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2019 Football Forum

Written by: on Monday, January 7th, 2019. Follow David Mika on Twitter.


Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2019 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

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856 Responses to “2019 Football Forum”

  1. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Jay, I think CD is a real good team, I just didn’t get the thought that either D1 team is in trouble and has no answers. I think every team is beatable at this point (even SJP). No doubt CD could beat either DTW or C’ville, but IMO I would give a bit of an edge to D1.

    By the way, what happened to the “They (SJP) will mercy rule everyone” mantra? I think some were even saying they would mercy rule everyone in the 1st half. 🙂 Hey Buddy, you might get to watch the championship game after all 🙂

  2. FrankG says:

    @ Phillyboy SJP weren’t resting McCord. He’s injured.

  3. Matt says:

    @Jay….I believe that was single A Clairton vs Bishop G game in 2014 or 15.

  4. phillyboy says:

    @ Jeff H — Have respect for TJ’s coach and what he has accomplished notwithstanding any “cherping” about all-star teams. Remember they crushed Wood in the state final back around ’08. That was when you could live stream the state finals for free on PCN. They must have hired a Wharton grad soon after because things changed abruptly; better have your credit card number ready going forward. Anyway, earlier in the year I was hoping McDowell might take out Erie Prep even though I didn’t believe it, for real for real. Dog gone it, if I were retired I might drive out there to see this one. If I knew TJ would win, heck, I might drive out now. But that’s a long, dark, cold and expensive trip especially if your team loses. Somebody was opining that this is one of TJ’s better teams in recent years. TJ needs to bring their total ‘A’ game like PR did against SJP a couple years back. They need to pack the house like it’s a Texas state final, you feel me?

    Also, was curious, how much is a ticket at the Steelers stadium for a WPIAL final? Do you get to see all games for one price? And do they charge for parking? Always respected how they play at the Steelers stadium for that, In my personal opinion, that’s telling, in some small way says something about the quality of the local culture.

    In regards to McCord not playing against Northeast, they might have been resting him deliberately since they were only playing the Philadelphia Public League champ. It’s a matter of conservation.

  5. Tornado Fan says:

    @ ucitaire
    I found it amazing that a Southern COACH (or other adult on the sideline) was able to run up and shove a MCA player after a tackle near their sideline and not get penalized. But it was all Mt. Carmel right? FYI it’s on YouTube, 0:23 left in the 3rd q.

  6. Jay says:


    Did you find the CD-Hburg game yet and check it out? Like Chief said it’s on YouTube. I’m curious what another D1 guy thinks of them based on watching that game, looking at their schedule, and yes also factoring in their bye week. Chief wasn’t too impressed it doesn’t look like.

    I haven’t even looked at todays results yet aside from the comments below but that’s sad to hear about the Mount Carmel – SoCo game getting out of hand. It reminds me of a few years back when things got really really out of control like that at the end of a state final in Hershey. I feel like it was Imhotep vs ECP but I apologize in advance if I’m wrong about that. I just remember being there like “oh no, what a terrible way to finish the day”

  7. Ucitare says:

    Sac beat mt Carmel 49-0 tonite. Mt Carmel dishonered itself with the most thuggish display of cheap shots and unsportsman like conduct. Police needed to restore order.

  8. Bleed Red & Black says:

    Ortega’s injury was to his hamstring area

    Coatesville stats guys seemed to indicate it was cramping. He was getting it stretched on the sideline shortly after the 1st long TD run. Did some more stretching after the half.

    Definitely had a impact in the 2nd/3rd Quarters but if it was just cramping he will be as healthy as he has been all season heading into next week.

    We will see if DTW gives the Cville Wrs 10yd cushion all night. Oretga picked them apart on short passes in the 1st meeting. Bryant and Stewart (#9) both had 100+ yards. Expect another classic at Kott Friday night. Gonna come down to which defense can make the most plays.

  9. Kevin X says:

    Mmmm, seems like The Prep has issues with public schools……… 🙂

    Anyone have an update on McCord and why he was on the sidelines in street clothes this evening??

  10. Chief Red Raider says:

    SJP better hope they get their QB back, cause they are definitely not invincible (as some think) without him. Yeah, they beat NE, but if you listened to the game you’ll know what I mean.

  11. Jeff H says:

    As expected TJ cruised to a 41-7 win over Belle Vernon after taking a 35-0 lead at half to set up a quarterfinal game next week against Erie Prep for the 4th time in the last 5 yrs. I hope for the sake of his team TJ coach Bill Cherpak doesn’t come out in the media this week and complain about having to playing the “Erie All-Stars” like he has in years past, I think he does his team a disservice by whining about the advantages ECP has. I expect this game to be very competitive and likely TJ’s best chance to win since 2015 when they lost by a TD up in Erie, it has to been in Pittsburgh this year since it’s been in Erie the last 2 and I’m hoping to be there. I’m sure NW PA will chime in with his thoughts and I’ll have more to say about this game later in the week.

  12. Jeff H says:

    @ Chief Red Raider & Buddy – WPIAL 1A and 3A winners have byes next week, like they have the last 3 years, the coaches who have commented on record have said they welcome the bye this time of year, gives the kids a chance to recharge and heal and game plan for the next opponent. I have a hunch CD doesn’t mind the bye next week after 2 physical, emotional games against MT and Harrisburg. The byes are another one of the drawbacks of 6 classes, I don’t recall any teams getting byes this late in the playoffs when we had 4 classes.

  13. Jeff H says:

    Central Valley survived a valiant and emotional effort from Aliquippa to win 13-12 in OT. Aliquippa QB Morris Vaughn’s mom died last night, and the Quips played their hearts out, in a moving tribute of respect and sportsmanship the CV captains went over to the Quips sideline before the game to offer their support and condolences. Aliquippa had the perfect game plan, run the ball effectively and move the chains and keep CV’s offense off the field, the Quips lead 6-0 at half and held the ball for almost 17 minutes, CV only ran 13 plays all half. Both teams moved the ball in the 2nd half and would get a few first downs before being forced to punt, CV finally scored in the 4th quarter to tie it but missed the point, In OT CV had the ball and scored and made the kick, the Quips then scored on an 11 yard run on 2nd down and went for the 2 point conversion and were stopped at the 2 yard line. CV has a bye next week and will probably end up playing Sharon in 2 weeks in the western final.

    In the first game Clairton had an impressive 41-19 win over a very good Sto-Rox team. Clairton is a complete team, very good defense, lots of playmakers on offense and a dual threat QB who has rushed for over 1,000 yards and throws a very nice ball to a stable of good, quick receivers. I think they are the favorite in 1A, they get a bye next week and will almost certainly play Farrell in the western final in 2 weeks, IMO the winner of that game will be the favorite in Hershey.

  14. Foleman says:

    Tamaqua/PJP was surprised how strong Tamaqua was up front, running back Boyle is as tough as they come in HS, their QB is very accurate, I thought Wyo would role over the PJP/Tamaqua winner, now I see the game as a pick em. The collisions that will occur between Wyo’s LB Niedrowski and Boyle will be worth the price of admission.

    Middletown had a TD called back on a chop block in the 2nd half which completely changed the momentum of the game, Wyo scored a short time after to go up 2 scores, Eric, I though Middletown got hosed on the 4th and one stop, I was right there and it looked like Wyo was short of the marker.

    BC’S Coach Keeley said that Milton Hershey was probably the 5th or 6th best team BC played, I also was surprised by BC putting up 49 points but look at who they played:

    McDonough-11-0 playing for the MD State Championship, ranked #4 in MD, #39 nationally
    Central Dauphin-District 3 6A champ and my pick to go to the 6A final
    Malvern Prep-Had a down year but plays in the most competitive league in the State
    Wyomissing-District 3 3A Champ, they have their best team since the State Championship team several years ago
    Exeter-made it to the 5A District 3 Semi’s
    Hamburg-eastern Conference Champion, BC had 7 starters out that game

  15. Eric W/D3 says:

    Great game today. Wyo takes down Middletown 24-21. Keys to the game, turnovers Middletown 3, Wyomissing 0. Plus, Lopez for Middletown shut down in first half, although their OL was starting to control Wyo DL in second half. Two good teams played a great game.

  16. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Kevin X: Ricky was gimping around like he aggravated his previous ankle or foot injury. He played pretty well the 2nd half, but needs to be healthy to have a shot at moving on. Bryant carried the ball a few times, but I thought they underutilized his talent. I don’t think there were any direct snaps or handoffs from backfield — a couple jet sweeps. Didn’t send many passes his way either — weird.

  17. Kevin X says:

    @ Chief

    Ricky’s injury last night a re-aggravation of an existing issue, heard toe, ankle, foot, all in the past several weeks, or something new?? Was Bryant in the backfield last night??

    @ Buddy

    Somewhat off topic, (OK, global football), maybe lift your spirits, congrats to the NP boys soccer team on a state championship, as well as the LC and Boyertown girls.

    @ D3 Commish


  18. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Jay, Yeah you were right — just watched it — H-burg got ripped on the fumble/no fumble call. Didn’t H-burg have issues with the refs in the earlier matchup too? Now I’m really not seeing CD as the favorite against D1.

  19. D3 Mike says:

    Jay, someone closer to the CD program would have insight into the underclassmen but at least as far as the seniors go, their line has Air Force, Temple, and East Stroudsburg commits. Would love to see them go up against PCC’s beef in Hershey but that’s obviously a long-shot.

  20. Buddy says:

    The general consensus is most coaches and players don’t like bye weeks. Breaks the momentum.

    Yep, the 2 best teams are in the D1, 6A final, I agree. They can only look forward to winning the semi-final,

    the final is a forgone conclusion. That’s a shame. I won’t even watch the final, too painful.

  21. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Kevin X: The CD/H-burg is on Youtube — was just watching some of it (Sorry Jay, not seeing CD as the favorite against either DTW or C’ville). Yeah, Howard is good, but I’m pretty sure Ortega outplayed him the first meeting (and is still setting PA HS career records). He looked a bit injured last night — we’ll see if that impacts next week. Also, don’t forget Bryant. Not sure his abilities are always used to max in any given game, but my guess is that he will see the ball a bit more on Friday.

  22. District 3 Commish says:

    If the demographic of the athletic teams do not match the demographic of the student population then there is a larger problem within the entire school district.

  23. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    The 6A D1/D3 game almost definitely be in D1 territory. I would assume (and this is a big assumption, we are dealing with the PIAA after al) is that the game would be at Kottmeyer or Coatesville, depending on the outcome of Friday’s tilt (the again, I’d be more than happy at the likes of Pennridge :)).

    The video of H-Burg and CD, on the NFHS, or somewhere public and free?? YouTube??

    Will Howard showed why he is one of, if not best, senior QBs in the state this year, and off to Kansas State. Basically Howard v. Blair (22 rushes for 249 yds, 3 TD passes, thought I saw). And more than worth the price of admission (seriously, where can you get an event and entertainment like that for all of $5?? (and free parking!!!)). Credit Haverford and Blair fighting to the bitter end, especially when they were down 42-14 late in the third quarter. Two very costly first half fumbles did them in, IMO. Otherwise it was like a tennis match and Haverford couldn’t break DTW’s serve. Once again, can’t wait for next Friday and the third weekend in a row visiting Kottmeyer!!!

  24. Mike A says:

    Michael Whitehead out after seven seasons as Cumberland Valley football coach, report says

  25. D3 Mike says:

    Well at least Cedar Cliff won, otherwise I posted an 0-fer last night.

    Central Dauphin is legit. Their sophomore QB went 13-for-15 behind a line that dominated all night (on both sides of the ball) – as they have since the Wilson game. Congrats to a classic lunch pail type of team to go from 1-2 to a district title in 6A.

    Cannot believe Berks Catholic posted 49 points. Exeter 14. McDonogh 7. Central Dauphin 7. Hamburg 9. Malvern 7. Wyomissing 0. Milton Hershey 49. Makes total sense lol. If anything, that performance bodes well for Wyomissing this afternoon. Wyomissing completely shut down BC, who demolished Milton Hershey, who in turn handled Middletown.

    2A title game last week, 6A last night, 3A today, 4A and 5A next week … all a bunch of coin flips in district 3, IMO. Don’t think we have any state winners but an amazing year of competitive playoff football in district 3.

  26. Jay says:

    So I’ve had all night to reflect on last nights results, and since I work overnights on the weekends, I was able to rewatch the Coatesville game, find all available clips of the West game (very limited) and then watch the Central Dauphin/Harrisburg game.

    West and Coatesville are the class of District One. There’s no disputing it, and I could not be more excited for next weeks game nor anymore in awe of their considerable talents. But how in the world are either of them going to beat CD?! Let me just say. Harrisburg’s line on either side of the ball was comprised of large, fast, scary men. And CD’s lines seemed bigger, like 30 year old heavyweight UFC fighters or something. Idk, maybe it was the camera angles. Their running back Timmy something is fast as lightning and finds the gaps, their QB Max Mosie (sp?) is quick and decisive and very accurate with his short and long passes, and he has multiple weapons. Whilst being protected by those UFC fighters.

