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2021 Football Forum

Written by: on Monday, January 7th, 2019. Follow David Mika on Twitter.


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2021 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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2,185 Responses to “2021 Football Forum”

  1. bub says:

    @KEVIN X aside from delaware valley, dunmore tries to step up it seems. they usually play a couple larger schools, prep, n.pocono, western wayne, . also they have added wyoming area , and i don’t know what happened exactly but they had scheduled southern columbia and then that was not allowed and the schedule changed . not sure but i think the league disallowed it. But i agree the single A is terrible and the entire league, all 6 divisions have probably only 8 -to- 10 competitive teams.

  2. Blakely Bear says:

    @Kevin X
    Couple points on D2. Don’t know why Montrose forfeited, but even before Covid their numbers were too low to sustain a program if any injuries occur. In the early 2000’s, a merger of WVC and LL was tried, lasted 2 years, nobody liked it, attendance was down, worse than it is now, and it was scrapped. The dynamic in D2, especially in the LL, is that there are excellent programs in AA, AAA, and AAAA, but not so much in A, AAAAA, and 6A. Old Forge ha no competition in A, virtually a bye into the state playoffs. As far as DV is concerned, they step out of D2, because geographically they don’t belong in the District, and in the 7 games they play in the LL, with the exception of Scranton, they have an overwhelming advantage in boys 9-12

  3. Kevin X says:

    @ bub, et al

    Montrose just forfeited to Old Forge, so now OF has potentially 2 off weeks in a row. The rest of their schedule is mediocre at best, only real challenge is the last game against Trail. You guys have a competition and scheduling issue going on up there in D2 for what I can see from down here. I suggest reevaluating the schedules and leagues, maybe combine the WVC and LL with some more parity and open up the early part of the season to more out of district games. Really only see Del Val stepping out of the D2 comfort zone and taking on some real competition early in the season.

  4. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X thanks for that. After their loss to Malvern, its hard for me to see Wood sniffing anything in the playoffs outside the PCL 1-4 games. I expect them to be 3 and Roman 4. 1-2 get decided October 2nd.

  5. mark dodgson says:

    @ Kevin x and bud it a question lot of people around here are asking a Prep Dallas match up would have been a great game and made a lot of. séance i don’t think any of the schools reached out for a game their talking about making up the games but when ??? whole thing seems weird to be honest, now how it gong to affect play off points is another story we now have at least 5 teams who will have 9 games played, Bub as for old forge to the playoff they qualify if their record is 0-10 we now only have 2 1 a teams in D2 and they both make the playoff so what difference would it make ?

  6. bub says:

    @Kevin x i was wondering the same thing. first, dunmore it seems had no positive tests only contact tracing identified 9 players as having contact { i guess} with the lake lehman player who was covid positive. this is crazy to me kinda think if dunmore was not having a down year they would not be so willing to sit out a week. either way i think it is absolutely crazy to not play this game. also there was not a peep in the media regarding old forge looking for a replacement opponent or scranton prep . they easily could have played each other but I’m guessing that old forge would not want that game not wanting to have a loss on their record, figuring prep would win .yet although dunmore is not so good this year old forge beat dunmore and prep is regularly on dunmore’s schedule. along that line old forge does not have a tough game on their schedule, a loss to prep would not have derailed what is really a cakewalk into the single A playoffs.

  7. Kevin X says:

    @ The Joneses

    Yes, it would make sense, a lot of sense, but we are dealing with………..”The Board acted upon the following recommendations from the Strategic Planning Committee;
    Denied a request to declare that, for Competition Classification Formula purposes, students
    who change schools due to a school closing are not to be counted as a transfer students.”

    But in the positive for Wood to move back down………”On a second reading basis, it was unanimously voted to modify the Competition Classification Formula to allow a Team to drop in a competition classification from the previous cycle if the Team had 0 competition points, regardless of the number of transfers.”

    Both quotes come from the summary of the recent PIAA meeting. So if Wood doesn’t get crazy and win some later D12 playoff games, they may be in line to move back down.

  8. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X – I’m not so sure SJP is as big of a favorite as in years past, it certainly appears LaSalle has closed the gap significantly and we’ll find out how much in a few weeks

    @NW PA – TJ has a huge game this week against rival Belle Vernon, BV is very good and I think they are the only team that has a chance to challenge TJ for the WPIAL title

  9. Kevin X says:

    One other item, mainly to you D2 guys…..I did not see any scores over the weekend from Dallas, Scranton Prep or Old Forge. None of them were able (or willing) to pick up a game?? So a juicy Dallas/Scranton Prep match-up was basically left on the table?? Any reason given as to why none of these teams were able to secure a game?? Seems like there was enough lead time, and in this current environment we’re in, to be flexible and nimble is a necessity, and to play a game while you can.

  10. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I am thinking Wood will be allowed to move solely because the transfers came from a school that closed. It would make sense, but the PIAA rules are murky. I like your Covid swap suggestion also.

    @NorthwestPA we will see 6A picture a little clearer after the SJP vs LaSalle match up. I am not a believer in there offense yet, but the defense is stingy.

  11. Kevin X says:

    Tuesday morning musings……

    Any chance the powers that be can work out a non-Covid swapping of dance partners for this weekend?? Can we get Malvern Prep meet up with Gov. Mifflin and let Berks Catholic take on EA (instead of MP @ BC and Mifflin @ EA)??

    @ The Joneses

    Trying to figure out this competition formula for teams that previous moved up and the PIAA’s potential tweaking of the rules going forward. Meaning Wood may still be stuck up in 6A next cycle regardless of how they do the rest of this season. I’m hoping they can drop back to 5A where they should be, but that asinine transfer clause as it now stands tied to the success formula points may screw them. I believe a PIAA second reading passed where if a team has zero success points in the past two years, they may be able to drop back regardless of their number of transfers. Kind of confusing tho.

    @ NWPA
    No, 6A in not more challenging. St. Joe’s is above and beyond the rest by a good margin. Kind of a shame, because if you exclude SJP, 6A does then get real interesting and wide open.

  12. Northwest PA says:

    I’m fairly confident of a few things right now. GM is the best team in 5A, Tep is two. TJ is the best team in 4A. SC is the best team in 2A though Farrel is probably number two. 6A is more challenging, you could make an argument for at least 4 different teams (La Salle, Joe’s, Harrisburg, etc).

  13. Jeff H. says:

    @Neutral Observer – Ditto, big shoutout to Wyoming for a tremendous effort, and also SC for mounting the comeback in the 2nd half, I read the writeup and it sounded like a fantastic high school football game. Would have been really interesting if Wyoming would have scored on fourth and goal from the 1 yard line with a little over 3 minutes to go when they were clinging to a 1 point lead, if they scored there to go up 7 do you go for 2 and the dagger, or kick the extra point to go up 8 and still give SC a chance to come back and tie with a TD and 2 point conversion. I would have been seriously tempted to go for 2 in that scenario if I was the Wyoming coach, and if you don’t make it and SC subsequently scored a TD and made the 2 pointer and you lose by a point so be it.

    3 more wins to go to break Clairton’s state record of 66 straight set by the Tyler Boyd led teams of 2009-12, arguably the most impressive win streak in state history was CB West with 59 straight in the largest classification before Erie Prep beat them in the classic OT state final in 2000.

  14. Brandon says:

    Wilson should be good they usually have 100 kids to pick from and Manheim Central usually has 45 to 50.

  15. Mike in Tacony says:

    Wilson definitely has the talent, coaches, and pedigree to run the regular season table! My point was that Manheim Central, Hempfield, and Manheim Township have good football teams — and are probably all better than Exeter — who already beat Wilson this year.

  16. The Joneses says:

    I was following the SC game via twitter and it seemed like one the best games this weekend.

    Anyone see the Wood VS Malvern game? I was really surprised Wood couldn’t score a point. I am guessing the McDevitt transfers didn’t tilt the scales for Wood too much and this was their first 6A level test. Malvern and LaSalle played a close one a couple of weeks ago. I still seem them making a run deep next year in either 4A or 5A after completing their 6A cycle this year.

    I’m looking forward to seeing LaSalle Prep at Franklin field. Prep vs Gonzaga had a nice crowd. Prep won, but something definitely happened in the 2nd qtr after Prep put up 21 1st qtr points and only managed one more score.

  17. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Wilson has a decent shot at running the table if-as expected- their dinged up players all return to the starting lineup.

  18. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Doubt very much that Wilson will have its non-losing streak shattered as some hope. They’re getting most of their key players back from injury and when healthy, they should be able to beat most- if not all – of their remaining regular season opposition. Mifflin is in a class by itself, but Wilson is up there with the rest of District III.

  19. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony


  20. Mike in Tacony says:

    Kevin, here you go:

  21. Kevin X says:

    @ Mike in Tacony

    Do you have a link or name of the YT channel for that Harrisburg/Mifflin game?? Was it the full game or just highlights??

  22. Neutral Observer says:

    Huge shout out to Wyoming Area for giving Southern Columbia a heck of a game!

  23. Jeff H. says:

    @Mike in Tacony – I have seen all the top WPIAL 5a teams in person and the only one that has a remote chance of competing against Mifflin is Moon, they have an excellent defense and are very good in the trenches on both sides. With that being said I would still make Mifflin at least a 2 TD favorite in that game, and if any other team like Gateway or Pine Richland wins the WPIAL Mifflin will roll. Right now the top 3 in the WPIAL are Moon, Gateway and PR, those 2 play next week so that will tell us a little more about the pecking order. I saw Penn Trafford lose to Peters Township last night and Penn is nowhere near as good as I thought they were at the beginning of the season. Hard to see Mifflin not making it to Hershey this year, appears the only thing that can stop them is significant injuries or Covid.

  24. Mike in Tacony says:

    Traveled west to Collegeville for an entertaining game between Manheim Central & Perkiomen Valley. Manheim came back late to win 43-40 and is now 4-0. Considering their pedigree, Manheim is definitely a team-to-watch in 5A.

    Speaking of 5A, I watched a bit of Governor Mifflin vs. Harrisburg on YouTube… dear god. Even against 8 in the box, that Governor Mifflin offense simply bludgeons teams. Harrisburg was covering their twins wide with one defensive back and Mifflin STILL ran the ball lol. Give that Singleton kid a crack and he’s gone. Can’t wait to see him in the blue & white next year. Mifflin really does look to be on a collision course with Imhotep, no disrespect intended to the WPIAL winner or ECP.

    @Foleman, I saw that Exeter score. Hempfield has a decent team. Wouldn’t shock me if Wilson West Lawn lost their million-year, non-losing season streak this year. They still have Manheim Central, Hempfield, and Manheim Township on the slate… which might set them up as 5-5 heading into a game vs. the #1 seed in the 6A playoffs.

  25. Foleman says:

    Berks Catholic 47-Pope John Paul 40 In a highly entertaining game, BC roared out to 34- 7 lead in the 1st half, PJP scored with few minutes left in the half to make it 34-14, in the 2nd half, PJP caught fire and tied it at 34-34 BC scores then PJP scores again but a penalty cost them an extra point 41-40BC BC scores again to make it 47-40 BC stops PJP on their final drive. Basketball on grass vs the Wing-T was a lot of fun to watch. Also nice to see a big crowd out on a Friday night. Wasn’t surprised to see that Exeter lost to Hempfield, Exeter has more talent than most teams but always comes up small vs good teams every year.

  26. Helen Ann Long says:

    Can you believe those Southern Tigers. Down 17 late in the game and they come back and win. Hershey here they come. Congrats to Wyoming Area on a great game.

  27. bub says:

    so i did not see where there was any thing in the news concerning prep, or old forge looking for a replacement game. in previous weeks when games were cancelled there were stories daily in the scranton times concerning the hunt for replacement opponents for riverside i believe was most recent. something seems wrong here. Kevin asks a good question concerning lake lehman.

  28. mark dodgson says:

    kevin x that game is canceled according to the local paper

  29. Kevin X says:

    Now they’re getting creative……. “convergence of health issues”

    Mmmmm….an 0-3 Red Lion cancelled on 3-0 and state 6A runner-up Central York. Hey Scranton Prep, got a nice challenge for ya!!!!

  30. Kevin X says:

    So if the issue is at Lake-Lehman (Dunmore’s opponent last week), wouldn’t LL’s game against Dallas be cancelled this weekend as well?? If it already is (I haven’t seen anything about it being cancelled), a pretty good match-up would be Prep and Dallas. Better IMO than Prep/OF.

  31. bub says:

    @Mark Dodgson great minds think alike!

  32. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Think it’s just one of those years, a rare down year for Dunmore, and Prep being pretty loaded. In a weird way, not a big issue that I see not playing if the game has a real good a potential to be 42-0 at halftime. Kind of a Seinfeld-esque bizarro like world where last year you had teams down by us not playing, or at best playing a half of a season, while most of the rest of the state basically started 2 or 3 weeks later than usual. Now the rest of the state is getting hit with cancellations, and Districts 1 and 12 for most part are playing with minimal interruptions.

    @ bub

    Yeah, kind of makes sense, Prep/OF. Maybe they are already looking at it and just waiting to see if a more suitable opponent becomes available for either school (I think Prep wins that game fairly easily) before committing and announcing. What I’d love to see, is Prep meet up with Imhotep who have a bye this week, guessing it was built into their schedule between their non league and league games (or they just couldn’t find another non league game) and let them go at it. Love to see if Prep’s London Montgomery would even have a 100 yards rushing against an actual defense.

  33. Neutral Observer says:

    RE COVID cancellations:

    I’m glad the PIAA did not pass bright line rules. I thought I read somewhere that Dunmore didn’t have any positive tests themselves, but were caught up in contact tracing from Lake-Lehman (their opponent last week). That’s not really anything that Dunmore did wrong; just bad luck as to who their prior opponent was. In a case like that, I’d rather see a “No Contest” than have Dunmore take a loss.

    But it’s probably not really feasible to have District 2 (or the LIAA) do an immediate investigation into every cancellation to see who is at fault (if anyone). I’d rather see “No Contest” as the default result, which is only changed into a “Loss” if there is clear evidence of something fishy going on (as determined by the District or local conference).

  34. mark dodgson says:

    like the way you think bub

  35. Jeff H. says:

    @Frank G – I hear you about Dunmore, I’m in Western Pa so far removed, but I was always under the same impression as you, never heard anything disparaging about their program and typically had solid teams and some years went on deep playoff runs.

  36. bub says:

    in regards to the covid cancellations.Why not just give dunmore and northwest a loss and have old forge play prep? kinda seems ez enough.

  37. FrankG says:

    @ Jeff H and Kevin X Looks like you’re both right. Still, I wonder if that can really be the case with Dunmore. Maybe, but I always thought of them as a pretty confident and ambitious program.

  38. Jeff H. says:

    @Frank G – the PIAA and many others disagree with you on teams using Covid as an excuse to duck a superior opponent, per an article today in the Tribune Review Online

    The PIAA is worried teams may be using covid-19 issues as a way to avoid an unfavorable opponent, so the board on Wednesday debated at length a policy that would’ve made regular season cancellations forfeits.

    Ultimately, the board voted against the policy change and agreed to instead provide the information only as “guidance” for the PIAA’s 12 district committees, including the WPIAL. But the PIAA remained skeptical about the motivation behind some postponements and cancellations already this fall.

    “Board members were concerned hearing from their constituents and membership that they think ‘School A’ may be ducking somebody,” PIAA executive director Bob Lombardi said. “Or they have a squad of 45 (players) and eight are out. … That’s some of the anecdotal information that was given to the board, so they felt we should reduce this to writing.”

    The proposal included three directives:

    1. In the event a regular season contest is postponed for whatever reason, including covid-19 issues, all attempts must be made to reschedule that contest during the regular season.

    2. If the contest cannot be rescheduled, the failure of a team to participate in a scheduled contest shall constitute an automatic forfeit, regardless of the reason thereof, unless the school not participating convinces the district committee that it made reasonable efforts to avoid an outbreak and that its failure to participate was unavoidable, in which event the district committee may treat the matter as if the contest had not been scheduled (no contest).

    3. If a school has sufficient personnel who are not subject to quarantine to participate in a contest but chooses not to play, that school will forfeit the contest.

    The board discussed the policy for 30 minutes, ending with a rare roll call vote.

    “What some people are doing, at least anecdotally … you canceled the game but still are holding practice,” Lombardi said. “That seems to fly in the face of canceling the game.”

    The PIAA noted that current rules already consider canceling or rescheduling a contest for competitive reasons to be unsportsmanlike behavior. Additionally, under longstanding regulations, the failure of any team to compete in a scheduled game counts as an automatic forfeit, but district committees have relaxed that rule during the pandemic.

    Since the proposal became only guidance, district committees may continue that approach.

    “Under our rules and regulations, a cancellation for any reason is a forfeiture,” Lombardi said. “We’ve had that on the books since probably the Eisenhower administration.”

    The board considered a motion to implement the new policy retroactive to Aug. 19, but that vote failed 17-9. Four board members connected to the WPIAL were among the 17 in opposition. The board then voted unanimously to provide the language of the policy to schools as guidance.

    “They want to use that as guidance,” Lombardi said, “so that people aren’t playing loose and fast.”

    Chris Harlan is a Tribune-Review Staff Writer. You can contact Chris by email at or via Twitter .

  39. Jeff H. says:

    @Mike in Tacony – I was at the Harrisburg win over PR and trust me, they were impressive, especially in the 2nd half. I wouldn’t read too much into PR being 0-3, they should have and would have won all 3 of those games with their prior coaching staff, they were up 3 TD’s on PCC in the first half last week and had 35 at half, but didn’t score a point in the 2nd half. Their coaching staff is very small in numbers and has virtually no experience and has thus far shown zero ability to make any in game adjustments. I agree with you Mifflin is a sizable favorite, and if they score 40+ like they do every game they will win going away, that’s why I said Harrisburg has to keep the ball away from their offense to keep it close, and with a big offensive line and a power running game they could conceivably control the clock, get a couple of turnovers or big plays on special teams, and who knows, sometimes crazy things happen in HS football.

  40. mark dodgson says:

    i hate to say this but Kevin x might be right .the comment i heard was better to be safe than sorry and we get beat 70-0 anyway !!! i hate to think that Dunmore would think that way but it makes you wonder since a parent told me they have no positive tests ???

  41. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    “Are there any common protocols for deciding when games need to be cancelled / postponed?” Good question, wondering the same thing myself. It doesn’t appear to be, but I would think there has to be something out there. Even if there is, it doesn’t mean a school couldn’t do it’s own thing, out of well, an abundance of caution, etc.

    As far as ducking an opponent, below is a Tweet that I came across tonight from a respected sports reporter in the western part of the state who was monitoring today’s PIAA meeting:

    “Bob Lombardi says that teams using COVID-19 and other reasons as an excuse to cancel games to avoid tough teams has happened enough this year that the guidance from the board today was necessary.”

    Looks like I’m not the only one of that opinion…….

  42. Mike in Tacony says:

    Governor Mifflin hasn’t scored under 40 points in two years. That includes against the 5A state champ, Pine Richland, in the semi-finals last year. I just don’t know if Harrisburg can put up enough points to hang with them. I’m hoping for a competitive game but Mifflin is a sizable favorite, IMO. The August, Harrisburg win over P-R doesn’t seem as impressive now after P-R’s 0-3 start.

  43. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X

    I would be surprised if schools are cancelling because they’re ducking an opponent. The more disruptions, especially just a day or two before a game, the harder it is for teams to stay on track for the season. As for Dunmore and Scranton Prep, from my time in that area I imagine Dunmore players and fans probably look forward more to the SP game than they do to most others.

    Are there any common protocols for deciding when games need to be cancelled / postponed? My impression is that a lot more thinking and planning went into last year’s approach to Covid. Maybe this year there was more wishful thinking.

  44. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – wow, that’s a bigtime matchup between Harrisburg and Mifflin, I give Hburg coach Everett a lot of credit for being willing to take on any and all comers, especially on such short notice. I do think this game will be close for awhile but ultimately they won’t be able to contain Singleton all game and expect Mifflin will win by a couple of scores. Harrisburg has a chance if they can control the clock and go on sustained drives with their bruising fullback Makhi Hopkins, I said after I watched him punish PR in the opener at the Wolvarena he was a load to tackle and no team has really slowed him down yet, create some turnovers on defense and pound the ball behind their huge offensive line and keep the ball away from Mifflin’s offense.

    @mcd 65 – agree Upper Dublin has had some solid teams in recent years and I do think they will give NP a good game on Friday, at least for awhile, certainly appears UD is the favorite to win 5A in DI

  45. bub says:

    @Frank G. I guess we simply disagree. i do not believe kids are belonging to the school where they live.We are discussing the format that high schools compete under. it is perfectly fair and good that people can choose where their children are educated. but please do not pretend that i was saying that they should be limited in their choice of school. i say that the format is unfair because of the ability to use financial help to make possible for anyone to become a part of the school especially for athletics. if i am supposed to believe in the righteous behavior of the athletic department, and or the good intentions of the school directors then you lose me. many people have good intentions but many do not.

  46. Kevin X says:

    Some of you guys have been going back and forth with regards to Scranton Prep, finding it interesting that their game this week against Dunmore has been cancelled by Dunmore “out of an abundance of caution.” Starting to think a some of these schools are really stretching the Covid excuse to get out of games that more than likely they were going to get an old fashion butt whooping. So do these games (assuming they are not made up before the playoffs) in the point systems count as a no contest or forfeit loss/win?? If the former, maybe Dunmore should consider changing their nickname from the Bucks to the Ducks.

  47. Kevin X says:

    @ ScottyB

    Looking ahead to the following Friday maybe the time to visit PV. S-F/PV one of the best rivalry games in the area (at least for the ones I’ve been to, DTE/DTW and SJP/LaS be two others).

    Yeah, I didn’t get that PV fake punt on their own 20 early 4th qtr. Turning point right there IMO. Got to admit, #7 from PV was fun to watch, Mr. Everything. Field goal kicker to boot (pun intended).

    @ Foleman

    Saw that. Intriguing game, but kind out of travel area for a regular season game, with the closer choices available. Also, as far as Mifflin goes, and this would be an issue with SF/PV from above, I was looking at heading down to Delco next Friday for Mifflin and EA. Same deal as with Ivey, chance to see Singleton live before he heads up to PSU. Don’t know how competitive of a game that will be, but seems like Inter-ACs hang in there.

  48. The Joneses says:

    @MCD65 I think it would have been hard to do a 5:00 pm and 8:30 pm game on a Friday night in the city. Unsure if UPenn has a bye week this weekend. A double header would have been nice, but a logistical problem.

  49. Paul from Philly says:


    First to get into these schools you need to take the entrance exam. And don’t boo woo that. La Salle had two great basketball prospects a few years ago that passed the exam but couldn’t handle the academics. They transferred to Plymouth Whitemarsh and voila, a state title to PW.
    Secondly, when dealing with ALL the handouts La salle gives (academic, athletic, hardships) where would the money come from? Aside from academic and athletic scholarships there are a lot of 1 parent homes that get a lot of aid. They are mercy driven. You need to get your money somewhere to keep the lights on.

  50. FrankG says:

    @ bub, You seem to assume that kids who live in Dunmore, Carbondale, etc. belong to the public school district the illre and that if they go to Scranton Prep they are being something akin to stolen or illicitly lured. The parents of those kids might say they pay taxes like everyone else to support the local public school and they pay at least some tuition to send their kids to Scranton Prep where, if they are athletes, they can play against kids whose parents pay no tuition to send them to the public school.

    You also seem to think the nerdy kid who’s good at academics but whose parents can’t afford to pay the full tuition at a school like SJP gets little or no offer of financial aid. Do you think for a second SJP could stay in business if they were giving full tuition waivers to football players and not giving substantial financial support to the families of those nerds, some of whom will certainly be the children or the nephews or the neighbors of SJP grads. A guy I went to the Prep with, Nick Howley, gave $5 million to the school last year. He was a football player in high school but the great bulk of the money is going to the families of students who do not play football or basketball or …. There is a fund specific to the football program but it isn’t remotely as large as the general student aid fund.

    As for foreign students coming to N-G to play girls basketball, it reminds me of some coach’s claim that SJP had football players from four states, which of course was not true. Maybe N-G has one basketball player who came to Philly from another country–probably with her family–but I can’t believe the roster has more than one such girl.

    Bottom line: the fact that private schools do not have geographic boundaries is a definite advantage. Public schools attended by students from one town or one part of a city have their own advantages. It’s perfectly legitimate to argue the private schools’ advantage is much larger. Whether it’s better for all the schools to be competing against each other or to divide them into public and private is an endless debate. Different states have made different decisions. Some may think they want to go the New Jersey route, but they should first consider what’s happened in Jersey.

  51. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, Harrisburg just signed up to play Governor Mifflin this Friday at Mifflin, another great game to choose from. Central Dauphin had to cancel it’s game with Hburg due to Covid. Mifflin was scheduled to play Cedar Crest who probably opted out, they lost 45-0 to Carlisle last week. Hburg ranked #9 in 6A Governor Mifflin #1 in 5A This game could decide who the king of the Hill is in District 3 regardless of class.

  52. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X

    Both should be great games but I love the atmosphere at Thomas J Keenan stadium and District ones best student section (as voted before)

    PV is a horrible 2nd half against Coatesville from a strong 3-0 start.

    Have fun whichever you choose!

  53. bub says:

    @FrankG , i used football players because this is a football forum.I don’t feel any better if it is basketball, soccer,tennis,etc.,. as far as reputation being damaged how many schools have audits in regard to what claims they post on their websites? i have seen west catholic, and neuman goretti football and basketball teams with an unusual abundance of talent, that i bet they would not have without the financial aid they provide. i think neuman goretti had female basketball players from outside of the USA. if they can afford to provide all this financial aid then they can afford to reduce the tuition in the first place and maybe the nerdy child without athletic skills who is maybe brilliant in math or science but not from a wealthy home could attend. school is supposed to be primarily for learning not can a school like montrose,carbondale, susquehanna, or even old forge or dunmore who have better programs compete when they have players only from the boundaries of their town?i know for a fact that many of these schools have lost players from their town to scranton prep.every school in the area has lost players to scranton is impossible to compete fairly.

  54. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, help me decide between two games for this Friday night:

    Manheim Central @ Perk Valley, or Township @ Spring-Ford?? Amish country invades the heart of PAC land.

    Perk is closer, but I did see Perk two weeks ago in Coatesville (great game btw).

    Further travels to Royersford, but I would like to see Anthony Ivey once in person before he heads up to Happy Valley next year.

    Post game @ the Trappe Tavern is basically a push.

  55. FrankG says:

    @ bub What private schools would argue is that their full tuition costs come close to the per-student cost of providing what the school offers each student. Some families can afford the tuition, almost always with some sacrifice involved. What would be gained by reducing the tuition cost if the schools can offer enough financial aid to help families who can’t afford the full tuition to enrol their child? And think of the reputational damage a school would suffer if it publicly advertised a figure, e.g.54% that was shown to be quite wrong.

    You seem to have the idea that most students who get financial aid are football players. Any evidence of that for any school? Don’t you think that if that were true the school would get lots and lots of blowback from families struggling to pay the tuition but not getting any financial aid?

  56. bub says:

    with all due respect ,the website promotes the school.probably not to be relied on as gospel./ schools, businesses have been known to present a rosy picture .if 54%of students get financial aid why doesn’t the school reduce the cost to attend in the first place so more people could afford it. Maybe they keep it high so that they can have better control as to who can attend by picking the “select” “students”who attend via the football, er i mean financial aid.

  57. David Mika says:

    mcd 65…We’re covering both games.

  58. mcd 65 says:

    St Joe Prep/ Gonzaga at Franklin Field Friday night , and Wood /Malvern Prep at Franklin Field saturday afternoon. This should have been a double header instead of splitting up the games. Parking is always a huge issue.

  59. FrankG says:

    @bub Just checked the SJP website and noted that 54% of the students get some financial aid. Obviously, I can’t comment on your family member’s situation and I don’t know the Scranton situation well, though I did spend three years there in the 70s and still keep in touch with friends there. My sense is that Scranton Prep isn’t just for rich kids, but–as is the case with private schools everywhere–many graduates want to send their own children there and are prepared to make some financial sacrifices to do it.

    I can say with some knowledge of SJP that it’s not as if lots of scholarship / tuition assistance money is given to athletes but not to other students. The 54% figure makes that pretty clear, and I know the great majority of that 54% get far more than the 5% off you say your relative was offered by Scranton Prep. On the other hand, nearly all those who get financial assistance also pay some tuition and pay for things that are free at public schools–like books, transportation, etc. Some families of football players–starters–pay full tuition. So I guess the question is whether having players whose families pay only, say, $1,000 or $5,000 a year in tuition gives schools an unfair advantage over schools whose students don’t have to pay a penny. You can guess how I answer that question. What is a clear advantage is that private schools don’t have geographical boundaries. How much of an advantage that is varies in relation of how great the difference in geographic catchment areas is. SJP’s advantage would seem to be bigger than SP’s since SJP can draw from a huge population living within a 20-25 mile radius of the school. But, as I wrote in an earlier post, the local public school with the practice field on site, with students all living close by, and with no worries about students having to leave for academic reasons has its own advantages.

  60. #Buzz says:


    How did you hear they recruit ? Last time I checked all the top Philadelphia Lil League teams have coaches on Imhotep staff. Parents trust these coaches with there kids bcuz they grew up with them. Also, Imhotep is the type school they rarely have to recruit anymore. Every kid in the city hears about Imhotep BASKETBALL AND FOOTBALL programs around the city, if not the state. Plus Imhotep is free to attend (PUBLIC SCHOOL) unlike Catholic schools where u have to get scholarships. If kids that have talent but not the financial backing as MOST kids don’t in Philadelphia but want exposer to compete with the best you wouldn’t choose Imhotep ? But to answer your questions on how they don’t score, this Imhotep team is very young. Many think there veterans cuz of the size but most of Imhotep skills and QB are sophomores and I think one or 2 juniors. This team is good in the trenches mostly being Seniors on both sides. But the actual talent are the 2024 class and 2025 class of Imhotep. There jus young give them a year and the offense will dominate again.

  61. bub says:

    thanks to frank g.and neutral observer for the response. i am going to disagree with the concept o these schools being so generous. over the years scranton prep is known as the school where all the who’s who in the scranton area go. i live in the area and i am older so i have known many who have attended prep. i do not recall many disadvantaged kids attending prep.i have a family member who finished 2nd in the admittance exam and was only awarded a 500 dollar grant towards a10,000. per year tuition. and the family tried for financial help and were denied. and i guarantee they could have used the financial help. of course the student was not a gifted athlete. my point is that i believe they do help students who are athletes that can benefit the sports teams. i believe this gives them an unfair advantage over the competition . if the said students benefit that is great, but it is not fair to their competition.

  62. Paul from Philly says:

    October 2 at Franklin Field. St. Joe/La Salle. Prep is the Prep. La Salle showing signs of catching up to them. Should be a good one! Get your popcorn!!!

  63. FridayKnightLights says:


    2016 was definitely a great team to watch. Thought they outplayed Prep for large portions of the semifinal. That Swift kid turned out to be a half decent player lol. This year’s version of NP could rival or even pass the offense of ’16. I hope they can find a way to put the D together. The secondary should improve with Edwards at safety who has at least one D1 offer and two young corners starting for the first time this year. They also put a kid in at LB, Cody I think, who has looked really solid. I don’t believe he started the Souderton game but I could be wrong. Also hoping they get the Dawes kid back. He was really solid last year as a freshman. I remember in ’11 the defense started off terribly and by years end they held LA Salle to 14 in the semifinals. Here’s to hoping.

  64. mark dodgson says:

    pulse do the bigger schools want to play southern ? their no up side it going to cost them points on their seeding or district as most use a point system based on the size of the schools you play so it no points and everyone say big deal you beat a AA school

  65. Buddy says:


    Yea, NP should go unscathed in regular season. D1 playoffs a little tougher, the usual suspects ( Garnet Valley, Coatesville, etc).

    Probably be #1 seed, so everyone comes to their house. After D1 playoffs, most likely doomed.


    By the end of season, offense should be clicking very well. Defense is suspect, especially against the pass. Run defense doesn’t look that stellar either.

    I think I’m still spoiled from the 2016 season. Even though they lost to SJP in the semis ( helluva game), they wound up 2nd in the state.

  66. Neutral Observer says:

    @ bub

    Per Scranton Prep’s own website: “In a given school year, Scranton Prep gives over $1.5 million in aid to students, approximately 40% of the students attending Prep receive grants in aid. The average grant is over $5,000.”

    I work with someone whose oldest son went/played there a few years ago. The general, vague sentiment that I hear from her (no hard evidence) is that the SCHOOL really does NOT want to be known as a “football school” and would much rather focus on “preppier” sports (i.e. golf, tennis, etc.) that fit the “fancy prep school” image more. I think the football team is successful in spite of the school, rather than because of it. So I really doubt that Scranton Prep has any recruited football players, but who knows about the golf or tennis teams?

    In terms of non-Catholic students at Catholic schools, I think a lot of the local public school districts just don’t have great reputations. The Scranton newspaper does a “report card” for all of the schools each year and a lot of the districts get failing/bad grades in terms of SAT scores, reading proficiency levels, graduation rates and other things like that.

  67. FridayKnightLights says:


    Seen NP a few times now. They are very talented but it will still come down to the defense. O line has good size with the center at 230, guards at 260 and 277, and tackles each at 300. Carroll is a very nice receiver and is producing every week. At 6’3″ and with some speed he can cause issues including the return game where he has broken a few already. They have a couple of underclassmen receivers over 6 ft as well that have potential. Their development would be huge. Zeltt has flashed a strong arm and Eaton is an absolute monster but needs to keep the ball off the ground. Upper Dublin might offer a test as well as Pennridge with their physicality. NP should have the skill and depth to run the table though. If they can figure the D out they might, MIGHT just have the athletes to compete with the catholics.

    Garnet Valley looks like a machine right now. Definitely a team to watch. From what I’ve heard they have added a passing game to a strong running game. A program that deserves a lot of respect and credit.

    I would say those are likely your top 2 in D1 but there’s a lot of football left to play. On a side note, do you have any idea what the injury is to Dave Dawes at NP is? 235 lb soph that played a ton as a freshmen on the D line and was slated to start at MLB and FB this year but hasn’t played due to injury. I think he’s been in a sling. Could be the key to the defense and definitely a key player they have been without.

  68. Jc says:

    I wouldn’t mind southern moving up but If they did just because you want to penalize them because there good then I’d say do it, but only against public schools because then I would say you have to penalize all the private and catholic schools for not having boundaries and being able to recruit. Even Steven I’d say if your being forced up it’s only right to force the privates out. Bring on aliquippa and other public schools and let the Imhoteps and st Joes and lasalle play bishop sycamore.

  69. George says:

    I’ve also heard stories about the way they recruit, some of which is ridiculous.

    They might play Governor Milfflin and will play well against them but based on talent they should win by 21.*** sorry some typos

  70. George says:

    Just because SC plays 3A teams and 4a teams doesn’t mean anything. The teams they play aren’t very good and they win. As a coach you should want to be challenged and not have every game over by the 3rd quarter.

    As for Imhotep I hated watching them against LaSalle, I’m pretty sure the coaches have no idea how to scheme, make adjustments, and excute. They have been the 2-3rd best team in pa when it comes to talent but coaching has held them back.

    Someone that has watched explain to me why Imhotep can’t score 28 points against anyone in the state. Seems a little bit of political. I’ve also heard stories about the way they recruit, so of which is ridiculous. They might me Governor Milfflin and will play well against them but Based on talent they should win by 21.

    Just my 2 cents

  71. mcd 65 says:

    @ Buddy, North Penn is loaded as you know and have an interesting matchup this week against Upper Dublin. UD has had some nice teams lately. This could be a good game . It was a shame that UD couldnt compete for states last year due to the Virus . North Penn should run the table in District 1 regular season imo.

  72. FrankG says:

    @ bub Catholic schools have many students, not just athletes, who are not Catholic. When I went to SJP several decades ago every student in the school came from a Catholic family. Same was true for Roman, West Catholic, etc. But the world changed. I had two brothers who also went to SJP and we were fairly typical. You can figure out how many families of three or more boys there are who go to the same high school–or just count the number of families with three children let alone three boys! Plus, lots of non-Catholic families who never would have considered sending their son (or daughter) to a Catholic school began doing just that. I understand that there have been Mormon students at SJP and that the majority of the students at West Catholic are not Catholic. That’s partly a reflection of the fact that some Catholic schools have made it part of their mission to serve disadvantaged families and students. So the schools remain Catholic in this way or that, e.g. all the students at SJP take religion courses, participate in religious retreats, etc. but there is no longer an assumption–there can’t be if they want to stay open–that the families of the students are all Catholic let alone are “practicing” Catholics.

    I can’t speak for all Catholic schools, but I can say that SJP and LaSalle give out academic scholarships–partial or full tuition waivers for students with the best scores on the admission tests. Most of the students who qualify for full- or partial-tuition waivers, based on family income, are not athletes, though of course some are. Do the schools especially encourage promising athletes to attend? Yes they do, but just being a promising athlete does not mean you get a full-tuition waiver. The families of many of SJP’s starting football players pay full tuition: over $20K plus fees for books, activities, etc. Nobody pretends you have to be an academic whiz to attend SJP, but you do have to be capable of a fairly demanding academic challenge and you have to do the academic work. Every year that I know of the Prep has seen promising athletes leave because they had trouble academically.

    The fact that the Prep can recruit players–and other students–from all over the Delaware Valley is a definite advantage–just as it’s an advantage for Scranton Prep that they can recruit from Pittston to Tunkhannock, but there are obvious advantages to having your own practice and game field on campus, to having student-athletes who all live no more than a five or ten minute ride away, and to being able to have players who are at every point on the academic spectrum.

  73. Buddy says:

    @ kevin

    I remember that hoops game. Kennedy was favored I believe, but that was an fantastic game! Being a D1 fan, a bit dissapointing.

    But I believe the rules for football are different, Aliquppa not withstanding.

  74. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…I have a page on my site I will be updating throughout the week….

  75. Kevin X says:

    Well here we go, cancellations are coming in fast and furious as I expected, but I was expecting more towards the end of the month and the beginning of Oct. But what the Hell is going on up in D10?? They are getting hammered with cancellations since almost the start of the season. D2, D3, and D11 are having their fair share recently as well.


    No, no limit. Aliquippa a “A” school by enrollment figures are being forced to pay up to “4A” (and oh, btw, a public boundary school competing nicely with the bigger boys).

    But the Hold My Beer award tho goes to Kennedy Catholic Boys Hoops who volunteered (yes, volunteered) to play up from their “A” enrollment classification to “6A” a few years ago. And also btw, won a state title that year (in a great game over Pennridge).

  76. Buddy says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but you can only play up 2 classes ( actually, I thought it was only one), but apparently it’s 2 classes.

    PIAA rule. So SC couldn’t play class 5A even if they wanted. I do believe they play a 3A and 4A every year.

    BTW, any D1 fans here? Let’s hear some chatter!

  77. mcd 65 says:

    I want to give a shout out to an under the radar player that has been a force for the past two years in the PCL, John Pergine from Archbishop Wood. He is a LB 5 11, 215 and incredible ball instincts. I hope he is recognized for his performance and not overlooked. He does have at one D-1 offer ,but limited by his size. If you get the opportunity watch # 44 play. He is really something to observe. Last game 2 int,2 blocked punts , a safety and about 8 tackles . He played at McDevitt last year and had similar performances. Hard nosed guy for sure.

  78. mcd 65 says:

    @ Jeff H, totally agree,nobody is being derogatory towards SC. I know I for one has stated a few times that They. have a great program and coaches.The Garcia brothers have been beasts . I guess if I were a SC resident I would be pumping out my chest about what a great success my home town team has been and is . Moving up in class would be nerve racking to many I suppose, or they would have already done so a couple of years ago. Some like challenges and some are satisfied with the status quo.

  79. bub says:

    i guess you can’t ask an honest question here. let me try a different way. do catholic schools have students that are there to be atheletes first and foremost.

  80. bub says:

    i know that private schools seem to have athletic students,whereas i wonder how many skilled art students are attending via scholarship or waiver/sponsor programs. i ask this because i have been to catholic high school games and a number of the players are not catholic. how does this work?

  81. Jeff H. says:

    @Mark Dodgson – comparing apples and oranges, if I remember correctly most of the North Dakota State championship games were pretty competitive and not blowouts like SC. Also, I said nothing about them playing up to 6A, I would not advocate them playing in 6A under any circumstance, but it would be fascinating to see them play a state championship caliber 4A or 5A team like TJ in 2019 or Governor Mifflin the last couple of years. My point is if you are mercy ruling virtually every opponent including the state championship games maybe it’s time to consider playing up a class or 2, SC’s program is so good they would still win plenty of titles at a higher class.

  82. Jeff H. says:

    @Helen Ann Long – I have never disparaged the SC program, they have one of the best programs and coaching staffs in the state and I’ve said so numerous times, so just stop it with the hate crap. As a neutral observer who wouldn’t want to see SC take on some of the power teams in larger classifications. For example if they would have played TJ in 2019 in the state final instead of destroying Wilmington that would have been a tremendous game and much better for high school football overall than to have another mercy rule victory in Hershey. How do you know other schools in 2A don’t work as hard as SC does, do you go to their off season workouts? That’s pretty arrogant and condescending to make a statement like that. I have noticed over the years the SC faithful get pretty defensive when anyone questions why they don’t play up to face tougher competition, it has absolutely nothing to do with “hating” SC and everything to do with seeing more competitive games on the state level, at least as far as I’m concerned.

  83. mark dodgson says:

    ok north Dakota state has won the national championship at division 2 collage football in 2011 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 so now should they play Ohio state, Alabama, Clemson and USC because their winning make as much since as southern playing 6 a teams

  84. mark dodgson says:

    @ Jeff not sure i an in my right mind but yes it was sarcasm

  85. The Joneses says:

    WAIT WAIT .. a round of applause for Helen…

    @Sausmann you’re funny. I was at the game. Milton is a good team. Prep missed some opportunities. You say they were exposed. Don’t you think that’s why Prep and every other school puts tough non-league games on their schedule to see where they are and what they need to work on. I thought it was simple. The difference is Prep does it to see what they need to fix to win a state chip, everyone else does it to see if they can beat Prep.

    @Michael you are so right about Imotep and offense. It’s always lacking offense. Play calling unimaginative. After a while the defense wears out if the offense can’t give them real time off the field.

    LaSalle Prep at Franklin Field is about to get top billing as usual, but this year could have higher hype than that 2015 year.

  86. FrankG says:

    @bub, All private schools give scholarships. None, as far as I know, pay students to play a sport.

  87. bub says:

    Does scranton prep give scholarships?do they allow players to be sponsored? i heard a few years back that a very good player was going there via a sponsor program, which sounds suspiciously like pay to play. prep is a very expensive school and many cannot afford to go there.

  88. Michael says:

    Imhotep really needs to figure out there offense. It felt when they needed a score, they would go back to the northwest Raiders offense. They have enough players to find playmakers on offense, however the coaches down 5 wanted to run wildcat. That simply doesn’t work against better teams. Imhotep has the guys, to play offense and defense.. not both. They are young and that will help. The coaches need to be better and find an identity.

    LaSalle was ok. Brown had 100 yards but 50-60 of them yards came on the last drive when Imhotep had given up.

  89. #Buzz says:

    Congratz To Lasalle On The Major Game Winning Drive To Win. Great game full of talent that linebacker is something else his presence was dominate from start to finish. Imhotep really needs to work on there offense. They consistently rely on there defense to put them in good field position and move the ball. They have to clean it up before playoffs or they are gonna be exposed. But great game that was Lasalle vs Imhotep
    2-1 not bad for non conference bouts with PCC DEMATHA LASALLE excited to see what happens in playoffs 4 5A.

  90. Kevin X says:

    “Northeast such a cool site for football games!!!”

    Did they renovate, or better yet, do a complete overhaul of the facility since I was there in 2016??

    My Lord, that was the worse place I’ve been to to see a game between then and now, hands down. And I’m lucky I didn’t need to use the restrooms based on the comments of those who were with me who did. What am I missing???

  91. FrankG says:

    @sausmannn You write as if the Prep was forced to play Milton against their will. For the last quarter of a century they’ve played the toughest non-league, out-of-state schedule of any team in PA.. As for the sophomore QB who left the game in the first hand, he returned and played well in the second half.

  92. sausmann9 says:

    What a great game!!! Milton GA comes up here on the road and puts a beating on St Joes Prep. SJP quarterback running for his life until Milton sent him to the benches in first half. This score could have been worse but a win is a win. GA public schools simply own Da prep, lmao but when you play schools that are close to your level, sometimes you get exposed!

    Northeast such a cool site for football games!!!

  93. Foleman says:

    Springside Chestnut Hill 32 Pope John Paul 27 SCH pulls out the win with 30 seconds left in a fantastic HS game. Didn’t know QB Aidan Dooley transferred into SCH from Judge, He might be a grad transfer, he’s a stud, having a couple of Div 1 receivers to throw to also helps

  94. Foleman says:

    S. Columbia has the best coaching staff in the state hands down. I’ve seen them play many times and they run the wing T to perfection and their fundamentals are flawless. They will play a similar type team in a few weeks-Wyomissing, who also has a coach who I think is a top 5 coach in the State. Really looking forward to that game. Changing demographics in the NE has caused former HS powerhouse programs like Mt Carmel and Berwick to plummet. Back in the day, those 2 teams could play with anyone regardless of class, now it’s Southern Columbia in that region and no one else.

  95. Jc says:

    Imhotep, Imhotep!!! This ain’t fair Lasalle recruits

  96. Matt says:

    I’m a D11 fan but I’ve seen Southern over the years in Hershey and a few state playoff games. They are as well coached as any team I have seen year in and year out. The tackling, fundamentals, line play. It’s just amazing to watch. They have stars for sure. But they also have kids that get coached up really well and maybe outplay thier talent level. Southern hasn’t lost since Dec 2016…..coming up on five years. Incredible. And they usually schedule a tough game or two out of conference every year. They played that state champion South Carolina team on ESPN a few years ago and also picked up Wyoming area who was undrafted in 3A at the time. They beat them 42-0….and Wyoming won 3A that year. Mount Carmel usually top ten or atleast HM in 2A every year. This year they picked up Berwick who is two classes up from them. I have all the respect for Southern Columbia. Impressive long standing public program.

  97. Jerry Springer says:

    Southern Columbia is the real deal. Made the trip from the Wyoming valley last night to watch them. That program is what happens when you have good coaches, getting the best out of your talent, and support from your whole community and school. People do not realize how important that community support is. Anyone here ever attend a game where one team has no one sitting on their side cheering them on?

  98. Helen Ann Long says:

    Year after year we hear all of these clowns on here (so called experts) saying SCA should move up, that they don’t play anyone, etc., etc. My suggestion is, why don’t the other schools in the D2 classification work as hard as the Southern kids do to make themselves better than the rest of the schools in that class. SCA has nothing to prove to anyone, just look at their schedule every year. They already PLAY UP every year and still keep winning. The haters are out there every year. You clowns need to shut up and help your own programs get better instead of sitting in your easy chairs having another beer and TRYING to think through the fog in your brains for something else hateful to say.

  99. Kevin X says:

    @ McD65

    This may be a little late, but I’d hit up the Prep/Milton game. Not everyday you get to see a good team from Georgia live in your own backyard. Plus you get the chance to see one of, if not the top ranked junior players in the country.

    Besides, you can catch the LaSalle/Imhotep game anytime at your leisure………

  100. Mike in Tacony says:

    I agree that the quality gap between D12 and D7 isn’t close:

    D12 state champion programs in the past decade:
    St Joe’s

    Thomas Jefferson
    Central Valley
    Penn Hills
    Quaker Valley
    Beaver Falls
    Steel Valley
    Pittsburgh Central Catholic
    South Fayette
    North Catholic
    North Allegheny

    D12’s strength is a few Philly all-star teams… while D7 gets state titles across all classes and from a variety of teams, most of them boundary programs, all while pulling from a smaller population.

    That Thomas Jefferson beat Wood, North Allegheny beat LaSalle, South Fayette beat Imhotep, and Pine Richland beat St Joe’s is legit crazy. Meanwhile, Philly boundary schools can’t even stay on the field against those same programs. The WPIAL remains the class of PA.

  101. Jc says:

    So if your a small school you would get penalized for being good but if your in the largest classification like st. Joes prep and you keep winning that’s ok. Sounds like a good idea.

  102. #Buzz says:

    I jus through 16 well known schools but I definitely could have did a better 16 but my point being top 16 teams need to be in a open classification where recruiting is allowed for those that will compete in the SWEET 16 tourney playing other high quality opponents.

    Also, WPIAL is okay but compared to Philly the talent gap in teams and quality of players is a far from close. That’s jus goes back into Population count if you took top 5 from Philly vs WPIAL philly will dominate probably 4-1 odds.

    Yes it has fell off. We clearly seen it in the western pa vs everybody showcase I think western pa won 1 game out their own showcase.

  103. Mike in Tacony says:

    To say, “St. Joe’s and LaSalle compete for players” is only half of the equation. It’s not just about competition. Philly charter / Catholics pull from a population of millions. Southern Columbia pulls from a population of tens of thousands.

    Second, Berks Catholic has never even played in a state title game so I’m not sure how they are top 16. They run a nice 4A program but have never been a top 20 team in PA and are currently outside of the top 100 teams in the state on MaxPreps.

    Finally, WPIAL still rules high school football in this state. Look at the number of different D7 schools that have won state titles compared to every other district. Most districts have the same 1-3 competitive powers each season. Meanwhile, D7 fields a dozen teams each year with a reasonable chance to win a state title. The depth of quality teams and the breadth across classifications in the greater Pittsburgh area remains light years ahead of any other district.

  104. Jeff H. says:

    @Mark Dodgson – so all small Catholic schools regardless of size should play 6A? Even ones that struggle to be competitive in their regular classification? I’ll take it you meant that sarcastically because no one with any common sense would argue that all small catholic or charter schools should be forced to play 6A.

    @Buzz – Western Pa football fell off a mountain? There is no question the quality of play and the number of big time recruits are down in the WPIAL, but that’s true across most of the state, not just in Western Pa. The WPIAL still manages to win a couple of state titles every year and had their share of power 5 recruits last year, Derrick Davis from Gateway went to LSU, Khalil Dinkins from NA to Penn State and Donovan McMillon from Peters went to Florida, just to name a few, Pitt also signed 4-5 kids, so there is still some top notch talent from around here, just not as many kids as in decades past.

    Regarding this annual debate about whether SC should play up in class, I would have preferred when the PIAA instituted the success/transfer rule they left the transfers out of it and just focused on a schools success, if a school dominates a classification year in and year out they should be forced to move up for the following cycle, IMO that would do more to help competitive balance across the state than bringing transfers into the equation. If that rule were in effect SC would be playing at least 4A by now, TJ would be in 5A, etc.

  105. mcd 65 says:

    LaSalle/ Imhotep and Saint Joe Prep/ Milton Georgia , both Saturday afternoon in Philly. Coin flip which to attend .

  106. mcd 65 says:

    @ JC, Within their area is defined as within their borders. My lord why cant you understand . SC and others in the small towns dont have the likes of Lasalle and Saint joe prep recruiting their best talent away , that is what was meant. Stop all the defensive responses where they arent appropriate and enjoy football in Pa. I think its great to have the community behind your team . I remember when CB West was king and the crowds they used to draw. Have a great season whoever you choose to follow.

  107. FrankG says:

    @ mark d Do you really think Bishop Guilfoyle or Berks Catholic, which don’t have borders, should be in the same classification as North Penn or Coatesville? Would anything be gained by having Scranton Prep move to 6A when, for as long as I can remember, they’ve never made it to a state semifinal–despite not having borders?

  108. jc says:

    Hey buzz they mercy ruled the 3a state champion that year.

  109. mark dodgson says:

    guys then why have classifications ??? and i don’t want to hear about a Catholics school or charter school if you don’t have borders you should be 6A!!!!

  110. #Buzz says:

    I dont understand you my guy your excited bout small ball football lol calm down. Cuz truth be told Southern only played one comp team and that was on ESPN they represented the state well but other than that who have southern really beat ? None of the Big Dawgs they could schedule Berks Catholic etc … They don’t wanna ruin there little town tradition lol so they play teams who they know they can compete with.

  111. jc says:

    When I’m given examples of imagine what we would have won if we stayed where we were????? Lol lol lol what have you won??? Nothing!!!! Would you rather be the best team in your classification or one of the best teams in another classification that you moved up to and I think every kid would pick a state title. In this day and age you can’t use the excuse of more looks from colleges, that’s a cop out. If your good people know your good. So yes everyone knows all these smart adults would pick a couple district 12 championships over to many state titles to count.

  112. Kevin X says:

    @ Mark

    I’d trade you all 5 of those games for just one game against either Thomas Jefferson, ECP, Imhotep or Gov. Mifflin.

  113. #BUZZ says:

    @Mark u jus made the perfect example OF WHY THEY SHOULD BE ATLEAST A 4A school. How many of those 4 or 5A schools they gone beat ? That doesn’t even sound right they play 5A 4A 3A but compete on 2a bracket and dominate year in and year out. Imagine if Imhotep stayed @ 3A. I don’t think nobody would like that lol

    @Mcd65 Definitely Probably replace Berks Catholic

  114. jc says:

    Southern gets all the good kids in the area??? Lol southern Columbia has direct borders with north schuylkill ( a lot of people are not aware of this but it does have a border with ns, mount Carmel, Danville, berwick. They don’t get all the best players. In fact one of there better players even transferred out to berwick a few years ago. So many of your facts on the coal region are actually myths.

  115. mcd 65 says:

    Yo #Buzz, You left out Wood in your sweet 16 LOL.

  116. mark dodgson says:

    @BUZZ what do you want form Sothern they have this year on the schedule 4A Berwick 4A Selinsgrove 3A Wyoming area 3A Wyomissing and 2A MT Carmel all of these programs have won state titles What do you think they should do travel to Pittsburgh and Philly every week to play High School Football ? bet the budget would love that. they are a good program but they are still 2A school in the middle of no where .

  117. #Buzz says:

    @JC Your proud SC stays @ what 2A or 3A ??? Lol dominate year in and year out, HOW BOUT MOVE UP AND STEP YALL WEIGHT UP A CLASS OR 2 I heard y’all beat up on 4A and 5A schools but continue to play down lol yeah great 4 y’all.

    @Jeff Let’s be honest here Western PA Football has fell off a mountain. Don’t get me wrong WESTERN PA FOOTBALL IS HISTORICAL AND HAS GREAT MOMENTS IN HISTORY. But I say the last maybe 4-5 years I haven’t really seen a GOOD GROUP of kids produced from that side of PA. Since PineRichland QB #1. The problem with PIAA is that there playoff and division is outta wack they need to stack the competition in one playoff tourney let’s call it a open division sweet 16 all PA house hold name schools will compete 4 a PIAA title. There will be no classification 4 this division and these schools may OPENLY recruit because they WILL NOT COMPETE 4 CLASSIFICATION titles meaning they will compete amongst each other in a tourney of playoff form there will be no East and west side teams will be ranked amongst competition with a 3 year contract so if a team can’t compete @ high level or can’t recruit to get kids to there school they can drop out after 3 years and a new team can step in. But all other high schools will be placed in division with strict transferring rules. That would make PA FOOTBALL EXCITING AGAIN

    Sweet 16

  118. The Joneses says:

    @JC I knew it wouldn’t take you long to resort to name calling. I grew up the same way you did. My friends from my block, we all played on the same teams and went to the same HS. When I got to college I realized I missed out on opportunity to compete like it is in the real world. I’ll stop here because logic doesn’t appeal to you and name calling give me zero satisfaction. You have your opinion, I have mine and we’ll both enjoy them.

  119. FrankG says:

    @ mcd 65, You’ve hit the nail on the head. What we have in PA are entirely different school/community environments. There are no “Southern Columbia” type schools or communities in Philly or, to a large degree, in the SE PA area. Certainly in Philly, very few kids go to school with the same people from elementary through high school–and to some degree it’s been that way for decades, becoming even more and more that way over time. The absence of boundaries for both Catholic and public schools in Philly was both a cause and a result of deeper trends.

    What I’d like to see is some overall account of high school transfers–not just for student athletes. My impression is that there are more and more transfers in total but that basketball and football players are more likely to transfer–despite the PIAA rule change of a couple of years ago. It’s also my impression that the transfer rates vary very widely across the state–and why wouldn’t they since in most areas of the state there are only a couple of options if there are any options at all but that in SE PA there are many.

  120. mcd 65 says:

    @ JC,

    I appreciate your frustration, BUT You clearly dont understand how the competition in the Philly area works. Yes there is recruiting to some degree by many schools but it is not like the whole team is being sought after as some make it out to be. The Imhotep team is comprised almost entirely of home grown [in your words] players from North Philly. Consider those players have their choice of playing for ANY Public HS in the city and the best players are being sought after by most of the PCL schools as well as the Inter -Ac league teams. Albie Crosby left for Neuman/Goretti but good players still choose to attend Tep . Who does the likes of Southern Columbia compete with for players ???? Ahem- None so they get every good player in their area and coach them up. Those kids know where they will be going to high school at a young age and are taught the SC systems as youngsters . I have great respect for the SC program and their coaches . there are tons of differences area to area so lets enjoy good football wherever and whatever the circumstances are .

  121. jc says:

    The joneses you are a moron. Everyone getting a participation trophy lol. I guess I’m old school. I went to my high school and played sports with kids who I played with since I was 5 years old. My high school still plays that way and won a district title last year and finished the year undefeated. There ranked number 1 in the state early in the season and if a whole lot of things go there way they could have a successful season and go a long way in states. And there kids who know each other and whose families know each other. Take your prep schools and charter schools and catholic schools and let them figure things out and play each other.

  122. Jeff H. says:

    #Buzz – I live in Western Pa and have followed high school football in this state since the 1970’s, I am not a big fan of PCC and never mind seeing them lose because their fan base and student body are pretty condescending towards other schools, but to say they are scared of competition at the highest level is a bit disingenuous and not accurate. First of all unlike most of the rest of the state WPIAL teams have very little flexibility in scheduling as the WPIAL makes the schedule for all WPIAL opponents, it’s true they could schedule an out of state team in the first few weeks of the season, but they typically have taken on other powerhouse teams from around the state, like Imhotep a few weeks ago and Erie Prep in years past. In fact they played a home and home with Erie Prep in 2017-2018, just because the don’t play teams from Ohio or other neighboring states doesn’t mean they don’t take on other top teams from around PA. And to PCC’s credit they play the best nonconference teams in the WPIAL regardless of classification, including Penn Hills last week and Pine Richland this week, while snobby North Alleghany refuses to play any 5a teams because they would look bad if they lose so they schedule opponents from Ohio instead, I guess it makes them feel better losing 35-0 to Pickering from Ohio than play a top 5a team from the WPIAL and risk losing.

    Imhotep fans should be excited this year, they have one of the most talented teams in the state regardless of classification, and they are the favorite to win 5a, but they have been the favorite many times in the past and have 1 state title to show for it. I agree they would have likely gone on a deep run in the playoffs last year, but I’m not so sure they would have beaten Pine Richland in the final, that would have been a tremendous game and it’s a shame for fans in this state it didn’t play out that way.

  123. The Joneses says:

    @JC I guess your not as enlightened as your think. It’s a PIAA rule period. Not just for public schools. Ask Wood about it and what ECP may be looking at this year. I fine with any other argument or debate on Tep. I am just saying kill the recruiting crying. Your analogy is even off. The participation trophy era is never going to overtake the world of sports as you’d like. You have Pitt & Pennstate able offer a different stipend amount to students. Ivy’s don’t grant scholarships, but as the Yale coach told my son, “no one who Yale wanted to play football for them, and they wanted Yale, failed to attend because of money”. On top of that, there’s a reason why a kid not in the district can attend a public by paying tuition. It has been done.

    I, like a real fan, appreciate what SC has done and continues to do. I would like them to play some of the other teams to see how dominant the program really is. It’s not to diminish at all. I liken it to Jordan vs Kobe debate etc. I don’t hate on the winning programs or the loosing ones. Do they best with what you have because complaining does nothing.

  124. The Joneses says:

    @Buzz SJP has 4 also (2 WR, DB, DT) and 3 more are getting playing time this year. The QB is a 24 kid who got the start this season. Still early. Roman is close behind. It’s being said the class of 24 is the most loaded class in a long time if not ever.

  125. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    District 11 is in a 4 team sub bracket with District 2. Winner of that bracket plays another sub bracket winner between Districts 6, 8 and 10. Guessing that will be a Whitehall/ECP game. Winner of that game plays the District 12 champ, more than likely Jc’s Imhotep (but you know, its like 12 weeks away and anything can happen, which I hate to admit, is actually true, more doing with the Covid than anything else). Don’t know of any other challengers in D12 other than maybe Father Judge. Probably be your PCL/PPL D12 final. Winner of all of that plays the District 1 champ (let’s go with Upper Dublin :))

  126. Jc says:

    How dare anyone say anything except imotep is the best, won’t give up a td, has the toughest schedule, lol. I guess your not up to date on the transfer rule which public schools have to move up in class if they have so many transfers. Yes I get some public schools try and recruit but cmon it’s legal for your charter, catholic and prep schools to do so. It’s almost comparing an Ivy League school who didn’t give athletic scholarships at one time to an sec football school who has everyone who is playing on an athletic scholarship. There is no bigger disadvantage in sports comparable than Pennsylvania allowing private and public schools play for the same title. And I live in a neighboring school district with southern Columbia and if you really new anything about southern you would know they don’t need to recruit anyone. There homegrown kids and unlike imotep they win every week and every year and they don’t care if they give up a point this year or if they play the toughest schedule they care whether they hold a trophy over there heads almost every year.

  127. The Joneses says:

    @JC can you please stop acting like public schools do not recruit! They can’t do it at the same lengths as others and it likely because they do not have the tools or substance to do it. If the public high school coach, AD, teacher etc. talks to a child about staying or coming to the high school instead of going/transferring to private/catholic school, it is the very definition of recruiting.

    Been there done that, it happens.
    You already know its not against the PIAA rules for them to do it, so they aren’t cheating.
    Finally, Tep hasn’t won a bunch of championships or have a new legendary winning streak like SC. Does this ever get tiring?

  128. #Buzz says:

    U sound like a hater and don’t know Imhotep. They play national teams every year this will be THERE 3 consecutive time play Dematha. 2-1 in the last 3 years now if you talking bout a ducking comp program look @ PCC they play there normal league schedule every year no outta state comp or anything. Why ? Cuz there scared of competition @ the highest level. Imhotep played Dematha the year before Covid hit they played Bergen Catholic and Dematha also Malvern and Lasalle. Imhotep runs from nobody and the fans are excited this year cuz last year would have been a State Championship run they missed out on so we’re excited to see how far the kids go. Jus cuz your highschool team probably got smashed by them don’t hate

    @ Joneses
    Imhotep might have that class as well they have bout 4-4 kids in that 24 class with FBS offers I think 2 CB and 2 DT if I’m not mistaken

  129. Jeff H. says:

    @Kevin X – where does D11 factor into the 5a bracket, who would they play in the quarterfinals? Are they in the western bracket and would play the D3 winner, presumably Mifflin, with the winner taking on the D7 champ in the semi’s. Last year was such a bizarre bracket due to all the forfeits so I can’t remember which districts were slated to play where. Whitehall from D11 has a very solid team and I would expect them to be competitive in the playoffs.

  130. The Joneses says:


    Yeah Tep has every class locked in except 24. They continue to put kids in college. Many thought the program will fail after Albie left. Now they just want it to fail. Gotta love what they do. I had the pleasure of talking to a few coaches and they try to also build great young men.

  131. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G, You have some good points there. DeMatha isn’t the same team this year. I expected Tep to beat them. Roman will lose to them because they aren’t that good yet. I think Gonzaga & Milton are better than other non-league game scheduled. Gonzaga just beat McDonugh 26-6 and LaSalle plays McDonugh. I will say this is probably the best not league schedule we’ve seen for schools in a long time. It typically has only been prep once LaSalle stopped doing it as much.

    @Jeff H it would really suck if ECP was forced to move up.

  132. Jc says:

    Imotep charter fans are in the early lead for the most ridiculous fans so far this year. Worried about whether they have the toughest schedule, who they are going to play 12 weeks from now and whether they were going to give up a point all year. Here is an idea, they should play one of the toughest schedules every year. They recruit and are allowed to which 90 % of the Piaa are not allowed to do. But to be so dumb and arrogant to not think anything can happen from now till 12 weeks from now affecting wins and losses makes you a dummy. With covid and injuries you can’t take anything for granted.

  133. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Assuming that the PIAA didn’t tweak the brackets when I wasn’t looking, yes, they are the same this year as last, hopefully with more teams actually playing on the east side. If Imhotep and ECP do meet up, and it’s kind of crazy to think they wouldn’t (don’t they always), they’d be playing in the quarter finals. Winner of that game would play the D1 champ in the eastern finals/state semis.

    Saw something a little while ago that if ECP makes it to that quarter finals game, and even if they loose that game, and if they have the required 3 or more transfers, they’d move up to 6A for the next 2 year cycle.

  134. Michael says:

    @Mcd65 – I heard the game is @ 1

  135. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    It may be that for the fist time this century SJP’s non-league schedule is not the hardest–by far–of any school in the area. I wouldn’t, however, say SJP’s isn’t at least “close” to Tep’s. St. Mary was not as good as expected, but Milton (from Georgia), despite the one loss in their first three games, may be as good as anyone Tep is playing and Gonzaga (2-0 so far) is probably better than PCC or DeMatha–or LaSalle.

  136. NW PA says:

    Greetings from the great northwest, it’s been awhile. @Jeff H I believe the brackets will be the same as last year but you just never know. To piggy back off your statement, Tep and Mifflin are the top 2 5A teams in the state. Erie Cathedral has a solid team this year but they are fairly young, they only start 4 seniors on each side of the ball and start 3 sophomores and 4 juniors. They will be relevant in the playoffs but they don’t beat those top 2. We will find out how good Erie Cathedral is in the coming weeks as they play Solon Ohio, Buffalo St Francis, Benedictine, and Mcdowell all in a row. I think they beat St Francis, and loose to Benedictine, but Solon and Mcdowell will be very close. Mcdowell lost some firepower to graduation but still has their massive line from last year.

  137. Jeff H. says:

    @#Buzz – I agree Erie Prep will be a factor in the playoffs as usual, but at this point I’d say Imhotep and Mifflin are the 2 best 5a teams in the state and think if anyone in 5a beats Imhotep it will be Mifflin. Does anyone know if ECP is on the Eastern side of the bracket like they were last year. If they are not then they would probably play Mifflin in the quarterfinals because the WPIAL winner enters the state tournament in the semi-finals. Assuming ECP is in the east I foresee Imhotep vs. Erie in one semi-final and Mifflin vs. WPIAL winner (likely Penn Trafford) in the other semi.

  138. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy, anybody else……

    Does anyone have a tougher, more challenging non league/conference schedule than ‘Tep this year?? Granted, only 3 games, but still……… I don’t know if anyone is even close, maybe LaSalle??

  139. phillyboy says:

    Imhotep and DeMatha were supposed to play at the NW Supersite Friday night. From a block away I could sense something was terribly wrong. There was no energy, no buses, nobody on the field, nobody in the stands. When I saw the padlocked gates my suspicion became a certainty. Dog gone it, phillyboy himself makes an appearance and this is the gratitude he gets — I tell you, smh. At the eleventh hour they flipped the script, ‘Why you flip on me, homie?’ Anyway, glad to see Imhotep vanquished the darlings of DC. If they can keep it rolling against LaSalle next week and complete the hat trick, that would be a monster 3-0 start, putting them on the national radar.

  140. says:

    I certainly appreciate this website. Continue the good work!

  141. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Mifflin obviously will make a lot of teams look bad this year, but Wilson had chances to make the game closer. To beat Mifflin a team will have to avoid turnovers and sustain drives. My feeling is that Wilson will rebound and get better as the season moves along. Their next game against Exeter should be a good test for them.

  142. Wilson4Ever says:

    TF I don’t think the extra remarks you made about the Wilson QB were necessary to get your points across. Like I said he still has to learn the complex Wilson system better for them to contend for another championship this year. Thank you.

  143. mcd 65 says:

    @ Michael, I read the laSalle /Tep game was at noon ,Springfield ,Montgomery county just off route 309. Where did you hear 7 ?? thanks

  144. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul 51 New Hope 0 Score was 44-0 at halftime Hard to tell how good the Golden Panthers are as Archbishop Carroll and New Hope don’t look very strong this year. I will say this PJP’S basketball on grass offense is really fun to watch. New Hope looked to have about 35 players, PJP easily doubled that number, I heard PJP has 33 Freshman on the team. The schedule gets a lot tougher with Inter Ac Springside Chestnut Hill Academy next week and Berks Catholic the following week.

  145. Michael says:

    It says the Imhotep/ Lasalle game is at Springfield High School next Saturday @ 7; Anyone know what Springfield high they are talking about?

  146. #Buzz says:


    The point I was making is that Isheem beat all odds and continued to pursue his dreams with the help of Imhotep alumni and staff.


    I still like ECP as Imhotep biggest threat.

  147. Jeff H says:

    From afar it appears Imhotep and Gov Mifflin are the top 2 teams in the state in 5a and wouldn’t be surprised if they meet in Hershey for the state title, assuming the brackets are the same as last year and D3 plays D7 in the semi-finals. I have not seen Penn Trafford yet and think they are the best 5a team in the WPIAL, they have a very interesting game next week against 4a Belle Vernon who will challenge TJ for the 4a district title

    Speaking of TJ they were very impressive against Gateway last night until they got conservative late in the 3rd quarter after going up 21-3 and almost allowed Gateway to come back and steal one, as expected they dominated in the trenches and that was the difference in the game, Gateway QB Brad Birch was under constant pressure and sacked numerous times. TJ’s defense set the tone right off the bat, Gateway started on their own 20 after a touchback, first running play lost 2 yards, then 2 straight sacks had Gateway punting from their end zone, and a low snap resulted in a safety and before fans had settled into their seats it was 2-0. Penn Trafford is built very similar to TJ, big and strong offensive line, power running game, and very good defense, I expect their lines will batter Gateway just like TJ did last night when they play next month.

    Agree the game next week between LaSalle and Imhotep may be the best game in the state, there certainly will be no shortage of D1 talent on either side, will be a good indicator of whether LaSalle can challenge SJP this year.

  148. Kevin X says:

    @ #Buzz

    I wouldn’t exactly be putting Isheem Young on top of your ‘Tep pedestal.

