yes, they have a new coach, but they have talent, they are going to beat some teams they aren’t supposed to.

  798. MikeS says:

    Well, thought North Penn could take LaSalle this year, once again it was the defense that let them down. Perhaps they need to play a few kids both ways and give them a rest when necessary? Pennridge is going to continue to be an Enigma, I think the talent is there, may take them a week or two learning under the new head coach, they’re going to beat someone they are supposed to.
    Hhhhmm, Quakertown, saw them against Perk Valley which Perk Valley won in a competitive scrimmage, only 2 starters back, although a number of lettermen, due to playing time last year. I know nothing about Penn Wood, who Perk Valley beat 66 to something, original thought was long year but maybe Quakertown a little better than I thought? Garnet Valley 14-7 over CBW, not sure what to make of that one, any thoughts?

  799. Chief Red Raider says:

    The 6A pre-season rankings haven’t been good so far — 5 of the 15 teams lost last night (and I think a few that haven’t played yet probably will). The PFN rankings have done better so far.

  800. Kevin X says:

    Gavin Sidwar is a pretty good QB.

  801. Margaret says:

    With 11 guys back on defense Wally has been able to throw away the season already. Ran the hurry up offense that worked great for 2 years. I guess only his son could run it. You can’t change your offensive philosophy by leaps and bounds. You should have a system in place in your feeder towns. Instead Wally hall thinks he can re invent the wheel every 2 years with a different qb. Get flail the ball. Did you ever blitz in your life?

  802. Jc says:

    North schuylkills coaches stink. Apparently the hurry up offense could only be run by his son. The defense with 11 starters back got worse, look to who the defensive coaches are, it’s on you if you got 11 guys back and your way worse than you were. The offense, who knows, they huddle now, slow terrible change. Joey flail is a star. Get him the ball. Wally hall has tried to completely change his offense instead of keeping a system in place. Now he’s found his system, hand off, qb run, hand off, punt qb run,qb run, pass incomplete.I don’t know if chowansky is hurt but I haven’t heard his name once. Apparently they even put a different defensive tackle at fullback now as well. Why can’t u run the hurry up and still run the ball. I guess his son only could do it

  803. Jeff H. says:

    @The Joneses – Mt Lebo had a tremendous senior class last year, Bob Palko knew than when he took the job 3 yrs ago after resigning at West Allegheny, so they are not going to be as good as last year. With that being said Palko is one of the best coaches in WPIAL history with 9 district and 2 state titles on his resume, and I expect Lebo to be very competitive in WPIAL 6a, as of now I’d put them behind PCC and Seneca Valley but ahead of North Alleghany, I wouldn’t be surprised if all the WPIAL 6a teams beat up on each other and none of them make it through the regular season without a conference loss.

    Lebo is playing at 5A Gateway tonight, which is preseason #1 in the TribLive WPIAL rankings (I personally have defending champ Penn Trafford #1), that’s the game I’m going to, will be a very good test for both teams, Gateway struggled upfront last year on both the O and D lines, reports are they hit the weight room and several kids put on some muscle, will be interesting to see how they fare against Lebo in the trenches, last year in their week 0 game they got absolutely dominated in the trenches by TJ, and we knew right away they were going to struggle against the best teams in 5A as they ended up 7-4.

    @Kevin X – thanks for the link to the brackets, I had a hunch ECP was back in the west this cycle since WPIAL 5A enters the playoffs in the quarterfinals instead of the semi’s so they have to play someone that week before the semifinals against the D3 champ.

  804. Jeff H. says:

    @Sausman – I’ll take a stab at some of your questions

    1) Which teams will repeat – obviously 5 time defending champ SCA has a good chance to repeat in 2A, as does Aliquippa in 4A, although the WPIAL is loaded in 4A this year and they will get a stern test from McKeesport, who took them to OT in the WPIAL semi-finals last year and TJ, they also now have 2 time defending 3A champ Central Valley to contend with in 4A who gave them their only loss last year, so they are going to have their hands full just making it out of the WPIAL. I do like Bishop McDevitt’s chances to get back to the 4A final again.

    We know we won’t have repeat champions in 1A and 3A because both defending champs moved up a class, and I don’t see either Penn Trafford or Mt Lebo repeating, although I think PT is the still the favorite to win the WPIAL 5A title again.

    As for sleeper teams I think Bishop Canevin has a very good chance to win 1A, they play Steel High tonight in the opening game of the Peach Bowl Classic which could possibly be a preview of the 1A final, I also like Belle Vernon to win 3A, the WPIAL has owned 3A since the move to 6 classes in 2016 and Belle Vernon is the team to beat in 3A in the WPIAL, they were undefeated in 4A last year including 2 wins over TJ until they lost to Aliquippa in the 4A WPIAL final, they have one of the top rated recruits in PA in the class of 2024 in running back/safety Quinton Martin.

    As far as 6A goes, I’ve said on this board for the last several years the PIAA erred when they went from 4 classes to 6, I think 5 is the right number, but don’t expect the PIAA to ever admit they made a mistake.

  805. Jc says:

    Maybe they can cover it up like mount carmel did a few years ago. Most crooked town in the state. Where cops eat for free in eating establishments that have illegal gambling and where the town has been taking money off these establishments for over 20 years allowing the illegal activity to occur. Lol

  806. EmanD3 says:

    Yep, and now two of the “hazed” Mtown players have lawyered up! A nightmare about to unfold.

  807. D11 Matt says:

    If it was a few, they could kick those few off team but from what I am reading it’s more than a few and in that case they probably has not much of a choice than to shut it down. Tamaqua went through this end of last season. Police were involved and it wasn’t good.

  808. EmanD3 says:

    Not a fan of taking down a whole program for a few bad apples. What about seniors that might have had college scholarships? What about all of the Middletown cheerleaders, band members, plus food vendors that help with fund raising? Are they going to refund all of the advertisers who have placed ads in the programs for the entire year? For the record, I’m not from Middletown, but don’t like the decision..just my opinion

  809. Harry says:

    From the news reports, police officials have all the video and there are far more kids involved than originally thought. PIAA has stated any transfers must sit 4 weeks before beginning practice and any transfer will be on a case by case basis. Also ANYONE who is involved will NOT be eligible for this transfer process.

  810. Foleman says:

    Let the transfers begin! Bamm Appleby Middletown’s QB has transferred to Steel HIgh, it looks like he will have to sit out the 1st 3 games of the year, No idea if he will be eligible for the playoffs. Middletown has approximately 60 kids on the team, A video is out there documenting the hazing, will the AD at Middletown let the AD of another school who was involved in the Hazing if a player wants to transfer out? Does District 3 get involved in a situation like this? Appleby, according to the Athletic Director at Middletown “was in good standing” How does this affect the playoff power points/seedings now that Middletown has cancelled the season and 9 teams have to find a last minute team to schedule at the last minute which is next to impossible now.

  811. Harry says:

    From WGAL TV News:

    More footage of the on-going investigation into the Middletown Area High School Football hazing incident has been obtained.

    In a letter from the Superintendent on August 24, 2022, they say a video shows more involvement from students then originally thought.

    Due to the new found information, a decision to cancel the 2022 football season has been made.

    The video has been shared with law enforcement, and they will continue to work on the investigation. Any student found to be involved will face disciplinary action, the letter continues to say any staff who were found to ignore the hazing will also face disciplinary action.

    The Superintendent reiterated that this will not be tolerated. There was mention of putting programs in place to avoid this from happening in the future.

    The administration is working to plan other opportunities for the cheer leading team and marching band as this cancellation will also impact their season.

  812. Kevin X says:

    Welp, there are now 10 more open dates on this season’s calendar as Middletown just cancelled its football season due to a recent hazing issue. You D3 guys want to chime in??

  813. The Joneses says:

    @sausmann9 “and supporters of private schools.. LOL.. Well done. I like the SJP call 8o)

    Was Mt. Leebo a one hit wonder or do you think they’ll be back again this year?

  814. sausmann9 says:

    Good Day ladies, gentlemen, and supporters of private schools, lol

    Happy 2022 Football Season and safe travels throughout the season to you all!!!

    Okay a few quick questions just before the start of our season.

    1. Which teams will repeat as state champions?

    2. Who is your “sleeper” team for the season (who might win a championship that we didn’t expect)?

    3. Which district will have the most state titles for this season?

    4. If you had the power to do so, where would YOU have the state championships? why?

    5. If you had the power to do so, would you keep or get rid of the 6A classification?

    Upset of the week – St Joes Prep beats St Thomas Aquinas in overtime!!! lol, just kidding. I’ll go with Emmaus over Freedom in Bethlehem.

  815. Kevin X says:

    ACL I understand.

    Believe he was also playing defense when he hurt his shoulder/arm against Wyo in their playoff game last year.

  816. David Mika says:

    Kevin X I was at the scrimmage. He was playing defense and came down awkwardly and was limping right after the play.

  817. Kevin X says:

    This really really sux:

    Via Twitter:


    Bad news for football in the area. Sources have confirmed Scranton Prep and Penn State commit RB London Montgomery suffered an injury on Saturday and most likely will be out for the season.”

  818. Kevin X says:

    Don’t know if these are 100% official, but this is what I’m going with until I hear otherwise……

    Yes, ECP is back in the west. Rematch with Imhotep in the 5A Championship Game (they just can’t get enough of each other) 🙂

  819. Jeff H. says:

    @NW PA – agree ECP will be very good as usual, given their schedule I think they will lose a couple of games but would be surprised if they lost all 4 you mentioned, I’m not sure yet if the brackets are the same as the last 2 years with them being in the “east”, the WPIAL 5A champ enters the state tournament in the quarterfinal round this year and not the semi-finals like the last several years, so I’m thinking they may be slated to play the WPIAL winner in the quarters and not Imhotep, like they played TJ all those years in 4A.

    I am not as confident as you are with McDowell giving the WPIAL winner a good game in the quarter finals, a lot can obviously change over the course of the season but right now I’d make the WPIAL champ a 3 score favorite in that game.

    Anyone know yet how the brackets are set up this year, when does the PIAA release them?

  820. NW Pa says:

    A couple quick thoughts from the great Northwest. Erie Cathedral looks good as always, but they have a tough schedule. Look for them to loose to Hoban this week and probably Benedictine and maybe Mcdowell and Football North. They will still be a top 5 team in 5A despite the losses. Mcdowell has a great offensive line but are no threat to the WPIAL champ. Cathedral should cruise to the quarter final where they probably loose to Tep. Mcdowell should also make it the quarter finals where they loose a close game to the WPIAL champ.

  821. EmanD3 says:

    @ Scott & Kevin X…thx for the info, and yes I agree, it’s tough to judge these scrimmages..was just curious. I’m sure, Wilson, Wyo, NP and Coatesville will be post season bound, when it’s all said and done. Wyo’s weekly schedule will be a bit tougher since they have joined the LL league, but I still think they could run the table again. If Wilson beats Roman and CD in the first two weeks, I will have a better feel for them. They lost a lot of O from last years team. I’m hoping 0-2 doesn’t happen. I have a feeling they will have to lean on the D for a few weeks to start

  822. FridayKnightLights says:

    Was not at the NP-Wyomissing scrimmage but have heard different things from different people. First off, NP offense, as expected looked very good. A lot of athletes and strong. Second, The defense, which is the key to their success, was ho hum, especially against the run. However, from what I heard, linemen didn’t play both ways so any O linemen who might start or play on d line, only played on O. Third, WYO runs a wing t from what i was told. Highly unlikely NP actually game planned for that and was fairly solid against it, all things considered. Fourth, NP has athletes outside and limited any passing attack. Fifth, La Salle players and staff were in attendance so NP did not want to show much. They even switched jersey numbers. Some other notes, Yazeed Haynes, receiver committed to GA from NP looks the real deal. Caused problems every time he was targeted. All in all, NP will have to play strong defense to reach the levels they expect. Still the same story.

  823. Jc says:

    North schuylkill vs danville ns looked terrible. Offense should be behind defense with 11 guys back on defense but north schuylkill has let the wally hall Era go by with no defensive philosophy, no energy, no toughness. Somehow it became ok to give up 15 a game. They have cost ns in an era of great teams and great players by just being average every year on defense. Here would have been a good idea, get the geists back to coach defense. Let them toughen these kids up. This ain’t shendo wally.

  824. Kevin X says:

    @ EmanD3

    Yes, I took myself over to the NP/Wyo scrimmage this morning. Don’t know what I can tell you (or anyone else), as I put just about zero credence in these scrimmages to predict the future, really there to familiarize myself with NP for when things get real Friday night against LaSalle, which will probably be their stiffest test until the D1 6A quarter or semi finals.

    It is a shame that Wyo is not playing SC this year. That would have been worth the drive up to the Reading area on a fall Saturday afternoon.

  825. Scott G Hagy says:

    Wilson/Coatsville was “even” Coatesville scored on a long run on first scrimmage play, but that was it. The 2-Q game play ended 0-0. Both teams had chances to score, but neither did. Wilson’s pass coverage was shaky at times, but so was Coatesville’s Wilson’s QB had some nice runs and Coatsville had some good running plays. Difficult to tell what the score would have been in a real 4 Q game.

  826. EmanD3 says:

    Anyone at the Wilson/Coatesville or Wyomissing/North Penn scrimmage this am?

    Wilson/Coatesville should have been fairly even, I would guess. And although Wyo graduates about a 1/4 of what NP does, they are loaded again this year, even after losing some big names from last years state final team.

  827. MikeS says:

    Back from PV-Q-town scrimmage, 2-2 when I left on last set of offense/defense, starting special teams, I thought Q-town looked better than I anticipated, a little bigger than I thought they would be, with only 2 starters back. PV with 12 starters back, I thought had the overall edge in the scrimmage, as their offense with 7 back looked a little better. I was talking to a father (of one of their DL starters) and former coach at PV, and he felt they would be very competitive within the PAC. Q-town probably a tad better than my original thinking, PV is going to have a solid year. So there is the 1st scrimmage report, looking to hearing from many many more.

  828. Michael D Smoll says:

    @pygymy Well I suspect that North Penn-Wyomissing will be a good challenge for both, I don’t know alot about Wyomissing, I do know that North Penn should (key word-should) be pretty good, but am looking for some parts to be ready to play LaSalle next week. I have North Penn 1st-Pennridge 2nd (close) in their division of SOL> I hope to be at the Quakertown-Perk Valley scrimmage, & as I’ve said Quakertown is in total rebuild mode with only 2 starters back. That said I was told their JV-Freshman teams last year had a total of 1 loss. Is there enough there to be a contender again?? Probably not…. but…

  829. pygymy says:

    Wyomissing scrimmages North Penn on Saturday, 08/21/22 at 10:00 AM at North Penn. I would be interested on anyone’s observations about both teams.

  830. FridayKnightLights says:


    Year of the Knight? I wouldn’t say it can’t be, certainly in D1. But the fact is they haven’t played defense since 2016. Yes, that was a terrific team, second only to the 03 champs in NP history in my opinion. But, in my opinion Beck seems to have changed philosophy toward playing less players two ways. The problem is, many of the best athletes were on offense and not playing as much defense. Last year Khalani Eaton and Levi Carroll were the two best offensive players. Neither played defense. In 2016 they had Ricky Johns, a star at receiver, at the SS spot with Owen Thomas, a star at TE at MLB. Both went D1. Also on that team the #2 receiver, Henley, started at corner and went D1. All three went D1 as defensive players, not on offense. Heck, the 03 state champs started the QB, Hearns, at corner. Play your best athletes regardless. They do return Cody at LB with Mangine at the SS spot. With the top two receivers playing corner they have athletes on the outside. The Dawes kid is coming back after missing through injury last year at MLB/DE. He played significantly at D End as a freshman which is rare at NP. If they can turn the corner defensively they can be major players beyond just D1. But it ALL rests on the defense. The offense should be powerful.

  831. MikeS says:

    @FridayKnightLights Yeah about as I remembered from last year, I had it coming down to North Penn or Pennridge, but that was before their Oklahoma Commit went to IMG, he was a two way beast for them, playing LB, FB and TE. Still Pennridge is your main in league competition. Would have loved seeing Quakertown play North Penn last year, this year that game should be over by half time as Quakertown has all of 2 kids coming back, from what I was told their JV & Freshmen teams were very good, but way too many holes to be playing North Penn the second game of the year. I think Quakertown will be ok in league. I have North Penn & Pennridge as the two favorites on their side. Pennridge has a ton coming back but have a new coach (thus the unknown) and the loss of their Stud. So is it Knight Time?

  832. FridayKnightLights says:

    @Mike Smoll

    Been a while since I posted on here. Saw your question about the East. NP “should” be very good. Key word SHOULD. 3 starters return on the o line including center and dual 300 LB starting tackles. RB is little known since Eaton ruled the roost last year but showed burst and physicality when he did get the ball. Listed over 200 and I’ve heard good things. As you mentioned, WR committed to Georgia and they return their #2 receiver from last year as well who had a very solid year. All this to go with Zellt returning as a 3 year starter at QB. Defense remains the question. The receivers are slated to start at corners from what I’ve heard. They have a beast who missed last year for injury. He played lot at d end as a freshmen but was slated to be a FB and MLB last year before injury. 240 lbs. If the defense is right they are a force. IF.

  833. mcd 65 says:

    Also, my definition of committal offer is if a program would accept the player right away if he decided on that school .Some colleges and Universities throw out offers to well over 100 high school players but will not accept a committment except for those at the top of their recruiting list.

  834. mcd 65 says:

    @ Bill, Roman has at least 5 players with committal offers ,with the rest not sure. The fact is that they have many talented players on their roster. As you pointed out they have yet to put all this talent together which to me is a coaching and leadership issue. Their opener against Wilson should be an indicator if they have finally jelled or,stay in the dumps .

  835. Bill says:

    Remember @Wpialguy, offers are committal and non-committal. It will be interesting to see if those offers materialize given their wins and performance the past few years. They are a young team with alot to be excited about. But they have not really produced on the field. I had said in a previous comment that it just does not add up, or maybe I and other observers are missing something. The coach could be trying to help his kids collect non-committal offers to promote the program. It is the same as an 8th grader getting an “offer.” No college can offer admission without a HS transcript, hence the offer is non-committal. A roster with that much legitimate talent should be more than a 3 – 5 win team every year. Maybe this year will be different. But another season like last year would leave alot of questions. If the talent is really there, why only a few wins? Or are kids talents being embellished to college coaches to help gain exposure…which will hurt the program down the road. They are young from what I have heard, so maybe this year the maturity takes over and they do some major damage on the field.

