EPA Statewide Scoreboard

2020 Football Forum

Written by: on Monday, January 7th, 2019. Follow David Mika on Twitter.


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2020 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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1,551 Responses to “2020 Football Forum”

  1. sausmann9 says:

    @ Jack Mac – yes ACC just hired McGory last season. Prior to that Bob Petibone coached ACC for like two or three seasons right after Jon Cupples retired. Before Cupples it was Donnie Roberts and Harold Faircloth. This is McGory’s second season. He has a pretty nice resume to bring into ACC. Plus he is one of the three ACC quarterbacks that won a title at ACC so he’s homegrown for sure.

  2. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I predicted a Mifflin blowout, This might be Mifflin’s best team and Wilson lost a ton on both sides of the ball. Plus never underestimate the power of emotion, many of the Mifflin players and fans thought that Wilson ran up the score last year. Plus the disparaging comments from the Wilson faithful about the best player in the area last year didn’t help. I can’t remember a game where WIlson got beat up physically like that. The West Catholic transfer looks like a player and will make Mifflin even stronger. By the way, where is that guy from last year that said Wilson had 3 running backs as good as Singleton? They will have to deal with him next year too.

  3. David Mika says:

    Jack Mac….I am a co-owner of D11Sports.com….I am glad you enjoyed the game…We have a game live Friday & Saturday night!

  4. Jack Mac says:

    @Sausmann9 I watched the ACC game I thought they were impressive as well. Did they get a new coach? Or has this guy been there for a while? I saw a game of theirs a few years ago and they were terribly awful. Used to live in the valley and followed them closely in the 90s. This D11Sports broadcasting games is great for me to catch up on the valley.

  5. D3 Mike says:

    Is there another chat room? I was told last year by multiple Wilson West Lawn stans that none of the rushing yards counted for future 3-time, all-state RB Nick Singleton since Governor Mifflin plays “The Little Sisters of the Poor” (as if anyone in Lancaster-Lebanon-1 has done anything but go 0-9 outside of District 3/6 over the past thirty years) and that the Bulldogs had RBs who were just as good? After 180 yards, 4 TDs, and Mifflin demolishing Wilson 48-7 on Friday, I would love to continue that conversation.

    It’s early, but the winner of Governor Mifflin and Warwick out of D3 looks like the favorite to get drubbed by the WPIAL champ in 5A in the state semi-finals (assuming they keep the brackets).

    Kevin, not sure. Under normal circumstances, taking only 4 teams would hurt schools like McDevitt and Berks Catholic because their brutal schedules sometimes drop them out of the top 4. Don’t think it will matter this year. Only two non-top 4 teams have won a district-3 title in the past decade, BTW, and only 1 since we went to 6 classes; I think that was their reasoning for taking only 4.

  6. sausmann9 says:

    wow, ACC (allentown central catholic) looked really good last night against Whitehall. (both D11 ACC 4A and Whitehall 5A). ACC a team to keep an eye on from here on out!

  7. Kevin X says:

    Just saw that the Warwick/Conestoga Valley game that was originally schedule for 9/25 is back on. Just a day later, on Saturday the 26th to allow CV to get the PIAA required practices in before a game.

    So that make my scheduling easier, we’ll match-up LaSalle vs. Governor Mifflin and Berks Catholic vs. Wilson Area on September 25th. We’ll then get LaSalle and Berks Catholic together on October 9th/10th. You’re welcome, now let’s play!!!

    BTW, to you D3 folks, what’s the deal with only having 4 playoff participants in classes 3A, 4A, 5A and 6A?? They are only taking 4 of 29 teams in 5A?? Has the PIAA come up with a revised (abbreviated??) or updated state football playoff format?? I’ve been beating the drum about having too many teams in the football post season, but only 4 of 29 is going to the opposite extreme.

  8. Kevin X says:

    LaSalle, Warwick, Governor Mifflin, Berks Catholic and Wilson Area (D11) all appear to have an open date next weekend (September 25/26). Some potentially juicy match-ups amongst that group. Gov. Miff and Berks Cath. guessing not a possibility as they are already scheduled to play later in the season. Hopefully something can get worked out between 4 of 5 of those schools, if not all 5 somehow/someway. Not a year to leave open dates on the table.

  9. Irish1 says:

    Schools in coal region play this past weekend,schools all over the state playing next weekend. But of course schools in district one and Philly archdiocese cancel the season. Nonsense

  10. Neutral Observer says:

    @Blakely Bear

    You’re right; I can’t think of another time when Valley View went to such extremes to duck a team. Other than Western Wayne avoiding DV earlier this year, I can’t even think of any other team going to these lengths either.

    THAT is why the LIAA is coming down so hard on VV…so that this type of behavior does NOT become more common.

    The LIAA is made up of other school admins/ADs/coaches who ALSO might have to cancel games in 2020 bc of COVID. Apparently, they think the VV/DV situation is distinguishable from that and worthy of sanctions. Otherwise, they’re setting a dangerous precedent for themselves.

    People would be less offended if VV had tried to make the argument that it is just not safe to have a game on 10/2. No one is going to criticize VV for legit safety/COVID concerns.

    But VV didn’t make that argument. VV just said that they won’t be in shape for state-ranked DV 3 weeks from now. But then, just 7 days later, Valley View WILL be in shape for a Honesdale team that won 2 games in 2019.

    KevinX and C.Johnson are correct. If VV were projected to win their 10/2 game, then this would not even be an issue. You even noted that yourself — the issue is the size of DV’s roster.

    Until C.Johnson posted it, I did not realize how much DV (10-2) has owned Valley View (2-10). Circumstantial evidence because every year is different, but still very interesting.

    As for an admin doing what is best for his students, I think it’s just a difference in philosophies. DV goes out of their way to schedule tough opponents to challenge their kids (i.e. going to Florida every year, LaSalle in 2020), while 4A Valley View schedules 2A Lakeland, 3A Western Wayne and 3A Scranton Prep to build their kids’ self-confidence.

    Finally, obviously all of this nonsense is coming from the adults in charge. I have no doubt that the VV kids would love the challenge of playing DV on 10/2. It’s too bad they won’t be given that opportunity.

  11. C.Johnson says:

    @ blakeley bear


    this article and video says they have been practicing during the summer. a group of 10 had to isolate due to exposure. “while rest of the team continued working out as normal”
    So was it really a “shutdown” if only a group of 10 couldn’t participate?

    I agree with Kevin X, if they were opening with Honesdale – Valley View wouldn’t be worried about their kids being in “football shape”.

    Everyone in the country has had to adjust to the restrictions this summer. No teams have been working out as normal. No 7on7s no football camps. everyone is in the same boat. And WNEP said Valley View was holding workouts anyway. So this complaining about not being in “football shape”, give me a break. If you have a serious high school athlete, they are in shape. They didn’t spend all summer eating doritos and playing video games. They were running and doing stuff on their own. Cause if they were gonna have any chance at having a season – they would be making the most of it.

    And who has 80-90 kids on their roster? NEPAfootball shared team photos. Delval and Dallas both have like 50 kids in their photo. Wilkes Barre has 40. Did IMG academy open up a scranton campus? so would be nice if you got your facts straight.
    And valley view has no problem with classifications when they put AA lakeland on the schedule.
    Valley view ducked DV in 2018 and 2019. They didn’t play dv.
    According to maxpreps, Valley view is 2 and 10 against DV since 2004. And as of now they are 2 and 11 with this forfeit.

  12. Kevin X says:

    So if Valley View was scheduled to play the likes of Mid Valley, Honesdale or the aforementioned Western Wayne that first weekend in October, they would have cancelled that game as well??

    I see that D3’s Conestoga Valley is the latest team to cancel an upcoming game, Sept. 25th against Warwick. Isn’t Warwick a top 10, even a top 5, 5A team in the state?? Looks like another D3 opponent LaSalle can pick up, as they have Manheim Township next week.

  13. Blakely Bear says:

    Neutral Observer
    Would be nice if you get your facts straight. VV has had almost no conditioning all summer. Had to shut down twice to be safe. They would need a few weeks of conditioning before even putting the equipment on. The issue isn’t 3 weeks getting ready to play a game, it’s getting in football shape, not to mention playing a roster of 80-90 kids. If you read the superintendent’s statement when they originally shut down, you would have been impressed with how the district put the health of, not only the kids, but the community at large, ahead of sports. And his statement the day after the Lackawanna meeting on the sanctions, put in no uncertain terms, that he felt the possible playoff sanctions are unfair. The forfeit itself isn’t the issue.
    And ducking DV? Can you remember VV ducking any team? Don’t equate this with Western Wayne not wanting to play a team 3 classes up, which they shouldn’t have to under any conditions. This is an administrator doing what he was hired to do, putting the well-being of students under his charge first.

  14. George says:

    Does District 1 have any upcoming scrimmages?

  15. Neutral Observer says:

    @ Kevin X

    I agree with you on the Valley View situation. 3 weeks is plenty of time to prep for a game. This looks like VV is just trying to avoid a probable loss to DV.

    Apparently, the LIAA also agrees with us because in the initial Scranton Times story, it mentioned how the LIAA was going to recommend to District 2 that it lay sanctions against Valley View (i.e. playoff eligibility). Like Ex-Crusader mentioned below, the LIAA is also pushing for VV to take a forfeit instead of just a cancellation.


    Weirdly, VV is the second LIAA team this season to try to avoid DV this year. When the original pre-COVID 2020 schedules game out, 3A Western Wayne was all upset about having to play 6A Delaware Valley. If I remember correctly, WW was also claiming safety issues due to the difference in classification. WW eventually scheduled Lower Moreland and DV replaced WW with (I think) Downingtown West.

  16. Foleman says:

    Kutztown just cancelled its opener against Twin Valley citing low roster numbers-18 kids total and this includes a co-op with Brandywine HS. It’s time for Kutztown to drop football, Low numbers have been a problem for years, the kids at Kutztown, and Brandywine HS for that matter have no interest in playing football. I saw the Coach and AD put out fliers in the school trying to get more kids out for the team. Even if they do start up again this year, a couple of injuries and they are done for the year. I doubt they will play Wyomissing due to health concerns.

  17. Kevin X says:

    @ Ex-Crusader

    That makes no sense (I’m not shooting the messenger). October 2nd is 3 weeks from today, and guessing this was announced days ago. 3 plus weeks not to be ready?? Did they not have any off season sessions or voluntary workouts?? Or are they currently in quarantine or lockdown?? I know they had some minor issues not too long ago. So if some lesser opponent comes knocking with a nice offer for a game the first weekend in October, they’ll have to take a pass I suppose.

  18. Ex-Crusader says:

    Valley View is still playing this season, but they are claiming that they will not have enough time to get ready to play on Del Val on October 2nd.

    “Valley View AD Chris Killiany has informed Delaware Valley AD Chris Ross that the Cougars will not play their LFC crossover game schedules for Oct. 2 due to the late start for practice caused by the fall sports shutdowns endured in the summer and in August.”

    This cancellation has dropped Del Val to only 3 games this season, as LFC member Abington Heights has canceled all contact sports. There are rumors that this “cancellation” will be a forfeit win for Del Val, but nothing official yet. Glad to see Del Val was able to pick up a quality opponent for that week.

    In D2, the Lackawanna Football Conference is only having a 5 game schedule this year (starting on October 2) while the Wyoming Valley Conference will play an 8 game slate, starting tomorrow.

    Riverside, in the LFC, did not follow with that conference, and they scheduled 2 or 3 games in September. As far as I know, they are the only LFC team starting early.

  19. Mike says:

    If St Joes Prep plays OJR it will be a rout and over in the first quarter

  20. Foleman says:

    Scheduling is an absolute mess for many teams. Berks Catholic has 4 games scheduled for the season, they can forget about making the playoffs with 2 of the games against Governor Mifflin and Exeter. In Berks, Daniel Boone, Muhlenberg, Exeter, Wyomissing-(super matchup with S. Columbia Cancelled) and Governor Mifflin also have openings. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Boone/Muhlenberg play each other twice. As a fan I wish Mifflin-ranked #8 in 5A or Exeter, honorable mention top 10 5A team, man up to play St. Joe Prep or LaSalle but it’s just wishful thinking on my part.

  21. Kevin X says:

    So, looks like LaSalle just got their first dance partner, @ Delaware Valley on October 2nd. Very nice, well done!! Believe that is Del Val’s opener. Guess we’ll see how LaSalle’s future schedule will play out.

    You guys up in D2, is Valley View playing football this fall?? Seems like they were going back and forth about football and athletics. Looking like they were Del Val’s original opponent on 10/2. Or was that game just cancelled for some reason.

    Guess now Del Val can work on scheduling St. Joe Prep to fill their October 30/31st open date……..

  22. Chris R says:

    Those SOL teams have built in games depending on what Truman and PW decide. So they most likely won’t be playing la salle or prep.

  23. Kevin X says:

    @ Frank & Thomas

    Here is a list that I came up with that is very unofficial as far as larger schools in Eastern PA who have (or may have) an open date(s) and possibly be options for LaSalle and SJP (guessing more so for LaSalle on a competitive basis), or for each other for that matter. I have no idea how accurate or up to date this list is…..but just for fun……

    Sept. 18th Manheim Township (D3) and Berks Catholic (D3)
    Sept. 25th Berks Catholic
    October 2nd Upper Dublin, William Tennent and Perk Valley
    October 9th Berk Catholic, Spring-Ford and Hatboro Horsham
    October 16th OJR and CR North
    October 23rd Boyertown, CR South and Scranton (D2)
    October 30th Quakertown, Wissahickon and Delaware Valley (D2)

  24. FrankG says:

    @Thomas J I suppose each could make do with as little as a four=game schedule and then a playoff game to see who represents District 12 ^A when and if state playoffs start. So many questions: will the PIAA accept the Prep or LaSalle as the D12 rep? If the only games either the Prep or LaSalle can get are away games against schools in North Jersey or New York or Ohio, will they be allowed to travel and, even if allowed, how will they do so? Might the idea of a four or five game series between the two schools, which seemed ludicrous when I first heard it, actually have some appeal? All in all, I’m still having a hard time seeing how any of it works.

  25. Thomas J Foley says:

    Prep and La Salle moving forward with football https://6abc.com/sports/4-philadelphia-area-catholic-schools-move-ahead-with-fall-sports/6407899/

    Ok, who in Pa will man up to play them? With the Catholic, Public and Inter Ac leagues not playing this fall, I cant see either team getting a 5 or 6 game schedule this year.

  26. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    I see you posted some D1 schedules. re. North Penn. They have no field.

    do you have any idea where their home games will be played?

  27. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Per the NPSD website, North Penn’s football schedule is as follows:

    10/2 @ Nesh
    10/9 Pennsbury
    10/16 CBW
    10/24 @ CBE
    10/30 CBS

    The 3 home games are listed to be played at the NPHS turf field. Maybe we’ll get lucky and have NPTV stream the home games. We’ll see if WBCB will stream the Neshaminy game.

    BTW, the P-V new turf field is looking good!!! Hope they get a chance to play on it this fall!!

  28. Mike A. says:

    Bill that would let school districts decide sports attendance limits moves closer to Wolf’s desk

  29. David Mika says:

    I will be there…I will tweet video highlights and tweets on the game..

  30. Robert Nolan says:

    Is anyone covering the Berwick/Southern scrimmage tomorrow?

  31. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    Like I said, I saw on MAXPREP that NP plays Pennsbury on Sept. 11 at Souderton ( NP has no field right now).

    But I do believe maxprep is wrong as often then they are right.

    @ Kevin

    Many of the PAC have cancelled in house school ( PV being one) ’till Oct. 8. So I’m sure no Fall sports ’till that time.

    Got a feeling you’re right regarding the SOL. I know NP has no in house ’till Oct 8th or Nov. 8th. Not sure which one.

    I’m assuming if your not physically at the school then you don’t play sports. Not sure if that’s true either.

    There’s a whole helluva lot I’m not sure of !

  32. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    The last I heard was that the Suburban One League pushed back all fall sports, with football “heat” acclimation on starting on Sept. 14th, first practices Sept. 21st, and first games Oct. 2nd. Of course this, as with everything in this world right now, is subject to change. I believe SOL’s Truman, Chelt. and P-W are current football no go’s.

    Don’t know about the PAC, as they probably pushed back things too, for whoever is left in that league still playing football. That’s about it for District One.

    Curious if LaSalle and St. Joe Prep are going forward. Maybe they can play each other in a best of 7 series, as guessing they would have a hard time finding suitable dance partners.

  33. David Mika says:

    Buddy, Did District 1 finally finalized their schedules? I am going to email Ad’s for them tonight…

  34. Buddy says:

    @ Mika

    Maxprep has some schedules up for D1. example: NP plays pennsbury on 9/11 at Souderton.

    Can you verify these and post?

  35. Kevin X says:

    @ Matt

    I have no idea. I have not heard or seen anything, not even any crazy rumors. My last post was just based on the assumption of originally planned playoffs.

    As of now, seems like the smaller classifications, A-4A, aren’t being hit by school defections, compared to 5A and 6A schools, so they may have an easier time proceeding than the larger schools. Maybe we can see a combined 5A and 6A playoff?? That could be fun and interesting. With SJP most likely out of the picture, be a wide open tournament.

  36. Mike A. says:

    Ches-Mont becomes latest league to opt-out of fall high school sports season

  37. New2PA says:

    I was told that the WPIAL changed around their schedule so that all of the conference games would be played and they would have enough time for WPIAL playoffs to match up with the state playoffs. State finals would be Friday and Saturday after thanksgiving. WPIAL is planning 7 game regular season, 3 weeks of playoffs from Class1-5 and then two rounds of state playoffs.

    I would guess if 75+% of the teams in the state are playing, the state playoffs will happen.

  38. Matt says:

    @Kevin….did PIAA say what they would do with state playoffs? I would think they would cancel those (avoids long travel for state playoffs and it being watered down) and just let districts do a playoff if they choose and then end it mid November. Especially when we don’t know how the virus will be in a few months. I think most team would be happy to get a chance to play 5-8 games this season even if it means no playoffs. A lot of teams won’t even get that chance. Especially seniors. In college, they will get another year of eligibility so if they choose they can come back for another year (obviously top college players will enter the NFL next spring). But HS seniors won’t get another year to play at this level.

  39. Kevin X says:

    Now that the Central League is the latest to pull the plug on football and fall sports in Southeastern PA, quick math has about a third of the schools in the area (Districts 1 and 12 and the Inter-AC/Independents) playing abbreviated football schedules, as of today, the original opening kickoff night. That is aprx. 40-45 schools out of 120 or so. Can’t wait to see what the 5A and 6A state playoffs are going to look like.

  40. Kevin X says:

    @ Frank G

    You can file this under love to see it happen, but not a snowball chance in you know where……

    Have LaSalle and Northeast be one year affiliate members of District 1 and the Suburban One League in 6A football. Love to see how they would compete for a full year (or whatever abbreviate season we are going to have this year) in the SOL and then be plugged into the 16 team 6A D1 playoffs. They can replace Truman and Norristown. Believe either team could win that hypothetical 6A D1 title. Thinking Northeast was primed for a monster year, but of course they would have had to go thru SJP again for the D12 championship and never would have seen their full potential going up against other competitive large public schools.

    SJP, whatever, let them play a national/regional schedule of whoever is available and willing.

  41. mark d says:

    so much for clarity as Valley View plays politics with the kids Scranton prep is still undecided and suspended sports so who know what thier going to do the lackawanna conference was suppose to meet today but with so much still up in the air who know they need to make up their minds and let these kids and parents know what they have to do it nuts

  42. Frank G says:

    @ Kevin X

    The task of finding opponents was complicated earlier today by the decision of the Inter-AC to “postpone” all fall sports. I don’t get the idea of planning to play football in the spring. Some schools have lots of kids who play football and a spring sport–lacrosse, baseball, track, etc. Maybe easier for Inter-AC in one sense: they don’t go into the state playoffs. I also have a hard time seeing football practice beginning in February with games in March and April. Pity the schools that play on grass.

    I wonder if the Prep and LaSalle could schedule one or two games each against Jersey schools. Ohio probably is out because of travel being more difficult in the COVID era. I wouldn’t bet on either school being able to put even a short season together.

  43. Kevin X says:

    So, looks like The Prep and LaSalle may break ranks and pursue independent fall sports schedules and competition, since they are private catholic schools and not under the rule of Philly archdiocese and their respected schools (Shanahan and PJPII done too for the fall). Any football takers?? Manheim Township?? Becahi?? (those two suggestions based on the open dates listed on this site). Others looking to challenge themselves??

  44. David Mika says:

    Kevin X….I know….I am not touching District 1 right now until they decide….We have to do almost 600 schools in three weeks…UGH….

  45. Kevin X says:

    Good luck Dave!!! Hope you are updating the schedules with a very light pencil!!!

  46. David Mika says:

    We started working on the schedules….Half of District 2,3 and 4 are done. A lot of schools haven’t finalized schedules.

  47. Geo says:

    What are teams doing with teams that have cancelled from playing?

    How are schedules being fixed?

  48. Kevin X says:

    You guys are spinning your wheels trying to figure out these schedules. Just saw that Valley View cancelled/suspended?? all fall sports a day after voting to soldier on. And now all of District 12 is done for the fall. as the PCL just cancelled fall sports (and moved them to the spring?? Maybe??).

  49. sausmann9 says:

    Hey all – check your inboxes/emails. I just found a few caught up in my filters and just replied to all of you w/ attached games list. enjoy and sorry about that.

  50. sausmann9 says:

    Yo Phillyboy – sorry bud, just saw your last sentence of your post. Yes I have that game and have a copy for you. That was one of the best games I ever attended. I live right next to Lehigh sports fields and thought it was a Lehigh home game w/ the traffic coming into the parking lots.

    I have the ESPN Special leading up to that stretch of games for the Bucks. Send me an email and I’ll send you the games list to check out.


    here’s just a sample of some of the games starting at the bottom of the list

    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)
    2002 Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    2002 Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)

    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state final)

  51. MARK D says:

    @Neutral to be honest nor sure.now Valley View has voted to play Carbondale and Abington heights have said no to the season as far as i know no other school has canceled I am not sure if they even have a Schedule at this point ? i heard talk of Valley view replacing Abington with Delaware valley but to be honest i dont know for sure i do know that Riverside was looking to schedule more games..i think we will see some clarity by the end of the week

  52. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I might be wrong, but I thought the plan was for the LIAA to keep the new 5 game schedule they rolled out and if any of the schools didn’t have sports (i.e. AH), then those scheduled games would just be “no contests”.

    I think that means that those 5 teams who were scheduled to play Abington Heights now only get to play 4 games:

    Abington Heights revised 2020 schedule:

    October 2 October 9 October 16 October 23 October 30
    at WAL at NP vs. SP* vs. SCR* at DV

  53. David Mika says:

    Thank you Indian 87! We are going to start updating schedules this weekend after the PIAA meeting.

  54. Indian 87 says:

    Heartland Conference …. https://www.dailyitem.com/sports/heartland-conference-votes-to-play-fall-sports/article_ea67ea04-514b-532a-a7cf-7b0c2cc0e9ed.html

  55. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X Yeah the Public League already cancelled sports. If the PIAA moves forward you will just have the PCL and Charter schools playing in the area.

  56. mark d says:

    Abington heights in D2 lackawanna conference has announced no contact sports for the fall semester. So if the conference decide to play it be doing the Schedule all over again !!!!

  57. Kevin X says:

    I tried posting something about a week and a half ago after the Gov statement and PIAA meeting and their response (and two week delay). It never hit the forum, thinking maybe something more an issue on my end. Water under the bridge at this point, now we get to look forward to Friday, where (maybe) we’ll get some clarity and a definitive course of action going forward. I’m actually leaving the door open a very small crack thinking (hoping??) maybe they’ll be some sort of abbreviated patchwork season for all sports. Wouldn’t be surprised if the PIAA cancels all fall state championships, but let the districts and leagues plow forward the best they see fit at the local level.

    @ Joneses, didn’t he PPL cancel all sports until Jan 1st, taking the Gov’s “recommendation??” Not surprising if they did.

  58. The Joneses says:

    Well the PCL voted Friday to move forward with the season. Everything hinges on the PIAA Friday.

  59. Foleman says:

    Kevin, With leagues/teams changing their status from playing to not playing every week, who knows what the season will look like or will there even be a season. Scheduling right now is a nightmare for just about everyone who is still playing. Exeter just shut down practice for a second time as another bout of Corona hit their players, The Exeter AD is saying he just doesn’t see how a season can be played.

  60. Matt says:

    @Kevin, I think everyone is just wrapping their heads around the fact that there mostly likely won’t be a football season this year. State and leagues are pushing back start dates. I just don’t think it’s going to happen. We would be ten days from opening night. And nothing is known yet.

  61. Kevin X says:

    Oddly quiet around here. Everyone on vaca?? Site down??

  62. JerrySpringer says:

    If only people cared about social distancing when it comes to “protests” AKA riots.

    Kiss the season goodbye. Lackawanna conference voted to start the season in October except Riverside is the only hold out. Wyoming valley conference wants to proceed as normal but with a conference only schedule.

  63. Matt says:

    @Foleman….I can almost guarantee that there won’t be PIAA playoffs this fall. Most leagues are rooting for a short 5-8 game season. Then it will be over before winter starts. The travel required for state playoffs can take teams 3 hours away. In a pandemic, and those kids needing space and more buses won’t work. That why even NCAA is doing conference only….less travel. I love watching state playoffs but reality is this year it won’t happen. Atleast PA will have some sort of season it looks like. VA and Maryland canceled all fall sports and even into winter as they expect it to get worse during the winter. I would love to fast forward to this time next year where I think it will be almost back to normal….I hope.

  64. Foleman says:

    Football heat acclimation starting on August 31, Games starting on Sept 18-19 PAC meeting today to finalize plans, probably will be on the same schedule. This sucks! It’s looking more and more like the kids will play a 8 game schedule with no playoffs. If the PIAA does opt for playoffs, the point system will be an absolute mess, some deserving teams will miss out and some teams that have no business being in the playoffs could be in.

  65. Kevin X says:

    Thank you Santa for giving me a much needed good laugh on a dreary overcast Thursday morning……..

  66. Buddy says:

    @ santa:


    @ kevin:

    Crawford stadium is currently a big hole in the ground. I believe you are referring to their practice field, which is turf.

    Yeah, heard a rumor that they might play their home games there if no fans allowed. Not sure if it has lights or not.

    Very little or no stands , believe they play soccer there. I think they should let parents at the games ( with masks).

    Of course each player might suddenly have 7 sets of parents, what are they going to do………..card you?

  67. Santa says:

    Keven x.
    FYI the gatherings can be as many as you want. 250 is a fake number just like the news. Upwards of a million can gather and nobody can stop anyone. Friday nights like I said are peaceful protests without masks. So kevin x please stop with your wfi comments cause what the governor says he can not control. Pack the stadiums everyone else That’s not in favor then fly to California where you belong

  68. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    A bizarre, albeit stretched silver lining in all of this for North Penn, is if there are no football games this season, there would be no “away home” games due to the re-contruction of Crawford Stadium. Their timing would end up be impeccable. Or if there are football games, but with no fans, I’m not seeing why they couldn’t play their home games at their turf stadium, which should make it possible for NPTV to broadcast/stream those home games.

  69. Kevin X says:

    FYI guys….

    Per the PA State and Wolf and Levine guidelines and restrictions, as of July 16th:

    “Other Events and Gatherings

    Events and gatherings must adhere to these gathering limitations:

    Indoor events and gatherings of more than 25 persons are prohibited.
    Outdoor events and gatherings of more than 250 persons are prohibited.
    The maximum occupancy limit includes staff.”

  70. Route54 says:

    Buddy, no fans allowed at this time.  Just about a month or two ago the original plan was to have 50% capacity for fans. That plan was tossed out as most of Pennsylvania went backwards with the virus.  We are back to where we were in April.  50% capacity of fans is a pipedream anyway.  Not sure why they implemented that . Lucky to see 500 fans last year, 2019. People rather sit at home and sweat on the couch rather than getting  outside for fresh air. As we know,  HS football is slowly diminishing. 

  71. Route54 says:

    Not looking good. I will be surprised if they finish out the month of September.  Schools are already opting out. This virus only adds to the current problems that already exist.  Lack of interest,  low rosters, low attendance of fans, concussions,  school mergers, school closures. Feeder schools being shut down.  Youth football organizations being shut down. It just keeps piling up.  This virus is going to be disastrous after it’s all said and done.  It’s only going to push interest farther away. Heard a rumor that some of the local schools in my area are dealing with roster problems because they are so low. I hope this trend passes through eventually. 

  72. Buddy says:

    Actually, the PIAA is still going ahead with Fall sports as of this writing. Will fans be allowed?

  73. Santa says:

    Frank g

    The numbers are false mine are correct. By the way chicken wings are a meal. In fact a a dead possum is a meal if I choose it to be. Last time I checked this is a free country. Nobody is telling me I need fries with my wings to be considered a meal to have a drink. Nobody is telling me I can’t watch high school football either. The corruption must stop and who’s willing to be a trend setter cause I am.

  74. Buddy says:

    North Penn has cancelled in house school ’til Nov. ( going virtual). I’m sure that includes Fall sports.

  75. Kevin X says:

    You guys are cracking me up with all of this talk about protests, no fans, medical stats, etc. Do you guys just not see the writing on the wall that is two inches from your collective faces??

    There will be little to no high school games this fall in PA. I hate being Debbie Downer, but when you’re Mr. Reality, it’s hard to separate the two.

    D2 Abington Heights just suspended all athletic activities. Just a matter of time before others continue to join this list.

  76. FrankG says:

    @Santa What’s the source of your 99.7%survival rate? Did they also provide rate of hospitalization, ICU admission, and duration of ICU stays? I too hope there is a season.

  77. SCA69 says:

    Santa…Good, idea…have the respective teams’ Community Athletic Supporters request permission from the local authorities to have a peaceful protest. When the two teams meet…before the game the the respective two groups (assuming each school has a representative group) protesting the ruling not to allow fans by the PIAA, march from the parking lots and onto the field (they got permission to do so). Before the game starts…school officials ask the respective groups please disperse as the players are about to start the game. The two groups then go to their respective teams sides.

    For example: Southern vs Berwick, Southern Boosters and Berwick Boosters separately request from the Berwick City Govt. department responsible for giving permits to protest. Each Booster Club gets permission to start in the parking lot and proceed to the stadium where they walk on the field and express their displeasure at the PIAA. School officials then ask the respective Booster Clubs to exit the field (not the stadium) as the teams are about to take the field. The Booster clubs do so going to their respective team’s side of the field, where they continue their protests during the game. At the end of the game they walk together to the parking lot and then disperse.

    Do you really think the local city/municipal governments will deny them permission to have a peaceful protest? Hey, they’ll probably join in! It’s all legal…I think!

  78. Mark d says:

    @ Neutral As far as i been told Valley View is planing to play even if they are not in School full time summer conditioning workout have continued and they are planing for the season . as of now the games will be played with no fans

  79. Kevin X says:

    I just looked at the Haverford Fords 2020 team preview.

    OK guys, is their kicker’s name for real??

  80. Santa says:


    I totally agree with you on this. If thousands can riot and and do it without masks then fans can go to football games. I have an idea for every high school football program in pa and in America. Bring the the people in by the thousands on Friday nights and call it a peaceful protest. Nothing can be done to stop you. If the fear of a large crowd makes you wear a mask then wear one or simply don’t come. You can stay at home and listen to it on the radio that’s if they are broadcasting it. If they are not then turn on the news and listen to the garbage we are all being told. It’s time to make a stand and do what’s right for all the kids who are being cheated. 99.7 percent survival rate and this is the situation we are in?It’s completely ridiculous! Bradford county has 2 Covid deaths both elderly since March. Bradford county also has 2 deaths do to lightning strikes since March. I personally would go to a concert with 200 positive Covid cases before I stood outside in a thunderstorm. So let’s wake up and stop being sheep. I’m glad to see the PIAA is honestly doing the best they can do considering the situation. Unlike several universities and colleges and conferences they are standing up to this ridiculousness and going to at least try to have a season. As far as the masks go throw them away. If you can smell a fart through someone’s underwear and pants with a mask on then what good is a mask. So for all you football fans out there Friday nights are nights for peaceful protesters. Pack the stadiums. Bring your peaceful protesting signs. Nobody can stop you! The difference between the Friday night protests and the ones we see every day on the news is exactly that. Peaceful. Nobody will get hurt. No fires will be started. No businesses destroyed. No violence at all. Guess what they do it all without a mask And no social distancing and our governors don’t stop them. Do what’s right cause high school football isn’t the same without fans and high school football is America. God bless trump 2020 2024 2028 2032 2036 2040.

  81. mgguy says:

    So the big bugaboo I see is if ONE member of the team tests positive, the team shuts down. Obviously the bigger programs see a bigger chance of being hit. A team like Wilson WL with 80 kids versus a team like Fleetwood with 40 kids sees a bigger chance of being shut down. What happens with the big schools like North Penn, and suburban one? This doesn’t look good…..

  82. Kevin X says:

    Norristown SD first domino to fall in this pipe dream of PA high school fall sports…….


  83. SCA69 says:

    Phillyboy, I share your frustration…experts agree (most of the time they don’t) being outside is one of the safest places to be and healthiest…of course, a five year old could tell you that! But, I agree decisions aren’t being made on reality…unless it is reality TV!

    But, on what information is everyone basing their decisions? We should know. With all the public activity that has occurred over the past two months we would have expected to see dramatic increases in every statistic for the virus…but we haven’t. In fact, in many areas there continues to be a decline (that started back in mid-April).

    Does anyone remember the pandemics of 1957-1958 and 1968-1969? Estimated deaths were 115,000 and 100,000 respectively. (Course, you know what they say about the sixties, “If you remember the sixties, you weren’t there!) Remember all those masks at Woodstock? Looking back on them we can say…they weren’t as bad as COVID-19…but at the time who knew how serious…but not a peep! What happened then is the same as what will happen now…it will run its course.

    My point, we should demand on what basis are decisions being made? If thousands can walk the streets with masks, we can sit in stands with masks. Evidence has shown that large public gatherings with masks have not made hospitalizations nor death rates increase.

    Hey, wasn’t Southern a recent “National Champion” for small schools…two years running? Most would agree, last year’s team was not mythical!

  84. Neutral Observer says:

    In District 2, Valley View School District is only doing virtual learning through at least September 28 (per The Scranton Times). The blurb didn’t mention sports, but I assume that the VVSD can’t allow sports if in-person classes are not allowed.

    Assuming that the football season actually happens, I’m guessing that means that Valley View has to forfeit its first five games??? And then try to get organized in time to play on 10/2??? That’s brutal.

    I know Scranton and West Scranton had to forfeit games a few years ago when the teachers union went on strike.


    8/28 Dallas (AAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/04 @ Delaware Valley (AAAAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/12 @ Abington Heights (AAAAA) 1:00 pm
    9/18 Scranton (AAAAAA) 7:00 pm
    9/25 @ West Scranton* (AAAA) 7:00 pm
    10/2 @Crestwood (AAAA) 7:00pm

  85. Matt says:

    @Jac Mac….agree football won’t work in spring. The Virginia HS association just announced no fall sports and no sports until atleast Dec with a plan to play spring football end of Feb until May. I think it either in the fall or not at all for PA. Too many multi sport athletes especially at smaller schools. So athletes at three sports at the smaller schools….some even at bigger schools.

  86. Jac Mac says:

    HS football in the spring doesn’t work… in fact it hurts football. You are going to make kids choose between Football and either Baseball, LAX, or Track. It will essentially lose programs there spring sport kids forever. In a normal 10 game HS football season a 1 way starter takes about 500-600 game reps, a 2 way starter is close to 1200 reps. We are saying it’s not okay to play football now because of a virus(I am not saying everything is fine) but it is okay for a 16 year old Junior Offensive and Defensive Lineman to possibly have 2400 competitive game reps in a 6 month period… not to mention how many kids are committed to scholarships and will have to choose not to play. Spring is the worst idea for HS football.

  87. sausmann9 says:

    thanks all for the answers on the TX recruits. Mack was the kid I was thinking. I was also trying to find info on a PA recruit that ended up at SMU in the past. I think he went down there as a linebacker. tx.

    Andre White was the other recent TX commit I was looking for and thought he ended up at Baylor as well. The Aggies it was.

  88. phillyboy says:

    In case anybody was wondering what’s phillyboy’s take on the goings-on in recent months and the prospects for PA high school football this year, I gotchew. Admittedly, I’ve been laying low — can’t leave you guys hanging any longer. Plus I appreciate you guys (you too Mika) — Kmac, the godfather of easternpafootball.com, the feisty and no-nonsense Buddy, the wise and battle tested old heads Mcd65 and FrankG, the professional D3 Mike, and last but not least the MVP Kevin X, plus a lot of role players that chime in now and then. As far as football in 2020 goes, got to see it to believe it. Too bad for Prep, this year would have been a monster ‘peak year’ — McCord and Harrison (the OSU), Trotter (Clemson), Hagins and Malik (the QB who replaced McCord last year) make for a tremendous core, are you kidding me?! Although I’m total pro public, have to say, this year might have been PA’s first mythical national champion (or #1 ranked team) since Berwick in ’95. In regards to the lockdowns, it’s an absolute and utter fraud, the ultimate dog and pony show which has created a sort of self-reinforcing cycle. Remember back in early March there were headlines such as ‘For Now the NBA and NHL Will Continue Seasons’. That was the first thing that gave me pause — whoa, this is wacky. Yes, apparently the virus itself exists, but what’s happening is nowhere near congruent with reality. It’s not about credentials or expertise, it’s about common sense. If it were anywhere close to being like the Bubonic plague of the mid-1300’s CE or the Spanish flu of 1918, precautions would be understandable and necessary, absolutely. But this is nowhere close to being close to that. In fact, hypothetically speaking, if all the restrictions and lockdowns were completely rescinded today, things would be fine, more or less the same as any year. Anyway, just some thoughts. Hey Sausmann, ’99 CB West – Beca would be awesome, never saw that game.

  89. Foleman says:

    Here in Berks County, 3 teams have already suspended preseason workouts due to individuals contracting Corona-Schuykill Valley, Exeter and now Wyomissing. I know some parents are not letting their players attend preseason workouts in fear of their kid getting the virus, and this is with practice protocols in place. Now I heard this morning that several players on the Florida Marlins have Corona! And this in BASEBALL! I’m not getting the warm and fuzzies about football at any level this fall. Anyone hear about other teams in the State suspending workouts due to Corona? Maybe it would be a good idea to have HS football played in the Spring.

  90. Kevin X says:

    You can add Yusuf Terry from Imhotep, currently at Baylor. A Matt Rhule recruit. Actually looking at the Baylor rooster to confirm Terry was still there (thought he might of transferred when Rhule left) saw that there are a handful of PA kids on the current Baylor roster.

  91. mcd 65 says:

    Andre White Texas A@M /Harrisburg HS

  92. Mike A says:

    @sausmann9 Andre White, Harrisburg linebacker, is currently a sophomore at Texas A&M.

  93. Kevin X says:

    @ sausmann9

    Are you thinking of Mack Leftwich from North Allegheny?? They only reason I remember him (and apologies to my Coatesville friends out there for digging this up) is that he was the QB of that 2012 NA team that thumped Coatesville in the 4A state championship game. Yikes, can’t believe start game was 8 years ago already.

    As far as your lost 2020 season question, we won’t have to witness the effects of the PIAA’s debacle of their implemented version of a competition formula and the mandatory requirement of certain teams “playing up” (and other not). It may also throw a wrench into their 2-year cycle re-classification adjustment plans. So maybe they’ll have some time to take a realistic look at this and get it right, or at least make some common sense adjustment.

    Bey hey, at least it worked out better than the basketball competition formula. Wow, what a freaking debacle and disgrace this is. I can’t believe they are going forward with that, assuming once again that there is a hoops season.

  94. New2PA says:

    sausmann9: The NA kid was Mack Leftwich and he was recruited to UTEP because the father of his team mate (Sean Kugler) got the head coaching job there. I don’t recall if he had any other offers.

  95. FrankG says:

    @sausmann9 I agree that all the complaining about the Prep’s having players from Jersey gets really tiresome.

    I’m still hoping for a season of some kind. though 50-50 may be optimistic.Hard to find any real upsides. It may further shrink the pool of kids who have played before they start HS or who want to play football in HS.. But it may also make people appreciate the game and all it does for kids, families, and communities when it does come back.

    One of my biggest worries is what this will do to smaller colleges with small endowments. Many (some with football programs) were in trouble before COVID.

  96. SCA69 says:

    To the Joneses…thanks.

    To Mike A…The Holiday Inn Express “Trumps” a GP and a virologist combined!!!!!

    OK, I’m a bit nervous about the Berwick Southern Game. I know nothing of Berwick this year and Southern really has to fill a lot of big holes. Though, most of the reserves probably got as much action as first team players from other schools. So, can anyone fill me in.

    And I am chomping at the bit to say something regards current events…but I made a promise.

  97. sausmann9 says:

    can anyone else find any positives to not having the 2020 season???

    I have one: we won’t have to hear about all the Jersey kids on st joes prep that win a PA state title.

  98. sausmann9 says:

    quick question on PA recruits;

    how many PA kids have gone to Texas colleges to play football over the last 30 years??? I know 30 years is a HUGE span but I can only recount ONE player ever being recruited by and going to a TX college. That kid was the quarterback for North Allegheny about 2012 season or so.

    Does anyone remember any other players going to the state of TX to play football??? How about a linebacker going to SMU??? tx.

  99. sausmann9 says:

    @ Mike A – thanks, two really good games. I was at the 92′ game but the link was a cool reminder how good CV has been over the years.

    @ everyone on here – when they finally cancel the entire season for 2020, I will try to get a few really good PA games from the past on-line for a weekend of football each weekend this fall. I will post about 10 options for the upcoming weekend and let you all pick four games for the weekend. (one friday, two saturday, one sunday). here is a prelim list set up for September. I had originally posted this for August but I actually thought we were starting the season in some way. Tell me what to change, what to omit, what to add. I will try to copy these games to Youtube for that weekend. Its up to you to supply your friends, food, drink, and plenty of imagination that these games are all current, lol.

    Week 1 in Sept we shall see:
    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state title)
    1993 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Berwick (AAA state title)

    Week 2 in September we shall see:
    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 3 in September we shall see:
    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 4 in September we shall see:
    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)

    Week 5 in September we shall see:
    2002Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    2002 Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)
    2002 Big 33 game PA v Ohio all-star game (played 6/03)

  100. FrankG says:

    I will keep this relatively short.

    Perhaps nothing has been more damaging in the response to COVID-19 than the notion that it is similar, especially in its effects, to the seasonal flu. In over 40 years of practice (I’m semi-retired now) I’ve never had an adult patient under 60 die of the flu and I can count on my fingers the number who’ve had to be hospitalized. It’s true that death rates for COVID patients are declining for various reasons (e.g. the proportion of diagnosed people who are younger is increasing, we are somewhat better at treating it, etc.), but look at the number of deaths so far despite the kind of mitigation efforts we’ve never made in relation to the flu. And anyone who thinks the CDC has been over-counting COVID deaths must assume the NHS in Britain, Health Canada, the HSE in Ireland, etc. have been doing the same since they all show death rates for COVID (including among adults under 60) much higher than death rates for flu. (Many countries, including Canada, have done a much better job of reducing the incidence and the death rates.) And no one should think people who spend even three days let alone three weeks on a ventilator walk away feeling close to normal.it is true that COVID appears to be no more lethal and maybe even less lethal among YOUNG children, but it is certainly more lethal and, it appears, quite easily transmissible among young adults. And guess where that leaves older adolescents, i.e. kids who play high school football?

    I think opening schools should be a priority–much more than opening bars, indoor restaurants, etc. And no one on here doubts the value and benefits–including the health benefits–of extra-curricular activities, including team sports. I think in many areas (where the infection rate is not high) schools can be opened and sports played if school officials, coaches, families, and players do what they need to do. But approaching it all thinking that COVID is really just like the flu will likely lead to disaster.

  101. Kevin X says:

    Per Twitter, so take it for what it’s worth….

    “Per a source with knowledge of the situation, there will be no student travel for @AOPathletics outside the surrounding area – or overnight travel – for games, tournaments, or other activities with the exception of the PIAA state tournaments during the 2020-21 school year”

    “AOPathletics” consists of schools/teams from the Philadelphia Catholic League of District 12, and Bishop Shanahan and PJPII out of District 1.

  102. The Joneses says:

    @SCA69 Thank you. Your insight is appreciated.

  103. Mike A says:

    The CDC web site statistics show very few deaths from COVID-19 for younger folks. In fact, it shows MORE deaths in the 0-14 age group from the seasonal flu this year. 36 deaths out 61 million people for COVID-19 while the flu had 104 deaths. The 15-24 age group is somewhat higher with 190 deaths out of 43 million people, 51 deaths from the flu.

    Totals 0-24 104 million population
    Flu deaths 155
    COVID-19 deaths 226


    These are just stats and I’m not inferring anything about the transmission rate to others or any other factors.

    The CDC did come out with an estimated infection fatality rates back on May 22. These numbers are for planning purposes and subject to change but the rate is significantly lower than many of the number being tossed around.

    The new estimates of infection fatality rates (IFR) released by the CDC are as follows for different age groups:

    0-49 years old: 0.05%
    50-64 years old: 0.2%
    65+ years old: 1.3%
    Overall ages: 0.4%

    When considering the asymptomatic rate the overall total drops to 0.26%


    I too agree with Buddy. “I think if a couple of players/coaches get sick, it will end.”
    On another note, I don’t think college football makes it either.


    ONE FINAL NOTE: I am not a GP or virologist by I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so that should count for something, right?
    On a more serious note my brother-in law has a doctorate in microbiology and is a bacterial research specialist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Ft. Detrick, MD.
    On the other hand since we seem to be divulging some personal information, among other vocations (finance and IT) throughout my career, I am a former meteorologist/atmospheric scientist, a former NOAA-National Weather Service employee, and a former employee of the DOD’s U.S. Army Atmospheric Sciences Laboratory, that specialized in weather forecasting, paleoclimates and climate data analysis, meteorological research, and RDT&E meteorological support, so if that’s your interest you can scan my website at https://www.climate.metman1.com/ for my blog and paper on climate change and other meteorological information.

    Here’s to hoping for some HS Football this year!

  104. New2PA says:

    @FrankG I am thinking along the same lines as you. Out here, they seem to have things back under control after a brief spike.

  105. SCA69 says:

    I hope I am allowed to post this: I will do not more on COVID-19, I do not wish to get in a debate, but it is important to give people hope and to ensure that those making decisions for others become fully informed. I have responded in part to one other post.

    I agree we should talk football. My point in presenting what I did is to point out there are other expert opinions that are not getting attention…when making decisions to open, close, play sports, go to church etc. they should be informed. Also, the truth is we are not getting the whole picture…we are getting information that fits a particular ideology (whichever it might be)…so it is left to us to research and find the information.


    Frank G…well if we have to get into throwing around credentials: I’ve got an under graduate degree in biology, and my masters thesis was the attachment of different viruses to mouse cells to determine methods of attachment. I worked in virology research at the Frederick Cancer Research Facility in Frederick MD. I then went into Healthcare Administration where I worked at a hospital in a city that had the second highest recorded number of cases of HIV/AIDS in the state…before anyone knew what it was. (Early 80’s) I sat on a committee (because of being in administration and because of my virology background) that developed a set of universal precautions before universal precautions became the norm. Our team presented our recommendations to a meeting of the NIH.

    I am not your errand boy, since you are a GP you should know exactly where to get your information. What I learned long ago is to truly understand an issue…try to prove what you believe true to be false. Research as much as possible that covers the issue, the forces, the context, causes…and expert opinions that do not agree. Please note: I have not resorted to any name calling, or making assumptions about your character or knowledge. I have remained focused on the issue without bringing personality into it.

    I made an honest statement in reporting my statistics that they are approximations and therefore was unable to give a statistical confidence level (my minor in undergrad. school) any input is always welcome. But, it is not necessarily so that input that is not consistent with what is reported, makes what is reported null. One must find the reasons. My reason for reporting as such is to make people aware there are real reasons for over stating the number of deaths. Reasons that are artificial and reasons as a result of inappropriate actions by leaders.


    I will not be posting again on COVID-19, Coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2 here on this site. I believe it is where we should be discussing football and other sports. My purpose is not to get into a debate…enough of that out there. My purpose is to be open to other information that is out there in order to make an informed decision. Decisions that can have an impact on many…some of you may very well be in that position.

    One final note: While the number of COVID-19 cases continue to increase…the Case Fatality Rate of COVID-19 has been decreasing since April…anyone tell you that? What does that mean…more people infected, but fewer are dying…lower Case Fatality Rates that are getting close to some bad flu seasons…check it out. I suspect we will have as many if not more people infected with COVID-19 as with a bad flu…maybe 80,000,000 million or maybe more…many who do not show symptoms. But, the Case Fatality Rate will fall. One of the reasons is attenuation. The more a virus infects people and is transmitted from one to another the most often case is an RNA virus, that the SARS-CoV-2 is, will mutate and become less “virulent”, meaning you might get infected, develop antibodies, but never know it. This is one of the reasons flu seasons die out. It will happen with COVID-19. This is how Albert Sabin developed his Polio Virus…by attenuation. (Jonas Salk’s was by heat) Sabin infected cells, then took that virus and infected new cells, then took that virus and infected new cells. He did this until the virus could still be identified by antibodies (the outer protein/lipid coat) but the virus was too weak to replicate to cause infection. This is a simple explanation, but it is given to let you know the same happens with most viruses. If in the 50’s you got a shot…that was Salk’s, if you took a sugar cube…that was Sabin’s.

  106. Matt says:

    Buddy, yep….this virus doesn’t care if you’re old, young, healthy, unhealthy. It does kill more older people but there’s been a decent amount of younger people (under 40) and even some kids have severe complications or even have died. Down here in Northern VA, there has been five young people, aged 28,30,33,38, 40 die from this virus who were healthy adults. No major health problems. I know young people die from flu but five healthy under 40 people in a metro area don’t die from the flu every year. This isn’t political, I’m a non-affiliated voter, but people need to take precautions and wear masks. You don’t need to hide inside but use common sense. Don’t pack bars, don’t refuse to wear a mask, and don’t say it’s a hoax. The virus has killed about 145,000 people in four months. The Avg flu season kills 35,000 Americans and a bad one kills 50,0000. This is about 3 times worse than flu without a vaccine. Use common sense! Wear masks! That helps the spread and will get school and sports and football back sooner than later.

  107. Buddy says:

    Sweden went for “herd immunity”. Looked like they had the answer for awhile, then bam! They spiked dramatically. Their approach seemed to backfire.

    Also, they did close schools. Either 16 and under didn’t go or it was 16 and over didn’t go to school. Forget which one.

    i think they will open our schools cause Trump won’t leave it alone. After just a couple of kids get sick, they will close again.

    Let’s talk football. I believe the PIAA is allowing football to go on as of now. Don’t know how long it will last.

    I think if a couple of players/coaches get sick, it will end. I’ve never seen anything remotely like this.

  108. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Kind of reading my mind. Was wondering what Prep’s schedule currently was looking like. Figure all non PCL games would be cancelled, as they were all out of state games. So, what do they have still (as of now) on the schedule, 4 October PCL games and possibly DC’s St. John’s?? Evenings are usually pretty nice in late August in the northern Pocono’s, go visit DelVal.

  109. FrankG says:

    @ Foleman There may be a lot of fake news circulating, but I don’t think it’s actually all that hard to separate information supported by good evidence and information that isn’t. I agree it’s too bad the situation in the U.S, has become so politicized. There is some politics elsewhere related to responses to the virus, but nothing compared to what’s happening in the U.S. That’s a shame–and a danger.

    Back to schools and football. What we need to do is to understand relative risks. If schools re-open we are going to hear about teachers and children getting the virus and probably about a teacher here or there dying. That of course will be awful for those who die and their loved ones, but we do things all the time that carry a risk of illness or death. You put yourself at risk every time you drive a car. Even good drivers are at risk because of bad drivers. People who have a knee or hip replaced risk serious infection, even death. Each dose of radiation increases your chances of cancer. The issue, of course, is how great the risk is and what the relationship is between the risk and the benefit. In areas where the virus is far from well-controlled, I think schools should not open. Obviously, no sports either. And even in places where the virus is fairly well controlled–but still present in the community–I would advise a 60-year old teacher with type-2 diabetes not to be in classroom for 6 hours with a bunch of teenagers. Maybe he or she can help with online learning. As for sports, I think spectators sitting close together for 2-3 hours or going out to a bar with a few friends for a couple of cold ones after the game is much more worrisome than a group of 14-17 year olds moving around, even if sometimes at close quarters, for a 48-minute game. So I would not allow groups (of students or parents) to sit close together and I would test players at least a couple of times a week, but I wouldn’t close schools or shut down athletic programs if there is only a truly low-level of virus in the community. If case-counts are rising, I would shut bars and restaurants before I’d shut schools.

  110. Foleman says:

    With so much fake news out there it’s tough to know what is fact and what is fiction regarding the Corona virus. Corona is definitely being politicized. I recently read a scathing article on how Sweden attacked the Corona virus, then I read where most of the deaths were in the 70-80-90 age range, 50% of the deaths lived in Nursing homes. Sweden kept almost everything open including the schools and their GDP only shrunk 8%, where many other countries that had lockdowns had their GDP decrease at 3X that level plus you don’t hear about the negative residual affects the lockdown caused- mental issues which include suicide, depression and anxiety, divorce, alcoholism etc. Now Sweden is showing very few new cases per day. One thing is for certain, the world was not equipped to handle this virus which is here to stay, and the elderly account for most of the deaths. I am a caregiver for my 81 year old mother who just came off of 2 years of chemo, I take every precaution with her, sending the elderly off to a nursing home or having them around crowds is basically playing Russian roulette with their lives.

  111. FrankG says:

    @Kevin X The Prep’s game in Texas was cancelled–by the people in Texas–over a month ago. They also won’t be going to North Jersey to play Bosco in September since Jersey teams can’t start playing games till early October. As far as I know, the game against St. John’s DC is still on for, I think, the second week of September.

  112. FrankG says:

    @ SCA69 I’m a GP and am astonished by your unsupported claims, Has Dr. Birx ever said anything along the lines of COVID-19 being no worse than a serious flu? If so, please provide a citation. And what is the source of your statement that many single cases are reported multiple times? Your stats also omit the possibility that some deaths caused by COVID-19 have not been reported as such, whereas, especially in March and April, there were certainly many such deaths. And nowhere in your calculations is there any acknowledgement that many people who have had the virus and survived continue to have problems, often serious ones for long after–how long, of course, we don’t know since the virus is still quite new. But if you think that most people who have been on ventilators for a week or more have no ongoing respiratory problems or that we’re inventing the kidney, cardiovascular, and neurological problems we’re seeing in people who had COVID, you must be enveloped in denial and disinformation.

    As for the swamp, what accounts for the fact that health officials in Canada, the U.K. Australia, NZ, Italy, France, Germany, the Netherlands, South Africa, Japan, Korea, etc. have all recognized that COVID-19 is far far worse than a serious flu? You must believe in a vast, deep conspiracy well beyond anything the world has known. I suppose that can be comforting, for a while.

    I’m hoping we can focus on the best ways to open schools and to make it possible for students to play sports and engage in other extracurricular activities.

  113. David Mika says:

    Kevin X….The Pine-Richland game didn’t work out.

  114. Kevin X says:

    I see above that Delaware Valley (D2) is once again looking for a Week 0 game. I know their trip to FLA was cancelled, but thought they rescheduled against P-R out in Pittsburgh. That now cancelled as well??

    I’ll play match-maker, maybe third time is the charm. Guessing St. Joe Prep’s Week 0 game down in the heart of Texas is in jeopardy, if not already cancelled, so maybe a DelVal/SJP Week 0 game up in NEPA could be worked out. A much shorter and cheaper trip for The Prep, plus probably a whole lot cooler than Texas in late August.

  115. SCA69 says:

    I have made several posts on my Facebook site: no big deal, just wanted you to know where this is coming from. This is the second part of a two part post I made. Give it some thought. Understand also, I have a background in health care and virology. Not an expert, but I know enough to understand what is being said and the scientific data that is submitted.

    This is a continuation of my previous post, “What if COVID-19 turns out to be no worse than a serious flu.” Dr. Deborah Birx, White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator, says there is nothing from the CDC she can believe. She goes on to say the CDC figures are inflated by as much as 25%. One of the reasons she gives is that if someone dies, even though they might have died from something other than COVID-19 and they tested positive for COVID-19, but COVID-19 wasn’t even a contributing factor, the CDC wants those deaths reported as COVID-19 deaths!

    NOW, add in the fact that some cases are getting over reported, as I mentioned before…a hospital patient with COVID-19 is tested several times during his/her stay…each of those tests in more than some cases has been reported as new cases! So patient X is admitted with COVID-19 and she is reported as a new case. Okay so far. But now if she is tested, say five times during her stay to determine the progress of the disease, those five tests are reported as five new cases!

    NOW, let’s add in the thousands of deaths State Governors caused by forcing Nursing Homes to admit residents infected with COVID-19 (nearly 60,000 deaths in nursing homes, personal care homes, and staff).

    142,000 COVID-19 reported deaths.

    25% over stated CDC statistics:————-35,000
    and lets suppose 25% of Nursing
    home, personal care home, and
    staff deaths could have been prevented.—15,000

    (NOTE: the above two calculations are approximations. I do not have a statistical confidence level. The truth is, however, deaths are being overreported and many nursing home deaths and their staff did not have to occur.)

    And remember in all those 142,000 COVID-19 deaths only 31 children under the age of 14 have died.

    That means to total number of deaths, adjusted for faulty reporting and causing more deaths than what would have
    occurred equals…….92,000 deaths and only 31 children under the age of 14.

    If we consider the Coronavirus to have infected as many people as a bad flu season…approximately 80,000,000…that means the fatality rate is: .115% an average flu/influenza season is .1% !

    In a normal flu season, those over 60 account for nearly 80% of the deaths. The number of deaths over 60 attributed to Coronavirus is 83% to 85%. Not statistically significant…not a significant difference at all. It amounts to about 7,000 elderly if we use 142,000 deaths as the common factor.

    Folks, this thing has been overblown from the start. And all experts, except for Birx and a few others, have been way off the mark.

    Try to research some statistics and you get all kinds of numbers…it is a mess.

    Me thinks something is amiss!!!!!!!!!!

    Somethings of which one should be aware: All government agencies depend on taxpayer funding, which is allocated by Congress. Thus, these agencies must justify their existence and need for more money. You don’t suppose they might inflate figures to justify their existence do you? NO, long time bureaucrats are trusted public servants…they wouldn’t think of such a dastardly thing….would they? The swamp just keep getting deeper and deeper!!!!!!

  116. Matt says:

    My sister-in-law is a teacher in northern VA and they are going two days in person and two days virtual. Half kids go two days the other half go other two days and one day planning for first half of school year. They are ready to go fully virtual during winter if it spikes during flu season. They want to teach but also want to have safety measures in place. The districts down there are huge (whole counties are districts). They are trying to get kids back but are taking all safety measures doing so. As for football in VA…..that has been suspended. No football in fall in VA and it may be played in spring. As for Gov, he atleast gave the go ahead for sports to practice. Games and travel are a whole different ball game and that will take seeing what the virus does before making a decision by him and PIAA.

  117. New2PA says:

    Thinking back, the Governor let HS start practicing before 7/1 as long as the district had a plan. The administration also clarified mask rules to allow participants doing summer workouts to remove them during high intensity activity. I guess I’m seeing those as progressive moves that wouldn’t point to them shutting things down preemptively.

    I think they will more like make some general rules (like the 250 outdoor event one already on the books) and say if you can meet those as well as the various mask rules, go for it. The PIAA will say, districts, make your plans. And we will start and see how it goes. If the Governor is going to make any proclamations, its going to be about the go/no go of in-person education.

    By the time we get to November, if the state is in good shape, PIAA playoffs will happen. If it isn’t, that’ll be it.

  118. Buddy says:

    It’s not the teachers they worry about, it’s the students. And all the potential law suits. The proposal in congress now pending,

    about schools, hospitals etc, being exempt from law suits related to corona must go thru, otherwise, i doubt they’ll have school.

    My daughter is a teacher. She wants to go back. And yes, she actually does her job, same as all the other teachers.

  119. Irish1 says:

    Foleman, I agree,other people have to go to work with precautions,how come the teachers cant. Many of the people who have been working thru all this make a fraction of what the teachers make. Why cant they just let things play out and give it a chance.

  120. Foleman says:

    If Corona cases continue to trend upward in Pennsylvania, our fearless leader will cancel all fall sports and have all K-12 schools back online. One of Wolf’s largest backers- the Teachers Union is already complaining about having to go into class and actually do their jobs. I seriously doubt we will have HS football this fall and it’s a shame.

  121. Matt says:

    @Frank, I agree with what they could do to limit attendance at games for HS. Maybe each players gets four family tickets, each coach gets two, each band member and cheerleader gets two. Maybe they allow only seniors (non football, band, cheerleader) to attend games. Allow all other students to pick one home game if they choose. I would hope tv would do more games for the general fan to watch of they did that

  122. FrankG says:

    @Matt HS football may well get cancelled, but it would be easier to have football at that level than at college or pro level. Travel is shorter and simpler, no hotels, and no major problems keeping fans socially distanced. You won’t be able to have crowded stands or groups of students bunched together in the stands, but how often are there truly crowded high school games? I can see allowing families of players and even a limited number of students into games as long as they keep a certain distance. Of course, there will be no games if students aren’t in schools at least most days of the week.

  123. Matt says:

    PSAC just suspended all sports for fall.

  124. Matt says:

    @Buddy….yeah not looking good. I don’t even think students will last long in school this fall. They will probably back to virtual by November. With IVY and Patriot league cancelling seasons, I expect other college conferences to follow and then HS. Pros have an advantage of money and being able to quarentine players in hotels for whole season and playing in empty stadiums. HS and Colleges need the revenue from fans. Pros have TV deals that brings in tons of money. Can we just fast forward a year? 2020 sucks!

  125. Buddy says:

    The patriot league just cancelled their Fall sports ( including football).

    This does not bode well for high school sports. No fans allowed would be terrible, although logical.

    NP, for such a large program, never has live streaming, like Neshaminy and Pennsbury.

    WNPV is off the air. NPTV covers home games only ( too expensive to travel I guess).

    Since there is no home games, don’t know what the hell they’ll do. Prediction: I think they will cancel Fall sports.

    Too bad. NP , I think, will be pretty good this year and better next year ( although they won’t beat LaSalle either year ).

  126. Kevin X says:

    Thnx Buddy. I actually did see on the North Penn website the other day that they tentatively scheduled 3 “home” games at Soudy, and one at Pennridge. The LaSalle game is schedule at P-W.

    Of course, and unfortunately, seems like we have to preface everything with the if there is a season. Not overly optimistic at this point. Maybe best case senerio is a limited local schedule without fans/general public in attendance.

  127. Buddy says:

    Kevin X and all interested:

    NP is setting up contracts at 3 different stadiums ( if they do play football):

    Souderton, Pennridge and Wissahickon.

  128. Kevin X says:

    Article on the North Penn Crawford Stadium renovations…….

    OK, my question is, and can’t believe this was not mentioned in the article, is of course assuming that there is even a high school football season, where is North Penn going to play their home games?? I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere.


  129. Texas Bob says:

    After tearing down Crawford Stadium and rebuilding it. what do you think the seating capacity will be? About the same?


  130. mgguy says:

    I agree on the track around the stadium, Gurski Stadium in West Lawn used to have the cinder track and it was narrower and didn’t have the big areas in the end zones. Used to be able to stand along the end line almost at the goal post, now everything is set way back. Lose the feeling of intimacy. The Silver Bowl in Mount Carmel used to have the fans right on the lines too. Play on real grass!

  131. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    I’m with you with regards to stadiums sans tracks. Guessing most of us are. Probably all know the reason for them, the whole multi-purpose/space/economical angle. Kind of like the MLB/NFL stadiums of the1970s, including our beloved Vet in South Philly.

    That is why my fav stadium in D1 is easily Kottmeyer in Downingtown. If you have never seen a game there, I’d highly recommend trying to get out there some Friday evening this fall, assuming we have high school football and with fans (thinking the latter may be the issue). My old high school’s stadium upstate was one without track as well. In fact, there was very little room between the sideline and the first row of seating. Maybe too close for comfort. It also has real grass and no lights. A real throwback, but missed out on the Friday night home game experience.

  132. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Ok, better late than never to respond to your Crawford Stadium question, but I just saw this………enjoy!!!


  133. FrankG says:

    @Bob McSpadden

    Thanks for doing the work and posting the results. I don’t know about others, but I wish there were more stadiums / home fields where there isn’t a track separating the stands from the field. Also, I’m curious about how many people usually attend games in some of the bigger stadiums outside the Philly area, e.g. Altoona, Scranton, Bethlehem, the big one in Erie, etc.

  134. Bob McSpadden says:

    I’m a High School Football fan who has a compulsion about football stadiums and fields. (My wife calls it a disease) Back in 2004 I started an online database of all the football stadiums in Texas. I now have 1264 listed. Then I did New Mexico, Oklahoma, Ohio, Louisiana & West Virginia. Last year i decided to do Pennsylvania and my goal was to complete it before the 2020 season. Life got busy and thought maybe I’ll finish next year. … then can the corona virus and with the help of my son, I completed Pennsylvania Stadium inline database. The criteria for a field/stadium to be listed is that the varsity high school football team plays their home games there. I also list College and Professional stadiums. In Pennsylvania my number today is 554 facilities. The secret to the accuracy of all my stadium listings everywhere is football input because there are errors. I hope that you find this database a useful and i look forward to your input.


  135. Kmac says:

    Thank you, Mgguy.

    I had a great run over almost the 65 years, and now it is trying to see all the TV, video stream, etc games I can, with two or three in person early in the season to get that feeling. Who knows what this season will bring. None of the “buddies” that I enjoyed the games with have gone to games for many years now. Fortunately, only two of the group have passed on, both aged up pretty good. Thank you again for your thoughts.

  136. Mgguy says:

    Really enjoying Kmac’s write ups. Thank you. Takes me back to when I was at a lower anthracite game every Friday night and a Wilson WL game every Saturday. WWL at Pennsbury was a lot of fun

  137. Buddy says:

    Anyone hear news on the new stadium for North Penn? Supposed to start June.

  138. BigFishFry says:

    PIAA should make state playoffs into 2 division one division being SMALL DIVISION MEANING ONLY SCHOOLS 1A-3A can participate in. And a LARGE DIVISION MEANING ONLY SCHOOLS 4A-6A qualify. Each division team holds a best 32 team out 1A-3A for small n next 32 for 4A-6A. EACH SIDE OF PLAYOFF BRACKET WOULD HOLD 16 on East n 16 from West I would love to see this happen instead of the basic 1A-6A state champion we would have SMALL DIVISION CHAMP AND A BIG SCHOOL CHAMP MEANING ONLY THE BEST WOULD PLAY. Imhotep PCC PINE RICHLAND NORTH ALLY PREP WOOD LASALLE ROMAN WOODLAND HILLS SO MANY MORE WOULD ALL BE I. ONE BIG KNOCKOUT TOURNAMENT. Would love to see this happen.

  139. Jack Mac says:

    First let me say I wouldn’t consider myself a republican or Democrat. I am a normal human being. A couple of things here.
    1. Colleges and universities HAVE to open this fall. If not it will be the collapse of the higher ed system. Why would any student pay 50-70k per year to learn online when they can go to online community college for 3-5k. No room and board. It will literally end the majority of private schools especially private school athletic programs not in Power 5 Conferences. Colleges will open. More colleges have announced they will open this fall than have announced they won’t including Notre Dam, Harvard, Dusquesne

    2. We will play football in Pennsylvania. Will everyone play? Will it be a shortened season? I don’t know but some type of HS football will be played in Pa in 2020. If we are waiting for a vaccine than the next version of HS sports we will see is 2021 HS football. I KNOW NOTHING but my guess is shortened regular season with a shortened version of district playoffs that end before November 1st. Basketball/Wrestling is in trouble because of flu season and all the confusions that will bring.

    3. College Football Players were just allowed to return to campus for summer workouts starting June 1st. It’s always a trickle down affect the NFL hasn’t budged in having a normal season now CFB is following suit.

    4. Literally the only thing standing in front of HS football is Governor Wolf. I don’t know if he is right or wrong with what he is doing, that is not a discussion piece for here.

  140. FrankG says:

    @ The Joneses I’m really hoping there’s a season. My point was that I don’t think the main issue is someone or some group not caring about the kids or about football or trying to “control the narrative.” From what I can see, especially when you look at other countries (Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.) where there isn’t as much political partisanship over when and how to “open up”, there’s a great deal of uncertainty about everything to do with sports and with schools–colleges, high schools, etc. Today I heard Cambridge University has decided to go almost completely online till the summer of 2021 with its classes. Meanwhile, I’m wondering how the California state universities will field football teams when they won’t have in-person classes. And I see Harbaugh at Michigan is saying he’d rather play in empty stadiums than not play at all–clearly because he’s sees a real chance the season will get cancelled (not by the state governor but by the Big Ten). One question I have is whether the insurance rates boards and schools pay to cover their athletic programs, especially football, have changed.

  141. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G:
    Not so fast on the college football comments with many colleges saying they are willing play even if their conference says no football. NHL, NBA and MLB aren’t playing yet because they are stuck trying to work out compensation differences, which venues makes the most sense logistically and financially. One the hand the CDC says 60,000 people died in the flu season of 2018-2019 and we all were unaware of it says someone is controlling the narrative of the covid story. No politics here so we shouldn’t even go that rout and if we’re truthful its both sides. Let’s be cautious, lets be smart and Let’s get ready for some football. I have one playing in college and one in highschool. I want it all.

  142. FrankG says:

    @ racer x Who is it who doesn’t care at all about the kids? MLB seems to be assuming they can’t have fans in the stands at least until fall. Colleges, many of which get a great deal of money from football, seem very wary about playing football at all, let alone having fans attend. I’ve heard lots of college coaches say they’re not sure it’s a good idea to play in the fall. Let’s see how long it takes for soccer leagues around the world to open their games to fans. Why do you think the NHL and NBA have yet to announce plans and–if they do resume–will exclude all fans and will enforce many of the precautions you seem to think are unnecessary? My point is that, especially in light of all the uncertainties and given the stakes, people in responsible positions WITHIN sports organizations are understandably cautious.

  143. New2PA says:

    Racer: Not quite all in on the conspiracy, but you are correct that the PIAA has said they are taking direction from the Governors office. Thus far, over half the football playing schools are yellow and we are still a long way from the season starting. As long as there aren’t any huge outbreaks in the yellow and soon to be yellow area’s, They will get to green by the time the season starts. I think school will start along with sports in some fashion. I do believe there is a reasonable chance that not all of the state plays football and the PIAA has said they understand that. So maybe only half the state plays and the season ends after districts finals or state semi’s – or the brackets are redone to exclude D1/12 if they can’t play.

  144. racer x says:

    Truth….unfortunately it’s a hard reality but, decisions on playing high school football this fall will be made by people who who could care less about football or the kids, orders will be given from Governor down, especially in Philly where they have more control, bottom line is this is not about the virus but the election in November.They will try hard to keep things shut down. People will try to fight back the orders and we are already seeing that.
    However, If they do play you will have limitations on crowd(parents only), masks must be worn, social distancing, player temperature checks before game by health officials, time outs for sanitizing, etc. It’s all about continuing the fear porn, scaring people into thinking this is soooo bad that…. voting must be done by mail, in addition to other agendas here.

  145. Mike A says:

    sausmann9…As a Cumberland Valley alumni I have 2 more to possibly add to your list (I was there for both games):

    1992 Cumberland Valley vs. Upper St Clair (AAAA State Final)

    2015 Cumberland Valley vs. Central Dauphin (AAAA District 3 Championship and State Quarter-Final) – Record Setting Game

    I have displayed a shortened link to the USA Today article on the game above as to not give away the results (which were in the original URL). Don’t click if you if want to be in suspense!

  146. New2PA says:

    This seems more optimistic than not about starting in the fall.


  147. Route54 says:

    Just a little less than 2 months ago while driving to the poconos to a job site, I’m thinking football isn’t to far off. Now most are wondering if there will be any football at all this season. Including college.

  148. sausmann9 says:

    If the quarentine doesn’t end and our season is sadly cancelled, I am going to try something here but might need some assistance/advice/etc.. If cancelled, starting August 2020 – I am going to try and post three to four games for an upcoming weekend. Many of you that still have a games list from me, start from the Mjsc. PA games section at the 1991 CB West v Erie Prep game and go up from there.

    For example:

    Week 1 in August we shall see:
    1991 CB West v Erie Prep (AAAA state title)
    1993 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Greenville (AAA western final)
    1996 Blackhawk v Berwick (AAA state title)

    Week 2 in August we shall see:
    1999 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    1999 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    1999 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 3 in August we shall see:
    2000 CB West v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA semifinal)
    2000 CB West v Erie Cathedral Prep (AAAA state final)
    2000 West Allegheny v Strath Haven (AAA state final)

    Week 4 in August we shall see:
    2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills (AAAA state final)
    2002 Parkland v North Penn (AAAA Eastern final)
    2002 Parkland v Central Dauphin (AAAA semifinal)
    2002 Parkland v Bethlehem Catholic (AAAA D11 final)

    Week 5 in August we shall see:
    Mount Carmel Area v Seton LaSalle (AA state final)
    Strath Haven v Hopewell (AAA state final)
    Big 33 game PA v Ohio all-star game (played 6/03)

    what do some of you think of this idea??? I have been doing this for some others for OOS games. Thinking of switching gears and doing PA games at the start of the season. would some of you get into these games or nobody into yesterday’s deal? let me know if good idea and I will see if I can post them starting 8/1/2020.

  149. sausmann9 says:

    question: anyone know where Stone Hollenbach is going to play??? I didn’t see his name on the spring roster nor is he on the quarterback depth chart; if he were to switch positions what would he do? Punt? Tightend? just curious b/c I have no idea but would love to see him start at some school and throw up some big time numbers. tx.

  150. David Mika says:

    Foleman….This is big news!