  149. mcd 65 says:

    # Buzz, Ditto Tep. Next week a real battle with LaSalle . This one should be one of the best matches thus far this year.

  150. #Buzz says:

    Imhotep beats Dematha

    Then I come to realize they have the top player in the state in 3 of the 4 next classes

    2022 Enai White
    2023 Rahmir Steward
    2024 ?
    2025 Zahir Mathis

    That’s crazy all on one team HOME GROWN people may hate on that program but that program produces studs and not kids that go to college and drop out 4 example Isheem Young if many remember was Imhotep top player @ one point. He’s now Iowa State Saftey #1 and is noticed as one of the nation top player. I did research on there roster they currently have 17 D1 players though out classes 2022-2025. That is crazy not mentioning how many kids go D2 from there. I jus wanna give a great program its flowers. Coming from Philadelphia I know football wasn’t big there and to see where it is now is great. Congratz 2 Da “TEP”

  151. Thomas Foley says:

    Jeff H, left the Wilson/Mifflin game at halftime, it was a repeat blowout from last year. Mifflin looks to be every bit as good as last year. Wilson’s hyped and well traveled QB-(3rd school in 4 years) looked completely overmatched. The Wilson/Exeter game next week will tell if Exeter is going to make it a 2 team race in District 3 5A this year.

  152. Wilson4Ever says:

    GM 42-Wilson 14. Governor Mifflin was clearly the better team tonight on offense and defense and also with Nick Singleton it was like trying to stop a landslide. GM has plenty of weapons and they didn’t need any help but that’s exactly what they got from a Wilson team that constantly shot themselves in the foot in the first half with some sloppy play by not taking care of the ball fumbling and giving GM some short fields to work with. Wilson played better in the second half with both teams scoring 14 points a piece but the damage was already done and with the mercy rule clock running it made things even worse.The Wilson transfer QB from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman didn’t play well and he still has to learn the complex Wilson system a lot better for Wilson to contend for a title again this year. He was out of rhythm and used some bad judgement by trying to get rid of the ball instead of taking a sack on one play which led to a fumble and was inaccurate on most of his throws but he did have a couple of nice runs but things kind of snowballed from there with the constant bad field position Wilson was in. Give GM credit for taking advantage of Wilson’s mistakes and by keeping Wilson off balance by moving the ball by spreading it around and by playing good defense allowing them to keep the Gurski-Linn Trophy for another year which is probably one of the biggest high school rivalry trophy’s in the nation (seeing is believing). They bring it out on the field on a cart and it takes a couple of big players from the winning team to lift it high in the air after the game is over. LOL.

  153. Jeff H. says:

    Surprised there’s not more comments about the Governor Mifflin vs. WWL game tonight, there were some posts about this game last weekend, but none for the last several days. On paper this rivalry is one of the better games in the state tonight, do you Wilson guys think your defense is going to have much luck in slowing down Nick Singleton? I know Mifflin blasted Wilson last year, I expect this game will be much closer but I still think Mifflin wins by 2 scores.

    The most intriguing game in the WPIAL tonight is Gateway vs. Thomas Jefferson and that’s the game I’ll be attending, Gateway is preseason #1 in 5A in the WPIAL, TJ #1 in 4A (what else is new!)
    Fascinating matchup between TJ’s strength in the trenches against Gateway’s speed and skill players, very interested to see how Gateway sophomore quarterback Brad Birch looks against TJ’s defense, he’s already got an offer from Oregon. Gateway has a slight advantage from playing an actual game last week and not a scrimmage, but I have a hunch TJ’s advantage in the trenches will wear down Gateway’s defense in the 2nd half so I’m picking TJ to come away with a big road win in a close game.

  154. Matt says:

    What a game last night between Northwestern and Northern Lehigh. Two rivals going back and fourth. NL missed two or attempt to take lead with 2 min left. NL will be force in dist 11 2A. Schedule is brutal for them. They played pa preps state ranked number 1 muncy last week +and won by three scores) NW who is 4A honorable mention this week. In a few weeks it’s Notre Dame and NS back to back who are both top 5 in 3A. They could be 7-3 at end of year and be a very good team with close to loses to that’s higher class tanked teams. Of course any chance of a trip to Hershey for them is gone with Southern Columbia almost guaranteed to be there in AA. NW is going to be tough in 4A and give Beca a run. A bunch of big games in the valley tonight headlined by Emmaus and Freedom.

  155. David Mika says:


  156. Buddy says:

    Rankings ?

  157. d6football says:

    Thanks Jeff H. I did some reading and it appears the rabbit hole is much deeper. Apparently the coach has active warrants out for his arrest for fraud. This article explains my question earlier as to whom was funding the team.

    Apparently this is the same coach who arranged the COF Academy that North Allegheny played in 2018.

  158. Jeff H. says:

    To add some more to the Bishop Sycamore saga Ron Coursey, the former AD at Woodland Hills who organized the WPIAL vs. Everyone Classic (he moved on to be the AD at Chambersburg this summer), was quoted in the local paper as saying the Sycamore coach told him they had a high school team and a Prep team, and Coursey told him they had to bring their high school team in order to comply with PIAA rules, and also made them sign a PA contract that stipulated they wouldn’t use any 5th yr players and otherwise comply with all PIAA guidelines. Coursey was further quoted as saying he looked into their opponents from last year and that’s why he scheduled them against a 2A team in Sto-Rox, who is one of the favorites to win 2A in the WPIAL.

    I don’t know if anyone caught any footage of that game, but in a bizarre twist both teams wore black pants and black jerseys, when it was 90 degrees and muggy with a heat index near 100, the Sycamore coach said they forgot to pack their white road jerseys, in 45+ years of watching HS football can’t say I’ve ever seen a game in which both teams wore the same color pants and jerseys, I have no idea how the officials could tell them apart.

  159. Jeff H. says:

    Thought I would make some comments and observations from the PR vs Harrisburg game on Saturday. Impressive comeback by the Cougars, they were down 14-0 early in the 2nd quarter, and with such a young team on a hot and humid afternoon it would have been easy for them to get rattled, but to their credit they hung in there, scored a TD late in the 2nd to cut it to 14-6 at half, then made some adjustments at halftime and clearly outplayed PR in the 2nd half, having a lot success running the ball between the tackles. Mahkai Hopkins is a load to tackle, MaxPreps lists him at 6’1″ 235 but he looks bigger, Kyle Williams also had over 100 yards rushing, and the Harrisburg OL dominated and wore down PR in the 2nd half. It was obvious Harrisburg had the better conditioning, PR definitely looked gassed in the 2nd half, and there were more kids on Harrisburg playing both ways than PR. Harrisburg is a solid team, but I think their lack of depth will catch up to them against some of the tougher teams in D3, along with starting a freshman at QB

    As for PR they looked disorganized quite often, on at least 3 occasions they only had 10 guys on the field, and once even lined up on the wrong side for a kickoff, kids arguing with coaches on the sideline, definitely not the same confident team that won a state title last year. I know it’s only 1 game but based on what I saw I expect PR to lose a few more games, this coaching staff appears to be in way over their heads and they will be outcoached in most games, although they will still make the playoffs because they are in a weak conference.

    As of right now I’d make Penn Trafford the favorite to win their first ever WPIAL title after finishing as runner-up 5 times, although Gateway seems to have their number in the playoffs, PT wins the regular season game and then Gateway knocks them off in the playoffs, but I think PT has a big advantage over Gateway in the trenches and that may give them the upper hand in their quest for an elusive district title.

  160. mcd 65 says:

    Will the St. Joe Prep/ St. Mary Rykin game be live streamed anywhere ??

  161. mcd 65 says:

    @ joneses, I went to McD in District 12 not the one that played LaSalle. They were supposed to be loaded with several D1 players . LaSalle is loaded as well for sure.

    I recall reading about Bishop Sycamore a couple years ago . They were supposed to become the IMG of the North, at least thats what they were selling. I was watching that IMG game until the rain delay. Sycamore was terrible. What a scam !!!

  162. Chief Red Raider says:

    thanks Kevin X

  163. d6football says:

    Thanks Kevin. Yikes, so many questions about this whole ordeal. How did they get kids from all over the country who mostly graduated to form this “school”?, Who funds the team and travel? Who thought it was a good idea for the players to turnaround on a days notice and play a top 5 national team after losing to a good WPIAL small school? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the course of the year.

  164. Kevin X says:

    @ d6

    Short answer: Yes

    Longer answer:

  165. d6football says:

    Could anyone fill me in further on this Bishop Sycamore deal? Was this the same squad who played Sto-Rox friday evening and then IMG on Sunday?

  166. The Joneses says:

    @FrankG- You’ve been around long enough to know which individuals will find something blameworthy with any they do at SJP.

  167. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Yes, “desperate” is the correct word.

  168. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65 Ewers leaving HS early was not about getting to play at Ohio State this year. It was about him receiving close to 800K in endorsement money via NIL. I agree either he or McCord will be in the portal next year. Is McDevitt as bad as the LaSalle score suggested? Putting up that score with 2 key starters not playing makes me wonder.

  169. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X

    SJP was scheduled to play Bishop Sycamore last year. They were desperate to put together a season and looked everywhere in the five or six states closest to Philly. Bishop Sycamore was one of two non-PCL schools that said “yes,” partly, it seems, because they are a program with some ambition. I don’t see anything blameworthy in what the Prep did.

  170. Kevin X says:

    So have you guys been getting a good laugh out of this ESPN/IMG/Bishop Sycamore debacle from yesterday?? You really want to know what is wrong with high school football??

    Funny thing also is that St. Joe Prep was scheduled to play Bishop Sycamore last year (or was it 2 years ago??)

  171. Kevin X says:

    Chief, you can try the below link (expanded box score, no write-up), but not sure if it will work…..

  172. mcd 65 says:

    phillyboy, This Ewers skipping his senior year of HS is just ridiculous. It would be realistic to find him sitting the bench for a couple years behind Stroud and McCord. Better yet he goes to the portal. I dont wish the kid ill will , but if he succeeds early it could begin a trend that would not be good for HS football.

  173. Wilson4Ever says:

    I agree 100% Scott G. Hagy. No matter what year it is with this rivalry you have to be at very your best to come out on top because this is one of the best rivalries in the state of Pennsylvania. And especially the last couple of years since Governor Mifflin has had some of their best teams ever with Nick Singleton leading them. It’s always a classic but this one could be one of the best ever in this very old heated rivalry game. The past games has included some crazy pranks played on each other’s schools (that we can’t mention here) and pageantry on a smaller scale of course similar to the Ohio State-Michigan and Army-Navy games. And in early the days this was always the last game played on the schedule with the suspense and pressure building up every week but some scheduling problems ended that.

  174. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Wilson was clearly better than Central Dauphin with all their starters in, but a shocking number got dinged up enough to put backups in and it turned what looked like a comfortable win into a nail biter.
    Obviously they’re going to need their best playing at their peak next game.

  175. FrankG says:

    @phillyboy I feel the same about the Ewers situation. A terrible precedent and a symptom of a big problem. Years ago I saw some widely-shared stats about the actual chances high school basketball “stars” would ever play a single game in the NBA let alone have a decent career in the league. You know what the stats showed: the chances were extremely low. Someone should do the same with football. I wonder if Ewers’ parents ever considered that the chances of his having a career-ending serious knee or shoulder injury are much higher than the chance of his ever being a starting NFL QB. And I’m leaving aside any educational or developmental considerations.

  176. Chief Red Raider says:

    Is there a news blackout on the Coatesville/CB West game? :). I know Coatesville won, but could not find a write up anywhere. Two storied teams, but crickets on PA preps, Bucks times, here, etc.

  177. Kevin X says:

    @ Phillyboy

    Yeah, heard about the Ewers situation, can’t say I’m really paying much, if any, attention to it tho. Sounds like mostly driven by the NIL ruling. Honestly don’t care, no opinion, his business. What I am curious about going forward is what kind of competition he will give Kyle McCord. Which one will enter the transfer portal first.

  178. EmanD3 says:

    They big key to that Wilson win over CD…

    Wilson rushing stats..44/297 and 3 scores.
    CD rarely gives up 300 on the ground, so let’s give some cred to that WWL O line. They controlled the trenches for most of the night!

    Stopping Singleton from Governor Mifflin next Friday is another story. Not to worry…he only had 284 on the ground with 5 rushing TD’s yesterday!! GM attempted one pass the entire game…so let’s see what the Wilson D cord. dials up

  179. EmanD3 says:

    Speaking of Southern Columbia…Wyomissing travels there in a few weeks. Be curious to see how that plays out! Wyo has a lot of hardware in their storied history…plus even when they lose, they rarely get blown out. There will be a lot of tailgating on both sides for that one. Hope Wyo can keep it close!

  180. Wilson4Ever says:

    The Wilson /Central Dauphin rivalry game between the powers of the Mid Penn Conference and the Lancaster-Lebanon Conference lived up to all the hype. It turned into a good old fashioned slobber knocker. The earlier part of the game was mostly dominated by Wilson’s stud running backs Jadyn Jones and Gavin Lenart. Then later in the game after those two Wilson running backs got dinged up with some injuries Central Dauphin came roaring back and made it close with their own running game powered by Tyler English and some slick play by CDs QB Max Mosey taking control of things. Final score was Wilson 27 Central Dauphin 20. This game is always an instant classic that’s listed as one of the top games in the state every year.

  181. David Mika says:

    Southern Columbia has one 61 straight games.

  182. phillyboy says:

    Just wanted to get something off my chest, did anybody hear about the Quinn Ewers situation? He was to be entering his senior season at Southlake Carrol High School in the Dallas area this year. He was considered the #1 high school QB prospect in the country playing for one of the most prominent football programs in Texas. Southlake won 3 straight state titles and a couple USA Today mythical national championships back in the mid 2000’s as I remember. They had a deep run in last year’s playoffs so would have been interesting to see if they could ‘get the thing done’ as Andy Reid would say. Well so much for that, he is now enrolled at Ohio State. What on earth is that all about?! We’ve known about players leaving college early for decades now, not a problem, it’s big business, I get it. But leaving high school a year early, come on man, completely ridiculous. First of all, how is it even possible, doesn’t one have to complete HS to be eligible for the next level. Beyond that, is it worth foregoing the enjoyment of the promising senior season for the naming rights chump change? Even if it’s substantial, stands to reason the same deals will be available one year later. I remember Dan Connor left to Penn State after his senior season in ’03 in January of ’04 but at least he got in his senior season. Anyway, got more important things to be concerned about, just some thoughts. I will say this, good to see he chose Ohio State, as the Buckeyes are the North’s best chance of winning a national title — so tired of seeing the South dominate.

    Regarding Southern Columbia, does anybody know at what is their current win streak? Watched part of their game last night on youtube. Goodness gracious, I wish there were more public programs like that, so enjoyable to watch.

  183. EmanD3 says:

    Big Boy football in West Lawn..Wilson 27-21 over Central Dauphin. First team up 27-7, with 4 minutes left. CD scores 14 against second team. WWL OL out shined CD’s OL..that was the difference. Plus Bulldogs QB and RB’s played well. Next week @ Governor Mifflin…we shall see!

  184. mcd 65 says:

    Archbishop Wood handled Neshaminy easily with a great defense and an improved passing game. Their next weeks game against Neuman/Goretti should be a good game as NG beat a very solid Roman squad . Woods defense has good size and very good athleticism . They get to the ball quickly and their pass rush is impressive . Most impressive imo were their Linebackers and Defensive backs.

  185. Foleman says:

    34-27 Central York over Exeter. Great game that came down to the last minute. Exeter is very talented, CY’S Pribula a man among boys. I don’t remember either team punting. This is a game that Exeter should have won by 2 scores. Exeter was down in the red zone 5 times in the 1st half and came away with only 14 points, however, a pass interference play in the end zone against CY wasn’t called. Bonehead play calling in the red zone cost Exeter, their stud fullback Yocum was running wild against CY’S defense and Exeter calls a pass play on 2nd and 2 from the CY 19 which resulted in a sack and then a missed field goal. They did something similar in the 3rd quarter which cost them points again. Exeter has as much talent as any team in District 3-I believe they have 5 div 1 prospects and their QB is also VG, they have the talent to beat the heavyweights on their schedule-Wilson, Governor Mifflin and Berks Catholic plus they could win District 3 5A. Do they have the coaching to do this? Exeter has been coming up small in big games the last several years, this looks to be their best team.

  186. EmanD3 says:

    Central York beats 5A Exeter today, 35-28, but Exeter gave them all they could handle. Exeter stalls on CY 8 with 30 sec to go. Pribula is a beast at QB, with good WR’s. Exeter will score a lot points this year and win a lot of games. CY run D not so good. Also, Exeter one TD called back, missed 2 FG’s, and QB threw a pick at CY 20 early in the 4th…..Good game!! Central Dauphin @ Wilson WL, next at 6:00

  187. Jeff H. says:

    Imhotep defense as good as advertised, they win a defensive slugfest with PCC 12-6. Score was 3-0 PCC at half, after a Tep turnover at their own 39 midway through first quarter PCC drove down to the 5, but 3 straight negative plays led to a 33 yard field goal and that held up until half. Tep took 2nd half kick and went on an impressive 80 yard drive with all running plays, most of them out of the wildcat, that took 6 minutes off the clock, 2 point try failed and Tep led 6-3. They traded punts and on the ensuing possession Tep turned the ball over again and PCC ended up kicking a 46 yard field goal to tie at 6-6 with just under 11 minutes to go. They traded punts again and Tep got the better of the field position and went on a 46 yard drive to take the lead 12-6 with 1:48 to go, then held PCC on 4th down and the game was over. Both defenses are excellent, especially Tep’s, team speed is off the charts and they fly to the ball, White and Wylie are dynamic playmakers and consistently disrupted the offense. Tep is going to be a handful in 5A and I see why they are preseason number 1, I will see PR tomorrow and Gateway and the other top WPIAL 5a teams over the next several weeks, based on what I saw tonight I have my doubts any of the WPIAL teams are going to be able to do much against Tep’s defense.

  188. mcd 65 says:

    Same old Imhotep Penalties are rampant . If they ever get some discipline they would be great , but year after year its the same deal.

  189. EmanD3 says:

    CD @ WWL rescheduled until tomorrow at 6.
    Nasty lightning storm from about 6:30- 7:30..they evacuated the stadium just in time

  190. New2PA says:

    Here’s a tweet I saw with a link to the Imhotep-PCC game:

  191. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. Yes. I am not doing preseason rankings…I will have rankings next week.

  192. Matt says:

    Hey Dave,

    Will you be releasing the top 5 in each class today?

  193. EmanD3 says:

    Also in Berks County…Central York @ Exeter(5A). Lot of people hyping Exeter this year. We will found out quickly how good they are, after facing the best QB in the state of Pa. Don’t forget CY put up 42 on CD last year in D3 6A final!

  194. David Mika says:

    Enjoy your season! If anyone on here wants to help cover a game(s) for us let me know. You can email me at

    Take care!

  195. EmanD3 says:

    Will be at Central Dauphin @ Wilson(West Lawn)….should be a slobber knocker.

  196. David Mika says:

    Thank you for the update!

  197. CTHS 55 says:

    Lewisburg @ Shamokin has been moved to Sat. @ 3:30

  198. Jeff H. says:

    @mcd 65 – I still like Tep’s chances against PCC even with the RB out, I think both offenses are going to struggle to put together long drives, turnovers and special teams could very well decide it, anticipate a fairly low scoring game, something like 20-14. I will be there and post a report tomorrow night after the game, will also be at the PR vs Harrisburg game on Saturday afternoon, and the nightcap with Woody vs. Wayne Valley NJ. To answer someone else’s question I’m not aware of the Tep-PCC game being livestreamed tomorrow night but both the PR-Harrisburg and Woody-Wayne games on Saturday can be found on

  199. mcd 65 says:

    Here we go !!!! I will be heading to the Wood /Neshaminy game Friday night . Where are you headed ?????

  200. Mike says:

    Definitely got to go see Milton vs Prep; Milton has the #1 2023 Prospect, wanna see the game plan to block him.

  201. Matt says:

    Northern Lehigh picked up #1 state A ranked Muncy after Panther Valley had to cancel. Northern Lehigh who returns a lot including 6ft 1″ 225 lb running back Matt Frame will now have a huge test to travel up to Muncy on a day notice and play a great A team. Northern Lehigh also had Notre Dame and North Schuylkill on the reschedule. That’s 3 top 5 state ranked teams for the HM AA team.

  202. D6Football says:

    Does anyone know of any streams of the games this weekend in the wpial showcase?

  203. Buddy says:


    No, they shouldn’t avoid the PCL ( other than Prep). Like I said, they should go 10 and 0 ( SOL opponents only).

    Their toughest game will be Neshaminy. Didn’t see the CD scrimmage, heard NP 1st team dominated.

    Let the games begin!

  204. FridayKnightLights says:


    The contract was up and not renewed. I somewhat agree with what you’re saying but at the same time I like the idea of avoiding the PCL teams until the semis. I would like to have seen them schedule a tougher non-league schedule though because I think this team can be very good this year. Other than Pennridge they should roll to the playoffs but they need to figure the defense out. Been their Achilles heal since ’16. How do you see the Knights this year? Any feedback on the CD scrimmage?

  205. Buddy6 says:

    What is everyone thoughts on the Manheim central vs Cumberland valley game should be a great first game. I heard both teams are improved from last year and should go far in the playoffs in their classification.

  206. Buddy says:

    I assume the North Penn/LaSalle contract is up. Unfortunate. NP will probably go 10 -0 ’cause they only play the SOL this year.

    What happened to playing one of the Downingtowns, or Coatesville or bring back LaSalle? I can understand not playing Prep.

    Only other private prep schools should play prep. Too dominate. Gotta play the best to become the best. Maybe next year I hope.

  207. mcd 65 says:

    Imhoteps starting RB looks to be out for the PCC game Friday due to an injury vs. Wood .

  208. Wilson4Ever says:

    I attended the Wilson WL/Coatsville scrimmage and thought it was very competitive. Both teams looked very strong but I would honestly have to give Wilson the slight edge overall because of their defense and because of a little more yardage on the ground and through the air. And the reason for that slight edge has to go to an X factor. And this kid that I called the X factor actually shocked me because I never expected him to be so flawless and cool under heavy pressure. He is the new kid on the block from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman the 6’1″ 216 lb. QB. He could make big waves throughout the state if he continues learning how to run that complex Wilson system and also if he keeps improving hinself.

  209. Wilson4Ever says:

    I attended the Wilson WL/Coatsville scrimmage and thought the slight edge overall went to Wilson because of better defense and more plays being converted running and passing. And I also thought the big X factor that gave us that slight edge actually shocked me because of his cool and flawless control of the entire show. He was the new kid on the block from Berks Catholic Brad Hoffman the 6’1″ 216 lb. QB. I’m sure he will be making some big waves through out the state if he continues to progress and learns how to run the complex Wilson system even more.

  210. Kevin X says:

    Yeah, I saw that right after I submitted.

    Gotta love Olsommer. Will play anyone, anywhere, anytime!!

    Hope everyone has their schedules written in pencil. Schedules are gonna get ugly.

  211. David Mika says:

    Delaware Valley picked up Gateway…

  212. Kevin X says:

    Well here we go….I guess it was inevitable. First Del Val cancelled their FLA trip (guessing more of a Florida/travel issue), now a few other local games cancelled as well. Probably also Phx-Ville and Shanahan next week. Maybe Great Valley can take a weekend trip up to the Poconos and play Del Val (if they are still looking for a game).

  213. Kevin X says:

    @ Tweeter

    My bad. Maybe I should have been more specific. Yeah, I was only there for the final 40-45 minutes. Guess I didn’t witness the first teams.

  214. Tweeter says:

    @kevinX I’m not sure what you you mean when you said “Looked like tho it was North Penn that just got off the bus after an early morning wake up call and 2 hour journey.” I guess you didn’t see the NP CD 1’s vs 1’s. NP pretty much could do whatever they wanted. CD did not score on their 1s while NP moved the ball and scored a couple times. You must of only saw the back-ups for NP.

  215. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin x, I was referencing the Senior not the Soph QB. Teps D line was a big factor with their pass rush , so maybe they will improve vs other teams . I do agree that Soph has nice potential and could move up quickly with experience.

  216. mark dodgson says:

    @ Helen i want to start by saying i was not at the Valley View Southern scrimmage. i was told that Valley view looked pretty good a far as not scoring was told they were working on a lot of stuff that not their strength. am sure southern has a great Team and will win states again but let play some games and not hand medals out over a scrimmage

  217. The Joneses says:

    @KevinX- no he isn’t a McDevitt transfer he was there a freshman. Nice kid. He is a bit green, but I works a lot. I don’t believe he is going to be the starter. I am hearing the senior will start this year and he will get the reigns next year. I hope he gets a shot at it. Prep didn’t give up point to DeMatha. I don’t know what that means for Tep and Roman playing them this year.

  218. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin x, i looked up Imhoteps squad and they have 7 players at 300 lbs or greater and currently have 14 players with Division 1 offers. That is unreal .

  219. Scott G. Hagy says:

    For some highlights of the Wilson/Coatesville scrimmage check out Mike

  220. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Like you, I ended up doing a two a day yesterday as well. Jumped over to North Penn for the latter half of the NP/CD get together. Honestly, I was more interested in checking out the new rebuilt Crawford Stadium. Looking good to formerly christen the facility this Friday. Kudos to Central Dauphin. They must been up with the roosters for a two hour or so trip to Lansdale for a 9:30a scrimmage. Looked like tho it was North Penn that just got off the bus after an early morning wake up call and 2 hour journey.

    From there took a drive down Sumneytown Pike to Upper Dub. You sound like you weren’t overly impressed with the Wood pass game. I thought #10 looked pretty good for Wood at QB. I got curious and had to do some research afterwards, and he is a 6’5″ sophomore. Don’t know if he is one of the McDevitt transfers of not. Maybe a little green, but can’t see him not improving over the course of the season.

  221. Why go says:

    Why go to a scrimmage? Imotep won the state title already and may not give up a point all year and southern is the best southern team ever and if they give up any points they don’t matter because they didn’t try on that play. My season is set

  222. mcd 65 says:

    @ LOL, So is that all you have to offer ?? What scrimmage did you go to and what FACTS did you give us .Its easy to criticize others opinions ,but at least we try to offer input to something we like.

    @ Kevin, You were right for sure about Teps defense .They are the real deal.

  223. Lol says:

    You only saw a few series of a scrimmage and Imhotep can’t be beat this year, lol. Southern scrimmaged valley view and they threw an int. And didn’t try so it doesn’t really count, lol. You people are insane. What ever happened to just stating facts on things and not giving an outlandish opinion.

  224. mcd 65 says:

    Roman is the real deal this year. They looked good today vs CB West. Roman is athletic and has very good size . I liked the way they moved the ball both on the ground and through the air. Their dual threat QB makes plays . West has a nice squad and appears to be well coached .but imo Ithey were over matched.

    I saw several series between Wood and Imhotep. Wood has a solid defense with some very good talent. Their weakness appeared to be the passing game . Imhotep is huge and extremely athletic on both sides of the ball. That team can only lose if they beat themselves. I thought they looked like a college team.

  225. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Actually, fact is, Wilson showed better in the scrimmage against Coatesville. Had more yardage and looked better defensively overall.

  226. Scott G. Hagy says:

    Actually, Wilson had the upper hand against Coatesville. Definitely had more yardage and was better defensively.

  227. Helen Ann Long says:

    Just got back from the Southern/Valley View scrimmage and if you thought the Southern team with Julian Fleming was a once in a lifetime team, think again. Valley View’s offense did not score and the only points they got was from an interception that Southern did not even try to defend. Not saying Valley View is not a good football team but they were not up to the task today. Wishing them well the rest of the season. Berwick is in for a long night this Friday.

  228. EmanD3 says:

    Coatesville’s first team handled WWL, fairly easy, on both sides of the ball today.I know its only a scrimmage, but WWL OL was overmatched. Their OL was a concern this year with only one returning starter. Coatesville O has some weapons as well. Be curious to see how WWL holds up next Friday against CD in their home opener. CD is loaded as well.

  229. mcd 65 says:

    Kevin, Woods defense is really good also.

  230. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd 65:

    Shame Imhotep and Wood don’t meet up in the regular season. They played a couple of really good ones in the D12 “AAA” playoffs a few years ago. I actually (not a big scrimmage guy) took myself down to their scrimmage two years ago (Ok, only for the second half) and to me ‘Tep just dominated that second half. I don’t think Wood made one first down that second half. Yet who goes on the win the 5A State championship……

    May find myself once again down @ Upper Dub Saturday if things fall right. Like I said, not a big scrimmage person, but that match-up may be just too juicy to pass up.

    Question I’m asking myself, is anyone going to score on Imhotep this year?? Their D appears loaded. Tough early non league schedule, so they probably will give up a few points and at least be tested.

  231. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65 Yeah it shows and you’re not alone. Yeah that Prep game is part of four games I think going on that day. I thought the PA/NJ series would have been good to keep going to showcase the talents from the area at one time. So many scrimmages Saturday.. I like the schedule of schools this year. Everyone seems to be aggressive.

  232. mcd 65 says:

    Thanks for the info on the Prep and Lasalle. The LaSalle /McDevitt opener should be a good contest. I know McD is loaded and the Explorers have some real talent themselves. IMO Imhotep /PCC could be a huge game if Tep keeps the ball on the ground. They both have super levels of talent . Tep has as many if not more D-1 talent than St Joe this year. What ever happened to the North Jersey vs Phila . football series from a few years ago ?? There were a couple of good games and then poof !! gone.

    Is the Prep/St Mary Ryken game at Rutgers part of a series of games there that day ??

    Can you tell I am pumped up for the games this year LOL . Going to the CB West/Roman scrimmage Saturday then to the Tep/ Wood scrimmage if I can make it in time.

  233. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65 the only Prep game having a chance to be at Widener is the Father Judge game. LaSalle’s home games are at different sites. Vs Imotep & Roman is at Springfield Township HS, Haverford School & Wood at Wissahickon High School.

    So far so good with just 3 Friday’s away from the season kick off.

  234. FrankG says:

    @ mcd65 The Prep is finished at Widener. They’ve got two games at Franklin Field (LaSalle and Gonzaga), one at O’Hara (Milton from Georgia), and any other home PCL games will be played at O’Hara. The St. Mary Ryken game will be at Rutgers and the Delaware game will be away. I don’t know about LaSalle’s home games.

    Let’s hope all the games in SEPA can be played. I saw today that several early season games in CA have been cancelled.


  235. mcd 65 says:

    Does anyone know if st Joe Prep will still be utilizing Widener as their home fiel and wher LaSalle will play their home night games ?? Thanks

  236. EmanD3 says:

    @mcd 65

    I would think CD @ WWL should be a good game as well. WWL lost it’s QB(freshman DB at PSU) and most of their OL from their 6-1 squad LY…and CD’s QB is probably top 10 in 6A this year. Big game for both of them! WWL has a pretty tough non-league schedule to start the year.
    CD, Mifflin, Exeter(3 D1 guys), Manheim Central and MLK, near Philly. We will find out pretty quickly what they’re made of this year.

  237. mcd 65 says:

    Some good opening week games ,Wood /Neshaminy ,LaSalle McDeviit harrisburg, Imhotep/ Pittsburg Central Catholic ,CB West/ Coatsville ,ECP/Erie,Pine Richland/HarrisburgGarnet Valley/ Downingtown West ,Pennridge/Downingtown East ,Govenor Mifflin/William Penn just to name my favorites.

  238. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin x

    I have to assume schools are requiring all players and coaches to be vaccinated–the single best thing they can do to make a near-normal season possible.

  239. Kevin X says:

    Two weeks to opening kickoff. Are we all systems go?? Green flag waving?? Back to 100% normal for games, schedules, playoffs and fans?? Anybody have any rumors (or facts) of delays, changes or restrictions?? I guess selfishly, I’m more interested on restrictions on fans?? Schools going to require proof of vax to attend a game?? Cashless payments?? Parents/authorized personal/invited guest only?? Starting to see restrictions coming back in Philly (no surprise there), and local school districts/parents can’t seem to agree on mask policies for students. I suppose Philly/District 12, District 1 and the Inter-AC will be the first to screw things up again. Those games at Franklin Field might be the first affected, since being in the city and at an Ivy League school which hasn’t held athletic competitions since the dark ages.

  240. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65.. That was/is a sad story just when something special was brewing. I am hearing Coach Watkins will eventually take over at Wood. The sad thing he may build something special at Wood and it won’t be viewed the same. There is going to be a lot of great football played this season. This one just feels different. Unsure if it’s because of last year or just all the talent in the PCL and Pub.

  241. EmanD3 says:

    Scrimmage, Coatesville @ WWL, 8/21, 10AM…should be a pad popper

  242. mcd 65 says:

    McDevitt closed in June . They had 5 Division 1 players with offers returning this year . $ of them [Bridgeman,Sea.Pergine and Gardener] are now at Wood while Jamiel Lyons is at Roman. Three of them have current offers from Penn State among many others. What a crime that school closed . There were three others with D-1 potential also. This is a final post on this ,but damn !!!!!!! SO sad for coach Mike Watkins who was building a solid program. Watkins is now At Wood as Defensive co-ordinator the last I heard.

  243. mcd 65 says:

    Im with you on being jacked up for the season. It seems folks have lost interest on this site or maybe its that I expect more . Lots of talent coming from the PCL this year. Northeast and Imhotep from the Pub have solid teams with very challenging schedules . Im wondering if CB West can challenge North Penn and Pennridge for the title in District 1 or will Coatsville ,the Downingtowns or Garnet Valley be the one. It will be exciting to see if someone will overtake the Prep, maybe Wood or PCC. Lets get it going !!!!!

  244. The Joneses says:

    Anyone else excited July is coming to a close, camp starts and scrimmages are around the corner! Almost less than a month away before we get back to football the way we love it.

  245. Paul from Philly says:

    I love the idea of playing at Franklin Field. I just hope there’s enough attendance so it doesn’t look totally empty. For a couple of reasons. It’s a great stadium to watch the game and I hope they continue to schedule more games there. By the way, it is the oldest still active stadium in the country, built for Penn and the Army Navy game!!

  246. The Joneses says:

    @MCD65 I think Penn/Schools should look at playing more games there. Franklin Field can be for High School football, what the Palestra is for HS Basketball. I believe it’s Tep vs PCC. @Phillyboy, parking will be serious. That Setpa keycard could come in handy, just hop on the trolley. DeMatha is spending a lot of time in PA with a game against Roman as well.

  247. mcd 65 says:

    Looks like the Tep/ DeMatha game is on . Tep will play PCC the following week.

  248. mcd 65 says:

    phillyboy, good catch on the Northeast /St Joe matchup. It had me thinking it was the Prep for sure. They are stepping up big time vs St Peters Prep as you mentioned. BTW Imhotep is scheduled to play Pittsburg Central Catholic the same day as they were to play DeMatha, so not sure which is correct. The Western Pa. guys believe its PCC. That NE Super Site is a very nice venue . I saw McD play Marion Catholic there a few years back during the state playoffs.

  249. phillyboy says:

    Good point, Mcd 65, those two marquee matchups (SJ Prep/LaSalle and Wood/Malvern Prep) merit a venue like the iconic Franklin Field. Only problem though, dog gone it, can almost guarantee, between parking and ticket you’re looking at $20 a pop. Was scanning the other prime time early season matchups; feel compelled to grant some props to Northeast High. When they start scheduling ambitious competition left and right that’s a sign they’re trying to build a program. They’re hosting St. Peter’s Prep in September, that’s no joke, bloke — a juxtaposition that just might entice phillyboy to emerge from his North Philly rowhouse. Two weeks prior they open up at St. Joe’s. Yeah, not to be confused with the Saint Joe’s of Philadelphia, huh huh, nor the one from Montvale, NJ for that matter, rather the Hammonton, NJ variety, a strong program in their own right albeit at a lower classification. And then Imhotep is hosting DeMatha Catholic in early September at the Northwest Supersite. May have to re-up my Septa key card for that one, take the 23 bus to Germantown & Sedgwick by the Acme, and hoof it a few blocks north, baby!

  250. mcd 65 says:

    St joe Prep/ LaSalle and Wood/ Malvern Prep both games to be played on different dates ay Franklin Field . Great idea.

  251. ndgp82 says:

    How will Notre Dame Green Pond do this season?

  252. Coalrgnftballfan says:

    SCA participated in 7 on 7’s down in either D3 or D11 a couple weeks ago and more recently the PSU 7 on 7’s where they finished top 4 in 7 on 7’s (Garcia and Barnes did not participate) and 3rd in the linemen challenge. I’m not aware of what they are participating in locally.

  253. Helen Ann Long says:

    Any idea who might be participating in 7 on 7’s in D4 ?

  254. mcd 65 says:

    Archbishop Wood now has 3 Junior to be players that have offers from Penn State. Two of them being from McDevitt closing. I expect the Vikings to be a force for the next couple years. The PCL is loaded with quality players ,the most in years. St Joe, LaSalle,Wood Roman and Neuman Goretti have multiple D-1 athletes on their squads.

  255. 215Bol says:

    @Tweeter….If he is transferring from Jersey he will be eligible for playoffs

  256. Tweeter says:

    If heard just transferred, he probably will not be eligible for the playoffs this year.

  257. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X I know, I left out on purpose so they would find out on their own LOL!

  258. Kevin X says:

    Re: PIAA tix………just to clarify, I believe this on-line only tix proposal is strictly for PIAA state playoff events, not for districts or regular season competition. Not to say that districts, leagues, or individual schools wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon at some point. Also, I thought I saw there is a “print at home” option (maybe??) for the tix, so possibly not really a paperless system like I alluded too, but definitely an “on-line only” system with no walk up cash option for games. I would love to hear an official, direct explanation from the PIAA on simply why they are even thinking about this.

    @ Joneses

    Can’t wait to hear the SJP and private school haters reactions when they find out Heard is another Jersey kid 🙂

  259. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X.. That’s insane about tickets, but also a way the PIAA found to make more money on ticket sales.

    @Mcd65. Yeah I cannot wait for kick off either. Sports wasn’t as exciting last season. Yeah that Georgie school is pretty good.

  260. mcd 65 says:

    Kevin X, what the ______ is up with the ticket stuff?????? That is just so ridiculous !!!! The PIAA better wise up or they will contribute to the demise of High School sports in Pa. I cant believe they would go this route.

  261. mcd 65 says:

    @ Joneses, The Prep will again be the Prep, but should get good games vs Wood and LaSalle more so than the last few years imo. Roman should be much improved with several good McD transfers as well as some solid returnees. Wood has a non league schedule to include St Johns Washington DC, Malvern Prep ,Neshaminy and Neuman/ Goretti. Prep plays a 11-1 school from Georgia that may be an ESPN game. I think the PCL red will be very strong this year. If Wood can coach up their guys they may give the Prep a game. I cant wait for kick off.

  262. Kevin X says:

    From Twitter, via Bob Greenburg:

    “Bob Lombardi said he believes that online ticket sales for PIAA events will be the ONLY way to purchase tickets in the new school year. He doesn’t believe we will see any traditional walk up ticket sales other than online.”

    Lovely. Can’t wait…..

  263. The Joneses says:

    I just saw a kid James Heard 4 star DE transferred to SJP. Based on the film I saw this kid is going to be a huge difference maker for them on D that’s pretty stacked with Nelson, Trotter and rising soph Agard and James (both getting major D1 offers. I wonder if defense will be the star there with all the loss on offense. Looking forward to the PCL play this year as Wood and Roman have some McDevitt transfers and LaSalle has the most seasoned team.

  264. Kevin X says:

    Don’t know if any of you guys are following the PIAA spring championships in baseball, softball or lax, but all three are in full swing. I do hope tho you don’t decide to just show up at a game and expect to hand over $5 and enjoy said game. All games require on-line advance paperless ticketing. On top of that inconvenience, prices are now $8 a game plus a service charge. Add to that, start times for many games are in the morning or early afternoon, some really questionable geographical locations for game sites, creates for me a second year in a row of no spring sports.

    How does this pertain to football?? I think the rest of the state will be fine when the football season kicks off in late August, but I have some reservations on what kind of stunts (with sorry butt excuses) District 1 and 12 will pull to limit fans and raising more revenue. Hope I’m wrong.

  265. cornkid25 says:

    Tep has some talented kids Zahir Mathis might be best player in class 2025 6’6 230 WDE crazy how kids grow these days

  266. Buddy says:

    @mcd 65:

    I’m guessing here, but I assume the LaSalle/ North Penn contract is up. That’s rather obvious. I can see NP not playing both LS and SJP ( crushes ones morale) ,

    But they should keep LS. The old saying, better competition makes for a better team rings true here.

    @Kevin X:

    Yea, I seen that video. Was at the field a week ago. The NP school district, in my opinion, is over-paranoid on the COVID thing. If they don’t let everyone and anyone into the games this Fall,

    the NP fans might, and should, riot. This has gone on far enough!

  267. mcd 65 says:

    I read the recent college offers board and was amazed at the number of Division 1 offers to players at Imhotep and Neuman /Goretti. Both had about 10 including underclassmen. Now if they can get coached up accordingly they will be contenders. Ive seen this play out somewhat before without the success I thought they would have. We will see this year.

  268. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    I have no idea. I didn’t even realize that they weren’t playing until I read your post and took a peek at the schedules. Maybe just uncertainty with the upcoming season and stadium?? More likely, possibly, is that the SOL realigned (again) and have a 7 game league schedule, but also NP maybe had some agreements with other schools to do a home and home series that was disrupted last year?? Truman and UD aren’t schools that they normally play, but they did 2 years ago?? Maybe just not enough weeks available to meet up this year?? Maybe next door neighbor and rival Souderton was a better choice to open the new digs. Then again, like I referred to below, who knows what their (NP) attendance policy will be for the upcoming season.

    My curiosity is now that they have this nice new updated stadium with turf, would LaSalle and LC be considered to use it as their home field?? LaSalle have been nomads the past few years as far as a home field goes (they must of had 4 or 5 they considered a home field the last few years) since they left P-W. Maybe they’ll go back to P-W since P-W’s gym construction is done.

  269. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin X, That North Penn stadium is really nice. Any thoughts on why the annual NP/LaSalle game isnt scheduled this year ?

  270. Kevin X says:

    For basically Buddy………

    Question is, will they let the general public into any games this season. I actually got denied entry to a NP baseball game the other day until I politely (while very firmly biting my lip) talked my way onto the grounds. Absolute joke.

  271. David Mika says:

    Hi Buddy. You can click this link and view District 1 schedules.

  272. Buddy says:

    Any SOL schedules out yet? Specifically North Penn

  273. The Joneses says:

    @mcd65 Yeah the Wood team is going to be much improved. I am interested to see the QB play at Wood and SJP. I think that’s the biggest question mark. They both have some good skill players. I believe the PCL will be the most competitive it has been in quite sometime. If anything LaSalle are really going to be pushed for the number 2 spot this season.

  274. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin, I recently watched that game which I had taped. Its really great to have two guys from Pa. drafted so high. I thought Barmore also had a shot , but ended up Day 2 not bad for sure.

  275. mcd 65 says:

    How about Kyle Pitts going 4rth in the NFL draft. Great career at Florida. BTW Archbishop Wood should be a real factor this year in 6A . Of course they need to get by St, Joe Prep . At this point I give them a decent chance to beat the champs either this year or next. Wood has some very good players returning to include a bunch from the closure this year of McDevitt.

  276. Kevin X says:

    Who would have guessed that the 2017 5A PIAA Championship game would featured the No. 4 and No. 12 picks in the 2021 NFL draft. Kyle Pitts of Wood and Micah Parsons of Harrisburg. Wood won that game 37-10. Congrats to both and to other upcoming PA draft picks over the next two days!!!

  277. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Glad to see a couple new posts. Maybe we can get some informative, positive dialogue going again.

    Here are some updates & opinion on LL & Berks Teams – In 2022 the leagues combine.


    Mifflin – Good news is they have a top 5 RB in Nick Singleton as well as Ayden Martin and Eden Johnson all returning. The challenge will be replacing the entire OL and most of the DL. QB could be rising JR Delsin McNeil or possibly move Eden Johnson to QB. Either way their offense will be 90% run, but less Wing T and more I Formation and pitches. They will be the favorite to win D3 5A.

    Manheim Central – Had a down year last year as they were very undersized and struggled with a run game. They return the QB Judd Novak, who throws a great deep ball and WR Owen Sensening as well as rising JR RB Jaden Weit – He was hurt early in the year but he is really good! If they can assemble an OL they will be in the running for D3 5A with Mifflin.

    Warwick – Ouch! This year is going to hurt compared to the athletes they have had the last 3 years and specifically last year when they graduated – Nolan Rucci, Caleb Schmitz, Joey McRacken, Colten Miller & Thatcher Miller. I’m not as familiar with their program but I’m not aware of a strong pipeline coming up. Was really looking forward to D3 final with Warwick vs Mifflin last year. Don’t see them in the D3 hunt this year

    Cocalico – They have a top OL in Ryan Brubaker ( about 50 offers) and the Flinton brothers but I don’t see enough on the roster to compliment them. Should be a solid team but not in the hunt for a final appearance.

    Exeter – Returning stud LB’s Ty Yocum and JR Strauss as well as highly recruited WR/TE Joey Schlaffer. Not familiar with the rest of their roster.


    Manheim Township – Lost QB Evan Clark and RB/LB Cade Clancy. Returning PSU commit Anthony Ivey at WR and a couple other quick receivers. They will have a fast team but will need to improve the OL and decide on a QB. Not sure who the leading QB candidate is but the starting JV QB was rising JR Brock Kreider. Need to fill in holes on both lines and improve in both areas to run effectively and stop the run. Should be solid but not a D3 finalist.

    Wilson – Need to replace most of the OL, DL and QB. Have some strong but unproven upcoming Linemen. QB is a mystery at this point but it usually is at Wilson. Brad Hoffman transferred from BC but as a rising SR he should not be eligible for playoffs. Strengths are all of the LB’s, RB’s and most of the secondary and WR’s are returning. They have quite a tandem in the Jones brothers- Jadyn and Cameron. If they figure out the QB they will be in the hunt for D3 6A

    Hempfield – They lost RB Tanner Hess. Not as familiar with their program but I was impressed with their toughness and saw improvement under new HC George Eager. I think this is a program on the rise.

    Would be interested on updates for CD, Harrisburg, CV & Central York

  278. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. The Public is going to finish the 2020 season this weekend. Once done I will switch over and start putting in schedules. We should get a lot done quickly.

  279. Matt says:

    Hey Dave, when will you be uploading the 2021 schedules? Hopefully we will have a normal fall football season this fall!

  280. David Mika says:

    Click the Open Dates page….I have been since late 2020.

  281. Bryan says:

    Will you be listing teams looking for games in 2021 like you have in the past?

  282. mcd 65 says:

    @ Joneses, Thanks for the info. I was hoping that would happen. BTW I saw LaSalle is opening up at Harrisburg McD. This should be a good game. Maybe others will follow their lead and schedule cross district games as well.

  283. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd65 I just heard on Sunday Mike Watkins is going to coach at Wood. I also heard SJP received a boost in the coaching ranks with Aaron Beasley coming on as the DB coach after Coach Keita defected to LaSalle.

  284. mcd 65 says:

    Just a quick update on the McD transfers that I have heard of recently, Most have chosen Wood with at least 2 starters choosing Roman. This is very good news for Wood fans if it holds true. If anyone has information on where McD coach Mike Watkins is headed I would appreciate it if you would let us know, thanks

  285. mcd 65 says:

    bridgeman and Gardener two McD sophs ,both with multiple D-! offers [ Penn State Included} have been added to Woods roster for next year. Thats 4 good players so far that I know of.

  286. mcd 65 says:

    Reference to Wood next year, their returning roster is the weakest In the last 15 years imo. McD transfers can certainly help IF they decide on Wood particularly the 7 Sophs that started since their Freshman year. Two of those have offers from Texas A@M . Here is the issue as I am hearing it thus far. Several have decided on Roman and one on Wissahicken so Wood wont be getting them all for sure. Wood should hire McD coaches and that would be a smart move to possibly enhance their chances in both the short and long term in having athletes from MCD territory switch to Wood instead of Imhotep ,Northeast Abington ,Cheltenham etc.

  287. The Joneses says:

    @Paul and McD 65- it appears most of them went to Wood. Wood should be a little more exciting two watch this issue. The Red division is going to be interesting since SJP had all those seniors graduate.

  288. Paul from Philly says:

    @ McD 65

    A lot of talk about them moving to Wood. Not sure because of location and distance but you are right. They do have some talented pieces. It’s a shame about the closing!

  289. mcd 65 says:

    Has there been any information on where McDevitt underclassman football players will be transferring with their school closing at year end ?? they have at least 7 very solid players 4 of which own D-1 offers so far and 3 others at the next level.

  290. mcd 65 says:

    Congratulations to two former PCL players that were named to the All American college football teams this year, Kyle Pitts from Archbishop Wood and Christian Barmore ffom Neuman/Goretti. Barmore was huge in the National Championship game for Alabama and Pitts was a dominant receiver for Florida . Both are expected to be high draft choices this year.

  291. Phil says:

    @Kenin X
    I believe it was Governor Wolf who ‘recommended no fall sports till 2021’ that caused a delay in fall sports for a couple of weeks. The PIAA was looking for some guidance from Wolf or his administration and it never came. Sources say neither Wolf nor his staff ever returned phone calls from the PIAA and Dr. Lombardi. It left the PIAA out on a limb with no guidance as Wolf and his administration apparently refused to work with the PIAA on going forward with any of the fall sports. So, the PIAA Board decided to proceed with football and the other fall sports based on their own studies and information they were able to ascertain but everything was pushed back 2 weeks. Then some districts, school boards, and even leagues decided to either push things back even more or even cancel which personally I believe was a mistake.
    Anyhow, the PIAA and Dr. Lombardi should get a lot of credit for planning to go forward in support of fall sports and the kids and coaches in all sports that put in the work to have a season. Especially the seniors who were given a chance to play their last season. Most seniors will never play their sport again, but the PIAA gave them the opportunity to have at least a shortened senior year. And thankfully most teams avoided the Covid pitfalls or worked their way through it and didn’t panic. We had state championships and we are were rewarded with seeing some very good games in all sports, and some great teams. Those participating will have memories they would never have had if not for the wisdom of the PIAA. In spite of anyone’s politics, I believe the PIAA and Dr. Lombardi made the right decision. To this day, to my knowledge, there has been no large scale spread of the virus because football or any other fall sport was played at the high school level in PA or anywhere in the USA. Proof is the late October study the University of Wisconsin-Madison did plus the lack of any news concerning the spread of the virus from a sporting event in high school that we all know the news media would have jumped on. A few states are still having football playoffs and successfully I might add.
    One last note and sorry for such a long comment. Remember, sports actually as it turns out, was good for these teens. Areas where no sports were played saw an increase in incidents of depression, suicides, murders and other crime. There is no question that those who proceeded with fall sports really helped the pysche of these kids and probably actually saved a few lives.

  292. Jerry Springer says:

    Any news on the PIAA allowing football teams to play a spring season if they didn’t play during the fall? I could have sworn I heard that idea being tossed around? Not trying to start rumors just asking.

  293. mcd 65 says:

    @ Kevin X , OMG how the H did I miss Russo LOL. I knew Peoples was injured so I didnt see him on the tube as I mentioned. That Wood group was pretty impressive as the former Wood group with Bates and Cooper at PSU ,Thompson at Florida among others.

  294. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    Geez Louise, we have another fairly recent Wood grad playing at the D1 level right under are collective noses……Anthony Russo QB at Temple, who I just saw is transferring to Michigan State for his final year of eligibility.

  295. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd 65

    Believe you can add Nasir Peoples from Wood who is also currently down at Va Tech. He is/was tho out this season due to injury.

    Moving up the football hierarchy, Ryan Bates (OL/PSU) is on the Buffalo Bills roster. Don’t know if he’s seen much playing time.

    @ FrankG

    Yeah, the PIAA lucked out this year with their championship weekend. Only glitch (for the finals weekend) seemed to be the attendance restrictions. For the life of me, I still have no idea why they (PIAA) and other individual schools and districts pushed back the start date of the fall season two or more weeks. If anything, get things going even earlier when things were calm to beat the inevitable second wave of this thing. Oh this winter season is going to interesting, if it even happens at all. On the college front, bowls are going to be a joke (then again, the majority are already in a so-called normal season), and the cash cow that is this bowl championship thing, the NCAA is going to ram this thing through come hell or high water for that almighty dollar.

  296. mcd 65 says:

    I forgot Mark Webb from Wood playing for Georgia at corner back. He was also on the tube .

  297. mcd 65 says:

    @ hitman 66 ,Thanks for the MCD info. I turned on the Army/Navy game and found out that Archbishop Wood has a player on the offensive line on both teams . In addition Kyle Pitt a TE for Florida and an all american cadidiate this year and Raheem Blackshear RB for Va. Tech are also from Wood . Just an observation.

  298. FrankG says:

    @KevinX You’re absolutely right. Those colleges that decided to start in August and finish by Thanksgiving are looking very prescient. I’m looking at all the college games scheduled for this weekend that have been cancelled and thinking there’d be little chance of playing six games in Hershey.

  299. Kevin X says:

    I believe this weekend was the originally scheduled weekend for the football championships in Hershey. Can you imagine if they were not moved up to Thanksgiving weekend, and were still set for this weekend?? I guess the last game of the year would have been the 5A championship game tonight, with the two (or three, I forget the actual original schedule) championship games schedule for tomorrow would have almost been guaranteed to have been cancelled. Hard to imagine that scenario and fallout taking place.

  300. Hitman66 says:

    mcd 65

    Those teams made both the writers’ poll and Saylor lists. They weren’t at the very top, but we’re planning to separate things by class. Should get some non-PIAA special mention.

  301. mcd 65 says:

    @ hitman 66 ,How about the 86 and or 87 McDevitt PCL championship teams ?

  302. Paul from Philly says:

    @ The Wizard. You are the best. You’re like our very own Ted Silary!!!

  303. Hitman66 says:


    Yeah, Egan gets a special mention in 1966, because they were highly regarded by national wires (NSNS). Similarly, Pittsburgh Central Catholic topped the Saylor Ratings in 1964. Since neither school was in the PIAA yet, we list them in a special category at the end of each decade. Surprisingly, no other private schools appear to have topped the Saylors or national wires. I would have to think a few of the PCL teams would’ve been state #1’s through the years, and we will try to add a few if they merit it, after we finish the initial yearly list. PS: Roman (2-0) also gets special mention from us in 1897, since they appeared to be top notch, but played a very abbreviated schedule. Sort of the first-ever PCL mythical state champ claim in a way!


    Braddock was a mid-50’s dynasty. They’ll get special mention for their 0-9 1924 team (9-0 before all games forfeited due to ineligible player). Then definite mythical state claims for 1956 to 1959 from their 54 to 59 WPIAL title run, with 1955 and 1961 (unbeaten but didn’t win WPIAL) possible. Could have anywhere from 4-6 in our analysis.

    Easton is another heavyweight. They claim 6 for 1903, 17, 25, 39, 58, 68, and will also get a share in 1901 in our estimation. The 1902 team (4-2-3) got selected by Gridfax, but they’re shaky compared to 01 (5-1-1) and the GREAT, possibly “team of the decade” from 03 (6-0). Ironically, somehow Gridfax didn’t select either of those…..not even 1903! We think they did that to get unlikely Central PA squad Lebanon a title nod in 03.

    mcd 65

    Northeast made Top 10 for Saylor in 1914 and 1942, but nothing in the Herb Adderley Era.

    NW PA

    For next year in 5a, Erie Prep will be stronger…..and watch out for their “old” championship rival, Imhotep!

  304. mcd 65 says:

    @ Wizard , You are a true LaSalle historian, Thanks for the reply Wiz.

  305. Matt says:

    For those of you asking if Harrison left LaSalle for academic reasons sarcastically; The Prep is a notably better academic school than LaSalle. I would not find it surprising for any student to transfer from LaSalle to the Prep for better academic opportunities. With that being said, Harrison clearly transferred to The Prep because the program was stronger and gave him the opportunity to play with McCord at QB for 3 years.

  306. The Wizard Of Wyndmoor says:

    Herb Adderley was a junior when Northeast High School, heavily favored, with Angelo Coia also in the backfield, took on first-time entrant La Salle College High School in the Philadelphia City Title game on December 10,1955, almost 65 years ago. Adderley was nursing an injury, and played sparingly. La Salle defeated the Archives, 26-0, to win their first City Title. Both teams were undefeated and untied entering the game. La Salle finished the season with 8 straight shutouts.

  307. ll- berks guy says:

    I felt this game and individual performance were overlooked in the District 3 area.

    By all accounts this was the LL Section 1 Championship when Wilson played at Manheim Township. Wilson was missing a lot of starters after the Mifflin game and was considered a big underdog. Jadyn Jones a Jr RB had a phenomenal game with about 30 carries for over 200 yards with everyone knowing he was getting the ball. Seemed like he broke 50 tackles this game.

    HUDL link below.

    Unfortunately there were not a lot of competitive games in Berks & LL Leagues.

    Mifflin ran away in Berks 1 and Wyo in Berks 2.

    Warwick dominated LL Section 2 and LS the same in Section 3

    I will give my LL, Berks and District 3 previews for 2021 soon.

  308. mcd 65 says:

    Hitman66, Did Northeast with Herb Adderly ever make those lists ??

  309. Hitman66 says:


    You’re right on the money!

    Somehow, Philly Central never topped the Saylor Ratings that are listed at the PA FB History link…..but keep in mind that Dr Saylor didn’t consistently assign a rating to all teams until the 1910’s and 1920’s. And if you separate out the Prep Schools and Boarding School super-juggernauts like the all-time king Hill School, then the Central Lancers rise to the top pretty often! [PA FB History site has Hill School down for 8 state titles per Saylor, but trust me that number would at least be DOUBLED if you looked at other sources…..they (Hill) were just outright NASTY in the quarter century from 1889-1913.]

    Anyway, when a few of us were trying to decipher the early years of PA football, we didn’t know how to handle the public school vs Prep/Boarding School situation (and non-boundary schools, sound familiar? LOL). But the state of Ohio recognized that distinction as far back as 1895, and through the Gridfax Research, we found out that PA seemed to do this as far back as 1890!

    So we did decipher overall champs with non-boundaries, from 1886 onward…..but from 1890 onward we started piecing together “scholastic” champs just as Gridfax did from 1890-1921. In the earliest years, the Prep/Boarding Schools normally showed their clear advantage, but sometimes the scholastics could compete.

    Anyhow, back to Philadelphia Central. Gridfax lists them as PA’s first scholastic champ, giving them the first 3 titles (1890-1892). But after that, nothing. So at first some of us assumed that everyone else just caught up right away to this mammoth school in this huge city. But the more we dug, WOW! While I love the Saylor Ratings, sometimes they don’t tell the whole story. The Gridfax stuff is great, too, but they seem to have a Central PA bias when they narrow down some years’ multiple claimants to pick just one team. And there were also some discrepancies with some game results. When we examined the data and brought in some contemporary sources, we found that Philly maintained the “base of power” well past 1892, and probably at least until 1910!

    Btw, I was thinking about posting this info, and then I see you talking about Philly Pubs possibly being the best in the state until the 1950’s! (same wavelength!) I agree it was possible, but unfortunately we probably will never know since they weren’t in the PIAA and some of the ratings show them slipping a bit compared to some of the other areas. So…..1890’s vs 1950’s, I can give you a happy medium and bridge that gap until at least the 1910’s. After that, it seems like other areas caught up to the Philly schools, especially with the emergence of 2 other PA superpowers: Greensburg (a MONSTER in the quarter century from 1911-1935) and Harrisburg Tech (a MONSTER until they closed in the mid-1920’s).

    Philadelphia Central Mythical Claims:

    1891 [Gridfax gives the 0-2 Lancers this one, but we think Lancaster (7-0) was more deserving]
    1892 (shared)

    Gridfax never lists them as #1 again, but we list them in these years:

    1893 (shared)
    1897 (narrowly beaten 6-0 by superpower Hill School for the overall title!)
    1904 (shared)
    1905 (shared)
    1907 (Spalding tabs them the #1 scholastic team by far in the Middle States region! Both Gridfax and Saylor pick equally unbeaten Shamokin, so we give them a share.)
    1910 (shared)

    Note: We also recognize Northeast Manual Training with a share in 1909 (unbeaten), and Phila Central Manual Training with a share in 1910 when they tied previously unbeaten and unscored upon Phila Central for the City Championship.

  310. mcd 65 says:

    @ Frank G. Those Bishop Egan teams were a powerful group. They beat McD up pretty bad during my Sohp and Jr years lol. @ Foleman, fyi Cardinal Doughherty had over 6000 students when my brother attended and when he went out for Freshman football he was met with better than 250 others to try and make their 9th grade team !!!!!!

  311. phillyboy says:

    @ Hitman66 — For your trivia question regarding the first public PA dynasty between 1890 and 1910, I’ll go with Central (Philadelphia), the Lancers, baby. Remember reading an article in the Phila. Inquirer several years ago about Braddock (possibly McKeesport area) having a dynasty but I dont think their run was quite as ancient as you mentioned. Another shot in the dark pick would be Easton.

    Btw, took another look at the list of PA state champions list and Philadelphia actually was represented — by two Inter-Ac schools, Germantown Academy (that was before they relocated to the suburbs) and Penn Charter over in East Falls (Matt Ryan’s alma mater).

  312. FrankG says:

    @Hitman66 Until the 1990s almost all the schools in the PCL and the PPL were as much boundary schools as public schools across the state. (You may already know that.) Anyway, when people talk about impressive dynasties within the memories of at least some of us older guys, they should include Bishop Egan under Dick Bedesem in the 1960s. They stumbled in a couple of the city championship games they played in (while winning some others), but they were awfully good for several years, once ending what may have been Neshaminy’s longest winning streak. Larry Marshall, Billy Creeden, …

  313. NW PA says:

    Before everyone winds down for the year any thoughts on who will be good next year. I can only comment on this area but in 6A Mcdowell should be decent. They loose a strong senior class but have over half their starters coming back. Erie Cathedral has a strong junior and sophomore class and I heard the current freshmen team was even better. Not sure what to think about 4A maybe Meadville or Oil City? In 3A I know the Mercer county teams are always good, perhaps Sharon or Hickory. Wilmington will be good in 2A their JV team had low numbers but a bunch of talent.

  314. Hitman66 says:


    The Saylor Ratings that Foleman linked to are a very good starting point for the pre-1988 stuff. So is the Gridfax Research and some of the early Spalding Football Guides.

    You must be reading my mind, though, because I was going to ask this group a trivia Q about who we dug up as the first PA “scholastic” dynasty program (excluding non-boundary schools). Saylor didn’t always give them a rating, and they never topped the Saylor list at the PA FB History site (although prep schools might’ve blocked some of that). However, Gridfax gave them 3 consecutive state championships, and we actually think they deserve a whopping NINE “legit” mythical claims from way back in the earliest years (1890-1910).

    Any guesses as to who this program was/is? ,

  315. Foleman says:

    Phillyboy, back in the Heyday of Philadelphia football, the Catholic and Public Leagues didn’t need to schedule anyone outside of their leagues and there wasn’t many scheduled games between the City Catholic and Public leagues with Suburban Schools. I remember Radnor in the late 70’s was ranked #1 in the State, my HS team scrimmaged them, they came to our fields with 7 full busloads of players. Yet they got crushed by neighboring Archbishop Carroll. Cardinal O’Hara snapped CB West 55 game win streak in 1989. Frankford HS won a City Championship and came close several other times. Many of those City Powerhouses would have won State Championships. Cardinal Dougherty had 4000 kids in the school, North Catholic, Ryan and Father Judge had 3000 kids, that’s a lot of talent to draw from. I used to ride my bike from Juniata to Kensington to visit my Aunt, I can’t imagine doing something like that today.

  316. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    As far as the playoffs, my old high school opted out of most fall sports, including football, and is several hours away, and I really don’t follow their athletic programs that closely overall.

    On a more micro level, I really think D1 should have followed D11’s lead, and done their own thing or in conjunction with them, at least with the smaller schools. 6A in D1 alone this year I think was as wide open as far as a favorite to win the D1 title as ever. They could have staged a somewhat “normal” year and undertook their own per usual 16 team playoff. Whoever would have won that D1 title would have still have had about a zero chance of beating SJP and moving on to Hershey. Congrats to Soudy (and I am a fan and follower of their baseball and GBB teams in recent years), but a 5 game regular season, a 2 game playoff, exactly half the number of games in any other season, with the likes of Neshaminy, Abington, North Penn, Garnet Valley and both Downingtowns not involved for one reason or other, yes, that left a very hollow aspect to November.

    Oh well, hope back to full normalcy next season.

  317. phillyboy says:

    Props to the person who gave the PA state champions list from 1887 onward, very interesting, didn’t know there was any kind of list prior to 1988. Of course it’s very debatable but it’s better than nothing. Conspicuous by its absence (before 1988) are any Philadelphia schools (within city limits). There used to be a city championship every year between the PCL and PL champs, similar to the current D12 championship. They scrapped it in the late 70’s because of a lawsuit about the girls’ teams not having similar tournaments — something like that. Anyway, got to believe at least some of those old city champs might have been the best in the entire state. I think the Public League teams were better quality back in the day, occasionally winning the city championship, especially before the migration to the suburbs. Around 1955 Philadelphia reached its peak population of 2.2 million, currently 1.5 mil. It’s ironic, although there’s been a lot of progress in civic rights and fairness, in some respects things were more functional several decades ago. Generally speaking seems that more bread and butter working and middle class whites attended the big city publics. Sometimes I’ll read in the obituaries about a local white celebrity or VIP who went to Germantown or Overbrook or wherever and think to myself, ‘Dag, that probably wouldn’t happen today’.

    Yup, going to 6 classes watered it down, should have kept it at 4. And they should not have separate playoffs for public and private. As already mentioned there are only a couple, few culprits. Always thought Ohio’s high school football tournament is the cleanest, most organized template. The state, ever so roughly, is squarish, they have 4 regions (NE, NW, SE, SW), their highest classification is Division 1 (numerically makes more sense), and they combine public and private. Even in Division 1 publics nab the title now and then.

  318. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Yeah, depends on the calendar. Even if Thanksgiving is earlier, can start the season as we do now, weekend before Labor Day weekend, have a 10 game regular season, and a 4 week/16 team playoffs ending on Thanksgiving Friday and Saturday. End the season with three straight days of games, traditional Thanksgiving Day games, Championship games on Black Friday and Saturday.

    I’ve been personally pushing for a 32 team/5 week playoff scenario. Even with that you can get away with a 10 game regular season with the same start date, and half the time have the finals Thanksgiving weekend, the other half the weekend after, which would still be in late November/very early December.

  319. Hitman66 says:

    Foleman, your state champions list is a bit deceiving. Steel-High has 3 on the field championships, but would probably have more than 7 total if you’re throwing in the mythicals. I’m assuming you’re just going with the Saylor picks for those. The school claims even more, and a group of us are working on a project that would sort these and other claims out and give them some others. The 1906 Saylor pick and 1924-1925 ones that they claim are very disputable (they have losses and other teams have better claims). For example, the ’06 Saylor champ (Steelton) was soundly beaten 22-6 by the ’06 Gridfax champ (Johnstown) who was beaten 13-5 by undefeated Pittsburgh Central. But we have stronger claims for Steelton in ’26, ’34, ’48, ’55, and Steel-High in ’78, ’82 and possibly more. We’re also trying to separate things by class. This has been a grueling, ongoing project, but we’re getting there!

    PS: PR also has a few other potential claims when they were Richland, and TJ was both the writers poll AND Saylor champ for 3A in the 1st year of 4 classes (1980).

  320. Jeff H. says:

    I was at the SJP vs PCC semi-final game last year, and PCC would have won that game if not for a phenomenal catch by Harrison on 4th and 10 in the last minute of the fourth quarter that put the game into OT. If PCC wins that game are we having the same argument on this board about SJP’s dominance? Of course the only reason PCC had a chance in that game was due to the absence of McCord and several other starters. There is no question the quality of play is down statewide over the last several years, and SJP had an unbelievable senior class that exacerbates the problem. Despite graduating all that talent they will still be a big favorite to win 6A again next year, just like Southern Columbia was the favorite to win 2A again this year.

    @ Jac Mac – I do agree that perhaps SJP has outgrown the PIAA by wanting to play a national schedule and maybe the time has come for them to opt out of the PIAA for football, and I absolutely agree the solution is not to have separate championships for publics and privates, we’re only talking about a few privates like SJP and Erie Prep and in prior years Wood, there are not enough high profile private schools in the state to have a meaningful championship. The WPIAL does not have a problem with PCC playing in their championships and neither do any of the other big time programs in the district, it’s not like PCC wins the WPIAL title year after year, although they do win more often with 6 classes than they did with 4 classes, especially with PR now in 5A.

    The PIAA will never admit it but they made a mistake when they went to 6 classes in 2016, I and a lot of others have been saying that for the last 5 years, I could see adding 1 class since they hadn’t expanded since 1980, but going to 6 classes has watered down the competition and resulted in a lot of blowouts in the state finals, to say nothing of destroying natural rivalries in the WPIAL.

  321. Jeff H. says:

    @LL Berks Guy – what I meant by schools like Southern Columbia and TJ reloading and not rebuilding is their coaching staffs have been together for decades and they have a competitive team year in and year out, it doesn’t matter if they graduate 18 starters from a state title team like TJ did last year or graduate 5 DI players like Southern did, you know every year they are going to be very competitive because of the continuity of the coaching staff and the programs they have built from grade school on up.

    TJ has made the WPIAL semi-finals or finals 21 out of the last 22 years, and Southern Columbia has played for the state title an amazing 19 times, thanks in large part to tremendous coaching staffs who built a culture of winning and know how to maintain it. With a culture of winning kids bide their time until it’s their turn to play, like TJ’s QB this year, he sat behind starter Shane Stump for the last 2 years and finally got a chance to start as a senior. Kids in the TJ district grow up wanting to play for Bill Cherpak and a program that consistently wins year after year and not move or transfer to another school where they might get more playing time, I’m sure the same thing is true in Southern Columbia wanting to play for Jim Roth and carry on the winning tradition.

  322. FrankG says:

    Here are the scores from CB West’s 1998 playoff games:

    37 Abington Heights 10
    34 Parkland 7
    56 New Castle 7

  323. Jac Mac says:

    I would be curious to see scores from the late 1990s of CB West, I would have to believe they destroyed programs in the same manner. In 1998 I believe the same thing happened in the semi and final… you hear people complaining about Southern Columbia. George Curry dealt with it while at Berwick, same with CB West in the 1990s. People don’t like success more than private schools.

  324. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Sausmann9

    “PIAA screwed up big time when they allowed them to compete passed the start of the playoffs.” Your quote!! Finally you understand. It’s not St. Joe or La Salle or any other private school. It’s the PIAA. Finally it sunk into your head!! Baby steps Sausmann, baby steps!!