    I will say that Harrisburg got hosed on a CD fumble non-call that set up their game winning score, but it was a tough call and the refs don’t have the technology to correct themselves unfortunately. And maybe it wouldn’t have changed the outcome. But Harrisburg had momentum, and it just might have.

    Either way, CD looks scary. I’m sure our resident District 3 experts will chime in.

    My biggest question is, since the Eastern final was played in D3 territory last year, will it be played in D1 territory in two weeks? Do they alternate each year? If a well rested CD team gets basically a home game… then they’ll definitely be the ones eaten alive by SJP the following Saturday 🙁

  27. Chief Red Raider says:

    @Jeff H: Not sure what to think of CD having an extra week off — I never coached — wonder if some coaches have an opinion? My guess is it could throw them out of routine or cut down on the intensity. It looks like Ortega re-injured his ankle and could use a couple weeks too, but first they have to deal with DTW. No matter what, it is a dumb playoff format in some ways.

    Another note on the C’ville/GV game. In some ways It was a lot closer than the final score (a couple pick sixes at the end), but I think CV had 3 fumbles that were converted into TD’s by GV. Also, was pretty impressed with CV’s defense — really stopped the running attack in the 2nd half. Moreover, CV should have scored 2 or 3 more times but got stalled (I thought some of the play calling was interesting — GET THE BALL TO BRYANT! REPEAT, GET THE BALL TO BRYANT! — he might be the most exciting player in PA).

  28. Jeff H says:

    @Chief Red Raider – agree with you Coatesville and Dwest are 2 best teams in D1 and fitting they will meet in the finals, I’ve thought that for a while now, winner of that game is going to have their hands full with a hot CD team that gets next week off. Now let the bitching and moaning begin about how unfair it is for the D3 winner to have a bye next week!! And I don’t disagree, but it is what it is, we’ll see what the PIAA does with the brackets for the next 2 yr cycle.

  29. Jeff H says:

    Since Penn Trafford star running back Caleb Lisbon was lost for the season in September due to a knee injury the question has been whether PT had enough offense to win a WPIAL and also perhaps a state title, tonight we found out the answer to that question is no, as they lost to Peters Township 28-10. PT dominated the first half but only led 3-0 at halftime after having the ball in the red zone 4 times, twice getting stopped on downs and then missing a 35 yard field goal as time expired. Peters went into halftime feeling really fortunate to only be down 3-0, they promptly came out and took the 2nd half kick and went on a 61 yard drive to take a 7-3 lead. On the ensuing possession PT got a couple of first downs but then after a 10 yard completion the receiver was stripped of the ball which was returned 43 yards for a TD to make it 14-3. After an interception on the next play from scrimmage Peters again went on a scoring drive to make it 21-3. PT came back to make it 21-10, but then with a little under 5 minutes to go another int was returned 50 yards for a touchdown to make it 28-10 for the final score of the night.

    Peters plays for their first district championship next week against Gateway, a 14-7 winner over McKeesport. I picked Gateway before the playoffs started but I really like Peters chances, they have a much better defense than Gateway, are better on both lines and more physical. I’ve been touting Peters on this board all season, even after they lost to Moon, if I’m making PennLives state rankings I have Peters as #1, but you can bet they will have Gateway #1 and Wood probably #2, but don’t be surprised if you see Peters Township in Hershey in 3 weeks.

  30. Chief Red Raider says:

    Coatesville 48-27 over GV. I think they were trying to set the record for the most unsportsmanlike penalties in a key playoff game. Ortega is limping around again, but set record as only QB to pass for 2000 yards every year. Maybe Pennlive (and some other ranking sites 🙂 ) will take note. Not sure what to think of another DTW/C’ville game — but I do think they are the 2 best teams in D1.

  31. Jay says:

    I meant to say the last time they met at Garnet Calley, of course. Haven’t forgotten last years destruction in Coatesville. 42-7 or something like that.

    So there’s a big revenge factor at play too…

  32. Jay says:

    It’s almost game time! The fiancée and I are about to head from my house (Coatesville) to her alma mater (Garnet Valley) to see what I expect to be an instant classic dogfight. Garnet Valley is better than they were last year, Coatesville has come down a notch, and the Jaguars in recent history have a great home field advantage. The last time the two teams met it took an Aaron Young pick-six with about a minute to play for Coatesville to steal that game – one that Garnet Valley was moments away from winning, sans turnover.

    There’s no sense in predicting a winner, because I’ve sucked at it in these playoffs. I’ll be pulling for Coatesville and Downingtown and hoping that at least one of them win, since otherwise my teams are done for the year. (I don’t stop watching until after Hershey and then two weeks later when the Texas 6A-II is over with, but we all have our squads and know it isn’t the same once their seasons are over, and that’s a fear I’m feeling presently).

    Good luck to everyone and stay warm!

  33. JC says:

    A D11 look:

    6A: Nazareth vs. Parkland. Parkland is on a roll and is healthier, but Nazareth has the best player in Anthony Harris. Ultimately it’s hard to ignore Parkland’s playoff history, Parkland wins by a score.

    5A: Southern Lehigh vs. Oil City (D10). It’s been discussed that Oil City maybe has had a weak schedule. Solehi’s schedule isn’t one to write home about either, but they’ve been more dominant in their wins. Spartans win by 10.

    4A: Pottsville vs. Allentown Central Catholic. An anticipated semifinal round lived up to its billing. This will be another toss-up. Central is on a nice run and it’s hard to beat Beca and ACC in consecutive weeks, so I pick them to win by 3 points.

    3A: Tamaqua vs. Pope John Paul II (D12). PJP is favored, but I have a feeling they may start slow after an emotional win over N-G. Maybe wishful thinking, but I pick Tamaqua to hold off a late comeback by PJP.

    1A: Williams Valley vs. Lackawanna Trail (D2). Williams Valley has had some success over D2 in the 1A playoffs, and Lackawanna Trail is not as good as they were last year. Williams Valley by 10. The winner likely has the inside track to be the “East” representative in the semifinals.

  34. Jeff H says:

    For those that have an interest here’s my WPIAL outlook for the weekend:

    6A – #1 PCC vs. #2 Pine Richland – these schools have combined to win the last 6 WPIAL titles, with each winning 3, PCC of course won the regular season game 29-7 in week 6 with a dominating performance from their DLine that had PR quarterback Cole Spencer under siege all night. Expect this game to be much closer, PR has a big advantage in coaching, I have a feeling Coach K. comes up with a game plan to get his play-makers the ball in space and PR finds a way to win their third straight district title, winner likely plays State College next week, I like everyone else think they beat Del Valley by probably 3 scores.

    5A – #1 Penn Trafford vs. #5 Peters Township – I have been looking forward to this game since the brackets were announced and will be there, bonus that it’s being played about 5 minutes from my house! They played a classic last year in the playoffs, score was tied 21-21 after the first quarter, and 28-28 at half before things settled down and Peters won 38-35 on a FG as time expired. I expect this game to be just as close, although I would be very surprised if they score that many points again as both teams are very good defensively, I’m leaning towards Penn Trafford but this game could go either way, IMO winner is the favorite to win the WPIAL title next week and advance to Hershey.

    #2 Gateway vs. #6 McKeesport – Gateway won the first match-up 36-7 in the final game of the regular season, since then they’ve struggled, needing a TD in the last minute to get by a game Bethel Park team last week 17-13, while McKeesport knocked off defending champ Penn Hills. If McKeesport doesn’t turn the ball over like they did the first game (2 turnovers in first 2 possessions and in the blink of an eye it was 14-0) this should be a very close game, I’m still picking Gateway to get back to the final.

    4A – #1 TJ vs. #3 Belle Vernon – conference rivals played 2nd game of season won by TJ 34-7, although score was tied 7-7 at half. This is Belle Vernon’s first trip to the finals in 20yrs, while TJ is making their 5th straight appearance, this game may be a little closer than the first one but still see TJ winning by 3 scores, winner plays Erie Prep next week, who should roll over Bellefonte

    3A #1 Central Valley vs. #2 Aliquippa – rematch from 3 weeks ago won by CV 45-6, expect it to be closer but still see CV winning by 3 scores

    2A #1 Washington vs. #5 Brentwood – Wash High has been #1 all year, they have a huge weight advantage (75 lbs+) on both lines and expect them to wear Brentwood down

    #2 Avonworth vs. #14 Riverside – can Cinderella Riverside keep it going after upsetting #3 Burgettstown and #6 McGuffey last week, I think Avonworth has too many athletes and will win

    1A # Clairton vs. #3 Sto-Rox – first game at Heinz tomorrow, the question is will Sto-Rox score, as Clairton has outscored their first 2 playoff opponents 80-0, I like Clairton to win and meet defending state champ Farrell in 2 weeks in the Western Final.

  35. D3 Mike says:

    Oops, BC is on the road tonight. Same result. Milton Hershey is underrated and should give Bishop McDevitt (Harrisburg) a good game in the final if both make it thru tonight in 4A.

  36. Chief Red Raider says:

    Just curious — how comparable is Garnet Valley’s run game to CBW? I heard C’ville struggled early on trying to figure out CBW. CV has played GV the last 2 years so they should have some grip on what to expect, but CV does not have a big line (IMO). Should be an interesting game tonight.

  37. Mcd65 says:

    I am hoping McD gives Dunmore a good game .Kevin,you probably know that McD gets cherry picked of some of their best underclass players for the last few years by bigger name schools ie Neuman Gorretti and this past year Jon Luke Peaker 1000 yd rusher at Northeast. It doesn’t appear if this continues McD will ever be capable of a real state threat in AA. Southern Columbia will murder any challengers this year anyway. Lonnie Rice is a very good player on both sides of the ball.

  38. D3 Mike says:

    Kevin, it’s a mix of playing bad programs and playing smaller schools. It’s a shame with all of the quality 4A teams in D2 this year that these were the 4As they played:

    West Scranton (4A) 1-9
    Wallenpaupack (5A) 3-7
    Wilkes Barre (6A) 7-5
    North Pocono (4A) 5-6
    Hazelton (6A) 2-8
    Abington (4A) 3-8
    Williamsport (6A) 3-8
    Wyoming Valley West (5A) 3-8
    Scranton (6A) 6-5

    Delaware Valley actually does have a decent program, though. Not sure how many state playoff games they’ve won all-time (if any) but they lost by a TD to State College in 2017 and a TD to Parkland in 2012 so hopefully it will be competitive again this weekend. But just comparing that schedule to the brutal one that State College played this year in the Mid Penn and yeah, you’re probably right.

    Some D3 picks for this weekend:

    6A: Harrisburg over Central Dauphin – Lost amidst Clockgate was the fact that Harrisburg turned the ball over 6 times in the first game. I can’t see that happening again.
    5A: Warwick over Cocalico – Better of the 2 matchups in 5A and Cocalico IS the #1 seed… but Warwick remains the best team in the eastern half of the state bracket and wins a shootout.
    4A: Milton Hershey over Berks Catholic – BC has made 6 straight district title appearances but the run ends on their home field tomorrow. Just don’t have enough weapons this year.
    3A: Middletown over Wyomissing – Wyomissing is more polished, especially on offense. But they’ve also been outscored 138-26 by Middletown the past 3 years vs. Middletown AND the champ is the champ until someone takes the belt away. Also, I picked Middletown in August so I can’t flip-flop now.

  39. District 3 Commish says:

    LL League

    The LL League is catering to the small schools and will have 4 sections with 6 teams each starting next year. That means Warwick is going to section 2 with MC and Cocalico who will both regress next year. Warwick will win that section easily.

    Section 1 will be Wilson and Township and not much else. Hempfield is improving but not enough to challenge. The LL should be careful with this new arrangement as they are putting the big schools in a scheduling challenge. With the new set-up there are 5 league games and one mandated crossover game with Section 2. The 6A teams are struggling to find week 4 games as most other teams are in their league schedule by then. If Wilson goes somewhere else the LL Section 1 becomes the York League.

    How is this for a juicy league – D West, D East, Coatesville, Spring-Ford, Perk Valley, Wilson, Mifflin & MT

  40. JC says:

    @Kevin X: Outside of Del Val, 6A/5A in D2 was really weak this year. Wilkes-Barre Area, the new team that was formed, was probably the second-best 6A/5A team in the district and they lost by over three scores to both Dallas and Berwick. If Del Val had played one of Dallas, Berwick, or Valley View, I’m not sure they win. State College should have no problem winning big.