  836. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin that’s great news.. Looking forward to it.

  837. Kevin X says:

    Wow, even a pre-season show on the 19th!!! (WPHT 1210 AM Philly High School Football Scoreboard Show)

    Sorry, just got lazy, a little public service announcement via cut and paste job from Twitt

    “Kickoff is coming. The @WPHTScores show begins on Aug. 19 with our pre-season show from 10-12 pm
    And then, we are every week until Thanksgiving on Friday night on @1210WPHT and the @AudacyCorp app!”

  838. David Mika says:

    They are 5A this year

  839. Wpialguy says:

    Have noticed many players on Roman Catholic getting offers recently. Are they 6A?

  840. EmanD3 says:

    WWL has home opener against Roman Catholic on 8/26. I’m hearing RC might be a sleeper this year. Any word on their team? Although Wilson lost their QB, RB and most of their OL…they still have a few studs returning including Cam Jones. D should be solid. Should be an interesting game and litmus test for both teams. Then WWL heads to CD in week two…so it could be a tough road ahead to get back to D3 final.

  841. Route 54 says:

    @D11 Matt. I was at the NL SCA game. I left at halftime. I wasn’t impressed at all with NL performance. Clearly put, NL didn’t look enthused to be there. They looked completely tired, hands on hips, letting others make the tackles.

  842. Jc says:

    D11 Matt I know a Homer when I can smell a Homer. When you say they have almost everyone back, but they lose there qb, rb and top wr and u think they r not gonna skip a beat your insane. There offense clearly will not be as explosive. There defense stunk against anyone who was good. My guess is North Schuylkill is a definite loss and notre dame is probably a loss. They can go 8-2. But I can easily see them go 5-5. They will probably make districts, probably win districts. They won’t win a state title because there defense stinks. If anybody on there defense made all state I question it. Check out there defensive numbers against nw Lehigh, notre dame, North Schuylkill and Southern, they were slightly worse than whatever horrible word u can come up with. And your gonna say but look at how good those teams were, exactly dim wit Anybody good they play the El matador defense. So if a guy plays I’d look less into there 15 games last year and more into the 4 that mattered. And wutu the expansion in classes to 6 the class a state title almost doesn’t matter. When there were 4 classes it was less watered down. With 6 class a is pathetic. Good luck on winning that

  843. D11 Matt says:

    Also JC…..NL went 7-3 last year in regular season and still were top seed because they played a very good 3A schedule. They rolled once they dropped to 2A in playoffs until southern (who also beat everyone else by mercy rule).

  844. D11 Matt says:

    @JC ….Do you even know what you are talking about with NL?? In dist 11 A there is 6 teams and 4 get in. They are only team that plays a mostly 3A schedule. They could win 5 and get in and maybe a top 2 seed with points…. Also when you return an entire line and TE that played 15 games last year and the fullback who was all state at DE and two athletes (one of which threw 3 tds as WR passes last year who will be QB this year) you will be very good. Yes they lost three very good players but return 8/11 started on both sides. Also add two players that got big time playing time and that’s 10 players that played 15 games in a AA playoff environment. They will be top 10 maybe top 5 in A this year.

  845. Jeff H. says:

    I will correct myself, actually Bishop Canevin and Steel High play the opening game of the 2 day Peach Bowl Classic at Chambersburg in 3 weeks. Ron Coursey is the new AD at Chambersburg after previously being at Woodland Hills, he was the mastermind behind the WPIAL vs. everyone showcase at the Wolvarena the last several years, and now he’s establishing the same type of kickoff classic at Chambersburg.. Its too bad he took his show on the road because I got to see Imhotep vs. PCC and Harrisburg vs. Pine Richland among other top notch games in my backyard on opening weekend, the boys from Erie Prep also made a few appearances at the Wolvarena.

    The Bishop McDevitt-Imhotep game on Saturday at 5:30 looks like a great matchup and the most intriguing game of the 6 scheduled. If WH was better I might be tempted to take the 3 hour drive to watch them play Wm Penn followed by the McDevitt game, it was a lot nicer to see intra-district games like this that were a 10 minute drive!!

    What other big time matchups are everyone looking forward to on opening weekend?

  846. Jc says:

    No Lehigh lost there qb, rb, wr, heart and soul of the offense. There defense stinks and they will lose 3 games again this year. Move down to A will help but there would be a chance they wouldn’t even make districts with 4 losses. They don’t Play even a little defense.Parkland, Nazareth, Northhampton, freedom, becha,, acc, Wilson, Bangor, southern Lehigh, blue mountain, east Stroudsburg south, Pottsville, Notre dame, north Schuylkill, Palmerton, minersville, pen argyl, Williams valley. Tri valley, Northern Lehigh, marian catholic

  847. Wpialguy says:

    When it comes to officials… i mean.. they have to show up at what? 4:00-5:00? And they won’t leave until probably 10:00. That’s on top of their normal job. Add in the commute times and you’re probably talking 6 hours of work for maybe $70-$80. Is it worth the time and stress to work 6 more hours? Add in todays gas prices and you run into trouble. I understand it’s for the kids, but One thing about officiating nowadays is i believe with tv and social media people want officials to be perfect. People don’t want to officiate because they’re terrified of messing up. In today’s world there’s always video evidence and it’s very easy for people to come into an uproar. I’m someone who has thought about becoming an official, but anytime i honk about it. What they need to do is have better recruitment programs or offer referee certification as a college elective or something at various universities. College kids looking for extra money could take a class and be ready to officiate on Friday nights. That would take cooperation between the universities though. One final idea would be to go to various d2 or d3 football programs and find players graduating that would be interested. People aren’t going to come to you. You have to go get them.

  848. D1 Lifer says:

    Kevin X…Not to get deep into it but I have firsthand knowledge of the officiating issues….Official shortages definitely not a D10 thing, it’s National, in most sports. Numbers aren’t dropping they are falling off a cliff. There isn’t the same volume of new officials joining the ranks, which makes maybe older, or less capable officials do these games. MS games in every sport boys and girls get cancelled due lack of officials. The people that assign the games are putting in whoever is available, no matter skill or experience. It’s not their fault…working with what they have. Poor pay, amount of time officials are at games for the pay, poor behavior from spectators, coaches, players…the list goes on. Not a lot of guys interested, and when you can go out and do 2 kids games on a Friday night and make more then a Friday night Varsity game in the same or less time where do you think guys will go if their main focus is financial? It’s only going to get be prepared for more Thurs/Sat games in the very near future.

  849. WpialGuy says:

    Central Catholic opens with St Edwards Ohio on August 26th at Tom Benson Hall of Fame stadium. Would be shocked if they could keep it within 30. St Ed’s and Ohio high school football just seems miles ahead of PA at the moment.

  850. Michael Smoll says:

    Well got a feel for the WPIAL but not much from the East, who’s the Players in the LV, Parkland, Easton, etc? What’s going on with Coatesville, the Downingtowns and others? North Penn has the kid going to Georgia and is normally good, Pennridge lost their stud (Oklahoma recruit to IMG) but have a Ton coming back, Upper Dublin, PW, CBW? Quakertown huge rebuilding year, but may surprise. Up North have no clue? Help guys is 3 weeks til kickoff

  851. Kevin X says:

    I’ve been seeing a bunch of Tweets coming out of District 10 about games being moved from Friday night to Saturday due to lack of officials. Anybody know if any games in the east are being moved from Friday night to Thursday or Saturday due to a lack of available officials?? Seems for right now its only a District 10 issue.

  852. Jeff H. says:

    @WPIALguy – agree with all of your analysis, particularly with McKeesport being a big factor is 4A. Bobby Boyd is a very sold RB and they bring a lot back from last year, 4A is loaded in the WPIAL with McKeesport moving down a few yrs ago and Aliquippa/CV up, for quite awhile it was TJ and everybody else in 4A.

    @D11 Matt – agree 1A is pretty open with several contenders, as WPIALguy said Bishop Canevin is the favorite in the WPIAL, they return quite a few starters from their team that lost to Redbank Valley in the state semi-finals last year, they have a game with Steel High in early September that could potentially be a preview of the state final and will be a good measuring stick for both teams.

  853. Wpialguy says:

    In 5A things get very interesting. As of now I’d say Penn Hills is the favorite, but after that there is probably 6 or 7 teams that could compete. Penn Trafford will be big up front again but they lose their main athletes. Moon graduated 20/22 starters. Gateway will have athletes but weakness up front. Bethel Park, upper st Clair, pine Richland will be strong teams as well. Should be a very very competitive class.

  854. Wpialguy says:

    Wpial also had a school or 2 drop from AA TO A. I would say watch out for Laurel in A. They were a wpial semi finalist in 2A and drop down. They are the Laurel out of Lawrence County. Bishop Canevin should remain the team to beat in the WPIAL class A though.

  855. D11 Matt says:


    Watch my alma mater Northern Lehigh in A. They were a state semi finalist in AA (losing to Southern….not surprising haha). They drop to A but don’t play a single A school. Mostly 3A (north Schuylkill, Notre Dame) and rival NW Lehigh who is 4A. It’s a very good AAA schedule like they played last year. Went 7-3 and then went on a run in 2A playoffs. They return entire Oline, TE, FB and two athletes who will play QB and RB this year. And return 7 on defense. They should be top 5 in A east with Steelton, Old Forge, Canton. The schedule should prepare them again. A in my opinion statewide is wide open. Last year’s champ moved to AA.

  856. Wpialguy says:

    I am very high on McKeesport as a surprise team in 4A. They should have beat Aliquippa in the WPIAL semis last year. Took them to overtime and would’ve won but missed a 20 yard field goal. The problem is 4A in the WPIAL is very deep. Aliquippa, Central Valley, Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport all very good. I expect Central Valley to take a bit of a step back. They lost some talent. TJ will be massive upfront again. Quips are once again loaded.

  857. Michael Smoll says:

    Pre-season Rankings will be coming out when, we’re just a tad more than 3 weeks til the start of the season. Who’s the shakers and movers, who are going to be the surprises?

  858. mcd 65 says:

    Yes, Tep is 5 A

  859. Wpialguy says:

    Is Imhotep still 5A?

  860. D11 Matt says:

    Happy August 1st everyone! That means we are officially in the same month as the start of football season! Only 26 days away from games that count!

  861. mcd 65 says:

    @ Austin, I also heard Shabbaz transferred to Roman thats 9 now.

  862. Hitman66 says:

    Some people aren’t able to access the PA Sportsboard Link, so I’ve UPDATED this with the more direct “Statewide & National” Link:

    Just wanted to share a few links where the ongoing PA HS Football State Champion Project can be viewed: We now have updated grids from 1890-1934!

    Go To: “Statewide & National” Section

  863. Foleman says:

    WPIAL Guy, In the East Wyomissing in 3A is loaded once again, not as deep as last year but their lines will average 275 lbs a man, they also return their QB, tailback and 2 headhunters at linebacker, Berks Catholic, now down in 3A is also loaded with talent, whoever wins 3A, IMHO between those 2 schools will represent the East. In 4A McDevitt is once again loaded and will probably be headed for a rematch with the Quips.

  864. Hitman66 says:

    Just wanted to share a few links where the ongoing PA HS Football State Champion Project can be viewed: We now have updated grids from 1890-1934!

    Go To: “Statewide & National” Section

  865. Kevin X says:

    UGH!!! Correction in my just posted post:

    *basketball playoffs, not baseball!! (guess that’s what you get when you try to multitask while watching the Phils/baseball)

  866. Kevin X says:

    @ Dr. Sheldon Cooper, aka Austin

    Yes, that was sarcasm.

    @ FrankG

    Yeah, I’m with you. This whole transfer thing is a mess. Seems like unless it’s a 100% obvious athletic transfer, they can find an excuse or loophole to play the whole season. The more I try to understand it and figure it out, the more confused I get. Just this past post season in the baseball playoffs, saw a team get disqualified from states for playing a transfer in a playoff game, another team had to forfeit the majority of their games due to a transfer who was deemed “ineligible,” yet they proceed to play in the state playoffs, sans the player in question, and still go on to win a state title, and a third scenario where another school had an obvious and known transfer, no issues (that I know of, so guess everything was on the up and up), and go on to win a state championship with said player playing. Oh, and all of these 3 situations involved PCL teams 🙂

  867. D11 Matt says:

    @Wpialguy….. 2A- Southern (5 time defending champions are heavy favorites lol.

  868. Wpialguy says:

    As of now i see the wpial being favorites to win 3A and 4A state championships. The other classes are all tossups to me. Once i see what the teams have.

  869. mcd 65 says:

    Austin, Kevin was jokng with the co-oping statement for sure. I dont read anything that was over stated about Woods issues. All those facts you mention are true and have been stated before. Yes they have some good players returning including Gardener who I agree is a stud, but they are far weaker than before the transfers occurred. I would still say they are not a contender now and surely would have been if all this wouldnt have happened.

  870. Austin says:

    Lot of talk about Wood on this message board. Most of it is overblown. They’ve lost some really talented players after their coaching fiasco. Most notably Temple commit LB Tyrese Whitaker, Michigan commit LB Semaj Bridgeman, 2023 LB Khadir Rowe (D1 Offered), 2023 RB James Bermudez, 6’5 2024 QB Mekhi Wharton, 6’5 OL Kevin Towns (D1 Offered) and a pair of talented 2025 CBs Dymere Durham (Imhotep) and Bryce Williams (Souderton). Yes, these losses hurt, but Wood is still returning a great core of 2023s headlined by Power 5 DE Eric Garner (the best player in the state if you ask me), Clemson commit Markus Dixon, fast rising 2024 OL Kevin Heywood, and many other kids I’d consider shoe-ins to eventually play high level college football at Division 2 and 3 universities. The notion that they’d have to Co-op with a public school is silly, they’re returning most of the team that took State Runner Up Saint Joe’s Prep to the brink of the District 12 championship. Their new head coach is very old school from what I’ve heard, I’m not surprised that Wood Football is not super active on social media or Maxpreps. I’ll admit I think their original schedule with Walp at the helm was a little ambitious for this group. Pre-flurry of transfers I’d say they had a good chance to battle Imhotep in the D12 title in Class 5A and make a deep state playoff run, now I would predict they perform similarly to the last 2-3 years of Wood Football, an unfairly judged .500 team that plays one of the toughest schedules in the state regardless of class.

  871. FrankG says:

    The PIAA says that if a student played a sport in 10th grade and then transferred, the student cannot play in the postseason unless it’s a different sport. However schools can appeal on the following grounds:

    What reasons can a District Committee consider a waiver?
     Change of residence necessitated by Employment / Military reassignment
     School initiated – Administrative transfer / Court ordered transfer
     Demonstrable change of income or resources
     Court approved family separation
     Other considerations on a case by case basis

    That last item, of course, is very vague.

    Curiously, they say a waiver can’t be given on these grounds: “Transfers to address academic, developmental, spiritual and/or social reasons.” I would think transfers undertaken for such reasons, IF GENUINE, should not make a student ineligible for post-season play. Looks like the PIAA created a mess.

  872. Foleman says:

    D1 Lifer, not so sure that is the case anymore. Out here in District 3 Kids that transferred their Sr year into Wilson, Governor Mifflin and Berks Catholic were somehow eligible to play in the playoffs. Anyway, the rest of the PIAA should cry foul if any of these transfers into Imhotep are eligible to play in the playoffs. This reminds me of several years ago when TEP had about a dozen players transfer in from all over the place when they one their only State Championship by crushing everyone. That was the final straw and the PIAA finally took action implementing the transfer rules and competition factor.

  873. D1 Lifer says:

    I may be mistaken but I’m pretty sure that if you transfer after the start of your sophomore year you are not eligible for postseason play in any of the following years. If that’s correct I don’t see the point in making a move. And I can’t imagine the team would be like ok you play our 1st 12 games but then let’s put in your backup for playoffs.

  874. Kevin X says:

    Wood may have to petition the PIAA to create an emergency co-op with Tennant or Hatboro Horsham (might not be too far fetch with H-H who had to forfeit a bunch of games last year due to low numbers).

  875. mcd 65 says:

    WHEN WILL IT END ? Another player from Wood just transfered to Imhotep This one a CB .Thats 6 that I know of so far.

  876. The Joneses says:

    @mcd65 & Kevin on this one the Mekhi and his dad gave Wood every opportunity to make it work. It started when Wood was operating without an OC for months. The rest just spiraled. It’s his junior year and ultimately he had to take matters into his own hands. This one was not for academic reasons and it was not a rash decision.

  877. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin, Another very talented player gone. Wood could have been a real threat this year in 5 A. Now, they will be fortunate to win a few games. What in the heck occurred over there to degrade the program so much. I still hope they can be competitive but have my doubts for sure.

  878. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Saw recently that another one of your Wood guys, 6’5″ jr. QB Mekhi Wharton transferred to Neumann Goretti (guessing you may already be aware of this). Guess N-G had a roster spot as earlier N-G’s WR Yazeed Haynes transferred to North Penn. Haynes originally committed to Rutgers, decommitted, then committed to Penn State, and now has decommitted from Penn State. Good to see that the PIAA transfer portal is alive and well and that these top level recruits are 1000% committed!!!

  879. mcd 65 says:

    It would be nice if Wood would update their roster and coaching staff on Max preps. They continue to have Walp as head coach and have 156 players listed on their roster.Oh yeah, they have still included the players that have transferred and many of last years graduates. Come on coach get with it.

  880. Kevin X says:

    Looking thru some schedules this weekend, saw that Archbishop Wood, Neumann Goretti and Bishop Shanahan all don’t have a first week (August 26-27) game. I would think 2 of 3 of these Philly Archdiocesan schools would get together for a game, assuming that they are interested in playing that first week. I’d assume Wood would be especially active in this possibility, as they only have 7 games on their 2022 schedule at the moment (per their school’s website). Anybody else looking for a first week game?? Getting late…….