  325. The Joneses says:

    @LL Berks Guy.. Please elaborate on your statement, “95 other 6A schools that work just as hard but will rarely have the chance to compete for a PIAA title because the rules are stacked against them”. How are these rules stacked against them? Did they rules somehow change when the PCL came to the PIAA, did the public fight the changes? Malvern Prep did not OPT out the PIAA. They have been trying to get the other Inter-AC schools to go PIAA, but they cannot get enough to move the league and do not want to go independent. Westtown can never join the PIAA because they typically have students who are either post grads or played more the 4 yrs of HS Basketball.

    I just need to know if the PCL has such an advantage over
    @Jac-Mac well said. I think the only thing keeping SJP from going national is financial.

    Other schools may not be able to duplicate the talent they get, but they can duplicate coaching, preparation etc. If you are a sports enthusiast as I am, you have seen well coached, well prepared teams beat more talented team. It happens at every level. It’s easy to use the talent excuse and not look in the mirror. People wanted SJP to get shut down due to Covid, hoped the city taking away access would boot them out of the playoffs. I thought that was sad to want kids to loose the opportunity to play at all. How can anyone argue about schools not getting a chance to play for or win a state championship, hope for kids to not be able to play at all!. No one got their wish.. Now we will all sit back and wait as the hope down their downfall after this class goes on to college.

  326. FrankG says:

    Sorry to see D3 Mike leave.

    The idea that SJP has been destroying PIAA programs since 2013 is simply not correct. In 2013 they won close games against LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy. They were the definite underdog against PCC, with the final score being misleading about the competitiveness of the game. In 2014 they won very close games against Parkland and P-R. In 2015 they lost LaSalle in the PCL playoffs. In 2016 they won a very close game against North Penn. The PIAA championship game was 7-0 just before the half, In 2017 they won a close game against Coatesville and lost in the final to P-R. In 2018 they won a close game against LaSalle in the PCL championship. Just about everyone expected Coatesville to be very competitive, but Coatesville had a big hiccup against Harrisburg. I wouldn’t say SJP destroyed Harrisburg in the championship. In 2019 the game against Northeast was close through about three quarters and of course they barely beat PCC. This year was weird start to finish.

    Two things are true. First, the Prep has had very good, sometimes great, teams for eight years. Next year they will be less experienced than any of their teams in that time. They will also be less talented than most if not all of the teams since 2013. Second, the very wider margins by which they’ve won most, but not all, of their playoff games in the last few years are a reflection not only of the quality of their teams but of opposition that is not as strong as it was in 2017 and earlier. Were the three teams that CBW beat in championship games in the late 90s not better than the last three teams SJP has beaten in the finals?

    None of this is to take away from the efforts of the kids or the coaches at the teams the Prep has beaten. Someone below said the kids from boundary schools work just as hard as kids from the Prep. I have no reason to think otherwise

  327. FrankG says:

    @KevinX I like the idea about Thanksgiving Weekend. Would it be much harder when Thanksgiving is earlier, i.e. the 22nd or 23rd? Not being a fan of games in August, I wouldn’t want to see anything that could lead to even earlier starts to the season.

    As for this year, I’m sure much depends on perspective. If your school got knocked out by COVID, the playoffs must have seemed kind of hollow.

  328. D3 Mike says:

    Frank, it’s only misleading if you allow it to be misleading. SJP destroys teams like no program has before it, so your original point that they were “just like other dominant programs before them” is simply factually incorrect. The numbers are right there.

    And there are no mistakes. It’s a list of 7-point PIAA games and losses. PCC was a PIAA team last year. That’s why they are listed.

    And for every “but they only scored at the end vs North Penn for SJP to make it 2 scores” there are 3 of those games for every other team on the list, each season. Trust me. I’m the person here who just looked at all 25 season results. SJP destroys 6A competition like no program has before them.

    It’s also irrelevant whether it’s because of a decline of public schools or SJP’s dominance. The point is that the 6A playoffs are currently a farce, specially because of SJP. Full stop.

    They should opt out of the PIAA playoffs. The PCL should try to coordinate a year-end tournament with similar all-star teams in North Jersey / Washington / Baltimore.

    And with that, I’m done in this forum. It’s pretty much grown men living vicariously thru their alma mater / local team / teenage boys with zero regard for what’s best for young student athletes in the state of Pennsylvania.

  329. Foleman says:

    The six state champions in 2020 have combined to win 32 titles all-time:

    6A: @SJPrep_Football (6)
    5A: @PRRamsFootball (2)
    4A: @TJHSJaguars (5)
    3A: @cvqbclub (1)
    2A: @SoCoTigerSports (11)
    1A: @RollersFootball (7)

    See all PA champs from 1885-2020 here:

  330. Kevin X says:

    Anybody in favor of having the PIAA move the football championships to Thanksgiving weekend like this year on a more permanent basis?? How about also a streamlined 16 team four week playoff like this year as well??

    I still do not think there should have been a state tournament this year, I know I am probably in the minority with that view, especially since they made it thru this past weekend without any known hiccups (other than maybe the attendance issue), even though there were more than enough earlier on in the playoffs. With that said, I could probably get behind of how they staged the tournament this year, with some more thought and maybe with a few tweaks as needed, which is probably another minority view point.

  331. FrankG says:

    @D3 Mike Such a list can be a bit misleading, and there might be an error or two in it. What PA public school did the Prep beat by 7 points or less in 2019? (PCC is not a public school.) True that SJP beat the three public schools it played in 2016 by more than seven points, but the TD that put them ten ahead of NP in 2016 came in the last minute. North Penn was driving for the go-ahead TD with a couple of minutes left when they fumbled at about the SJP 25. In 2017 you might have noted that P-R beat SJP by 21 points and that SJP had a very close victory over Coatesville. As for the last three years, does anyone on here actually think that the public schools SJP beat to win the state championship and nearly all the public schools they played in earlier rounds of the playoffs were anywhere close to Parkland in 2015, P-R in 2014, PCC in 2019, 2016, or 2013, North Penn between ’04 and ’12, etc–teams that did not win state championships in 4A till 2017 or 6A since?

    The point: the degree of the Prep’s dominance in recent years is due not only to the quality of its program but to the declining quality of football (at least in their classification) across the state. Now if someone wants to argue that teams from big schools in central and western PA or in the Lehigh Valley are down because SJP is as good as it is, please go ahead.

  332. Frank Gavin says:

    @LL-BERKS Guy I know what a conscience is, but you didn’t say a specific thing about why my conscience should be marked by guilt. What is the Prep doing that is morally wrong?

    I’ve never denied that not having boundaries is an advantage–and a substantial one. Every single PCL school is without boundaries and all PPL schools have no boundaries other than those of the city of Philadelphia. I don’t know if all public schools throughout the state have very strict boundaries. Pittsburgh? Erie? The Lehigh Valley? Maybe they do. Are they always adhered to? If the PIAA wants to make a separate class for schools without boundaries, fine. But it needs to be recognized that when District 12 entered the PIAA, none of the schools pretended to have boundaries and certainly the Prep never denied that about 20% of its students come from Jersey–as they have for many decades.

    The Prep also has some disadvantages. The most obvious is that the field they usually use for practice is a bus ride away and they have no home field of their own for games. For all of this year they have had to practice outside the city–which would make the practice site at least six miles from the school, maybe a good bit further. And while it is true that Prep students and players come from all parts of the Philly area, that also means that nearly all have a significant commute in the morning and at the end of the day. What that means in practice for football players is that their days start really early, that after taking a bus to and from practice they then they have long commutes home–probably going through the territories of 5-15 high schools on their route–and that they’ve got academic requirements that every year some students, including some very promising football players, find too demanding–causing them to transfer elsewhere. I am NOT saying every Prep student needs to be an academic high-flyer, but I am saying their academic standards impose a real limitation–you might call it a disadvantage Then there is money. The majority of Prep football families pay a substantial amount of tuition and other fees. It is a large relative advantage for public schools that NONE of their students/players ever has to pay a penny for tuition, books, transportation, etc.

  333. James l. says:

    piaa says u can only transfer to another school for academic reasons so i guess harrison left la salle for a better the prep.

  334. James l. says:


  335. James L. says:

    when do the showcases start up for PREP where they charge 50 dollars a player to evaluate ?

  336. Jac-Mac says:

    @Sausmann let’s clear up a few things

    1. Marietta is in Cobb County
    2. Prep would lose games in the metro Atlanta area every single year to public schools in Cobb, Fulton and Gwinnett County. They care a lot more about football in Georgia than Pennsylvania and Public schools are much more invested than even the prep in football.
    3. What has prep done wrong? They should only take kids from the area in which the school is located? Your argument should be with the PIAA not Prep or PCL. They courted the PCL. Prep isn’t cheating, they are exercising a very unfair advantage but that’s not a prep problem, it’s a PIAA problem.

    I am a transplant to the Lehigh Valley from South Carolina. I believe you are from the Lehigh Valley as well. Where was your outrage when Freedom used an ineligible player this year? My understanding is the address that was used has been used for 14 years for some of the best players in that time frame. If it is so easy why doesn’t every private school dominate? I mean why don’t they all go steal the best players from every public school in that particular area. The simple fact is that success recruits itself. While having no boundaries is an advantage, impossible to dispute that fact, should they turn away students because it is unfair? If you give me a choice of sending my kid to Prep or the local public school I’m sending him to prep every single time for the same reason kids choose Harvard Yale and Princeton. The greater potential for opportunities to improve quality of life. If you don’t think that a private school in Philly, Lehigh Valley, Harrisburg, or Pittsburgh hasn’t saved a kids life by going to one over an inner city school you are lying to yourself, that in itself is worth it.

    Your beef is with the PIAA not a school… I know it’s hard for people on here to be able see different sides of an argument. And while I agree wholeheartedly that not having boundaries is an unfair advantage I personally do not think separating the playoffs is the answer. Look at Maryland some of the worst public school football around. Because the gloves will come off and recruiting will be accepted. My personal opinion is that Prep should move on from the PIAA. Play a national schedule, I don’t see what they are gaining anymore, especially since the Catholic league as a whole is really bad. So go ahead blast away for having a dissenting opinion.

  337. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Question about small school dominance-

    Saw a comment below about schools “reloading not rebuilding”

    Exactly how does a small boundary school “reload”?

    If your school is “reloading” does that mean other schools are “unloading”?

    Asking for a friend.


  338. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Frank G if you need someone to tell you why you should have a guilty conscience then you can’t be helped. Your conscience is your inner sense of what is right or wrong. No one here can change the PIAA rules but you can acknowledge the advantages of non boundary schools in large populous areas.

    This is not about St Joe’s, its about the kids at the 95 other 6A schools that work just as hard but will rarely have the chance to compete for a PIAA title because the rules are stacked against them. This year CY had 5 or so D1 players and had no chance of winning. A boundary school having 5 D1 players does not happen very often. And in the current environment its still not enough to win.

    If non boundary schools want to compete on a national level then opt out of the PIAA like Malvern Prep and Westtown. Westtown would have won the basketball title the last 5 years. These schools understand the competitive advantage they are afforded and choose not to exploit them.

  339. Foleman says:

    Love them or hate them, The Prep looks like a college team, is coached like a Power 5 College team and plays like a college team and you can’t argue where they send their players to college. That team was easily in the top 3 Large School teams I have ever seen, the other 2 being CB West and Erie Cathedral Prep. Prep’s team speed was amazing! It will be interesting to see if a totally rebuilt Prep team can win the State Championship next year. 6 teams in the State Championship is 1 or 2 too many in my opinion, too many blowouts in the Championship games over the years proves it. Central York was a nice story but they were probably the 4th best team overall in D3 behind Hburg, Mifflin and Warwick. Why can’t the other Pubs step up like S. Columbia-the equal to Prep in 2A, add in Pine Richland too. Overall, the quality of Public school football is way down, I thought that TJ and Jersey Shore were the 2 weakest teams in the 4A final that I can remember.

  340. D3 Mike says:

    SJP has played in 7 of past 8 state championships at 4A/6A, won 6 titles, won 5 of those 6 tilts by 20+ points, and they’ve lost one game to PA publics over that time span.

    Here are the last 25, 4A/6A state title winners with the number of games vs PIAA programs that they won by 7-or-fewer-points (or lost):

    1996 Downingtown: 1
    1997 CB West: 1
    1998 CB West: 2
    1999 CB West: 1
    2000 Cathedral: 2
    2001 Neshaminy: 6
    2002 Parkland: 3
    2003 N Penn: 0
    2004 PCC: 2
    2005 McKeesport: 3
    2006 Upper SC: 1
    2007 PCC: 1
    2008 Liberty: 6
    2009 La Salle: 4
    2010 North All: 2
    2011 C Dauphin: 7
    2012 North All: 1
    2013 SJP: 2
    2014 SJP: 2
    2015 PCC: 4
    2016 SJP: 0
    2017 P-R: 0
    2018 SJP: 0
    2019 SJP: 1
    2020 SJP: 0

    The above numbers are incontrovertible. The current 6A system is non-competitive, especially for traditional public programs, like never before. And the issue predates this year’s SJP senior class.

  341. GaryZ says:

    Congrats to all teams. Hey #westsidebestside, D7 (WPIAL) bringing home 3 trophies. D7 (WPIAL) always represent at state.

  342. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 You obviously have a zip code obsession.

    My questions for you: what does the Prep do that should give me a guilty conscience and what do you want the Prep to do–turn down the Trotters when they show an interest in coming to the school? Tell Cooper to go to Overbrook instead? Tell Talley, Yagodich, and Hagens that instead of coming to the Prep and going on, respectively to Penn, Harvard, and Duke that they should feel an obligation to go the high school in their own zipcode?

    The Prep didn’t make it out of the PCL in Swift’s junior year. In his senior year, the very nearly lost to North Penn–a fact.

    Take your case to the PIAA.

  343. sausmann9 says:

    @Frank G = PLEASE give it a rest already! Your guilty conscience for da Prep and knowing what they do to win compared to the rest of the teams in PIAA is making you look just absolutely ridiculous on here!!! da Prep could replace their jersey numbers w/ zip codes of their players and not having a repeating zip code on the entire offense. I know, I know you can’t say that about da Prep’s defense b/c both Trotter bros come from the same zip code even though its nowhere near 17th and Girad.

    People like you have been saying the same nonsense for seasons about them. D Swifts junior and senior seasons, “oh the prep won’t see a team or talent like in a generation” blah blah blah

    PIAA screwed up big time when they allowed them to compete passed the start of the playoffs. Its a shame they do because it really takes away from the quality of the game we go to see. We don’t want to see a recruited up all-star team w/ 17 D1 recruits act like they climbed a mountain and actually achieved something by beating up on some legit public school.

    And call it or me what you want; facts are just what is stated above. We don’t really need your excuses or twisted logic why prep should be playing teams like Parkland, Coatesville and P-R.. And you can forget about your Marietta crap, that was an anomoly for that team w/ a new coach and a recruited up Gwinnet Co all star team. I have ties to that town so don’t make it sound like they were a normal public school teamt that season.

  344. FrankG says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe

    The Prep team this year had an extraordinary collection of senior talent. I know some people think they have an assembly line of recruits, but everyone connected with the Prep program knows the teams in the next couple of years won’t have nearly the talent.

    The reality is that most years since ’13 there have been other teams, mostly public schools, that could certainly compete with the Prep and sometimes beat them:

    2013: The Prep narrowly beat LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy
    2014: The Prep narrowly beat Parkland–some say they were greatly helped by a blown call by the refs–and narrowly beat P-R.
    2015: The Prep lost in the PCL final to LaSalle
    2016: The Prep won a close PCL championship against LaSalle and narrowly beat North Penn
    2017: The Prep narrowly beat Coatesville and lost to P-R in the championship
    2018: The Prep narrowly beat LaSalle for the PCL championship
    2019: The Prep lost an early season game against Marietta (GA), won a fairly close game against Northeast for the D12 championship and very narrowly beat PCC in the state semi-final.

    Memory can be deceiving, but I think many of the really strong large-school public school programs of the last 25 years (CB West in the late ’90’s, Freedom in the first decade of this century, Northern Allegheny about 10 years ago, North Penn in the first few years of this century (especially the 2003 team) and their teams that had such good battles against LaSalle from ’09 to, I think, ’12 were on another level altogether from the last three teams the Prep beat in the state finals.

    Does everyone think the quality of football statewide, especially in 6A, is as good as it was in the old 4A from the time state playoffs began till the last few years? If not, to what extent is that because SJP has been very good?

  345. Dennis Pascoe says:

    SJP is on another level all together. How is a public school suppose to compete with them? Note: They can’t! SAD

  346. mcd 65 says:

    So Columbia is a fun team to watch and so very good . Garcia is a super RB . Congratulations Tigers !!

  347. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Like last year PIAA your team trophies are alittle on the cheap side. I guess with the loss of revenue I believe the Hershey bar looks smaller also. You people are a joke

  348. Matt says:

    @Jeff, I guess when you have that team last year….some were surprised but the success of that program is bigger than any player. Four years ago when they lost to Steel Valley with last year’s seniors as freshman….even Roth said he was surprised they got to title game after losing those good players from 2015 state title team. Of course this year’s team isn’t last year’s team. Last year’s Southern team was best they had…….5 D1 players….. incredible for any HS team. Next year Southern will once again probably win the state title with Garcia returning, his younger brother as a sophomore, the QB returning and a bunch of others. I kind of feel bad for Wilmington…..they lost three times to Southern and might lose to then again next year as they are a very good AA team. Just can’t get past SC… all other teams. It’s like they know it will end in a lose to SC. They played really well for three qtrs today and still lost by 28. Roth will probably coach atleast five more I would assume. That will put him well over 500 wins. He’s in his 60s, right?

  349. Jeff H says:

    Congratulations to coach Roth for becoming the all time winningest coach in PA, well deserved. The game went like I expected, Wilmington hung in for a while but Southern Columbia wore them down in the second half, I know Garcia is a tremendous wrestler like his older brother, but he’s also a great running back and I’m convinced he can play running back for a power 5 school, if I’m Pitt or Penn State I’m recruiting him for football. Will be interesting to see if Southern can keep the dynasty going when Roth eventually retires, which probably won’t be for several more years, I assume one of his longtime assistants will end up replacing him.

    @Tom M – surprised to hear you say you’re surprised they are doing as well as they are this year, I certainly wouldn’t say they were basically starting over. When you have a team that was as dominant as they were for the last 3 years that mercy ruled everyone your backups get a lot of playing time in the second half, which builds for the following year and keeps things rolling. I can tell you the rest of the state, or at least those of us here in Western Pa knew they were still the team to beat this year and were the favorite to win the state title again.

    TJ is a similar program to So Columbian albeit with not as many state titles or championship appearances, same coaching staff for decades, and they reload every year and never rebuild, like SC their team this year is not nearly as good as last year, but I’ll be very surprised if they don’t win this afternoon by 2-3 scores.

  350. MATT says:

    Just watched the SC – Wilmington game….. Wilmington hung tough for the first three qtrs and ran the ball well but SC and Garcia were too much. Gavin Garcia is incredible! Amazing that there’s another Garcia that’s a freshman and started at LB. SC is a junior heavy team so they should make it five in a row next year. Roth breaks Curry’s record also. What an incredible program. This is from a d11 fan who has no ties to SC. Just enjoy watching that program year in and year out.

  351. Tom M says:

    @Jeff H – SCA went all the way to South Carolina last year to play what was supposed to be an equal caliber team. They also set up the game against Wyoming Area that they had to fight the Heartland Conference to play and give up the Heartland title. They mercy ruled both teams.
    The Conference helps them fill a schedule, but it is also restrictive in who it lets them play. Of course, that team of 2019 was better than any other and in a class of their own. This year’s team is basically starting over. We’re actually surprised they’re doing as well as they are. This year’s team is certainly not last year’s team, but it certainly says something that Roth can rebuild a team in a year with a much smaller pool of potential players. I’m not sure some of your large school coaches would be as successful with the same restrictions.

  352. Jeff H says:

    2 very good and entertaining games to start the weekend, hope I’m wrong but I have a feeling the rest of the games won’t be as good as those 2. Happy for the central valley kids after the big disappointment last year, very impressive second half after trailing for the first time all year. They also showed a 3a school can overcome missing one of their best players a lot better than a 1a school like Jeanette, but hats off to Steel High, their defense was the difference in the game when I thought Jeannette’s D was going to be why they won. I have a feeling both of those schools will be back in Hershey soon and may be a rematch next year, Jeannette will definitely be the team to beat in the WPIAL.

  353. JJ says:

    You’re 0-1 so far and Wyomissing up at the half.

  354. GaryZ says:

    Today’s picks:
    J-Nette vs Steel-High. 27-14 J-Nette.

    C.Valley vs Wyo. 35-14 C.V.

    P-R vs ECP. P-R 42-14.

  355. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – not to beat a dead horse, and I’m certainly no defender of ECP, but the main reason they had those byes is because all the other 4A schools in D10, like Grove City, Conneaut, Oil City, etc. were playing up in 5A to deliberately avoid ECP, even though none of them had any chance in 5A in the state playoffs. It was mostly done as a protest against ECP for playing in 4A and not up to 5A where they should have played, I think there was only 1 other school that played 4A in D10 in 2016-2019 because all the other schools played up, so that’s the reason ECP had those byes, not because of any conspiracy by the PIAA, if you recall when there were only 4 classes that never occurred.

  356. Jeff H. says:

    @ LL Berks Guy – as I stated in my prior post I completely agree with everything you said about the PR vs. GM game, particularly the comments about how they used Singleton. Ironically the same exact thing occurred in the Gateway vs. Peters Township game in the WPIAL semi-finals I attended 3 weeks ago. Gateway had a 19-0 lead at halftime and should have lead by more, then they got away from their running game and didn’t get the ball to Derrick Davis in space in the second half and I think only threw the ball to him once for about a 35 yard completion on a drive that ended with a missed 32 yard field goal that would have put them up by 9 with 3 minutes to go in the game. Unlike Singleton his future is on defense as one of the top safeties in the country, but he’s a major threat on offense at running back, and they either used him as a decoy against Peters in the 2nd half or kept him in to block on obvious passing downs, what a waste of the highest ranked recruit in the WPIAL in the class of 2021, that was another game where coaching had a huge impact on the final outcome.

  357. Jeff H. says:

    I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving despite these crazy times. Now for some thoughts and comments on the games tomorrow.

    1A – Jeannette vs. Steelton Highspire – 2 historical programs who I believe have the most combined wins in history of any opponents who have played for a state championship, Jeannette is the winningest school in WPIAL history, I’m not sure where Steelton ranks in all-time wins in D3 but they have to be pretty high on the list. Both schools are loaded with talent, unfortunately Jeannette’s freshman phenom QB Brad Birch will miss his 2nd straight game with an ankle injury, so the rest of the state won’t get to see how good he is, but I have a feeling Jeannette will be back in Hershey sometime during his next 3 years. I think this game will be very competitive and could go either way, but appears that Jeannette has the better defense so I give them a slight edge in what should be a very good game to kick off the weekend

    3A Central Valley vs. Wyomissing – lots of people have been saying this is the best game of the weekend and I think they may very well be right. Central Valley has mercy ruled everyone of their opponents, they have not won every game by 35+, like last week’s game vs. Bedford that ended up 49-20, but the mercy rule has been in effect in every one of their games, I think it’s a pretty safe prediction that streak will end tomorrow. Central Valley returned quite a few starters from last years runner-up including dual threat QB Ameer Dudley and his favorite receiver Myles Walker.
    Wyomissing is also very good and may have played a tougher schedule, and I think they have an advantage in the trenches, but its hard to pick against a Central Valley team who has been on a mission all season after blowing a 14-0 fourth quarter lead against Wyoming last year.

    5A PR vs. ECP – assuming PR does not turn the ball over 5 times like they did last week I don’t think this game will be close, PR will score 40+ as usual and their defense will play better than last week and hold ECP to 2 touchdowns. I completely agree with LL Berks Guy’s analysis of the PR/GM game, coaching and the PR QB were the big differences in the game, along with the advantage of having 30 seniors who have played in a lot of very big games in their careers. The PR defense got stops in the 2nd half when they had to, and the GM defense could not stop PR as they scored on 4 straight possessions after falling behind by 22 points midway through the third quarter, and a lot of that was definitely due to coaching.

    ECP has a great coaching staff, with Mike Mischler not taking a backseat to any coach in the state, but they don’t have the talent that GM does this year, and I just don’t see how they can keep up with PR in this game.

  358. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – completely agree with you about the restrictions on fans at the games this week for a 15,000 plus seat stadium, like TJ coach Cherpak said you could put 1,500 fans in either stand and no groups would have to be near anyone else, I went to playoff games the last 4 weekends, including the TJ-Oil City game and PR vs GM last weekend, and there were more fans in the stands in stadiums that hold a third or less of the fans of Hershey Stadium, and at no time did I feel any risk of Covid as I made sure I was at least 6 feet+ from any other spectators, and we were in an outdoor stadium, where the risk of spread is very low when people social distance. There is no reason the PIAA could not have stuck with the original plan to give 1,000 tickets to each school except for King Tom and his minions who think they have to control every aspect of people’s lives and don’t feel adults can make responsible decisions for themselves and their families.

    @ Tom M – you make some very valid points about Southern Columbia and I realize it would logistically be very difficult for them to play up to 4A for an entire season. But wouldn’t it have been awesome to watch them play TJ last year in 4A and not beat an overwhelmed opponent by 70 points in the state final. I personally think TJ vs. So Col last year would have been a tremendous game and would give So Col a slight edge, but that would have been one heck of a football game.

  359. Tom M says:

    Having read some of the comments about how Southern Columbia should move up several classes, I think a Geography lesson might be necessary. SCA is nestled between corn fields in the middle of nowhere. The schools near them are primarily A and AA, with only a small handful of AAA. Moving up to AAA wouldn’t make much of a difference as SCA has beaten the state’s best in that class before. However, moving to AAA or AAAA would make it extremely difficult to find teams to fill their schedule. There are not many larger schools in the Heartland Conference. Coach Roth does his best to try to add more competitive games where he can, but many larger schools don’t want to play SCA. Before the Heartland Conference, there were years SCA didn’t know how to fill their schedule because nobody wanted to play them. To drive to a AAAA school, you’re talking hours on a bus one way. Most city schools don’t want to drive that far for a game when they can find teams closer. So, moving up a class or two works fine for your schools near Philly, Pittsburgh, or Allentown, but SCA is not near any big city to fill that kind of schedule.
    Sorry, but not sorry if your teams can’t compete, but they probably weren’t practicing during holidays and in the weight room the day after they won states. It takes dedication to get where they’re at with the small number of boys they have to choose from. Perhaps rather than make excuses as to why they should drive hours every Friday night to play big schools, the other small schools can learn from them and better themselves. They’re actually a very small AA school. It’s not like they get to pull in players from across the state like the private schools can. They just figured out a recipe for success.

  360. David Mika says:

    From our EPA Football Family to yours, Happy Thanksgiving! May you have a blessed Thanksgiving Day filled with unforgettable memories! Have a great time!

  361. Matt says:

    Yeah, especially right now it’s getting so bad they have to restrict things. I live in Northern VA (right outside DC) for work. Grew up in Lehigh valley. But the cases have gone from 50 a day in Fairfax county to 450 in a month! Positivity rate went from 3 percent to 11 percent!. And hospitalizations are up and they are running out of beds….. situations like this are happening in PA and across the country. And while younger people getting severe complications or death from this are rare, it’s happening. Last week a healthy 35 year old that ran and was in great shape died from this. That’s the 8th person in DC younger than 40 to die from this virus. Last seven years of flu, 1 person younger than 40 dies from flu in DC. Theta re just trying anything to cut down on deaths and the spread. I can’t blame them. Hopefully these vaccines are able to get us back to normal by next fall (looks like there’s a good possibly) so we can’t get back to normal lives and a normal football season. I’m afraid this winter will be brutal until we can get to spring and vaccines gets distributed. I’m shocked we even got through the season. Stay safe everyone, enjoy the games on TV and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

  362. Foleman says:

    I hate the restrictions, but they are needed to help slow the spread of Covid. If Covid doesn’t affect you, or someone you know, then it seems to many you are a victim and that nothing will happen to you. I thought the same way until one of my recruits…..I’m a corporate recruiter, called me and informed he needed to push back his start date a few weeks, I asked him if everything was OK, he said ” My mom and dad contracted Covid a few week ago, my mother just passed away and my Father isn’t going to make it either” Both of his parents were in their early 50’s In 2 short weeks the poor guys world was turned upside down thanks to Covid. Stay Safe!

  363. FrankG says:

    @KevinX I’m just glad it looks like there will be six games this weekend. Having 400 people on each side of the stadium, probably mostly sitting very near one another for two-and-a-half hours, with some people shouting, cheering, and sometimes singing looks to me at least a little risky. But the bigger risk is having a couple of thousand people travelling from different parts of the state, some for hours each way, many in cars where people in different families are mixed, and probably eating together before and after the game, etc. I know many will say that’s their choice, but the problem is that, as we all now know, the virus is most often spread by a-symptomatic people who have no clue they have the virus. So if I choose to go and wind up getting the virus from a guy sitting three rows behind me who, understandably. finds himself occasionally yelling in support of his son on the field, I may wind up passing it on to my wife who chose not to go to the game but who may be unlucky enough to develop a much worse case than I may develop.

    If we were talking about an event lasting 20-30 minutes or an event where those in attendance were not likely to be travelling for hours, often with people from different households, or an event where attendees were not likely to be eating together before and after, or an event that wasn’t happening in a state where the current daily death rate is 85 and where hospitals and hospital staff are right now stretched to the limit, I could see raising the limit.

  364. Kevin X says:

    Less that 400 tix per school, per game. I’ll assume that means zero tix for the general public. Beyond 2020 ironic for a 15,000 plus seat outdoor stadium and your governor and his sidekick is limiting attendance to less than1,000 per game, for games on a Friday where there is no school and many have off from work with a predicted temp of 60 degrees in late November.

  365. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, tough to say re: Johnson. Obviously, he would have made the GM secondary light years better. But given that fact, maybe P-R wouldn’t have thrown as much and turned the ball over 5 times? Would have been nice to see him out there, either way. And no, I don’t get the transfer rules, either. I don’t think many people do.

  366. Foleman says:

    LL-Berks, I also had to question the play calling on the last drive, PR could not stop the dive play and they were throwing the ball which is not their strong point on 2nd and 3rd down, PR had GM scouted well, Stewart was a non factor on the receiving end and you are correct about the pass coverage, I didn’t get what Mifflin was doing on defense although losing 2 defensive starters early and having another ruled ineligible hurt them. Can you imagine how good GM would have been if Kaleb Brown didn’t transfer into the Wilson SD!

  367. New2PA says:

    @LL – Berks Guy: I cannot agree more with everything you said. P-R was disciplined in what they set out to do offensively and defensively and stuck to their guns even when it looked bleak. Fortunately for them, they were able to execute in the big moments. Players made plays on both sides of the ball.

    That punt plays was crazy. I believe that after that that kid didn’t play much.

  368. LL - Berks Guy says:

    PR – GM Game

    PR won the game for two reasons – Coaching and QB play. Everything else is noise.

    1.) During pre game drills the the PR OL coach told his guys we will not let #11 beat us. ” He is the designated rusher he never drops into coverage. Do not block the other OLB – let him come free.” He said this 100 times. 11 did tip the ball on the first play but that was about it as far as disrupting the pass game.

    2.) On the defensive side the coach said this. “Do not let #10 get the edge”. That is why the fullback was effective on the dive play. They were willing to give up shorter runs to take away the big play from Singleton. By high school standards they handled Singleton by limiting him to about 100 yards but nothing over 10 yards.

    Question to the GM coaching staff is this…… Leading by 22 against a team that wants to pass the ball – Why are you playing cover Zero? Not having a safety led to multiple easy scores, both passing and running.

    You have a top 5 running back but could not get him the ball in space. It seemed like there were two plays for Singleton. Run off tackle or pitch play. You had all season to prepare for this. Figure out a way to get him the ball instead of using him as a decoy.

    Other random points –

    PR did not punt one time.

    On the tipped GM punt. The ball did not hit the PR player in the back. The PR player ran towards the ball, reached down and touched it even though everyone was yelling “poison”. The PR coaches went crazy on him. You can tell accountability is at a high level at that school.

    The GM O-Line played great. They were tough, smart, precise & relentless. Great job!

    The PR QB was the biggest difference in this game. I know he will be wrestling at Penn and maybe he is not interested in playing QB in college but he could play D1 if he wanted.

    Someone mentioned this in an earlier post 🙂 For GM to win……. They can’t have blown coverages in their secondary and the QB will need to complete passes that he has not completed all year. Both of these did not occur.

    If it rains the whole game Mifflin might have pulled the upset. If there is no rain PR wins by 30.

    GM has more D1 players on this roster then they have had in all other seasons combined. (Singleton (10), Strausser (27), Stewart (11), Johnson (ineligible) & Martin (35).

    GM will probably not have this opportunity again. Loaded roster, up 22 with 18 minutes left in the game and a chance to play for a state championship on the line.

  369. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    What you did not mention regarding ECP’s road to Hershey in 2016, was their first playoff 3 games (if you even want to call it that) prior to meeting TJ. Bye – Bye – USO. You’re not exactly getting your starters dinged up, banged up, or worse, with that murderous row schedule. Same for 2017, Bye – USO – Bye, before meeting TJ again. Sure, most, if not all teams will be meeting up with better competition once they reach the quarter and semi finals. Just to be east side of state fair, Archbishop Wood had similar early playoff cakewalks as well during that period.

    I do agree with you it would have been more than sensible to re-do the brackets on the fly for 5A. It appears that GM/P-R game Saturday was more than worthy of a most likely Championship game in that scenario. If there was ever a year to do things differently, get out of your comfort zone, mix things up, think outside the box, experiment, etc., this is it, especially if it makes a whole lot of sense and mitigate any Covid concerns/issues. But you do know who we are dealing with here…….

  370. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Probably water under the bridge at this point, but if you were still interested in the UD situation, here is some select cut and paste from the Inquirer article that I assume you were referencing. Guessing really nothing new here, based on what you mentioned in your post, so take it for what it’s worth…..

    “The Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association announced Thursday afternoon that Upper Dublin had informed the organization “that they are unable to play the [Class] 5A game versus Cathedral Prep.”

    Thursday afternoon’s news came as a surprise since Upper Dublin superintendent Steve Yanni said Thursday morning that the team had been cleared to return to practice.

    The Cardinals had not worked out on Tuesday or Wednesday as a precautionary measure related to possible exposure to the coronavirus, Yanni said.

    “We had some concerns about a close contact,” Yanni said in a phone interview. “We worked in collaboration with the [Montgomery] county health department just to make sure we were handing this situation in the best way.

    “They are cleared to go today.”

    The PIAA statement did not indicate whether Upper Dublin was forfeiting because of a positive coronavirus test or concern of possible infection during a 452-mile, round-trip bus trip to the scheduled site of the game at Hollidaysburg High in Blair County. Another possible reason for the forfeit might have been concern that the Cardinals had been able to sufficiently prepare because of the disruption to the practice schedule this week.

    Yanni did not immediately return a phone call Thursday afternoon. Upper Dublin coach Bret Stover also did not return a phone call or text message seeking comment.”

  371. New2PA says:

    Regarding P-R:

    – That game yesterday was THE BEST football game I’ve ever seen. For a bunch of HS kids to not quit and keep playing against those odds was incredible. P-R turned the ball over way to much, but I don’t see how they were going to be stopped. Defensively, they played better in the second half – but were always in bad field position because of the offense.

    – Its not the sense around here that the school district supports football to any abnormal degree. Certainly not excessively and many people believe they try and downplay the sport. There are just as many people in the district that want great academics. I think that administration wants to make sure P-R is also known for academics, even though football is on the news every Friday.

    – According to our school board records, Coach K makes about 10k and the assistants make 4-6k. I don’t know, but I’ve heard that’s very low for a 6A school.

    – I have heard of zero kids from other school districts pay tuition to come to P-R for any reason. Sports, school, drama, etc.

    – The Kenny White situation was interesting. Fallout from that continued for years afterward. P-R Principal stated she couldn’t be sure that he didn’t transfer for athletic reasons. WPIAL agreed. PIAA didn’t. Not sure they would go through that again if they have the choice. That same year Artie Burns moved his brother up to live with him (he already lived in district for at least a year or longer)

    – The coaches and parents I’ve spoken with definitely want P-R to be known as the best public HS football program in PA. IMO, early on in Coach K’s tenure, there was this hatred to the privates because of recruiting, etc. I think Coach K even talked about that in 2014. “SJP has kids from Delaware.” In the past 4-5 years that’s completely changed. There is recognition that SJP is the MODEL program for football in the state, and with the right kids and right coaching, they can be beat. The kids believe it and so do the parents. I think that attitude is part of the reason they won yesterday.

    – I think P-R’s coaches are the best. Since Coach K took over the defense in 2017 and handed the offense over to a former players from NH (Leymeier?), both sides of the ball have been stellar. If Coach K would have had the defense in 2014, I think they would have beat SJP in the finals – ONE less TD. Same story in 2015 versus Penn-Trafford. I know that Coach K, the OL Coach, and the QB coach have been together since 2011 and most of the rest since 2014. That makes a huge difference.

    – I think the rivalry between P-R and PCC is really good now. I think kids on both sides respect each other and the whole recruiting thing isn’t ever really mentioned anymore. Once the 2017 team beat SJP, playing PCC just seemed like another game.

    – I know for a fact that P-R people are tired of hearing about NA. They have done nothing in the last 8 years. This year was their first WPIAL championship appearance since 2012 and that’s only because P-R wasn’t in 6A. NA should be way better for the second largest school in the WPIAL (about double PR). But they haven’t changed anything in 15 years and now it shows. Kids at NA play the Olympic sports . I think Coach K is something like 6-2 vs NA since he took over and the final straw with NA was when their AD begged out of playing P-R this year saying that NA gained nothing from playing a “local 5A school”.

  372. Foleman says:

    D3Mike, if Eden Johnson, a D1 dback recruit for Governor Mifflin was ruled eligible by the PIAA rather than ineligible, do you think they beat Pine Richland? GM pass defense was a lot better with him in the lineup. I just don’t understand the transfer rules, I don’t think the PIAA does either. The kid moves from Philly to Berks County during the summer, was eligible to play during the season then ineligible during the playoffs. Maybe their’s more to this than meets the eye, the local paper says his mom teaches in the Penn Wood school District, that’s a 90 minute commute from Shillington. Berks County Public Schools do a great job at hiding out of District athletes.

  373. D3 Mike says:

    Also, not that they haven’t dominated everyone they’ve played but I read that Central Valley didn’t mercy rule New Castle. Don’t have a box score in front of me so I can neither confirm nor deny. I don’t think anyone above 2A has mercy ruled the entire schedule, right?

  374. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, I don’t expect anything. I’m simply pointing out that P-R can accept players from outside the district via tuition (which very few other non-charter publics can), they received transfers that they weren’t penalized for last cycle (because they were already in 6A) and that the district throws a ton of money at football. That’s sort of how they afford to hire and keep their innovative staff, no?

    And I’m not blaming them or saying I’d do any of that differently. I’m just exploding the idea that seems to permeate this board that the perennial power teams win year-in and year-out simply because they “outwork” everyone else. The best teams have the best players. The Catholic schools aren’t the only programs with structural advantages.

    The reference to PCC wasn’t about them, specifically. It was a reference to the fact that P-R beat the two best Catholic programs in the state last cycle — and moved down a class. They are THE exemplar of the public school program that Pennsylvania NEEDS to bring balance to 6A.

    As for the games today, if they were playing again tomorrow I’d take P-R to cover 3 TDs vs Mifflin. Everyone’s scouting was spot-on: Mifflin lacks balance and didn’t have the secondary. The only reason it was close was the 5 P-R turnovers and the fact that for some inexplicable reason P-R gave their corners safety help for the first 30 minutes of the game despite the fact that Mifflin’s QB had averaged 4 pass attempts / game coming in. As soon as P-R put 8 in the box Mifflin struggled to move the chains consistently.

    Two D3 teams lost close games this weekend, plus three more into the finals — but we’re still probably leaving Hershey without a trophy. 3A should at least be competitive (and hopefully 1A, too) but it wouldn’t surprise me if we saw 5 blowouts next weekend.

  375. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – totally agree with you about Central Valley vs. Wyomissing, I’ve been saying on here for the last month those teams were headed for a showdown in Hershey, and I expect that game to be extremely competitive and think it could go either way. Central Valley has been on a mission since they collapsed last year in the fourth quarter against Wyoming in the state final, and they have played with a chip on their shoulder all year, having mercy ruled every one of their opponents. I do agree Wyomissing has the advantage in the trenches and that might be the difference in the game, should be a great one. One of the benefits of working from home during the pandemic is I will get to catch the afternoon games live this year instead of having to watch the replays!

  376. Jeff H says:

    @Dennis Pascoe – I hear what you are saying about Southern Columbia, you have a point about it being an East/West thing, but I think its more about success, let’s face it, most people like to root against teams like the NY Yankees or New England Patriots, or college teams like Alabama. I made my comment based on all the various chat boards I follow across the state, many neutral observers get a little tired of hearing how great Southern Columbia is when they mercy rule every team they play in 2A for years on end. I look at the big picture and just don’t think its good for high school football in this state when the same team wins every year, whether its Southern Columbia in 2A or Erie Prep in 4A or SJP in 6A. I have all the respect in the world for Southern Columbia, they are without question one of the elite programs in the state, and Jim Roth is arguably one of the best coaches in state history, but what else do they have to prove by winning 2A every year. I wish they would challenge their kids a little more and move up a class or 2, I think it would be good for high school football overall and also good for their program. Just my opinion but I think I speak for a lot of other people who have followed HS football statewide for 40+ years.

    By the way when there was a Western PA board I made the exact same argument against ECP a few years ago and got in debates with all the Erie Prep supporters, my point was Erie Prep is one of the elite programs in the state and as such should not be playing 4A when they had one of the largest enrollments of any 4A school and all the advantages of being a private institution with no boundaries. Being a WPIAL guy it was wonderful to go to the TJ vs. Erie Prep game last year and watch TJ beat the 3 time defending state champions, but I think the vast majority of the rest of the state outside of Erie were also very happy when TJ won, and I think most of the state will be rooting for Wilmington next weekend.

  377. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I think you are being a little harsh against PR. I completely agree with you about the Kenny White transfer 3 yrs ago, that should have never been allowed by the PIAA, the WPIAL ruled against it but were overruled by the PIAA, which happens too often in my opinion, the WPIAL is one of the strictest districts in the state with regard to transfers but frequently get overruled by the PIAA. As far as money goes what do you expect from a wealthy suburban school district that puts a lot of emphasis on their football program, I would point out NA is a much bigger district than PR and is just as wealthy per capita and their alumni invest a lot of money in all their sports programs, but they haven’t had anywhere near the success that PR has had for the last 7-8 years. Its not just the money, its an innovative coaching staff that makes a big difference, and PR’s staff is light years ahead of PCC and NA and all the other big schools in the WPIAL.

    As for PCC none of the top schools in the WPIAL are intimidated by them, in fact just the opposite, all the powerhouse public schools welcome the challenge and relish beating them, they lost to both NA and Mt Lebanon in the regular season this year, so it’s not like no other public schools beat them except PR. I’m a Woodland Hills guy and back in our heyday we absolutely loved playing and beating PCC, they took some of our better players and guys like Steve Breaston and Ryan Mundy to name just 2 had PCC circled on the schedule every year, and coach Novak used it as great motivation to beat a school that recruits, I went to quite a few tremendous WH vs. PCC games in the past.

    I also agree with you about this years TJ team, they are very solid as usual but this is probably their “worst” team the last 5-6 years, this years team would lose by 3-4 scores to the ECP/Imhotep teams from 2015-2018.

  378. Jeff H says:

    I just got back from the Gov Mifflin vs. PR game and all I can say is wow, that is one of the best high school football games I’ve seen in a long time. I’m not big on clichés but if ever the old “it’s a shame either team had to lose” applied it fit this game to a T. Didn’t start out well for PR, first play from scrimmage defensive line deflected a pass and intercepted and a few plays later it was 7-0. On the subsequent drive PR fumbled and GM scored again and less than 5 minutes into the game it was 14-0 and to say the PR faithful were stunned would be an understatement. PR drove into the red zone on their next possession, and on 2nd down QB Cole Spencer overthrew a wide open Eli Yochem on a slant route that should have been an easy TD and 2 incompletions later PR turned the ball over on downs. Mifflin then went on a very impressive 83 yard drive and suddenly it was 21-0 late in the first quarter. PR scored on their next possession to cut it to 21-7, then forced Mifflin to punt and scored again, but a bad snap on PAT lead to a failed 2 pt conversion attempt and it was 21-13. PR held Mifflin to a 3 and out on the next possession and a shanked punt that went about 2 yards set PR up inside the 30 yard line and soon thereafter it was 21-19 after the 2 point conversion came up just short with about 3 minutes to go in the first half. Mifflin appeared to be content to go to the half with a 2 point lead, but lulled the PR defense to sleep and caught them off guard with about a 35 yard halfback pass from star running back Nick Singleton to Greg Suber to set Mifflin up at the 11 yard line and subsequent TD run by fullback Brandon Strausser put them up 28-19 at halftime.

    Mifflin got 2nd half kick, and on fourth and eight from midfield they lined up to go for it, but QB dropped back and quick kicked, and it hit a PR player in the back and Mifflin recovered in the red zone, a few plays later they scored and mysteriously went for 2 which failed, and it was 34-19. On next possession PR threw another interception which was returned deep into PR territory and 3 running plays later it 41-19. PR scored quickly to make it 41-26, then forced Mifflin to punt and scored again to make it 41-33 with about 4 minutes to go in third quarter. After another Mifflin punt PR scored on the 2nd play of the fourth quarter and 2 point conversion pass was good to tie the game at 41 with 11:43 to go in the game. Mifflin went on an impressive 8+ minute drive aided by questionable roughing the QB on 3rd and 24 but stalled on fourth down in the red zone and kicked a 34 yard field goal to regain the lead 44-41 with a little over 3 minutes to go. PR got possession at their own 38 and gained 8 yards on first down, then on 2nd and 2 QB Cole Spencer ran 54 yards for a TD down the left sideline to give PR their first lead of the game 48-44 with a little over 2 minutes to go. On the ensuing possession PR stopped Nick Singleton on 4th and 3 from their own 40 yard line and PR ran out the clock to end the game.

    Extremely impressed with Mifflin, Singleton is obviously a stud and I can see why all the big time college programs are recruiting him, but PR contained him pretty well like I expected they would. Fullback Strausser was the player of the game for Mifflin, he scored 4 TDs and gained a lot of yards after contact ,I’m not sure of his rushing total but think it was well over 100 yards, PR couldn’t stop him which surprised me, I’m not sure where he’s going to school but he would be an absolutely perfect fit for a team like Navy.

    Tremendous high school football game, Foleman is right about PR showing the heart of a champion, they were tested for the first time all year and they responded. It’s a shame this game was not for the state championship in Hershey because if it was the whole state would be talking about it for a long time. Erie Prep has a tremendous coaching staff and I’m sure they will come up with a great game plan for PR, but they are down this year by their standards and lost to McDowell twice and haven’t played a game in a month, I’d be surprised if they can keep it within 3 TDs next week against PR.

  379. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ Jeff H. Roots against Southern Columbia??? I have witnessed at Hershey many different schools (team jackets) up and down Pennsylvania east side of the state cheering for Southern. Nobody brings more fans from different schools to watch and cheer than Southern Columbia. Maybe what you mean to say it is a East West thing. From a Dunmore bucks fan.

  380. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H: Always appreciate the commentary, you are generally correct. Was surprised that Oil City got beat that bad, but I heard they have lost a few starters to injuries the last few weeks. Even if they were healthy they still would have lost but maybe not quite like that. It’s disappointing Erie Cathedral wasn’t able to play ESS is the quarter finals or Upper Dublin in the final four. I think both would have been close games and maybe it would mean more, but they can’t control that. It’s not looking too good for them against PIne, especially after seeing the game today. Their only hope is to slow the game down and try and keep that offense off the field. Their 2 losses are to Mcdowell and were closer than the score showed but PR is definitely better than Mcdowell. I would say your prediction is accurate.

  381. Foleman says:

    Berks Semi-Final update:

    Pine Richland over Governor Mifflin-48-44 2 great championship teams going at it in the game of the year. GM led 21-0 and had PR on it’s heels, they led by 22 points midway threw the 3rd quarter, like all great champions PR ought uphill the entire game and took the lead for good with 2:18 left in the game. HS football doesn’t get any better than this.

    Wyomissing over Danville 44-14 Danville stacked the box trying to stop the Wing-T and Wyo’s QB Zeckman threw 3 TD’S. Central Valley/Wyo should be the most competitive State final of them all. It’s going to take a very good team to beat Wyo, they are very well coached, athletic and have several lineman that range from 240-315lb plus a 240lb truck at fullback. Central Valley’s stout d-line Vs Wyomissing’s O-Line is going to be fun to watch.

  382. Mike A. says:

    Central York 37 Erie McDowell 21
    Central York overcomes early14-0 deficit with 27-0 run and eases past the Trojans.

  383. EmanD3 says:

    Mifflin 21-0…this is why they play the games

  384. D3 Mike says:

    Watched Jersey Shore and Lampeter last night. Entertaining and competitive football game. But let’s not forget that for the past half-decade (longer if you go back to 3A in 4 classes), these were the perennial state rankings in 4A:

    1. Cathedral Prep
    2. Imhotep
    3. *TJ*
    4. Berks Catholic
    5. Bishop McDevitt
    6. Bethlehem Catholic

    As good as they are, I honestly don’t know if TJ makes the semi-finals with this team the way the brackets and 4A was constructed 3 years ago — and they’re going to mercy rule both post-WPIAL games in 2020. Aliquippa was clearly the second-best 4A team in the playoffs this year (IMO McDevitt also could have stayed with TJ).

    Heard multiple WPIAL folks say this will be Pine Richland’s most competitive game. I really hope they’re right and Mifflin will definitely score some points, but having seen Mifflin play I just don’t think Mifflin has the balance or the secondary, especially since their best secondary player was ruled ineligible. I think people are selling Cathedral a little short, too. They have good balance and a staff that’s won 4A when it was four classes.

    As far as everyone putting Pine-Richland on a pedestal, they accept tuition-paying transfers (from the best football area in PA); they send legal counsel to PIAA appeals cases to ensure the Kenny White’s of the world are deemed academic transfers (lmao); and from mites on up, the entire program gets funded with more money than god. They aren’t just another public school. That’s why they are the only school in the state to have beaten both PCC and SJP — and they won 6A last cycle.

    I’m going to try to get to Wyomissing vs Danville. Two well coached teams (Danville’s head coach comes via Mount Carmel). Any of the Berks guys know if it’s possible to watch from the area surrounding the field (I assume no tickets)? I’ve only ever played there — never actually seen a game.

  385. Jeff H. says:

    @James Clews – give it a rest on Aliquippa, they were forced to move up to 4A by the PIAA, not by choice, and they took the defending state champion to OT and may be the 2nd best 4A team in the state this year, not too bad for a school with 117 boys. I’ve stated on this board in years past the primary reason they played up all those years was they wanted to play their rivals like Beaver Falls, Beaver, Hopewell, Central Valley, etc., all the schools in Beaver County. The WPIAL only puts teams from the same classification in the same conference, so if they didn’t play up they would have had to travel quite a distance for all their road games in class A and would not have been able to play their rivals every year. If you were from Western PA you would understand they are one of the most storied programs in the state and rival Southern Columbia and any other school, and they deserve to be respected and commended for what they’ve accomplished playing bigger schools all these decades. High school football would be better off in this state if more schools followed Aliquippa’s lead, why do you think most of the state respects Aliquippa but roots against Southern Columbia. When year after year you are 5+ TDs better than every other school in your classification all the state titles get pretty hollow, So Col is like a shark swimming in a farm pond in 2A.

    @Phillyboy – thanks, yes, PR is loaded this year, they are at least as good as their 2014 team and not all that far behind their 2017 team. I am taking the 2 hour drive to Hollidaysburg this morning to watch them play Gov Mifflin, their defense is very stout and will be fascinating to watch them contend with Nick Singleton who is one of the best running backs in the junior class in the country, I believe Rivals has him as the 6th best RB in class of 2022, the PR coach is comparing him to D’Andre Swift. I think Mifflin is too one dimensional to beat PR, they will contain Singleton enough, and I don’t think Mifflin will score enough to keep up with PR’s diverse offense. The other advantage PR has is they may very well have the best coaching staff in the entire state, combine that with 30 seniors and 18 returning starters and several D1 players and it’s a pretty tough combination to beat, I’ll post a report later today when I get back from the game.

  386. phillyboy says:

    @Jeff H.– Nice commentary from you, didn’t realize PR is so good this year. Somebody opined that it might be their seond best team ever, wow, because that ’14 team was no joke. Hope they take care of business against ECP, not often a public has a chance to spank an elite private. To be frank, would love to see PR pour it on. In regards to Jersey Shore’s chances against TJ, had to laugh, somehow it remimded me of Charles Barkley’s response to Bob Costas when aaked what he knew about the Dream Team’s next opponent, Angola. Barkley: “They’re in trouble”. No I realize TJ’s best team was last year, they’ll have to grind out a win if they expect to get some championship gravy. Btw, didn’t realize Coach Cherpak is one of the 50 winningest coaches in the country; read an recent article on about that, was scanning for PA reps, think SC’s Coach Roth also cracked the list.

    @James Clews– Why doesn’t Aliquippa just move up to 6A and get it over with?! Lol

  387. James Clews says:

    I guess that’s my point. Southern plays in the classification they are supposed to play in and there the best double AA program in the state. Aliquippa may have won a lot more state titles if they to played where there enrollment put them but like I said being proud and patting the program on the back I guess is aliquippas trophy. Almost beat Thomas Jefferson ,may as well move up one more class since we r the 4th best in 4a now

  388. Jeff H. says:

    Just got back from watching Thomas Jefferson crush Oil City 62-0, hard to believe they were 10-0 coming into the game, It took TJ 4 plays and 1:15 to open the scoring on a 65 yard drive capped by a 21 yard TD pass, Oil City fumbled at their own 30 a few plays later, and before the crowd could settle into their seats it was 14-0 and the rout was on. Saw Jersey Shore beat LS 39-35 in a game that went back in forth, I admittedly don’t know much about Jersey Shore but I don’t like their chances against TJ next week, appears the TJ vs. Aliquippa game last week might have been the 2 best 4A teams this year.

    Central Valley rolled 49-20 to set up a probable great matchup with Wyomissing next week in 3A, while in 2A Wilmington held on the beat Beaver Falls 20-18.

    In single A Jeannette rolled 48-12 over Reynolds without their freshman phenom Brad Birch at QB who was out with a sprained ankle, they will definitely be favored next week whether he plays or not, he’s already getting D1 interest as a freshman at an A school. Jeannette is going to be a force to be reckoned with for the next 3 years with him at QB, I could definitely see them winning 4 WPIAL titles in a row assuming he stays healthy.

  389. Indian 87 says:

    Jersey shore 39 – Lampeter – Strasburg 35

  390. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – I certainly do not agree Erie Prep’s road to Hershey in 4A was the easiest in the land, they had to beat both the WPIAL and District 3 winner each year to get to Hershey, I was at their game against TJ in 2016 where they won 30-13 and the game was much closer than the final score, TJ receivers dropped at least 6 passes in that game when they were pretty wide open and if they make those plays that game goes down to the wire. I also went to the 2017 game at Somerset HS between Prep and Berks Catholic and BC played them tough and game was tied 24-24 at half before ECP pulled away for a 41-24 victory. And I was at the TJ game last year when they finally got over the hump and beat them 28-13, so I would not say they had an easy path to Hershey. I personally think they should have been playing 5A all those years and not 4A but that’s a whole different argument.

    They are down this year having lost to McDowell twice and PR will likely mercy rule them in the final assuming they get past a very good Gov Mifflin team tomorrow, it is a shame the other 5A schools on their side of the bracket had to forfeit. I heard on another board there was no reason given in the Philly Inquirer for why Upper Dublin forfeited, did they actually have a Covid case on the team or cases at the school, or did the district just decide it wasn’t worth the long bus ride to play in the state semi-final and do the politically correct thing? If its the latter their school administration should be ashamed for quitting on their kids.

    What the PIAA should have done was reconfigured the brackets so PR played Erie Prep this week and Gov Mifflin played Upper Dublin, that would have significantly cut down on travel for all 4 teams involved.

  391. Jeff H. says:

    Erie Prep is down this year by their standards and assuming they still play the state title games next week I predict that will be a mercy rule game for PR and Prep will suffer their worst loss since they were blown out by Imhotep in the 2015 state final. Tomorrow’s game between PR and Gov Mifflin is the de facto championship game because it certainly appears those are the 2 best teams in the state this year in 5A.

    I hope all the schools still playing refuse to wear masks, what an absolute ridiculous requirement from the state to wear a mask on the field while playing.

    @D3 Mike – if it was up to the state there would have been no football or any fall sports played this year. I do agree the PIAA should have recommended some standardized guidelines for dealing with Covid, but they left it up to each school board.

  392. mcd 65 says:

    @ #Rumor has it, Yes Imhotep will be one of the landing places for the top McD underclass players. Another will be Northeast which has already gotten some very talented McD players in the recent past. Cheltenham and Wood will get a few Im sure. They have some real solid players that any team would like to have . Bridgeman and Pergine are two absolute gifted LBs and both underclassman . A freshman 217 lb RB is just emerging . This is their last chance to be on the field . I know the kids are upset , but Im sure coach Watkins will have them focused. BTW coach Watkins and his staff will also be available for local team coaching openings .

  393. New2PA says:

    @KevinX: If P-R wins, the natural place to have the game is Slippery Rock U. Except they are closed down too. Erie Coliseum would be next guess as ECP is the home game.

    But I bet its still in Hershey.

  394. The Joneses says:

    @Mcd 65.. It’s always sad when schools close because all that history is gone. I guess that’s not the case for all schools as it is with McD. I can say the sharks are already circling to grab up all the talent they have on the football team. I guess that’s can be a good thing for the players involved in an otherwise sad situation.

  395. D3 Mike says:

    Over 10% of the student body in quarantine and the entire school now virtual at Thomas Jefferson… but this weekend’s game proceeding as planned. Meanwhile, other programs have folded over far less. It’s almost as if the PIAA, if not the state, should have instituted uniform rules for participation beyond scout’s honor (see: football program priority) at each individual school.

    Shockingly, it looks like the six teams ranked #1 in the state in their respective classes, pre-season, will all make it through Covid to get to Hershey.

  396. #RumorHasIt says:

    I heard from a current Mcdevitt player that most of the kids that play football 4 them will be trying to get into Imhotep when it closes. Imhotep had a stacked team this year but with some of Lancers talent they probably can give any team in the state a run next year. FYI most Mcdevitt kids live in Imhotep area Uptown/Mount Airy section of Philadelphia

  397. Kevin X says:

    …….and let’s see if the PIAA get’s things right, do the right thing, or at least show some attempt of common sense, that is if P-R beats Mifflin (or otherwise advances to the championship game), that they move the 5A championship game to the Wolverena or somewhere else out west willing to host. Having those two teams travel to Hershey for an 8p game on Friday night would be asinine. Even moving it to Saturday as the mid afternoon game would still be a joke.

  398. mcd 65 says:

    Hey, thanks guys. Hard to comprehend they are ending 60 years of football. My brother was McD first QB back in 1960.Yikes !!!!!!!!! I will still be an interested High school football guy for sure. FYI Just heard Upper Dublin had to cancel their game with Cathedral Prep saturday. Crazy year .

  399. Kevin X says:

    Welp, so much for Upper Dublin. A forfeit to Cathedral Prep. Damn, I thought ECP’s road to Hershey was the easiest in the the land when they were in 4A. Spoke too soon. One game played, one win, and voila, into the Championship game in 5A. You guys enjoying all of this nonsense yet??

  400. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ mcd 65 – Sorry to hear about Bishop McDevitt closing.

  401. Mike D says:

    Hey mcd 65….here’s hoping this is not the final game in McD history….so sorry to hear they are closing…i’m wishing them all the luck in the world

  402. mcd 65 says:

    @ coal region fan , Thanks for the live stream info.

  403. mcd 65 says:

    Just announced that Bishop McDevitt will close at the end of the year. I am so bummed out.

  404. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Maybe a little weekend Pocono getaway for you and the misses (or a McDevitt alumi reunion Pocono weekend) 🙂

    “WQMY-TV will have the broadcast rights to this weeks PIAA semi final football game (Bishop McDevitt vs Southern Columbia). We are excited to bring this game to our viewing area. WQMY can be seen on all Cable, Satellite and Over the air signals. “

  405. mcd 65 says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe, Thanks again Dennis. McD started 7 freshman last year a a couple this year also. I dont know what happened to their beginning of the year starting QB and starting RB ,but they seemed to have disappeared. Southern will for sure have home field advantage [hoping refs are fair ] McD has traveled to Dunmore ,central Pa. and now up to Sellinsgrove. I know the team certainly doesnt mind. Southerns playoff experience and their long term great coaching staff will surely be a big factor. McD has never been this far in the playoffs so excuse my excitement and optimism . They are a well coached bunch also with a relatively new staff and have some really talented players . The next couple years could be interesting for them if they can maintain their players. They have lost 4 all catholic players in the last few years due to transfers, two to Neuman/Goretti and 2 to Northeast.

  406. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    I believe the SCA v McD game will stream live on YouTube – Stone State Sports. At least my understanding is that the PIAA is allowing them to stream this week, but would not allow it last week.

  407. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    McDevitt, Upper Dublin and Soudy all should be fine and good to play this weekend (barring a specific school, district or team Covid issue). The Montco requirement goes into effect on Monday. Now if by the grace of God any of them actually make it to Hershey, who knows what will happen. St. Joe Prep, I haven’t heard of seen anything else with regards to them, but I’ll play the Delco card and assume they will be able to play. If the game was scheduled for Northeast or the NW Supersite, I would assume they’d either have to move it or forfeit.

    I believe (and anyone feel free to expand or correct me) is that you only need 3 transfers over the 2 year cycle to trigger the playing-up factor. And only one for hoops. And yes, one of my many issue with this, that transfers out don’t factor into the success factor. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander, no?? Another thing, is that you get the same 4 points for winning the championship or being the runner-up. Seriously?? Shouldn’t you maybe get an extra “point” for at least winning the championship?? And/or have another trigger, that being you must at least win a championship to be forced to move up (i.e. Imhotep)??

    I was thinking the same thing about some of the teams forced to move up with them moving back down after this cycle. Thing is, I don’t believe you go back to your enrollment classification with your new enrollment numbers (Aliquippa won’t go back to “A” even if they wanted to), but just move a level down from your current classification, regardless of your new enrollment figs (unless it goes up). Then again, I suppose the PIAA can make changes to all of this as we go forward. As of now, Wood and Imhotep will get zero “points” this season, so basically they are guaranteed based on the current system to move back down to at least 5A and 4A respectively in two years, unless their enrollments explode in that time frame, which is highly unlikely.

  408. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @mcd 65 I was able to find out game is at Selinsgrove at 1pm Sat. Sources say you can go to the PIAA website and get tickets. That is about all I know. Hoping it will be live streamed. Stone States Sports live streamed their district 4 playoff but was unable to broadcast the Richland game because of infringement rights. Side note: I was told PIAA wants 3K to live stream a playoff game up until Hershey.

  409. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ mcd 65 I will try to find more info and post it here. Stay tuned. Also have been told Southern Columbia 9th grade is unbelievable. They also have a young

  410. mcd 65 says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe, Thanks for checking ,I appreciate it. I do hope I can at least see it livestreamed. McD may surprise .[Hope so anyway].I bet if I were a gambler I could get McD + 30 and I would sure take it. They are young , but have talent . They sure cant be any worse than the prvious 57 teams that SC has blasted. Great program up there. I

  411. The Joneses says:

    @mcd65 The Prep is still playing. They will get the game in this weekend against Souderton. Since the championship is in Hershey after that, should they win no more blockers. I think the Montco schools might be fine if its not mandated they cease playing. Philadelphia only suggested schools playing in other county’s stop.

  412. FrankG says:

    I don’t think the Prep is affected by the Mayor’s announcement since the game is in Delaware County. But it’ll be a small miracle if one of the schools now in the semis doesn’t have to forfeit because of COVID.

  413. Foleman says:

    Michael, the Competition rules are based on 2 Criteria-Success in the PIAA playoffs and number of football players that transfer into the school……..interesting that kids that transfer out of the program doesn’t factor in the rule. If a team has 6 points or greater in a 2 year period and accepts 5 or more transfers during the 2 year period, a team has to move up 1 classification.

    Success Factor scale
    * Participation in a district final = 1 point
    * Participation in a PIAA quarterfinal = 2 points
    * Participation in a PIAA semifinal = 3 points
    * Participation in a PIAA final = 4 points

  414. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ mcd 65 Sorry not much help with your question. I do have a few contacts over there and all I hear right now is the game is at Selinsgrove. Time? The last game was supposed to be live streamed but I could not find it. Black Diamond Sports is the radio feed on the web. Sorry.

  415. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, wouldn’t be surprised to see the Prep playing despite what the Mayor says…….who also happens to be a Prep grad. St. Joe Prep already told the Archdiocese where to go when they decided to play the season despite the Archdiocese originally shutting the season down. McDevitt, I’m not so sure about, they are going to get pounded if the decide to play the game.

  416. Michael says:

    What’s the requirements to move down or back up for the fairness rules?

  417. mcd 65 says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe, Will fans be permitted at the SC /McD game Saturday ? Will the game be live streamed ? Thank Dennis.

  418. mcd 65 says:

    The prep may not have a chance to go forward due to the Phila mayor not allowing HS sports activities. I do not have a firm confirmation of this at this point. Additionally Montgomery County schools will have the same restriction as of 11/23 which would eliminate those schools from advancing to the finals if they were to win this weekend. BTW each of those three teams are HUGE underdogs anyway [ Souderton/vs The Prep, Upper Dublin/Cathedral Prep and Bishop McDevitt vs Southern Columbia. Any updates ??

  419. Kevin X says:

    Not sure of the specifics here or how this is going to play out, but the City of Philadelphia is on the verge of shutting down again and the prohibiting sports. So St. Joe’s may have to forfeit against Souderton on Sat. Game tho is in Delco, so don’t know if that matters or not. But then Souderton may have to forfeit the championship game as the Montco Health Dept. is requiring all county schools to go virtual for two weeks (yeah, right) starting next Monday and maybe stop all sports and x-tra circular activities. This would also effect (or is it affect, can never get that right) Upper Dublin and Bishop McDevitt if they win this weekend in a possible championship game appearance.

  420. Foleman says:

    I hope the Schools that got screwed by the PIAA’S “Fairness” rules move back to the classification where they belong after their 2 years are up- Aliquippa-1A TEP-3A ECP-4A Wood-4A just to show those clowns what a farce it is!

  421. New2PA says:

    @Jeff H: Too cold for me so I watched on the CW. I agree with everything you said. They are very good. If they finish this, they will be ranked just behind the 2017 team and well ahead of the 2014 team. Their run game was incredible and something we hadn’t seen. QB and RB over 100, plus another at 60+. And they still can pass the ball with both Spencer and Jochem setting records. But the defense is outstanding as well. Great linebacker play and Jackson is dominant at DE. Neill at CB has also been a very nice surprise.

    @D3 Mike: I hear a little of the grumbling that P-R should be playing up. Its where their enrollment puts them. Hat’s off the Quips for playing it – its amazing what they do, but where is the chorus of people wanted Clairton, TJ and West A playing up. WAY more overall success than P-R. I think its a little bit about the “mystique” of the program. Very modern offense and defense with a charismatic head coach that has become a big winner. I guess that’s how it goes.

    Finally – there is one team that doesn’t want P-R to play up. NA. LoL….

  422. DENNIS Pascoe says:

    Same thing here year after year. Southern move up. Aliquippa plays up. Both storied programs. Pine-Richland? Yes they look good. I will get some heat started. How would Pine-Richland play up to 6A and get mercy ruled by halftime to SJP. But just because Aliquippa plays up why should Southern play up and don’t give me crap about testing themselves that is a bunch of B.S. and these remarks come from a Dunmore bucks fan.

  423. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Does anyone know what the ticket allotment and or attendance limit will be at Holidaysburg for the PR – GM game? Will there be tickets sold at the gate?

    I know there are state guidelines for crowd size but the enforcement or interpretation seems to be different at every game. Appears to be more geographical.

  424. Tony F says:

    I respect aliquipa playing up for harder competition but I rather be successful in a lower classification than lose in the district/state playoffs in a higher division. Everyone respects aliquippa for playing up but there’s no reward for it. S Columbia is a small school. Just because they are successful year in and year out doesn’t mean they need to play up in classification. I rather end my year with a state championship than a pat on the back for “playing up in classification”.

  425. GaryZ says:

    @James F Crews
    No disrespect but do some homework bout the ‘Quips, or try and learn a little bout HS football. Your assessment was absolutely idiotic and showed your level of knowledge. Not trying to be ill to you, but come on that post ridiculous and very uninformed.

  426. GaryZ says:

    HSFootball /JF Crews. Yes S. Columbia did beat the Class A Quips in ‘15. Just like a small school Steel Valley smoked Southern, or Clairton, Rochester beating Southern. Point is how ya think they do against 5A Pine Richland? Cause that be equivalent to the Quips playing up 3 classes. S. Columbia is a phenomenal program. Fans and coaches think they are the best in state and very confident. Well if they are so confident then try playing up. See if you do as well as the ‘Quips up 3 classes. Why stick in 2A to just blow teams out. They think there the best, well play 5A and try to blow em out. Again much respect to Southern, but test yourself. If Beaver Falls and Southern play in finals that’s a game. B. Falls is very good. Just annoying that your smack talking the Quips, but Southern will not bump up. They obviously wanna win easy and keep doing it in A. If they played 5A Pine Richland, they would be crushed. However the Quips played up 3 against defending PIAA Champ T. Jefferson, should have won in OT. Respect to Southern, but take a shot playing up. See if the fans say they the best in State. S. Columbia vs Beaver Falls is gonna be a fine game. Just show the ‘Quips respect, they not afraid to play up.

  427. Jeff H says:

    i went to the Pine Richland vs. Peters Township game last night and to say PR was impressive would be am understatement ,as they totally dominated a very solid Peters team 35-0. As I’ve said on here before PR is better than every team in the WPIAL by 3-4 touchdowns and that includes PCC and North Alleghany. Very complete team, excellent defense, balanced offense and very good special teams. They have 30 seniors and 18 returning starters and one of the best coaching staffs in the state. They are primarily a passing team but do run the ball pretty well, Peters has a very good secondary let by safety Donovan McMillon who is going to Florida, so instead of forcing the pass PR ran the ball down their throats to the tune of 273 yards. Their first scoring drive was 19 plays that covered 79 yards and looked like an NFL drive gaining 4-5 yards every play.