    It is good to see DV scheduling D1 teams in their non-conference, wish certain conferences and teams would follow their lead. *cough* EPC *cough*

  41. D1 Lifer says:

    Chesmont Catholic practices and plays home games at PJP. It’s a combination of a handful of local Parrish’s with the majority of kids on the team currently enrolled in local Catholic schools, ( mostly SF school district) with a few kids who attend Springford, Owen J and Perk Valley middle schools. These are the same kids who turn around and play basketball etc for the CYO programs in their area as well. Of the 16 or so 8th graders currently on the CMC team I’d be shocked if at least 12 don’t move on to PJP next year. I can’t speak to kids that transfer in to the HS as they get older, but there is a nice “feeder” program PJP.

  42. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d & NO

    Can one of you guys, or anyone, explain to me how Del Val gets shut out in week 0/1 to a two win Pennridge team and then runs the table, probably averaging 50 or so points a game?? Was half the team still on summer break?? Yeah, I believe SC is going to have a field day with them Friday night.

    Don’t let that 6-6 McDevitt record fool you. They played two very good non league opponents and a decent PCL blue league schedule. QB/Athlete and U of Buffalo bound (where did I see that before??) Lonnie Rice can carry that team on his back (Mmmm, that sounds familiar too).

  43. Mike says:

    What CYO are near PJP because idk any of them?

  44. mark d says:

    @ Kevin x Valley View has a chance i think it be a closer game than last time but, Dallas is to strong up front and will ware them down and pull it out in the 4 quarter 35-21 .No i don’t see Prep staying with Wyoming area i think it be more of less the same as the first game 35-14 .As for the rest of D2 Dunmore should put up a fight think it be a good game Lacakwanna trail see moving on Delaware Valley to beat up to play with State Collage

  45. LL LEAGUE 21 says:


    It should have been 21 zip at half MT with the number of plays they had with the ball. Ivey has been a RB his whole career and he could easily have gotten behind Floyd- 44 and run the ball. Screens to him were open too but the game plan seemed to be 44,44, and more 44 with a pass a quarter to Ivey. A shame, this team would be fun versus H-Burg! As for the future, qb prospects are decent but all eyes will be on Ivey so next season isn’t going to be so easy. Line play is a concern too but while MT will still do well in section play I don’t see long trips to the post season coming. LOL, maybe SJP will recruit Ivey, I haven’t heard about transfers at all.

  46. Neutral Observer says:

    @ mark d

    I literally laughed out loud at your “3 yards and a cloud of ground up tire” comment.

    @ Kevin X

    RE Dallas/VV: I didn’t go to Dallas/Crestwood, but I heard that the closer than expected score was really more Dallas pacing themselves more than anything else. My prediction is that Dallas easily handles Valley View.

    RE Scranton Prep/Wyoming Area: I agree that Scranton Prep is a totally different (better) team than the first time these two teams played, but I think WA is still too much. I did attend the Prep/WW game last week. It would have been a much uglier blowout by Prep, but they kept shooting themselves in the foot with turnovers. I think I saw 2 lost fumbles on 2 different drives (and by 2 different runners no less) within the WW 10 yd line. I think I remember that WA had a ton of takeaways in the first matchup with Prep, and I think turnovers will decide this rematch.

  47. District 3 Commish says:

    LL League 21

    I was at the CD – MT game also and agree with you on the utilization of Ivey. They need to figure out ways to get him the ball other then Kirk throwing it 50 yards down field. Screens, jet sweeps etc…. Next year he will see more double coverage and see a lot of pooch kicks on Special Teams.

    The defensive side for MT ended up the same as the playoff game last year, meaning CD was just more physical and wore MT down. CD actually has more guys playing both ways so I struggle understanding how that happens.

    I saw quite a few Freshmen games this year for LL and Berks teams, including MT against Hempfield and Wilson. MT lost a close game to Hempfield and was completely dominated by Wilson.

    With Kirk graduating, I am not sure that MT has a QB coming thru the system that will be able to get the ball down field to Ivey. Vega, the JV QB is more of a runner. Does anyone know more about their younger players? Do they have a QB coming up? Is there a transfer coming?

    Harrisburg over CD
    Warwick over Cocalico
    Cedar Cliff over Exeter
    Wyomissing over Middletown

  48. Jay says:


    No!!!! Let’s go Coatesville! Ville vs West rematch then revenge on Harrisburg and then a huge win over SJP to cap the dream season. Kennett goes on to win 5A too. Oh and Bishop Shanahan over ECP in 4A. A chesmont sweep. LOL one can dream right?

  49. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    Kudos for you and anyone else who ventured out to a game this past Friday. I waited 24 hrs. to catch a game. Good decision on my part. Streaming a game, following tweets, and score board watching was my Friday night.

    So, does Valley View have a chance Friday against Dallas to repeat as D2 4A Champs??. Surprised the Dallas/Crestwood score was a little closer than I thought it would be. Then again, maybe it’s the case of the score not telling the whole story.

    Also, can Scranton Prep turn the tables against Wyoming Area in their rematch?? Thinking Prep is a young team who have been maturing and getting better with each week. Probably a different team from the team that played them back on Labor Day weekend.

  50. Irish1 says:

    Coach D,, you might want to get your facts straight. First of all just because its a catholic school does not mean they have to be in the PCL. Many surburban catholic schools were long time members of the PIAA. Archbishop Kennedy,St Pius X , Lansdale Catholic prior to its move to PCL to name a few. These schools did very well over the years drawing their enrollments mainly from the areas that surrounded their schools. i get a kick out of how people didnt seem to have a problem with PJP when they were dropping 50 plus points on them a few years back. Those players that transferred actually went to grade schoools within the general PJP drawing area,but for whatever reason and with open enrollment decided to go elsewhere for high school. They had a change of heart and decided to come over to PJP which is their right. PJP is nothing like the District 12 schools as far as recruiting goes. Just the same
    old tired public school argument that doesnt apply here. Most of the schools that have a problem with PJP had 2 or 3 times PJP’s enrollment

  51. Foleman says:

    Coach D, I guess you missed the part where 3 of the kids that transferred in were from a PJP feeder school and 4/5 transferred in from CATHOLIC SCHOOLS. The lone Public School transfer- TE Walker transferred in from a school that passes the football on average a whopping 4 times a game and won 2 games this year over 0-11 teams. Let’s see, should Walker have stayed at Boone-A perennial dormat or play in one of the most dynamic offenses in the area? The area Public Schools are full of CYO athletes yet you complain about Catholic school kids transferring in? Do you know where PJP and Shanahan are geographically located? I’m sure PJP would love to travel into the City down 422 and the Schuykill Expwy every day during rush hour to play schools in the PCL. PJP won had 4 1 win seasons and didn’t win a game another year and the one year they do well the PUB CRY BABIES come out of the Woodwork.

  52. Mike says:

    @ Jay according to the D1 bracket the championship game will be Friday, and as far as that “nagging feeling” you have …. I hope it’s right!

  53. MIchael says:

    I can see Garnet Valley has a live webcast for the Coatesville game. Does anyone know if the DTW/Haverford game will be streamed? Thanks.

  54. Coach D says:

    @IRISH1 do you mean the old fashion way of transferring in handful of players? PJP is a Philadelphia Catholic School who along with Bishop Shanahan should be playing in PCL. Yes most of their players have went thru the program since the 9th grade but they had to transfer in players to finally win a district championship…Egan did the same thing last 2 years and prior to that Del Val Charter before closing. Neuman goretti transferred in ton last year with Del Val charter closing and few Imhotep and Roman Catholic kids coming over. District 12 treats offseason like NFL free agency. Hopefully this New transfer rule and competitive formula taking affect will stop most of these teams from transferring in after freshmen year.

  55. LL LEAGUE 21 says:

    Township talk, you have a point but your facts are mostly wrong. MT only has 1 div 1 player Ivey. The rest are FCs or d2. CD has played twic a year and knows what will work and the adjustments made at half were stellar. You are right if you are saying mt doesn’t play its best in the post season. I too blame Evans for that as Ivey scored or set up four scores in like 6 touches. That is rediculous. Then again Benjamin and others didn’t get the ball either. Defense didn’t get to adjust because CD qb had time to throw. Mt got too conservative in the fourth and didn’t force throws at all. Sad to say MT while a great group of kids weren’t given the best plan to use.

  56. Jay says:

    Sorry for blowing up the forum with consecutive posts, but I want to throw a little love toward 4A and 5A Ches-Mont as well.

    Congrats to Bishop Shanahan on their run so far, playing the Downingtowns in the regular season definitely prepared them for a playoff push. Hope they can win a couple more.

    And also congrats to Kennett, WC Rustin, and WC East on very good seasons. Rustin and Kennett are still going strong, and I’ve really been on the Kennett Bandwagon. I mean I haven’t gone to a game, but I’ve been rooting from afar. A win over Cheltenham will be huge, and how about a Rustin rematch in the 5A D1 final?!

    I’m not a cable TV guy, so I don’t have the PCN network, so in order to watch the State championships, I’ve got my NFHS subscription up and running for the next couple months. Did the same thing last year and after PA ball ended, I watched a lot of state playoffs in Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, and other random states. Except the Texas state finals aren’t on there – Fox sports has a lockdown on that.

    Rant over.

  57. Jay says:

    Does anyone know if the 6A District One Final will be next Friday or Saturday? I assume Friday, it was on a Friday last year right?

    It was the 6A eastern final that was played on Saturday IIRC, since the 6A state title game is the final Saturday game in Hershey.

    I’m just trying to figure out my viewing schedule because unfortunately during the weekends I work overnight 11-7 shifts, which makes day games tough to attend if I have any intention of sleeping. Guess I’ll have to figure that out because I have NO intention on missing this years East Final, because regardless of the matchup, it’s going to be a great one. I’m hoping for Coatesville vs Harrisburg again but I have this nagging feeling that won’t go away that it’s going to be Garnet Valley out of D1.

  58. Jay says:

    Here we go again with a difficult decision between games to choose from. As much as I’m dying to see West vs Haverford, C’Ville vs Garnet Valley round three is probably the game I’m most excited to see since the 2017 East Final against SJP. (Ahhh, so close).

    Though this game has revenge written all over it, and tbh it does worry me a bit, Coatesville is finding ways to win right now and they seem difficult to figure out… like they are holding on tight to what they’ve built the last few years and saying to their opponents “come and get it, but you’re gonna have to really work for it, and for four quarters”.

    Is Garnet Valley the team that can answer that call? They were SO close two years ago and thoroughly outclassed last season. Is the third time the charm?

  59. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Kevin X, Haverford vs. C’ville would be great, but I think both teams are going to have a tough game this week. As a Coatesville guy I’m more concerned about GV than Haverford — I don’t think one standout player is going to beat Coatesville — but C’ville is still hard to figure even this late in the season so who knows if it gets to that point. I’m glad C’ville is looking more to run the ball with Bryant — leave the game in the hands of your playmakers!

  60. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X – Yeah, Uggla got hurt against Coatesville but finished the game (broken clavicle). It didn’t hurt against an outgunned PV team but certainly didn’t help against the Fords. As you mentioned, DTW much more diverse on offense so should provide for an entertaining game.

  61. D3 Mike says:

    Everything from your name to throwing shots right after a team lost screams “sportsmanship”. Why don’t you put your big girl panties on and approach this like an adult?

    MT lost in double overtime to a great program that also has plenty of D1 talent on it. They won 11 games and a league title which is a successful season. And they can’t control what the papers say.

    As it stands, most of the teams you named have a 10% winning percentage once they get outside of the district and are state powers only in their parochial (there’s that word again) fans’ minds. Which team is yours?

  62. Township Talk says:

    Where have all the Manheim Township people gone? I have looked online in the Manheim Times (AKA Lancaster Online) and all I can find is a short recap from Friday night. No follow-up article, no quotes from the self promoting, prophetic, former Miami Hurricane himself. No more adjectives describing the team as legendary, historic, greatest ever. No more mentions of a guaranteed trip to the State Finals.

    For the last three years this team has had the best talent in the District outside of Harrisburg. They won 6A title in 2017 only because Harrisburg played 5A that year. The next two years they don’t even make the District Final.

    Going back to 2014 they have had three talented QB’s – Benjamin to Bloomsburg, Emge to Harvard and now Kirk to Colgate. This year they have at least 4 D1 players on the team.

    You can’t go around telling everyone how great you are and not prove it with results. It’s time for the Coach and others to stop talking and toughen up in playoff games. Friday night they had a 14 point lead in the second half and choked it away. Sorry, but if you want to compare your D Coordinator to John Nash then you better get it done.

    Manheim Township…….. You are not CD, CV, Wilson, Harrisburg or McDevitt. Stop self promoting and start working.

    SWAT This!!!!!!!!!

  63. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    What I understand, these past two wins by Haverford were their first and only two wins ever in district play.

    I’m more looking forward to a potential Haverford/Coatesville finals match-up. That would be very intriguing. Old guard vs. the new kids on the block.