  151. Foleman says:

    This is Huge for Berks County, Wyomissing, Berks Catholic, Kutztown were having a very difficult time scheduling OOC opponents, a win-win for all counties involved. It will be interesting to see what teams will play up. I cant see Muhlenberg or Daniel Boone staying in the large school division, would love to see Wyomissing move up, they will crush all comers in the lower division. They would be competitive in the large school LL this upcoming season. Looking forward to the WYO/S. Columbia game this year……….if there is a season……….

  152. David Mika says:

    Robert….We are all hoping. I think the Philly region is going to decide if we have fall sports this year.

  153. Robert Nolan says:

    Any word on whether the 2020 high school football season will be played?

  154. mgguy says:

    I stand corrected on the date, league play will start in 2022

  155. mgguy says:

    A correction, new league season starts in 2022 for the LL merger with Berks

  156. mgguy says:

    A new “super conference” just approved by the L-L, 37 teams total with the addition of the Berks Conference to the L-L for football only starting in 2021. Resolves a lot of scheduling issues and allows for more competitive games for a lot of teams. Expect Reading to be in Section 1 with Wilson. Actual section breakdowns and organization to be addressed in future.

  157. FrankG says:


    Please don’t bring politics onto this forum.

  158. Santa says:

    From the North Pole Santa was wondering if Roth could send some of his players up for this upcoming Christmas. The Democrats have destroyed our economy with this fake virus and there scare tactics unfortunately for southern Columbia the Democratic Party has also destroyed any state title hopes in 2020. Santa is currently looking for great help with great leadership skills that could only be taught by the god of high school football coaches Jim Roth. Since there will be no recruiting opportunities for the 2020 class in southern Santa would like to offer every senior free living quarters meals and work putting together the best Christmas ever in 2020. We are no knoebles campground but we will keep you warm a roof over your head and fed to provide the best Christmas ever

  159. Bobo says:

    Hopefully, wbcb1490.com will continue to livestream games for several teams in Lower Bucks County. They focus primarily on Pennsbury, Neshaminy and Conwell-Egan, however, based on who those teams play you get a pretty good sampling of the Suburban One and Catholic League Blue.

  160. Buddy hensler says:

    wonder if any other local station will pick up the NP games? probably not eh.

  161. Mike Smoll says:

    Wow, could not believe the news, remember seeing Jim Church back in the day at games and talking to Jim, have listened to them for years and years, will certainly be missed, of course the big stations coming in and taking some of their biggest (and advertising dollars) games away, such as the Pennridge-Quakertown Thanksgiving Day game really hurt.

    BTW PV will have their field ready before NP.

  162. phillyboy says:

    Say it ain’t so, 1440 am WNPV is shutting down. That’s a huge bummer. I’ve been listening to that show since the early 2000’s, probably 2004. It was a gem. By rights it should have been picked up by 94 WIP. But it’s primarily a professional sports town here in Philadelphia. Many a Friday night I enjoyed the simple pleasure of coming home and listening to those guys; the quirky and funny Jeff Nolan, the affable and fun-to-listen-to Kevin Cooney (with a great Philly accent). Remember Dan Morehouse a few years back and of course the man, the myth, the legend Kyle Berger doing the play-by-play for the North Penn games. Lo’e you guys, was a great run.

  163. Irish1 says:

    Kevin X……..sorry to hear about WNPV , used to listen to both football and basketball games on there. Looking at Perk Valleys schedule for next year,cant believe too many schools have a tougher September……Coatesville, Downingtown W,..Manheim Central,…Spring-Ford. The last three all on the road. I know some of those schools were hit hard by graduation,but they may have over scheduled themselves a bit.

  164. Kevin X says:

    It appears that Perkiomen Valley HS is joining the turf wars, and will be installing an artificial turf at their football stadium, along with a new track. Guess they are buying in bulk as they are also renovating the baseball field with turf as well. So, the big question, which football turf field will host a game first, North Penn or PV??


    Also saw some sad news today that WNPV 1440 AM in Lansdale is going off the air on April 30th. Enjoyed their Friday night football broadcasts if I wasn’t at a game, or catching the post game scoreboard show on my way home from a game.

  165. Kevin X says:

    Happy Hump Day all!!!!

    That is we’re at the halfway point (sort of kind of) from last year’s opening kickoff until the 2020 kickoff. Friday night lights in 26 weeks/6 months from today!!!!

    But whose really counting………

  166. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    Time for Mike Carey to make his return to the sidelines!

  167. The Joneses says:

    @D1 Rob, It is true. I spoke to a parent of an incoming freshman last night and he confirmed.

  168. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    D1 Rob, he did announce that he is leaving for Ursinus to the team yesterday. I am hearing that they will likely post the position as open to the public, but current assistants are welcome to apply. The passing game coordinator (Steve Devlin’s son) is also heading to Ursinus.

  169. D1 Rob says:

    Hearing reports, that Kyle Adkins, the young and fair new HC is leaving Wood to become an assistant at Ursinus… I know there’s been some stuff going on during the Off season with the transfer classification bump to 6A. Does anyone have any insider information? And if this is true are they going to get an interim coach within the program or open the application process up to the public? I know former Bristol/WT coach Leo Plenski was the offensive line coach this past season.

  170. D3 Mike says:

    Bob, I was not at any of the meetings. The info I had was from two Pittsburgh reporters I follow on Twitter who were at one of the meetings, though. Considering that one also posted screenshots to the preliminary playoff brackets before anyone else in the state had seen them, I took the Tweets as pretty credible evidence that they were there. That said, reporting on one appeal reason certainly doesn’t preclude other reasons for appeal (as you said below) and there are multiple meetings and steps in the appeal process. I’d think there would be minutes somewhere since these are all supposed to be public meetings, aren’t they?

  171. Bob says:

    D3 Mike did I read your comment correct? The Wood principal argued the rule over player safety? That would be very very different than what was reported back to me. My understanding was that Wood’s argument was based around the rule change from 5 transfers to 3 transfers after they had already allowed four transfers, an argument that one of those 4 transfers was approved by the PIAA as a non athletic transfer after winning his hearing for the “hardship” rule, and also to do with the fact that they had LOST more transfers than they had gained. It would be VERY surprising to me if the principal argued against the classification due to player safety.

  172. Buddy Hensler says:

    @Kevin X

    Yu da man! ( link worked).

  173. Kevin X says:

    That’s what I heard too a few years ago about PW, that the rent asking price was pretty high. Don’t get why, because the stadium/facility is nothing to write home about. It is OK, decent, adequate, functionally, at best, but that’s about it, IMO. Basically location location location. I know there was some construction going on at the school the past few years, assuming the new gym (which is really nice, btw), so parking was getting tight near the stadium and construction activity. Maybe they can take another look, get some x-tra $$ to help pay for the new gym (and maybe upgrades to the stadium) 🙂

  174. Kevin X says:

    Hey Buddy

    This article is the most recent that I have heard/saw on the issue. Looks like it is moving forward, albeit slowly. Who know if, what, when, etc. it will actually happen. No promises that this link will work, I’ve been getting shut out do to too many freebies…….


  175. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley football adds former Penn State and NFL DT Jordan Hill to coaching staff

  176. The Joneses says:


    I second that thought on PW. I know that is why LaSalle stopped playing there. I guess PW doesn’t need the revenue after loosing two prime renters.

  177. Bob says:

    Kevin X

    I think the issue with PW is the cost. Last I heard PW price to rent the field is out of control. Nobody wants to play there anymore. I could be wrong but I don’t even remember as many playoff games being played there anymore as a result.

  178. Buddy Hensler says:

    @ NP fans ( hopefully there are some out there):

    Has anyone heard anything on the new stadium at North Penn?

  179. Irish1 says:

    PJP playing tough early schedule next year with Arch Carroll, Chestnut Hill from inter ac league and also Berks Catholic along with New Hope before Pac league games start.

  180. NE-Alum says:

    I see Northeast has a good competitive out-of-league schedule with:

    week 0 – Gonzaga College HS (Washington DC)
    week 1 – Camden High
    week 2 – Paramus High (North Jersey)
    week 3- Haverford

    Good for Philly Football to play and showcase the talent in the area to the other areas throughout the country.

  181. Kevin X says:

    I also saw that there will be an early season 5A state final re-match on Saturday Sept. 12 @ Wm. Tennent as Cheltenham visits Archbishop Wood.

    @ Frank G

    Seriously. That would be nice. What I’d also like to see, and this may be a little selfish, is that SJP gets out of Widener for their home field and move back to P-W, or north of the city like Upper Dublin or Wissahickon. I know LC has their home games at Wissahickon, but I was at the LaSalle/SJP regular season game at Wissahickon and it was electric (at least until late 1st qtr.). Same thing with LaSalle, find a stable home field. Believe they had “home” games at four different venues last season.

  182. Jeff H says:

    @Brian – I did not state Aliquippa would be forced to move up from 4A to 5A, but now that they are in 4A they will be forced to stay in 4A in 2 years if they have 3 or more transfers, regardless of whether they accumulate any success points. You are obviously correct about the combination of transfers and success points to initially move up, but once a school is forced to play up they stay in their new class if they have 3 or more transfers, regardless of their success at the new class, that was my point. If Wood or Imhotep has 3 transfers the next 2 years they will stay at 5A and 6A respectively and will not be allowed to drop back down a class.

    You show your ignorance of how the WPIAL functions if you believe Aliquippa played up to 3A to avoid Southern Columbia, anyone from Aliquippa would laugh in your face if you made that comment. The fact is they moved to 3A when classes were expanded because that’s the class all their rivals played in, and if they wanted to play their rivals they had to play 3A, because the WPIAL only places teams from the same classification in a conference, which is different than most of the rest of the state. Had the PIAA not made the move to 6 classes I can guarantee you the Quips would have played in 2A the last several years and would have likely played and lost to So Col in a few of those state finals, and had So Col played 3A the last few years Aliquippa would have still played 3A, those are facts whether you want to believe them or not. I also disagree with you about 2018, as great as Farrell was Aliquippa was better than they were that year, and both Central Valley and Wyoming were a lot better than Farrell this year, you must be watching different games than I am. I’m not disagreeing 3A is the weakest class statewide, but take So Columbia out of 2A and then tell me you think whoever would have won 2A in 2018 would have beaten Aliquippa that year, because IMO Aliquippa would have easily beaten any other 2A team.

    @ Philly Boy – Tony Dorsett did live in the projects in Aliquippa, but my understanding is he attended Hopewell because it was much better academically, as you mentioned they are bordering districts.

  183. David Mika says:

    We started posting schedules

  184. Michael says:

    When are the 2020 schedules posted?

  185. Frank G says:

    @Kevin X I really hope SJP arranges that one of their games against a high-profile team from outside the area is played in the Philly area. Last year their three such games were in Georgia and at Rutgers (twice). Not many people in the school community and in the wider community can make it to games played out of the area. Going to games is a habit, and if you don’t start going in September, you’re less likely to go in October and November.

  186. Kevin X says:

    Looks like SJP is heading down to the Lone Star state to open their season (August 29th) against Texas 5A champion and power Shadow Creek. Game is slated to be an ESPN game. They also have a game in DC against St. John’s on their early season schedule.

  187. Jut says:

    That is all nonsense about PSU recruiting SCA. They do recruit them, but only give out a few offers and scholarships. They recruited Fleming, he just chose OSU that’s where he thinks he could excel at. Which if you watched the PSU bowl game they are going to run the ball a lot more next year. That’s why star wide receiver KJ Hamler is going to the draft this year. PSU has 4 4-5 star rbs. The comment about its cause SCA is surround by cornfields is funny. Like 10 miles south them is North Schuylkill high school and their linebacker got recruited by Penn state and signed with them. On that note would love to see sca play north Schuylkill. MCA does and it’s a decent rival between the 2. Justin shorter leaving Psu, didn’t play well in most of the games he played and was also injured for most of his freshman year. So he chose to take his abilities else where which now is easy with the transfer portal. I don’t like it but it the kids choice,

  188. Brian says:

    Goldman, marks didn’t transfer out of penn st. He got kicked out because of some choices. He was talented but lacked work ethic. He tried to go to Pitt where Hynoski was but that didnt work out there either cuz he couldn’t stay out of trouble. As for playing Wyoming area. Southern added Wyoming area this past year and beat them 42-0 so I’m assuming it had nothing to do with whether southern was moving up or not. Southerns been trying to add Berwick for awhile now but they didn’t until this group graduated sounds like its week 1 of next season.

  189. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, thanks for the clarification on the transfer rules. Just shows how clueless the PIAA is, wait until the success factor hits the basketball powerhouses, it’s going to get real interesting there. Southern Columbia, as someone pointed out earlier on this board, gets all of their transfers in before HS so they will never have to move up with the new success factor. As far the WYo/SC game this year, I like Wyo, with 16 starters back over a rebuilding SC. Which leads me to another question. Did SC know ahead of plan that they would not have to move up to AAA? I believer they did as there was no way they would have scheduled WYO knowing that they would meet up in the State Playoffs. Wyo dropped Berks Catholic off the schedule as they thought they were moving down to 3A, BC opted to stay at 4A. On PSU recruiting SC players, SC players are so well coached they peak in HS, the few Div 1 football players they had over the years didn’t fare so well in College. Josh Marks was an all american lineman from SC who went to Penn State and never saw the field and transferred out. I believe SC’S Garcia was recruited by the Michigan staff to save a ship for Wrestling, I might be wrong, but I doubt he will see much PT playing football for the Wolverines. SC’S stud receiver Fleming was friends with PSU’S Justin Shorter, a former top ranked receiver who hardly played at PSU and just transferred to Florida, that didn’t sit well with Fleming, OSU puts receivers in the pro’s and having St. Joe Prep’s stud QB Kyle McCord signing on at OSU was a big plus.

  190. Mike Smoll says:

    Thanks, just seems odd that after one of the best seasons in school history and a nice run in the states, the WHOLE STAFF quits save one. Just odd.

  191. phillyboy says:

    @ Jeff H — Speaking of Aliquippa, always wondered why the great Tony Dorsett didn’t go to Aliquippa if that’s where he was from. According to Wikipedia he went to Hopewell HS which is in Hopewell Township, a contiguous suburb. Did he technically live in Hopewell, was just curious what the situation was if you have any insight. Reminds me a little bit of how Bo Jackson attended McAdory High School (outside of Bessemer AL) although to the best of my knowledge he was actually from Bessemer.

  192. Brian says:

    Jeff I understand the transfer rule very well. You could have 100 transfer but if you don’t accumulate the success points it doesn’t matter you don’t get moved up. You can win a state title every year but if you don’t reach the transfer limit you’re not moved up. So if Aliquippa does lose every game for the next 2 years they won’t be forced up. As for AAA I will stand on my statement that AAA is the weakest class there is. The A and AA champion would’ve won AAA the past 2 years. I’ve watched AAA game both years and those teams weren’t impressive. I will stand on my statement about Aliquippa too. All these years they played AA with A enrollment until Southern moved up to AA and then all the sudden the Quips moved up to AAA. why did they move up all the sudden to AAA when they could’ve done it years prior to that? I know you’ll give me the same reasoning but ironically as soon as southern hit AA and beat them they just thought hey we should move up for tougher competition because AA is too easy even though southern demolished them.

  193. Jeff H says:

    @ Brian – Aliquippa playing 3A the last 4 years had nothing to do with avoiding Southern Columbia, I’ve explained it on this board in years past but will do so again, the reason they played in 3A was because almost all of their rivals are 3A, period, end of story. I can guarantee you they give absolutely zero consideration to what class So Col plays, and if So Col would have played 3A the last few years so would have Aliquippa. The WPIAL only puts teams from the same classification in a conference, so it they played 2A or especially 1A they would have been travelling long distances to play conference games against teams that were not their natural rivals from Beaver County.

    There was a lot of debate among coaches and AD’s the last 2 months in the WPIAL over grouping schools geographically regardless of class and put teams from different classes in the same conference for the first time in many decades, but a large majority of the coaches favored keeping the conferences all the same class. You also don’t understand the transfer rule or you wouldn’t say Aliquippa will be moving back to 2A in a couple of years, they could lose every game for the next 2 years (which obviously is not going to happen, they will still be above 500 in 4A and likely make the district playoffs) and if they have 3 or more transfers they will be forced to stay at 4A for the following 2yr cycle, and they will have transfers due to the nature of that district being one of the poorest in the state with a lot of single parent households.

    I also disagree with you about 3A being easier to win than 2A, any 3A champion the last 4 years would have beaten every 2A team in the state except Southern Columbia, the only reason 2A was tougher for schools to win than 3A was strictly due to So Col. Now if you said 4A was tougher to win than 5A the last few years I and a lot of others would agree.

  194. SCA69 says:

    D3…Your narrative reasoning is insightful. (Though some may think “inciteful”.) You propose observations in your discourse that lends itself to further thought and discussion. Indeed “fairness” is subjective…somewhat like the old critical ironic observation that there are two kinds of people in this world: the “righteous” and the “unrighteous”! The classifying is always done by the “righteous”!!!!! Similarly with “fairness”. I agree that there is nothing fair or unfair about a H.S. student athlete not having the opportunity to play in a playoff or even a championship game. Perhaps “unfortunate” is the more appropriate term. Could we agree to start with the premise, “All High School student athletes should have the opportunity to play in the sport(s) of their choosing” or something akin to the idea? Given certain academic, attendance, and other criteria that is uniformly applied by all schools under the PIAA rules and regulations. Of course, then we get into the argument of, “why should a student who has a lower IQ (and thus, perhaps lower grades) be denied the opportunity to play because they do not meet the “minimum grade” standard for participation. It very well could be that that lower IQ student is actually exceeding (academically) what academicians and psychologists would expect! We can leave that discussion for another time.

    Winning brings its own challenges, one of which is the direct proportion of wins to dislike. The increasing number of times a team wins seems to effect an increase the number of people who resent its winning. I wonder if those having strong negative/resentful/disfavorable opinions of SCA winning would have the same if SCA regularly lost in the first or second rounds of the playoffs, but still had undefeated regular league seasons? Then, I’m sure, there would be a chorus of those who wonder, “What’s wrong with Southern? They always choke in the playoffs.” Then again, those student athletes who played and lost to the SCA football team may very well brag, “we played the number one team in the country!” And those who played against Julian Fleming might say they played against the number one receiver in America. And how many athletes who played against Henry Hynoski will say with pride, “I played against a future pro-football player…or even, “I got run over by Henry Hynoski!” And perhaps those players on teams in the same league as Southern may very well speak with pride that they had the number one team in the country in their league. I recall when Mount Carmel, Berwick, and Southern were all state champions in their respective divisions. There was much pride in the area for the “coal region’s” football prowess. And I venture to guess that there are not a few athletes who have looked and learned from the dedication of the Southern football players and increased their own efforts and dedication.

    I will end for now with another premise we might agree too…that we should not “punish” a successful team if it is playing by the rules. The argument then begins with…what should those rules entail? I will argue, however, there should never ever be a rule that punishes for success!

  195. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I am fairly certain that PSU didn’t offer any of the other Southern kids other than Fleming.
    I could be wrong but I don’t think they did.

    It seems to me that PSU for years and years and years has some sort of recruiting matrix that kids have to fit into that includes being a certain size, namely height/weight. I don’t even usually see elite speed being as important for them. But you better fit the bill in your frame or else they aren’t interested. And I am a PSU fan…. They get some good dudes but I think they miss sometimes on evaluations because of their lack of focus on intangibles. Obviously that is not always the case (ex. McSorley) but I am just seeing a pattern since even the 80’s.

  196. Jimmy says:

    Honestly I don’t think it is a Southern Columbia thing. Look at the elite players over the past few years none have gone to PSU. Just off the top of my head
    Swift Georgia
    Maguire Clemson
    Trotter Clemson
    McCord Ohio St
    Harrison Ohio St
    White Texas A&M
    Baramore Alabama
    Pitts Florida
    Upsure Florida St
    Fleming Ohio St

    Now they have gotten Parsons and Sanders which were two elite prospects. Also something to consider especially with the other Soco kids other than Fleming how much was PSU interested? They may have offers but most schools put out 200+ offers for 25 spots, a lot of those are non-commitable offers. I have no insight as to why but the elite college football teams in the country are Alabama Clemson Ohio St Georgia LSU Oklahoma… If you play college football at any level especially the power 5 level you cannot be concerned about playing time because if you are you aren’t the competitor you need to be at that level they are always bringing in players right after you just as accomplished

  197. 4th and Long says:

    Mike, the rumor about Southern Lehigh is the administration wanted to fire one coach and the staff said either he stays or we all leave. I don’t know why one coach would be singled out, but I’d bet it involved a conflict with a parent or someone attached to the district. That’s all third hand, so take it for what it’s worth.

  198. Santa says:

    There’s no anti penn state at sca. Franklin isn’t going to recruit where cornfields grow around the high school football field. I’m sure all the sca boys would of loved to be at psu. The facts are that they are not from a big intercity school or from south Florida and franklin still lines up in the shotgun when its 4th and 1 from the 1. Santa will say no more cause even the undereducated can coach division 1

  199. Brian says:

    Sausmann, be honest, if you were a division 1 football player and were deciding where to that gave you the best chance to compete for a national championship would you choose penn st? Take being a fan of the school out of the equation. I’m a notre dame fan and if I was a division 1 football player I wouldn’t go to notre dame. They can’t win the big games.

  200. sausmann9 says:

    Okay let me ask it this way since it seems to be a sore topic;

    why no SCA kids interested in attending and playing for PSU?

  201. Mike Smoll says:

    Anyone know why the Southern Lehigh Coaching staff resigned in mass (less 1) after one of the best seasons in school history? I saw something in one of the newspapers that they didn’t feel they had administrative support or some kind of constraints put on them, but nothing definite?

  202. sausmann9 says:

    Okay two quick questions;

    Is there some kind of anti-PSU mindset at Southern Columbia or was Roth ever “wronged” by PSU???

    second question, after looking at the depth chart for Alabama and the fact they just brought in ANOTHER 5-star quarterback, at what point does Hollenbach look into transferring, starting, and actually playing somewhere while he has a few seasons of eligibility left? Bryce Young 5star, Mac Jones 5star, Tualia Tagovailoa 4star, Paul Tyson 4star, Hollenbach walk on.

  203. Brian says:

    I don’t see any sca fans crying. I do see them staying valid points why moving up to AAA doesn’t make sense. The word dominating has been used and yes this current graduating class was dominant but they had once in a lifetime team come through with 5 division one recruits. They had maybe 3 total in school history so they were fortunate to have them all in the same class. Last year they didn’t necessarily dominate like you say. Wilmington was locked in a 14-14 game mid 3rd quarter and the wheels fell off. When southern went up 2 scores Wilmington had to ditch they’re game plan and dig themselves deeper. Mt. Carmel fave them trouble for the previous 2 years. Their first state title they didn’t dominate and had several close games in states. Southern isn’t going to dominate like they did last year. Aliquippa played up to AAA and decided to do that once Southern whipped them in the state title game they knew southern was going to have the team they did. I said it before it’s easier to win a AAA title than it is a AA title. I expect Aliquippa to drop down to AA at the next cycle. That will depend on how they feel southern is doing at the time. My Carmel may have won a state title in 2018 if southern wasn’t there. Last year no.

  204. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, SCA and Wilmington won their appeals because the PIAA’s official look-back period was two years. For some inexplicable reason, the initial success factor rulings were based off of 3 years worth of data. So SCA and Wilmington appealed, and won. They didn’t even have to present their cases, the error was that obvious. SCA, specifically, had 4 transfers over the 3-year 2017-2019 period but only 2 over 2018-2019.

    Wood appealed based on player safety and lost. They, and Aliquippa, should have appealed because the PIAA instituted this rule after they had already volunteered up. I don’t think they would have won but it was a much better argument (and received sympathy from many) than player safety. The board basically smacked the Wood principal over the head with the program’s voluntary, 6A-laden schedule when he tried to make the player safety argument.

    Other ADs made a case that the rule discriminates against poor schools, which it obviously does. The PIAA probably would have granted that appeal if they only had 4 or 5 transfers. The one school (it was Farrell or Aliquippa, I can’t remember) had 20, though. That number of transfers is more than just poverty-driven, IMO, and why it was denied.

    But yeah, a straight success factor would eliminate all of these rulings, appeals, and arguments. It’s what they do in many other states.

    Also, I know you’re an area guy. Who’s your early pick in that Wyomissing-Southern Columbia game? Going to be a great atmosphere!

  205. Tornado Fan says:

    Although its not as a player, its exciting to see a Mt. Carmel Area alum excel at the highest level of professional sports.
    Best of luck to the KC Chiefs and GM Brett Veach in Super Bowl LIV!


  206. Dave says:

    Santa, you are a dreamer. Mt. Carmel likely would not have made it beyond districts this past season in 3A. Montoursville lost two games against two eventual state champions and also beat the Jersey Shore team you mentioned by 37 points.

  207. Foleman says:

    Lets face facts, the transfer rule was implemented due to the private schools and some charters loading up on transfers making already strong teams even stronger. All of the Public schools thought that this was a great idea to restore competitive balance in the playoffs. Then the success factor was added, and when the Public schools realized it was going to affect them just as much as the privates, they cried foul, and to some degree its not fair for the Aliquippa’s of the world who are a 1A school and now has to play 4A. For Southern Columbia, which wins more football championships than any other football team in the PIAA and just beat a team by 70 points in the final allowed to remain in AA is an absolute joke. Is their any info anywhere on why SC is allowed to stay at AA and all of the other schools minus St. Joe Prep and Hburgh had to move up? I would love to hear from someone in the PIAA on what criteria they use to determine who wins an appeal and who doesn’t. I would not be surprised in the future if some high powered School Board lawyer takes this to court and that would be the end of the success factor rule in the PIAA.

  208. JC says:

    This appeal business shows that the transfer rule just overcomplicates everything. Make it strictly success based. The worst thing you can do is put subjectivity into things, and that’s where we’re at. Any success factor that doesn’t bump up a team that has been as dominant as SCA lately is ultimately ineffective.

    And before you SCA fans start crying to me about having it out for you, it applies to any other school that is as dominant. Cathedral Prep is moving up. SJP has nowhere up to go. What are you doing?

  209. Santa says:

    About sca staying in class aa. Everyone thinks that staying in aa gives them a much better opportunity to win a state title. That’s false. The 2nd best team in aa last year was mt. Carmel in fact they would of won the state title if southern wasn’t in aa. Mt. Carmel also would of won the state title in class aaa. They also beat a jersey shore state semi finalist in class aaaa by 3 scores. So southern staying in aa is actually putting them in a much higher competition level at least in district 4. The top 3 teams next year from class a to class aaaa in district 4 are in class aa with southern mt. Carmel and Troy in that order. All 3 would win all 4 classes if they weren’t in the same class together.

  210. WarMeaks says:

    The * is because we’ll never know. AW is being forced up and wont get the chance to defend. They win too much. And they had 3 transfers over a 2 year span.
    But they never mention the 11 kids that left during that same 2 year cycle.

    @nw pa.
    You’re making my argument for me. They lost to penn hills, barely beat Gateway, barely beat Cheltenham. They are now being punished for pulling those victories out. They are right on par with those teams.

    On a side note, they will actually be better next year, had a very heavy junior laden team. But that still doesnt mean they should be forced up..

  211. D3 Mike says:

    SCA, you raise great points and I submit that there are lots of perfectly valid ways to view this topic.

    As far as “fairness”, it’s a subjective term that gets thrown around in this forum so often I’d be remiss to not address it. Personally, I don’t think kids are being “penalized” nor do I think it’s “unfair” to not get to win a state title. I appreciate that point of view and it’s probably the POV I’d have if I were from one of the schools on the short-end, here, but those still aren’t the terms I’d use.

    I worked a lot harder than a lot of the kids who got to play in Hershey last month. Ended up playing two sports D1. Guess what? Despite the talent and work ethic, I didn’t have Roth as a coach or 5 other D1 athletes on my team. As a result, I never even saw the state playoffs, let alone a state title game. Was that ”fair”?

    Is it fair to the kids who practice in urban Philly without goalposts while suburban districts have booster clubs to make sure players have whatever they need?

    Is it fair that land in Catawissa costs $3 an acre, making it a lot easier to hollow out a dying Danville and Shamokin and concentrate all of the talent in a given geography in one district?

    Is it fair that one QBs dad can fund the $7k tuition bills for promising transfers for his son’s team while the QBs dad at another Catholic school, can’t?

    I could go on and on. I said this forever ago during the public-private debate. It will never be “fair”, no matter what anyone does. It wasn’t fair when only 4 district winners made the state playoffs. It’s not fair for boundary schools, now. It’s not fair for poor schools. It wasn’t fair when we only had 4 classes. Someday soon, someone will make the argument that it’s unfair that 6A has such a wide range of enrollments … and we’ll suddenly have 7 classes. This will go on forever.

    The success factor is a utilitarian response: it’s intended to please the majority and a couple of programs lose out in the process. But the system will never be “fair”, with or without the success factor.

  212. Jut says:

    As far as the new state playoff brackets are composed, there shouldn’t be any byes since the last couple of years was a joke for all the byes. None made sense.

    For SCA not winning the Appeal congrats to them. I said this before SCA loves beating up on teams. They have so much fun with it. They get transfers but they come in at 8th grade level so they aren’t considered transfers and then they redshirt them. They will be at the AA level for a long time and will keep on winning titles but won’t move up to AAA.

    Your are right about District 7 didn’t run the PIAA. District 3 runs it. In my eyes district 3 should be split in half. It’s too big. It has all the power

  213. NW PA says:

    @warmeak: I wasn’t trying to stir up any sympathy for ECP. It’s a strange geographic situation. The WPIAL obviously has a ton of 5A teams and most of the rest are nowhere near Erie, but to put a team from Erie on the opposite side of the bracket from WPIAL is bizarre, they should at least play in the semi finals. With the lack of 5A teams on the western side of the state outside of the WPIAL there will obviously be traveling in the playoffs but the current situation makes it hard for the parents who have to travel a long way to see their child play. If it was the teams you route for I’m sure you’re care more. Also not sure what the asterisk is for? ECP doesn’t mind a challenge look at their schedule the last few years.

  214. SCA69 says:

    Intro: I was a forum contributor years ago, but took a hiatus for several years. However, I have followed the discussions. With regards to the PIAA’s “Success Factor,” and “Transfer” criteria to assign or reassign the classifications, I have a number of problems with its application. One is, why should a school, more importantly the players, be forced to “play-up” until they start losing? The scenario would be: A school wins for several years, then has to move up. That school then loses a few years, so it gets to move down. It then wins a few years and again has to move up. Why should those students who played in those years when the school moved up and suffered losing seasons, be denied the opportunity to compete against similarly sized schools and perhaps have “winning” seasons? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for those kids. Many may never play on an organized team again. If they dedicate themselves for those years they play to make themselves stronger, bigger, more skilled, etc., why should they be denied the opportunity to enjoy the success of their dedication? Two: The previous year(s) success is no indication for the future. Yes, there are teams, such as Southern, who have had success in their respective classifications for years, but for public schools, particularly such as with Southern, it is a reflection of the quality of coaching, the culture, school and community support, and numerous other individual and community factors. These factors and human elements should be rewarded and encouraged. Three: the whole purpose behind this “formula” is to make a school, and the players, lose! It has nothing to do with “fair” competition. Hey, if a wrestler wins states in his weight class, under this thinking, that wrestler should have to move up a weight class the next year! Or a pole vaulter who has won states the previous year, in the next year must vault a full inch, instead of a half inch, more than the next highest vaulter in order to win. If it is ridiculous and unfair to do it to an individual, isn’t it just as ridiculous and unfair to do it to a team?

    With regards to the “Transfer” rule, the PIAA needs to expand the “allowable” reasons to transfer. Society is much more fluid these days with job length of service. Right now, the average someone stays in a job is five (5) years! But, there are many other “legitimate” reasons for moving: family growth requiring a larger home, a desire to change one’s environment, being closer to areas that support one’s hobbies and life’s interests, and various personal opportunities. And some student athletes may live on the fringe of a school district boundary, but have close associations with students in a neighboring school district, why shouldn’t he or she be allowed to be on a team with friends from outside of school? If a student athlete has the opportunity to play for a team where his or her athletic abilities will get more readily noticed by colleges, thus affording that student athlete a greater opportunity to get a college scholarship…why should he/she be denied. With the cost of college education these days…this is critical to the future of that person. The coach of Aliquippa also mentioned the “fluidity” of families and students in their school district, which I am sure affects many others. If a student (not student athlete, but just student) can transfer for academic, social, environmental, and etc., reasons these should also be allowed for student athletes.

    However, I do agree multiple transfers in sports such as football and individual transfers of “exceptional” athletes in sports such as basketball, can effect the quality and competitiveness those respective teams. But only for those years that athlete plays. And if a student wishes to attend a private school and the parents are willing to shell out the money why not? However, the awarding of scholarships is another matter. The transfer issue is real, however having a winning history is not a reason to make student athletes move up a classification to make them lose. That is just not right. The NCAA has allowed the transfer portal for college athletes, why not allow some portal for high school athletes? Maybe the student athlete who transferred would not be allowed to play in the game in which his/her new team is playing his/her old team. But, would be allowed to play in other games and playoffs. But, that has its problems as well.

    It is a conundrum for sure. They used to have separate playoffs for private and public schools, maybe that needs to be reinstated? Also, perhaps instead of a winning school moving up, a school with a continuous losing record should be allowed to move down a classification? But, there are philosophical improprieties with that as well. Whatever solution should arise, it should not penalize.

    There is a change to the playoffs I would like to see. This observation comes directly from the playoff games between Southern and Mount Carmel. I am sure, in these past years, had Mount Carmel not have had to play Southern they might have gone far into the playoffs…maybe even reaching the championship game! There should be made available an option to a team like Mount Carmel to continue in the playoffs. They truly may have been the “second” best football team these past few years. Unfortunately, they did not have the chance to show that. Maybe, instead of districts, the playoffs are set up like the NCAA basketball playoffs, where the State is divided into four or six geographic divisions…NE, SE, NW, and SW and for six have central south and central north. The teams are then assigned (within reason) to play in these divisions so that the top teams do not have to play each other until later in the playoff bracket. Or a school such as in the case with Mount Carmel gets to choose a district in which it wants to compete for the playoffs. I mean, if the PIAA is so concerned with a good team winning too much, shouldn’t it be concerned with a good team “losing” too much?

  215. New2PA says:

    I don’t understand the asterisk comment? Penn Hills beat Wood a couple years ago and Gateway should have beaten them this year. And I’m pretty sure P-R isn’t any more worried about Wood that they were SJP. They may be good but aren’t unbeatable.

  216. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, thanks for the bracket info. I just saw on the PIAA website info posted (first reading/prelim) of all sports next cycle brackets, etc. (links below may be redundant):



  217. WarMeaks says:

    @nw pa
    So Erie gets a bye in week 11, then gets to beat up on Hollidaysburg in week 12. Teams in that district haven’t faired well recently in the playoffs. Oil city lost 41-0 to southern lehigh who then went on to lose to Wood 41-7.
    And you’re complaining about long bus rides after that?
    Like its anybody else fault that there aren’t enough teams in that part of the state.
    Should they just get a bye right to Hershey?
    Or should the other teams have to travel 7 hours so they can have all home games?
    Sorry man, I’m not breaking out the violin for that.

    Just be glad AW got forced up to 6A and keep the asterisk handy in the record books. ECP, P-R, Gateway. Whomever.

  218. 4th and Long says:

    Kevin X, I think you’re right about the districts and playoffs. I’d take it a step further, only take 16 teams and have it over Thanksgiving weekend. That’s still close to 20% of the teams in a class.

  219. NW PA says:

    @D3 Mike: The 5A bracket is indeed odd. There are no 5A teams in District 10 so Erie Cathedral will get a bye in week 11 and then have to play I’m guessing Holidaysburgh (which is nowhere near Erie) and then teams from the other side of the state 3 weeks in a row to make it to the semi finals. 3 hours bus rides to a neutral site so early in the playoffs is a joke and no team should have to do it.

  220. phillyboy says:

    How is it that Southern Columbia doesn’t have to move up to 3A? That don’t make no sense. That’s the epitome of where the success factor is applicable, are you kidding me?! I think the success factor is a nice tweak or improvement by the PIAA, phillyboy agrees with the premise, he’s all in. If a team chronically destroys their competition you’re darn right they should be forced to move up. Theoretically these teams should want to play up voluntarily but rarely do. I give semi props to Wood and major props to Aliquippa for stepping up to the plate, but some of these scalawags want to keep beating up on inferior competition despite the fact that they already have inherent advantages — what are they kidding themselves? If it were still 3 or 4 classes then I could see digging in at their natural class, but with 6 classes, come on, doesn’t pass the smell test. As has been pointed out the obvious flaw to this success factor system is that 6A teams can’t move up any more. Got to thinking though, over time the elite 5A or 4A teams will have moved up to 6A thereby giving the top 6A teams sturdier competition.

    One thing I’ll say about Southern Columbia though, they do have the wins streak going (48 and counting?), not too shabby. I give them consideration on that aspect. Big time streaks are always intriguing. Could SC set the state record and possibly beyond that?

  221. Brian says:

    Why should southern be embarrassed? I said it before and I’ll say it again. Had southern played up the past 2 or 3 years to 3A or 4A next years group would be forced to compete at the 4A or 5A level. Yes this graduating group could’ve possibly won the state title playing up a class or 2 but the next group will be tested in 2A. Totally unfair to make these kids play in 4A or 5A and get embarrassed in playoffs. Since southern has joined AA in 2014 they’ve won 4 state titles, lost in the state title game, and lost in their district semifinal. 2014 district semifinal loss. 2015 state title by no means mercy ruling everyone. In fact there were many close games. 2016 lost in the state title game when this graduating group were freshmen. Happens to be their only loss. 2017 state title but not all blowouts. Even in 2018 there were close games. Wilmington was tied 14-14 mid 3rd quarter until the wheels fell off for them. 2019 was really the only year they absolutely dominated start to finish. This won’t happen next year. They will be in close games and might win a state title but they can be beat next year. It won’t be easy and they will need to work for it like they did most years prior to this group.

  222. D3 Mike says:

    State College is a long shot to play Prep. They run a very good, clean program but are so well-known, statewide: a) because of PSU, and b) due to the fact that as the only major power in the area they are always playing late into the postseason.
    They have actually only ever won the Mid Penn commonwealth (Central Dauphin, Harrisburg, Cumberland Valley, etc.) outright twice – in 2008 & 2009.

    So to make the finals, State College would have to be the best team in a conference that they only win once every five or six years AND be better than the L-L league’s best team (Wilson or Manheim Twp)… then they have to beat the WPIAL rep, which I think they’ve only ever done once all-time. It’s certainly possible – it’s just not very likely.

  223. WarMeaks says:

    @kevin x
    If u feel like Southern should voluntarily play up, wouldn’t that be the same as not appealing the move up in the 1st place?

    Of all the teams to win their appeal, its the one that mercy ruled everybody in it’s wake. What a joke!

  224. New2PA says:

    Jeff H – you are correct on the 6A brackets.

  225. Tornado Fan says:

    I think SCA coach knows they will not walk through 2A like they did the last 3 years. They may win 2A again with their usual strong O-Line, the younger Garcia at RB and a solid defense but it won’t be a joke like it was last year. Unless they are getting any new transfers which I have not heard.

  226. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I will never pretend to understand the inner workings of the PIAA, any organization who forces a small 1A school like Aliquippa that is already voluntarily playing up 2 classes to play up another class and leaves Southern Columbia at 2A is a joke.

    @New2PA – agree this could be State College’s year to get back to the state final, although if I understand the brackets correctly they will have to beat both the D3 and D7 winner to get there, they did get to Hershey in 2009 after they beat a Woodland Hills team that was decimated by injuries after their slug fest with Gateway for the WPIAL title and lost to LaSalle 24-7.

  227. Kevin X says:

    @ WarMeaks

    Why should Southern Columbia be embarrassed by winning their appeal?? This may be the only time I ever come to SCA’s defense, but who should be embarrassed in this whole success factor situation(s) is the PIAA. As far as I am concerned at the moment (we’ll see how things play out over time and if any tweaks are made to the system in the future), this is a classic case of taking one step forward, and two steps backwards. SCA played the cards that were dealt to them by the PIAA, and won their hand. Do I think they should still voluntarily play up?? Absolutely, but they are under no requirements to do so.

  228. mark d says:

    Now that Southern has won thier appeal they will not be playing Dunmore.Dunmore will be playing Wyoming area in that week.Willimsport .will stay at 6A so their will be a change with the 6A teams in D2.i also noted that Berwick will not be playing any lackawanna conference teams ,but they are going to play Southern i also believe that Wyoming area is keeping Southern on the Schedule it all get finalized next week so them we will know for sure

  229. New2PA says:

    Kevin X – Check Kevin Harlan on twitter for the brackets. He posted all of them last night,

  230. New2PA says:

    X, seems to me P-R got a huge break at the state level in this. 2020 will be their best team since 2017. Can probably beat everyone in 6A – except SJP. They are moving down to 5A and WPIAL will avoid both Imhotep and Erie Prep until the finals. Not sure what D3 has (Warwick?) but out here its now its P-R, Gateway and possibly Peters Twp. And those last two are quite a bit different that PCC and NA.

    I will be interesting for me to learn new teams and go to new venues. Hoping for big things from P-R in this two year cycle. P-R was down 50 boys from last cycle. I’m curious if they will keep dropping.

  231. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, they aren’t officially published but one of the reporters took a picture of the meeting agenda with his phone and posted it to Twitter lol.

    Here’s a link to the Twitter pic (at bottom):


    Or to blow up the brackets a bit easier you can follow Chris Harlan on Twitter and then scroll back to the evening of 1/22 when he posted these.

  232. WarMeaks says:

    Southern Colombia should be embarrassed by winning there appeal. Who are they afraid of in 3A ? They must really love boatracing there way through the 2A brackets. Cobra Kai. No mercy!!!

    Seed the teams 1-64 in all classes.
    I dont care how far the bus ride is.
    Neutral sites are only 3+ hours away in any direction.

    Wood might be a top 10 team next year and have to play SJP in the round of 64 or 32 at best.

  233. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    Do you have a link or location on where we can find the prelim brackets??

    @ New2PA

    I’ve been banging that drum for some time now about just scrapping the districts and going for an even 32 school, 5 week playoff bracket, laid out with some geographical and seeding sense for each classification. But like you alluded to, pretty much a pipe dream, at least for me.

    You guys do realize this 6A talk is all about state runner-up honors, right?? St. Joe Prep is going to be better next year than they were last year, barring numerous season long injuries and/or departures to their key players. Even with McCord and Trotter out the second half of the season, they still pretty much cakewalked, other than the PCC game, to the 6A crown.

    Looser in this is Wood, assuming they that will be required to play up two classifications to 6A. They’ll be bounced in the first or second round next year. I’m sure not many tears are being shed with regards to this.

  234. New2PA says:

    D3 Mike, I mentioned this in another forum, but the districts are so lopsided, that many of those subregionals are necessary just to get close to WPIAL 5A/6A numbers – even though they are down.

    For example, in 5A the subregional that plays D1 in the Semi’s (D2/4/6/8/10/11/12) only has a 16 5A teams total by my count. WPIAL 5A has 18. They both go to the Semi. Its not perfect, but it doesn’t make sense to make that subregional even smaller so that the D7 one was bigger.

    Getting ride of districts would help balance things, but that’s not happening.

    In 6A, NA or PCC will be playing State College in the Semi’s IMO. If there ever was a year for State College to break through to the finals, this is it. NA and PCC will both be down after big losses to their lines. NA has the Dinkins kid and PCC has Donald and the RB, but they both have to replace a ton.

    P-R has them early in the year in crossover games, so I will know more about them then.

  235. Jacob says:

    District 2 schedules are out. Southern Columbia playing three district 2 teams for the next two year cycle. Berwick week 1, Wyoming Area week 4, and Dunmore week 9.

  236. D3 Mike says:

    Preliminary brackets are up. My understanding is that no byes will be allowed for any district except in Week 11.

    Jeff, is the current PIAA board comprised of mostly PCC/NA alums? Not only does PR drop to 5A this cycle, but now the PIAA swings State College back over to the D3 quarterfinal, gives D7 the lightest semi field, AND matches the WPIAL winner back up with D3 in the semis of 5A/6A. Yes, that’s how it used to be but demographics in the state plus the move to 6 classes have changed the balance of schools at the higher classes.

    Off the top of my head, the four 6A semi brackets are now comprised of something like 33 teams, 24 teams, 24 teams … and 14 teams? Regardless of the exact numbers, these look like great changes for D7-6A (and 5A for that matter). Not complaining as much as pointing out the unbalance and that the timing seems odd considering that the west is bleeding big schools.

    Also of note: ECP and Imhotep would play in the 5A quarterfinals. Talk about a bus trip.

  237. D3 Mike says:

    September 22nd, 2019 at 8:12 am
    “[Nick Singleton] was non-existent against Wilson a few weeks ago. He can continue to rack up his gaudy yards and TDs against the sisters of the poor. Besides, Wilson has plenty of RBs of their own who are just as good…”

    Apparently Coach Day doesn’t read this forum or else he might have withheld the offer that Ohio State extended to the sophomore, this afternoon. Singleton is already the most heavily recruited RB to come out of District 3 since LeSean McCoy, if not ever. They are nowhere near the WPIAL teams (or ECP for that matter) but look for his Governor Mifflin squad to challenge Warwick, Manheim Central, Imhotep and the usual suspects in District 1 for top billing in the “east” in 5A over the next two years.

    In other offseason news from District 3, Bishop McDevitt has once again added Harrisburg to its already brutal schedule. McDevitt is presumably in some sort of competition with Berks Catholic to attempt to finish 5-5 yet still win D3-4A. Barring transfer drama, Harrisburg will probably be the favorite in D3-6A next year.

    Finally, the Lancaster-Lebanon and Berks leagues have resumed talks to form a 36-team football-only mega-league (presuming Kutztown drops) for the 2022 season. It looks like both sides really want this to happen to improve scheduling, so I’d look for the merger to get wrapped up by the end of the 2020 season.

  238. Jeff H says:

    @New2PA – I think Aliquippa is getting screwed by the PIAA, it’s ridiculous to force a small 1A school to play schools week after week with 3 times their enrollment. They will certainly win some games but will be totally over matched come playoff time and it won’t be pretty if they have to play TJ.

    @WarMeeks – i know you said in jest District 7 runs the PIAA, if that’s true why the hell did the PIAA deny Aliquippa’s appeal to stay in 3A!

  239. New2PA says:

    PIAA denied Alliquipa’s request to not be forced to move up. Unless they appeal and the PIAA Board overturns the ruling, they will be playing 4A. Very tough level for them.


  240. mark d says:

    Has anyone-out their heard the rumor that Berwick is planing to move to the heartland conference in D4????

  241. TepPro says:

    Imhotep has 2 Freshman that went on and balled out to make NCAA Freshman All American in football Congratz to Omar Speights And Tykee Smith for putting up All American stats as freshman congratz 2 future Imhotep NFL players.

  242. New2PA says:

    Anybody know if ECP (to 5A), Imhotep (to 5A) or Wood (to 6A) are appealing their success-formula-moveup?

  243. Kevin X says:

    To follow-up my previous post…….

    9 current NFL head coaches played high school football in PA …

    Kevin Stefanski
    St. Joe’s Prep

    Joe Judge
    Lansdale Catholic

    Sean McDermott
    LaSalle College

    Matt Nagy
    Manheim Central

    Matt Ruhle
    State College

    Mike McCarthy
    Bishop Boyle

    Frank Reich
    Cedar Crest

    Bruce Arians
    York William Penn

    Vic Fangio

  244. Kevin X says:

    With the recent hire of Kevin Stefanski by the Cleveland Browns, there are now 3 current NFL head coaches with Philadelphia Catholic League roots. Stefanski (St. Joe Prep), New York Giants recent hire Joe Judge (Lansdale Catholic) and the Buffalo Bills Sean McDermott (La Salle). Must be that recruiting thing…….

  245. Frank G says:

    @ Michael R

    I think we have a chicken and egg situation here. I understand colleges cast their nets as widely as possible. But I think the quality of the coaching varies a whole lot from high school to high school and to a considerable degree the more successful the program the better the coaching–though of course I realize that there are very good coaches in HS programs that don’t have winning records let alone state championships. I’m thinking of kids who come to high school without a lot of experience playing organized football–and that might be a majority these days–and who because of size or body type become linemen. I’d argue it’s a big advantage for those kids to have good players/models ahead of them, longer seasons (because their teams go deeper into the playoffs), high standards that are clear and achievable, and coaches who can help them reach those standards–through all four years of high school. And of course it’s also helpful if they go to a school that will prepare them academically so that their choice of college is wide and they are truly able to be academically successful in college.

    If we look at which high schools produce the largest number of student-athletes with college scholarships we can argue about how much of a factor the particular high school was and how much of a factor the underlying talents were. Adolescence can be a difficult and sometimes a dangerous period. Parents have to decide (among other things) which school will help their sons come out in the best situation on the other side.

  246. 4th and Long says:

    Michael, 100% agree about a kid leaving a public school for a better academic situation. Often the reasoning is just athletic, but that’s really neither here nor there… it’s still the family’s choice. I’m not 100% sold on the total separation like NJ, but having lived there, I don’t see how it’s been bad for the public schools either. Non-boundary recruiting based on athletics is rampant in SE PA and while there might be a few “dog bites man” instances of boundary schools skirting the rules, those same rules make it perfectly legal for non-boundary schools to recruit. How much worse can it get for public schools who are already surrounded by privates that are constantly whispering in their best athletes ears?

  247. Michael Robbs says:

    @4th and Long it will hurt public schools because when you separate ie NJ and MD the gloves come off and recruiting will now become an open accepted process and you will see what has happened in Maryland and New Jersey. I get district 1/12 argument to a degree a kid from Garnet Valley going to St. Joes Prep, like WTH. My disagreement is where a kid from the Philly public schools going to a PCL or an Allentown SD kid going to ACC or Beca. How in the world can we blame these kids for leaving school districts like that for private schools that are going to help them change their future in a positive way? And I don’t mean football scholarships, I am taking and preparedness for college, which you are not going to get in those school districts, and anybody who argues that is ignorant, they are bettering there situation. I am not a private school guy, but I understand both sides of the argument, and I honestly think that people on the private school side are just as ridiculous. If you only see one view and cannot step away to see the other side of the argument, then it is just ignorance.

    @Frank G you could not be more wrong about being recruited by lower-level schools. All Division 1 schools from Ohio St to Temple to Villanova to Bucknell buy recruiting reports from companies such as CSD, National Preps, XO’s, etc all companies which do not charge kids or their families. They get these names by calling, emailing, and visiting every high school and getting prospective names from the actual high school coaches. Often times (a majority of the time) HS coaches see their kids as playing at a higher level than the kid can actually play at. So what happens is an HS coach will think one of his players is a D1 kid and when evaluated by college coaches they do not see him as a D1 kid, that is when the argument usually becomes well I didn’t go D1 because of my team. 99.9% of HS players end up at the level they should be playing at or a level above where they should be playing. The other .1% of players that we hear about from D2 and D3 schools going to the NFL were oftentimes not developed coming (body type-wise) coming out of HS and were developed in 5 years of college football. D2 and D3 schools visit almost every school in the state during December and January. I can assure you no college coach would ever not stop into a school to see a kid because of where they play football. Those are just facts.

    And my point is as above and I am using a hypothetical is a kid from Garnet Valley does not need to go to St. Joes Prep or AB Wood to get a college scholarship.

  248. 4th and Long says:

    Michael, why do you think separating publics and privates would hurt public schools? Kind of funny that those on the forum in favor of separating them seem to be from the SE districts (1/11/12) while those opposed seem to either be fans of PCL programs or from another part of the state. Unless you’re from those districts, I think it’s hard to understand what it’s like for the boundary schools there. As we speak, eight of the top teams in the Philly Inquirer’s SE PA boys basketball poll are non-boundary programs. While having separate boundary/non-boundary state champions probably isn’t palatable, maybe there are other solutions.

  249. 4th and Long says:

    D3 Mike, West Catholic is AA and Aliquippa is A playing up to AAA.

  250. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Still all this talk about Southern Columbia. The beat goes on and off the field. Makes me want to buy a Championship T-shirt from the tiny school nestled between two cornfields. From a Dunmore bucks fan.

  251. Frank G says:

    @ Michael R

    You’re right that Fleming gets recruited regardless of his high school team. But good programs with good coaches can really help kids who play less high-profile positions (i.e. linemen, defensive backs, etc.) improve their skills and get noticed. They rarely wind up in the SEC or the Big Ten, but their chances of getting offers from Bucknell, or Colgate, or Sacred Heart, or Maine, or … are higher.

  252. Brian says:

    The argument with the transfer rule isn’t the actual transfers. It’s the fact that any new kid on the roster is considered a transfer. Freshmen not varsity last year, 8th graders now freshmen on varsity, a kid who didn’t play in 10th or 11th but this year decides to go out for football are all considered transfers. Now all the coaches at schools who have reached the success points have to appeal that because They will all be over the limit of transfers due to new names on rosters. Don’t get me started on success points. A team like Lackawanna trail who didn’t win a stars title during this cycle, but because they went far in playoffs they would need to move up if they are over the transfer limit but a team like Farrell who has won back to back state titles would not need to move up if they were under the transfer limit. The idea is a good one but the guidelines used to determine it doesn’t make sense.

  253. Michael Robbs says:

    Certainly Southern Columbia is one of the best programs in modern day and Pa football history. I’m really asking this question, was is it even fun for Southern Columbia this year? They clearly saw this group coming as a special group, with a Division 1 QB a class ahead (a kid who did not live in soco sd btw). Why didn’t two years ago they decide to move up and play 3 or 4A for 2 years with this group coming through? I personally think they would have won every class except 6A this year. And I honestly don’t think it would have been close.

    Anybody who thinks that private schools don’t have it easier are crazy. But I guess my question is what are private schools selling or recruiting kids on? I can assure you that you do not need to be on a winning team or play in a certain league to be recruited. It is almost impossible to be under recruited in today’s day and age. Julian Fleming could have played for a 1A school somewhere in north central pa for an 0-10 team and Ohio St would have recruited him. If you don’t believe that you are naive and do not understand recruiting. So what are they selling them? Poor facilities? Paying tuition? No home stadium? Wearing a uniform every day? Success recruits itself. Kids were coming from all over to play for George Curry and Mike Pettine, because the success recruits itself. In today’s day and age with social media all of these kids are friends it’s not the traditional way everyone grew up, the kids “recruit” each other at private and yes at public schools too.

    The worst thing this state could do is separate public and private, it would be a huge mistake. One that would hurt the public schools much more than the privates.

  254. D3 Mike says:

    Brian, 2015 was the last time PA had 4 classes for football. That year, Southern Columbia played in 2A and went 16-0 en route to winning the state title. The last four teams they beat in the playoffs were Montoursville, Berks Catholic, West Catholic, and Aliquippa. Those four programs spent the past four years in 3A, 4A, 3A and 4A, respectively.

    So when I say I think SCA should have “played up” it is partly because they already PROVED that they could beat the elite 3A schools, and beat them without a superclass stacked with D1 players. It was their choice to stay at their enrollment for 2016-2019; I just would have made a different choice, especially considering the talent they had coming up (the argument about them having to play at 4A in 2020 if they had made that decision is moot; no AD knew about the transfer rule when those class choices were made. And they’d be fine in 4A, anyway).

    And here we are, 63-1 and 3 mercy rule state titles later, and SCA is STILL trying to avoid 3A… where they may have to face in the 2020 district and state title games **gasp**… Montoursville and Aliquippa? Do you see where I’m getting at here? They’ve spent decades playing these programs. They won what is now 3A in 2015. They probably would have won 3A from 2016 thru 2019. They’ll be preseason #1s in 3A in 2020… but (some of) the program/fans are still whining about the transfer rule and spouting nonsense about “participation trophies”? I just don’t get it. Good luck with the appeal, I guess.

  255. Brian says:

    You’re entitled to that opinion. A team that has the ability to pull kids into their program without a boundary is going to have a better chance winning. I’m not saying wood had any but I do know several other schools in the Philly Catholic League had athletes on their team from out of state as far as Texas. I believe one kid won a state title in New Jersey and since their season ended earlier transferred into a school in the PCL to try and win a state title in PA. When the PIAA doesn’t have the rules in place to prevent that it’s easier to win. I believe some athletes even play at one school for one sport and then transfer into another school for another sport season. As regards to Southern not playing up I remember when they were in class A they were told that if they played in AA they’d never win there because they’re just a small school a small school football doesn’t count. They’ve been in AA for 6 years now and have won 4 state titles and lost in the state title game another year. Now people say move up to AAA or 4A and yes this group could’ve played up 2 classes and probably won some of those years and with the success factor rule now, If that was the case this in coming group would maybe need to play 5A. That would be greatly unfair to this group that wouldn’t be able to compete because they’re not as close to being talented like this past once in a lifetime group. There are few 4A and no 5A schools in their area. There are several teams that have a case for team of the decade and Wood is definitely one of them. However I will always pick a public school over a private school and that’s just my opinion.

  256. Brian says:

    You are allowed to have your opinion Kevin X.

  257. Kevin X says:

    @ Brian

    Mmm, sorry, I’d have to go with Wood for that hypothetical team of the decade. I had to use two hands to count the number of state championship won, and that would be six. And by the way, the most recent 3 were all won by “playing-up” in classification, a foreign concept in SCA Nation. Just curious tho, that gaudy regular season record that you quoted, outside of this past season, how many of those games were played outside of District 4??

  258. Frank G says:

    @Jeff H You say that the dominance of a few teams is not good for the health of the sport in the state. Maybe that’s true, but I wonder if it applies to all classes. I also wonder if SJP’s success in the last seven years (five state championships and one other appearance in the final) is really a reason District 11 has been down and District 7 has had, according to some, fewer strong teams than it used to have. And would Neshaminy, Pennsbury, North Penn, etc. be better if SJP were weaker? I’m not asking because I’m sure the answer is “no”, but I need some convincing the answer is “yes”.

  259. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, WarMeaks and phillyboy……..dang guys, all very well stated. Much appreciated, you all saved me a ton of typing 🙂

  260. WarMeaks says:

    Like I said, a few years ago, Wood was absolutely 6A. New coach, new philosophy. He coaches whomever shows up.
    All the “recruiting” nonsense is overblown bs. If he’s recruiting, he’s not very good at it, otherwise, they’d have more kids.

    To me, the difference between 1A-4A is minimal. The biggest jump in class is from 5 to 6.
    Any team in 6A is being sacrificed to SJP moving forward. Who Wood plays every year in the pcl and hasn’t beaten recently.

    Happy New Year EPA forum peeps !

    We all know District 7 runs the piaa.

  261. Brian says:

    Team of the decade Southern Columbia Tigers. 138-9 record. 97-3 regular season record. 9 district titles. 2 PIAA runner up titles. 4 state titles. Currently on a 48 game win streak. Currently on an 86 game regular season win streak. Now the incoming class needs to keep the tradition going.

  262. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, not exactly. If they had lost to Gateway they would have still played in 2 state semi-finals this cycle. That’s 6 points and enough to move up regardless.

    Warmeaks, no, most of those 28 games were not against D12 and overmatched D11 schools. 11 were. Here is the list of ALL PIAA games (so no D12) for Wood this decade:

    2010 Strath Haven 24-14 (4-time state finalist)
    2011 Pottsgrove 44-21
    2012 Interboro 35-7
    2013 Academy Park 42-14
    2013 Berwick 42-14 (7-time state finalist)
    2014 Great Valley 44-7
    2014 Somerset 63-20
    2014 Central Valley 33-14 (2-time finalists)
    2016 Whitehall 56-13
    2016 Academy Park 37-0
    2016 Harrisburg 37-10 (2-time finalists)
    2017 Wyoming West 41-14
    2017 Unionville 49-29
    2017 Gateway 49-14 (1-time finalist)
    2018 Hollidaysburg 38-7
    2018 ** Penn Hills 13-20 (2-time finalist) **
    2019 Southern Lehigh 41-7
    2019 Gateway 24-21 (1-time finalist)
    2019 Cheltenham 19-15 (1-time finalist)

    So in the PIAA playoffs this decade, Wood went a combined 18-1 against public schools. That’s against DISTRICT WINNING boundary programs, many of them 13-0 and 14-0, some of whom have PLAYED FOR OR WON STATE TITLES. These are NOT overmatched D12 publics. These are 18 wins against elite boundary programs in Pennsylvania, and Wood stomped them by an average score of 40-13. It’s clear from these results that if they are still recruiting and winning at level X that they need to be moved up to level X+1. I don’t think “net transfers” is a bad idea to account for the outflow of talent but I mean, really guys. Look at those results. This isn’t the program for which you should be grasping the violin.

    And to echo Kevin… Happy New Year’s everyone!

  263. Kevin X says:

    ….and not to go out on a sour note for the year, based on my last post, so Happy New Year’s all!!!

    I enjoyed (for the most part) reading your opinions and your personal, inside and local information. See you all next year!!!

  264. Kevin X says:

    This is copy and paste from Twitter (my version of a retweet) from Jeff Reinhart, high school sports reporter out of Lancaster. Unfortunately, I think he is spot on with this. As I have once again transitioned from live football games to live local high school basketball games, both boys and girls (actually, more girls games) I’ve been noting this more and more. Maybe it’s the cozy confined indoor quarters of a high school gym, which enhances this nonsense, but I could say it also translates to the few soccer, field hockey, lacrosse and baseball games that I have attended recently. Football is no exception. You guys are going back and forth with the success factor stuff, the age old private vs. public debate, recruiting, whining about unfair advantages, etc., but I think this may be the biggest under the radar issue across all of high school sports in this state rate now, the boorish behavior of fans (from choice of language right up to shootings) and the current, and will most likely get worse, shortages of officials. I get why they have no interest or quit. Why deal with this crap??

    “This close to a column about fan behavior at high school basketball games. And remember, I cover girls games. Not that it matters either way but … I can see why referees simply don’t want to do this. It’s brutal.”

  265. Jeff H says:

    I find it amusing you guys use the term “punished” for schools being forced to move up due to long term success with multiple state titles. Those that are successful in life challenge themselves, and when a school dominates a particular classification for years, particularly the lower classifications, it is entirely logical to challenge yourself and your team by playing tougher competition in the playoffs, and should in no way be viewed as punishment to the kids. You SCA fans act as if its your birthright to get to Hershey every year, just another game on the schedule. It seems obvious to neutral observers like myself who have followed football statewide for decades that certain programs should play in a higher classification commensurate with their stature as one of the elite programs in the state, I made the same argument to guys on the western board for years about Erie Prep, I just don’t think a school with their rich history and tradition should be playing in 4A, and the same can be said about SCA in 2A.

    What I don’t agree with is forcing schools to move up that have never won a state championship, or have not won one in recent memory, like Lackawanna Trail and Wilmington, for example. I also have reservations about schools that are voluntarily playing up already being forced to play in a higher class, and yes that includes Wood. They could have easily lost to either Gateway in the semi-finals or Cheltenham in the final, and they most definitely got a big break when Derrick Davis was unable to play, if he plays and is 100% Gateway likely wins that game and we’re not even having this conversation about Wood. Now if Wood continues to have dominant teams like that had in 16-17 that were head and shoulders better than everyone else in 5A then yes, they should play in 6A, but based on their teams from the last 2 years, and the fact they are already playing up a class, I don’t think they should be forced to play up for the next 2 year cycle, if they were to stay in 5A and win the next 2 titles I would probably feel differently for the following cycle.

    For those of you not paying attention high school football is on the decline in this state and many other states, with much lower participation rates, and the overall talent level has dropped considerably in this state, and for a few schools to continue to dominate year after year is not good for the sport in general, all I’m saying is take a look at the big picture and don’t focus on your individual school that you are affiliated with.

  266. Santa says:

    From the North Pole santa wishes everyone a merry Christmas. Looking down from the North Pole at my point of view I believe they should let southern drop back down to single A after the hit from graduation. We all would hate to see them play in a state championship game in which they don’t mercy rule there opponent by half. Santa votes sca for single A to keep things competitive. Have a merry Christmas and happy new year

  267. WarMeaksWa says:

    I appreciate everyones opinions, but again, specifically for Wood,
    They are 4A by enrollment.
    Not every student goes there to play football. Believe it or not.
    Probably 2A by roster size.
    Only had 32 kids dressed for the title game. Not because their wasn’t enough room on the bus, but because thats all they had.
    Had to cancel their last jv game because they didnt have enough healthy kids.
    Catholic school enrollments are in a downward spiral. At one point Archbishop Ryan was the largest school in the country. Now I hear they are moving down to 4 or possibly 3A.
    Judge is also moving down to 5A.
    If Wood goes up to 6a, Judge would be the lone pcl 5a team and get 2 byes in the playoffs. Would play ppl champ in the round of 16. Thats a joke. Like I said before, they need to get rid of district 12 at the 5A level.
    Someone said wood is 27-1 in the playoffs. Most of those are against bad d12 teams and overmatched d11 schools.
    5 years ago, I would agree, they were a 6A team. They are nowhere near that level nowadays. Just a solid 5A team.
    Won last 2 games by a total of 7 points. Scored in final seconds to win both.
    Its not like they steamrolled their way to a championship. They earned it the hard way.

    Where do the successful 6A schools go?
    SJP, PCC, Central Dauphin, etc
    Pine Richland is the only team in the state to beat The Prep in the last 3 years and they are moving down. ???????????

  268. phillyboy says:

    Dag, D3 Mike, if that’s your last post of the year you went out with a bang. I must say, earlier in the year IMO you had the one liner of the year when you said, paraphrasing, ‘Nowadays players would rather sign up with Mater Dei, Alabama or the New Enlgand Patriots rather than try to beat them.’ — that was awesome.

    To Southern Columbia nation: just got to get something off my chest, why are you guys so defensive about staying at the 2A level? In case anybody was curious about phillyboy’s take on this, I absolutely think the Tigers should have played up, big time. Did you want me to lie to you and tickle your ears or tell you the truth?! Flat out, SC should have played 6A for this past 2 year cycle. I even posited this idea a long time ago, to no avail. It’s not my fault you guys didn’t consult with phillyboy or at least privately heed his generous advice. Yes, everybody knows they’re a 2A team and have a phenomenal program and all that. I disagree with the premise that it’s a punishment to have to class up. Meanwhile a lot of people suspected that this particular group was special. Should have ambitiously gone for it, at least for this cycle. This team was awesome, 100% phillyboy approved. For all intents and purposes it was a foregone conclusion they would romp through the schedule just like they did. So why not seize the opportunity when everything lined up just so. It’s very possible they might have beaten Prep had they played. Las Vegas odds so to speak, Prep would be favored but I DO think they could have won this hypothetical game. Yes, there’s a risk involved, but you got to pay to play, higher risk higher reward. There’s a chance they could have failed and wound up with no state chip at all. In that case you know you would have won the 2A title, but now you’ll never know if you might have done something really special. Could have been watching a movie about this team a few years down the road.

  269. 4th and Long says:

    I agree with both Frank and D3 Mike. SCA, I’m not necessarily a fan of the “success formula” and understand your point. In my observation, dominant public school programs are the result of three things 1) a good coaching staff 2) a group of good football players and 3) a community where football is part of the culture. If you’re missing any of the above, you’re only going so far. The problem is you now also need freedom from having “your” best kids leave for a variety of private schools. Consider yourself lucky regarding the location of Southern Columbia, or things would likely be a lot different. It only takes a few kids leaving to drastically change a program. On another note, why not just have one classification and play for one state champion if that’s what we think it’s all about?

  270. SCA Fan says:

    Well said WarMeaks. Agree 100% Forcing SCA and these other schools to move up. Why? Because their players and coaching staff work harder and prepare better than their opponents? Why do we punish KIDS for outworking their opponents. How can you punish the next class of kids for what the classes before them did. They don’t deserve to be moved up because of what the classes before them accomplished. THEY’RE ALL DIFFERENT. They deserve the same chance not punished. Everyone just wants to see the successful programs lose so they come up with new rules to try to get them out. Ridiculous! Its not youth soccer where everyone gets a participation trophy. Instead of punishing the successful programs how about the other programs stepping it up instead of crying about it. If you cant run with the big dogs then you dont deserve to be in Hershey. Last time I checked the NCAA didn’t make Alabama or Clemson move up to the NFL because they won multiple championships!!

  271. D3 Mike says:

    I was blessed to have parents (and grandparents) who sacrificed to send me to parochial school for 13 years. And yes, the academic, character, and tuition requirements winnow the field of potential applicants. But the fact that Archbishop Wood has gone 27-1 this decade IN THE PLAYOFFS against elite boundary schools which, by everyone’s own admission HAVE GREATER ENROLLMENTS should end all discussion on this topic. If you really believe that year after year, class after class, Wood athletes just “work harder” and the program simply “outcoaches” all ONE HUNDRED opposing programs in 5A that all have larger enrollments than they do, you reside in a faux meritocratic fantasy land.

    The kids at Wood work very, very hard. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone who said otherwise. But so do the kids at lots of other schools. The Wood coaching staff is outstanding – among the best in the state. But so are the staffs at other schools. Wood competes for a state championship, literally every year, because they have all of the above – AND they do it with better players. Same with Prep. They’re pulling from a population pool of millions to build their teams (whether they recruit or not, it’s irrelevant). I’d never say they didn’t 100% earn their titles but let’s call a spade a spade. The PCL programs where the talent concentrates – IF they work hard – should beat ANY boundary program in 5A or 6A. That’s just how genetics and demographics work based on any reasonable appraisal of the concepts.

  272. Frank G says:

    @ 4th and Long
    I don’t think anyone would argue with you that it’s an apples and oranges situation or that there are clear advantages to not having boundaries. But many if not most of the private schools have some disadvantages or constraints that the public schools don’t have. 1) Many don’t have their own home fields or even an on-site practice fields. 2) Some have academic requirements that exclude some applicants from ever enrolling and that sometimes result in student athletes leaving, usually during or after freshman year. 3) All apply fees, aka tuition. Some think all or most student-athletes have their fees waived. In fact, most families of student-athletes must pay substantial fees. What makes the situation complicated is that most private schools also have needs-based financial aid programs, and it’s no surprise that a relatively high proportion of the families of student-athletes qualify for such programs. Some schools also get donations that enable them to increase the amount of support for the families of students who play certain sports. But the point is that just about every family–and my guess is that there are no exceptions–that sends a son to a private school winds up paying hundreds and often thousands of dollars a year (for books, for transportation, etc. in addition to actual tuition amounts) that they would not have to pay if their son went to a public school. There is an argument that this sacrifice increases their sense of investment in the school and the program.

    It’s also the case that not having boundaries is more of an advantage to some private schools (because their locations allow them to draw from a wider pool, e.g. SJP) than it is to others (e.g. Bishop McDevitt).

    The boundary vs non-boundary issue plays out differently depending on the sport. I think just about everyone would agree that for most sports (e.g. soccer, baseball, track, wrestling, swimming, cross-country, etc) it’s not a big issue.

    As for football, I wonder for how many of the six classifications it’s a real problem. If it’s only one or at most two, is it worth making a big change? And if, say, boundary schools win the 6A championship in ’20 and’21 are we likely to hear as much complaining? One thing that seems certain is that if they separate boundary and non-boundary schools we will see the old debates, such as the one in ’03 about whether SJP or NP was better, resurface.

  273. mark d says:

    i have been told that SCA will scrimmage Valley View next year as both team are looking for a tougher scrimmage

  274. 4th and Long says:

    WarMeaks, few have an issue with kids going to the best opportunity for their particular situation, but let’s get real. Many private schools recruit athletes. Public schools generally have to play with the kids within their boundaries.I want to take nothing away from the great coaches and players at the privates, but the playing field is not level. Boundary schools outnumber non-boundary schools roughly 8:1, yet the ratio of state championships and FBS athletes skews much more heavily in favor of non-boundaries. if you want to believe it’s strictly because of coaching and hard work, that’s your right, but it’s a slap in the face to the kids and coaches busting their tails trying to do more with less talent at a typical public school. I agree the success formula is less than perfect (putting it mildly) and I have my own ideas about how to remedy the situation, but the PIAA isn’t asking us.

    On another note, PPL schools look like they’re full throttle filling out their 2020 FB out of conference schedules, so it appears what I heard about them waiting to settle whatever (if anything) is going on there to do out of conference scheduling was in error… mea culpa.

  275. David Mika says:

    Merry Christmas!

  276. Brian says:

    D3 Mike it’s also rumored southern will open at Berwick to start the season. I find it ironic Berwick waited until this group graduated to get this game. Berwick was decent the past few years and that game would’ve drawn a crowd. This will still draw a crowd too. Carrmie knows how to be Roth ask southern as well. I think he’s done it at Danville, shamokin, and mt. Carmel. Interesting to see if it takes place.

  277. Mcd65 says:

    Well said Frank G and WarMeaks..

  278. WarMeaks says:

    I read pennlives 50 players to watch list before championship weekend in hershey. You figure 12 schools, an average would be 4 kids per team listed.
    Wood had 1 player on the list. And they are 5A.
    Where are all these high profile transfers everyone seems so concerned about?
    Guess what? They dont have them!
    That screams of great coaching.
    These kids should be given the chance to defend next year, not punished for being too good.
    Hey Wood,
    Your kids lift too hard,
    Run too long,
    Practice too serious,
    Your coaches,
    Watch film too long,
    Game plan too well.
    Now go play schools with three times your enrollment and 2 times your roster size.
    What a great lesson.
    Breaking new: Everyone gets a state chip in 2020.
    When will the Ncaa move Mount Unuon into Div 2 and North Dakota St into the FBS? They also win too much.
    And Clemson should be in the NFL.
    And Uconn womens hoops should have been moved into the mens tournament long ago.

    Catholic Schools are few and far between nowadays, hence the extended boundaries, and guess what, it aint cheap to attend them. Thats a serious con, not a pro. It excludes a lot of kids. And anyone that thinks they can go to these schools for free because they are a great athlete, is just plain ignorant.

  279. FrankG says:

    @Phillyboy and Craig Jones You both seem to believe that kids who get coaching in a public elementary or middle school have an obligation to go to the local public high school and/or that their parents have an obligation to send them to the public high school. Is the main motive of the coaches to feed the public high school so it can field best team possible or is it to help the kids develop sport-specific skills and all the traits that come with playing a sport? The parents in question have an obligation to pay taxes that support the public school system, but they also have an absolute right to send their children to whatever school they choose. And the vast majority wind up paying tuition and other costs (which can be considerable) at the private/Catholic school.