  881. Ryan says:

    @ Michael Smoll – while I agree with you about the Catholic league kids maybe getting more looks, if you’re good the colleges will find you. With camps and social media being a driving force now.

    I know many kids who were invited to be on sidelines of the top tier schools but choose to stay at there local HS

  882. Wpialguy says:

    Pittsburgh Central Catholic has been raiding Canon Mac and Peters Twp here in the west. They are both about 45 minute commute to the city. Canon Mac is perennial struggling program. Supposedly they’ve had good middle school teams but it doesn’t look like it’ll matter if they’re raiders by PCC.

    I’ll have to post my season projections here relatively soon.

  883. Wpialguy says:

    PIAA changing the way they count next cycle again. Said they are going back to counting every student in schools and not the 10% rule for non traditional students. I could see the wpial 6A class benefitting from this as a few of the more rural schools won’t have to count just 10% of their vocational school students.

  884. David Mika says:

    On August 1st

  885. D11 Matt says:

    Hey Dave,

    When will the team previews start?


  886. Michael D Smoll says:

    mcd 65 Wood is not that far, maybe 10 miles, several years ago several Quakertown kids made the hike to Wood, and Pennridge is 8 miles closer. Kids in the SOL don’t get as many looks from the colleges as kids from the Catholic league do, so there is always that benefit.

  887. Michael Smoll says:

    mcd 65, Actually Wood (about the same as CB West)is only a 8-10 mile drive and LC is about 5-6 (in Lansdale same as North Penn) Both those schools are very much in play. I know a young man who as an 8th grader was invited down as a sideline guest to both Malvern Prep & LaSalle, who will be a 9th grader at North Penn this year.

  888. mcd 65 says:

    @ Michael Smoll, I agree that Pennridge would be a very strong team with Picciotti this year. IMO there would beno advantage for player transfers to Lansdale Catholic and Wood and Lasalle are a hike for sure. Wood could certainly use some replacements for their 5 solid player transfers.

  889. Michael Smoll says:

    Kids from around the SOL are getting looks from the Catholic League, know of 3 of the top freshmen (1 from North Penn, 1 from Pennridge and 1 from Souderton) who had visits to a few of them and are considering the switch.

  890. Michael Smoll says:

    mcd 65 Yeah, I actually read the article after I posted, but I suspected IMG. Pennridge had/has a pretty loaded team coming back, with a number of solid returning vets, there is always the catholic league, Wood comes to mind, as does LC. Pennridge with Picciotti would have been favorites to unseat North Penn, even without him a strong maybe. Both Wood and Lansdale Catholic are right on Pennridge’s doorstep.

  891. mcd 65 says:

    @ Michael Small, I did hear Picciocotti will attend IMG this year . Where would any other players from pennridge transfer to ??

  892. Michael Smoll says:

    Just heard from one of my old coaches, that Oklahoma Recruit Phil Picciotti, will not be playing his last year at Pennridge, but is going to a Florida school for his Senior year. Rumors are a couple other of the top Pennridge players may be going elsewhere also. Anyone able to fill me in on any of this?

  893. Kevin X says:

    @ Harry

    What, no Chico Bail Bonds???

    Seriously, I think it will be very much to do about nothing. 99% + of PA high school athletics it will not affect whatsoever. Who will be, your 5 star highly touted kids, mostly from urban areas, and (I got to be careful here), your very attractive extrovert female athletes with care free parents.

  894. D11 Matt says:

    I’m guessing Southern will be playing 4A in 4 years if it’s just based on success now. If this was in place five years ago they would be 5A.

  895. Harry says:

    Wow….um…so what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

    Nearly three years after the college sports world changed forever with the legalization of name, image and likeness compensation, the PIAA is following suit.

    At the PIAA board meeting on Wednesday afternoon, the association approved on first reading an NIL policy that will allow student-athletes to profit off their image, per Bob Greenburg of Sports Radio 96.7 FM.

    The policy, which will still require two more readings to become official, will give athletes avenues—with stipulations—to make money off of commercial endorsements and promotional activities.

    “We really need to probably get ahead of this and address it and put some parameters in place to guide students and their families so that they’re educated and they know what they’re getting into,” PIAA Assistant Executive Director Melissa Mertz said, according to

    Athletes cannot wear their school uniforms in any of these promotions, and may not make reference to the PIAA or their school or team name. Boosters, coaches and alums also cannot provide or negotiate any NIL deals.

    Certain products are not permitted to be endorsed by athletes, including adult entertainment, alcohol, controlled substances, opioids, casinos, gambling and weapons, firearms or ammunition.

    WGAL also reports that the PIAA will hire a company to educate athletes about tax laws and help them avoid “being taken advantage of” by companies.

    With two more readings required, it is unlikely this policy takes effect until 2023.

  896. Kevin X says:

    @ Matt

    I really think its just an ending of a co-op like my follow-up posted below noted. At least I hope so. Sorry if I jumped the gun on that one.

    Well they did it. Past on the first reading the elimination of the transfer clause as being part of competition formula for school promotion to the next class level. Strictly will be on a points basis unless they come up with something else. I understand that Southern Columbia will be appealing this development and are already in contact with Governor Wolf’s staff 🙂

    PA high school sports are inching closer to being NIL friendly. Needs to pass two more readings. Wonder if they will offer NFTs as well.

  897. Matt says:

    If GW is disbanding football, that is a shame for the Pub and Philly football as a whole. GW has a great legacy and many times was the class of the Pub and City as whole. Hopefully it is temporary.


  898. Kevin X says:

    Just a follow-up to my GW question/issue. Think I just read it too quickly and incorrectly. Looks like just a termination of a co-op agreement??

    “District XII – George Washington and Swenson Arts & Technology High Schools to terminate football”

  899. Kevin X says:

    PIAA meeting tomorrow. Saw one of the items that will be discussed is the elimination of the transfer clause in the completion formula. Go to a straight points system for promotion. Also expanding the competition formula to other sports (only applied to football and boys and girls hoops at the moment). Also saw that George Washington HS in Philly is looking to disband their football program. Thought GW was one of the larger, legacy public schools in Philly. Maybe you PPL/D12 guys can expand on that.


    What are they suppose to do?? WPIAL/D7 only have 6 6A schools. I’m thinking they are lucky that the PIAA is still allowing them to conduct their own district playoff at this point. They should be in a “western” 8 team subdivision with D6,D8, and D10. Times and demographics change, not always the way people want them too or can control.

  900. Wpialguy says:

    Wpial getting screwed with the new state brackets as 5 and 6a games won’t be able to be played at Heinz field because they’re entering state brackets a week early. I guess screwed is a strong word but it stinks not having the two biggest classes at Heinz field. This is what hurts tradition and high school football attendance.

  901. Foleman says:

    Harry, This hire looks like politics at its best on Myers returning to coaching. I hope that Twin Valley crossed the T’S and Dotted the I’s on Olsen’s termination especially after leading TV to their best season in 15 years in his only season as Head Coach. Myers is going to find out quickly that the talent he had at Middletown is light years ahead of what he’s going to have at Twin Valley.

  902. Harry says:

    It looks like Brett Myers is about to be back in business as a high school football coach.

    The former Middletown Blue Raiders coach is slated to be named head coach at Twin Valley pending board approval on July 18 according to Paul Roberts of

    Roberts said that Myers will continue to work as the assistant principal at Twin Valley Middle School.

  903. Foleman says:

    Kris Olsen dismissed as Head Football Coach at Twin Valley. This is really weird, Olsen stated he has no idea why he was dismissed, but with heat acclimation practices starting in 30 days and Olsen leading TV to their 1st winning season since 2007 and a playoff birth, their has to be more to the story. Even Mike Drago, who wrote the article about Olsen’s firing is pretty vague about the situation and if he can’t find a reason for the termination no one can.

  904. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin, I can only speculate at this time ,sinc eI have no insider info on the cancellations. I do know that those two teams have very solid programs and Wood was in a chaotic position with no HC and losing at least 5 solid players to transfer. This should have been avoided for sure. I hope Armstrong can pull the program back together. Wood still has I believe 4 Division 1 players but not at skill positions. Such a shame .

  905. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Since you are our go to Archbishop Wood point person, I just saw on this site that they are looking for two games to start the season. Saw in different places previously a game against Red Bank Catholic in OC to start the season and a game against St. Anthony’s (NY) for their second game. Are both those games off (assuming that they were ever on in the first place) do you know??

    Seems like a very choppy off season for Wood.

    I know Harrisburg was looking for a Week 1 (OK, or is it still officially Week”0″) some time ago. They still looking?? That could be a nice first game match-up.

  906. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65 the starting QB just left Wood for Imotep. I am guessing the hire was too late to stop the bleeding.

  907. mcd 65 says:

    Dave Armstrong named Head Coach at Archbishop Wood. he was a stud fullback at CB West and recently was an asst coach at Wood. Good luck to him.

  908. mcd 65 says:

    Well its June and both Pennridge and Wood are still without a head coach. Whats up here????

  909. mcd 65 says:

    Well,Wood lost 2 more starters that had transferred there from McD last year and a there is a mention of another considering it now. Mikw Watkins would not have left Wood if Walp had left earlier. Wood is in a bad situation as it stands now. @ Thomas ,what the devil is going on there??

  910. Wpialguy says:

    In todays transfer portal era, kids are far more likely to move around. Especially with the 7 on 7 or AAU teams. Community based teams are the rarity anymore and as a result kids are far more likely to change teams.

  911. S Woods22 says:

    @Bill it’s 2022 kids transfer ALL OF THE TIME. And look around the PCL and the city as a whole it’s happening in every program. I just saw the other day that a kid is leaving SJP to go back to NJ. Should we sound the alarms on the Prep program? Judge, LaSalle, Ryan etc. lose kids every year as well. This is nothing new.

  912. Bill says:


    I had heard that they had lost a kid or 2 to Northeast. I must have been mistaken. I did hear about the cheltenham transfer as well as another going back to Middletown. It was not just one kid who transferred. Could have been tuition issues, but that is everywhere. This will be a big year for them to take a step forward. Hopefully they finally do.

  913. mcd 65 says:

    Anyone hearing about who the candidates are for the Head Coaching positions at Wood and Pennridge ??

  914. S Woods22 says:

    @Bill can you name the kids who they lost to transfer? They lost 1 player to Cheltenham to my knowledge, 0 to NE. So perhaps it’s one kid transferred, rather than a bunch of kids leaving like you lead on.

  915. Kevin X says:

    Since there seems to be a roll on PCL football talk at the moment, can you guys confirm or correct me on what I see are the classifications on the larger schools in the PCL for the next 2 years:

    6A: SJP, LaSalle and Judge, who moves up to 6A

    5A: Wood and Roman, both move down from 6A

    Everyone else 4A and below.

  916. Bill says:

    They have alot of talent. But they did lose some to transfer as well which has kind of been under the radar. A couple left for Cheltenham, a few to Northeast high school and other institutions. Do not know the story there, but it may seem that kids and parents are starting to think the same thing you are. Even with the departures they have the talent to do something this year. Whether or not they finally do is another story.

  917. S Woods22 says:

    @Frank I can see where the disappointment comes from. You probably look online, twitter, instagram, etc. and see all of the offers rolling in for kids on Roman’s roster and then see W’s and L’s and think that doesn’t add up. I get it. But like I said they were very young the past two seasons. This season they have more experience returning and I would think they would be more successful. Can I give you a record prediction, no.
    Romans best player last season was a sophomore, he’s 15 years old. Their QB, also a sophomore. Defensive backfield was littered with sophomores and a couple of freshman. These were kids competing against men.
    In my opinion the next step would be stacking up some W’s beating some of the tougher opponents on their schedule and fewer let downs against opponents that some may see as inferior.
    Without a doubt, they are going to have one of the more talented rosters in the city/state this coming season. Lets see where they stand in November.

  918. FrankG says:

    @ S Woods22. What is the next step? Aside from the regular season win against LaSalle, I thought Roman was a big disappointment last year.

  919. S Woods22 says:

    There are a lot of moving pieces at Roman(speaking on the school not program) that create some disadvantages for the program however Coach Prete is doing the most with what he has.
    He is attracting tons of talent from all over the city, suburbs and now S. Jersey.
    As far as the wins and losses go, keep in mind the team as a whole has been very young. This season is the year I expect them to make the jump. Their junior class, Coach Prete’s first class is very talented and I expect those kids to mature this season and take the next step.

  920. mcd 65 says:

    @ BILL, Any school with 17 players with offers [committable or not] indicates colleges have been noticing the talent drifting Romans way, and in turn that school SHOULD be on the rise. I definitely hear you in reference to their on field record. I would think with McD closing more North Philly athletes that may have gone there, will head towards Roman,Northeast and Imhotep. This season will tell a lot about your mention of coaching ability at Roman. They are loaded with talent.

  921. KeBuChamp says:

    Being 5A means nothing in the wins and loss column. It only matters for playoffs. And 5A still goes the (maybe) Wood and Tep. Romans regular season schedule still consists of the teams they play year in and year out. Don’t expect much difference from them.

  922. The Joneses says:

    I don’t disagree with offers being committable and non. The cycle of things on the rise is the truth about it will come out. If it is as advertised results will match. If it is purely hype, the results will match. Some might argue they have nothing to prove because the expectation has never been high. It’s simply a sound marketing plan bein implemented like never before. They participate in events none of the other PCL school participate in. I don’t necessarily think they are promote a winning team/culture. It appears it’s simply a different one with some different bells and whistles. Prep has the national schedule, ESPN games, deep playoff runs and is top of the pecking order. Roman is carving a space. Could merely be a flash in the pan. I think being in 5A now will increase there wins.

  923. Bill says:

    @thejoneses while that is true, how is it not translating to wins on the field? Their schedule is similar to every other pcl team, in fact they have played a few teams from the interac and lower enrollment schools. Offers are also committable and non-committable. There is a difference between the types. And that difference between the types is considerable. I just think there would be more wins and the trend would not be downward if they are all the hype. Players could be being improperly pitched to higher level schools power 5 schools based on raw measurables (which will hurt them long term) or the talent is truly there and the on-field coaching is just not there. Just a strange situation but definitely a talented team with alot to prove.

  924. The Joneses says:

    @Bill it depends on your perfective. Roman is drawing talent more now then ever before. The players are getting scholarship offers to play at the next level from Power 5, Group of 5 etc. institutions. Only one team can be the state champion. If you can play, not win a state championship and still get to the next level, Roman becomes a legitimate options for Athletes that would have previously considered LaSalle, Prep and IMOTEP, which they weren’t doing at a high level previously. It is definitely an elevation in standing in my opinion.

  925. Bill says:

    Wood definitely has alot of issues right now. Most of which seem to be self inflicted. Roman most certainly is not on the rise. Their record actually got worse over the years despite bringing in talent. That team has the most to prove given all the buzz they attempt to generate for themselves on different websites and social sites.

  926. mcd 65 says:

    Does anyone know where Mike Watkins is coaching now ?? Thomas C. Im sure Wood did good by the guys that left. I have 3 kids that attended Wood and each one had a positive experience there. I just wonder what the heck happened with those two since they apparently had no issues at McDevitt for their first 2 years before the school closed.

  927. KeBuChamp says:

    As far as the kids getting expelled…i hear it was a “transfer now or be expelled” type of thing. Lots to unravel at Wood. Gotto assume with most assistants leaving and no positions being filled, that there was something going on within the staff. Is Watkins next in line?

  928. Thomas C. says:

    @mcd65: regarding the ‘transfers,’ Wood did what was best for the kids despite not having to, nor should they have IMO. These kids were not good students academically or disciplinary wise. Regarding the program – what happened is the program changed hands three times over and the third hire was an absolute disaster. Devlin took what he had learned at SJ Prep and implemented it at a school that had the makings of being a good team (none of us ever expected that grand success they had). He then passed it off to Kyle A. who knew exactly what it took to continue that, and he played for Devlin. This current (well now former HC) just was not at all a good hire – he wanted to do it his way and that way was never successful let alone with a program that was used to winning state championships.

  929. Thomas C. says:

    @mcd 65: regarding the ‘transfers,’ Wood did what was best for the kids despite not having to, nor should they have IMO. These kids were not good students academically or disciplinary wise. Regarding the program – what happened is the program changed hands three times over and the third hire was an absolute disaster. Devlin took what he had learned at SJ Prep and implemented it at a school that had the makings of being a good team (none of us ever expected that grand success they had). He then passed it off to Kyle A. who knew exactly what it took to continue that, and he played for Devlin. This current (well now former HC) just was not at all a good hire – he wanted to do it his way and that way was never successful let alone with a program that was used to winning state championships.

  930. Thomas C. says:

    GO FIGURE – I checked in with someone closely involved and you’re right – it’s being chalked-up as the good ole’ gentleman’s leave.’ I’m being told it was to save face and protect the kids (which I’m sure helps them in the long run with that thing called accountability…).

  931. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65 I think the plan was for him to take over because Walps was supposed to step down and said he wasn’t. He was staying one more year so he took a position elsewhere, which many weren’t happy with. I too was shocked about the players being expelled. Sad but true. Wood is in shambles right now. Roman looks to be on the rise.

  932. GO FIGURE says:

    @ Thomas C.

    They were expelled? Are you sure about that? If they were, THE PIAA CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS Article 6 Section 6 states:
    Transfers Following Expulsion or Anticipated Expulsion.
    Not withstanding the provisions of Section 3 of the article, a student who is expelled from a school, or who withdraws pending likely expulsion, for conduct which, had the student been allowed to remain at the sending school, would likely have resulted in loss of the opportunity to participate in interscholastic athletics at that school is ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at the receiving school for a period of one year from the date of transfer or, if the student demonstrates by compelling evidence that the period of ineligibility at the sending school would have
    been less, for the demonstrated period of ineligibility at the sending school.
    Where a school has prohibited a student from participating in interscholastic athletics at the school, the student shall be ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at any other PIAA member school for the shorter of (1) one year from the imposition of the school’s prohibition, or (2) the period that the student would have been prohibited from participating at his/her school.

    So will District 12 follow their own bylaws or will they ‘let it slide’ at it as usual?