  64. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    ……more like surreal. Scary thing to me was, that he made it look so easy, effortless. Like you said (and me embellishing), a man among little boys. To be fair, I think DTE was without Spencer Uggla on both sides of the ball, which was a big hit to them, and it showed in their running game. Like Jay said below, I didn’t get either the constant running up the middle and long passes. You have the fastest kid on the field with Stanley Bryant, take a play or two out of the Coatesville playbook and throw some screens and short passes, or some sweeps, get he kid in the open and on the outside where his speed and agility would kill. Oh well. Different animal coming up with DTW, their offense is much better and diverse than DTE. Their “D” tho could be an issue, so like I alluded to before, scoreboard could be lit up.

    Sounds like the injury was/is a nagging, reaggravated hip pointer. So expect he should be good to go on Friday.

    Looking very much forward to a return trip to Kottmeyer on Friday night.

    Yes, he would look good in Temple cherry and white!!!

  65. mark d says:

    @kevin x well i was wrong attended the Valley View Berwick game and the place was empty.Very sparse crowd,to bad they missed a good game it was an old fashion 3 yards and a cloud of ground up tire lol Berwick made a few more mistakes and that was the game but both teams lined up and said here we come stop us very very physical game.It was my understanding that Dunmore and Mid valley had a nice crowd and well as Scranton prep and Western Wayne

  66. Mike says:

    @ Buddy.
    GV played in the D1 championship game in ‘16 vs NP and in ‘17 vs Coatesville, lost to Coatesville in the semifinals last year. GV beat Haverford earlier this year.

  67. NW PA says:

    A few thoughts about this weeks games and looking ahead. In 6A I was disappointed that McDowell didn’t give State College a better game but their play makers have been banged up the last few weeks. State College should win this week setting up a showdown with the WPIAL champs, but I’m not sure they get past whoever it is. In 5A, Oil City squeaked by a very weak Hollidaysburgh team but they should get smoked by Southern Lehigh. In 4A, Erie Cathedral had no problem with USO/Obama and now they get Bellefonte. I’ve heard Bellefonte is pretty decent and that they are starting to hit their stride but I suspect Cathedral will be too much for them to handle. I’m gonna wait and see how that game goes before I comment on a possible showdown with a vert talented TJ the week after. In 3A, Sharon beat an undefeated Harborcreek which I had predicted. Harborcreek is another team that plays a weak schedule so I’m not surprised. Grove City looked good against Hickory so I’m not sure who wins when the play but I will say this, Sharon always seems to rise to the occasion in the playoffs so I’ll take them in a close one. In 2A Wilmington cruised and I suspect they will have no problem against Chestnut Ridge this week. In 1A, I was correct in predicting Maplewood would loose to Farrell. Maplewood hung with them until the 4th, but like I said, Farrell has too many athletes. Farrell should have no problem this week against Tussey Mountain who I don’t know much about.

    @Colonial Fan: After watching the Oil City film I feel like you get where I’ve been coming from. They really struggled against a weak Hollidaysburgh. You guys should have no problem with them. I would say you guys should win handily, may even a mercy rule. Good luck!

  68. Buddy says:

    Agree. Love to see H-ford & GV in the D1 final. Tired of the same ol same ol, unless, of course, it involves my team ( NP).

    GV was there 3 years ago ( against NP), Don’t ever remember H-ford even close to the D1 final.

    Sounds like H-ford could and will make the final. Doubtful for GV though. Maybe not.

    There was no undefeated team this year. I think that’s good for the playoff system.

  69. Uncle T says:

    Kevin X- Isn’t he unreal? Being a Delco guy, he’s the best player to come out of this county since Dan Connor of Strath Haven in the early 2000’s. Bernard Pierce from Glen Mills was amazing too in mid to late part of the 00’s, but Blair impacts the game everywhere at this point of the season. Check out his Hudl highlights from last week against Spring Ford- it’s one of the best examples I’ve ever seen of a man against boys, almost unfair. I’d find it hard to believe that some bigger college programs aren’t trying to sway him away from his Buffalo commitment.

    Haverford has a solid 2nd running back and a very good defense, but Blair makes everybody on their team about 5 times better. I heard that he wasn’t hurt too bad and could have gone back in if they needed, but they were wisely being extra cautious with their thoroughbred. DTown West has a serious challenge next week stopping him and how he has that team going, and a lot of people around here will be rooting for an all-Central League district final to boost what has been a down-decade for the county after Ridley and Strath Haven have become shadows of what they once were.

  70. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    I thought it was you who mentioned Mr. Blair in prior posts. i took last night off, but couldn’t sit out two days in a row, so headed down to Kottmeyer this evening. Holy freaking smokes!!! I’ll think about it, but Trey Blair in only one half of football, probably the best player, game changer, individual performance, I’ve seen live since D’Andre Swift. Unfortunately for Haverford, he is it. He did not play in the second half except for their first drive, guessing hip or thigh injury, and don’t think Haverford had more that a handful of yards, and no first downs (D did their thing tho, all their really needed at that point). Well see his status for Friday night. Guessing will be fine. If at or near 100%, DTW could be in trouble. Will be a shoot-out at the OK Kottmeyer corral. If not playing, Haverford will be rolled.

  71. ColonialFan says:

    @Jeff H
    What a night…thank you!! Spent the morning watching Oil City film from their game last night, and yes…I like our chances as well. Went to the Wood game this afternoon and was thoroughly unimpressed, despite the score. Was 0-0 after first quarter. Yes, 37-0 at half but majority of points were given to them by 1-9 Archbishop Ryan. Certainly not the Wood teams of years past. Could be an interesting couple of weeks!

  72. Jay says:

    Around 7:20, I snuck a glance at the D. East score and thought “ehh, I’ll just watch the rest of Bama-LSU and stay warm”. But no. I decided not to be a BIG FAT WUSS and got bundled up and got down to Kottmeyer… to a 35-6 Haverford lead.

    The second half has been much more competitive, but wow these Haverford kids can play! Matta needs to stop trying to run the ball up the gut – it’s not working! The long passes aren’t either. Ahh well.

    Love the crowd right now. Got my Coatesville peeps representing, the Garnet Valley preppies making an appearance, happy packs of Whippets Roaming around, and various other contingencies from around the district. It’s great. And the Haverford crowd is very animated. Sort of like Cinderella.

    Will Haverford come here again next week and take it to West? I have no idea. But if they do, and GV beats the Ville (which if I’m being honest I am worried about), then Haverford will have a rematch with the last team to (barely) beat them – and with everything on the line this time.

    I’d like to see Haverford at Coatesville in two weeks. One can hope.

  73. Uncle T says:

    Also, Haverford is an absolute threat with Trey Blair. He could start for SJP.

  74. Uncle T says:

    SJP is humiliating LaSalle. My goodness. Good luck to rest of 6A this year.

  75. Jeff H says:

    @Colonia; Fan – congrats to your son and Southern Lehigh on their fist district title, up next is Oil City, who seems to have perfected winning playoff games by a 9-7 score having done it 2 weeks in a row. I really like your chances against them as was discussed this week, looming after that is Archbishop Wood in the quarterfinals, and then the WPIAL champs.

    I went to see Peters Township demolish Moon last night and avenge their only loss of the season in a dominating 33-7 win. As many have pointed out on this board the rankings on this site, PennLive and other sites seem to defy logic at times, I said several weeks ago it was a joke that PennLive dropped Peters out of the top 10 when they lost to a good Moon team, and I was certain they were still a top 10 team in 5A. Last night they played like a team that can go a long way in the playoffs, maybe all the way to Hershey. Peters and Penn Trafford are playing the best in 5A in the WPIAL coming down the stretch, they will meet next week in the semi-finals in a rematch of a playoff game last year won by Peters 38-35 on a field goal as time expired. I expect this game to be just as close, although would be surprised if that many points are scored. Both teams are very similar, big, strong quick offensive/defensive lines, very good defense, good running attack with multiple backs and the ability to throw the ball, winner of this game will be the favorite in the WPIAL finals against the McKeesport/Gateway winner, as McKeesport knocked off defending champ Penn Hills and Gateway got a very late TD to come back and beat Bethel Park 17-13.

    @Jut- you may get your wish, but Wyomising first needs to beat 3 time defending district champ and state runner-up Middletown next week. I do like Montoursville’s chances to get to the Eastern Final and play the winner of that game, although PJPII may have something to say about that. I think there are 3-4 teams that a have a legitimate chance to get to Hershey on the eastern side of the bracket, in the west I don’t think anyone will come close to beating Central Valley.

  76. New2PA says:

    Buddy: Yes, PCC won 31-14 over Lebo. They play Pine-Richland who beat NA 49-14, in the 6A championship.

  77. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, I braved the cold and watched the Wilson game, Dahms didn’t learn his lesson about man to man coverage against stud receivers-(see Manheim Townships Ivey), Kent and Crew were open all day in the 1st half, 2nd half, Dahms went to a 6 dback scheme and what did Harrisburg do? They ran the ball down Wilson’s throat, moving their defensive end to tailback. Hburg’s QB has a gun and was better than I expected. Frey’s drop was a tough one for Wilson on the final drive and everybody and their brother knew that they were going to Lockhart on the last play of the game, poor kid had 3 guys on him. Throwback jet sweep and running up the gut with 26 seconds left and no timeouts was a head scratcher too. Both teams played like Champions. So much for a Wilson/MT rematch.

    Neuman Goretti will be back, no one can recruit like Albie, it will be interesting to see with Roman Catholic upping their game and NG having a coach who can attract stud players what affect this will have on Imhotep.

  78. Buddy says:

    @ kevin:

    That the first time, that I remember, NPTV ever live streamed an away game.

    They had to get permission from Downingtown and the PIAA. Frankly, don’t know how they got it.

    From what I heard, PIAA wants a wheelbarrow full of $ to broadcast a playoff game.

    Maybe because this is a high school program, as opposed to a public radio station.

    Just guessing here. Anyway, my season is over. But 2 years from now NP will be the team to beat.

    Count on it.

  79. Jut says:

    Why shouldn’t Montoursville be ahead of Wyomming in the Top 5 easternPa? Only lost is to SCA which any of your District 3 AAA schools would lose to too. They have a great team this year. You maybe right about district 3 schools in Aaa not losing to district 4 Aaa but your district gets byes in states playoff which means you play less games so ofc you can’t lose. So don’t say that. District 4 used to be a powerhouse with southern which still is, Mount Carmel and when Berwick used to be in District 4 years all going to the state championship. Wyomissing is a great team not saying anything against them. Hey I hope montoursvile and wyo play each other in states would be fun to watch.

  80. Jeff H says:

    @Foleman – yep, so much for NG. I think whoever wins the Eastern bracket is going to be at least a 2 TD underdog to Central Valley in the final, they beat a very solid Derry team last night 42-7 after racing to a 42-0 lead at half. Whoever comes out of the east better have a great secondary because if they don’t CV will torch them with some long passes, lots of speed and great athletes. I think CV will handle Aliquippa again next week at Heinz Field, then they get a bye and will likely meet Sharon in the west final and expect them to win that game fairly easily. I said on here after CV manhandled Aliquippa the last week of the regular season that they were the favorite to win 3A, I don’t think there’s a 3A team in the state that can match their speed and athleticism, time will tell, but in my opinion CV is a big favorite to win 3A.

  81. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, thanks for the NP/DTW stream info. I’m familiar with NPTV and their YT channel, but thinking it was an away game that they would not broadcast the game. Didn’t see any info on their website, Twitter, or YT channel that it would broadcasted. Checked at 7p, and there it was!!!!

    So, you guys spent a lot of time and effort on the merits of Wilson being the #1 seed vs MT. Guess that played out with a loud thud!!! Seeds, home field, number of D1 players…..all overrated in my book. The best team, or the best team this time of year, will eventually come out on top (barring really bad officiating, which is rarely the case).

    @ Foleman
    I believe we were the only ones mentioning PJPII during the season, and seeing them having a good chance to make a run. I thought them blowing that huge lead week 0/1 against RC would come back to bite them, and it kind of did, with them having to travel down to South Philly versus hosting the game (where ever that might have been). I don’t think N-G was overrated, and their schedule was ok (some decent PCL blue teams), but they were never really tested. Look for them to be a force next year tho.

  82. D3 Mike says:

    First time seeing Harrisburg this year. A few elite athletes and beef on the line but honestly that’s not the most sophisticated offensive system I’ve seen. I also thought Wilson moved the ball at will. Wilson owned the line of scrimmage and Lockhart ran thru tackles like it was his job… but the turnovers, drops (the screen to Frey? earlier in the final drive was also a TD) and broken coverages in the first half just killed them. That final run play burned way too much clock (and a down, IIRC?) but what I really question is why they played so much man coverage? So many what ifs from that one. Was an amazing game that deserved more than the 2/3 filled stadium it played to because of the frigid weather.

    Congrats to Harrisburg – should be a great final in D3-6A. And Warwick escapes past the #1 in the EPA poll to set-up a match up with a rolling Cocalico in the 5A semi-final.

  83. Buddy says:

    Obviously, this is the Chesmont league’s year. DTW has too much offense for NP.