    Watching them in person for the first time this year confirmed my belief they are probably the 2nd best team in the state behind SJP. I know Governor Mifflin is very good and has a big time running back being recruited by some major D1 schools but for them to win next week they have to play their A+ game and hope PR plays their C game, if PR plays like they did last night I think they win by 3 scores, they are that good, we’ll see soon enough, that’s why they play the games. Glad to see that game is being played in Hollidaysburg which if my geography is correct should be about the same amount of travel for both schools.

    @D3 Mike – i haven’t heard any criticism of PR playing in 5A this year from any of the guys I know around here who follow HS football, just a lot of respect for their program, there are more good teams in the WPIAL in 5A than there are in 6A so its not like they are playing lesser competition during the regular season and district playoffs. Their enrollment put them at 5A for the next 2 years so that’s where they are playing, and lets face it, if SJP did not have a juggernaut of a team they would have likely played up in 6A, even the PR diehards I talked to last night agree they would lose to SJP by 3 TDs or more, that’s how much better SJP is than every other team in the state. By the same token that’s all the more reason to respect and admire what Aliquippa has done over the years.

  428. Jeff H says:

    @James Clews – others have already rebutted your ridiculous argument, but I’ll add some more as someone who has lived in Pittsburgh and followed the WPIAL for 45 years. Aliquippa is a small 1A school who has played up for decades and Michael is right, if they played 1A every year where their enrollment has always been they probably would have won at least 15 state titles by now. Do you have any clue how many NFL players have come from this small town? They have won 17 WPIAL titles playing up, more than any other school in the district (by comparison Clairton has won 14 strictly playing in 1A every year), and its pretty widely accepted that overall the WPIAL plays the best football in the state. To put 13 straight WPIAL finals in perspective Southern Columbia would have to play in District 3 and make either the 4A or 5A district final 13yrs in a row, as great of a program that So Col has the D3 guys will tell you there is zero chance they make the D3 district finals that many years in a row playing up 2-3 classes. Do a little homework before you make stupid comments.

  429. HSFootball says:

    @GaryZ. Southern Columbia rocked Aliquippa in the 2015 AA state final 49-14.

  430. Michael says:

    Aliquippa could play 1a every year but has chosen to play up, if they didn’t they would have as many Piaa if not the most of any high school in piaa history.

    People look at there storied history and forget they play classes higher than they should

  431. D3 Mike says:

    Hahahaha! James, is that a parody account? I feel like it is and I’m just not getting the joke. If not, I honestly can’t respond effectively in a PG, moderated forum…

    A quick teaser, though: anyone who thinks the point of youth athletics is to win a state championship every year should: 1) grow up, and 2) get a life, in that order.

    I’m not a WPIAL guy, but there’s a reason Pine-Richland is being criticized and Aliquippa praised this weekend by almost everyone I follow who knows WPIAL football.

  432. GaryZ says:

    @ James F Clews. Well maybe because they have a 116 boys in 9-12, and are a small class A school. Always played up, this year the PIAA made them go to 4A. They could play in A or AA and just blow teams off the field. Literally would just humiliate teams in A n AA. All respect for S. Columbia, but I don’t see them moving up. They like to stay in 2A and have blowouts every week. They are an excellent team, but if they did what ‘Quips do… they could play 5A. See how they fair against teams like Pine Richland. They have won WPIAL and States playing up, I would like to see how they fair in 5A. Again no disrespect, Roth is a great coach and the kids play so hard. But before you knock on the Quips, maybe consider they play up 3 Classes. Took defending State Champs T. Jefferson to OT in D7 final yesterday.

  433. mcd 65 says:

    @ james Clews, You are clueless regarding The Quipps. They were forced up to 4A by the PIAA. Your post is one of the most ridiculous ones I have read here. They are winners !!!!

  434. James F Clews says:

    I don’t understand people’s mentality concerning aliquippa. Why does everyone keep praising them for playing up in class but once again there going home with nothing. Year in and year out aliquippa proves they are not the best team in the state in the class they have moved up to. The point of sports is to win!!!! To win a state championship you have to win!!!! Since when did it become cool to almost be the best even though technically maybe you were the best if you didn’t over estimate yourself. Aliquippa is the tee ball coach who lets everyone tee it up and hit until his kid comes up and they pull the tee away and he pitches to him to prove his kid could hit a ball softly on the ground for 15 feet without a tee. And he’s better than the rest. Hey tball coach your kid ain’t that good and hey aliquippa neither r u.

  435. EmanD3 says:

    Curious as to how Central York football team can play on Sat., when on Friday the school shut down until 11/29 “due to Covid cases”? Wondering how Hburg, PCC, Warwick and the rest of the PIAA teams that had to forfeit feel about that? Asking for a friend!

  436. Mike A. says:

    Central York football storms past Delaware Valley and into state semifinals

  437. Jeff H says:

    Many times games don’t live up to their hype but western pa football fans were just treated to a tremendous game between TJ and Aliquippa won by TJ 35-28 in OT. Game was tied at 7-7 at half with both defenses stuffing the run, Quips took the lead in second quarter on 1yr QB sneak and then TJ scored late on a 35 yard TD pass. In the second half TJ went up 14-7 and then Aliquippa answered with another short QB run for a TD to tie it at 14 with 11:30 to go in the game. TJ returned subsequent kickoff to the Quips 30 yard line and 2 plays later scored to take 21-14 lead, then pinned the Quips deep and partially blocked a punt from the end zone and got the ball back on the 25 yard line and in the blink of an eye it was 28-14 with about 8 minutes to go. Then Aliquippa returned the kickoff to TJ 32 and 2 plays later a beautiful TD pass made it 28-21. On the ensuing possession an Aliquippa interception at their own 30 yard line gave them life and they went on a a 70 yard drive capped by 14 yard TD run by Vernon Redd to tie the game at 28-28 with just under 2 minutes to go and TJ played for OT as they were out of timeouts. Aliquippa won the toss and played defense, TJ scored a TD on QB sneak on 3rd and 2, and on third down an interception in the end zone sealed the win for TJ, great high school football game, we are blessed local TV broadcasts most of the WPIAL title games.

    @D3 Mike – agree Jersey Shore is the favorite next week over LS and expect TJ to beat Oil City to set up a TJ-Jersey Shore final in 4A, Oil City squeaked past Upper Moreland 28-27.

    In single A Jeannette blew out and mercy ruled Clairton 45-14, after racing to a 21-7 lead at half and then scoring 24 straight points in the 2nd half, avenging a loss in the first game of the season to Clairton 34-28. They have a freshman QB Brad Birch who is going to be a special player and his older brother is his favorite target and have a bunch of other weapons, good luck to any A team trying to contain this offense.

  438. Kevin X says:

    @ David Mika

    I have it on reliable sources that if McDowell does indeed win the 6A championship via a string of forfeits, in lieu of a PIAA trophy, they will receive a life size bust of Dr. Anthony Fauci, and instead of the traditional oversized Hershey bar, each player will be presented with a gift bag consisting of face masks, a bottle of hand sanitizer, Clorox wipes and a roll of toilet paper (I’ll let you guys come up with your own conclusions on the symbolism of the TP).

  439. EmanD3 says:

    This just in, Central York QB is good. Another demolition job…49-26. Maybe they are for real??

  440. ll- berks guy says:

    Where can the PR – PS game be watched if you don’t live in the WPIAL area. I’ve seen listed on TV on PITTSBURGH CW channel and audio streamed on Trib HSSN channel but can’t find a video stream.


  441. D3 Mike says:

    McD: no, that was a nice win for McDevitt! From what I’ve read, that was actually one of the more competitive and entertaining playoff games last night. But as long as Southern Columbia is in 2A, I honestly don’t pay much attention to D3-2A. I knew it was a lost cause, especially since Camp Hill had already fallen to the D3-1A champ in the regular season.

    Good luck next weekend. This is probably one of the better years to catch them in the semi-finals.

    I’ll say it again: it’s really a shame the Wyomissing-SCA game was cancelled. They might have the two best teams below 5A in Eastern PA this year.

  442. mcd 65 says:

    D-3 Mike, You forgot 2A . Its not often McD D-12 gets any props LOl. Just having fun Mike. At least Camp Hill doesnt have to play THOSE guys next week. @ Jeff, great info on those two great programs.

  443. D3 Mike says:

    On the other side of 3A, Wyomissing handles Lakeland 47-0. They have now outscored opponents 250-12 in the first half in their 8 games, with their only TD allowed on a kickoff return (stat courtesy of Mike Drago). Wyo will be favored against the Danville / Archbishop Carroll winner.

    Steelton beats Old Forge 39-36 on a last-second catch in 1A. You can find the play on Twitter. Great, back-and-forth tilt. Steelton will have their hands full with Guilfoyle next weekend. D3 has really struggled in recent years in this class vs the D6 reps.

    Lampeter-Strasburg beats Elco in the D3-4A final. Congrats to L-S — you can only beat who is on your schedule — but this was not a great year for D3-4A with BC and McDevitt sitting out. Jersey Shore the favorites vs L-S next weekend.

    Central York vs Delaware Valley in a your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine type of game. IMO, Delaware Valley really benefited themselves by scheduling La Salle early in the season. Will help them prepare for Central York’s speed. Should be an entertaining game. Edge to Del Valley, although I’ll be hoping to see a record-tying 5th District 3 team make the semi-finals in a season. Winner gets McDowell who has managed to make the state semi-finals despite winning only 1 game since September 25th.

  444. Jeff H. says:

    As expected the clock struck midnight for Cinderella Elizabeth Forward tonight as they fall to Central Valley 35-0 in 3A WPIAL final. EF was making their first ever appearance in the district finals and was 8-0 going into tonight but ran into a juggernaut. CV is now 10-0 and has won every game by mercy rule, I said on here several weeks ago they are on a mission to atone for their collapse against Wyoming in the 4th quarter in Hershey last year and fully expect them to meet Wyomissing in 2 weeks in what could potentially be the best game of all 6 in the state finals.

    For all you diehards and historians out there here are some interesting tidbits about the Aliquippa vs.TJ game tomorrow at 1pm that is just oozing with history.

    These schools have combined for 26 WPIAL titles, 17 by Aliquippa and 9 by TJ, the most ever for a WPIAL title game

    Aliquippa is making their record 13 straight appearance in the championship game, all while playing up 1, 2 and now this year 3 classes, I can’t begin to describe how amazing an accomplishment that is, before the season started I and most everyone else expected that streak to end this year when the PIAA forced them to play 4A

    TJ has made the semi-finals or finals 21 out of the last 22 years in the old 3A and for the last 5 yrs 4A

    TJ coach Bill Cherpak is tied with Bob Palko, formerly of West Alleghany and now head coach at Mt Lebanon with 8 WPIAL titles, with a win tomorrow he becomes the coach with most championships in WPIAL history.

    These teams have played once in their storied histories, 40 years ago in 1980 at the old Pitt Stadium in the 3A title game, TJ upset Aliquippa 28-8 to win their first district title, that was the year the PIAA went to 4 classes for the first time.

    TJ has 347 boys in grades 9-11. Aliquippa has 117 boys

    Now for the game tomorrow. It’s hard to go against TJ when they make the final, but South Fayette did beat them 2 years ago. I think Aliquippa’s skill players and speed are going to give TJ some problems, but if TJ doesn’t turn the ball over like they did against McKeesport they should be able to go on some sustained drives against Aliquippa and perhaps wear them down in the 2nd half because they have fewer kids who go both ways. I think Aliquippa makes one more big play than TJ and I pick them to win 28-21 in what should be a great game.

  445. Jeff H. says:

    Covid wrecks havoc again, PCC just forfeited their game to Erie McDowell due to a Covid outbreak at the school.

    @D3 Mike – that game might be at Pine Richland, I’m not sure, I know for this weeks games Erie Cathedral Prep was supposed to play Wyoming Valley West at Brockway but WVW forfeited due to Covid, and in 4A Oil City is playing Upper Moreland at Hollidaysburg tomorrow at 1pm, so maybe its just the schools from D10 in NW PA matched up against schools from D1/D2 that are playing at neutral sites, I would imagine Erie Prep will play the D1 winner next week somewhere in the central part of the state.

    @New2PA – i am going to try and get a ticket for the game tomorrow night, planning on getting to NA around 5:45 since I was told the tickets go on sale at 6pm, and there will be 200 first come first serve, if you end up going I’ll be the guy in the black windbreaker with Wolverines in turquoise on the left chest.

  446. David Mika says:

    McDowell has two forfeit wins and two forfeit wins away from winning a 6A title without playing…..COVID-19

  447. New2PA says:

    PCC forfeits. McDowell moves on.

  448. New2PA says:

    @Jeff H.: I had not heard that about the tickets. I was planning on watching the game on the CW. If the weather isn’t too cold, I may go though.

    @LL-Berks Guy: Your summary of P-R matches what I have seen all year. IMO, they have been playing their best football late in the year. I have said elsewhere that I thought Penn-Trafford was the second best team in WPIAL 5A. Only lost to Peters by 3 but had SEVEN turnovers!

  449. Kevin X says:

    I have also heard that some schools simply do not want to host. Ran into this situation last winter with the basketball, but at least with football, there was some advance notice. Also, since there are limited fans = limited gate receipts = less revenue to pay neutral host facilities. Cheaper and easier to let a higher seed host.

  450. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, so Mifflin will not be playing at the PR-Peters winner’s home stadium? I had not heard that. How is the PIAA able to get schools to staff neutral fields during a pandemic? They struggle to get volunteers during a regular season.

  451. Jeff H says:

    @Robert – in a normal year all quarterfinal games between different districts are at neutral sights, although some quarterfinals that are district finals are played on the higher seeds home field like District 1 6A and 5A. This year to cut down on travel and not have 2 schools and their fans travel to a neutral sight the PIAA is letting schools host quarterfinal and semi-final games, unless they are several hours apart in which case the games will be played in the central part of the state like Altoona or Hollidaysburg.

  452. Jeff H. says:

    @ LL – Berks Guy – excellent analysis of the PR vs.GM game next week, I completely agree with you, if GM is forced to pass often and/or fall behind early they are in trouble, to have a shot they have to win the turnover battle and keep PR’s offense off the field by going on long clock eating drives. I also agree PR is probably the 2nd best team in the state, they are definitely the best team in the WPIAL this year and would handle either Pittsburgh CC or North Alleghany.

    PR plays a very good Peters Twp team on Saturday night, I’ve seen PR on video and Peters in person the last 2 weeks, they will have trouble scoring enough points to keep up with PR, I expect the final score to be something like 35-17 and maybe worse. Will be interesting to see what Peters does with their secondary, their strength is their safety McMillon who is going to Florida, their corners are decent by not great, I expect them to have McMillon help double team Jochem. If they play like they did in the first half against Gateway last week they will get blown out, Gateway dominated and should have been up by more than 19-0.

    @New2PA – I do think McDowell has a realistic chance against PCC on Saturday afternoon in Erie, they beat Erie Prep twice and I think they match up pretty well with PCC, expect it to be a close game. Are you going to the PR game on Saturday night? I called the NA athletic office and they told me PR is only selling 800 out of the allotted 1,000 tickets and the rest will be available at the gate at 6pm, so I’m planning on getting there early to get a ticket.

    I was hoping to get a ticket to see TJ vs. Aliquippa but I was told that game is sold out so I’ll have to settle for watching on TV! I’ll post some more thoughts/analysis about that game tomorrow.

    @Kevin X – I saw 3 Woodland Hills games from the stands this year by getting tickets through my connections at the school, my kids were in the band the last 6 years, and while both have since graduated I still have connections with enough parents to get tickets for home games.

    For the WPIAL playoff games they are giving each school 1,000 tickets, and if they don’t sell them all they make them available to the general public at the gate, I got to the Gateway vs. Peters game last week right before kickoff and was prepared to watch from outside the stadium but to my surprise they were selling tickets so I got to watch from the stands.

  453. Robert says:

    Why are some teams in the quarter finals playing on their home fields? I thought all state playoff games had to be played at neutral sites.

  454. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Assuming PR wins this weekend which by all accounts they will – Here is my assessment of GM vs PR next weekend.

    PR runs a spread offense with a ton of shifting and motion. Also a lot of no huddle and hurry up. A very advanced offense for high school and probably more advanced then some colleges. They know how to attack a weakness on the opponent and create blown coverages consistently in the secondary. The QB (Cole Spencer) is very accurate and his favorite target is #5 Eli Jochem. When you watch the team you’re not blown away by one individual or awed by elite athleticism but they are the 2nd best team in the state.

    Defensively they are strong against the pass and sound against the run. I was not able to locate a video of a PR opponent against a strong team that runs as much as Mifflin so I’m not 100% sure how that plays out.

    Mifflin is actually running out of the I formation most of the time with a little Veer mixed in. They found that Singleton is more effective running wide via a pitch then running straight ahead out of a Fullback slot. The other back (Strausser) is solid and they have a great Tight End in Stewart. The big question mark is the QB who has only attempted 34 passes in 7 games and most of the pass attempts have been deep balls that did not require reading a defense. If Mifflin needs to throw, the QB will be challenged to win this game and attempt passes he has never thrown in his career.

    Defensively Mifflin is strong and full of athletes. Coach Lang said at the beginning of the year he would keep it simple and let his athletes just play. This approach has worked but will it work against a complex PR offense?

    I give PR the edge in – Coaching, QB, WR, Special Teams, Team IQ.

    I give Mifflin the edge in – RB, D Line, Team Speed

    For Mifflin to win they must – Win turnovers, Maintain run game, Not fall behind early, No blown coverages. Hope for a rainy windy day.

    For PR to win they must – Contain the Run – That’s it.

    Summary – PR wins easy if they make MIfflin pass and do not have a bunch of turnovers.

    I’ve seen Mifflin a lot over the years and when they can’t out physical a team they don’t win big games. 2017 as an example – As a huge underdog they beat Harrisburg with Micah Parsons on a cold rainy day by running the ball 64 times…… but the next week they lost to a less athletic Manheim Central who runs a spread offense. MC won the game when the WR put a double move on a CB late in the game.

  455. mcd 65 says:

    Pennridge /Souderton should be a good game . I like Pennridge in a close one. Richland/ So Columbia may be closer than past So.C games. I like McDevitt over Camp Hill in the other Eastern 2A game .Malvern Prep should handle Wood. I saw that former Malvern Linebacker Kieth Maguire played Saturday night for Clemson vs Notre Dame. Whe Trotter from the Pre gets there next year Clemson will have two LBs from our area.

  456. DENNIS Pascoe says:

    I do feel bad for the kids and more for the teams who lost to covid that’s the killer here. Good teams who practiced all summer. GONE! I would not be surprised in two weeks Pennsylvania will be in a lockdown as this Virus runs rampant once again. If Hershey happens PIAA might want to put an * on the whole season as a victim of this covid virus. God bless us all.

  457. New2PA says:

    D3: In 5A WPIAL, the majority view out here is that the P-R wins going away this Saturday for the WPIAL Championship. In the state semi’s it would be GM who I have seen play a couple times. They must be able to keep possession of the ball and take time off the clock. PR’s defense is very good, especially against one dimensional offenses. I do not see anybody stopping P-R’s offense. Too many weapons at QB and WR and a stable of RB’s behind a very good and big line. P-R’s team is probably best in school history behind the 2017 Jurkovec juggernaut. In the finals, I’d bet they play ECP as well, but ECP lost a ton of seniors last year and with Imhotep being out of the playoffs, that side of the bracket is a little easier.

    In 6A, PCC has done a very nice job getting things together as the season went along. Not one of their best teams, but they play hard. Also, relatively young. I think McDowell has a chance at home, but they can’t be scared. PCC will smell blood and smoke them. Not sure who is next, but as long as SJP is waiting at the end this year, a championship is not a realistic possibility.

  458. mark d says:

    i agree it a hard to get in to this season i do agree with the PIAA to hold a season and a playoff. But this season is not for the fans no one will really care who wins it all fact that the kids who work so hard got a chance to play is the real victory in all of this so let sit back relax and enjoy what we have

  459. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, I go to a game most weekend but haven’t been inside a stadium. Most places in Berks have chain link fences or nearby hills that overlook the fields. I stand at games anyways so it makes little difference to me. Between players, coaches, cheerleaders, bands, and parents there aren’t a lot of walk ups available, if any. I imagine it’s easier to get into a 1A/2A/3A that plays in a decent sized stadium. Most don’t have bands and obviously have smaller rosters and fewer parents.

  460. D3 Mike says:

    Sausmann, I agree that putting Berks in D11 would better balance D3 & D11 but it wouldn’t help with the state playoff structure as it would overload the “East” even more. Moreover, as much as I’d enjoy watching Wilson WL play Parkland in November instead of scrimmaging them in August, the move wouldn’t help either of them beat SJP / PCC / North Allegheny any more regularly — which is the current problem in 6A.

    Jeff, if I had to bet I’d say it’s Peters, Governor Mifflin, ECP (no disrespect to D1) the rest of the way for Pine Richland. Who (if anyone) gives them a competitive game? I’ve seen ECP play a few times over the years vs BC and Imhotep. Great coaching. Very balanced offense. I’ve heard this year’s team is on the younger side. Mifflin runs the veer with a number of D1 athletes at the skill positions. They’ve physically bludgeoned everyone on their schedule, including Wilson. If their o-line blocks even decently well they can put up a bunch of points on anyone. I’m concerned about their lack of balance, though, plus one of their better secondary players was ruled ineligible so I could see them struggling to contain Pine Richland. I know nothing about Peters.

    Between ECP and Imhotep moving up, TJ losing, and the Catholic schools being out of it, 4A looks like the most competitive class. Haven’t heard much chatter on here about it. Whom do we like in 4A? The WPIAL winner? Can TJ run with Aliquippa?

  461. Kevin X says:

    @ Dennis

    Don’t know if I’d go as far as using the term “junk” but I do hear and feel your frustration. Just hard to get motivated and involved in this season, especially for someone who has no horse in the race, dog in the fight. And knowing if you do, at any minute the rug can be pulled out from under you. Going to real interesting how the winter season is going to play out. I’m already resigned to the fact that the idea of heading out to attend a local hoops game in person is not going to happen for me this season.

    Question: Has anybody been able to attend a football game (or even a soccer or field hockey match) this fall as just a general member of the public, and not as a parent, media, employee, or some other connection or official capacity?? Have you been able to just walk up to the gate and get your ticket and enjoy a game in person?? I haven’t even tried down here in District 1, thinking other parts of the state might be more accommodating, welcoming and less restrictive.

  462. Jeff H. says:

    @Dennis Pasco – I have never been a fan of the PIAA, and have been highly critical of them at times, but I applaud their decision to ignore Governor Wolf’s recommendation and play football and all fall sports. As disjointed and disappointing as this season has been it’s certainly better than no football at all, I feel it would have been a tremendous disservice to the kids to not put protocols in place and try to proceed with the season.

    I went to the Gateway vs. Peters Township game on Friday night and was prepared to watch from outside the stadium and was pleasantly surprised when there were tickets available and got to watch from the 50 yard line in the stands and was treated to a tremendous high school football game. Gateway dominated the first half and lead 19-0 and score should have been worse, Peters took the 2nd half kickoff and went on an 80 scoring drive to make it 19-7, forced Gateway to punt and then scored again on the ensuing possession on a 33 yard highlight reel touchdown catch by Florida recruit Donovan McMillon to make it 19-13 halfway through third quarter.. Gateway had several chances to put them away, including missing 2 second half field goals, the last one a 32 yarder with 3 and half minutes to go in the fourth that would have put them up by 9 and Peters subsequently drove and scored the winning TD with 5 seconds to play on a 4 yard TD pass. Two very good high school teams playing their hearts out for the right to continue their season and play for a district championship next week and beyond.

    @Sausman9 – maybe ESS would have gone on a run in states, unfortunately we’ll never know, no disrespect meant to ESS but they would likely be the 5th best team in the WPIAL in 5A,behind the 2 teams mentioned above, Pine Richland and Penn Trafford.

  463. James Clews says:

    No respect for north schuylkill In any rankings. Most people back next year. Will be one of the top teams in AAA

  464. DENNIS PASCOE says:

    I have come to the conclusion this year’s football season is junk with all the covid crap. Just venting.

  465. oscar says:

    warwick FORFEITS d3 final to mifflin due to covid

  466. sausmann9 says:

    Nazareth from D11 6A is now back in the District playoffs per school district

  467. sausmann9 says:

    @JMAC – you got it bud and I still think ESS could have made a strong run into states. They are loaded with size and speed. Very similar to Gov Miff this season (props to you Langy!!!)

    @D3 mIke – the true issue/problem is the current make up of D3, D11, and D2. If you take D3 teams in Berks (lets say from Reading/Gov Miff/WWL/etcc) and move them into D11 w/ the Lehigh Valley teams (some Lehigh Co and some Northampton Co) this creates a really strong and competitive district. At this point, move the D11 Pocono teams north into D2. The western side of D3 can stay w/ the west side of the bracket/state but the east side of D3 would now be playing closer to home.

  468. D3 Mike says:

    I’d consider “a run” winning 2+ games, which depending on the year, class & bracket usually places a large district winner in Hershey. No one in D11-5A has ever done either (win two games or made the PIAA semi-finals, let alone made it to Hershey). And it’s not like the losses were competitive. Would ESS have produced different results this year? Maybe, but there’s no evidence for it.

    D11 made the right choice to give more kids an opportunity to play more games. Obviously, it stinks for the district winners. But people forget that for years only four district winners qualified for states. And in D3 it used to be 16 teams that made districts, not the 44 to which we’ve grown accustomed. I just feel as if people were going to complain no matter what the Governor, PIAA, districts, or schools did —because that’s what people do.

    Beyond that, I’d LOVE to switch it up from D3 playing the WPIAL in our first non-district game in the bigger classes. We couldn’t possibly do any worse. But there is no sensible way to put D3 in the East in the bigger classes and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or favorable brackets.

  469. Jmac says:

    @D3 Mike I don’t know how saying a school could make a run equates to going to Hershey. Number 1 though no Philly teams this year in 5A. Number 2 I don’t think they would contend in 5A with district 7 or district 3 teams, that’s a pretty good 5-6 teams in 5A. No D11 team was going to get to Hershey I agree, but I think what Saussman was referring to was getting the opportunity with such a good team and likelihood that in poconos a team that can win a district title and maybe win some state games in going to be very few and far between. District 7 plays the best football collectively in the state. Clearly the elite district 12 teams are special after that I would District 3 (although it is very curious how district 3 seems to year in and year our get a favorable bracket away from traditionally strong district 12 classes)

  470. David Mika says:

    JC….Nazareth has COVID-10 and withdrew from the playoffs.

  471. JC says:

    Now, ESS had to withdraw from the district playoffs because of COVID concerns. 2020 will forever be a what-if for this team if the season was normal.

  472. Kevin X says:

    Tonight’s D1 6A semi final, #4 Coatesville @ #1 Pennridge live Youtube stream link:

  473. JC says:

    A lot of talk about East Stroudsburg South lately. As an alum of the school, I felt the need to weigh in.

    ESS’s schedule this year was REALLY soft. The two other Monroe County programs that are usually solid, Stroudsburg and Pocono Mountain West, were in rebuilding years this year, so it’s impossible to say just how good they actually were. In a normal season, they would have played Northampton, Parkland, and Bethlehem Catholic (I believe), and we’d have a much better idea of just how good they are. As it is, we only know that they’re very good, probably one of the three best teams in school history, but there’s a lot unknown.

    However, the big loss for this program is not having the chance to make ANY sort of run, not just a deep one. East Stroudsburg hasn’t won a state playoff game in decades, maybe ever. While I doubt they would have seriously contended against the likes of Wood or D7, just making it to the point that Southern Lehigh made last year would’ve set a new high-water mark for the program. Even getting a shot against a team like Wood is not a chance this team gets often, and who knows the next time that chance will come around. I guess based on history one could guess sometime in the early 30s, but you can never truly tell.

    Of course, winning the D11 5A title is not a given. Southern Lehigh has given ESS trouble in the past, and Whitehall looks very solid this year. Either opponent would be the best team ESS has faced this year by far. So I’m glad they will at least have that chance to show how good they are (or are not).

  474. D3 Mike says:

    mcd 65 my bad, was thinking of the Penn Hills game from the year-prior

  475. Brian says:

    In regards to Southern Columbia to moving up for better completion in the regular season it doesn’t make sense. Last year they beat montoursville by mercy rule fashion and they were 3A and in the state quarterfinals losing to the eventual state champion Wyoming area who southern also played and mercy ruled. They also beat the 4A district champion jersey shore mercy rule who was in the state quarterfinals. Last years class was a once in a lifetime class and southern won’t see that type of team ever again probably. That group could’ve played up in class and won but the current team would nowhere be near competing with the likes of the 4A schools outside district 4. As someone stated earlier this team has a strong running game but lacks any passing threat. This is the year to knock off southern and it could happen in states if a team and slow down the running game. The defense has been good with the starters only allowing 3 points and no tds but again the schedule has been pretty easy. I look to see them get tested in states and if they return to Hershey the western team would definitely have a shot to beat them. If southern wins the state title this year you can expect them to win again next year. Young team again.

  476. mcd 65 says:

    Bonner/prendie and Neuman/Gorettti had solid chances to advance this year. I know BPhas one of their best teams in many years,too bad for them. D-3 Mike Wood won states 5A last year.

  477. Matt says:

    @D3 Mike….I agree about D11…..they all voted for districts playoffs and giving more teams a a chance to play playoff games than just taking one team per class based on points and sending them to the three week state modified tourney. This way they are taking 4-8 teams per class and have a three week district playoff (same three weeks as states). It’s just for this year obviously and because of the unprecedented times I think it was smart. I don’t think any D11 team would have made it to the state finals anyway this year. Nazareth is good, Parkland is always good, freedoms good but when they play Philly schools it’s mercy rule last ten years (except that Pakland year in 2015). ESS is very good but you’re right they wouldn’t stand much of a chance against a Philly school or WPIALschool.

  478. D3 Mike says:

    What is the “run” folks think ESS was going to make? Last year’s team lost by 17 to the team (Southern Lehigh) who got mercy ruled by the team (Archbishop Wood) who didn’t even make it out of the state semi-finals. The 2020 version would have lost by 50 points to Pine Richland if they hadn’t been trashed by another Eastern PA team on their way there.

    Some of you seem to live in bubbles and don’t grasp just how much better WPIAL and Philly metro football is than everywhere else, with the rare exception of a few perennial powers that suck up most of the talent in a 50 mile radius such as Cathedral and SCA.

    Governor Mifflin is the best 5A team I’ve ever seen play. I’ve been to 6 of their games over the past 2 years. Good kids. And if they make it to the state semi-finals they are going to get banged up by the WPIAL rep, and banged up badly. Don’t let fandom overwhelm common sense. D11’s call on the state playoffs was just fine. They did what was best for their kids and it cost them zero appearances in Hershey.

  479. Jmac says:

    @Sausman do you really think D11 dropped the ball? While it would be great for ESS to make a run. I don’t overall if it would have been the best decision. in 6A Parkland & Freedom would not have had a say in who got the bid, 5A ESS obviously, 4A okay you can make the case ACC as the top seed will most likely win and deserved to go to the state playoffs, 3A we would be leading some very good teams behind. You get all these teams to qualify and play for a championship is a good thing in my opinion. To basically decide the district champion and playoff spot off power points is not the way to go. Think about this with the power points system. 1 win Northampton got bumped out of the 6A playoffs for 1 win Pleasant Valley… I understand I am talking about 1 win teams making the playoffs but what if power rating affected something at the top and kept a loss team at home and put a 1 loss team in with the same disparity as the example I gave of the poconos v the valley. Either way they got to play and there was no right decision.

  480. Kevin X says:

    Add another team to the Covid list, Bonner-Prendie. They are out of their playoff game against D1’s Upper Moreland this weekend. And in true D12 fashion, they insert an 0-3 Archbishop Ryan to play in their stead. So a one win Neumann Goretti team was was scheduled to play this weekend and they are out, why couldn’t a much better 1-0 Cardinal O’Hara team, who beat Ryan 35-7, I believe, play UM instead of Ryan?? Or better yet, toss D12 aside and let PJPII play in a de Facto D1 4A championship game against UM. They deserve a chance to play more than anybody.

  481. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – as it has been for the last several yrs 5A is the deepest classification in the WPIAL, as there are 4 very good teams, but PR is in a class by themselves. They play a very solid Penn Trafford team this week and that game should be competitive for awhile, but PT is too one dimensional to beat them, I look for the final score to be something like 35-14. IMO PR is definitely the best team in the WPIAL this year in any class, as I think they would handle both North Alleghany and Central Catholic, who meet for the 6A title this Friday, winner of that game plays Erie McDowell next week and I think McDowell will be very competitive in that game and wouldn’t shock me if they won.

    Gateway plays Peters Township in the other semi-final in a rematch of the final from last year won by Gateway 21-20, Gateway has a lot of team speed and the best player in the WPIAL in Derrick Davis, but they have not been playing well since they were shutdown in late Sept-mid Oct for 3 weeks due to Covid, they went 4 weeks without playing a game, and since then they haven’t been close to the team they were last year or before the break. Peters is solid but not flashy, especially on defense, and well coached, earlier this year I would have thought Gateway would handle them, but that game is a tossup even though it is at Gateway. Either one of those teams would do well if they kept it within 2 TD’s against PR, that’s how much better PR is than the rest of the class this year, this is their best team since they beat SJP in 2017 with Jurkovec at QB.

    In 3A I agree with you Wyomissing is probably D3’s best shot at winning in Hershey, as I stated last week they look to be on a collision course with Central Valley, as they are on opposite sides of the bracket, CV has mercy ruled all 8 teams they have played thus far and it will likely be 9 after this weeks game against Keystone Oaks who they already crushed in the regular season, if that game comes to pass that may be the best state final of all 6 classes.

  482. mcd 65 says:

    I did not know about Neuman/Goretti with Covid issues. Too bad for them. They have a very solid team that I felt could go deep into the playoff if not all the way this year. Bonner/Prendie has a potent offense and should not have a problem in the first round with Upper Moreland IMO. Im looking forward to McDevitt /Dunmore this week. Not sure what Carrol has since NG beat them last week. The Prep should play their JV this week against Roman .

  483. mark d says:

    sorry last post i put @ philly i meant Kevin X mind is going

  484. mark d says:

    @philly Andy’s pizza it been while since i has had any and i live only a few miles away might have to get some for the Army Airforce game this weekend !!! that an interesting thought Valley View and Del valley you know i think both schools would be up for it

  485. sausmann9 says:

    What a shame for East Sroudsburg South. After looking at the 5A brackets, they had a great shot at a deep run.

    D11 dropped the ball on this decision to stay home for the playoffs for sure.

  486. Michael says:

    Neumann Goretti had a covid situation so they are not playing in that playoff game

  487. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    I think the “surprise” team in that list is Bonner. Think they have a decent chance on winning two games, and then getting beat by the WPIAL rep.

    Take N-G out of the picture. Another Covid issue at the school has them shut done. Insert ABC. No idea how Carroll got to play (but good that they are) after the brackets have been set. Wilson’s issues just gets more maddening. Why that is not a forfeit win for NHS, who knows, I guess District 12 plays by different rules. Odd poetic justice for N-G, playing only one game, I don’t think they had any business in the tournament, but them, along with Northeast and Imhotep out of D12 were 3 teams I was looking forward to seeing what they had this year.

    @ D2 guys

    Any chance or thoughts if Del Val gets knock out of the playoffs this week or next, maybe schedule a season ending game against Valley View?? That would be just really weird, but pretty cool. Also, kudos to Valley View for scheduling Malvern Prep. Hope they treat them to some Andy’s pizza.

  488. Foleman says:

    Michael, Neumann Goretti with only a few games under their belt will have to play a seasoned Wyomissing team with 8 games played. Wyo’s wing-t gives teams fits and I can’t see NG stopping it. NG is very talented, but Wyo has played many very talented teams in the past-Aliquippa, Imhotep and Berks Catholic and they have beaten them. Add in the Coaching factor, Wolfrum is probably one of the top 5 coaches in the State, he knows how to win big games.

  489. mark d says:

    @Neutral as i said depends who you talk to lot of finger pointing on this one . the last one i talk to was a parent of a player that the story i got from him a few week ago i talked to a local politician and i got the story you heard so who knows. as usual with the Valley View politics it the kids who suffer !!!!

  490. Neutral Observer says:

    @mark d:
    It’s funny, but I heard exactly the opposite. I heard from someone connected to the VV school board (so take the source into consideration) that the board was FURIOUS when the VV HC/AD ducked DV. The VV board was already getting a lot of heat just for even allowing the season to happen; a lot of people wanted them to shut down all fall sports. Then after the board stuck its neck out to allow the football season, the HC and AD decided they didn’t want to play DV. I do agree that VV has a nice, young team. I think the sophomore QB is going to be a nice college prospect in 2 years. I think the entire O-line returns as well.

    @Blakely Bear:
    LOL, good one. Clearly, there is a difference between VV scheduling a post-season exhibition game after missing the playoffs versus VV playing a top team in Week 1 when VV is still trying to make the playoffs. But still, good for VV for taking on the challenge of Malvern Prep. Maybe they learned something from the LIAA and D2 making them take a forfeit.

  491. mcd 65 says:

    PCL playoff reps D-12 / 6A st Joe Prep, 4A Bonner/Prendie, 3A Neuman/Gorretti, 2A Bishop McDeviit. Some pretty good talent that may surprise folks in a couple of classifications.

  492. mark d says:

    Valley View has a nice team but they are young real young.. I think their stepping out of their league playing Malvern but if you want to be the best you play the best i think it game to teach them where they have to be as for the Delaware Valley deal it depends who you talk to the Valley View coaches wanted to play that game the school board and a group of parents are the one who put stop to it that the last i heard

  493. Michael says:

    I’ll be surprised if Neumann Goretti doesn’t make it out to play CV in the finals, will be also be surprised if Coatesville doesn’t beat Pennridge

  494. David Mika says:

    Buddy….The Catholic League isn’t playing Public League. Whoever wins the league is in.

  495. Buddy says:

    Anything on the D12 brackets? Or do they have to play their PCL & PPL playoffs first?

  496. Blakely Bear says:

    Fact that VV chose to play Malvern Prep should put to rest the notion that they ducked Del Val because they were afraid to play them, for any other reason that they weren’t in football shape physically to play them, due to the Covid shutdown they experienced.

  497. D3 Mike says:

    @Kevin, considering that no team from York County has ever won 6A/4A in D3, anyone who tells you they saw this one coming is lying! William Penn is probably only the 6th or 7th best team in 6A in the district.

    Central Dauphin graduated too many of their top athletes last year to contain Central York. Had we had a normal regular season, that fact probably would have been revealed against Harrisburg or Wilson in September. As it stands, Central York is good (especially on offense) and should mercy rule the title game —but I really don’t think they’ll be able to run with the big boys in states.

    Speaking of mercy rule, look for Wyomissing to trash Middletown in the 3A title game amidst some bad blood. Middletown really beat up Wyomissing in the ‘16, ‘17, ‘18 playoffs en route to three straight trips to Hershey. Wyomissing won in the ‘19 district title game in a thriller and then last month (as rumors have it) Middletown ducked them to avoid suffering their 2nd loss and getting knocked from this year’s reduced playoff field. Wyo was very unhappy to lose another game for their seniors.

    I don’t think it’s close this weekend as Wyomissing is probably the district’s best bet to win in Hershey.

  498. David Mika says:

    I updated Class 2A….Just need 1A info

  499. David Mika says:

    Buddy…I just updated Class 3A, 4A, 5A and 6A brackets….Need some more information on Class 1A and 2A…

  500. Buddy says:


    Playoff brackets for D1 ?

  501. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H- well after the game Friday I truly believe Mcdowell has a very real shot at taking out whoever wins the WPIAL, they looked sharp. Erie Cathedral is a great team, but they aren’t quite as good as they were the last 5 years. That being said, they have a very talented freshmen and sophomore class and have several talented juniors so they will be back to their old form shortly. I think they still make it to the final four if not the state title game.

    As predicted Oil Citi crushed Harborcreek. Look for then to make some noise the next few weeks they are good. And for you eastern guys I was shocked that Central York crushed Central Dauphin. Don’t know much about teams from that area but I felt like CD was one of the tops teams in 6A, so to put up 40 on them is impressive.

  502. Kevin X says:

    So, Malvern Prep at Valley View this Friday night. Chalk another one up to 2020 and things you’d never expected to see…….

    Did Valley View find their beer muscles they seem to have misplaced at the beginning of the season now after beating Scranton Prep??

    Just a FYI, if you were not aware, Malvern Prep is a pretty good football team. Maybe even better than Western Wayne (tongue firmly planted in cheek). Lonnie White Jr. is a freaking beast.

    D2 thoughts??

  503. New2PA says:

    Pine-Richland has Penn-Trafford this week. Penn-Trafford’s only loss is their first game to Peters Twp, in which they had 6 turnovers and only lost by 3 points. I think this could be P-R’s toughest test in the WPIAL’s. Penn-Trafford has solid athletes and is very well coached. Gateway is not playing well. Peters is very solid, mainly on D. Not sure how well they can score though. Two great semi-finals games in 5A out here this week. If P-R is lucky enough to win, I think the best way for any team to have a good chance against P-R is to be able to run and throw the ball. Hard to be one dimensional against them and score enough points to keep up.

  504. Kevin X says:

    So how many of you D3 guys, or anyone else really for that matter, had a Central York/William Penn Championship game match-up in your D3 6A bracket?? 🙂

    @ mcd 65…….and only a junior and a PSU commit. They could have used him last night…….

  505. mcd 65 says:

    @ MikeA, I think their QB Pribula is definitely one of the best in the state. He can do it all.

  506. Mike A says:

    Central York may be the best team in the state not named SJP! They simply dominated Central Dauphin.

  507. Michael Smoll says:

    Just a Big Thanks to WFMZ’s BIG TICKET High School Football scores and Highlights, as always another great year of production. More needed than usual due to Covid Restrictions. Thanks

  508. Kevin X says:

    For all of you SJP, Wood, Catholic and private school lovers out there (lots of love on this site!!!), the St. Joe Prep @ Archbishop Wood game this afternoon (1p) should be live streamed (and archived for future viewing) at the following link:

  509. D3 Mike says:

    @Jeff, Both Mifflin and Warwick are very good teams and have 4-star, D1 talent. I think either could have won in Hershey last year as 5A seemed down a bit.

    The winner would be hurt by a weak schedule and minimal experience playing outside of district 3, though. The usual champ out of district 3 in that class (Manheim Central) typically plays the WPIAL winner competitively — but loses. I’ll expect more of the same this year but would love to be proven wrong.

    Haven’t seen Warwick yet but Mifflin, especially, is a wild card because they run the veer. I’m not sure how many programs run that out west. The veer also means Mifflin lack the balance you usually see from top teams in the bigger classes.

    Is it a foregone conclusion it’s Pine Richland? I know Gateway/Peters are also loaded.

  510. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul 34-Perkiomen Valley 22 The game wasn’t really that close as PJP had a 3 TD lead at halftime and cruised in the 2nd half. It looks like they wont get into the playoffs as their 1st game against Pottsgrove was rescheduled due to Covid, they are easily the best 4A team in District 1. What a shame these kids cant get a chance to show what they can do.

    Governor Mifflin looks unstoppable! This is the best 5A team I have seen in Berks County, I think they beat Warwick in the 5A finals.

  511. EmanD3 says:

    And Central York hangs a 40 burger on CD…yikes!!!

  512. EmanD3 says:

    Not a mis-print…CY just goes 95 on opening 2nd half KO…UP 27-9 over CD!!! CD in major trouble, two huge TO’s

  513. Jeff H. says:

    @NW PA – I think McDowell can be competitive with whoever wins the WPIAL, they would play in the quarterfinals in 2 weeks. In 5A Erie Prep is on the other side of the bracket and I agree there’s a good chance they will meet Pine Richland in Hershey, although I do think the D3 winner (Mifflin or Warwick) will give PR a decent game in the semi-finals.

    4A is pretty interesting in the WPIAL with TJ getting upset by McKeesport last week for their first home loss in 5 yrs, this TJ team is no where close the the team that steam rolled to the 4A title last year. Aliquippa is now the number one seed in WPIAL playoffs but they will be tested next week by solid Belle Vernon team, still expect TJ to meet Aliquippa in the WPIAL final in 2 weeks.

    As for 2A I think Wilmington will beat the WPIAL winner in the semi-finals which I suspect will be Beaver Falls, and in 3A looks like Central Valley is on a collision course to meet Wyomissing in Hershey.

  514. Kevin X says:

    Hey Buddy, the short version is the top 4 teams in their playoff rankings after this weekends games advance to the playoffs next weekend. Currently Spring-Ford, Pennridge, Soudy and C’Ville are the top 4. Interesting those 4 are the only 4 undefeated teams in D1 6A. So all may work out if those 4 win out. Pennridge hosts Abington tonight (streamed live on Pennridge Athletics Youtube channel) may be the toughest game for the top 4. Same situation and schedule with 5A, the top 4. A thru 4A unsure what they are doing.

  515. Buddy says:

    Is D1 having some kind of playoff? Anyone know the scenario ?

  516. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @mcd 65, There are very few backs that I’ve seen who are better than Garcia. I’ve been watching this game for a long time. He is on the small side (5-8″ 190) but his vision, cuts, hips, strength, balance and quickness are elite. I think he will do very well at the next level in a spread offense than can utilize his pass catching ability and get him into space.

    Overall in 2A it looks like the usual suspects, at least in the last few years. Wilmington/Farrell. Beaver Falls. Dunmore. Richland/BA. SCA. I’m not sure about District 1/12 or what D 3 has this season.

    Who can clarify the Harrisburg situation? Am I to understand that Harrisburg essentially tried to hide a + covid test?

  517. mcd 65 says:

    @ Coal Region,Garcia is a flat out stud running back. I watched his highlights and he is a very impressive player. I would be wary of Richland twp. Their QB can run and throw .They have a solid club and could be a challenge in AA. SC will still be a heavy favorite of course.

  518. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ NW PA
    SCA has a great running game, potentially the most talented backfield in school history. Everyone knows how talented Jr Gavin Garcia is. I believe he has offers from Bowling Green, Princeton, Penn – maybe others? Soph fb Wes Barnes has great strength/speed/balance. Soph hb Wisloski has the best top end speed on the team, he can absolutely fly. That said. SCA has next to no passing game and their best lineman, who would have played 2 ways, was ruled ineligible this season. They have played a weak schedule. They had some dandy games lined up this year with Wyoming Area, Berwick and Wyomissing – but Covid through a wrench in that and instead they played Warrior Run, Hughesville, and Lewisburg. These teams are not strong and SCA has largely been untested.

    Over the last 3/4 years MCA was top 3/4 in the state in AA. So having those games under their belt helped during playoffs. This year could be interesting. Hard to say what will happen. It could be Wilmington’s year.

  519. Irish1 says:

    @FrankG, don’t waste your time with that guy. He wouldn’t say a word if the catholic schools were going out and getting routed every week. I graduated from a small catholic school that played and often beat much bigger public schools a lot of the time. It was always funny to hear all the crying from people who followed the public schools that were three or four times larger in enrollment complain every year. The school I went to drew students just from the general area around the school,there was no open enrollment then. They won because they had great coaching and got the most out of the talent they got. Most of the catholic schools still do it that way. Some are in leagues out here in the suburbs and there are still some in the PCL who do it the old way too. Lumping all the schools in with SJP, Wood,etc is wrong,but you will never change that way of thinking.

  520. NW PA says:

    Big game on the shores of Lake Erie tomorrow as Erie Cathedral hosts Mcdowell. Look for Mcdowell to make some noise in 6A. Unless the brackets get flipped, Erie Cathedral should make it Hershey, but if they do get flipped, they would probably run into Pine Richland in the semis. I like Oil City to take out Harborcreek and make a nice playoff run in 4A but I think they loose to whoever comes out of the WPIAL. In 3A it’s a toss up between Hickory and Fort Lebouf, both have excellent teams this year, but I don’t think either gets by Central Valley. Wilmington is the team to beat in this area in 2A, but we’ve read this book and know how it ends……probably a loss in Hershey to S.C.

  521. FrankG says:

    What Egan did isn’t at all typical of the PCL. I can’t think of one instance where SJP or LaSalle, for instance, had a senior transfer and only a couple of instances where they had transfers at the start of junior year.

  522. Foleman says:

    Sausemann9, I think I can top your Egan Transfer story, look up the Maddock’s brothers-all 4 of them, they started out at lancaster Catholic, moved over to Bishop Shanahan, then over to Kutztown-(maybe the worst football program in PA) then transferred over to Fleetwood, that’s 4 schools in 4 years! They helped Fleetwood to their best record in a decade and into the District 3 playoffs. How in the world did district 3 rule these kids eligible to play right away without having to sit out any games? Their Dad went in front of the schoolboard and had a very popular coach fired…another story for another day.

  523. Paul from Philly says:


    “Here’s just another example of your beloved PCL teams “cheating” their way through a season:”

    It aint cheating if they play by the rules set up by the governing body, that being the PIAA! Talk to the PIAA. But I don’t think you’ll have much luck. “The love of money……….’!

  524. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Sausmann9 – Don’t waste your time.

    What would happen if Ohio State could recruit Nationally but the rest of the Big 10 could only recruit from their state? It is exactly what is happening in high school.

  525. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Eman D3 – Harrisburg knew on Monday they had a symptomatic athlete but tried to hide it. They did not take that player along to State College on Monday afternoon.

    I am told by a D3 representative that several members are furious that Bohannon is not listening to them and may speak out publicly.

    D3 top leaders are a bunch of old grumpy guys trying to feel powerful. You took a role as a public servant of student athletes. It is not about YOU!!!!!!!

  526. sausmann9 says:

    more time I won’t get back but again here’s your lesson on the day.


    I stated very clearly I didn’t reread the articles, I attached one of three and told you either bit of info was imbedded. you do your own homework and I don’t give two craps if you take my word for it or not. Prep doesn’t deserve to play in the PIAA just like all other privates and parochial that can pull a much needed player when needed.

    Here’s just another example of your beloved PCL teams “cheating” their way through a season:
    Conwell Eagan 2017. Crappy 5-6 record coming into round 2 of playoffs knowing full well they were about to run Into a very good public school who was about to embarrass them on their own field. What does Eagan do? They accept on their team and suit up a 6’4″, 250 lb lineman who was an absolute difference maker on both sides of the ball in the game.
    Funny thing was the ignorant responses from the AD’s at both parochial schools stating the transfer was not athletic intent, lmoa. No but the kid showed up on a Monday and was suited up for Eagan by Wednesday’s practice.

  527. EmanD3 says:

    So word on the street in D3, from various, reliable sources. The committee found out that Hburg had a Covid case 15 MINUTES have 6A brackets were supposedly finalized…and they refused to budge and put Wilson in to fill the slot. What a nasty way to treat 17 yo hs kids that have been busting their hump the last 3 months. Pennlive sportswriters and even Hburg players were asking the committee to reverse their decision and they refused. They let Hburg play 3 games in 10 days, but put the hammer down about this situation.

  528. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy

    No, H-burg season wasn’t done. They already had 2 or 3 future games scheduled. They (and anyone else not in, or eliminated from the playoffs) could schedule games right up to Thanksgiving Saturday. The rally cry went from “Let us Play,” to “We are going to do anything we need to do within the system to get into the Playoffs.”

  529. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    I grew up in NEPA and graduated from a D2 high school. I still have friends and family in the area and other ties/connections.

  530. Kevin X says:

    Not sure what is more entertaining at the moment, watching the daily dysfunction of District 3 or all of the fun facts of Philly area zip codes……..

  531. Paul from Philly says:

    @Sausmann. My point about the zip codes was you already have 87 in Philly. If you just go out to the surrounding suburbs and South Jersey you’ll pick up another 200 say. That’s what I meant about the zip codes. Who looks “upidstay” now??

  532. Foleman says:

    It keeps on getting crazier in District 3! Harrisburg, one day after qualifying for the playoffs is out of the playoffs DUE TO CORONA! District 3 stated since the playoff brackets were already set York High receives a forfeit and automatically goes to the Final! Wilson screwed again! Unbelievable! Also, Bishop McDevitt petitioned District 3 to extend the playoff points to next week in 5A and 4A since the playoffs wont start until November 6, District 3 Chairman Doug Bohannan denied the petition.

  533. David Mika says:

    Wow…I go to work come home and now Harrisburg isn’t playing,…..

  534. Mike A says:

    Harrisburg football team out of District 3 playoffs following positive COVID-19 case, district says

  535. Paul from Philly says:

    @Sausmann9. So where did it even mention the states? We’re just supposed to take your word on that?? And the 172 zip codes?? As I mentioned earlier there are 87 zip codes just in Philadelphia alone. I’m not a prepster but I do get tired of this argument. If you have a beef, take it to the PIAA. They were happy enough to take the Prep’s money!!

  536. EmanD3 says:

    Word on the street is that Harrisburg in now out, due to a Covid case..must quarantine until 11/5…Wow!

  537. FrankG says:

    @Irish1 I’d love to see that happen, but what made the Thanksgiving morning games great was the presence of large crowds. I went to the SJP-Roman game from ’59 to ’70–probably never fewer than 5,000 fans. Obviously this year schools would have to rely on live streaming. The larger question is whether the traditions can be re-established after at least 12-15 years. We never wondered whether we’d go; it was just understood that we’d go, whatever the weather, which was sometimes awful.

    @sausmann9 The article said nothing about four states. I’ve been in pretty close touch with the Prep over the decades and can’t remember one student who lived in MD. As for DE, I can think of two families, one of which moved to Northern DE from Philly just as the son (who was a good football player) was about to begin high school. The other family lived in DE when the son went to the Prep for a year, but they then moved to South Jersey and the son (who showed great football potential) transferred to a public school there. There may have been a few other students from DE over the decades, but most years there have been none.

  538. sausmann9 says:

    I don’t know what I’m talking about and yet I still make Paul from Philly look stupid, lmao. 87 zip codes in Philly which means the other 40 zip codes are outside of Philly you goof. Ie. NJ, MD, De, and the surrounding suburbs OUTSIDE philly.

    I DID NOT mention Virginia, I DID NOT mention Connecticut, NOR DID I mention.New York. You did in a futile attempt to make someone like bad and once again it backfires, lol.

    I’d really be curious as to how you actually think you know there are no kids from those other states??? Fact is; YOU DON”T!

    Truth hurts, sorry. Try again somewhere else.

  539. Irish1 says:

    Just a thought, but since many deserving teams wont have a chance to go to the playoffs,and since teams are allowed to play until thanksgiving why not step back in time and play some thanksgiving morning games. It would be a nice reward for having to go thru all things covid. Im sure people will come up with a thousand reasons why this cant happen, but I just thought it would add some fun to whats been a dreary year.

  540. sausmann9 says:

    not sure if this has the states mentioned or the zip codes mentioned but the states are PA, NJ, DE, and MD. I cannot name all the zip codes tho, sorry.

  541. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Sausmann9. There are 87 zip codes just in the city of Philadelphia. Do the math.

  542. Paul from Philly says:

    @ Frank G. Sausmann9 does not know what he is talking about. SJP does not have any players from any states other than New Jersey, PA and as you mentioned only a few through the years from Delaware. No Maryland, no New York, Connecticutt or Virginia. He makes the same arguments about all PCL sports. Swimming, Lacrosse, etc. Gets old after a while.

  543. mark d says:

    @kevin x no you were correct seems you have a better handle on what going on around here than i do .Now they can play the fall sports but all the winter sports are suspended ?

  544. phillyboy says:

    I don’t see what the problem is with Harrisburg. They needed to procure a fourth game asap or call it a season, right? So their coach hustled up and took care of business. As far as Micah Parsons incentivizing State College to play the game — impressive generosity, loyalty and yes, community support. I actually think SC deserves two pats on the back and an attaboy as well, for being good sports to a desperate Harrisburg. If they got a few bucks out of it, all the better, a win-win deal all around. The way phillyboy sees it, Harrisburg has stepped up their game in recent years, taken the program to another level. That’s what’s up.

  545. D3 Mike says:

    The D3 process sucked this year. Blame COVID. Seriously, the D3 administrators did about the best they could do, IMO. And yes, the last-minute 10/26 game hurt Wilson, who probably has the third-best team in the district in 6A and deserves to be playing next weekend (I’ll spare non-D3 people my rant about the joke which is the York league). That said, literally no one on earth who has seen both Wilson and Harrisburg play (and yes, through the chain-link fences in West Lawn and West Reading, I’ve seen both) would argue that Wilson is the better team – and that includes Mrs. Dahms. The process was sub-ideal, but at the end of the day, any D3-6A playoffs that didn’t include Harrisburg would have been illegitimate. They might be the 2nd best team in PA.

    I echo LL-Berks Guy’s plaudits for Berks Catholic. Their AD (Bill Hess) runs the program like all ADs should – with the best interest of his players and the sport, itself, in mind.

  546. EmanD3 says:

    Shame on State College coaching staff and AD for making 16&17 year olds play in the cold, wind and rain…3 days after they lost in the D6 playoffs…41-0, 8 min left in 4th. What a joke that was. Everyone knew this was going to be a lay down game for Hburg. I’m glad D3, Micah Parsons and Harrisburg feel good about playing the system to a T. A lot of respect lost for HB and SC across the state for this one. Twitter exploding today!

  547. Kevin X says:

    @ LL – Berks Guy

    Damn dude, they only thing you forgot in your post was a virtual mic drop at the end!!! 🙂

    For those of you who did not see Mr. Parsons tweet:


    Help the harrisburg cougars!! I was once in these kids shoes I don’t know where I would be without playing football for the cougars !Someone give these kids an opportunity! I’m willing to make donation to any school who does!! #letthekidsplay #1k

    I suppose the State College Area School District could use some x-tra $$$ to help offset the 14 million plus they just spent on stadium renovation.

  548. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 Can you send a link to where you saw that SJP gets students from four different states. In my experience, while it has always had many students from south Jersey, it’s never had more than one or two at a time from Delaware, and I’ve never heard of a student from another state. The 172 zip codes seems a bit high. Do you have a link for that too?

  549. LL - Berks Guy says:

    Need to get some visibility on the hypocrisy and cowardice of the D3 committee and select schools….. As well as recognition to those schools that played tough games knowing it would greatly reduce their playoff chances.

    LL League – Great job adjusting the schedule to make everyone play as many games that they could. Most notably moving Wilson – Township game and Cocalico – Warwick games earlier in the schedule. This insured a league champion but did cost Township and Cocalico playoff bids. But it was the right thing to do.

    Berks Catholic – Much respect for scheduling Harrisburg knowing it would cost you a district bid in 4A.

    Manheim Township – You played Lasalle the first game and almost pulled it off. You could have looked for an easier game or not even played and you might have made the playoffs. Good job Coach Evans!

    I know there are other schools that played tough games and did not try to play the system. Sorry for missing you but feel free to add to the list.

    York – Adams – Bad job avoiding Central York – William Penn game so both teams could make the playoffs. Both of your teams will lose by 40…… but you served your purpose.

    Harrisburg – Most importantly this was all a product of the School Board. But after they changed their mind this was all caused by the D3 Committee allowing this charade to occur by allowing them to select their opponents to reach the required power points after every other school had their schedule set.

    State College- Shame on you! This game is a farce and is essentially a JV game. There are Tweets confirming communication amongst SC parents saying as much. There is nothing about this game that represents life lessons, fair competition or in the spirit of the game. For those that do not realize – SC was eliminated from D6 playoffs with a loss to Altoona Friday 10/23 and felt it was justified to play another game on Monday 10/26????????

    McCaskey – What are you doing scheduling a game against Harrisburg? You have lost 25 straight LL games and get blown out by the worst teams in the LL…… Yet your coach said this game was a “measuring stick”. You didn’t even get a first down in the game!!!!!! What are you measuring???? There were plenty of other schools that you could have been competitive against. The optics have the appearance that a favor was given.

    Camp Hill – Cancelled a game against Middletown (they would have lost) that would have knocked them out of AA bracket. This prevented Columbia from making AA playoff. Cocalico could have done the same thing against Warwick and they would have made the 4A playoffs. But they did not!!!

    District 3 Committee – Shame on YOU!!!!!

    Micah Parsons – Offered money to any school willing to schedule Harrisburg. He tweeted it. Not a rumor. Let that sink in.

    Reporters who are not reporting the facts – Shame on YOU!!!!!! – Remember the players at the other schools are kids too.

  550. Matt says:

    @Sausmann….also ND green pond has a very good team in 3A…..and they would make it if D11 went to state playoffs right after regular season. N. Schuylkill would be the top seed team. Parkland and Freedom would not make it in 6A unless d11 had a playoff. Nazareth is top seed in 6A. Too many good team would not have made state playoffs in D11.

  551. Matt says:

    @Sausmann…yeah but I agree with d11… take one team based on points and Crown them d11 champs just to take part in the modified state playoffs this year was crazy for D11…..letting team fight in out in d11 and allowing more d11 teams play more games was a good decision. Next year obviously they are going back but in this unprecedented season that was the right move. Plus without Philly teams and D11, and teams like Wilson WL not getting in, will this really be the same feeling of state playoffs?

  552. JFF says:

    @ James Clews – Nobody is saying SCA “has” to schedule better opponents…anybody on here understands the scheduling difficulty they face as 4A+ schools have more to lose than gain playing a AA school. So you want to fancy yourself as a big dog, then jump over the fence to the big dog run. Being 3 or 4A makes non-conference scheduling more palatable, and anybody ducking is forced to contend with SCA some playoff time. Mercy ruling your way through the AA field again wows nobody. And stop with the “playing a team with more state titles” bit. A) They’re a league rival. B) Jazz & Whitey aren’t prowling that sideline anymore. You and the rest of the SCA fan body want respect outside of your little bubble, then play up like Aliquippa or Wood….and get your respect. Or just keep bleating on here about how you’re afforded none.

  553. David Mika says:

    sausmann9…I agree with you. They had a chance to do well in the playoffs. They are a fun team to watch and can score anywhere on the field.

  554. sausmann9 says:

    @matt – its ashame D11 opted out of playoffs. East Stroudsburg South has a really nice team that could have made some noise in 5A.

  555. mcd 65 says:

    Kevin X, I think McDevitt may be a year or two away from having a team that gets to the semi finals or beyond. They are very very young and they lost 2 incredible players to transfers to Northeast 2 years ago . Both are seniors this year ,one comitting to Penn State and the other to Old Dominion. This is another issue with open enrollment that teams deal with.

  556. sausmann9 says:

    I’ll keep this as easy and basic as possible.

    This seasons St joes prep team IS NOT a once in a. generation thing for them. For any public school in PA to have this talent; YES but not Prep. You forget not too long ago they had Reid, Runyan, and Swift. All all-Americans and all w/ a football pedigree.

    Here is a clip of an article from this week. SJP has 172 different zip codes at their school and four different states are represented. How could anyone with any brains whatsoever think a school like this should be competing against public schools w/ two zip codes ie Bethlehem or Easton???

    Prep not the only school w/ a multitude of zip codes but they do have the most. Becahi had 11 at one point last season.

    St Joes Prep, “The school, which is located along Girard Avenue in North Philadelphia, draws students from around the region with 172 different zip codes represented by students in ninth to 12th grades.”

  557. mcd 65 says:

    @ James c, No one is saying So Columbia has to move up, they are saying SC is better consistently than their current competition in their league . All seem to agree they are a great program like Wood and Alliquippa were in their respective leagues . Those two moved up to play better competition instead of beating the same calibre teams that were not their equal. Bottom line to me is SC can stay as they are and continue their dominance or take on new challenges. Either way they are as good as it gets in AA .

  558. Matt says:

    @Eman and Foleman…..this is exactly why Dist 11 went to just districts this year. Since PIAA moved to a condensed playoff, dist 11 wouldnt be able to even run a playoff and get a district champ. They would have had to take one team from all classes based on points…..leaving out all the rest. This way they play a three week district playoff and then end season by Thanksgiving. Gives 8 teams in AAAAAA, AAAA, AAA, and AA and 4 teams in A and AAAAA. Let’s teams atleast play for a district championship this season. It passed by all schools when the voted to skip state tourney and just play a district playoff.

  559. EmanD3 says:

    They sure did. Wilson wins 5 of 6, only loss to an undefeated, 5A team, ranked 5th in the state…Hburg gets in, even if they only have 3 wins?? Word on the street is that Wilson gets screwed even with a HB loss..Seems like BS to me…plus undefeated Hershey gets screwed as well….4, 5 and 6A should have had 8 teams qualify

  560. Foleman says:

    Looks like Harrisburg found a game for Monday-2-2 State College

    Hburgh wins and Wilson gets bounced out with the 2 York teams, with the easiest schedules in 6A making it in.

    My God, did District 3 screw this up! No McDevitt, No Wilson, No Berks Catholic!

  561. James Clews says:

    Why does southern have to schedule better opponents? The problem is district 2 and district 1 and district 12 people believe that there schools are so much better than anyone else. Having mount Carmel alone on there schedule probably brings them in to playing a team with more state titles than anyone anybody else plays in aa. What it is you fans, lol, of southern want is for them to schedule teams they are not going to beat. They played and beat the AAA state champ last year. Scheduled mountoursville and a school from South Carolina. There a god damn AA school, what else do you want. Believe me district 3’s double aa schools are not world beaters. And I got news for you when bishop McDevitt was at its best and recruiting everyone they couldn’t beat one of those mediocre mt. Carmel schools that southern plays

  562. David Mika says:

    Which team is looking?

  563. Elliott T says:

    Does anyone have an opening this weekend? 10/30?

  564. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd 65

    You can add Germantown Academy to your list of non boundary schools. Heck, you can even maybe make the case for St. Joe Prep and Roman as well. And Springfield Township as far as publics go.

    You do realize that there is a very good chance that McDevitt and Southern Columbia will be meeting up in the 2A state semi finals later in November?? On the other hand, the Debbie Downer in me has this whole tournament imploding at some point……

    @ Jerry S.

    I thought about that possibility a few times myself. Makes a hell of a lot of sense in my book. Play as a club sport if need be.

  565. EmanD3 says:

    Why was the Wyomissing/Southern Columbia game canceled a few weeks ago…Covid? That would have been interesting!

  566. Jerry Springer says:

    Two teams in two weeks have broken losing streaks (Shenandoah Valley and Holy Redeemer).

    Speaking of competitiveness why don’t these teams that struggle year in and year out for example Kutztown, Holy Cross, Holy Redeemer, Shenandoah Valley, ColumbiaMontour Tech, and other programs just play eachother in their own conference sort of like that “all American” conference back in the day. Let these programs play eachother in competitive games and build there programs to the point where they can compete in their respective leagues. I’m sure they are other teams I failed to mention too.

  567. mcd 65 says:

    D-3 Mike, Very well put, agree 100%. SC has a great program run by a great coach playing sub-par competition. Its a nice feeling knowing that your High school will get ALL the athletes in your community. I laugh when the open enrollment thing pops up as it relates to my old HS McDevitt D-12 which is a AA team. That school resides in the center of LaSalle, Imhotep,Archbishop Wood ,and Northeast all non boundry schools as well as cheltenham and Abington in their immediate backyard. Lots of choices for good athletes to attend. BTW they opened up with 6 -A Wood and just played 4A Pottstown. They typically play tough non league opponents year after year . SC should play up imo.

  568. D3 Mike says:

    @James C – People do not hate Southern Columbia in this forum. People respect the program — and respect it a lot.

    It is mostly a difference of opinion as to what one views as the purpose of amateur athletics and one’s conception of sportsmanship. Granted, SCA has tried to schedule better regular season opponents the past few years, but it still comes down to this: Mercy-ruling 13-14 teams each year is not sporting; it is sub-optimal for the kids involved (on both sides); and it does not prepare SCA’s better players as well for the next level.

    Just my opinion. But I actually think it is sad that some of these kids go 45-0 and never get to play in a competitive game. They are missing out on some of the memories and life lessons that many of us garnered from high school football.

  569. D3 Mike says:

    We’ve got undefeated teams not making the playoffs here in D3 (power rankings still unofficial). That includes Harrisburg, who is probably 1a or 1b in the district at 6A and Bishop McDevitt, who might be the best team in the state in 4A. But that’s 2020 for you.

    Best Semi-Final Game: Central Dauphin vs Wilson
    Best District Final: Warwick vs Governor Mifflin

    6A: Central Dauphin
    5A: Warwick
    4A: Lampeter
    3A: Wyomissing
    2A: York Catholic
    1A: Steelton

  570. Kevin X says:

    @ CoalRng

    A partial My Bad with regards to my Quip quip. Technically, i suppose he is correct about forcing a team to move up just because they are too good. I forgot about the asinine transfer requirement/clause that would trigger a forced move-up based on the current success factor rule.

    Also, Imhotep and Catherdral Prep were required to “Play-up” this 2-year cycle. Those are the ones that I am aware of. Kind of a moot point for Imhotep as they aren’t playing this season. Wood, ‘Tep and Aliquppa are actually being required to play-up 2, or in the case of Aliquippa, 3 enrollment classifications (in my opinion).

    @ mark d

    I saw something earlier in the week about Lakeland going all “virtual” and by that all athletic and extra curricular activities were being put on hold until Oct. 30th or something like that. Maybe I read it wrong, or it was reported incorrectly, or something changed since I saw it, but good to see that they are playing tonight, and for hopefully the rest of the season, whatever that may be. Should be a good game.

  571. James Clews says:

    What they seem to think is southern should play up in class as far as they can until they r not good anymore. Yes that’s a wise decision. That’s what I would do.

  572. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ Kevin X – Not sure I follow what you are saying regarding the Quips. They voluntarily played up to AA so as to maintain their long term rivalries as the student body of Aliquippa decreased. Based on the new PIAA guidelines, success points + transfers, Aliquippa, like Farrell was forced to move up.

    I believe James C was responding to Foleman’s statement about Southern remaining in AA. Apparently Foleman believes there should be rules for all schools except Southern, and then rules for Southern. Southern should move up ‘just because they are good’. Southern obviously did not meet the transfer minimums to require a move to AAA. Maybe Lombardi can enact a Southern rule and just push them up a couple classes? It’s worth a shot, shoot the PIAA an email and let them know your thoughts.

    I believe Wood also voluntarily played up to AAAAA and was forced to AAAAAA due to the new rules. Are those the only 3 schools that bumped up this past cycle due to the new rules?

  573. mark d says:

    @ Kevin x Lakeland is hosting Dunmore tonight. it the times game of the week i heard nothing about Lakeland suspending anything ?

  574. The Joneses says:

    @ James C the same statement you make about Southern “People hate….) Can likely be said to Prep. I believe people stopped just playing for their district when they realized there is something better that what for it, also has a better academic offering than their district as well. Not to mention the other offerings most Catholic schools have to groom young boys into better young men (service opportunities, etc). No one lives in a vacuum anymore. You can argue for competitive balance in the PIAA and hate the move up rule. It’s the same logic people use to want to force SJP out of the PIAA.