    Many kids who go to Catholic elementary schools and many who play on CYO teams in various sports wind up going to and playing for public high schools. I’ve never heard anyone complain about that, and if I did I’d say they were wrong to do so.

  280. The Joneses says:

    @craig Jones the flaw in your logic “Easton and the public schools have programs, the catholic and privates are finishing schools” assumes these schools only do well because of students coming from public to private Catholic schools. It does not take in consideration the number of students who were never in public school, the work the student puts in outside of school and the coaching, training received at the Catholic/Private schools. We are have certainly watched talented teams loose or be underachieve because the coaching is poor.

    While Kyle Pitts was at Abington HS (public) they tried to make him a QB on offense because he was one if not the most athletic player on on team. He didn’t have the interest or head for it, less he was wasting away. He transfers to Wood and the rest is history in the making. Is he at FL and looking like a NFL prospect is he stays at Abington? I for one wouldn’t risk my sons future trying to find out. That finishing put him on a greater path.

  281. The Joneses says:

    @Phillyboy Let me get this straight. You want a child to give up the opportunity attend a school placing them in a better situation than their current one for “the greater good”? Who’s greater good, the PIAA? The people who are angry at the top teams for winning? Is “all about my glory” referring to educational and recruiting benefits or playing for a program with high academic greater exposure to top tier scouts. The deeper team goes in the playoffs the more opportunity to be seen by coaches.

  282. phillyboy says:

    @ Craig Jones– Appreciate your sentiments, well said. Respectfully disagree with D3 Mike on this one. It’s a situation where a little righteous indignation is understandable. It’s a joke, you put in all the blood, sweat and tears and then someone comes along and cherry picks your best fruit. Either that or the kid decides to go to the ‘finishing school’ forgetting any semblance of loyalty, it’s all about my glory at this point, not the greater good. Btw, major respect to the Easton program — didn’t they have a team somewhere around 2000 that was the #1 ranked team in the nation or close to it, don’t know if that was a misconception of mine or what. I grew up in South Jersey in the 80’s, public teams like Paulsboro, Absegami, Phillipsburg were legendary. Even Jackson Memorial (by Great Adventure) had several individual state champions. Nowadays seems like Camden Catholic, Bergen Catholic and several other North Jersey privates greedily gobble up all the elite wrestlers to a large extent. It’s a joke.

  283. D3 Mike says:

    Mike Drago reporting that Wyomissing and Southern Columbia have agreed to an October 3rd game next year. If SCAs class-up holds, that could be a preview of the 3A eastern final. Props to both schools for scheduling what should be great inter-district action.

  284. D3 Mike says:

    Craig, in summary: in the past, you coached ten-year-old boys hoping that they would eventually wrestle for the local high school team. Then, when some left for athletic, academic, or social reasons – or, maybe just because their parents always intended to send them to Catholic high schools – you proceeded to hold grudges against children?

    Take solace in this statement: when you stopped coaching (AKA selflessly donating your time), youth wrestling in the greater Lehigh Valley area was forever changed.

  285. Craig A Jones says:

    I read all the comment’s below and let me tell you my main problem with the catholic and private (charter} schools. I used to coach youth wrestling, I did so because I thought the kids I was coaching were going to be Easton wrestlers. Naïve I know. But, after seeing them being developed by the Easton system. (some were also gifted football players) many transferred to the privates. Then I have to hear from Notre Dame and Bethlehem Catholic what great programs they have. Easton and the public schools have programs, the catholic and privates are finishing schools, building on what the public schools developed. Look at Notre Dame wrestling this yr, not 1 kid came thru a CYO type league. They ought to thank the public schools for developing all these great athletes for them. Let me repeat they are not PROGRAMS but finishing schools. By the way if your wondering I didn’t go watch any of the kids I coached who transferred on the high school level. Petty, maybe, but I didn’t donate my time for a kid to transfer to a private school.

  286. Phil Myers says:

    I agree with D3 Mike and have always alluded to the idea of a straight ‘Success Factor’. If you are successful you move up for the next cycle. No appeals, no nothing, you move up. This would automatically envelope those schools that have transfers and are successful. The point of it being the top programs who are pretty much successful year in and year out move up. No one has to change their conference or even their regular season schedule, they just play up for the playoffs, period. No one, but the schools affected, is going to complain. And probably half the schools affected are not going to say much either. Is there any question that SoCol, Farrell, Erie Prep, etc should not move up with a straight success factor? No. But, tying in transfers they just convoluted things and it makes the PIAA look silly.
    An argument against the success factor, which by the way works well where it’s been installed, is that the school is going to play larger enrollment schools. That should only be true for the playoffs unless the district makes you change your regular season schedule. Secondly, if you won states or went to states a couple years in a row, obviously you can compete. Besides, most of the schools we are talking about have more kids on the roster than most schools they play during the season, so enrollment has nothing to do with it or else Reading and Butler would have great football teams. Another argument is that it was the senior class that succeeded. Maybe it’s the occasional case, but most of the time SoCol, Farrell, TJ, Erie Prep, McDevitt, etc. are going to be good year after year. If say a Wyoming has to move up for 2 years, they’d move back down if not successful. Again, for the regular season it does not have to be a completely different schedule and in most districts it would not be.
    Six classes are here to stay. No question about that. I believe a straight up success factor is the next step to try to level the playing field so to speak. No questions about public vs. non-public schools. The Success Factor plays no favorites. It is what it is and life goes on. Maybe coaches, ADs, and players can contact their PIAA rep or reps and get them on board?

  287. JerrySpringer says:

    After reading comments, my final thought is you will always have the haves and have nots, no matter what the PIAA does it will be unfair to someone. There are just too many factors year in and year out that can effect teams. Everyone made valid points but balance and fairness is inherently impossible. I was always of the mindset of having one class crazy I know but to me the least interference is the most fair. Or if schools really are that upset leave the PIAA for that respective sport and start your own league or play an independent schedule.

  288. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Curious to hear your thoughts on the other point JC made, that of Wood and Imhotep also having to play up (he seems fine with it). I agree with both you and JC on the Quip situation, but where are you with Wood and Imhotep??

    Also, feel free to correct this, but several years ago I saw on this board that the reason Aliquippa is playing up to 3A had to do with being able to stay in the same similar conference that they were playing in prior to the PIAA going to 6 classifications. Supposedly the WPIAL makes the rules out there (believe you mentioned that when it comes to scheduling) and that they form the conferences as well. If Aliquippa stayed as an “A” classification, they would be playing other schools in a different conference, and they wanted to remain geographically near the teams and rivals that they have been long associated with. They seem more than able to compete and hold their own at the 3A level, but the decision to play there (3A) was not so much of a competitive angle, but more more of a continuity/historical issue. Not my words, just repeating what I remember seeing here previously.

  289. mark d says:

    wait every freshman moving up to the varsity is a transfer ???? That makes no sense shouldn’t that be part of you size number how many males are in the school ??? how are they transfers they been going to that school . As for the non boundary school moving i have no problem with that. they can recruit they can get kids from anywhere a team like Aliquippa plays up all ready and they can get kids form Aliquippa only !

  290. D3 Mike says:

    The PIAA had good intentions with the success factor but dropped the ball on specifics. Then they made it worse with poor execution. Winning got mixed up with transfer restrictions, and then the rules were applied, retroactively. What a mess.

    The new transfer rule was already having an impact. They should have just added a straight success factor like many other states have done and kept the transfer issue separate.

    As it stands, this rule is far too top heavy. It should apply to more than 1-2 programs per class. Just watch the whack-a-mole that is 4A as ECP and Imhotep are forced up… leaving the door open to McDevitt and Beca to dominate this cycle… before getting forced up, themselves, just in time for ECP and Imhotep to drop back down.

    Not to mention that for all we know, Farrell had 3 transfers while Clairton and Guilfoyle each had 10. It shouldn’t just be schools with 6 points in a cycle getting penalized if this rule truly intends to limit transfers.

  291. Kevin X says:

    Wonder how many of these “successful” schools/teams will actually just “Man-up” and say “bring it on, let’s play some football!!!”

  292. Brian says:

    Jeff H you do realize that Southern played the AAA champ Wyoming area in the regular season (week 8) and won 42-0 and also Montoursville, state semi finalist that lost to Wyoming area in week 9 and beat them 35-0. So yes they would’ve mercy ruled their way through AAA this year too. Southern was blessed with their D1 talent this past 4 years so don’t expect them to
    Mercy rule everyone next year. They may be successful but it won’t be like the past several years. This graduating group could’ve played in a higher class but the future classes won’t be able to. That would be so bad if southern would’ve played 3A or 4A the past cycle and earned the success points and were bumped to 5A for the next group because next years group would get killed in 5A. Let’s face it southern beat jersey shore mercy rule and jersey shore was a semi finalist so Southern would’ve reached the success factor in 4A as well. They would have to play in 5A next year with a new group. They would have to play in some type of district sub regional because there are no 5A teams in D4 and then matchup with an archbishop Wood after that. Totally unfair for next years group.

  293. PCL Fan says:

    A few things here:


    This article states that every single new name on a varsity roster is considered a transfer. So anyone new that joins the team, or any freshman player moving up to the varsity roster is considered a transfer. This is a very backwards way to handle this.


    Here the article is confirmed. Every team with over 6 points has been informed they will need to move up based on an appeal.


    Here is another article that shows the PIAA changed the number of allowed transfers in the middle of the football season. Originally when this formula was announced in 2018 Five transfers were allowed for football. Shouldn’t an effective change be made before the season begin?

  294. JC says:

    There are a few issues with your response. You talk about jumps in enrollment between classes. What’s not important is the numerical increase, but the percentage increase. The jump from 3A to 4A is 45%. The jump from 1A to 3A is 112%. The jump from 1A to 4A is 209%. The enrollment parameters themselves are set up to approximate general percentage ranges, so talking about pure numbers is completely irrelevant.

    I do not have significant quibbles with private vs. public. I think it is ultimately best to keep the playoffs combined, and all teams should be subject to the same success factor rules. The transfer rule clearly needs some tweaking. However, when it comes to appeals, I do think Aliquippa deserves more sympathy for already playing up 2 classes voluntarily, than Wood or Imhotep do for voluntarily playing up one class.

  295. Rob says:


    Actually your logic isn’t sound at all. You’re doing a bad job of using other topics to cover up the fact that your issue is a private vs public issue. The rule being talked about is transfers + success in the classification you currently play in, so Aliquippa having a case and Wood/Tep not having a case makes no sense in that regard. As far as playing up two classes? The jump from 3A to 4A is almost the same in enrollment numbers as the jump from 1A to 3A. The jump from 4A to 5A is actually a bigger enrollment number jump.

    So instead of using bad points/arguments, why not just come out and say this is a private vs public issue? St Joe’s Prep, Wood, Imhotep, Erie Cathedral have been dominating the 6A 5A and 4A classifications and people are tired of it. All year I have read people say Wood will have a down year this year, they only have 35 kids on the roster, someone on here even said they would finish under 500 this season. And then they go and win it all.

    In my opinion the transfer rule will probably end up hurting more than it will end up helping. Lets say Wood is forced to move up to 6A for the next two years. They get eliminated by Prep both years before the state playoffs even start so they’ll have no success points. When it comes time to reclassify they will either be a 3A team or a 4A team. Lets say they decide to stay in the same classification their enrollment numbers put them in. You really want to watch Wood go play a 3A schedule, then a 4A schedule, then finally back to a 5A schedule for two years each?

  296. Jut says:

    Looks like PIAA are doing something with success factor. Finally having teams play up to level out the classes. Which makes sense. If they didn’t want to level out the classes then why even have them? Just have one class. So this makes perfect sense to me. Having wood, SCA, Imhotep, Farrel all piling up a class with them making it to the final year in year out. Why not? Looks like Robert Nolan is alil mad SCA is moving up a class. Look buddy you we all know who Southern played last year we know their Schedule has plenty of Aaa,Aaaa teams. And yes they beat Wyoming a state champion. Look it only fair they move up a class. They will probably win AAA too but atleast they will play a whole game and not just til half time. It’s silly they mercy ruled like 40+ games in arow.

    No idea how PIAA are moving Lawanana Trial up to AA, confused by that. Made state finals once and not like they were unbeatable any of those years. But hey maybe they will give Dunmore a game in AA in district 2.

  297. Brian says:

    Hey Robert who is the other running back you speak of that are the two best in the state? I’m sure Gavin Garcia is one of them. Not sure who the other is that you mention. Also don’t be so sure southern is going to 3A. They are appealing because apparently PIAA considers any knew name on the roster as a transfer. So if you’re a freshmen and playing varsity that gets counted as a transfer. If you were 9th last year but not varsity and now in 10th you count as a transfer. Didn’t play football as a junior but going out for it your senior year, yep you’re a transfer. I think they say southern has like 37 transfers because of new kids from 8th or 9th grade. Now they have to send in all the paperwork to verify who is who. Apparently when it’s all said and done they’ll end up with 2 transfers in the previous cycle. Therefore they’ll stay 2A. Then again this whole success factor and transfer rule is so freaking confusing that I might not have it all straight either.

  298. WarMeaks says:

    Wood lost to district 7 champ Penn Hills in 2018 in the semis.
    Beat district 7 champ Gateway by 3 in the waning seconds this year. Gateway was without there was best player.
    I dont hear anyone clammoring for those schools to move up. Looks to me as if they’re right on par with those other 5a teams.
    Wood lost 3 games this year.
    Got mercied by Prep in the 1st half 42-0
    Lost to 6A Roman. 20-6
    Woods problem is that they waltz into the quarters every year. They have a bye into the round of 32 because there has only been 2 5a schools In the pcl.
    And they only have to beat a down Ryan program to advance to the sweet 16.
    Then they play the ppl 5a champ to advance to the quarter finals.
    The solution is to do away with district 12 at the 5a level and move them into district 1.

    The transfer thing is a joke. U can’t prevent a kid from transferring into your school. Everyone assumes a transfer is some ringer recruited to play football. Thats ludicrous. Sometimes its just life. Maybe the kid didnt like the school, or didnt have any friends, or his family moved. Whatever.
    Of woods 24 man freshman team last year, only 14 remain at the school. They are probably minus 8 in net transfers.

    Cant wait for the day coaches have to cut players from the football team because it may affect there class status. Is that what we want?

    Woods coaches deserve a ton of credit for taking a 35 or so man roster to the 5a state championship. Their o-line averaged about 210 lbs. And everyone acts like their some bully picking on smaller schools.
    They put in the work. Period.

  299. Jeff H says:

    In light of the new success factor/transfer rules applying to schools already voluntarily playing up like Aliquippa maybe SC was onto something by not playing up the last 2 years, had they played at 3A they would now be forced to play 4A for the next 2 yr cycle, when they will still be very good but won’t have nearly as much D1 talent as this years senior class. I was not aware until the last few days the new rule applied to schools that were already voluntarily playing up. Like others I do give the PIAA some credit for trying to address the problem and imbalances that exist, but I don’t necessarily agree with the way it applies to schools that are already voluntarily playing up, especially boundary schools.

  300. Mike A says:

    ‘I’m just excited to be back’: Newly approved Cumberland Valley football head coach Josh Oswalt eager to bring new energy, new scheme

    Oswalt said he plans to honor CV’s storied history as one of District 3’s most successful programs while bringing his own “flavor” to the team.That, in part, means a new offense.

    Oswalt will not adhere to the strict Wing-T offense the Eagles have run with success for decades. He’s known for a spread scheme he ran at Carlisle and Central York — turning Billy Burger and Eric Harris into two of the Mid-Penn’s top QBs while with the Herd and later grooming Cade and Beau Pribula with the Panthers — and many of those same concepts will come with him to the Eagles.

    But, Oswalt said, he will tailor the offense to his players once he meets with each of them individually in the coming days and weeks and assesses their skills. The Wing-T won’t entirely disappear, as Oswalt grew up in the system and runs some of his spread offense with Wing-T concepts, he said.

    “It’s gotta fit the kids,” Oswalt said. “And I think that’s why we’re so successful as a staff, we’re so good at identifying what worked for the kids.”

  301. Racer X says:

    Story in today’s Sunbury Daily Item about SCA moving up. Roth crying about it. What a joke, he said he only had two transfers the last two years. He is appealing it. I thought SCA could beat any body, any classification. There were posts on here about them beating SJP this year. Guess they feel better about putting 70 on AA teams. First game next year with Berwick. Coach Carm knows how to beat southern, he did it at Shamokin and I believe he was the last to beat them regular season when he was at Mt. Carmel in 2011.

  302. Jeff H says:

    @Robert Nolan – do you seriously believe it will be easier for Southern Columbia to win 3A than 2A? Since most of the teams they already play in the regular season are 3A or 4A why haven’t they been playing up voluntarily like Aliquippa has done for the last 3 decades. I do think they will be the favorite in 3A and will likely win the state title next year, but to say it will be easier for them to win 3A is a ridiculous statement, as both Wyoming and Central Valley were much better than any 2A team they have played in the playoffs the last few years.

    @JC – you are spot on, completely agree with your logic. Aliquippa is a 1A school with 117 boys, and have voluntarily been playing up for decades, 2A in the old 4 class system, and now 3A since the move to 6 classes. So a small public school does the right thing by playing up 2 classes commensurate with their outstanding long term tradition of excellence and they are punished by the new rules, only in the eyes of the PIAA does this make any sense whatsoever. I sincerely hope the PIAA has enough common sense to agree with their appeal, because forcing them to play 4A is ludicrous, they win 1 state title in 4yrs in 3A, and their neighbor schools in Beaver County can compete with them favorably, this is a classic case of if it’s not broke don’t try and fix it.

  303. The Joneses says:

    @Frank G yeah that’s what I thought/Think about any impact to the prep. Oddly enough it has the chance to push more kids there.

    @JC & Rob I have no sympathy for Wood or Imhotep, I think the PIAA will since they are by enrollment already playing up. Sure some schools play up two levels. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked either way.

  304. Foleman says:

    Robert Nolan, Wyomissing has 16 starters back next year, probably their best team since the State Championship team. They will give Southern Columbia some competition so I don’t think it will be easier for them to win AAA than AA next year. I can’t wait for the battle of the Wing T’S next year. You will also have Neuman Goretti to deal with and they are loaded with talent. I don’t know what the West has in AAA next year. Also, Pope John Paul is moving up to 4A in the East.

    The Joneses-St. Joe Prep wont skip a beat if the PCL leaves the PIAA, they have built a national powerhouse and they are also one of the top academic schools in the State, student athletes will continue to flock there for football.

  305. Kevin X says:

    @ Rob

    You saved me some typing.

    @ JC

    Your hoops point tho is spot on. Actually, probably not far enough. I’ve said this before, if the PIAA is going to separate public/private schools for playoff purposes in any sport, it should be for basketball (boys and girls).

  306. JC says:

    @Rob: Aliquippa is a boundary school playing up two classes. Imhotep and Wood are non-boundary schools playing up just one class. So, yes, Aliquippa has a case and Wood and Imhotep get no sympathy. I think my logic is perfectly sound.

  307. Frank G says:

    @ The Joneses The Prep will lose very little of its appeal to potential students/players if a separate PIAA classification is set up for private school or even is the PCL leaves the PIAA as long as it uses the extra space on its schedule to play other high-profile programs.

  308. Robert Nolan says:

    For all of the SCA haters out there you are going to get your wish. Southern will be playing in AAA next year which actually is a gift from the PIAA. SCA, for all of you who do not know, beat the AAA state champion during the regular season 42-0. Most of the teams they play during the regular season are AAA or AAAA so they are more than prepared for moving up. In fact, it will be easier for them to win in AAA than it was in AA. As for what they have coming back next year. They lose 17 seniors this year but have kids moving up who played half a varsity season last year as subs. They will have two of the best running backs in the state and an offensive line that will be second to none. Will they win a state title in 2020? I think a lot of people will be surprised. The Tigers are reloading and will be ready to take on all challengers next season.

  309. Rob says:

    JC – so Aliquippa has a case because they are already playing up?

    Wood and Imhotep get no sympathy……even though they are also playing up???

    Sound logic there

  310. Bucks County Football Fan says:

    Wood does have an appeal case in my opinion. They are 4A by enrolment that played up to 5A to begin with. Have less than 40 players combining JV and varsity. Had only 3 players transfer in, only 1 of which ever saw the field. Lost multiple starters including their leading rusher from 2018 to public school. Sounds like a solid case to me. People are being blinded by recent success and not giving the coaching staff credit the credit they deserve for getting everything they could out of a very small roster.

  311. JC says:

    Aliquippa has a potential appeals case, since they are already playing up from 1A. No sympathy for Wood or Imhotep, hope PIAA holds firm on those. Overall these moves would be an improvement over the current landscape, there is no cure-all solution but I gotta say, this whole success factor might work. Looking forward to seeing how it impacts basketball, which desperately needs the help.

  312. Kevin X says:

    I mentioned this as an impending mess not long ago. I was too kind…….

    “UPDATE FROM THE PIAA: “These 8 have the points and they have been identified as possibly having the amount of transfers. Appeals will be made at January board meeting”

    Bob Greenburg

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

  313. The Joneses says:

    Someone posted SJP would loose it’s recruiting edge by not playing for a PIAA state championship if the PCL left. I’ve seen it discussed here and knowing Prep strives for a National championship, as well as a state championship, does anyone think they will loose the edge?

  314. Tornado Fan says:

    From Bob Greenburg on Twitter:

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

  315. Kevin X says:

    Some copy and paste action from Twitter……..

    The 8 schools moving up per the PIAA Success factor pending appeals: (New Class)
    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    *Move up from current class

    I understand Wood is appealing. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Imhotep and Aliquippa doing the same. Let the fun and games begin!!!!!

  316. D3 Mike says:

    Per Bob Greenburg (D10 broadcaster), the 8 schools moving up per the PIAA success factor, pending January appeals:

    Farrell (2A)
    Lackawanna Trail (2A)
    Wilmington (3A)
    Southern Columbia (3A)
    Aliquippa (4A)* #
    Imhotep Charter (5A)*
    Cathedral Prep (5A)
    Archbishop Wood (6A)*

    * Move up from current class per PIAA success factor rules
    # Aliquippa’s loss to Central Valley was considered a “round-of-16” game by the WPIAL but is being considered a quarterfinal game by the PIAA, giving Aliquippa the requisite 6 success factor points for the cycle

    This is obviously unofficial but Bob is pretty reliable when it comes to his sources.

  317. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    I know nothing, forgot about the whole situation actually. Do you know if they just put out the same bid for the same work?? Meaning they appeared to want to reconstruct the whole stadium and area with the first proposal, and surprise surprise, bids came in way over estimate. Maybe they should look at doing things piecemeal and prioritize things. Think we can agree a new turf field might be the first priority.

  318. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    Thanks for the acknowledgment!! You can add Tyreek Chappell as another high profile player jumping from the PCL (Ryan) to Northeast.

    @ Mcd65 and Phillyboy

    Where are you guys getting that the PCL is looking to leave the PIAA (or saying that they should leave)?? Did I miss the memo?? I know there was some rumors on this board (I believe first presented by 4th and long) about the PPL maybe leaving the PIAA. I see no reason why they (PCL) would or should. They more than hold their own in many sports on a statewide basis, unlike the PPL. If anything, like I said before, they should divorce themselves from the PPL and District 12, grab a bunch of the smaller private schools in District One on their way out, and form their own district.

  319. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Per MaxPreps, there are four 8-man teams in PA. Two in the western Philly ‘burbs, the Perkiomen School, which I’m guessing is not far from K-Town, and one that I never heard of. So a few teams around, and not horrible travel. Just thought it might be an option, a fresh start, new beginnings, getting in on the ground floor, etc. I did see that K-Town is advertising for a new head football coach. So don’t know what exactly that means as far as the future of the program.

  320. Frank Gavin says:

    @ phillyboy ad Mcd65 I thought I submitted a reply yesterday, but maybe I neglected to hit “submit.”

    I’m sure the PCL could survive outside the PIAA. Whether it would thrive is another question–possible but not certain. The picture is different for different sports, and for most (e.g. soccer, wrestling, track, baseball, etc) I don’t think there’ve been any concerns about the PCL’s membership. I know basketball is different.–

    As for football, it’s clearing a fluid situation across the state. The number of schools dropping the sport could become more than a trickle in the next five years or so, and the gap between strong programs and weak ones could become even wider. I’d love to see some stats whether my sense that there are a lot more blowouts is correct. If it is correct, the gap is likely only to widen, accelerating the dropping of football by some schools–mostly public but some Catholic. This is one reason I don’t think things will return to the pre-2008 era if the PCL (and maybe other Catholic schools) leaves the PIAA.

    As for the PCL, it’s gone from southern/northern divisions, to red and blue, to four–or was it three classes–and then back to red and blue (with some schools changing colours) in the last 20 years or so. A couple of schools could close in the next five years and it’s possible one or two will drop football. Right now I’d be surprised if Ryan is playing in the Red for more than another year or so.

    If the PIAA creates separate classes for private schools, the Prep would still have a state championship to play for and at least a couple of more open dates on their schedule when they might choose to play more high-profile teams from DC or North Jersey or Ohio … Maybe they’d also play one or two Inter-ac teams. Not long ago they had some well-attended games against Malvern. And maybe some of the Jesuit schools that aren’t so far away (St. Peter’s in Jersey City, Gonzaga in DC. St. Ignatius in Cleveland–all schools with good teams that the Prep has already played) could organize a yearly series of games. The point is that the Prep doesn’t need the PIAA to attract attention to its program and its players–though they’d probably prefer to remain in the PIAA.

    The Prep could also decide not to put as much emphasis on football. It’s not Notre Dame with alumni and pretend-alumni making donations and buying gear in amounts closely tied to the football team’s W-L record. I suspect they will want to continue to have a strong, high-profile program, but it may be a very long time till there is another class with the equivalent of McCord, Harrison, Trotter, Hagens, Cooper, and Talley putting on their jerseys.

  321. D3 Mike says:

    Most of the stickiest problems related to high school football and basketball in this state would be resolved if D12 just left the PIAA, so if the PCL is leaving, you have to promise to take the charter schools with you 🙂 Seriously, the net benefits of statewide competition flow into the city, not back up the Main Line. I’ll never forget moving to Tacony in 2000 and the way everyone talked about PCL programs that, outside of Philly, no one on planet earth had ever heard of nor could have cared less about. And no one on Torresdale could find Berwick on a map. That’s your ideal?

    If you really think these young men and women would be better off reverting to the unbelievably parochial, insular athletic environment that existed prior to 2008, I’d say you shortchange the benefits of the PIAA that extend far beyond raw competition. Whining about transfers and tedious rules aside, diversity of experience for young people and their communities is actually a good thing. As adults, we should be pushing for more of that, not less.

  322. sausmann9 says:

    not sure what was so offensive about the link/article regarding Southern Columbia football and the explanation as to why they are who they are. but Allentown Morhning Call has the article and info.

  323. Buddy says:

    et al

    North Penn put out bids for a new stadium this month. Anybody hear anything?

    It’s got to get done. Stadium is an embarrassment.

  324. Mcd65 says:

    PhillyBoy, I mention those situations because not many on here know about them, I do want the PCL out of the PIAA as much as you do , BTW Notheast is building a solid program and have attracted other transfers as you probably know, The PCL will continue to be competitive with or without the PIAA, I think many fans are tired of all the nonsense , If the PCL does leave I look forward to the moaning about transfers between boundary schools and other unfair advantages some schools have LOL, BTW I saw CB WEST a couple times this year and IMO Jack Fallon their RB should receive lots of recognition ,

  325. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, who would they play? I don’t know of any 8 man football teams they could play and how far would they have to travel to play them? Several football teams in Berks County have had problems scheduling other schools, especially Berks Catholic and Wyomissing, that’s one of the reasons why the Berks teams were pushing for a merger with the Lancaster/Lebanon schools which I believe will eventually happen. When? Who knows. If Kutztown drops football this year, Berks 2 football schools will be scrambling to find replacement teams to schedule and might have to have an open date if they can’t find any teams to play.

  326. phillyboy says:

    @ Mcd65 — I appreciate the nostalgia that you and Frank G mention from time to time. With your recent post about the transfer of 2 players from Wood and McDevitt to William Tennent and Northeast, I feel compelled to respond. Believe this is the second time you commented about this, this year. First of all, William Tennent is one of the worst programs in the Suburban One and Northeast is the least worst team in the Public League — so it doesn’t really matter. If the kid had transferred to say Coatesville or North Penn your point might carry a little more weight. Technically speaking, you’re right, there are some isolated examples where a public will get a favorable transfer. To cite this though as your basis to say ‘See?! Everything is fair, they do the same thing’ at best lacks meaning, at worst is like pointing out the splinter in somebody’s eye while ignoring the rafter in your own.

    phillyboy has always been a proponent of having a pure state championship and NOT having separate public and private tournaments, and I stand by that. However, recently some of you guys have been implying that the PCL may leave the PIAA and go independent to the detriment of the rest of the state. LOL — phillyboy to the PCL: Don’t let the door hit you in the bootox on the way out. The PCL needs the PIAA way more than vice versa. If they lost the ability to compete for state titles, they would lose some of their recruiting pitch. They would still have the early season sexy interstate match ups but after that it would be totally anticlimactic.

  327. Mcd65 says:

    D-3 Mike, I nominate you for the new D-3 commissioner.

  328. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Do you think or know if K-Town would consider 8-man?? I believe that is going to be much more popular in the coming years here in PA, like it or not. Something for Holy Cross up in D2 to possibly consider as well.

  329. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin X, Thanks for the information you provided us this year. I know it takes time for research etc .Hope to have you continue your input. Separately, Im sure most on here know that 5 A finalist Cheltenham had 4 Archbishop Wood transfers on their team and a couple of them contributed a great deal to their success. Additionally ,Woods star RB transferred to William Tennant for his senior year. I do not have an issue with this except the players can choose to attend a PCL school and transfer any time to a Boundary school , Another example is Northeast getting McDevitts best RB and he was their leading rusher this year. If you think that these just occur IMO YOU ARE KIDDING YOURSELF. Someone gave a recruiting pitch for these to happen. Now with the residency proposal. The PCL should withdraw from the PIAA instead of putting up with all this legislation attempting to level the playing field. PIAA just say St Joe you are too dominate for us so goodbye, I for one would like to enjoy my PCL games from now on regardless of affiliation with the PIAA without all this BS. Congratulations to each of the State champions this year and a big shout out to Southern Columbia .

  330. David Mika says:

    Very well said, Phil!

  331. Phil Myers says:

    Southern Columbia is the best small high school team I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen quite a few. Before the arrows start to fly, I am from a 4A school district in the western part of PA. They are technically sound athletes who have worked really hard and have some of the best coaching in the state. They don’t miss tackles, miss very few assignments (and if they do, they don’t make the same mistake twice), they hold blocks, they block downfield, they adjust on the run, they have team chemistry,they are just fundamentally sound. They only started two kids who play both ways, only St. Joes, had less, not C.D., not TJ, not Wood, just St.Joes had less kids play both ways. That is unheard of for any school at any level, let alone a little 2A school.

    They defeated (mercy ruled) two state champs – Hammond, S.C., who had a few D-1 prospects themselves and Wyoming. They also beat 2 semi-finalists and 2 quarter-finalists. Four of the sixteen teams they played only had one loss and that was obviously to S.C. Two other teams only had two losses. Eleven of their sixteen opponents had winning records and the overall wins and losses were 144-63 (almost 70%). That’s rare in high school football. Including the Hammond team, 8 of their 10 regular season opponents were of a higher classification 3A or 4A. They do not ‘run’ up scores as they only accounted for 190 points in the second half of games (avg. of 12 per game) and the majority of those were scored by second and third teamers. Coach Roth even had the team take a knee on extra points throughout the year.

    You could write a book on team and individual accomplishments for the year and the seniors’ career. I guess I said all of that to say, appreciate the team and what they did if you are a high school football fan. Hopefully you saw them play, because that storm will never happen again at a school that size. It’s a public school from Pennsylvania, not IMG Academy or some big city private school. Yet, still people want to hate on them. Why? Because they are winners? They do not recruit. They do not break rules, they are just a small school in the middle of nowhere with a reputation of winning because A) they have a coaching staff that is innovative and has the best training techniques and staff available and 2) the kids are 110% dedicated. I live in the country too and if you took the best kids from the twenty or so teams in my area, never since football was invented could we have ever come up with a team like that. Appreciate and embrace these guys, don’t cut them down! Kids matricualte to winners, but it’s a public school. There are boundaries. These kids could have competed with St. Joes and would have a real could shot at beating Thomas Jefferson. Nobody else I saw this year do I think they could not beat. Not saying they would, but just saying there was no one else in the state they couldn’t have beaten in my opinion.

  332. Jeff says:

    Look I get it everyone hates the guy on top it’s what makes sports great. The Patriots, the Yankees, the Lakers, all teams alot of people hate. I get alot of people put Southern into that category as well. People complain about recruiting this and that, but if you look at this class these kids have been at Southern since elementary school. Half the kids who are playing a division 1 sport in college had parents who graduated from Southern and have been there for forever. Recruiting is a major issue 100% but how is Southern recruiting kids in elementary school??? I doubt Jim Roth was seeing these guys in pee wee football and handing them a brochure after the game. I hate when people bad mouth Southern that don’t understand the culture of the program. As a kid you dream of playing football on that field and as soon as you reach middle school you are in that weight room waiting for your chance. They just know how to run a successful program. The people in that school district are crazy about football and you can see that with how they travel. I understand why Southern is hated so much, but don’t try and make for why other than simply put you hate them because they are successful. As for the class that graduates this year thank you for the best high school football team I’ve ever seen.

  333. Kevin X says:

    Haverford’s Trey Blair de-commits from Buffalo and commits to Temple.

  334. Mike A says:

    Central York’s Josh Oswalt to be next football coach at Cumberland Valley High School

  335. Kevin X says:

    @ David Cochran and FrankG

    Why stop at out of state kids?? You had the Boyertown girls soccer team win the 4A state championship this year. One of their players was a German exchange student and member of the German women’s U-16 team. Kennedy Catholic’s basketball team was basically an international all-star team the past year or so. I’m sure there are quite a few international exchange students participating in interscholastic athletics throughout the state. Just another PIAA bureaucratic potential admin and legal mess you are stirring up with a “PA” resident only rule. Seem like these transfer issues, out of state students, etc., type of issues always come back to SJP or other successful PCL teams/schools.

  336. Foleman says:

    Apparently the squawking about S. Columbia’s football team dominance has moved to the wrestling arena. I will say this, my son wrestled one of these kids listed years ago at a youth tournament, he was talking with the kid and he pointed to the Garcia’s and 1 other kid and he said we are all going to be wrestling in HS together, I looked at the teams the kids were wrestling for and they were all outside of S. Columbia’s district. Makes you wonder about some of these things listed.

    A lot of kids move into the Southern district but do so early on. After 6th grade then repeat 6th at Southern. Its a nice School District surrounded by some rougher Coal Region areas with a dynamic football program. I cant exactly blame parents who would choose to move there. Just please physically move.

    Allegedly The QB previously who is currently at Bama was pretty much driving from a different district to Southern every day. Was common knowledge according to rumors I heard. The school he left didn’t contest the transfer and I even heard told him he wasn’t going to play there. Just what I heard.

    As far as wrestling goes. Not going to say they recruit or any of these guys weren’t for legit reasons but I’ll point out these kids as coming into the district at some point. ll let you judge. Any team gets 2 or 3 of those guys and your team dynamic changes.

    Todd Lane
    Billy Barnes
    Shane Casey
    Preston Zachman
    Gaige Garcia
    Gavin Garcia
    Patrick Edmondson
    Cole Biscoe
    Wes Barnes
    Max Tillett had 2 brothers who wrestled some. Tillett May or MAy not wrestle but was a PAJW state champ.
    Sean Sprague for 1 year than left

    That’s just off the top of my head.

    Is what it is, but its hard to compete against that.

    Even with that this football team was once in a lifetime. They even lost a D1 commit off of the team who went to Berwick.

  337. Kevin X says:

    @ Dave (and I’m assuming not Mika)

    What does a transfer, or transfers, have to do with success?? They may, or may not. Kind of blanket statement. No way you can accurately determine a transfer’s affect on a team’s overall performance. You may have one or two heavily recruited D1 ESPN 300 game changing guys come in, yeah, they still may or may not push a team to a state championship. You can have 4 or 5 kids come in who are basically role players, bench guys, second or third stringers, may only see action on kickoffs or when a game is at running clock stage, i.e. not game changers, how are they being conceived as some sort of advantage?? How about kids who transfer out?? Do you get “credit” for these kids leaving?? How about if your transfers all have season ending ACL or other injuries and aren’t even involved in that seasons competition. Why 3 is the magic number, and not 2 or 4?? I can go on and on with this. Too many moving parts with this transfer issue. Success is success, leave the transfer clause, and any other ancillary issue out of this impending mess.

  338. Kevin X says:

    I’m going to try this one more time. Third time hopefully the charm. I keep forgetting Sun Valley is a member of the Chesmont. So assuming Great Valley is indeed officially moving to the PAC, that will give the PAC 13 members (at least I’ve been consistent on that front), but leave the Chesmont with 12 teams. Unless Octorara jumped back in the Chesmont when I wasn’t looking, my final answer, 12 schools in the Chesmont, if Great Valley joins the Pioneer (I’m done correcting myself, feel free to correct me if need be).

    OK, with all of that babble done, hopefully, maybe it’s just time for the PAC and Chesmont to join forces, at least for football. You’d have a nice top level 8 team 6A league with AG, DTE, DTW, CV, S-F, PV, OJR, and let’s go with Boyertown based on enrollment. Another 5A/6A division and a 4A/5A division. I’ll name it in honor of the Suburban One, and call it the Western One.

  339. FrankG says:

    Correcting my mistake: I meant to say the PCL could survive and maybe thrive outside the PIAA>

  340. Brian says:

    I’m not going to make a prediction on whether or not Southern will in fact win a state title next year. I do know for a fact they won’t be scoring 40-55 points in the first half of games and their defense won’t shut out 75% of its schedule. They’re replacing all skill positions on offense except one RB. They’re replacing all linebackers and 2 of their corners/safety. They also lose about half their offensivle/defensive lines. They graduate about 16. As for Aliquippa giving them a game in 2018 I will have to disagree. The 2015 team that mercy ruled Aliquippa is not anywhere as good as the 2018 team. The 2018 Aliquippa team would need to be lightyears better than their 2015 team. The past 2 years Southern could’ve played up to 4A. I would be bold enough to say that Southern would be competitive with and possibly beat Thomas Jefferson, Erie Cathedral Prep, Archbishop Wood, Pittsburgh Central Catholic, and St Joesph’s Prep.

  341. FrankG says:

    @ David Cochran If the PIAA requires PA residence, then they lose SJP which has had Jersey kids for over a century. Some other PCL schools (e.g. Roman and Egan) have also had kids from Jersey. There may be others. In any case, the PCL as a whole would withdraw from the PIAA if the state residency requirement were to be imposed. I’m not sure what people and which schools that would hurt the most. The PCL could thrive and maybe thrive outside the PIAA.

  342. Jeff H says:

    @ Dave – completely agree SC is a top notch program with top notch coaching, and as such they should play in a higher class to challenge themselves a little bit, how many mercy rule games in a row do you need to realize they are a great white shark swimming in the small pond of 2A football. You can keep winning all the titles you want at 2A, but the rest of the state would be far more impressed if you played up a class or 2 and continued to win, which I personally think they would, they just wouldn’t crush every team. I think every neutral observer in the state would have loved to have seen SC against Thomas Jefferson this year in the 4A final, or against Erie Prep last year, that’s how good the SC program is.

  343. mark d says:

    a friend of mine who is a ad from D11 put it this way if the state of Pa football was the Big Ten you have Penn State (public schools ) could only recruit in Pa. Michigan. (charter schools) could recruit in the whole Big Ten Ohio State (privet schools) could recruit in the whole country now which schools would have a great advantage ?

  344. D3 Mike says:

    I’d buy the argument to stay at 2A if PA still had 4 classes but to not move up to 3A when we now have 6 classes is a mistake. 3A has the SAME TEAMS in it that the old 2A had so it isn’t really “playing up” compared to where Southern Columbia was playing before. The last time we had 4 classes was 2015. SCA was in 2A and its playoff run was as follows:

    Troy 42-22
    Hughsville 49-20
    Montoursville 56-50
    Berks Catholic 34-21
    West Catholic 34-19
    Aliquippa 49-14

    How do those scores look to you? Do you think that title run was more satisfying for the kids than this one? If you don’t, I’m really not sure what to tell you.

    Now I get that this senior class was exponentially better than the 2015 class but all the program has done is mercy rule every team but 1 in 2A since we’ve moved to 6 classes. I’m sure they would have won 3A every year, too, but I honestly think Aliquippa would have given them a game in 2018 and teams like Middletown who run the same offense would have kept the games competitive, longer, than the overmatched 2A programs in the east. And this has nothing to do with “participation trophies”. It’s high school football, not the NFL, people. Stop living vicariously through your local school district. The blowouts aren’t good for the kids on the teams they are playing, it’s not good for fans who want to attend games, it’s not good for the sport, and it certainly isn’t good for all of the D1 SCA players who will now go to Big 10 camps in January a step behind all of the kids who played more time, in more competitive games, against more D1 players than SCA is ever going to come across in 2A. They did a good job scheduling better competition non-league this year but I’d be curious to hear if Roth still would have played 2018-2019 at 2A if he had to do it over again.

  345. Kevin X says:

    My bad. Leave PAC with 13 teams, Chesmont 11. Both odd awkward numbers to work with.

  346. NW PA says:

    I know a bunch of people feel very strongly about SC moving up. I live nowhere near the eastern part of the state so I don’t have a horse in this race. I do agree with Jut that it probably wasn’t fun watching them do that all year, especially the finals. That being said I still don’t agree. The first issue with voluntarily moving up is that a coach can only choose to do that every 2 years, you can’t move up mid cycle. Even if you have a special group of kids you never know what the season will bring with injuries. When this years senior class were sophomores I think we all knew they would be good and their coach did too. I’m
    not sure why their coach didn’t move up after this class’s sophomore year. Most coaches generally do the safe thing. I’d also like to bring up that SC runs the Wing-T which can very difficult to stop especially when you have all that talent. I remember when Erie Cathedral ran into Berks in the semi finals in 2016/2017. Those Berks teams ran that offense perfectly and an incredibly talented Erie Cathedral struggled to stop it for 3 quarters of both games. That Hammond team that SC played had some great football players and was a good team but had clearly never scene anything like the Wing T. Could anyone tell me how SC is supposed to be next season?

  347. Kevin X says:

    It appears that Great Valley is jumping ship and leaving the Chesmont for the Pioneer Athletic Conference (PAC). Will leave both conferences with 13 schools. Don’t know if that is a lucky or unlucky number.

  348. Jeff H says:

    @ Brian – most of the D1 talent on the Steel Valley team in 2016 were transfers from other schools, so they are not a good comparison to SC, Paris Ford who now plays for Pitt played for 3 different schools in 3 years. Yes, it is possible for small schools to have several D1 players, just last year Aliquippa, a 1A school by enrollment, had several D1 players, as did the great Clairton teams from 2009-2012. I agree with you some of the comments on here about SC are ludicrous, I have nothing but respect for Jim Roth and the program, but to continue to slaughter and mercy rule every team you play is not a good situation for anyone, including the kids on SC’s team. In my opinion SC has outgrown 2A and should play in a higher classification, and it’s far from ridiculous to feel that way as a neutral, objective fan of HS football. We’ll see how many “close” games SC has next year, I personally think they will be preseason #1 in 2A and don’t see anyone beating them, even with all the talent they graduate. I’ll make a fun little wager with you, I’ll take SC to win the state title again next year and give you every other 2A school in the state, and we’ll see who’s right, anyone else want to take me up on that.

  349. Dave says:

    I agree with several posters here that teams should not be forced to play up based on success alone. If they receive an advantage of some kind, such as players regularly transferring in, then yes, move them up. On a separate subject, I do not expect Southern to drop off much next year. Recent history has shown that their upcoming talent compares well with their graduating talent. Top-notch program with top-notch coaching will do that.

  350. Foleman says:

    Kutztown is considering eliminating it’s football program, The AD had to give a presentation in front of the school board-(which wants football gone) concerning the viability of the program. Several reasons were given: Low numbers-only 17 kids on the team at the end of last year and that included players from Brandywine HS who have a co-op agreement with Kutztown. Safety-Kutztown had to forfeit a game a few years ago due to not having enough healthy players, freshman who are not physically ready were being inserted into the starting lineup, plus Kutztown called a game at halftime this year where they were losing 76-0! Shrinking enrollment at the School was also cited-159 boys in grade’s 9-11. Kutztown has not won a game in 3 seasons and hasn’t had a winning season since 2004, the program has had only 3 winning seasons in 44 years. The sad part about this is that it doesn’t look like any of the nearby schools will enter into a co-op agreement with them so any kids from Kutztown who want to play football wont be able to play somewhere else.

  351. Kevin X says:

    @ David Cochran

    Short answer……..


    Long answer, I’ll have to charge you $250 an hour 🙂

    Your SC example/comparison isn’t the best. The SCISA (and SCACS) is more akin to the PAISAA. Better comparison (or goal of what you are seeking) you should look across the Delaware to NJ.

  352. David Cochran says:

    Wish somebody could explain to me in the boundary versus non boundary School situation, why we could not solve the problem the way South Carolina did by simply going to public and non-public playoffs. South Carolina has an independent Association and separates the public schools and the private and parochial schools. Hammond which Southern Columbia played in a game earlier this year is in a private school conference which is throughout the state of South Carolina. Why can’t the state of Pennsylvania simply dissolved the PIAA and go back to a public school non-public school situation in which if you take State money you’re in with the public schools all the rest that do not take State money or in a separate class and therefore you have two state champions in each class. Also as a second thought why not simply in Pennsylvania to get past the boundary non-binary school or public versus private and parochial why not make a requirement that the students parents must live in the state of Pennsylvania and therefore you would not have the kids coming across the bridges from Delaware and New Jersey to participate in our state.

  353. Kevin X says:

    @ d2baller

    On the PIAA website, they have what I would call limited box scores for each of the 6 football championship games and the attendance for each game. You’ll have to some digging I guessing for past attendance figures, unless someone else has that info on hand. The link for the 2019 games:


  354. Tornado Fan says:

    The formula might not be perfect, but it looks like the PIAA is at least doing something. I think the rule is more about fairness than success and both factors should be taken into account. Maybe a team should need to have 3x transfers in class 4A-5A and 2 transfers in class 1A-3A, combined with 2x state championships or something along those lines. In my opinion, it is unfair to force a team to move up based on success alone. If there are no transfers or unfair advantages, let them play where they are at unless they voluntarily choose to play up. Also, what is the point of making a team with a bunch of transfers but not really successful move up? Would anyone even care if they are not dominating? The biggest flaw I see in this plan is that apparently the PIAA’s method of investigation consists of sending a form to the successful school district to verify the number of transfers. Seems like something a school could get around pretty easily if they wanted to. The other flaw is that there is nowhere to go for dominant 6A schools with transfers since they are already at the top.

  355. mark d says:

    @Kevin x Lackawanna Trail moving up becuse that where they fell with the new number and Midvaley and i believe Carbondale are moving to AAA .Abington is going to 5A but Wallenpaupack is droping to 4 A here it has nothing to do with success and transfers are far and few between in D2

  356. Mike A says:

    My Final East top 10…
    1) St. Joseph’s Prep (12) 12-2
    2) Central Dauphin (3) 12-3
    3) Manheim Township (3) 11-1
    4) Harrisburg (3) 9-4
    5) Downingtown West (1) 13-2 (3)
    6) Wilson (3) 10-2
    7) Nazareth Area (11) 12-2 (4)
    8) Coatesville (1) 10-3 (5)
    9) Northeast (12) 11-2
    10) La Salle College HS (12) 8-3

  357. Brian says:

    I love the comments to continue to demean the southern football team. Now we’re not just hearing the idiotic statements about recruiting and redshirting but now it’s if you don’t play football you get bullied. The whole thing about them playing up is just ridiculous. Could’ve senior group played up to 3 or 4A this past 2 years yes. However from 2007 to 2014 they made the state title game 1 time so obviously they obviously didn’t need to play up. This group just happens to be loaded with division one talent this year. Those that want to complain saying how can a AA school have 4 division 1 recruits in the same class. Go back to steel valley beating southern in mercy rule fashion in 2016. They had a load of D1 talent. Also go back to 96 when southern lost to Farrell, they had several D1 recruits. Southern won’t be super human next year and will have close games. I won’t say they can’t get back to the state title game because I’ve said that before and was wrong. It won’t be easy for them to return.

  358. SCA Alum says:

    All of the coaches from SCA have been there for years. All of them are dear close friends. Many of them volunteer and give so much time, it’s unreal. As for mentoring, Coach Roth has openly given the “Program Guidelines” to many other coaches, but it’s hard to replicate. The coaches at SCA are just plain old good men.
    I’m all for SCA playing up, but some bigger school are reluctant to play them. That fact is rarely spoken. Montoursville and Wyoming Area were the only team with any gusto.

  359. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – sorry, can’t help you with logic or common sense when it comes to the PIAA, I’m guessing they didn’t have the votes to impose a “success rule” on its own merit and had to couple it with the 3 transfer rule, which makes no sense to those of us that think logically. If the goal is to level the playing field seems to me one should use both rules independent of each other, after all success is success regardless of whether you have transfers or not, and the total dominance of 1 particular school at a certain class year after year is not good for the sport in general.

  360. Jeff H says:

    @NW PA – completely agree with everything you stated in your wrap up. I underestimated how good PCC was, because in my opinion and many others their 2019 team was not as good as their 2015/16 teams, and they did not look that good in their 10-7 win over PR in the WPIAL final. But you’re right about match-ups, they are the only 6A team, at least in the playoffs, that was able to match SJP on the lines, and thus were able to stay in the game against them and actually outplay them in the 2nd half and come one play from upsetting them. That catch by Harrison Jr. on 4th and 10 from the 12 yard line with 15 seconds to go in the game will go down as one of the all time clutch plays in PIAA playoff history, too bad there were only about 1,500 total fans in the stands to witness a fantastic playoff game.

    Regarding CV, they completely shut down Wyoming’s offense for the first 3 quarters like I thought they would, allowing only 79 yards of total offense, then the dam burst with that 80 yard TD pass and the momentum totally shifted, the way it played out was one of the more stunning turnarounds in a game in the finals that I can remember. I actually think the change in momentum happened on the CV drive that preceded the 80 yard TD pass, they had 2nd and 6 on Wyoming’s 26 yard line, receiver was wide open in the flat and dropped an easy catch when he would have gotten well inside the 20 and picked up a first down, then they took a penalty and ended up punting to pin them deep. Had CV gotten a first down and went on to score and go up 21-0 that might have deflated Wyoming, but I give Wyoming all the credit in the world for not quitting and mounting an amazing comeback.

    For those of you that get PCN, or have subscribed for this month, check out the PR vs. Manheim Central epic 2 OT snow game from 2003 this Saturday at 7pm, one of the all time great games in finals history. And if you recall the PIAA moved the Saturday games to Sunday because of all the snow from Friday night.

  361. d2baller says:

    Is there a way to find the attendance at each piaa championship game from this year and years prior? Would be interesting to see attendance charts throughout the years.

  362. Jut says:

    Okay with this whole SCA moving up a class, why not. That wasn’t fun for anyone. Wasn’t fun for the players, coaches, fans or anyone watching that AA championship game. 74-7 like really it’s a state championship. This is why I say Southern loves mercy ruling everyone and won’t play up to 3a or where they should play 4a. Considering they shut out the AAA state champ Wyoming at Wyoming. No one wants to see another state championship like this. This happen in Single A state basketball championship 2 years when Lourdes got destroyed by Kennedy Catholic 78-35. That school jumped up to 6a the following year and won the state championship. They jumped up 6 classes and won. Why can’t southern do it?

    With the whole thing about transfers going to SCA, this maybe true, I’ve had a player talk to me about that program. He went to southern, played there. He said different players were alway coming in. Every wonder why they have so many players too… he said if you didn’t play football or wrestle you were bullied. I mean this could all be heresay but why would he lie to me about that?

  363. Foleman says:

    SCA Alum, would you know of any of Roth’s assistants that have coached at other high schools? If so, I’m sure they would bring their Wing T and weightlifting program along with them. SCA definitely has one of the top coaching staffs in Pa history. I was at Knoebels several years ago and several SCA kids were there, they physically looked like college players. Pettine had Carey, Pettine Jr and a few others go on to coaching success….Pettine Jr in the NFL. Jim Mich-Pius X Pottstown legendary coach mentored Pettine Sr, Rick Keeley-(Berks Catholic), Dave Bodolus-(Daniel Boone), Jeff Chillott-(Schuykill Valley) and Jim Mich Jr-(Spring Ford) in his coaching tree, not bad! If I am an area Athletic Director in that area, I’m interviewing Roth’s assistant coaches today.

  364. Kevin X says:

    Can someone, anyone, please help me in understanding the logic, common sense, rational or simply where I am wrong for the following two possible “success” factor scenarios??


    Farrell wins back to back “A” state championships. 8 “success” factor points, 2 more than the 6 needed to move up.
    Lackawanna Trail, 2018 “A” championship game appearance, gets their doors blown out by the aforementioned Farrell, then in 2019 they were defeated in semi finals. 7 “success” factor points, 1 more than the 6 needed to move up.

    Here is the unsettling rub based on a hypothetically that could become a reality. Suppose Farrell is deemed to have only two transfers (am I not sure what even qualifies as an official transfer for this purpose based on all the exceptions, scenarios, rulings, etc., but for arguments sake, we’ll say two legit transfers for Farrell), and let’s say Lackawanna Trail is deemed to have 3. So am I of the understanding, that in this potential scenario, that the team that won back to back state championships does not have to “play-up,” yet the team with all of one more transfer over the course of a two year cycle, and did not win any state championships, is then mandated for the next two years, to “play-up?”


    Same similar scenario can take place in “AA” with Southern Columbia and Wilmington.

    Why is this very disturbing to me?? Is this actually a “Success” factor formula/rule to help level the playing field and increase competition, or a thinly disguised, end round, back door new transfer rule??

  365. NW PA says:

    A few thoughts after Hershey. Much respect to Farrell, such a small public school yet consistently good. The more I watch SC, the better they look. No 3A school could touch them and only TJ or Cathedral would have a chance in 4A and who knows what would happen. Surprised about the CV game, they just collapsed, but kudos to Wyoming for never quitting. After watching the Wood game I’m pretty sure TJ or Cathedral could have beat them but they did get their 6th title in the last like ten years which is incredible. SJP had the perfect strategy but I thought it would be closer without Mcord. I feel like PCC must have been pretty good to almost win that game but that’s also part of the matchup aspect of the game. PCC has such a great line on both sides of the ball, one of the few teams who could matchup with SJP on the line.

  366. Tornado Fan says:

    @SCA Alum Nobody doubts that SCA works hard, but you can’t assume that other schools don’t work hard as well. Since Darrah has taken over as MCA’s coach, I see pics online of the team in the weight room every week in the offseason and I can tell you they were also there the week after their season ended. Right now, SCA has a perfect storm of years of coaching experience, tradition, hard work and also getting many of the best athletic families in the area. I have heard of transfers to SCA over the years but would never post anything on hearsay. However, this is coming from the PIAA, so I think its a little more legitimate. I’m sure St. Joe’s Prep can also say that they win every year because their kids work harder, but we all know its not the whole story. If it turns out SCA doesn’t have enough transfers to move up under the new rule, I have absolutely no problem with them staying in 2A.

  367. FrankG says:

    @phillyboy How do you know that the Prep football players get free tuition?

  368. phillyboy says:

    Was supposed to go out to Hershey with an old acquaintance for the 6A final; thank goodness he flaked on me. From the get-go you could tell it was a joke. Central Dauphin literally couldn’t do anything. Even when they had that nice kick off return to Prep’s 20 yard line you just knew it was going to fizzle. Goodness gracious, it was as if CD was playing in 3 feet of invisible water. Was it Foleman that bluntly said that ‘public 6A stinks’? Admittedly, that’s part of it. But the bigger reason has to do with a private school not being hampered by bureaucratic ‘feces from the virile gender of the bovine species’ — they have singleness of purpose and can call their own shots. So they’re businessmen — Prep to top end talent with limited means: Make you a deal, you play for us, we’ll give you free tuition. You combine that with all the coached up, fresh out of camp Johnny hustles and voila, the annual party at Hershey Park stadium.

  369. SCA Alum says:

    How about all the people stop saying that certain schools need to move up because of success! How about having the unsuccessful programs have their kids get in the weight rooms and do speed drills all summer and support multi-sport athletes. That is what SCA does. All the boys playing this year have been at the school since grade school (so shut the transfer talk). Did you hear what Fleming said after the game to the team? “If you’re not playing another sport, Monday get in the weight room!” I would guess that there were kids pumping iron on Saturday morning. Commitment + Hard Work + Dedication = Success! Other schools and programs just don’t get it. Once you start winning you have that drive, and SCA has been winning for a long time. So, if you want to make the PIAA Championship trophy into a participation trophy (Everyone Wins), then support the nonsense of making teams play up. How about other teams step up to the challenge?

  370. New2Pa says:

    Pine-Richland beat SJP in 2017
    Penn Hills beat Wood in 2018
    TJ beat ECP in 2019 – who else beat them. Maybe before I was around?

  371. Foleman says:

    Was very disappointed in CD’S showing, saw them twice this year and they were better than what showed up tonight. I think starting out they were intimidated by the Prep, they surprisingly got whipped up front and were out coached. Prep ran a 6-2 defense and sometimes an 8 man front to stop the run and blitzed CD’S Soph QB to death when CD had to pass, which they could not. CD’S special teams play was awful against Downingtown West and helped Prep to a 14-0 lead, game over. S. Columbia and Prep juggernauts are also the 2 best coached teams I have seen in the playoffs. Hey, Pitt CC must be pretty darn good to go toe to toe with the Prep.

  372. Brian says:

    I picked Wyoming area to get there once the injury to the north Schuylkill QB. I felt they had a good chance to get there before the injury.

  373. Eric W/D3 says:

    Nice run by CD in the post season, but kinda figured Prep would shut down their O. CD passing game is basically one WR so I’m sure Prep went to work with film on CD’s two losses in the reg.season. In those games they couldn’t run and could not score.

    WWL, 21-13 loss, 23-48 rushing, no rushing TD’s
    MT, 10-7 loss, 32-71 rushing. no rushing TD’s

    Plus the WWL OL was too physical for CD D line(almost 200 yrs rushing by WWL). Prep OL controlled them as well. At this point of the post season, top notch teams will expose teams that are one dimensional. Congrats to Prep and the rest of the title winners

  374. Brian says:

    Yes Dave you’re correct. I was thinking the 35-0 Montoursville game. I got the scores backwards.

  375. D3 Mike says:

    Since this game was mostly a snooze-fest, IMO… here are the post-season records versus boundary programs this decade for the 2019 state title winners:

    20-1 St. Joe’s Prep
    27-1 Archbishop Wood
    20-6 Thomas Jefferson
    10-5 Wyoming Area
    36-6 Southern Columbia
    23-7 Farrell

    Yes, there are public dynasties and they win plenty of title games in blowouts but just looking at these numbers it’s clear that none of the public programs are anywhere near the equivalent in dominance of Prep and Wood – not even Southern Columbia. (P.S. ECP didn’t win this year but they went 29-3).

    I’m a Catholic football fan but, realistically, the best of 500 boundary schools in PA will beat the PCL’s best once or twice a decade.

  376. Dave says:

    @Brian, Actually the So. Co. / Wyoming score was 42 – 0. Glad that Wyoming Area proved themselves to all those who said they had no chance.

  377. P-R Fan says:

    Tornado Fan:That article allso means Wood is either going to be 4A where the are classed or 6A if they have 3 or more transfer.

  378. Jeff H says:

    Wow, what an incredible 4th quarter comeback by Wyoming when it looked like they were on the ropes at the end of the third. Dom DeLuca is a tremendous high school football player, what a memorable and gutty performance, I was very surprised Wyoming’s defense contained CV’s offense as well as they did. Hopefully tonight’s game is as good as the last 2, definitely some of the best championship games so far in a long time.

  379. Tornado Fan says:

    Article on SCA and others moving up-

    I was never a fan of the idea of forcing a team to play up due to success alone. However, if they keep getting transfers for football and winning championships, I’m all for it.
    SCA is always good, but they have been a juggernaut the past 3 seasons with this class (I think they would have beaten anybody I’ve watched so far this weekend except ‘maybe’ TJ). I’m sure they will be good next year and beyond, but they will not be as dominant as they have been recently. If they somehow continue to be this dominant in AA assuming they didn’t have many transfers, I think they should want to move up voluntarily based on the fact that most of their starters this year only played the 1st half, but I don’t think that is going to be the case. If they do have the transfers, I think it is a fair rule.

    Agree with everyone about the trophy. The golden football was like the Lombardi trophy of PA HS football, not sure why they would get rid of it.

  380. D3 Mike says:

    Another great game. Congrats to Wyoming Area for getting their school’s first title and the first for D2 in awhile. And props to the Wyoming Area AD and staff for making that Southern Columbia game happen. If they don’t get kicked in the teeth earlier this year I don’t know if they come back in the 4th quarter like they did today. That was a wealth of experience and game film to draw on to prepare the team for their playoff run.

  381. Mike A says:

    Leaving for Hershey shortly for the SJP/CD game. Hoping it’s a good one.

    3A FINAL
    Wyoming Area 21
    Central Valley 14

    So much for all the pundits here! LOL

  382. Brian says:

    I must say I’m not impressed with the new PIAA trophy look either. Congrats to Wyoming Area on winning their first state title. To think Southern shut them out 35-0 on their own field in week 8.

  383. Matt says:

    So far we have had three good one score games in Hershey. This last one was incredible to watch. CV had a 14-0 lead and Wyoming backed up and then boom an 80 yard TD and that changed the game on a dime. What a great game who didn’t really care who won. Hopefully tonight’s game is as good. These games have been some of the best games I have seen in a while in Hershey.

  384. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Has anybody taken notice to the “NEW” style trophies handed out at Hershey this year. To me it looks like PIAA forgot to order trophies went into a trophy shop and pulled 12 off the shelves. To me they are on the cheap looking side. I know a trophy is not really important but come on. Maybe it is just me and not important to this forum and I apologize to the PIAA about this post but I think they could have done better.

  385. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, et al

    …..and just to follow-on to your game results……the two blowouts were those sinister private/catholic schools beating up on hapless public schools. Oh wait, my bad, the two blow outs involved 4 traditional public boundary schools. Huh. Ok then, I guess then the two nail bitters involved more competitive public boundary schools. Dang!! What is going on with me this morning, that’s not right either!!! A public boundary school actually beat one of those “they don’t play by the same rules” recruiting catholic schools in OT, and the another public school, the majority of you couldn’t locate on a PA map, took a traditional catholic juggernaut down to the final seconds in their game. I have a hunch it will be two somewhat similar outcomes later today…….

  386. Jeff H says:

    Well so far 2 blowouts and 2 nail biters, we’ll see what today has in store. I hope 3A will be a good game, but I think CV has too much speed and talent for Wyoming, and I have a hunch they win by 3-4 scores, I doubt Wyoming is going to score many points on CV’s defense, just like Dallas had trouble moving the ball consistently against TJ, I see the final something like 34-7.

    I think 6A may come down to who’s able to play for SJP, if Leneghan and Rightley can’t play on defense I think CD will be able to run the ball effectively and perhaps control the clock some, it was obvious they were missed on defense last week against PCC. I think this game will be very competitive and perhaps as good as the game last night, would love to CD win, but I have a hunch SJP finds a way to pull out a close one 28-24.

  387. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you about it being a classy move by schools like Aliquippa, BC, Beca, McDevitt, Wood, etc. playing up, I wish Southern Columbia would do the same thing, what else do they have to prove in 2A. They have one of the top programs in the state regardless of classification and in my opinion they should challenge their kids a little and play up, everyone on this board would love to see them play TJ, I think it’s pretty obvious this year that SC and TJ are the 2 best non 6A schools in the state and either one of them would have won 5A. Other states like Indiana have a success factor rule that is not tied to transfers, win 2 state titles in a row and you are forced to move up a class, keep winning in the new class and move up again, this would help level the playing field and maybe help reduce the number of mismatches and blowouts.

    @ Kevin X – I agree with you about Wood and Imhotep playing different classes to avoid playing each other in the D12 final, in the last year of 4 classes in 2015 Imhotep of course beat them in the D12 final and cruised to the state title, then when we went to 6 classes they were able to avoid each other by playing up 1 class. I don’t have any problem with Wood playing 5A, that’s where they should be playing, if other schools like SC and Erie Prep would voluntarily play up it would be better for everyone, including those schools.

  388. Foleman says:

    Archbishop Wood has only 41 players on the team and 3 of them are Kickers? You have to be kidding me! Great game but I can’t remember 2 teams that were this weak in a championship game in 5A. Wood has their top player-Santiago transfer to William Tennant before the start of the season, no mention on PCN that Cheltenham’s Barnes and TJ Harris transferred out of Wood to Cheltenham either yet the announcers last year constantly mentioned Erie Cathedral Prep’s transfers. Southern Columbia, Thomas Jefferson, ECP would have beat either of those teams by 3-4 touchdowns. Time to go to 5 Divisions for the playoffs.

  389. GaryZ says:

    @Kevin X
    Well they have done it the right way, built from the lower grades up. Same system, from what I have heard. I am not in the know out their, I am D7. But I have never heard of them recruiting. They are a PUBLIC, not a team that blatantly recruits or has convenient transfers year in, year out. As far as I know, and I have not heard otherwise. I am not a fan of forcing a public, w as far as I know, plays by the rules to move up. However, I think they should do it like Alliquippa, move up one class, or 2 classes like the ‘Quips. But what I mentioned before, if they like just dominating competition year in year out. That’s their right. Sure they will have a year here and there where they run into a Steel Valley, however it will not be often. But the fans who think they can dominate up through 5A, let’s see em try. ‘Quips could do the same exact thing, but have always played up. A small Class A, playing in 3 A, in one of the most brutal conferences in the State. The ‘Quips would literally just absolutely blow class A schools out, to the point some schools would forfeit. They don’t see a point in it, and what would it prove. A storied program w loads of D1 talent, multiple players in NFL most years, every year just absolutely blowing teams away by 70-80 points. I know some involved in the ‘Quips program and they are not at all interested in that. I REALLY RESPECT IT, and agree with them.

  390. Kevin X says:

    @ GaryZ

    Why should they not be forced to move up??

  391. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    I hear you, but I still wouldn’t call it playing the system. Heck, the system we don’t even know how it’s working. I’d say more of a mundane, “it is what it is” for right now.

    To answer your question about not taking a shot at 6A??, well simple, two words……The Prep. You are already getting handily beat by them in the regular season, why would you subject yourself to getting bounced handily again by them in the first or second weeks of the playoffs?? Kind of believe that is why Imhotep and Wood make sure, if able, that they are in different classifications.

  392. GaryZ says:

    Hopefully we get two good ones tomorrow. Let’s see if 3A and 6A can be at least half as good as tonight’s game. No dog in fight in 6A, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t mind seeing SJP All-Stars upset. Don’t think it happens, but we shall see. Definitely wanna see D7 C. Valley beat Wyo. I am not sure what we see in 3A, I expect that C.V. wins big. They played T.J. really tough, was at the game. Was closer than score reflected, C.V. made some mistakes, but TJ was not in danger. Still, TJ 28-3 over C.V. But good teams make other teams, shoot themselves in the foot, regardless of some people’s thoughts on that.

  393. GaryZ says:

    What a game. Congratulations to A.W. and Chelt. Awesome game, gotta give respect to both teams. AW pulled two close ones out, today and Gateway. Regardless of key players missing in the AW vs G-Way game, Derek Davis and a few from AW. Next man up, good teams find a way to win in adversity. This was a great game, excellent Athletes on both sides. Shame there had to be a loser. Tip of the cap too both programs, ultimately the fans were the winners here. Especially ones like me, no dog in the fight. Just wanted to see a good game, instead we got to see an AWESOME GAME.

  394. GaryZ says:

    @mark d
    Just wanted to make sure ya didn’t get that impression. You always gave me good info on teams from the East, like Dunmore and some others. Happy Holidays.

  395. GaryZ says:

    SCA is a great team, deserve all the credit they get. They should not be forced to move up. However, I would like to see them do it like Alliquippa. The ‘Quips are a Class A school, however it would be absurd for them to play Class A football and basketball. So they play up 2 classes to 3A. Maybe SCA should try one or two classes up. Still be a power, but wouldn’t be the absolute blow outs week in week out. I know they played an Independent from S. Carolina and Wyo. Just think it be awesome to see SCA vs Thomas Jeff. or traditional 3A n 4A powers from East n West. They again should not be forced, it’s a choice. Like the ‘Quips have always done, there would literally be Zero competition for the Quips in Class A. But that’s there choice. I don’t really think they ran it up, but coulda put your younger guys in a little earlier. But hey, keep turning it over n throwing picks… that’s gonna happen. There is a way to help yourself not get blown out so badly. Milk the clock, quit throwing pick 6’s. But hey, hats off to Avonworth, first time to win a WPIAL, and go to States.

  396. NW PA says:

    I can’t believe anyone is surprised how the SC game went today. I have no doubt that SC would have easily won no matter what, but Avonworth didn’t help themselves with the turnovers for touchdowns. How is any 2A team supposed to compete against a team with 5 D1 starters on both sides of the ball. The senior class for SC was a special group of kids. I have no doubt that this years SC team could hold their own against the top 4A-6A teams in the state—not saying they would win but they would hold their on. Looking forward to the remaining games.

  397. Brian says:

    Foleman did you even watch the game? The starting offense barely was on the field in the first half. Avonworth threw 3 consecutive pick 6s. Plus a fumble that set up southern on the 8. You can’t turn the ball over six times in a half and expect to have a close game against Southern.Then after the starters came out they turned it over a couple more times including a fumbled punt that was returned for a touchdown Definitely was not running up the score.

  398. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin and Foleman, Thanks for the D1/D12 scouting. Foleman, I have a lot of connections to the BC program and they are not going to be nearly as strong as 2015-2018 for many years. You are correct about transfers helping them but that was really the icing on the cake during their run. All of the D1 guys they’ve had (other than McFoy, who I’m assuming got D1 offers) and skill position players played all 4 years (if not more) in the system and now they are running out of Lutz brothers to plug in. Their junior high teams have been meh for the past 2-3 years now so I really think they will struggle in Berks 1 with GM and even Exeter on top of that non-league slate. They are scheduling Roman and PJPII not for competition as much as because they can’t find anyone to play them.

    On 2A, I honestly don’t know whether to criticize Avonworth for throwing so much or laud them for sticking with their game plan lol. I thought SCA had their starters in maybe 1 series too long but not a big deal, really. Like I noticed it when it was 55-7 but it was only mid way thru the third so again, not a big deal.

    D4 people: The Erie broadcaster I follow on Twitter said Southern Columbia will not be forced up to 3A next year as they did not have 3 transfers. Can you confirm? Also, I see Shamokin and someone else volunteered to play 4A. Was that because they expected SCA to be in 3A or is there another reason? Because that’s a major whoops if SCA is down at 2A.

    Without arguing about publics and privates, I think it’s a smart and classy move by Allentown, Bethlehem, Bishop McDevitt & Berks Catholic to volunteer up to 4A. I’m sure the 4A publics want them classed higher but they could have stuck in lower classifications as some other successful Catholic programs did.

  399. Yoyo672 says:

    @Foleman, do you want southern to pull their first team after 1 quarter? A once in a lifetime senior class that could arguably win 2a-5a and compete with SJP in 6a, I’m Letting them play 3 quarters of there final game of their career.

  400. ColonialFan says:

    @Kevin X

    Certainly credit due for them playing up to 5A. However when they have more or less run the table, in 5A for the last 5 years (with the exception of last year) then why not take your shot at 6A. Sure they may be “down” this year, but still plenty good, they had plenty of D1 talent in the past that most schools don’t have the opportunity to have. I won’t mention the word, but we all know it. Coming from the Lehigh Valley, Beca and Central should probably be playing up to 5A. Every school they play is 6A or 5A. From my perspective, Wood staying at 4A is playing the system, in my opinion. Yes, my team lost to them, but this isn’t sour grapes. They were clearly the better team.

  401. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I am familiar with PJP as my nephew plays for them. They lose approx. 3/4 of their starting lineup on offense and defense but they have several quality backups so the cupboard is not empty, based on what BC and PJP have coming back I would put BC as a 1 TD favorite. Roman has an excellent QB, their best player graduated, they have a few lineman back and some athletes returning, but based on what I saw when they played PJP in the 1st game of the year I would think BC would be slightly favored in that game too. It will be interesting to see who transfers into BC for next year as they move up to Div 1 in Berks, they always get a few transfers but with the new rules they wont be getting any Senior or possibly Junior players transferring in anymore.

  402. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    Oops, looks like I just tossed up the same voluntary playing up link that you already did.

    Flawed yes, but not exactly in the way you layed it out or presented. No one seems to give any credit to those schools who have been previously voluntarily playing up. I don’t think they should be punished for going above and beyond all along, when others who should or could have, didn’t. I also think if you had two schools (ECP and SCA) play up the past cycle or two, you would not have had the need for this whole thing. As far as flawed, I think transfers should have nothing to do with this. Leave them out, too complicated and divisive, and have little to do with “success.” And if you have kids transfer out, do they get to offset the number of transfers coming in?? Also, it should be more then a two year representation (of points), should have been a 4 year control sample, especially since its been 4 years since expanding to 6 classifications.

  403. Foleman says:

    My God! The refs should call the Southern Columbia/Avonworth game. 55-7 at the half Score is now 68-7 with 4 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. No class Roth still has his 1st teamers in there on offense and defense. SC definitely is the best small school team I have ever seen but it’s clear their coach is running up the score on a team that is outclassed and undermanned.