  933. mcd 65 says:

    @ Thomases, I know what I read and that was both transferred. So whats up with the football program . This is upsetting after so many years of success.

  934. Thomas C. says:

    Mcd 65 – also, was just informed that Walps has resigned.

  935. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jonses, Whats up with Mike Watkins ,former McD HC.? I would think he would have been taking over at Wood.

  936. Thomas C says:

    Mcd 65 – please do some homework, man. Neither player you mentioned (Tyrese, Semaj) ‘transferred,’ they were expelled.

    Also, the problem is the assistants were/are growing tired of the coaching style and environment Walp’s is trying to implement. The OC resigned, OL/DL coach resigned, DB coach hired to be HC at Radnor.

    Lastly, Tyrese and Semaj are talented kids but to be dismissed from Wood is incredibly hard to achieve – that should be all you need to know about those two.

  937. Thomas C. says:

    Mcd 65 – please do some homework, man. Neither player you mentioned (Tyrese, Semaj) ‘transferred,’ they were expelled.

    Also, the problem is the assistants were/are growing tired of the coaching style and environment Walp’s is trying to implement. The OC resigned, OL/DL coach resigned, DB coach hired to be HC at Radnor.

    Lastly, Tyrese and Semaj are talented kids but to be dismissed from Wood is incredibly hard to achieve – that should be all you need to know about those two.

  938. The Joneses says:

    @mcd_65- I don’t think the exodus is complete. I was told Wood has not hired a new OC there which isn’t making some on the offense feel comfortable going into junior year.

  939. irish1 says:

    @ Foleman, I think the rosters on max preps are pretty much left up to the head coach of each school to provide info. PJP is actually been much better with providing info. I saw all PJPs games last year. From what I can see I think most of the key players minus Williams are back. Most are from traditional PJP familes. I did see one linemen that looks like is no longer there. Not sure who the receiver is that may have gone to Perk Valley. PJP actually plays Chestnut Hill again this year.I agree that he isnt big enough to play at Div one level. I could see a div 2 school taking a chance on him. A player with that kind of speed could be a factor in the return game and get reps at receiver.

  940. Foleman says:

    Irish1, those Maxpreps roster’s are cut and paste from the previous season and are not 100% accurate. I heard that 2 lineman are at Pottsgrove, 1 receiver is at Perkiomen Valley and Williams is at Chestnut Hill Academy. From what I heard about Williams was that he was not happy with the offers he was getting and he thinks he is a Division 1 player. Williams is fast and a good HS player, but played at 135lbs last year and missed a few games due to injury. At 135, he’s not even a Division 2 player, and shame on any school that he was talking to that was telling the kid they can get him a Div 1 ship.

  941. mcd 65 says:

    Archbishop Wood lost its second Division 1 LB to transfer. the first was semaj Bridgeman to Imhotep. He has offers from about 35 schools including almost every SEC school. .Alabama and Georgia were the most recent offers. Tyrese Whitaker has transferred to Northeast . I WAS expecting Wood to be a solid contender for a 5 A run ,however this has certainly changed the scenario for sure. Im wondering if there is something awry going on there.

  942. Irish1 says:

    @foleman, Looking at max preps roster for pjp I only see two transferes a lineman and Williams. Surprised to see a senior and captain transfere. Any word on a reason? Only thing I can think of is if they need Graver was thinking of leaving. Reed was an assistant coach on last year’s team. They had a solid staff guessing some went with Graver. Getting Reed is very solid hire

  943. Foleman says:

    Irish1, glad to see Reed get the Head Coaching job at PJP, he will do a good job there, I was hoping PJP would stay in house. First order of business for Reed is to stop the bleeding as 4 kids transferred out which included Lightning quick wingback and captain Kece Williams, there could be more transfers that I don’t know about.

  944. Wpialguy says:

    Foleman…. You are very right. The problem is that people don’t want to give up their fiefdoms and when schools have debt, mergers mean schools have to take in the other schools debts. You also have the problem of parents not wanting to bring in certain areas or classes of people. I’ll leave it at that buts certain districts will not want mergers. For every Central Valley, there is a Woodland Hills type merger that has led to a lot of unhappy people. I think beaver county is a great example though. You have New Brighton, Beaver falls, Rochester, Beaver, Freedom and Western Beaver all within 10 minutes of each other, none of the schools are larger than 4A.. and all but beaver have dwindling student populations. And you may see more people move into the area if the school is bigger and can provide more resources for their kids.

  945. Michael D says:

    Is there anyone from Districts 5/6 than can outline the new football league memberships for this upcoming season and/or that following season? Is United Valley a new school? Much appreciated

  946. Foleman says:

    PA needs to put politics aside and place the taxpayers first, so many small School districts could merge and save the taxpayers millions but the local politicians……many of them who attended these schools don’t have the will to close these schools. One more thing, the number of school age children is dropping dramatically across the State. My Local Public SD was a 6A school 10 years ago, a 5A School 5 years ago and now is a 4A school. Less kids in the Public SD means less athletes at these schools and when a star athlete transfers from a Pub to a private, it really hurts the local Pub SD, if more schools followed the Central Valley model of consolidation then maybe we would see more Pubs able to compete against the Private schools in sports.

  947. Irish1 says:

    Scott Reed is new head coach at PJP. Former head coach at Perk Valley where he won two Pac Ten titles

  948. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x

    I have been a big proponent of school district consolidation. There are too many small districts. Most of the development and families are moving into new suburbs and not the old steel towns.

  949. camisetas de futbol says:

    It is being widely reported out here (WPIAL) that Eric Kasperowicz will be named the new head coach at Mars Area high school. Mars Area is a 4A school immediately to the north of Pine-Richland. Its also being reported he already owns a house there and his son (who would have been starting QB at P-R) will be transferring to Mars. Mars will compete in the same classification as Thomas Jefferson, Aliquippa, Central Valley, and North Catholic.

  950. Kevin X says:

    @ Wpialguy

    Thanks for the reply. I’ll stay out of this for the time being other than to say it would be interesting to see the WPIAL go after separate public/private WPIAL playoffs than regular season contests. Also, I think the bigger issue out your way is demographics, that being a dwindling younger population mixed with too many small schools/school districts. Would not be surprised in the next 10-15-20 years of seeing some big time school district consolidation throughout the state, especially out west, which would drastically change the landscape.

    I’m guessing you probably saw this doozy of an article/situation:

  951. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x… right now the smaller schools are the ones leading this charge. There are only two private schools in wpial 4A or above.. north Catholic and central Catholic. Those two schools will play publics no matter what.

    In the smaller classes, you have a lot of private schools. In essence, the public schools don’t want to be put into sections with the private schools and don’t want to play them in the regular season. Their reasoning is that these schools can poach the athletes they see as the best on the public school teams after seeing them in The regular season. They want to have the private schools compete in their own section and then enter the playoffs. It could work as you could have a section with
    Seton lasalle, greensburg cc, Serra c, OLSH, bishop Canevin, Imani Christian and shady side academy, And more basketball schools like sewickley academy, Eden, Geibel.

    In essence, there were schools who were poaching athletes that were in the same section and the schools were leading teams to wins against schools they played for last year. For small schools, this hurts, as 1 and 2a schools sometimes have only a few good athletes, so if they are poached it hurts.

  952. Kevin X says:

    @ EPA’s Western PA Correspondent Bureau guys:

    So is the WPIAL going to reorganized their sections, conferences, etc. into separate public and private divisions?? They really did get stung pretty good by those D12 teams in the hoops tourney didn’t they. Guess the PIAA isn’t going to do anything further in the public/private debate, so this is how D7 intends to take matters into their own hands?? I don’t get it, but maybe you guys can enlighten me. I also heard another option is to reclassify teams based on competitiveness and not so much strictly on enrollment. That I get. Would go back to the traditional enrollment classifications for the playoffs, but regular season at least theoretically would have some semblance of a competitive balance, and therefore better, more enjoyable/watchable games.

  953. irish1 says:

    @Foleman, also never saw this coming. He had PJP program rolling. I guess getting a higher paying teacher job might have something to do with it,but Wissahicken doesnt draw great talent and seems to go thru coaches every few yrs. PJP has been on such an upswing,didnt really hear anything about players transferring out. Its a shame this happens at late stage with August not far off. Hope they are able to bring in a quality coach.

  954. Foleman says:

    WOW! Pope John Paul’s Rory Graver named Head Coach at Wissahickon. Didn’t see this one coming at all, Graver completely turned around a program that was dead in the water and in my opinion is one of the top offensive minds in the State. I thought he might leave for a college program but not for a Pa Public School program. PJP would seem to be a better job due to the large geographic area it has to draw from VS a Wissahickon. I am wondering what led to his leaving? I heard a few studs were looking to transfer out of PJP a few mos ago. I don’t think it would be difficult for PJP to find a top notch coach to replace him whether it’s internal or external.

  955. Wpialguy says:

    What’s interesting is that North Catholic, located a mile or 2 from Mars and who plays at Mars’ home field for their home games will be in 4A and the same section as Mars. Kasperowicz will no doubt have to get kids to return from North Catholic and play at Mars instead. Mars ran the wing T offense. Kasperowicz runs a pass heavy offense. Will be a year or two of growing pains in my opinion but they should be a good team. I would also expect Mars to be on the edge of 4/5a every two years. Also Mars and Pine Richland are mostly the same socioeconomic status, made up of suburb housing plans. The districts intertwine with each other in certain neighborhoods. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Pine Richland players end up in the Mars district as a result.

  956. New2PA says:

    It is being widely reported out here (WPIAL) that Eric Kasperowicz will be named the new head coach at Mars Area high school. Mars Area is a 4A school immediately to the north of Pine-Richland. Its also being reported he already owns a house there and his son (who would have been starting QB at P-R) will be transferring to Mars. Mars will compete in the same classification as Thomas Jefferson, Aliquippa, Central Valley, and North Catholic.

  957. Kevin X says:

    Well it happened. All 10 hoop games that involved a private/catholic/charter school won their respective games. That include all 6 boys games. I believe the PIAA will be getting an earful, directly and indirectly, with these results. Curious to see if there will be any reactions or comments by the PIAA. I understand that they shut off/disabled their Twitter “reply to.”

    Don’t know if it was a one off for football this past season with the true publics taking 5 of 6 championships. Guess we’ll see in about 9 months.

    @ Foleman, I agree, if Reading was full strength going into states, I believe that they would at least be playing tonight.

  958. Foleman says:

    When the Public and then Catholic Leagues joined the PIAA, it was pretty much a given that they would be the dominant force in Hoops across the State in Boys and Girls Basketball. Basketball is a city game, and when you factor in the number of kids to chose from, their’s a lot more 6’6 hoops players in the Philadelphia area Vs a coal mining town. I do think Reading would have won 6A again if their Center didn’t get hurt before the playoffs. Reading also has 2000+ boys to chose from. I think the playing field is starting to even out in Football, hoops is a different story, you only need a couple of stud basketball players in the starting 5 to be a powerhouse. Kennedy Catholic won the 6A title a few years ago and they were a Class A school. Will be interesting to see if Bridgeman is ruled eligible for the playoffs at Imhotep in Football, if he is, the PIAA should just throw out all the transfer rules.

  959. Kevin X says:

    A slight correction on my part, as I stated that 11 of the 12 hoops champions could be private/non boundary schools, but make that only 10 of 12. Both the 2A and 6A girls games are all public boundary match-ups. Off to a good start, 4 of 4 champs are in the private/catholic/charter/otherwise non boundary category. The Twitterverse is very much enjoying this 🙂

    Football question, District 4’s Jersey Shore, are the playing 4A or 5A the next two years?? Thought they got bumped up to 5A. If so, did they loose their appeal?? Did they even appeal or just accept it??

  960. Wpialguy says:

    Basketball is just another level. Imhotep is nationally ranked, with a kid who won a state championship in Tennessee last year. Imhotep plays public new castle. Neumann gorretti plays public Quaker valley. And poor Freedom area girls from out here in district 7 have reached the schools first ever basketball state championship and play Neumann Goreti girls. OLSH is one win away for tying the state record for wins in a row at 68. Private schools are definitely dominating basketball

  961. Wpialguy says:

    Fair enough. I guess there is a different side to every story

  962. Kevin X says:

    I see that LaSalle is back playing North Penn (@ North Penn) in the first game of the 2022 regular season (so it that Week 0 or Week 1??). Then North Penn travels up Rte. 309 to Quakertown for their second game of the season. I don’t recall them playing Q-Town recently. That would have been a good game last year.

  963. Thomas K. says:

    Commute wasn’t the reason Bridgeman moved on from Wood. Maybe it had something to do with him being dismissed from the school…

  964. Kevin X says:

    I’ll take some liberties with post since it is the off season and it has been fairly quiet around here up until the past few days. Tomorrow starts the final 3 days of the winter sports season for the PIAA with the basketball championships in Hershey. Being the instigator that I can be at times, I’ll give this sleeping bear a big poke, that being one of our occasional favorite topics of private/catholic/non boundary schools versus public boundary schools. For those of you who may not be aware, there are 24 teams competing in both boys and girls divisions, with 15 of those 24 teams being non-boundary schools. Or another way to look at it, only a third of the teams that are playing for a state championship are public boundary schools. I think this conversation/debate was at least temporarily put on the back burner for football as the WPIAL took care of business in December against McDevitt, Imhotep and SJP. It is conceivable, come Saturday evening, there could be 11 of 12 champions in basketball this year that are non boundary schools.

  965. mcd 65 says:

    WPIAL guy, Bridgeman lives a great distance from Wood ,and close to Imhotep as well as McD. He tried the commute to Wood since many of his teamates from McD went there. I dont blame him , the bus ride one way is over an hour.

  966. 4th & Forever says:

    WPIALguy, Welcome to SE PA. Did you notice none of the schools was his local public school? In fairness, as was said, McDevitt (Philly) did close, so he had to transfer at least once.

  967. Wpialguy says:

    3rd school in 4 years for that kid? Wonder how long into his college career he will be in the portal.

  968. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd_65 Yes that transfer was huge. I had Wood ready to contend for a state championship as well. It definitely changes the landscape.

  969. mcd 65 says:

    Semaj Bridgeman LB/TE from Archbishop Wood formerly from McD which closed , is transferring to Imhotep. I thought Wood had the makings of a very good year and would challenge TEP for District 12 ,5 A title and maybe States. With this one transfer , it changes this scenario for sure. Bridgeman has 35 offers at last count including Georgia ,Texas A@M, Michigan ,Florida ,Florida State ,PennState among others. Too bad for the Vikings. Imhotep was already pretty loaded as usual.

  970. Foleman says:

    Mike Mischler retires as Erie Cathedral Prep’s Football Coach, 20 years at the school, 23 total in HS. Many thought he would resign when his son graduated and he won his last State Championship. One of the top coaches in Pennsylvania-(5 State Titles), he will remain as Director of Facilities at ECP. He’s still young enough to get a college coaching position somewhere, I doubt he goes back to Coaching High School. Class act through and through.

  971. Kevin X says:

    @ Drew
    @ Foleman
    @ FrankG
    @ 4th
    @ Route 54

    Thanks for your responses guys. I may chime in more later with all of this.

  972. Kevin X says:

    Very interesting and detailed article on the bidding for the football championship games. For those of you thinking that they should be at Penn State, their bid was absolutely hilarious, and then add in the James Franklin angle. Plus the natural grass field.

    I have no issue moving the games out of Hershey. Hershey had its pluses and minuses, but not enough pluses to keep them there year after year. I’d personally love to see the championship weekend moved around the state year to year, or every two years within their classification cycle. My question is though, if there is a delay or issue with the instillation of the new turf at CV, then what?? Hope they have a “Plan B.” Lots of potentially negative moving parts, supply chain issues/product availability, labor issues/availability, cost overruns, build quality, who knows what else can rear its ugly head in today’s world.

  973. Route54 says:

    Responding to PIAA move of Championship games.
    They got it right. Hershey was getting stagnant for location. The Penn staters wanted happy valley to land DI players. The committee got it right with Cumberland. Time for change.

  974. Drew says:

    @Kevin X

    If I’m understanding correctly the WPIAL voted to not let Butler compete in D10 this cycle . Butler appealed and lost. D10 won’t let them in either unless the WPIAL allows it.

    Originally left to compete in D10 because of low numbers. Program has grown in recent years so WPIAL says they need to be in WPIAL. Butler still holds that they don’t have the ability to compete on a weekly basis yet and won’t play in WPIAL.

    They will not be eligible for any playoffs this cycle.

  975. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, this is what I have for who’s moving up and down:

    Redbank Valley (1A -> 2A)-Appealed, staying at 1A
    Bishop Guilfoyle (1A -> 2A)
    Southern Columbia (2A )-Staying at 2A after appeal, mixed feelings on this one, they are just too good for 2A, you would think they would want a challenge for a couple of years.
    Central Valley (3A -> 4A) Enrollment growth causing the move up to 4A
    Wyomissing (3A -> 4A)-Appealed the ruling a 2nd time and won, staying at 3A, stated a transfer was homeless, parents divorced etc, not buying a word of it but it worked.
    Aliquippa (4A -> 5A)-Appealed-Staying at 4A due to blowback from all over the State and that they are already playing up 3 classes
    Jersey Shore (4A -> 5A) Moving up to 5A
    Cathedral Prep (5A -> 6A)-Appealed, Staying at 5A, cited blowouts to TEP and Pine Richland the last 2 years in the playoffs, Population really declining in Erie, Villa Marie and ECP merging next year to from 1 coed school.
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)-Appealed, staying at 1A
    Farrell (2A)-Appealed lost, now 2A
    Imhotep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A -> 5A)-Back in 5A, TEP and Wood will battle once again for East Supremacy.

    So 5/6 appeals won. Why even keep this stupid rule. Base it on on the field results and do not include the transfers. Once again the PIAA doesn’t get it right.

  976. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    I understand Hershey had its downsides, e.g. shabby locker rooms, a mediocre playing surface, but it had tradition and felt like it was a bigger stage than a usual high school field / stadium.

    As someone asked on another board, how is Cumberland going to handle games on Thursday and Friday without closing the school on both days? It does, however,look large enough for the crowds that have been attending in recent years. That means there’ll be a be a better atmosphere than in a 15-25% filled Hershey Park.