    @Foleman S Philly guy myself.. I remember those Frankford Teams. I was at BOK being eliminated from the playoffs by Frankford.

  575. Kevin X says:

    @ James C

    Response to your last sentence: Allquippa. Now you have.

    Response to your second to last sentence: No they don’t and I would never ever have, or want, my old high school (a mid size Pennsylvania public boundary school) to be Southern Columbia.

  576. Paul from Philly says:

    @Foleman. That was a clear, concise history of the Philadelphia situation. Short and sweet. And very true! Well said.

  577. James C says:

    You people r a joke on here. Southern didn’t move up because they didn’t have to. With the rules set in place they didn’t have to. St. Joes prep can’t be and shouldn’t be compared to any public school and no public school should even play them. The problem today is to many parents control three kids sport lives. What happened to playing for the district you lived in and if you didn’t play there you went to the local catholic school. People hate southern on here because they want there school to be southern and there not. Never heard of forcing someone to move up because there to good against teams of equal size

  578. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    The Twitterverse is in full campaign mode trying to get Harrisburg a game.

    A trip out to Wexford this weekend would be awesome. Yet Pittsburgh Central Catholic appeared to available last weekend, but somehow Harrisburg ended up playing a winless and overmatched McCaskey team.

    My solution: Have Wilson W-L move their game this weekend against Hempfield to sometime in November, and pit H-Burg and WWL in basically a 6A D3 play-in game. Settle this on the field, not by computer/power rankings.

    Second solution: Have SJ Prep cancel their game against what appears to be an overmatched, second year squad from Ohio (save them a trip), and hook up with The Prep.

  579. mcd 65 says:

    If Harrisburg cant find a game it will be a loss for D-3 for sure. It sure seems that there were many teams looking for games . Can this site provide some options for them ? I understand North Allegheny is open this week. Make a call !!!!

  580. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, if Harrisburg can’t find a game this Friday or Saturday, they are out of the District 3 playoffs and it looks like they won’t find one. They tried to pick a game up with LaSalle but it didn’t work out, so it looks like Central Dauphin, (Central York, William Penn-2 schools that never do squat in the playoffs) will get in along with Wilson. Harrisburg gets shut out and I believe they are the best team in District 3 6A Berks Catholic wont make it in 4A and they are easily 1 out of the top 4 teams, ELCO could make it in if they win on Friday, don’t remember them doing anything in football , 5A is really interesting, a couple of Undefeated teams-Hershey and Mechanicsburg might not make it in the top 4 yet 1 loss Waynesboro could make it in.

  581. Foleman says:

    Phillyboy, as someone who grew up in the NE and anyone on this board that grew up in Philly 30-40-50+ years ago remembers how good the Catholic and Public schools were across the board in football. Frankford HS and Central had some powerhouse teams on the Public Side, the Catholic School talent base was spread out. I remember Cardinal O’Hara snapping CB West 55 game win streak at War memorial in 1989.Then things started changing in the Late 80’s and 90’s when many long time NE Families starting moving to the Suburbs and S. Jersey draining the talent pool in football, Many schools closed, Philly got a lot poorer. The NE where many grew up is unrecognizable today. Add in the Charter schools, where much of the Public School football talent seems to wind up at one school and you can see why the Philadelphia football talent pool winds up at basically a handful of schools. Judge and Ryan are down to about 700 kids, they used to have 700 in a class! Prep and LaSalle were always the top 2 schools academically in the Catholic League, I can’t blame anyone in Philly…..or S. Jersey for wanting to send their kids there.

  582. hef says:

    Here are the D3 standings as of today: So in answer to your question, yes…even if they play a poor team they would probably knock Wilson out of the playoffs…..Wilson plays Hempfield (3-2) this week

    1 Central Dauphin 4- 0- 0 0.750893 1.000000 0.446429 5.00 7.50 0.00 9.30
    2 Central York 5- 0- 0 0.728085 1.000000 0.395745 5.75 9.30 0.00 14.20
    3 William Penn 5- 0- 0 0.728085 1.000000 0.395745 5.85 9.30 0.00 14.20
    4 Wilson (3) 4- 1- 0 0.698456 0.854701 0.507491 5.00 13.55 0.85 13.15

    16 Harrisburg 3- 0- 0 0.812752 1.000000 0.583893 3.55 8.70 0.00 6.20

  583. Kevin X says:

    @ Neutral Observer

    Looking like D2 3A is working itself out, in an unfortunate way. Lakeland football on hold for a few weeks, or season done?? Lake Lehman beat Wyoming Area, they have a few losses now. Prep took care of Western Wayne fairly handily, so I’d take WA and WA out of the picture. Now looks like Lakeland will be out of the conversation as well. Stinks that Lakeland and Prep could’t meet up like L-L and WA did earlier.

    @ Any D3 folks (or anyone else)

    You guys have any thoughts on the D3 6A playoffs and Harrisburg’s situation?? It may change by the time this gets posted, but they are frantically looking for a 4th game by Monday to qualify for the D3 6A playoffs. Do they deserve a 4th game in a short window just to qualify?? Does it matter who that game may be against?? Will it push another team out who may be just as deserving (or maybe more) of a playoff spot?? Then again, my option is they and CD are the two best 6A teams in D3 (and the state for that matter) and it would be a deserving D3 championship game.

  584. Foleman says:

    WOW! The hits keep on coming due to Covid! The Lakeland School District voted to move to virtual learning and suspend all athletics after October 28th. This would mean the No. 3 ranked Chiefs won’t be able to play in the post-season.

  585. phillyboy says:

    I can understand Sausmann’s sentiments regarding SJP, especially since his beloved D11 has to face them in the first round of states every year. Do all the most talented players have to go to that one program? The stand out WR going to Ohio State actually started at LaSalle — the gravitational pull to go to the Prep is too strong to resist apparently. Ryan, Judge, and Roman have had strong programs for decades, be nice if the talent could be spread around a bit. Notwithstanding Prep’s ascendancy, totally agree with FrankG, there really aren’t any elite public programs anymore in SE PA. The PCL’s entry into the PIAA probably exacerbated this. For a big public school to go toe to toe with Super Prep 25 caliber teams, it almost requires Georgia or Texas-like community support. As a dyed-in-the-wool Northerner, I wish that were the case, it is what it is. The WPIAL is the closest thing we have to that.

    The GEICO state champion bowl series is something Prep perhaps should consider. Playing St. Thomas Aquinas or some team like that could be their chance at a national title (#1 ranking).

  586. Mgguy says:

    Congratulations to Shenandoah Valley on their win. Kids hung in and got a big win for the school and community

  587. Jeff H. says:

    @Paul from Philly – those of us that follow HS football are well aware how good SJP is and knew they were loaded this year, they have a once in a generation senior class with several kids who will likely be playing on Sundays in the future, its no secret they are at least 3-4 TD’s better than any other school in the state, public or private.

    I took the 2 hour drive to Altoona to watch SJP-PCC in the state semi-finals last year and was treated to a fantastic game, didn’t matter that it was between 2 private schools, if you’re a high school football fan there’s no way you couldn’t appreciate that game, and I don’t particularly like either team, as a Woodland Hills guy we don’t like PCC, and neither does most of the rest of the WPIAL, but that was a great game.

    @Foleman – totally agree it was a joke the PIAA didn’t force So Columbia to move up, they forced Aliquippa up to 4A after they had already been playing up voluntarily for decades, and guess what So Columbia fans, they are 6-0 competing against schools 3x their size and will likely face TJ in the WPIAL 4a finals between 2 of the most storied programs in the WPIAL, if not the state. I’m just hoping the WPIAL allows some neutral fans like myself to attend what would be a classic matchup.

    @Frank G – agree with everything you stated, well put.

  588. Paul from Philly says:

    @Frank. Well said!!

  589. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G I always like you posts man. It’s sad how people would wish ill will to the children playing and relying on playing football this season at SJP. What I’d like to know is why all the hatred of SJP now. They ALWAYS has players from NJ because hey ALWAYS drew students from NJ. Frank G pointed out the PIAA new this when they allowed them. It was pubic knowledge. People only whine about it now because they have been consistently winning. Pine Richland showed if you build a strong program you can beat them. LaSalle did the same. We can’t miss what @ Foleman just posted about S Columbia, but that has always drawn crickets. I want people to stop looking at SJP is if its not “fair” they are in the PIAA. It is. If you go off the meaning of the word. Fair in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate. or without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage. You can just as many talented football players who reject the prep because they want to beat them as you can find players who want to be a part of it. Marvin Harrison wasn’t recruited to SJP. We all know the Kyle McCords of the world don’t fall at any HS in this area often. I would argue the LB Carter at LaSalle is just as impactful as Trotter, but since he is not from NJ well who cares right. One could argue SJP is better representative of “community” than any other school in the area because they have a student body comprised of young men coming from more zip codes than any other. Student body.. not just football.

  590. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Two honorable mentions I would add to your post, is how Aliquippa, a “A” school by male enrollment this cycle, is now playing up at the “4A” level. Second, is that Imhotep, a “3A” via current male enrollment figure this cycle, without even winning a championship the past two years, is now required to play up at “5A.” I still trying to wrap my head around that logic.

  591. Foleman says:

    The biggest joke in PIAA history was allowing S. Columbia to stay in AA after outscoring their playoff opponents in 2019 by a score of 352-56 which included a 74-7 blowout in the finale, yet they made several of the private schools move up in class. I can’t imagine the pushback if St Joe Prep beat a team by 67 points in the State Championship

    Southern Columbia football:

    PIAA State Champions AA 2019, 2018, 2017, 2015 Add in another one for 2020
    PIAA State Champions A 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 1994

    @FrankG – I’ll be the first to say I am glad this season was derailed for the one very specific reason; not seeing a recruited-up NJ/PA all=star team unnecessarily beat up on good, hard working public school/community teams. They have no business being part of the PIAA or our playoffs. Easy as that!

  592. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 Of course if the season goes ahead there’s a good chance SJP wins the 6A championship again. I’m sure you didn’t mean to suggest that the SJP players and the players on other non-public teams are not hard-working, that a non-public team can’t be a community, though a different kind of community, team, or that the playoffs belong to public schools (“our playoffs”).

    I can see how some schools’ ability (because of their reputations and locations) to draw students from out of state could seem to many as an advantage that should disqualify them from participation in state playoffs. But–correct me if I’m wrong– my understanding is that 1) the fact that some PCL schools, especially SJP, had many students from Jersey was well-known when the PIAA agreed to PCL schools competing in the PIAA playoffs and 2) the PIAA was at least as eager as the PCL for the PCL to join the PIAA.

    So the PIAA has a choice. They can go the Ohio route and not distinguish between private and public (what the PIAA does now), or they can go the Jersey route and set up separate public and non-public classifications. Whether the latter has been good for high school football, especially public high school teams, is an interesting question.

    I think it’s a perfectly legitimate position to argue that schools that don’t have borders should not be competing in the PIAA playoffs against schools that do have borders (that they actually enforce). But I think all the focus on where SJP’s players come from is often used as a way of not dealing with or even recognizing the decline (in the amount of public interest / attendance (pre-Covid), the number of kids playing, the quality of the football, etc.) in high school football across the whole state. Do people really think that the decline in the Lehigh Valley or in the WPIAL is because of SJP having players from Jersey?

  593. irish1 says:

    , If you have an issue with SJP I get that since they are a prep school that recruits a large area. However if you you are referring to all catholic schools I have a real problem with that. Most catholic schools draw players from the areas that have feeder catholic grade schools in their general area.The only schools that go outside that plan for the most part are SJP,Wood,and Lasalle. The other area catholic schools are every bit as hardworking as those public schools you refere to. They have every right to be a part of the PIAA and “our playoffs” as the public schools,whether you like it or not.

  594. hef says:

    I can’t believe it took almost 2 months for the first Public vs Private comment!!! :O I really thought we could make it to the end!!

  595. sausmann9 says:

    @FrankG – I’ll be the first to say I am glad this season was derailed for the one very specific reason; not seeing a recruited-up NJ/PA all=star team unnecessarily beat up on good, hard working public school/community teams. They have no business being part of the PIAA or our playoffs. Easy as that!

  596. FrankG says:

    @Paul There very well could be some posters on here who think one good thing about the virus is that it came the year a particularly good SJP team might have gone 15-0.

  597. Paul from Philly says:

    It’s a shame about this season. St. Joe Prep probably has their best team ever with the roster they have this year and no one is gonna know about it. 2021 can’t come fast enough!!

  598. New2PA says:

    Jeff H. – I agree with everything you said about the WPIAL.

  599. Michael says:

    How do you rid of the aids when coming onto site?

  600. Jeff H. says:

    @NWPA – with the revamped brackets the WPIAL teams in 1A-5A are not entering the state tournament until the semi-finals, so Oil City would have to win 2 games before they would play TJ, assuming of course we can get through the tournament. Aliquippa is having a great year in 4A, and looks like they are on a collision course with TJ in the WPIAL finals, amazing for a school with 117 boys competing against and beating up on schools 3x their size.

    As for the rest of the WPIAL it’s the usual suspects, Clairton in 1A, Central Valley in 3A, and Pine Richland in 5A, I don’t think anyone is beating PR this year, it’s a shame their game against Gateway was postponed 3 weeks ago due to Covid but expect those 2 to meet in the WPIAL title game. 6A is down considerably in the WPIAL this year, NA is overrated and I would expect Central Dauphin to beat them in the semi-finals if we get that far, and that’s assuming they win the WPIAL which is no sure thing as Mt Lebo played them tough few weeks ago and only lost by a field goal, and their game against Seneca Valley was cancelled earlier this year. That’s also assuming D3 does not allow Harrisburg to participate in their district playoffs, which would be a shame because they are one of the top 5 teams in the state this year in my opinion.

  601. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 I agree that every game played is a plus and I’m hoping we can make it though state playoffs, but if forced to bet I’d say the odds now are about 3/1.

  602. sausmann9 says:

    word is Landsdale Catholic and Malvern Prep picked up games against Salesium (sp?) School down in Deleware. Good deal, keep the season moving however we can!!!

  603. David Mika says:

    Thank you, Kevin X!

  604. Kevin X says:

    @ Dave M

    It’s on the LaSalle web site, under their football schedule. Site changed to O’Hara. Kind of makes sense, them, and I believe B-P, are the only two PCL schools that have their own field. Keep it on a PCL school’s grounds and field. Less fans, less revenue to pay Bensalem for stadium use.

  605. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    PJPII now hosting Conwell-Egan who had their game cancel against CRN due to you know what. Keep it somewhat local and in the Catholic family.

    @ Joneses

    Believe Wood will get the better of LaSalle, but really a toss-up.

    Also, I believe that article you referenced has to do with districts and their playoffs. Believe it is still 4 games needed to be played to be eligible for the state playoffs. Saw an article that Harrisburg is frantically looking for games to have 4 played by Oct. 26th, so to be eligible for the playoffs. I am tho really taking stabs in the dark with this, as these things constantly in flux.

    Anybody have a link to the latest and greatest football playoff brackets, revised with D8 and D11 opting out, and D12/PCL opting in?? Really not seeing how anyone in the PCL other than LaSalle can qualify for states anyway.

  606. David Mika says:

    Thank you, Frank!

  607. FrankG says:


    Here’s one place the change in location is noted:

  608. Neutral Observer says:

    Interesting playoff situation brewing in 3A for District 2. You basically have five teams with legitimate arguments for playoff consideration (in no particular order): Lake-Lehman, Wyoming Area, Lakeland, Scranton Prep, and Western Wayne.

    The WVC schools have been playing a full season so there is a lot more data on them. Lake-Lehman has been running through their schedule, but they have not played Williamsport or Crestwood – both of whom could probably beat L-L. Wyoming Area has played those 2 and lost both. L-L and WA play next week which should be huge. L-L also plays Crestwood on 10/30.

    In the LFC, Lakeland does not play either Prep or WW, but Prep beat WW last week. Lakeland beat 6A Wilkes-Barre Area last night and plays 2A Riverside and 2A Dunmore. Prep and WW both play 4A Valley View, 4A West Scranton, and 4A Honesdale.

    If D2 wants to have a D2 playoff, they have one week to do it (11/6), then the D2 rep plays D3. I have not seen any direction from D2 as to how they would pick which 2 teams get into that D2 champ game. How do you compare WVC’s 7/8 games of playoff points to LFC’s 3/4 games?

    My gut tells me that Lake-Lehman and Prep are the 2 best teams, with L-L winning the D2 champ game, but who knows if either of those teams will even make the D2 championship.

  609. David Mika says:

    Paul. Where did you see that?

  610. Paul from Philly says:

    La Salle Prep game moved to O’Hara.

  611. The Joneses says:

    @Paul from Philly, Yeah it’s basically the PCL Championship game for the right to states. I do not see either team loosing to Wood or Roman.

  612. Foleman says:

    Mount Carmel AD Gregory Sacavage just issued press release making it official that Mount Carmel has forfeited the remainder of its football season as the investigation into the alleged hazing situation. Central Columbia should call Pope John Paul in Royersford for a game this weekend as the Phoenixville School Board voted to give all fall sports the go ahead except FOOTBALL!

  613. Paul from Philly says:

    La Salle and Prep going at it this weekend in Bensalem. No stopping at the Beef and Ale House but this should be a good game!!

  614. NW PA says:

    Haven’t posted for awhile just a few thoughts from the barren north. Erie Cathedral looks to have a fairly easy push to the final four in 5A. They have Holidaysburgh in the first round but then it’s like guaranteed to be Wyoming Valley West in the quarters because Imhotep or Wood isn’t playing. They also might not have another game until Holidaysburgh because Mcdowell was shut down for 2 weeks. I’m sure they want another crack after their first performance. Mcdowell is definitely a good team this year but not sure they will get by State College. Also in 4A, Oil City is pretty good and they should make it to the quarter finals where they obviously loose to TJ. Harborcreek isn’t top 10 don’t believe the hype, they will loose to Oil City they have a beyond soft schedule.

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  616. mark d says:

    As far as Western Wayne goes they were not trying to duck Delaware Valley they had an issue with their schedule in general and their big point was they were the only 3 A school playing a 6 a school i do believe that the rest of their schedule was Delaware Valley pulse 4 other 4A schools and Scranton prep that a lot asking them to compete for a play off spot when other 3a schools play one of 2 larger schools

  617. MARK D says:

    @ Blakely sorry have to go with neutral on this one. Valley has a very young team and they knew that they were no match for Delaware Valley to open the season so they ducked them straight and simple, i sure all the politics that were being played factored in to iT we all know when adults worry about their own agendas kids suffer believe if you ASKED the kids should they play is would have been YES

  618. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin I just found the info because I think a few schools might be in the same boat. “The PIAA also passed a motion presented by District 1 (suburban Philadelphia) that lets districts decide whether to take a team to its playoffs, no matter how many games it plays. The new PIAA rule would let District 12 (Catholic and Public Leagues) decide if it wants to have a playoff for teams like St. Joseph’s, regardless of the number of games played.I found that here You’re probably right about the McDevitt game due to the timing.

  619. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    Regarding MCA/SCA. I understand more now. The heartland conference is not penalizing ANY teams or awarding a forfeit to any teams when a team chooses or finds itself incapable of playing a game. These are the rules set forth by the HAC, interestingly enough when MCA couldn’t play week 1, they would not let SCA pick up a scrimmage with a NTL team because the NTL is out of conference. A week later they let MCA pick up Williams Valley.

  620. Kevin X says:

    @ Joneses

    I’m guessing that LaSalle/McDevitt game Saturday is a scrimmage. Assuming it even does take place with LaSalle playing Friday night, as that was another one of these last minute games. Also, I don’t think the Archdiocesan schools would have the required number of PIAA practice dates in place to play an official game this weekend, otherwise guessing everyone else in the PCL would be playing as well.

    I heard/saw that teams need to have played 4 games to be eligible for the state playoffs.

  621. Brian says:

    The southern/mca game showed on Monday as a ff win for southern. It showed on their schedule here and then by Tuesday it was gone and the game wasn’t even listed as to be played. I’m not sure how that can’t be a ff win but maybe someone else knows more. I mean they both agreed to play it Tuesday and it’s at mca so if they back out it should be a ff now.

  622. The Joneses says:

    Wow. LaSalle has a game Friday vs Downingtown East and Saturday vs McDevitt. Talk about aggressive. It’s not a JV game either. I am hearing it’s to get players more opportunity. That’s aggressive, but I trust it’s well thought out. @Kevin X, I would think LaSalle and Prep would seeking to play in the states. I thought the rule PIAA put in for this year pretty much ensures qualification if a team plays a couple of games.

  623. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    All the info I have heard regarding SCA/MCA – The game is a forfeit. MCA coach got board approval to cancel the game. As far as I know SCA was not on board with the cancellation. How can that NOT be a forfeit? The only way I can see the game being made up is if by chance both MCA and SCA had future opponents who, due to covid, could not play on the same week and therefore both had open schedules.

  624. Kevin X says:

    @ mcd 65

    Why isn’t Wood playing Roman next weekend?? LaSalle and SJP are meeting up, I would figure the 4 6A PCL teams would play each other over the final three weekends in October. Then again, I thought I saw that SJP is playing another out of state team (Ohio??) later this month.

    Do you know if these PCL teams are planning on participating in the PIAA state playoffs?? The revised PIAA abbreviated playoff bracket had them (D12) re-inserted (and D11 removed) after the PCL/Archdiocese opted back in to playing football. Some of the schedules have games scheduled into November, especially Carroll, who has a full schedule right up until Thanksgiving. Also, will they (other than LaSalle and SJP) have enough required games played to even qualify for states??

    So confused………

  625. mcd 65 says:

    St Joe Prep /National Christian Academy Saturday night in Maryland. OMG National Christian is huge !! LaSalle /Downingtown East should be a good one. Here is a strange matchup due to scheduling issues- next Friday 10/16 Archbishop Wood 6A vs Bishop McDevitt 2A.

  626. SCA69 says:

    RE: SCA and Mount Carmel Tuesday night game…read it was called off due to lack of time to recover from Thursday and Friday nights’ games respectively for Southern and Mount Carmel. In other words, not enough time to recover from the previous game. I agree whole heartedly…I think it was incredulous to ask H.S. kids to play games less than three games after a previous game. Everyone is so concerned about COVID-19, but then they schedule a game…a really intense game…so ridiculously close to one another. It should never have been scheduled. Who are these people that are making these decisions????

    We should all be thankful the game was postponed/cancelled/whatever…for the kids’ sake. I am sure it was the head coaches who made the decision. NO, I do not think it is a forfeit…it is just a cancellation or a postponement. The powers to be who originally scheduled this game should be fired. I am sure the coaches had nothing to do with it. These coaches think about the kids first…not games.

  627. David Mika says:

    Brian, I am hearing its not a forfeit win for Southern…

  628. Brian says:

    At Nolan, it shows as a 2-0 win for southern so I’m guessing mca ff the game.

  629. David Mika says:

    Robert, I am checking to see. I’ve seen a different posts on social media.

  630. Robert Nolan says:

    Did Mt. Carmel forfeit Tuesday night’s game?

  631. Kevin X says:

    So Twin Valley is now the latest program to suspend football after someone on the team coughed.

    Entering flu season folks, expect these type of announcements to start coming fast and furious.

  632. Kevin X says:

    @ Matt

    Beat me to the punch!! I just saw that too. Good for them!! I hope other districts do the same, especially down here in District 1. Joke playing only 4 or 5 regular season games (assuming they even get them all in) and then trying to ram thru an abbreviated state playoff, especially when you never know when a team is going to have to cancel at the last minute over some Covid issue, real or perceived. Maybe D11 and D1 can get together on a regional playoff, especially for the smaller schools. Now that the PCL is back in the mix, and possible I suppose SJP would be/could be eligible for a the 6A playoffs, what 6A team really has a chance?? Can probably say the same thing for 2A. Could be a gift for the WPIAL to go back to their old traditional playoffs, which I would suggest combining 5A and 6A which would create a hell of a bracket.

  633. Matt says:

    Looks like D11 voted 20-0 in favor off opting out of PIAA playoffs and just doing a d11 playoff. Makes sense since PiAA state rounds would start beginning of Nov and many teams reg season plays up until then. They would have had to just take top seed based on points if they did PIAA state playoffs. No district playoffs. So only one team in each class would get a postseason. This way they play a three week district playoff and end around Thanksgiving.

  634. Steven says:

    9/29/20 Report from Press Enterprise: Berwick Area School District classes — and all extra-curriculars — abruptly ended Tuesday afternoon after school officials said they learned of a fifth COVID-19 case in the schools. Friday’s football game against Wyoming Valley West — the first official home game of the season — was canceled. The district will try to reschedule, but it might not be possible.

  635. sausmann9 says:

    @ Jack Mac – yes ACC just hired McGory last season. Prior to that Bob Petibone coached ACC for like two or three seasons right after Jon Cupples retired. Before Cupples it was Donnie Roberts and Harold Faircloth. This is McGory’s second season. He has a pretty nice resume to bring into ACC. Plus he is one of the three ACC quarterbacks that won a title at ACC so he’s homegrown for sure.

  636. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I predicted a Mifflin blowout, This might be Mifflin’s best team and Wilson lost a ton on both sides of the ball. Plus never underestimate the power of emotion, many of the Mifflin players and fans thought that Wilson ran up the score last year. Plus the disparaging comments from the Wilson faithful about the best player in the area last year didn’t help. I can’t remember a game where WIlson got beat up physically like that. The West Catholic transfer looks like a player and will make Mifflin even stronger. By the way, where is that guy from last year that said Wilson had 3 running backs as good as Singleton? They will have to deal with him next year too.

  637. David Mika says:

    Jack Mac….I am a co-owner of….I am glad you enjoyed the game…We have a game live Friday & Saturday night!

  638. Jack Mac says:

    @Sausmann9 I watched the ACC game I thought they were impressive as well. Did they get a new coach? Or has this guy been there for a while? I saw a game of theirs a few years ago and they were terribly awful. Used to live in the valley and followed them closely in the 90s. This D11Sports broadcasting games is great for me to catch up on the valley.

  639. D3 Mike says:

    Is there another chat room? I was told last year by multiple Wilson West Lawn stans that none of the rushing yards counted for future 3-time, all-state RB Nick Singleton since Governor Mifflin plays “The Little Sisters of the Poor” (as if anyone in Lancaster-Lebanon-1 has done anything but go 0-9 outside of District 3/6 over the past thirty years) and that the Bulldogs had RBs who were just as good? After 180 yards, 4 TDs, and Mifflin demolishing Wilson 48-7 on Friday, I would love to continue that conversation.

    It’s early, but the winner of Governor Mifflin and Warwick out of D3 looks like the favorite to get drubbed by the WPIAL champ in 5A in the state semi-finals (assuming they keep the brackets).

    Kevin, not sure. Under normal circumstances, taking only 4 teams would hurt schools like McDevitt and Berks Catholic because their brutal schedules sometimes drop them out of the top 4. Don’t think it will matter this year. Only two non-top 4 teams have won a district-3 title in the past decade, BTW, and only 1 since we went to 6 classes; I think that was their reasoning for taking only 4.

  640. sausmann9 says:

    wow, ACC (allentown central catholic) looked really good last night against Whitehall. (both D11 ACC 4A and Whitehall 5A). ACC a team to keep an eye on from here on out!

  641. Kevin X says:

    Just saw that the Warwick/Conestoga Valley game that was originally schedule for 9/25 is back on. Just a day later, on Saturday the 26th to allow CV to get the PIAA required practices in before a game.

    So that make my scheduling easier, we’ll match-up LaSalle vs. Governor Mifflin and Berks Catholic vs. Wilson Area on September 25th. We’ll then get LaSalle and Berks Catholic together on October 9th/10th. You’re welcome, now let’s play!!!

    BTW, to you D3 folks, what’s the deal with only having 4 playoff participants in classes 3A, 4A, 5A and 6A?? They are only taking 4 of 29 teams in 5A?? Has the PIAA come up with a revised (abbreviated??) or updated state football playoff format?? I’ve been beating the drum about having too many teams in the football post season, but only 4 of 29 is going to the opposite extreme.

  642. Kevin X says:

    LaSalle, Warwick, Governor Mifflin, Berks Catholic and Wilson Area (D11) all appear to have an open date next weekend (September 25/26). Some potentially juicy match-ups amongst that group. Gov. Miff and Berks Cath. guessing not a possibility as they are already scheduled to play later in the season. Hopefully something can get worked out between 4 of 5 of those schools, if not all 5 somehow/someway. Not a year to leave open dates on the table.

  643. Irish1 says:

    Schools in coal region play this past weekend,schools all over the state playing next weekend. But of course schools in district one and Philly archdiocese cancel the season. Nonsense

  644. Neutral Observer says:

    @Blakely Bear

    You’re right; I can’t think of another time when Valley View went to such extremes to duck a team. Other than Western Wayne avoiding DV earlier this year, I can’t even think of any other team going to these lengths either.

    THAT is why the LIAA is coming down so hard on VV…so that this type of behavior does NOT become more common.

    The LIAA is made up of other school admins/ADs/coaches who ALSO might have to cancel games in 2020 bc of COVID. Apparently, they think the VV/DV situation is distinguishable from that and worthy of sanctions. Otherwise, they’re setting a dangerous precedent for themselves.

    People would be less offended if VV had tried to make the argument that it is just not safe to have a game on 10/2. No one is going to criticize VV for legit safety/COVID concerns.

    But VV didn’t make that argument. VV just said that they won’t be in shape for state-ranked DV 3 weeks from now. But then, just 7 days later, Valley View WILL be in shape for a Honesdale team that won 2 games in 2019.

    KevinX and C.Johnson are correct. If VV were projected to win their 10/2 game, then this would not even be an issue. You even noted that yourself — the issue is the size of DV’s roster.

    Until C.Johnson posted it, I did not realize how much DV (10-2) has owned Valley View (2-10). Circumstantial evidence because every year is different, but still very interesting.

    As for an admin doing what is best for his students, I think it’s just a difference in philosophies. DV goes out of their way to schedule tough opponents to challenge their kids (i.e. going to Florida every year, LaSalle in 2020), while 4A Valley View schedules 2A Lakeland, 3A Western Wayne and 3A Scranton Prep to build their kids’ self-confidence.

    Finally, obviously all of this nonsense is coming from the adults in charge. I have no doubt that the VV kids would love the challenge of playing DV on 10/2. It’s too bad they won’t be given that opportunity.

  645. C.Johnson says:

    @ blakeley bear

    this article and video says they have been practicing during the summer. a group of 10 had to isolate due to exposure. “while rest of the team continued working out as normal”
    So was it really a “shutdown” if only a group of 10 couldn’t participate?

    I agree with Kevin X, if they were opening with Honesdale – Valley View wouldn’t be worried about their kids being in “football shape”.

    Everyone in the country has had to adjust to the restrictions this summer. No teams have been working out as normal. No 7on7s no football camps. everyone is in the same boat. And WNEP said Valley View was holding workouts anyway. So this complaining about not being in “football shape”, give me a break. If you have a serious high school athlete, they are in shape. They didn’t spend all summer eating doritos and playing video games. They were running and doing stuff on their own. Cause if they were gonna have any chance at having a season – they would be making the most of it.

    And who has 80-90 kids on their roster? NEPAfootball shared team photos. Delval and Dallas both have like 50 kids in their photo. Wilkes Barre has 40. Did IMG academy open up a scranton campus? so would be nice if you got your facts straight.
    And valley view has no problem with classifications when they put AA lakeland on the schedule.
    Valley view ducked DV in 2018 and 2019. They didn’t play dv.
    According to maxpreps, Valley view is 2 and 10 against DV since 2004. And as of now they are 2 and 11 with this forfeit.

  646. Kevin X says:

    So if Valley View was scheduled to play the likes of Mid Valley, Honesdale or the aforementioned Western Wayne that first weekend in October, they would have cancelled that game as well??

    I see that D3’s Conestoga Valley is the latest team to cancel an upcoming game, Sept. 25th against Warwick. Isn’t Warwick a top 10, even a top 5, 5A team in the state?? Looks like another D3 opponent LaSalle can pick up, as they have Manheim Township next week.

  647. Blakely Bear says:

    Neutral Observer
    Would be nice if you get your facts straight. VV has had almost no conditioning all summer. Had to shut down twice to be safe. They would need a few weeks of conditioning before even putting the equipment on. The issue isn’t 3 weeks getting ready to play a game, it’s getting in football shape, not to mention playing a roster of 80-90 kids. If you read the superintendent’s statement when they originally shut down, you would have been impressed with how the district put the health of, not only the kids, but the community at large, ahead of sports. And his statement the day after the Lackawanna meeting on the sanctions, put in no uncertain terms, that he felt the possible playoff sanctions are unfair. The forfeit itself isn’t the issue.
    And ducking DV? Can you remember VV ducking any team? Don’t equate this with Western Wayne not wanting to play a team 3 classes up, which they shouldn’t have to under any conditions. This is an administrator doing what he was hired to do, putting the well-being of students under his charge first.

  648. George says:

    Does District 1 have any upcoming scrimmages?

  649. Neutral Observer says:

    @ Kevin X

    I agree with you on the Valley View situation. 3 weeks is plenty of time to prep for a game. This looks like VV is just trying to avoid a probable loss to DV.

    Apparently, the LIAA also agrees with us because in the initial Scranton Times story, it mentioned how the LIAA was going to recommend to District 2 that it lay sanctions against Valley View (i.e. playoff eligibility). Like Ex-Crusader mentioned below, the LIAA is also pushing for VV to take a forfeit instead of just a cancellation.

    Weirdly, VV is the second LIAA team this season to try to avoid DV this year. When the original pre-COVID 2020 schedules game out, 3A Western Wayne was all upset about having to play 6A Delaware Valley. If I remember correctly, WW was also claiming safety issues due to the difference in classification. WW eventually scheduled Lower Moreland and DV replaced WW with (I think) Downingtown West.

  650. Foleman says:

    Kutztown just cancelled its opener against Twin Valley citing low roster numbers-18 kids total and this includes a co-op with Brandywine HS. It’s time for Kutztown to drop football, Low numbers have been a problem for years, the kids at Kutztown, and Brandywine HS for that matter have no interest in playing football. I saw the Coach and AD put out fliers in the school trying to get more kids out for the team. Even if they do start up again this year, a couple of injuries and they are done for the year. I doubt they will play Wyomissing due to health concerns.

  651. Kevin X says:

    @ Ex-Crusader

    That makes no sense (I’m not shooting the messenger). October 2nd is 3 weeks from today, and guessing this was announced days ago. 3 plus weeks not to be ready?? Did they not have any off season sessions or voluntary workouts?? Or are they currently in quarantine or lockdown?? I know they had some minor issues not too long ago. So if some lesser opponent comes knocking with a nice offer for a game the first weekend in October, they’ll have to take a pass I suppose.

  652. Ex-Crusader says:

    Valley View is still playing this season, but they are claiming that they will not have enough time to get ready to play on Del Val on October 2nd.

    “Valley View AD Chris Killiany has informed Delaware Valley AD Chris Ross that the Cougars will not play their LFC crossover game schedules for Oct. 2 due to the late start for practice caused by the fall sports shutdowns endured in the summer and in August.”

    This cancellation has dropped Del Val to only 3 games this season, as LFC member Abington Heights has canceled all contact sports. There are rumors that this “cancellation” will be a forfeit win for Del Val, but nothing official yet. Glad to see Del Val was able to pick up a quality opponent for that week.

    In D2, the Lackawanna Football Conference is only having a 5 game schedule this year (starting on October 2) while the Wyoming Valley Conference will play an 8 game slate, starting tomorrow.

    Riverside, in the LFC, did not follow with that conference, and they scheduled 2 or 3 games in September. As far as I know, they are the only LFC team starting early.

  653. Mike says:

    If St Joes Prep plays OJR it will be a rout and over in the first quarter

  654. Foleman says:

    Scheduling is an absolute mess for many teams. Berks Catholic has 4 games scheduled for the season, they can forget about making the playoffs with 2 of the games against Governor Mifflin and Exeter. In Berks, Daniel Boone, Muhlenberg, Exeter, Wyomissing-(super matchup with S. Columbia Cancelled) and Governor Mifflin also have openings. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Boone/Muhlenberg play each other twice. As a fan I wish Mifflin-ranked #8 in 5A or Exeter, honorable mention top 10 5A team, man up to play St. Joe Prep or LaSalle but it’s just wishful thinking on my part.

  655. Kevin X says:

    So, looks like LaSalle just got their first dance partner, @ Delaware Valley on October 2nd. Very nice, well done!! Believe that is Del Val’s opener. Guess we’ll see how LaSalle’s future schedule will play out.

    You guys up in D2, is Valley View playing football this fall?? Seems like they were going back and forth about football and athletics. Looking like they were Del Val’s original opponent on 10/2. Or was that game just cancelled for some reason.

    Guess now Del Val can work on scheduling St. Joe Prep to fill their October 30/31st open date……..

  656. Chris R says:

    Those SOL teams have built in games depending on what Truman and PW decide. So they most likely won’t be playing la salle or prep.

  657. Kevin X says:

    @ Frank & Thomas

    Here is a list that I came up with that is very unofficial as far as larger schools in Eastern PA who have (or may have) an open date(s) and possibly be options for LaSalle and SJP (guessing more so for LaSalle on a competitive basis), or for each other for that matter. I have no idea how accurate or up to date this list is…..but just for fun……

    Sept. 18th Manheim Township (D3) and Berks Catholic (D3)
    Sept. 25th Berks Catholic
    October 2nd Upper Dublin, William Tennent and Perk Valley
    October 9th Berk Catholic, Spring-Ford and Hatboro Horsham
    October 16th OJR and CR North
    October 23rd Boyertown, CR South and Scranton (D2)
    October 30th Quakertown, Wissahickon and Delaware Valley (D2)

  658. FrankG says:

    @Thomas J I suppose each could make do with as little as a four=game schedule and then a playoff game to see who represents District 12 ^A when and if state playoffs start. So many questions: will the PIAA accept the Prep or LaSalle as the D12 rep? If the only games either the Prep or LaSalle can get are away games against schools in North Jersey or New York or Ohio, will they be allowed to travel and, even if allowed, how will they do so? Might the idea of a four or five game series between the two schools, which seemed ludicrous when I first heard it, actually have some appeal? All in all, I’m still having a hard time seeing how any of it works.

  659. Thomas J Foley says:

    Prep and La Salle moving forward with football

    Ok, who in Pa will man up to play them? With the Catholic, Public and Inter Ac leagues not playing this fall, I cant see either team getting a 5 or 6 game schedule this year.

  660. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    I see you posted some D1 schedules. re. North Penn. They have no field.

    do you have any idea where their home games will be played?

  661. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Per the NPSD website, North Penn’s football schedule is as follows:

    10/2 @ Nesh
    10/9 Pennsbury
    10/16 CBW
    10/24 @ CBE
    10/30 CBS

    The 3 home games are listed to be played at the NPHS turf field. Maybe we’ll get lucky and have NPTV stream the home games. We’ll see if WBCB will stream the Neshaminy game.

    BTW, the P-V new turf field is looking good!!! Hope they get a chance to play on it this fall!!

  662. Mike A. says:

    Bill that would let school districts decide sports attendance limits moves closer to Wolf’s desk

  663. David Mika says:

    I will be there…I will tweet video highlights and tweets on the game..

  664. Robert Nolan says:

    Is anyone covering the Berwick/Southern scrimmage tomorrow?

  665. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    Like I said, I saw on MAXPREP that NP plays Pennsbury on Sept. 11 at Souderton ( NP has no field right now).

    But I do believe maxprep is wrong as often then they are right.

    @ Kevin

    Many of the PAC have cancelled in house school ( PV being one) ’till Oct. 8. So I’m sure no Fall sports ’till that time.

    Got a feeling you’re right regarding the SOL. I know NP has no in house ’till Oct 8th or Nov. 8th. Not sure which one.

    I’m assuming if your not physically at the school then you don’t play sports. Not sure if that’s true either.

    There’s a whole helluva lot I’m not sure of !

  666. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    The last I heard was that the Suburban One League pushed back all fall sports, with football “heat” acclimation on starting on Sept. 14th, first practices Sept. 21st, and first games Oct. 2nd. Of course this, as with everything in this world right now, is subject to change. I believe SOL’s Truman, Chelt. and P-W are current football no go’s.

    Don’t know about the PAC, as they probably pushed back things too, for whoever is left in that league still playing football. That’s about it for District One.

    Curious if LaSalle and St. Joe Prep are going forward. Maybe they can play each other in a best of 7 series, as guessing they would have a hard time finding suitable dance partners.

  667. David Mika says:

    Buddy, Did District 1 finally finalized their schedules? I am going to email Ad’s for them tonight…

  668. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    Maxprep has some schedules up for D1. example: NP plays pennsbury on 9/11 at Souderton.

    Can you verify these and post?

  669. Kevin X says:

    @ Matt

    I have no idea. I have not heard or seen anything, not even any crazy rumors. My last post was just based on the assumption of originally planned playoffs.

    As of now, seems like the smaller classifications, A-4A, aren’t being hit by school defections, compared to 5A and 6A schools, so they may have an easier time proceeding than the larger schools. Maybe we can see a combined 5A and 6A playoff?? That could be fun and interesting. With SJP most likely out of the picture, be a wide open tournament.

  670. Mike A. says:

    Ches-Mont becomes latest league to opt-out of fall high school sports season

  671. New2PA says:

    I was told that the WPIAL changed around their schedule so that all of the conference games would be played and they would have enough time for WPIAL playoffs to match up with the state playoffs. State finals would be Friday and Saturday after thanksgiving. WPIAL is planning 7 game regular season, 3 weeks of playoffs from Class1-5 and then two rounds of state playoffs.

    I would guess if 75+% of the teams in the state are playing, the state playoffs will happen.

  672. Matt says:

    @Kevin….did PIAA say what they would do with state playoffs? I would think they would cancel those (avoids long travel for state playoffs and it being watered down) and just let districts do a playoff if they choose and then end it mid November. Especially when we don’t know how the virus will be in a few months. I think most team would be happy to get a chance to play 5-8 games this season even if it means no playoffs. A lot of teams won’t even get that chance. Especially seniors. In college, they will get another year of eligibility so if they choose they can come back for another year (obviously top college players will enter the NFL next spring). But HS seniors won’t get another year to play at this level.

  673. Kevin X says:

    Now that the Central League is the latest to pull the plug on football and fall sports in Southeastern PA, quick math has about a third of the schools in the area (Districts 1 and 12 and the Inter-AC/Independents) playing abbreviated football schedules, as of today, the original opening kickoff night. That is aprx. 40-45 schools out of 120 or so. Can’t wait to see what the 5A and 6A state playoffs are going to look like.

  674. Kevin X says:

    @ Frank G

    You can file this under love to see it happen, but not a snowball chance in you know where……

    Have LaSalle and Northeast be one year affiliate members of District 1 and the Suburban One League in 6A football. Love to see how they would compete for a full year (or whatever abbreviate season we are going to have this year) in the SOL and then be plugged into the 16 team 6A D1 playoffs. They can replace Truman and Norristown. Believe either team could win that hypothetical 6A D1 title. Thinking Northeast was primed for a monster year, but of course they would have had to go thru SJP again for the D12 championship and never would have seen their full potential going up against other competitive large public schools.

    SJP, whatever, let them play a national/regional schedule of whoever is available and willing.

  675. mark d says:

    so much for clarity as Valley View plays politics with the kids Scranton prep is still undecided and suspended sports so who know what thier going to do the lackawanna conference was suppose to meet today but with so much still up in the air who know they need to make up their minds and let these kids and parents know what they have to do it nuts

  676. Frank G says:

    @ Kevin X

    The task of finding opponents was complicated earlier today by the decision of the Inter-AC to “postpone” all fall sports. I don’t get the idea of planning to play football in the spring. Some schools have lots of kids who play football and a spring sport–lacrosse, baseball, track, etc. Maybe easier for Inter-AC in one sense: they don’t go into the state playoffs. I also have a hard time seeing football practice beginning in February with games in March and April. Pity the schools that play on grass.

    I wonder if the Prep and LaSalle could schedule one or two games each against Jersey schools. Ohio probably is out because of travel being more difficult in the COVID era. I wouldn’t bet on either school being able to put even a short season together.

  677. Kevin X says:

    So, looks like The Prep and LaSalle may break ranks and pursue independent fall sports schedules and competition, since they are private catholic schools and not under the rule of Philly archdiocese and their respected schools (Shanahan and PJPII done too for the fall). Any football takers?? Manheim Township?? Becahi?? (those two suggestions based on the open dates listed on this site). Others looking to challenge themselves??

  678. David Mika says:

    Kevin X….I know….I am not touching District 1 right now until they decide….We have to do almost 600 schools in three weeks…UGH….

  679. Kevin X says:

    Good luck Dave!!! Hope you are updating the schedules with a very light pencil!!!

  680. David Mika says:

    We started working on the schedules….Half of District 2,3 and 4 are done. A lot of schools haven’t finalized schedules.

  681. Geo says:

    What are teams doing with teams that have cancelled from playing?

    How are schedules being fixed?

  682. Kevin X says:

    You guys are spinning your wheels trying to figure out these schedules. Just saw that Valley View cancelled/suspended?? all fall sports a day after voting to soldier on. And now all of District 12 is done for the fall. as the PCL just cancelled fall sports (and moved them to the spring?? Maybe??).

  683. sausmann9 says:

    Hey all – check your inboxes/emails. I just found a few caught up in my filters and just replied to all of you w/ attached games list. enjoy and sorry about that.

  684. sausmann9 says:

    Yo Phillyboy – sorry bud, just saw your last sentence of your post. Yes I have that game and have a copy for you. That was one of the best games I ever attended. I live right next to Lehigh sports fields and thought it was a Lehigh home game w/ the traffic coming into the parking lots.

    I have the ESPN Special leading up to that stretch of games for the Bucks. Send me an email and I’ll send you the games list to check out.

    here’s just a sample of some of the games starting at the bottom of the list

    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)
    2002 Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    2002 Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)

    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state final)

  685. MARK D says:

    @Neutral to be honest nor Valley View has voted to play Carbondale and Abington heights have said no to the season as far as i know no other school has canceled I am not sure if they even have a Schedule at this point ? i heard talk of Valley view replacing Abington with Delaware valley but to be honest i dont know for sure i do know that Riverside was looking to schedule more games..i think we will see some clarity by the end of the week

  686. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I might be wrong, but I thought the plan was for the LIAA to keep the new 5 game schedule they rolled out and if any of the schools didn’t have sports (i.e. AH), then those scheduled games would just be “no contests”.

    I think that means that those 5 teams who were scheduled to play Abington Heights now only get to play 4 games:

    Abington Heights revised 2020 schedule:

    October 2 October 9 October 16 October 23 October 30
    at WAL at NP vs. SP* vs. SCR* at DV

  687. David Mika says:

    Thank you Indian 87! We are going to start updating schedules this weekend after the PIAA meeting.

  688. Indian 87 says:

    Heartland Conference ….

  689. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X Yeah the Public League already cancelled sports. If the PIAA moves forward you will just have the PCL and Charter schools playing in the area.

  690. mark d says:

    Abington heights in D2 lackawanna conference has announced no contact sports for the fall semester. So if the conference decide to play it be doing the Schedule all over again !!!!

  691. Kevin X says:

    I tried posting something about a week and a half ago after the Gov statement and PIAA meeting and their response (and two week delay). It never hit the forum, thinking maybe something more an issue on my end. Water under the bridge at this point, now we get to look forward to Friday, where (maybe) we’ll get some clarity and a definitive course of action going forward. I’m actually leaving the door open a very small crack thinking (hoping??) maybe they’ll be some sort of abbreviated patchwork season for all sports. Wouldn’t be surprised if the PIAA cancels all fall state championships, but let the districts and leagues plow forward the best they see fit at the local level.

    @ Joneses, didn’t he PPL cancel all sports until Jan 1st, taking the Gov’s “recommendation??” Not surprising if they did.

  692. The Joneses says:

    Well the PCL voted Friday to move forward with the season. Everything hinges on the PIAA Friday.

  693. Foleman says:

    Kevin, With leagues/teams changing their status from playing to not playing every week, who knows what the season will look like or will there even be a season. Scheduling right now is a nightmare for just about everyone who is still playing. Exeter just shut down practice for a second time as another bout of Corona hit their players, The Exeter AD is saying he just doesn’t see how a season can be played.

  694. Matt says:

    @Kevin, I think everyone is just wrapping their heads around the fact that there mostly likely won’t be a football season this year. State and leagues are pushing back start dates. I just don’t think it’s going to happen. We would be ten days from opening night. And nothing is known yet.

  695. Kevin X says:

    Oddly quiet around here. Everyone on vaca?? Site down??

  696. JerrySpringer says:

    If only people cared about social distancing when it comes to “protests” AKA riots.

    Kiss the season goodbye. Lackawanna conference voted to start the season in October except Riverside is the only hold out. Wyoming valley conference wants to proceed as normal but with a conference only schedule.

  697. Matt says:

    @Foleman….I can almost guarantee that there won’t be PIAA playoffs this fall. Most leagues are rooting for a short 5-8 game season. Then it will be over before winter starts. The travel required for state playoffs can take teams 3 hours away. In a pandemic, and those kids needing space and more buses won’t work. That why even NCAA is doing conference only….less travel. I love watching state playoffs but reality is this year it won’t happen. Atleast PA will have some sort of season it looks like. VA and Maryland canceled all fall sports and even into winter as they expect it to get worse during the winter. I would love to fast forward to this time next year where I think it will be almost back to normal….I hope.

  698. Foleman says:

    Football heat acclimation starting on August 31, Games starting on Sept 18-19 PAC meeting today to finalize plans, probably will be on the same schedule. This sucks! It’s looking more and more like the kids will play a 8 game schedule with no playoffs. If the PIAA does opt for playoffs, the point system will be an absolute mess, some deserving teams will miss out and some teams that have no business being in the playoffs could be in.

  699. Kevin X says:

    Thank you Santa for giving me a much needed good laugh on a dreary overcast Thursday morning……..

  700. Buddy says:

    @ santa:


    @ kevin:

    Crawford stadium is currently a big hole in the ground. I believe you are referring to their practice field, which is turf.

    Yeah, heard a rumor that they might play their home games there if no fans allowed. Not sure if it has lights or not.

    Very little or no stands , believe they play soccer there. I think they should let parents at the games ( with masks).

    Of course each player might suddenly have 7 sets of parents, what are they going to do………..card you?

  701. Santa says:

    Keven x.
    FYI the gatherings can be as many as you want. 250 is a fake number just like the news. Upwards of a million can gather and nobody can stop anyone. Friday nights like I said are peaceful protests without masks. So kevin x please stop with your wfi comments cause what the governor says he can not control. Pack the stadiums everyone else That’s not in favor then fly to California where you belong

  702. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    A bizarre, albeit stretched silver lining in all of this for North Penn, is if there are no football games this season, there would be no “away home” games due to the re-contruction of Crawford Stadium. Their timing would end up be impeccable. Or if there are football games, but with no fans, I’m not seeing why they couldn’t play their home games at their turf stadium, which should make it possible for NPTV to broadcast/stream those home games.

  703. Kevin X says:

    FYI guys….

    Per the PA State and Wolf and Levine guidelines and restrictions, as of July 16th:

    “Other Events and Gatherings

    Events and gatherings must adhere to these gathering limitations:

    Indoor events and gatherings of more than 25 persons are prohibited.
    Outdoor events and gatherings of more than 250 persons are prohibited.
    The maximum occupancy limit includes staff.”

  704. Route54 says:

    Buddy, no fans allowed at this time.  Just about a month or two ago the original plan was to have 50% capacity for fans. That plan was tossed out as most of Pennsylvania went backwards with the virus.  We are back to where we were in April.  50% capacity of fans is a pipedream anyway.  Not sure why they implemented that . Lucky to see 500 fans last year, 2019. People rather sit at home and sweat on the couch rather than getting  outside for fresh air. As we know,  HS football is slowly diminishing. 

  705. Route54 says:

    Not looking good. I will be surprised if they finish out the month of September.  Schools are already opting out. This virus only adds to the current problems that already exist.  Lack of interest,  low rosters, low attendance of fans, concussions,  school mergers, school closures. Feeder schools being shut down.  Youth football organizations being shut down. It just keeps piling up.  This virus is going to be disastrous after it’s all said and done.  It’s only going to push interest farther away. Heard a rumor that some of the local schools in my area are dealing with roster problems because they are so low. I hope this trend passes through eventually. 

  706. Buddy says:

    Actually, the PIAA is still going ahead with Fall sports as of this writing. Will fans be allowed?

  707. Santa says:

    Frank g

    The numbers are false mine are correct. By the way chicken wings are a meal. In fact a a dead possum is a meal if I choose it to be. Last time I checked this is a free country. Nobody is telling me I need fries with my wings to be considered a meal to have a drink. Nobody is telling me I can’t watch high school football either. The corruption must stop and who’s willing to be a trend setter cause I am.

  708. Buddy says:

    North Penn has cancelled in house school ’til Nov. ( going virtual). I’m sure that includes Fall sports.

  709. Kevin X says:

    You guys are cracking me up with all of this talk about protests, no fans, medical stats, etc. Do you guys just not see the writing on the wall that is two inches from your collective faces??

    There will be little to no high school games this fall in PA. I hate being Debbie Downer, but when you’re Mr. Reality, it’s hard to separate the two.

    D2 Abington Heights just suspended all athletic activities. Just a matter of time before others continue to join this list.

  710. FrankG says:

    @Santa What’s the source of your 99.7%survival rate? Did they also provide rate of hospitalization, ICU admission, and duration of ICU stays? I too hope there is a season.

  711. SCA69 says:

    Santa…Good, idea…have the respective teams’ Community Athletic Supporters request permission from the local authorities to have a peaceful protest. When the two teams meet…before the game the the respective two groups (assuming each school has a representative group) protesting the ruling not to allow fans by the PIAA, march from the parking lots and onto the field (they got permission to do so). Before the game starts…school officials ask the respective groups please disperse as the players are about to start the game. The two groups then go to their respective teams sides.

    For example: Southern vs Berwick, Southern Boosters and Berwick Boosters separately request from the Berwick City Govt. department responsible for giving permits to protest. Each Booster Club gets permission to start in the parking lot and proceed to the stadium where they walk on the field and express their displeasure at the PIAA. School officials then ask the respective Booster Clubs to exit the field (not the stadium) as the teams are about to take the field. The Booster clubs do so going to their respective team’s side of the field, where they continue their protests during the game. At the end of the game they walk together to the parking lot and then disperse.

    Do you really think the local city/municipal governments will deny them permission to have a peaceful protest? Hey, they’ll probably join in! It’s all legal…I think!

  712. Mark d says:

    @ Neutral As far as i been told Valley View is planing to play even if they are not in School full time summer conditioning workout have continued and they are planing for the season . as of now the games will be played with no fans

  713. Kevin X says:

    I just looked at the Haverford Fords 2020 team preview.

    OK guys, is their kicker’s name for real??

  714. Santa says:


    I totally agree with you on this. If thousands can riot and and do it without masks then fans can go to football games. I have an idea for every high school football program in pa and in America. Bring the the people in by the thousands on Friday nights and call it a peaceful protest. Nothing can be done to stop you. If the fear of a large crowd makes you wear a mask then wear one or simply don’t come. You can stay at home and listen to it on the radio that’s if they are broadcasting it. If they are not then turn on the news and listen to the garbage we are all being told. It’s time to make a stand and do what’s right for all the kids who are being cheated. 99.7 percent survival rate and this is the situation we are in?It’s completely ridiculous! Bradford county has 2 Covid deaths both elderly since March. Bradford county also has 2 deaths do to lightning strikes since March. I personally would go to a concert with 200 positive Covid cases before I stood outside in a thunderstorm. So let’s wake up and stop being sheep. I’m glad to see the PIAA is honestly doing the best they can do considering the situation. Unlike several universities and colleges and conferences they are standing up to this ridiculousness and going to at least try to have a season. As far as the masks go throw them away. If you can smell a fart through someone’s underwear and pants with a mask on then what good is a mask. So for all you football fans out there Friday nights are nights for peaceful protesters. Pack the stadiums. Bring your peaceful protesting signs. Nobody can stop you! The difference between the Friday night protests and the ones we see every day on the news is exactly that. Peaceful. Nobody will get hurt. No fires will be started. No businesses destroyed. No violence at all. Guess what they do it all without a mask And no social distancing and our governors don’t stop them. Do what’s right cause high school football isn’t the same without fans and high school football is America. God bless trump 2020 2024 2028 2032 2036 2040.

  715. mgguy says:

    So the big bugaboo I see is if ONE member of the team tests positive, the team shuts down. Obviously the bigger programs see a bigger chance of being hit. A team like Wilson WL with 80 kids versus a team like Fleetwood with 40 kids sees a bigger chance of being shut down. What happens with the big schools like North Penn, and suburban one? This doesn’t look good…..

  716. Kevin X says:

    Norristown SD first domino to fall in this pipe dream of PA high school fall sports…….

  717. SCA69 says:

    Phillyboy, I share your frustration…experts agree (most of the time they don’t) being outside is one of the safest places to be and healthiest…of course, a five year old could tell you that! But, I agree decisions aren’t being made on reality…unless it is reality TV!

    But, on what information is everyone basing their decisions? We should know. With all the public activity that has occurred over the past two months we would have expected to see dramatic increases in every statistic for the virus…but we haven’t. In fact, in many areas there continues to be a decline (that started back in mid-April).

    Does anyone remember the pandemics of 1957-1958 and 1968-1969? Estimated deaths were 115,000 and 100,000 respectively. (Course, you know what they say about the sixties, “If you remember the sixties, you weren’t there!) Remember all those masks at Woodstock? Looking back on them we can say…they weren’t as bad as COVID-19…but at the time who knew how serious…but not a peep! What happened then is the same as what will happen now…it will run its course.

    My point, we should demand on what basis are decisions being made? If thousands can walk the streets with masks, we can sit in stands with masks. Evidence has shown that large public gatherings with masks have not made hospitalizations nor death rates increase.

    Hey, wasn’t Southern a recent “National Champion” for small schools…two years running? Most would agree, last year’s team was not mythical!

  718. Neutral Observer says:

    In District 2, Valley View School District is only doing virtual learning through at least September 28 (per The Scranton Times). The blurb didn’t mention sports, but I assume that the VVSD can’t allow sports if in-person classes are not allowed.

    Assuming that the football season actually happens, I’m guessing that means that Valley View has to forfeit its first five games??? And then try to get organized in time to play on 10/2??? That’s brutal.

    I know Scranton and West Scranton had to forfeit games a few years ago when the teachers union went on strike.


    8/28 Dallas (AAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/04 @ Delaware Valley (AAAAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/12 @ Abington Heights (AAAAA) 1:00 pm
    9/18 Scranton (AAAAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/25 @ West Scranton* (AAAA) 7:00 pm
    10/2 @Crestwood (AAAA) 7:00pm

  719. Matt says:

    @Jac Mac….agree football won’t work in spring. The Virginia HS association just announced no fall sports and no sports until atleast Dec with a plan to play spring football end of Feb until May. I think it either in the fall or not at all for PA. Too many multi sport athletes especially at smaller schools. So athletes at three sports at the smaller schools….some even at bigger schools.

  720. Jac Mac says:

    HS football in the spring doesn’t work… in fact it hurts football. You are going to make kids choose between Football and either Baseball, LAX, or Track. It will essentially lose programs there spring sport kids forever. In a normal 10 game HS football season a 1 way starter takes about 500-600 game reps, a 2 way starter is close to 1200 reps. We are saying it’s not okay to play football now because of a virus(I am not saying everything is fine) but it is okay for a 16 year old Junior Offensive and Defensive Lineman to possibly have 2400 competitive game reps in a 6 month period… not to mention how many kids are committed to scholarships and will have to choose not to play. Spring is the worst idea for HS football.

  721. sausmann9 says:

    thanks all for the answers on the TX recruits. Mack was the kid I was thinking. I was also trying to find info on a PA recruit that ended up at SMU in the past. I think he went down there as a linebacker. tx.

    Andre White was the other recent TX commit I was looking for and thought he ended up at Baylor as well. The Aggies it was.

  722. phillyboy says:

    In case anybody was wondering what’s phillyboy’s take on the goings-on in recent months and the prospects for PA high school football this year, I gotchew. Admittedly, I’ve been laying low — can’t leave you guys hanging any longer. Plus I appreciate you guys (you too Mika) — Kmac, the godfather of, the feisty and no-nonsense Buddy, the wise and battle tested old heads Mcd65 and FrankG, the professional D3 Mike, and last but not least the MVP Kevin X, plus a lot of role players that chime in now and then. As far as football in 2020 goes, got to see it to believe it. Too bad for Prep, this year would have been a monster ‘peak year’ — McCord and Harrison (the OSU), Trotter (Clemson), Hagins and Malik (the QB who replaced McCord last year) make for a tremendous core, are you kidding me?! Although I’m total pro public, have to say, this year might have been PA’s first mythical national champion (or #1 ranked team) since Berwick in ’95. In regards to the lockdowns, it’s an absolute and utter fraud, the ultimate dog and pony show which has created a sort of self-reinforcing cycle. Remember back in early March there were headlines such as ‘For Now the NBA and NHL Will Continue Seasons’. That was the first thing that gave me pause — whoa, this is wacky. Yes, apparently the virus itself exists, but what’s happening is nowhere near congruent with reality. It’s not about credentials or expertise, it’s about common sense. If it were anywhere close to being like the Bubonic plague of the mid-1300’s CE or the Spanish flu of 1918, precautions would be understandable and necessary, absolutely. But this is nowhere close to being close to that. In fact, hypothetically speaking, if all the restrictions and lockdowns were completely rescinded today, things would be fine, more or less the same as any year. Anyway, just some thoughts. Hey Sausmann, ’99 CB West – Beca would be awesome, never saw that game.

  723. Foleman says:

    Here in Berks County, 3 teams have already suspended preseason workouts due to individuals contracting Corona-Schuykill Valley, Exeter and now Wyomissing. I know some parents are not letting their players attend preseason workouts in fear of their kid getting the virus, and this is with practice protocols in place. Now I heard this morning that several players on the Florida Marlins have Corona! And this in BASEBALL! I’m not getting the warm and fuzzies about football at any level this fall. Anyone hear about other teams in the State suspending workouts due to Corona? Maybe it would be a good idea to have HS football played in the Spring.

  724. Kevin X says:

    You can add Yusuf Terry from Imhotep, currently at Baylor. A Matt Rhule recruit. Actually looking at the Baylor rooster to confirm Terry was still there (thought he might of transferred when Rhule left) saw that there are a handful of PA kids on the current Baylor roster.

  725. mcd 65 says:

    Andre White Texas A@M /Harrisburg HS

  726. Mike A says:

    @sausmann9 Andre White, Harrisburg linebacker, is currently a sophomore at Texas A&M.

  727. Kevin X says:

    @ sausmann9

    Are you thinking of Mack Leftwich from North Allegheny?? They only reason I remember him (and apologies to my Coatesville friends out there for digging this up) is that he was the QB of that 2012 NA team that thumped Coatesville in the 4A state championship game. Yikes, can’t believe start game was 8 years ago already.

    As far as your lost 2020 season question, we won’t have to witness the effects of the PIAA’s debacle of their implemented version of a competition formula and the mandatory requirement of certain teams “playing up” (and other not). It may also throw a wrench into their 2-year cycle re-classification adjustment plans. So maybe they’ll have some time to take a realistic look at this and get it right, or at least make some common sense adjustment.

    Bey hey, at least it worked out better than the basketball competition formula. Wow, what a freaking debacle and disgrace this is. I can’t believe they are going forward with that, assuming once again that there is a hoops season.

  728. New2PA says:

    sausmann9: The NA kid was Mack Leftwich and he was recruited to UTEP because the father of his team mate (Sean Kugler) got the head coaching job there. I don’t recall if he had any other offers.

  729. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 I agree that all the complaining about the Prep’s having players from Jersey gets really tiresome.

    I’m still hoping for a season of some kind. though 50-50 may be optimistic.Hard to find any real upsides. It may further shrink the pool of kids who have played before they start HS or who want to play football in HS.. But it may also make people appreciate the game and all it does for kids, families, and communities when it does come back.

    One of my biggest worries is what this will do to smaller colleges with small endowments. Many (some with football programs) were in trouble before COVID.

  730. SCA69 says:

    To the Joneses…thanks.

    To Mike A…The Holiday Inn Express “Trumps” a GP and a virologist combined!!!!!

    OK, I’m a bit nervous about the Berwick Southern Game. I know nothing of Berwick this year and Southern really has to fill a lot of big holes. Though, most of the reserves probably got as much action as first team players from other schools. So, can anyone fill me in.

    And I am chomping at the bit to say something regards current events…but I made a promise.

  731. sausmann9 says:

    can anyone else find any positives to not having the 2020 season???

    I have one: we won’t have to hear about all the Jersey kids on st joes prep that win a PA state title.

  732. sausmann9 says:

    quick question on PA recruits;

    how many PA kids have gone to Texas colleges to play football over the last 30 years??? I know 30 years is a HUGE span but I can only recount ONE player ever being recruited by and going to a TX college. That kid was the quarterback for North Allegheny about 2012 season or so.

    Does anyone remember any other players going to the state of TX to play football??? How about a linebacker going to SMU??? tx.

  733. sausmann9 says:

    @ Mike A – thanks, two really good games. I was at the 92′ game but the link was a cool reminder how good CV has been over the years.

    @ everyone on here – when they finally cancel the entire season for 2020, I will try to get a few really good PA games from the past on-line for a weekend of football each weekend this fall. I will post about 10 options for the upcoming weekend and let you all pick four games for the weekend. (one friday, two saturday, one sunday). here is a prelim list set up for September. I had originally posted this for August but I actually thought we were starting the season in some way. Tell me what to change, what to omit, what to add. I will try to copy these games to Youtube for that weekend. Its up to you to supply your friends, food, drink, and plenty of imagination that these games are all current, lol.

    Week 1 in Sept we shall see:
    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state title)
    1993 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Berwick (AAA state title)

    Week 2 in September we shall see:
    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 3 in September we shall see:
    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 4 in September we shall see:
    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)

    Week 5 in September we shall see:
    2002Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    2002 Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)
    2002 Big 33 game PA v Ohio all-star game (played 6/03)

  734. FrankG says:

    I will keep this relatively short.

    Perhaps nothing has been more damaging in the response to COVID-19 than the notion that it is similar, especially in its effects, to the seasonal flu. In over 40 years of practice (I’m semi-retired now) I’ve never had an adult patient under 60 die of the flu and I can count on my fingers the number who’ve had to be hospitalized. It’s true that death rates for COVID patients are declining for various reasons (e.g. the proportion of diagnosed people who are younger is increasing, we are somewhat better at treating it, etc.), but look at the number of deaths so far despite the kind of mitigation efforts we’ve never made in relation to the flu. And anyone who thinks the CDC has been over-counting COVID deaths must assume the NHS in Britain, Health Canada, the HSE in Ireland, etc. have been doing the same since they all show death rates for COVID (including among adults under 60) much higher than death rates for flu. (Many countries, including Canada, have done a much better job of reducing the incidence and the death rates.) And no one should think people who spend even three days let alone three weeks on a ventilator walk away feeling close to is true that COVID appears to be no more lethal and maybe even less lethal among YOUNG children, but it is certainly more lethal and, it appears, quite easily transmissible among young adults. And guess where that leaves older adolescents, i.e. kids who play high school football?

    I think opening schools should be a priority–much more than opening bars, indoor restaurants, etc. And no one on here doubts the value and benefits–including the health benefits–of extra-curricular activities, including team sports. I think in many areas (where the infection rate is not high) schools can be opened and sports played if school officials, coaches, families, and players do what they need to do. But approaching it all thinking that COVID is really just like the flu will likely lead to disaster.

  735. Kevin X says:

    Per Twitter, so take it for what it’s worth….

    “Per a source with knowledge of the situation, there will be no student travel for @AOPathletics outside the surrounding area – or overnight travel – for games, tournaments, or other activities with the exception of the PIAA state tournaments during the 2020-21 school year”

    “AOPathletics” consists of schools/teams from the Philadelphia Catholic League of District 12, and Bishop Shanahan and PJPII out of District 1.

  736. The Joneses says:

    @SCA69 Thank you. Your insight is appreciated.

  737. Mike A says:

    The CDC web site statistics show very few deaths from COVID-19 for younger folks. In fact, it shows MORE deaths in the 0-14 age group from the seasonal flu this year. 36 deaths out 61 million people for COVID-19 while the flu had 104 deaths. The 15-24 age group is somewhat higher with 190 deaths out of 43 million people, 51 deaths from the flu.

    Totals 0-24 104 million population
    Flu deaths 155
    COVID-19 deaths 226

    These are just stats and I’m not inferring anything about the transmission rate to others or any other factors.

    The CDC did come out with an estimated infection fatality rates back on May 22. These numbers are for planning purposes and subject to change but the rate is significantly lower than many of the number being tossed around.

    The new estimates of infection fatality rates (IFR) released by the CDC are as follows for different age groups:

    0-49 years old: 0.05%
    50-64 years old: 0.2%
    65+ years old: 1.3%
    Overall ages: 0.4%

    When considering the asymptomatic rate the overall total drops to 0.26%

    I too agree with Buddy. “I think if a couple of players/coaches get sick, it will end.”
    On another note, I don’t think college football makes it either.


    ONE FINAL NOTE: I am not a GP or virologist by I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so that should count for something, right?
    On a more serious note my brother-in law has a doctorate in microbiology and is a bacterial research specialist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Ft. Detrick, MD.
    On the other hand since we seem to be divulging some personal information, among other vocations (finance and IT) throughout my career, I am a former meteorologist/atmospheric scientist, a former NOAA-National Weather Service employee, and a former employee of the DOD’s U.S. Army Atmospheric Sciences Laboratory, that specialized in weather forecasting, paleoclimates and climate data analysis, meteorological research, and RDT&E meteorological support, so if that’s your interest you can scan my website at for my blog and paper on climate change and other meteorological information.

    Here’s to hoping for some HS Football this year!

  738. New2PA says:

    @FrankG I am thinking along the same lines as you. Out here, they seem to have things back under control after a brief spike.

  739. SCA69 says:

    I hope I am allowed to post this: I will do not more on COVID-19, I do not wish to get in a debate, but it is important to give people hope and to ensure that those making decisions for others become fully informed. I have responded in part to one other post.

    I agree we should talk football. My point in presenting what I did is to point out there are other expert opinions that are not getting attention…when making decisions to open, close, play sports, go to church etc. they should be informed. Also, the truth is we are not getting the whole picture…we are getting information that fits a particular ideology (whichever it might be)…so it is left to us to research and find the information.