  404. mark d says:

    @Gary i didn’t think you were being disrespectful at all if cit went the other way i would have been busting on you < yu called it i was wrong not the first time be well and have a great Holiday SEASON

  405. GaryZ says:

    Yes Mike, Beaver Falls had a down year after they beat Middletown. Middletown had a great run for those 3 years and this year. I respect them. They accomplished more than most programs. Here is a hypothetical, they would find it very hard to make the playoffs out of the Beaver Co. conference they played every year in State finals. They shot themselves in the foot as you said, and had a huge disadvantage because of the bye D7 got. Just my opinion, said it before, whatever Beaver Co. team they played could have played a Semi on Friday and beat em on Saturday. I respect what they did, my point was simply, they are not on par with the D7 teams they faced. I know they had the self inflicted wounds and the bye week, but that’s how it shook out. No bye week for D7, and M-Town not “shooting selves in the foot,” they probably beat D7 teams In finals. After all Beaver Falls or whatever team ya wanna point too are one offs. But hypothetically they would find it real hard in that Beaver Co conference, every week playing a different powerhouse. Let’s see how Wyo does vs C.V. I hope they don’t shoot themselves in the foot, if they do… C.V. did have a bye week.

  406. Kevin X says:


    My bad, I think I might have used “Grey” for Kamal’s last name in my previous post.

  407. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    The short of it, I believe Roman will be the same or better, PJPII will take a step back, and MP will be better. Looking briefly at whose coming back, mainly two QB’s (RC and MP) and Grey moving on from PJPII. Think Foleman might have a better view and outlook on PJPII.

    I do applaud BC for taking on some nice regular season competition. Think makes thing more interesting playing different teams and very good teams, and makes one better over the long haul.

  408. Kevin X says:

    Quick update to those new enrollment figs/classification……I took a closer look and saw specifically a list of schools “voluntary” playing up at the bottom of that PIAA article. Guess the success factor(s) still need to be worked into this. Interesting that Wood and Imhotep didn’t voluntarily “play-up” again this cycle, maybe because they know or assume that they will be moved up anyway??


  409. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I think you might be right about having to wait until CD-SJP tomorrow night for a really competitive game like the 1A final yesterday, hope I’m wrong, we’ll see.

  410. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, thanks for the enrollment numbers. Do you know anything about what the Roman and PJPII teams will look like next year? Berks Catholic added both to the 2020 schedule and I’m not familiar with either program. I see that Roman beat Wood 20-6 earlier this year which is fairly terrifying, especially considering that BC is already playing Central Dauphin and Malvern Prep in September.

    Is anyone not from the two schools involved actually going to the game this afternoon? Hopefully the 5A tonight is competitive but I’m not holding my breath. From what I’ve read Cheltenham should at least put up some points. Might have to wait for tomorrow night for anything close to the 1A final, though.

  411. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    The last time that I remember being within the Philly city limits, other than center city for work or play, was several years ago I was in the Fox Chase section(??)/Northeast HS for the North Penn/SJP playoff game. But its not just the city catholic schools, its catholic schools throughout the Delaware Valley that continue to bleed students/enrollment. Even the ones that did not drop down in classification, the suburban ones such as O’Hara, Wood, Shanahan, etc. all lost kids from the previous cycle. PJPII appears to be the only school to add a handful of kids.

  412. ColonialFan says:

    Regarding the new classifications…the teams that voluntarily chose to move up were listed.


    When does the success formula get factored in? It seems as though there’s already a flaw in the system. Using Archbishop Wood as an example, they have voluntarily been playing up to 5A for years now even though they are 4A. However, this cycle they chose to remain at 4A. So if the success formula is being used they will only get bumped to 5A, when in reality they’ve been dominating 5A and should get bumped to 6A. So seems as those there’s a little loophole. Am I making sense?

  413. Jeff H says:

    Some thoughts and predictions for today’s games

    Avonworth vs. SC – the real question is whether this will be a mercy rule like last nights game, I don’t think it will be at the half, I see something like 28-7 or 35-7 at halftime, may get to a mercy rule at some point, think the final will be 49-14, which is the same score SC beat Wilmington by last year. Keep an eye on #4 Jax Miller from Avonworth, he’s an excellent high school football player on both sides of the ball.

    Wood vs Cheltenham – would love to see Cheltenham win, but I don’t see it happening, if they gave up 495 rushing yards to Cocalico last week Wood is going run at will on their defense, Expect Cheltenham to put up some points, they do have a very good offense, but don’t see them slowing down Wood’s rushing attack, I think Wood wins 42-28.

  414. Jeff H says:

    @ NW PA – you are absolutely right, we saw the best 2 teams in 4A 2 weeks ago at North Hills, no disrespect to Dallas, they had a great season, including knocking off imhotep in the playoffs, but they ran into a buzz-saw last night in TJ and were never in the game after the first quarter, once TJ got up a couple of scores it was just a matter of how big the final margin was going to be. Pretty impressive when a team averages 46 ppg on offense and only gives up 4 ppg on defense over a 16 game season, I tried to warn you eastern guys Dallas wasn’t going to put up too many points on TJ’s defense.

  415. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, been to Philly lately? I grew up in the NE and the place is unrecognizable to me! Chicken Coops in the backyard, cars parked on row house lawns….back in the day if anyone even thought about parking a car on a lawn the neighbors would give you a blanket party! Iron bars on windows and doors. Crime at an all time high. The Philly Catholic Schools carried Philly for many years, North Catholic gone, Cardinal Dougherty gone, West Catholic barely hanging on, unless some sort of school choice is implemented, I’m sure the PCL population will continue to decline, except for SJP and laSalle. Yet the politicians in Philly tell you all is well! I imagine PJP will continue to add students due to the Philly flight..

  416. Kevin x says:

    Only looked at the D12/PCL football figs, and boy seems like the catholic school are still bleeding students. Updated, non voluntary and success factor adjustments, I assume, classifications for the next two years:

    6A: LaSalle, SJP and Roman
    5A: Father Judge (down from 6A)
    4A: Bonner, Wood, O’Hara and Ryan (down from 5A)
    3A: Lansdale Ca., N-G and Carroll (down from 4A)
    2A: McDevitt, West Ca. and CEC (down from 3A)

    Shanahan remains at 4A, while PJPII is the only Philly area catholic school moving up (via enrollment numbers only, 3A to 4A)

    Imhotep remains, at least enrollment wise, at 3A

  417. NW PA says:

    Kudos to TJ on a great season. They dominated every aspect of that game last night. I said it before and I’ll say it again, the top teams in 4A played 2 weeks ago and that was a one possession game until slightly under 2 minutes left.

  418. mark d says:

    what can i say Gary hat off to TJ i did not not think that any team could crush Dallas like that. they got taken to the wood shed all you can say is congratulation TJ must be one hack of a team,.Remember Dallas got by Berwick and Valley View who were both ranked in the top 10 of AAAA so like i said one heck of a team

  419. D3 Mike says:

    Gary, since you don’t like getting into hypotheticals we can just leave it at Beaver Valley was 1-9 and Middletown was 14-1 the year after they played in the state final. Most seasons they end up playing coaches and defensive systems at Bishop McDevitt, Wyomissing, Steel-High, and Lancaster Catholic with multiple state titles, appearances, and yes – even some wins over otherwise invincible WPIAL programs. Last year’s senior class won 6 PIAA playoff games outside of their own district which was as many as Beaver Falls, Quaker Valley, and Aliquippa – combined. From those objective, non-hypothetical facts, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want to believe about Middletown’s schedule, coaching, and offensive system. The above based on the 48 minutes you actually pay attention to their program each year, all while they play the best team in the state in 3A.

  420. Kevin X says:

    New enrollment figs for next two year cycle…..all sports. Don’t think this takes into account voluntarily playing up and success factor formula.


  421. GaryZ says:

    Ya well it’s convenient to point out specific times in the Middletown games. However, at any point, no reasonable person thought they would win during those 3 games. It was very clear that they were not on a level with whatever D7 team they played. As far as the remarks about a Senior class and one off’s. Well let’s just say, that the Conference all the Beaver Co. teams play in, is BRUTAL. Don’t like getting into hypotheticals, but they would have a very hard time making the playoffs in that conference. I am not trying to be insulting, but the level of play, Athletes and yes coaching would make it real tough week in week out. So I am putting M-Town to rest. Let’s see what Wyo. does vs C.V. I will take C.V. by at least 4 scores.

  422. GaryZ says:

    @Mark D
    Yes, TJ line is that good. I don’t think I need to get into anything else, if you watched the game. Dallas has a Big n Nasty O-Line, well I guess they forgot how to be Big n Nasty vs TJ. Not sure what they do against whoever else, but they flexed on Dallas, and all the Nasty in the world was not gonna help em. I do respect your opinions and insight on Dunmore in previous years. Didn’t wanna sound disrespectful to you. I enjoy reading your posts and insight. #RESPECT

  423. Jeff H says:

    Is it just me or does TJ remind you of the great Wood teams from a few years ago that just ran the ball down peoples throats, granted Wood had a little more high end D1 talent, but very similar style of football, and they even wear the same colors. Granted the wind is a big factor in this game but it is pretty evident TJ is way too physical for Dallas like many of us suspected, and Shane Stump is a tremendous high school quarterback. Very curious to watch the game tomorrow night and see if my feeling that TJ would win 5A is valid.

  424. Old Time PCL says:

    Surprising seeing a few of predictions for Central dauphin over st Joe prep. Anybody see them both play…I know preps banged up and from what I’m hearing no QB mccord but the backup has been pretty impressive stepping up in his role.

    So what type of game should we really be expecting? Does dauphin have the speed to play with prep. I was surprised to see them that close with PCC. Dauphin just scored 65 so prep O may have to keep up which they usually always do.

    I’m going to stay the weekend in Hershey to root on Cheltenham (coach is a judge guy) and as always whoever is playing sjp (ha!) What other game for Friday and Saturday are we most looking forward to?


  425. BCFOOTBALL says:


    Wood is 4A enrollment playing up to 5A in this cycle, probably 4A again by the numbers next cycle, but not sure where they will play.

    Wood 31 Cheltenham 14

  426. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you TJ is too physical for the rest of 4A this year, including Dallas, we’ll see how it plays out. I personally think TJ would win 5A this year, that’s what Dallas is up against tonight, but TJ has a big senior class and graduate a lot, they have been building for this year for the last 3. I agree with New2PA, McKeesport will give TJ a run in 4A next year, they will be #1 & #2 in the preseason rankings in the WPIAL.

    Thanks for the info on Wood, now that you mention it I do recall them playing a few D1 schools 7-8 years ago before they started playing the NJ privates.

    Congrats to Farrell on repeating as state champs with their 10-7 OT victory over BG, I thought Farrell would score a few more TDs, but did not surprise me BG only managed 7 points.

  427. David Mika says:

    Class 1A Final: Farrell 10, Bishop Guilfoyle 7 OT

  428. New2PA says:

    D3 Mike: McKeesport is not playing up this cycle. They will be 4A. People out here talking like they should be favorite over TJ next year.

  429. Kevin X says:

    Decided not to put my neck out on the line, so no weekend predictions from me. Based on my few prediction debacles during the year (granted two were long term, early season, another ECP/Imhotep 4A final and a Coatesville/Harrisburg 6A D1/D3 semi final match-up), and more recently, a DTW win over CD. Obviously not going to make a living off of HS football predictions. I’ll let you guys go on the record and follow your results and give some shout outs afterwards on nice picks (and the opposite will hold true as well).

    Back to H-Burg and CD. I watched on YouTube the regular season match-up between those two the other night, and its still not sinking in how CD ran all over DTW last Friday. Either the Harrisburg ‘D” is really good, the DTW “D’ is really bad (especially against the run) or CD is just improving and hitting their stride at the right time. Guessing more like a combo of all 3. Thing is, pretty sure SJP’s “D” even w/o Trotter, is a lot closer to Harrisburg’s “D” than DTW’s defense.

    Also with that regular season H-Burg/CD game, sorry about going back a few months, but OMG, did Harrisburg ever get F’ed. Was there any fallout from that game ending/time clock issue?? One reason I bring it up, it could have had a real domino effect within 6A D3. If H-Burg had a chance to kick a game winning chip shot field goal, the whole top of the D3 ratings could have been different, and maybe played out quite differently. At a minimum, I think Harrisburg would have had the home field in a championship game against CD. Oh well, water under the bridge at this point……

  430. Tornado Fan says:


    The excitement in the community through the playoffs leading up to the championship games was amazing. In an area that doesn’t have much else going on, it was all people talked about (it probably still is). People always said “last one out of town, turn out the lights” because the whole damn town was in Altoona or Hershey for the game. 1994 when Mt. Carmel, Southern and Berwick all brought home state titles to the region was the best. Hoping for a competitive and injury free championship weekend!

  431. Jeff H says:

    @ Mike A – yeah, I saw that on PennLive, I agree with most of their point spreads, with one exception, they have Central Valley and Wyoming as a pick em, which I don’t understand at all, if I was making a line I would have CV -14, based on recent history of WPIAL success in this class, having seen CV play, and comments on here about how Wyoming doesn’t handle speed well and has a tendency to be undisciplined, all of those to me add up to a fairly comfortable win for CV. I think PennLive put too much stock in CV’s narrow 13-12 OT victory over Aliquippa in the WPIAL title game, following their blowout 45-6 win in the last regular season game, but Aliquippa is Aliquippa, these 2 schools are neighbors and bitter rivals, and Aliquippa played an extremely inspired game trying to win for their QB whose mother died the night before the championship game.

  432. D3 Mike says:

    @Jeff, Wood used to play a few D1 teams before they started their PCL slate. They lost to North Penn in 2012 before blowing NP off the field in 2013 and 2014. Speaking of, does anyone know what class Wood will be playing at in the next cycle? I haven’t seen the enrollment numbers for D12 yet – wasn’t Wood near the cut-off of being 5A (by enrollment) this cycle? And then there’s the success factor to consider. Interested to see where some of the traditional non-boundary powers in the East end up next year (Wood, McDevitt, BC, BECA, Imhotep, etc).

    Also, I saw South Fayette is moving up to 5A. With ECP also moving up, should we just go ahead and put Thomas Jefferson in the 2020 and 2021 PIAA semi-finals awhile? I think they roll today against an excellent Dallas team. IMO, this year’s TJ squad is just too physical for other 4As to handle.

  433. Kevin X says:

    Pretty cool article about Cheltenham and their football program from Forbes magazine of all publications.

    Just wish that their game against Wood could have been played at Upper Dublin Friday night!!!


  434. Mike A says:

    PennLive has SJP a 6 point favorite over CD. Here are the other picks.

  435. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H and NW PA

    Thanks for the more in depth Avonworth info. Ya read my mind!!! I never hear of Avonworth, so did an on-line search and the first thing that popped up was…..Mom drops lawsuit against the PIAA…..rut row, probably not good. Long story short, found limited info (locked out of the Pitt P-G website, too many free articles :)) and figure just ask you guys. Sounds like another kid caught up in the PIAA new, and inconsistent, transfer rule. Like NW PA, I find some of this transfer stuff fascinating as well, but not so much in a good way. More on all of that later.

    Speaking of the PPG, saw a tweet from Mike White that the PIAA is releasing the names of the schools that are “playing up” tomorrow. I don’t know if that means based on the new success factor, voluntarily, from new 2 year enrollment numbers, or all of the above. Some of you western guys have been already talking about WPIAL schools and their new classifications. Guess I missed the memo, but were the new 2-year cycle enrollment numbers released for each school?? I only saw that the PIAA released the enrollment parameters of all sports for each classifications.

    Anyways, tons of off season fodder to kick around, from transfers, first time success factor results, new enrollment figs, PPL rumors, team nicknames/mascots (hint, Neshaminy), but for the next few days…..let the games begin!!! Good luck to all!!!

    ps….anybody plan on being in Hershey at anytime over the next 3 days???

  436. Foleman says:

    Such a sad story, great kid from a great family.


  437. Jeff H says:

    @ D3 Mike – some interesting stats, nice research, obviously we know one of the publics Wood lost to was Penn Hills last year, out of curiosity who is the other public school they lost to? I know they lost to Imhotep in the D12 final in 2015, but you’re not counting charter schools. Another Wood stat is they have either won the state title or lost in the playoffs to the eventual champion since the PCL joined the PIAA in 2008, and that streak continues even if they lose on Friday, which I doubt they will.

  438. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark D & Neutral Observer – yes, Central Valley is loaded, maybe not quite as good as Aliquippa last year, better than Quaker Valley from 2017, and as good or better than Beaver Falls from 2016, I’m expecting them to win by 3 scores and think they likely score 5-6 Tds If Wyoming doesn’t handle speed well they are in trouble, because CV has a bunch of guys that can run, and they have a balanced offense that will likely hit some deep passes against Wyoming’s secondary. If CV wins they will be the fourth different team from the same Beaver County conference to win 3A, I’ll have more comments on that game later in the week.

    Some thoughts and predictions for the games tomorrow

    1A Farrell vs. BG – I think the two best 1A teams played last week when Farrell beat Clairton, if Farrell’s defense is good enough to hold high scoring Clairton to only 10 points I think they will also shut down BG’s offense, Farrell has too much team speed, I’ll pick Farrell 27-10

    4A TJ vs. Dallas – really surprised a lot of you guys think this will be a high scoring game, I assume you realize TJ has given up a grand total of 62 points all year, which is an average of 4.1/game, and the most they have given up in any game was 13 to Erie Prep 2 weeks ago. No one has stopped TJ’s power running game yet, Dallas might slow them down a bit, but they are not going to stop them, and they have a more than adequate passing game when Dallas starts loading the box, think it will be close for a while but TJ wears them down and wins 34-14.

  439. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Just a comment on Wyoming Area saw a few games this year. They are not very well disciplined and I think it will bite them you know where. They had a few cheap shots on Southern’s 2nd team after they were totally embarrassed just glad to see no one was injured. that night.. I do think their undisciplined actions will be their downfall.

  440. PSU88 says:

    Have to say that there is nothing like Championship week for Southern Columbia. Having kids gone through the program. It still gives me chills to watch all the activities for kids, school and community. Their is school pep rally, community pep rally, team meal, team breakfast, community celebration after the game, etc. Not sure what other teams do but Southern kids get to experience something special. Good Luck to all the teams. Stay safe.

  441. NW PA says:

    @New2PA: I would assume that if a team is gonna be 4A next cycle that they would just stay there and not play up. I think a couple more teams are actually moving to 3A as well. I think Meadville may be the only other true 5A team in the district next cycle. I doubt anyone who is voluntarily playing up this current cycle will choose to do so the next cycle.

    Looking forward to some good games the next few days.

  442. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I’m assuming that Central Valley is at least comparable to the last few 3A teams from the West. I don’t think 2019 Wyoming Area is anywhere near as talented as the 2016-18 Middletown teams were. Other than QB#9 Dom DeLuca, no one on Wyoming Area scares me (including the O-line). I also think Wyoming Area (as a team) can be easily rattled and goaded into dumb penalties. They didn’t face much adversity in D2, but I bet they will against Central Valley. I would not be at all surprised to see the game get out of control.

  443. Jeff H says:

    @ District Commissioner – well put, I agree with you SJP is up against it this week, with all their injuries they are now merely a very good team and not a dominant team, they still may win the state title, but the game against CD on Saturday is going to be a battle and I too would not be surprised if CD wins. I give them a lot of credit for their win over PCC last week, they got outplayed and didn’t do much on offense in the 2nd half but were still able to put together an 82 yard drive with under 3 minutes to go when their season was on the line and scored the tying TD with less than 20 seconds to play to send the game to OT.

  444. D3 Mike says:

    * correction, Wood is 38-2 vs. boundary schools (i.e. non-charter public schools).

  445. D3 Mike says:

    I just can’t believe we voted him commissioner of the district. There was no one else in central PA who wanted the job?

    Interesting Twitter discussion about the competitiveness of games since they moved to 6 classes. Half of the state title games have invoked the mercy rule over the past 3 years, with only 3 of the 18 games being decided by fewer than 2 touchdowns (17%). Compare that to 57% when there were 4 classes. Food for thought. Hopefully this weekend reverses the trend.

    I’ll take the same 6 teams everyone else took. Some random factoids:

    6A: Half of CD’s games were decided by a TD or less this year. Since 2011, they are 20-7 in the playoffs with 6 of the 7 losses coming by < 2 TDs.

    5A: Archbishop Wood is 38-2 vs. non-boundary schools this decade.

    4A: Thomas Jefferson is 3-4 vs. D10 and 7-0 vs. all other districts in 8 trips to the PIAA playoffs.

    3A: D2 and D7 have split their 12 all-time state finals match-ups, with D2 dropping all 5 this century.

    2A: If SCA wins, RB Gaige Garcia finishes his career 63-0 as a starter.

    1A: Geographically, Hershey is 13.5 hours from where Farrell and Bishop Guilfoyle should probably be playing tomorrow's game.

  446. mark d says:

    @neutral what do you know about central valley that makes you think that Wyoming area has no chance .Are they that fast becuse i know that Wyoming doesn’t handle speed well.as for Dallas i agree a shoot out but Dallas 42 TJ 38 i think their just a team of destiny

  447. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark D – I have not seen Dallas play but have read plenty about them, and I think they match up pretty well with TJ. I will say TJ has one of the best offensive lines in the state regardless of class, and I am of the opinion TJ is better and would beat either of the 2 schools playing for the 5A title, but 6A is a whole different animal.

  448. Jeff H says:

    @New2PA – thanks for the info, surprised McKeesport is not playing up like they have for the last 4 years, that will help 4A make up for the loss of South Fayette…I think SF is going to struggle to be much above 500 in 5A, given they lost to Upper St Clair the last 2 years and USC was nothing special either year. But yeah, 5A in the WPIAL will be loaded again next year and with ECP playing up that will make 5A even stronger come playoff time.

    @NW PA – completely agree with you there is inconsistency statewide in enforcing the rules, the WPIAL has historically taken a very strong stance against transfers, and are often overruled by the PIAA, but this time the PIAA agreed with the WPIAL, which is very unusual.

    Moronic, ignorant comments like those from District 3 Commish regarding SJP do not deserve a response.

  449. Tornado Fan says:


    1A: Farrell 28, BG 6

    2A: Southern Columbia 56, Avonworth 7

    3A: Central Valley 38, Wyoming Area 28

    4A: TJ 35, Dallas 21

    5A: AB Wood 28, Cheltenham 21

    6A: SJP 35, CD 24

  450. District Commissioner says:

    District 3 commissioner is to be ignored. There are people who cannot be invited to debate because they are incapable. He is one. School districts dividing have nothing to do with “letting kids play”. These are demographic, economic moves deemed necessary by the school boards and the tax bases. Sometimes it puts pressure on the tax base, sometimes it doesn’t. But football is not on the list of concerns. But thanks for trolling. It’s the same thing every year on any board. Local team has great year, local team goes into state playoffs, local team sees speed and size for the first time and loses their sh!t because they thought this was the year the boys would get one. If it isn’t the District 12 “all star” teams, then it is the apartments in the area that the winning hs stashes their best players. Or the family that moved to the area just for football. PS….I think CD pulls this off this weekend. Prep is against the wall here and the Prep people will be the first to tell you that.

  451. Neutral Observer says:

    My predictions:

    1A: Farrell 42, Bishop Guilfoyle 14

    2A: Southern Columbia 49, Avonworth 14 (starts out 49-0)

    3A: Central Valley 56, Wyoming Area 6
 (mercy rule in the first half)

    4A: Thomas Jefferson 42, Dallas 38
 (offensive shootout)

    5A: Archbishop Wood 38, Cheltenham 10

    6A: Central Dauphin 21, St. Joe’s Prep 20

  452. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, I was just checking out the PCN TV website and saw that they changed their ridiculous $12.95 one day subscription to a much more sensible $14.95 monthly subscription (the yearly $34.95 is still available). So if you don’t have PCN for free with your traditional cable service, this new monthly option might work for you now, as all 6 championship games would be available (and on-demand for later viewing within the subscription month). There is a Roku app so you can watch on your regular TV and not be subject to watching on a PC or small screen portable device.

  453. Mark T says:

    District 3 Commish going off the rails. Calling teenage kids cowards is a new low even for the obsessed ego maniacs on this board. What would you have the school do to avoid being cowardice? Close? The Prep has students come from all over the Delaware valley who never play a sport. That’s the makeup of the school. From North Philly to Downington to South Jersey. Been that way for a long time, long before athletics at the school competed on any level in the catholic league. So they decided to give their programs a boost, particularly football.


    Oh well, that’s life. I ran into plenty of unfair advantages growing up. Going to the Prep gave me multiple advantages in not just athletics but also life. I would have went to Samuel Adela if the members or this message board had their way. Now why in the world would I pass up on an opportunity to attend a fantastic academic institution that I continue to make connections from today in my professional life? Because I’m a coward? Or is it because I accepted the challenge of going to high school without having a single childhood friend to go with? Or took on the well over three hours a night of homework? I don’t believe that makes me a coward at all sir I believe that made me successful.

    Stooping to the level of personally insulting these kids is downright sad and quite frankly infuriating. There is no place for that in high school athletics and posts such as those; again calling teenage kids COWARDA, should not be allowed on this board.

  454. Mcd65 says:

    District 3 commish, well I was always interested in your opinions until that rant. Not that you give a damn ,but you sure lost all credibility and respect from me ,

  455. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H/Kevin X: I find the story about the PCC athlete to Avonworth fascinating. A very similar situation happened in D-10 this year with a much different result. I only tell this story to show the inconsistency in how the new rules are enforced. The young man is a great kid from a great family. The athlete transferred from Erie Prep to Harborcreek (A suburb of Erie) after their sophomore season. They requested a playoff waiver and were granted one. I’m not sure why they transferred but it was not in any way financial. Back to my main point, there is NO consistency in how any of the new rules are enforced. Erie High lost another stud to McDowell in the off season and the athlete was granted a playoff waiver. Erie High is no more than 5 miles from McDowell. Millcreek (Erie’s biggest suburb) is more affluent than Erie so tell me the “hardship” exemption. What generally happens in sticky situations like this is the athletes family requests a closed door hearing and no one ever finds out what they said or if it’s in any way true. The kid from Avonworth should have requested a closed door hearing and had his family tell half truths, lies, or exaggerations, it works here all the time.

  456. Frank Gavin says:

    @ District 3 … Why the anger and the shouting–and what in the world does courage or cowardice have to do with this week’s game?

  457. New2PA says:

    I’m assuming all those 4A schools in D10 that played 5A to avoid Erie Prep will now play 4A?

  458. New2PA says:

    Jeff H.:

    Here are the 5A teams. McKeesport is not playing up and Plum, Armstrong, Mars, Hampton and Chartiers Valley dropped to 4A. South Fayette is in 5A this cycle. So 5A is down 5 teams total to 18.

    Pine Richland
    Upper Saint Clair
    Peters Township
    Fox Chapel
    Bethel Park
    Greater Latrobe
    North Hills
    South Fayette
    Franklin Regional
    Penn Hills
    Woodland Hills
    West Allegheny

    At least 13 of these 18 made the playoffs this year. Loaded with P-R, Gateway, Peters Twp, Penn Trafford, Penn Hills, South Fayette, Bethel Park, USC, etc.

    Add in Erie Prep at the West is loaded with teams.

  459. District 3 Commish says:

    Stack Mush Mouth

    -You did not answer the question.
    – Your program is full of cowards that are afraid to compete on a level playing field so they create an All Star team.
    – CD actually split their district in half to create two teams so more kids can play thus weakening what would be one better team…. same as Central Bucks, West Chester and many more. Don’t think your cowardly school would ever do that as it would weaken the “program”.
    – Your coaches routinely show up at youth football games in the Downingtown & Coatesville area to recruit players.
    – Your “district” has 10,000,000 people with a one hour radius to select top athletes.
    – COWARDS!!!!!!!!!!

  460. VIKINGpride says:

    My State Championship picks…..
    A: Farrell 31 – Bishop G 13

    AA: SC 49 – Avonworth 0

    AAA: Wyoming Area 21 – Central Valley 20

    AAAA: TJ 28 – Dallas 24

    AAAAA: Wood 34 – Cheltenham 20

    AAAAAA: SJ Prep 42 – CD 10

  461. Jeff H says:

    @District3Rep & Gary Z – will also add that Middletown had to win 2 games against teams from other districts just to get to Hershey each year, so they were clearly the best 3A team in the eastern bracket in 2016-2018.

  462. MARK D says:

    @GARY Z have you seen Dallas play ??? Dallas offence of line is big strong and nasty>If Tj is that much better than them i think they beat anybody in the state

  463. District3Rep says:

    @ GaryZ

    I’m not sure what games you were watching in regards to Middletown in the finals. Middletown shot themselves in the foot for about 4-5 minutes in each of those finals that blew the doors open. Other than those 4-5 minutes, Mtown showed they belonged in the game.

    BF – Game was 16-13 with 10 mins left. – BF Pick 6 to end the scoring that day with about 3 mins left in game – ended 30-13.
    QV – Game was 7-7 with 4 mins left in 1st Half – 2 quick turnovers deep in own end led to QV Td’s right before half.
    Aliquippa – Game was 7-0 with 4 mins left in 3rd Quarter. And Aliquippa team would probably have beaten over half the state championship teams in Hershey that weekend.

    Don’t get me wrong, the better teams won those games. But to say what you’re saying is not sticking with facts about Middletown and the East.

  464. 6-2 Stack Monster says:

    @ District 3 Commish:

    Assuming that your question isn’t just a thinly veiled, passive-aggressive shot at the Prep that should be directed to your neighbors at the PIAA, here are some responses to it:

    The same number of student athletes that
    – did have to travel 4 hours two years in a row to play a semifinal game
    – did not have a convenient quarterfinal bye
    – do not have their own practice facility, let alone a taxpayer funded stadium to play games in
    – had to pass an entrance exam and are held to a higher academic standard
    – are subject to grown ass adults like you spouting tainted rhetoric and innuendo

    Central Dauphin is a big, talented, well-coached, fundamentally sound, and as far as I can tell, fearless squad that has a legit opportunity to win a trophy on Saturday. No need for you to act as their chief apologist, nor to undermine the efforts and achievements of either squad.

  465. Jeff H says:

    @Philly Boy – if Prep was fully healthy I agree it would be delusional to think CD had a realistic chance to beat them. However, I saw Prep play last Saturday in person and PCC outplayed them in the 2nd half, and I have thought for the last 2 months CD is as good or better than PCC, I know their O-Line is comparable to PCC and if PCC ran on SJP as well as they did it appears to me that CD can as well. I honestly thought Prep would win last week by 3 scores even without McCord, Trotter and the other guys who are hurt, but PCC gave them all they could handle, which leads me to believe CD could very well beat them on Saturday. I might also add they have a much better head coach than PCC and I would be surprised if this game is not very competitive and close in the 2nd half, assuming McCord doesn’t play, the rumors I’ve heard is he’s out for the year with a knee injury so I would be shocked if he plays, its common knowledge Trotter is out for the season, not sure about the other guys.

  466. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X- regarding the Avonworth transfer question, Kyros Thorpe lives in the Avonworth district but played for Pittsburgh Central Catholic the last 2 years and transferred back to Avonworth in July. The WPIAL ruled he didn’t meet any of the waiver guidelines and therefore was ineligible to play in the playoffs, and the PIAA upheld the WPIAL ruling (usually the PIAA overrules the WPIAL decision, but in this case they upheld it). He is a receiver and cornerback and I believe led the team in touchdowns during the regular season. The question entering the playoffs was whether Avonworth was good enough to win the WPIAL title without him and they obviously were up to the task and made it to Hershey. His mother and attorney filed a lawsuit in Allegheny Common Pleas Court on the Thursday prior to the WPIAL championship game on 11/23 seeking an injunction to let him play, but the WPIAL and PIAA threatened to appeal and said if they won Avonworth would be stripped of any playoff victories he appeared in so his family wisely withdrew the lawsuit. They had a tremendous season,15-0 and first WPIAL title in 60 years speaks for itself, but they aren’t going to beat So Col with or without him so at this time its a moot point as far as that goes. I’m not sure this is what the PIAA had in mind with the transfer rules, going from a private back to a public district he’s lived in for years, that seems a bit harsh to me but those are the rules and the family supposedly couldn’t prove he should get the hardship exemption but that’s open for debate and why the family initially filed the lawsuit.

    @New2PA – who moved out of 5A to drop to it18 teams, there were 23 this year, I know Baldwin is going up, but PR coming down, and South Fayette moving up from 4A, so if anything I figured there would still be 23-24 teams in 5A, do you know who dropped to 4A that played 5A the last few years? Did you take into account a school like McKeesport that is 4A but plays up?

    @NW PA – I hear you about Erie Prep not being as dominant in the next few years, but at a school like Prep with Mishler at coach you guys reload and never rebuild, so I am still expecting ECP to be a factor in the state playoffs even in 5A. Wood is unquestionably down this year by their lofty standards yet they still made it to Hershey, albeit catching a big break with Derrick Davis not being able to play, but my point is ECP will still be a factor and someone’s going to have to play well to knock them out and no doubt they make 5A a deeper and stronger class than this year. If you guys played 5A this year Wood would have to have beaten you and Gateway to get to Hershey, no small task.

  467. Matt says:

    My State Championship picks…..

    A: Farrell 27 – Bishop G 13
    AA: SC 42 – Avonworth 7
    AAA: Central Valley 28 – Wyoming Area 13
    AAAA: TJ 21 – Dallas 14
    AAAAA: Wood 26 – Cheltenham 20
    AAAAAA: SJ Prep 31 – CD 10

    Good luck to all teams

  468. 4th and Long says:

    Guys, I don’t want to get too far over my skis or misrepresent my comments about the PPL considering leaving the PIAA. It comes from being told most PPL schools aren’t setting their schedules for next season yet with the reason being given they’re considering leaving the PIAA and are awaiting a decision and further guidance. NE Philly advertising for games on this very site puts my understanding the specifics of that into question. Also, I don’t know why it really makes a difference for scheduling out of conference games, since PIAA schools have no restrictions against playing non-PIAA schools, so I obviously don’t know a lot about this other than to say something is up in the PPL.

    I don’t have huge differences with you guys, in some respects I’m not really sure I disagree with much that’s been said. The one thing I will say is the PPL is a bellwether because I think there’s a lot of dissatisfaction with the state of the PIAA outside of the PPL. It’s a vastly different HS sports landscape than it was 15 years ago.

    I probably should have waited to open this can o worms and let you guys focus on the teams and players heading into finals week, since that’s where it belongs this time of year. I’ve always been impressed by the knowledge of teams and players on this site. Plenty of time to talk about the admin stuff later.

  469. D3 Mike says:

    If only Middletown had the revolutionary offensive system and Lombardi-like coaching staff of a Beaver Falls or a Quaker Valley, they too could have gone 1-9 or 2-7 right after appearing in a state title game instead of just winning 14 and showing up in Hershey again the next year. Definitely coaching and scheme, not one-off senior classes.

  470. Kevin X says:

    @ 4th and Long

    Guess it’s just me, but still not getting the canary in the coal mine reference if the PPL leaves the PIAA. I’m not in the “good riddance” camp that I mentioned before, but I would not be shedding any tears over them leaving either. Is it going to be the beginning of the end of the PIAA?? I actually think it might be good for all parties involved. They can do their own thing, make and play by their own rules, and it wouldn’t restrict them from playing against any PIAA schools in any sport. Just state tournaments. The PAISAA seems to be functioning quite nicely as an independent athletic association, why couldn’t the PPL?? The PPL hasn’t been relevant or competitive in any sport that I know of on a statewide basis recently other than Imhotep in football, and a handful of smaller charter schools in boys basketball.

  471. Foleman says:

    Why would the PPL leave the PIAA? I could not find any info anywhere on the web regarding this. Could it be the new transfer rules? Philly is transfer/recruiting central when it comes to athletes. Charter schools killed PPL football and basketball, not the PCL. Take away the Charter schools and the Phil Pubs would be winning State Championships every year in basketball. In football, the Philly Pubs always played 2nd fiddle to the Catholic league, Take away TEP and the rest of the Charters and PUB football would be stronger but they still would not compete for State Championships.. A few years ago the Phil Pub coaches were pushing for a rule where athletes should play for the local public school where they reside, it went nowhere.

  472. District 3 Commish says:

    How many student athletes competing in the Pennsylvania Class 5A & 6A State Championships do not live in Pennsylvania?

  473. GaryZ says:

    @D3 Mike
    Any of the teams that played Middletown in final could have played them the next day after playing on Friday and blown them off the field. Honestly nothing to do w ‘bye week’ or how many teams. Middletown did not have the athletes or coaching to play w those teams. Honestly I hope this Sat is more competitive, maybe like ya said when it was 10 years ago and 4 classes. However, no disrespect, I wouldn’t count on it. C. Valley blows em off the field. Actually I think they would have got mercy ruled by Class A Jeanette or Farrell in the past few years. I sincerely mean that too. They had no speed and the Offense was so predictable, I actually felt bad. So not gonna debate 10 years ago when their were 4 classes and how District 3 rep just had a bad day. There is a bad day, then there is a team that looks like it has never seen a squad like they are playing before. That was Middletown, something tells me Wyo is gonna be down too on Sat. If they only had a bye week.

  474. phillyboy says:

    I never heard about the rumor of the Philadelphia Public League potentially leaving the PIAA. The PPL to the PIAA: we quit! (Lol) I remember when they joined back in ’04. True story: soon after they joined I had a chance encounter with the superintendent of the School District of Philadelphia, at the time Paul Vallas, at a restaurant in the Roxborough section of the city. I commended him for his efforts to join the PIAA. It was under his direction that it happened. To come full circle, that would be crazy but somewhat understandable. They’re tired of getting dominated in states, but the bigger issue may have to do with saving money. On a side note, I thought the WPIAL should have bargained harder with the PIAA, they should have held their ground about not going to 6 classes.

  475. FrankG says:

    @Tornado Fan & 4th and Long,

    In many ways I wish we could all return to how things used to be–and that includes PCL and PPL schools that were much more community-based than they are now. Open enrollment, which was not done to enhance athletic programs, changed the whole picture for most of the schools (SJP and LaSalle never had boundaries.) Changes in families, the economy (especially how, where, and when people work), technology (especially social media that keep kids and many adults from doing what they used to do), participation rates in youth sports, and the range of sports now available to kids–who would ever have thought that NBC would be showing soccer games from England every Saturday?–all mean that assuming the same sorts of crowds that used to show up at Friday night and Saturday afternoon games will do so in 2019 is probably mistaken.

    One thing we probably agree on is that holding hs games in college stadiums (like Rutgers and Maryland) is a bad idea–zero atmosphere and it makes the games just look like glorified recruiting exercises.

  476. New2Pa says:

    @NW PA: WPIAL 5A only has 18 teams next cycle. So probably only 8 or 12 team playoff. Wonder if they will get inserted into State Semi’s with 18 teams. If not, then possible quarters matchup with D10/ECP. But ya, will be interesting to see state bracket.

  477. NW PA says:

    @New2PA: Erie Cathedral had several transfers last season. When you factor that in with winning states last season and making it to the quarter finals this year they reached enough “points” to be bumped to 5A under the new system. It will be interesting how the state bracket shapes up next year because it’s looking like they won’t have anyone to play in the District 10 playoffs. This could lead to a situation where they have 1 or even 2 weeks off, which as I have discussed previously, happened to them several times over the last couple seasons. Outside of Pittsburgh there are no 5A teams remotely close to Erie and the WPIAL 5A brackets take 16 teams so my guess is they have at least one week off before playing the District 6/9 winner. After that they will could get matched up with a team from the other side of the state (This happened to Oil City this year, they played Southern Lehigh in the round of 16 even though Southern Lehigh is at least 4 hours from Oil City).

  478. Tornado Fan says:

    @4th and Long
    Couldn’t have said it better myself. I was also going to say this year is an anomaly, especially in 4A where ECP, Imhotep, BC all got knocked out in the quarterfinals. Those schools plus Beca made up the 4A final 4 for at least the past 3 years. I read that the public/private ratio is ~20%, so as of this week its right about where it should be for once, but I don’t think most fans would be surprised if at least 2 out of 6 champions are privates.

    I think the main reason for smaller crowd sizes for private schools is that kids are generally not from one local community. Another reason is the blowouts. A school like SJP is a victim of its own success and how they built their program. They get talent from everywhere, blow everybody out locally and then have to travel far to play similar opponents who can match up. How many people are going to travel to Georgia to see them play Marietta or North Jersey to play IMG Academy? Especially if its televised on ESPN. Its a sign of the times but again, its not my cup of tea. I’ll only be watching this weekend to see if CD can pull off the upset.

  479. 4th and Long says:

    Frank G, I agree with you about attendance (participation also) being down. I just don’t see the point to playing the state championship in Hershey when, for example, Cheltenham and Wood are only about 10 miles apart.

    Where I’d disagree with you is about players. A private school can target athletes, giving the school disproportionately good teams for the overall enrollment of the school. I have no problem with that happening, where I take exception is expecting schools held to different standards to compete based on enrollment. Not necessarily a fan of the success formula, either. Sounds like the PPL might have had enough (if the rumor is true) and I don’t blame them.

  480. 4th and Long says:

    Kevin X,
    I think the reason we should care about the PPL leaving the PIAA is they are the canary in the coal mine. Excluding Imhotep Charter and Northeast, football in the PPL is generally speaking horrible because so many of the top players leave for the numerous high quality private schools in the area. However, aside from the moral/ethical matter of saying we don’t care about the PPL, there are a lot of publics in D1 that experience the same basic problems to a lesser degree. What if they decide to leave the PIAA? You’re then talking about somewhere around half the state’s population in a separate organization. It’s a problem in many districts, but nowhere else experiences it like SE PA and the PPL in particular.

  481. Kevin X says:

    @ 4th and Long

    Love the “if I were king” reference, as I am too guilty of that in many instances.

    Now the multiple “Why” questions…..assuming your rumor is credible, why are certain PPL schools considering leaving the PIAA?? Or just District 12?? Why would it garner attention?? Why would anyone care?? Many would actually think that would be a “good riddance” scenario. The only thing I can think of is if they start a movement, as in other schools in other districts follow suit. I think if either the WPIAL or District One as a whole bolt, yeah, then a message would be sent (whatever that message might be) and people would take notice.

    My if I were king thought to the above is I would think the PCL would be more interested in leaving D12 and the association with the PPL (historic pass, but time to look at the present and future and move on) and form say a D13, take along the 8 female D1 Catholic academies, the smaller D1 faith based/christian schools and maybe Shanahan and PJPII. Be a nice private independent SEPA faith/catholic/christian based district.

  482. FrankG says:

    @ 4th and Long,

    Your contrast between public schools playing before large crowds and Catholic / private schools playing before tiny crowds is overdrawn. First, from what I see and read it seems the large crowds watching games between public schools are a whole lot less common than they used to be. Sure there’s Easton-P-Burg but that’s really exceptional. CD will get lots of fans in Hershey, but isn’t that a very short drive for most of their fans?

    Second, the crowd sizes at Catholic / private games vary for many reasons. Very few of the PCL schools have their own home fields, and that creates obvious problems. I think LaSalle had three different “homes” this year, and Roman’s home is probably five miles from the school. The Prep has the worst situation. Widener is far from the great majority of Prep families. I still don’t understand the choice to use that as a home field, though I understand the cost of P-W, along with other problems there, made that unsustainable. Still, the Prep-LaSalle game usually draws good crowds every year.

    Part of the problem is that there are so many blow-outs. This has been especially true of SJP, but my sense is that in several leagues there are more and more one-sided games. Who wants to spend four hours (going to, watching, and going home) a a mercy-rule game? I, for one, would like to see the Prep play more of their early games against regional or national “powers” in the Philly area. It would more directly connect the team with the school community. Maybe the logistical barriers are greater than I imagine.

    I also have trouble with your description of the Catholic / private schools taking students/players from the public schools and using them as weapons to defeat public schools. Some students go to Catholic or private elementary schools. But I don’t see students who go to public elementary schools as “belonging to” a school district or under any kind of obligation to attend the local public high school. With the shrinking of the Catholic school system (for all kinds of reasons) all the PCL schools have to draw an increasing proportion of their students from public elementary schools. Years ago Catholic elementary schools were tuition-free (because there were so many nuns, because lay teachers used to work for even worse salaries than those they get today, and because many more people went to weekly mass and made offerings for the schools), but those days are gone.

  483. D3 Mike says:

    In the past decade, the district 3 rep has made the state finals 6 times in what is now 3A and won it 3 times, including wins over Aliquippa and GCC. That’s out of only 12 schools in 3A and it takes 2+ PIAA wins in the East just to make the 3A finals. So it’s been more a matter of the Beaver County reps being really good and Middletown not playing well in the final the past few years than anything being wrong with Middletown.

    Also, just as you said no disrespect to Middletown I’ll say the same to the teams in the western bracket… but the WPIAL only has 17 teams in 3A yet their winner gets into the state semi-finals, and then that semi-final game is a team that’s rarely top 10 caliber, let alone top 4 caliber. All of the 3A winners have deserved their titles but Central Valley basically just got 2 weeks off before the title game while Wyoming has been out playing multiple teams that are considerably better than either or Bald Eagle.

  484. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ phillyboy Boy, if you are wrong about prep you will be eating CROW instead of turkey. On the other hand I tend to agree but not totally convinced we shall see.

  485. FrankG says:


    From what I hear McCord will not play on Sat. I don’t know whether Leneghan can. I listened to the game and didn’t hear Rightley’s name once, and I’m assuming he didn’t play. He was injured earlier in the year. If Leneghan and Rightley can’t play, that means their best lineman, linebacker, and back are gone from the defense. I know injuries are part of the game and for all I know CD has as many key injuries, but the Prep seems particularly hard-hit right now.

  486. New2PA says:

    Is ECP moving up by choice or because of the success formulation. Did they have that many transfers?

  487. 4th and Long says:

    Foleman and Tradition,

    First, three private schools in the final is still more than mathematically average considering almost 90% of the teams in state are public. No doubt the balance appears to be moving in the right direction towards boundary/non-boundary parity, but I suspect this year is an anomaly, not a trend. In D1 and D12, the publics have an enormous uphill battle against non-boundary schools who beat the publics by recruiting the best players in the public schools. Basically, the publics are having to hand their weapons over to their opponents and then getting beaten with them. “A team beats a roster” might be a nice sound bite, but the reality is closer to the axiom “it’s Jimmies and Joes, not Xs and Os.” Throwing successful public school coaches under the bus because they don’t win state championships is unfair. How they do against equivalent competition is a better measuring stick.

    What’s the solution… I don’t know. I’ve got a lot of my own “if I were king” ideas, but none of them are likely to ever be put forward. One thing that should scare everyone is the rumor a lot of PPL schools are seriously discussing leaving the PIAA. If far and away the largest district, in far and away the largest city in the state, are discussing leaving the PIAA, that had better garner attention.

    I come from a time and place where, when I was playing HS ball, we didn’t have a state championship in football (they do now). I look at things differently from a lot of the posters on this board. I’d rather see high school kids playing in front of big crowds of fans invested in the teams than super teams playing to mostly empty stands in someplace hundreds of miles away in December.

  488. NW PA says:

    A few predictions. 1A: I’m gonna go with Farrell because they fall under my northwestern part of the state and they’ve been here before. 2A: Next. 3A: Central Valley will be hard to stop. Their only loss was to TJ and they kept it reasonable. 4A: Intriguing but TJ all day. I felt the best 2 4A teams played at North Hills HS two weeks ago. Dallas seems to have a great senior class but so does TJ. 5A: Wood I guess but I don’t know much about either team. 6A: If Mcord plays SJP wins, if not I like Central Dauphin.

    @Jeff H: Look for Erie Cathedral to not be quite as good as usual the next 2 years. It had nothing to do with the move to 5A it’s just timing. This year and last year their JV team had low numbers. They will always have talent and be competitive but let’s be honest, you can’t stay on top forever. They had so much success between 2012-2018 that the rest of the state always thinks they will have these juggernaut teams and that’s not realistic. I did hear their freshmen team was pretty good and that this years 8th graders are also pretty good so maybe in a year or two they’ll be back.

  489. phillyboy says:

    St. Joe’s Prep is like a mini Penn State; you lose a starter here or there, no problem, just plug in the next stud-to-be waiting in the wings. Dan Marino goes down, it’s all good, time to bring in Michael Vick — must be nice. You guys are delusional if you think Central Dauphin can beat Prep. Their slow, plodding style works against a soft Downingtown West who surrenders more points than a clueless buyer going to settlement. Prep is going to load the box and stuff the run like nobody’s business. In fact, there will be so much stuffing, you’ll wish you had some turkey and cranberry sauce to go with it. When CD runs out onto the field, it’s going to be reminiscent of that TV commercial where the ball club from the 1920’s donning leather helmets gets their first view of modern day football.

  490. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    I know Trotter is done for the year, but any chance any of the others that you mentioned will be back for Saturday night??

    @ Tradition

    Enjoy the silence on that front for now, b/c if by any chance we have 50% of the champions next week being Catholic schools, you’ll hear that drum beat as loud as ever as early as Saturday evening. Even if not, you’ll still have a few that will never give up that fight.

    @ Jeff H

    Thnx for the Davis info. Yes, 5A should be crazy next year. Wood I believe only have 2 key seniors this year that they would be loosing (De virgilis and Mininger).

    I was following the game on Twitter, and saw a video of the catch there. My initial thought was oh boy PCC got robbed and/or SJP said more pre game prayers. Then I saw a very good still shot, and yikes, he did get that toe down. Good thing he didn’t trim his toe nails pre game 🙂

    I may toss out an Avonworth question to you later……has to do with a transfer issue, if you know where I’m going with that, feel free to jump the gun on me……

  491. GaryZ says:

    I also expect Central Valley to win big as well. No disrespect, but judging on the previous years (I know, that was then), but having Middletown be the rep in Hershey. Tells me that they must not have too many strong teams. Because Middletown got destroyed by Beaver Co. teams all 3 years. So if they kept making it back, year after year, tells me that is not a very strong district in that Class. That team did not belong on the field with any of the Beaver Co. teams they played. I honestly do not want to disrespect Middletown, it’s just hard to believe that was the best of that district.

  492. GaryZ says:

    TJ will blow Dallas off the field. TJ is too big and physical. They play a brutal style of football, however they can beat you running or throwing. The QB, Stump is a D1 Safety. The D is the key to that team. They are so disciplined and relentless. Cherpak is an excellent coach, watching them on film and in person is something to see. Never have kids out of position or making mental errors. I personally do not know, but their weight room program is next level. No disrespect to Dallas, they are gonna hit a buzz saw in TJ. I don’t live in the town or have a personal connection, other than being D7. TJ is just so consistent year in and year out. The amount of D1 talent they put out every year, for a public school is amazing.

  493. Jeff H says:

    I just saw the video of the TD catch by Harrison Jr, one of the best clutch catches you will ever see at any level, I blew it up and watched it a dozen times on my computer monitor. I can also see why the PCC fans initially thought they got robbed, but he did get a toe down before he ended up 4 feet beyond the end line, unbelievable. To say Prep dodged a bullet would be an understatement.

  494. Jeff H says:

    @ Gary Z – don’t know much about Wyoming, need to do a little research, they better have a good secondary or CV will torch them, I will also say I don’t think Central Valley would lose 42-0 against Southern Columbia like Wyoming did, at this point I would make CV at least a 2 TD favorite.

  495. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – Derrick Davis from Gateway got hurt early in third quarter last week against Peters Twp in WPIAL final, he broke a 70 yard run from his own 27 and was caught at 3 yard line and sprained his left ankle on the tackle. He tried to come back on defense later in the third quarter and lasted about 4 or 5 plays before he went down again and did not play the rest of that game, and did not even suit up against Wood, if he plays yesterday there is a very high probability they beat Wood, he’s that much of a difference maker on both sides of the ball. He is a junior, and Gateway is a junior dominated team, all their skill players are back except the QB, but they have had 3 different QB’s the last 3 years and all have thrown for well over 2,000 yards, so I’m sure they will find someone to throw the ball to their great receivers/TE and Davis. Peters Twp also has a very strong junior class, so they will be very good again next year, and as previously mentioned PR is moving to 5A, so WPIAL 5A will be unbelievable next year, throw in ECP moving up and a stronger Wood team and 5A will be loaded.

    @Tradition – completely agree with you, the publics have given a very good account of themselves so far in these playoffs, just like they have done the last few years, all boils down to coaching and the culture at the school and football program.

  496. Jeff H says:

    I took the 2 hour drive today to Altoona to watch PCC vs SJP, thinking it might be close for awhile but SJP would pull away in the 2nd half. Much to my surprise I was treated to one of the best high school games I have seen in awhile, with 3 ties and 4 lead changes, and SJP survived in OT with a come from behind 31-24 victory. SJP got opening kick and drove 50 yards to PCC 40, then stalled and punted into end zone, PCC went on impressive drive with mostly Eddie Tillman runs before bogging down in the red zone and settling for a 33 yard FG. Prep then went on a nice drive capped by a Malik Cooper 37 yard TD run down the left sideline for a 7-3 lead. Central came back and answered with a delayed QB draw for a 40 yard TD run to take a 10-7 lead early in 2nd quarter. SJP went on another drive but got stopped on third and goal at 5 yard line and settled for a FG to tie it at 10. Then, on 2nd down screen pass the ball deflected off the defenders shoulder pad 5 yards back towards the line of scrimmage and was intercepted at 15 yard line, very weird play. One Kolbe Burrell run later and it was 17-10 and SJP carried that lead into halftime.

    Central went 3 and out to start 2nd half, and third quarter turned into a field position game with neither offense able to do a whole lot. Then, with about nine and a half to go in the game Central QB Dom Pieto hit a 51 yard TD pass to Sharod Lindsay who tiptoed down the left sideline to tie the game. SJP got a few first downs but were forced to punt, then Central put together an impressive drive capped by 19 yard Tillman TD run to shock the crowd and put PCC ahead 24-17 with under 3 minutes to play. After a 15 yard personal foul penalty on the kickoff SJP started at their own 18 yard line, and drove to PCC 12 yard line where they faced 4th and 10 with 25 seconds left in the game. On fourth down it appeared PCC had Cooper contained and would sack him to end the game but he somehow escaped and rolled right and thew it up in the back of the end zone and Marvin Harrison Jr. made a tremendous leaping catch to bring them within a point, from my vantage point it was hard to tell if he came down in bounds, and the Central fans were irate, but the sideline didn’t complain that much which leads me to think he did drag a foot just before he crossed the end line, can’t wait to see the replay of that catch.. In OT SJP won the toss and took the ball first against their coaches wishes, he ran onto the filed to defer but too late. First down run gained 5 yards, then Cooper rolled to his left and out ran the defense to the pylon for TD. Central gained a yard on first down run, then incomplete pass on 2nd down,and on third and nine intercepted in the end zone and that was the ball game.

    PCC outplayed them in 2nd half and deserved a better fate, but credit SJP for the comeback, PCC’s D line finally seemed a little gassed on that last drive, but they played their hearts out and if not for a tremendous catch would have pulled the upset. SJP is still a very good team without McCord, but they are far from the juggernaut some on this board made them out to be after they beat up Nazareth last week. If CD is as good as I think they are I expect them to give SJP all they can handle next week, and yes Buddy, SJP is definitely beatable without McCord, whether CD is up to the task next week remains to be seen. I will say Harrison is a tremendous receiver and he was the best player on the field, I didn’t check the recruiting rankings before this post but he has got to be the #1 receiver in PA in the class of 2021 and frankly I don’t think he’s very far behind Julian Fleming this year, I have a feeling he’ll be playing on Sundays in 4-5 years just like his dad.

  497. FrankG says:

    @Buddy SJP does have key injuries: McCord, Trotter, and Leneghan didn’t play at all, and Burrell played with an injury for the last three quarters–and it showed.

  498. Buddy says:

    Did SJP not play their starters? Do they have multiple key injuries? Or are they truly vulnerable?

    I’m hoping it’s the latter. Probably wishful thinking though.

    Seen PCC play ( vs PR) , was not impressed. Virtually no passing game. Relies on one stud RB.

    Helluva defense though. Re. other teams, seen CD play ( vs H-burg), and DTW play ( vs NP), based on that,

    I thought DTW would roll. Guess that shows that previous matches don’t indicate anything.

  499. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike and Foleman

    One of the two points I was going to try to make without sounding like a District One apologist. There are aprx. 20 private schools in and around District One that suburban Philly kids can choose to attend (assuming they meet the admission requirements) between the PCL, Inter-AC and a handful of other Independent private schools. Many of them with strong football programs, you know the usual suspects, SJP, LaSalle, Wood and Malvern Prep, plus you have the likes of EA, Haverford, GA and Penn Charter with nice programs.

    To a lesser degree, is the increase popularity of lacrosse. D1 pretty much rules the roost in lax in PA, and I’m sure many football players play lax as well in the spring, but I’m guessing many kids (and parents) are now choosing lax over football, as they probably are getting more game time opportunities and experience, not giving up half their summers, better college scholarship opportunities, and the lessening of the chances of having their brains turned into scrambled eggs.

  500. GaryZ says:

    Thankfully Middletown is not playin in there 4th consecutive championship. Is there any possibility that the 3A champ in the East can give a loaded Central Valley team a game at all. Just wondering because the 3A from the East has continually gotten thoroughly beaten by the WPIAL teams they have played.

  501. Mike A says:

    @ Eric W/D3 While I agree with what you say, those two losses were very early in the season. They were still looking for an identity those first 3-4 games. CD lost a lot from last year and has improved tremendously since then. They beat Manheim Township (probably the 3rd best team in the state) in their rematch, a team that soundly defeated WWL by 2 TD’s in late September, and also beat a Harrisburg team twice that also beat WWL in the D3 playoffs. They walloped State College 34-13, a team that got edged by PCC on a last second FG. They can pass, if necessary, to open up the running game and vice versa. I’ve seen them live 3 times this year and knew they were/are very good. I think nearly everyone on this forum underestimated how good they had become as the season progressed.

  502. D3 Mike says:

    I have zero data on this but I have to imagine the Philly catholic schools and the Malvern Prep type private schools siphon off more elite talent from District 1 public schools than non-boundaries pull from public schools elsewhere in the state.

  503. Tradition says:

    Can we now all get away from the usual gripe of Private and Charter schools having their own league? Only one Charter school makes out of the first round and the ratio of private making it to Hershey has declined each year.

    This year, 3 out of the 12 schools going to Hershey is private.

    All the rest are public.

    Let the boys play and hold the coaches accountable for the development of their teams. Like coach said, “a team will beat a roster!”

  504. foleman says:

    Mike A, I was also surprised how easily CD moved the ball on DTW defense, in the 2nd half, it was just a question of how many plays it would take for CD to score when they had the ball. When both teams came out on the field for pre game, the CD players looked much larger and stronger than the DTW players. Mike A is correct, I also believe that they would finish 4th in the Mid Penn and MT, Wilson and Hburg in District 3 would handle DTW. District 1 who has the largest collection of 6A teams in the State needs to step it up, 0 State Championships since 2003 is shocking to me. If the Beck’s from N.Penn and Brubackers from Spring Ford cant compete for a State Championship, something is wrong, maybe the 6A pubs in District 1 are their own worst enemy, keeping underperforming head coaches in their jobs.

  505. Eric W/D3 says:

    Quite the performance by CD, however I’m certain that SJP or PCC will have a much better D than DTW. CD’s passing game is decent but their forte is ground and pound, but…if they can’t run it causes their O to sputter. In their two losses to WWL and MT the couldn’t run and they had issues. In their 21-13 loss to WWL their running game was completely shut down and quite honestly their OL/DL were controlled on both sides of the ball. CD had 49 yds rushing and Smith, #34 was held to 39 yds on 15 carriers. CD only had 9 first downs to WWL’s 18. Also WWL OL handled CD’s D line rather easily. Wilson ran for 192 yds on 43 carries. CD had no rushing TD’s and by the middle of the 3Q the CD D line was gassed and WWL ran the ball at will in the 4th Q. I’m sure the SJP and PCC D won’t be giving up 65 next week and will be loading the box. Just curious to see if CD can score next week.

  506. Mike A says:

    DTW was disappointing last night, especially their defense. Timmy Smith ran for 270 yards and CD had 443 yards rushing on 44 carries. Mosey chipped in with another 94 through the air when necessary, which wasn’t very often. The DTW offense was good, aided by two long kickoff returns, but ultimately committed the critical errors that CD needed to put this one on ice early in the 3rd quarter. I’m not sure if the DTW defense had a horrific off night but IMO there a 4 teams in D3 6A that are better than they are. That would include Wilson, Manheim Township and Harrisburg to go along with CD. Gauging from last nights performance my guess is that they would finish 4th in the Mid Penn Commonwealth behind CD, State College, and Harrisburg. Chambersburg and CV (when healthy) may have given them trouble with the ground game and ball control. CD just barely edged both of those teams. I think CD’s tough schedule prepared them for this playoff run.

  507. D3 Mike says:

    Cheltenham is very good. They wouldn’t be playing in the 5A title game if they weren’t. But Cocalico’s defense is not their team’s strength. They gave up 40+ four times in the past 10 games. Cheltenham is about to take a major step up in class next week and unfortunately it looks like another Prep-Wood double to me.

    Cocalico’s head coach retired after the game btw. A great final season for him, though. Shame they were on the losing end of a classic.

    I though most of the games played to script last night. Thomas Jefferson looked impressive. Must be one heck of a weight program for a 4A public school to have a line that size. Hopefully going against Berwick and Valley View all year got Dallas ready enough to give TJ a good game. Surprised Tamaqua got completely shut down like that. Maybe the 3A final will actually be close for the first time in years.

    In 6A, their RB will get a lot of the press but those college-bound offensive linemen for Central Dauphin simply dominated the football game last night. What a performance. Will need to tighten the screws down on defense but CD is certainly peaking at the right time.

  508. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    No (D) and no clue (Chelt)

    Yes, does stink that Gateway’s best player was sidelined for the Wood game. Did that injury just happen last week, or was it a previous injury?? You might of stated this before, but I don’t recall or missed it. Stinks for any kid, especially a senior, to miss games this time of year due to illness or injury. Guess that’s football tho.

  509. Kevin X says:

    I believe i can say that I have come full circle, as I started my 2019 HS football journey back in August in Coatesville watching a Mid Penn Commonwealth team beat a Chesmont National team. The journey concluded last night right where it started, in the ‘Ville with another Mid Penn Commonwealth team beating another Chesmont National team. Weird.

    DTW gave up an average of 42 points in their 5 post season games. That is playing with fire, especially this time of year, and boy did they get burned last night.

    Congrats and good luck to CD, and to the other 11 teams who were (and later this afternoon) victorious this weekend and will be playing for a state championship next week in Hershey. Thanks for all of the other Philly area teams (and Scranton Prep and WA) for allowing me to join you on your season long campaigns. It’s been a fun and enjoyable season!!!

  510. Jeff H says:

    Holy smokes does anyone play defense is D1 anymore, who would have ever thought both the 6A and 5A games would each have more than 100 combined points. I think CD is going to give SJP a game next week especially considering how banged up SJP is. You D1 guys are going to have give us western guys some info on Cheltenham, I don’t know much about them other that they are involved on the winning end of a lot of shootouts, do they have a diverse enough offense to outscore Wood? Gateway threw the ball on Wood very effectively tonight, Gateway GB was 24-32 for 237 and 2 TDs, and that was without Davis, although they do have very good passing attack with a couple of lower D1 wideouts and a mid D1 TE, how good is Cheltenham’s passing attack?

  511. Jeff H says:

    Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving, just got back from out of town. Unfortunately for WPIAL fans and those of you who root for the publics over nonboundry/Catholic schools my analysis of the Wood vs. Gateway was dead on, as Wood won 24-21 on a last second 25 yard field goal, and Gateway star Derrick Davis did not play due to sprained ankle sustained in last weeks WPIAL championship game against Peters Twp. From the account I read Gateway outplayed them but really shot themselves in the foot with 3 fumbles in the 2nd half, two in Wood territory, and 10 penalties, including one that negated a TD pass in the fourth quarter that would have given Gateway a 27-21 lead. Wood did a lot of their damage on long runs, as Kaelin Costello ran for 239 yards on 27 carries including TD runs of 73 and 95 yards in the first half. Injuries are part of the game, but it’s a shame any time a star player misses a game like this, I don’t think I’m going out on a limb by saying with a healthy Derrick Davis Gateway almost certainly wins this game.

    IN 4A TJ and Dallas rolled as expected, that should be a very competitive game next week, 2 undefeated publics in 4A, doesn’t get much better than that!

    Also just saw Farrell beat Clairton 13-10, and will face BG next week, who beat Lackawanna Trail 11-7, I think Farrell wins that game.

    In 3A CV rolled 45-0 over Bald Eagle, I told you guys several weeks ago how good they were, I think they beat Wyoming by a couple of scores next week, although expect that to be a good game.

    In 2A Avonworth beat Wilmington 33-21 and will face So Columbia, Avonworth is very good, I’d say comparable to Richland, they may be able to prevent a mercy rule but expect them to lose by 3-4 TDs, Jax Miller (#4) is a fantastic high school football player at both RB and Safety, he should help keep them in it for a little while.

  512. Mike A says:

    DTW scores with 3+ minutes left. CD leads 65-44. Clock runs out and CD is going Hershey.

    CD 65
    DTW 44


    Two offensive juggernauts tonight. CD’s defense did enough to turn the game early in the 3rd quarter.

  513. Mike A says:

    CD with another long TD run. The DTW defense is helpless against the CD offense. CD leads 65-37. 8 minutes left.

  514. Mike A says:

    DTW scores quickly and CD immediately responds again with a Smith 36 yard TD run. 58-37 CD leads.10 minutes left in game. Timmy Smith approaching 300 yards rushing. Unbelievable scoring pace!

  515. Mike A says:

    DTW with the TD after a nice kickoff return again but CD responds with a Smith 24 yard TD run. 44-22 CD with 3 minutes left in 3rd QTR. Timmy Smith now over 200 yards rushing.
    DTW immediately get another long kickoff return and a penalty and scores another TD BUT CD responds again with a kickoff return for a TD. CD now leads 51-30.Some wild action at Coatesville tonight.

  516. Mike A says:

    CD’s defense is turning the game now. Two quick interceptions and two quick TD’s and CD has upped it’s lead to 37-14 early into the 3rd quarter. Going to be a tough road for DTW to come back, especially if their defense can’t stop the run but still a lot of time left in this one.

  517. Mike A says:


    CD 23
    DTW 14

    DTW is going to have to clamp down on the run in the 2nd half to win this one. CD has ~ 200 yards rushing in the first half.

  518. Jay says:

    FYI both the Dtown-CD and SJP-PCC games are on NFHS.

  519. Craig A Jones says:

    Ok, I know the game was meaningless for most of you but, Easton defeated P’Burg yesterday 16-13. What a great high school football game. Hotly contested till the end. 2 spirited teams, 2 great bands and student sections and a sold out Fisher field at Lafayette College. We don’t care what anyone else thinks, this is what HS football is about, a special game between 2 arch rivals on Thanksgiving day. Was with 2 of my son’s and 2 of my grandsons. Priceless.

  520. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    My hopefully better late than never quick 2 1/2 times live eye test on Wood…..My first impression is a year long big improvement. I left them for dead after the scrimmage with Imhotep, to hanging around for the first half against Peddie in September, to a fairly dominate game last Friday against SoLeHi. Yes, still a run heavy team. They lost their best back (and one of their best juniors) last year, who transferred back to the local public school (yes guys, it is two-way street, kids do transfer out of private schools to public schools in case you were not aware) but Friday they had 4 or 5 guys handling the ball. Main guys were Costello and Pigford. The QB could get you a few yards on the ground if need be as well. Didn’t see much of a passing game (almost non existent against Peddie), but they really didn’t need it, and there was a cold stiff and steady wind during the SoLeHi game. Defense controlled, did what they needed to do, other than the opening drive of the second half against SoLeHi’s vaulted run game. Hard to gauge Woods pass defense (suspect against Peddie), as just lets say that wasn’t SoLeHi’s strong suit. Too many penalties the other night, including good number of personal fouls. A young, second year HC. Thinking they are finding their old time mojo at the right time.

  521. D3 Mike says:

    Re: 4A, L-S is a great story but the Bishop McDevitt / Berks Catholic district winners from the past 4 years would have beaten L-S by a few TDs. And the best those teams did in the semis were a couple of 2-3 score losses by BC to ECP. Everyone knew since September that 4A was down in much of the state due to the transfer rules hitting all of the non-boundaries in 4A – with D3 being down as much as any district. Congrats to L-S for taking advantage of the opportunity but this is where the ride stops.

    Now L-S did play Cocalico and Manheim Central (in addition to McDevitt and BC) earlier this year so I don’t expect them to be in awe of TJ’s pedigree, but they also haven’t seen the size and physicality they are about to see this weekend. Their best bet is a TJ letdown after the ECP win but I doubt that lasts past the first quarter, if it happens at all. I’d expect something like 42-14 Thomas Jefferson and agree it will be TJ & Dallas in a great 4A final.

    Other than St. Joe’s Prep, I couldn’t even guess at the 6A & 5A outcomes. I will say I expect the 6A games to be lower scoring than everyone seems to think. PCC and CD both have great defensive lines and it might take the offenses some time to get rolling. 5A, I know nothing about Cheltenham and I thought Cocalico was the third best team in the district all year so that might well be the consolation game. I just hope Gateway doesn’t lay an egg like they did a couple years ago in the other semi. I’d be shocked if it wasn’t Central Valley and SCA winning 3A and 2A.

    1A is interesting. I think those teams have all played for and/or won a bunch of state titles? Pound-for-pound, I’d expect Farrell vs Clairton to be a doozy of a game. I think I read that Farrell’s first team has outscored 1A opponents 17,000 to 0 on the year or something absurd like that. And of course Clairton is Clairton. Any of the western guys have thoughts on that one? As a 1A alum, I still have a soft spot for Ironman, two-way football.

  522. JC says:


    I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I’m a fan of an EPC North team but I can acknowledge that mandatory crossover games do not help anyone. While some of them might be competitive, most of them are mercy rules by halftime, and that does nothing to help struggling programs get better, nor does it help test playoff-bound teams. Even if it’s just one week, the EPC needs to let its teams seek out non-conference opponents. If Whitehall and East Stroudsburg South want to play each other as a non-conference game because they’ve been competitive games and they’re both 5A teams, fine. Let Parkland test itself against D1 or D3 teams, and let Allen or Dieruff play schools they can compete against.

    Honestly, what I would like to see is the EPC split into three merit-based 6-team divisions for football. Have 2 or 3 weeks of crossovers to maintain rivalry matchups. And then you get 2 or 3 weeks where teams can schedule non-conference the way they want to. The current structure is already basically merit-based, just go all-in and call it what it is, and make it so that there’s an even number of teams in each division.

  523. Jeff H says:

    @Deo – Pittsburgh Central Catholic has a very good defense, with four D1 players on the D-line, but their offense is pretty mediocre, they are going to have a lot of problems moving the ball on SJP’s defense. I think Central’s defense might keep them in it for awhile, especially if SJP QB McCord doesn’t play like he hasn’t the last 2 weeks, but PCC’s defense eventually gets worn down, if McCord doesn’t play PCC probably loses by something like 31-10, if he does play give SJP a few more TD’s, and maybe PCC scores one in the fourth quarter when the game has already been decided. I think the CD vs. Dwest game is going to be very competitive and could go either way, I’m leaning to Dwest, but wouldn’t be surprised if CD wins.

    In 5A it’s pretty wide open, winner of tomorrows game between Gateway and Wood will be the favorite in Hershey, think that game is a tossup, especially if Gateway star Derrick Davis is hindered by the ankle sprain from last weeks WPIAL championship game. He’s their breakaway threat on offense, and all over the field on defense and has offers from every major school…i.e. Alabama, Ohio St, Penn St, etc. They have a lot of other very good players and some other D1 recruits, but if Davis is not 100% or close to it I think Wood will win. Don’t know a whole lot about Cheltenham, the D1 winner, should be a competitive game between them and Cocalico from D3.

    In 4A TJ is the favorite after finally getting past their nemesis Erie Prep last week, they have one of the best offensive lines in the state, and think they roll over Lampeter Strasburg tomorrow, LS had a great run through the D3 playoffs, winning as a #8 seed, but I don’t see how they will slow down TJ’s power running game. In the other semi-final think Dallas is a pretty big favorite over Jersey Shore.

    @NW – I agree the WPIAL takes too many teams, but there are very few big schools in the western half of the state outside of the WPIAL. Only way to avoid byes is to go to a shorter playoff, like 5 weeks instead of the current 6, there are just not enough teams to fill out a 6 week playoff with 6 classes.

  524. New2PA says:

    Deo – PCC is a good team, but I think SJP will be the first team they play all year that will be able to completely match up with them up front. Also, a disadvantage that they will have vs. SJP is that 3 of their 4 DL also have to play offense. That will be tough against a talented and seasoned SJP team. PCC offense is usually ground and pound, but the last two games that hasn’t worked and they have thrown the ball to score. If they can do that again, they will be dangerous as I don’t think they will be able to run against SJP. If SJP QB doesn’t play, I think it will be close until late. But if he plays, I think its a 3-4 score game in the 3rd. So, to answer your question, they are good, but not close to the ’15 or ’16 teams.

  525. David Mika says:

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  526. Deo says:

    Haven’t been able to follow high school football this year but hope to watch at least the 4A through 6A semi-finals. Who are the favorites & is Pittsburgh Central Catholic the real deal this year?

  527. NW says:

    @D3 Mike: The more I think about it you are correct about Erie Cathedral. Even before the 2016/2017 cycle they always had a bye week. From 2012 until 2016 they never had to play the D6/9 champ that only started last year. Most years there were 4 teams in the D10 finals that only changed in 2016. It has something to do with the PIAA I’m not sure why some teams have a bye. The brackets are set up weird. The WPIAL doesn’t help by taking too many teams. Other areas are also guilty of this. It messed up the state brackets.

  528. NW PA says:

    @mark d: I agree with you and others about the moving up. SC has a once in a lifetime class I see no reason they should have to move up. If they chose to do that then great, that’s fantastic and makes for better football but they would roll every 3A team in the state and probably every 4A team minus the big names (TJ, Cathedral, whoever else). It seems that these special classes happen every few years so I’m not sure why people demand they move up.