    Penn State’s stadium would make even a good crowd (e.g. 8-10 thousand) look small and would make most of the crowds of recent years (2-5 thousand) look tiny. Hard to imagine it would be a good atmosphere–and it would be harder to get to for people from the Eastern part of the state. I assume the drive from Pittsburgh is about the same as the drove from Pittsburgh to Hershey. Correct me if I’m wrong about that.

    If you’re just thinking about the site itself and not the travel, Bucknell strikes me as ideal: bigger and nicer than any high school stadium but not overwhelming. I doubt the PIA would pay the cost, though.

    A big problem is that with six classifications the games are now spread over three days. That makes hosting difficult or impossible for many sites.

  977. 4th & Forever says:

    Not a D3 guy (never even heard of CV) but my understanding is they are going to have an 8K+ seat stadium, new press box, Jumbotron, new locker rooms, two turf practice fields. IDK if PIAA is covering some of those costs, but sounds top notch and it underbid Hershey.

  978. Kevin X says:

    Can any of you D10/NW or D7/WPIAL guys fill me in on what the heck is going on with Butler?? Guess I’m just too lazy to research or look into the situation myself, but what are they, D10, D7, ostracized from both and potential subsequent district playoffs and therefore any PIAA state playoff possibilities?? Looks like another fine district and/or PIAA mess that has been gotten into (at least to these eyes from the other side of the state).

  979. Kevin X says:

    I’m guessing most of you guys have already heard that the PIAA is moving the football championship games 20-25 miles west from Hershey to Cumberland Valley High School (along with soccer and field hockey (FH formerly at Whitehall HS)) for the next 4 years. I believe the the other options/choices were Altoona, Penn State and remaining at Hershey. Any thoughts, comments?? Curious to know from you D3 guys, or anyone who has been to a game at CV, how do you think it will work out.

  980. Foleman says:

    Route 54, Wyo signed a 2 year home and home contract with S. Columbia in 2020, the 2020 game was cancelled due to covid. Berks County has merged with the Lancaster Lebanon league next year to form a super league, Wyo, along with Berks Catholic are going to play in Div 4A, one division up as they are both 3A schools. They might not have room on the schedule for S. Columbia or the schedule just might have been a little too tough as they will be playing Berks Catholic, Pottsville, Cocalico, Conrad Weiser and Lampeter-Strasburg which is very difficult for a 3A school.

  981. Route 54 says:

    I was informed back in October that SCA would play Wyomissing again in 2022. Now I’m being told that it has changed. Anyone know why? Wyomissing had no troubles with them. Wyomissing could have hung 60 on them if they wanted.

  982. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, anybody have a final (if it is final) list of schools that are actually being moved up in classification do to the success formula?? The bits and pieces I’ve seen, it appears just about everyone was winning their appeals. Bishop Guilfoyle (and ECP??) the only team(s) moving up?? Central Valley is moving up, but that is due to increased enrollment I believe. I also understand Wood and Lackawanna Trail are moving down in classification. Anybody else in this category (of schools that have been moved up previously)??

    Also, any idea of how the playoff brackets will look over the next 2-year cycle?? Any interesting changes??

  983. BLOCS says:

    Buddy, 4th & Forever:

    Here is an article from a few years back regarding EITC credits and the BLOCS program in Montgomery County… I have attached the link to the entire article but copied the nuts and bolts of the program. This is totally legal.. What is interesting is that the BLOCS funding can be directed to specific directives of the LLC and 96% of the funds are directed that way.

    Since 2001, Pennsylvania’s EITC program has allowed businesses and individuals to lower their tax bills by donating to private schools, scholarship organizations, pre-K programs, and other educational enrichment initiatives. The bulk of the tax credits — $110 million per year — are reserved for donors that give to scholarship organizations, which provide financial aid to children attending K-12 private schools. Businesses can donate up to $750,000 each year to EITC-eligible organizations, and then claim 75 percent of that donation as a credit that offsets their state tax bill. The credit can increase to 90 percent if they commit to donate funds for two consecutive years. For instance, a business that pledges a $100,000 donation for two consecutive years could receive a $90,000 credit each year, which chops $90,000 off their tax bill. Critics of the EITC program say it deprives the state of potential tax revenue and subsidizes private school tuition for families that choose to leave public schools. But lawmakers who support EITC tout it as a win-win for businesses and school students. The businesses get attractive tax credits that encourage them to stay in Pennsylvania, they say, and students get scholarships that offer them an alternative to public schools. The program is most popular in Montgomery County, where businesses and individuals claimed $35 million in tax credits on $39 million in charitable gifts. Some of the largest contributors to EITC programs are Limited Liability Corporations (LLCs). These “special purpose entities” represent individual donors giving to private charities, according to Bill O’Brien, executive director of Business Leadership Organized for Catholic Schools, a leading recipient of EITC funds. O’Brien’s organization, which predominantly grants scholarships to children attending Catholic schools in the Philadelphia area, operates more than a dozen organizations named BLOCS Scholarships LLC. Those groups were some of the largest donors to EITC programs last year, giving a total of $15.6 million to claim $14 million in tax credits. O’Brien said the LLCs represent hundreds of individuals who donate to the BLOCS scholarship fund. The foundation passes the tax credits on to its donors, and manages the special purpose entities to save them the headache of doing it themselves, he said. O’Brien said that most of the donors are “high-net-worth” individuals making sizable gifts. Individual donations usually start at $5,000, he said, but most are closer to $15,000 or $20,000. The vast majority of EITC donations fund private school scholarships for children whose families meet certain income criteria. BLOCS was the single largest recipient of EITC contributions last year, taking in $18.5 million in contributions, according to DCED data.

    The vast majority of the children who receive BLOCS scholarships go to Catholic schools, where tuition can run $4,500 for elementary students and up to $10,000 for high schoolers, O’Brien said. O’Brien said that poorer families may receive larger grants that offset most of their tuition. But most families pay at least something out of pocket to finance their children’s private education, he said. “Families pay what they can — maybe $100 to $50 a month — because we want [them] to have some skin in the game,” O’Brien said. “This is a decision they are making for their child, and we want them to want it. If you’re just giving it away it doesn’t do anyone any good, but we try to help as many families as we can.”

    Since the state doesn’t collect data on the income level of children who receive scholarships, Williams argues, there’s no way to know if the scholarships make private education accessible to low-income children, or simply subsidize families whose children would enroll in private schools anyway. “What I’m concerned about is that there is virtually no accountability,” Williams said in a Senate Education Committee meeting last week. “We don’t have hard facts about who is benefitting and how these kids are doing in the schools.”

  984. 4th&Forever says:

    Joneses, all of the schools in FCS have the same recruiting/scholarship limits unless further restricted by their school or conference. In Pennsylvania HS football there are different rules for where a school’s players can come from. Public schools are supposed to play with the kids in their individual school boundaries, though some districts like Philly have open enrollment. Private schools have no boundaries. City limits, county and even state lines mean nothing. On the flip side, most of the kids in private schools have to pay to attend. Regardless, I’d hardly call that the same rules.

  985. The Joneses says:

    4th & Forever your right and it actually proves my point. First we know PIAA rules are the same for All schools. Many state and believe in their minds SJP has a different set of PIAA rules. They do not. NDSU example just merely shows people will always complain when things are they way they want them.

  986. 4th & Forever says:

    Joneses, unlike SJP, NDSU plays by the same rules as everyone else in FCS. As far as Aliquippa and SC, I think they should be allowed to compete at whatever level the want, at or above their natural enrollment classification. I think forcing schools that play by the same rules as everyone else to move up a classification because of the “Success Formula” is ham fisted at best.

  987. 4th&Forever says:

    Foleman, I can’t give you all of the reasons why individual schools football fortunes wax and wane. In general, sports (especially football) participation is down. When I was in HS, all but a couple of the “football type” (strong, athletic) kids at least gave the game a shot. Now there are a lot of kids who are physically made for the game who want no part of it. Places where football is more a part of the culture no doubt do better, but that trend of decreasing participation is almost universal across the country. The PCL might have always been the best league in the state, but its participation in state playoffs coincides with the decline of District One.

    As far as your son… that sucks. There’s probably not enough tape for a PWO offer, and those rarely lead to scholarships at most schools. If he’s interested in continuing to play, his coach can reach out to small colleges and explain the situation. D2 schools often won’t offer significant aid until your sophomore year anyway. D2 football is in a weird niche most places, but it’s still fairly strong in PA. D3 is also an option, but no $ and he doesn’t have the tape for the coaches to help him with the admissions department, so he’s going to qualify strictly on his academic record with no push from football. Best of luck to him.

  988. The Joneses says:

    @4th & Forever, I don’t like name calling, however, anyone who thinks one division just needs to try harder is a moron. I think good coaching and preparation can be a gauge. No one has the ability to simply say they need to work harder. The western PA request should be answer grant as you stated because it mirrors the what happens in the SE.

    Wow Foleman that really sucks. Especially bc the AD didn’t know the rules that governs the tasks he was hired to perform.

    It doesn’t end at the HS level as I was reading once North Dakota state won yet another FCS national championship people were calling for them to be forced to move up to D1 A. They one every year from 2011-2021 missing only 2016.

  989. Foleman says:

    4th & Forever, the Catholic League for decades was the most powerful league in the State hands down. For example CB West had the longest win streak in the State at 55 games and just came off a State Championship, who stopped the streak? The Catholic Leagues Cardinal O’Hara, which ended up with 6-4 record. Changing demographics in Philadelphia caused the weakening of both the Catholic and Public League-many stud Catholic football players today head to St. Joe Prep and TEP is where where many of the Public School stud football players go. Prep was an also ran in the Catholic League for years until Gil Brooks took over, Prep always got football players in the Philadelphia area and S. Jersey to go there but nothing like today. How TEP gets all those players to go there is another story, Prep is one of the top academic schools in the region, TEP was almost closed due to poor test scores a few years back. I will give you District 1 was better a few decades ago but the Inter Ac schools were there back then and the Ridley’s, N. Penn’s, Coatesville’s, Neshamany’s, Downingtown’s, and CB Wests-(the latter 2 were 1 large school back then) were much better than they are today and it’s not due to Private School Poaching. A few years ago, I watched District 1 Champ Downingtown West play District 3 Central Dauphin in the State Playoffs, I was STUNNED how small Dwest was and that they only had a few good football players, CD scored every time they had the ball, scored 65 points and could have scored 100 if they wanted to. 2A S. Columbia and 3A Wyomissing and Central Valley would have beaten District 1 6A Champ Garnet Valley this year. My son went to the local Private school which was a powerhouse in football, the Public school football team was trash and not a very good school academically, quickly found out the Private school was promoting 2 Div 1 running backs at the expense of my son, transfers to Public School his Sr year, the AD at the Public School didn’t know we could appeal the transfer and be eligible right away, he sits out the 1st 3 games, scores several TD’S in his 1st couple of games he was eligible, then he twisted his ankle and broke his hand the next game, end of scholarship.

  990. 4th&Forever says:

    Joneses, I admit I’m a broken record (I wonder how many even understand that reference) on the public vs. private subject. I just found the move by the small public schools in western PA to be a pretty small ask. Being from the SE, I admittedly don’t know a lot about schools outside of D1 and D12 and didn’t realize the request to split privates and publics is primarily driven by basketball. However, I do take issue with the “D1 sucks, you just need to try harder” narrative. From ’96-’04 D1 had a finalist in 4A every single year. It wasn’t just one school, either. CBW, NP, Neshaminy and the combined Downingtown all made the finals. Since then, there have been two D1 teams to make the finals, the last in 2012 and both lost. The top talent didn’t suddenly take a nose dive, it just went somewhere else and now those public schools are playing against their own kids. SJP has made every final since 6A was instituted and the lower classifications are similarly stacked. The “D1 (and D12 public) coaches and players are lazy” mantra is demonstrably BS. In a state where public schools outnumber privates 8:1, individual public schools will catch lightning in a bottle and win a lot of championships and they deserve kudos. Aliquippa is nationally recognized and SC is a truly amazing program, but at the top classifications individual publics can’t match the year in year out dominance of the D12 private schools. I don’t know if there’s a solution, but I tire of the “D1 sucks” comments… things are different in the SE.

  991. The Joneses says:

    @4th & Forever I was wondering when we would come back to this narrative. Are we saying MT Leebo taught us nothing? That was not fluke to me being there live. Maybe the players and Coaches there not only worked their butts off, but also didn’t believe they were at a disadvantage against Prep? We didn’t make it deep into the year before it went back to the same ole stuff. Are we really saying no one else can do that with their typical talent pool? I don’t know much about MT Leebo. Did they have a bunch of transfers this year. I think Freedom made the semi-finals for the first time this past season. Where private schools in their way the entire time?

  992. GaryZ says:

    Shout out to the D7 (WPIAL) guys… Tyler Boyd&Aaron Donald. #WESTSIDEBESTSIDE D7. #WPIAL

  993. D11 Matt says:

    Just saw Northern Lehigh’s 2022 schedule on the school website. They will be A next year. They will be playing a tough 3A schedule again vs North Schuylkill, Northwestern and Notre Dame green pond. They could be 6-4 and be a favorite not only in dist 11A but eastern A. Return entire lines, TE, and four skills starters (from a team that made final 4 in AA last year). And they wouldn’t have to play southern if they went deep into playoffs….or Bishop G who moved up. Watch Northern Lehigh in A next year. Would love to see a Northern Lehigh-Old Forge state playoff game!

  994. Wpialguy says:

    The smaller public schools are the schools leading this charge. The smaller publics have been the ones hurt by the smaller privates. Specifically in basketball. Bishop Canevin is beating every single a team by 40 plus. In 2a, OLSH set the longest winning streak in the WPIAL history at 64 games. These smaller schools with 30 kids on a football roster are decimated if one or two of their best players leave. The AD’s have said if they play them in the playoffs so be it, but they don’t want to play these teams in the regular season and give them a look at their best players who they can then take the next year.

  995. 4th & Forever says:

    Foleman, you’ll get no argument that the PIAA transfer rules are a mess. However, D1 was a dominant football district until about two decades ago and Philly even had some decent programs. In basketball, Philly public school competition was legendary. Then something happened that made the privates more attractive. At first, it was the chance for a better, or for many, a religious education. Those reasons have always existed. I suspect as some of those schools won, they were able to attract talent that just wanted to win or play against the best. Whatever the reasons, it’s not whining because the results are undeniable. You left out NG, LaSalle, and pretty most of the Inter-Academic in your list of schools that are getting the D1 talent. 80% of the schools in the SE are public, but over 80% of the “blue chip” football talent and about 2/3 of all D1 players come from private schools or Imhotep. The handful of publics that are still competitive tend to be further out like Coatsville, Downingtown, and NP. This isn’t a new thing, or unique to SE PA, but the degree of private school dominance hasn’t been seen before to my knowledge.

    What does it all mean? We don’t have a level playing field and calling it whining ignores the reality of the situation and is demeaning to the players and coaches busting their tails out there only to come up short on natural talent. I find the public schools desire to separate the private schools out west into a separate league to me modest, bordering on naive, but things are different out there as well.

    Curious about your son and why he went to a private, then transferred back to a public and how it cost him a scholarship? None of my business if you don’t want to expand on it. I lacked D1 talent, but in the end, I loved the small college experience. School was always first, because there was no scholarship to hold over your head and the coaches understood that. Between financial aid and first shot at the easy “work-study” jobs, the debt was pretty minimal, but it was admittedly a different time and place.

  996. Foleman says:

    4th & forever, Only 3 schools-St.Joe Prep, Archbishop Wood and Imhotep charter seem to get the pick of the litter for players in football in the NE. You can also add in Malvern Prep, but they are not in the PIAA. District 1, with more 6A and 5A schools than anyone in the State absolutely stinks in football, can anyone blame them for going to those schools. Many of the good Public league players go to Imhotep because they win. It seems like a few AD’S out West are crying foul about a few players transferring in to Bishop Canevin, I don’t know the story but I bet they transferred in from a few Lousy Public schools. The NCAA took the right approach, you get 1 transfer without penalty and that’s it. The Piaa put in a rule where you have to sit out a part of the regular season and no playoffs if you transfer in your Jr or Sr year. My kid transferred in from Private to Public and this stupid rule, which penalizes the kids cost my son a scholarship.

  997. 4th & Forever says:

    The WPIAL ADs have set a pretty low bar IMHO by asking to separate the private schools into separate leagues from publics. Seems like a very reasonable ask. I hope they can keep the public schools competitive there, because in the SE, the only public schools that are still competitive on a state level are far enough away from the population center of Philly so it limits the number of private schools that can recruit their players.

  998. David Mika says:

    D11 Matt. Mid February I will start entering them. First, I am going to do a update first before we switch over to 2022.

  999. D11 Matt says:

    Hey Dave,

    When will schedules be released and listed for upcoming 22 season?


  1000. Wpialguy says:

    Rumor is pine Richland is moving to hire Ledonne away from Penn hills.

  1001. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, true about Wyomissing Borough, but you’re forgetting about West Reading and the demographic that’s been key to Wyomissing’s recent success.

    WPIAL, that knife cuts both ways. I know area Catholic programs that lose players that have attended Catholic school from K-10 but transfer to power public programs when the latter is better positioned for success. It tends to be cyclical and snowball — as soon as Canevin has a couple of 5-5 seasons, watch what happens in subsequent years.

  1002. Wpialguy says:

    Small schools on this side of state are getting upset about private schools poaching players…on the surface it looks like sour grapes.. but it is an advantage. How can a public school compete if say… bishop Canevin beats them by 40, what is stopping the best player on public school to transfer to canevin? When a school only has 30 kids on the team, one or two best players transferring can be killer.

  1003. Michael D says:

    Thanks for the update Foleman…never knew the reason why

  1004. Foleman says:

    With Aliquippa, Wyomissing and S. Columbia winning appeals, the PIAA should just scrap the success formula. Erie Cathedral Prep hasn’t presented yet and something tells me since they are a private school, they have no chance of winning an appeal. What was interesting is that Wyomissing used “Unique Circumstances” to counter a transfer and stated divorce, homelessness and financial difficulty in its presentation. Wyomissing isn’t Aliquippa, its the wealthiest area in Berks County, the average home price in Wyo is over 300K, highly doubtful if anyone in Wyomissing is homeless.