    Frank G…well if we have to get into throwing around credentials: I’ve got an under graduate degree in biology, and my masters thesis was the attachment of different viruses to mouse cells to determine methods of attachment. I worked in virology research at the Frederick Cancer Research Facility in Frederick MD. I then went into Healthcare Administration where I worked at a hospital in a city that had the second highest recorded number of cases of HIV/AIDS in the state…before anyone knew what it was. (Early 80’s) I sat on a committee (because of being in administration and because of my virology background) that developed a set of universal precautions before universal precautions became the norm. Our team presented our recommendations to a meeting of the NIH.

    I am not your errand boy, since you are a GP you should know exactly where to get your information. What I learned long ago is to truly understand an issue…try to prove what you believe true to be false. Research as much as possible that covers the issue, the forces, the context, causes…and expert opinions that do not agree. Please note: I have not resorted to any name calling, or making assumptions about your character or knowledge. I have remained focused on the issue without bringing personality into it.

    I made an honest statement in reporting my statistics that they are approximations and therefore was unable to give a statistical confidence level (my minor in undergrad. school) any input is always welcome. But, it is not necessarily so that input that is not consistent with what is reported, makes what is reported null. One must find the reasons. My reason for reporting as such is to make people aware there are real reasons for over stating the number of deaths. Reasons that are artificial and reasons as a result of inappropriate actions by leaders.


    I will not be posting again on COVID-19, Coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2 here on this site. I believe it is where we should be discussing football and other sports. My purpose is not to get into a debate…enough of that out there. My purpose is to be open to other information that is out there in order to make an informed decision. Decisions that can have an impact on many…some of you may very well be in that position.

    One final note: While the number of COVID-19 cases continue to increase…the Case Fatality Rate of COVID-19 has been decreasing since April…anyone tell you that? What does that mean…more people infected, but fewer are dying…lower Case Fatality Rates that are getting close to some bad flu seasons…check it out. I suspect we will have as many if not more people infected with COVID-19 as with a bad flu…maybe 80,000,000 million or maybe more…many who do not show symptoms. But, the Case Fatality Rate will fall. One of the reasons is attenuation. The more a virus infects people and is transmitted from one to another the most often case is an RNA virus, that the SARS-CoV-2 is, will mutate and become less “virulent”, meaning you might get infected, develop antibodies, but never know it. This is one of the reasons flu seasons die out. It will happen with COVID-19. This is how Albert Sabin developed his Polio Virus…by attenuation. (Jonas Salk’s was by heat) Sabin infected cells, then took that virus and infected new cells, then took that virus and infected new cells. He did this until the virus could still be identified by antibodies (the outer protein/lipid coat) but the virus was too weak to replicate to cause infection. This is a simple explanation, but it is given to let you know the same happens with most viruses. If in the 50’s you got a shot…that was Salk’s, if you took a sugar cube…that was Sabin’s.

  740. Matt says:

    Buddy, yep….this virus doesn’t care if you’re old, young, healthy, unhealthy. It does kill more older people but there’s been a decent amount of younger people (under 40) and even some kids have severe complications or even have died. Down here in Northern VA, there has been five young people, aged 28,30,33,38, 40 die from this virus who were healthy adults. No major health problems. I know young people die from flu but five healthy under 40 people in a metro area don’t die from the flu every year. This isn’t political, I’m a non-affiliated voter, but people need to take precautions and wear masks. You don’t need to hide inside but use common sense. Don’t pack bars, don’t refuse to wear a mask, and don’t say it’s a hoax. The virus has killed about 145,000 people in four months. The Avg flu season kills 35,000 Americans and a bad one kills 50,0000. This is about 3 times worse than flu without a vaccine. Use common sense! Wear masks! That helps the spread and will get school and sports and football back sooner than later.

  741. Buddy says:

    Sweden went for “herd immunity”. Looked like they had the answer for awhile, then bam! They spiked dramatically. Their approach seemed to backfire.

    Also, they did close schools. Either 16 and under didn’t go or it was 16 and over didn’t go to school. Forget which one.

    i think they will open our schools cause Trump won’t leave it alone. After just a couple of kids get sick, they will close again.

    Let’s talk football. I believe the PIAA is allowing football to go on as of now. Don’t know how long it will last.

    I think if a couple of players/coaches get sick, it will end. I’ve never seen anything remotely like this.

  742. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Kind of reading my mind. Was wondering what Prep’s schedule currently was looking like. Figure all non PCL games would be cancelled, as they were all out of state games. So, what do they have still (as of now) on the schedule, 4 October PCL games and possibly DC’s St. John’s?? Evenings are usually pretty nice in late August in the northern Pocono’s, go visit DelVal.

  743. FrankG says:

    @ Foleman There may be a lot of fake news circulating, but I don’t think it’s actually all that hard to separate information supported by good evidence and information that isn’t. I agree it’s too bad the situation in the U.S, has become so politicized. There is some politics elsewhere related to responses to the virus, but nothing compared to what’s happening in the U.S. That’s a shame–and a danger.

    Back to schools and football. What we need to do is to understand relative risks. If schools re-open we are going to hear about teachers and children getting the virus and probably about a teacher here or there dying. That of course will be awful for those who die and their loved ones, but we do things all the time that carry a risk of illness or death. You put yourself at risk every time you drive a car. Even good drivers are at risk because of bad drivers. People who have a knee or hip replaced risk serious infection, even death. Each dose of radiation increases your chances of cancer. The issue, of course, is how great the risk is and what the relationship is between the risk and the benefit. In areas where the virus is far from well-controlled, I think schools should not open. Obviously, no sports either. And even in places where the virus is fairly well controlled–but still present in the community–I would advise a 60-year old teacher with type-2 diabetes not to be in classroom for 6 hours with a bunch of teenagers. Maybe he or she can help with online learning. As for sports, I think spectators sitting close together for 2-3 hours or going out to a bar with a few friends for a couple of cold ones after the game is much more worrisome than a group of 14-17 year olds moving around, even if sometimes at close quarters, for a 48-minute game. So I would not allow groups (of students or parents) to sit close together and I would test players at least a couple of times a week, but I wouldn’t close schools or shut down athletic programs if there is only a truly low-level of virus in the community. If case-counts are rising, I would shut bars and restaurants before I’d shut schools.

  744. Foleman says:

    With so much fake news out there it’s tough to know what is fact and what is fiction regarding the Corona virus. Corona is definitely being politicized. I recently read a scathing article on how Sweden attacked the Corona virus, then I read where most of the deaths were in the 70-80-90 age range, 50% of the deaths lived in Nursing homes. Sweden kept almost everything open including the schools and their GDP only shrunk 8%, where many other countries that had lockdowns had their GDP decrease at 3X that level plus you don’t hear about the negative residual affects the lockdown caused- mental issues which include suicide, depression and anxiety, divorce, alcoholism etc. Now Sweden is showing very few new cases per day. One thing is for certain, the world was not equipped to handle this virus which is here to stay, and the elderly account for most of the deaths. I am a caregiver for my 81 year old mother who just came off of 2 years of chemo, I take every precaution with her, sending the elderly off to a nursing home or having them around crowds is basically playing Russian roulette with their lives.

  745. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X The Prep’s game in Texas was cancelled–by the people in Texas–over a month ago. They also won’t be going to North Jersey to play Bosco in September since Jersey teams can’t start playing games till early October. As far as I know, the game against St. John’s DC is still on for, I think, the second week of September.

  746. FrankG says:

    @ SCA69 I’m a GP and am astonished by your unsupported claims, Has Dr. Birx ever said anything along the lines of COVID-19 being no worse than a serious flu? If so, please provide a citation. And what is the source of your statement that many single cases are reported multiple times? Your stats also omit the possibility that some deaths caused by COVID-19 have not been reported as such, whereas, especially in March and April, there were certainly many such deaths. And nowhere in your calculations is there any acknowledgement that many people who have had the virus and survived continue to have problems, often serious ones for long after–how long, of course, we don’t know since the virus is still quite new. But if you think that most people who have been on ventilators for a week or more have no ongoing respiratory problems or that we’re inventing the kidney, cardiovascular, and neurological problems we’re seeing in people who had COVID, you must be enveloped in denial and disinformation.

    As for the swamp, what accounts for the fact that health officials in Canada, the U.K. Australia, NZ, Italy, France, Germany, the Netherlands, South Africa, Japan, Korea, etc. have all recognized that COVID-19 is far far worse than a serious flu? You must believe in a vast, deep conspiracy well beyond anything the world has known. I suppose that can be comforting, for a while.

    I’m hoping we can focus on the best ways to open schools and to make it possible for students to play sports and engage in other extracurricular activities.

  747. David Mika says:

    Kevin X….The Pine-Richland game didn’t work out.

  748. Kevin X says:

    I see above that Delaware Valley (D2) is once again looking for a Week 0 game. I know their trip to FLA was cancelled, but thought they rescheduled against P-R out in Pittsburgh. That now cancelled as well??

    I’ll play match-maker, maybe third time is the charm. Guessing St. Joe Prep’s Week 0 game down in the heart of Texas is in jeopardy, if not already cancelled, so maybe a DelVal/SJP Week 0 game up in NEPA could be worked out. A much shorter and cheaper trip for The Prep, plus probably a whole lot cooler than Texas in late August.

  749. SCA69 says:

    I have made several posts on my Facebook site: no big deal, just wanted you to know where this is coming from. This is the second part of a two part post I made. Give it some thought. Understand also, I have a background in health care and virology. Not an expert, but I know enough to understand what is being said and the scientific data that is submitted.

    This is a continuation of my previous post, “What if COVID-19 turns out to be no worse than a serious flu.” Dr. Deborah Birx, White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator, says there is nothing from the CDC she can believe. She goes on to say the CDC figures are inflated by as much as 25%. One of the reasons she gives is that if someone dies, even though they might have died from something other than COVID-19 and they tested positive for COVID-19, but COVID-19 wasn’t even a contributing factor, the CDC wants those deaths reported as COVID-19 deaths!

    NOW, add in the fact that some cases are getting over reported, as I mentioned before…a hospital patient with COVID-19 is tested several times during his/her stay…each of those tests in more than some cases has been reported as new cases! So patient X is admitted with COVID-19 and she is reported as a new case. Okay so far. But now if she is tested, say five times during her stay to determine the progress of the disease, those five tests are reported as five new cases!

    NOW, let’s add in the thousands of deaths State Governors caused by forcing Nursing Homes to admit residents infected with COVID-19 (nearly 60,000 deaths in nursing homes, personal care homes, and staff).

    142,000 COVID-19 reported deaths.

    25% over stated CDC statistics:————-35,000
    and lets suppose 25% of Nursing
    home, personal care home, and
    staff deaths could have been prevented.—15,000

    (NOTE: the above two calculations are approximations. I do not have a statistical confidence level. The truth is, however, deaths are being overreported and many nursing home deaths and their staff did not have to occur.)

    And remember in all those 142,000 COVID-19 deaths only 31 children under the age of 14 have died.

    That means to total number of deaths, adjusted for faulty reporting and causing more deaths than what would have
    occurred equals…….92,000 deaths and only 31 children under the age of 14.

    If we consider the Coronavirus to have infected as many people as a bad flu season…approximately 80,000,000…that means the fatality rate is: .115% an average flu/influenza season is .1% !

    In a normal flu season, those over 60 account for nearly 80% of the deaths. The number of deaths over 60 attributed to Coronavirus is 83% to 85%. Not statistically significant…not a significant difference at all. It amounts to about 7,000 elderly if we use 142,000 deaths as the common factor.

    Folks, this thing has been overblown from the start. And all experts, except for Birx and a few others, have been way off the mark.

    Try to research some statistics and you get all kinds of numbers…it is a mess.

    Me thinks something is amiss!!!!!!!!!!

    Somethings of which one should be aware: All government agencies depend on taxpayer funding, which is allocated by Congress. Thus, these agencies must justify their existence and need for more money. You don’t suppose they might inflate figures to justify their existence do you? NO, long time bureaucrats are trusted public servants…they wouldn’t think of such a dastardly thing….would they? The swamp just keep getting deeper and deeper!!!!!!

  750. Matt says:

    My sister-in-law is a teacher in northern VA and they are going two days in person and two days virtual. Half kids go two days the other half go other two days and one day planning for first half of school year. They are ready to go fully virtual during winter if it spikes during flu season. They want to teach but also want to have safety measures in place. The districts down there are huge (whole counties are districts). They are trying to get kids back but are taking all safety measures doing so. As for football in VA…..that has been suspended. No football in fall in VA and it may be played in spring. As for Gov, he atleast gave the go ahead for sports to practice. Games and travel are a whole different ball game and that will take seeing what the virus does before making a decision by him and PIAA.

  751. New2PA says:

    Thinking back, the Governor let HS start practicing before 7/1 as long as the district had a plan. The administration also clarified mask rules to allow participants doing summer workouts to remove them during high intensity activity. I guess I’m seeing those as progressive moves that wouldn’t point to them shutting things down preemptively.

    I think they will more like make some general rules (like the 250 outdoor event one already on the books) and say if you can meet those as well as the various mask rules, go for it. The PIAA will say, districts, make your plans. And we will start and see how it goes. If the Governor is going to make any proclamations, its going to be about the go/no go of in-person education.

    By the time we get to November, if the state is in good shape, PIAA playoffs will happen. If it isn’t, that’ll be it.

  752. Buddy says:

    It’s not the teachers they worry about, it’s the students. And all the potential law suits. The proposal in congress now pending,

    about schools, hospitals etc, being exempt from law suits related to corona must go thru, otherwise, i doubt they’ll have school.

    My daughter is a teacher. She wants to go back. And yes, she actually does her job, same as all the other teachers.

  753. Irish1 says:

    Foleman, I agree,other people have to go to work with precautions,how come the teachers cant. Many of the people who have been working thru all this make a fraction of what the teachers make. Why cant they just let things play out and give it a chance.

  754. Foleman says:

    If Corona cases continue to trend upward in Pennsylvania, our fearless leader will cancel all fall sports and have all K-12 schools back online. One of Wolf’s largest backers- the Teachers Union is already complaining about having to go into class and actually do their jobs. I seriously doubt we will have HS football this fall and it’s a shame.

  755. Matt says:

    @Frank, I agree with what they could do to limit attendance at games for HS. Maybe each players gets four family tickets, each coach gets two, each band member and cheerleader gets two. Maybe they allow only seniors (non football, band, cheerleader) to attend games. Allow all other students to pick one home game if they choose. I would hope tv would do more games for the general fan to watch of they did that

  756. FrankG says:

    @Matt HS football may well get cancelled, but it would be easier to have football at that level than at college or pro level. Travel is shorter and simpler, no hotels, and no major problems keeping fans socially distanced. You won’t be able to have crowded stands or groups of students bunched together in the stands, but how often are there truly crowded high school games? I can see allowing families of players and even a limited number of students into games as long as they keep a certain distance. Of course, there will be no games if students aren’t in schools at least most days of the week.

  757. Matt says:

    PSAC just suspended all sports for fall.

  758. Matt says:

    @Buddy….yeah not looking good. I don’t even think students will last long in school this fall. They will probably back to virtual by November. With IVY and Patriot league cancelling seasons, I expect other college conferences to follow and then HS. Pros have an advantage of money and being able to quarentine players in hotels for whole season and playing in empty stadiums. HS and Colleges need the revenue from fans. Pros have TV deals that brings in tons of money. Can we just fast forward a year? 2020 sucks!

  759. Buddy says:

    The patriot league just cancelled their Fall sports ( including football).

    This does not bode well for high school sports. No fans allowed would be terrible, although logical.

    NP, for such a large program, never has live streaming, like Neshaminy and Pennsbury.

    WNPV is off the air. NPTV covers home games only ( too expensive to travel I guess).

    Since there is no home games, don’t know what the hell they’ll do. Prediction: I think they will cancel Fall sports.

    Too bad. NP , I think, will be pretty good this year and better next year ( although they won’t beat LaSalle either year ).

  760. Kevin X says:

    Thnx Buddy. I actually did see on the North Penn website the other day that they tentatively scheduled 3 “home” games at Soudy, and one at Pennridge. The LaSalle game is schedule at P-W.

    Of course, and unfortunately, seems like we have to preface everything with the if there is a season. Not overly optimistic at this point. Maybe best case senerio is a limited local schedule without fans/general public in attendance.

  761. Buddy says:

    Kevin X and all interested:

    NP is setting up contracts at 3 different stadiums ( if they do play football):

    Souderton, Pennridge and Wissahickon.

  762. Kevin X says:

    Article on the North Penn Crawford Stadium renovations…….

    OK, my question is, and can’t believe this was not mentioned in the article, is of course assuming that there is even a high school football season, where is North Penn going to play their home games?? I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere.

  763. Texas Bob says:

    After tearing down Crawford Stadium and rebuilding it. what do you think the seating capacity will be? About the same?

  764. mgguy says:

    I agree on the track around the stadium, Gurski Stadium in West Lawn used to have the cinder track and it was narrower and didn’t have the big areas in the end zones. Used to be able to stand along the end line almost at the goal post, now everything is set way back. Lose the feeling of intimacy. The Silver Bowl in Mount Carmel used to have the fans right on the lines too. Play on real grass!

  765. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    I’m with you with regards to stadiums sans tracks. Guessing most of us are. Probably all know the reason for them, the whole multi-purpose/space/economical angle. Kind of like the MLB/NFL stadiums of the1970s, including our beloved Vet in South Philly.

    That is why my fav stadium in D1 is easily Kottmeyer in Downingtown. If you have never seen a game there, I’d highly recommend trying to get out there some Friday evening this fall, assuming we have high school football and with fans (thinking the latter may be the issue). My old high school’s stadium upstate was one without track as well. In fact, there was very little room between the sideline and the first row of seating. Maybe too close for comfort. It also has real grass and no lights. A real throwback, but missed out on the Friday night home game experience.

  766. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Ok, better late than never to respond to your Crawford Stadium question, but I just saw this………enjoy!!!

  767. FrankG says:

    @Bob McSpadden

    Thanks for doing the work and posting the results. I don’t know about others, but I wish there were more stadiums / home fields where there isn’t a track separating the stands from the field. Also, I’m curious about how many people usually attend games in some of the bigger stadiums outside the Philly area, e.g. Altoona, Scranton, Bethlehem, the big one in Erie, etc.

  768. Bob McSpadden says:

    I’m a High School Football fan who has a compulsion about football stadiums and fields. (My wife calls it a disease) Back in 2004 I started an online database of all the football stadiums in Texas. I now have 1264 listed. Then I did New Mexico, Oklahoma, Ohio, Louisiana & West Virginia. Last year i decided to do Pennsylvania and my goal was to complete it before the 2020 season. Life got busy and thought maybe I’ll finish next year. … then can the corona virus and with the help of my son, I completed Pennsylvania Stadium inline database. The criteria for a field/stadium to be listed is that the varsity high school football team plays their home games there. I also list College and Professional stadiums. In Pennsylvania my number today is 554 facilities. The secret to the accuracy of all my stadium listings everywhere is football input because there are errors. I hope that you find this database a useful and i look forward to your input.

  769. Kmac says:

    Thank you, Mgguy.

    I had a great run over almost the 65 years, and now it is trying to see all the TV, video stream, etc games I can, with two or three in person early in the season to get that feeling. Who knows what this season will bring. None of the “buddies” that I enjoyed the games with have gone to games for many years now. Fortunately, only two of the group have passed on, both aged up pretty good. Thank you again for your thoughts.

  770. Mgguy says:

    Really enjoying Kmac’s write ups. Thank you. Takes me back to when I was at a lower anthracite game every Friday night and a Wilson WL game every Saturday. WWL at Pennsbury was a lot of fun

  771. Buddy says:

    Anyone hear news on the new stadium for North Penn? Supposed to start June.

  772. BigFishFry says:

    PIAA should make state playoffs into 2 division one division being SMALL DIVISION MEANING ONLY SCHOOLS 1A-3A can participate in. And a LARGE DIVISION MEANING ONLY SCHOOLS 4A-6A qualify. Each division team holds a best 32 team out 1A-3A for small n next 32 for 4A-6A. EACH SIDE OF PLAYOFF BRACKET WOULD HOLD 16 on East n 16 from West I would love to see this happen instead of the basic 1A-6A state champion we would have SMALL DIVISION CHAMP AND A BIG SCHOOL CHAMP MEANING ONLY THE BEST WOULD PLAY. Imhotep PCC PINE RICHLAND NORTH ALLY PREP WOOD LASALLE ROMAN WOODLAND HILLS SO MANY MORE WOULD ALL BE I. ONE BIG KNOCKOUT TOURNAMENT. Would love to see this happen.

  773. Jack Mac says:

    First let me say I wouldn’t consider myself a republican or Democrat. I am a normal human being. A couple of things here.
    1. Colleges and universities HAVE to open this fall. If not it will be the collapse of the higher ed system. Why would any student pay 50-70k per year to learn online when they can go to online community college for 3-5k. No room and board. It will literally end the majority of private schools especially private school athletic programs not in Power 5 Conferences. Colleges will open. More colleges have announced they will open this fall than have announced they won’t including Notre Dam, Harvard, Dusquesne

    2. We will play football in Pennsylvania. Will everyone play? Will it be a shortened season? I don’t know but some type of HS football will be played in Pa in 2020. If we are waiting for a vaccine than the next version of HS sports we will see is 2021 HS football. I KNOW NOTHING but my guess is shortened regular season with a shortened version of district playoffs that end before November 1st. Basketball/Wrestling is in trouble because of flu season and all the confusions that will bring.

    3. College Football Players were just allowed to return to campus for summer workouts starting June 1st. It’s always a trickle down affect the NFL hasn’t budged in having a normal season now CFB is following suit.

    4. Literally the only thing standing in front of HS football is Governor Wolf. I don’t know if he is right or wrong with what he is doing, that is not a discussion piece for here.

  774. FrankG says:

    @ The Joneses I’m really hoping there’s a season. My point was that I don’t think the main issue is someone or some group not caring about the kids or about football or trying to “control the narrative.” From what I can see, especially when you look at other countries (Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.) where there isn’t as much political partisanship over when and how to “open up”, there’s a great deal of uncertainty about everything to do with sports and with schools–colleges, high schools, etc. Today I heard Cambridge University has decided to go almost completely online till the summer of 2021 with its classes. Meanwhile, I’m wondering how the California state universities will field football teams when they won’t have in-person classes. And I see Harbaugh at Michigan is saying he’d rather play in empty stadiums than not play at all–clearly because he’s sees a real chance the season will get cancelled (not by the state governor but by the Big Ten). One question I have is whether the insurance rates boards and schools pay to cover their athletic programs, especially football, have changed.

  775. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G:
    Not so fast on the college football comments with many colleges saying they are willing play even if their conference says no football. NHL, NBA and MLB aren’t playing yet because they are stuck trying to work out compensation differences, which venues makes the most sense logistically and financially. One the hand the CDC says 60,000 people died in the flu season of 2018-2019 and we all were unaware of it says someone is controlling the narrative of the covid story. No politics here so we shouldn’t even go that rout and if we’re truthful its both sides. Let’s be cautious, lets be smart and Let’s get ready for some football. I have one playing in college and one in highschool. I want it all.

  776. FrankG says:

    @ racer x Who is it who doesn’t care at all about the kids? MLB seems to be assuming they can’t have fans in the stands at least until fall. Colleges, many of which get a great deal of money from football, seem very wary about playing football at all, let alone having fans attend. I’ve heard lots of college coaches say they’re not sure it’s a good idea to play in the fall. Let’s see how long it takes for soccer leagues around the world to open their games to fans. Why do you think the NHL and NBA have yet to announce plans and–if they do resume–will exclude all fans and will enforce many of the precautions you seem to think are unnecessary? My point is that, especially in light of all the uncertainties and given the stakes, people in responsible positions WITHIN sports organizations are understandably cautious.

  777. New2PA says:

    Racer: Not quite all in on the conspiracy, but you are correct that the PIAA has said they are taking direction from the Governors office. Thus far, over half the football playing schools are yellow and we are still a long way from the season starting. As long as there aren’t any huge outbreaks in the yellow and soon to be yellow area’s, They will get to green by the time the season starts. I think school will start along with sports in some fashion. I do believe there is a reasonable chance that not all of the state plays football and the PIAA has said they understand that. So maybe only half the state plays and the season ends after districts finals or state semi’s – or the brackets are redone to exclude D1/12 if they can’t play.

  778. racer x says:

    Truth….unfortunately it’s a hard reality but, decisions on playing high school football this fall will be made by people who who could care less about football or the kids, orders will be given from Governor down, especially in Philly where they have more control, bottom line is this is not about the virus but the election in November.They will try hard to keep things shut down. People will try to fight back the orders and we are already seeing that.
    However, If they do play you will have limitations on crowd(parents only), masks must be worn, social distancing, player temperature checks before game by health officials, time outs for sanitizing, etc. It’s all about continuing the fear porn, scaring people into thinking this is soooo bad that…. voting must be done by mail, in addition to other agendas here.

  779. Mike A says:

    sausmann9…As a Cumberland Valley alumni I have 2 more to possibly add to your list (I was there for both games):

    1992 Cumberland Valley vs. Upper St Clair (AAAA State Final)

    2015 Cumberland Valley vs. Central Dauphin (AAAA District 3 Championship and State Quarter-Final) – Record Setting Game

    I have displayed a shortened link to the USA Today article on the game above as to not give away the results (which were in the original URL). Don’t click if you if want to be in suspense!

  780. New2PA says:

    This seems more optimistic than not about starting in the fall.

  781. Route54 says:

    Just a little less than 2 months ago while driving to the poconos to a job site, I’m thinking football isn’t to far off. Now most are wondering if there will be any football at all this season. Including college.

  782. sausmann9 says:

    If the quarentine doesn’t end and our season is sadly cancelled, I am going to try something here but might need some assistance/advice/etc.. If cancelled, starting August 2020 – I am going to try and post three to four games for an upcoming weekend. Many of you that still have a games list from me, start from the Mjsc. PA games section at the 1991 CB West v Erie Prep game and go up from there.

    For example:

    Week 1 in August we shall see:
    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state title)
    1993 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Berwick (AAA state title)

    Week 2 in August we shall see:
    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 3 in August we shall see:
    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 4 in August we shall see:
    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)

    Week 5 in August we shall see:
    Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)
    Big 33 game PA v Ohio all-star game (played 6/03)

    what do some of you think of this idea??? I have been doing this for some others for OOS games. Thinking of switching gears and doing PA games at the start of the season. would some of you get into these games or nobody into yesterday’s deal? let me know if good idea and I will see if I can post them starting 8/1/2020.

  783. sausmann9 says:

    question: anyone know where Stone Hollenbach is going to play??? I didn’t see his name on the spring roster nor is he on the quarterback depth chart; if he were to switch positions what would he do? Punt? Tightend? just curious b/c I have no idea but would love to see him start at some school and throw up some big time numbers. tx.

  784. David Mika says:

    Foleman….This is big news!

  785. Foleman says:

    This is Huge for Berks County, Wyomissing, Berks Catholic, Kutztown were having a very difficult time scheduling OOC opponents, a win-win for all counties involved. It will be interesting to see what teams will play up. I cant see Muhlenberg or Daniel Boone staying in the large school division, would love to see Wyomissing move up, they will crush all comers in the lower division. They would be competitive in the large school LL this upcoming season. Looking forward to the WYO/S. Columbia game this year……….if there is a season……….

  786. David Mika says:

    Robert….We are all hoping. I think the Philly region is going to decide if we have fall sports this year.

  787. Robert Nolan says:

    Any word on whether the 2020 high school football season will be played?

  788. mgguy says:

    I stand corrected on the date, league play will start in 2022

  789. mgguy says:

    A correction, new league season starts in 2022 for the LL merger with Berks

  790. mgguy says:

    A new “super conference” just approved by the L-L, 37 teams total with the addition of the Berks Conference to the L-L for football only starting in 2021. Resolves a lot of scheduling issues and allows for more competitive games for a lot of teams. Expect Reading to be in Section 1 with Wilson. Actual section breakdowns and organization to be addressed in future.

  791. FrankG says:


    Please don’t bring politics onto this forum.

  792. Santa says:

    From the North Pole Santa was wondering if Roth could send some of his players up for this upcoming Christmas. The Democrats have destroyed our economy with this fake virus and there scare tactics unfortunately for southern Columbia the Democratic Party has also destroyed any state title hopes in 2020. Santa is currently looking for great help with great leadership skills that could only be taught by the god of high school football coaches Jim Roth. Since there will be no recruiting opportunities for the 2020 class in southern Santa would like to offer every senior free living quarters meals and work putting together the best Christmas ever in 2020. We are no knoebles campground but we will keep you warm a roof over your head and fed to provide the best Christmas ever

  793. Bobo says:

    Hopefully, will continue to livestream games for several teams in Lower Bucks County. They focus primarily on Pennsbury, Neshaminy and Conwell-Egan, however, based on who those teams play you get a pretty good sampling of the Suburban One and Catholic League Blue.

  794. Buddy hensler says:

    wonder if any other local station will pick up the NP games? probably not eh.

  795. Mike Smoll says:

    Wow, could not believe the news, remember seeing Jim Church back in the day at games and talking to Jim, have listened to them for years and years, will certainly be missed, of course the big stations coming in and taking some of their biggest (and advertising dollars) games away, such as the Pennridge-Quakertown Thanksgiving Day game really hurt.

    BTW PV will have their field ready before NP.

  796. phillyboy says:

    Say it ain’t so, 1440 am WNPV is shutting down. That’s a huge bummer. I’ve been listening to that show since the early 2000’s, probably 2004. It was a gem. By rights it should have been picked up by 94 WIP. But it’s primarily a professional sports town here in Philadelphia. Many a Friday night I enjoyed the simple pleasure of coming home and listening to those guys; the quirky and funny Jeff Nolan, the affable and fun-to-listen-to Kevin Cooney (with a great Philly accent). Remember Dan Morehouse a few years back and of course the man, the myth, the legend Kyle Berger doing the play-by-play for the North Penn games. Lo’e you guys, was a great run.

  797. Irish1 says:

    Kevin X……..sorry to hear about WNPV , used to listen to both football and basketball games on there. Looking at Perk Valleys schedule for next year,cant believe too many schools have a tougher September……Coatesville, Downingtown W,..Manheim Central,…Spring-Ford. The last three all on the road. I know some of those schools were hit hard by graduation,but they may have over scheduled themselves a bit.

  798. Kevin X says:

    It appears that Perkiomen Valley HS is joining the turf wars, and will be installing an artificial turf at their football stadium, along with a new track. Guess they are buying in bulk as they are also renovating the baseball field with turf as well. So, the big question, which football turf field will host a game first, North Penn or PV??

    Also saw some sad news today that WNPV 1440 AM in Lansdale is going off the air on April 30th. Enjoyed their Friday night football broadcasts if I wasn’t at a game, or catching the post game scoreboard show on my way home from a game.

  799. Kevin X says:

    Happy Hump Day all!!!!

    That is we’re at the halfway point (sort of kind of) from last year’s opening kickoff until the 2020 kickoff. Friday night lights in 26 weeks/6 months from today!!!!

    But whose really counting………

  800. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    Time for Mike Carey to make his return to the sidelines!

  801. The Joneses says:

    @D1 Rob, It is true. I spoke to a parent of an incoming freshman last night and he confirmed.

  802. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    D1 Rob, he did announce that he is leaving for Ursinus to the team yesterday. I am hearing that they will likely post the position as open to the public, but current assistants are welcome to apply. The passing game coordinator (Steve Devlin’s son) is also heading to Ursinus.

  803. D1 Rob says:

    Hearing reports, that Kyle Adkins, the young and fair new HC is leaving Wood to become an assistant at Ursinus… I know there’s been some stuff going on during the Off season with the transfer classification bump to 6A. Does anyone have any insider information? And if this is true are they going to get an interim coach within the program or open the application process up to the public? I know former Bristol/WT coach Leo Plenski was the offensive line coach this past season.

  804. D3 Mike says:

    Bob, I was not at any of the meetings. The info I had was from two Pittsburgh reporters I follow on Twitter who were at one of the meetings, though. Considering that one also posted screenshots to the preliminary playoff brackets before anyone else in the state had seen them, I took the Tweets as pretty credible evidence that they were there. That said, reporting on one appeal reason certainly doesn’t preclude other reasons for appeal (as you said below) and there are multiple meetings and steps in the appeal process. I’d think there would be minutes somewhere since these are all supposed to be public meetings, aren’t they?

  805. Bob says:

    D3 Mike did I read your comment correct? The Wood principal argued the rule over player safety? That would be very very different than what was reported back to me. My understanding was that Wood’s argument was based around the rule change from 5 transfers to 3 transfers after they had already allowed four transfers, an argument that one of those 4 transfers was approved by the PIAA as a non athletic transfer after winning his hearing for the “hardship” rule, and also to do with the fact that they had LOST more transfers than they had gained. It would be VERY surprising to me if the principal argued against the classification due to player safety.

  806. Buddy Hensler says:

    @Kevin X

    Yu da man! ( link worked).

  807. Kevin X says:

    That’s what I heard too a few years ago about PW, that the rent asking price was pretty high. Don’t get why, because the stadium/facility is nothing to write home about. It is OK, decent, adequate, functionally, at best, but that’s about it, IMO. Basically location location location. I know there was some construction going on at the school the past few years, assuming the new gym (which is really nice, btw), so parking was getting tight near the stadium and construction activity. Maybe they can take another look, get some x-tra $$ to help pay for the new gym (and maybe upgrades to the stadium) 🙂

  808. Kevin X says:

    Hey Buddy

    This article is the most recent that I have heard/saw on the issue. Looks like it is moving forward, albeit slowly. Who know if, what, when, etc. it will actually happen. No promises that this link will work, I’ve been getting shut out do to too many freebies…….

  809. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley football adds former Penn State and NFL DT Jordan Hill to coaching staff

  810. The Joneses says:


    I second that thought on PW. I know that is why LaSalle stopped playing there. I guess PW doesn’t need the revenue after loosing two prime renters.

  811. Bob says:

    Kevin X

    I think the issue with PW is the cost. Last I heard PW price to rent the field is out of control. Nobody wants to play there anymore. I could be wrong but I don’t even remember as many playoff games being played there anymore as a result.

  812. Buddy Hensler says:

    @ NP fans ( hopefully there are some out there):

    Has anyone heard anything on the new stadium at North Penn?

  813. Irish1 says:

    PJP playing tough early schedule next year with Arch Carroll, Chestnut Hill from inter ac league and also Berks Catholic along with New Hope before Pac league games start.

  814. NE-Alum says:

    I see Northeast has a good competitive out-of-league schedule with:

    week 0 – Gonzaga College HS (Washington DC)
    week 1 – Camden High
    week 2 – Paramus High (North Jersey)
    week 3- Haverford

    Good for Philly Football to play and showcase the talent in the area to the other areas throughout the country.

  815. Kevin X says:

    I also saw that there will be an early season 5A state final re-match on Saturday Sept. 12 @ Wm. Tennent as Cheltenham visits Archbishop Wood.

    @ Frank G

    Seriously. That would be nice. What I’d also like to see, and this may be a little selfish, is that SJP gets out of Widener for their home field and move back to P-W, or north of the city like Upper Dublin or Wissahickon. I know LC has their home games at Wissahickon, but I was at the LaSalle/SJP regular season game at Wissahickon and it was electric (at least until late 1st qtr.). Same thing with LaSalle, find a stable home field. Believe they had “home” games at four different venues last season.

  816. Jeff H says:

    @Brian – I did not state Aliquippa would be forced to move up from 4A to 5A, but now that they are in 4A they will be forced to stay in 4A in 2 years if they have 3 or more transfers, regardless of whether they accumulate any success points. You are obviously correct about the combination of transfers and success points to initially move up, but once a school is forced to play up they stay in their new class if they have 3 or more transfers, regardless of their success at the new class, that was my point. If Wood or Imhotep has 3 transfers the next 2 years they will stay at 5A and 6A respectively and will not be allowed to drop back down a class.

    You show your ignorance of how the WPIAL functions if you believe Aliquippa played up to 3A to avoid Southern Columbia, anyone from Aliquippa would laugh in your face if you made that comment. The fact is they moved to 3A when classes were expanded because that’s the class all their rivals played in, and if they wanted to play their rivals they had to play 3A, because the WPIAL only places teams from the same classification in a conference, which is different than most of the rest of the state. Had the PIAA not made the move to 6 classes I can guarantee you the Quips would have played in 2A the last several years and would have likely played and lost to So Col in a few of those state finals, and had So Col played 3A the last few years Aliquippa would have still played 3A, those are facts whether you want to believe them or not. I also disagree with you about 2018, as great as Farrell was Aliquippa was better than they were that year, and both Central Valley and Wyoming were a lot better than Farrell this year, you must be watching different games than I am. I’m not disagreeing 3A is the weakest class statewide, but take So Columbia out of 2A and then tell me you think whoever would have won 2A in 2018 would have beaten Aliquippa that year, because IMO Aliquippa would have easily beaten any other 2A team.

    @ Philly Boy – Tony Dorsett did live in the projects in Aliquippa, but my understanding is he attended Hopewell because it was much better academically, as you mentioned they are bordering districts.

  817. David Mika says:

    We started posting schedules

  818. Michael says:

    When are the 2020 schedules posted?

  819. Frank G says:

    @Kevin X I really hope SJP arranges that one of their games against a high-profile team from outside the area is played in the Philly area. Last year their three such games were in Georgia and at Rutgers (twice). Not many people in the school community and in the wider community can make it to games played out of the area. Going to games is a habit, and if you don’t start going in September, you’re less likely to go in October and November.

  820. Kevin X says:

    Looks like SJP is heading down to the Lone Star state to open their season (August 29th) against Texas 5A champion and power Shadow Creek. Game is slated to be an ESPN game. They also have a game in DC against St. John’s on their early season schedule.

  821. Jut says:

    That is all nonsense about PSU recruiting SCA. They do recruit them, but only give out a few offers and scholarships. They recruited Fleming, he just chose OSU that’s where he thinks he could excel at. Which if you watched the PSU bowl game they are going to run the ball a lot more next year. That’s why star wide receiver KJ Hamler is going to the draft this year. PSU has 4 4-5 star rbs. The comment about its cause SCA is surround by cornfields is funny. Like 10 miles south them is North Schuylkill high school and their linebacker got recruited by Penn state and signed with them. On that note would love to see sca play north Schuylkill. MCA does and it’s a decent rival between the 2. Justin shorter leaving Psu, didn’t play well in most of the games he played and was also injured for most of his freshman year. So he chose to take his abilities else where which now is easy with the transfer portal. I don’t like it but it the kids choice,

  822. Brian says:

    Goldman, marks didn’t transfer out of penn st. He got kicked out because of some choices. He was talented but lacked work ethic. He tried to go to Pitt where Hynoski was but that didnt work out there either cuz he couldn’t stay out of trouble. As for playing Wyoming area. Southern added Wyoming area this past year and beat them 42-0 so I’m assuming it had nothing to do with whether southern was moving up or not. Southerns been trying to add Berwick for awhile now but they didn’t until this group graduated sounds like its week 1 of next season.

  823. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, thanks for the clarification on the transfer rules. Just shows how clueless the PIAA is, wait until the success factor hits the basketball powerhouses, it’s going to get real interesting there. Southern Columbia, as someone pointed out earlier on this board, gets all of their transfers in before HS so they will never have to move up with the new success factor. As far the WYo/SC game this year, I like Wyo, with 16 starters back over a rebuilding SC. Which leads me to another question. Did SC know ahead of plan that they would not have to move up to AAA? I believer they did as there was no way they would have scheduled WYO knowing that they would meet up in the State Playoffs. Wyo dropped Berks Catholic off the schedule as they thought they were moving down to 3A, BC opted to stay at 4A. On PSU recruiting SC players, SC players are so well coached they peak in HS, the few Div 1 football players they had over the years didn’t fare so well in College. Josh Marks was an all american lineman from SC who went to Penn State and never saw the field and transferred out. I believe SC’S Garcia was recruited by the Michigan staff to save a ship for Wrestling, I might be wrong, but I doubt he will see much PT playing football for the Wolverines. SC’S stud receiver Fleming was friends with PSU’S Justin Shorter, a former top ranked receiver who hardly played at PSU and just transferred to Florida, that didn’t sit well with Fleming, OSU puts receivers in the pro’s and having St. Joe Prep’s stud QB Kyle McCord signing on at OSU was a big plus.

  824. Mike Smoll says:

    Thanks, just seems odd that after one of the best seasons in school history and a nice run in the states, the WHOLE STAFF quits save one. Just odd.

  825. phillyboy says:

    @ Jeff H — Speaking of Aliquippa, always wondered why the great Tony Dorsett didn’t go to Aliquippa if that’s where he was from. According to Wikipedia he went to Hopewell HS which is in Hopewell Township, a contiguous suburb. Did he technically live in Hopewell, was just curious what the situation was if you have any insight. Reminds me a little bit of how Bo Jackson attended McAdory High School (outside of Bessemer AL) although to the best of my knowledge he was actually from Bessemer.

  826. Brian says:

    Jeff I understand the transfer rule very well. You could have 100 transfer but if you don’t accumulate the success points it doesn’t matter you don’t get moved up. You can win a state title every year but if you don’t reach the transfer limit you’re not moved up. So if Aliquippa does lose every game for the next 2 years they won’t be forced up. As for AAA I will stand on my statement that AAA is the weakest class there is. The A and AA champion would’ve won AAA the past 2 years. I’ve watched AAA game both years and those teams weren’t impressive. I will stand on my statement about Aliquippa too. All these years they played AA with A enrollment until Southern moved up to AA and then all the sudden the Quips moved up to AAA. why did they move up all the sudden to AAA when they could’ve done it years prior to that? I know you’ll give me the same reasoning but ironically as soon as southern hit AA and beat them they just thought hey we should move up for tougher competition because AA is too easy even though southern demolished them.

  827. Jeff H says:

    @ Brian – Aliquippa playing 3A the last 4 years had nothing to do with avoiding Southern Columbia, I’ve explained it on this board in years past but will do so again, the reason they played in 3A was because almost all of their rivals are 3A, period, end of story. I can guarantee you they give absolutely zero consideration to what class So Col plays, and if So Col would have played 3A the last few years so would have Aliquippa. The WPIAL only puts teams from the same classification in a conference, so it they played 2A or especially 1A they would have been travelling long distances to play conference games against teams that were not their natural rivals from Beaver County.

    There was a lot of debate among coaches and AD’s the last 2 months in the WPIAL over grouping schools geographically regardless of class and put teams from different classes in the same conference for the first time in many decades, but a large majority of the coaches favored keeping the conferences all the same class. You also don’t understand the transfer rule or you wouldn’t say Aliquippa will be moving back to 2A in a couple of years, they could lose every game for the next 2 years (which obviously is not going to happen, they will still be above 500 in 4A and likely make the district playoffs) and if they have 3 or more transfers they will be forced to stay at 4A for the following 2yr cycle, and they will have transfers due to the nature of that district being one of the poorest in the state with a lot of single parent households.

    I also disagree with you about 3A being easier to win than 2A, any 3A champion the last 4 years would have beaten every 2A team in the state except Southern Columbia, the only reason 2A was tougher for schools to win than 3A was strictly due to So Col. Now if you said 4A was tougher to win than 5A the last few years I and a lot of others would agree.

  828. SCA69 says:

    D3…Your narrative reasoning is insightful. (Though some may think “inciteful”.) You propose observations in your discourse that lends itself to further thought and discussion. Indeed “fairness” is subjective…somewhat like the old critical ironic observation that there are two kinds of people in this world: the “righteous” and the “unrighteous”! The classifying is always done by the “righteous”!!!!! Similarly with “fairness”. I agree that there is nothing fair or unfair about a H.S. student athlete not having the opportunity to play in a playoff or even a championship game. Perhaps “unfortunate” is the more appropriate term. Could we agree to start with the premise, “All High School student athletes should have the opportunity to play in the sport(s) of their choosing” or something akin to the idea? Given certain academic, attendance, and other criteria that is uniformly applied by all schools under the PIAA rules and regulations. Of course, then we get into the argument of, “why should a student who has a lower IQ (and thus, perhaps lower grades) be denied the opportunity to play because they do not meet the “minimum grade” standard for participation. It very well could be that that lower IQ student is actually exceeding (academically) what academicians and psychologists would expect! We can leave that discussion for another time.

    Winning brings its own challenges, one of which is the direct proportion of wins to dislike. The increasing number of times a team wins seems to effect an increase the number of people who resent its winning. I wonder if those having strong negative/resentful/disfavorable opinions of SCA winning would have the same if SCA regularly lost in the first or second rounds of the playoffs, but still had undefeated regular league seasons? Then, I’m sure, there would be a chorus of those who wonder, “What’s wrong with Southern? They always choke in the playoffs.” Then again, those student athletes who played and lost to the SCA football team may very well brag, “we played the number one team in the country!” And those who played against Julian Fleming might say they played against the number one receiver in America. And how many athletes who played against Henry Hynoski will say with pride, “I played against a future pro-football player…or even, “I got run over by Henry Hynoski!” And perhaps those players on teams in the same league as Southern may very well speak with pride that they had the number one team in the country in their league. I recall when Mount Carmel, Berwick, and Southern were all state champions in their respective divisions. There was much pride in the area for the “coal region’s” football prowess. And I venture to guess that there are not a few athletes who have looked and learned from the dedication of the Southern football players and increased their own efforts and dedication.

    I will end for now with another premise we might agree too…that we should not “punish” a successful team if it is playing by the rules. The argument then begins with…what should those rules entail? I will argue, however, there should never ever be a rule that punishes for success!

  829. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I am fairly certain that PSU didn’t offer any of the other Southern kids other than Fleming.
    I could be wrong but I don’t think they did.

    It seems to me that PSU for years and years and years has some sort of recruiting matrix that kids have to fit into that includes being a certain size, namely height/weight. I don’t even usually see elite speed being as important for them. But you better fit the bill in your frame or else they aren’t interested. And I am a PSU fan…. They get some good dudes but I think they miss sometimes on evaluations because of their lack of focus on intangibles. Obviously that is not always the case (ex. McSorley) but I am just seeing a pattern since even the 80’s.

  830. Jimmy says:

    Honestly I don’t think it is a Southern Columbia thing. Look at the elite players over the past few years none have gone to PSU. Just off the top of my head
    Swift Georgia
    Maguire Clemson
    Trotter Clemson
    McCord Ohio St
    Harrison Ohio St
    White Texas A&M
    Baramore Alabama
    Pitts Florida
    Upsure Florida St
    Fleming Ohio St

    Now they have gotten Parsons and Sanders which were two elite prospects. Also something to consider especially with the other Soco kids other than Fleming how much was PSU interested? They may have offers but most schools put out 200+ offers for 25 spots, a lot of those are non-commitable offers. I have no insight as to why but the elite college football teams in the country are Alabama Clemson Ohio St Georgia LSU Oklahoma… If you play college football at any level especially the power 5 level you cannot be concerned about playing time because if you are you aren’t the competitor you need to be at that level they are always bringing in players right after you just as accomplished

  831. 4th and Long says:

    Mike, the rumor about Southern Lehigh is the administration wanted to fire one coach and the staff said either he stays or we all leave. I don’t know why one coach would be singled out, but I’d bet it involved a conflict with a parent or someone attached to the district. That’s all third hand, so take it for what it’s worth.

  832. Santa says:

    There’s no anti penn state at sca. Franklin isn’t going to recruit where cornfields grow around the high school football field. I’m sure all the sca boys would of loved to be at psu. The facts are that they are not from a big intercity school or from south Florida and franklin still lines up in the shotgun when its 4th and 1 from the 1. Santa will say no more cause even the undereducated can coach division 1

  833. Brian says:

    Sausmann, be honest, if you were a division 1 football player and were deciding where to that gave you the best chance to compete for a national championship would you choose penn st? Take being a fan of the school out of the equation. I’m a notre dame fan and if I was a division 1 football player I wouldn’t go to notre dame. They can’t win the big games.

  834. sausmann9 says:

    Okay let me ask it this way since it seems to be a sore topic;

    why no SCA kids interested in attending and playing for PSU?

  835. Mike Smoll says:

    Anyone know why the Southern Lehigh Coaching staff resigned in mass (less 1) after one of the best seasons in school history? I saw something in one of the newspapers that they didn’t feel they had administrative support or some kind of constraints put on them, but nothing definite?

  836. sausmann9 says:

    Okay two quick questions;

    Is there some kind of anti-PSU mindset at Southern Columbia or was Roth ever “wronged” by PSU???

    second question, after looking at the depth chart for Alabama and the fact they just brought in ANOTHER 5-star quarterback, at what point does Hollenbach look into transferring, starting, and actually playing somewhere while he has a few seasons of eligibility left? Bryce Young 5star, Mac Jones 5star, Tualia Tagovailoa 4star, Paul Tyson 4star, Hollenbach walk on.

  837. Brian says:

    I don’t see any sca fans crying. I do see them staying valid points why moving up to AAA doesn’t make sense. The word dominating has been used and yes this current graduating class was dominant but they had once in a lifetime team come through with 5 division one recruits. They had maybe 3 total in school history so they were fortunate to have them all in the same class. Last year they didn’t necessarily dominate like you say. Wilmington was locked in a 14-14 game mid 3rd quarter and the wheels fell off. When southern went up 2 scores Wilmington had to ditch they’re game plan and dig themselves deeper. Mt. Carmel fave them trouble for the previous 2 years. Their first state title they didn’t dominate and had several close games in states. Southern isn’t going to dominate like they did last year. Aliquippa played up to AAA and decided to do that once Southern whipped them in the state title game they knew southern was going to have the team they did. I said it before it’s easier to win a AAA title than it is a AA title. I expect Aliquippa to drop down to AA at the next cycle. That will depend on how they feel southern is doing at the time. My Carmel may have won a state title in 2018 if southern wasn’t there. Last year no.

  838. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, SCA and Wilmington won their appeals because the PIAA’s official look-back period was two years. For some inexplicable reason, the initial success factor rulings were based off of 3 years worth of data. So SCA and Wilmington appealed, and won. They didn’t even have to present their cases, the error was that obvious. SCA, specifically, had 4 transfers over the 3-year 2017-2019 period but only 2 over 2018-2019.

    Wood appealed based on player safety and lost. They, and Aliquippa, should have appealed because the PIAA instituted this rule after they had already volunteered up. I don’t think they would have won but it was a much better argument (and received sympathy from many) than player safety. The board basically smacked the Wood principal over the head with the program’s voluntary, 6A-laden schedule when he tried to make the player safety argument.

    Other ADs made a case that the rule discriminates against poor schools, which it obviously does. The PIAA probably would have granted that appeal if they only had 4 or 5 transfers. The one school (it was Farrell or Aliquippa, I can’t remember) had 20, though. That number of transfers is more than just poverty-driven, IMO, and why it was denied.

    But yeah, a straight success factor would eliminate all of these rulings, appeals, and arguments. It’s what they do in many other states.

    Also, I know you’re an area guy. Who’s your early pick in that Wyomissing-Southern Columbia game? Going to be a great atmosphere!

  839. Tornado Fan says:

    Although its not as a player, its exciting to see a Mt. Carmel Area alum excel at the highest level of professional sports.
    Best of luck to the KC Chiefs and GM Brett Veach in Super Bowl LIV!

  840. Dave says:

    Santa, you are a dreamer. Mt. Carmel likely would not have made it beyond districts this past season in 3A. Montoursville lost two games against two eventual state champions and also beat the Jersey Shore team you mentioned by 37 points.

  841. Foleman says:

    Lets face facts, the transfer rule was implemented due to the private schools and some charters loading up on transfers making already strong teams even stronger. All of the Public schools thought that this was a great idea to restore competitive balance in the playoffs. Then the success factor was added, and when the Public schools realized it was going to affect them just as much as the privates, they cried foul, and to some degree its not fair for the Aliquippa’s of the world who are a 1A school and now has to play 4A. For Southern Columbia, which wins more football championships than any other football team in the PIAA and just beat a team by 70 points in the final allowed to remain in AA is an absolute joke. Is their any info anywhere on why SC is allowed to stay at AA and all of the other schools minus St. Joe Prep and Hburgh had to move up? I would love to hear from someone in the PIAA on what criteria they use to determine who wins an appeal and who doesn’t. I would not be surprised in the future if some high powered School Board lawyer takes this to court and that would be the end of the success factor rule in the PIAA.

  842. JC says:

    This appeal business shows that the transfer rule just overcomplicates everything. Make it strictly success based. The worst thing you can do is put subjectivity into things, and that’s where we’re at. Any success factor that doesn’t bump up a team that has been as dominant as SCA lately is ultimately ineffective.

    And before you SCA fans start crying to me about having it out for you, it applies to any other school that is as dominant. Cathedral Prep is moving up. SJP has nowhere up to go. What are you doing?

  843. Santa says:

    About sca staying in class aa. Everyone thinks that staying in aa gives them a much better opportunity to win a state title. That’s false. The 2nd best team in aa last year was mt. Carmel in fact they would of won the state title if southern wasn’t in aa. Mt. Carmel also would of won the state title in class aaa. They also beat a jersey shore state semi finalist in class aaaa by 3 scores. So southern staying in aa is actually putting them in a much higher competition level at least in district 4. The top 3 teams next year from class a to class aaaa in district 4 are in class aa with southern mt. Carmel and Troy in that order. All 3 would win all 4 classes if they weren’t in the same class together.

  844. WarMeaks says:

    The * is because we’ll never know. AW is being forced up and wont get the chance to defend. They win too much. And they had 3 transfers over a 2 year span.
    But they never mention the 11 kids that left during that same 2 year cycle.

    @nw pa.
    You’re making my argument for me. They lost to penn hills, barely beat Gateway, barely beat Cheltenham. They are now being punished for pulling those victories out. They are right on par with those teams.

    On a side note, they will actually be better next year, had a very heavy junior laden team. But that still doesnt mean they should be forced up..

  845. D3 Mike says:

    SCA, you raise great points and I submit that there are lots of perfectly valid ways to view this topic.

    As far as “fairness”, it’s a subjective term that gets thrown around in this forum so often I’d be remiss to not address it. Personally, I don’t think kids are being “penalized” nor do I think it’s “unfair” to not get to win a state title. I appreciate that point of view and it’s probably the POV I’d have if I were from one of the schools on the short-end, here, but those still aren’t the terms I’d use.

    I worked a lot harder than a lot of the kids who got to play in Hershey last month. Ended up playing two sports D1. Guess what? Despite the talent and work ethic, I didn’t have Roth as a coach or 5 other D1 athletes on my team. As a result, I never even saw the state playoffs, let alone a state title game. Was that ”fair”?

    Is it fair to the kids who practice in urban Philly without goalposts while suburban districts have booster clubs to make sure players have whatever they need?

    Is it fair that land in Catawissa costs $3 an acre, making it a lot easier to hollow out a dying Danville and Shamokin and concentrate all of the talent in a given geography in one district?

    Is it fair that one QBs dad can fund the $7k tuition bills for promising transfers for his son’s team while the QBs dad at another Catholic school, can’t?

    I could go on and on. I said this forever ago during the public-private debate. It will never be “fair”, no matter what anyone does. It wasn’t fair when only 4 district winners made the state playoffs. It’s not fair for boundary schools, now. It’s not fair for poor schools. It wasn’t fair when we only had 4 classes. Someday soon, someone will make the argument that it’s unfair that 6A has such a wide range of enrollments … and we’ll suddenly have 7 classes. This will go on forever.

    The success factor is a utilitarian response: it’s intended to please the majority and a couple of programs lose out in the process. But the system will never be “fair”, with or without the success factor.

  846. Jut says:

    As far as the new state playoff brackets are composed, there shouldn’t be any byes since the last couple of years was a joke for all the byes. None made sense.

    For SCA not winning the Appeal congrats to them. I said this before SCA loves beating up on teams. They have so much fun with it. They get transfers but they come in at 8th grade level so they aren’t considered transfers and then they redshirt them. They will be at the AA level for a long time and will keep on winning titles but won’t move up to AAA.

    Your are right about District 7 didn’t run the PIAA. District 3 runs it. In my eyes district 3 should be split in half. It’s too big. It has all the power

  847. NW PA says:

    @warmeak: I wasn’t trying to stir up any sympathy for ECP. It’s a strange geographic situation. The WPIAL obviously has a ton of 5A teams and most of the rest are nowhere near Erie, but to put a team from Erie on the opposite side of the bracket from WPIAL is bizarre, they should at least play in the semi finals. With the lack of 5A teams on the western side of the state outside of the WPIAL there will obviously be traveling in the playoffs but the current situation makes it hard for the parents who have to travel a long way to see their child play. If it was the teams you route for I’m sure you’re care more. Also not sure what the asterisk is for? ECP doesn’t mind a challenge look at their schedule the last few years.

  848. SCA69 says:

    Intro: I was a forum contributor years ago, but took a hiatus for several years. However, I have followed the discussions. With regards to the PIAA’s “Success Factor,” and “Transfer” criteria to assign or reassign the classifications, I have a number of problems with its application. One is, why should a school, more importantly the players, be forced to “play-up” until they start losing? The scenario would be: A school wins for several years, then has to move up. That school then loses a few years, so it gets to move down. It then wins a few years and again has to move up. Why should those students who played in those years when the school moved up and suffered losing seasons, be denied the opportunity to compete against similarly sized schools and perhaps have “winning” seasons? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for those kids. Many may never play on an organized team again. If they dedicate themselves for those years they play to make themselves stronger, bigger, more skilled, etc., why should they be denied the opportunity to enjoy the success of their dedication? Two: The previous year(s) success is no indication for the future. Yes, there are teams, such as Southern, who have had success in their respective classifications for years, but for public schools, particularly such as with Southern, it is a reflection of the quality of coaching, the culture, school and community support, and numerous other individual and community factors. These factors and human elements should be rewarded and encouraged. Three: the whole purpose behind this “formula” is to make a school, and the players, lose! It has nothing to do with “fair” competition. Hey, if a wrestler wins states in his weight class, under this thinking, that wrestler should have to move up a weight class the next year! Or a pole vaulter who has won states the previous year, in the next year must vault a full inch, instead of a half inch, more than the next highest vaulter in order to win. If it is ridiculous and unfair to do it to an individual, isn’t it just as ridiculous and unfair to do it to a team?

    With regards to the “Transfer” rule, the PIAA needs to expand the “allowable” reasons to transfer. Society is much more fluid these days with job length of service. Right now, the average someone stays in a job is five (5) years! But, there are many other “legitimate” reasons for moving: family growth requiring a larger home, a desire to change one’s environment, being closer to areas that support one’s hobbies and life’s interests, and various personal opportunities. And some student athletes may live on the fringe of a school district boundary, but have close associations with students in a neighboring school district, why shouldn’t he or she be allowed to be on a team with friends from outside of school? If a student athlete has the opportunity to play for a team where his or her athletic abilities will get more readily noticed by colleges, thus affording that student athlete a greater opportunity to get a college scholarship…why should he/she be denied. With the cost of college education these days…this is critical to the future of that person. The coach of Aliquippa also mentioned the “fluidity” of families and students in their school district, which I am sure affects many others. If a student (not student athlete, but just student) can transfer for academic, social, environmental, and etc., reasons these should also be allowed for student athletes.

    However, I do agree multiple transfers in sports such as football and individual transfers of “exceptional” athletes in sports such as basketball, can effect the quality and competitiveness those respective teams. But only for those years that athlete plays. And if a student wishes to attend a private school and the parents are willing to shell out the money why not? However, the awarding of scholarships is another matter. The transfer issue is real, however having a winning history is not a reason to make student athletes move up a classification to make them lose. That is just not right. The NCAA has allowed the transfer portal for college athletes, why not allow some portal for high school athletes? Maybe the student athlete who transferred would not be allowed to play in the game in which his/her new team is playing his/her old team. But, would be allowed to play in other games and playoffs. But, that has its problems as well.

    It is a conundrum for sure. They used to have separate playoffs for private and public schools, maybe that needs to be reinstated? Also, perhaps instead of a winning school moving up, a school with a continuous losing record should be allowed to move down a classification? But, there are philosophical improprieties with that as well. Whatever solution should arise, it should not penalize.

    There is a change to the playoffs I would like to see. This observation comes directly from the playoff games between Southern and Mount Carmel. I am sure, in these past years, had Mount Carmel not have had to play Southern they might have gone far into the playoffs…maybe even reaching the championship game! There should be made available an option to a team like Mount Carmel to continue in the playoffs. They truly may have been the “second” best football team these past few years. Unfortunately, they did not have the chance to show that. Maybe, instead of districts, the playoffs are set up like the NCAA basketball playoffs, where the State is divided into four or six geographic divisions…NE, SE, NW, and SW and for six have central south and central north. The teams are then assigned (within reason) to play in these divisions so that the top teams do not have to play each other until later in the playoff bracket. Or a school such as in the case with Mount Carmel gets to choose a district in which it wants to compete for the playoffs. I mean, if the PIAA is so concerned with a good team winning too much, shouldn’t it be concerned with a good team “losing” too much?

  849. New2PA says:

    I don’t understand the asterisk comment? Penn Hills beat Wood a couple years ago and Gateway should have beaten them this year. And I’m pretty sure P-R isn’t any more worried about Wood that they were SJP. They may be good but aren’t unbeatable.

  850. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, thanks for the bracket info. I just saw on the PIAA website info posted (first reading/prelim) of all sports next cycle brackets, etc. (links below may be redundant):

  851. WarMeaks says:

    @nw pa
    So Erie gets a bye in week 11, then gets to beat up on Hollidaysburg in week 12. Teams in that district haven’t faired well recently in the playoffs. Oil city lost 41-0 to southern lehigh who then went on to lose to Wood 41-7.
    And you’re complaining about long bus rides after that?
    Like its anybody else fault that there aren’t enough teams in that part of the state.
    Should they just get a bye right to Hershey?
    Or should the other teams have to travel 7 hours so they can have all home games?
    Sorry man, I’m not breaking out the violin for that.

    Just be glad AW got forced up to 6A and keep the asterisk handy in the record books. ECP, P-R, Gateway. Whomever.

  852. 4th and Long says:

    Kevin X, I think you’re right about the districts and playoffs. I’d take it a step further, only take 16 teams and have it over Thanksgiving weekend. That’s still close to 20% of the teams in a class.

  853. NW PA says:

    @D3 Mike: The 5A bracket is indeed odd. There are no 5A teams in District 10 so Erie Cathedral will get a bye in week 11 and then have to play I’m guessing Holidaysburgh (which is nowhere near Erie) and then teams from the other side of the state 3 weeks in a row to make it to the semi finals. 3 hours bus rides to a neutral site so early in the playoffs is a joke and no team should have to do it.

  854. phillyboy says:

    How is it that Southern Columbia doesn’t have to move up to 3A? That don’t make no sense. That’s the epitome of where the success factor is applicable, are you kidding me?! I think the success factor is a nice tweak or improvement by the PIAA, phillyboy agrees with the premise, he’s all in. If a team chronically destroys their competition you’re darn right they should be forced to move up. Theoretically these teams should want to play up voluntarily but rarely do. I give semi props to Wood and major props to Aliquippa for stepping up to the plate, but some of these scalawags want to keep beating up on inferior competition despite the fact that they already have inherent advantages — what are they kidding themselves? If it were still 3 or 4 classes then I could see digging in at their natural class, but with 6 classes, come on, doesn’t pass the smell test. As has been pointed out the obvious flaw to this success factor system is that 6A teams can’t move up any more. Got to thinking though, over time the elite 5A or 4A teams will have moved up to 6A thereby giving the top 6A teams sturdier competition.

    One thing I’ll say about Southern Columbia though, they do have the wins streak going (48 and counting?), not too shabby. I give them consideration on that aspect. Big time streaks are always intriguing. Could SC set the state record and possibly beyond that?

  855. Brian says:

    Why should southern be embarrassed? I said it before and I’ll say it again. Had southern played up the past 2 or 3 years to 3A or 4A next years group would be forced to compete at the 4A or 5A level. Yes this graduating group could’ve possibly won the state title playing up a class or 2 but the next group will be tested in 2A. Totally unfair to make these kids play in 4A or 5A and get embarrassed in playoffs. Since southern has joined AA in 2014 they’ve won 4 state titles, lost in the state title game, and lost in their district semifinal. 2014 district semifinal loss. 2015 state title by no means mercy ruling everyone. In fact there were many close games. 2016 lost in the state title game when this graduating group were freshmen. Happens to be their only loss. 2017 state title but not all blowouts. Even in 2018 there were close games. Wilmington was tied 14-14 mid 3rd quarter until the wheels fell off for them. 2019 was really the only year they absolutely dominated start to finish. This won’t happen next year. They will be in close games and might win a state title but they can be beat next year. It won’t be easy and they will need to work for it like they did most years prior to this group.

  856. D3 Mike says:

    State College is a long shot to play Prep. They run a very good, clean program but are so well-known, statewide: a) because of PSU, and b) due to the fact that as the only major power in the area they are always playing late into the postseason.
    They have actually only ever won the Mid Penn commonwealth (Central Dauphin, Harrisburg, Cumberland Valley, etc.) outright twice – in 2008 & 2009.

    So to make the finals, State College would have to be the best team in a conference that they only win once every five or six years AND be better than the L-L league’s best team (Wilson or Manheim Twp)… then they have to beat the WPIAL rep, which I think they’ve only ever done once all-time. It’s certainly possible – it’s just not very likely.

  857. WarMeaks says:

    @kevin x
    If u feel like Southern should voluntarily play up, wouldn’t that be the same as not appealing the move up in the 1st place?

    Of all the teams to win their appeal, its the one that mercy ruled everybody in it’s wake. What a joke!

  858. New2PA says:

    Jeff H – you are correct on the 6A brackets.

  859. Tornado Fan says:

    I think SCA coach knows they will not walk through 2A like they did the last 3 years. They may win 2A again with their usual strong O-Line, the younger Garcia at RB and a solid defense but it won’t be a joke like it was last year. Unless they are getting any new transfers which I have not heard.

  860. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I will never pretend to understand the inner workings of the PIAA, any organization who forces a small 1A school like Aliquippa that is already voluntarily playing up 2 classes to play up another class and leaves Southern Columbia at 2A is a joke.

    @New2PA – agree this could be State College’s year to get back to the state final, although if I understand the brackets correctly they will have to beat both the D3 and D7 winner to get there, they did get to Hershey in 2009 after they beat a Woodland Hills team that was decimated by injuries after their slug fest with Gateway for the WPIAL title and lost to LaSalle 24-7.

  861. Kevin X says:

    @ WarMeaks

    Why should Southern Columbia be embarrassed by winning their appeal?? This may be the only time I ever come to SCA’s defense, but who should be embarrassed in this whole success factor situation(s) is the PIAA. As far as I am concerned at the moment (we’ll see how things play out over time and if any tweaks are made to the system in the future), this is a classic case of taking one step forward, and two steps backwards. SCA played the cards that were dealt to them by the PIAA, and won their hand. Do I think they should still voluntarily play up?? Absolutely, but they are under no requirements to do so.

  862. mark d says:

    Now that Southern has won thier appeal they will not be playing Dunmore.Dunmore will be playing Wyoming area in that week.Willimsport .will stay at 6A so their will be a change with the 6A teams in D2.i also noted that Berwick will not be playing any lackawanna conference teams ,but they are going to play Southern i also believe that Wyoming area is keeping Southern on the Schedule it all get finalized next week so them we will know for sure

  863. New2PA says:

    Kevin X – Check Kevin Harlan on twitter for the brackets. He posted all of them last night,

  864. New2PA says:

    X, seems to me P-R got a huge break at the state level in this. 2020 will be their best team since 2017. Can probably beat everyone in 6A – except SJP. They are moving down to 5A and WPIAL will avoid both Imhotep and Erie Prep until the finals. Not sure what D3 has (Warwick?) but out here its now its P-R, Gateway and possibly Peters Twp. And those last two are quite a bit different that PCC and NA.

    I will be interesting for me to learn new teams and go to new venues. Hoping for big things from P-R in this two year cycle. P-R was down 50 boys from last cycle. I’m curious if they will keep dropping.

  865. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, they aren’t officially published but one of the reporters took a picture of the meeting agenda with his phone and posted it to Twitter lol.

    Here’s a link to the Twitter pic (at bottom):

    Or to blow up the brackets a bit easier you can follow Chris Harlan on Twitter and then scroll back to the evening of 1/22 when he posted these.

  866. WarMeaks says:

    Southern Colombia should be embarrassed by winning there appeal. Who are they afraid of in 3A ? They must really love boatracing there way through the 2A brackets. Cobra Kai. No mercy!!!

    Seed the teams 1-64 in all classes.
    I dont care how far the bus ride is.
    Neutral sites are only 3+ hours away in any direction.

    Wood might be a top 10 team next year and have to play SJP in the round of 64 or 32 at best.

  867. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    Do you have a link or location on where we can find the prelim brackets??

    @ New2PA

    I’ve been banging that drum for some time now about just scrapping the districts and going for an even 32 school, 5 week playoff bracket, laid out with some geographical and seeding sense for each classification. But like you alluded to, pretty much a pipe dream, at least for me.

    You guys do realize this 6A talk is all about state runner-up honors, right?? St. Joe Prep is going to be better next year than they were last year, barring numerous season long injuries and/or departures to their key players. Even with McCord and Trotter out the second half of the season, they still pretty much cakewalked, other than the PCC game, to the 6A crown.

    Looser in this is Wood, assuming they that will be required to play up two classifications to 6A. They’ll be bounced in the first or second round next year. I’m sure not many tears are being shed with regards to this.

  868. New2PA says:

    D3 Mike, I mentioned this in another forum, but the districts are so lopsided, that many of those subregionals are necessary just to get close to WPIAL 5A/6A numbers – even though they are down.

    For example, in 5A the subregional that plays D1 in the Semi’s (D2/4/6/8/10/11/12) only has a 16 5A teams total by my count. WPIAL 5A has 18. They both go to the Semi. Its not perfect, but it doesn’t make sense to make that subregional even smaller so that the D7 one was bigger.

    Getting ride of districts would help balance things, but that’s not happening.

    In 6A, NA or PCC will be playing State College in the Semi’s IMO. If there ever was a year for State College to break through to the finals, this is it. NA and PCC will both be down after big losses to their lines. NA has the Dinkins kid and PCC has Donald and the RB, but they both have to replace a ton.

    P-R has them early in the year in crossover games, so I will know more about them then.

  869. Jacob says:

    District 2 schedules are out. Southern Columbia playing three district 2 teams for the next two year cycle. Berwick week 1, Wyoming Area week 4, and Dunmore week 9.

  870. D3 Mike says:

    Preliminary brackets are up. My understanding is that no byes will be allowed for any district except in Week 11.

    Jeff, is the current PIAA board comprised of mostly PCC/NA alums? Not only does PR drop to 5A this cycle, but now the PIAA swings State College back over to the D3 quarterfinal, gives D7 the lightest semi field, AND matches the WPIAL winner back up with D3 in the semis of 5A/6A. Yes, that’s how it used to be but demographics in the state plus the move to 6 classes have changed the balance of schools at the higher classes.