    NP’s fumble in the 1st Quarter in their own zone might have been the game breaker.

    DTW goes up 14 to 3 at that point. That fumble Jay refers to below was a bit strange.

    I assume the refs hadn’t blown the whistle yet. Didn’t matter anyway. Wasn’t a game changer.

    Did PCC out west win? Don’t see that update.

  84. Jay says:

    Not that it matters now, but does anyone else think that the “lost fumble” and subsequent 30 yard penalty on Downingtown West midway through the third quarter was the absolute worst call of the year, and possibly many years?

    Dtown player fumbles the ball, and clearly falls on it. One of his teammates falls on it with him. Possession. On the ground. Dead ball. But wait! Then north penn players jump on top. There’s a scrum… North Penn ball! Oh and here’s TWO 15 yard penalties too.

    That referee crew should not be allowed to do another game this year, and honestly the PIAA should consider a longer suspension.

    That was the worst call I’ve ever seen in my life. And I’ve seen some bad calls.

  85. Uncle T says:

    Chief- I watched the Garnet Valley game as well and had the opposite reaction as you about that fake punt. If they don’t convert that, they could have given PW great field position and a chance to gain momentum. Instead, it put the game away for good and GV made all their substitutions on the next few downs. I took it as going for the jugular instead of any kind of running up the score.

    Anyway, it should be an interesting one next week, back at the scene of the classic ’17 final. ‘Ville is obviously the favorite, and will have the best 2 players on the field, but it’s been the Young brothers who have crushed Garnet Valley the past 2 years. If you remember that ’17 game, GV can be dangerously methodic (boring, if you will) when they don’t turn the ball over- they crippled themselves last year with turnovers, especially the pick 6 (not taking anything away from ‘Ville’s defensive scheming). This year’s Garnet Valley team is also the fastest of the past 3.

    I doubt Matt Ortega and crew would let it happen, but I think there’s a risk of Coatesville being a little overconfident given their history with GV and looking past this week towards a looming rematch with one of the Downingtowns (though it wouldn’t shock me if Haverford beats East tomorrow. Trey Blair of Haverford is a special player).

  86. Jay says:

    My initial thought about Garnet Valley is that it’s gonna be a tough match, but aside from a one-point win about a month ago, they really haven’t been tested aside from their early loss to D West.

    But the way Coatesville came out in the second half tonight gave me a tremendous amount of confidence in them going forward. They played excellent football and CBW had no answers.

    I think East wins tomorrow night, but does not beat West. West vs CV for the D1 chip – it’s what most people have been waiting for, right? With all due respect to the East folks.

    Question – since the eastern final was played out west last year, will it be played around here this year? (Dtown- CV area) anyone know how that works?

  87. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville and H-burg are still in it. Maybe a rematch of last year and that sloppy game week 1? Would be great to see DTE/DTW rematch — I think DTE will beat them — maybe:) Any thoughts on 3rd year in a row of Coatesville playing Garnet Valley? Would really like to see C’ville win again after I just watched GV do a fake punt up 21 points in the 4th (I’m thinking C’ville would of had their 2nd team in). Yeah, I know it’s the playoffs.

  88. Foleman says:

    Jeff H, you can put Pope John Paul as your darkhorse as they beat Neuman Goretti 29-28. I thought that PJP was under rated and NG over rated as NG played no one this year. Most folks out in District 3 think that Wyo will beat Middletown this year, we will find out next week at the A field. 6A semi’s in District 3 was as good as it gets in HS football. MT/CD rematch went into OT with CD winning and Wilson/Hburgh went down to the final play with Wilson at the Hburg 5 yard line a sure TD dropped by a Wilson player.

  89. Eric W/D3 says:

    Wilson down 33-29 @ HB 5 with no time on clock after a penalty in end zone. QB hits their best player RB/LB Lockhart right in the hands to win the game. He was wide open..drops the ball. Tough, tough loss for WWL. Wow!

  90. Mike A says:

    Great night for the Mid Penn Commonwealth
    Harrisburg beats #1 seed Wilson 33-29
    Central Dauphin beats undefeated and #2 seed Manheim Township 35-34 in 2 OT’s
    State College opens up a 35-7 lead and beats Erie McDowell by 3 TD’s 42-21

  91. Eric W/D3 says:

    Wilson on the H burg 5 with one second left down 33-29. There best player/rb Lockhart wide open, drops ball, right in his hands. Unbelievable. What a game. Tough loss for WWL

  92. Irish1 says:

    PJP 29 NG 28

  93. Irish1 says:

    PJP 29 NG 28……congrats to the Panthers, program built the old fashioned way defeats all star team.

  94. Buddy says:

    NP/DTW live on NPTVyoutube on Chrome.

  95. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – Wyomissing is #1 at PennLive only because both Central Valley and Middletown have 1 loss, albeit to a 4A team, and CV’s loss of course was to TJ, who I think in 2 weeks is going to give Erie Prep a heck of a game, should be in the Pittsburgh area this year and if so I will be there. I still think the 3A final will be CV vs. the winner of the Wyomissing/Middletown game, although Neuman Goretti is the dark-horse on the Eastern side of the bracket.

    @Colonial Fan – good luck tonight, always nice to see teams make a playoff run that haven’t been there before.

    @Kevin X – I’m not certain how the co-ops work with regard to enrollment, my understanding is both schools totals count but I’m not positive about that, perhaps there is some formula they use, there are some smaller schools in the WPIAL in Greene County that are considering going to a co-op arrangement due to small numbers of kids playing and if they do that I’m sure the local Pittsburgh media will explain how it works.

  96. Jay says:

    @ Kevin X

    I was going to go to Downingtown because I saw the CB West/Coatesville game listed on my NFHS app, but I checked today and the game is no longer listed, so it looks like I’m headed to Doylestown. Maybe.

    I really wanted to watch both games though. And even though I’m a Coatesville supporter, I’m more interested in the NP/Dtown game.

    Not sure but I better figure it out soon.

  97. Kevin X says:

    Old school radio stream of the North Penn @ Downingtown West game (7p) this evening…….

  98. Tornado Pride says:

    @ Kevin X


    WKMC is MCA’s own student operated TV station who have been around since 1968. They have been broadcasting games locally for many years and started doing the games live on YouTube since last year. They are broadcasting the game vs Troy tomorrow night and if they win, would likely do a District championship rematch against Southern next week. They do a fantastic job.

  99. Tornado Pride says:


    I wasn’t saying the Wilk kid was a Shamokin kid, I just know the dad was a standout football player/athlete at Shamokin in the early 90’s who at some point moved to Elysburg. My point was not to say the kid transferred to Southern for football, but to echo Racer X’s point that the migration of all these Shamokin and Mt. Carmel families is a key ingredient to Southern’s success. SCA is already unstoppable this year, so its hard to imagine them being that much better with another D1 kid on the team. I just assumed him transferring to Berwick had something to do with the fact that the dad played under Sheptock at Wilkes.

  100. ScottyB says:

    @ Kevin X – North Penn has a YouTube channel “NPTV” so they may be streaming the game on there.

  101. mark d says:

    @Kevin x Valley View and Berwick will be packed no matter the weather both community’s support thier teams well .Delaware Valley dont think many people from Wilkes Barra will be traveling that far.Dunmore and Mid Valley will draw a nice crowd MidValley up set Dunmore early in the season So they will be turning out to see if they can do it again pulse the towns border each other Western Wayne will have a crowd winning is new to them so the community is really behind the team the rest becuse the first meeting were so lopsided i doubt you get any attendance.Not like it was in the old day i remember the first Valley View Berwick game it drew over 10,000 people to crispin field and it was a cold December day

  102. D3 Mike says:

    Wyomissing has been to the state playoffs 4 times so it’s not exactly the largest of sample sizes. They won 3 of their district titles back when not every district winner made state playoffs. But yes, they are 3-0 vs. District 4, including two wins over Montoursville in the last decade or so. To be fair, Wyomissing didn’t win the district any of the years that the Mount Carmel or Southern Columbia teams would have drilled them (they played Mount Carmel in the early 2000s regular season, obviously non-league). And Berks Catholic has played Montoursville and Southern Columbia to mixed success so it’s not like District 4 doesn’t produce quality teams in those smaller classes.

    Frankly, most of the high school rankings aren’t great. It’s criminal that Warwick isn’t listed on EPA. Wyomissing probably should be #1 or #2 in the EPA behind no one but Middletown… but they also have no business being #1 on PennLive considering what county has been producing all of the state champs in that class, recently. Win some, lose some.

  103. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, late question, but does anybody have any links or other info to “free” video streaming links to any of tonight’s games?? Websites, Facebook, YouTube, misc. apps (Roku), etc.???

    The only one that I am aware of is possibly the Garnet/P-W game via the Garnet Valley Football YouTube channel.


  104. d3fan says:

    Montoursville ranked above Wyo in EPA poll ? C’mon – that’s not right. I can see Middletown – Wyo’s gotta beat them to climb that mountain – but Montoursville? When has Wyo lost to a D4 team in playoffs ? – maybe MCA back in the 80’s .

  105. ColonialFan says:

    @ Jeff H and NW PA

    Thank you for your detailed responses, appreciate the info. My son plays for Southern Lehigh so just looking down the road a bit. Gotta take care of business tonight first as we try to win the schools first district title in football.

  106. Brian says:

    Hey tornado fan. Wilk isn’t a shamokin kid. His mom graduated from southern in the early 90s with my brother and I graduated with his moms young we sister in the late 90s. Their family lived on market street in Elysburg so wilks mom was a southern raised. He left southern after his freshmen year because he wasn’t going to start at safety. As a freshmen he started because a junior was hurt and out for the entire season. That player came back his senior year and wilk transferred out.

  107. Kevin X says:

    OK guys, that decision time again, assuming I talk myself off the warm and comfy couch tomorrow and brave the cold, do I stay somewhat local and hit up the Coatesville/CB West game, or trek it down to Downingtown to see North Penn take on D-Town West, and maybe track down Buddy and buy him a hot chocolate 🙂

    Any of you C’Ville folk heading up to Doylestown tomorrow?? You guys do travel well.

  108. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA think your post was meant for Jeff H…… 🙂

    Since I got you western guys attention, as you were talking about Oil City, I took gandered rat the PIAA website, and their enrollment figs are actually within 3A. But they have 2 co-ops. That whole ECP and playing up to avid them is so out of whack. As far as co-ops go, you guys, or anybody knows how they figure into classification figures?? Do they combine the male enrollment for each school?? Does it depend on how many kids from the co-op school participates with the team??

    @ mark d

    Yikes, some not so exciting contests it seems upstate this weekend sans the Berwick/VV re-match. Between the weather and match-ups, anybody gonna be at these games??

  109. NW PA says:

    @KevinX: I’m rooting for Maplewood hard but unfortunately I don’t think they will win. Farrell has too much team speed. Farrell’s defensive backs are far better than anything Maplewood has come across and it looks like as a team Farrell is starting to hit it’s stride.

    @Colonial Fan: I think Jeff H pretty well summed up Oil City. No disrespect to their kids but in 5A they aren’t a top 25 team in the state. Their schedule consists of 3A teams and a few teams that play up to 5A to avoid Erie Cathedral. Warren (6-4) and General McLean (3-7) are both 4A but play up much like Oil City does. Meadville is the only true 5A team in this part of the state and they beat them twice in very close games. Beyond that they beat Conneut Area (3A 4-5), Franklin (3A 2-8), Girard (3A 4-6), Dubois (4A 0-10), Fort Lebouf (4A 5-6), and Slippery Rock (3A 4-6). Their schedule is pretty weak and I predict they will be exposed once they play an decent 5A team which will probably happen next Friday. If I were to guess they would be about the 12th seed in the WPIAL in 5A. They could beat Hollidaysburgh only because they are way down this year and have only beaten weak teams.

  110. Tornado Fan says:

    @Racer X

    Hard to believe but SCA had another Shamokin transplant Wilk who left after his freshman year for Berwick. He is now a 3x All Stater heading to ECU.

  111. District 3 Commish says:

    BTW…… 2012 is about to happen again

  112. Buddy says:

    @ Maher:

    I hope you’re right. I seen DTE play but I know nothing of Haverford.

    Rooting for Haverford though. NP would then pull a home game IF they can get by DYW ( doubtful).

    @ Jones:

    Sam Brown is out for LaSalle! That’s a bigger deal then Trotter being out for SJP, IMO.

  113. District 3 Commish says:

    This is the District 3 Champions by Seed from 1983 thru 2017. Keep in mind that over the years classifications increased from 3 to 4 to 6…… but the point is the 1 or 2 seed wins about 80% of the time.

    Not sure what year it switched to the power ranking system.