    @D3 Mike: you are partially correct about ECP. In the 2016/2017 cycle, Erie Cathedral had no team to play in the District 10 playoffs because every team moved up avoid them. On top of that the state bracket was different so the District 10 winner didn’t have to play the district 6/9 champion in the round of 16. On top of that, one of those years (I think 2016 but I could be wrong), Obama Academy opted out because they were like 1-8 on the season. So essentially Erie Cathedral played one playoff game in a 3 week period before facing the WPIAL champ in the quarter finals. I don’t know anything about the Central Dauphin bye week so I’m gonna stay out of it. Happy Hollidays.

  529. D11Guy says:

    @Craig A Jones As a longtime D11 guy myself, the problem is not St. Joes..It is PA football as a whole but especially D11 EPC South/North have taken big steps back in talent. PCL joined PIAA in 2008. That year I believe St Joes or Lasalle were state champ favorites that year. Parkland who was 7-4 played St Joes first game of the season in 2008 and lost 20-13. Lasalle was upset by a GW team with future NFL talent. I believe Liberty (D11) won the state championship and was a nationally ranked team loaded with D1 talent. Liberty went to 3 State finals in 4 years and had talent for about 8 years as good as any private school. Parkland went in 2007.

    Following years for D11:
    2009: your school Easton should have beat Lasalle but lost 17-14.
    2010: again Easton loses to Lasalle 19-7. ACC(Loaded with talent) whooped an FBS loaded Archbishop Wood team and Bishop McDevitt. ACC also Beat D-Town east who was loaded with FBS talent as well.
    2011: Nazareth had a chance to win late in the forth quarter but lost 41-33. ACC (5-5 in regular season) played a nationally ranked Wood team and got blown out which should happen.
    2012: Parkland loses to Lasalle 28-7
    2013:Parkland loses to St Joes 21-10 (Respectable)
    2014: Parkland(Loaded with Junior D1 talent) loses to St Joes 34-30 and had the lead late in the 4th. Could have won against one of the better Prep teams.
    2015: Parkland(Loaded with D1 talent) beats Lasalle and makes it the state final losing to Pitt Central Cath 21-18.
    2016: Parkland loses to St Joes. 38-17
    2017: Parkland loses to St Joes. 49-14
    2018: Freedom loses to St Joes. 42-14
    2019: Nazareth loses to St Joes 45-24(Nazareth scored 14 points after game was in mercy rule so really was closer to 45-10).

    2008: State Player of the Year- Anthony Gonzalez(Liberty)
    2010: State Player of the Year- Brendan Nosovitch(Allentown Central)
    2011: State Player of the Year- Daniel Harding (Nazareth)

    How does your area go from multiple state players of the year and multiple state finals and some champions. To routinely getting blown out by D12 the last couple years. Its crazy not to acknowledge the downfall. Also D11 only plays within its own district so we beat up on a weak EPC North while other districts schedule other district powers of out of state competition to be more competitive. Parkland

  530. Jeff H says:

    @ Mark D – that 2016 Steel Valley team had a couple of D1 transfers and were dominant that year, which is the only year they’ve been a factor statewide, they did win the WPIAL title last year but were crushed by Wilmington in the next round, who of course was crushed by SC in the final. I did say on this board back in 2015 that BG should have moved up to 2A during their run because of the advantages they had as a non-boundary school. Regarding Clairton, as good as they were during their 66 game winning streak it’s not like they were mercy ruling every opponent, at least not in the playoffs, if you go back and do a little research that’s available right on this site you’ll see that in 2009 they beat Bishop McCort in the state final 15-3, in 2010 they beat Riverside 36-30, in 2011 Southern Columbia 35-19, and in 2012 Dunmore 20-0. The point was SC has been absolutely crushing teams like no other small school has done in the 31 year history of the state playoffs, and with their great senior class one would think their kids would have welcomed the challenge of trying to win 4A or 5A these past 2 years instead of steamrolling everyone is 2A. I for one would love to see how they would fare against Thomas Jefferson this year in 4A and see if their defense could hold up to TJ’s power running game, as TJ has one of the best offensive lines in the state regardless of classification.

    @Jut – I don’t recall anyone saying D3 is a stocked with great teams, they do play pretty good football in D3 and historically have had some very good teams, if you recall last year they had 3 state finalists, tied with D10 for the most of any district, and ahead of the WPIAL with 2, so it’s not like they haven’t won any state playoff games recently…don’t you remember Middletown going to the 3A finals the last 3 years. No one has said any district deserves byes this late in the playoffs, the fact is with 6 classes there are less than 100 schools in each class, and the byes are due to not enough teams in certain geographical areas just like D3 Mike stated, so you can drop your conspiracy theory that the PIAA gave D3 all the byes due to favoritism.

  531. Brian says:

    Mark D, Because when someone is successful for so long they have to complain about cheating or find faults with the program to make themselves feel better. Instead of trying to work harder and get their programs to develop a system that breeds success they want the successful teams to move up to make it easier for them to reach the top. Never understand that logic, you’re too good so move up to a higher class out of the one you belong in. Imagine the feeling for the team/community that finally ends Southerns streak. That will be amazing for them. I remember when line mt. beat southern in 2007 after 5 consecutive state titles and like 17 straight district titles. The line mt. team literally stood as southern left the field and clapped for them for the run they had. I never seen anything like that before.

  532. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    We’ll see what happens Friday night. If DTW wins, I may just make the trip out to Hershey next Saturday for a 3A/6A double dip. See who ends up playing and the weather. Frankly tho, I’ve been loosing more and more interest in the finals each year, between teams I don’t care about, the same old same old teams (will have some fresh faces this year tho), uncompetitive/MR games, and the crappy weather. Been finding myself in Souderton’s gym Friday and Saturday for their annual basketball tip-off tournament. BTW, I watched the Harrisburg/CD game on YouTube last night (DTW/C’Ville game tonight). Thought I was watching Coatesville with all of the Harrisburg penalties. CD obviously has a nice team, and a good southpaw QB, but I’ll have to give the edge to DTW. Too many offensive weapons with the best PA Senior QB this year.

    @ Jeff H

    I’ll try to toss up some thoughts on Wood here tonight. I’d actually like hear your thoughts (or any western guy thoughts) on the Clairton/Farrell game.

  533. JC says:

    @mark d: What are you talking about? I remember several people calling out Clairton and Guilfoyle saying they should play up for competitive reasons. It’s not all about SCA. Don’t just make stuff up.

  534. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ mark d I agree with you on your points. Not one word was ever said. As being a Dunmore bucks fan I also have seen first hand the class act that Southern is. What appalled me is the comments about running up the scores. Roth does not do that. In fact some 2nd team have more playing time than the starters I have been told. LOL. the next team to beat Southern will feel like they won the Super Bowl I would like to be a member of that team. As always this time of year Good Luck Southern Tigers. From a Dunmore bucks fan.

  535. mark d says:

    why is everyone on SCA what about Steel valley a few years ago who mercy ruled everyone .No one was talking about Clairton moving up when for 4 years they ran over everyone in their class or Bishop Guifoyle who did it for 4 years ?? why all of a sudden is a big issue with Southern becuse thier have a great team. Their a good chance that Wyoming area will be a AAA finalist and Southern beat them 41-0 ???.Just an thought with the non boundary schools vs boundary if you non your AAAAAA you can get kids form anywhere regardless of you school size so you AAAAAA

  536. D3 Mike says:

    D1 *had* to play Wood and Prep prior to Hershey. Obviously, this cycle has been different.

  537. D3 Mike says:

    Jut, do you play the constant victim IRL, too? Or just football forums? No one said D3 deserved byes. I don’t work at the PIAA but I’d bet whatever you want to put up for charity that the 1A and 2A byes were geographic. ECP used to see the same thing just because there was no one for them to play within hours of Erie. The western guys can correct me, but I seem to remember years where they played once in the first 3 weeks of the playoffs, right?

    There just aren’t enough small schools to play in SE PA and they don’t want to try to find a stadium and force teams to drive 2+ hours for a round of 16 game. More importantly, why do you ignore what’s already been stated? The 1A team was 3-9. So who cares? The 2A team lost to Southern Columbia. Those were the only byes outside of 6A and they were, obviously, meaningless. Yet you’re still on here crying like a word Dave will block me for using?

    Re: success, I already posted the eastern playoff results since D12 joined. It’s pretty much been a handful of D3 schools, Southern Columbia, and Philly all-star teams that have had success getting to and winning in Hershey in recent years. (no, I don’t care about Berwick’s 1993 state title, sorry). Those are objective facts, but I’ll even put an asterisk next to those facts by admitting that D1 has almost all of their teams in two classes – and the two classes that have to play Wood and Prep prior to Hershey.

    That said, outside of SCA, non-boundary football in eastern PA is just not good compared to the WPIAL so you are misinterpreting what was said, if you’re referring to me. D3 isn’t great, at all. It’s just less bad than a couple of districts in the East which are, currently, terrible. So while I don’t think anyone “deserves” a bye, I’m also not losing much sleep over it.

  538. Jay says:


    NFHS streamed all the PA state finals last season, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t this season. And what I also like is that for the next two weeks after our champions are crowned, you get to watch the business end of state playoffs such as Texas, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, and lots of other states that finish after us. Some seriously good teams and competitive games in large packed venues. Just watched Bishop Gorman out of NV lose the other night in a crazy entertaining game. It’s well worth the monthly price.

    Be warned however that the state finals in Texas (6A, 5A, and maybe lower I forget) are aired by Fox and aren’t on NFHS. Can’t remember if 2A through 4A finals were aired on NFHS or not. And 1A is 8-man football in Texas, which was fun to watch for about five minutes for me.

    Of course you can always find someone streaming it on YouTube, like this dude last year for both 5A and both 6A finals (not sure of your familiarity with Texas football but there are two divisions per level for a total of 12 state finals, three per day over the course of four days at Texas stadium). Just propped his computer up in front of his TV, adjusted it until the commenters told him that’s perfect keep it there, and then we had a viewing party LOL

    And then other sports are aired too of course. I’m really only into high school football but there are all kinds of choices. I’ve totally been rocking girls volleyball state championships lately.

  539. Jut says:

    @Eric W/D3
    Hey I could name all the state champions in other districts too lol. All I was saying was District 3 got all these byes in state playoffs which is a joke. Someone said their district is staked with great teams but can win a state playoff game. Just stop thinking district 3 is so great and better than other districts and deserve byes lol. Win a state game maybe you could say something.

    As for SCA I’m sure everyone wished they played up in 3a or 4a or maybe 5a but they won’t. They like mercy ruling teams by halftime in state playoff games. They have fun with it. Heard ppl say this before that they shouldn’t move up everyone else should get better at playing to their level. But other teams play up cause they are so much better than the class they play in. Why doesn’t southern?

    Also love to see these private and Catholics losing to really good Public schools whose kids have been playing football with each other since 5th and 6th grade. You see whole communities at the games their games. These all-star teams have like no fans attend games cause they barely know the players since they are all different every year.

  540. Craig A Jones says:

    Wow, what kind of statement is that says Nazareth can only get part-time football players. You do know that is what high school sports is all about. Kids playing sports for the love of the game and playing multiple sports in high school. It’s mainly the privates where kids concentrate on only 1 sport. Now I know there are probably some who play multiple sports. But, we know their training is yr round and I for one understand it. They’re trying to get scholarship money. I was a blue collar worker and I told my sons if you want to go to a private college or university you’ll need to wrestle because wrestling is the ticket to scholarship money at Easton. My one son did as I said and got scholarship and grant money to a Div 1 school where he was a 4 yr starter. So I do get it. One of our best players at Easton this yr is a 5’9″ 185lber who plays ILB and tight end on offense. He plays for the fun of it. He just committed to the US Military Academy for Wrestling. I’m not putting anybody down, if that’s what everybody wants just a handful of teams to compete every yr for a championship have at it. Just don’t give try to tell me it’s a level playing field.

  541. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – yeah, I guess take what you can get from the PIAA, if they were going to move it back why not just make it a 7pm game, which is more convenient for most people. Saving money on lights? The inner workings of the PIAA never fail to amaze!

    Since you have seen Wood a few times this year why don’t you provide a little scouting report, and I’ll do the same for Gateway since I’ve seen them twice. I assume Wood is still primarily a power running team like they were in their glory days? I think this game is going to be very close, particularly if Derrick Davis is still bothered by the ankle sprain, which I’m guessing he probably will be based on how he was limping after the game on Saturday night.

  542. HavenPride says:

    Does any have thoughts on the new transfer rule that went into affect last yr (I think) having an impact on the non-boundary schools? If you transfer you can’t play in playoffs following year, if you transfer after freshman yr. I think this has reduced the yr to yr transfers which I think will even out the playing field a bit as we go. Is this already starting to impact some of the schools who previously had multiple transfers yr to yr? I personally didn’t like the rule at first but I am thinking it may actually have an impact.

  543. Kevin X says:

    That’s what I would have liked to have seen last weekend, an I-78 6A quarterfinal game between D3 and D11/CD and Nazareth. But guess tho someone else then would have had to have a bye somewhere. If it was SJP, that would have went over really well.

  544. Brian says:

    Route 54 a southern is the host district this week. Richland is a district 6 team. If district 6 was host district then it would be out bald eagle area or centra mt area. Last week southern was the visiting team because district 3 was host district that round. However district 3 playoff sites were further south and upper dauphin didn’t want to go south so they asked for it to be at Selinsgrove.

  545. Jeff H says:

    @Winslow Carter – in case you missed it last year public schools won 4 out of 6 state titles, they also won 4 out of 6 in 2017 including 6A, and they will likely win at least 4, if not 5 this year. You also must have missed public schools Thomas Jefferson beating Erie Cathedral Prep last Friday and Dallas beating Imhotep. The best public schools have proven over the years they can compete and sometimes beat the private schools, yet we have people whining about the unfair advantages the private schools have, which sends the wrong message to kids. I’m not saying the private schools don’t have some advantages, they obviously do, but a good public school program that has kids playing together since grade school has an advantage as well. A great example of that is Clairton, they have kids that have played together since they were 5 or 6 yrs old and if they beat a very good Farrell team this week, and I think they will, they probably win a state title next week, possibly against a Catholic school. All this complaining is about the dominance of SJP, they have a phenomenal junior class, we’ll see what happens in 2021 when they have all graduated, I just don’t see them winning 5-6 or more state titles in a row, when a public school wins 6A again, and they will, are you still going to complain about the private schools?

    @Route 54 – Richland is very good, but SC is so much better than everyone else in 2A they will likely win this game by 4-5 scores, and could be a mercy rule in the 2nd half. Why SC didn’t compete in 4A or 5A the last 2 years with their once in a lifetime senior class is beyond me, guess they enjoy mercy ruling every team in the playoffs…not good for the sport.

  546. Kevin X says:

    Looks like they pushed back the kickoff of the Wood/Gateway game to 3p. Small improvement, take what you can get I suppose.

    @ Jay

    Thanks!! I may finally have to pull the trigger on that site and check it out. Do you know if they are going to stream the PIAA championship games from Hershey next week?? I think I’m like you, no cable, therefore no PCN.

  547. Buddy says:

    Did someone say DTW/CD is live stream? If so, where?

  548. Route54 says:

    Southern Columbia vs. Richland

    My first question is why this game is being played at Selinsgrove. I was expecting a location such as lehighton or Northern Lehigh.

    I’m also wondering about this Richland team. Richland cracked the top 25 for the first time in school history. Is this game worthwhile to seeing or will this be another 2nd quarter mercy rule.

  549. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    I noticed today on the streaming schedule that Wood vs Gateway will be streamed on NFHS. Not sure if you have it but it’d certainly save you a long drive!

  550. Winslow Carter says:

    The PIAA state playoffs is a joke. You have all star teams who recruit the best players on their area and elsewhere vs public schools who had a great season. The public school teams are getting buried and it’s not fair nor fun to watch. Those kids don’t deserve to go like that. That’s not what high school football is about. Parents and other grown folk have damaged the high school sports atmosphere. And it’s quite embarrassing.

  551. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X – Last year Wood played Penn Hills in the semi-finals in Chambersburg, which is about as close as you can get to an equal distance between Philly and Pittsburgh. I’m also not a fan of the 1pm Friday games, what the PIAA should have done was have Wood play Gateway at 1pm in Altoona on Saturday afternoon and then SJP vs. PCC at 6pm or 7pm. And it’s not like Gateway doesn’t have to travel, as Altoona is 2 1/2 hours from Monroeville, if anything the Friday game is a disadvantage to Gateway this week because it gives Derrick Davis one less day to recover from his sprained ankle, and as you noted they played Saturday night, which gives Wood an extra day.

    @ Craig A Jones – there are not enough private schools in PA to have separate playoffs in football, there are really only a handful of powerhouse privates across the state, and everyone who follows football knows who they are. If you have a workable proposal to have separate playoffs I’m all ears, because I have not heard of one yet that’s realistic or practical, all it would do is further diminish interest in a sport where participation and attendance are already declining. And whether you want to admit it or not D11 6A football has been on the decline for several years, do you honestly think Nazareth would have beaten the D3 or D1 champ this year?

  552. The Joneses says:

    @CraigJones also Nazareth was happy to have played and competed in that game. It’s attitudes like yours that impedes kids development and growth. They have 22 D1 kids and we only have 1 so we don’t have a chance. The thing that always makes the underdog win is there are more people pouring confidence in them than there are people counting them out. In the real world parents can’t advocate and lobby for the spot to get the top prize for the kid (unless of course the family owns the business). Prep did have 2 loses and they were both games they could have won. Nothing near a running clock. I saw the IMG game and prep had 5 turn overs and still lost by 1 score with a chance to win in the end. You can’t choose your champion. You beat them.

  553. The Joneses says:

    @CraigJones also Nazareth was happy to have played and competed in that game. It’s attitudes like yours that impedes kids development and growth. They have 22 D1 kids and we only have 1 so we don’t have a chance. The thing that always makes the underdog win is there are more people pouring confidence in them than there are people counting them out. In the real world parents can’t advocate and lobby for the spot to get the top prize for the kid (unless of course the family owns the business).

  554. Kevin X says:

    @ Craig

    I’d say field hockey and lacrosse in PA are also both top 5 HS sports nationally.

  555. The Joneses says:

    @CraigJones I too was at the game. You are clearly one who has issues with Prep. I am not from Prep. My son was on the last LaSalle team to beat prep. I saw sportsmanship. I say Prep #16 reach to help the defender up who was trying to sack him and his hand pushed away. I saw pushing and shoving after the play. IT’S FOOTBALL. This isn’t your participation trophy football. If you were truly watching the game, you would have saw #2 from Prep play receiver, returns punts and play corner. You would have see number 84 play receiver, and play on special teams (kick and punt return). Prep gets football players on the their football team (although I learned the kicker was all about soccer until someone saw him and asked him to try kicking). You want to blame the PIAA and Prep because Nazareth can only get part-time football players. If what you say is correct about PA not being able to compete Nationally for football than you should be behind prep competing with those teams and putting PA on the map.. I guess it only works for you if someone how a small school with a big band and part-time players do well. Even with their backup quarterback.

  556. Kevin X says:

    @ Guy

    Good question regarding hoops. I’d like to know that as well.

    As far as enrollments, its on the PIAA website. They just announced the new parameters for the the next 2 year cycle, but here are the current numbers……


  557. Foleman says:

    Craig A Jones, if you don’t recognize that PA football is on the decline then let me quickly educate you. Your an Easton fan, remember the 1991 team-Juan Gaddy-Superstar RB, Jones, Billman, Libiano, Lamas, Jones, Mazzarese etc, they beat everyone in the powerfull Lehigh Valley-Beca-With the future #1 HS QB Dan kendra, BECA won 2 State Championships, Allentown Central Catholic-won 3 state championships. Parkland. They lost to the Central Bucks West juggernaut in the Eastern Final-CB West and Berwick-2 Public Schools were the St. Joe Prep of yesteryear. Stefanik is a great player, however, HE PROBABLY DOESN’T EVEN START on the 1991 Easton Team. Look at the Big 33 rosters of 20-30-40 years ago compared to today, the talent is not even comparable! Football and even wrestling is dying in Pa. Your going to see more co-ops in both sports happening in the next few years as many schools are going to be dropping their football and wrestling programs.

  558. JC says:

    @Craig Jones

    The thing is, this year has shown in 1A through 5A that traditional public schools can still compete (in football at least), so splitting the brackets completely would be overkill. In 6A, SJP is really an anomaly in that they are a team with designs of competing on a national level that’s competing for a state championship. With more of these teams popping up around the country, I wonder if we will start seeing multi-state conferences and playoffs for prep teams, almost like a pre-NCAA. It certainly feels like that’s the way we’re headed.

  559. mark d says:

    @neutral defense and ball control how about Dallas just out scores them lol

  560. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…I agree….Prep and Wood game should have been on Saturday.

  561. Kevin X says:

    This Wood/Gateway game @ 1p on Friday in Altoona is asinine. If you are going to make Wood travel out there, at least make it on Saturday. This also gives Gateway another day, since they played Saturday night. Do a 1p and 6p doubleheader in Altoona on Saturday if need be.

  562. Guy says:

    Is there a high school basketball site similar to this one?

    As someone stated earlier, is there a cut off to how many kids needs to have to be sat 6A, 5A?

  563. Craig A Jones says:

    I honestly don’t understand what you people on this forum don’t get. Nothing wrong with 6a in Pa. Anybody who knows anything about high school sports knows that the only sport in Pa that can compete nationally is Wrestling. Pa is one of the top 3 states for Wrestling. Football has never that I know of been as good as Florida, Texas, Georgia only to mention a few. The point was this The EPC Easton plays in as a whole doesn’t have as many D-1 recruits as SJPrep. I don’t want to hurt any high school kids, this is about fairness. Nazareth didn’t have 1 D-1 recruit. To put together an all-star team and then allow them to compete against teams who can’t isn’t an equal playing field. Pa should separate the privates and charter from the public schools. Then let’s see how the all-star teams do. You know to give you an example, a couple yrs ago BECA won the state wrestling team tournament. They had 1 loss and you know who it was against? That’s right another private Wyoming Seminary oh the score you say 60-0. So don’t talk to me about the state of 6a in Pa. I wonder how great STPrep would be against other schools like themselves. I did notice they had 2 loses.

  564. Tornado Fan says:

    @ Craig A Jones

    I agree, I would much rather watch Easton vs Phillipsburg than a SJP. That is the kind of atmosphere I think makes HS football great. SJP certainly has a ton of talent, but I don’t really have much interest in watching them other than to see if a public school can pull off the upset. I don’t find it impressive at all that they are playing for a state title every year along with Imhotep and others. Nice to see Dallas get the W this week!

  565. Neutral Observer says:

    @Kevin X

    In a perfect world, I’d give the 1A and 4A semi finals the Friday night games since they will have the shortest week (playing on Thursday 12/5). I guess LT/BG should be grateful in that sense for having the Friday 1pm game this week.

    In that same vein, I’d be OK giving the 6A semis Sat afternoon (or even Sat night) slots this week, since they’ll be off until Sat 12/7.

  566. New2PA says:

    Foreman – P-R has been able to go toe to toe with SJP (‘14 and ‘17). I think a lot has to do with getting good coaches and schemes and competing. For them, it started with one class of kids in 2014 that got over the PCC hump. Since then, when talent has been close, they have done well against all comers.

    I expect that they will go toe to toe with Archbishop Wood next year in 5A too.

  567. Kevin X says:

    @ Craig A. James

    “PIAA should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen”

    What exactly to happen that the PIAA is responsible for?? I know you explained, but still??

    @ Buddy

    Gonna step in it again…..but if SC was playing up in 5A this year, they would have most likely played Wood this past weekend. Yes, that would have worked very well.

    As far as beating Wood, sure. I did see them Friday night up in Perk, and wasn’t overly impressed, at least compare to the Wood teams from the past few years other than last year. That tho may be an unfair comparison. Saw them earlier in the year against a really good Peddie School, and will say they have improved quite a bit from September. Thinking 5A is tighter than it was earlier in the season. But like Imhotep, this may be the year to pick them (Wood) off again (like last year), next year, watch out, back to the future.

  568. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…I wish we had more Saturday games…Can’t be in two places at once…:)

  569. Kevin X says:

    @ NO

    Also curious what others think of next weekends schedule:

    3 Friday 1p games
    8 Friday night games
    1 Saturday afternoon game

    Love to know others thoughts specifically on the 3 Friday afternoon games and only one Saturday game. Personally, I do not like the Friday afternoon games at all, would have liked to see more Saturday games, specifically with 3A and 5A.

  570. David Mika says:

    At Neutral Observer…Correct…I have all the brackets updated

  571. Neutral Observer says:

    I saw that D2 teams have a Danville doubleheader on Friday:

    Lackawanna Trail v. Bishop Guilfoyle @1pm

    Dallas v. Jersey Shore @ 6pm

    As a D2 fan who also happens to have Black Friday off, I’m personally thrilled.

    But there are probably going to be a lot of LT and BG fans who cannot make a 1pm game on a week day. I don’t know who is responsible for this decision (PIAA, Districts 2 and 6, or the school’s themselves), but it’s not a smart move.

  572. Mark T says:

    Craig Jones a meaningless state title because Craig Jones says so! The teenage kids you’re disparaging surely care about their hard work paying off and being crowned the best in the state. This forum treats these kids like grown men, personally attacked because their areas football teams are unfairly positioned to succeed. It shows an astounding lack of immaturity. How dare any eighth grade kid want to play for a great program and attend a great school that also challenges them academically. I’m sure they’re just heart broken not being able to roll out a primo band at halftime too. Oh the humanity!

  573. Kmac says:


    Sadly, I think you nailed it in a nutshell. While I cannot contribute much anymore, I still love the sport and have seen or heard or attended 76 games around the state this year. Two things stand out, lack of discipline and poor tackling across many of the games I have seen. The scoring is exciting, but also a bit much. Wide open offenses coupled with talent and weakened defenses seem to be the order of the day. I have written many articles on this site over the years and followed local ball closely as well. My Suburban One great league of the 1990s and 2000s is a shadow of itself. While many things in high school football are cyclical to a degree, I do not see the league rebounding; but hope I am wrong about it. I read comments on here and other high school football websites daily and it seems to be a common problem with our favorite sport and home state.

  574. Foleman says:

    Craig A Jones, part of the problem is Lehigh Valley football, and 6A football on the whole across the State, is on the downturn, a shadow of what it used to be. Maxpreps has Nazareth-A 6A school with 32 players on the team, 32! I saw another roster with 52 with a few freshman. A school with 500-600 boys in the school can’t get more than 30-50 kids out for the team? The N. Penns and some of the other mega Pubs should be able to go toe to toe with Prep just based on school size. Neshaminy-Pennsbury-N.Penn-Parkland-Northeast-(Just lost to prep, hung in there for a while)-Emmaus-Easton-Cumberland Valley-(just fired their coach)-Spring Ford-( had to go into the 4th quarter to beat 3A Pope john Paul). There is no reason that these schools should not be 6A Juggernauts. Central Bucks West took on all comers back in the day and beat them all. Lets face it, 6A Public School football in PA stinks! I don’t know what the answer is but it looks like its getting worse. The Cumberland Valley fan base was saying there team is a shadow of itself due to kids concentrating on Soccer and Lacrosse.

  575. CYOBall1 says:

    Craig Jones, clearly you care as well..

  576. Jeff H says:

    Gateway held on to beat Peters Township 21-20 in an exciting, hard fought game played in a driving rain and 40 degree temperatures, very well played game given the miserable conditions. However, Gateway star Derrick Davis sprained his left ankle after being tackled from behind at the 3 yard line at the end of a 70 yard run early in the third quarter. Gateway subsequently scored to take a 21-10 lead and then held on for the win. Davis came back later in the third but was clearly bothered by the ankle and went down again a few plays later and did not return the rest of the game. Gateway has several other play-makers on both offense and defense and a few D1 players, but if Davis can’t play or is not close to 100% I don’t like their chances next week against Wood, will definitely be something to follow during the week.

  577. Craig A Jones says:

    Went to the SJPrep-Nazareth game last night. Of course SJPrep is an excellent team. But, having said that the PIAA should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen. Let me explain, Nazareth’s best lineman Wilson is his last name is going to I believe to an Ivy league team. their best player Nathan Stefanik is going to be a D1 wrestler next yr. Did I mention Stefanik plays 3 way. That’s right, on offense flanker, on defense I believe corner back, and returns kicks on special teams. You think SJPrep has any kids on their team who does that. Do they have any that even play 2 way? I got into it with some of their people in the press box. They said ” Don’t you want your teams to compete?” And let me tell you something else, I was not impressed with SJPrep’s sportsmanship either. Late hits that should have gotten more personal foul penalty’s than they got and an appalling blind side hit on Stefanik after they were way ahead. I’m not even a Nazareth fan, I’m from Easton. I told those guys in the press box who were hamming it up to come to Fisher field at Lafayette College on Thanksgiving morning when Easton plays Phillipsburg and see what high school football is really about. 12-14000 fans, 2 fantastic bands between 2 teams who combined would get hammered by SJPrep. So go ahead and win your meaningless State Championship, nobody cares except your few hundred fans.

  578. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – I don’t think Bishop G. is going to win 1A, the Clariton/Farrell winner next week will be definitely be the favorite in Hershey, we’ll see about Wood, obviously SJP is a big favorite, but I think there’s a distinct possibility the privates only win 1, after only winning 2 last year. IMO going to separate playoffs for private and public in football would be a disaster and add to the problems the sport is facing and not help.

    Regarding the WPIAL 5A championship tonight at 6pm, before the playoffs started I picked Gateway, however, I think Peters Twp is going to win this game, as they’ve been playing much better than Gateway the last several weeks. Not sure what’s up with Gateway’s offense, after only scoring 17 against Bethel Park 2 weeks ago, and 14 last week against McKeesport, but Peters defense is better than either of those teams. Gateway will have the best player on the field in Derrick Davis, he’s being recruited by everyone and reminds me a lot of Jerome Whitehead from Central Valley from 5yrs ago, but Peters has the more complete team, I think they win by a TD. On a side note I also think Peters has a better chance of beating Wood next week because their defense and line play is better than Gateway, so for that reason alone here’s hoping Peters wins their first ever WPIAL football championship.

    @Pittboy – notice Cherpak did not say a negative word in the press this week about ECP, because he knew they had a good chance to win, while in years past (2015-17) they were a big underdog. I just thought he was sending the wrong message to his kids by whining about all the advantages ECP had prior to those other games, and his teams went into those games thinking they had to play a perfect game to win, and even then that might not be enough. I do agree Cherpak is a tremendous coach and runs a great program and was really nice to watch them finally beat Erie Prep last night.

    @Neutral Observer – Really enjoyed watching TJ get past Erie Prep, then when I got home and checked the scores and saw that Dallas beat Imhotep that really made my night!! Looks like those 2 are headed for a showdown in 2 weeks.

  579. Buddy says:

    I know no one will beat SJP, can anybody beat Wood?

    Too bad SC can’t play Wood. That would work.

  580. Tom Silva says:

    Was at the BC vs LS game. Berks Catholic did everything in their power to hand the game to LS. I’m certainly not taking away from the intensity that LS played with (they were definitely more fired up to play this game than BC was), but fumbling the opening kickoff, then an int the next possession in their own territory is recipe for disaster, no matter who you play. I believe BC ended with 5 turnovers. LS with 2. Add in some very questionable penalties, they just didn’t have enough to come out with a victory. BC should have won that game, but didn’t Deserve it. From the game I’ve seen online of TJ this year, they should handle LS soundly (possibly mercy rule).

  581. D3 Mike says:

    Yes, our 3-9, 1A “champ” lost and our 2A champ got smoked by a bunch of bums from Catawissa. Sick burn.

    Wyomissing will be OK. They’ll return 16 underclassmen starters next year and even with the loss, still have more state titles in the past 10 years than almost half of the districts in PA.

    Which reminds me, here’s a list of state titles since D12 joined, by district:

    District 12 – 12
    District 3 – 5
    District 4 – 4
    District 11 – 2
    District 1 – 0
    District 2 – 0

    Trips to Hershey, by district:

    District 12 – 20
    District 3 – 15
    District 4 – 6
    District 2 – 5
    District 11 – 3
    District 1 – 2

    In sum, I find your juvenile chirping about district 3 more pathetic and uninformed than particularly biting.

  582. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H: I agree with your assessment. TJ size and physicality won them the game. Prep hurt themselves with stupid penalties and the inability to convert for TD’s in the red zone. Five times in the red zone and only 13 points to show. Kudos to TJ on getting the job done against a talented Prep team. I say with confidence (Any anyone in attendance for the game last night would agree) that those were the top 4A teams in the state. I don’t see anyone beating them.

  583. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay, et al….

    Per Pete DiGiovanni (via Twitter) of the DLN……..”DWest vs. Central Dauphin unofficially heard will be at CVille. Nothing official till Sunday”

    Jeez, I was hoping for Pennridge!!! Wrong time for me that the PIAA actually got one right (or so it seems)!!!

  584. Neutral Observer says:

    I’m thrilled to have been wrong about Dallas v. Imhotep! I was at the game last night and it was phenomenal! Back and forth all night, with Dallas stopping IC just about 7 yds from scoring the tying TD as time expired.

    Both teams absolutely played their hearts out, but as the Dallas coach said afterwards, “A football team beat a roster.”

  585. pittboy says:

    Nice to see TJ get off the schneid, ending the insanity, the ridiculousness, that is, Erie Prep’s annual saunter to state gold. Well done, baby. You get the sense Thomas Jefferson is a true team, not merely an assemblage of talent. The long, clock eating drives are indicative of this. It’s an old school power team accented with enough talent to take care of business. Personally I don’t have a problem with Coach Cherpak having pointed out the injustices of facing all-star type teams. Within reason, sometimes things need to be pointed out as opposed to acting like the emperor has clothes on. Ostensibly for years Cherp has been doing things the right way, endeavoring to build teams organically. And then to be derailed at a certain point due to aforementioned reason, some visceral frustration is understandable. If things hold form, a battle of undefeateds against Dallas could be in the offing in a couple weeks. Go Jaguars.

    Also, shout out to the Mentor Cardinals for taking out St. Edward in the Ohio Division 1, Region 1 final (state quarterfinal). I followed the end of that game on Maxpreps with live texting. Quite dramatic, trailing 28-21 late in the 4th quarter, Mentor manufactured a gutsy touch down tying drive to send it into OT. Eds got the ball first, scored a TD relatively easily, up 35-28. Mentor required several downs (apparently they start at the 20 yard line for OT in Ohio, not the 10), not hitting pay dirt until 4th and goal from the 2. Are you kidding me?! They then opted for the 2 point conversion, and got it. Goodness, the suspense of following this with live texts was pretty intense.

  586. Jay says:

    Fun game to be at last night. I was rooting for Coatesville but I’m very happy for DTW and look forward to supporting them next week in the East Final. I’m assuming that it will be played at Coatesville?

    Obviously the turnovers played an enormous role in the result but the bottom line is that DTW just had more weapons and executed better on offense. Notwithstanding Coatesville’s long explosive plays, there was a large gap in level of offensive execution. Too many poorly thrown balls (and again, the turnovers) set the tone in the first half and frankly it just felt unfamiliar with this team.

    I feel great for Coach Milano and the Whippets. I’m especially happy for #22 Sean Pelkisson, who tragically lost his younger sister to leukemia three weeks ago (which is why the DTW student section was wearing orange tonight, as a tribute). My heart goes out to his family.

    I like DTW vs SJP in the 6A final, after another high scoring affair next week against CD.

  587. Foleman says:

    Eric, I watched Tamaqua play Pope John Paul and was really impressed, I thought they would give Wyo all they could handle and then some. Defense is fast and they really hit you. Their offensive line wears you down and by the 4th quarter Boyle just dominates you and that’s what happened to Wyo. Wolfum said the game wasn’t even that close. BC coaches lost that game during the week, they simply came out flatter than a pancake, down 14-0 in the 1st couple of minutes, 4 turnovers that led to 28 LS points, 12 penalties, that was the sloppiest and most unmotivated BC team I have ever seen. Give LS credit, they came out super intense and played every down like it was their last.

  588. Kevin X says:

    A footnote to my just posted post……….”This can’t help the cause of those who are championing separate playoffs for publics and privates”……..unless they win “A” “5A” and “6A”, which is a realistic possibility. Stay tuned…….

  589. Kevin X says:

    Ding Dong the wicked witches of the East and West are dead!!! Boy was I wrong (another ECP/’Tep 4A final), and must say, never so happy to be!!! 4A goes from the ho hum same old same old private’s party to the most interesting bracket. Four new fresh faces (Lampeter/Strasburg??, help me D3 guys), all traditional publics. If I’m counting correctly, by the end of the day today, there will only be 4 private/charter/catholics (all usual suspects) still standing out of 24 teams. This can’t help the cause of those who are championing separate playoffs for publics and privates (PA HB 1600). I was never an advocate for this (unless someone presented a really workable system, which I have not seen), other than in basketball (boys and girls), which I think the PIAA is missing a real golden opportunity.

  590. Eric W/D3 says:

    Just for the record, D3 teams that have state championships in football:

    Camp Hill.
    Manheim Central
    Cumberland Valley
    Central Dauphin
    Lancaster Catholic
    Steel High
    Bishop McD

    Plus runner-up (Wilson, Harrisburg,Cedar Cliff, Middletown. Conestoga Valley, Lower Dauphin,MC, McD)

    Overall, pretty strong football in D3

  591. Jut says:

    I understand why District 3 gets byes in states. Cause they don’t win. So far A,AA,AAA all 3 have lost in states and no wins, AAAA,AAAAA,AAAAAA haven’t had a state game yet. But I’m sure when they do they will all lose too lol. What a joke

  592. Eric W/D3 says:

    BC loses to LS, 35-21, LS 21 pts off to’s Very sloppy game for Berks Catholic. BC down 14-0, 5 min. into the game.

    But the big shocker, Wyo loses to Tamagua, 20-10. 3 to’s, Ave. 41 pts a game and holding their opponents to 95 yes rushing/game. Wyo held to no touchdowns for first time this year. And rb from Tamaqua had 176 yds rushing in 2nd half after being held to 19 in first half!!!

  593. Jeff H says:

    The king of 4A has been dethroned, TJ with a very impressive 28-13 win over 3 time defending champ Erie Prep. TJ’s offensive line was the difference in the game, they dominated the smaller Erie Prep defensive line and ran the ball very effectively all game, wearing them down in the 2nd half. ECP coach Mike Mischler said in the press he was concerned about TJ’s line and his fears turned out to be well founded. Also saw Imhotep got beat by Dallas so will be nice for a change to have 2 different teams in the 4A final in 2 weeks, the way TJ looked tonight I don’t think there’s a 4A team in the state that will beat them, and frankly I think they could win 5A, I have seen every 5A team in the WPIAL this year and TJ is better than any of them.

  594. Chief Red Raider says:

    Congrats to DTW. Too many turnovers and not enough getting the ball to Bryant for CV. A few dumb penalties, but DTW did what they needed to do. Plus DTW executed very well on offense and played enough D. I’m pretty confident DTW will face SJP in the final, and if their offense can click they will have a chance. Go D1. Signing off until next season (unless DTW keeps winning 🙂 ).

  595. JC says:

    Revenge of the conventional boundary schools in 4A!!!

  596. ScottyB says:

    Looks like the Coatesville/DTW game will now be streamed live on Chesmontfootball,com

  597. D3 Mike says:

    Red Raider, I accidentally clicked “refresh” which submitted a half-finished post. I realized I sounded a little angry as I re-read it but didn’t have a chance to revise it lol. I was more frustrated than angry, actually. I’m only using the rankings to inform quality-of-schedule, so as to present a counterpoint to this notion that District 3 has a huge advantage in the current system. Yes, it shouldn’t have a bye in week 14, and yes, having a bye in week 14 is an advantage (and no one has mentioned that Upper Dauphin also had a bye last week – which is FAR more egregious considering the district only has 6 teams in 2A and doesn’t need 3 weeks to produce a winner). But back to 6A, the winner in District 3 also has to play a more difficult schedule to get to the quarterfinals (at least this cycle) than many district winners – which is a disadvantage. People are making the same complaint about Central Valley having a bye this week. Central Valley probably beat the 2nd best team in the state in 3A last week, so if anything the current system puts THEM at a disadvantage, not everyone else.

    There are lots of advantages and disadvantages in the current system and a bye is just one of them. That’s the point I’m making. Central Dauphin can’t control its week 14 just like Central Dauphin can’t control that it has to earn it’s way into the state quarterfinals every year in a way that it’s conference-mate, State College, frankly, doesn’t. There are lots of unfair things about this system and I’m trying to move the focus away from the bye because it’s just one of many issues. And as I said, the “rankings” are only meant to inform that discussion. They’re fairly subjective since few teams play cross-district. That said, do you have some reason besides your gut that you think Central Dauphin isn’t right around #3 in PA?

    Week 14 picks: Central Dauphin (ha), Cocalico, Berks Catholic, Wyomissing, SCA (over Upper Dauphin).

    Foleman, I might be missing something but what is the point of assigning 1 point for participation in a district final? Like if a team makes the state final (4 points) then the district quarterfinal the next year (1 point) they are short of the 6 point threshold. So why even assign 1 point?

  598. Jeff H says:

    Only 2 WPIAL teams are in action tonight, so I’ll focus on those 2 games for now, and do another write-up tonight or tomorrow morning previewing the 2A and 5A championship games.

    6A PCC vs. State College (at North Allegheny) – this will be the 7th time since 2010 that State College has played the WPIAL champ in the quarterfinals, and they are 0-6 in those games, getting blown out by Pine Richland the last 2 yrs. The last time SC beat a WPIAL team in the playoffs was in 2009 against Woodland Hills, who was really banged up and missing several key players after their bruising game with Gateway the week before in the WPIAL championship game. SC has definitely played a tougher schedule than PCC, so they have that in their favor, they also have a more balanced offense than PR which was very pass heavy this year. Key to the game will be how well SC’s offensive line matches up with PCC’s dominating D-Line that starts 4 DI players, if they can run the ball a bit and set up the pass they have a chance to make this very interesting. On defense SC needs to slow PCC’s running game like PR did last week, PCC has a very mediocre passing game (and that may be generous), if you can limit their rushing attack their offense is going to struggle. I think this game will be very competitive and would not be surprised if SC pulls the upset, but given their recent track record against the WPIAL the last decade I’ll take PCC by a TD. Winner moves on to get beat up by SJP next week, regardless of whether their starting QB plays or not.

    4A TJ vs. ECP (at North Hills) – finally the match-up that all of us on the western side of the state have been anticipating since August. Think everyone knows TJ lost to ECP in 2015-2017, so this will be the fourth meeting between them in the last 5 years. TJ may be the only team standing between ECP and their fourth straight 4A state championship, as most people agree these are the 2 best teams in the state this year in 4A. Key is how well TJ handles the huge step up in competition, they haven’t played a team remotely close to the talent ECP has. I was at the game 3 years ago at Baldwin, won by ECP 30-13, TJ had a lot of dropped passes when receivers were wide open, I remember at least 5 such drops and maybe more, passes they would have likely caught against a lesser opponent, I don’t know if it was nerves, or the speed of the ECP defense or both, receivers were looking to run and make a play before they caught the ball. If TJ can hang in there and be either tied or at most down 1 score at half they have a chance to dethrone the 3 time defending champ, but I’ll believe it when I see it, I’m picking ECP by a TD, I’ll be there and post a report after the game.

  599. Mike says:

    What is the minimum amount of males to be at 6A, 5A? What’s the cut off number?

  600. Kevin X says:

    Any of you Chesmont guys have an update on ticket availability for tonight’s game??

  601. Kevin X says:

    @ SCA2566

    I have. Extensively. I’m not rehashing. Feel free to drill down and read my prior posts.

  602. Jeff H says:

    @ Foleman – I agree with you, would have liked to have seen the success factor stand on it’s own and not be tied to transfers, if a school continues to dominate in a certain class like ECP in 4A and Southern Columbia in 2A they should be forced to move up a class for the next 2 yr cycle.

    @SCA2566 – we’re not talking about who SC plays in the regular season, it’s all about the playoffs, they can play whoever they want in the regular season, I’m sure Kevin X and the rest of us that follow football statewide know who they played this year, I certainly did, but in the playoffs they should be playing at a higher classification than 2A, period, end of story.

  603. mark d says:

    @neutral i think Dallas can do it the old fashion way defense and ball control

  604. Foleman says:

    Jeff H, thanks for the clarification, according to the Info below, you are correct, transfers + points do factor in. So S. Columbia can stay at 2A and Tep at 4A if they don’t have 3 transfers. Looks like the PIAA dropped the ball again on this one.

    Success Factor scale
    * Participation in a district final = 1 point
    * Participation in a PIAA quarterfinal = 2 points
    * Participation in a PIAA semifinal = 3 points
    * Participation in a PIAA final = 4 points

    Schools would receive the points based on their highest finish in the previous two-year cycle. Should a school accumulate 6 points or greater and accept athletic transfers, according to a fixed ratio (below), the school would move up 1 class in that sport for the following cycle.

    Athletic Transfers

    In addition, if a school receives 6 points or greater in the previous two-year cycle, and accepts transfer students by sport and gender that are equal to or exceeds one less than half of the starting line-up, the school will be required to move up 1 classification.

    That would equal two transfers in basketball (5 starters) or five transfers in football (11 starters).

    Schools that receive points, but not transfers, would remain in its same enrollment classification.

    The option to “play up” in classification remains in place, and Lombardi also said a waiver provision would be in place to address transfer students with “exceptional and unusual” circumstances.”

  605. JC says:

    Picks for the winners of games involving D11:

    6A: Nazareth has had a nice season, but the SJP juggernaut is a force to be reckoned with. No experience outside of the EPC gives them even less of a shot. SJP 49-14.

    5A: This Wood team is not as strong as in years past, so Solehi might stay with them, but Wood has a big experience advantage, and the Spartans are a bit one-dimensional. This game’s winner will be a definite underdog against the D7 champ. Wood 48-35.

    4A: Pottsville looked great against Central Catholic. They are battle tested and will be able to grind down JS. The Schuylkill League Division 1 was a doozy this year. Pottsville 28-14.

    3A: This is an interesting matchup because both teams have played Pottsville and North Schuylkill (Tamaqua in-conference, Wyomissing OOC). Tamaqua is on a roll now, but Wyomissing won both of those matchups and Tamaqua lost them. Hoping for a great battle. Wyomissing 28-24.

    For the other matchups (except games 3A and lower without eastern teams since I just have no idea, except Farrell will win)

    6A: Dtown West, State College
    5A: Cheltenham, Cocalico, Peters Township
    4A: Imhotep, Berks, Cathedral Prep (rooting for Dallas and L-S but have to pick with history)
    3A: Wyoming Area
    2A: Richland Twp, Southern Columbia
    1A: Lackawanna Trail

  606. SCA2566 says:

    @Kevin X can you explain to me how Southern doesn’t play up? If you look at Southerns schedule (which you haven’t) you will find they play mostly all 3A and 4A schools. They put their undefeated regular season win streak on the line to go play a nationally televised game on ESPN against a premier 3A private school in SC, they changed 2 regular season games to play Wyoming area and Montoursville both of whom play each other in the Eastern quarters in 3A, and we can throw Jersey Shore in as well who is playing in the 4A quarters. Do some research before you jump on the “Southern doesn’t play anyone” or “they need to play up” bandwagon.

  607. Jeff H says:

    @ Jur – the PIAA did that a little bit with this 2 yr cycle, flipping D12 and D3 in both 5A and 6A, that’s why most people on this board are complaining about CD’s bye this week, there would be a lot less whining if D3 was still in the western bracket and had a bye then got to face the winner of PCC vs. State College. There is already a lot more travel with flipping D3 and D12, do you really want more teams travelling 3-4 hours or more each way to play early round games? And how well would those games be attended, when attendance is already down quite a bit. It’s easy to get on a board and say the PIAA should rotate and move districts around each year, but try putting that together logistically and it becomes a lot more difficult, especially when some of the bigger districts have such a large concentration in certain classes…look at 5A, 3 districts (D1/D3/D7) have 77 out of 102 teams, add in D12 with 10 and that’s 87, 3 districts have none, 1 has 1, 2 have 2, and 2 have 5, so good luck moving districts around with that disparity.

    I don’t think D3 Mike or anyone else has said CD deserves a bye, it’s not their fault this is how the system is set up, virtually everyone is in agreement there should not be a bye for any team in the quarterfinals from any district, period.

  608. Mcd65 says:

    M cDevitt AA plays Max Preps #25 team small school ranked Richland Friday. So Columbia is #2 small school in the rankings. These of course are National rankings . If Lonnie Rice plays as he did against Dunmore McD has a chance for the upset. Frank G, Egan was a machine in the mid 60s. Bedesem was a superior coach . A real classic was a thanksgiving day game at Brick Twp. NJ which Brick won 7-0. Itravelled from Temple stadium that morning North/ Frankford up to Brick for the game. Egan was undefeated prior to that game. They were so talented back then. I believe every school in the league with the exception of Tommy More had at least 1000 boys and thus most fielded solid teams . Judge,Dougherty,Bonner with over 3000 boys didn’t dominate . I sure miss those games as Im sure you do.

  609. Kevin X says:

    @ Dennis

    Thnx man, appreciated

    Jeff H and NW PA I think do a really nice job I on covering the Evil Empire, umm, the western part of the state 🙂

  610. SCA Alum says:

    I was in the Upper Dauphin Area today for work. I had a discussion with some local guys, and they really think UD has a fighting chance against SCA. I just kinda chuckled, they didn’t know that I follow and am an alumni of SCA. I believe that this game is going to be a another mercy rule by half. That team is a machine, and it will take an extreme team to even get close to them!

  611. Brian says:

    James clews. Please tell me how Roth thinks he’s bigger than the league or area? This should be good.

  612. Chief Red Raider says:

    D3 Mike: I’m glad you read my post, but relax a little. I wasn’t knocking CD (they might be the #3 team in the state — I don’t think they are, but that’s my opinion and it could be wrong). My comments were about how the rankings have been all year long — week after week they’ve had to adjust because of wins/losses — not something I would hang my hat on — and it’s still just opinion. As far as saying that a team that is already out of the playoffs should be ranked higher than one still playing at this point– that sounds even crazier to me. Okay, for fun, let’s put MT at #2 again ( Pennlive had them there just 2 weeks ago). For some reason, I don’t think they would take any solace in knowing that while watching other teams still playing and moving on in the playoffs. “Hey guys, Pennlive just moved us from #10 to #2 again, so who’s bringing the popcorn when we watch CD play D1”. (My apologies to MT, they had a great year, but c’mon Mike 🙂 ). Even better, suppose DTW wins it all (long shot I know), should they not be ranked #1, even though they have not been ranked that high the entire year? Doesn’t the BCS champ automatically become #1?

  613. Frank G says:

    @Mcd65 You and I may be the only really long-time PCL guys who ever post here. Huck knows a lot about the PCL, but he’s relatively young (e.g He would know Tommy DeFelice only as a coach whereas we both appear to have seen him play at WC–a little guy who was a very clever QB.) Those Egan teams in the mid-60s were so well-coached, I remember Billy Creedon as a great high-school QB. Did a lot of their guys get their start with the Little Quakers?

    There are rivalries within the league now but less of a league identity–maybe inevitable given the open boundaries and the fact that more and more of the students, especially the students who play football or basketball, are not coming from Catholic elementary schools. Probably more of a “league identity” in basketball than in football.

  614. Jeff H says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe – I try and provide insight on the WPIAL every week, I live in the Pittsburgh suburbs and have followed the WPIAL closely since the 1970’s, and NW PA does a great job of reporting on D10.

    @NW PA – really looking forward to the game tomorrow night, I could go to PCC vs. State College at NA but I think the ECP/TJ game is a lot more intriguing, maybe one of these years we can get together at a WPIAL vs. D10 game! Being a WPIAL guy would love to see TJ win, but I have a hunch ECP wins by a TD, something like 28-21. There was an excellent article in the TribLive online today about the game, both coaches had nothing but great things to say about their opponent, I get the impression Cherpak thinks this is his best shot to beat Prep and he hasn’t made any derogatory comments about Prep in the media like he has in the past, all the focus has been on dethroning the 3 time champ!

  615. Jeff H says:

    @ Foleman – the success factor rule is tied to transfers, if a school doesn’t have 3 transfers they are not forced to move up regardless of how much success they have in the playoffs. ECP will definitely be moving up, but that may be it, depends on whether the other schools mentioned have had 3 transfers. NW PA could offer more insight on the D10 teams, but I doubt Sharon and Wilmington have had 3 transfers, and the D3 guys can chime in on whether Cocalico has had any transfers, since Berks Catholic is 3A by enrollment they will not be forced to move to 5A even if they upset the ECP/TJ winner and make the state final, same goes for Imhotep if they are still 3A by enrollment.

  616. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H- yes I will be at the game tomorrow. I’d love to sit down and watch it with you but let’s just say I’ll be in my official capacity there and won’t be able to. This is probably lay my last year in this capacity so in future seasons we will meet up. It’s gonna be one heck of a game.

  617. JFF says:

    @D3 Mike
    By discrict by class for enrollment numbers in current cycle. Imhotep at 231 so they’re already playing up


  618. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Little confused with this success factor stuff. My understanding you only move up with 6 (or more) points AND 3 or more transfers. If 6 or more points, and no transfers, no moving up. So if win back to back state championships and no transfers = no moving up.

    And shouldn’t all of this wait until the next cycle of official enrollment figures come out??? Also, I don’t think a team like Wood or Imhotep who are already voluntarily playing, would be affected by their current status, but from their new specific enrollment figs. Basically staying where they are at when all is said and done.

    From the PIAA website….

    A. In the previous two year classification cycle, if a school receives 6 points in the previous classification cycle and accepts transfer students by sport and gender the school and equals or exceeds the stated number, they will move up 1 classification.
    Example: (1) transfers in basketball= up 1 classification.
    (3) transfers in football = up 1 classification.
    B. If a school accumulates 6 points or greater in the previous cycle and does not receive
    transfer students, it will remain in their same enrollment classification for the next two year cycle.
    C. A school that has moved up in class does not obtain 3, 4, or 5 success points in a cycle, but has transfer students equal to or exceeds the number by sport will remain up in that classification cycle for the next two year cycle.

  619. phillyboy says:

    I echo the sentiments of Kevin X, phillyboy hereby grants the Downingtown/Coatesville community some props for broadcasting this game. They can plaster it with all the ads they want, no problem. I’ll have my popcorn ready, okay Mikey? — looking forward to a great game Mikey.

  620. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Kevin X I like your knowledge of Eastern PA high school football I have learned alot you are well opinionated also. It would be nice if a fan from the western part of the state with their knowledge of high school football be a contributor on this forum especially this time of year. That would be great to compare programs.

  621. Jur says:

    @D3 Mike
    Well it looks like you have a dog in the fight in District 3 6a lol. You take the ranking way to literal, just because your team played 2 top 10 ranked teams in the state back to back weeks they should get a bye? lol that’s like saying Ohio st. Should get a bye if they beat PSU and Michigan to the national championship? That’s not how it goes, Clemson will get there without playing a ranked team. It’s not fair but that’s how it goes. None of them will get a bye in the playoffs thou right. Yes district 7 got some byes in states too which I missed. Back when they had 4 classes district 12 would get some byes too. Look it up they did. So this whole changing to 6 classes didn’t change that. Mostly in smaller classes I believe. Only fair way is to get rid of the byes in states. Have them only in district play

    I agree with you with the whole point system. But I take it much further. Do it for all sports. Other states do this. If you win back to back AAA state titles you move up to AAAA the next 2 year cycle.

    With state playoffs I think they should switch all the brackets around every year. Not have same first round of state matchups every year. Send other districts out west or send some of their districts to the East, make it state championship not East vs west

  622. New2PA says:

    Foleman: Archbishop Wood is a 4A school by enrollment and would move to (stay) 5A. Same with Imhotep and Berks Catholic – both 3A school and would move to 4A.

    I always wonder about that transfer thing. I’m not so sure there are so many transfer out west, as kids that just start going to school at private schools as freshman.

  623. Neutral Observer says:

    Some D2 predictions:

    1A: Lackawanna Trail over Muncy
    I think it will be a shoot out, but LT comes out on top.

    3A: Wyoming Area over Montoursville
    I think WA is the superior team based purely on talent, but this will be a closer game than it should be. WA tends to hurts themselves with dumb penalties; I think they had 5 or 6 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties against Scranton Prep last week (late hits, helmet to helmet, etc.).

    4A: Imhotep Charter over Dallas
    I’d like to see Dallas pull it out, but I think IC’s speed will be too much. I do think it will be closer than previous IC v. D2 matchups. 2019 Dallas is much better than 2018/2017 Valley View and 2016 North Pocono.

  624. Philly333 says:

    Imhotep is a 3A school but I think they might stay @ 4a

  625. Bleed Red & Black says:

    It’s a crime that the PIAA charges $4,000-$5,000 for these small community based production companies to broadcast a game for those that aren’t able to make the game. Thankfully the Downingtown and yes even Coatesville area has a good bit of wealth from it’s residents and enough local business support to offset the cost.

    Hell even if a school like North Penn had made it this far, their school broadcast channel would be subject to the same fees with a 50% discount. For much of District 1 and other Districts that isn’t an issue.

    The real issue is when residents of a small school, poverty stricken district or a game hours away from an areas doesn’t have an opportunity to view games because of the outlandish price the PIAA places of real-time broadcasting. For some towns/schools it’s a once in a generation achievement and they should all be able to enjoy it just as much as the fans that are able to make the trek to the games.

  626. Jeff H says:

    @ Bleed Red & Black – I don’t have a problem with D1 taking 16 teams in 6A playoffs, my point was in order for the district to have a bye this week they would have to take far fewer teams, and that’s not fair to the lower seeded teams that have made a playoff run over the years, like Haverford this year and NP and others in previous years like you pointed out. With 6 classes there are many districts that only have a few teams in a given classification, in D6 for example in 6A there is State College and Altoona, and in D10 there’s Erie High and McDowell, and that’s it. As long as this state has district playoffs, and I don’t see that ever changing, nor should it, there are going to be some issues with fitting the larger districts into the state playoff brackets. What the PIAA needs to do is not allow the districts so much leeway that they can manipulate the system so some of their teams have byes in the state quarterfinals this week, but that’s easier said than done with 6 classes.

  627. D3 Mike says:

    @Philly333 do you know where Imhotep came in on enrollment? I know they were right near the 3A/4A cut and chose to play 4A. I assume they’ll be classed up due to the success factor and am curious if they’ll be in 4A or 5A next cycle.

  628. D3 Mike says:

    @Red Raider, I was just using PennLive so we have a common frame of reference for the quality of the district. You’re welcome to use Max Preps, BPI, or anything else besides subjective opinion and I’d make the same points (btw, MaxPreps lists 4 D3 teams in the top 11, BPI lists 4 in the top 9). They’ll all say the same thing about the quality of the schedules.

    But PennLive is biased. It currently lists Central Dauphin #3. Where do you think they should be ranked? They beat last year’s finalist (Harrisburg), another team still playing (State College), and the only undefeated team in 6A (Manheim). Considering that and the fact that the program has the pedigree of a state title, #3 sounds right to me. And then PennLive has no one else from the district is in the Top 10 until Manheim Township at #10. MT is still the only team in 6A to have not lost in regulation, and the team that beat them (in double overtime) is 50/50 to play in the final – and is someone they beat earlier in the season. It’s a joke that they are #10 in the state and your notion that teams that are still playing should be ranked higher simply because they play through easier brackets is inane. Finally, Harrisburg played in Hershey last year, beat Coatesville in week 1, lost by a TD to a team still playing and isn’t even in the top 10? If anything, the current rankings are biased against D3 teams.

  629. mark d says:

    @Kevin x one more factor in Dallas favor they have a much better coaching staff

  630. JC says:

    @Kevin X: All good, sometimes with so many conversations happening at once it gets tough to follow!

    I have to say that while I like the idea of forcing districts to have their byes in week 11, I fear it would just make districts currently using byes more likely to let more teams into the playoffs. What I would like to see is re-seeding when it gets down to the quarterfinals, but districts want to have their district finals. Could do it like other sports where both finalists make the playoffs in the biggest districts, but it would add another week to the season, or districts would have to shorten their district playoffs by a round. Don’t see either of those happening.

  631. Kevin X says:

    That whole MCA/SCA mess could have been mitigated, IMO, with some sensible competitive balance with SCA playing up in 3A or 4A, or even 5A (if they had some real gonads), where they belonged this past two year cycle.

  632. Foleman says:

    Mike Drago of the Reading Eagle had an interesting article on the new success factor and who is going to me moving up for the next 2 years. The success factor is based on a points system over a 2 year period-4 points for reaching the State Final, 3 for reaching the Semi’s, 2 for a District Final and 1 for the 1st round of the playoffs. If you hit 6 points over a 2 year period, you move up the next classification. If your team has 3 transfers and reaches 6 points in a 2 year period after previously moving up in class, you will move up another level. The way it looks right now, these are the teams that will be moving up a classification in 2020-2021

    5A to 6A Possibly Wood and Cocalico depending on the next few playoff games

    4A to 5A-Erie Cathedral Prep and Imhotep. Berks Catholic would move up to 5A if it makes the State Final but will be a big underdog VS ECP or Thomas Jefferson

    3A to 4A-Sharon if it wins this week, Montoursville if it wins 2 more games

    2A to 3A-Southern Columbia, Wilmington

  633. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    My bad. My apologize. Kind of had a weird feeling right after I hit submit if I was reading your post correctly. Obviously I didn’t. I am automatically triggered if I see anything that refers to “more teams” in the playoffs 🙂

  634. James Clews says:

    Enough already about mca and southern. They both acted like idiots. Coaches r to blame for not having Any control on either team. Roth is turning into a real jack ass though he thinks southern is bigger than the league and area. His fall is coming. We only leave people get so high before there torn down

  635. Philly333 says:

    Imhotep is loaded, Very young and big
    4* DE Class of 2022 Enai White 6’5 could be 5 by SR yr
    3* SS/LB Class of 2021 Saint McLeod 6’0 190
    3* SS/LB Class of 2021 Javon Mcintyre 6’2 190
    #8 Freshman Rahmir Sweat 5 offers from major schools
    #5 Deshaun Seals Explosive young man
    #32 Keon Wylie 6’2 215 SO Bright Future
    #10 Kristen Mcadams 6’3 190 physical WR
    # 52 DT Class of 2021 Taleeq Robbins 6’4 280
    #24 LB Freshman kids a stud name ? 5’11 200

    But Imhotep Freshman n Sophomore were the JV n Varsity Philly teams that won PopWarner Super Bowl in Midget ( NW Raiders) /Junior Varsity ( NorthPhilly Aztecs) in 2017

    You can look @ the roster this team is huge but very young this could be a team physical like the 2016 one

  636. Kevin X says:

    Game on!!! Ummm, like literally. Just saw that 3ctv/chesmontfootball.com will have a live video stream of the C’Ville/DTW game. A thankful shoutout to the local sponsors who stepped up to the plate!! (sorry about the baseball cliche, but it works!!!)

  637. Chief Red Raider says:

    Coatesville/DTW game on Chesmontfootball (also Youtube) — got some sponsors. One might want to watch the first C’ville/DTW game too — pretty good.

    @Don: IF C’ville has zero turnovers and personal fouls they should win (but for some reason they just can’t escape the unsportsmanlike penalties — although I think their reputation leads to bad calls). Anyway, C’ville’s offense is not as explosive as in the past few years, but DTW’s defense has given up a ton of points (one could make the case that NP should have beat them). It seems like folks (and polls 🙂 ) are forgetting that C’ville already beat them at Kottmeyer. Whatever happens, both teams are very good, and I hope they do D1 proud. I hope all the remaining 6A games are as exciting as this game should be. Bleed Red and Black’s assessment is much more detailed (and probably better than mine 🙂 )

  638. Mcd65 says:

    Frank, certainly my mistake .I meant 26000 not 56000. I thought the West /Egan game was at municipal but again I could be mistaken . I was there for I believe West Catholic wins 2 years in a row with DeFelice and halfback Bobby Mahan . I think they beat Bonner in 62. Man!! brings back memories. I thought I was the only old PCL guy on here.

  639. Frank G says:

    @ Mcd65 Capacity at Shibe Park / Connie Mack Stadium was about 35,000, so there couldn’t have been anywhere near 56,000. I was at the SJP/Egan PCL Championship game in 63 at Franklin Field. No way it was more than 15% full–meaning about 10K people there. You’d be awfully glad to see that size of a crowd at any high school game in PA today. (West Catholic with Tomy DeFelice) won the championship in, I think, ’62–but I could be off a year or so about both ’62 and ’63.)

  640. Chief Red Raider says:

    D3 Mike, You make some good points, but putting WAY too much stock in Pennlive rankings — they are definitely biased towards D3. For example, many had MT coming out of the east as the next best thing since sliced bread (but barely beat CV and lost to CD) — while another team still in it was honorable mention. Besides, most rankings I’ve seen haven’t been that great anyway, and the games need to be won on the field (“on any given night”) . . . .

  641. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin.Im not a historian but I do remember attending the Catholic League championship at Municiple stadium in South Philly before it was torn down. The game was between W est Catholic and Bishop Eagan about 1963 or so.Two of my Uncles played at the old Shibe Park in the late forties one for Roman and the other for West Catholic. The games attendance was 56000. Ah the good old days. Btw I was just born then LOL.

  642. MARK D says:

    @Kevin x Dallas is stronger up front than Valley View was the last 2 years but slower don’t think that Dallas passes as well as Valley View the last 2 years but the running game is much more powerful. Defense Dallas is stronger and more Consistent Valley view gave up the big play but made big play on defense and got turnovers .Dallas is probably the most physical team i seen since the 2011 Valley View team >but as you said we don.t match up with the urban all star teams .As for D2 i like Wyoming Area and Lackawanna trail to win this week i hope Dallas can make it 3

  643. Bleed Red & Black says:


    D1 6A has the most schools in it’s classification compared to anything in the state(33). Those 33 also comprise over a 1/3 of all 6A schools in the entire state. The only other District that can compare is 2A in District 7 (31 teams), which also has 16 teams in it’s playoff. D1 & D3 6A both take a comparable number of teams to the playoff (D1 16/33 vs D3 8/18). Is 16 teams too many? You could make the case, but 8 is not nearly enough. It seems like every year a lower seed is capable of making a run of pulling an upset. This year it was Haverford. Pretty sure NP was a 9-12 seed in the last decade and made a run. The 15/16 seeds have also given the top seeds competitive games. In addition allowing only 8 teams would further penalize the ChesMont/PAC/Central league schools who are stuck playing 5A and 4A schools.

    Much like you said if a district is getting a bye during the playoffs it needs to be after the regular season and before the playoffs. At this point every team should be on an equal playing fields. No team 2-3 weeks before a state championship should be getting to rest players, while their potential opponent is risking injury. Nor should the coaches be able to be able to implement game plan during 2 weeks of practice while they prepare for a potential opponent.

    I’m sure the bump to 6 classifications is part of the issue, as for D1 5A i agree 16 teams is too many. No need for nearly 2/3 of the teams to make the playoffs. I would be perfectly fine with 10-12 teams and then have them going into a sub regional with another District, much like they do in D1 3A.

    Cville/DTW game is a toss up IMO. DTW has the better offense and more weapons with Howard/Lewis/Robinson/Pelkinson, etc compared to just Ortega and Bryant. Although the last meeting Stewart #9 for Coatesville had a field day with 9 catches and 120+ yards. Coatesville has the better Defense IMO. As always it will come down to which defense is able to get stops and/or create turnovers. The one thing I can say being a Cville fan/alum is this group of Seniors has won at every level since midget football (only a state championship has eluded them and that blame could be placed on certain coaches along the way). If DTW has a chance to bury them at some point on Friday they better make sure they do it, because all this group knows is winning and the big game of the past 3-4 years has done nothing but prepare them for Friday night.

  644. JC says:

    @Kevin X: You mischaracterize what I am trying to say. Since it’s up to the districts, the reason they would forego a bye is to get more of their teams into their playoffs. Whether or not they SHOULD do that is a completely different discussion. Shortcomings of a single-thread forum format.

  645. Irish1 says:

    Kevin X…….Veteran Stadium played host to several PCL playoff games and City Title games.

  646. Don says:

    Hey guys. Coal Region guy here. Love this time of the year. We don’t get any 6A coverage up here so I was wondering who wins the Coatsville/DTW game and does the winner have anything for St. Joe’s Prep?

  647. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    Simple/easy solution(s):

    1. Reduce playoffs from 6 weeks to 5 (move up the finals a week, this would also eliminate the current overlapping with the start of the winter sports season).
    2. 32 teams in each bracket
    3. No sub .500 teams
    4. More liberal use of subdivisions or regional playoffs, if necessary.

  648. Frank G says:

    @ Kevin X The only hs game I can recall that was played at the Linc was between public and non-public “all star” seniors several years ago. It was played in the spring. I can’t recall any games being played at the Vet. For at least a few decades the city championship game (between Catholic League and Public League champions) and sometimes the Catholic League championship game were played at Franklin Field (where the Eagles played until about 1970 and which has a capacity of about 60,000). I can’t recall it ever being nearly full; in my recollection, crowds of 5,000 to 8,000 were the norm.

  649. D3 Mike says:

    Jut, I’ve tried to explain things rationally and ignore half of what you’ve said but now I’ve lost patience. District 3 just put on a clinic on how to run a competitive 6A bracket with the 4 weeks they were given by the PIAA. Full stop.

    The district had 0 mercy rule games and the semi-finals and finals were all decided by less than a touchdown. Central Dauphin played 2 Top 10 PennLive teams to make the state semi-finals which will end up being as many – or more – than every other team in the 6A semi-finals, DESPITE having a bye this week. They played two better quality opponents just to get out of their own district than ANY other team in the state will have played to get out of their own district. They also played five teams ranked in the PennLive Top 10 during the regular season, resulting in a total of SEVEN top 10 teams they played just to get to the point where people like you talk about their unfair advantages. That’s games they had to win, plus more minutes played, more minutes played against big, strong young men, and more injuries throughout the season as a result. How’s that for unfair?

    Meanwhile, you suggested that the bye should rotate so that “D2 or D4 gets it some years”. Gets a bye for what, exactly? I’m sure this will rub people the wrong way but I could care less: most of the season from August until losing to the WPIAL rep, State College, or Archbishop Wood in November is one giant bye for the big schools in some of these districts. What’s awful about the PIAA playoff system is all of the mediocre teams that don’t belong in it, not the teams that represent the best of the best that would succeed under any format. BTW, the WPIAL winner would win 1A and 3A many years on 2 days or 2 months rest; it’s irrelevant. And there are wayyy more byes out west than in the east. It’s an imperfect system, not an inherently biased one.

  650. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    Unless you’re being sarcastic (which I can appreciate), wrong answer. Correct answer…..less teams.

    @ mark d

    I was going to ask you and other D2/upstate folks on options on Dallas. How do they compare to the Valley View teams of the past two seasons and I believe the North Pocono team that faced Imhotep 3 years ago. Seems like Dallas has a very a strong running game with a very good QB, a nice offensive combination. My one issue with them, as is with just about every other playoff D2 team, who did they play and once they get out of their D2 comfort zone (unless you’re single “A”), they get smoked. With that said, IMO, this is the year to pick off Imhotep. They are a young team, if you want to say rebuilding, I suppose you can, I’d prefer reloading for for next year. They are more of a ground team of what little I can tell. But yes, the defense is the strong point. Their weak links, IMO, are their not so special teams and discipline. Get them rattled and then keep your cool. I only saw them live in a second half of a scrimmage against Wood, the offense looked sloppy and out of sync (ok, it was mid August and a scrimmage), but the D was absolutely lock down. I don’t recall Wood getting one first down in that second half, and basically did nothing (again, just a scrimmage). This is the third game Friday night I’d like to check out.

  651. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin, I don’t believe either hosted a playoff game .The last I recall was the PCL playoff double headers at Franklin field as well as the city championships every year.

  652. Jeff H says:

    @Jut – as I’ve stated on here several times District 7 has 2 teams with byes this week, 1A Clairton and 3A Central Valley, and of course CD in District 3, so there are a total of 3 byes this week, it’s not just D3 getting the byes, and their only team with a bye is CD. This is a byproduct of going to 6 classes, I don’t remember any byes like this when there were 4 classes, does anyone else? It is up to the districts how they structure their playoffs, D1 could have taken 8 teams instead of 16 in both 6A and 5A, and both would have had their championship games last week and had a bye this week, but most districts choose to take the most teams they can, if D1 only took 8 you don’t have Haverford in the playoffs which would have been a shame. We’ll see what happens next year, but again this is primarily the result of 6 classes and not enough teams statewide in each class to make complete brackets. What the PIAA should have done is not allow D3 and D7 to take byes after their district playoffs finish, they should have made them take the bye in week 11 when the playoffs first started, that’s where I fault the PIAA, and the fact is they should have never gone to 6 classes in the first place, IMO 5 would have been the right number, we have 4 classes for 35 years (1980-2015), and then all of a sudden they go from 4 to 6, ridiculous.

  653. Kevin X says:

    @ Jut, et al

    I’ve been banging this drum about the playoffs for as long as that I’ve been posting on this site. Total agree. I’ve been advocating from anything from some simple tweakings of the current system to a complete overhaul. Anything to make the current system more competitive, fair, consistent and logical. I thought going to six classifications would have solved some of these issues, but it appears to have regressed the situation.

  654. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, this mainly to you long time Philly or Philly area guys, later today that delayed NJ HS playoff football game from Friday night will be resumed at Lincoln Financial Field. Got me thinking, has the Linc or Veterans Stadium ever hosted a high school football game by either/both the Philadelphia Eagles/City of Philadelphia, and if so, when was the last time??

  655. JC says:

    @Jut “Like the one person said if it was up to the districts getting byes then why wouldn’t they??”

    This one is easy. Get more teams into the playoffs.