  1005. Kevin X says:

    Quip’s big day with their PIAA appeal hearing. Wyo’s also.

    OK guys, its very simple, get rid of this whole transfer clause garbage and you’d clean up this debacle of a success formula/competition formula immediately. Good luck to those teams trying to appeal success only points when they are faced with promotion (see, I didn’t use that cowardly word “punish”).

  1006. mark dodgson says:

    nice piece D3 Mike makes since so you know it won’t be considered

  1007. D3 Mike says:

    Regarding the Aliquippa op-ed, someone with access to the info and basic knowledge of statistics should be able to calculate football vs. athlete vs. non-football transfers into these schools. If movement is truly driven by socioeconomics, I would expect to also see a high number of transfers that *don’t* play football, all of which could be used by the PIAA to refine the transfer rule. For example, if Aliquippa turns over 10% of the sophomore class each year, I would also expect 10% of the sophomores on the football team to be transfers, on average. If that’s the case, Aliquippa should get a waiver; they shouldn’t be penalized for poverty.

    However, the flaw in the logic used in the op-ed is the notion that socioeconomics and athletic transfers are somehow mutually exclusive. It’s entirely possible that there are a lot of transfers into Aliquippa due to socioeconomics… AND a number of kids switching for athletics. Comparing the baseline, student population transfer rate with the number of transfers to specific athletic teams would help tease out this distinction.

  1008. Foleman says:

    Michael D, I remember vaguely that the Head of the Catholic League at the Time-Father Joseph McFadden, first said something about their application was rejected due to internal matters, whatever that means, and that they could reapply in the future if they wanted, they applied in 2018 so it looks like they wont be reapplying anytime soon. Devon Prep, a similar school who also does not have a football program was voted in in 2017. Holy Ghost Prep was rejected not only by the Catholic Principals but also by the Catholic League Athletic Directors which tells me a few schools had it out for Holy Ghost Prep.

  1009. Michael D says:

    I know this is football forum…but got a basketball question if I can…….looking for D12 or even D1 people………Does anyone know why Holy Ghost Prep was not accepted into the Catholic League a few years back when they applied….not assuming but did Wood or Egan maybe have an issue with that? Seems with all the schools that closed they would of wanted them….great hoops tradition but I could see them maybe starting football somewhere down the line….Just curious and im not picking on AW or CEC

  1010. MikeS says:

    Hey Buddy, he had a couple of visits to schools, gal is a single mom, so think it’s more about the opportunity to play at a higher recruited school and unless I misunderstood, it’s not costing her a dime more than she is presently paying. She also said she hasn’t heard a word from anyone on the North Penn coaching staff,

  1011. Foleman says:

    Wyomissing also appealed, they lost, they are going to continue the appeal process. They met the points criteria for moving up but I am not sure about the 3 transfers. I know one kid moved from NY State to Wyomissing, another kid was in the program in 9th grade, transferred to Berks Catholic and then transferred back to Wyomissing his Sr year, those are the only 2 I can think of that played on the team.

  1012. mark dodgson says:

    what happing to Aliquippa is probably not fair .I don’t like the rule because it penalizes a team that hasn’t played yet . a team wins states them everyone graduates and a bunch of inexperienced players have to play tougher competition. seem wrong to me you penalizing kids on what their kids did before them..Aliquippa says that kids don’t go their to play football it a lot of other reasons ,but i have to wonder how a school with 118 boys come up with 4- 300 lb athletic line men when all the district 2 had about 8

  1013. Buddy says:


    Yea, what else is new. Don’t know how the average family affords this. Besides the tuition at a private school, they still

    have to pay the school taxes for NP. I assume these are people of means. Ironically, I heard NP is not a bad school district.

    In the top 5% of public schools in Penna. Beats me.

  1014. Brian says:

    I said that this would be the outcome.

  1015. Michael D Smoll says:

    Hey Buddy Just an FYI, District 1 North Penn, most probably lost their best Middle School running back this past year to one of those schools without boundaries, or so his mom has strongly hinted.

  1016. Brian says:

    In regards to the Aliquippa situation… why don’t they go to AA in this enrollment count and have the competition factor put them in 3A or go to 3A and the completion rule will put them in 4A. This is a new cycle so they can choose where to play first and then allow the completion factor to bump them into the class they want to be in. I agree this is no reason they should have to play in 5A. They’re A enrollment option already to play up 2 classes and the completion factor put them into 4A. Just my thought.

  1017. Wpialguy says:

    Aliquippa controversy is gaining political steam. State representative is pushing hard and congressman Conor lamb who is running for senate has also written a letter to the PIAA. We will see if they budge.

  1018. Kevin X says:

  1019. Brian says:

    I can almost sat with certainty that southern will not be moving up to 3A. This is just like it was a few years ago when they graduated so many seniors. The 2015 team and the 2019 team. The problem with piaa and the transfer rule is that according to piaa any player who was not on the previous roster count is considered a transfer and the school has to petition them to show that they were in 8th grade the previous year. Once those students are removed then the numbers will be under the transfer amount. This happens with all school but most schools don’t care because they don’t hit the success points so there’s no reason to petition. Here are 2 examples of how an athlete is looked as a transfer but really isn’t. They’re in 8th grade and will move up to 9th and now are added to the varsity team or they’re a 10th, 11th, 12 grader who didn’t play the previous year. They’re also considered transfers but really aren’t. Schools who reach success points and are told they’re over the transfer will in most cases petition knowing that piaa does this. they don’t really reach the transfer limit.

  1020. mark dodgson says:

    congratulation to Old Forge HS the 2022 district 2 class A champion as they are the only class A school left in the district so if they go 0-10 their still in the playoffs ? going to be interesting. Also SCA is appealing going up in class. Really think someone need to look at High School football in PA every year it seems to get more screwed up !!!

  1021. D11 Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh loses Matt Frame, Smoyer, and Amorim. But they have Ramos returning at RB (shared time with frame) Jimenez at FB, and Nick Frame who played WR this year and backup QB ( I assume he will be the guy at QB next year). He had a WR pass for a TD against North Schuylkill and West Catholic last year.

  1022. D11 Matt says:

    Just saw some of the D11 classifications. Watch Northern Lehigh in A in 2022. (I’m shocked they are down to A with only 116 males)( as an alum from about 15 years ago we had 300 males in the HS). But in D11 there are only 6 A teams and Northern Lehigh returns all lineman, TE and 4 skill players for a total of 17/22 starting positions. They will be a top 5 eastern A team. Up there with Old Forge, Steelton High. Playing in eastern AA finals will help this returning lineman.

  1023. Wpialguy says:

    Read red bank valley will be appealing their bump up ruling. They said PIAA said they had 10 transfers, but claims they only had one. See no reason red bank valley should be forced up a class after two good seasons.

  1024. Foleman says:

    Here’s the list of teams moving up due to the competition formula, Wyomissing will now have to battle it out with McDevitt in District 3 4a-Tough task! TEP and Wood will go at it in 5a in the East, Aliquippa in 5A West. S. Columbia to 3A which will make it more difficult to win a State Championship, same with Central Valley moving to 4a
    Redbank Valley (1A -> 2A)
    Bishop Guilfoyle (1A -> 2A)
    Southern Columbia (2A -> 3A)
    Central Valley (3A -> 4A)
    Wyomissing (3A -> 4A)
    Aliquippa (4A -> 5A)
    Jersey Shore (4A -> 5A)
    Cathedral Prep (5A -> 6A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Farrell (2A)
    Imhotep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A -> 5A)

  1025. Wpialguy says:

    So Woodland Hills numbers put them in 3a, however, they have stated that they will continue to play in 5a as they want to continue their tradition and rivalries. Although I’m not sure why as I think they would dominate 3a and win wpial. But kudos to them for challenging their kids.

    Also Belle Vernon has moved from 4A to 3a and will replace Central Valley as the favorite in that class in my opinion.

    4A is absolutely loaded with Central Valley, North Catholic, Thomas Jefferson and McKeesport.

    5a is also loaded. Don’t know if Aliquippa can keep up and dominate but they have shocked me before. They will be playing against teams with flat screen tvs analyzing film on the sidelines running college type offenses. Depending on the conference, it will be pretty funny seeing some of these wealthy 5a schools have to travel to aliquippa to play a section game. I think aliquippa will make playoffs, but it will be quite a story if they can keep winning at the rate they do.

    Aliquippa controversy is gaining political momentum as well. Local state representative has written a letter to PIAA and the beaver county NAACP has also written a letter to the PIAA. Don’t know if PIAA will fold from the pressure but there is a full court press on them.

  1026. Kevin X says:

    You guys can digest the new classification numbers (and those caught up in the success formula spider web) for the next two years, and start firing up those comments once again……..

    BTW, those schools who are looking to voluntarily play up, they have until tomorrow to make that known.

  1027. Wpialguy says:

    New class reports are out. Wpial 5 6A schools. 29 1A schools. Time to merge man. I know it’s hard because of community identity but it’s a huge waste of taxpayer dollars having that many small schools.

  1028. Tornado Fan says:

    @Brian agree, I think Mt. Carmel was one of the top 5 teams in AA the past few years but are not ranked high because we didn’t make it out of districts. ’18, ’19 and ’21 MCA was 10-3 with 2 of the losses coming against Southern (one regular season, one in Dist. championship). Southern was on a streak for 4 years with the ridiculous team that graduated in 2020 and blew everyone out so bad it was almost impossible to tell how good anyone else in AA was. I hoped MCA would be more competitive this year but G. Garcia was the difference. Up until the early ’10s, the MCA/SCA games were always pretty competitive. I am not one of those fans hoping Southern moves up just so MCA can get out of districts. If you wanna be the best you have to beat the best. 20-30 years ago, MCA and Berwick were best in the area, now Southern is the team to beat. Most of the D4 AAA teams MCA and Southern play during the regular season were AA in the previous 4 classification system so I don’t think there is much difference there anyway. MCA beat the AAA district champ Danville by 2TDs this year during the regular season. Southern is always good, but I think with Garcia gone and MCA having some good young talent coming up, the games and D4 AA will be more competitive again the next few years. Or maybe thats just wishful thinking, we’ll see.

  1029. Health Care says:

    Thanks a lot, I suppose we ’re at contrary ends on the diapason with these academy quarter each- star brigades. Some you guys and your glories and crowns, again, i suppose I ’m in the nonage being a Friday night in, Friday night out addict, find a good game and enjoy the evening, and if your platoon claims palm in Hershey, its a nice perk and icing on the cutlet of a really good season. The only way I ’d be in favor of what you’re proposing is if there’s a real low number of guys coming out to play and you need a hutch situation. Ever I do n’t suppose that would be an issue with a 5A or 6A academy.

  1030. Man of press says:

    I do recall something about Central Valley moving up based on enrollment

  1031. Brian says:

    Kevin X, funny you say that because I was asking the same question regarding Mt. Carmel. They are in the same district as Southern and haven’t been able to come even remotely close to beating them in districts in recent years. I mentioned that it would be easier for Mt. Carmel to move up to AAA and win a district title there. They probably would’ve won the AAA district 4 title this year and many years they may be one of the top AA schools but can never prove it against the other teams in the state because of being in the same diarist as southern. I think they would’ve would’ve been able to win a state playoff game or 2 in AAA.

  1032. Wpialguy says:

    Once the new classes come out, I will try to analyze and post a synopsis if I’m not too busy

  1033. Wpialguy says:

    Kevin x, South Fayette and Mars have been schools that have tripled their populations. Peters TWP is also steadily growing. South Fayette is now one of the bigger schools in the wpial in the middle of 5a. 10 years ago they were in the old 2a. The population growth in Pittsburgh is heavily in the suburbs. The old steel town areas are where you see population going down. In mike white’s sports chat today, he mentioned that as of now he only sees 5 wpial schools in 6A. That could be corrected if a few of these smaller schools are absorbed by their larger neighbors. North Catholic has also gone from a 1a school to a school that will go to 4A after they closed their north side school and built a new school in the suburbs north of Pittsburgh; which is why I think a school such as Pine Richland, which is near North Catholic has gone from 6 to 5a even though it’s a really good district. There are also different charter schools popping up each year which is why schools near the city are dropping population. Most of these charters do not offer football though. One difference between western and eastern pa is that in the east there are very few schools in 1a and 2a. Out here in the west, those schools make up most of the classes in PIAA.

  1034. mark dodgson says:

    ok i confused about this transfers rule if you have 3 transfer pulse the success to earn the 6 point you move up a class correct ? now if a Catholic school or a charter has let say 10 players come in to the freshman class who look like they will be ball players do they count as transfers ? if the star qb from valley view his jr year family moves to Dunmore is that a transfer>? it seem to me schools who are up front are getting screwed ! or an i missing something

  1035. Kevin X says:

    One more thing, for those of you who are tired of hearing about Southern Columbia hiding out in 2A (assuming that they will stay there for the next 2 years), and especially you 2A schools, here is a thought, take a page out of District 10’s playbook from a few years ago (when all of the 4A schools played up to 5A to avoid ECP), and volunteer to play up to 3A. Make a statement. Shake things up. I think it would be absolutely hilarious to see every 2A school statewide voluntarily playing up to 3A. Never happen, but fun to visualize.

  1036. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Yes, I do recall something about Central Valley moving up based on enrollment. They seem like an outlier out there in the west, going up in enrollment as opposed to decreasing enrollment. Interesting seeing all these schools possibly moving down in classification, Garnet, Del Val, Scranton, etc. the two former I find odd as I thought they were in either growing, or at least stable population areas. Anybody other than CV moving up via enrollment figs only?? Speaking of, I believe it was wpialguy who mentioned (with an article) the screw up in schools counting vo-tech and/or other other enrollment numbers, and the PIAA asked for re-submissions and extended reporting deadlines. Well, here are the new and updated enrollment parameters for football:

    The NEW PIAA parameters had significant changes in the football ranges:
    1A was 138 and below, now 123 and below
    2A was 139-207, now 124-180
    3A was 208-280, now 181-262
    4A was 281-402, now 263-382
    5A was 403-585, now 383-557
    6A was 586 and above, now 558 and above

    Wonder if this affects Central Valley or anyone else who previously referenced moving down (or up).

  1037. Kevin X says:

    @ PB

    Thnx for the response, I suppose we’re at opposite ends on the spectrum with these school district all-star teams. Some you guys and your trophies and championships, again, i suppose I’m in the minority being a Friday night in, Friday night out fan, find a good game and enjoy the evening, and if your team claims victory in Hershey, its a nice bonus and icing on the cake of a really good season. The only way I’d be in favor of what you are proposing is if there is a real low number of guys coming out to play and you need a co-op situation. Somehow I don’t think that would be an issue with a 5A or 6A school.

  1038. Wpialguy says:

    Wpial success in 3a is mostly due to beaver county schools. Aliquippa, Central Valley, beaver falls, and Quaker valley which is right over the border. Old steel towns that don’t have the population they once did but still have a good football culture entrenched. In my opinion there needs to be school mergers within beaver county. It that’s an argument for another day

  1039. D3 Mike says:

    Just wanted to point out that the WPIAL winner has won 5 of the 6 state titles in the new 3A… and if you extend that run to include the old 2A, the WPIAL winner has made it to Hershey 10 straight years in that class and won 7 of the last 9 state titles, with those state titles coming from 5 different programs. It follows that the WPIAL favorite will probably be the favorite to win the state title in that class, again. The WPIAL has great 3A public programs and many of the 3A Catholic schools in the East have been playing up in 4A. No non-boundary school has even appeared in the final in that class since Lancaster Catholic way back in 2011. That’s a good combination for another WPIAL title in 3A from Woodland Hills — or from whomever else manages to come out of the Pittsburgh area in 2022.

    A separate point that I haven’t seen discussed in the forum recently: next year Berks County (which includes Wilson, which is already in the league, plus Governor Mifflin, Exeter, Berks Catholic, Wyomissing, etc.) will be joining the Lancaster-Lebanon League. The league will now have 38 teams, mostly in 4A, 5A & 6A. Hopefully that improves the overall quality of league play in the area. Section 4 will be especially competitive, with Cocalico, Lampeter-Strasburg, Berks Catholic, and Wyomissing all having appeared in the state semifinals and/or state finals since 2017.

  1040. Wpialguy says:

    @jeff h. I agree that Woodland Hills coaching staff is not great, but they have competed with the best in 5a despite their coaching. I think if they drop to 3a they will just dominate. Maybe not state champ favorite but I can see them being the wpial favorite. Can also seeing them play up to 4A because frankly a Woodland Hills- derry section game doesn’t exactly seem like it will go well for one party. I think the team to watch next year is Penn hills. Wpial semi finalist and they return almost their whole team. They were playing sophomores all over the field.

    My wpial sleeper next year is Seneca Valley

  1041. Brian says:

    Jeff H… Julian Fleming is on Ohio st and has seen the field every game. He doesn’t start because of olave. He was injured for a few games and didn’t play but over the last few weeks he’s been returning kicks and getting on the field. He scored his first career td against Michigan st. There was a cool picture of him scoring the td with his high school teammate cal Haladay on the field for Michigan st. Cal was named a freshmen all American. Fleming will get his time to shine when olave graduates and he will only be a sophomore.

  1042. Buddy says:


    Never said lower classes couldn’t beat 6A. Governor Mifflin would have beat North Penn, hell, so would Southern Columbia!

    NP last Hershey trip was 2011. However, they been in the playoffs 21 out of the last 22 years. They been in the

    eastern final (state semi-final) more than any other public school. You don’t have to go to the big dance every

    year to be successful team. Give NP no boundaries, then see how often they are in the state finals.

  1043. D11 Matt says:

    @Jeff…. Fleming is the starting punt returner and plays snaps here and there at WR. He was behind 3 very good wrs. Hopefully next year he will get playing time at WR. He had four catches last year in big ten championship when they had injuries to some WRS. He still had three years of eligibility due to last year being given back by NCAA due to covid. So he has three years left of eligibility. Maybe he transfers if he doesn’t get into starting lineup next year? He also didn’t red shirt so has that also.