    6A CHAMPIONS BY SEED – only 2 years
    No. 1 seeds: 0 No. 2 seeds: 2
    No. 3 seeds: 0 No. 4 seeds: 0
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 0 No. 8 seeds: 0

    5A CHAMPIONS BY SEED – only 2 years
    No. 1 seeds: 0 No. 2 seeds: 1
    No. 3 seeds: 0 No. 4 seeds: 0
    No. 5 seeds: 1 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 0 No. 8 seeds: 0
    5 Seed winner was Harrisburg (Micah Parson mid-year transfer)

    No. 1 seeds: 15 No. 2 seeds: 7
    No. 3 seeds: 3 No. 4 seeds: 4
    No. 5 seeds: 1 No. 6 seeds: 2
    No. 7 seeds: 1 No. 8 seeds: 0
    No. 9 seeds: 0 No. 10 seeds: 0
    No. 11 seeds: 0 No. 12 seeds: 0
    No. 13 seeds: 0 No. 14 seeds: 0
    No. 15 seeds: 0 No. 16 seeds: 0

    No. 1 seeds: 24 No. 2 seeds: 5
    No. 3 seeds: 4 No. 4 seeds: 1
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 0
    No. 7 seeds: 1 No. 8 seeds: 1
    No. 9 seeds: 0 No. 10 seeds: 0
    No. 11 seeds: 0 No. 12 seeds: 0
    No. 13 seeds: 0 No. 14 seeds: 0
    No. 15 seeds: 0 No. 16 seeds: 0

    No. 1 seeds: 17 No. 2 seeds: 10
    No. 3 seeds: 5 No. 4 seeds: 3
    No. 5 seeds: 0 No. 6 seeds: 1
    No. 7 seeds

  114. Jeff H says:

    @ Colonial Fan – NW PA can give you more insight that I can, but Oil City is a 4A team playing up to avoid Erie Cathedral Prep, decent team but they haven’t played anybody of note, I would not be surprised if Hollidaysburg beats them this week, if they do get by Hollidaysburg expect them to lose next week to the Southern Lehigh/East Stroudsburg South winner. I know PennLive has them ranked #5 in the state, but I personally doubt they are in the top 20 in 5A, and probably every 5A team left in the WPIAL quarterfinals is better than them, no disrespect meant towards Oil City, they’ve had a magical season, but they are a small fish in the big pond of 5A.

  115. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X From what I’ve read and heard, what the Joneses says is correct. It wasn’t a simple break and he needed care at both the Rothman and CHOP. The prognosis is good with no long-term problems expected, but he almost certainly won’t be able to return even if the Prep has a game in December. It’s a significant loss for SJP, obviously.

  116. Jeff H says:

    For those that have an interest here’s my WPIAL outlook this weekend, I’ll stick to the top 4 classes since most guys on this board don’t follow the lower classes

    #4 Mt Lebanon vs. #1 Central Catholic – rematch of 2 weeks ago won by PCC 45-7, this game may be a little closer and I’m sure Bob Palko will have a few tricks up his sleeve, but PCC’s dominating DLine is way too much for Lebo to handle, I’ll say PCC 38-14

    #3 North Allegheny vs. #2 Pine Richland – another rematch from 2 weeks ago won by PR 42-14, think this game will be a lot closer but still like PR by 2 TD’s 35-21

    5A quarterfinals
    #1 Penn Trafford vs. #9 Upper St Clair – they played 2 years ago in this same round at West Mifflin, game tomorrow is at the exact same site, PT won that game 35-14, and I think this game will have a very similar outcome, in fact I’ll predict the same score 35-14. PT got key 2-way star Sam Fanelli back last week from a knee injury after being out for 6 weeks and he made an impact at LB, which bodes well for their chances to finally get over the hump and win a district title

    #2 Gateway vs. #7 Bethel Park – this game is a contrast in styles very similar to CB West vs. Coatesville, if Bethel can use their power run game and go on long drives and keep Gateway’s offense off the field they have a chance to make things interesting, think it will be close for awhile but Gateway has too many play-makers and too much team speed and will win 34-20

    #3 Penn Hills vs. #6 McKeesport – I thought a few weeks ago McKeesport had a good chance to pull an upset, but based on how they’ve played the last couple of games that seems pretty unlikely, I’ll take Penn Hills 27-14

    #4 Moon vs. #5 Peters Township – should be the best game of the bunch, Moon surprised a lot of people including myself by winning the regular season game 21-13, Peters has been rolling since that loss and expect them to win the rematch, I’ll go with Peters 28-20

    4A semi-finals

    #1 TJ vs. #4 Blackhawk – won’t be close, TJ in a rout and could be a mercy rule game, I’ll say 42-7

    #2 South Fayette vs. #2 Belle Vernon – anticipate a pretty competitive game but like South Fayette 31-20, setting up a rematch of last year’s WPIAL title game won by SF

    3A Semi-finals

    #1 Central Valley vs. #4 Derry – CV should roll, too many play-makers and team speed for Derry to keep up, CV 41-13

    #2 Aliquippa vs. #6 South Park – the Quips beat them 29-0 in the regular season and will handle them again, if they win Quips would make their 12th straight appearance at Heinz Field in the WPIAL finals which is an amazing streak

  117. Racer X says:

    Nice article on SCA football, but it failed to mention, in my opinion, the number one reason the program is what it is, the best in the state, and that is the influx of talented families/kids to Elysburg from mostly the Shamokin and Mount Carmel areas. Nothing against Roth and his staff, they are definitely the best around, but without those families moving into to Elysburg over the past 20 years they’d have little to work with. Not meant to be a put down or complaint but objectively looking at it all, this is absolutely why this football team is the best in the state right now,

  118. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X- I think Trotter is lost for the season. I think LaSalle may have lost stud Sam Brown as well. Either way they both put up 45+ points last week. I wonder if either eclipses 30pts on Saturday.

  119. Jeff H says:

    @NW PA – I was wondering if you thought Maplewood had a shot against Farrell, I am anticipating a Farrell vs. Clairton match-up in 3 weeks in the Western Final. I’m not so sure Oil City beats Hollidaysburg, think they are better than Meadville and Oil City struggled to beat them last week. I also think ECP is not going to have too much trouble with University Prep, might be close for a little while, but I’d be surprised if ECP doesn’t win by 3-4 TDs. McDowell vs. State College should be a very competitive game that could go either way.

    @Eric W/D3 – agree both of them should be great games, 2 of the best in the state this weekend, I also like Harrisburg, as you noted too much speed and Harrisburg is healthy, I’ve gone back and forth on MT vs. CD, I did pick MT to get to the state final, so I’ll stick with them, but think this game will go to the wire and team that has the ball last might be the winner.

  120. ColonialFan says:

    @NW PA
    Can you give me a little more info on Oil City. Undefeated, so obviously a good team, but what’s their league like? Beating up on smaller schools, quality wins against other 5A’s or 6A’s?

  121. JC says:

    Some good games in D11 this week too:

    6A – Nazareth-Easton is likely a big win for Nazareth, Easton has been really shaky against the top tier of the EPC. Freedom-Parkland will be a great game, Freedom won by 3 last time, but Parkland is on a roll, I pick them to get revenge.
    5A – Southern Lehigh and Eastburg South have been on a collision course all season. This could wind up being a shootout, but ultimately I think Solehi scores more.
    4A – Two great games. Northwestern-Central Catholic and Pottsville-Bethlehem Catholic games are both toss-ups. I pick Northwestern and Becahi to pull it out but it could easily go the other way.
    3A – Another great game. North Schuylkill has rallied around Leiby, but Tamaqua is hungry. Ultimately I side with the pedigree of the Spartans.
    1A – Williams Valley blew out Tri-Valley earlier this year, I expect more of the same.

  122. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    What’s the story/issue with Trotter?? Out for a few games, the rest of the season??

  123. mark d says:

    Up in D2 Del Valley over Wilkes Barre by 3 touchdowns in AAAAAA in AAAA Bewick at Valley View good game calling it a toss up Creastwood at Dallas mercy rule game AAA Western Wayne at Scranton Prep Prep by 2 touchdowns a month ago i would have picked Western Wayne but Prep has up it game AAA Lake Lehman at Wyoming area mercy rule game AA Mid-valley at Dunmore mercy rule game and in A Lackawanna trail and morrisville dont know anything about morrisville to comment

  124. William Maher says:

    Buddy thinks DTE beats Haverford easily. I don’t think so! Haverford is a very good team. That’s the best matchup of this weekend coming up.

  125. NW PA says:

    Predictions from the northwestern part of the state-6A: If McDowell has Blue and Lopez they should win a close game, if they don’t I’m not sure. Both players have been beat up since the loss to Cathedral. 5A: Oil City probably beats Hollidaysburg because Hollidaysburg is down and has no quality wins. 4A: Cathedral should win against USO Prep. The weather is supposed to be cold in Pittsburgh Friday so maybe it will be a game for a half. 3A: I like Sharon to beat Harborcreek in a close game and Hickory over Grove City also in another close one. 2A: Wilmington over Greenville, they should have no problem they already rolled them. 1A: Farrell over Maplewood even though I’m rooting for the Tigers.

  126. Eric W/D3 says:

    Should be two slobberknockers on Friday. WWL has 40 D3 playoff wins and 7 D3 titles. Plus are 12-4 @ home (in post season) under current coach… but I think too much speed and monster OL makes the difference for HBurg. HB, 30-20. Coin flip between CD and MT, but on a hunch will say CD 21-20. Four great teams!!

  127. Mike A says:

    @Jay There is a 2019 western forum but nobody posts or their posts are never moderated and displayed!

  128. Jeff H. says:

    @Foleman – District 3 could go to a selection committee like the WPIAL does, or place a lot more emphasis on head to head, As D3 Mike and JC have pointed out, and I have previously as well, any point system that ranks a team that is 9-1 ahead of a team that is 10-0 and beat the other team on their home field by 16 points has some flaws that should be addressed. Obviously no system is perfect, and neither is the selection committee in the WPIAL, but Wilson as the #1 seed ahead of MT just doesn’t pass the eye test, and those rankings would have been reversed by the selection committee had those teams been in the WPIAL. The 5A seedings in D3 are also a mess, how Cocalico got the #1 seed is beyond my comprehension, I expect Warwick to handle them pretty easily next week, assuming they get by MC again on Friday, when the 2 best teams in the district are seeded #4 and #5 there’s something wrong with the system and adjustments should be made going forward, particularly when home field advantage is at stake. Personally I think the home field advantage will be a moot point because I have a feeling Harrisburg is going to beat Wilson on Friday, we’ll see!

  129. David Mika says:

    Jay….You are welcome to talk about teams from the west on here…

  130. Jay says:

    Hey isn’t there a forum for western football site anymore? I remember a few years ago it didn’t get much traffic but last year it did. Did it get discontinued? Any way to bring it back??

  131. FrankG says:

    @Uncle T. Of course Northeast would have a chance against SJP. Many of us who’ve been around SJP for a while vividly recall the 2006 PCL Championship when the Prep lost a bizarre game to LaSalle, a game they went into as a 4-5 touchdown favorite. Chris Whitney made a second effort to score but lost the ball as he was about to cross the goal line; LaSalle returned it for a 99-yard TD–a 14 point difference. SJP made a couple of other turnovers deep in LaSalle territory and lost 14-7. Sometimes once a heavily favored team gets behind in a big game, stress levels go way up and they start making uncharacteristic mistakes. Then there are the effects of difficult weather conditions.. Anyone remember LaSalle-GW in the city championship game in 2008? There were strong wind gusts throughout which neutralized LaSalle’s excellent passing game that relied on very carefully timed plays. Without the gusts, LaSalle almost certainly would have won by 2-3 TDs.

    Northeast has talent; they’ve been to city championships the last few years; they would go into the game loose and will probably be playing at home; the Prep will be playing without Trotter and will be coming off a game against LaSalle (always an intense rivalry game that I’m not taking for granted as a Prep win) etc. All that said, a Northeast win over the Prep would be a huge upset-but not the greatest upset ever!

  132. Kevin X says:

    It would also be interesting if we could have dropped LaSalle and Northeast into the D1, D3, or D11 brackets to see how they would have faired without this road block of SJP.

  133. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy, etc….

    Unfotunately looks like you’re going to have to bundle up and avoid the deer heading south on Rte. 100 b/c the streaming from chesmontfootball/3CTV is done fo the year.

    From their website:

    It’s been a great bringing you high school football every Friday night with our Game Day Live program.

    But because of a lack of business sponsorship, we are unable to bring you any of the remaining PIAA District One playoff game.

    – The Ches-Mont Football/3CTV Crew

  134. JC says:

    Not necessarily a D12 guy, but it would be interesting to see how far Northeast could get if a miracle happens and they were the D12 champ. There’s a lot of talent on that team, and they’d have more than a fighting chance against the D11 champ. SJP being as good as they are is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does rob the 6A bracket of a lot of intrigue they would otherwise have. The PPL may have a ton of terrible teams in it, but the top division is always solid, and you have to be a dang good team to win it.