  656. mark d says:

    What can any one tell me about Imhotep. i am hearing that thier not as loaded as they been the last 3 or 4 years.Are they a running team passing balanced from the scores of the game they played look like a tough defense

  657. cat pa says:

    The player in the MCA SCA game was not taken out on a late hit. Watch the SECTV broadcast of the game and not just the “youtube” version, they had many other camera angles including one right on the sidelines of the play in question and the player was clearly in bounds when he was hit even the broadcasters agreed he was. Did he need to get shoved that hard? Maybe not. It’s unfortunate he went into the bench and was injured. Hopefully its not too serious and he makes a full recovery I know he is also an excellent wrestler. I agree 100% both teams are to blame for things that went on in that game but the officials completely lost control. I also agree there were several calls that were not made against SCA that should have been but the MCA players were completely out of control after the injury to their player and were after a little payback (watch #44 at 56:35 of the youtube tape completely getting his teammates riled up) I hope in my lifetime I never see a game like that again as I was sickened and disgusted by the stuff that went on in that game and embarrassed to say I am was a fan of one of these teams. I also hope next time these teams can put this behind them and get back to some good old coal region football like the games have been before as this is one of the best rivalries in the area.

  658. Tornado Fan says:

    #28 returned the kickoff – 56 mins in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QdPy3qd4qg. He was right against the sideline so technically still in bounds but pushed out hard enough to hit the bench. There was no penalty on the play but MCA gets a personal foul for retaliation. I’m sure #14 didn’t intentionally try to hurt him but from what I’m told he has a fractured cervical vertebrae. In the play at the end of the 3rd q, I don’t think he lead with his helmet. He actually wasn’t even running, just waiting there. Its hard to see what he did after, but I’m glad to know at least it was a player and not a adult or coach who shoved him.

  659. Brian says:

    I retract my last statement as I saw him return that kick. I’m not sure how I missed that one. The hit was still a legal hit. Watch the replay on sectv8 and it will show you.

  660. Brian says:

    Tornado fan. Their best player wasn’t taken out on a late hit. He aggravated a groin or something earlier and was on the bench when the hit after the kickoff happened. If the hit on the kickoff caused someone to go into the bench where he was sitting it wasn’t a late hit. Zachmans hit occurred in bounds and I watched the replay because where I was standing I couldn’t see due to the team. However it looked like just after that some pushing began between the teams and a southern player shoved a mca player. If that’s when it happened then that’s a different story. As for the time when the cops came on the field that was due to the mca player after making the tackle which was a legal hit besides leading with the helmet which they don’t call really in high school he stepped on/over/kicked the sca player and another player not dressed for the game shoved him. I don’t condone a lot of what took place by either side.

  661. Jut says:

    Seems like this whole Byes in state playoffs is a joke. Even local papers saying how bad it is like it must be nice to get rest while of teams battle to play the following week. How it’s only one district getting all the byes too which isn’t fair. Like the one person said if it was up to the districts getting byes then why wouldn’t they?? So this was all PIAA doing which is nonsense. Hopefully next year they change all the brackets around. Only way to make it fair

  662. D3 Mike says:

    Mr. Drago reporting that Berks Catholic just added Pope John Paul II to next year’s schedule. So with 3A enrollment, here is their current slate:

    Central Dauphin (6A), Roman Catholic (6A), Reading (6A), Malvern Prep (5A), Exeter (5A), Governor Mifflin (5A), Daniel Boone (5A), Muhlenberg (5A), Pope John Paul II (3A).

    Can I get a preliminary scouting report on those Philly area teams for next year? Because that looks like a grand total of maybe 4 wins? Brutal.

  663. Jeff H says:

    What do you D3 guys think of Michael Whitehead being forced out as coach at CV? I read his statement on PennLive and certainly appears he is handling it in a classy way, is he the one to blame for their slide the last few years? I know the buck stops at the top, but seems to me he didn’t have a lot of top end talent to work with recently and the school board may have some unrealistic expectations.

    @Colonial Fan – congrats on So Lehigh’s win last week, would love to see them knock off Wood on Friday, I too think the game will be close and you guys definitely have a shot to advance.

    @D3 Mike – I think Coatesville vs. DTW will be the best quarterfinal game, although Nazereth vs. SJP might be interesting if McCord doesn’t play again, at least for a while. I certainly wouldn’t bother making the long trip to North Allegheny to watch PCC vs. State College, expect that to be a dull game with a lot of 3 and outs just like the WPIAL championship game, although I do think SC has a realistic chance to beat them. I could go to that game but I’m going to see round 4 of TJ vs. Erie Prep, I’m very curious how TJ stacks up this year, and expect that to be a more entertaining game than PCC vs. SC, along with the fact the winner will be the clear favorite to win 4A.

  664. Tornado Fan says:

    @D3 Mike
    I agree with your analysis of the MCA/SCA game completely. Nobody had any doubt Southern would come out on top of this game, so I’m not sure why the refs felt they needed to help.

    @cat pa
    MCA was already losing big, had arguably their best player taken out of the game on a late hit and was seriously injured and MCA kept getting called for personal fouls while Southern did not. I can understand their frustration. As you said, it was the seniors last game, so I see no issue with keeping most of them in through the 3rd Q. So SCA has 2 players push the MCA kid on the sidelines but somehow MCA has 2 players ejected and SCA 1? It was one of the most disappointing games I have seen in a long time and it wasn’t due to the score. Looking forward to a more competitive, civil and better officiated game next year.

  665. JC says:

    @D3 Mike: This is still one thing I’m uncertain about. Did PIAA give D3 a bye, or did PIAA give D3 a semifinal spot and tell them “figure out a district champion”? If the prerogative is on D3 and not PIAA, then theoretically any district could have a bye this week if they really wanted it.

  666. Brian says:

    Am I seeing that bishop McDevitt is hosting this round but yet traveling an hour longer to play Richland? Shouldn’t Richland have to travel longer?

  667. D3 Mike says:

    Hypothetically, let’s say I lived in a district that the PIAA gave a bye to so that’s it’s 6A team had a chance to rest up (lol)… what 6A quarterfinal game should I drive to this weekend and why?

  668. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    If that C’Ville/DTW is indeed a pre-game SO (or even if not, don’t know if I want to risk an hours drive thru suburban Philly Friday rush hour traffic to get shut out at the window), looks like I’ll be seeing you Friday night 🙂 Buy you a drink at The Perk post game in celebration, or a congrats on a great season and run……

  669. Kevin X says:

    To follow-on BR&B’s post……at least from a DTW standpoint……


  670. Brian says:

    Thanks for the explanation fball fan. Southern is on the top half but the bottom of the top for this round. That makes sense so sca should be on the visitors side this week and home side next week if they win.

  671. Bleed Red & Black says:

    For anybody planning on making the trip to Kottmeyer Friday night for the D1 Championship, tickets are being sold at both schools Tues-Thur. Limit of 6 tickets per person

    Coatesville: 4pm-6pm at the Visitors Ticket Booth at the stadium
    Downingtown- 9am-2pm DTW West Office Lobby

    Tickets sold at the gate are dependent on number of tickets sold during the presale. I would advise if you can to get your tickets ahead of time!

  672. Mike says:

    Better get your D West/ Coatesville tickets early; looks like they are going to sell out

  673. fball fan says:

    Maybe I can clarify some of the confusion on the location of the SCA/UDA game this Friday. First, SCA is not in the bottom of the bracket, they’re in the top half meaning the opening round would be an “away” game and if they won, the second round game would be a “home” game. What I was told was that the schools that had applied to host PIAA playoff games from District 3 were all located south of UDA. For whatever reason, UDA was not interested in playing south and requested a northern location. The next closest school that had applied to host a PIAA game was Selinsgrove. UDA agreed to play there and is still the “home” team. I understand that it looks like Selinsgrove is much closer to SCA but in reality Selinsgrove is 33 miles from UDA and 30 miles from SCA so there really is no difference. In an odd quirk, if SCA wins on Friday, it’s rumored that they would be the “home” team at Selinsgrove next week for the Eastern Final.

  674. JC says:

    That Northeast team has some serious speed. Wish we could have seen a Northeast-La Salle matchup, La Salle would be favored but it would be a cracker of a matchup.

    This hypothetical is way out there, but what if 6A used the rules for the world chess championship? All of the challengers play a tournament amongst each other, and the winner faces the champion for the title. It would never happen, but imagine a final eight of Northeast/La Salle, Nazareth, Harrisburg, Central Dauphin, Coatesville, Downingtown West, State College, and Pittsburgh Central Catholic in a bracket for the right to face St. Joe’s. Would be fascinating to follow.

  675. Jay says:


    Absolutely right, it was Clairton in 2014. I just watched a clip on YouTube of it, it was really bad. I still wonder what exactly set that all off. I know emotions run high and they weren’t accustomed to losing but still it makes me wonder. I’m about to look for the SC/MC game online.


    Definitely make the trip to Kottmeyer. I know it’s a hike for you but come on! You know this game is going to be great. And then the following week you’ll come out to the area a fourth time in a row for the East Final lol. If you do come and you see a dude with a chick with green hair, that’s me an my fiancée (can’t miss her haha) definitely say what’s up. I’ll be on the Coatesville side if I get there early enough to grab a seat. I imagine the game is going to be full to capacity and actually on that note I might go to Dtown HS this week to grab a ticket if they’re selling them like they do sometimes.

    Still not sure about a prediction but I’m definitely leaning towards Coatesville if only because their defense is playing well despite giving up the occasional big play.

  676. David Mika says:

    Mark D….You are correct…..Some stadiums may not be available.

  677. mark d says:

    @D3 Mike Delaware Valley ended up with that Schedule becuse D2 they decided to break it by school size Abington,West, North Pocono are the larger AAAA schools in the lackawanna conference in division 1 with Delaware Valley so that how thy ended up with that Schedule>pulse with the cross over with the Wyoming valley conference they had all their 5 and 6 A schools so that left the Wyoming valley to play lacakawanna AAAA Now i not saying that Delaware Valley would have matched up with State Collage but they were a real banged up team going in to the game it my understanding they lost 3 starters in the Wilkes Barre play off
    @ Dave it my understanding that a lot of these playoff sites are determined by who will make their stadium available it not like the piaa has the choice of any place they want

  678. ColonialFan says:

    @Kevin X
    I’ll throw my vote in for Southern vs Wood. I honestly think it’s going to be a game and not just because I’m biased to one side. We shall see.

    @NW PA
    Wow…the win was awesome, but was hoping for a little more fight from Oil City. Well Petro fought, but only to get himself ejected. We were confident going in, but didn’t anticipate a cake walk. I know they had injuries, but even still, full strength, maybe they get two scores.

  679. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – after watching Pittsburgh Central Catholic set offensive football back 50yrs last night (the old Woody Hayes 3 yards and a cloud of dust) I feel pretty confident that CD would beat them, as PCC wouldn’t score enough points, I think it would a 14-3 or 14-7 type of game. If you can shut down PCC’s run game, like PR did last night, they are not going to score many points, their passing game is anemic at best, and unless they got a defensive and/or special teams touchdown I think any of the top 4 teams in D3 would likely beat them, as would Coatesville and some other D1 and D11 schools. WPIAL 6A is down significantly this year, I’ve been saying it since early in the season, D1, D3, D11 and D12 with SJP, Lasalle and Northeast are better than WPIAL 6A this year, the real strength of the WPIAL is 5A, and with PR moving to 5A next year it will be brutal.

    @Philly Boy – I have all the respect in the world for Cherpak, you don’t win 8 WPIAL titles, tied for most in WPIAL history with Bob Palko, and 3 state titles without being a great coach, I just wish he wouldn’t whine to the media about ECP, its unseemly and don’t think it helps his team.

    @NW PA – I don’t know as much about this ECP team as the last few years, I saw them 1-2 times a year the last 3 years, but haven’t seen them yet this year, so thanks for the scouting report. I’ve said for years TJ’s schedule haunts them in the state playoffs, whereas ECP’s schedule is a real benefit, completely agree both St Ed’s and Benedictine are better than TJ. The problem TJ has to overcome is ECP will be by far the best team they have played all year, while Prep has already played several teams as good or better than TJ. Should be a great game, if TJ is ever going to beat them this could be the year. Will you be making the trip down to North Hills for this game? If so would love to meet and say hi and maybe watch the game together, I don’t mind sitting on the ECP side.

  680. David Mika says:

    I know what you’re saying….Sometimes I don’t understand how they do it.

  681. Brian says:

    Dave, I know it switches every year that is why I’m puzzled. Southern played York Catholic at shamokin last year in this round. They should travel this year and are on the bottom of the bracket in this round.

  682. cat pa says:

    It was not a coach that shoved the kid in the mca sca game it was a player who was not suited up for the game. He was ejected and escorted off the field. not really sure what that means since he wasnt playing but it was not a coach.

  683. Brian says:

    Dave, they hosted at shamokin last year against York Catholic in this round. They are hosting at Selinsgrove again this year. Which means it didn’t switch. They hosted 2 years in a row. They are on the bottom of this bracket. I know it switches each year which is why I’m confused.

  684. District 3 Commish says:

    My sources tell me Dave Gingrich is resigning as the Cocalico head coach after the completion of their season.

  685. Steve Fisher says:

    Brian that’s what I thought also. Southern would be at West Perry or susquehanna township. Not a game close. This might be uda first game on turf this year.

  686. David Mika says:

    Brian, It switches every year.

  687. Brian says:

    After all these years I’m still trying to understand brackets and locations. Last year Southern was on the top part of the bracket and host York catholic at shamokin. I figured they would travel this year to district 3 area but they’re playing at Selinsgrove. They’re on the bottom this round. I’m confused. I’m not going to complain. A 20 minute drive is better than an hour plus drive.

  688. NW PA says:

    What a great weekend of games around the state. A few thoughts going forward: Except Erie McDowell there isn’t any 6A teams in this part of the state but I do try and follow this class. Assuming McCord is able to play obviously St Joe is the favorite, but I like the parody among the rest of the teams. You guys (and girls) in the Harrisburg and Philly area are lucky to have such great football. Central Dauphin, Harrisburg, Wilson, Manheim Township, Coatsville, Downtingtown, and the rest of them are all great programs and I’d like to get over to the east and see them in action more often. In 5A, hats off to Oil City on a nice season. As I had stated earlier they are obviously not a top 10 (or even 20) 5A team. The WPIAL champ will be the favorite, but maybe Wood or Cedar Cliff or Cocalico could give them a good game. In 3A I like Montoursville to win it all. I think Sharon beats Bald Eagle Area but then looses to Central Valley. Its gonna be Central Valley and Montoursville in the finals take it to the bank. In 2A I see Wilmington winning this week against Ridgeway but then comes a tough one against whoever comes out of the WPIAL (I think its gonna be Avonworth). Obviously everyone is playing for silver because Southern Columbia is so much better than the rest. In 1A I think Clairton and Farrell are on a collision course and whoever wins that game will be heavily favored in the finals.

    @Jeff H: You know me too well. The time has finally come for showdown we all knew was coming. I obviously am an Erie Cathedral guy, that being said, this should be a good game. Make no mistake about it, TJ will not be blown out and if there was a year for them to knock off Cathedral, this is it. TJ handily beat a very good Central Valley team, a team that could very well win the 3A title. Their schedule wasn’t too challenging, but they start quite a few seniors and they are very big and physical. Cathedral is undersized but very fast and has some very tough kids. In my mind TJ should be the favorite, they’re undefeated. Now for the other side of the coin. Erie Cathedral is battle tested. Their schedule really helps them prepare for the playoffs. They lost (21-14) to a very good St Eds who may win the big school title in Ohio but the weather was incredibly windy. I think under better conditions Eds puts up another couple scores. They also lost to a very good Benedictine team. I don’t think TJ is as good as either team they they lost to. Prep has used 2 different quarterbacks this season and they both are pretty good. Their 2 star recievers (Carson and Odekoven) will both be all state. Both of them are incredibly fast and never drop anything. Prep has the advantage with skill guys but TJ has the advantage on the line. I’ve seen both teams play this season and I still don’t know how the game will pan out.

  689. Kevin X says:

    All of three games this Saturday. None of them even remotely close to D1/D12, D3 or D11 territory. Stinks!!!!

    So Friday night, Southern Lehigh vs. Wood in my backyard, or travel back to Kottmeyer for the third week in a row for C’Ville vs. DTW?? UGH!!!!

  690. Eric W/D3 says:

    Be curious to see what 12-0 Upper Dauphin can bring to the table next week against SC? I know SC is on a diff. planet and have mercy ruled and shutout all in the post season, but just for the sake of argument…Some UD stats that are pretty impressive…
    QB 1900+ rushing with 38 rushing td’s
    RB 1400+ rushing with 18 rushing TD’s

    5000 yds team rushing w/75 td’s, 9.4 carry
    Offense, over 500 total yds 7x

    Defense 20 TO and 38 sacks.

    Keep in mind I have no idea what the Tri-Valley league is like. Still pretty crazy numbers.

  691. cat pa says:

    @ Tornado fan
    The person was ejected and that ejection was offset by one of mca’s ejections. Since mca had another person ejected thats why only one was marked off the others offset each other. Much of the second half “antics” could have easily been avoided had the mca coach subed out some of his starters. He left them out there against the sca second and third teamers and they took out their frustrations from the first half not going as they had hoped and proceeded to “beat-up” and not play football against the younger less experienced players which led to more bad blood between the players. I realize many of the mca players were seniors playing in their last game and wanted to give them as much playing time as possible but with the situation being as volitile as it was I think he could have used better judgement and got some of those players out of there. It was terrible to watch the game the way it went down between two schools with such a long history of football pride be tarnished by all the extra curricular activities going on by both teams. Not how you want this game to be remembered.

  692. Kevin X says:

    OK, did I see that correctly, that the MCA team priest got ejected from that game last night?? Team priest, seriously?? You really can’t make this stuff up, can you?? Sure this wasn’t West Catholic and N-G??

  693. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman, yeah I totally get the Berks Catholic schedule. If Exeter’s coaches don’t have brain freeze in week 2, BC goes 5-5. And yes, Wyomissing might win it all in 3A but a final 8 team in 4A should at least be able to put points on the board. I was at that game and they looked completely lost on offense. I don’t think the school had ever been shut out in the regular season in its history before that game, had it? And yeah, obviously McDonogh and CD are completely out of their league but Exeter? Gettysburg?

    Just hard to figure out where that offensive explosion came from. Hopefully they have one more game like that in the tank but considering this year’s BC team is probably 3-4 D1 players and 3-4 TDs behind their 2016-2018 versions a district title in a down 4A field is probably the best they can do. I think you’ll agree that whichever team wins D3 is going to get smoked by the TJ/ECP winner this year.

  694. D3 Mike says:

    Yeah thanks for posting about the Mt Carmel vs SCA game. After I read that I found it on YouTube. I don’t have a dog in the fight but a) wow, was that game terribly officiated, and b) SCA should receive their share of the blame. There was a play in the 2Q along the sideline where the Mt Carmel kid got hit out of bounds and into the team bench, and then right after that a play where the SCA lineman basically DDT’d a kid (sort of accidentally) but wayyyy after the whistle. No penalty. And then all of the long delays due to the injuries and flags only made a bad situation worse, since the kids had nothing better to do than get riled up.

    Also I agree – the coach pushing the tackler and not getting penalized was a freaking joke, as the tornado fan mentioned. Really if you watch the play that ended up sending the cops onto the field it was mostly an unlucky confluence of events. It’s 49-0 in the district final against your rival. You’re blocking downfield on what should be a punt return and all of a sudden you see the SCA punter sprinting down the sideline. That Mt Carmel tackler clearly thought it was a fake punt. He didn’t see the run was due to a high snap. I’m not excusing the extra curriculars but I get how it happened.

    Best tweet of the night was the guy from the Bloomsburg paper. “Cops are now on the field. Two Mt. Carmel players and the team priest have been ejected.” Freaking epic lol.

    The one thing I think is dumb is the auto suspension rule for any ejection. Mt Carmel will get the bad rap here because they were the only side to have players ejected but I thought the refs only did that because Mt Carmel doesn’t have a game next week. If they wanted to control the game people from BOTH sides should have been ejected in the 2nd quarter, but they didn’t want to hamstring the winner (SCA) for next week IMO.

  695. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    Not yet. I’ll find it tho. I have two weeks to check it out before they play in the D1/D3 game. It will be on my mid week evening to do list, after I first check out the C’Ville/Garnet game 🙂

    Don’t know what transpired upstate in the SCA/MC game, but I remember an ugly incident between an entitled Clairton team and a winning Bishop Guilfoyle team in a state championship game a few years ago. None of this tho comes close to the crap (trying to pick my words wisely here, really none come to mind to describe it) that went down in that game in the AC area Friday night.

  696. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Jay, I think CD is a real good team, I just didn’t get the thought that either D1 team is in trouble and has no answers. I think every team is beatable at this point (even SJP). No doubt CD could beat either DTW or C’ville, but IMO I would give a bit of an edge to D1.

    By the way, what happened to the “They (SJP) will mercy rule everyone” mantra? I think some were even saying they would mercy rule everyone in the 1st half. 🙂 Hey Buddy, you might get to watch the championship game after all 🙂

  697. FrankG says:

    @ Phillyboy SJP weren’t resting McCord. He’s injured.

  698. Matt says:

    @Jay….I believe that was single A Clairton vs Bishop G game in 2014 or 15.

  699. phillyboy says:

    @ Jeff H — Have respect for TJ’s coach and what he has accomplished notwithstanding any “cherping” about all-star teams. Remember they crushed Wood in the state final back around ’08. That was when you could live stream the state finals for free on PCN. They must have hired a Wharton grad soon after because things changed abruptly; better have your credit card number ready going forward. Anyway, earlier in the year I was hoping McDowell might take out Erie Prep even though I didn’t believe it, for real for real. Dog gone it, if I were retired I might drive out there to see this one. If I knew TJ would win, heck, I might drive out now. But that’s a long, dark, cold and expensive trip especially if your team loses. Somebody was opining that this is one of TJ’s better teams in recent years. TJ needs to bring their total ‘A’ game like PR did against SJP a couple years back. They need to pack the house like it’s a Texas state final, you feel me?

    Also, was curious, how much is a ticket at the Steelers stadium for a WPIAL final? Do you get to see all games for one price? And do they charge for parking? Always respected how they play at the Steelers stadium for that, In my personal opinion, that’s telling, in some small way says something about the quality of the local culture.

    In regards to McCord not playing against Northeast, they might have been resting him deliberately since they were only playing the Philadelphia Public League champ. It’s a matter of conservation.

  700. Tornado Fan says:

    @ ucitaire
    I found it amazing that a Southern COACH (or other adult on the sideline) was able to run up and shove a MCA player after a tackle near their sideline and not get penalized. But it was all Mt. Carmel right? FYI it’s on YouTube, 0:23 left in the 3rd q.

  701. Jay says:


    Did you find the CD-Hburg game yet and check it out? Like Chief said it’s on YouTube. I’m curious what another D1 guy thinks of them based on watching that game, looking at their schedule, and yes also factoring in their bye week. Chief wasn’t too impressed it doesn’t look like.

    I haven’t even looked at todays results yet aside from the comments below but that’s sad to hear about the Mount Carmel – SoCo game getting out of hand. It reminds me of a few years back when things got really really out of control like that at the end of a state final in Hershey. I feel like it was Imhotep vs ECP but I apologize in advance if I’m wrong about that. I just remember being there like “oh no, what a terrible way to finish the day”

  702. Ucitare says:

    Sac beat mt Carmel 49-0 tonite. Mt Carmel dishonered itself with the most thuggish display of cheap shots and unsportsman like conduct. Police needed to restore order.

  703. Bleed Red & Black says:

    Ortega’s injury was to his hamstring area

    Coatesville stats guys seemed to indicate it was cramping. He was getting it stretched on the sideline shortly after the 1st long TD run. Did some more stretching after the half.

    Definitely had a impact in the 2nd/3rd Quarters but if it was just cramping he will be as healthy as he has been all season heading into next week.

    We will see if DTW gives the Cville Wrs 10yd cushion all night. Oretga picked them apart on short passes in the 1st meeting. Bryant and Stewart (#9) both had 100+ yards. Expect another classic at Kott Friday night. Gonna come down to which defense can make the most plays.

  704. Kevin X says:

    Mmmm, seems like The Prep has issues with public schools……… 🙂

    Anyone have an update on McCord and why he was on the sidelines in street clothes this evening??

  705. Chief Red Raider says:

    SJP better hope they get their QB back, cause they are definitely not invincible (as some think) without him. Yeah, they beat NE, but if you listened to the game you’ll know what I mean.

  706. Jeff H says:

    As expected TJ cruised to a 41-7 win over Belle Vernon after taking a 35-0 lead at half to set up a quarterfinal game next week against Erie Prep for the 4th time in the last 5 yrs. I hope for the sake of his team TJ coach Bill Cherpak doesn’t come out in the media this week and complain about having to playing the “Erie All-Stars” like he has in years past, I think he does his team a disservice by whining about the advantages ECP has. I expect this game to be very competitive and likely TJ’s best chance to win since 2015 when they lost by a TD up in Erie, it has to been in Pittsburgh this year since it’s been in Erie the last 2 and I’m hoping to be there. I’m sure NW PA will chime in with his thoughts and I’ll have more to say about this game later in the week.

  707. Jeff H says:

    @ Chief Red Raider & Buddy – WPIAL 1A and 3A winners have byes next week, like they have the last 3 years, the coaches who have commented on record have said they welcome the bye this time of year, gives the kids a chance to recharge and heal and game plan for the next opponent. I have a hunch CD doesn’t mind the bye next week after 2 physical, emotional games against MT and Harrisburg. The byes are another one of the drawbacks of 6 classes, I don’t recall any teams getting byes this late in the playoffs when we had 4 classes.

  708. Jeff H says:

    Central Valley survived a valiant and emotional effort from Aliquippa to win 13-12 in OT. Aliquippa QB Morris Vaughn’s mom died last night, and the Quips played their hearts out, in a moving tribute of respect and sportsmanship the CV captains went over to the Quips sideline before the game to offer their support and condolences. Aliquippa had the perfect game plan, run the ball effectively and move the chains and keep CV’s offense off the field, the Quips lead 6-0 at half and held the ball for almost 17 minutes, CV only ran 13 plays all half. Both teams moved the ball in the 2nd half and would get a few first downs before being forced to punt, CV finally scored in the 4th quarter to tie it but missed the point, In OT CV had the ball and scored and made the kick, the Quips then scored on an 11 yard run on 2nd down and went for the 2 point conversion and were stopped at the 2 yard line. CV has a bye next week and will probably end up playing Sharon in 2 weeks in the western final.

    In the first game Clairton had an impressive 41-19 win over a very good Sto-Rox team. Clairton is a complete team, very good defense, lots of playmakers on offense and a dual threat QB who has rushed for over 1,000 yards and throws a very nice ball to a stable of good, quick receivers. I think they are the favorite in 1A, they get a bye next week and will almost certainly play Farrell in the western final in 2 weeks, IMO the winner of that game will be the favorite in Hershey.

  709. Foleman says:

    Tamaqua/PJP was surprised how strong Tamaqua was up front, running back Boyle is as tough as they come in HS, their QB is very accurate, I thought Wyo would role over the PJP/Tamaqua winner, now I see the game as a pick em. The collisions that will occur between Wyo’s LB Niedrowski and Boyle will be worth the price of admission.

    Middletown had a TD called back on a chop block in the 2nd half which completely changed the momentum of the game, Wyo scored a short time after to go up 2 scores, Eric, I though Middletown got hosed on the 4th and one stop, I was right there and it looked like Wyo was short of the marker.

    BC’S Coach Keeley said that Milton Hershey was probably the 5th or 6th best team BC played, I also was surprised by BC putting up 49 points but look at who they played:

    McDonough-11-0 playing for the MD State Championship, ranked #4 in MD, #39 nationally
    Central Dauphin-District 3 6A champ and my pick to go to the 6A final
    Malvern Prep-Had a down year but plays in the most competitive league in the State
    Wyomissing-District 3 3A Champ, they have their best team since the State Championship team several years ago
    Exeter-made it to the 5A District 3 Semi’s
    Hamburg-eastern Conference Champion, BC had 7 starters out that game

  710. Eric W/D3 says:

    Great game today. Wyo takes down Middletown 24-21. Keys to the game, turnovers Middletown 3, Wyomissing 0. Plus, Lopez for Middletown shut down in first half, although their OL was starting to control Wyo DL in second half. Two good teams played a great game.

  711. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Kevin X: Ricky was gimping around like he aggravated his previous ankle or foot injury. He played pretty well the 2nd half, but needs to be healthy to have a shot at moving on. Bryant carried the ball a few times, but I thought they underutilized his talent. I don’t think there were any direct snaps or handoffs from backfield — a couple jet sweeps. Didn’t send many passes his way either — weird.

  712. Kevin X says:

    @ Chief

    Ricky’s injury last night a re-aggravation of an existing issue, heard toe, ankle, foot, all in the past several weeks, or something new?? Was Bryant in the backfield last night??

    @ Buddy

    Somewhat off topic, (OK, global football), maybe lift your spirits, congrats to the NP boys soccer team on a state championship, as well as the LC and Boyertown girls.

    @ D3 Commish


  713. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Jay, Yeah you were right — just watched it — H-burg got ripped on the fumble/no fumble call. Didn’t H-burg have issues with the refs in the earlier matchup too? Now I’m really not seeing CD as the favorite against D1.

  714. D3 Mike says:

    Jay, someone closer to the CD program would have insight into the underclassmen but at least as far as the seniors go, their line has Air Force, Temple, and East Stroudsburg commits. Would love to see them go up against PCC’s beef in Hershey but that’s obviously a long-shot.

  715. Buddy says:

    The general consensus is most coaches and players don’t like bye weeks. Breaks the momentum.

    Yep, the 2 best teams are in the D1, 6A final, I agree. They can only look forward to winning the semi-final,

    the final is a forgone conclusion. That’s a shame. I won’t even watch the final, too painful.

  716. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Kevin X: The CD/H-burg is on Youtube — was just watching some of it (Sorry Jay, not seeing CD as the favorite against either DTW or C’ville). Yeah, Howard is good, but I’m pretty sure Ortega outplayed him the first meeting (and is still setting PA HS career records). He looked a bit injured last night — we’ll see if that impacts next week. Also, don’t forget Bryant. Not sure his abilities are always used to max in any given game, but my guess is that he will see the ball a bit more on Friday.

  717. District 3 Commish says:

    If the demographic of the athletic teams do not match the demographic of the student population then there is a larger problem within the entire school district.

  718. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    The 6A D1/D3 game almost definitely be in D1 territory. I would assume (and this is a big assumption, we are dealing with the PIAA after al) is that the game would be at Kottmeyer or Coatesville, depending on the outcome of Friday’s tilt (the again, I’d be more than happy at the likes of Pennridge :)).

    The video of H-Burg and CD, on the NFHS, or somewhere public and free?? YouTube??

    Will Howard showed why he is one of, if not best, senior QBs in the state this year, and off to Kansas State. Basically Howard v. Blair (22 rushes for 249 yds, 3 TD passes, thought I saw). And more than worth the price of admission (seriously, where can you get an event and entertainment like that for all of $5?? (and free parking!!!)). Credit Haverford and Blair fighting to the bitter end, especially when they were down 42-14 late in the third quarter. Two very costly first half fumbles did them in, IMO. Otherwise it was like a tennis match and Haverford couldn’t break DTW’s serve. Once again, can’t wait for next Friday and the third weekend in a row visiting Kottmeyer!!!

  719. Mike A says:

    Michael Whitehead out after seven seasons as Cumberland Valley football coach, report says

  720. D3 Mike says:

    Well at least Cedar Cliff won, otherwise I posted an 0-fer last night.

    Central Dauphin is legit. Their sophomore QB went 13-for-15 behind a line that dominated all night (on both sides of the ball) – as they have since the Wilson game. Congrats to a classic lunch pail type of team to go from 1-2 to a district title in 6A.

    Cannot believe Berks Catholic posted 49 points. Exeter 14. McDonogh 7. Central Dauphin 7. Hamburg 9. Malvern 7. Wyomissing 0. Milton Hershey 49. Makes total sense lol. If anything, that performance bodes well for Wyomissing this afternoon. Wyomissing completely shut down BC, who demolished Milton Hershey, who in turn handled Middletown.

    2A title game last week, 6A last night, 3A today, 4A and 5A next week … all a bunch of coin flips in district 3, IMO. Don’t think we have any state winners but an amazing year of competitive playoff football in district 3.

  721. Jay says:

    So I’ve had all night to reflect on last nights results, and since I work overnights on the weekends, I was able to rewatch the Coatesville game, find all available clips of the West game (very limited) and then watch the Central Dauphin/Harrisburg game.

    West and Coatesville are the class of District One. There’s no disputing it, and I could not be more excited for next weeks game nor anymore in awe of their considerable talents. But how in the world are either of them going to beat CD?! Let me just say. Harrisburg’s line on either side of the ball was comprised of large, fast, scary men. And CD’s lines seemed bigger, like 30 year old heavyweight UFC fighters or something. Idk, maybe it was the camera angles. Their running back Timmy something is fast as lightning and finds the gaps, their QB Max Mosie (sp?) is quick and decisive and very accurate with his short and long passes, and he has multiple weapons. Whilst being protected by those UFC fighters.

    I will say that Harrisburg got hosed on a CD fumble non-call that set up their game winning score, but it was a tough call and the refs don’t have the technology to correct themselves unfortunately. And maybe it wouldn’t have changed the outcome. But Harrisburg had momentum, and it just might have.

    Either way, CD looks scary. I’m sure our resident District 3 experts will chime in.

    My biggest question is, since the Eastern final was played in D3 territory last year, will it be played in D1 territory in two weeks? Do they alternate each year? If a well rested CD team gets basically a home game… then they’ll definitely be the ones eaten alive by SJP the following Saturday 🙁

  722. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Jeff H: Not sure what to think of CD having an extra week off — I never coached — wonder if some coaches have an opinion? My guess is it could throw them out of routine or cut down on the intensity. It looks like Ortega re-injured his ankle and could use a couple weeks too, but first they have to deal with DTW. No matter what, it is a dumb playoff format in some ways.

    Another note on the C’ville/GV game. In some ways It was a lot closer than the final score (a couple pick sixes at the end), but I think CV had 3 fumbles that were converted into TD’s by GV. Also, was pretty impressed with CV’s defense — really stopped the running attack in the 2nd half. Moreover, CV should have scored 2 or 3 more times but got stalled (I thought some of the play calling was interesting — GET THE BALL TO BRYANT! REPEAT, GET THE BALL TO BRYANT! — he might be the most exciting player in PA).

  723. Jeff H says:

    @Chief Red Raider – agree with you Coatesville and Dwest are 2 best teams in D1 and fitting they will meet in the finals, I’ve thought that for a while now, winner of that game is going to have their hands full with a hot CD team that gets next week off. Now let the bitching and moaning begin about how unfair it is for the D3 winner to have a bye next week!! And I don’t disagree, but it is what it is, we’ll see what the PIAA does with the brackets for the next 2 yr cycle.

  724. Jeff H says:

    Since Penn Trafford star running back Caleb Lisbon was lost for the season in September due to a knee injury the question has been whether PT had enough offense to win a WPIAL and also perhaps a state title, tonight we found out the answer to that question is no, as they lost to Peters Township 28-10. PT dominated the first half but only led 3-0 at halftime after having the ball in the red zone 4 times, twice getting stopped on downs and then missing a 35 yard field goal as time expired. Peters went into halftime feeling really fortunate to only be down 3-0, they promptly came out and took the 2nd half kick and went on a 61 yard drive to take a 7-3 lead. On the ensuing possession PT got a couple of first downs but then after a 10 yard completion the receiver was stripped of the ball which was returned 43 yards for a TD to make it 14-3. After an interception on the next play from scrimmage Peters again went on a scoring drive to make it 21-3. PT came back to make it 21-10, but then with a little under 5 minutes to go another int was returned 50 yards for a touchdown to make it 28-10 for the final score of the night.

    Peters plays for their first district championship next week against Gateway, a 14-7 winner over McKeesport. I picked Gateway before the playoffs started but I really like Peters chances, they have a much better defense than Gateway, are better on both lines and more physical. I’ve been touting Peters on this board all season, even after they lost to Moon, if I’m making PennLives state rankings I have Peters as #1, but you can bet they will have Gateway #1 and Wood probably #2, but don’t be surprised if you see Peters Township in Hershey in 3 weeks.

  725. Chief Red Raider says:

    Coatesville 48-27 over GV. I think they were trying to set the record for the most unsportsmanlike penalties in a key playoff game. Ortega is limping around again, but set record as only QB to pass for 2000 yards every year. Maybe Pennlive (and some other ranking sites 🙂 ) will take note. Not sure what to think of another DTW/C’ville game — but I do think they are the 2 best teams in D1.

  726. Jay says:

    I meant to say the last time they met at Garnet Calley, of course. Haven’t forgotten last years destruction in Coatesville. 42-7 or something like that.

    So there’s a big revenge factor at play too…

  727. Jay says:

    It’s almost game time! The fiancée and I are about to head from my house (Coatesville) to her alma mater (Garnet Valley) to see what I expect to be an instant classic dogfight. Garnet Valley is better than they were last year, Coatesville has come down a notch, and the Jaguars in recent history have a great home field advantage. The last time the two teams met it took an Aaron Young pick-six with about a minute to play for Coatesville to steal that game – one that Garnet Valley was moments away from winning, sans turnover.

    There’s no sense in predicting a winner, because I’ve sucked at it in these playoffs. I’ll be pulling for Coatesville and Downingtown and hoping that at least one of them win, since otherwise my teams are done for the year. (I don’t stop watching until after Hershey and then two weeks later when the Texas 6A-II is over with, but we all have our squads and know it isn’t the same once their seasons are over, and that’s a fear I’m feeling presently).

    Good luck to everyone and stay warm!

  728. JC says:

    A D11 look:

    6A: Nazareth vs. Parkland. Parkland is on a roll and is healthier, but Nazareth has the best player in Anthony Harris. Ultimately it’s hard to ignore Parkland’s playoff history, Parkland wins by a score.

    5A: Southern Lehigh vs. Oil City (D10). It’s been discussed that Oil City maybe has had a weak schedule. Solehi’s schedule isn’t one to write home about either, but they’ve been more dominant in their wins. Spartans win by 10.

    4A: Pottsville vs. Allentown Central Catholic. An anticipated semifinal round lived up to its billing. This will be another toss-up. Central is on a nice run and it’s hard to beat Beca and ACC in consecutive weeks, so I pick them to win by 3 points.

    3A: Tamaqua vs. Pope John Paul II (D12). PJP is favored, but I have a feeling they may start slow after an emotional win over N-G. Maybe wishful thinking, but I pick Tamaqua to hold off a late comeback by PJP.

    1A: Williams Valley vs. Lackawanna Trail (D2). Williams Valley has had some success over D2 in the 1A playoffs, and Lackawanna Trail is not as good as they were last year. Williams Valley by 10. The winner likely has the inside track to be the “East” representative in the semifinals.

  729. Jeff H says:

    For those that have an interest here’s my WPIAL outlook for the weekend:

    6A – #1 PCC vs. #2 Pine Richland – these schools have combined to win the last 6 WPIAL titles, with each winning 3, PCC of course won the regular season game 29-7 in week 6 with a dominating performance from their DLine that had PR quarterback Cole Spencer under siege all night. Expect this game to be much closer, PR has a big advantage in coaching, I have a feeling Coach K. comes up with a game plan to get his play-makers the ball in space and PR finds a way to win their third straight district title, winner likely plays State College next week, I like everyone else think they beat Del Valley by probably 3 scores.

    5A – #1 Penn Trafford vs. #5 Peters Township – I have been looking forward to this game since the brackets were announced and will be there, bonus that it’s being played about 5 minutes from my house! They played a classic last year in the playoffs, score was tied 21-21 after the first quarter, and 28-28 at half before things settled down and Peters won 38-35 on a FG as time expired. I expect this game to be just as close, although I would be very surprised if they score that many points again as both teams are very good defensively, I’m leaning towards Penn Trafford but this game could go either way, IMO winner is the favorite to win the WPIAL title next week and advance to Hershey.

    #2 Gateway vs. #6 McKeesport – Gateway won the first match-up 36-7 in the final game of the regular season, since then they’ve struggled, needing a TD in the last minute to get by a game Bethel Park team last week 17-13, while McKeesport knocked off defending champ Penn Hills. If McKeesport doesn’t turn the ball over like they did the first game (2 turnovers in first 2 possessions and in the blink of an eye it was 14-0) this should be a very close game, I’m still picking Gateway to get back to the final.

    4A – #1 TJ vs. #3 Belle Vernon – conference rivals played 2nd game of season won by TJ 34-7, although score was tied 7-7 at half. This is Belle Vernon’s first trip to the finals in 20yrs, while TJ is making their 5th straight appearance, this game may be a little closer than the first one but still see TJ winning by 3 scores, winner plays Erie Prep next week, who should roll over Bellefonte

    3A #1 Central Valley vs. #2 Aliquippa – rematch from 3 weeks ago won by CV 45-6, expect it to be closer but still see CV winning by 3 scores

    2A #1 Washington vs. #5 Brentwood – Wash High has been #1 all year, they have a huge weight advantage (75 lbs+) on both lines and expect them to wear Brentwood down

    #2 Avonworth vs. #14 Riverside – can Cinderella Riverside keep it going after upsetting #3 Burgettstown and #6 McGuffey last week, I think Avonworth has too many athletes and will win

    1A # Clairton vs. #3 Sto-Rox – first game at Heinz tomorrow, the question is will Sto-Rox score, as Clairton has outscored their first 2 playoff opponents 80-0, I like Clairton to win and meet defending state champ Farrell in 2 weeks in the Western Final.

  730. D3 Mike says:

    Oops, BC is on the road tonight. Same result. Milton Hershey is underrated and should give Bishop McDevitt (Harrisburg) a good game in the final if both make it thru tonight in 4A.

  731. Chief Red Raider says:

    Just curious — how comparable is Garnet Valley’s run game to CBW? I heard C’ville struggled early on trying to figure out CBW. CV has played GV the last 2 years so they should have some grip on what to expect, but CV does not have a big line (IMO). Should be an interesting game tonight.

  732. Mcd65 says:

    I am hoping McD gives Dunmore a good game .Kevin,you probably know that McD gets cherry picked of some of their best underclass players for the last few years by bigger name schools ie Neuman Gorretti and this past year Jon Luke Peaker 1000 yd rusher at Northeast. It doesn’t appear if this continues McD will ever be capable of a real state threat in AA. Southern Columbia will murder any challengers this year anyway. Lonnie Rice is a very good player on both sides of the ball.

  733. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, it’s a mix of playing bad programs and playing smaller schools. It’s a shame with all of the quality 4A teams in D2 this year that these were the 4As they played:

    West Scranton (4A) 1-9
    Wallenpaupack (5A) 3-7
    Wilkes Barre (6A) 7-5
    North Pocono (4A) 5-6
    Hazelton (6A) 2-8
    Abington (4A) 3-8
    Williamsport (6A) 3-8
    Wyoming Valley West (5A) 3-8
    Scranton (6A) 6-5

    Delaware Valley actually does have a decent program, though. Not sure how many state playoff games they’ve won all-time (if any) but they lost by a TD to State College in 2017 and a TD to Parkland in 2012 so hopefully it will be competitive again this weekend. But just comparing that schedule to the brutal one that State College played this year in the Mid Penn and yeah, you’re probably right.

    Some D3 picks for this weekend:

    6A: Harrisburg over Central Dauphin – Lost amidst Clockgate was the fact that Harrisburg turned the ball over 6 times in the first game. I can’t see that happening again.
    5A: Warwick over Cocalico – Better of the 2 matchups in 5A and Cocalico IS the #1 seed… but Warwick remains the best team in the eastern half of the state bracket and wins a shootout.
    4A: Milton Hershey over Berks Catholic – BC has made 6 straight district title appearances but the run ends on their home field tomorrow. Just don’t have enough weapons this year.
    3A: Middletown over Wyomissing – Wyomissing is more polished, especially on offense. But they’ve also been outscored 138-26 by Middletown the past 3 years vs. Middletown AND the champ is the champ until someone takes the belt away. Also, I picked Middletown in August so I can’t flip-flop now.

  734. District 3 Commish says:

    LL League

    The LL League is catering to the small schools and will have 4 sections with 6 teams each starting next year. That means Warwick is going to section 2 with MC and Cocalico who will both regress next year. Warwick will win that section easily.

    Section 1 will be Wilson and Township and not much else. Hempfield is improving but not enough to challenge. The LL should be careful with this new arrangement as they are putting the big schools in a scheduling challenge. With the new set-up there are 5 league games and one mandated crossover game with Section 2. The 6A teams are struggling to find week 4 games as most other teams are in their league schedule by then. If Wilson goes somewhere else the LL Section 1 becomes the York League.

    How is this for a juicy league – D West, D East, Coatesville, Spring-Ford, Perk Valley, Wilson, Mifflin & MT

  735. JC says:

    @Kevin X: Outside of Del Val, 6A/5A in D2 was really weak this year. Wilkes-Barre Area, the new team that was formed, was probably the second-best 6A/5A team in the district and they lost by over three scores to both Dallas and Berwick. If Del Val had played one of Dallas, Berwick, or Valley View, I’m not sure they win. State College should have no problem winning big.

    It is good to see DV scheduling D1 teams in their non-conference, wish certain conferences and teams would follow their lead. *cough* EPC *cough*

  736. D1 Lifer says:

    Chesmont Catholic practices and plays home games at PJP. It’s a combination of a handful of local Parrish’s with the majority of kids on the team currently enrolled in local Catholic schools, ( mostly SF school district) with a few kids who attend Springford, Owen J and Perk Valley middle schools. These are the same kids who turn around and play basketball etc for the CYO programs in their area as well. Of the 16 or so 8th graders currently on the CMC team I’d be shocked if at least 12 don’t move on to PJP next year. I can’t speak to kids that transfer in to the HS as they get older, but there is a nice “feeder” program PJP.

  737. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d & NO

    Can one of you guys, or anyone, explain to me how Del Val gets shut out in week 0/1 to a two win Pennridge team and then runs the table, probably averaging 50 or so points a game?? Was half the team still on summer break?? Yeah, I believe SC is going to have a field day with them Friday night.

    Don’t let that 6-6 McDevitt record fool you. They played two very good non league opponents and a decent PCL blue league schedule. QB/Athlete and U of Buffalo bound (where did I see that before??) Lonnie Rice can carry that team on his back (Mmmm, that sounds familiar too).

  738. Mike says:

    What CYO are near PJP because idk any of them?

  739. mark d says:

    @ Kevin x Valley View has a chance i think it be a closer game than last time but, Dallas is to strong up front and will ware them down and pull it out in the 4 quarter 35-21 .No i don’t see Prep staying with Wyoming area i think it be more of less the same as the first game 35-14 .As for the rest of D2 Dunmore should put up a fight think it be a good game Lacakwanna trail see moving on Delaware Valley to beat up to play with State Collage

  740. LL LEAGUE 21 says:


    It should have been 21 zip at half MT with the number of plays they had with the ball. Ivey has been a RB his whole career and he could easily have gotten behind Floyd- 44 and run the ball. Screens to him were open too but the game plan seemed to be 44,44, and more 44 with a pass a quarter to Ivey. A shame, this team would be fun versus H-Burg! As for the future, qb prospects are decent but all eyes will be on Ivey so next season isn’t going to be so easy. Line play is a concern too but while MT will still do well in section play I don’t see long trips to the post season coming. LOL, maybe SJP will recruit Ivey, I haven’t heard about transfers at all.

  741. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I literally laughed out loud at your “3 yards and a cloud of ground up tire” comment.

    @ Kevin X

    RE Dallas/VV: I didn’t go to Dallas/Crestwood, but I heard that the closer than expected score was really more Dallas pacing themselves more than anything else. My prediction is that Dallas easily handles Valley View.

    RE Scranton Prep/Wyoming Area: I agree that Scranton Prep is a totally different (better) team than the first time these two teams played, but I think WA is still too much. I did attend the Prep/WW game last week. It would have been a much uglier blowout by Prep, but they kept shooting themselves in the foot with turnovers. I think I saw 2 lost fumbles on 2 different drives (and by 2 different runners no less) within the WW 10 yd line. I think I remember that WA had a ton of takeaways in the first matchup with Prep, and I think turnovers will decide this rematch.

  742. District 3 Commish says:

    LL League 21

    I was at the CD – MT game also and agree with you on the utilization of Ivey. They need to figure out ways to get him the ball other then Kirk throwing it 50 yards down field. Screens, jet sweeps etc…. Next year he will see more double coverage and see a lot of pooch kicks on Special Teams.

    The defensive side for MT ended up the same as the playoff game last year, meaning CD was just more physical and wore MT down. CD actually has more guys playing both ways so I struggle understanding how that happens.

    I saw quite a few Freshmen games this year for LL and Berks teams, including MT against Hempfield and Wilson. MT lost a close game to Hempfield and was completely dominated by Wilson.

    With Kirk graduating, I am not sure that MT has a QB coming thru the system that will be able to get the ball down field to Ivey. Vega, the JV QB is more of a runner. Does anyone know more about their younger players? Do they have a QB coming up? Is there a transfer coming?

    Harrisburg over CD
    Warwick over Cocalico
    Cedar Cliff over Exeter
    Wyomissing over Middletown

  743. Jay says:


    No!!!! Let’s go Coatesville! Ville vs West rematch then revenge on Harrisburg and then a huge win over SJP to cap the dream season. Kennett goes on to win 5A too. Oh and Bishop Shanahan over ECP in 4A. A chesmont sweep. LOL one can dream right?

  744. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    Kudos for you and anyone else who ventured out to a game this past Friday. I waited 24 hrs. to catch a game. Good decision on my part. Streaming a game, following tweets, and score board watching was my Friday night.

    So, does Valley View have a chance Friday against Dallas to repeat as D2 4A Champs??. Surprised the Dallas/Crestwood score was a little closer than I thought it would be. Then again, maybe it’s the case of the score not telling the whole story.

    Also, can Scranton Prep turn the tables against Wyoming Area in their rematch?? Thinking Prep is a young team who have been maturing and getting better with each week. Probably a different team from the team that played them back on Labor Day weekend.

  745. Irish1 says:

    Coach D,, you might want to get your facts straight. First of all just because its a catholic school does not mean they have to be in the PCL. Many surburban catholic schools were long time members of the PIAA. Archbishop Kennedy,St Pius X , Lansdale Catholic prior to its move to PCL to name a few. These schools did very well over the years drawing their enrollments mainly from the areas that surrounded their schools. i get a kick out of how people didnt seem to have a problem with PJP when they were dropping 50 plus points on them a few years back. Those players that transferred actually went to grade schoools within the general PJP drawing area,but for whatever reason and with open enrollment decided to go elsewhere for high school. They had a change of heart and decided to come over to PJP which is their right. PJP is nothing like the District 12 schools as far as recruiting goes. Just the same
    old tired public school argument that doesnt apply here. Most of the schools that have a problem with PJP had 2 or 3 times PJP’s enrollment

  746. Foleman says:

    Coach D, I guess you missed the part where 3 of the kids that transferred in were from a PJP feeder school and 4/5 transferred in from CATHOLIC SCHOOLS. The lone Public School transfer- TE Walker transferred in from a school that passes the football on average a whopping 4 times a game and won 2 games this year over 0-11 teams. Let’s see, should Walker have stayed at Boone-A perennial dormat or play in one of the most dynamic offenses in the area? The area Public Schools are full of CYO athletes yet you complain about Catholic school kids transferring in? Do you know where PJP and Shanahan are geographically located? I’m sure PJP would love to travel into the City down 422 and the Schuykill Expwy every day during rush hour to play schools in the PCL. PJP won had 4 1 win seasons and didn’t win a game another year and the one year they do well the PUB CRY BABIES come out of the Woodwork.

  747. Mike says:

    @ Jay according to the D1 bracket the championship game will be Friday, and as far as that “nagging feeling” you have …. I hope it’s right!

  748. MIchael says:

    I can see Garnet Valley has a live webcast for the Coatesville game. Does anyone know if the DTW/Haverford game will be streamed? Thanks.

  749. Coach D says:

    @IRISH1 do you mean the old fashion way of transferring in handful of players? PJP is a Philadelphia Catholic School who along with Bishop Shanahan should be playing in PCL. Yes most of their players have went thru the program since the 9th grade but they had to transfer in players to finally win a district championship…Egan did the same thing last 2 years and prior to that Del Val Charter before closing. Neuman goretti transferred in ton last year with Del Val charter closing and few Imhotep and Roman Catholic kids coming over. District 12 treats offseason like NFL free agency. Hopefully this New transfer rule and competitive formula taking affect will stop most of these teams from transferring in after freshmen year.


  750. LL LEAGUE 21 says:

    Township talk, you have a point but your facts are mostly wrong. MT only has 1 div 1 player Ivey. The rest are FCs or d2. CD has played twic a year and knows what will work and the adjustments made at half were stellar. You are right if you are saying mt doesn’t play its best in the post season. I too blame Evans for that as Ivey scored or set up four scores in like 6 touches. That is rediculous. Then again Benjamin and others didn’t get the ball either. Defense didn’t get to adjust because CD qb had time to throw. Mt got too conservative in the fourth and didn’t force throws at all. Sad to say MT while a great group of kids weren’t given the best plan to use.

  751. Jay says:

    Sorry for blowing up the forum with consecutive posts, but I want to throw a little love toward 4A and 5A Ches-Mont as well.

    Congrats to Bishop Shanahan on their run so far, playing the Downingtowns in the regular season definitely prepared them for a playoff push. Hope they can win a couple more.

    And also congrats to Kennett, WC Rustin, and WC East on very good seasons. Rustin and Kennett are still going strong, and I’ve really been on the Kennett Bandwagon. I mean I haven’t gone to a game, but I’ve been rooting from afar. A win over Cheltenham will be huge, and how about a Rustin rematch in the 5A D1 final?!

    I’m not a cable TV guy, so I don’t have the PCN network, so in order to watch the State championships, I’ve got my NFHS subscription up and running for the next couple months. Did the same thing last year and after PA ball ended, I watched a lot of state playoffs in Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, and other random states. Except the Texas state finals aren’t on there – Fox sports has a lockdown on that.

    Rant over.

  752. Jay says:

    Does anyone know if the 6A District One Final will be next Friday or Saturday? I assume Friday, it was on a Friday last year right?

    It was the 6A eastern final that was played on Saturday IIRC, since the 6A state title game is the final Saturday game in Hershey.

    I’m just trying to figure out my viewing schedule because unfortunately during the weekends I work overnight 11-7 shifts, which makes day games tough to attend if I have any intention of sleeping. Guess I’ll have to figure that out because I have NO intention on missing this years East Final, because regardless of the matchup, it’s going to be a great one. I’m hoping for Coatesville vs Harrisburg again but I have this nagging feeling that won’t go away that it’s going to be Garnet Valley out of D1.

  753. Jay says:

    Here we go again with a difficult decision between games to choose from. As much as I’m dying to see West vs Haverford, C’Ville vs Garnet Valley round three is probably the game I’m most excited to see since the 2017 East Final against SJP. (Ahhh, so close).

    Though this game has revenge written all over it, and tbh it does worry me a bit, Coatesville is finding ways to win right now and they seem difficult to figure out… like they are holding on tight to what they’ve built the last few years and saying to their opponents “come and get it, but you’re gonna have to really work for it, and for four quarters”.

    Is Garnet Valley the team that can answer that call? They were SO close two years ago and thoroughly outclassed last season. Is the third time the charm?

  754. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Kevin X, Haverford vs. C’ville would be great, but I think both teams are going to have a tough game this week. As a Coatesville guy I’m more concerned about GV than Haverford — I don’t think one standout player is going to beat Coatesville — but C’ville is still hard to figure even this late in the season so who knows if it gets to that point. I’m glad C’ville is looking more to run the ball with Bryant — leave the game in the hands of your playmakers!

  755. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X – Yeah, Uggla got hurt against Coatesville but finished the game (broken clavicle). It didn’t hurt against an outgunned PV team but certainly didn’t help against the Fords. As you mentioned, DTW much more diverse on offense so should provide for an entertaining game.

  756. D3 Mike says:

    Everything from your name to throwing shots right after a team lost screams “sportsmanship”. Why don’t you put your big girl panties on and approach this like an adult?

    MT lost in double overtime to a great program that also has plenty of D1 talent on it. They won 11 games and a league title which is a successful season. And they can’t control what the papers say.

    As it stands, most of the teams you named have a 10% winning percentage once they get outside of the district and are state powers only in their parochial (there’s that word again) fans’ minds. Which team is yours?

  757. Township Talk says:

    Where have all the Manheim Township people gone? I have looked online in the Manheim Times (AKA Lancaster Online) and all I can find is a short recap from Friday night. No follow-up article, no quotes from the self promoting, prophetic, former Miami Hurricane himself. No more adjectives describing the team as legendary, historic, greatest ever. No more mentions of a guaranteed trip to the State Finals.

    For the last three years this team has had the best talent in the District outside of Harrisburg. They won 6A title in 2017 only because Harrisburg played 5A that year. The next two years they don’t even make the District Final.

    Going back to 2014 they have had three talented QB’s – Benjamin to Bloomsburg, Emge to Harvard and now Kirk to Colgate. This year they have at least 4 D1 players on the team.

    You can’t go around telling everyone how great you are and not prove it with results. It’s time for the Coach and others to stop talking and toughen up in playoff games. Friday night they had a 14 point lead in the second half and choked it away. Sorry, but if you want to compare your D Coordinator to John Nash then you better get it done.

    Manheim Township…….. You are not CD, CV, Wilson, Harrisburg or McDevitt. Stop self promoting and start working.

    SWAT This!!!!!!!!!

  758. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    What I understand, these past two wins by Haverford were their first and only two wins ever in district play.

    I’m more looking forward to a potential Haverford/Coatesville finals match-up. That would be very intriguing. Old guard vs. the new kids on the block.

  759. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    ……more like surreal. Scary thing to me was, that he made it look so easy, effortless. Like you said (and me embellishing), a man among little boys. To be fair, I think DTE was without Spencer Uggla on both sides of the ball, which was a big hit to them, and it showed in their running game. Like Jay said below, I didn’t get either the constant running up the middle and long passes. You have the fastest kid on the field with Stanley Bryant, take a play or two out of the Coatesville playbook and throw some screens and short passes, or some sweeps, get he kid in the open and on the outside where his speed and agility would kill. Oh well. Different animal coming up with DTW, their offense is much better and diverse than DTE. Their “D” tho could be an issue, so like I alluded to before, scoreboard could be lit up.

    Sounds like the injury was/is a nagging, reaggravated hip pointer. So expect he should be good to go on Friday.

    Looking very much forward to a return trip to Kottmeyer on Friday night.

    Yes, he would look good in Temple cherry and white!!!

  760. mark d says:

    @kevin x well i was wrong attended the Valley View Berwick game and the place was empty.Very sparse crowd,to bad they missed a good game it was an old fashion 3 yards and a cloud of ground up tire lol Berwick made a few more mistakes and that was the game but both teams lined up and said here we come stop us very very physical game.It was my understanding that Dunmore and Mid valley had a nice crowd and well as Scranton prep and Western Wayne

  761. Mike says:

    @ Buddy.
    GV played in the D1 championship game in ‘16 vs NP and in ‘17 vs Coatesville, lost to Coatesville in the semifinals last year. GV beat Haverford earlier this year.

  762. NW PA says:

    A few thoughts about this weeks games and looking ahead. In 6A I was disappointed that McDowell didn’t give State College a better game but their play makers have been banged up the last few weeks. State College should win this week setting up a showdown with the WPIAL champs, but I’m not sure they get past whoever it is. In 5A, Oil City squeaked by a very weak Hollidaysburgh team but they should get smoked by Southern Lehigh. In 4A, Erie Cathedral had no problem with USO/Obama and now they get Bellefonte. I’ve heard Bellefonte is pretty decent and that they are starting to hit their stride but I suspect Cathedral will be too much for them to handle. I’m gonna wait and see how that game goes before I comment on a possible showdown with a vert talented TJ the week after. In 3A, Sharon beat an undefeated Harborcreek which I had predicted. Harborcreek is another team that plays a weak schedule so I’m not surprised. Grove City looked good against Hickory so I’m not sure who wins when the play but I will say this, Sharon always seems to rise to the occasion in the playoffs so I’ll take them in a close one. In 2A Wilmington cruised and I suspect they will have no problem against Chestnut Ridge this week. In 1A, I was correct in predicting Maplewood would loose to Farrell. Maplewood hung with them until the 4th, but like I said, Farrell has too many athletes. Farrell should have no problem this week against Tussey Mountain who I don’t know much about.

    @Colonial Fan: After watching the Oil City film I feel like you get where I’ve been coming from. They really struggled against a weak Hollidaysburgh. You guys should have no problem with them. I would say you guys should win handily, may even a mercy rule. Good luck!

  763. Buddy says:

    Agree. Love to see H-ford & GV in the D1 final. Tired of the same ol same ol, unless, of course, it involves my team ( NP).

    GV was there 3 years ago ( against NP), Don’t ever remember H-ford even close to the D1 final.

    Sounds like H-ford could and will make the final. Doubtful for GV though. Maybe not.

    There was no undefeated team this year. I think that’s good for the playoff system.

  764. Uncle T says:

    Kevin X- Isn’t he unreal? Being a Delco guy, he’s the best player to come out of this county since Dan Connor of Strath Haven in the early 2000’s. Bernard Pierce from Glen Mills was amazing too in mid to late part of the 00’s, but Blair impacts the game everywhere at this point of the season. Check out his Hudl highlights from last week against Spring Ford- it’s one of the best examples I’ve ever seen of a man against boys, almost unfair. I’d find it hard to believe that some bigger college programs aren’t trying to sway him away from his Buffalo commitment.

    Haverford has a solid 2nd running back and a very good defense, but Blair makes everybody on their team about 5 times better. I heard that he wasn’t hurt too bad and could have gone back in if they needed, but they were wisely being extra cautious with their thoroughbred. DTown West has a serious challenge next week stopping him and how he has that team going, and a lot of people around here will be rooting for an all-Central League district final to boost what has been a down-decade for the county after Ridley and Strath Haven have become shadows of what they once were.

  765. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    I thought it was you who mentioned Mr. Blair in prior posts. i took last night off, but couldn’t sit out two days in a row, so headed down to Kottmeyer this evening. Holy freaking smokes!!! I’ll think about it, but Trey Blair in only one half of football, probably the best player, game changer, individual performance, I’ve seen live since D’Andre Swift. Unfortunately for Haverford, he is it. He did not play in the second half except for their first drive, guessing hip or thigh injury, and don’t think Haverford had more that a handful of yards, and no first downs (D did their thing tho, all their really needed at that point). Well see his status for Friday night. Guessing will be fine. If at or near 100%, DTW could be in trouble. Will be a shoot-out at the OK Kottmeyer corral. If not playing, Haverford will be rolled.

  766. ColonialFan says:

    @Jeff H
    What a night…thank you!! Spent the morning watching Oil City film from their game last night, and yes…I like our chances as well. Went to the Wood game this afternoon and was thoroughly unimpressed, despite the score. Was 0-0 after first quarter. Yes, 37-0 at half but majority of points were given to them by 1-9 Archbishop Ryan. Certainly not the Wood teams of years past. Could be an interesting couple of weeks!

  767. Jay says:

    Around 7:20, I snuck a glance at the D. East score and thought “ehh, I’ll just watch the rest of Bama-LSU and stay warm”. But no. I decided not to be a BIG FAT WUSS and got bundled up and got down to Kottmeyer… to a 35-6 Haverford lead.

    The second half has been much more competitive, but wow these Haverford kids can play! Matta needs to stop trying to run the ball up the gut – it’s not working! The long passes aren’t either. Ahh well.

    Love the crowd right now. Got my Coatesville peeps representing, the Garnet Valley preppies making an appearance, happy packs of Whippets Roaming around, and various other contingencies from around the district. It’s great. And the Haverford crowd is very animated. Sort of like Cinderella.

    Will Haverford come here again next week and take it to West? I have no idea. But if they do, and GV beats the Ville (which if I’m being honest I am worried about), then Haverford will have a rematch with the last team to (barely) beat them – and with everything on the line this time.

    I’d like to see Haverford at Coatesville in two weeks. One can hope.

  768. Uncle T says:

    Also, Haverford is an absolute threat with Trey Blair. He could start for SJP.

  769. Uncle T says:

    SJP is humiliating LaSalle. My goodness. Good luck to rest of 6A this year.

  770. Jeff H says:

    @Colonia; Fan – congrats to your son and Southern Lehigh on their fist district title, up next is Oil City, who seems to have perfected winning playoff games by a 9-7 score having done it 2 weeks in a row. I really like your chances against them as was discussed this week, looming after that is Archbishop Wood in the quarterfinals, and then the WPIAL champs.

    I went to see Peters Township demolish Moon last night and avenge their only loss of the season in a dominating 33-7 win. As many have pointed out on this board the rankings on this site, PennLive and other sites seem to defy logic at times, I said several weeks ago it was a joke that PennLive dropped Peters out of the top 10 when they lost to a good Moon team, and I was certain they were still a top 10 team in 5A. Last night they played like a team that can go a long way in the playoffs, maybe all the way to Hershey. Peters and Penn Trafford are playing the best in 5A in the WPIAL coming down the stretch, they will meet next week in the semi-finals in a rematch of a playoff game last year won by Peters 38-35 on a field goal as time expired. I expect this game to be just as close, although would be surprised if that many points are scored. Both teams are very similar, big, strong quick offensive/defensive lines, very good defense, good running attack with multiple backs and the ability to throw the ball, winner of this game will be the favorite in the WPIAL finals against the McKeesport/Gateway winner, as McKeesport knocked off defending champ Penn Hills and Gateway got a very late TD to come back and beat Bethel Park 17-13.

    @Jut- you may get your wish, but Wyomising first needs to beat 3 time defending district champ and state runner-up Middletown next week. I do like Montoursville’s chances to get to the Eastern Final and play the winner of that game, although PJPII may have something to say about that. I think there are 3-4 teams that a have a legitimate chance to get to Hershey on the eastern side of the bracket, in the west I don’t think anyone will come close to beating Central Valley.

  771. New2PA says:

    Buddy: Yes, PCC won 31-14 over Lebo. They play Pine-Richland who beat NA 49-14, in the 6A championship.

  772. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I braved the cold and watched the Wilson game, Dahms didn’t learn his lesson about man to man coverage against stud receivers-(see Manheim Townships Ivey), Kent and Crew were open all day in the 1st half, 2nd half, Dahms went to a 6 dback scheme and what did Harrisburg do? They ran the ball down Wilson’s throat, moving their defensive end to tailback. Hburg’s QB has a gun and was better than I expected. Frey’s drop was a tough one for Wilson on the final drive and everybody and their brother knew that they were going to Lockhart on the last play of the game, poor kid had 3 guys on him. Throwback jet sweep and running up the gut with 26 seconds left and no timeouts was a head scratcher too. Both teams played like Champions. So much for a Wilson/MT rematch.

    Neuman Goretti will be back, no one can recruit like Albie, it will be interesting to see with Roman Catholic upping their game and NG having a coach who can attract stud players what affect this will have on Imhotep.

  773. Buddy says:

    @ kevin:

    That the first time, that I remember, NPTV ever live streamed an away game.

    They had to get permission from Downingtown and the PIAA. Frankly, don’t know how they got it.

    From what I heard, PIAA wants a wheelbarrow full of $ to broadcast a playoff game.

    Maybe because this is a high school program, as opposed to a public radio station.

    Just guessing here. Anyway, my season is over. But 2 years from now NP will be the team to beat.

    Count on it.

  774. Jut says:

    Why shouldn’t Montoursville be ahead of Wyomming in the Top 5 easternPa? Only lost is to SCA which any of your District 3 AAA schools would lose to too. They have a great team this year. You maybe right about district 3 schools in Aaa not losing to district 4 Aaa but your district gets byes in states playoff which means you play less games so ofc you can’t lose. So don’t say that. District 4 used to be a powerhouse with southern which still is, Mount Carmel and when Berwick used to be in District 4 years all going to the state championship. Wyomissing is a great team not saying anything against them. Hey I hope montoursvile and wyo play each other in states would be fun to watch.

  775. Jeff H says:

    @Foleman – yep, so much for NG. I think whoever wins the Eastern bracket is going to be at least a 2 TD underdog to Central Valley in the final, they beat a very solid Derry team last night 42-7 after racing to a 42-0 lead at half. Whoever comes out of the east better have a great secondary because if they don’t CV will torch them with some long passes, lots of speed and great athletes. I think CV will handle Aliquippa again next week at Heinz Field, then they get a bye and will likely meet Sharon in the west final and expect them to win that game fairly easily. I said on here after CV manhandled Aliquippa the last week of the regular season that they were the favorite to win 3A, I don’t think there’s a 3A team in the state that can match their speed and athleticism, time will tell, but in my opinion CV is a big favorite to win 3A.

  776. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, thanks for the NP/DTW stream info. I’m familiar with NPTV and their YT channel, but thinking it was an away game that they would not broadcast the game. Didn’t see any info on their website, Twitter, or YT channel that it would broadcasted. Checked at 7p, and there it was!!!!

    So, you guys spent a lot of time and effort on the merits of Wilson being the #1 seed vs MT. Guess that played out with a loud thud!!! Seeds, home field, number of D1 players…..all overrated in my book. The best team, or the best team this time of year, will eventually come out on top (barring really bad officiating, which is rarely the case).

    @ Foleman
    I believe we were the only ones mentioning PJPII during the season, and seeing them having a good chance to make a run. I thought them blowing that huge lead week 0/1 against RC would come back to bite them, and it kind of did, with them having to travel down to South Philly versus hosting the game (where ever that might have been). I don’t think N-G was overrated, and their schedule was ok (some decent PCL blue teams), but they were never really tested. Look for them to be a force next year tho.

  777. D3 Mike says:

    First time seeing Harrisburg this year. A few elite athletes and beef on the line but honestly that’s not the most sophisticated offensive system I’ve seen. I also thought Wilson moved the ball at will. Wilson owned the line of scrimmage and Lockhart ran thru tackles like it was his job… but the turnovers, drops (the screen to Frey? earlier in the final drive was also a TD) and broken coverages in the first half just killed them. That final run play burned way too much clock (and a down, IIRC?) but what I really question is why they played so much man coverage? So many what ifs from that one. Was an amazing game that deserved more than the 2/3 filled stadium it played to because of the frigid weather.

    Congrats to Harrisburg – should be a great final in D3-6A. And Warwick escapes past the #1 in the EPA poll to set-up a match up with a rolling Cocalico in the 5A semi-final.

  778. Buddy says:

    Obviously, this is the Chesmont league’s year. DTW has too much offense for NP.

    NP’s fumble in the 1st Quarter in their own zone might have been the game breaker.

    DTW goes up 14 to 3 at that point. That fumble Jay refers to below was a bit strange.

    I assume the refs hadn’t blown the whistle yet. Didn’t matter anyway. Wasn’t a game changer.

    Did PCC out west win? Don’t see that update.

  779. Jay says:

    Not that it matters now, but does anyone else think that the “lost fumble” and subsequent 30 yard penalty on Downingtown West midway through the third quarter was the absolute worst call of the year, and possibly many years?

    Dtown player fumbles the ball, and clearly falls on it. One of his teammates falls on it with him. Possession. On the ground. Dead ball. But wait! Then north penn players jump on top. There’s a scrum… North Penn ball! Oh and here’s TWO 15 yard penalties too.

    That referee crew should not be allowed to do another game this year, and honestly the PIAA should consider a longer suspension.

    That was the worst call I’ve ever seen in my life. And I’ve seen some bad calls.

  780. Uncle T says:

    Chief- I watched the Garnet Valley game as well and had the opposite reaction as you about that fake punt. If they don’t convert that, they could have given PW great field position and a chance to gain momentum. Instead, it put the game away for good and GV made all their substitutions on the next few downs. I took it as going for the jugular instead of any kind of running up the score.

    Anyway, it should be an interesting one next week, back at the scene of the classic ’17 final. ‘Ville is obviously the favorite, and will have the best 2 players on the field, but it’s been the Young brothers who have crushed Garnet Valley the past 2 years. If you remember that ’17 game, GV can be dangerously methodic (boring, if you will) when they don’t turn the ball over- they crippled themselves last year with turnovers, especially the pick 6 (not taking anything away from ‘Ville’s defensive scheming). This year’s Garnet Valley team is also the fastest of the past 3.

    I doubt Matt Ortega and crew would let it happen, but I think there’s a risk of Coatesville being a little overconfident given their history with GV and looking past this week towards a looming rematch with one of the Downingtowns (though it wouldn’t shock me if Haverford beats East tomorrow. Trey Blair of Haverford is a special player).

  781. Jay says:

    My initial thought about Garnet Valley is that it’s gonna be a tough match, but aside from a one-point win about a month ago, they really haven’t been tested aside from their early loss to D West.

    But the way Coatesville came out in the second half tonight gave me a tremendous amount of confidence in them going forward. They played excellent football and CBW had no answers.

    I think East wins tomorrow night, but does not beat West. West vs CV for the D1 chip – it’s what most people have been waiting for, right? With all due respect to the East folks.

    Question – since the eastern final was played out west last year, will it be played around here this year? (Dtown- CV area) anyone know how that works?

  782. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville and H-burg are still in it. Maybe a rematch of last year and that sloppy game week 1? Would be great to see DTE/DTW rematch — I think DTE will beat them — maybe:) Any thoughts on 3rd year in a row of Coatesville playing Garnet Valley? Would really like to see C’ville win again after I just watched GV do a fake punt up 21 points in the 4th (I’m thinking C’ville would of had their 2nd team in). Yeah, I know it’s the playoffs.

  783. Foleman says:

    Jeff H, you can put Pope John Paul as your darkhorse as they beat Neuman Goretti 29-28. I thought that PJP was under rated and NG over rated as NG played no one this year. Most folks out in District 3 think that Wyo will beat Middletown this year, we will find out next week at the A field. 6A semi’s in District 3 was as good as it gets in HS football. MT/CD rematch went into OT with CD winning and Wilson/Hburgh went down to the final play with Wilson at the Hburg 5 yard line a sure TD dropped by a Wilson player.

  784. Eric W/D3 says:

    Wilson down 33-29 @ HB 5 with no time on clock after a penalty in end zone. QB hits their best player RB/LB Lockhart right in the hands to win the game. He was wide open..drops the ball. Tough, tough loss for WWL. Wow!