    Off the top of my head, the four 6A semi brackets are now comprised of something like 33 teams, 24 teams, 24 teams … and 14 teams? Regardless of the exact numbers, these look like great changes for D7-6A (and 5A for that matter). Not complaining as much as pointing out the unbalance and that the timing seems odd considering that the west is bleeding big schools.

    Also of note: ECP and Imhotep would play in the 5A quarterfinals. Talk about a bus trip.

  871. D3 Mike says:

    September 22nd, 2019 at 8:12 am
    “[Nick Singleton] was non-existent against Wilson a few weeks ago. He can continue to rack up his gaudy yards and TDs against the sisters of the poor. Besides, Wilson has plenty of RBs of their own who are just as good…”

    Apparently Coach Day doesn’t read this forum or else he might have withheld the offer that Ohio State extended to the sophomore, this afternoon. Singleton is already the most heavily recruited RB to come out of District 3 since LeSean McCoy, if not ever. They are nowhere near the WPIAL teams (or ECP for that matter) but look for his Governor Mifflin squad to challenge Warwick, Manheim Central, Imhotep and the usual suspects in District 1 for top billing in the “east” in 5A over the next two years.

    In other offseason news from District 3, Bishop McDevitt has once again added Harrisburg to its already brutal schedule. McDevitt is presumably in some sort of competition with Berks Catholic to attempt to finish 5-5 yet still win D3-4A. Barring transfer drama, Harrisburg will probably be the favorite in D3-6A next year.

    Finally, the Lancaster-Lebanon and Berks leagues have resumed talks to form a 36-team football-only mega-league (presuming Kutztown drops) for the 2022 season. It looks like both sides really want this to happen to improve scheduling, so I’d look for the merger to get wrapped up by the end of the 2020 season.

  872. Jeff H says:

    @New2PA – I think Aliquippa is getting screwed by the PIAA, it’s ridiculous to force a small 1A school to play schools week after week with 3 times their enrollment. They will certainly win some games but will be totally over matched come playoff time and it won’t be pretty if they have to play TJ.

    @WarMeeks – i know you said in jest District 7 runs the PIAA, if that’s true why the hell did the PIAA deny Aliquippa’s appeal to stay in 3A!

  873. New2PA says:

    PIAA denied Alliquipa’s request to not be forced to move up. Unless they appeal and the PIAA Board overturns the ruling, they will be playing 4A. Very tough level for them.

  874. mark d says:

    Has anyone-out their heard the rumor that Berwick is planing to move to the heartland conference in D4????

  875. TepPro says:

    Imhotep has 2 Freshman that went on and balled out to make NCAA Freshman All American in football Congratz to Omar Speights And Tykee Smith for putting up All American stats as freshman congratz 2 future Imhotep NFL players.

  876. New2PA says:

    Anybody know if ECP (to 5A), Imhotep (to 5A) or Wood (to 6A) are appealing their success-formula-moveup?

  877. Kevin X says:

    To follow-up my previous post…….

    9 current NFL head coaches played high school football in PA …

    Kevin Stefanski
    St. Joe’s Prep

    Joe Judge
    Lansdale Catholic

    Sean McDermott
    LaSalle College

    Matt Nagy
    Manheim Central

    Matt Ruhle
    State College

    Mike McCarthy
    Bishop Boyle

    Frank Reich
    Cedar Crest

    Bruce Arians
    York William Penn

    Vic Fangio

  878. Kevin X says:

    With the recent hire of Kevin Stefanski by the Cleveland Browns, there are now 3 current NFL head coaches with Philadelphia Catholic League roots. Stefanski (St. Joe Prep), New York Giants recent hire Joe Judge (Lansdale Catholic) and the Buffalo Bills Sean McDermott (La Salle). Must be that recruiting thing…….

  879. Frank G says:

    @ Michael R

    I think we have a chicken and egg situation here. I understand colleges cast their nets as widely as possible. But I think the quality of the coaching varies a whole lot from high school to high school and to a considerable degree the more successful the program the better the coaching–though of course I realize that there are very good coaches in HS programs that don’t have winning records let alone state championships. I’m thinking of kids who come to high school without a lot of experience playing organized football–and that might be a majority these days–and who because of size or body type become linemen. I’d argue it’s a big advantage for those kids to have good players/models ahead of them, longer seasons (because their teams go deeper into the playoffs), high standards that are clear and achievable, and coaches who can help them reach those standards–through all four years of high school. And of course it’s also helpful if they go to a school that will prepare them academically so that their choice of college is wide and they are truly able to be academically successful in college.

    If we look at which high schools produce the largest number of student-athletes with college scholarships we can argue about how much of a factor the particular high school was and how much of a factor the underlying talents were. Adolescence can be a difficult and sometimes a dangerous period. Parents have to decide (among other things) which school will help their sons come out in the best situation on the other side.

  880. 4th and Long says:

    Michael, 100% agree about a kid leaving a public school for a better academic situation. Often the reasoning is just athletic, but that’s really neither here nor there… it’s still the family’s choice. I’m not 100% sold on the total separation like NJ, but having lived there, I don’t see how it’s been bad for the public schools either. Non-boundary recruiting based on athletics is rampant in SE PA and while there might be a few “dog bites man” instances of boundary schools skirting the rules, those same rules make it perfectly legal for non-boundary schools to recruit. How much worse can it get for public schools who are already surrounded by privates that are constantly whispering in their best athletes ears?

  881. Michael Robbs says:

    @4th and Long it will hurt public schools because when you separate ie NJ and MD the gloves come off and recruiting will now become an open accepted process and you will see what has happened in Maryland and New Jersey. I get district 1/12 argument to a degree a kid from Garnet Valley going to St. Joes Prep, like WTH. My disagreement is where a kid from the Philly public schools going to a PCL or an Allentown SD kid going to ACC or Beca. How in the world can we blame these kids for leaving school districts like that for private schools that are going to help them change their future in a positive way? And I don’t mean football scholarships, I am taking and preparedness for college, which you are not going to get in those school districts, and anybody who argues that is ignorant, they are bettering there situation. I am not a private school guy, but I understand both sides of the argument, and I honestly think that people on the private school side are just as ridiculous. If you only see one view and cannot step away to see the other side of the argument, then it is just ignorance.

    @Frank G you could not be more wrong about being recruited by lower-level schools. All Division 1 schools from Ohio St to Temple to Villanova to Bucknell buy recruiting reports from companies such as CSD, National Preps, XO’s, etc all companies which do not charge kids or their families. They get these names by calling, emailing, and visiting every high school and getting prospective names from the actual high school coaches. Often times (a majority of the time) HS coaches see their kids as playing at a higher level than the kid can actually play at. So what happens is an HS coach will think one of his players is a D1 kid and when evaluated by college coaches they do not see him as a D1 kid, that is when the argument usually becomes well I didn’t go D1 because of my team. 99.9% of HS players end up at the level they should be playing at or a level above where they should be playing. The other .1% of players that we hear about from D2 and D3 schools going to the NFL were oftentimes not developed coming (body type-wise) coming out of HS and were developed in 5 years of college football. D2 and D3 schools visit almost every school in the state during December and January. I can assure you no college coach would ever not stop into a school to see a kid because of where they play football. Those are just facts.

    And my point is as above and I am using a hypothetical is a kid from Garnet Valley does not need to go to St. Joes Prep or AB Wood to get a college scholarship.

  882. 4th and Long says:

    Michael, why do you think separating publics and privates would hurt public schools? Kind of funny that those on the forum in favor of separating them seem to be from the SE districts (1/11/12) while those opposed seem to either be fans of PCL programs or from another part of the state. Unless you’re from those districts, I think it’s hard to understand what it’s like for the boundary schools there. As we speak, eight of the top teams in the Philly Inquirer’s SE PA boys basketball poll are non-boundary programs. While having separate boundary/non-boundary state champions probably isn’t palatable, maybe there are other solutions.

  883. 4th and Long says:

    D3 Mike, West Catholic is AA and Aliquippa is A playing up to AAA.

  884. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Still all this talk about Southern Columbia. The beat goes on and off the field. Makes me want to buy a Championship T-shirt from the tiny school nestled between two cornfields. From a Dunmore bucks fan.

  885. Frank G says:

    @ Michael R

    You’re right that Fleming gets recruited regardless of his high school team. But good programs with good coaches can really help kids who play less high-profile positions (i.e. linemen, defensive backs, etc.) improve their skills and get noticed. They rarely wind up in the SEC or the Big Ten, but their chances of getting offers from Bucknell, or Colgate, or Sacred Heart, or Maine, or … are higher.

  886. Brian says:

    The argument with the transfer rule isn’t the actual transfers. It’s the fact that any new kid on the roster is considered a transfer. Freshmen not varsity last year, 8th graders now freshmen on varsity, a kid who didn’t play in 10th or 11th but this year decides to go out for football are all considered transfers. Now all the coaches at schools who have reached the success points have to appeal that because They will all be over the limit of transfers due to new names on rosters. Don’t get me started on success points. A team like Lackawanna trail who didn’t win a stars title during this cycle, but because they went far in playoffs they would need to move up if they are over the transfer limit but a team like Farrell who has won back to back state titles would not need to move up if they were under the transfer limit. The idea is a good one but the guidelines used to determine it doesn’t make sense.

  887. Michael Robbs says:

    Certainly Southern Columbia is one of the best programs in modern day and Pa football history. I’m really asking this question, was is it even fun for Southern Columbia this year? They clearly saw this group coming as a special group, with a Division 1 QB a class ahead (a kid who did not live in soco sd btw). Why didn’t two years ago they decide to move up and play 3 or 4A for 2 years with this group coming through? I personally think they would have won every class except 6A this year. And I honestly don’t think it would have been close.

    Anybody who thinks that private schools don’t have it easier are crazy. But I guess my question is what are private schools selling or recruiting kids on? I can assure you that you do not need to be on a winning team or play in a certain league to be recruited. It is almost impossible to be under recruited in today’s day and age. Julian Fleming could have played for a 1A school somewhere in north central pa for an 0-10 team and Ohio St would have recruited him. If you don’t believe that you are naive and do not understand recruiting. So what are they selling them? Poor facilities? Paying tuition? No home stadium? Wearing a uniform every day? Success recruits itself. Kids were coming from all over to play for George Curry and Mike Pettine, because the success recruits itself. In today’s day and age with social media all of these kids are friends it’s not the traditional way everyone grew up, the kids “recruit” each other at private and yes at public schools too.

    The worst thing this state could do is separate public and private, it would be a huge mistake. One that would hurt the public schools much more than the privates.

  888. D3 Mike says:

    Brian, 2015 was the last time PA had 4 classes for football. That year, Southern Columbia played in 2A and went 16-0 en route to winning the state title. The last four teams they beat in the playoffs were Montoursville, Berks Catholic, West Catholic, and Aliquippa. Those four programs spent the past four years in 3A, 4A, 3A and 4A, respectively.

    So when I say I think SCA should have “played up” it is partly because they already PROVED that they could beat the elite 3A schools, and beat them without a superclass stacked with D1 players. It was their choice to stay at their enrollment for 2016-2019; I just would have made a different choice, especially considering the talent they had coming up (the argument about them having to play at 4A in 2020 if they had made that decision is moot; no AD knew about the transfer rule when those class choices were made. And they’d be fine in 4A, anyway).

    And here we are, 63-1 and 3 mercy rule state titles later, and SCA is STILL trying to avoid 3A… where they may have to face in the 2020 district and state title games **gasp**… Montoursville and Aliquippa? Do you see where I’m getting at here? They’ve spent decades playing these programs. They won what is now 3A in 2015. They probably would have won 3A from 2016 thru 2019. They’ll be preseason #1s in 3A in 2020… but (some of) the program/fans are still whining about the transfer rule and spouting nonsense about “participation trophies”? I just don’t get it. Good luck with the appeal, I guess.

  889. Brian says:

    You’re entitled to that opinion. A team that has the ability to pull kids into their program without a boundary is going to have a better chance winning. I’m not saying wood had any but I do know several other schools in the Philly Catholic League had athletes on their team from out of state as far as Texas. I believe one kid won a state title in New Jersey and since their season ended earlier transferred into a school in the PCL to try and win a state title in PA. When the PIAA doesn’t have the rules in place to prevent that it’s easier to win. I believe some athletes even play at one school for one sport and then transfer into another school for another sport season. As regards to Southern not playing up I remember when they were in class A they were told that if they played in AA they’d never win there because they’re just a small school a small school football doesn’t count. They’ve been in AA for 6 years now and have won 4 state titles and lost in the state title game another year. Now people say move up to AAA or 4A and yes this group could’ve played up 2 classes and probably won some of those years and with the success factor rule now, If that was the case this in coming group would maybe need to play 5A. That would be greatly unfair to this group that wouldn’t be able to compete because they’re not as close to being talented like this past once in a lifetime group. There are few 4A and no 5A schools in their area. There are several teams that have a case for team of the decade and Wood is definitely one of them. However I will always pick a public school over a private school and that’s just my opinion.

  890. Brian says:

    You are allowed to have your opinion Kevin X.

  891. Kevin X says:

    @ Brian

    Mmm, sorry, I’d have to go with Wood for that hypothetical team of the decade. I had to use two hands to count the number of state championship won, and that would be six. And by the way, the most recent 3 were all won by “playing-up” in classification, a foreign concept in SCA Nation. Just curious tho, that gaudy regular season record that you quoted, outside of this past season, how many of those games were played outside of District 4??

  892. Frank G says:

    @Jeff H You say that the dominance of a few teams is not good for the health of the sport in the state. Maybe that’s true, but I wonder if it applies to all classes. I also wonder if SJP’s success in the last seven years (five state championships and one other appearance in the final) is really a reason District 11 has been down and District 7 has had, according to some, fewer strong teams than it used to have. And would Neshaminy, Pennsbury, North Penn, etc. be better if SJP were weaker? I’m not asking because I’m sure the answer is “no”, but I need some convincing the answer is “yes”.

  893. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, WarMeaks and phillyboy……..dang guys, all very well stated. Much appreciated, you all saved me a ton of typing 🙂

  894. WarMeaks says:

    Like I said, a few years ago, Wood was absolutely 6A. New coach, new philosophy. He coaches whomever shows up.
    All the “recruiting” nonsense is overblown bs. If he’s recruiting, he’s not very good at it, otherwise, they’d have more kids.

    To me, the difference between 1A-4A is minimal. The biggest jump in class is from 5 to 6.
    Any team in 6A is being sacrificed to SJP moving forward. Who Wood plays every year in the pcl and hasn’t beaten recently.

    Happy New Year EPA forum peeps !

    We all know District 7 runs the piaa.

  895. Brian says:

    Team of the decade Southern Columbia Tigers. 138-9 record. 97-3 regular season record. 9 district titles. 2 PIAA runner up titles. 4 state titles. Currently on a 48 game win streak. Currently on an 86 game regular season win streak. Now the incoming class needs to keep the tradition going.

  896. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, not exactly. If they had lost to Gateway they would have still played in 2 state semi-finals this cycle. That’s 6 points and enough to move up regardless.

    Warmeaks, no, most of those 28 games were not against D12 and overmatched D11 schools. 11 were. Here is the list of ALL PIAA games (so no D12) for Wood this decade:

    2010 Strath Haven 24-14 (4-time state finalist)
    2011 Pottsgrove 44-21
    2012 Interboro 35-7
    2013 Academy Park 42-14
    2013 Berwick 42-14 (7-time state finalist)
    2014 Great Valley 44-7
    2014 Somerset 63-20
    2014 Central Valley 33-14 (2-time finalists)
    2016 Whitehall 56-13
    2016 Academy Park 37-0
    2016 Harrisburg 37-10 (2-time finalists)
    2017 Wyoming West 41-14
    2017 Unionville 49-29
    2017 Gateway 49-14 (1-time finalist)
    2018 Hollidaysburg 38-7
    2018 ** Penn Hills 13-20 (2-time finalist) **
    2019 Southern Lehigh 41-7
    2019 Gateway 24-21 (1-time finalist)
    2019 Cheltenham 19-15 (1-time finalist)

    So in the PIAA playoffs this decade, Wood went a combined 18-1 against public schools. That’s against DISTRICT WINNING boundary programs, many of them 13-0 and 14-0, some of whom have PLAYED FOR OR WON STATE TITLES. These are NOT overmatched D12 publics. These are 18 wins against elite boundary programs in Pennsylvania, and Wood stomped them by an average score of 40-13. It’s clear from these results that if they are still recruiting and winning at level X that they need to be moved up to level X+1. I don’t think “net transfers” is a bad idea to account for the outflow of talent but I mean, really guys. Look at those results. This isn’t the program for which you should be grasping the violin.

    And to echo Kevin… Happy New Year’s everyone!

  897. Kevin X says:

    ….and not to go out on a sour note for the year, based on my last post, so Happy New Year’s all!!!

    I enjoyed (for the most part) reading your opinions and your personal, inside and local information. See you all next year!!!

  898. Kevin X says:

    This is copy and paste from Twitter (my version of a retweet) from Jeff Reinhart, high school sports reporter out of Lancaster. Unfortunately, I think he is spot on with this. As I have once again transitioned from live football games to live local high school basketball games, both boys and girls (actually, more girls games) I’ve been noting this more and more. Maybe it’s the cozy confined indoor quarters of a high school gym, which enhances this nonsense, but I could say it also translates to the few soccer, field hockey, lacrosse and baseball games that I have attended recently. Football is no exception. You guys are going back and forth with the success factor stuff, the age old private vs. public debate, recruiting, whining about unfair advantages, etc., but I think this may be the biggest under the radar issue across all of high school sports in this state rate now, the boorish behavior of fans (from choice of language right up to shootings) and the current, and will most likely get worse, shortages of officials. I get why they have no interest or quit. Why deal with this crap??

    “This close to a column about fan behavior at high school basketball games. And remember, I cover girls games. Not that it matters either way but … I can see why referees simply don’t want to do this. It’s brutal.”

  899. Jeff H says:

    I find it amusing you guys use the term “punished” for schools being forced to move up due to long term success with multiple state titles. Those that are successful in life challenge themselves, and when a school dominates a particular classification for years, particularly the lower classifications, it is entirely logical to challenge yourself and your team by playing tougher competition in the playoffs, and should in no way be viewed as punishment to the kids. You SCA fans act as if its your birthright to get to Hershey every year, just another game on the schedule. It seems obvious to neutral observers like myself who have followed football statewide for decades that certain programs should play in a higher classification commensurate with their stature as one of the elite programs in the state, I made the same argument to guys on the western board for years about Erie Prep, I just don’t think a school with their rich history and tradition should be playing in 4A, and the same can be said about SCA in 2A.

    What I don’t agree with is forcing schools to move up that have never won a state championship, or have not won one in recent memory, like Lackawanna Trail and Wilmington, for example. I also have reservations about schools that are voluntarily playing up already being forced to play in a higher class, and yes that includes Wood. They could have easily lost to either Gateway in the semi-finals or Cheltenham in the final, and they most definitely got a big break when Derrick Davis was unable to play, if he plays and is 100% Gateway likely wins that game and we’re not even having this conversation about Wood. Now if Wood continues to have dominant teams like that had in 16-17 that were head and shoulders better than everyone else in 5A then yes, they should play in 6A, but based on their teams from the last 2 years, and the fact they are already playing up a class, I don’t think they should be forced to play up for the next 2 year cycle, if they were to stay in 5A and win the next 2 titles I would probably feel differently for the following cycle.

    For those of you not paying attention high school football is on the decline in this state and many other states, with much lower participation rates, and the overall talent level has dropped considerably in this state, and for a few schools to continue to dominate year after year is not good for the sport in general, all I’m saying is take a look at the big picture and don’t focus on your individual school that you are affiliated with.

  900. Santa says:

    From the North Pole santa wishes everyone a merry Christmas. Looking down from the North Pole at my point of view I believe they should let southern drop back down to single A after the hit from graduation. We all would hate to see them play in a state championship game in which they don’t mercy rule there opponent by half. Santa votes sca for single A to keep things competitive. Have a merry Christmas and happy new year

  901. WarMeaksWa says:

    I appreciate everyones opinions, but again, specifically for Wood,
    They are 4A by enrollment.
    Not every student goes there to play football. Believe it or not.
    Probably 2A by roster size.
    Only had 32 kids dressed for the title game. Not because their wasn’t enough room on the bus, but because thats all they had.
    Had to cancel their last jv game because they didnt have enough healthy kids.
    Catholic school enrollments are in a downward spiral. At one point Archbishop Ryan was the largest school in the country. Now I hear they are moving down to 4 or possibly 3A.
    Judge is also moving down to 5A.
    If Wood goes up to 6a, Judge would be the lone pcl 5a team and get 2 byes in the playoffs. Would play ppl champ in the round of 16. Thats a joke. Like I said before, they need to get rid of district 12 at the 5A level.
    Someone said wood is 27-1 in the playoffs. Most of those are against bad d12 teams and overmatched d11 schools.
    5 years ago, I would agree, they were a 6A team. They are nowhere near that level nowadays. Just a solid 5A team.
    Won last 2 games by a total of 7 points. Scored in final seconds to win both.
    Its not like they steamrolled their way to a championship. They earned it the hard way.

    Where do the successful 6A schools go?
    SJP, PCC, Central Dauphin, etc
    Pine Richland is the only team in the state to beat The Prep in the last 3 years and they are moving down. ???????????

  902. phillyboy says:

    Dag, D3 Mike, if that’s your last post of the year you went out with a bang. I must say, earlier in the year IMO you had the one liner of the year when you said, paraphrasing, ‘Nowadays players would rather sign up with Mater Dei, Alabama or the New Enlgand Patriots rather than try to beat them.’ — that was awesome.

    To Southern Columbia nation: just got to get something off my chest, why are you guys so defensive about staying at the 2A level? In case anybody was curious about phillyboy’s take on this, I absolutely think the Tigers should have played up, big time. Did you want me to lie to you and tickle your ears or tell you the truth?! Flat out, SC should have played 6A for this past 2 year cycle. I even posited this idea a long time ago, to no avail. It’s not my fault you guys didn’t consult with phillyboy or at least privately heed his generous advice. Yes, everybody knows they’re a 2A team and have a phenomenal program and all that. I disagree with the premise that it’s a punishment to have to class up. Meanwhile a lot of people suspected that this particular group was special. Should have ambitiously gone for it, at least for this cycle. This team was awesome, 100% phillyboy approved. For all intents and purposes it was a foregone conclusion they would romp through the schedule just like they did. So why not seize the opportunity when everything lined up just so. It’s very possible they might have beaten Prep had they played. Las Vegas odds so to speak, Prep would be favored but I DO think they could have won this hypothetical game. Yes, there’s a risk involved, but you got to pay to play, higher risk higher reward. There’s a chance they could have failed and wound up with no state chip at all. In that case you know you would have won the 2A title, but now you’ll never know if you might have done something really special. Could have been watching a movie about this team a few years down the road.

  903. 4th and Long says:

    I agree with both Frank and D3 Mike. SCA, I’m not necessarily a fan of the “success formula” and understand your point. In my observation, dominant public school programs are the result of three things 1) a good coaching staff 2) a group of good football players and 3) a community where football is part of the culture. If you’re missing any of the above, you’re only going so far. The problem is you now also need freedom from having “your” best kids leave for a variety of private schools. Consider yourself lucky regarding the location of Southern Columbia, or things would likely be a lot different. It only takes a few kids leaving to drastically change a program. On another note, why not just have one classification and play for one state champion if that’s what we think it’s all about?

  904. SCA Fan says:

    Well said WarMeaks. Agree 100% Forcing SCA and these other schools to move up. Why? Because their players and coaching staff work harder and prepare better than their opponents? Why do we punish KIDS for outworking their opponents. How can you punish the next class of kids for what the classes before them did. They don’t deserve to be moved up because of what the classes before them accomplished. THEY’RE ALL DIFFERENT. They deserve the same chance not punished. Everyone just wants to see the successful programs lose so they come up with new rules to try to get them out. Ridiculous! Its not youth soccer where everyone gets a participation trophy. Instead of punishing the successful programs how about the other programs stepping it up instead of crying about it. If you cant run with the big dogs then you dont deserve to be in Hershey. Last time I checked the NCAA didn’t make Alabama or Clemson move up to the NFL because they won multiple championships!!

  905. D3 Mike says:

    I was blessed to have parents (and grandparents) who sacrificed to send me to parochial school for 13 years. And yes, the academic, character, and tuition requirements winnow the field of potential applicants. But the fact that Archbishop Wood has gone 27-1 this decade IN THE PLAYOFFS against elite boundary schools which, by everyone’s own admission HAVE GREATER ENROLLMENTS should end all discussion on this topic. If you really believe that year after year, class after class, Wood athletes just “work harder” and the program simply “outcoaches” all ONE HUNDRED opposing programs in 5A that all have larger enrollments than they do, you reside in a faux meritocratic fantasy land.

    The kids at Wood work very, very hard. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone who said otherwise. But so do the kids at lots of other schools. The Wood coaching staff is outstanding – among the best in the state. But so are the staffs at other schools. Wood competes for a state championship, literally every year, because they have all of the above – AND they do it with better players. Same with Prep. They’re pulling from a population pool of millions to build their teams (whether they recruit or not, it’s irrelevant). I’d never say they didn’t 100% earn their titles but let’s call a spade a spade. The PCL programs where the talent concentrates – IF they work hard – should beat ANY boundary program in 5A or 6A. That’s just how genetics and demographics work based on any reasonable appraisal of the concepts.

  906. Frank G says:

    @ 4th and Long
    I don’t think anyone would argue with you that it’s an apples and oranges situation or that there are clear advantages to not having boundaries. But many if not most of the private schools have some disadvantages or constraints that the public schools don’t have. 1) Many don’t have their own home fields or even an on-site practice fields. 2) Some have academic requirements that exclude some applicants from ever enrolling and that sometimes result in student athletes leaving, usually during or after freshman year. 3) All apply fees, aka tuition. Some think all or most student-athletes have their fees waived. In fact, most families of student-athletes must pay substantial fees. What makes the situation complicated is that most private schools also have needs-based financial aid programs, and it’s no surprise that a relatively high proportion of the families of student-athletes qualify for such programs. Some schools also get donations that enable them to increase the amount of support for the families of students who play certain sports. But the point is that just about every family–and my guess is that there are no exceptions–that sends a son to a private school winds up paying hundreds and often thousands of dollars a year (for books, for transportation, etc. in addition to actual tuition amounts) that they would not have to pay if their son went to a public school. There is an argument that this sacrifice increases their sense of investment in the school and the program.

    It’s also the case that not having boundaries is more of an advantage to some private schools (because their locations allow them to draw from a wider pool, e.g. SJP) than it is to others (e.g. Bishop McDevitt).

    The boundary vs non-boundary issue plays out differently depending on the sport. I think just about everyone would agree that for most sports (e.g. soccer, baseball, track, wrestling, swimming, cross-country, etc) it’s not a big issue.

    As for football, I wonder for how many of the six classifications it’s a real problem. If it’s only one or at most two, is it worth making a big change? And if, say, boundary schools win the 6A championship in ’20 and’21 are we likely to hear as much complaining? One thing that seems certain is that if they separate boundary and non-boundary schools we will see the old debates, such as the one in ’03 about whether SJP or NP was better, resurface.

  907. mark d says:

    i have been told that SCA will scrimmage Valley View next year as both team are looking for a tougher scrimmage

  908. 4th and Long says:

    WarMeaks, few have an issue with kids going to the best opportunity for their particular situation, but let’s get real. Many private schools recruit athletes. Public schools generally have to play with the kids within their boundaries.I want to take nothing away from the great coaches and players at the privates, but the playing field is not level. Boundary schools outnumber non-boundary schools roughly 8:1, yet the ratio of state championships and FBS athletes skews much more heavily in favor of non-boundaries. if you want to believe it’s strictly because of coaching and hard work, that’s your right, but it’s a slap in the face to the kids and coaches busting their tails trying to do more with less talent at a typical public school. I agree the success formula is less than perfect (putting it mildly) and I have my own ideas about how to remedy the situation, but the PIAA isn’t asking us.

    On another note, PPL schools look like they’re full throttle filling out their 2020 FB out of conference schedules, so it appears what I heard about them waiting to settle whatever (if anything) is going on there to do out of conference scheduling was in error… mea culpa.

  909. David Mika says:

    Merry Christmas!

  910. Brian says:

    D3 Mike it’s also rumored southern will open at Berwick to start the season. I find it ironic Berwick waited until this group graduated to get this game. Berwick was decent the past few years and that game would’ve drawn a crowd. This will still draw a crowd too. Carrmie knows how to be Roth ask southern as well. I think he’s done it at Danville, shamokin, and mt. Carmel. Interesting to see if it takes place.

  911. Mcd65 says:

    Well said Frank G and WarMeaks..

  912. WarMeaks says:

    I read pennlives 50 players to watch list before championship weekend in hershey. You figure 12 schools, an average would be 4 kids per team listed.
    Wood had 1 player on the list. And they are 5A.
    Where are all these high profile transfers everyone seems so concerned about?
    Guess what? They dont have them!
    That screams of great coaching.
    These kids should be given the chance to defend next year, not punished for being too good.
    Hey Wood,
    Your kids lift too hard,
    Run too long,
    Practice too serious,
    Your coaches,
    Watch film too long,
    Game plan too well.
    Now go play schools with three times your enrollment and 2 times your roster size.
    What a great lesson.
    Breaking new: Everyone gets a state chip in 2020.
    When will the Ncaa move Mount Unuon into Div 2 and North Dakota St into the FBS? They also win too much.
    And Clemson should be in the NFL.
    And Uconn womens hoops should have been moved into the mens tournament long ago.

    Catholic Schools are few and far between nowadays, hence the extended boundaries, and guess what, it aint cheap to attend them. Thats a serious con, not a pro. It excludes a lot of kids. And anyone that thinks they can go to these schools for free because they are a great athlete, is just plain ignorant.

  913. FrankG says:

    @Phillyboy and Craig Jones You both seem to believe that kids who get coaching in a public elementary or middle school have an obligation to go to the local public high school and/or that their parents have an obligation to send them to the public high school. Is the main motive of the coaches to feed the public high school so it can field best team possible or is it to help the kids develop sport-specific skills and all the traits that come with playing a sport? The parents in question have an obligation to pay taxes that support the public school system, but they also have an absolute right to send their children to whatever school they choose. And the vast majority wind up paying tuition and other costs (which can be considerable) at the private/Catholic school.

    Many kids who go to Catholic elementary schools and many who play on CYO teams in various sports wind up going to and playing for public high schools. I’ve never heard anyone complain about that, and if I did I’d say they were wrong to do so.

  914. The Joneses says:

    @craig Jones the flaw in your logic “Easton and the public schools have programs, the catholic and privates are finishing schools” assumes these schools only do well because of students coming from public to private Catholic schools. It does not take in consideration the number of students who were never in public school, the work the student puts in outside of school and the coaching, training received at the Catholic/Private schools. We are have certainly watched talented teams loose or be underachieve because the coaching is poor.

    While Kyle Pitts was at Abington HS (public) they tried to make him a QB on offense because he was one if not the most athletic player on on team. He didn’t have the interest or head for it, less he was wasting away. He transfers to Wood and the rest is history in the making. Is he at FL and looking like a NFL prospect is he stays at Abington? I for one wouldn’t risk my sons future trying to find out. That finishing put him on a greater path.

  915. The Joneses says:

    @Phillyboy Let me get this straight. You want a child to give up the opportunity attend a school placing them in a better situation than their current one for “the greater good”? Who’s greater good, the PIAA? The people who are angry at the top teams for winning? Is “all about my glory” referring to educational and recruiting benefits or playing for a program with high academic greater exposure to top tier scouts. The deeper team goes in the playoffs the more opportunity to be seen by coaches.

  916. phillyboy says:

    @ Craig Jones– Appreciate your sentiments, well said. Respectfully disagree with D3 Mike on this one. It’s a situation where a little righteous indignation is understandable. It’s a joke, you put in all the blood, sweat and tears and then someone comes along and cherry picks your best fruit. Either that or the kid decides to go to the ‘finishing school’ forgetting any semblance of loyalty, it’s all about my glory at this point, not the greater good. Btw, major respect to the Easton program — didn’t they have a team somewhere around 2000 that was the #1 ranked team in the nation or close to it, don’t know if that was a misconception of mine or what. I grew up in South Jersey in the 80’s, public teams like Paulsboro, Absegami, Phillipsburg were legendary. Even Jackson Memorial (by Great Adventure) had several individual state champions. Nowadays seems like Camden Catholic, Bergen Catholic and several other North Jersey privates greedily gobble up all the elite wrestlers to a large extent. It’s a joke.

  917. D3 Mike says:

    Mike Drago reporting that Wyomissing and Southern Columbia have agreed to an October 3rd game next year. If SCAs class-up holds, that could be a preview of the 3A eastern final. Props to both schools for scheduling what should be great inter-district action.

  918. D3 Mike says:

    Craig, in summary: in the past, you coached ten-year-old boys hoping that they would eventually wrestle for the local high school team. Then, when some left for athletic, academic, or social reasons – or, maybe just because their parents always intended to send them to Catholic high schools – you proceeded to hold grudges against children?

    Take solace in this statement: when you stopped coaching (AKA selflessly donating your time), youth wrestling in the greater Lehigh Valley area was forever changed.

  919. Craig A Jones says:

    I read all the comment’s below and let me tell you my main problem with the catholic and private (charter} schools. I used to coach youth wrestling, I did so because I thought the kids I was coaching were going to be Easton wrestlers. Naïve I know. But, after seeing them being developed by the Easton system. (some were also gifted football players) many transferred to the privates. Then I have to hear from Notre Dame and Bethlehem Catholic what great programs they have. Easton and the public schools have programs, the catholic and privates are finishing schools, building on what the public schools developed. Look at Notre Dame wrestling this yr, not 1 kid came thru a CYO type league. They ought to thank the public schools for developing all these great athletes for them. Let me repeat they are not PROGRAMS but finishing schools. By the way if your wondering I didn’t go watch any of the kids I coached who transferred on the high school level. Petty, maybe, but I didn’t donate my time for a kid to transfer to a private school.

  920. Phil Myers says:

    I agree with D3 Mike and have always alluded to the idea of a straight ‘Success Factor’. If you are successful you move up for the next cycle. No appeals, no nothing, you move up. This would automatically envelope those schools that have transfers and are successful. The point of it being the top programs who are pretty much successful year in and year out move up. No one has to change their conference or even their regular season schedule, they just play up for the playoffs, period. No one, but the schools affected, is going to complain. And probably half the schools affected are not going to say much either. Is there any question that SoCol, Farrell, Erie Prep, etc should not move up with a straight success factor? No. But, tying in transfers they just convoluted things and it makes the PIAA look silly.
    An argument against the success factor, which by the way works well where it’s been installed, is that the school is going to play larger enrollment schools. That should only be true for the playoffs unless the district makes you change your regular season schedule. Secondly, if you won states or went to states a couple years in a row, obviously you can compete. Besides, most of the schools we are talking about have more kids on the roster than most schools they play during the season, so enrollment has nothing to do with it or else Reading and Butler would have great football teams. Another argument is that it was the senior class that succeeded. Maybe it’s the occasional case, but most of the time SoCol, Farrell, TJ, Erie Prep, McDevitt, etc. are going to be good year after year. If say a Wyoming has to move up for 2 years, they’d move back down if not successful. Again, for the regular season it does not have to be a completely different schedule and in most districts it would not be.
    Six classes are here to stay. No question about that. I believe a straight up success factor is the next step to try to level the playing field so to speak. No questions about public vs. non-public schools. The Success Factor plays no favorites. It is what it is and life goes on. Maybe coaches, ADs, and players can contact their PIAA rep or reps and get them on board?

  921. JerrySpringer says:

    After reading comments, my final thought is you will always have the haves and have nots, no matter what the PIAA does it will be unfair to someone. There are just too many factors year in and year out that can effect teams. Everyone made valid points but balance and fairness is inherently impossible. I was always of the mindset of having one class crazy I know but to me the least interference is the most fair. Or if schools really are that upset leave the PIAA for that respective sport and start your own league or play an independent schedule.

  922. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Curious to hear your thoughts on the other point JC made, that of Wood and Imhotep also having to play up (he seems fine with it). I agree with both you and JC on the Quip situation, but where are you with Wood and Imhotep??

    Also, feel free to correct this, but several years ago I saw on this board that the reason Aliquippa is playing up to 3A had to do with being able to stay in the same similar conference that they were playing in prior to the PIAA going to 6 classifications. Supposedly the WPIAL makes the rules out there (believe you mentioned that when it comes to scheduling) and that they form the conferences as well. If Aliquippa stayed as an “A” classification, they would be playing other schools in a different conference, and they wanted to remain geographically near the teams and rivals that they have been long associated with. They seem more than able to compete and hold their own at the 3A level, but the decision to play there (3A) was not so much of a competitive angle, but more more of a continuity/historical issue. Not my words, just repeating what I remember seeing here previously.

  923. mark d says:

    wait every freshman moving up to the varsity is a transfer ???? That makes no sense shouldn’t that be part of you size number how many males are in the school ??? how are they transfers they been going to that school . As for the non boundary school moving i have no problem with that. they can recruit they can get kids from anywhere a team like Aliquippa plays up all ready and they can get kids form Aliquippa only !

  924. D3 Mike says:

    The PIAA had good intentions with the success factor but dropped the ball on specifics. Then they made it worse with poor execution. Winning got mixed up with transfer restrictions, and then the rules were applied, retroactively. What a mess.

    The new transfer rule was already having an impact. They should have just added a straight success factor like many other states have done and kept the transfer issue separate.

    As it stands, this rule is far too top heavy. It should apply to more than 1-2 programs per class. Just watch the whack-a-mole that is 4A as ECP and Imhotep are forced up… leaving the door open to McDevitt and Beca to dominate this cycle… before getting forced up, themselves, just in time for ECP and Imhotep to drop back down.

    Not to mention that for all we know, Farrell had 3 transfers while Clairton and Guilfoyle each had 10. It shouldn’t just be schools with 6 points in a cycle getting penalized if this rule truly intends to limit transfers.

  925. Kevin X says:

    Wonder how many of these “successful” schools/teams will actually just “Man-up” and say “bring it on, let’s play some football!!!”

  926. Brian says:

    Jeff H you do realize that Southern played the AAA champ Wyoming area in the regular season (week 8) and won 42-0 and also Montoursville, state semi finalist that lost to Wyoming area in week 9 and beat them 35-0. So yes they would’ve mercy ruled their way through AAA this year too. Southern was blessed with their D1 talent this past 4 years so don’t expect them to
    Mercy rule everyone next year. They may be successful but it won’t be like the past several years. This graduating group could’ve played in a higher class but the future classes won’t be able to. That would be so bad if southern would’ve played 3A or 4A the past cycle and earned the success points and were bumped to 5A for the next group because next years group would get killed in 5A. Let’s face it southern beat jersey shore mercy rule and jersey shore was a semi finalist so Southern would’ve reached the success factor in 4A as well. They would have to play in 5A next year with a new group. They would have to play in some type of district sub regional because there are no 5A teams in D4 and then matchup with an archbishop Wood after that. Totally unfair for next years group.

  927. PCL Fan says:

    A few things here:

    This article states that every single new name on a varsity roster is considered a transfer. So anyone new that joins the team, or any freshman player moving up to the varsity roster is considered a transfer. This is a very backwards way to handle this.

    Here the article is confirmed. Every team with over 6 points has been informed they will need to move up based on an appeal.

    Here is another article that shows the PIAA changed the number of allowed transfers in the middle of the football season. Originally when this formula was announced in 2018 Five transfers were allowed for football. Shouldn’t an effective change be made before the season begin?

  928. JC says:

    There are a few issues with your response. You talk about jumps in enrollment between classes. What’s not important is the numerical increase, but the percentage increase. The jump from 3A to 4A is 45%. The jump from 1A to 3A is 112%. The jump from 1A to 4A is 209%. The enrollment parameters themselves are set up to approximate general percentage ranges, so talking about pure numbers is completely irrelevant.

    I do not have significant quibbles with private vs. public. I think it is ultimately best to keep the playoffs combined, and all teams should be subject to the same success factor rules. The transfer rule clearly needs some tweaking. However, when it comes to appeals, I do think Aliquippa deserves more sympathy for already playing up 2 classes voluntarily, than Wood or Imhotep do for voluntarily playing up one class.

  929. Rob says:


    Actually your logic isn’t sound at all. You’re doing a bad job of using other topics to cover up the fact that your issue is a private vs public issue. The rule being talked about is transfers + success in the classification you currently play in, so Aliquippa having a case and Wood/Tep not having a case makes no sense in that regard. As far as playing up two classes? The jump from 3A to 4A is almost the same in enrollment numbers as the jump from 1A to 3A. The jump from 4A to 5A is actually a bigger enrollment number jump.

    So instead of using bad points/arguments, why not just come out and say this is a private vs public issue? St Joe’s Prep, Wood, Imhotep, Erie Cathedral have been dominating the 6A 5A and 4A classifications and people are tired of it. All year I have read people say Wood will have a down year this year, they only have 35 kids on the roster, someone on here even said they would finish under 500 this season. And then they go and win it all.

    In my opinion the transfer rule will probably end up hurting more than it will end up helping. Lets say Wood is forced to move up to 6A for the next two years. They get eliminated by Prep both years before the state playoffs even start so they’ll have no success points. When it comes time to reclassify they will either be a 3A team or a 4A team. Lets say they decide to stay in the same classification their enrollment numbers put them in. You really want to watch Wood go play a 3A schedule, then a 4A schedule, then finally back to a 5A schedule for two years each?

  930. Jut says:

    Looks like PIAA are doing something with success factor. Finally having teams play up to level out the classes. Which makes sense. If they didn’t want to level out the classes then why even have them? Just have one class. So this makes perfect sense to me. Having wood, SCA, Imhotep, Farrel all piling up a class with them making it to the final year in year out. Why not? Looks like Robert Nolan is alil mad SCA is moving up a class. Look buddy you we all know who Southern played last year we know their Schedule has plenty of Aaa,Aaaa teams. And yes they beat Wyoming a state champion. Look it only fair they move up a class. They will probably win AAA too but atleast they will play a whole game and not just til half time. It’s silly they mercy ruled like 40+ games in arow.

    No idea how PIAA are moving Lawanana Trial up to AA, confused by that. Made state finals once and not like they were unbeatable any of those years. But hey maybe they will give Dunmore a game in AA in district 2.

  931. Brian says:

    Hey Robert who is the other running back you speak of that are the two best in the state? I’m sure Gavin Garcia is one of them. Not sure who the other is that you mention. Also don’t be so sure southern is going to 3A. They are appealing because apparently PIAA considers any knew name on the roster as a transfer. So if you’re a freshmen and playing varsity that gets counted as a transfer. If you were 9th last year but not varsity and now in 10th you count as a transfer. Didn’t play football as a junior but going out for it your senior year, yep you’re a transfer. I think they say southern has like 37 transfers because of new kids from 8th or 9th grade. Now they have to send in all the paperwork to verify who is who. Apparently when it’s all said and done they’ll end up with 2 transfers in the previous cycle. Therefore they’ll stay 2A. Then again this whole success factor and transfer rule is so freaking confusing that I might not have it all straight either.

  932. WarMeaks says:

    Wood lost to district 7 champ Penn Hills in 2018 in the semis.
    Beat district 7 champ Gateway by 3 in the waning seconds this year. Gateway was without there was best player.
    I dont hear anyone clammoring for those schools to move up. Looks to me as if they’re right on par with those other 5a teams.
    Wood lost 3 games this year.
    Got mercied by Prep in the 1st half 42-0
    Lost to 6A Roman. 20-6
    Woods problem is that they waltz into the quarters every year. They have a bye into the round of 32 because there has only been 2 5a schools In the pcl.
    And they only have to beat a down Ryan program to advance to the sweet 16.
    Then they play the ppl 5a champ to advance to the quarter finals.
    The solution is to do away with district 12 at the 5a level and move them into district 1.

    The transfer thing is a joke. U can’t prevent a kid from transferring into your school. Everyone assumes a transfer is some ringer recruited to play football. Thats ludicrous. Sometimes its just life. Maybe the kid didnt like the school, or didnt have any friends, or his family moved. Whatever.
    Of woods 24 man freshman team last year, only 14 remain at the school. They are probably minus 8 in net transfers.

    Cant wait for the day coaches have to cut players from the football team because it may affect there class status. Is that what we want?

    Woods coaches deserve a ton of credit for taking a 35 or so man roster to the 5a state championship. Their o-line averaged about 210 lbs. And everyone acts like their some bully picking on smaller schools.
    They put in the work. Period.

  933. Jeff H says:

    In light of the new success factor/transfer rules applying to schools already voluntarily playing up like Aliquippa maybe SC was onto something by not playing up the last 2 years, had they played at 3A they would now be forced to play 4A for the next 2 yr cycle, when they will still be very good but won’t have nearly as much D1 talent as this years senior class. I was not aware until the last few days the new rule applied to schools that were already voluntarily playing up. Like others I do give the PIAA some credit for trying to address the problem and imbalances that exist, but I don’t necessarily agree with the way it applies to schools that are already voluntarily playing up, especially boundary schools.

  934. Mike A says:

    ‘I’m just excited to be back’: Newly approved Cumberland Valley football head coach Josh Oswalt eager to bring new energy, new scheme

    Oswalt said he plans to honor CV’s storied history as one of District 3’s most successful programs while bringing his own “flavor” to the team.That, in part, means a new offense.

    Oswalt will not adhere to the strict Wing-T offense the Eagles have run with success for decades. He’s known for a spread scheme he ran at Carlisle and Central York — turning Billy Burger and Eric Harris into two of the Mid-Penn’s top QBs while with the Herd and later grooming Cade and Beau Pribula with the Panthers — and many of those same concepts will come with him to the Eagles.

    But, Oswalt said, he will tailor the offense to his players once he meets with each of them individually in the coming days and weeks and assesses their skills. The Wing-T won’t entirely disappear, as Oswalt grew up in the system and runs some of his spread offense with Wing-T concepts, he said.

    “It’s gotta fit the kids,” Oswalt said. “And I think that’s why we’re so successful as a staff, we’re so good at identifying what worked for the kids.”

  935. Racer X says:

    Story in today’s Sunbury Daily Item about SCA moving up. Roth crying about it. What a joke, he said he only had two transfers the last two years. He is appealing it. I thought SCA could beat any body, any classification. There were posts on here about them beating SJP this year. Guess they feel better about putting 70 on AA teams. First game next year with Berwick. Coach Carm knows how to beat southern, he did it at Shamokin and I believe he was the last to beat them regular season when he was at Mt. Carmel in 2011.

  936. Jeff H says:

    @Robert Nolan – do you seriously believe it will be easier for Southern Columbia to win 3A than 2A? Since most of the teams they already play in the regular season are 3A or 4A why haven’t they been playing up voluntarily like Aliquippa has done for the last 3 decades. I do think they will be the favorite in 3A and will likely win the state title next year, but to say it will be easier for them to win 3A is a ridiculous statement, as both Wyoming and Central Valley were much better than any 2A team they have played in the playoffs the last few years.

    @JC – you are spot on, completely agree with your logic. Aliquippa is a 1A school with 117 boys, and have voluntarily been playing up for decades, 2A in the old 4 class system, and now 3A since the move to 6 classes. So a small public school does the right thing by playing up 2 classes commensurate with their outstanding long term tradition of excellence and they are punished by the new rules, only in the eyes of the PIAA does this make any sense whatsoever. I sincerely hope the PIAA has enough common sense to agree with their appeal, because forcing them to play 4A is ludicrous, they win 1 state title in 4yrs in 3A, and their neighbor schools in Beaver County can compete with them favorably, this is a classic case of if it’s not broke don’t try and fix it.

  937. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G yeah that’s what I thought/Think about any impact to the prep. Oddly enough it has the chance to push more kids there.

    @JC & Rob I have no sympathy for Wood or Imhotep, I think the PIAA will since they are by enrollment already playing up. Sure some schools play up two levels. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked either way.

  938. Foleman says:

    Robert Nolan, Wyomissing has 16 starters back next year, probably their best team since the State Championship team. They will give Southern Columbia some competition so I don’t think it will be easier for them to win AAA than AA next year. I can’t wait for the battle of the Wing T’S next year. You will also have Neuman Goretti to deal with and they are loaded with talent. I don’t know what the West has in AAA next year. Also, Pope John Paul is moving up to 4A in the East.

    The Joneses-St. Joe Prep wont skip a beat if the PCL leaves the PIAA, they have built a national powerhouse and they are also one of the top academic schools in the State, student athletes will continue to flock there for football.

  939. Kevin X says:

    @ Rob

    You saved me some typing.

    @ JC

    Your hoops point tho is spot on. Actually, probably not far enough. I’ve said this before, if the PIAA is going to separate public/private schools for playoff purposes in any sport, it should be for basketball (boys and girls).

  940. JC says:

    @Rob: Aliquippa is a boundary school playing up two classes. Imhotep and Wood are non-boundary schools playing up just one class. So, yes, Aliquippa has a case and Wood and Imhotep get no sympathy. I think my logic is perfectly sound.

  941. Frank G says:

    @ The Joneses The Prep will lose very little of its appeal to potential students/players if a separate PIAA classification is set up for private school or even is the PCL leaves the PIAA as long as it uses the extra space on its schedule to play other high-profile programs.

  942. Robert Nolan says:

    For all of the SCA haters out there you are going to get your wish. Southern will be playing in AAA next year which actually is a gift from the PIAA. SCA, for all of you who do not know, beat the AAA state champion during the regular season 42-0. Most of the teams they play during the regular season are AAA or AAAA so they are more than prepared for moving up. In fact, it will be easier for them to win in AAA than it was in AA. As for what they have coming back next year. They lose 17 seniors this year but have kids moving up who played half a varsity season last year as subs. They will have two of the best running backs in the state and an offensive line that will be second to none. Will they win a state title in 2020? I think a lot of people will be surprised. The Tigers are reloading and will be ready to take on all challengers next season.

  943. Rob says:

    JC – so Aliquippa has a case because they are already playing up?

    Wood and Imhotep get no sympathy……even though they are also playing up???

    Sound logic there

  944. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    Wood does have an appeal case in my opinion. They are 4A by enrolment that played up to 5A to begin with. Have less than 40 players combining JV and varsity. Had only 3 players transfer in, only 1 of which ever saw the field. Lost multiple starters including their leading rusher from 2018 to public school. Sounds like a solid case to me. People are being blinded by recent success and not giving the coaching staff credit the credit they deserve for getting everything they could out of a very small roster.

  945. JC says:

    Aliquippa has a potential appeals case, since they are already playing up from 1A. No sympathy for Wood or Imhotep, hope PIAA holds firm on those. Overall these moves would be an improvement over the current landscape, there is no cure-all solution but I gotta say, this whole success factor might work. Looking forward to seeing how it impacts basketball, which desperately needs the help.

  946. Kevin X says:

    I mentioned this as an impending mess not long ago. I was too kind…….

    “UPDATE FROM THE PIAA: “These 8 have the points and they have been identified as possibly having the amount of transfers. Appeals will be made at January board meeting”

    Bob Greenburg

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

  947. The Joneses says:

    Someone posted SJP would loose it’s recruiting edge by not playing for a PIAA state championship if the PCL left. I’ve seen it discussed here and knowing Prep strives for a National championship, as well as a state championship, does anyone think they will loose the edge?

  948. Tornado Fan says:

    From Bob Greenburg on Twitter:

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

  949. Kevin X says:

    Some copy and paste action from Twitter……..

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

    I understand Wood is appealing. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Imhotep and Aliquippa doing the same. Let the fun and games begin!!!!!

  950. D3 Mike says:

    Per Bob Greenburg (D10 broadcaster), the 8 schools moving up per the PIAA success factor, pending January appeals:

    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)* #
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*

    * Move up from current class per PIAA success factor rules
    # Aliquippa’s loss to Central Valley was considered a “round-of-16” game by the WPIAL but is being considered a quarterfinal game by the PIAA, giving Aliquippa the requisite 6 success factor points for the cycle

    This is obviously unofficial but Bob is pretty reliable when it comes to his sources.

  951. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    I know nothing, forgot about the whole situation actually. Do you know if they just put out the same bid for the same work?? Meaning they appeared to want to reconstruct the whole stadium and area with the first proposal, and surprise surprise, bids came in way over estimate. Maybe they should look at doing things piecemeal and prioritize things. Think we can agree a new turf field might be the first priority.

  952. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    Thanks for the acknowledgment!! You can add Tyreek Chappell as another high profile player jumping from the PCL (Ryan) to Northeast.

    @ Mcd65 and Phillyboy

    Where are you guys getting that the PCL is looking to leave the PIAA (or saying that they should leave)?? Did I miss the memo?? I know there was some rumors on this board (I believe first presented by 4th and long) about the PPL maybe leaving the PIAA. I see no reason why they (PCL) would or should. They more than hold their own in many sports on a statewide basis, unlike the PPL. If anything, like I said before, they should divorce themselves from the PPL and District 12, grab a bunch of the smaller private schools in District One on their way out, and form their own district.

  953. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Per MaxPreps, there are four 8-man teams in PA. Two in the western Philly ‘burbs, the Perkiomen School, which I’m guessing is not far from K-Town, and one that I never heard of. So a few teams around, and not horrible travel. Just thought it might be an option, a fresh start, new beginnings, getting in on the ground floor, etc. I did see that K-Town is advertising for a new head football coach. So don’t know what exactly that means as far as the future of the program.

  954. Frank Gavin says:

    @ phillyboy ad Mcd65 I thought I submitted a reply yesterday, but maybe I neglected to hit “submit.”

    I’m sure the PCL could survive outside the PIAA. Whether it would thrive is another question–possible but not certain. The picture is different for different sports, and for most (e.g. soccer, wrestling, track, baseball, etc) I don’t think there’ve been any concerns about the PCL’s membership. I know basketball is different.–

    As for football, it’s clearing a fluid situation across the state. The number of schools dropping the sport could become more than a trickle in the next five years or so, and the gap between strong programs and weak ones could become even wider. I’d love to see some stats whether my sense that there are a lot more blowouts is correct. If it is correct, the gap is likely only to widen, accelerating the dropping of football by some schools–mostly public but some Catholic. This is one reason I don’t think things will return to the pre-2008 era if the PCL (and maybe other Catholic schools) leaves the PIAA.

    As for the PCL, it’s gone from southern/northern divisions, to red and blue, to four–or was it three classes–and then back to red and blue (with some schools changing colours) in the last 20 years or so. A couple of schools could close in the next five years and it’s possible one or two will drop football. Right now I’d be surprised if Ryan is playing in the Red for more than another year or so.

    If the PIAA creates separate classes for private schools, the Prep would still have a state championship to play for and at least a couple of more open dates on their schedule when they might choose to play more high-profile teams from DC or North Jersey or Ohio … Maybe they’d also play one or two Inter-ac teams. Not long ago they had some well-attended games against Malvern. And maybe some of the Jesuit schools that aren’t so far away (St. Peter’s in Jersey City, Gonzaga in DC. St. Ignatius in Cleveland–all schools with good teams that the Prep has already played) could organize a yearly series of games. The point is that the Prep doesn’t need the PIAA to attract attention to its program and its players–though they’d probably prefer to remain in the PIAA.

    The Prep could also decide not to put as much emphasis on football. It’s not Notre Dame with alumni and pretend-alumni making donations and buying gear in amounts closely tied to the football team’s W-L record. I suspect they will want to continue to have a strong, high-profile program, but it may be a very long time till there is another class with the equivalent of McCord, Harrison, Trotter, Hagens, Cooper, and Talley putting on their jerseys.

  955. D3 Mike says:

    Most of the stickiest problems related to high school football and basketball in this state would be resolved if D12 just left the PIAA, so if the PCL is leaving, you have to promise to take the charter schools with you 🙂 Seriously, the net benefits of statewide competition flow into the city, not back up the Main Line. I’ll never forget moving to Tacony in 2000 and the way everyone talked about PCL programs that, outside of Philly, no one on planet earth had ever heard of nor could have cared less about. And no one on Torresdale could find Berwick on a map. That’s your ideal?

    If you really think these young men and women would be better off reverting to the unbelievably parochial, insular athletic environment that existed prior to 2008, I’d say you shortchange the benefits of the PIAA that extend far beyond raw competition. Whining about transfers and tedious rules aside, diversity of experience for young people and their communities is actually a good thing. As adults, we should be pushing for more of that, not less.

  956. sausmann9 says:

    not sure what was so offensive about the link/article regarding Southern Columbia football and the explanation as to why they are who they are. but Allentown Morhning Call has the article and info.

  957. Buddy says:

    et al

    North Penn put out bids for a new stadium this month. Anybody hear anything?

    It’s got to get done. Stadium is an embarrassment.

  958. Mcd65 says:

    PhillyBoy, I mention those situations because not many on here know about them, I do want the PCL out of the PIAA as much as you do , BTW Notheast is building a solid program and have attracted other transfers as you probably know, The PCL will continue to be competitive with or without the PIAA, I think many fans are tired of all the nonsense , If the PCL does leave I look forward to the moaning about transfers between boundary schools and other unfair advantages some schools have LOL, BTW I saw CB WEST a couple times this year and IMO Jack Fallon their RB should receive lots of recognition ,

  959. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, who would they play? I don’t know of any 8 man football teams they could play and how far would they have to travel to play them? Several football teams in Berks County have had problems scheduling other schools, especially Berks Catholic and Wyomissing, that’s one of the reasons why the Berks teams were pushing for a merger with the Lancaster/Lebanon schools which I believe will eventually happen. When? Who knows. If Kutztown drops football this year, Berks 2 football schools will be scrambling to find replacement teams to schedule and might have to have an open date if they can’t find any teams to play.

  960. phillyboy says:

    @ Mcd65 — I appreciate the nostalgia that you and Frank G mention from time to time. With your recent post about the transfer of 2 players from Wood and McDevitt to William Tennent and Northeast, I feel compelled to respond. Believe this is the second time you commented about this, this year. First of all, William Tennent is one of the worst programs in the Suburban One and Northeast is the least worst team in the Public League — so it doesn’t really matter. If the kid had transferred to say Coatesville or North Penn your point might carry a little more weight. Technically speaking, you’re right, there are some isolated examples where a public will get a favorable transfer. To cite this though as your basis to say ‘See?! Everything is fair, they do the same thing’ at best lacks meaning, at worst is like pointing out the splinter in somebody’s eye while ignoring the rafter in your own.

    phillyboy has always been a proponent of having a pure state championship and NOT having separate public and private tournaments, and I stand by that. However, recently some of you guys have been implying that the PCL may leave the PIAA and go independent to the detriment of the rest of the state. LOL — phillyboy to the PCL: Don’t let the door hit you in the bootox on the way out. The PCL needs the PIAA way more than vice versa. If they lost the ability to compete for state titles, they would lose some of their recruiting pitch. They would still have the early season sexy interstate match ups but after that it would be totally anticlimactic.

  961. Mcd65 says:

    D-3 Mike, I nominate you for the new D-3 commissioner.

  962. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Do you think or know if K-Town would consider 8-man?? I believe that is going to be much more popular in the coming years here in PA, like it or not. Something for Holy Cross up in D2 to possibly consider as well.

  963. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin X, Thanks for the information you provided us this year. I know it takes time for research etc .Hope to have you continue your input. Separately, Im sure most on here know that 5 A finalist Cheltenham had 4 Archbishop Wood transfers on their team and a couple of them contributed a great deal to their success. Additionally ,Woods star RB transferred to William Tennant for his senior year. I do not have an issue with this except the players can choose to attend a PCL school and transfer any time to a Boundary school , Another example is Northeast getting McDevitts best RB and he was their leading rusher this year. If you think that these just occur IMO YOU ARE KIDDING YOURSELF. Someone gave a recruiting pitch for these to happen. Now with the residency proposal. The PCL should withdraw from the PIAA instead of putting up with all this legislation attempting to level the playing field. PIAA just say St Joe you are too dominate for us so goodbye, I for one would like to enjoy my PCL games from now on regardless of affiliation with the PIAA without all this BS. Congratulations to each of the State champions this year and a big shout out to Southern Columbia .

  964. David Mika says:

    Very well said, Phil!

  965. Phil Myers says:

    Southern Columbia is the best small high school team I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen quite a few. Before the arrows start to fly, I am from a 4A school district in the western part of PA. They are technically sound athletes who have worked really hard and have some of the best coaching in the state. They don’t miss tackles, miss very few assignments (and if they do, they don’t make the same mistake twice), they hold blocks, they block downfield, they adjust on the run, they have team chemistry,they are just fundamentally sound. They only started two kids who play both ways, only St. Joes, had less, not C.D., not TJ, not Wood, just St.Joes had less kids play both ways. That is unheard of for any school at any level, let alone a little 2A school.

    They defeated (mercy ruled) two state champs – Hammond, S.C., who had a few D-1 prospects themselves and Wyoming. They also beat 2 semi-finalists and 2 quarter-finalists. Four of the sixteen teams they played only had one loss and that was obviously to S.C. Two other teams only had two losses. Eleven of their sixteen opponents had winning records and the overall wins and losses were 144-63 (almost 70%). That’s rare in high school football. Including the Hammond team, 8 of their 10 regular season opponents were of a higher classification 3A or 4A. They do not ‘run’ up scores as they only accounted for 190 points in the second half of games (avg. of 12 per game) and the majority of those were scored by second and third teamers. Coach Roth even had the team take a knee on extra points throughout the year.

    You could write a book on team and individual accomplishments for the year and the seniors’ career. I guess I said all of that to say, appreciate the team and what they did if you are a high school football fan. Hopefully you saw them play, because that storm will never happen again at a school that size. It’s a public school from Pennsylvania, not IMG Academy or some big city private school. Yet, still people want to hate on them. Why? Because they are winners? They do not recruit. They do not break rules, they are just a small school in the middle of nowhere with a reputation of winning because A) they have a coaching staff that is innovative and has the best training techniques and staff available and 2) the kids are 110% dedicated. I live in the country too and if you took the best kids from the twenty or so teams in my area, never since football was invented could we have ever come up with a team like that. Appreciate and embrace these guys, don’t cut them down! Kids matricualte to winners, but it’s a public school. There are boundaries. These kids could have competed with St. Joes and would have a real could shot at beating Thomas Jefferson. Nobody else I saw this year do I think they could not beat. Not saying they would, but just saying there was no one else in the state they couldn’t have beaten in my opinion.

  966. Jeff says:

    Look I get it everyone hates the guy on top it’s what makes sports great. The Patriots, the Yankees, the Lakers, all teams alot of people hate. I get alot of people put Southern into that category as well. People complain about recruiting this and that, but if you look at this class these kids have been at Southern since elementary school. Half the kids who are playing a division 1 sport in college had parents who graduated from Southern and have been there for forever. Recruiting is a major issue 100% but how is Southern recruiting kids in elementary school??? I doubt Jim Roth was seeing these guys in pee wee football and handing them a brochure after the game. I hate when people bad mouth Southern that don’t understand the culture of the program. As a kid you dream of playing football on that field and as soon as you reach middle school you are in that weight room waiting for your chance. They just know how to run a successful program. The people in that school district are crazy about football and you can see that with how they travel. I understand why Southern is hated so much, but don’t try and make for why other than simply put you hate them because they are successful. As for the class that graduates this year thank you for the best high school football team I’ve ever seen.

  967. Kevin X says:

    Haverford’s Trey Blair de-commits from Buffalo and commits to Temple.

  968. Mike A says:

    Central York’s Josh Oswalt to be next football coach at Cumberland Valley High School

  969. Kevin X says:

    @ David Cochran and FrankG

    Why stop at out of state kids?? You had the Boyertown girls soccer team win the 4A state championship this year. One of their players was a German exchange student and member of the German women’s U-16 team. Kennedy Catholic’s basketball team was basically an international all-star team the past year or so. I’m sure there are quite a few international exchange students participating in interscholastic athletics throughout the state. Just another PIAA bureaucratic potential admin and legal mess you are stirring up with a “PA” resident only rule. Seem like these transfer issues, out of state students, etc., type of issues always come back to SJP or other successful PCL teams/schools.

  970. Foleman says:

    Apparently the squawking about S. Columbia’s football team dominance has moved to the wrestling arena. I will say this, my son wrestled one of these kids listed years ago at a youth tournament, he was talking with the kid and he pointed to the Garcia’s and 1 other kid and he said we are all going to be wrestling in HS together, I looked at the teams the kids were wrestling for and they were all outside of S. Columbia’s district. Makes you wonder about some of these things listed.

    A lot of kids move into the Southern district but do so early on. After 6th grade then repeat 6th at Southern. Its a nice School District surrounded by some rougher Coal Region areas with a dynamic football program. I cant exactly blame parents who would choose to move there. Just please physically move.

    Allegedly The QB previously who is currently at Bama was pretty much driving from a different district to Southern every day. Was common knowledge according to rumors I heard. The school he left didn’t contest the transfer and I even heard told him he wasn’t going to play there. Just what I heard.

    As far as wrestling goes. Not going to say they recruit or any of these guys weren’t for legit reasons but I’ll point out these kids as coming into the district at some point. ll let you judge. Any team gets 2 or 3 of those guys and your team dynamic changes.

    Todd Lane
    Billy Barnes
    Shane Casey
    Preston Zachman
    Gaige Garcia
    Gavin Garcia
    Patrick Edmondson
    Cole Biscoe
    Wes Barnes
    Max Tillett had 2 brothers who wrestled some. Tillett May or MAy not wrestle but was a PAJW state champ.
    Sean Sprague for 1 year than left

    That’s just off the top of my head.

    Is what it is, but its hard to compete against that.

    Even with that this football team was once in a lifetime. They even lost a D1 commit off of the team who went to Berwick.

  971. Kevin X says:

    @ Dave (and I’m assuming not Mika)

    What does a transfer, or transfers, have to do with success?? They may, or may not. Kind of blanket statement. No way you can accurately determine a transfer’s affect on a team’s overall performance. You may have one or two heavily recruited D1 ESPN 300 game changing guys come in, yeah, they still may or may not push a team to a state championship. You can have 4 or 5 kids come in who are basically role players, bench guys, second or third stringers, may only see action on kickoffs or when a game is at running clock stage, i.e. not game changers, how are they being conceived as some sort of advantage?? How about kids who transfer out?? Do you get “credit” for these kids leaving?? How about if your transfers all have season ending ACL or other injuries and aren’t even involved in that seasons competition. Why 3 is the magic number, and not 2 or 4?? I can go on and on with this. Too many moving parts with this transfer issue. Success is success, leave the transfer clause, and any other ancillary issue out of this impending mess.

  972. Kevin X says:

    I’m going to try this one more time. Third time hopefully the charm. I keep forgetting Sun Valley is a member of the Chesmont. So assuming Great Valley is indeed officially moving to the PAC, that will give the PAC 13 members (at least I’ve been consistent on that front), but leave the Chesmont with 12 teams. Unless Octorara jumped back in the Chesmont when I wasn’t looking, my final answer, 12 schools in the Chesmont, if Great Valley joins the Pioneer (I’m done correcting myself, feel free to correct me if need be).

    OK, with all of that babble done, hopefully, maybe it’s just time for the PAC and Chesmont to join forces, at least for football. You’d have a nice top level 8 team 6A league with AG, DTE, DTW, CV, S-F, PV, OJR, and let’s go with Boyertown based on enrollment. Another 5A/6A division and a 4A/5A division. I’ll name it in honor of the Suburban One, and call it the Western One.

  973. FrankG says:

    Correcting my mistake: I meant to say the PCL could survive and maybe thrive outside the PIAA>

  974. Brian says:

    I’m not going to make a prediction on whether or not Southern will in fact win a state title next year. I do know for a fact they won’t be scoring 40-55 points in the first half of games and their defense won’t shut out 75% of its schedule. They’re replacing all skill positions on offense except one RB. They’re replacing all linebackers and 2 of their corners/safety. They also lose about half their offensivle/defensive lines. They graduate about 16. As for Aliquippa giving them a game in 2018 I will have to disagree. The 2015 team that mercy ruled Aliquippa is not anywhere as good as the 2018 team. The 2018 Aliquippa team would need to be lightyears better than their 2015 team. The past 2 years Southern could’ve played up to 4A. I would be bold enough to say that Southern would be competitive with and possibly beat Thomas Jefferson, Erie Cathedral Prep, Archbishop Wood, Pittsburgh Central Catholic, and St Joesph’s Prep.

  975. FrankG says:

    @ David Cochran If the PIAA requires PA residence, then they lose SJP which has had Jersey kids for over a century. Some other PCL schools (e.g. Roman and Egan) have also had kids from Jersey. There may be others. In any case, the PCL as a whole would withdraw from the PIAA if the state residency requirement were to be imposed. I’m not sure what people and which schools that would hurt the most. The PCL could thrive and maybe thrive outside the PIAA.

  976. Jeff H says:

    @ Dave – completely agree SC is a top notch program with top notch coaching, and as such they should play in a higher class to challenge themselves a little bit, how many mercy rule games in a row do you need to realize they are a great white shark swimming in the small pond of 2A football. You can keep winning all the titles you want at 2A, but the rest of the state would be far more impressed if you played up a class or 2 and continued to win, which I personally think they would, they just wouldn’t crush every team. I think every neutral observer in the state would have loved to have seen SC against Thomas Jefferson this year in the 4A final, or against Erie Prep last year, that’s how good the SC program is.

  977. mark d says:

    a friend of mine who is a ad from D11 put it this way if the state of Pa football was the Big Ten you have Penn State (public schools ) could only recruit in Pa. Michigan. (charter schools) could recruit in the whole Big Ten Ohio State (privet schools) could recruit in the whole country now which schools would have a great advantage ?

  978. D3 Mike says:

    I’d buy the argument to stay at 2A if PA still had 4 classes but to not move up to 3A when we now have 6 classes is a mistake. 3A has the SAME TEAMS in it that the old 2A had so it isn’t really “playing up” compared to where Southern Columbia was playing before. The last time we had 4 classes was 2015. SCA was in 2A and its playoff run was as follows:

    Troy 42-22
    Hughsville 49-20
    Montoursville 56-50
    Berks Catholic 34-21
    West Catholic 34-19
    Aliquippa 49-14

    How do those scores look to you? Do you think that title run was more satisfying for the kids than this one? If you don’t, I’m really not sure what to tell you.

    Now I get that this senior class was exponentially better than the 2015 class but all the program has done is mercy rule every team but 1 in 2A since we’ve moved to 6 classes. I’m sure they would have won 3A every year, too, but I honestly think Aliquippa would have given them a game in 2018 and teams like Middletown who run the same offense would have kept the games competitive, longer, than the overmatched 2A programs in the east. And this has nothing to do with “participation trophies”. It’s high school football, not the NFL, people. Stop living vicariously through your local school district. The blowouts aren’t good for the kids on the teams they are playing, it’s not good for fans who want to attend games, it’s not good for the sport, and it certainly isn’t good for all of the D1 SCA players who will now go to Big 10 camps in January a step behind all of the kids who played more time, in more competitive games, against more D1 players than SCA is ever going to come across in 2A. They did a good job scheduling better competition non-league this year but I’d be curious to hear if Roth still would have played 2018-2019 at 2A if he had to do it over again.