    Anyway, to your question Uncle, I think they have the ability to trade some blows early on. But if they’re overconfident they will get their doors blown off. Time will tell.

  135. Uncle T says:

    per last post- Obviously not PCL, but D12

  136. Uncle T says:

    PCL guys: what do you make of Northeast this year? They have some decent early season wins, including an impressive blanking of Haverford School, and the slim win over a down Imhotep, but their schedule other than that (and the loss to a good Episcopal team) is cream puff city. I’ve read some pretty positive reports on their squad this year but haven’t seen them at all. Do you think they have enough to at least put a first half scare into SJP in 2 weeks?

  137. FrankG says:

    @ Kevin X There is a credible rumor that some teams in PA did not make the playoffs. For such teams having their seasons end on October 25th would seem likely to dampen any expectations they have for next year. I’m not arguing for including even more teams in the playoffs but for having a longer regular season and for including fewer teams in the playoffs. Qualifying for the playoffs should be more of an accomplishment.

  138. Kevin X says:

    @ FrankG

    Wait, are you saying that there were teams that actually didn’t make the playoffs???

  139. FrankG says:

    Anyone else find it quite sad that the teams that didn’t make the playoffs had their season end five or six days before the World Series ended and that half the rest of the teams had to hang up their cleats by November 2nd? I loved having a Thanksgiving game to look forward to. We can’t go all the way back, but modifications could be made.

  140. Kevin X says:

    @D3 Mike

    Those numbers / %’s are disturbing, yet not totally unexpected. Hopefully, we got rid of the dead wood and teams that had no business playing in a playoff game last weekend and improve those numbers for this upcoming weekend’s slate of games.

  141. Buddy says:

    @ Kevin:

    Downingtown from where I live is a bit of a haul ( Bally )

    Plus it’s gonna be cold as hell ( can’t handle that like I used to).

    But if it’s not live streamed, I simply have to go.

  142. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Possible NP/DTW will be on 3CTV/

    If so, yes it would/should it be on YT via the chesmontfootball channel.

    With that said, who know if there will even be a game streamed this week by them, guess depends like last week, if they get/have the funds. Either that or their request during the Week 10 game was just ploy for more funds. Also they may opt to broadcast the Rustin/WCE game, the Shanahan game since it is for a District title, or maybe even wait until Saturday for the DTE/Haverford game (IMO, the best game of the 4 D1 6A match-ups).

    Check back later in the week on their website for updates (or I’ll toss something up here if I see something as well).

    No road trip for you on Friday????

  143. D3 Mike says:

    lol oh, I’m OK guys. As I said, I’ve grown accustomed to the parochialism and bias. It’s fine to be a fan but have some self awareness when talking about your team and other area programs. This is par for the course, though: me attempting to contribute something those outside of the area might not know; the JV team responding with school fight songs and personal attacks. That said, what our commish was grasping for was that I need a blue pill, not that I need a “purple pill” for my other shortcomings. At least get your memes straight!

    Of note from this weekend – here’s a breakdown of first round games decided by two or fewer TDs:

    6A: 16%
    5A: 19%
    4A: 9%!!
    3A: 21%
    2A: 52%
    1A: 35%

    Sort of surprised how competitive the small-school classes were so far. We’ll see how well the trend holds up. 4A on the other hand…

  144. Buddy says:

    @ chief:

    C’ville has to contain the run. Then they win.

    CBW passing game is poor ( at least against NP it was).

    I see C’ville winning this. DTE should win easily.

    NP pass defense is their weakest link. Shore that up and they might have a chance against DTW.

    Again, I assume the NP/DTW game will be live streamed on 3CTV?

    I get that on the youtube? Not the most computer literate person here.

  145. LL LEAGUE 21 says:

    Manheim Twp. coach is Mark Evans and he played tackle at U of Miami during their championship years. He has been around a long time with some success at other schools. This group of seniors have been together and won everything since 3rd grade so they bring it weekly. They have blazing speed in Ivey and a few tall wideouts that can grab it over you. The running game is sneaky good and the line smart and athletic. CD was able to manage this offense without Ivey but it will be much more difficult this week. Then again CD has improve a great deal too so I think this will be TWP’s most difficult battle in districts. Sorry Wilson fans but your blitz packages wont work so well this time as Twp. is seeing that every game now. The thing is MT defense is tough and they are aggressive at the right times. D coordinator has won state championships with another school and he knows what he is doing.

  146. sausmann9 says:

    oops, double post. please delete either of the two. tx.

  147. sausmann9 says:

    pretty cool article on SCA

    also hearing good things about Jayden Lieby’s recovery (stable but critical). seems a reporter in the LV area is keeping up to date with his progress. Thoughts and prayers to you #6 – stay strong and keep your faith! You have an entire state of football loving brothers that got your back and have your prayers!!!!!!!

  148. Buddy says:

    @ anyone:

    Does anyone know if the NP/DTW game is live stream? If so, where?

    I’m chomping at the bit here!

  149. Foleman says:

    I don’t know what District 3 can use that would be better than the current system. Any suggestions? More emphasis on head to head? Wilson got a huge boost by beating an extremely over rated Spring Ford-Pope John Paul-A class 3A school gave them everything they could handle before getting worn down in the 4th quarter and they just got mercy ruled in the opening round of District 1 6A playoffs. In addition, Manheim Central got blown out by Wilson and Warwick and has their weakest team in years. Wilson’s out of conference schedule was more difficult than Manheim Township’s but going undefeated and beating Wilson at home and not getting the #1 seed doesn’t seem logical.

  150. sausmann9 says:

    pretty cool article on SCA out of Lehigh Valley Morning Call

    Also the Lehigh Valley has been giviing updates on Jaden Leiby out of North Schuylkil and for as terrible as an injury he sustained, they keep reporting that he is getting better (still in critical cond but stable cond). thoughts and prayers go out to this young man and his family.

    To the Leiby’s; stay strong and keep your faith!

  151. phillyboy says:

    JC, also, who cares about the local rankings, just win your dog gone games and everything will work itself out. Look at LaSalle, they usually get bounced in the second round every year due to the nature of the structure of the tournament. Just win your games.

  152. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hang in there D3 Mike. Hey everybody, let’s talk about something less tedious — like SC again 🙂

    On a serious note: Any comments on my Red Raiders vs. CB West? (I can’t even find any CBW games on video). Not sure if comparing a common opponent like Souderton means anything — but I hope it does. Don’t sleep on DTE or NP.

  153. JC says:

    The way some of you are coming at D3 Mike is ludicrous. Nothing in his posts has come across to me as “biased”, “insecure”, or “myopic”. It does not take a genius to see that Wilson being ranked above Manheim Township is out of sorts. Pointing out that fact also does not mean that that’s the only thing wrong with the system, or that there’s some sort of “shot” being taken at a school.

    This board has a serious problem with people dishing out trash talk, but once someone comes at you, they lose all sense of a logical argument and start whining about bias. News flash, that just makes you look less credible than you were before. If just making a point makes you feel like someone is taking a “shot” at you, then take a step back and look at yourself as to why you’re so insecure about teenagers playing a game.

  154. Jiminey Cricket says:

    @D3 Mike,

    Just to be clear I have no faded varsity Football Jacket from Wilson. However I have been watching football not just around the district but around the country and find your pedestrian and biased views of D3 significant. Should you like to discuss football in a tangible and meaningful way that draws on more than just your myopic truth please ask to meet and I will advise you where we sit for the Wilson games while I stream multiple games from around the country on my iPads. Good luck with your recruiting efforts.

  155. District 3 Commish says:

    D3 Mike you are as biased and insecure as they come. Tell the whole story on D3 rankings this year

    5A – Cocalico is the one seed and has two losses with one coming to MC who is the 4 seed. Warwick killed MC, is 8-2 and is the 5 seed and must go to MC to play them. Shippensburg is undefeated and is the 3 seed. Justify all that you Twit!

    6A – Red Lion and Chambersburg were both 6-4 and beat Chambersburg, but they finished 9th directly behing them and missed the playoffs

    If you want to take a shot at a school be prepared and tell the whole story. They make purple pills for your other shortcomings!

  156. D3 Mike says:

    Sir Cricket, you’ll have to forgive me for tapping out after this post. I don’t want to bore the forum further by endlessly retreading the same ground of D3 football politics and Berks County parochialism that I’m sure most could care less about.

    You’re welcome to think that a) being a fan and b) noting that your team benefitted from a broken formula is a binary choice. It’s still a free country. You’re welcome to think that the system D3 has had in place since all of 2010, that it tweaked in 2011, and that it tweaked again in 2016 “has been consistent for many years”. Webster’s would disagree with your definitions of “consistent” and “many”, but whatever. Again, free country. You’re welcome to reduce a view I share with the vast majority of unbiased football fans to “an opinion”, just as my contention that the moon-landing actually took place is “an opinion”. You’re welcome to think that Wilson being hurt by this same system, previously, has anything to do with whether the formula should be modified or not. That’s another false binary choice (BTW, Wilson has never been hurt by this system’s math, ever. D3 posts all brackets back to 2010 so it’s easy to refute that abject rationalization with a modicum of effort). Finally, you’re welcome to think a 20-13 playoff game is “not in doubt”. Think whatever you like, and people can decide for themselves whether your views have merit or if you’re just another alum whose faded varsity jacket has started to restrict blood flow. As it stands, I guess my high school football “credentials” are a basic familiarity with Google, a car that will take me further than West Lawn, and finely honed critical thinking skills (see above)?

    P.S. I won’t be at the BC game next weekend. I drew the booster club short straw so it’s my turn to hit the recruiting trail and work on next year’s crop of talent!

    Phillyboy, Thanks. MT probably has the most balanced team in the district and because of their playmakers, they would have a puncher’s chance against Prep. But they are realistically 3-4 TDs behind, so it would take them winning the turnover battle by 2+, plus a lot of other breaks just to keep it close. Their wideouts are very good – tall, fast, athletic – and their QB is heading to Colgate. I believe they also have a youngish head coach who was a WR in the CFL so I’d have to think with that offensive scheme and their talent level they’d be able to move the ball. To be fair, I haven’t seen Prep play on TV since Trotter got hurt and I’m not sure how well their current back-7 matches up against non-Florida-Football-Factory level offenses? You tell me. My guess is that it would probably be similar to the Harrisburg game last year, at best. That said, and as I said at the start of the playoffs, MT is 50/50 to even get out of the district and they’d only be slight favorites against the D1 winner. It’s sort of a shame because if you were to take Prep out of the equation there would be 10 teams with a legitimate shot to win a state title this year (I’d even throw LaSalle in there!). D1, D3, D11, WPIAL… just a lot of parity across PA in 6A.

  157. phillyboy says:

    @D3 Mike– Not to put you on the spot, man, but your writing is fantastic. I also take pride in being able to express myself well (as I huff on my finger nails and subsequently buff them on my chest) but phillyboy is a mere amateur masquerading as a big shot, whereas D3 Mike is the real deal, er, a professional. Like a D1 player on an otherwise mediocre high school football team, it’s noticeable. Now that I puffed you up, let me get your thoughts on something. Been hearing good things about this Manheim Township team. Seems that they’re the leading candidate to be the sacrificial lamb for Saint Joe’s Prep in the state final (although I wouldn’t be surprised one iota if Coatesville makes some noise, having a latent anger, a stoic sense of postponed justice). What do you think though, does MT have the goods to pull off an upset rivaling the 1980 USA ice hockey team over the Soviet Union, Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson, or Chaminade over Virginia?

  158. Jiminey Cricket says:

    D3 Mike, so you live in Wilson SD and say “I don’t know where you get I don’t like Wilson…but only fans of Wilson think they earned the #1 seed” which is it, fan or dislike, pick one. Regardless of your opinion, the District 3 math has been consistent for many years and some times it has cut for and against Wilson, this year the math favored them, other years it hasn’t and the title game has been neutral field. Personally I’d prefer the championship game at a neutral site, but that’s not it the cards so it’s time to move on. The best team should win regardless of where the game is played. So if the fan base is so parochial perhaps you can dazzle us all with your credentials. Finally last night’s game was really not in doubt 56 seconds into the 3rd quarter when wilson scored their 20th unanswered point. This week brings a new challenge in Harrisburg, they need to go 1-0 this week to advance, good luck to every team playing this week for success and for the players to stay healthy and without any major injuries!

  159. Jeff H says:

    @Kevin X & BucksCountty Fullback – you guys beat me to the punch, I was going to respond to NW PA that it’s far from certain that ECP would have won the last 3 5A titles. With that being said ECP vs. Wood in 16/17 would have been tremendous games, I would make AW a one score favorite but ECP was loaded too, would have been a heavyweight slugfest in the old 4 class setup. That’s one of the many downsides to 6 classes, we get blowouts in 4A and 5A in 16/17 when in 4 classes would have had classic match-ups. But at least a few more teams get a trophy or a runner-up plaque thanks to the PIAA.