  785. Mike A says:

    Great night for the Mid Penn Commonwealth
    Harrisburg beats #1 seed Wilson 33-29
    Central Dauphin beats undefeated and #2 seed Manheim Township 35-34 in 2 OT’s
    State College opens up a 35-7 lead and beats Erie McDowell by 3 TD’s 42-21

  786. Eric W/D3 says:

    Wilson on the H burg 5 with one second left down 33-29. There best player/rb Lockhart wide open, drops ball, right in his hands. Unbelievable. What a game. Tough loss for WWL

  787. Irish1 says:

    PJP 29 NG 28

  788. Irish1 says:

    PJP 29 NG 28……congrats to the Panthers, program built the old fashioned way defeats all star team.

  789. Buddy says:

    NP/DTW live on NPTVyoutube on Chrome.

  790. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – Wyomissing is #1 at PennLive only because both Central Valley and Middletown have 1 loss, albeit to a 4A team, and CV’s loss of course was to TJ, who I think in 2 weeks is going to give Erie Prep a heck of a game, should be in the Pittsburgh area this year and if so I will be there. I still think the 3A final will be CV vs. the winner of the Wyomissing/Middletown game, although Neuman Goretti is the dark-horse on the Eastern side of the bracket.

    @Colonial Fan – good luck tonight, always nice to see teams make a playoff run that haven’t been there before.

    @Kevin X – I’m not certain how the co-ops work with regard to enrollment, my understanding is both schools totals count but I’m not positive about that, perhaps there is some formula they use, there are some smaller schools in the WPIAL in Greene County that are considering going to a co-op arrangement due to small numbers of kids playing and if they do that I’m sure the local Pittsburgh media will explain how it works.

  791. Jay says:

    @ Kevin X

    I was going to go to Downingtown because I saw the CB West/Coatesville game listed on my NFHS app, but I checked today and the game is no longer listed, so it looks like I’m headed to Doylestown. Maybe.

    I really wanted to watch both games though. And even though I’m a Coatesville supporter, I’m more interested in the NP/Dtown game.

    Not sure but I better figure it out soon.

  792. Kevin X says:

    Old school radio stream of the North Penn @ Downingtown West game (7p) this evening…….


  793. Tornado Pride says:

    @ Kevin X


    WKMC is MCA’s own student operated TV station who have been around since 1968. They have been broadcasting games locally for many years and started doing the games live on YouTube since last year. They are broadcasting the game vs Troy tomorrow night and if they win, would likely do a District championship rematch against Southern next week. They do a fantastic job.


  794. Tornado Pride says:


    I wasn’t saying the Wilk kid was a Shamokin kid, I just know the dad was a standout football player/athlete at Shamokin in the early 90’s who at some point moved to Elysburg. My point was not to say the kid transferred to Southern for football, but to echo Racer X’s point that the migration of all these Shamokin and Mt. Carmel families is a key ingredient to Southern’s success. SCA is already unstoppable this year, so its hard to imagine them being that much better with another D1 kid on the team. I just assumed him transferring to Berwick had something to do with the fact that the dad played under Sheptock at Wilkes.

  795. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X – North Penn has a YouTube channel “NPTV” so they may be streaming the game on there.

  796. mark d says:

    @Kevin x Valley View and Berwick will be packed no matter the weather both community’s support thier teams well .Delaware Valley dont think many people from Wilkes Barra will be traveling that far.Dunmore and Mid Valley will draw a nice crowd MidValley up set Dunmore early in the season So they will be turning out to see if they can do it again pulse the towns border each other Western Wayne will have a crowd winning is new to them so the community is really behind the team the rest becuse the first meeting were so lopsided i doubt you get any attendance.Not like it was in the old day i remember the first Valley View Berwick game it drew over 10,000 people to crispin field and it was a cold December day

  797. D3 Mike says:

    Wyomissing has been to the state playoffs 4 times so it’s not exactly the largest of sample sizes. They won 3 of their district titles back when not every district winner made state playoffs. But yes, they are 3-0 vs. District 4, including two wins over Montoursville in the last decade or so. To be fair, Wyomissing didn’t win the district any of the years that the Mount Carmel or Southern Columbia teams would have drilled them (they played Mount Carmel in the early 2000s regular season, obviously non-league). And Berks Catholic has played Montoursville and Southern Columbia to mixed success so it’s not like District 4 doesn’t produce quality teams in those smaller classes.

    Frankly, most of the high school rankings aren’t great. It’s criminal that Warwick isn’t listed on EPA. Wyomissing probably should be #1 or #2 in the EPA behind no one but Middletown… but they also have no business being #1 on PennLive considering what county has been producing all of the state champs in that class, recently. Win some, lose some.

  798. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, late question, but does anybody have any links or other info to “free” video streaming links to any of tonight’s games?? Websites, Facebook, YouTube, misc. apps (Roku), etc.???

    The only one that I am aware of is possibly the Garnet/P-W game via the Garnet Valley Football YouTube channel.


  799. d3fan says:

    Montoursville ranked above Wyo in EPA poll ? C’mon – that’s not right. I can see Middletown – Wyo’s gotta beat them to climb that mountain – but Montoursville? When has Wyo lost to a D4 team in playoffs ? – maybe MCA back in the 80’s .

  800. ColonialFan says:

    @ Jeff H and NW PA

    Thank you for your detailed responses, appreciate the info. My son plays for Southern Lehigh so just looking down the road a bit. Gotta take care of business tonight first as we try to win the schools first district title in football.

  801. Brian says:

    Hey tornado fan. Wilk isn’t a shamokin kid. His mom graduated from southern in the early 90s with my brother and I graduated with his moms young we sister in the late 90s. Their family lived on market street in Elysburg so wilks mom was a southern raised. He left southern after his freshmen year because he wasn’t going to start at safety. As a freshmen he started because a junior was hurt and out for the entire season. That player came back his senior year and wilk transferred out.

  802. Kevin X says:

    OK guys, that decision time again, assuming I talk myself off the warm and comfy couch tomorrow and brave the cold, do I stay somewhat local and hit up the Coatesville/CB West game, or trek it down to Downingtown to see North Penn take on D-Town West, and maybe track down Buddy and buy him a hot chocolate 🙂

    Any of you C’Ville folk heading up to Doylestown tomorrow?? You guys do travel well.

  803. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA think your post was meant for Jeff H…… 🙂

    Since I got you western guys attention, as you were talking about Oil City, I took gandered rat the PIAA website, and their enrollment figs are actually within 3A. But they have 2 co-ops. That whole ECP and playing up to avid them is so out of whack. As far as co-ops go, you guys, or anybody knows how they figure into classification figures?? Do they combine the male enrollment for each school?? Does it depend on how many kids from the co-op school participates with the team??

    @ mark d

    Yikes, some not so exciting contests it seems upstate this weekend sans the Berwick/VV re-match. Between the weather and match-ups, anybody gonna be at these games??

  804. NW PA says:

    @KevinX: I’m rooting for Maplewood hard but unfortunately I don’t think they will win. Farrell has too much team speed. Farrell’s defensive backs are far better than anything Maplewood has come across and it looks like as a team Farrell is starting to hit it’s stride.

    @Colonial Fan: I think Jeff H pretty well summed up Oil City. No disrespect to their kids but in 5A they aren’t a top 25 team in the state. Their schedule consists of 3A teams and a few teams that play up to 5A to avoid Erie Cathedral. Warren (6-4) and General McLean (3-7) are both 4A but play up much like Oil City does. Meadville is the only true 5A team in this part of the state and they beat them twice in very close games. Beyond that they beat Conneut Area (3A 4-5), Franklin (3A 2-8), Girard (3A 4-6), Dubois (4A 0-10), Fort Lebouf (4A 5-6), and Slippery Rock (3A 4-6). Their schedule is pretty weak and I predict they will be exposed once they play an decent 5A team which will probably happen next Friday. If I were to guess they would be about the 12th seed in the WPIAL in 5A. They could beat Hollidaysburgh only because they are way down this year and have only beaten weak teams.

  805. Tornado Fan says:

    @Racer X

    Hard to believe but SCA had another Shamokin transplant Wilk who left after his freshman year for Berwick. He is now a 3x All Stater heading to ECU.

  806. District 3 Commish says:

    BTW…… 2012 is about to happen again

  807. Buddy says:

    @ Maher:

    I hope you’re right. I seen DTE play but I know nothing of Haverford.

    Rooting for Haverford though. NP would then pull a home game IF they can get by DYW ( doubtful).

    @ Jones:

    Sam Brown is out for LaSalle! That’s a bigger deal then Trotter being out for SJP, IMO.

  808. District 3 Commish says:

    This is the District 3 Champions by Seed from 1983 thru 2017. Keep in mind that over the years classifications increased from 3 to 4 to 6…… but the point is the 1 or 2 seed wins about 80% of the time.

    Not sure what year it switched to the power ranking system.

    6A CHAMPIONS BY SEED – only 2 years
    No. 1 seeds: 0 No. 2 seeds: 2
    No. 3 seeds: 0 No. 4 seeds: 0
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 0 No. 8 seeds: 0

    5A CHAMPIONS BY SEED – only 2 years
    No. 1 seeds: 0 No. 2 seeds: 1
    No. 3 seeds: 0 No. 4 seeds: 0
    No. 5 seeds: 1 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 0 No. 8 seeds: 0
    5 Seed winner was Harrisburg (Micah Parson mid-year transfer)

    No. 1 seeds: 15 No. 2 seeds: 7
    No. 3 seeds: 3 No. 4 seeds: 4
    No. 5 seeds: 1 No. 6 seeds: 2
    No. 7 seeds: 1 No. 8 seeds: 0
    No. 9 seeds: 0 No. 10 seeds: 0
    No. 11 seeds: 0 No. 12 seeds: 0
    No. 13 seeds: 0 No. 14 seeds: 0
    No. 15 seeds: 0 No. 16 seeds: 0

    No. 1 seeds: 24 No. 2 seeds: 5
    No. 3 seeds: 4 No. 4 seeds: 1
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 1 No. 8 seeds: 1
    No. 9 seeds: 0 No. 10 seeds: 0
    No. 11 seeds: 0 No. 12 seeds: 0
    No. 13 seeds: 0 No. 14 seeds: 0
    No. 15 seeds: 0 No. 16 seeds: 0

    No. 1 seeds: 17 No. 2 seeds: 10
    No. 3 seeds: 5 No. 4 seeds: 3
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 1
    No. 7 seeds

  809. Jeff H says:

    @ Colonial Fan – NW PA can give you more insight that I can, but Oil City is a 4A team playing up to avoid Erie Cathedral Prep, decent team but they haven’t played anybody of note, I would not be surprised if Hollidaysburg beats them this week, if they do get by Hollidaysburg expect them to lose next week to the Southern Lehigh/East Stroudsburg South winner. I know PennLive has them ranked #5 in the state, but I personally doubt they are in the top 20 in 5A, and probably every 5A team left in the WPIAL quarterfinals is better than them, no disrespect meant towards Oil City, they’ve had a magical season, but they are a small fish in the big pond of 5A.

  810. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X From what I’ve read and heard, what the Joneses says is correct. It wasn’t a simple break and he needed care at both the Rothman and CHOP. The prognosis is good with no long-term problems expected, but he almost certainly won’t be able to return even if the Prep has a game in December. It’s a significant loss for SJP, obviously.

  811. Jeff H says:

    For those that have an interest here’s my WPIAL outlook this weekend, I’ll stick to the top 4 classes since most guys on this board don’t follow the lower classes

    #4 Mt Lebanon vs. #1 Central Catholic – rematch of 2 weeks ago won by PCC 45-7, this game may be a little closer and I’m sure Bob Palko will have a few tricks up his sleeve, but PCC’s dominating DLine is way too much for Lebo to handle, I’ll say PCC 38-14

    #3 North Allegheny vs. #2 Pine Richland – another rematch from 2 weeks ago won by PR 42-14, think this game will be a lot closer but still like PR by 2 TD’s 35-21

    5A quarterfinals
    #1 Penn Trafford vs. #9 Upper St Clair – they played 2 years ago in this same round at West Mifflin, game tomorrow is at the exact same site, PT won that game 35-14, and I think this game will have a very similar outcome, in fact I’ll predict the same score 35-14. PT got key 2-way star Sam Fanelli back last week from a knee injury after being out for 6 weeks and he made an impact at LB, which bodes well for their chances to finally get over the hump and win a district title

    #2 Gateway vs. #7 Bethel Park – this game is a contrast in styles very similar to CB West vs. Coatesville, if Bethel can use their power run game and go on long drives and keep Gateway’s offense off the field they have a chance to make things interesting, think it will be close for awhile but Gateway has too many play-makers and too much team speed and will win 34-20

    #3 Penn Hills vs. #6 McKeesport – I thought a few weeks ago McKeesport had a good chance to pull an upset, but based on how they’ve played the last couple of games that seems pretty unlikely, I’ll take Penn Hills 27-14

    #4 Moon vs. #5 Peters Township – should be the best game of the bunch, Moon surprised a lot of people including myself by winning the regular season game 21-13, Peters has been rolling since that loss and expect them to win the rematch, I’ll go with Peters 28-20

    4A semi-finals

    #1 TJ vs. #4 Blackhawk – won’t be close, TJ in a rout and could be a mercy rule game, I’ll say 42-7

    #2 South Fayette vs. #2 Belle Vernon – anticipate a pretty competitive game but like South Fayette 31-20, setting up a rematch of last year’s WPIAL title game won by SF

    3A Semi-finals

    #1 Central Valley vs. #4 Derry – CV should roll, too many play-makers and team speed for Derry to keep up, CV 41-13

    #2 Aliquippa vs. #6 South Park – the Quips beat them 29-0 in the regular season and will handle them again, if they win Quips would make their 12th straight appearance at Heinz Field in the WPIAL finals which is an amazing streak

  812. Racer X says:

    Nice article on SCA football, but it failed to mention, in my opinion, the number one reason the program is what it is, the best in the state, and that is the influx of talented families/kids to Elysburg from mostly the Shamokin and Mount Carmel areas. Nothing against Roth and his staff, they are definitely the best around, but without those families moving into to Elysburg over the past 20 years they’d have little to work with. Not meant to be a put down or complaint but objectively looking at it all, this is absolutely why this football team is the best in the state right now,

  813. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X- I think Trotter is lost for the season. I think LaSalle may have lost stud Sam Brown as well. Either way they both put up 45+ points last week. I wonder if either eclipses 30pts on Saturday.

  814. Jeff H says:

    @NW PA – I was wondering if you thought Maplewood had a shot against Farrell, I am anticipating a Farrell vs. Clairton match-up in 3 weeks in the Western Final. I’m not so sure Oil City beats Hollidaysburg, think they are better than Meadville and Oil City struggled to beat them last week. I also think ECP is not going to have too much trouble with University Prep, might be close for a little while, but I’d be surprised if ECP doesn’t win by 3-4 TDs. McDowell vs. State College should be a very competitive game that could go either way.

    @Eric W/D3 – agree both of them should be great games, 2 of the best in the state this weekend, I also like Harrisburg, as you noted too much speed and Harrisburg is healthy, I’ve gone back and forth on MT vs. CD, I did pick MT to get to the state final, so I’ll stick with them, but think this game will go to the wire and team that has the ball last might be the winner.

  815. ColonialFan says:

    @NW PA
    Can you give me a little more info on Oil City. Undefeated, so obviously a good team, but what’s their league like? Beating up on smaller schools, quality wins against other 5A’s or 6A’s?

  816. JC says:

    Some good games in D11 this week too:

    6A – Nazareth-Easton is likely a big win for Nazareth, Easton has been really shaky against the top tier of the EPC. Freedom-Parkland will be a great game, Freedom won by 3 last time, but Parkland is on a roll, I pick them to get revenge.
    5A – Southern Lehigh and Eastburg South have been on a collision course all season. This could wind up being a shootout, but ultimately I think Solehi scores more.
    4A – Two great games. Northwestern-Central Catholic and Pottsville-Bethlehem Catholic games are both toss-ups. I pick Northwestern and Becahi to pull it out but it could easily go the other way.
    3A – Another great game. North Schuylkill has rallied around Leiby, but Tamaqua is hungry. Ultimately I side with the pedigree of the Spartans.
    1A – Williams Valley blew out Tri-Valley earlier this year, I expect more of the same.

  817. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    What’s the story/issue with Trotter?? Out for a few games, the rest of the season??

  818. mark d says:

    Up in D2 Del Valley over Wilkes Barre by 3 touchdowns in AAAAAA in AAAA Bewick at Valley View good game calling it a toss up Creastwood at Dallas mercy rule game AAA Western Wayne at Scranton Prep Prep by 2 touchdowns a month ago i would have picked Western Wayne but Prep has up it game AAA Lake Lehman at Wyoming area mercy rule game AA Mid-valley at Dunmore mercy rule game and in A Lackawanna trail and morrisville dont know anything about morrisville to comment

  819. William Maher says:

    Buddy thinks DTE beats Haverford easily. I don’t think so! Haverford is a very good team. That’s the best matchup of this weekend coming up.

  820. NW PA says:

    Predictions from the northwestern part of the state-6A: If McDowell has Blue and Lopez they should win a close game, if they don’t I’m not sure. Both players have been beat up since the loss to Cathedral. 5A: Oil City probably beats Hollidaysburg because Hollidaysburg is down and has no quality wins. 4A: Cathedral should win against USO Prep. The weather is supposed to be cold in Pittsburgh Friday so maybe it will be a game for a half. 3A: I like Sharon to beat Harborcreek in a close game and Hickory over Grove City also in another close one. 2A: Wilmington over Greenville, they should have no problem they already rolled them. 1A: Farrell over Maplewood even though I’m rooting for the Tigers.

  821. Eric W/D3 says:

    Should be two slobberknockers on Friday. WWL has 40 D3 playoff wins and 7 D3 titles. Plus are 12-4 @ home (in post season) under current coach… but I think too much speed and monster OL makes the difference for HBurg. HB, 30-20. Coin flip between CD and MT, but on a hunch will say CD 21-20. Four great teams!!

  822. Mike A says:

    @Jay There is a 2019 western forum but nobody posts or their posts are never moderated and displayed!

  823. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – District 3 could go to a selection committee like the WPIAL does, or place a lot more emphasis on head to head, As D3 Mike and JC have pointed out, and I have previously as well, any point system that ranks a team that is 9-1 ahead of a team that is 10-0 and beat the other team on their home field by 16 points has some flaws that should be addressed. Obviously no system is perfect, and neither is the selection committee in the WPIAL, but Wilson as the #1 seed ahead of MT just doesn’t pass the eye test, and those rankings would have been reversed by the selection committee had those teams been in the WPIAL. The 5A seedings in D3 are also a mess, how Cocalico got the #1 seed is beyond my comprehension, I expect Warwick to handle them pretty easily next week, assuming they get by MC again on Friday, when the 2 best teams in the district are seeded #4 and #5 there’s something wrong with the system and adjustments should be made going forward, particularly when home field advantage is at stake. Personally I think the home field advantage will be a moot point because I have a feeling Harrisburg is going to beat Wilson on Friday, we’ll see!

  824. David Mika says:

    Jay….You are welcome to talk about teams from the west on here…

  825. Jay says:

    Hey isn’t there a forum for western football site anymore? I remember a few years ago it didn’t get much traffic but last year it did. Did it get discontinued? Any way to bring it back??

  826. FrankG says:

    @Uncle T. Of course Northeast would have a chance against SJP. Many of us who’ve been around SJP for a while vividly recall the 2006 PCL Championship when the Prep lost a bizarre game to LaSalle, a game they went into as a 4-5 touchdown favorite. Chris Whitney made a second effort to score but lost the ball as he was about to cross the goal line; LaSalle returned it for a 99-yard TD–a 14 point difference. SJP made a couple of other turnovers deep in LaSalle territory and lost 14-7. Sometimes once a heavily favored team gets behind in a big game, stress levels go way up and they start making uncharacteristic mistakes. Then there are the effects of difficult weather conditions.. Anyone remember LaSalle-GW in the city championship game in 2008? There were strong wind gusts throughout which neutralized LaSalle’s excellent passing game that relied on very carefully timed plays. Without the gusts, LaSalle almost certainly would have won by 2-3 TDs.

    Northeast has talent; they’ve been to city championships the last few years; they would go into the game loose and will probably be playing at home; the Prep will be playing without Trotter and will be coming off a game against LaSalle (always an intense rivalry game that I’m not taking for granted as a Prep win) etc. All that said, a Northeast win over the Prep would be a huge upset-but not the greatest upset ever!

  827. Kevin X says:

    It would also be interesting if we could have dropped LaSalle and Northeast into the D1, D3, or D11 brackets to see how they would have faired without this road block of SJP.

  828. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy, etc….

    Unfotunately looks like you’re going to have to bundle up and avoid the deer heading south on Rte. 100 b/c the streaming from chesmontfootball/3CTV is done fo the year.

    From their website:

    It’s been a great bringing you high school football every Friday night with our Game Day Live program.

    But because of a lack of business sponsorship, we are unable to bring you any of the remaining PIAA District One playoff game.

    – The Ches-Mont Football/3CTV Crew

  829. JC says:

    Not necessarily a D12 guy, but it would be interesting to see how far Northeast could get if a miracle happens and they were the D12 champ. There’s a lot of talent on that team, and they’d have more than a fighting chance against the D11 champ. SJP being as good as they are is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does rob the 6A bracket of a lot of intrigue they would otherwise have. The PPL may have a ton of terrible teams in it, but the top division is always solid, and you have to be a dang good team to win it.

    Anyway, to your question Uncle, I think they have the ability to trade some blows early on. But if they’re overconfident they will get their doors blown off. Time will tell.

  830. Uncle T says:

    per last post- Obviously not PCL, but D12

  831. Uncle T says:

    PCL guys: what do you make of Northeast this year? They have some decent early season wins, including an impressive blanking of Haverford School, and the slim win over a down Imhotep, but their schedule other than that (and the loss to a good Episcopal team) is cream puff city. I’ve read some pretty positive reports on their squad this year but haven’t seen them at all. Do you think they have enough to at least put a first half scare into SJP in 2 weeks?

  832. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X There is a credible rumor that some teams in PA did not make the playoffs. For such teams having their seasons end on October 25th would seem likely to dampen any expectations they have for next year. I’m not arguing for including even more teams in the playoffs but for having a longer regular season and for including fewer teams in the playoffs. Qualifying for the playoffs should be more of an accomplishment.

  833. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Wait, are you saying that there were teams that actually didn’t make the playoffs???

  834. FrankG says:

    Anyone else find it quite sad that the teams that didn’t make the playoffs had their season end five or six days before the World Series ended and that half the rest of the teams had to hang up their cleats by November 2nd? I loved having a Thanksgiving game to look forward to. We can’t go all the way back, but modifications could be made.

  835. Kevin X says:

    @D3 Mike

    Those numbers / %’s are disturbing, yet not totally unexpected. Hopefully, we got rid of the dead wood and teams that had no business playing in a playoff game last weekend and improve those numbers for this upcoming weekend’s slate of games.

  836. Buddy says:

    @ Kevin:

    Downingtown from where I live is a bit of a haul ( Bally )

    Plus it’s gonna be cold as hell ( can’t handle that like I used to).

    But if it’s not live streamed, I simply have to go.

  837. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Possible NP/DTW will be on 3CTV/Chesmontfootball.com

    If so, yes it would/should it be on YT via the chesmontfootball channel.

    With that said, who know if there will even be a game streamed this week by them, guess depends like last week, if they get/have the funds. Either that or their request during the Week 10 game was just ploy for more funds. Also they may opt to broadcast the Rustin/WCE game, the Shanahan game since it is for a District title, or maybe even wait until Saturday for the DTE/Haverford game (IMO, the best game of the 4 D1 6A match-ups).

    Check back later in the week on their website for updates (or I’ll toss something up here if I see something as well).

    No road trip for you on Friday????

  838. D3 Mike says:

    lol oh, I’m OK guys. As I said, I’ve grown accustomed to the parochialism and bias. It’s fine to be a fan but have some self awareness when talking about your team and other area programs. This is par for the course, though: me attempting to contribute something those outside of the area might not know; the JV team responding with school fight songs and personal attacks. That said, what our commish was grasping for was that I need a blue pill, not that I need a “purple pill” for my other shortcomings. At least get your memes straight!

    Of note from this weekend – here’s a breakdown of first round games decided by two or fewer TDs:

    6A: 16%
    5A: 19%
    4A: 9%!!
    3A: 21%
    2A: 52%
    1A: 35%

    Sort of surprised how competitive the small-school classes were so far. We’ll see how well the trend holds up. 4A on the other hand…

  839. Buddy says:

    @ chief:

    C’ville has to contain the run. Then they win.

    CBW passing game is poor ( at least against NP it was).

    I see C’ville winning this. DTE should win easily.

    NP pass defense is their weakest link. Shore that up and they might have a chance against DTW.

    Again, I assume the NP/DTW game will be live streamed on 3CTV?

    I get that on the youtube? Not the most computer literate person here.

  840. LL LEAGUE 21 says:

    Manheim Twp. coach is Mark Evans and he played tackle at U of Miami during their championship years. He has been around a long time with some success at other schools. This group of seniors have been together and won everything since 3rd grade so they bring it weekly. They have blazing speed in Ivey and a few tall wideouts that can grab it over you. The running game is sneaky good and the line smart and athletic. CD was able to manage this offense without Ivey but it will be much more difficult this week. Then again CD has improve a great deal too so I think this will be TWP’s most difficult battle in districts. Sorry Wilson fans but your blitz packages wont work so well this time as Twp. is seeing that every game now. The thing is MT defense is tough and they are aggressive at the right times. D coordinator has won state championships with another school and he knows what he is doing.

  841. sausmann9 says:

    oops, double post. please delete either of the two. tx.

  842. sausmann9 says:


    pretty cool article on SCA

    also hearing good things about Jayden Lieby’s recovery (stable but critical). seems a reporter in the LV area is keeping up to date with his progress. Thoughts and prayers to you #6 – stay strong and keep your faith! You have an entire state of football loving brothers that got your back and have your prayers!!!!!!!

  843. Buddy says:

    @ anyone:

    Does anyone know if the NP/DTW game is live stream? If so, where?

    I’m chomping at the bit here!

  844. Foleman says:

    I don’t know what District 3 can use that would be better than the current system. Any suggestions? More emphasis on head to head? Wilson got a huge boost by beating an extremely over rated Spring Ford-Pope John Paul-A class 3A school gave them everything they could handle before getting worn down in the 4th quarter and they just got mercy ruled in the opening round of District 1 6A playoffs. In addition, Manheim Central got blown out by Wilson and Warwick and has their weakest team in years. Wilson’s out of conference schedule was more difficult than Manheim Township’s but going undefeated and beating Wilson at home and not getting the #1 seed doesn’t seem logical.

  845. sausmann9 says:

    pretty cool article on SCA out of Lehigh Valley Morning Call


    Also the Lehigh Valley has been giviing updates on Jaden Leiby out of North Schuylkil and for as terrible as an injury he sustained, they keep reporting that he is getting better (still in critical cond but stable cond). thoughts and prayers go out to this young man and his family.

    To the Leiby’s; stay strong and keep your faith!

  846. phillyboy says:

    JC, also, who cares about the local rankings, just win your dog gone games and everything will work itself out. Look at LaSalle, they usually get bounced in the second round every year due to the nature of the structure of the tournament. Just win your games.

  847. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hang in there D3 Mike. Hey everybody, let’s talk about something less tedious — like SC again 🙂

    On a serious note: Any comments on my Red Raiders vs. CB West? (I can’t even find any CBW games on video). Not sure if comparing a common opponent like Souderton means anything — but I hope it does. Don’t sleep on DTE or NP.

  848. JC says:

    The way some of you are coming at D3 Mike is ludicrous. Nothing in his posts has come across to me as “biased”, “insecure”, or “myopic”. It does not take a genius to see that Wilson being ranked above Manheim Township is out of sorts. Pointing out that fact also does not mean that that’s the only thing wrong with the system, or that there’s some sort of “shot” being taken at a school.

    This board has a serious problem with people dishing out trash talk, but once someone comes at you, they lose all sense of a logical argument and start whining about bias. News flash, that just makes you look less credible than you were before. If just making a point makes you feel like someone is taking a “shot” at you, then take a step back and look at yourself as to why you’re so insecure about teenagers playing a game.

  849. Jiminey Cricket says:

    @D3 Mike,

    Just to be clear I have no faded varsity Football Jacket from Wilson. However I have been watching football not just around the district but around the country and find your pedestrian and biased views of D3 significant. Should you like to discuss football in a tangible and meaningful way that draws on more than just your myopic truth please ask to meet and I will advise you where we sit for the Wilson games while I stream multiple games from around the country on my iPads. Good luck with your recruiting efforts.

  850. District 3 Commish says:

    D3 Mike you are as biased and insecure as they come. Tell the whole story on D3 rankings this year

    5A – Cocalico is the one seed and has two losses with one coming to MC who is the 4 seed. Warwick killed MC, is 8-2 and is the 5 seed and must go to MC to play them. Shippensburg is undefeated and is the 3 seed. Justify all that you Twit!

    6A – Red Lion and Chambersburg were both 6-4 and beat Chambersburg, but they finished 9th directly behing them and missed the playoffs

    If you want to take a shot at a school be prepared and tell the whole story. They make purple pills for your other shortcomings!

  851. D3 Mike says:

    Sir Cricket, you’ll have to forgive me for tapping out after this post. I don’t want to bore the forum further by endlessly retreading the same ground of D3 football politics and Berks County parochialism that I’m sure most could care less about.

    You’re welcome to think that a) being a fan and b) noting that your team benefitted from a broken formula is a binary choice. It’s still a free country. You’re welcome to think that the system D3 has had in place since all of 2010, that it tweaked in 2011, and that it tweaked again in 2016 “has been consistent for many years”. Webster’s would disagree with your definitions of “consistent” and “many”, but whatever. Again, free country. You’re welcome to reduce a view I share with the vast majority of unbiased football fans to “an opinion”, just as my contention that the moon-landing actually took place is “an opinion”. You’re welcome to think that Wilson being hurt by this same system, previously, has anything to do with whether the formula should be modified or not. That’s another false binary choice (BTW, Wilson has never been hurt by this system’s math, ever. D3 posts all brackets back to 2010 so it’s easy to refute that abject rationalization with a modicum of effort). Finally, you’re welcome to think a 20-13 playoff game is “not in doubt”. Think whatever you like, and people can decide for themselves whether your views have merit or if you’re just another alum whose faded varsity jacket has started to restrict blood flow. As it stands, I guess my high school football “credentials” are a basic familiarity with Google, a car that will take me further than West Lawn, and finely honed critical thinking skills (see above)?

    P.S. I won’t be at the BC game next weekend. I drew the booster club short straw so it’s my turn to hit the recruiting trail and work on next year’s crop of talent!

    Phillyboy, Thanks. MT probably has the most balanced team in the district and because of their playmakers, they would have a puncher’s chance against Prep. But they are realistically 3-4 TDs behind, so it would take them winning the turnover battle by 2+, plus a lot of other breaks just to keep it close. Their wideouts are very good – tall, fast, athletic – and their QB is heading to Colgate. I believe they also have a youngish head coach who was a WR in the CFL so I’d have to think with that offensive scheme and their talent level they’d be able to move the ball. To be fair, I haven’t seen Prep play on TV since Trotter got hurt and I’m not sure how well their current back-7 matches up against non-Florida-Football-Factory level offenses? You tell me. My guess is that it would probably be similar to the Harrisburg game last year, at best. That said, and as I said at the start of the playoffs, MT is 50/50 to even get out of the district and they’d only be slight favorites against the D1 winner. It’s sort of a shame because if you were to take Prep out of the equation there would be 10 teams with a legitimate shot to win a state title this year (I’d even throw LaSalle in there!). D1, D3, D11, WPIAL… just a lot of parity across PA in 6A.

  852. phillyboy says:

    @D3 Mike– Not to put you on the spot, man, but your writing is fantastic. I also take pride in being able to express myself well (as I huff on my finger nails and subsequently buff them on my chest) but phillyboy is a mere amateur masquerading as a big shot, whereas D3 Mike is the real deal, er, a professional. Like a D1 player on an otherwise mediocre high school football team, it’s noticeable. Now that I puffed you up, let me get your thoughts on something. Been hearing good things about this Manheim Township team. Seems that they’re the leading candidate to be the sacrificial lamb for Saint Joe’s Prep in the state final (although I wouldn’t be surprised one iota if Coatesville makes some noise, having a latent anger, a stoic sense of postponed justice). What do you think though, does MT have the goods to pull off an upset rivaling the 1980 USA ice hockey team over the Soviet Union, Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson, or Chaminade over Virginia?

  853. Jiminey Cricket says:

    D3 Mike, so you live in Wilson SD and say “I don’t know where you get I don’t like Wilson…but only fans of Wilson think they earned the #1 seed” which is it, fan or dislike, pick one. Regardless of your opinion, the District 3 math has been consistent for many years and some times it has cut for and against Wilson, this year the math favored them, other years it hasn’t and the title game has been neutral field. Personally I’d prefer the championship game at a neutral site, but that’s not it the cards so it’s time to move on. The best team should win regardless of where the game is played. So if the fan base is so parochial perhaps you can dazzle us all with your credentials. Finally last night’s game was really not in doubt 56 seconds into the 3rd quarter when wilson scored their 20th unanswered point. This week brings a new challenge in Harrisburg, they need to go 1-0 this week to advance, good luck to every team playing this week for success and for the players to stay healthy and without any major injuries!

  854. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X & BucksCountty Fullback – you guys beat me to the punch, I was going to respond to NW PA that it’s far from certain that ECP would have won the last 3 5A titles. With that being said ECP vs. Wood in 16/17 would have been tremendous games, I would make AW a one score favorite but ECP was loaded too, would have been a heavyweight slugfest in the old 4 class setup. That’s one of the many downsides to 6 classes, we get blowouts in 4A and 5A in 16/17 when in 4 classes would have had classic match-ups. But at least a few more teams get a trophy or a runner-up plaque thanks to the PIAA.

    @d3 MIke – i agree with you about D3 6A this year, the qualify and depth of top end teams is second to none, definitely better than the WPIAL, D11 and IMO D1 as well. Tremendous match-ups this weekend, both games could go either way, MT better get this last game out of their system or CD is going to take it to them next week, think at least one and maybe both of the road teams win.

  855. D3 Mike says:

    Also, I have no idea where you’d get that I don’t like Wilson. I live in Wilson, go to all of the home games (well, not McCaskey). I’m on the Mike Drago chat “each week” (meaning the past 2 weeks) telling Mike and the rest of the parochial fans in Berks that it is absolute lunacy that Wilson has the #1 seed over Manheim Township – because it IS lunacy to everyone but supporters of the team and the sports reporter who wants to keep selling them newspapers. That doesn’t mean I don’t like Wilson. I simply think it’s Wilson who should be playing Central Dauphin this week and that the district final should be at Manheim. BTW, how many people will mention on this week’s chat that Wilson deserved the 1-seed because they beat “league undefeated” Spring Ford and MT didn’t?…

  856. D3 Mike says:

    Sweet Jesus, it was tight into the 3rd quarter, not into the 4th quarter. Again, I tried to cover an entire district in one post. 3rd quarter, not 4th quarter. Millersburg not Millersville. Probably some other errors in those 6 paragraphs, too. My point was simply to convey that the game was more competitive than the 41-13 final score, not to knock Wilson, who as you noted controlled the line of scrimmage (as they have all season). But what I watched was two teams head to the locker room tied, and I can’t remember the last time I could say that about a 1-seed in a first-round game. It was a commentary on the strength of the district this year, not a slight directed at Wilson.

  857. Eric W says:

    How could you say the WWL/Chambersburg game was a tight one into the 4th? Chambersburg didn’t score a pt. after the 1st Q and Wilson scored 41. C burg RB had a 54 yd td on the 4th play of the first drive and was 14-30 after that. Plus WWL had 370 yds rushing. CB did absolutly niothing after the first two drives? I’m confused at what you were watching. WWL OL/DL dominated

  858. Mike A says:

    Manheim Township has the ability to move the ball up and down the field very quickly. They have 3-4 nice receivers, several good backs and a QB who is accurate and on time with his passes most of the time. Their ‘O’ line gave him ample time to survey the field until someone broke open. CV was able to buckle down several times and hold them, sometimes with the aid of a penalty. Also, the CV defense picked off two Kirk passes stalling Manheim Township drives. Manheim Township turned to ball over several times on fumbles (a muffed punt and a crunching hit of the punt return man as he caught the ball) inside their own 30 and CV was able to punch it in against their defense. CV scored 26 points on a defense that had only given up 55 points in 10 games although they were aided by shorter field on several of those occasions. Manheim Township has a very good and diversified offense and a stout defense. CV’s runs came mostly inside as the Township defense swarmed any wide running plays. CV gave them trouble on several types of misdirection pass plays and a few slant passes. The difference in the game was the pass blocking. CV’s QB was constantly under pressure. Manheim Township probably had at least 5-6 sacks and many hurries. On the other hand Kirk was able to stay in the pocket or move from side to side with little to no pressure on most pass attempts . Good game by both teams. All in all Township is a very solid team very capable of making a run at the state finals but they need to tighten up their ball security if they are going to win D3 and move on.The second round rematch with Central Dauphin should be a good one. Manheim Township won the first one 10-7. Central Dauphin has improved since the early season losses and has a lot of play makers also. I would expect a few more points the second time around.

  859. Jiminey Cricket says:

    D3 Mike. Fully realize that you don’t particularly like Wilson after watching your posts in Mike Drago’s chat each week, but I have a hard time believing you were at the Wilson game last night since Wilson scored 41 unanswered points after midway through the second quarter and held the Chambersburg offense to about 100total yards after those first 13 points scored. The game was never in question after the 2nd of 4 TDs scores in the 3rd quarter. Enjoy your BC game today and good luck!

  860. Kevin X says:

    Let me stand corrected before some of you guys take me behind the woodshed………

    “ECP, nor anyone else in PA regardless of classification, other than SJP (which they did twice) or the Pine Richland 2017 team, would have beaten those 2016 and 2017 Archbishop Wood teams.” 🙂

  861. D3 Mike says:

    Great night for football! As expected, a lot of close games but not a lot of upsets in D3. I was at Wilson v Chambersburg, which despite the final score, was a tight one into the 4th (and 13-13 at halftime). Wilson plays Harrisburg next Friday in what should be a great contrast of styles game and revenge for the Wilson seniors after an ugly district semifinal loss last year. We’ll see if Wilson has the speed and height in the secondary to keep up – which was really their problem vs Manheim Township earlier this year.

    Speaking of, MT struggled against Cumberland Valley’s wing-T offense – which no one runs in 5A and 6A anymore. (Side note: I honestly think Central Dauphin added Berks Catholic (who also runs that offense) non-league last year partly to to defend against the offense once before playing their rival, CV). Anyways, we’ll see if MT got it out of their system before taking on a red hot Central Dauphin squad next week. The two did play a 10-7 game in September but MT controlled the action more than the score suggests. That was also before sophomore (Penn State offer) WR Ivey came back from injury to give MT their best deep threat.

    Anyone who tells you they know what’s going to happen in those 6A semi-finals is lying. Could go either way. All 4 are good enough to lose to Prep. Any of the 4 could be done with football next Friday.

    In 5A, #8 seed Mifflin rolled into what could be the upset special in D3 next weekend as they get a rematch with a #1 Cocalico squad they played close in September. Also in 5A it will be #5 Warwick and #4 Manheim Central in what most consider the 5A final, two weeks too early.

    Small surprise was Steel High getting knocked out. They were the favorites for many in 2A… until the district ruled their star RB transfer from Middletown ineligible on Tuesday. Why they wait until right before the playoffs to rule on these cases is beyond me. I guess to spare themselves from having to rule on kids who won’t even be in the playoffs? But it sure makes planning hard for the coaches. Delone also historically plays Steel High well so congrats to them on the win.

    Finally, Millersville, in their final season of football, wins the D3-1A championship. With a 3-8 record lol. But seriously, good for those kids to send the program out on a high note. They will be merging with 11-0, 2A Upper Dauphin, who will hopefully provide some competition to Wyo, Middletown & Lancaster Catholic in 3A next year. Not sure how many 1A and 2As D3 will even have left for next cycle.

  862. Buddy says:

    I don’t see the CBW/C’ville game that close. One thing that might prove me wrong is that it’s at CBW.

    Not surprised by the Haverford but I am surprised on how big.

    NP/DTW! What can I say!? I have no idea on that one.

    BTW, 3CTV live streams 3 teams. C’ville and the two D-Towns.

    If someone finds out if they are covering the NP/DTW game please let me know.

  863. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA

    ECP, nor anyone else in PA regardless of classification, other than SJP (which they did twice), would have beaten those 2016 and 2017 Archbishop Wood teams.

  864. Kevin X says:

    This probably would have had a little more credence if I posted this yesterday or earlier the week, but still going toss out there a long range prediction of the D1/D3 6A State semi-final match-up as being Round 4, the 4th meeting in the past 2 seasons, of Coatesville and Harrisburg. Yeah kind of boring, same old same old, but we’ll see as the weekends unfold.

  865. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    Funny, I was watching that DTE/C’Ville replay, and in the back of my head remember that mention of the Bryant personal foul, so I was keeping a close eye out for it. Then the push out of bounds play happened, saw a flag fly in the background, and thought, yeah, you gotta to be kidding. But I understand being at a game, sometimes you either don’t have the best view, the refs look (or are) clueless in their decision making, or the PA announcer his asleep at the wheel, as doesn’t properly fill in the crowd of what is going on. So kudos fo you for clarifying the situation on your end.

    Speaking of getting your wish, me as well!!! Power outage in the greater Central Bucks area yesterday, assuming from the weather the night before, knocked out power at CB West and the game was postponed to tonight at CBWest @7p, providing power is restored. If not by 2p, the game will be moved to Pennridge HS tonight at 7p. Not wishing people to be without power, especially on cold morning, but love for them to move the game to Pennridge. Either way, I have another game tonight!!! Heard the NP/CBSouth game was in jeopardy as well due to no power, but they got their power back and game went on as scheduled. Guessing CB South wished the power was out for just a little longer.

  866. BuckscountyFB says:


    There was no 5A 4 years ago and cathedral prep was not beating the Wood teams of 2016 and 2017.

    Will be interesting what Wood does next cycle as they are a 4A playing up to 5A. If we go back to 4 classifications not sure they would still be a 3A, but probably are.

  867. Chief Red Raider says:

    Mike A: Good for Cumberland Valley — my gut was telling me they could pull an upset. How do you assess MT? Folks on this site have them taking on SJP in the final, but I’m doubtful of that — I think a D3 team will knock them out first.

    Anyone have a prediction on the DTW/NP game? I’m thinking NP has a great chance, especially after the way Pennsbury ran the ball on DTW in the first half. With that said, however, DTW can turn it on pretty fast. I’m guessing C’ville will play CBW — any thoughts on that? Souderton beat CBW — that bodes well for C’ville — they scored 49 points on Souderton in a little over 8 minutes in Q2 and sat their starters the 2nd half (While DTW was scoring another TD late with starters in — just sayin’:))

  868. Jay says:

    Well, got my wish and was able to head down Lincoln highway to Kottmeyer Stadium for the second half which started all knotted up at 28. D West brought their A-game and won by four TDs.

    Coatesville started off slow and trailed 7-0 after the first quarter, but came alive in grand fashion and led 49-7 at the half. Someone verify this… I left a couple minutes before the half and they were up 42-7 and Dapree Bryant had just pulled in an interception. Pretty sure their seventh score was before half.

    Really pulling for Ridley tomorrow, but assuming CB West wins, next Friday is gonna be the toughest choice of the year between traveling to CBW to see Coatesville vs driving ten minutes to see D West vs North Penn. Probably will end up streaming one and going to the other. West in a very close tough game.

    Also good call to whoever below picked Haverford.

  869. New2PA says:

    I think if McCord, Harrison, and Trotter left SJP, P-R might think about staying 6A. And thinking ahead to 5A next year, will the WPIAL semifinals and finals be harder games than playing NA and PCC like they had to do in 17 and maybe this year in 6A. Doubtful.

    You can’t always trust comparison scores, but P-R mercy ruled 5A Moon who beat Peters by 2 TDS. Peters is one of three favorites to win WPIAL 5A. Unless 5A has 6 or 7 great teams Next year, P-R’s first two playoff games should be halftime mercy rule games.

  870. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley nearly pulls the upset

    Leading 26-24 with a little over 3 minutes left CV had undefeated Manheim Township on the ropes. CV had just moved into Manheim territory and was 6 yards from a first down and coming close to running out the clock with a 2nd and 6 when Manheim called the first of it remaining three time outs. On the next play an off tackle run resulted in a bobble and ultimately a fumble that Manheim recovered. With new life Manheim moves down the field converting some nice passes and scores the winning TD with 1:07 left. Congrats to both teams on a great game!

    Manheim Township 32
    Cumberland Valley 26


  871. Buddy says:

    How the heck did they ( NP ) lose to them (CBS) 2 weeks ago?!? Maybe CBS was missing some of their top guns tonight, I don’t know.

    NP didn’t improve that much in 2 weeks. Then again it is playoff ( knight) time.As of this typing, not sure of the DTW/ Pennsbury match.

    Assuming it’s DTW, there’s a helluva match ( NP/DTW) brewing for next week !

  872. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    After watching the replay of that game, I saw that it was a sideline warning. A lot of people in the crowd near me didn’t even know what the call was. And judging by Dapree Bryant’s reaction to the flag, it seemed like a personal foul call. But I now see that I was mistaken. I still think the pass interference call was iffy though!

    Souderton out to a decent start against Coatesville so far, up a score. I was hoping for a blowout so I could pull the Lincoln Double and catch the second half of the Dtown West game.

  873. Kevin X says:

    Hey Chief, unfortunately I can’t help on the Soudy/C’Ville stream. I was interested in the game myself from the Big Red side of things. I was expecting the game to be the 3CTV game this week, and not the DTW/Pennsbury game. I watched the replay of the C’Ville/DTE game the other night, and they were asking for local businesses to step up for sponsorships and individuals for donations, as they were saying the playoff games cost more to produce (higher fees I guess, D1??, PIAA??). Guess they got their wish, but maybe the donors/sponsors wanted the DTW game. Speaking of the C’Ville/DTE game, one of you C’Ville guys mentioned last weekend about some bad calls, and from an unbiased point of view, I cannot concur with you. That Bryant so called push out of bounds personal foul, don’t know what game you were at or watching, but that was a sideline warning against DTE. The pass interference call the play before, really could have gone either way. The DTE receiver was tripped.

  874. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H: Erie Cathedral has had really low numbers on their JV team 2 years in a row. They will always have good kids and I heard their freshmen team was good but I think you will see a rebuilding year or two while they are up in 5A. The last 4 years they probably would have won the 5A title but I don’t think that will be the case next year or even the year after that.

  875. D3 Mike says:

    That’s interesting about Pine Richland. Question: if they had lost a tight game to St. Joe’s Prep last year instead of a blowout, do you think they take a more serious look at just staying at 6A? The WPIAL 5A is already brutal. These changes make it more so. And with the brackets supposedly switching back to D3-D7 next year it’s not like the 6A winner historically has had all that much trouble with State College and the D3 winner to get to Hershey. I’m thinking just to get there a western team will have an easier path in 6A than 5A, although I guess that depends on where ECP gets placed in the 5A bracket next year. Even the WPIAL 5A semi-finals next year will be can’t-miss, though.

    Do all of the reclassifications get done simultaneously are is there a “pending” or review period? For example, do all of the D10 schools have a chance to see where ECP is going to go next cycle before deciding what class to register at?

  876. Jeff Hoener says:

    @Buddy – Ridley didn’t do so well stopping the run in the regular season against Haven and GV, and I think they are going to struggle to stop West tonight, we’ll see! You’re right about the weather, after a mild fall thus far it’s finally football weather!

  877. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I agree with your district picks, like Manheim Township to win and also beat the D1 rep and play SJP in the state final, I also think Warwick has a very good chance to get to Hershey, I’d pick them vs Gateway in the final, and I anticipate the Middletown/Wyomissing winner will end up playing Central Valley for the state title.

    On a side note there was an article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette this week that indicated Pine Richland will be 5A for the next 2 yr cycle, and with the anticipation of Erie Prep moving up from 4A that will make 5A a much stronger class for the next few years, will also make 6A in the WPIAL a lot weaker.

    @ Kevin X – I’d go with North Penn vs. CB South, I have a hunch that’s going to be a very competitive game, think West is going to handle Ridley by about 3 scores, they haven’t fared so well this year against power running teams.

  878. Chief Red Raider says:

    Question for all: Does anyone know if the C’ville/Souderton game is being streamed or on the radio? They chose to stream the DTW game on the one site that shows Coatesville.

  879. Buddy says:

    Guess yu-all know where I’ll be. If Ridley has the ability to stop the run CB West could be in trouble.

    Haven’t seen Haverford play, but seen SF. They’re big, including their RB.

    Haven’t seen Abington nor PW. Abington is usually famous for their speed.

    PV is small. They’re always small. DTE and PV have already played this year. It wasn’t all that close.

    It’s football weather that’s for damn sure!

  880. New2PA says:

    From the PGH Post-Gazette – Pine-Richland dropping to 5A and South Fayette moving up to 5A.


  881. Kevin X says:

    Ok guys, need a little input, do I hit up Ridley @ CB West or North Penn @ CB South?? Leaning the latter, b/c looking ahead, I already have circled C’Ville @ CB West for next week (hope I just didn’t jinx CB West).

  882. Uncle T says:

    Kevin X- I’m with you on Haverford, in fact I would be surprised if they don’t win that game. I’d make them a 6.5 point favorite. Their QB/athlete, Trey Blair, is as much of a game-breaker as anyone in the district.

    But I’m not seeing Perk Valley over DTE. If it were a regular season game, maybe, with East coming down off the Coatesville emotion, but the PAC has been a paper tiger in the 6A playoffs.

    I think we’re only looking at 2 or 3 competitive games games in the 1st round with CBS/NP, Abington/PW, and possibly Haverford/Spring-Ford. Wouldn’t shock me to see 3-4 score or mercy rule wins in the rest of the games this week.

  883. Jut says:

    Im not upset by byes being in district play, in my eyes there should be, if you don’t have a .500 record or above you shouldn’t be in playoffs, but to have byes in state play is nonsense, instead of having like district 4 champ play district 2 champ have them have the bye and have one of them play district 3 champ? That’s all I’m trying to say here. Just seems like it’s always district 3 getting the byes in state playoffs. Also a few years ago. First round of playoffs whole state was being played except for district 3 it was their last week of the season. That made no sense there either. I know some schools bylaws, they have to be .500 or above or they won’t participate in playoffs.

  884. JC says:

    Some games to watch in D11:

    Northampton vs. Easton (6A): The runaway EPC North champs against a slumping Easton, but the EPC South is much tougher of a division. I’m picking Easton.
    East Stroudsburg South vs. Pocono Mountain East (5A): EPC North rivals played a one-possession game earlier this season, but the game was not as close as the score indicated. ESS to win.
    Central Catholic vs. Saucon Valley (4A): All four higher seeds are favored, but the 4-5 is most likely to be close. Still picking Central Catholic by a couple scores.
    Tamaqua vs. Notre Dame Green Pond (3A): A rematch from last year, probably the best game in D11 this week and one of the best in the state. A true toss-up, I pick Tamaqua to exact revenge.

    Outside of these, the games mostly have clear favorites. It’s the playoffs though, and anything can happen. Next round could have some real barn-burners.

  885. D3 Mike says:

    Should be competitive games in D3-6A but I don’t see any upsets. Plus many of the better teams in the other classes are on byes this week.

    For those interested, Brian Linder at PennLive broke down the teams and key players better than I could. Rather than plagiarize, I’ll just repost the link below. Since he’s summarizing 44 teams it’s just a couple of sentences on each program plus their D1 talent but it’s a good overview along with prediction blurb for each class. He’s actually seen almost all of these teams play.

    I’m on board with all of his district winner predictions with the exception of 4A. He’s a bit higher on Susquehanna Twp than most. Not that it matters at the state level since the D3 champ is going to get wrecked by the TJ-ECP winner this year anyways. And my coin flip came up heads so I’m going to take Middletown.

    Milton Hershey
    Steel High


  886. Jeff H says:

    Kevin X noted a couple of possible upsets in D1, I don’t foresee any in the WPIAL, at least not in 6A or 5A, the one possibility would be #11 Baldwin over #6 McKeesport, I have seen both and that should be a pretty competitive game, but still think McKeesport will win at home. I do think #9 Upper St Clair will beat #8 North Hills, but wouldn’t consider that much of an upset because USC played in a much tougher conference than North Hills, winner will likely get rolled by #1 Penn Trafford the following week.

    I agree with D3 Mike that #1 Wilson is going to have their hands full with #8 Chambersburg, that’s a pretty rough draw in the first round for a #1 seed, if I’m MT I’d much rather play CV than Chambersburg, think the other top seeds in D3 win pretty comfortably.

    Anyone else have any possible upset specials this week?

  887. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Nice D1 6A picks. I will go on the record with one upset special. Believe Haverford will travel up Rte. 422 and knock off Spring-Ford. Second, I would not be as shocked as everyone else would be if Perk goes down to Dowingtown on Saturday and surprises DTE. How’s that for hedging second upset special???

  888. mark d says:

    @Kevin x heck even 8 out of 12 i AAAA make it.Cash cow games those stadiums will be empty.Even Valley View who draws well if their a chill in the air you be lucky to get enough to pay for the lights.You really think people form Pittston will travel up for the game how many people from Abington are going to be at Dallas very few trust me>No i call them a waste of money, time and a chance of getting kids hurt playing competition that we all know is over thier heads

  889. Buddy says:

    I know it’s been said before, but I’ll say it again………… drop down to 5 classes ( does the PIAA ever read these posts?)

    That would solve some of the problems mentioned below. Too many teams make the playoffs in some classes

    and other classes play hell fielding playoff teams. D1, 6A should only have 8 teams in playoffs ( they used to ).

  890. Jeff H says:

    @ Jut – PIAA gives each district a certain amount of weeks for their district playoffs, depending on the number of teams in each classification. For example, D3 has 18 teams in 6A, and PIAA gave them 4 weeks to complete playoffs, they chose to take 8 teams with a 3 week playoff, so that’s why they have a bye the week before they will take on the D1 winner. Other districts could do the same thing, it’s up to them to decide how to structure their playoffs, but most districts decide to take as many teams as possible, that’s why there are some really bad teams across the state that make their district playoffs. I think the PIAA should force district 3 to take their bye this week before the playoffs start, and not after they are completed, but that’s how the system is currently set up.

    In the WPIAL in 6A, there are only 9 teams, and PIAA gives them 3 weeks, so instead of 8 out of 9 teams making the playoffs for a full bracket there are 6 that make it, and top 2 seeds get byes this week, which are Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Pine Richland, so both of them have this week off. Same deal in D3 in 5A, there are 14 teams that make the playoffs, and top 2 seeds get a bye this week.

    As D3 Mike indicated the only way to do a fair seeding and bracket statewide would be to seed teams in each class 1-32 and do away with district playoffs, that is never going to happen because certain districts like the WPIAL will refuse to go along, and their teams would not play in state playoffs if push comes to shove and PIAA tries to eliminate district playoffs, to say nothing of all the travel involved when teams are seeded statewide for the whole tournament.

  891. Buddy says:

    Picks ( D1 6A ):

    DTW ( somewhat embarrassing)
    DTE ( want PV tho)
    CBW ( closer then you think)
    C’ville ( ugly)
    GV ( bit of a blowout)
    Abington ( close)

    Let’s see how badly I blow this one!

  892. D3 Mike says:

    @Jut this has been explained in the forums already but I’ll repeat it here. Districts almost always have byes (and there are many districts with byes) because they choose to have byes, not because they were “given byes by the PIAA”. The PIAA assigns a number of weeks for district playoffs based on the number of teams in each class relative to neighboring districts. District 3 was given 4 weeks for 4A, 5A, and 6A because it has one-quarter of the 4A, 5A, and 6A football teams in the state of PA and there was no more even way to split everything up this cycle (6A is an abomination because D1 and D3 alone have 60% of the 6A programs).

    In turn, District 3 CHOOSES to send roughly half of its teams into the playoffs while many other districts CHOOSE to send more than half of their teams just to fill out complete brackets. The result is byes for some District 3 teams (week 11 for 3A, 4A, and 5A and week 14 for 6A) while other districts are playing games. District 3 simply chooses to extend byes rather than add more mediocre teams to the bottom of its bracket to deliver more mercy rule, round 1 “playoff” games (like many of the other eastern PA districts are doing this weekend).

    If anything, District 3 should be required to hold its 6A bye in Week 11 (also, already stated) instead of Week 14 to make it more even with the D1 winner. But as it stands, again, District 3 has one-quarter of all big-schools (4A-6A) in PA and gets those winners placed in the state semi-finals (1/4 of teams, 1/4 of state spots, seems pretty fair to me) and one-eighth of all 3A programs with its winner placed in the quarterfinals (again, 1/8 of teams, 1/8 of state spots seems fair to me) so these teams certainly don’t get any “byes” into the state playoffs. There are lots of easy paths to the state playoffs in PA and other than 1A (agreed – should have been combined into a super region this cycle), none of them are in District 3.

  893. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    Here is some fun with numbers….there are 20 teams combined in the D2 “A” “2A” “3A” and “6A” classifications. Only 4 did not make the playoffs. In the other words, 80% of those teams will be playing another game this weekend. Simple greed. Call it the cash cow weekend (you can say this for across the state as well).

    @ Buddy

    Actually they would (have avoided), that was my point of being the #11 seed. Facing Abington and Garnet in the first two rounds, and not meeting up with one of the “Big 3” until possibly the district semi’s.

    @ Jut

    Of the six districts in the Eastern coverage area, I think D3 does it the best with their playoffs. Meaning that they actually limit the number of teams in the post season. My two issues are with their “A” (see prior post) and 6A, with having a bye before facing the D1 Champion (we’ve been down that road already). Solutions: either put bye before their (D3) championship game, start the 6A district playoffs a week later (everyone gets a bye this weekend), or, gonna contradict myself here (too many teams in the playoffs), go with a 10 or 12 team playoff like the other D3 classifications to add another week and equal things out.

    @D3 Mike
    You nailed nailed it, scrap the districts as currently set-up, go with an even 32 team/5 week system for each classification. (stop typing guys, Yeah, I know it will never happen).

  894. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – have not seen Central Valley live, only highlights, lot of team speed like Aiiquippa and throw the ball some, QB Ameer Dudley has passed for 1,200 yards and is a dual threat, receiver Juwon Hall has 10 TD receptions, including 2 long ones against the Quips of 49 and 35 yards, offense averages 40 ppg, also a pretty stout defense that totally shut down Aliquippa, I would be very surprised if they are not the Western rep in Hershey.

    Also agree with you about NG, expect their game against the D3 winner to be very competitive.

    Really pleased with the seedings in 5A, I think the WPIAL got it exactly right this time, and they don’t always, Penn Trafford is #1, Gateway #2, even though they finished 2nd in their conference behind Penn Trafford, Penn Hills #3, Moon #4 and Peters Township #5. Very interesting 2nd round games between Peters and Moon, as well as Penn Hills vs. McKeesport, I like Penn Trafford and Peters to meet in one semi-final, they played a classic last year in the quarterfinals won by Peters 38-35 on a last second field goal, with backyard rivals Gateway vs. Penn Hills in the other semi-final. I think this year will be a repeat of 2017 with Gateway beating Penn Trafford in the final, and reversing the result from the regular season, although I wouldn’t be surprised if Peters upsets Penn Trafford in the semi’s.

  895. mark d says:

    something has to change ! thier will be 12 playoff games in D2 this weekend. i will bet that 6 of the 12 will be mercy rule games 3 more will be by at least 3 touchdowns so that leaves 3 competitive game in the first week why ? dose 3-7 abington really need to play 10-0 Dallas ??? game will be over in the first quarter.they need to look at more sub regional games

  896. Buddy says:

    @ Kevin

    Actually, I wanted CB West 1st round, but CB South is a good 2nd choice. No matter where NP wound up, they wouldn’t have avoided

    either D-Towns or C’ville early on. If tradition holds true, NP is another animal at playoff time ( probably shouldn’t have said that…………jinx).

    I think they’ll beat CBS.( also think they would have beat CBW)…………….. DTW is another story.

  897. Jut says:

    These brackets every year make me laugh. With all these byes for district 3, like why is there no byes for others districts? Can some please explain? Next year when there is a new cycle, will other districts get the byes in states or will it be D3 again? I know PIAA headquarters are there so they might be bias for giving their schools some rest in the state playoffs which help a lot. Can’t be knocked out if you are playing while others play to get that far. How is that fair?

  898. New2PA says:

    Jeff H: I was at game. Number 5 (DE for NA) had to leave the game with what looked like back or leg issues had to be helped from training table after the game. #3 (Colon) also had to leave game with what looked like cramps, but did not return on defense. Not sure about O. #76 was ejected for taking a swing at the ref after a personal foul call. He’s definitely out for a week. #8 (Dinkins) dressed but did not play a snap. That was interesting. He could help them. Maybe just for appearances sake. Not sure. That’s all I saw. Maybe more. Trent Miller for P-R played entire game on defense – good to see since he was in major pain at the SV game with a shoulder.

    Will be interesting. P-R will have to continue to throw the ball like they did (Spencer for 400 and 5 TDs, Jochem for 11/221 with 3 TDs, Johnson 8/169, 1 TD) both deep and short passes to the sideline. Looked to me like P-R handled NA’s LB’s and DB’s well. Had some issues with the DL and couldn’t run the ball at all. Have to get Meckler going to keep winning IMO. But, defense played lights out. NA had 2 big plays for TD’s and that was about it. No consistent passing game to speak of really hurt them.

  899. Kevin X says:

    D1, D2, D3 and D11 should be an eight team regional (maybe call it a super regional, or not so super regional??) bracket as well. If I was associated with D3, I’d be embarrass staging that so-called “A” “championship” game.

  900. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Jeff H. You are right 2 years ago. I’am bad. How time flies by. But. I can remember reading on this forum alot of doubt from Philly fans saying Southern had no chance of winning that game.

  901. Santa says:

    To everyone from santa,

    I am not coming on here as different names let’s get that clear right now. Secondly whoever made the comment about southern not competing at 7 on 7 is absolutely ludicrous. You idiots want to play basketball on grass and that’s fine but again the game up north where we live is won on the line of scrimmage. How about come to the North Pole for our playoff games and all the chuck and duck offenses would be standing over by the salamander heaters on there sidelines getting there hands warm while southern would be driving it down the field running the football. My point is the culture the toughness the mental toughness would overwhelm all teams. The real game has been lost and santa wants it brought back. Great pumkin have a great Halloween

    Sincerely mr. Clause

  902. Mike A says:

    Panel to rule on Pennsylvania high school’s ‘Redskins’ nickname

  903. Matt says:

    @JC….I agree ……makes no sense. D11 AAA could be in a sub region with 2 in that class and take top 8 out of 15 total AAA teams in d11 and d2. Like AA and AAAAA in those districts. There are 3 teams above 500 in AAA d11(Jim Thorpe, Salisbury and Northern Lehigh). But all three won’t make it. And in A d11 you have an 0-10 (shenendoah valley) team playing in the district tournament…..this needs to get looked at….make more sub regions in the smaller classes ….better playoffs matches than a 0-10 or 2-8 team playing a 9-1 or 10-0 team…..

  904. Jeff H says:

    Brackets and pairings for WPIAL will be announced tonight at 7pm, we already know 6A, as I previously posted Central Catholic and PR are #1 and #2 and have first round byes, in the semi-finals PCC will host winner of Seneca Valley-Mt Lebo, and PR will again host NA, assuming they beat Canon Mac next week at home. I heard from a buddy of mine NA came out of the PR game really banged up, and expect them to perhaps rest some guys next week, I don’t see how they flip the script against PR in 2 weeks and looks like it will be another PR vs. PCC final at Heinz.

    Will be very interesting to see how they seed 5A, Penn Trafford is the no brainer number 1, but after that it gets a little hazy, I suspect they will have 9-1 Penn Hills at #2, and should have Gateway #3 ahead of Moon, the other section winner. If they seed Moon ahead of Gateway that would have Gateway playing Peters Township in 2nd round, and I still think those 2 are the biggest threats to Penn Trafford, I actually like Gateway’s chances and pick them to win, still not sold on Penn Hills, they played a very weak schedule outside of Pine Richland in week 0.

    4A is a formality because TJ is so much better than everyone else, expect South Fayette to be #2, but think they will lose to TJ by at least a couple of scores if they meet.

    3A is all Central Valley, and Aliquippa still likely #2 after getting blown out on Friday, both appear head and shoulders above everyone else in the WPIAL 3A.

    2A – Washington should be #1, a lot of good teams and balance in this class, don’t think the WPIAL winner will beat Wilmington and expect them to face SCA for the third year in a row in Hershey

    1A – Clairton had an impressive win on Friday against Jeanette, think those 2 will likely meet again in the final.

  905. The Joneses says:

    Asking for a friend….. Do those of you who are fans of a specific team (Ex Southern) get any satisfaction of debating why your team would beat another team knowing they are never going to play each other? Again. just asking for a friend.

  906. D3 Mike says:

    @JC I think it gets re-aligned after this cycle (so we should have new brackets in 2020). I agree, though – not only the difference in the number of schools but it’s also odd that D2 was given 3 weeks for only 7 schools to play through? The match-ups should be flipped based purely on the numbers. It’s probably a geographic thing where D11/D12 and D2/D4 are closer geographically so they got matched up. IDK. That’s sort of how they do the brackets for 6A, too… but then it’s flipped again for 4A so who the heck knows.

    That said, Neumann-Goretti has a strong team and all, but to reach the quarterfinals Lancaster Catholic, Wyomissing, and Middletown have to play each other and they have 6 trips to Hershey and 3 titles between them in the last decade. The second-best team in the state in 5A hasn’t been making it out of Heinz Field, either, and it will probably be the same story this year. It’s impossible to keep brackets balanced unless you’re willing to do away with districts and just seed teams in each class #1-#32 or something, with all the travel that would entail.

    @Jeff, have you seen Central Valley live or on TV? What does their team look like? Both Middletown and Wyomissing run the Wing-t. Middletown is a bit more modern and plays more on the edges and Wyomissing runs the classic version – big line, big fullback, two fast halfbacks. Neither throws it – at all. Curious what that final might look like if one of them gets thru the East (although NG might be the favorite at this point, and I had thought NG vs. Aliquippa would have been a fun shootout).

  907. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    I think what looks out of skew is that D2 lost 2 3A teams this year with the consolidation of the W-B schools. So kind of had to impervise on the fly. With that said, think it was actually worse last year, with 8 of the 9 schools making the 3A D2 playoffs.

    Things should be rearranged next year when the new 2 year enrollment and classifications/re-classifications are announced.

    Don’t get too ahead of yourself, N-G will still have to get past PJPII first.

  908. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Yes, you did indeed get your wish. But as the saying goes, be careful for what you wish for. If I was rooting for North Penn, I’d rather take my chances as the #11 seed and go thru Abington and Garnet versus as being the current #9 seed and facing CB South and DTW.

    You probably already saw this by now, but the DTE game is Saturday night at Kottmeyer Stadium in Downingtown. DTW hosts there Friday night. The two Downingtown’s share Kottmeyer. Good chance we’ll see that scenario play out next weekend as well with back to back Friday and Saturday night games. You lucky ChesMont peeps!!!!

  909. Jeff H. says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe – that was 2 yrs ago that SCA played NG, and those of us that follow football statewide predicted SCA would win that game, including some of the Philly guys, if you read some of the other boards.

  910. JC says:

    When do the playoff brackets get re-aligned? I noticed that 6 out of 7 AAA schools in D2 make the playoffs, but only 4 of 9 AAA schools in D11 qualify. Those D11 teams really get hard-done by having to get through Neumann-Goretti just to reach the quarterfinals.

  911. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Jiminy Cricket In my book team camps, speed camps 7 on 7 is just what it says. It is a indication of what you need and improve upon. It is not a game! You are right in saying Southern would be hard pressed to play 5 A 6A. Example I would say SJP would easily defeat them by 3 or 4 scores maybe even mercy rule (sorry Southern guys). But I would never bet against them either. Now thinking back to last year when they played that super team from Philly NG.. nobody gave Southern a chance in heck to win that game. all the Philly guys laughed at the thought. Southern easily won because they play SOLID discipline fundamental football. Southern is good at frustrating you into mistakes just like they did to NG and sent them packing. Before you say you are just a fan of Southern yes I follow them. But at heart a Dunmore bucks fan!

  912. Uncle T says:

    As for D1 5A, there should be some great 2nd round matchups.

    Unionville would give Cheltenham a stern test, enough to see just how good the 1 seed is this year.
    Kennett against a bulldozing Strath Haven team that has been solid this year outside of a mismatch with 6A Garnet Valley and getting bit by the division 1 recruits from 6A Haverford.
    WC East/Rustin will be a neighborhood slugfest in what should be a great high school football atmosphere.

    I think WC East is the favorite in the bracket, and could be a state final team if they stay healthy.

  913. Uncle T says:

    Looking at the D1 6A bracket, that Coatesville/CB West game in the 2nd round will be very interesting. It has seemed the last 3 years that the only way to neutralize the ‘Ville’s offense (other than turnovers like vs. Harrisburg last year) has been to keep them off the field by a consistent running attack by the opposing offense. It almost goes without saying that Matt Ortega and crew haven’t seen anything like the CB West nouveau wing-T recently, and they had their problems facing Garnet Valley’s triple option for the first time in the 2017 final.

    Either way, the semifinal on that side of the bracket will be fun. Coatesville has earned the right to be the favorite to get back to the final, but they’re going to have to go through a couple sketchy games to get there. I doubt Garnet Valley will have any real trouble with OJR or Abington/PW, so we’ll either get the Wing-T vs. Triple Option, or Coatesville/GV part 3 without one of the Young brothers to decimate GV again.

  914. Jiminey Cricket says:

    WADR to Southern Columbia as they are a very good team, Santa and The Bloody Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown are outta their mind. I watched this Southern Columbia team at the LVC team camp this summer with great interest in their approach, their star players, and their potential. During the 7v7 they were pedestrian at best. During their 11 man team scrimmage they got run by a middling 6A Wilson. Their Stud RB heading to Michigan gaining negative yards and their stud WR being frustrated by decent DBs destined for D1 baseball careers. To ascert that Southern Columbia would be competitive against the states best is laughable.

  915. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, Wyomissing is very 1 dimensional, we both saw that, Wolfrum does have some passing plays he runs when the opponent stacks the box against them. That throwback screen they used against BC was a touchdown if the QB didn’t over throw it, I have seen Wyo throw it downfield on occasion this year and hit some big plays, their starting QB was lost the 1st game of the season. I think Wyo handles Middletown this year, this is Wyo’s best teams since their State Championship team and Middletown, while still good, looks to be a couple of notches down from the last few years. Wolfrum in my opinion is one of the top 5 coaches in PA football. BC had several VG football players transfer out the last few years, plus losing 29 Seniors from last year and the PIAA turning down 2 big time transfers this year really hurt them. What’s scary is Wyo is starting mostly Jr’s and Soph’s, BC does have some young talent that needs to develop but your right, football starts upfront and Wyo just dominated the line of scrimmage.

  916. Buddy says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, DTE doesn’t have a field?

    DTE & DTW both have home games Fri. nite.

    Who plays where? Will one game be Sat.?

  917. Dennis Pascoe says:

    I was sadden to hear about North Schuylkill QB Jaden Leiby. All of us who love high school football please pray for him and his family. Football is only a game. Life is real. With today’s doctors and the technology I pray they can help this young man on his road to recovery. Thankyou

  918. D3 Mike says:

    Of note re: the D3 brackets:

    6A: Wilson did finish ahead of Manheim Township in the PR so they would get the final at home. They draw Chambersburg next Friday which is a brutal 1st rd game for a #1 seed. Chambersburg played some quality opponents tight in October. MT draws Cumberland Valley and then the district dark horse, Central Dauphin, in the semifinals.

    5A: D3 furthers my interest in a WPIAL-style selection committee as its PR system matches Warwick and Manheim Central in the district quarterfinals. Well done, power rankings!

    4A: This bracket actually makes sense. The two best teams IMO (Milton Hershey (2) and Bishop McDevitt (4)) drew pretty good match-ups. Top 6 seeds in D3-4A get a bye so we won’t know more about this class for a couple of weeks.

    3A: The main thing of note here is that Wyomissing has the #1 seed. Since they don’t have lights they play all of their games Sat at 1, meaning there probably won’t be much competition for attention on Nov 16 when they square up with Middletown.

    2A: A good bracket that flies under the radar because of SCA. Steel-High is probably the best team but they have the tougher semi and would also have to go on the road to Upper Dauphin. UD scoring almost 55 PPG.

  919. Buddy says:

    I’m assuming something happens with the 4, 5 & 6 seed. Almost has to.

    DTE should, and I assume will, be 4th seed. Toss up between SF and Abington for 5 & 6.

    PIAA power points has them all tied. But for no other reason DTE has 1 loss, other two has 2 losses.

    Got my wish. NP goes to CBS. Any changes on the above shouldn’t change that.

  920. Kmac says:


    The team seeding meeting for District One playoffs is 10AM today (Sunday) at North Penn High School. Results are considered unofficial until noon on Monday to allow any disputes to be settled that may arise unexpectedly; which of course, should not occur. Possibly sometime today we may know the results.

  921. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How many D1 players did Neumann Goretti have when Southern played them and what kind of numbers 1 way vs 2 way players did they have, etc.

    And I’m honestly asking because I don’t know.

    I am not a Southern fan by any means. And my opinion is based solely on this year’s team and what they’d be capable of.

    I just think all you large school people even though you’re giving them respect, don’t truly understand what that defense can do and what their discipline and their staff can do, game planning and then getting the kids to execute. It’s not totally about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s. It’s more than that.

  922. Tornado Fan says:

    @Foleman SCA does not have many players go both ways. That is one of the main reasons MCA has not been able to beat them the past few years. It is usually a close game at half time but SCA always pulls away in the 2nd half after MCA’s mostly 2 way players get worn down. The past 10 years, MCA has had avg. ~35 players on the roster compared to SCA with avg ~55 players.

    I think that certain years, small schools have fielded quality teams capable of competing with anyone in the state. I always thought some of MCA’s best teams in the 90’s could have competed with anyone except maybe CB West. This year’s SCA team would compete with anyone except the elite big school teams like St. Joe’s Prep and its not going out on a limb to say they are probably going to go down as the best AA team of all time.