  1044. Jeff H. says:

    @Buddy – since District 12 joined the PIAA in 2008 non-boundary schools are 8-6 against publics in 6A/4A, with public schools winning 2 of the last 5, in 5A/3A the non-boundary schools are 9-5 against the publics, although the publics have won 3 of the last 4,.and it would have likely been 4 in a row had Derrick Davis been able to play for Gateway against Wood in the semi-finals 2 years ago. As I and others have stated despite it’s flaws the success rule is having some positive impacts in helping to level the playing field a little bit, that’s one reason the publics have won 3 of the last 4 in 5A, and also a reason the games were so competitive last weekend, those championship games as a whole were the best we’ve seen in a long time in this state.

    @D3Mike – did a little research and you are correct, Singleton is the first Gatorade player of the year from PA since Ron Powlus in 1993. Speaking of Julian Fleming, is he still on the roster with Ohio State? They have a lot of great receivers but I have not seen him play a down in any of the Ohio State games I’ve watched so I’m wondering if he is still on the team? They are also loaded at QB so it will be interesting to see whether Kyle McCord transfers to another school like Phil Jurkovec did in transferring from Notre Dame to BC.

  1045. Jeff H. says:

    @Wpialguy – I hate to disagree with you about Woodland Hills since I live in the district and my both of my kids graduated from the school, but they are not going to be a state championship favorite in any class with their current coaching staff, by all accounts good men, but very mediocre football coaches, their record is very poor since Coach Novak retired after the 2016 season, and the school board has bigger issues to deal with than the declining football program. I totally agree with you about 5A, there will be different winners every year, just like there has been the last 4 years with Penn Hills, Gateway, PR and now Penn Trafford. If Aliquippa is forced to 5A which it appears they will be I make them the favorite next year with all the talent they have coming back.

    @Kevin X – I think it may have been mentioned on here already but Central Valley is moving to 4a next year due to enrollment so the success rule does not come into play for them.

    @JC – you should check your facts before you make stupid comments about Aliquippa, they have won 2 state titles in the last 4 years, or did you miss that title in 2018. They have also made the WPIAL final an amazing 14 years in a row all while playing up in class every year, which no other school in the WPIAL has come close to accomplishing, and you say they are an also ran? They lost in the WPIAL 4A final in OT to TJ last year, had they won that game they would be the two time defending 4A state champion, not too shabby for a school with 1A enrollment. There is no doubt in my mind if Aliquippa played 1A where their enrollment is they would win the state title almost every year, or at the very least 4 out of every 5 years. Fact is Aliquippa is one of the most storied programs in the history of high school football in PA, look how many of their players have made the NFL and are in the Hall of Fame. Aliquippa should be admired for playing up, not disrespected because of it, and football in this state would be better overall if some other schools followed their example.

    @D3Mike & Wilson4ever – totally agree with you guys about Nick SIngleton, he is a tremendous talent and it boggles the mind that he had 1 carry in the 2nd half against Exeter. I still think GM was the best team in 5A, had they beaten Exeter I think they would have likely beaten both Penn Trafford and Imhotep, but unfortunately we’ll never know. As we’ve all seen in the playoffs coaching can make a huge difference at the high school level

  1046. jc says:

    It should be called the cheating and winning rule. Southern will not have to move up because they have won but have not had the transfers come in. Aliquippa has, thus the cheating and winning rule applies.

  1047. irish1 says:

    @buddy, there are plenty of 3a,4a,and 5a teams that can and do whip up on “those big boys” in 6a every year across the state. Those North Penn ‘big boys” havent visited Hershey in quite sometime. They dont have to worry about those catholic schools you a such a problem with cause they have enough of a problem getting past the other “publics” in District one.

  1048. wpialguy says:

    If woodland hills drops to 3a, I think they immediately become the state championship favorite in that class.

  1049. wpialguy says:

    SO, it seems to me that a lot of schools are dropping to 5a, from 6a. So where are the 6a schools? Wpial 5a will be extremely competitive. One program will not dominate that class and I think you could see a different team winning for the next couple years.

  1050. Brian says:

    D3 Mike, I believe Southerns Julian Fleming was named Gatorade player of the year 2 years in a row but I could be mistaken. Maybe he was just a nominee for it.

  1051. mark dodgson says:

    talking about numbers for 2022 it my understanding that Scranton and Delaware Valley are both going to 5A that will change that class big time in the northeast

  1052. phillyboy says:

    @ Kevin X

    Yes my man, I’m serious about what I said — that large school districts should streamline and condense to have one football team, 100 emoji. Right off the bat though, it would never happen, there’s way too much complacency and inertia, these gyno administrators and school boards would have a hissy fit. (Allow me to digress for a moment, tbh that’s where I can appreciate the privates, they’re not constrained by group think idiocy, rather they see what the situation is and act accordingly, with free will are able to make deliberate, specific decisions to bring about a desired result, pretty nifty how that works.) But hypothetically speaking, if a school district like Central Bucks had one team, are you kidding me?! I’m smh in a good way. It stands to reason that the quality and strength of the team would improve as the best players would come together into the same starting lineup. Hey Bethlehem, you hear me clucking big chicken? If Liberty and Freedom combined, got to believe the D11/D12 state quarterfinal might finally have some intrigue. Heck, phillyboy might even start attending those quarterfinal games again. No, check that, not with the new ticket purchasing protocols in place, complete and utter BS — but that’s a whole other topic of discussion. Now there’s another possibility that’s more realistic: have open enrollment within these larger school districts that have multiple teams, becoming in effect a microcosm of the Philadelphia school district. That way the best players can all go to the same team a la Imhotep. Unofficially one team within the school district would be the de facto ‘A’ team.

  1053. Buddy says:

    I follow the big boys ’cause my team is one of the big boys, whether they’re good or bad. Don’t follow the CFL cause my

    team is in the NFL., don’t follow junior high wrestling cause my team is NCAA D1 wrestling. Having a hard time wrapping

    that around your head, eh?

  1054. Paul from Philly says:


    My bad. I thought you were saying that the PCL was ONLY represented in the 5A and 6A. So what you’re saying is…..and let me get this straight……you only follow the big boys but if they’re no good you could care less about them. You don’t want to waste your time with draigs. Narrow minded?? Buddy, did you ever play the game??

  1055. Kevin X says:

    Here are your 2022/23 – 2023/24 nominees (based only on my unofficial calculations) for promotion (sorry, can’t use the word “penalized”) to the next higher classification of competition by virtue of obtaining 6 or more “success points” during this past two year cycle:

    A: Bishop Guilfoyle and Redbank Valley
    2A: Southern Columbia
    3A: Central Valley and Wyomissing
    4A: Jersey Shore and Aliquippa
    5A: Erie Cathedral Prep

    Of course this is only half of the equation, as you still need to have 3 or more athletic transfers during the same time period to be promoted. I have no clue who has what in terms of transfers. Fairly strong and consistent rumors that I have seen are that Guilfoyle, Aliquippa and ECP are in that 3+ transfer boat. Then there are the inevitable appeals, and who knows……even lawsuits???

  1056. Buddy says:

    @ paul:

    Hmmm. Trying to think how many times Bonner, Carroll & O’Hara have been to the states. Somewhere in there must be

    Ryan, Lansdale catholic, Devon prep and Conwell Egan, just can’t seem to pin-point when. Give me the 5A & 6A private

    schools that been in the finals in the last 15 years, instead of grabbing at straws on schools that never make it.

    BTW, what lives in my head is what happened to SJP this year. Looking forward to that again.

  1057. jc says:

    I love how every year the same people use the same school as evidence that southern Columbia should move up in class. Aliquippa, aliquippa is all you here every year. And you base this on aliquippa moving up for more competition. You never talk about the fact that aliquippa rarely wins championships anymore and that quite a few state titles were taken away because they thought it was more important to perceive yourself as better than what they r. You never take away championships for hs kids and that’s what aliquippa did. Sure they won a state title this year, but that’s not a given. So it’s better to take winning and championships away and it’s better to prove yourself as an also ran? I don’t get it.

  1058. D3 Mike says:

    Congrats to Gatorade National Football Player of the Year, Nick Singleton of Governor Mifflin! I think this is PA’s first winner since Ron Paulus?

    Pepperidge Farms remembers… just two years ago, when multiple people in this forum said that this kid was “overrated”, and that his rushing yards were “empty” as they came against “the Little Sisters of the Poor” in the Berks League. Look at him now.

    Shame that the GM coach only gave him the ball once in the second half versus Exeter. Would have loved to have seen him go up against PT’s and Imhotep’s great front-7s.

    Wishing him best of luck at Penn State. The program needs all the help it can get.

  1059. Paul from philly says:


    Sorry McDevitt is gone. My bad. But I’ll raise you Lansdale Catholic, Devon Prep and Conwell-Egan. My gosh, you really don’t know what you’re talking about do you? Or you’re just blinded by the notion of the PCL.

  1060. Paul from philly says:


    Geez I forgot about Ryan and McDevitt too. There ain’t as many as there were but just enough to get in your head. Have a great Holiday thinking about next year’s St. Joe team!!

  1061. Paul from philly says:


    Well let’s see: West Catholic, Bonner, Carroll, O’Hara, those are just a few who are not in 5 or 6. You should know what you’re talking about.

    Only care about 6A. Who narrow minded?? St. Joe lives in your head rent free!! Enjoy!!!

  1062. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy, I agree that SJP was (probably) the more talented team, but the difference in experience was evident, e.g. the Prep getting signals crossed on a couple of kickoff returns and their QB trying to do a bit too much at times, e.g. trying to force the ball on at least one of the interceptions.. There were also a couple of bad coaching decisions at the end of the half when they were inside the ten, going for a field goal when the ball was on the hash mark being one of them. That’s a super difficult kick to make, especially in a strong wind. Credit, though, to ML for making a couple of tough stops on the previous plays.

    The first quarter fumble was obviously huge, but there was another possibly game deciding play a few minutes into the fourth quarter. After the Agard interception the Prep, down 21-17, ran a passing play where Washington was wide open at about the SJP 40, but the ball was very underthrown. It’s the kind of pass Jones was making in the first half, and as we saw how Washington can run with the ball after a catch. But because the play didn’t work the Prep had to punt from fairly deep in their territory which is where the whole rest of the game was played. Of course, this is from a Prep perspective.

    As for 2003 I remember both North Penn and SJP fans saying their team would have beat the other team. All seemed to want a game between the two to prove it.

    My guess, after watching the Prep play both GV and ML, is that a ML-GV game would have been over pretty early. And if SJP’s season had ended after the second LaSalle game, there would have been something like the 2003 talk about the “what ifs”? No?

  1063. Buddy says:


    I thought Wood was 5A. My bad. So GV is that small they qualify for 5A?

    That’s a shame. They’re a powerhouse at 6A. SJP probably chased them.

  1064. Buddy says:

    Yo Paul:

    You said public won 18 and privates 6. But the privates don’t have schools in the lower classes! Privates are essentially

    5A & 6a. So give me a stat on those classes the last 15 years. Mull that over in your narrow little mind!

  1065. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Buddy

    So you choose to follow only the BIG BOYS. That is your choice. But in the grand scheme of things you can’t just throw out the rest of the results because you don’t like them, you don’t care or you just like to argue. You can’t see the forrest for the trees. “I follow 6A only!” Snob!! And there are no sour grapes on this end. St. Joe and the rest of the PCL aint going anywhere. Have fun with that thought!!

  1066. Ryan says:

    Wood, Roman, Garnet Valley going to 5A

  1067. Buddy says:


    Frankly (bad pun), i think SJP is a more talented team then Mt. Lebo. The breaks went Mt. Lebo’s way.

    Even more so with Tep and PT. Tep is definitely the better team, PT got the breaks. If garnet Valley had beat Prep,

    yes, Mt. Lebo would have been just as satisfied. I think your point is if the privates weren’t in the PIAA playoffs,

    would the publics be satisfied winning the final? Well, we wouldn’t know the difference. Just like before 2008,

    we didn’t really know how good the privates were. North Penn won the states in 2003 (destroyed PCC), Wound up ranked 8th in the

    country. Same year, SJP was ranked 3rd in the country. The SJP fanatics on this site said SJP would have beat NP by 3 TD’s.

    Maybe they would have or maybe not (wouldn’t have won by 3 TD’s tho). But we didn’t know. So yes, we were satisfied.

  1068. Wilson4Ever says:

    ONE LAST THING!!! Is it just me or does the State Championship Trophies look rather dull and not very exciting to look at the last few years. They just look like a hunk of wood with some writing on it? They used to look great before with a Golden Football and a map of the State of Pennsylvania on a nice wooden base. It’s supposed to represent WE ARE THE VERY BEST!!! These trophies should be BOLD, BRIGHT, and SHOWY representing the blood, sweat, and tears to took to claim this very difficult prize. I don’t know who changed them and for what reason but IMO they don’t POP OUT AT YOU and look very uninspiring to me.I don’t know if this was a cost cutting thing to save money for the PIAA but that should never be the case because all these young men and their communities deserve something very special that they can look at and treasure in their high school trophy cases forever. Because if some high schools ever win a state championship it might be the last one they ever get. But if they ever get more they are all supposed to represent a very special moment in time. Maybe it’s just me but let me know how others feel about this. They should always look extremely special and never cheap IMO.

  1069. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) BTW Jeff H I did agree with you on last year’s Governor Mifflin-Pine-Richland game and I’m not really trying to flip flop hear. The point I’m trying to make is that I just thought the blown call that lead to a touchdown against GM just made it a little easier for PR to win but I have no doubt the main reason they beat Mifflin last year was because PR’s coaches made the better critical adjustments through out the game and the Governor Mifflin staff didn’t. Like you said in high school football a lot of times teams with lesser talent beat better teams because of better coaching. A huge case in point this year was when one of the biggest upsets in District III history happened when Exeter Twp. beat Governor Mifflin the heavy favorite to win this year’s 5A State Title. I think that came down to a coaching breakdown for GM. I hate to say it but I feel that should have never happened.

  1070. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) I also think that Governor Mifflin lost this year’s 5A District III championship game in a huge upset to Exeter Twp.because they were out coached and that was a terrible thing for GM because that should have never happened because I feel they had a hell of a lot more talent than Exeter Twp. especially with having Nick Singleton the #1 running back in the country on their team who is a beast. From what I heard there is quite a few outraged Governor Mifflin fans who would agree with me. Governor Mifflin was loaded this year and probably could have even beaten most of the 6A teams in the state except for the two in the 6A Final IMO and were even better than last year’s 2020 team that lost that close game to that powerful Pine-Richland team.

  1071. Wpialguy says:

    Over on this side of the state, i am just wondering when some of these smaller schools will be forced into mergers. Economically irresponsible to have as many small schools as we do. Keeps taxes high and resources low. But the same pride that allows these public schools to win and band together is also the pride that does not want consolidation. Some of these single a schools need saved, and the kids deserve more. Part of why wpial individual talent is down is in these smaller schools the kids do not have to compete against anyone within their own school for spots.

    In beaver county, you could merge half the schools and most would still be within the 3,4,5A range. Biggest school in the county is one of the smallest schools in 4A.

  1072. Ryan says:

    Garnet Valley is going down to 5A

  1073. Wilson4Ever says:

    (Jeff H) Oh BTW I honestly do agree with you Jeff H 100% about last year’s Governor Mifflin-PineRichland 5A Semi-Final game and I’m not trying to flip flop here. What I mean is even though I didn’t mention it I also feel very strongly that better coaching can win many important high school games even if a team might have less talent. But the exact point that I was trying to make was that I thought that blown call against Governor Mifflin made it a little easier for Pine-Richland to beat GM but I have no doubt that the PR coaching staff made better adjustments the entire game and agree with you that it was probably the main reason they won.

  1074. FrankG says:

    @Buddy Do you think the Mount Lebanon players would have preferred playing Garnett Valley on Saturday? Do you think victory would have been as satisfying? And do you think the game would have been as good?

  1075. Kevin X says:


    For the love of God, please tell me you’re joking. I toss out my fair of sarcasm on this board, maybe it’s a case of I can dish it out, but I am clueless when I see it. I enjoy your posts, but man, if you are serious, you went completely off the reservation with this one. Combine teams within a school district that have multiple schools all in the name to win precious championship for District One?? Have you ever been to a Downingtown West/East game before?? If not, I suggest you put it on your HS football bucket list. There is more atmosphere at that game year in year out than the six games played this weekend in Hershey combined. I can rant on forever with your post in so many different directions, but I’ll leave it where it is.

  1076. Buddy says:

    Yo Paul:

    I follow 6A only. Prep won 3 out of the last 4 finals. Big school publics still don’t have parity!

    Go back to eating your sour grapes!

  1077. d4dude says:

    @Jeff H
    If you watched the game you would of realized southern didn’t “go for 2”. It was a bobbled snap that turned into a 2 pt conversion.
    How do you teach kids to “take plays off”. I’m assuming your team didn’t make it far by your mentality on things. And no one cares if you respect them or not.

  1078. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff & Thomas, I’ll put this into perspective, because it’s something I didn’t realize until recently… I always thought boundary vs. non-boundary was an issue throughout the state. While it is to some degree, it’s much more acute in the SE. According to 247 (eye roll) 19 of the top 47 seniors in the state are from D1 or D12, which is statistically in the ballpark for what is should be. However, only three of those 19 play for public non-charter schools (two in D1 and one in D12). The talent is there, but it’s very concentrated and it’s not at District One schools.

  1079. Paul from Philly says:

    Play the game!! Just like Mt. Lebanon did. Instead all we get are Johnny’s daddys complaining how life aint fair!! Good thing Lebo didn’t listen.

  1080. Paul from Philly says:

    @Buddy. Parity between the pubs and privates?? The pubs have won 18 chapionships to the Privates 6. Parity is supposed to be 50-50. “Oh they’re too big, too strong, too D1 for us.” You guys are a bunch of cry babies when it comes to this subject.