  979. Kevin X says:

    My bad. Leave PAC with 13 teams, Chesmont 11. Both odd awkward numbers to work with.

  980. NW PA says:

    I know a bunch of people feel very strongly about SC moving up. I live nowhere near the eastern part of the state so I don’t have a horse in this race. I do agree with Jut that it probably wasn’t fun watching them do that all year, especially the finals. That being said I still don’t agree. The first issue with voluntarily moving up is that a coach can only choose to do that every 2 years, you can’t move up mid cycle. Even if you have a special group of kids you never know what the season will bring with injuries. When this years senior class were sophomores I think we all knew they would be good and their coach did too. I’m
    not sure why their coach didn’t move up after this class’s sophomore year. Most coaches generally do the safe thing. I’d also like to bring up that SC runs the Wing-T which can very difficult to stop especially when you have all that talent. I remember when Erie Cathedral ran into Berks in the semi finals in 2016/2017. Those Berks teams ran that offense perfectly and an incredibly talented Erie Cathedral struggled to stop it for 3 quarters of both games. That Hammond team that SC played had some great football players and was a good team but had clearly never scene anything like the Wing T. Could anyone tell me how SC is supposed to be next season?

  981. Kevin X says:

    It appears that Great Valley is jumping ship and leaving the Chesmont for the Pioneer Athletic Conference (PAC). Will leave both conferences with 13 schools. Don’t know if that is a lucky or unlucky number.

  982. Jeff H says:

    @ Brian – most of the D1 talent on the Steel Valley team in 2016 were transfers from other schools, so they are not a good comparison to SC, Paris Ford who now plays for Pitt played for 3 different schools in 3 years. Yes, it is possible for small schools to have several D1 players, just last year Aliquippa, a 1A school by enrollment, had several D1 players, as did the great Clairton teams from 2009-2012. I agree with you some of the comments on here about SC are ludicrous, I have nothing but respect for Jim Roth and the program, but to continue to slaughter and mercy rule every team you play is not a good situation for anyone, including the kids on SC’s team. In my opinion SC has outgrown 2A and should play in a higher classification, and it’s far from ridiculous to feel that way as a neutral, objective fan of HS football. We’ll see how many “close” games SC has next year, I personally think they will be preseason #1 in 2A and don’t see anyone beating them, even with all the talent they graduate. I’ll make a fun little wager with you, I’ll take SC to win the state title again next year and give you every other 2A school in the state, and we’ll see who’s right, anyone else want to take me up on that.

  983. Dave says:

    I agree with several posters here that teams should not be forced to play up based on success alone. If they receive an advantage of some kind, such as players regularly transferring in, then yes, move them up. On a separate subject, I do not expect Southern to drop off much next year. Recent history has shown that their upcoming talent compares well with their graduating talent. Top-notch program with top-notch coaching will do that.

  984. Foleman says:

    Kutztown is considering eliminating it’s football program, The AD had to give a presentation in front of the school board-(which wants football gone) concerning the viability of the program. Several reasons were given: Low numbers-only 17 kids on the team at the end of last year and that included players from Brandywine HS who have a co-op agreement with Kutztown. Safety-Kutztown had to forfeit a game a few years ago due to not having enough healthy players, freshman who are not physically ready were being inserted into the starting lineup, plus Kutztown called a game at halftime this year where they were losing 76-0! Shrinking enrollment at the School was also cited-159 boys in grade’s 9-11. Kutztown has not won a game in 3 seasons and hasn’t had a winning season since 2004, the program has had only 3 winning seasons in 44 years. The sad part about this is that it doesn’t look like any of the nearby schools will enter into a co-op agreement with them so any kids from Kutztown who want to play football wont be able to play somewhere else.

  985. Kevin X says:

    @ David Cochran

    Short answer……..

    Long answer, I’ll have to charge you $250 an hour 🙂

    Your SC example/comparison isn’t the best. The SCISA (and SCACS) is more akin to the PAISAA. Better comparison (or goal of what you are seeking) you should look across the Delaware to NJ.

  986. David Cochran says:

    Wish somebody could explain to me in the boundary versus non boundary School situation, why we could not solve the problem the way South Carolina did by simply going to public and non-public playoffs. South Carolina has an independent Association and separates the public schools and the private and parochial schools. Hammond which Southern Columbia played in a game earlier this year is in a private school conference which is throughout the state of South Carolina. Why can’t the state of Pennsylvania simply dissolved the PIAA and go back to a public school non-public school situation in which if you take State money you’re in with the public schools all the rest that do not take State money or in a separate class and therefore you have two state champions in each class. Also as a second thought why not simply in Pennsylvania to get past the boundary non-binary school or public versus private and parochial why not make a requirement that the students parents must live in the state of Pennsylvania and therefore you would not have the kids coming across the bridges from Delaware and New Jersey to participate in our state.

  987. Kevin X says:

    @ d2baller

    On the PIAA website, they have what I would call limited box scores for each of the 6 football championship games and the attendance for each game. You’ll have to some digging I guessing for past attendance figures, unless someone else has that info on hand. The link for the 2019 games:

  988. Tornado Fan says:

    The formula might not be perfect, but it looks like the PIAA is at least doing something. I think the rule is more about fairness than success and both factors should be taken into account. Maybe a team should need to have 3x transfers in class 4A-5A and 2 transfers in class 1A-3A, combined with 2x state championships or something along those lines. In my opinion, it is unfair to force a team to move up based on success alone. If there are no transfers or unfair advantages, let them play where they are at unless they voluntarily choose to play up. Also, what is the point of making a team with a bunch of transfers but not really successful move up? Would anyone even care if they are not dominating? The biggest flaw I see in this plan is that apparently the PIAA’s method of investigation consists of sending a form to the successful school district to verify the number of transfers. Seems like something a school could get around pretty easily if they wanted to. The other flaw is that there is nowhere to go for dominant 6A schools with transfers since they are already at the top.

  989. mark d says:

    @Kevin x Lackawanna Trail moving up becuse that where they fell with the new number and Midvaley and i believe Carbondale are moving to AAA .Abington is going to 5A but Wallenpaupack is droping to 4 A here it has nothing to do with success and transfers are far and few between in D2

  990. Mike A says:

    My Final East top 10…
    1) St. Joseph’s Prep (12) 12-2
    2) Central Dauphin (3) 12-3
    3) Manheim Township (3) 11-1
    4) Harrisburg (3) 9-4
    5) Downingtown West (1) 13-2 (3)
    6) Wilson (3) 10-2
    7) Nazareth Area (11) 12-2 (4)
    8) Coatesville (1) 10-3 (5)
    9) Northeast (12) 11-2
    10) La Salle College HS (12) 8-3

  991. Brian says:

    I love the comments to continue to demean the southern football team. Now we’re not just hearing the idiotic statements about recruiting and redshirting but now it’s if you don’t play football you get bullied. The whole thing about them playing up is just ridiculous. Could’ve senior group played up to 3 or 4A this past 2 years yes. However from 2007 to 2014 they made the state title game 1 time so obviously they obviously didn’t need to play up. This group just happens to be loaded with division one talent this year. Those that want to complain saying how can a AA school have 4 division 1 recruits in the same class. Go back to steel valley beating southern in mercy rule fashion in 2016. They had a load of D1 talent. Also go back to 96 when southern lost to Farrell, they had several D1 recruits. Southern won’t be super human next year and will have close games. I won’t say they can’t get back to the state title game because I’ve said that before and was wrong. It won’t be easy for them to return.

  992. SCA Alum says:

    All of the coaches from SCA have been there for years. All of them are dear close friends. Many of them volunteer and give so much time, it’s unreal. As for mentoring, Coach Roth has openly given the “Program Guidelines” to many other coaches, but it’s hard to replicate. The coaches at SCA are just plain old good men.
    I’m all for SCA playing up, but some bigger school are reluctant to play them. That fact is rarely spoken. Montoursville and Wyoming Area were the only team with any gusto.

  993. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – sorry, can’t help you with logic or common sense when it comes to the PIAA, I’m guessing they didn’t have the votes to impose a “success rule” on its own merit and had to couple it with the 3 transfer rule, which makes no sense to those of us that think logically. If the goal is to level the playing field seems to me one should use both rules independent of each other, after all success is success regardless of whether you have transfers or not, and the total dominance of 1 particular school at a certain class year after year is not good for the sport in general.

  994. Jeff H says:

    @NW PA – completely agree with everything you stated in your wrap up. I underestimated how good PCC was, because in my opinion and many others their 2019 team was not as good as their 2015/16 teams, and they did not look that good in their 10-7 win over PR in the WPIAL final. But you’re right about match-ups, they are the only 6A team, at least in the playoffs, that was able to match SJP on the lines, and thus were able to stay in the game against them and actually outplay them in the 2nd half and come one play from upsetting them. That catch by Harrison Jr. on 4th and 10 from the 12 yard line with 15 seconds to go in the game will go down as one of the all time clutch plays in PIAA playoff history, too bad there were only about 1,500 total fans in the stands to witness a fantastic playoff game.

    Regarding CV, they completely shut down Wyoming’s offense for the first 3 quarters like I thought they would, allowing only 79 yards of total offense, then the dam burst with that 80 yard TD pass and the momentum totally shifted, the way it played out was one of the more stunning turnarounds in a game in the finals that I can remember. I actually think the change in momentum happened on the CV drive that preceded the 80 yard TD pass, they had 2nd and 6 on Wyoming’s 26 yard line, receiver was wide open in the flat and dropped an easy catch when he would have gotten well inside the 20 and picked up a first down, then they took a penalty and ended up punting to pin them deep. Had CV gotten a first down and went on to score and go up 21-0 that might have deflated Wyoming, but I give Wyoming all the credit in the world for not quitting and mounting an amazing comeback.

    For those of you that get PCN, or have subscribed for this month, check out the PR vs. Manheim Central epic 2 OT snow game from 2003 this Saturday at 7pm, one of the all time great games in finals history. And if you recall the PIAA moved the Saturday games to Sunday because of all the snow from Friday night.

  995. d2baller says:

    Is there a way to find the attendance at each piaa championship game from this year and years prior? Would be interesting to see attendance charts throughout the years.

  996. Jut says:

    Okay with this whole SCA moving up a class, why not. That wasn’t fun for anyone. Wasn’t fun for the players, coaches, fans or anyone watching that AA championship game. 74-7 like really it’s a state championship. This is why I say Southern loves mercy ruling everyone and won’t play up to 3a or where they should play 4a. Considering they shut out the AAA state champ Wyoming at Wyoming. No one wants to see another state championship like this. This happen in Single A state basketball championship 2 years when Lourdes got destroyed by Kennedy Catholic 78-35. That school jumped up to 6a the following year and won the state championship. They jumped up 6 classes and won. Why can’t southern do it?

    With the whole thing about transfers going to SCA, this maybe true, I’ve had a player talk to me about that program. He went to southern, played there. He said different players were alway coming in. Every wonder why they have so many players too… he said if you didn’t play football or wrestle you were bullied. I mean this could all be heresay but why would he lie to me about that?

  997. Foleman says:

    SCA Alum, would you know of any of Roth’s assistants that have coached at other high schools? If so, I’m sure they would bring their Wing T and weightlifting program along with them. SCA definitely has one of the top coaching staffs in Pa history. I was at Knoebels several years ago and several SCA kids were there, they physically looked like college players. Pettine had Carey, Pettine Jr and a few others go on to coaching success….Pettine Jr in the NFL. Jim Mich-Pius X Pottstown legendary coach mentored Pettine Sr, Rick Keeley-(Berks Catholic), Dave Bodolus-(Daniel Boone), Jeff Chillott-(Schuykill Valley) and Jim Mich Jr-(Spring Ford) in his coaching tree, not bad! If I am an area Athletic Director in that area, I’m interviewing Roth’s assistant coaches today.

  998. Kevin X says:

    Can someone, anyone, please help me in understanding the logic, common sense, rational or simply where I am wrong for the following two possible “success” factor scenarios??


    Farrell wins back to back “A” state championships. 8 “success” factor points, 2 more than the 6 needed to move up.
    Lackawanna Trail, 2018 “A” championship game appearance, gets their doors blown out by the aforementioned Farrell, then in 2019 they were defeated in semi finals. 7 “success” factor points, 1 more than the 6 needed to move up.

    Here is the unsettling rub based on a hypothetically that could become a reality. Suppose Farrell is deemed to have only two transfers (am I not sure what even qualifies as an official transfer for this purpose based on all the exceptions, scenarios, rulings, etc., but for arguments sake, we’ll say two legit transfers for Farrell), and let’s say Lackawanna Trail is deemed to have 3. So am I of the understanding, that in this potential scenario, that the team that won back to back state championships does not have to “play-up,” yet the team with all of one more transfer over the course of a two year cycle, and did not win any state championships, is then mandated for the next two years, to “play-up?”


    Same similar scenario can take place in “AA” with Southern Columbia and Wilmington.

    Why is this very disturbing to me?? Is this actually a “Success” factor formula/rule to help level the playing field and increase competition, or a thinly disguised, end round, back door new transfer rule??

  999. NW PA says:

    A few thoughts after Hershey. Much respect to Farrell, such a small public school yet consistently good. The more I watch SC, the better they look. No 3A school could touch them and only TJ or Cathedral would have a chance in 4A and who knows what would happen. Surprised about the CV game, they just collapsed, but kudos to Wyoming for never quitting. After watching the Wood game I’m pretty sure TJ or Cathedral could have beat them but they did get their 6th title in the last like ten years which is incredible. SJP had the perfect strategy but I thought it would be closer without Mcord. I feel like PCC must have been pretty good to almost win that game but that’s also part of the matchup aspect of the game. PCC has such a great line on both sides of the ball, one of the few teams who could matchup with SJP on the line.

  1000. Tornado Fan says:

    @SCA Alum Nobody doubts that SCA works hard, but you can’t assume that other schools don’t work hard as well. Since Darrah has taken over as MCA’s coach, I see pics online of the team in the weight room every week in the offseason and I can tell you they were also there the week after their season ended. Right now, SCA has a perfect storm of years of coaching experience, tradition, hard work and also getting many of the best athletic families in the area. I have heard of transfers to SCA over the years but would never post anything on hearsay. However, this is coming from the PIAA, so I think its a little more legitimate. I’m sure St. Joe’s Prep can also say that they win every year because their kids work harder, but we all know its not the whole story. If it turns out SCA doesn’t have enough transfers to move up under the new rule, I have absolutely no problem with them staying in 2A.

  1001. FrankG says:

    @phillyboy How do you know that the Prep football players get free tuition?

  1002. phillyboy says:

    Was supposed to go out to Hershey with an old acquaintance for the 6A final; thank goodness he flaked on me. From the get-go you could tell it was a joke. Central Dauphin literally couldn’t do anything. Even when they had that nice kick off return to Prep’s 20 yard line you just knew it was going to fizzle. Goodness gracious, it was as if CD was playing in 3 feet of invisible water. Was it Foleman that bluntly said that ‘public 6A stinks’? Admittedly, that’s part of it. But the bigger reason has to do with a private school not being hampered by bureaucratic ‘feces from the virile gender of the bovine species’ — they have singleness of purpose and can call their own shots. So they’re businessmen — Prep to top end talent with limited means: Make you a deal, you play for us, we’ll give you free tuition. You combine that with all the coached up, fresh out of camp Johnny hustles and voila, the annual party at Hershey Park stadium.

  1003. SCA Alum says:

    How about all the people stop saying that certain schools need to move up because of success! How about having the unsuccessful programs have their kids get in the weight rooms and do speed drills all summer and support multi-sport athletes. That is what SCA does. All the boys playing this year have been at the school since grade school (so shut the transfer talk). Did you hear what Fleming said after the game to the team? “If you’re not playing another sport, Monday get in the weight room!” I would guess that there were kids pumping iron on Saturday morning. Commitment + Hard Work + Dedication = Success! Other schools and programs just don’t get it. Once you start winning you have that drive, and SCA has been winning for a long time. So, if you want to make the PIAA Championship trophy into a participation trophy (Everyone Wins), then support the nonsense of making teams play up. How about other teams step up to the challenge?

  1004. New2Pa says:

    Pine-Richland beat SJP in 2017
    Penn Hills beat Wood in 2018
    TJ beat ECP in 2019 – who else beat them. Maybe before I was around?

  1005. Foleman says:

    Was very disappointed in CD’S showing, saw them twice this year and they were better than what showed up tonight. I think starting out they were intimidated by the Prep, they surprisingly got whipped up front and were out coached. Prep ran a 6-2 defense and sometimes an 8 man front to stop the run and blitzed CD’S Soph QB to death when CD had to pass, which they could not. CD’S special teams play was awful against Downingtown West and helped Prep to a 14-0 lead, game over. S. Columbia and Prep juggernauts are also the 2 best coached teams I have seen in the playoffs. Hey, Pitt CC must be pretty darn good to go toe to toe with the Prep.

  1006. Brian says:

    I picked Wyoming area to get there once the injury to the north Schuylkill QB. I felt they had a good chance to get there before the injury.

  1007. Eric W/D3 says:

    Nice run by CD in the post season, but kinda figured Prep would shut down their O. CD passing game is basically one WR so I’m sure Prep went to work with film on CD’s two losses in the reg.season. In those games they couldn’t run and could not score.

    WWL, 21-13 loss, 23-48 rushing, no rushing TD’s
    MT, 10-7 loss, 32-71 rushing. no rushing TD’s

    Plus the WWL OL was too physical for CD D line(almost 200 yrs rushing by WWL). Prep OL controlled them as well. At this point of the post season, top notch teams will expose teams that are one dimensional. Congrats to Prep and the rest of the title winners

  1008. Brian says:

    Yes Dave you’re correct. I was thinking the 35-0 Montoursville game. I got the scores backwards.

  1009. D3 Mike says:

    Since this game was mostly a snooze-fest, IMO… here are the post-season records versus boundary programs this decade for the 2019 state title winners:

    20-1 St. Joe’s Prep
    27-1 Archbishop Wood
    20-6 Thomas Jefferson
    10-5 Wyoming Area
    36-6 Southern Columbia
    23-7 Farrell

    Yes, there are public dynasties and they win plenty of title games in blowouts but just looking at these numbers it’s clear that none of the public programs are anywhere near the equivalent in dominance of Prep and Wood – not even Southern Columbia. (P.S. ECP didn’t win this year but they went 29-3).

    I’m a Catholic football fan but, realistically, the best of 500 boundary schools in PA will beat the PCL’s best once or twice a decade.

  1010. Dave says:

    @Brian, Actually the So. Co. / Wyoming score was 42 – 0. Glad that Wyoming Area proved themselves to all those who said they had no chance.

  1011. P-R Fan says:

    Tornado Fan:That article allso means Wood is either going to be 4A where the are classed or 6A if they have 3 or more transfer.

  1012. Jeff H says:

    Wow, what an incredible 4th quarter comeback by Wyoming when it looked like they were on the ropes at the end of the third. Dom DeLuca is a tremendous high school football player, what a memorable and gutty performance, I was very surprised Wyoming’s defense contained CV’s offense as well as they did. Hopefully tonight’s game is as good as the last 2, definitely some of the best championship games so far in a long time.

  1013. Tornado Fan says:

    Article on SCA and others moving up-

    I was never a fan of the idea of forcing a team to play up due to success alone. However, if they keep getting transfers for football and winning championships, I’m all for it.
    SCA is always good, but they have been a juggernaut the past 3 seasons with this class (I think they would have beaten anybody I’ve watched so far this weekend except ‘maybe’ TJ). I’m sure they will be good next year and beyond, but they will not be as dominant as they have been recently. If they somehow continue to be this dominant in AA assuming they didn’t have many transfers, I think they should want to move up voluntarily based on the fact that most of their starters this year only played the 1st half, but I don’t think that is going to be the case. If they do have the transfers, I think it is a fair rule.

    Agree with everyone about the trophy. The golden football was like the Lombardi trophy of PA HS football, not sure why they would get rid of it.

  1014. D3 Mike says:

    Another great game. Congrats to Wyoming Area for getting their school’s first title and the first for D2 in awhile. And props to the Wyoming Area AD and staff for making that Southern Columbia game happen. If they don’t get kicked in the teeth earlier this year I don’t know if they come back in the 4th quarter like they did today. That was a wealth of experience and game film to draw on to prepare the team for their playoff run.

  1015. Mike A says:

    Leaving for Hershey shortly for the SJP/CD game. Hoping it’s a good one.

    3A FINAL
    Wyoming Area 21
    Central Valley 14

    So much for all the pundits here! LOL

  1016. Brian says:

    I must say I’m not impressed with the new PIAA trophy look either. Congrats to Wyoming Area on winning their first state title. To think Southern shut them out 35-0 on their own field in week 8.

  1017. Matt says:

    So far we have had three good one score games in Hershey. This last one was incredible to watch. CV had a 14-0 lead and Wyoming backed up and then boom an 80 yard TD and that changed the game on a dime. What a great game who didn’t really care who won. Hopefully tonight’s game is as good. These games have been some of the best games I have seen in a while in Hershey.

  1018. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Has anybody taken notice to the “NEW” style trophies handed out at Hershey this year. To me it looks like PIAA forgot to order trophies went into a trophy shop and pulled 12 off the shelves. To me they are on the cheap looking side. I know a trophy is not really important but come on. Maybe it is just me and not important to this forum and I apologize to the PIAA about this post but I think they could have done better.

  1019. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, et al

    …..and just to follow-on to your game results……the two blowouts were those sinister private/catholic schools beating up on hapless public schools. Oh wait, my bad, the two blow outs involved 4 traditional public boundary schools. Huh. Ok then, I guess then the two nail bitters involved more competitive public boundary schools. Dang!! What is going on with me this morning, that’s not right either!!! A public boundary school actually beat one of those “they don’t play by the same rules” recruiting catholic schools in OT, and the another public school, the majority of you couldn’t locate on a PA map, took a traditional catholic juggernaut down to the final seconds in their game. I have a hunch it will be two somewhat similar outcomes later today…….

  1020. Jeff H says:

    Well so far 2 blowouts and 2 nail biters, we’ll see what today has in store. I hope 3A will be a good game, but I think CV has too much speed and talent for Wyoming, and I have a hunch they win by 3-4 scores, I doubt Wyoming is going to score many points on CV’s defense, just like Dallas had trouble moving the ball consistently against TJ, I see the final something like 34-7.

    I think 6A may come down to who’s able to play for SJP, if Leneghan and Rightley can’t play on defense I think CD will be able to run the ball effectively and perhaps control the clock some, it was obvious they were missed on defense last week against PCC. I think this game will be very competitive and perhaps as good as the game last night, would love to CD win, but I have a hunch SJP finds a way to pull out a close one 28-24.

  1021. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you about it being a classy move by schools like Aliquippa, BC, Beca, McDevitt, Wood, etc. playing up, I wish Southern Columbia would do the same thing, what else do they have to prove in 2A. They have one of the top programs in the state regardless of classification and in my opinion they should challenge their kids a little and play up, everyone on this board would love to see them play TJ, I think it’s pretty obvious this year that SC and TJ are the 2 best non 6A schools in the state and either one of them would have won 5A. Other states like Indiana have a success factor rule that is not tied to transfers, win 2 state titles in a row and you are forced to move up a class, keep winning in the new class and move up again, this would help level the playing field and maybe help reduce the number of mismatches and blowouts.

    @ Kevin X – I agree with you about Wood and Imhotep playing different classes to avoid playing each other in the D12 final, in the last year of 4 classes in 2015 Imhotep of course beat them in the D12 final and cruised to the state title, then when we went to 6 classes they were able to avoid each other by playing up 1 class. I don’t have any problem with Wood playing 5A, that’s where they should be playing, if other schools like SC and Erie Prep would voluntarily play up it would be better for everyone, including those schools.

  1022. Foleman says:

    Archbishop Wood has only 41 players on the team and 3 of them are Kickers? You have to be kidding me! Great game but I can’t remember 2 teams that were this weak in a championship game in 5A. Wood has their top player-Santiago transfer to William Tennant before the start of the season, no mention on PCN that Cheltenham’s Barnes and TJ Harris transferred out of Wood to Cheltenham either yet the announcers last year constantly mentioned Erie Cathedral Prep’s transfers. Southern Columbia, Thomas Jefferson, ECP would have beat either of those teams by 3-4 touchdowns. Time to go to 5 Divisions for the playoffs.

  1023. GaryZ says:

    @Kevin X
    Well they have done it the right way, built from the lower grades up. Same system, from what I have heard. I am not in the know out their, I am D7. But I have never heard of them recruiting. They are a PUBLIC, not a team that blatantly recruits or has convenient transfers year in, year out. As far as I know, and I have not heard otherwise. I am not a fan of forcing a public, w as far as I know, plays by the rules to move up. However, I think they should do it like Alliquippa, move up one class, or 2 classes like the ‘Quips. But what I mentioned before, if they like just dominating competition year in year out. That’s their right. Sure they will have a year here and there where they run into a Steel Valley, however it will not be often. But the fans who think they can dominate up through 5A, let’s see em try. ‘Quips could do the same exact thing, but have always played up. A small Class A, playing in 3 A, in one of the most brutal conferences in the State. The ‘Quips would literally just absolutely blow class A schools out, to the point some schools would forfeit. They don’t see a point in it, and what would it prove. A storied program w loads of D1 talent, multiple players in NFL most years, every year just absolutely blowing teams away by 70-80 points. I know some involved in the ‘Quips program and they are not at all interested in that. I REALLY RESPECT IT, and agree with them.

  1024. Kevin X says:

    @ GaryZ

    Why should they not be forced to move up??

  1025. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    I hear you, but I still wouldn’t call it playing the system. Heck, the system we don’t even know how it’s working. I’d say more of a mundane, “it is what it is” for right now.

    To answer your question about not taking a shot at 6A??, well simple, two words……The Prep. You are already getting handily beat by them in the regular season, why would you subject yourself to getting bounced handily again by them in the first or second weeks of the playoffs?? Kind of believe that is why Imhotep and Wood make sure, if able, that they are in different classifications.

  1026. GaryZ says:

    Hopefully we get two good ones tomorrow. Let’s see if 3A and 6A can be at least half as good as tonight’s game. No dog in fight in 6A, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t mind seeing SJP All-Stars upset. Don’t think it happens, but we shall see. Definitely wanna see D7 C. Valley beat Wyo. I am not sure what we see in 3A, I expect that C.V. wins big. They played T.J. really tough, was at the game. Was closer than score reflected, C.V. made some mistakes, but TJ was not in danger. Still, TJ 28-3 over C.V. But good teams make other teams, shoot themselves in the foot, regardless of some people’s thoughts on that.

  1027. GaryZ says:

    What a game. Congratulations to A.W. and Chelt. Awesome game, gotta give respect to both teams. AW pulled two close ones out, today and Gateway. Regardless of key players missing in the AW vs G-Way game, Derek Davis and a few from AW. Next man up, good teams find a way to win in adversity. This was a great game, excellent Athletes on both sides. Shame there had to be a loser. Tip of the cap too both programs, ultimately the fans were the winners here. Especially ones like me, no dog in the fight. Just wanted to see a good game, instead we got to see an AWESOME GAME.

  1028. GaryZ says:

    @mark d
    Just wanted to make sure ya didn’t get that impression. You always gave me good info on teams from the East, like Dunmore and some others. Happy Holidays.

  1029. GaryZ says:

    SCA is a great team, deserve all the credit they get. They should not be forced to move up. However, I would like to see them do it like Alliquippa. The ‘Quips are a Class A school, however it would be absurd for them to play Class A football and basketball. So they play up 2 classes to 3A. Maybe SCA should try one or two classes up. Still be a power, but wouldn’t be the absolute blow outs week in week out. I know they played an Independent from S. Carolina and Wyo. Just think it be awesome to see SCA vs Thomas Jeff. or traditional 3A n 4A powers from East n West. They again should not be forced, it’s a choice. Like the ‘Quips have always done, there would literally be Zero competition for the Quips in Class A. But that’s there choice. I don’t really think they ran it up, but coulda put your younger guys in a little earlier. But hey, keep turning it over n throwing picks… that’s gonna happen. There is a way to help yourself not get blown out so badly. Milk the clock, quit throwing pick 6’s. But hey, hats off to Avonworth, first time to win a WPIAL, and go to States.

  1030. NW PA says:

    I can’t believe anyone is surprised how the SC game went today. I have no doubt that SC would have easily won no matter what, but Avonworth didn’t help themselves with the turnovers for touchdowns. How is any 2A team supposed to compete against a team with 5 D1 starters on both sides of the ball. The senior class for SC was a special group of kids. I have no doubt that this years SC team could hold their own against the top 4A-6A teams in the state—not saying they would win but they would hold their on. Looking forward to the remaining games.

  1031. Brian says:

    Foleman did you even watch the game? The starting offense barely was on the field in the first half. Avonworth threw 3 consecutive pick 6s. Plus a fumble that set up southern on the 8. You can’t turn the ball over six times in a half and expect to have a close game against Southern.Then after the starters came out they turned it over a couple more times including a fumbled punt that was returned for a touchdown Definitely was not running up the score.

  1032. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin and Foleman, Thanks for the D1/D12 scouting. Foleman, I have a lot of connections to the BC program and they are not going to be nearly as strong as 2015-2018 for many years. You are correct about transfers helping them but that was really the icing on the cake during their run. All of the D1 guys they’ve had (other than McFoy, who I’m assuming got D1 offers) and skill position players played all 4 years (if not more) in the system and now they are running out of Lutz brothers to plug in. Their junior high teams have been meh for the past 2-3 years now so I really think they will struggle in Berks 1 with GM and even Exeter on top of that non-league slate. They are scheduling Roman and PJPII not for competition as much as because they can’t find anyone to play them.

    On 2A, I honestly don’t know whether to criticize Avonworth for throwing so much or laud them for sticking with their game plan lol. I thought SCA had their starters in maybe 1 series too long but not a big deal, really. Like I noticed it when it was 55-7 but it was only mid way thru the third so again, not a big deal.

    D4 people: The Erie broadcaster I follow on Twitter said Southern Columbia will not be forced up to 3A next year as they did not have 3 transfers. Can you confirm? Also, I see Shamokin and someone else volunteered to play 4A. Was that because they expected SCA to be in 3A or is there another reason? Because that’s a major whoops if SCA is down at 2A.

    Without arguing about publics and privates, I think it’s a smart and classy move by Allentown, Bethlehem, Bishop McDevitt & Berks Catholic to volunteer up to 4A. I’m sure the 4A publics want them classed higher but they could have stuck in lower classifications as some other successful Catholic programs did.

  1033. Yoyo672 says:

    @Foleman, do you want southern to pull their first team after 1 quarter? A once in a lifetime senior class that could arguably win 2a-5a and compete with SJP in 6a, I’m Letting them play 3 quarters of there final game of their career.

  1034. ColonialFan says:

    @Kevin X

    Certainly credit due for them playing up to 5A. However when they have more or less run the table, in 5A for the last 5 years (with the exception of last year) then why not take your shot at 6A. Sure they may be “down” this year, but still plenty good, they had plenty of D1 talent in the past that most schools don’t have the opportunity to have. I won’t mention the word, but we all know it. Coming from the Lehigh Valley, Beca and Central should probably be playing up to 5A. Every school they play is 6A or 5A. From my perspective, Wood staying at 4A is playing the system, in my opinion. Yes, my team lost to them, but this isn’t sour grapes. They were clearly the better team.

  1035. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I am familiar with PJP as my nephew plays for them. They lose approx. 3/4 of their starting lineup on offense and defense but they have several quality backups so the cupboard is not empty, based on what BC and PJP have coming back I would put BC as a 1 TD favorite. Roman has an excellent QB, their best player graduated, they have a few lineman back and some athletes returning, but based on what I saw when they played PJP in the 1st game of the year I would think BC would be slightly favored in that game too. It will be interesting to see who transfers into BC for next year as they move up to Div 1 in Berks, they always get a few transfers but with the new rules they wont be getting any Senior or possibly Junior players transferring in anymore.

  1036. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    Oops, looks like I just tossed up the same voluntary playing up link that you already did.

    Flawed yes, but not exactly in the way you layed it out or presented. No one seems to give any credit to those schools who have been previously voluntarily playing up. I don’t think they should be punished for going above and beyond all along, when others who should or could have, didn’t. I also think if you had two schools (ECP and SCA) play up the past cycle or two, you would not have had the need for this whole thing. As far as flawed, I think transfers should have nothing to do with this. Leave them out, too complicated and divisive, and have little to do with “success.” And if you have kids transfer out, do they get to offset the number of transfers coming in?? Also, it should be more then a two year representation (of points), should have been a 4 year control sample, especially since its been 4 years since expanding to 6 classifications.

  1037. Foleman says:

    My God! The refs should call the Southern Columbia/Avonworth game. 55-7 at the half Score is now 68-7 with 4 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. No class Roth still has his 1st teamers in there on offense and defense. SC definitely is the best small school team I have ever seen but it’s clear their coach is running up the score on a team that is outclassed and undermanned.

  1038. mark d says:

    @Gary i didn’t think you were being disrespectful at all if cit went the other way i would have been busting on you < yu called it i was wrong not the first time be well and have a great Holiday SEASON

  1039. GaryZ says:

    Yes Mike, Beaver Falls had a down year after they beat Middletown. Middletown had a great run for those 3 years and this year. I respect them. They accomplished more than most programs. Here is a hypothetical, they would find it very hard to make the playoffs out of the Beaver Co. conference they played every year in State finals. They shot themselves in the foot as you said, and had a huge disadvantage because of the bye D7 got. Just my opinion, said it before, whatever Beaver Co. team they played could have played a Semi on Friday and beat em on Saturday. I respect what they did, my point was simply, they are not on par with the D7 teams they faced. I know they had the self inflicted wounds and the bye week, but that’s how it shook out. No bye week for D7, and M-Town not “shooting selves in the foot,” they probably beat D7 teams In finals. After all Beaver Falls or whatever team ya wanna point too are one offs. But hypothetically they would find it real hard in that Beaver Co conference, every week playing a different powerhouse. Let’s see how Wyo does vs C.V. I hope they don’t shoot themselves in the foot, if they do… C.V. did have a bye week.

  1040. Kevin X says:


    My bad, I think I might have used “Grey” for Kamal’s last name in my previous post.

  1041. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    The short of it, I believe Roman will be the same or better, PJPII will take a step back, and MP will be better. Looking briefly at whose coming back, mainly two QB’s (RC and MP) and Grey moving on from PJPII. Think Foleman might have a better view and outlook on PJPII.

    I do applaud BC for taking on some nice regular season competition. Think makes thing more interesting playing different teams and very good teams, and makes one better over the long haul.

  1042. Kevin X says:

    Quick update to those new enrollment figs/classification……I took a closer look and saw specifically a list of schools “voluntary” playing up at the bottom of that PIAA article. Guess the success factor(s) still need to be worked into this. Interesting that Wood and Imhotep didn’t voluntarily “play-up” again this cycle, maybe because they know or assume that they will be moved up anyway??

  1043. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I think you might be right about having to wait until CD-SJP tomorrow night for a really competitive game like the 1A final yesterday, hope I’m wrong, we’ll see.

  1044. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, thanks for the enrollment numbers. Do you know anything about what the Roman and PJPII teams will look like next year? Berks Catholic added both to the 2020 schedule and I’m not familiar with either program. I see that Roman beat Wood 20-6 earlier this year which is fairly terrifying, especially considering that BC is already playing Central Dauphin and Malvern Prep in September.

    Is anyone not from the two schools involved actually going to the game this afternoon? Hopefully the 5A tonight is competitive but I’m not holding my breath. From what I’ve read Cheltenham should at least put up some points. Might have to wait for tomorrow night for anything close to the 1A final, though.

  1045. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    The last time that I remember being within the Philly city limits, other than center city for work or play, was several years ago I was in the Fox Chase section(??)/Northeast HS for the North Penn/SJP playoff game. But its not just the city catholic schools, its catholic schools throughout the Delaware Valley that continue to bleed students/enrollment. Even the ones that did not drop down in classification, the suburban ones such as O’Hara, Wood, Shanahan, etc. all lost kids from the previous cycle. PJPII appears to be the only school to add a handful of kids.

  1046. ColonialFan says:

    Regarding the new classifications…the teams that voluntarily chose to move up were listed.

    When does the success formula get factored in? It seems as though there’s already a flaw in the system. Using Archbishop Wood as an example, they have voluntarily been playing up to 5A for years now even though they are 4A. However, this cycle they chose to remain at 4A. So if the success formula is being used they will only get bumped to 5A, when in reality they’ve been dominating 5A and should get bumped to 6A. So seems as those there’s a little loophole. Am I making sense?

  1047. Jeff H says:

    Some thoughts and predictions for today’s games

    Avonworth vs. SC – the real question is whether this will be a mercy rule like last nights game, I don’t think it will be at the half, I see something like 28-7 or 35-7 at halftime, may get to a mercy rule at some point, think the final will be 49-14, which is the same score SC beat Wilmington by last year. Keep an eye on #4 Jax Miller from Avonworth, he’s an excellent high school football player on both sides of the ball.

    Wood vs Cheltenham – would love to see Cheltenham win, but I don’t see it happening, if they gave up 495 rushing yards to Cocalico last week Wood is going run at will on their defense, Expect Cheltenham to put up some points, they do have a very good offense, but don’t see them slowing down Wood’s rushing attack, I think Wood wins 42-28.

  1048. Jeff H says:

    @ NW PA – you are absolutely right, we saw the best 2 teams in 4A 2 weeks ago at North Hills, no disrespect to Dallas, they had a great season, including knocking off imhotep in the playoffs, but they ran into a buzz-saw last night in TJ and were never in the game after the first quarter, once TJ got up a couple of scores it was just a matter of how big the final margin was going to be. Pretty impressive when a team averages 46 ppg on offense and only gives up 4 ppg on defense over a 16 game season, I tried to warn you eastern guys Dallas wasn’t going to put up too many points on TJ’s defense.

  1049. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, been to Philly lately? I grew up in the NE and the place is unrecognizable to me! Chicken Coops in the backyard, cars parked on row house lawns….back in the day if anyone even thought about parking a car on a lawn the neighbors would give you a blanket party! Iron bars on windows and doors. Crime at an all time high. The Philly Catholic Schools carried Philly for many years, North Catholic gone, Cardinal Dougherty gone, West Catholic barely hanging on, unless some sort of school choice is implemented, I’m sure the PCL population will continue to decline, except for SJP and laSalle. Yet the politicians in Philly tell you all is well! I imagine PJP will continue to add students due to the Philly flight..

  1050. Kevin x says:

    Only looked at the D12/PCL football figs, and boy seems like the catholic school are still bleeding students. Updated, non voluntary and success factor adjustments, I assume, classifications for the next two years:

    6A: LaSalle, SJP and Roman
    5A: Father Judge (down from 6A)
    4A: Bonner, Wood, O’Hara and Ryan (down from 5A)
    3A: Lansdale Ca., N-G and Carroll (down from 4A)
    2A: McDevitt, West Ca. and CEC (down from 3A)

    Shanahan remains at 4A, while PJPII is the only Philly area catholic school moving up (via enrollment numbers only, 3A to 4A)

    Imhotep remains, at least enrollment wise, at 3A

  1051. NW PA says:

    Kudos to TJ on a great season. They dominated every aspect of that game last night. I said it before and I’ll say it again, the top teams in 4A played 2 weeks ago and that was a one possession game until slightly under 2 minutes left.

  1052. mark d says:

    what can i say Gary hat off to TJ i did not not think that any team could crush Dallas like that. they got taken to the wood shed all you can say is congratulation TJ must be one hack of a team,.Remember Dallas got by Berwick and Valley View who were both ranked in the top 10 of AAAA so like i said one heck of a team

  1053. D3 Mike says:

    Gary, since you don’t like getting into hypotheticals we can just leave it at Beaver Valley was 1-9 and Middletown was 14-1 the year after they played in the state final. Most seasons they end up playing coaches and defensive systems at Bishop McDevitt, Wyomissing, Steel-High, and Lancaster Catholic with multiple state titles, appearances, and yes – even some wins over otherwise invincible WPIAL programs. Last year’s senior class won 6 PIAA playoff games outside of their own district which was as many as Beaver Falls, Quaker Valley, and Aliquippa – combined. From those objective, non-hypothetical facts, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want to believe about Middletown’s schedule, coaching, and offensive system. The above based on the 48 minutes you actually pay attention to their program each year, all while they play the best team in the state in 3A.

  1054. Kevin X says:

    New enrollment figs for next two year cycle…..all sports. Don’t think this takes into account voluntarily playing up and success factor formula.

  1055. GaryZ says:

    Ya well it’s convenient to point out specific times in the Middletown games. However, at any point, no reasonable person thought they would win during those 3 games. It was very clear that they were not on a level with whatever D7 team they played. As far as the remarks about a Senior class and one off’s. Well let’s just say, that the Conference all the Beaver Co. teams play in, is BRUTAL. Don’t like getting into hypotheticals, but they would have a very hard time making the playoffs in that conference. I am not trying to be insulting, but the level of play, Athletes and yes coaching would make it real tough week in week out. So I am putting M-Town to rest. Let’s see what Wyo. does vs C.V. I will take C.V. by at least 4 scores.

  1056. GaryZ says:

    @Mark D
    Yes, TJ line is that good. I don’t think I need to get into anything else, if you watched the game. Dallas has a Big n Nasty O-Line, well I guess they forgot how to be Big n Nasty vs TJ. Not sure what they do against whoever else, but they flexed on Dallas, and all the Nasty in the world was not gonna help em. I do respect your opinions and insight on Dunmore in previous years. Didn’t wanna sound disrespectful to you. I enjoy reading your posts and insight. #RESPECT

  1057. Jeff H says:

    Is it just me or does TJ remind you of the great Wood teams from a few years ago that just ran the ball down peoples throats, granted Wood had a little more high end D1 talent, but very similar style of football, and they even wear the same colors. Granted the wind is a big factor in this game but it is pretty evident TJ is way too physical for Dallas like many of us suspected, and Shane Stump is a tremendous high school quarterback. Very curious to watch the game tomorrow night and see if my feeling that TJ would win 5A is valid.

  1058. Old Time PCL says:

    Surprising seeing a few of predictions for Central dauphin over st Joe prep. Anybody see them both play…I know preps banged up and from what I’m hearing no QB mccord but the backup has been pretty impressive stepping up in his role.

    So what type of game should we really be expecting? Does dauphin have the speed to play with prep. I was surprised to see them that close with PCC. Dauphin just scored 65 so prep O may have to keep up which they usually always do.

    I’m going to stay the weekend in Hershey to root on Cheltenham (coach is a judge guy) and as always whoever is playing sjp (ha!) What other game for Friday and Saturday are we most looking forward to?


  1059. BCFOOTBALL says:


    Wood is 4A enrollment playing up to 5A in this cycle, probably 4A again by the numbers next cycle, but not sure where they will play.

    Wood 31 Cheltenham 14

  1060. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you TJ is too physical for the rest of 4A this year, including Dallas, we’ll see how it plays out. I personally think TJ would win 5A this year, that’s what Dallas is up against tonight, but TJ has a big senior class and graduate a lot, they have been building for this year for the last 3. I agree with New2PA, McKeesport will give TJ a run in 4A next year, they will be #1 & #2 in the preseason rankings in the WPIAL.

    Thanks for the info on Wood, now that you mention it I do recall them playing a few D1 schools 7-8 years ago before they started playing the NJ privates.

    Congrats to Farrell on repeating as state champs with their 10-7 OT victory over BG, I thought Farrell would score a few more TDs, but did not surprise me BG only managed 7 points.

  1061. David Mika says:

    Class 1A Final: Farrell 10, Bishop Guilfoyle 7 OT

  1062. New2PA says:

    D3 Mike: McKeesport is not playing up this cycle. They will be 4A. People out here talking like they should be favorite over TJ next year.

  1063. Kevin X says:

    Decided not to put my neck out on the line, so no weekend predictions from me. Based on my few prediction debacles during the year (granted two were long term, early season, another ECP/Imhotep 4A final and a Coatesville/Harrisburg 6A D1/D3 semi final match-up), and more recently, a DTW win over CD. Obviously not going to make a living off of HS football predictions. I’ll let you guys go on the record and follow your results and give some shout outs afterwards on nice picks (and the opposite will hold true as well).

    Back to H-Burg and CD. I watched on YouTube the regular season match-up between those two the other night, and its still not sinking in how CD ran all over DTW last Friday. Either the Harrisburg ‘D” is really good, the DTW “D’ is really bad (especially against the run) or CD is just improving and hitting their stride at the right time. Guessing more like a combo of all 3. Thing is, pretty sure SJP’s “D” even w/o Trotter, is a lot closer to Harrisburg’s “D” than DTW’s defense.

    Also with that regular season H-Burg/CD game, sorry about going back a few months, but OMG, did Harrisburg ever get F’ed. Was there any fallout from that game ending/time clock issue?? One reason I bring it up, it could have had a real domino effect within 6A D3. If H-Burg had a chance to kick a game winning chip shot field goal, the whole top of the D3 ratings could have been different, and maybe played out quite differently. At a minimum, I think Harrisburg would have had the home field in a championship game against CD. Oh well, water under the bridge at this point……

  1064. Tornado Fan says:


    The excitement in the community through the playoffs leading up to the championship games was amazing. In an area that doesn’t have much else going on, it was all people talked about (it probably still is). People always said “last one out of town, turn out the lights” because the whole damn town was in Altoona or Hershey for the game. 1994 when Mt. Carmel, Southern and Berwick all brought home state titles to the region was the best. Hoping for a competitive and injury free championship weekend!

  1065. Jeff H says:

    @ Mike A – yeah, I saw that on PennLive, I agree with most of their point spreads, with one exception, they have Central Valley and Wyoming as a pick em, which I don’t understand at all, if I was making a line I would have CV -14, based on recent history of WPIAL success in this class, having seen CV play, and comments on here about how Wyoming doesn’t handle speed well and has a tendency to be undisciplined, all of those to me add up to a fairly comfortable win for CV. I think PennLive put too much stock in CV’s narrow 13-12 OT victory over Aliquippa in the WPIAL title game, following their blowout 45-6 win in the last regular season game, but Aliquippa is Aliquippa, these 2 schools are neighbors and bitter rivals, and Aliquippa played an extremely inspired game trying to win for their QB whose mother died the night before the championship game.

  1066. D3 Mike says:

    @Jeff, Wood used to play a few D1 teams before they started their PCL slate. They lost to North Penn in 2012 before blowing NP off the field in 2013 and 2014. Speaking of, does anyone know what class Wood will be playing at in the next cycle? I haven’t seen the enrollment numbers for D12 yet – wasn’t Wood near the cut-off of being 5A (by enrollment) this cycle? And then there’s the success factor to consider. Interested to see where some of the traditional non-boundary powers in the East end up next year (Wood, McDevitt, BC, BECA, Imhotep, etc).

    Also, I saw South Fayette is moving up to 5A. With ECP also moving up, should we just go ahead and put Thomas Jefferson in the 2020 and 2021 PIAA semi-finals awhile? I think they roll today against an excellent Dallas team. IMO, this year’s TJ squad is just too physical for other 4As to handle.

  1067. Kevin X says:

    Pretty cool article about Cheltenham and their football program from Forbes magazine of all publications.

    Just wish that their game against Wood could have been played at Upper Dublin Friday night!!!

  1068. Mike A says:

    PennLive has SJP a 6 point favorite over CD. Here are the other picks.

  1069. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H and NW PA

    Thanks for the more in depth Avonworth info. Ya read my mind!!! I never hear of Avonworth, so did an on-line search and the first thing that popped up was…..Mom drops lawsuit against the PIAA…..rut row, probably not good. Long story short, found limited info (locked out of the Pitt P-G website, too many free articles :)) and figure just ask you guys. Sounds like another kid caught up in the PIAA new, and inconsistent, transfer rule. Like NW PA, I find some of this transfer stuff fascinating as well, but not so much in a good way. More on all of that later.

    Speaking of the PPG, saw a tweet from Mike White that the PIAA is releasing the names of the schools that are “playing up” tomorrow. I don’t know if that means based on the new success factor, voluntarily, from new 2 year enrollment numbers, or all of the above. Some of you western guys have been already talking about WPIAL schools and their new classifications. Guess I missed the memo, but were the new 2-year cycle enrollment numbers released for each school?? I only saw that the PIAA released the enrollment parameters of all sports for each classifications.

    Anyways, tons of off season fodder to kick around, from transfers, first time success factor results, new enrollment figs, PPL rumors, team nicknames/mascots (hint, Neshaminy), but for the next few days…..let the games begin!!! Good luck to all!!!

    ps….anybody plan on being in Hershey at anytime over the next 3 days???

  1070. Foleman says:

    Such a sad story, great kid from a great family.

  1071. Jeff H says:

    @ D3 Mike – some interesting stats, nice research, obviously we know one of the publics Wood lost to was Penn Hills last year, out of curiosity who is the other public school they lost to? I know they lost to Imhotep in the D12 final in 2015, but you’re not counting charter schools. Another Wood stat is they have either won the state title or lost in the playoffs to the eventual champion since the PCL joined the PIAA in 2008, and that streak continues even if they lose on Friday, which I doubt they will.

  1072. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark D & Neutral Observer – yes, Central Valley is loaded, maybe not quite as good as Aliquippa last year, better than Quaker Valley from 2017, and as good or better than Beaver Falls from 2016, I’m expecting them to win by 3 scores and think they likely score 5-6 Tds If Wyoming doesn’t handle speed well they are in trouble, because CV has a bunch of guys that can run, and they have a balanced offense that will likely hit some deep passes against Wyoming’s secondary. If CV wins they will be the fourth different team from the same Beaver County conference to win 3A, I’ll have more comments on that game later in the week.

    Some thoughts and predictions for the games tomorrow

    1A Farrell vs. BG – I think the two best 1A teams played last week when Farrell beat Clairton, if Farrell’s defense is good enough to hold high scoring Clairton to only 10 points I think they will also shut down BG’s offense, Farrell has too much team speed, I’ll pick Farrell 27-10

    4A TJ vs. Dallas – really surprised a lot of you guys think this will be a high scoring game, I assume you realize TJ has given up a grand total of 62 points all year, which is an average of 4.1/game, and the most they have given up in any game was 13 to Erie Prep 2 weeks ago. No one has stopped TJ’s power running game yet, Dallas might slow them down a bit, but they are not going to stop them, and they have a more than adequate passing game when Dallas starts loading the box, think it will be close for a while but TJ wears them down and wins 34-14.

  1073. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Just a comment on Wyoming Area saw a few games this year. They are not very well disciplined and I think it will bite them you know where. They had a few cheap shots on Southern’s 2nd team after they were totally embarrassed just glad to see no one was injured. that night.. I do think their undisciplined actions will be their downfall.

  1074. PSU88 says:

    Have to say that there is nothing like Championship week for Southern Columbia. Having kids gone through the program. It still gives me chills to watch all the activities for kids, school and community. Their is school pep rally, community pep rally, team meal, team breakfast, community celebration after the game, etc. Not sure what other teams do but Southern kids get to experience something special. Good Luck to all the teams. Stay safe.

  1075. NW PA says:

    @New2PA: I would assume that if a team is gonna be 4A next cycle that they would just stay there and not play up. I think a couple more teams are actually moving to 3A as well. I think Meadville may be the only other true 5A team in the district next cycle. I doubt anyone who is voluntarily playing up this current cycle will choose to do so the next cycle.

    Looking forward to some good games the next few days.

  1076. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I’m assuming that Central Valley is at least comparable to the last few 3A teams from the West. I don’t think 2019 Wyoming Area is anywhere near as talented as the 2016-18 Middletown teams were. Other than QB#9 Dom DeLuca, no one on Wyoming Area scares me (including the O-line). I also think Wyoming Area (as a team) can be easily rattled and goaded into dumb penalties. They didn’t face much adversity in D2, but I bet they will against Central Valley. I would not be at all surprised to see the game get out of control.

  1077. Jeff H says:

    @ District Commissioner – well put, I agree with you SJP is up against it this week, with all their injuries they are now merely a very good team and not a dominant team, they still may win the state title, but the game against CD on Saturday is going to be a battle and I too would not be surprised if CD wins. I give them a lot of credit for their win over PCC last week, they got outplayed and didn’t do much on offense in the 2nd half but were still able to put together an 82 yard drive with under 3 minutes to go when their season was on the line and scored the tying TD with less than 20 seconds to play to send the game to OT.

  1078. D3 Mike says:

    * correction, Wood is 38-2 vs. boundary schools (i.e. non-charter public schools).

  1079. D3 Mike says:

    I just can’t believe we voted him commissioner of the district. There was no one else in central PA who wanted the job?

    Interesting Twitter discussion about the competitiveness of games since they moved to 6 classes. Half of the state title games have invoked the mercy rule over the past 3 years, with only 3 of the 18 games being decided by fewer than 2 touchdowns (17%). Compare that to 57% when there were 4 classes. Food for thought. Hopefully this weekend reverses the trend.

    I’ll take the same 6 teams everyone else took. Some random factoids:

    6A: Half of CD’s games were decided by a TD or less this year. Since 2011, they are 20-7 in the playoffs with 6 of the 7 losses coming by < 2 TDs.

    5A: Archbishop Wood is 38-2 vs. non-boundary schools this decade.

    4A: Thomas Jefferson is 3-4 vs. D10 and 7-0 vs. all other districts in 8 trips to the PIAA playoffs.

    3A: D2 and D7 have split their 12 all-time state finals match-ups, with D2 dropping all 5 this century.

    2A: If SCA wins, RB Gaige Garcia finishes his career 63-0 as a starter.

    1A: Geographically, Hershey is 13.5 hours from where Farrell and Bishop Guilfoyle should probably be playing tomorrow's game.

  1080. mark d says:

    @neutral what do you know about central valley that makes you think that Wyoming area has no chance .Are they that fast becuse i know that Wyoming doesn’t handle speed for Dallas i agree a shoot out but Dallas 42 TJ 38 i think their just a team of destiny

  1081. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark D – I have not seen Dallas play but have read plenty about them, and I think they match up pretty well with TJ. I will say TJ has one of the best offensive lines in the state regardless of class, and I am of the opinion TJ is better and would beat either of the 2 schools playing for the 5A title, but 6A is a whole different animal.

  1082. Jeff H says:

    @New2PA – thanks for the info, surprised McKeesport is not playing up like they have for the last 4 years, that will help 4A make up for the loss of South Fayette…I think SF is going to struggle to be much above 500 in 5A, given they lost to Upper St Clair the last 2 years and USC was nothing special either year. But yeah, 5A in the WPIAL will be loaded again next year and with ECP playing up that will make 5A even stronger come playoff time.

    @NW PA – completely agree with you there is inconsistency statewide in enforcing the rules, the WPIAL has historically taken a very strong stance against transfers, and are often overruled by the PIAA, but this time the PIAA agreed with the WPIAL, which is very unusual.

    Moronic, ignorant comments like those from District 3 Commish regarding SJP do not deserve a response.

  1083. Tornado Fan says:


    1A: Farrell 28, BG 6

    2A: Southern Columbia 56, Avonworth 7

    3A: Central Valley 38, Wyoming Area 28

    4A: TJ 35, Dallas 21

    5A: AB Wood 28, Cheltenham 21

    6A: SJP 35, CD 24

  1084. District Commissioner says:

    District 3 commissioner is to be ignored. There are people who cannot be invited to debate because they are incapable. He is one. School districts dividing have nothing to do with “letting kids play”. These are demographic, economic moves deemed necessary by the school boards and the tax bases. Sometimes it puts pressure on the tax base, sometimes it doesn’t. But football is not on the list of concerns. But thanks for trolling. It’s the same thing every year on any board. Local team has great year, local team goes into state playoffs, local team sees speed and size for the first time and loses their sh!t because they thought this was the year the boys would get one. If it isn’t the District 12 “all star” teams, then it is the apartments in the area that the winning hs stashes their best players. Or the family that moved to the area just for football. PS….I think CD pulls this off this weekend. Prep is against the wall here and the Prep people will be the first to tell you that.

  1085. Neutral Observer says:

    My predictions:

    1A: Farrell 42, Bishop Guilfoyle 14

    2A: Southern Columbia 49, Avonworth 14 (starts out 49-0)

    3A: Central Valley 56, Wyoming Area 6
 (mercy rule in the first half)

    4A: Thomas Jefferson 42, Dallas 38
 (offensive shootout)

    5A: Archbishop Wood 38, Cheltenham 10

    6A: Central Dauphin 21, St. Joe’s Prep 20

  1086. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, I was just checking out the PCN TV website and saw that they changed their ridiculous $12.95 one day subscription to a much more sensible $14.95 monthly subscription (the yearly $34.95 is still available). So if you don’t have PCN for free with your traditional cable service, this new monthly option might work for you now, as all 6 championship games would be available (and on-demand for later viewing within the subscription month). There is a Roku app so you can watch on your regular TV and not be subject to watching on a PC or small screen portable device.

  1087. Mark T says:

    District 3 Commish going off the rails. Calling teenage kids cowards is a new low even for the obsessed ego maniacs on this board. What would you have the school do to avoid being cowardice? Close? The Prep has students come from all over the Delaware valley who never play a sport. That’s the makeup of the school. From North Philly to Downington to South Jersey. Been that way for a long time, long before athletics at the school competed on any level in the catholic league. So they decided to give their programs a boost, particularly football.


    Oh well, that’s life. I ran into plenty of unfair advantages growing up. Going to the Prep gave me multiple advantages in not just athletics but also life. I would have went to Samuel Adela if the members or this message board had their way. Now why in the world would I pass up on an opportunity to attend a fantastic academic institution that I continue to make connections from today in my professional life? Because I’m a coward? Or is it because I accepted the challenge of going to high school without having a single childhood friend to go with? Or took on the well over three hours a night of homework? I don’t believe that makes me a coward at all sir I believe that made me successful.

    Stooping to the level of personally insulting these kids is downright sad and quite frankly infuriating. There is no place for that in high school athletics and posts such as those; again calling teenage kids COWARDA, should not be allowed on this board.

  1088. Mcd65 says:

    District 3 commish, well I was always interested in your opinions until that rant. Not that you give a damn ,but you sure lost all credibility and respect from me ,

  1089. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H/Kevin X: I find the story about the PCC athlete to Avonworth fascinating. A very similar situation happened in D-10 this year with a much different result. I only tell this story to show the inconsistency in how the new rules are enforced. The young man is a great kid from a great family. The athlete transferred from Erie Prep to Harborcreek (A suburb of Erie) after their sophomore season. They requested a playoff waiver and were granted one. I’m not sure why they transferred but it was not in any way financial. Back to my main point, there is NO consistency in how any of the new rules are enforced. Erie High lost another stud to McDowell in the off season and the athlete was granted a playoff waiver. Erie High is no more than 5 miles from McDowell. Millcreek (Erie’s biggest suburb) is more affluent than Erie so tell me the “hardship” exemption. What generally happens in sticky situations like this is the athletes family requests a closed door hearing and no one ever finds out what they said or if it’s in any way true. The kid from Avonworth should have requested a closed door hearing and had his family tell half truths, lies, or exaggerations, it works here all the time.

  1090. Frank Gavin says:

    @ District 3 … Why the anger and the shouting–and what in the world does courage or cowardice have to do with this week’s game?

  1091. New2PA says:

    I’m assuming all those 4A schools in D10 that played 5A to avoid Erie Prep will now play 4A?

  1092. New2PA says:

    Jeff H.:

    Here are the 5A teams. McKeesport is not playing up and Plum, Armstrong, Mars, Hampton and Chartiers Valley dropped to 4A. South Fayette is in 5A this cycle. So 5A is down 5 teams total to 18.

    Pine Richland
    Upper Saint Clair
    Peters Township
    Fox Chapel
    Bethel Park
    Greater Latrobe
    North Hills
    South Fayette
    Franklin Regional
    Penn Hills
    Woodland Hills
    West Allegheny

    At least 13 of these 18 made the playoffs this year. Loaded with P-R, Gateway, Peters Twp, Penn Trafford, Penn Hills, South Fayette, Bethel Park, USC, etc.

    Add in Erie Prep at the West is loaded with teams.

  1093. District 3 Commish says:

    Stack Mush Mouth

    -You did not answer the question.
    – Your program is full of cowards that are afraid to compete on a level playing field so they create an All Star team.
    – CD actually split their district in half to create two teams so more kids can play thus weakening what would be one better team…. same as Central Bucks, West Chester and many more. Don’t think your cowardly school would ever do that as it would weaken the “program”.
    – Your coaches routinely show up at youth football games in the Downingtown & Coatesville area to recruit players.
    – Your “district” has 10,000,000 people with a one hour radius to select top athletes.
    – COWARDS!!!!!!!!!!

  1094. VIKINGpride says:

    My State Championship picks…..
    A: Farrell 31 – Bishop G 13

    AA: SC 49 – Avonworth 0

    AAA: Wyoming Area 21 – Central Valley 20

    AAAA: TJ 28 – Dallas 24

    AAAAA: Wood 34 – Cheltenham 20

    AAAAAA: SJ Prep 42 – CD 10

  1095. Jeff H says:

    @District3Rep & Gary Z – will also add that Middletown had to win 2 games against teams from other districts just to get to Hershey each year, so they were clearly the best 3A team in the eastern bracket in 2016-2018.

  1096. MARK D says:

    @GARY Z have you seen Dallas play ??? Dallas offence of line is big strong and nasty>If Tj is that much better than them i think they beat anybody in the state

  1097. District3Rep says:

    @ GaryZ

    I’m not sure what games you were watching in regards to Middletown in the finals. Middletown shot themselves in the foot for about 4-5 minutes in each of those finals that blew the doors open. Other than those 4-5 minutes, Mtown showed they belonged in the game.

    BF – Game was 16-13 with 10 mins left. – BF Pick 6 to end the scoring that day with about 3 mins left in game – ended 30-13.
    QV – Game was 7-7 with 4 mins left in 1st Half – 2 quick turnovers deep in own end led to QV Td’s right before half.
    Aliquippa – Game was 7-0 with 4 mins left in 3rd Quarter. And Aliquippa team would probably have beaten over half the state championship teams in Hershey that weekend.

    Don’t get me wrong, the better teams won those games. But to say what you’re saying is not sticking with facts about Middletown and the East.

  1098. 6-2 Stack Monster says:

    @ District 3 Commish:

    Assuming that your question isn’t just a thinly veiled, passive-aggressive shot at the Prep that should be directed to your neighbors at the PIAA, here are some responses to it:

    The same number of student athletes that
    – did have to travel 4 hours two years in a row to play a semifinal game
    – did not have a convenient quarterfinal bye
    – do not have their own practice facility, let alone a taxpayer funded stadium to play games in
    – had to pass an entrance exam and are held to a higher academic standard
    – are subject to grown ass adults like you spouting tainted rhetoric and innuendo

    Central Dauphin is a big, talented, well-coached, fundamentally sound, and as far as I can tell, fearless squad that has a legit opportunity to win a trophy on Saturday. No need for you to act as their chief apologist, nor to undermine the efforts and achievements of either squad.

  1099. Jeff H says:

    @Philly Boy – if Prep was fully healthy I agree it would be delusional to think CD had a realistic chance to beat them. However, I saw Prep play last Saturday in person and PCC outplayed them in the 2nd half, and I have thought for the last 2 months CD is as good or better than PCC, I know their O-Line is comparable to PCC and if PCC ran on SJP as well as they did it appears to me that CD can as well. I honestly thought Prep would win last week by 3 scores even without McCord, Trotter and the other guys who are hurt, but PCC gave them all they could handle, which leads me to believe CD could very well beat them on Saturday. I might also add they have a much better head coach than PCC and I would be surprised if this game is not very competitive and close in the 2nd half, assuming McCord doesn’t play, the rumors I’ve heard is he’s out for the year with a knee injury so I would be shocked if he plays, its common knowledge Trotter is out for the season, not sure about the other guys.

  1100. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X- regarding the Avonworth transfer question, Kyros Thorpe lives in the Avonworth district but played for Pittsburgh Central Catholic the last 2 years and transferred back to Avonworth in July. The WPIAL ruled he didn’t meet any of the waiver guidelines and therefore was ineligible to play in the playoffs, and the PIAA upheld the WPIAL ruling (usually the PIAA overrules the WPIAL decision, but in this case they upheld it). He is a receiver and cornerback and I believe led the team in touchdowns during the regular season. The question entering the playoffs was whether Avonworth was good enough to win the WPIAL title without him and they obviously were up to the task and made it to Hershey. His mother and attorney filed a lawsuit in Allegheny Common Pleas Court on the Thursday prior to the WPIAL championship game on 11/23 seeking an injunction to let him play, but the WPIAL and PIAA threatened to appeal and said if they won Avonworth would be stripped of any playoff victories he appeared in so his family wisely withdrew the lawsuit. They had a tremendous season,15-0 and first WPIAL title in 60 years speaks for itself, but they aren’t going to beat So Col with or without him so at this time its a moot point as far as that goes. I’m not sure this is what the PIAA had in mind with the transfer rules, going from a private back to a public district he’s lived in for years, that seems a bit harsh to me but those are the rules and the family supposedly couldn’t prove he should get the hardship exemption but that’s open for debate and why the family initially filed the lawsuit.

    @New2PA – who moved out of 5A to drop to it18 teams, there were 23 this year, I know Baldwin is going up, but PR coming down, and South Fayette moving up from 4A, so if anything I figured there would still be 23-24 teams in 5A, do you know who dropped to 4A that played 5A the last few years? Did you take into account a school like McKeesport that is 4A but plays up?

    @NW PA – I hear you about Erie Prep not being as dominant in the next few years, but at a school like Prep with Mishler at coach you guys reload and never rebuild, so I am still expecting ECP to be a factor in the state playoffs even in 5A. Wood is unquestionably down this year by their lofty standards yet they still made it to Hershey, albeit catching a big break with Derrick Davis not being able to play, but my point is ECP will still be a factor and someone’s going to have to play well to knock them out and no doubt they make 5A a deeper and stronger class than this year. If you guys played 5A this year Wood would have to have beaten you and Gateway to get to Hershey, no small task.

  1101. Matt says:

    My State Championship picks…..

    A: Farrell 27 – Bishop G 13
    AA: SC 42 – Avonworth 7
    AAA: Central Valley 28 – Wyoming Area 13
    AAAA: TJ 21 – Dallas 14
    AAAAA: Wood 26 – Cheltenham 20
    AAAAAA: SJ Prep 31 – CD 10

    Good luck to all teams

  1102. 4th and Long says:

    Guys, I don’t want to get too far over my skis or misrepresent my comments about the PPL considering leaving the PIAA. It comes from being told most PPL schools aren’t setting their schedules for next season yet with the reason being given they’re considering leaving the PIAA and are awaiting a decision and further guidance. NE Philly advertising for games on this very site puts my understanding the specifics of that into question. Also, I don’t know why it really makes a difference for scheduling out of conference games, since PIAA schools have no restrictions against playing non-PIAA schools, so I obviously don’t know a lot about this other than to say something is up in the PPL.

    I don’t have huge differences with you guys, in some respects I’m not really sure I disagree with much that’s been said. The one thing I will say is the PPL is a bellwether because I think there’s a lot of dissatisfaction with the state of the PIAA outside of the PPL. It’s a vastly different HS sports landscape than it was 15 years ago.

    I probably should have waited to open this can o worms and let you guys focus on the teams and players heading into finals week, since that’s where it belongs this time of year. I’ve always been impressed by the knowledge of teams and players on this site. Plenty of time to talk about the admin stuff later.

  1103. D3 Mike says:

    If only Middletown had the revolutionary offensive system and Lombardi-like coaching staff of a Beaver Falls or a Quaker Valley, they too could have gone 1-9 or 2-7 right after appearing in a state title game instead of just winning 14 and showing up in Hershey again the next year. Definitely coaching and scheme, not one-off senior classes.

  1104. Kevin X says:

    @ 4th and Long

    Guess it’s just me, but still not getting the canary in the coal mine reference if the PPL leaves the PIAA. I’m not in the “good riddance” camp that I mentioned before, but I would not be shedding any tears over them leaving either. Is it going to be the beginning of the end of the PIAA?? I actually think it might be good for all parties involved. They can do their own thing, make and play by their own rules, and it wouldn’t restrict them from playing against any PIAA schools in any sport. Just state tournaments. The PAISAA seems to be functioning quite nicely as an independent athletic association, why couldn’t the PPL?? The PPL hasn’t been relevant or competitive in any sport that I know of on a statewide basis recently other than Imhotep in football, and a handful of smaller charter schools in boys basketball.

  1105. Foleman says:

    Why would the PPL leave the PIAA? I could not find any info anywhere on the web regarding this. Could it be the new transfer rules? Philly is transfer/recruiting central when it comes to athletes. Charter schools killed PPL football and basketball, not the PCL. Take away the Charter schools and the Phil Pubs would be winning State Championships every year in basketball. In football, the Philly Pubs always played 2nd fiddle to the Catholic league, Take away TEP and the rest of the Charters and PUB football would be stronger but they still would not compete for State Championships.. A few years ago the Phil Pub coaches were pushing for a rule where athletes should play for the local public school where they reside, it went nowhere.

  1106. District 3 Commish says:

    How many student athletes competing in the Pennsylvania Class 5A & 6A State Championships do not live in Pennsylvania?

  1107. GaryZ says:

    @D3 Mike
    Any of the teams that played Middletown in final could have played them the next day after playing on Friday and blown them off the field. Honestly nothing to do w ‘bye week’ or how many teams. Middletown did not have the athletes or coaching to play w those teams. Honestly I hope this Sat is more competitive, maybe like ya said when it was 10 years ago and 4 classes. However, no disrespect, I wouldn’t count on it. C. Valley blows em off the field. Actually I think they would have got mercy ruled by Class A Jeanette or Farrell in the past few years. I sincerely mean that too. They had no speed and the Offense was so predictable, I actually felt bad. So not gonna debate 10 years ago when their were 4 classes and how District 3 rep just had a bad day. There is a bad day, then there is a team that looks like it has never seen a squad like they are playing before. That was Middletown, something tells me Wyo is gonna be down too on Sat. If they only had a bye week.

  1108. phillyboy says:

    I never heard about the rumor of the Philadelphia Public League potentially leaving the PIAA. The PPL to the PIAA: we quit! (Lol) I remember when they joined back in ’04. True story: soon after they joined I had a chance encounter with the superintendent of the School District of Philadelphia, at the time Paul Vallas, at a restaurant in the Roxborough section of the city. I commended him for his efforts to join the PIAA. It was under his direction that it happened. To come full circle, that would be crazy but somewhat understandable. They’re tired of getting dominated in states, but the bigger issue may have to do with saving money. On a side note, I thought the WPIAL should have bargained harder with the PIAA, they should have held their ground about not going to 6 classes.

  1109. FrankG