    Also, prayers for the North Schuylkill QB Jaden Leiby who was life flighted after going down with a serious neck injury Friday night against Pottsville.

  923. Kevin X says:

    ……and before I forget……

    @ FrankG

    THANK YOU!!! FINALLY!!!! Someone gets it!!! Your post needs re-posting……. (hope you don’t mind)

    “@JC The larger problem is that there are more and more completely non-competitive games–or so my scanning of the state-wide results each week suggests. The fact that two schools are pretty much the same size means a whole lot less than it used to, not just in cases where one school has boundaries and the other doesn’t but also in the more numerous cases where one school has a solid program and the other doesn’t. To some degree the problem will be resolved by some schools dropping football–I predict a steady stream of them beginning in the next few years–but the main problem will remain unless there’s a different approach to scheduling and classification.”

  924. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    With now La Salle beating RC, and H-Burg laying the wood on Altoona, granted not official until tomorrow, but appears D1 6A looking like #6 Abington, #7 Coatesville, #8 CB South, #9 North Penn, #10 Souderton, #11 P-W. Top and bottom rankings looking to be unchanged. Not getting #4 S-F over #5 DTE, but maybe that will change.

    Wouldn’t get overly concerned about a C’Ville/CB West match-up. If anything, Doylestown is a nice place to hang out before and/or after a game. BTW…..did you make it up here the other week?? Think I recall you were looking for some games to attend a few weeks ago…..the North Penn/CB West tilt was quite the contest if you missed it!!!

  925. Jay says:

    Are the seeds final yet? In my last comment I made a lot of assumptions and now I’m wondering if my scenario for Coatesville is way different than what’s actually going to happen. But either way I feel like they have an incredibly tough road through the D1 playoffs.

  926. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    I’m also liking that scenario four Fridays from now at Kottmeyer Stadium, and I couldn’t be more excited about it. I like Downingtown West’s route more than Coatesvilles though.

    If Coatesville gets through their home game next week, which I think they should, they have a tough road starting at CB West (which excites me because I’ve never seen CB West play before), and at Garnet Valley in a matchup where the Jaguars will want to deliver some payback for the past two seasons and also to avenge their only loss of the season the following week in Downingtown (all assuming higher seeds win of course).

    The D1 playoffs are going to be incredibly exciting this year. Not only in 6A but also in 5A – I’m really pulling for a Kennett vs WC East rematch and would be happy to see either one win their tournament. What a year for both teams.

  927. Brian says:

    Uncle T. You may want to look at southerns schedule a little closer or scroll down to the post I submitted earlier. They have 1AA school on their schedule. They have 1 A school on their schedule. All the rest are AAA or AAAA. I’m not going to get into the southern could or couldn’t beat so and so from 6A and 5A. These are opinions of people and that’s it’s. Southern haters will say they can’t, southern fans will say they can. All I know is this is a once in a lifetime team and that they could compete with anyone. I didn’t say win I said compete but it wouldn’t shock me if they would win.

  928. Kevin X says:

    Sorry guys, a little late with this. Anybody interested in catching the stream of the LaSalle/Roman Catholic game from the historic, yet quirky Conshy “A” Field, here you go. 6p kickoff……


  929. Kevin X says:

    @ Marcm

    NP would only be getting an additional 10 LaSalle “win bonus points”if LaSalle does beat RC this evening. LaSalle’s other wins have already been factored into NP’s rating points. So looking more like a #9 seed.

  930. Buddy says:


    Nah, rooting for a LaSalle win. Wanna see NP at CBS ( rather then Abington).

    Revenge factor maybe plus CBS is lot closer for me than Abington ( getting lazy, i.e. old. )

    If C’ville and both D-towns are in upper bracket, how can they meet in the final? I must be missing something.

    @ Marcm:

    I think the best NP can do is 9th. Am I missing something?

  931. Mike A says:

    State College defeats Cumberland Valley 33-21 at Beaver Stadium.

  932. Marcm says:

    I think NP will jump to 7th place with the 80pts they’ll get with a LaSalle win

  933. ColonilaFan says:

    @Kevin X

    Thanks for the well wishes!
    D11 5A title is definitely there for the taking. Will be our best shot as any with a matchup against East Stroudsburg South most likely. We’ve handed them in past district matchups, but that was then. One week at a time and hopefully we do get that chance to play with house money!
    Don’t get me started on the field…I actually work in the grounds department for the district, shhhh. It’s good now, fortunately we only missed the first two home games of the season, but it was basically a five week toad trip to start the season! Looks like we’ll be getting a visit from Wyoming Valley West next week!

  934. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    That is the way I see and read things. H-Burg should walk over Altoona today so that would trigger C’Ville moving up to #7 and CBS dropping down to #8. If I was North Penn, I’d be rooting for RC tonight. I’d rather stay at #11 and travel down to Abington next week vs having a rematch at CBS. Also, if you beat Abington, I’d rather take my chances the following week at Garnet versus DTW (assuming chalk holds).

    Hoping (and they should) C’Ville moves up to #7 so to be on the other side of the bracket from the Downingtowns. Sets a up potential C’Ville vs a Downingtown final at Kottmeyer. The best game with the best teams at the best D1 stadium. Of course, I am getting waaaaay ahead of myself…..

  935. NW PA says:

    I’ve been saying it on this forum all year but TJ is the real deal. After what Central Valley did to Alaquippa last night it makes their convincing win a few weeks back look even better. The game against Erie Cathedral will be somewhere in Pittsburgh, probably Baldwin again, mark your calendars.

  936. Joey Football says:

    Dennis Pascoe, I think that Southern Columbia would prob win the 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A with no argument. They would beat 90% of 6A this year most likely. But they cannot play at elite level of big school football. For no other reason than for numbers. The coaching is outstanding and they outstanding players. But elite big school teams have enough top end talent to match the SoCo top end talent, where they lose is how much better the talent is after the top end talent.

  937. Jeff H says:

    @D3Mike – total dominance by Central Valley, not surprised they won because I thought that game could go either way, based on how 3A has played out the last 3 yrs I think CV has to be considered the favorite to win 3A, and at this point I would pick Central Valley vs. the Middletown-Wyomissing winner to meet in Hershey, sounds like that should be a tremendous game. In answer to your other question, yes, 4A is 3-4 TD’s better than 3A this year, as it has been for the last few years, and it also leads me to think TJ-ECP is going to be a real battle in 4 weeks.

    @Dennis Pascoe – thank you for bringing a little sanity to the discussion from a SC fan, I have all the respect in the world for Roth and the program but to say they would beat SJP is just silly, I do think they would compete with them for awhile, but as others have pointed out they would get worn down in 2nd have and lose by 3-4 scores, something like 49-21.

  938. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Foreman You are correct on the old WING – T But that old wing -t that Southern runs if you remember has put that all-star team NG last year running back to Philly. And remember how it crushed a good Aliquippa team to the point where the coach would not give a interview at end of game. It does work at the small school level. @ Kevin 2nd and 3rd team members get to play alot after half time to see what the future holds is also good to watch. I must agree I would love to see a Southern vs SJP . But I think without a doubt SJP would win by 3 or 4 scores.

  939. Buddy says:

    OK, let me get this straight. I think C. Valley will lose and H-burg will win.

    That being the case, C’ville and CBS switch places, correct?

    If LaSalle wins, NP jumps all the way to #9, correct? ( I’m assuming Souderton would be #10 and PW #11.)

    Big question: who will win the LS vs RC tilt ( opinion obviously) ?

    As a NP fan, I sure as hell don’t wanna travel C’ville!

  940. D3 Mike says:


    As an HNHS alum, I attended the BC vs Wyo game last night, as always, despite knowing the result in advance. Wow. After all the crying about transfers and recruiting the past few years what I watched was a huge, talented Wyomissing team absolutely dominate a BC squad with 1 or 2 legitimate big-school lineman on it. If you’d seen the two teams line-up, you’d know that Berks was lucky to keep it 23-0.

    That said, you’re picking Wyo to win the state (and they will probably be #1 in a lot of places after the Aliquippa loss) but I still don’t see it. I thought last night was as much a function of BC being anemic on offense as anything. They haven’t moved the ball on anyone all season. 4 losses, Exeter should have been a loss, and they scored 14 or under in 6 games of their 10 games.

    More importantly, Wyo completed just 1 pass for 17 yards last night. I get that they didn’t have to throw much but aren’t you afraid that they are too 1-dimensional? How will they play from behind? I will definitely be at the Wyomissing vs Middletown district 3 final. Might be #1 vs #2 in the state.


    re: Aliquippa, seriously, what the heck man? Was really counting on them lol. Now I guess the question is where does this put Central Valley? And of equal importance, what does it say about TJ beating CV 28-3? If CV really is the favorite in 3A, is the difference between 3A and 4A really 4 touchdowns this year?

  941. Kevin X says:

    Creds to Kyle Berger!!!!

    Prelim final D1 6A seedings……

    1. Downingtown West 180
    2. CB West 173
    3. Garnet Valley 167
    4. Downingtown East 162
    ⬆️ (Wins tiebreaker on reg season record)
    5. Spring-Ford 162
    6. Abington 161
    7. CB South 155
    8. Coatesville 154.4
    ⬆️ could pass CB South if either Cumberland Valley or Harrisburg win tomorrow
    9. Souderton 153
    10. Plymouth Whitemarsh 152.2
    11. North Penn 152
    ⬆️ will move to #9 if LaSalle wins tomorrow (win head-to-head tiebreak with Souderton)
    12. Haverford 145
    13. Perk Valley 144
    14. Owen J Roberts 143
    15. Ridley 141
    16. Pennsbury 135

  942. Kevin X says:

    @ Dennis


    Been to a game for the 5th Friday night in a row tonight where the game was still a one score game in the 4th quarter. Third week in a row where the game was still in doubt with less than 2 minutes to go. Really don’t care to spend my Friday nights sitting at a game for 75 minutes with the mercy rule in effect starting the second half. Maybe that’s just me.

    BTW, it is now time for EA to join the top eastern 5 in 3A, if not the top 3.

  943. Kevin X says:

    @ Black and white

    Have you been thru concussion protocol recently???

  944. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Southern gave up 6 points to Danville coaches not happy. Southern is such a fun team to watch. Their defense will rock you while the offence keeps rolling . Worth the trip to see them play.. Go early it gets packed.

  945. Jeff H. says:

    Couple of surprising blowouts in 2 really big games in WPIAL tonight, PR pulled away from NA and won going away 42-14, and with PCC crushing Mt Lebo all three tied for the conference at 7-1 and with tiebreakers order of finish and seed in playoffs will be PCC, PR and NA. So, PCC will demolish the winner of SV and Lebo in 2 weeks and be at Heinz to play winner of rematch in 2 weeks between PR and NA after NA blows out Canon Mac next week in first round. IMO PCC is clear favorite and will win, then take on winner of McDowell vs. State College in quarterfinals, with winner getting SJP following week in semi-finals.

    And, in a total stunner, Central Valley mercy ruled Aliquippa at the PIT 45-6, after sprinting to a 38-0 halftime lead. Aliquippa fumbled first play from scrimmage and 2 plays later and a minute into the game it was 7-0 and all downhill from there. Aliquippa scored late in 4th quarter to avoid shutout, everyone is searching the record books but it’s believed to be the first time ever Aliquippa was mercy ruled at home. What this means is that Central Valley is now the favorite not just in WPIAL but also for state title and could become 4th different team in last 4 yrs from Beaver County to win 3A title.

  946. Foleman says:

    Black and White, it’s time for you to hang it up. Only 1 6A school in the History of the PIAA Football playoffs has won a Big School Championship running the Wing T and that was Cumberland Valley 27 years ago, and guess what, you will never see another Wing T school win another title at 6A. Southern Columbia runs the Wing T to perfection, I watched another small school State Championship caliber team-Wyomissing run it to perfection tonight against Berks Catholic, the Wing T works in the small school realm, not against the Big Boys, Central Dauphin-6A shut down Berks Catholic’s Wing T last year and so did Erie Cathedral Prep……..which talent wise is a 5A or 6A team, the previous 2 years. If Wyomissing, ranked 2nd in AAA, and my pick to win it this year, played 6A Manheim Township or Wilson from District 3, they would lose by at least 3-4 scores. Prep would shut down SC’S running game and double Fleming when needed, it would not be a close game. Remember, those kids from SC go both ways, they would get worn down by Prep’s size and athleticism.

  947. Jay says:

    Ricky Ortega and Dapree Bryant lose in a Ches-Mont matchup for the first time. I think they’ll have one more in a couple weeks at Downingtown West, assuming they’re the #8 seed next week.

    East played a good game tonight but they received a lot of help from the refs on their go-ahead drive in the fourth. First a questionable pass interference call around midfield, and then quite possibly the most ridiculous personal foul call to ever be called, when Dapree Bryant pushed the ball carrier out of bounds causing him to land really hard. They penalized the result, not the action, and it continued the game-winning drive. Where I was standing at the end zone fence, I had a front row seat for it… Dapree pushed him out well before he was out of bounds. Not even close. Way to go refs.

    But yeah, good job East.

  948. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville got outplayed by DTE tonight — couldn’t really stop the run — which was surprising. Gives them a much more difficult path in the playoffs. Ortega still doesn’t seem like he is moving well. Bring on the playoffs — they should be exciting.

  949. Uncle T says:

    Black and white- you are used to seeing Southern Columbia face 2A schools every week, and 1 decent 3A team. I don’t think you know what you are talking about when it comes to elite 6A competition. To say they would blow SJP off the field is absurd.

  950. Chief Red Raider says:

    Are we all being punked with this SC stuff? Seriously? As the “kill the guy who gets it” champ of my neighborhood when I was 10, I’m not seeing them the “best in every classification in the state — not even close”

  951. D1 Miguel says:

    Santa, if you’re going to agree with yourself from multiple handles at least scrub your posts for forensic signatures so we can be left guessing if multiple people really are this nuts! You and “Black and White” are the only ones who refer to Southern Columbia as “southern”, repeatedly, all in lowercase.

    P.S. I’m amused that comments are delayed due to an “approval” process and obvious troll posts still get through. What’s the point of this set-up, exactly. To prevent profanity?

  952. Black and white says:

    I would like to jump in on the southern Columbia discussion. I’ve coached high school football for 20 plus years and coached at the division 2 collegiate level for 11 years. Currently I am a official for high school and the college levels and have been doing that for the past 15 years. I’ve always followed the eastern pa site for years and enjoyed some of the discussions. It seems that a few years ago there was a Santa that would bring up some great topics and make some very valid points. I remember a public and private school discussion that was brought up several years ago and went on for months and just as the dust settled the great chosen one from the North Pole would say his words of wisdom and the discussion would fire up again. After being around the game for 40 plus years I will side with santa and the great pumkin on the southern topic. Southern undoubtedly isn’t one of the best teams in the state, they are in fact the best in every classification and it isn’t even close. They are one of the best in the country no doubt. The facts are this they have 5 division 1 big ten kids with the best coaching staff in the state with the greatest tradition in the state. Would SJP have some plays against southern yes they absolutely would. Would the game be close no it absolutely wouldn’t be. It might be close for a half and that’s it. The style that southern plays is style in today’s times and today’s mindset that can’t be stopped. They would only have to throw to Fleming 6-8 times during the game. Sure they would be crucial times and downs but the game would still be controlled by down blocks drive blocks pulling guards and old fashioned football that in today’s schemes can’t be stopped. Kudos to the southern staff for keeping the game simple and playing it the way it’s supposed to be played with blocking tackling and most of all discipline.

  953. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley ready for ‘once-in-a-lifetime’ game at Beaver Stadium against State College

  954. FrankG says:

    @JC The larger problem is that there are more and more completely non-competitive games–or so my scanning of the state-wide results each week suggests. The fact that two schools are pretty much the same size means a whole lot less than it used to, not just in cases where one school has boundaries and the other doesn’t but also in the more numerous cases where one school has a solid program and the other doesn’t. To some degree the problem will be resolved by some schools dropping football–I predict a steady stream of them beginning in the next few years–but the main problem will remain unless there’s a different approach to scheduling and classification.

  955. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – good analogy to golf, tonight is also moving night in the WPIAL with several big games on tap that will affect seeding and home field advantage. In 6A Pine Richland hosts NA, if NA wins they are #1, PCC #2, PR #3 and Mt. Lebo #4. if PR wins, which I think they will, then there is a 3 way tie for first, assuming PCC beats Mt Lebo, and order of finish determined by Gardner Points, which at this point would favor PR and NA. Top 2 seeds have a bye next week, then host semi-final games in 2 weeks, so pretty important to finish in top 2.

    5A also has a lot of games that will impact seeding and home field advantage for first round, biggest is probably Gateway at McKeesport, both will have home playoff games next week, but ironically the loser might end up on the easier side of the bracket depending on how things shake out tonight, Penn Hills hosts North Hills for conference title, but I expect Penn Hills to win by at least a couple of scores.

    3A Aliquippa hosts Central Valley, winner wins the conference, both will probably be top 2 seeds and will likely meet again in 3 weeks at Heinz for WPIAL title

    1A – Jeannette at Clairton, winner wins the conference, loser might not get a home playoff game, same as above, good chance these 2 see each other at Heinz again in 3 weeks

    @ Philly Boy – agree with you on SC vs. SJP, I would travel from Pittsburgh to wherever in the state that game is played and gladly pay $50 for a ticket if it went to charity, could sell a ton of tickets a week after the state championships, unfortunately we’ll just have to dream about it.

  956. Kevin X says:

    Week 17, December 14th, Hershey Park Stadium doubleheader…….ECP vs. 5A PIAA State Champ (early game), nightcap, final game of the year…….SCA vs SJP. Let’s do it for a TBD Christmas time charity(s)……..

  957. JC says:

    @The Great Pumpkin: It really just sounds like you have a dog in the fight. Not knocking SC but there’s a world of difference between what they’ve scheduled and what SJP has. SC has beat up on 4A and lower schools, plus a South Carolina school that competes in a private division of 15 teams that people overrate because of their “state titles”. The majority of SJP’s schedule would wipe the floor with any school SC has played this year.

    I don’t mean to suggest that SC is at fault for their schedule, because they have done a good job finding tougher games where they can. But the narrative that they might be favored against SJP, or that you can count on one hand the PA teams that could even COMPETE with SC, has got to stop. Shame we’ll never really find out, because neither side will be proven right or wrong.

  958. Kevin X says:

    Golf has their “moving day” on Saturdays of their tournaments, so I’ll deem tonight “moving night” for the D1 5A and 6A playoff seedings. Most teams have secured their ticket for the start of next weeks district playoffs, just going to be a lot of jockeying for playoff positions and home fields at stake in games tonight. Should be fun!!!

  959. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    That’s cool. Good luck to your son and the SoLeHi team and community going forward. Think the D11 5A championship is yours for the taking. After that, maybe it’s like playing with the houses money and just enjoy the ride. Is your field back in shape?? Thought you guys were road warrior to start the season.

  960. phillyboy says:

    Would love to see a SJP – Southern Columbia game at very end of season. Can they make it happen? Are you kidding me, I’d call out sick for that one.

  961. Jeff H. says:

    @The Great Pumpkin – Everyone agrees SC has a fantastic team this year and wonderful program, but they have not played any team in the last several years, maybe ever, that is remotely close in talent to SJP…who have they played that was “loaded” with D1 talent? It’s fun to speculate how they would do against the top teams in the state, but have they played any teams in recent years that have D1 lineman and average 280+ along the offensive/defensive lines, or any team that has the team speed of say Coatesville? I agree with JC, they would lose to SJP by at least a couple of scores, and as I previously stated I think they would likely lose to some other top 6A teams as well. It’s a shame they didn’t follow the lead of Kennedy Catholic in basketball, who won the 1A state title 2 years ago, but played up in 6A and won 6A last year, this was the 2yr cycle for SC to play up and see how they would fare against the big boys.

  962. phillyboy says:

    Yes Virginia, there is a Southern Columbia Santa

  963. Jeff H. says:

    @D3Mike – I had a hunch the reason Wilson is #1 had to do with their opponents records, but how can head to head not be a bigger factor, especially when you beat that team on their home field by 2 scores, seems pretty obvious head to head should count for more. That’s a pretty tough break for MT if they end up with the #2 seed, but if I’m the coach I’m using that as motivation that the system is rigged against us.

    @NWPA/JC – agree with you about Oil City, decent team, but as you said 4A playing up to avoid ECP, they are not a top 10 team in the state, there are probably at least 8 teams, if not more, in the WPIAL in 5A that are better than they are, and I suspect they’ll get bounced from the state playoffs very early if they get past Meadville this week, that should be a very close game, they beat them by 1 point in the regular season.

    @Kevin X/PhillBoy – I realize Wood is way down by their standards and think have only 9-10 seniors, but as you said no one in D12 will beat them, so that puts them in the state quarterfinals, needing only to win 1 game to get the WPIAL champ in the semi’s, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they get that far.

  964. D3 Mike says:

    I played A-football and remember suiting up 19 players for districts, including 8 two-way starters (and this was back when only good teams made districts 🙂 ). I love small-school football. And I wouldn’t even consider SCA all that small considering that they are probably moving up to 3A next cycle and because of their tradition attract, what, 50+ to the roster each year? But now I’ve got kids in a 6A school and it’s simply night and day comparing anything to the elite 6A programs.

    Smaller schools get ground down in the second half against teams with 20-22 different starters, 20-22 assigned back-ups who are just a little behind the starters in skill level, plus another 10+ different kids who play special teams. And 80% of the above are juniors and seniors with all of the extra physical development that entails. That’s 6A football.

    I honestly think Southern Columbia might have the best high-end talent (top 5 players) in the state and could play with ANYONE. I just think if you’re talking wins and losses, it comes down to a numbers game over the course of 48 minutes. It’s exploiting team weaknesses, back-up quality, and the fatigue factor. A 2A public is not going to have the 5 cornerbacks needed to run with a greater Philadelphia all-star team for an entire game. That’s just now how demographics work. When Julian Fleming tweaks an ankle, what do you think that drop-off looks like compared to the #2 WR option at a St. Joe’s Prep when Harrison tweaks his? Finally, how many plays do SCAs top 5 have to play in the first half compared to the top 5 on an elite 6A team? 50% more plays? Twice as many? How does that play out in the 4th quarter? As I said, the talent is certainly there but at a certain point it becomes a numbers game.

  965. Santa says:

    Great pumkin,

    I’m glad that you’re smelling what I’m stepping in when it comes to the topic of southern. There is a lot of undereducated people out there that just doesn’t understand the game like the great pumkin and Santa. I’m sure the these same people that think these bigger schools would beat southern are huge supporters of the all or nothing offenses. The chuck and duck. These teams would get stopped one possession and then look up at the clock and realize that halftime is almost upon them and they haven’t even had the ball. Southern consistently still wins because the most important people on the field are the people winning the battle on the line of scrimmage. The game has been destroyed by the beliefs of spread offenses and people still forget that the teams that control the clock, the line of scrimmage and can run the ball in November and December win the district and state titles. Thanks for believing in Santa great pumkin. You have a great Halloween

  966. JC says:

    @NWPA: Winner of D10 plays the D6/8 champ, likely Hollidaysburg. H-burg is much more battle-tested than Oil City, with their losses coming to State College, Cedar Cliff, Fort Hill (MD), and McDowell. I would bet Hollidaysburg wins that and then plays the D2/11 champ, likely Southern Lehigh, another team who has only played teams 4A and lower. Don’t be surprised if we see Wood-Hollidaysburg in the quarters again.

  967. The Great Pumpkin says:

    JC, Santa is more correct than you are. I know SJP is loaded with talent, but SC has played lots of team in the playoffs over the past few years that were loaded with D1 talent and have still managed to win those games pretty easily. In my opinion, there are only 3-5 teams in the state that would give SC a game. And I think those games all could go either way. But with the way that SC defense is playing and how hungry they would be to prove themselves, I think SC in those 5 hypothetical matchups would win more often than lose and could potentially win in all 5 matchups.

    You don’t understand until you have seen them and been a part of what they are. They are suffocating and they take one mistake you make and they start to roll. One mistake becomes 2 and 3 and the team they play goes from down 7 or being tied and you look up 5 mins of game time later and you are down 21 or 28. It is insane.

    Southern is dangerous in every facet of the game. And they can score at any point in time, doesn’t matter if it is their offense, defense or special team on the field.

  968. ColonialFan says:


    I’m a Southern Lehigh guy and have a son that plays for them. This year we are a run oriented team with a strong line and three backs capable of big plays. However, we are also a team that has never won a district title or played a state playoff game. The prospect of playing Wood is well…um…yeah. It could be an exciting year for the team, but we got a ways to go yet!

  969. NW PA says:

    I certainly didn’t mean to knock Oil City, they are undefeated and they are a decent team but they aren’t a top ten 5A team. They are a 4A team playing up. Oil City, Warren, General McLean, and I believe Meadville are all 4A teams that play up to avoid Erie Cathedral in District 10. They just haven’t played anyone good, half their wins are against 3A schools. They could easily loose to Meadville next week in the title game. There are no 5A teams close to northwest PA besides teams in Pittsburgh so I’m not sure who the winner would play after that but when they run into a top 20 5A team I predict a decisive loss.

  970. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, NW PA, and D11 folk:

    I watched the Wood/LaSalle game the other night. The short review, yep, Jeff H read correct. More specifically, I think someone pulled a Homecoming prank and greased the footballs that they used in the first half. Never seen so many fumbles and muffs especially on perfect night for football and by two good teams this late in the season. Wood’s first TD was on a kickoff runback that was complements of complete LaSalle special teams breakdown. Never should have scored on that return. Then on the last play of the half, LaSalle’s best offensive player and RB, Sam Brown gets a leg injury and does not return the rest of the game. A LaSalle blocked xtra point in OT sealed the deal. Not the best effort by LaSalle, and Wood maybe being a young team are starting to find their groove. Their defense did play well.

    Wood’s first half of their playoff run is about as easy as it can get. Ryan (who they crushed earlier in the year), a Bye (or vice versa, a bye then Ryan) then the PPL 5A champ. Then it is the D2-D6-, etc. survivor. Guessing Oil City or Southern Lehigh. NW PA didn’t have the highest of praise for Oil City, and I’m not too familiar with SoLeHi, so let me know your thoughts on those potential match-up’s with Wood. A new face to take on the WPIAL 5A champ this year??

  971. JC says:

    @Santa: Laughable take. SJP beats SoCo fairly handily. There’s a bunch of other high-ranked 6A teams and Cathedral Prep who the Tigers would give a good game, but would still have a tough time beating.

  972. Chief Red Raider says:

    No wonder most people stop believing in Santa at a young age 🙂

  973. Santa says:

    Your wrong Dennis pascoe. There’s no team in the state of pa in any class that would beat them. Not even close. In fact I’m sure they wouldn’t even have to throw the ball to do it.

  974. KevinX /Phillyboy I says:

    Hey Jeff H, I don’t think Wood gets to the semi-finals this year. They have a very young team and may be a force again soon enough. KevinX I agree with you on the NG/PJP matchup. It should be a good one with lots of scoring,

  975. Dennis Pascoe says:

    All this talk about Southern. I have been following H.S.football for 50+ years and I have seen alot of good teams but this team is actually fun to watch. This is by far the best team to come out of Southern period! Any high school football fan should not miss the chance to see this team. Can they be beaten OF COURSE they can I can think of 7 teams at least. But like they say ” Not bad for a small school in between two cornfields “

  976. D3 Mike says:

    @Jeff short version: District 3 overweights opponents win percentage in the power ranking formula.

    They share 7 common opponents (league play plus Central Dauphin). Of the 3 slots they don’t share, MT played CD East (3-6), Dallastown (2-7), and Cocalico (7-2) while Wilson played Governor Mifflin (6-3), Spring Ford (7-2), and Manheim Central (7-2). So, despite being in the same league Wilson actually comes out much higher on opponents win percentage. And as I said, the current system overweights that factor too much, IMO… but you asked for an explanation, not a defense, so there’s your explanation lol. The long explanation gets into the opponent class adjustment but it’s not really needed here. Basically the seeding is flipped because Dallastown won 2 games and Spring Ford won 7 games this year. Stupid, I know.

    Also, D3 calculates all opponents prior to the season starting so Wilson’s game on Friday vs. 0-10 McCaskey will have zero impact on the calculation (other than McCaskey not getting a win this week). If all of the favorites win, the current seedings will hold, and MT will have to play Central Dauphin in the semifinals and travel to Wilson for the district finals.

  977. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – from the accounts I read it was more a matter of LaSalle beating themselves than Wood playing well, I still don’t think they are on the level of the WPIAL this year and if Wood makes it to the semi-finals would expect the WPIAL team to beat them by a couple of scores. Very intriguing seedings coming up for 5A in the WPIAL, appears Penn-Trafford, Penn Hills and Moon will be the top 3 seeds, with Gateway/Peters Township seeded #4 and #5, which means 2 of the best teams will be meeting in the quarterfinals. I know PennLive has Penn Hills ranked #3 in the state, that’s more on their reputation that what they’ve done on the field, they play in a very weak conference and I don’t think they are the third best team in the WPIAL let alone the state, they will likely have a quarterfinal match-up with McKeesport and I could definitely see them losing that game.

    @Mcd65 – mostly agree with you about Southern Columbia, they would dominate all of 3A, I don’t think there’s a team in the state in 3A that can come within 3 TD’s of them this year, would likely beat everyone in 4A with the possible exception of Erie Prep and perhaps TJ, and would do the same in 5A, but I do think there are several 6A teams that would beat them. In addition to SJP I would favor Manheim Township and Coatesville, and perhaps Wilson, CD and Dwest as well, I do think they would have a chance against any of the top 3 WPIAL 6A teams this year, IMO they are one of the top 10 teams in the state, but top 5 is probably a bit of a stretch.

  978. Jeff H says:

    Can one of your D3 guys please explain how 8-1 Wilson is now ahead of 9-0 MT in the power rankings, MT of course beat them earlier in the season, are undefeated and have a similar strength of schedule, although Wilson does have a slight edge there according to the MaxPreps SOS ratings. There is a flaw in the ranking system if it has Wilson ahead of MT, big implications for the playoffs, whoever is seeded #2 likely has to play red hot CD in the semi-finals, and if the seeds hold Wilson gets to host MT for the championship…certainly seems like MT is getting a raw deal, both teams will win easily this week any chance that can change?

  979. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    I had the second week of November circled on my calendar for some time now, not for the SJP/LaSalle re-match (which may not even happen, RC is finding their mojo), but for a N-G/PJPII match-up. Hope PJPII can beat S-F Friday to possibly get the #1 seed so they can host that game. Really don’t want to go down to South Philly.

  980. Santa says:

    My elves and I have been doing some digging and we came up with some fun facts about the tigers. If you win a pjw championship in wrestling you stand a 83 percent better chance of ending up at southern by the 9th grade. Nobody knows like Santa knows.

  981. Mcd65 says:

    Neuman/Gorretti AAA is 9-0 but not ranked in the Eastern top 5 . They are a pretty explosive team and should make some noise in the playoffs.

  982. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin X , LOL public enemy @1 . IMO you make a lot of very accurate comments and also imo Southern Columbia is certainly one of the best coached teams in the state. They have some great D-1 talent that will definitely run away with AA again with out breaking a sweat. I really enjoy watching them. Now !!! A more accurate assessment of their strength vs. others in the state would be that they would beat all of A ,all ofAA most likely all but maybe 1 in AAA , all but maybe 1 or 2 in AAAA and the same in AAAAA. 6 A would provide my guess about 8 teams that could beat SC.This in NO way is a negative to SC just my opinion . So Kevin.guess who is public enemy @1 now. LOL.This is high school football we are discussing not global warming.

  983. D3 Mike says:

    Of note, Born Power Index just moved Southern Columbia past St. Joe’s Prep and also has Manheim Township within a field goal. Not that I buy that it’s THAT close, but BPI is usually a pretty decent indicator this late in the season.

    I feel like I’m getting trolled over Manheim Central. If so, well done. If they are truly the #1 team in 5A in Eastern-PA, we might as well buy advanced tickets for the WPIAL-5A final to get our 5A entertainment fix. They are obviously playing better than they did in September but they are also just as likely to lose in the district semi-finals as they are to make it to Hershey this year.

  984. ColonialFan says:


    No, the PIAA does not prohibit playing up or down 2 classes. Just looking at the Colonial League you have Southern Lehigh at 5A playing Palmerton and Catasauqua at 2A. So it happens. This is also part of the reason for the scheduling merger with the Schuylkill League to avoid these type of match ups.

  985. mark d says:

    Remember Southern plays in a conference so either they go and play independent or they have to abide by the conference Schedule.Like mike said it not like they have a lot of open weeks that they can fill at a whim, if they start to schedule other schools out side the conference that changes the schedule for all the other schools in the conference.If they decide to play independent then that a whole other nut to crack traveling expense and so on .If Berwick had a super team should it blow off the teams in the Wyoming conference to go play AAAAAA team across the state it make no sense

  986. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Not sure what you mean. But Roman Catholic (6A) played both PJPII and CEC, both 3A schools earlier in the year. SCA does already play 4A schools. What I understand, SCA is bound by their conference (PA Heartland) to only play other PA Heartland schools. Obviously tho they had two exceptions this year.

    Or do you mean voluntarily “playing up” in classification?? You can’t “play down” as far as I know, and I believe Aliquippa out west is a Single A school by enrollment, but is playing up in 3A.

  987. Kevin X says:

    Boy, looks like I just made myself Public Enemy Number 1 in this forum!!!

    Funny, you guys touched on a few ancillary issues that I’ve been wanting to bring up, so maybe later for those.

    “Play someone” is actually a complement, albeit maybe somewhat backhanded. No offense to the Hammond School (not going to rehash my prior post back in August, feel free to drill down or do your own homework), or WA and Montoursville (both nice D2 and D4 schools respectively, but one or the other, assuming it is one of them, will be smoked in the 3A state semi’s), but like Matt said, I would love to see them take on the likes of a State College, ECP, top their WPIAL team, Imhotep, Malvern Prep or gulp, a SJP. What all these teams have in common, is that they aren’t restricted by silly district or league scheduling requirements (that I am aware of) (WPIAL teams can play one non WPIAL game correct??), or teams (D1 and D3) that get their undergarments in bunches over chasing playoff rating points. Here’s a shocker, I believe SCA can beat all of those teams with the exception of Prep, but still maybe give Prep the best game of anyone in the state. I just want to witness it. I just want to see how good they really are. Betting Coach Roth and the SCA players wouldn’t mind one chance at one of these teams. Never know until you play.

  988. New2PA says:

    Aliquippa is 1A and has played 3A for the past several years.

  989. NW PA says:

    Southern Columbia would beat nearly every team in the state minus a couple 5A and 6A teams. Erie Cathedral, TEP, TJ may be able to keep in close. Also I’m not sure why the Patriot has Oil City 5th in 5A. They are a good team but they are not a top 10 team. They play up to avoid Cathedral. They have a very weak schedule.

  990. Brian says:

    I forgot to have Hammond in there from South Carolina. They classified as 3A there, not sure what class they would be there. Either way a quality opponent.

  991. Brian says:

    Southern has played a few 4A schools in the regular season. (Jersey Shore Selinsgrove) They’ve played 5 AAA ( central columbia, shamokin, Montoursville, Wyoming area, and Danville next week). One AA in mount Carmel. One A in south Williamsport. The overall record of their opponents is going to be about 66-34 with guessing week 10 games. That’s a pretty challenging schedule. All 10 will make playoffs. 8 of the 10 will be at least 6-4 or better. I think only one will be below .500

  992. Buddy says:

    @ et al

    Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t the PIAA prohibit playing up 2 classes or down 2 classes?

    i.e. SC can’t play 4A schools, just like North Penn can’t play 4A schools.

    That being the case, SC should schedule as many 3A schools as their schedule allows.

    And if they are, then kudos to them. Input?

  993. D3 Mike says:

    Southern Columbia is a historically good small-school team. I don’t think they could have scheduled any better than they did this year. They would mercy rule any team in any class within a 2-hour drive IMO. I also think people forget that it takes two to tango: I applaud Wyoming for even agreeing to that game – but not everyone will do that. And these schedules are set years in advance so it’s not like a Dallas or a Valley View has gaps they can just fill-in on a whim. If there is any criticism (and I’m not saying he should have done this, but he could have) I guess it’s that Roth knows talent when he sees it and they could have safely classed up for the 2018-2019 cycle. I think they would have probably won 3A and made the 4A final last year – this year they could probably win every class through 5A.

    As a scheduling sidenote, Berks Catholic isn’t half the program of the true 4A powers, let alone Southern Columbia, and their AD just said they’ve already had FORTY teams decline to add them to the 2020-2021 cycle. They have 5 non-league slots and so far they’ve only managed 3 takers: Roman Catholic, Central Dauphin, and Malvern Prep. Granted, they’re a non-boundary school with all of that associated baggage but for a borderline 3A program those are basically 3 mercy rule losses already baked into next year’s schedule. The point is I think most coaches and ADs really do want competitive games and hate lopsided games (that go in EITHER direction), but it’s hard to turn that balanced scheduling wish into a reality.

  994. Matt says:

    @Kevin X….really? Coming from a d11 fan and not a Southern fan but respects them, they play the right way. I have seen them play over the years…..mostly in playoffs and state title games. They have backups in by halftime. It’s that third backups would mercy rule most of these teams. And the schedule they played is probably the most difficult they could schedule…..a good Hammond team with D1 talent on the road to begin season. Then they play their rival in MCA (who is top 10 in AA) who usually gives them a tough game and wins 48-0. Then they schedule a Wyoming Area that is 3rd in AAA in state at the time and win 42-0. They could have just played third conference game and won 100-0. Then they play the 5th ranked in AAA Montoursville team and win 35-0. That’s 2 ranked AAA teams, a AA ranked team and a team in SC that won back to back state titles in AAA. What more do you want from them? I would pay money to see them play a ranked AAAA, AAAAA, or AAAAAA school. They might not win all of them but they would play well. That first game on ESPN I have never seen a HS that disciplined and execute perfect tackling. You want to watch a fundamentally sound team and a team that plays together and has pride playing for third small town? Watch Southern play. Most of the state respects them maybe it’s time you do as well.

  995. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ Kevin X I have thought about who could give Southern a game up here in the N.E. in all 6 classes without traveling 50+ miles. One team comes to mind Dallas way up on the turnpike could give them a game. Roth will not run up a score but you need to have your starters to play at least a half which he will. I believe this Friday they will play less then a half to rest the starters. But again if you know Roth and I have been following Southern a long time he will not run up a score and the comes from a Dunmore Bucks fan.

  996. mark d says:

    @D3 mike Dallas has a very quick and athletic fronts solid passing game and a very hard running tail back..I think they can be passed on .Berwick was in the game and gave it away with turn overs, i think they will meet again. Valley View look likes a tired beat up team if they don.t get healthy i don.t see them going far in the playoff.I really don,t see therm getting passed Dallas or Berwick ..

  997. Brian says:

    Hey Kevin, Go to their games and watch them and you’ll see it’s not running up the score. Subs are in at the 35-0 to 42-0 mark and the back ups are scoring on the other teams starters on just regular run plays. Roth does things the right way anybody who disagrees is clueless or just jealous of the program. How about they just beat the #3 team in AAA in back to back weeks (Wyoming and Montoursville) and did it with shutouts. Oh week 1 they went to south Carolina and beat a 15 time state champ (Hammond) there in their backyard. They also beat maybe the 2nd best team in class AA ( mt. Carmel) in week 2 and will probably play them again. Oh they also beat more than likely the district champ in class 4A (Jersey Shore). Sounds like they played some pretty good teams.

  998. Kevin X says:

    OK, very premature, but still something to mess around with, the Kyle Berger projected D1 6A seedings (he does the power ratings for D1), I’m assuming if chalk holds, for the playoffs. One bizarre scenerio has, IF DTE beats C’Ville on Friday, C’ville drops to #8, and I’m then assuming North Penn gets to take a little road trip out to the “Ville for a first round game, and then continues with a possible C’ville at DTW QUARTER final re-match. Ok, lots off football still to be played next weekend, but something to kick around……

    District One 6A projections:
    1. Downingtown West
    2. CB West
    3. Coatesville
    4. Garnet Valley*
    5. Souderton
    6. Spring-Ford
    7. Abington
    8. P-W
    9. North Penn
    10. Downingtown East
    11. Haverford
    12. Perk Valley
    13. OJR*
    14. Ridley
    15. CB South
    16. CB East
    *tiebreak winner

  999. L-L fan says:

    D3 Mike Don’t be surprised if either cocalico or central or both pass shippensburg after week 10 5A rankings….here’s a stat for you: shippenburg’s opponents weighted win % is the LOWEST among all 28 5A teams…..they’re hanging on to number one spot , but barely…….they will have to prove they are better than their schedule when playoffs roll around

  1000. Kevin X says:

    76-0, 62-0, 62-0 and 76-6 in consecutive weeks, not running up the scores and shows respect for his opponents??? Please, give me a break. Better, yet, play someone.

  1001. Mike A says:

    @D3 Mike
    Wilson and Manheim Township are very close in the ratings (0.832914 to 0.831563). Wilson plays McCaskey who is winless while Manheim Township plays Hempfield (4 wins). With both teams picking up points from other teams Wilson will pick up little this week from McCaskey while Township should win easily and have the win over Hempfield (currently 8th in 6A seeding) count more towards their rating. I expect Manheim Township to regain the #1 seed although it will still be very close and may depend on the results of some of the other teams each team has faced. It will also be interesting to see if Chambersburg or Red Lion can move into the 7th or 8th seed if, or more likely when, Hempfield loses to ManheimTownship. Both Chambersburg and Red Lion are close to Hempfield in the ratings. I think CV, currently the 7th seed, is far enough ahead of both teams even if they lose to State College. How in the world did Chambersburg lose to Red Lion? They have played powerhouses like State College (L 27-17), Central Dauphin (L 28-23), and Harrisburg (L 27-25) tough while pulling away from Cumberland Valley late. Red Lion is a very average team by my observations who has played a weak schedule. They were demolished by an 8-1 Central York team (a team Cumberland Valley beat) 59-7 and lost to a 3 win South Western team 17-14 and New Oxford 17-0 an 8 seed 5A qualifier. Were there injuries for Chambersburg (plays Carlisle next week) when they played Red Lion (plays Dallastown next week) or was it just an ugly game. They are way too good to lose to Red Lion.

  1002. Buddy says:

    Wait! I got that all wrong don’t I ?

    If NP winds up 10th seed, they would play the 7th seed right?

    Damn! I was hoping for CB West! Oh well. As it stands now ( sure it will change), it be Springford.

    Seen Springford play, those boys must be corn-fed! That is one big team.

    Too much conjecture right! Gotta simply wait another week.

  1003. Buddy says:

    As it stands now, NP is 10th seed, which means they would play #2 seed, which is CB West.

    That is exactly what I want! Of course, with one more game, that most likely won’t stand.

    My 2nd choice would be CB South ( see the pattern here, yes, it’s the revenge factor! )

    Don’t think the latter is possible in 1st round. Both will probably be bottom bracket.

    BTW, there’s some really good matchups for the last week that will dramatically effect the seedings.

    That’s just good scheduling!

  1004. D3 Mike says:

    And to follow up on the power ranking formula discussion, Wilson just moved ahead of Manheim Township in D3-6A despite the fact that they lost to MT and play in the same league. I get rewarding teams for difficult schedules but this shows that opponents’ record is just too heavily weighted in the current formula. FWIW, Wilson’s 4 non-league opponents are all undefeated in league play which is crazy if you think about it.

    As it stands, MT would play Cumberland Valley, Central Dauphin and at Wilson – which own a combined 23 district and 2 state titles between them. If they make it through that to play the D1 winner they definitely will have earned the trip.

    I’m guessing after this weekend that Coatesville is back to being the slight favorite to come out of D1?

  1005. Brisn says:

    Lol Santa. Nothing wrong with the offense. Roth could’ve chose to score another time before half and make it 35-0 at half. He just ran some basic runs and ran out the clock. My guess is that he wants his starters playing longer in the 2nd half since playoffs are around the corner. Roth also took the starters out at the end of the 3rd with the ball on Montoursville 14. The backups couldn’t score so it could’ve been 49-0 if Roth wanted to score more but he doesn’t run up scores and shows respect for his opponents.

  1006. D3 Mike says:

    Considering that 6A is basically a moot point (at least at the state level) the two results last night that intrigued me were Wood over LaSalle and Dallas over Berwick.

    Does this put Archbishop Wood back up there with the WPIAL teams? And how does Dallas look compared to the Valley View squads from the past few years?

  1007. Kevin X says:

    Santa hitting the egg nog hard, and waaaaaay too early…….

  1008. Santa says:

    Any picks on who would win between southern and psu. My pick is southern. I’m guessing psu would be 1st and goal from the 1 ft line to win the game. Any takers on what would happen next. Nevermind Santa will fill you in. Franklin would have his qb in shotgun at the 1 ft line and get stopped 4 straight plays instead of qb sneaking from under center. My pick southern 12-7 over psu

  1009. Santa says:

    35-0 southern over montoursville. Anyone make this game to see what exactly went on last night. Up at the North Pole Santa and my elves are scratching our heads. Now I see the defense has sured things up after a couple tough weeks of giving up 20. Let’s talk offense though. What exactly is going on southern is only averaging 38.5 points per game the last 2 games. Any input anyone who maybe made the last 2 games. Are people injured or ineligible. Please send Santa some info on the offensive woes going on in southern

  1010. Uncle T says:

    What a Friday night in southeastern PA.

    I don’t understand how Dapree Bryant is not more heavily recruited. That kid is magic- he’s got a bit of KJ Hamler in him, plays with an edge, and could be a steal for Villanova in a couple of years. Penn State of all teams should have been in on him more as a Hamler-esque replacement in waiting (not saying he’s as good as KJ, just a very similar style with room to grow). I’ll be pulling for him to have a great career in FCS.

    Love seeing the new crop of teams take over the SOL this year, though North Penn is still going to be a handful for whoever gets matched up with them.
    Garnet Valley has their typical 4-5 running backs who will be fresh for 4 quarters. I’d love to see them and DTown East play.
    A Coatesville/D-Town West rematch seems like a pretty safe bet.
    Wood is alive.

    Bring on the playoffs.

  1011. Buddy says:

    I was at the Springford/ Perk Valley game. There’s another result I didn’t expect!

    NP last game is at Crawford. Maybe the last game ever at Crawford.

    I’m assuming ( or actually hoping) NP had some key players out against CBS.

    Probably not though. Will be a rough playoff trek for my ol alma mater!

  1012. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Spring-Ford and Perk Valley was another very good one in D1 tonight!!!

    NP should be fine next week, unless the former Wood RB, Santiago (?), runs wild against them. I’m assuming that game will be at Crawford??

  1013. Buddy says:

    Well, how wrong can one be!

    C’ville over DTW ! Souderton over CB West in OT!

    NP loses by one point ( again) to CB South!

    Wood over LaSalle in OT! Am I missing any?

    This is why they play the games! Actually, this is good for football. It can get too predictable.

    My team ( I’m sure you know who that is by now), will be in the bottom bracket at playoffs now.

    And if they lose their last game, won’t be in the playoffs at all!

  1014. Kevin X says:

    Buddy Buddy, what is you definition of close?? A double OT Soudy victory complements of a partially blocked Xtra point that doinked off the crossbar back into the end zone that was ultimately the deciding point?? Can’t get much closer that that in my book!!! Jus’ messing’ with ya my friend 🙂 Awesome game in Franconia Twsp. this evening. Some great games it appears across D1 tonight as well.

  1015. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville wins 29-21. Great game — watch it on the archive. It’s all about speed and a good QB. Ricky still looks like he’s not 100% (IMO), but he played well. I thought their play calling was better, but not sure why they didn’t let their running backs play more. Still some dumb penalties that almost cost them the game, but pretty disciplined overall.

  1016. Jay says:

    I’m sitting on the Coatesville side but I predict a 10-14 point Dtown win and not a very high scoring affair. Something like 31-21, not a barn burner. Hopefully the Raiders prove me wrong, but this may be the best West team I’ve seen in a decade.

  1017. Buddy says:

    The local radio station ( WNPV) is hyping up the CBW/ Souderton tilt. Undefeated vs 1 loss. It won’t even be close.

    DTW / C’ville won’t really be close either. DTE/ C’ville will be a much better game next week.

    Poor C’ville has both those games away. Can’t wait for the seedings and playoffs!

  1018. Kevin X says:

    One more streaming option for you guys this evening……..LaSalle @ Wood.

    This could be a good game to see how good, or not so good, Wood is this year. Hard to gauge them with their early non PIAA schedule. Then they loose to Roman. They beat Ryan as expected (who they’ll meet again in the D12/PCL 5A playoffs, if you actually want to call it the playoffs) and loose to SJP, as expected. Same with LaSalle, are they really the second best team in the state of PA!!!, or just another very good 6A school (who isn’t going anywhere past the second weekend of November regardless). The intrigue………..

    (The game will be archived, so can always catch it at some other point on YouTube). Thank you Bob Long!!!!!!


  1019. Foleman says:

    4th and Long, Kutztown has a coop with Brandywine HS which moves them up to 3A, It’s too bad that they can only get about 20 kids out for the football team with a 3A classification. Fleetwood also has coop with Oley Valley HS which moves them up to the 4A classification. Conrad Weiser decided not to enter into a Coop with Antitiem HS which does not have football because it would put them up to a 5A classification

  1020. Kevin X says:

    Tonight’s Coatesville @ Downingtown West is video streaming via:


    or (same stream, different access)


  1021. Jeff H. says:

    Who do you D1 guys like in the big match-up tonight between Coatesville-Dwest? I am expecting a high scoring game and will take Dwest 42-35, but I think this game could go either way and would not be surprised if Coatesville wins.

    Not many big time games in the WPIAL this weekend, all the 6A powers play weaker opponents and none will be challenged, best game, or at least the one with the most playoff implications is in 5A between Peters Township and Bethel Park, both are tied with Moon for the conference lead at 4-1, loser of this game is more than likely eliminated from the conference race, both have already clinched playoff spots. Peters crushed them last year 35-0, I like Peters tonight but expect this game to be much closer, something like 27-21.

    Any big games of note in other districts this weekend?

  1022. 4th and Long says:

    I was perusing the PIAA football classifications and there are a handful of schools that are larger than programs in a lower class or smaller than programs in a higher class. I’m not talking about powerhouse programs that choose to play above their enrollment like Aliquippa or Imhotep, I’m talking about schools like Kutztown and School of the Future, who obviously don’t choose to play up. Is that due to them encompassing Vo-Tech or other schools in the same district without their own programs, or are there regional adjustments made for travel/conference/district alignment considerations? I’ve seen that done in other states where a team might be moved up or down for geographic considerations. Neither explanation makes sense in the case of SOF, but might explain Kutztown being 3A. Anyone have any insight into this?

  1023. Jeff H. says:

    @NWPA – WPIAL scheduled the Central Valley-TJ game, they played them last yr as well, it was a 2yr home and home, the only game WPIAL teams have the flexibility to schedule their own opponent is week 0, and as you stated they scheduled Cannon Mac. I think they would have been better served by scheduling a big time 5A or 6A program, they should have tried to schedule Cannon Mac’s neighbor Peters Township, that would have been a much bigger test for them. I agree with you this is the best TJ team in the last several years and think the game with ECP will be pretty competitive, but still think ECP will win by a couple of scores, I’m hoping the game is in the Pittsburgh area this year so I can attend, was at the game at Baldwin in 2016 which was closer than the final score would indicate.

  1024. Jeff H. says:

    @ Buddy – completely agree with you, I said 3 years ago the PIAA should have gone to 5 classes and not 6, I do think there was a need to create another class, because there was too much disparity in size between the smaller and larger 4A schools, there were 4 classes from 1980-2015, so it was time to add another class, but 2 was a step too far IMO, and it’s certainly had some unintended consequences.

    @D3 Mike – WPIAL is still upset they can’t hold all their championships on the same day at Heinz Field, many in the WPIAL view that as more important than the state playoffs, I don’t agree with that sentiment, but that’s how a lot of old timers feel around here. I agree the WPIAL is still in the dark ages when it comes to conference alignments, and they need to make some changes for the benefit of everyone and appears they are finally seeing the light, but I don’t know why that means they have to crown 5 champions instead of 6 like they’re discussing.

    WPIAL 4A is pretty weak, there are 2 very good programs in TJ and South Fayette and that’s about it, so TJ is still going to win 9-10 games/year unless they put them in a conference with a bunch of really good 5A teams, and even then they would still win their fair share of games.

  1025. NW PA says:

    I give TJ credit for scheduling Central Valley this year. The WPIAL kills a lot of good teams by not allowing them to schedule non conference games. Look at Erie Cathedral’s schedule last year and this year. They were battle tested for the playoffs last year and I expect the same this year. Not sure why TJ went with Cannon Mac this year, not really a challenging game. None the less don’t count them out this year they are loaded and will give Erie Cathedral a great game.

  1026. Kevin X says:

    Bottom line, I believe, is that the Districts and PIAA all want their respected cakes and eat them too. Districts want their district playoffs and be able to crown multiple champions, then they want their teams to go onto to state honors, and the PIAA wants to stage a stateside championship to to crown their own champions. It’s an exercise of putting the square peg in a round hole. This all consists of way too many teams and too many weeks of play/games involving a sport like football, at least on the high school level.

    @ Buddy, you may see 7 classifications (a “Super 7” level/classification for the largest schools and best teams) before going down to 5 classifications, or even back to 4.

  1027. Buddy says:

    Why did we have to jump from 4 classes to 6 ? Was 5 classes ever considered?

    It depleted some classes so much ( Class 5 for instance), that they can’t field representative playoff teams.

    Can one lobby the PIAA to drop down to 5 ? We ( or the AD’s in the high schools) should present this to the PIAA.

  1028. Racer X says:

    SoCo’s Julian Fleming named #1 recruit in nation by ESPN. Congratulations.

  1029. 4th and Long says:

    Pennsylvania is the fifth state I’ve lived and the PIAA is the weakest governing body I’ve come across. HS athletics here are a disorganized mess on so many levels and football is the worst. The districts have way too much leeway in a variety of issues and the mixing of teams in different classifications within conferences is out of control. Too many teams make the district playoffs. The playoffs here should be over in four rounds from the end of the regular season to Hershey. That’s enough to get every legitimate district/league champion in along with some deserving at large teams.

  1030. D3 Mike says:

    Yeah, I read that Mike White article, Jeff. Pretty confusing, TBH. I don’t understand why you have to create a 4 or 5 class system just to group programs geographically? Everyone else in the state manages to do it without injecting the extra complication of a parallel class system.

    And especially now – I have no idea why everyone is still so concerned with the class of the teams they are playing, their league, home and homes, opponent win percentage, etc. It’s not 1993 when only 16 teams made districts and 16 made states – in all classes! Go 6-4 now (if not worse) and you’re in districts almost everywhere, so who cares if you’re a 3A school playing in a mostly 4A league? And if you’re all that worried about playoff seeding, frankly, you’re probably not good enough anyways. Not to mention with 6 classes what’s the real difference between two classes? 30 boys per grade? It’s all over-engineered IMO.

    Really the hardest part for the WPIAL will be to come up with another system that can guarantee TJ a 9+ win regular season each year :/

  1031. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – ironically there was a big article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette online yesterday about the WPIAL making some significant changes with their conference alignments and playoff format. WPIAL has always only had teams of the same classification in the same conference, which I think is unique across the state, but the move to 6 classes has eliminated many natural rivalries as a result, and there are schools traveling 90+ minutes each way for games due to grouping teams by classification, you’ve got Uniontown and California in the south going to play New Castle and Laurel and other teams an hour north of Pittsburgh. The end result has been a substantial drop in attendance at many schools. The new talk is going to 5 classes, and grouping teams by area and not classification, so there would be teams from different classifications in the same conference, and as a byproduct would have to go to some type of points system like Gardner for determining playoff qualifiers. Would still send 6 teams to states, but probably combine 5A and 6A, as there are only 9 6A teams in the WPIAL now. Will be interesting to see what happens but appears there is growing consensus among coaches and AD’s that there needs to be some significant changes in this new landscape of 6 classes.

  1032. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    I have had several post season/playoff scenarios floating around in my head at any giving time, from minor tweaks to total reorganization.

    I do like your proposal of not allowing any sub .500 team in the post season playoffs. I’d take it a few step further by throwing out there that any district playoff bracket must have a minimum pool of 8 schools in their respective classification to stage a playoff bracket (not an 8 team bracket, just 8 or more schools within a respective district classification). If a district has a classification with less than 8 schools, then they would need to find and form a subregional bracket.

  1033. mark d says:

    @kevin x the rating system in D2 is very simple if you work for NASA thier a bunch of factors and them you divide by something and multiply by something .Do what i do check it on here lol

  1034. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    I’m guessing then there is never any controversy or whining as far as how the seedings fall in D7, or who makes (or misses) the post season, correct?? Just kidding!! Here in D1, it is straight forward, yet I wouldn’t call it a real world common sense human eye test accurate system (but I guess when just about everyone gets in, except for in 6A, who cares, right??). But it is an easy peazy lemon squeezy no muss no fuss system that basically a 7th grader can do the math. Just looking around the rest of the east districts and their systems, yikes, just on the surface looking at all the columns and abbreviations, you need a PhD in mathematics from MIT to figure it out. I’m guessing tho its not that complicated, just looks intimidating at an initial glance.

    Anybody know if the rating systems for D2, D3, D4 and D11 are the same??

  1035. Kevin X says:

    I’ll go with West Chester East in D1 5A. They do have a potentially tough, inter school district rivalry game down at WC Rustin Friday, call it the undercard game in Ches-Mont football this weekend, so I think that will be a nice test for them as far as butting heads with other 5A schools. Their only two losses this year have been to the two Downingtowns, so no shame in that.

  1036. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you about Warwick, I’ve been high on them all year, I still think they are the best 5A team in D3, and probably better than any of the teams in D1, do they have a chance to move up at all in the power rankings the last 2 weeks and thus get a better seed? Speaking of rankings, I see this website has MC as the #3 team in the east, and Warwick not rated, how do you have teams with the same 6-2 record but the team that lost by 30 points to the other team is ranked and they are not? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

    Interesting that the other districts strictly use the power points to seed their teams, the WPIAL has a committee that does all the seeding, with strength of schedule taken into account, so a team like Warwick with 2 loses to 2 really good 6A teams might be seeded higher than say a team like Shippensburg who is undefeated but played a weak schedule. As far as WPIAL 5A Penn Trafford is the team to beat, they are the best program in the WPIAL never to win a district title, having lost in the finals several times, most recently 2 yrs ago to Gateway in 5A, and 4 yrs ago to Central Catholic in 4A when Central went on to win the state title over Parkland. Gateway is very good and so is Peters Township, they lost to a solid Moon team 2 weeks ago on the road and in typical Penn Live fashion they dropped them all the way out of the rankings…I can guarantee you Peters is a top 10 team in the state in 5A, suspect they will at least make the semi-finals like last year when they gave Penn Hills all they could handle. There are a lot of other very solid teams in the WPIAL in 5A but I would be very surprised if the champ is not one of these 3, could be a rematch of 2017, and the script could play out the same, Penn Trafford beats up Gateway in the regular season but loses to them in the district final.

  1037. Uncle T says:

    I see this playoff debate from both sides.

    D1 5A has a realistic chance of having a 2-8 team as its 16 seed this year. 2 and 8, for the chance to get waxed off the field by the 1 seed who will be risking injuries. How about a PIAA statewide rule that a team must be at least .500 to qualify for postseason play, and if any sub .500 team happens to qualify via points, their would-be opponent then gets a bye?

    On the other hand, some of these bottom tier teams could really use any extra selling points they can get to boost numbers for their programs. It’s easy for us to see it as fools gold, but a 14-18 year old can see the chance to play on the bigger stage as something achievable. They may be better off for it too, to give themselves and their friends a chance to pull off a miracle-on-dirt or 2.

  1038. D3 Mike says:

    You’re definitely right about the WPIAL winner being the statewide favorites in 5A. FWIW, the team probably coming out of District 3 this year (Warwick) will not only miss out on a Week 11 bye but they might be on the road for much of the district playoffs. That’s what happens when you make enemies in the league office and get Manheim Township and Wilson back-to-back in October as a 5A. Despite the hit to their power rankings, though, Warwick still has the best chance to get to Hershey out of anyone in D3, in any class, IMO. I’ve seen them live once and on TV a second time and have been impressed by their physicality compared to past years.

    Speaking of Hershey, not sure if mentioned on the forums (I assume it was when it was announced in August) but due to cost constraints from renting the stadium, all District 3 championship final games will be played at the home site of the highest remaining seeded team for the first time this year. We’ve historically played finals at Hershey Stadium and it will definitely impact attendance considering the geographic size of the district.

    Curious whom everyone thinks will come out of the mess of teams in D7 and D1 in 5A at this point? Feel like we sometimes neglect the 5A talk.

  1039. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – agree about D3 being forced to take their “bye” in week 11 and not week 14, that at least makes an imperfect system a little bit fairer. Also agree with you about district playoffs taking less teams, the WPIAL is the same as D1 in wanting to take as many teams as possible, in WPIAL 5A 16 out of 23 make the playoffs, and there will be some really bad teams at 3-7 in the playoffs just so they could have a full 16 team bracket. Didn’t seem to hurt the champion last year when Penn Hills won the 5A state title, and in my opinion the winner of the WPIAL 5A this year is the favorite for the state title, but it’s ridiculous that several sub-500 teams make the district playoffs, seems to me it’s all about the money that can be made by having more playoff games than doing the right thing and giving top teams a week off before the playoff grind starts.

  1040. JC says:

    I was not at that game, so clearly I missed the general narrative behind it, but I don’t think it’s debatable that Imhotep is a bit weaker this year than in the past. They just haven’t been blowing out their PPL opponents like they have in past years. They’re still the best 4A team in the PPL (Having Ben Franklin and not Imhotep in the Team to Watch is, frankly, quite silly), but are more vulnerable this year than most if a team can bring it to them. My bet would be that the East finals are still Tep-Becahi in the end.

    Regardless, 2nd place is what they’re playing for, don’t see any of them having the horses to stay with Cathedral, much less win.

  1041. mark d says:

    Jc Kevin x is correct Valley View was never in the game last year and that score was 37 -9 not 19 I don’t think you need to worry about Valley View after the butt whooping Dallas laid on them >The Berwick Dallas game this week will tell us a lot on how good the AAAA teams are in D2

  1042. D3 Mike says:

    Re: Coatesville and Harrisburg, and as I stated last year when it was brought up on the forums, D3 should be required to hold it’s bye in week 11 and not allowed to have a week 14 bye. That’s my take. But beyond that, I’d suggest D1 take a page from D3 and arrange its playoffs in a more sensible fashion – and one that gives its top seeds a better chance to advance.

    Every district/region is given X weeks to conduct playoffs by the PIAA. D3 is given 4 weeks for 5A and 6A – the same as D1 (the former has 46 total teams, the latter 61 total teams). D3 chooses to send 8 of 18 to districts in 6A which sometimes means a 7-3 team in the district doesn’t make it. Oh well. Many other districts/regions send 9, 10, or even 12 in similar situations.

    I’d suggest D1-6A slim down to 14 teams. There is no need to send 6-4 (or even 5-5) 6A teams into districts just to get mercy ruled in week 11 by undefeated 1 and 2 seeds. Such a chance would reward a Coatesville (last year) or a CB / Downingtown this year with a much needed off week before the big push.

    Meanwhile, D1 and D3 both have exactly 28 teams in 5A. One gives its top seeds a bye in week 11. The other is actually going to have multiple 3-7 teams in the “playoffs” this year because it sends 16 into the district bracket. That’s crazy IMO, and that off week could make all of the difference for a Warwick or a Manheim Central (again) in the state semi-final.

    As I said, D3 should be required to hold the 6A bye in week 11 instead of week 14… but D1 should also accept responsibility for failing to help its own top programs advance as much as it could.

  1043. Chief Red Raider says:

    Does anyone have the scoop on Ricky Ortega’s injury? He looked pretty good tonight, but really didn’t run. If he’s 100%, the DTW game should be great. Conversely, if he can’t scramble or do his draws, not sure if C’ville can outgun DTW. Yet again, C’ville’s defense is playing well (1st team only gave up 3 point tonight).

  1044. Jeff H. says:

    @D3Mike – couldn’t agree with you more on all your points about 4A, that’s definitely the toughest class for a public school to win, we’ll see with the new enrollment who moves where, but appears that class might get a bit easier for a public in the next 2 yr cycle.

    Very impressive win for CD tonight over State College, I think D3 has the best group of 4 teams in 6A, better than top 4 in WPIAL, DI or any other district, should be one heck of a district playoff.

    @Kevin X – I think Becahi has the best chance to beat Imhotep this year, but then again you could have said that for the last 3 yrs, with Tep down a bit this could finally be the year.

  1045. Buddy says:

    One could sum up the game as follows:

    CB West : 0 turnovers
    North Penn: 3 turnovers

    ( Also missing 2 of the 4 extra points certainly hurt)

    I don’t really care about the loss per se, but NP might drop to bottom bracket in the seedings.

    First playoff game may not be at home ( wherever that might be!)

    Good chance they get knocked out 1st game.

  1046. Mike A says:

    Final: Central Dauphin 34 State College 13

  1047. Jay says:

    Kevin X,

    I can vouch for that site, I subscribed last year to catch the Texas playoffs, which go 2-3 weeks later than ours do. The actual finals aren’t available on NFHS though – Fox has the rights to them and it took blind luck for me to find a stream of the Duncanville-North Shore final.

    Also, great point from an earlier post about Harrisburg having a bye week the week before the state semifinal. No matter who you root for, you just can’t look at that and say it’s fair.

  1048. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    I don’t know if you were at that Imhotep/Valley View playoff game last November, but I was. If you were, you must have just gotten to the game at halftime. Imhotep basically from my seat, dominated that first half. It got a little chippy and sloppy in the second half, and Valley View had a few late scores to make the final score closer than the game actually was.

    I do agree with you that they are not as strong as in the past several years and that this would be the year to pick them off, be it Valley View, Dallas, Berwick or Becahi. But don’t let last week’s loss to Northeast fool you, as Northeast is a pretty good 6A team. Shame that Northeast and LaSalle are stuck in D12 and have to go thru SJP early in the playoffs. I’d be curious to see those two teams in for example the D1 6A playoffs to see how they would fair on a more level and competitive playing field. Another thing, Imhotep will sleepwalk to the PPL Championship, but maybe Bonner or Carroll (if fully healthy) can pull an upset in the D12 championship game before the D2 representative gets their chance. They are both having decent years. Bonner/Carroll meet Saturday, so that could be an intriguing game in itself.

  1049. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    You can maybe try the below web link for video streaming of tonight’s NP @ CBW game. It is not free, appears to be $10 a month charge with a reoccurring fee. So just be careful if you sign up and know how to cancel after a month if you desire to stop access. I’ve never used it, so can’t vouch for the quality or anything else about it. Maybe others can lend some feedback and reviews of the site. I myself do plan on attending the game in person tonight. I agree with Mcd65 that the PCN game is going to be basically worthless. Also a shame that the 3CTV game is not DTW @ WCE, but Shanahan and C’Ville. It is a PCN direct production, as opposed to most of their broadcasts which are just feeds from local broadcasters, so too bad they couldn’t re-route their truck to Doylestown tonight instead of Chester. I’d much rather spend a Friday evening in Doylestown versus Chester that’s for sure.


  1050. Mike Smoll says:

    CBW runs a version of the old Delaware Wing T, which is very difficult to defend, it will require North Penn to play a very disciplined defense, I think a lot like the Souderton game, North Penn’s depth will wear CBW down. If CBW stays healthy throughout the game, it will come down to the 4th qtr, which I see going North Penn’s way. Being the game is at War Memorial in Doylestown, I see this as a 24-21 hard earned North Penn victory.

  1051. mark d says:

    more worried about getting threw tonight with Valley View. Dallas is a very good football team and Valley View is banged up we lost out 2 best receivers.we probably move our guard out to tight end which will bring a sophomore in the play guard. Tackle got a sour knee and i not sure why the coach is playing a freshman at safety.No i going to worry about Dallas.Dallas, Berwick and Valley View are going to see each other in the playoff !!!

  1052. D3 Mike says:

    The problem for D2 (and for the WPIAL to a lesser extent) is a lot of the district’s better public school programs sit in the same class (4A) that is loaded with non-boundary state powers. Berwick, Dallas, and Valley View hold 8 state titles between them – but none since 1997. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 4A has been filled – or is now filled – with the likes of Wood, ECP, ACC, BECA, McDevitt, and Imhotep in the years since. I haven’t done the math but the current 4A schools probably have the most state titles between them. It’s just a loaded class and to expect a Thomas Jefferson or a Dallas to play through some combination of three non-boundary schools to win a state title is just not very realistic (unfortunately). Every other class you basically have to beat St. Joe’s Prep or Wood – it’s 1 brutal non-boundary game but at least it’s not 3 brutal non-boundary games.

    I’m VERY interested to see how the balance-of-power changes between the classes next cycle, though. ECP should be moving up to 5A and I believe Berks Catholic, ACC, BECA, and McDevitt are all on the cusp of 3A based on enrollment. Even if just one of them moves down (and Southern Columbia moves up) it could both strengthen 3A and open 4A up a bit for traditional public schools again. That still doesn’t help with Imhotep but at least it would be a start.

    Also, news and notes from around D3:

    Wilson vs. Warwick tonight should be a good one. Warwick played Manheim Township a lot closer than the score last week would suggest… Call it: Wilson 21 – Warwick 20.

    Kutztown’s head coach was suspended for the rest of the season yesterday over a personnel dispute with the administration over assistant coaches. Recall that Kutztown hasn’t won a game since 2016 and has now given up an unbelievable 397 points in 6.5 games of largely mercy rule football (for the lazy, that’s 61 points per game allowed). Kutztown plays Wyomissing this weekend and Vegas has this one as 80/20 odds of being cut short at halftime…. Call it: Wyomissing 63 – Kutztown 0 (yep, definitely suspended at the half).

    Millersburg has forfeited its game this weekend due to a lack of players. They are currently in first place out of the three teams in D3-A. And yes, we do inexplicably still hold a district championship game. Millersburg may actually have to cancel the rest of the season due to safety concerns of playing underclassmen – if that happens, it would probably match up a 1-9 Fairfield squad vs. a 0-10 Halifax team for all the marbles. Imagine your only win of the season is a district title? Only in district 3.

  1053. JC says:

    Last year Valley View kept it a game against Imhotep, 37-19. If ever there was a year to break through for D2, it’d be this one, as Imhotep doesn’t look quite as good as years past. If it doesn’t happen this year, not sure if they’ll see a better chance anytime soon.

  1054. Mcd65 says:

    PCN game this week will be a blowout.Prep will roll Wood. Too bad CB West/North Penn couldn’t be the game.

  1055. mark d says:

    @ NWPA Valley View is a little better on Offence this year and a little worse on defense as for Dallas i have not seen play .History tell us teams from D2 don.t do well against urban all star teams so i see this year being no different

  1056. NW PA says:

    If anyone goes to the Valley View/Dallas game id love to know how both teams look. Is there a chance either team could get past Tep in the quarters? Even if they did could they get past Bechai? Maybe I’m thinking too far ahead. Let’s not forget that Berwick is still in the mix as well.

  1057. mark d says:

    Big game in D2 AAAA Valley View hosts Dallas third undefeated team Valley View take on in the last 3 weeks .Dallas still has Berwick but this game will go a long way in determining seeding,Should be a great match up !!!!

  1058. Mcd65 says:

    phiIllyboy/Buddy. West /NP should be a great contest.West has some offensive firepower this yearand that winged t is fun to watch.My 3 grandkids go to West and they tell me the school is really super excited for this one.The NBI will be packed prior to the game for sure. If Im feeling up to it Im going to make both and Budy is right about the parking even handicap. Go Bucks !!!!

  1059. D2 Jacob says:

    Glad to see the WA Vs. SCA game back on but I don’t think it will close. WA is very undisciplined and commit to many penalties to be competitive with disciplined teams. I saw a few of their games and I don’t think that have enough speed to make it close. If it is not a shut out I only think WA scores 6 points.

  1060. Brian says:

    Lol Santa. Is that sarcasm? 14 of the 20 points were 2nd/3rd team players. Starting defense gave up one td and that was last week. However on the td drive for jersey shore, 3 different times the defense was in position to make a tack low but slipped on the crappy field that jersey shore has and on the td they had an illegal pick play that wasn’t called. I will say jersey shoe did make some good adjustments in the 2nd quarter to get their touchdown. There’s nothing suspect about the defense.

  1061. Buddy says:

    You got that right phillyboy! Haven’t seen this kinda hype for this game in 20 years!

    NP’s top RB was taken out this past Fri., early 1st quarter.

    I believe possible concussion. If he isn’t cleared, good chance CB West wins.

    I hope he can play. That stadium will be rockin’! If you plan on goin’, parking at CB West is a bitch.

  1062. Santa says:

    Southerns defense has been suspect the last couple weeks giving up 20 points in the last 2 games. I’m not sure if they are content with things or kids are injured on defense. Going into week 8 with there defensive woes I’m going to make a prediction for the Wyoming area game. Santa predicts 77-20 southern. I believe there offense will pull through but southerns defense will continue to struggle. Look to see both Garcias to have 200 on the ground with just 14 carries combined between the 2. Fleming will have an off night with 180 receiving on 4 catches but will only score twice. Southern will look to go 8-0 on this one but needs work defensively if they want to compete for the district title. For any other predictions look us up at www. Ibelieveinsanta.com

  1063. phillyboy says:

    It’s deja vu all over again — 1999 is in the air,,,,feeling nostalgic for Napster, Y2K hype, pagers, Wawa 20 oz. coffee for 99 cents, Coke 12 packs for $2.99, Mayor John F. Street, oh yeah and phillyboy’s prime (huh-huh). And last but not least, CB West, baby. Say it ain’t so, are the Bucks really still undefeated this far into the season? It’s been a minute. Makes for a fun matchup with North Penn this weekend, Based on results of common opponents, CB West might be somewhat for real.

  1064. JC says:

    I don’t know if it w