  1081. phillyboy says:

    Some of you guys have been diplomatic in hinting or implying that District 1 has been coming up small. As a long time resident of SE PA I can be a little more blunt. In the past I’ve desribed District 1 as “a malaise of mediocrity”. After further review I feel compelled to downgrade it to ‘pure dreck’. I’ll give a little consideration or credit to North Penn and Coatesville, but that’s about it, they have a little bit of fight in them. By and large, though, District 1 football is the epitome of ‘going through the motions’ and yes, mediocrity. In fact Salieri from the movie Amadeus is their patron saint, lol. Outside of getting a sudden dose of heart, what can D1 do? There is something very practical that some large, suburban school districts can do right away. A commenter recently parroted an idea that phillyboy himself mentioned a while back — delete redundant teams within the same school district. For example, Central Bucks could have 1 team instead of 3, Downingtown could have a unified team once again hearkening back to their dominant 90’s teams. Or how about Central Dauphin with a single team? If necessary they could rename the HS to original name albeit with E and W campus, or whatever. Conversely, could you imagine if North Penn had succeeded in splitting into two several years ago? A North Penn East and a North Penn West would be a joke, so watered down. As far as less kids getting a chance to play, I say tough bananas, beat it, join the French Club or something. Football already has 22 positions plus special teams whereas basketball only has 5 positions.

  1082. Matt says:

    Major congrats to Mt. Lebo. Huge victory and excellent performance to cap an amazing season. As always, Prep will be back next year. Really have to hand it to Mt. Lebo though, what an excellent team.

  1083. Kevin X says:

    Total attendance for Hershey: 19,822 Breakdown:
    2563 for 1A
    4306 for 4A
    3174 at 2A
    2679 for 5A
    3405 for 3A
    3965 for 6A

    3,304 average per game.

    I do not know if those number represent tickets sold or actual people thru the turnstiles and physically at the game(s) (or some other form of calculations).

  1084. Kevin X says:

    @ TF

    As a follow-on observation, if Imhotep did play last year, hypothetically, and probably probability wise, ECP and Imhotep would have meet in last year’s 5A quarter final like they did this year. Who knows who would have won that game, but If Imhotep won that game, ECP would not have accumulated the 6 or more success points this recent cycle to qualify to be bumped up to 6A. What is also interesting in their case from last year, they only played in one playoff game (two Covid FFWs) to advance to the championship game to get those 4 points that you get slapped with in playing in that game. And to add insult to injury, they proceeded to get smoked by Pine-Richland in that game.

  1085. D3 MIke says:

    Jeff makes good points about both the tradition of Heinz Field and the fact that high school football receives exponentially more coverage on the TV, radio, and newspapers in the WPIAL. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh doesn’t have an NBA basketball team and has nothing like the Big 5 in college basketball. That area (Pittsburgh) shares similarities in those regards to the coal region of northern PA. When those facts get coupled with the specialization of sports due to increased competition for scholarships, you have to wonder if that doesn’t translate to a higher percentage of athletes in those areas playing football than they do in other parts of the states. I remember when it was a given to go from football to basketball to baseball if you were a decent athlete, but that’s less and less the case these days. Kids have to make more choices and I wonder if more players in the greater Philadelphia area, for example, don’t choose to specialize in basketball. It’s mind-boggling to me that Reading High can win 2 of the last 6A state titles in basketball but can’t get any of those athletes on the football field to run a spread offense, but that’s today’s world.

    One thing overlooked amidst the discussions about the WPIAL winning 4 titles and the public schools performing better this year is the competitiveness of the state final games. Thomas makes a good point about the success factor seeming to make an impact in terms of public programs performing better in recent years. The games were also much closer this year than in years past. This was the first year where 5 of the state title games were within a touchdown in the 4th quarter. I think the success factor played a part in that, and hopefully it continues.

    Last thing, not sure if it was mentioned and I didn’t watch the game, but from what I read on Twitter, SCA was kneeling the ball up 30 with 2 minutes left and Serra was using their timeouts to stop the clock. That’s when SCA stopped kneeling, ran the ball, and scored their 70-yard TD. In that scenario, I don’t have a problem with SCA running a play. If it were me, I probably would have still kneeled it but I at least understand why they ran a play. I do take issue with them going for the 2-point conversion, though.

  1086. Thomas Foley says:

    The success factor, which was implemented in 2018 is having an impact. Publics have won 18 championships to the privates 6 10-2 the last 2 years 4 of the private wins during that timespan came from Prep-(3) and Wood-(1) what’s interesting is that if TEP played last year and McDevitt didn’t get screwed out of the playoffs last year due to points both programs would have been placed in the next highest classification next year. TEP to 6A McDevitt to 5A. Next year with Wood moving down to 5A, you have Wood and TEP going head to head in the East. Erie Cathedral Prep is moving up to 6a, in the past ECP could have played with St. Joe Prep, however, Erie’s population isn’t what it used to be and they have no chance of winning a State Championship at that level. St. Joe Prep is in the highest classification so the success factor has no impact on them. The elephant in the room is District 1, their is no reason, with all of those large schools in the district that they can’t produce a Penn Trafford or Mt. Lebanon type team every once in a while.

  1087. Buddy says:

    Well, it was a very good year. My team didn’t go as far in the playoffs as I was hoping (and thought), but that’s ok.

    The publics showed there is a little bit , not much, parity in high school football. Probably won’t happen again for quite some time.

    Temporarily halts the discussion of splitting the privates and publics, not sure if that’s good or bad.

    So, I’ll babble at you guys’ next year.

  1088. Jeff H says:

    @Brian – my mentality is what’s wrong with sports and life? You have it exactly backwards, I don’t think SC should voluntarily move up to give other schools a chance, I’m not one for participation trophies, the reason they should move up is to challenge their kids, and because it’s the right thing to do. Many schools voluntarily play up, most notably Aliquippa, but there are plenty of others, because they want to push their kids and play a higher level of competition. I don’t care if SC wins 10 state titles in a row, they are head and shoulders above every other program in 2A and prove absolutely nothing winning 2A year after year. Why just continue to coast through 2A when you can play tougher competition, you don’t improve much at anything in life unless you challenge yourself, I frankly think SC is doing their kids a disservice by not playing up in the playoffs, they play up a lot during the regular season, but come playoff time they go back to destroying 2A just so they can say they won another state title.

    As for their game on Friday, when you have a 30 point lead in the last minute you do not run regular plays that result in a 70 yard touchdown run, you show some class and take a knee, or instruct your players to run out of bounds and not go on a 70 yard run, because it’s the right thing to do, I don’t care if if it’s the 2nd string or the ball boy playing, you do not score on a 70 yard touchdown in that situation, period, end of story. I stand by my earlier comments, I lose more respect for SC’s program every year because all they care about is demolishing the competition in 2A, time to man up and play up in the playoffs, because it’s the right thing to do for your kids.

  1089. Jeff H says:

    Since D12 joined the PIAA in 2008 in the state playoffs the WPIAL public schools are 7-5 against their powerhouse non-boundary schools, 2-2 vs SJP, 1-0 against LaSalle, 2-0 against Imhotep, and 2-3 against Wood, although if Derrick Davis doesn’t get hurt in the WPIAL championship game against Peters Twp 2 years ago and is able to play the following week Gateway more than likely beats Wood, they lost on a last minute field goal, and with Davis playing they probably win that game. So the question is why can the public schools in the western part of the state compete with and beat the non-boundary D12 powerhouse teams while other districts struggle and often get blown out.

    D3Mike is absolutely correct, part of the reason is the only big school non-boundary in the WPIAL is PCC, as I’ve stated on here before the publics have been competing with PCC for decades, and the traditional powers don’t lose too many players to PCC, its usually kids from schools like Fox Chapel and Norwin and others that don’t have much of a football tradition. All the other Catholic schools in the area are 1A-3A, with North Catholic being the largest, but they aren’t drawing too many kids from the top public programs

    Another part is coaching, I disagree with D3Mike on the coaching aspect, look at the list of coaches who beat the D12 schools, Bill Cherpak at TJ, Eric Pine Richland, and now Bob Palko with Lebo, just phenomenal coaches who built programs from grade school on up. I told my Mt Lebo friends, a few who were at the game last night, that when they hired Palko 3 yrs ago they would win a WPIAL title and compete for a state title within 3 years, because I knew he would change the culture and have the talent to be competitive on the state level.

    D3 Mike also makes a very good point about playing for a “regional title”, the WPIAL encompasses 7-8 counties, and the goal for these programs for years has been to get to Heinz Field for the “regional championship”, and before that it was get to 3 Rivers Stadium, there is an awful lot of pride for these schools just to get to Heinz to compete for the district title. Western Pa takes its high school football very seriously, what other district has all 6 of their championship games on local TV? The Lebo game last night was on KDKA radio, the dominant AM radio station in the area that can be heard in a dozen or more states, I can’t imagine a Philly radio or TV station doing that, hell, the Inquirer doesn’t even cover high school sports anymore.

    There is a different mindset around this part of the state, we know the non-boundary schools have some big advantages, but the top schools around here will take on anyone and try and figure out how to beat them, not make excuses or complain about the system being unfair. Yes Palko made some comments about SJP being an all-star team and drawing kids from multiple states, Bill Cherpak made the same type of comments about Erie Prep several years ago, but both of these guys made these comments to inspire their players it was and create the mindset it was them against the world. TJ lost to ECP 3 straight years from 2015-17, then finally got over the hump and beat them in 2019, I was at that game at North Hills and I can tell you the pride in finally beating ECP was very evident and meant more to the players and the community than if they had just beaten another public school.

    Yes there are flaws with the system, but I think I speak for the vast majority of people in the western part of the state that we in no way want a separate playoff with publics and non-boundary schools, if you want to be considered the best team in PA you have to beat the best, and figure out ways to improve your program to compete on a statewide level, I realize that’s a lot easier said than done for a lot of schools, but it can be done, there’s no reason a school like North Penn, for example, can’t win a 6A title

  1090. Wpialguy says:

    What’s being missed in some of these arguments is yes, Philly area has more options as far as Catholic schools and private schools, but the population of the Philly metro area is about 3.5 million more than the population of Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh area only has 7 6A schools. The sheer amount i of schools in the East should, in theory create more chances for them to win.

  1091. David Mika says:

    Thank you, D11 Matt! Happy Holidays!

  1092. D11 Matt says:


    It was a great season that ended with some great championship games! Most competitive games in Hershey that iv seen in a while. Hopefully that continues next year! Have a Merry Christmas and a great holiday season! Only about 8 months until next season!

    Dave…..thanks for running this site! A great high school football site that is a go to during the season and also in the off season with schedules, historical info, etc!

  1093. 4th&Forever says:

    Jeff, my bad about saying N-G won a state championship. Looked that up after I posted it and saw I was wrong, unfortunately this format doesn’t allow quick corrections. As for the rest, I should just say “see D3 Mike” because he gets and articulates the issue with privates in D1 & D12. Nowhere else in the state are public schools getting beat by their own kids like they are in SE PA, so if you’re in the other 10 districts it’s easier to say “what’s the problem?” Because this forum tends to focus on championships, it doesn’t even recognize the seven or so Inter-Ac schools who don’t participate in the playoffs but get many of the best athletes in the region.

    Also, I take slight umbrage at the implication the public schools in SE PA don’t work as hard or aren’t coached as well as the rest of the state. There are no doubt some cultural differences regarding what football means to different communities, but 20 years ago SE PA public schools were as competitive as anywhere else in the state. Beyond a handful of programs like Coatesville, who because of its location doesn’t face the same pressure to keep players from being recruited that schools closer in do, that’s no longer true.

    Anyway, enough “airing of grievances” (for now) about things that aren’t gonna change. Congratulations to all the fans of the winners of some great games and upsets, and for the rest of us, the preseason begins today. Wait ‘til next year!

  1094. FrankG says:

    @D3 Mike Thanks for your explanation of the difference between the Pittsburgh area and the Philly area. It makes a lot of sense.

    Just a note: it is by no means the case that Catholic schools in the Philly area have recently started “draining” top talent from public schools. You could go back to the great Bishop Egan teams of the 60s, to Bonner (which had John Cappelletti, Heisman winner while at Penn State) in the late 60s. There was Maurice Stovall at Carroll, Kevin Jones at O’Hara, Rich Gannon at SJP, etc. If anything, the shrinking of Catholic schools in the Philly area has meant that public schools get a higher proportion certainly of students and, in many cases, of student-athletes than they did two or three decades ago. Maybe one big difference is that Catholic schools, including SJP, in the last decade or two have started welcoming non-Catholic students–something that was not done for athletic purposes. But it has certainly had an impact on sports.

    One thing not mentioned on this board is race. I’m sure everyone has noticed that a higher proportion of both players and star players are Black. That’s increasingly obvious. At least in the Philly area because the great majority of Blacks are not Catholics, most Black people didn’t consider Catholic schools. Now more of them do–again, mostly for reasons having nothing to do with sports. But it has meant that, for instance, D’Andre Swift (whose family, I’m 98% sure, are not Catholics) considered both LaSalle and SJP before choosing SJP.

  1095. Gary Z says:

    They will be bumped up, and still will perform. I don’t know bout ladies on this site… I know the WPIAL is dominant. I know D7 is the biggest. Trust me the programs w Sr. Heavy teams, don’t rebuild, they reload. SCA is what it is. I respect their achievements. But they will do all they can to stay outta 3A

  1096. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, we disagree on what the results show. For clarity, there is no Malvern Prep outside of Pittsburgh, let alone anything approximating the Inter-AC. The traditional of Catholic schools around Pittsburgh is also nothing like the tradition in other parts of the state. Of equal importance, the public school tradition of playing for things like regional titles in Pittsburgh is stronger — it goes back generations, whereas in the East it’s always been a county and league based system. As a result, WPIAL public programs tend to keep more of their talent.

    Beaver County has zero Catholic schools. None. And the County sends a public to the state finals each year. Before the last HS closed, that Catholic school had no football pedigree. Do we really think this is a coincidence? Similar situation with SCA, Mt. Carmel, Berwick, and the historic coal region powers.

    The publics that win don’t win because they have better weight programs or coaches. And don’t get me wrong, they all have awesome weight programs, community commitment, family buy-in, a strong work ethic among the players, etc. They do EVERYTHING right. So this is in no way a bitter grapes argument.

    My point is that many of them win state titles, in part, because they keep 95% of their elite players instead of only 80% of their elite players — which is what happens to a lot of other public schools in the East. If you dropped Prep in the middle of Beaver County, you wouldn’t see a 3A state title winner every year because those schools wouldn’t keep all of their players. I’m not saying those programs wouldn’t still be awesome. My argument is that losing 1 or 2 players makes the difference between a win or a loss in Hershey. This weekend’s results highlight how much privates drain talent, where they exist.

  1097. Wpialguy says:

    Interestingly 3/4 of the wpial teams that won were completely senior loaded. Trafford, Lebo, and Central Valley will all have difficulty making it back next year so i predict we will have new blood once again. Also Central Valley is moving up to 4A on enrollment alone, so they will have to make it past Thomas Jefferson, McKeesport, and others.

  1098. Jc says:

    If the wpial seem to be built better and r quicker then they should forced to be bumped up another class. Every wpial school should be moved up because they have an unfair advantage and they enjoy winning state titles a little to much. Lol losers. Southern Columbia is won a state title easily with 38 kids playing on there football team. Deal with it. I don’t even have anything to do with southern football. I went to north schuylkill and I don’t care about southern Columbia but I love getting on here every year and listen to cry babies whine about southern Columbia. Let me just explain something to you people. If you move teams up based solely on them being good how do you take care of a team like st. Joes prep? They’re already in the highest bracket so all you do is penalize the class a thru 5a schools??? You tell a school that your to good and we don’t want you to win anymore? R these woman who r messaging on this site??? Lol

  1099. D11 Matt says:

    About southern playing in class that they are put in….that’s correct. But after five state championships in a row where no playoff or state championship has been within three scores at end, they have the option to challenging themselves and playing up. I respect them and what they have done but they would have had a much more competitive 3A tournament then mercy ruling everyone in the 2A tournament. They would have been a top 5 3A team and would have probably had a rematch with Wyomissing. And that game would have been close. The first one they turned it over five times. Yes…..they play challenging regular season schedules every year but then don’t get challenged at all when titles are on the line. Like they said…..they know they will be in Hershey every year and kind of coast through the playoffs. Even St Joe’s gets challenged every once in a while (2015, 2017, Freedom and LaSalle and in state championship this year).

  1100. Gary Z says:

    Your right, Mt. Lebanon is a Very Nice place. They are actually probably the wealthiest school district in WPIAL. If not, very close. That’s a big money area to say the least.

  1101. Gary Z says:

    SCA fans I’m not hating, but if ya truly believe your that good. You should walk through 3A. The Quips will be moved to 5A, I know, @Jeff H said it best. It’s ok for the Quips, because they have 3 transfers who never see the field. I hope the Quips win the 5A. I think the would have beat ‘Tep or St. Joes. I honestly do. To big, to athletic and too much speed. Remember the QB is a Soph, the RB is a 14 year old FR. I wanna see em win 5A. C.V. will be bumped up, they won’t appeal it. Heck CV and the Quips play each year in a non conference game. Just think if the Quips played in 1A. It would be so absurd week to week. Much worse than what SCA does to teams each week. You would see at least 4 teams forfeit each year.

  1102. Gary Z says:

    Two great posts, completely agree with you.
    Great points. I actually noticed, the WPIAL kids seemed to be built a little better, thicker n more muscular. Also seemed to be way more physical n stronger at the point of attack. Maybe I am being biased and don’t know it, but I certainly feel that way. I know where I coach, and all schools I have been at, have EXCELLENT off season weightlifting programs. Just my observation. Also, I said it before, SCA does not want to compete in State playoffs. They want to win blowout State championships. PIAA move em up to 3A. SCA fans, if they are that good you will have no problems. Prediction here, they get bumped up by PIAA… Roth will retire. I call it now.

  1103. Foleman says:

    Great games this weekend with some incredible coaching and some heads scratching decisions. The HC from Central Valley played to win, the TEP Coach played to lose, which they did. When you have a stud running back like McLeod and you can’t think you can get 1 yard with a few minutes left, you deserve to lose. The WPIAL is the king of Pa football, however, the Prep with all their talent will still probably win on average 3 state championships every 5 years, I don’t know what to say about S. Columbia, no doubt the top program in the State, but they skirt the transfer rule by having football players move into the district after 8 grad