    @d3 MIke – i agree with you about D3 6A this year, the qualify and depth of top end teams is second to none, definitely better than the WPIAL, D11 and IMO D1 as well. Tremendous match-ups this weekend, both games could go either way, MT better get this last game out of their system or CD is going to take it to them next week, think at least one and maybe both of the road teams win.

  160. D3 Mike says:

    Also, I have no idea where you’d get that I don’t like Wilson. I live in Wilson, go to all of the home games (well, not McCaskey). I’m on the Mike Drago chat “each week” (meaning the past 2 weeks) telling Mike and the rest of the parochial fans in Berks that it is absolute lunacy that Wilson has the #1 seed over Manheim Township – because it IS lunacy to everyone but supporters of the team and the sports reporter who wants to keep selling them newspapers. That doesn’t mean I don’t like Wilson. I simply think it’s Wilson who should be playing Central Dauphin this week and that the district final should be at Manheim. BTW, how many people will mention on this week’s chat that Wilson deserved the 1-seed because they beat “league undefeated” Spring Ford and MT didn’t?…

  161. D3 Mike says:

    Sweet Jesus, it was tight into the 3rd quarter, not into the 4th quarter. Again, I tried to cover an entire district in one post. 3rd quarter, not 4th quarter. Millersburg not Millersville. Probably some other errors in those 6 paragraphs, too. My point was simply to convey that the game was more competitive than the 41-13 final score, not to knock Wilson, who as you noted controlled the line of scrimmage (as they have all season). But what I watched was two teams head to the locker room tied, and I can’t remember the last time I could say that about a 1-seed in a first-round game. It was a commentary on the strength of the district this year, not a slight directed at Wilson.

  162. Eric W says:

    How could you say the WWL/Chambersburg game was a tight one into the 4th? Chambersburg didn’t score a pt. after the 1st Q and Wilson scored 41. C burg RB had a 54 yd td on the 4th play of the first drive and was 14-30 after that. Plus WWL had 370 yds rushing. CB did absolutly niothing after the first two drives? I’m confused at what you were watching. WWL OL/DL dominated

  163. Mike A says:

    Manheim Township has the ability to move the ball up and down the field very quickly. They have 3-4 nice receivers, several good backs and a QB who is accurate and on time with his passes most of the time. Their ‘O’ line gave him ample time to survey the field until someone broke open. CV was able to buckle down several times and hold them, sometimes with the aid of a penalty. Also, the CV defense picked off two Kirk passes stalling Manheim Township drives. Manheim Township turned to ball over several times on fumbles (a muffed punt and a crunching hit of the punt return man as he caught the ball) inside their own 30 and CV was able to punch it in against their defense. CV scored 26 points on a defense that had only given up 55 points in 10 games although they were aided by shorter field on several of those occasions. Manheim Township has a very good and diversified offense and a stout defense. CV’s runs came mostly inside as the Township defense swarmed any wide running plays. CV gave them trouble on several types of misdirection pass plays and a few slant passes. The difference in the game was the pass blocking. CV’s QB was constantly under pressure. Manheim Township probably had at least 5-6 sacks and many hurries. On the other hand Kirk was able to stay in the pocket or move from side to side with little to no pressure on most pass attempts . Good game by both teams. All in all Township is a very solid team very capable of making a run at the state finals but they need to tighten up their ball security if they are going to win D3 and move on.The second round rematch with Central Dauphin should be a good one. Manheim Township won the first one 10-7. Central Dauphin has improved since the early season losses and has a lot of play makers also. I would expect a few more points the second time around.

  164. Jiminey Cricket says:

    D3 Mike. Fully realize that you don’t particularly like Wilson after watching your posts in Mike Drago’s chat each week, but I have a hard time believing you were at the Wilson game last night since Wilson scored 41 unanswered points after midway through the second quarter and held the Chambersburg offense to about 100total yards after those first 13 points scored. The game was never in question after the 2nd of 4 TDs scores in the 3rd quarter. Enjoy your BC game today and good luck!

  165. Kevin X says:

    Let me stand corrected before some of you guys take me behind the woodshed………

    “ECP, nor anyone else in PA regardless of classification, other than SJP (which they did twice) or the Pine Richland 2017 team, would have beaten those 2016 and 2017 Archbishop Wood teams.” 🙂

  166. D3 Mike says:

    Great night for football! As expected, a lot of close games but not a lot of upsets in D3. I was at Wilson v Chambersburg, which despite the final score, was a tight one into the 4th (and 13-13 at halftime). Wilson plays Harrisburg next Friday in what should be a great contrast of styles game and revenge for the Wilson seniors after an ugly district semifinal loss last year. We’ll see if Wilson has the speed and height in the secondary to keep up – which was really their problem vs Manheim Township earlier this year.

    Speaking of, MT struggled against Cumberland Valley’s wing-T offense – which no one runs in 5A and 6A anymore. (Side note: I honestly think Central Dauphin added Berks Catholic (who also runs that offense) non-league last year partly to to defend against the offense once before playing their rival, CV). Anyways, we’ll see if MT got it out of their system before taking on a red hot Central Dauphin squad next week. The two did play a 10-7 game in September but MT controlled the action more than the score suggests. That was also before sophomore (Penn State offer) WR Ivey came back from injury to give MT their best deep threat.

    Anyone who tells you they know what’s going to happen in those 6A semi-finals is lying. Could go either way. All 4 are good enough to lose to Prep. Any of the 4 could be done with football next Friday.

    In 5A, #8 seed Mifflin rolled into what could be the upset special in D3 next weekend as they get a rematch with a #1 Cocalico squad they played close in September. Also in 5A it will be #5 Warwick and #4 Manheim Central in what most consider the 5A final, two weeks too early.

    Small surprise was Steel High getting knocked out. They were the favorites for many in 2A… until the district ruled their star RB transfer from Middletown ineligible on Tuesday. Why they wait until right before the playoffs to rule on these cases is beyond me. I guess to spare themselves from having to rule on kids who won’t even be in the playoffs? But it sure makes planning hard for the coaches. Delone also historically plays Steel High well so congrats to them on the win.

    Finally, Millersville, in their final season of football, wins the D3-1A championship. With a 3-8 record lol. But seriously, good for those kids to send the program out on a high note. They will be merging with 11-0, 2A Upper Dauphin, who will hopefully provide some competition to Wyo, Middletown & Lancaster Catholic in 3A next year. Not sure how many 1A and 2As D3 will even have left for next cycle.

  167. Buddy says:

    I don’t see the CBW/C’ville game that close. One thing that might prove me wrong is that it’s at CBW.

    Not surprised by the Haverford but I am surprised on how big.

    NP/DTW! What can I say!? I have no idea on that one.

    BTW, 3CTV live streams 3 teams. C’ville and the two D-Towns.

    If someone finds out if they are covering the NP/DTW game please let me know.

  168. Kevin X says:

    @ NW PA

    ECP, nor anyone else in PA regardless of classification, other than SJP (which they did twice), would have beaten those 2016 and 2017 Archbishop Wood teams.

  169. Kevin X says:

    This probably would have had a little more credence if I posted this yesterday or earlier the week, but still going toss out there a long range prediction of the D1/D3 6A State semi-final match-up as being Round 4, the 4th meeting in the past 2 seasons, of Coatesville and Harrisburg. Yeah kind of boring, same old same old, but we’ll see as the weekends unfold.

  170. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    Funny, I was watching that DTE/C’Ville replay, and in the back of my head remember that mention of the Bryant personal foul, so I was keeping a close eye out for it. Then the push out of bounds play happened, saw a flag fly in the background, and thought, yeah, you gotta to be kidding. But I understand being at a game, sometimes you either don’t have the best view, the refs look (or are) clueless in their decision making, or the PA announcer his asleep at the wheel, as doesn’t properly fill in the crowd of what is going on. So kudos fo you for clarifying the situation on your end.

    Speaking of getting your wish, me as well!!! Power outage in the greater Central Bucks area yesterday, assuming from the weather the night before, knocked out power at CB West and the game was postponed to tonight at CBWest @7p, providing power is restored. If not by 2p, the game will be moved to Pennridge HS tonight at 7p. Not wishing people to be without power, especially on cold morning, but love for them to move the game to Pennridge. Either way, I have another game tonight!!! Heard the NP/CBSouth game was in jeopardy as well due to no power, but they got their power back and game went on as scheduled. Guessing CB South wished the power was out for just a little longer.

  171. BuckscountyFB says:


    There was no 5A 4 years ago and cathedral prep was not beating the Wood teams of 2016 and 2017.

    Will be interesting what Wood does next cycle as they are a 4A playing up to 5A. If we go back to 4 classifications not sure they would still be a 3A, but probably are.

  172. Chief Red Raider says:

    Mike A: Good for Cumberland Valley — my gut was telling me they could pull an upset. How do you assess MT? Folks on this site have them taking on SJP in the final, but I’m doubtful of that — I think a D3 team will knock them out first.

    Anyone have a prediction on the DTW/NP game? I’m thinking NP has a great chance, especially after the way Pennsbury ran the ball on DTW in the first half. With that said, however, DTW can turn it on pretty fast. I’m guessing C’ville will play CBW — any thoughts on that? Souderton beat CBW — that bodes well for C’ville — they scored 49 points on Souderton in a little over 8 minutes in Q2 and sat their starters the 2nd half (While DTW was scoring another TD late with starters in — just sayin’:))

  173. Jay says:

    Well, got my wish and was able to head down Lincoln highway to Kottmeyer Stadium for the second half which started all knotted up at 28. D West brought their A-game and won by four TDs.

    Coatesville started off slow and trailed 7-0 after the first quarter, but came alive in grand fashion and led 49-7 at the half. Someone verify this… I left a couple minutes before the half and they were up 42-7 and Dapree Bryant had just pulled in an interception. Pretty sure their seventh score was before half.

    Really pulling for Ridley tomorrow, but assuming CB West wins, next Friday is gonna be the toughest choice of the year between traveling to CBW to see Coatesville vs driving ten minutes to see D West vs North Penn. Probably will end up streaming one and going to the other. West in a very close tough game.

    Also good call to whoever below picked Haverford.

  174. New2PA says:

    I think if McCord, Harrison, and Trotter left SJP, P-R might think about staying 6A. And thinking ahead to 5A next year, will the WPIAL semifinals and finals be harder games than playing NA and PCC like they had to do in 17 and maybe this year in 6A. Doubtful.

    You can’t always trust comparison scores, but P-R mercy ruled 5A Moon who beat Peters by 2 TDS. Peters is one of three favorites to win WPIAL 5A. Unless 5A has 6 or 7 great teams Next year, P-R’s first two playoff games should be halftime mercy rule games.

  175. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley nearly pulls the upset

    Leading 26-24 with a little over 3 minutes left CV had undefeated Manheim Township on the ropes. CV had just moved into Manheim territory and was 6 yards from a first down and coming close to running out the clock with a 2nd and 6 when Manheim called the first of it remaining three time outs. On the next play an off tackle run resulted in a bobble and ultimately a fumble that Manheim recovered. With new life Manheim moves down the field converting some nice passes and scores the winning TD with 1:07 left. Congrats to both teams on a great game!

    Manheim Township 32
    Cumberland Valley 26


  176. Buddy says:

    How the heck did they ( NP ) lose to them (CBS) 2 weeks ago?!? Maybe CBS was missing some of their top guns tonight, I don’t know.

    NP didn’t improve that much in 2 weeks. Then again it is playoff ( knight) time.As of this typing, not sure of the DTW/ Pennsbury match.

    Assuming it’s DTW, there’s a helluva match ( NP/DTW) brewing for next week !

  177. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    After watching the replay of that game, I saw that it was a sideline warning. A lot of people in the crowd near me didn’t even know what the call was. And judging by Dapree Bryant’s reaction to the flag, it seemed like a personal foul call. But I now see that I was mistaken. I still think the pass interference call was iffy though!

    Souderton out to a decent start against Coatesville so far, up a score. I was hoping for a blowout so I could pull the Lincoln Double and catch the second half of the Dtown West game.

  178. Kevin X says:

    Hey Chief, unfortunately I can’t help on the Soudy/C’Ville stream. I was interested in the game myself from the Big Red side of things. I was expecting the game to be the 3CTV game this week, and not the DTW/Pennsbury game. I watched the replay of the C’Ville/DTE game the other night, and they were asking for local businesses to step up for sponsorships and individuals for donations, as they were saying the playoff games cost more to produce (higher fees I guess, D1??, PIAA??). Guess they got their wish, but maybe the donors/sponsors wanted the DTW game. Speaking of the C’Ville/DTE game, one of you C’Ville guys mentioned last weekend about some bad calls, and from an unbiased point of view, I cannot concur with you. That Bryant so called push out of bounds personal foul, don’t know what game you were at or watching, but that was a sideline warning against DTE. The pass interference call the play before, really could have gone either way. The DTE receiver was tripped.

  179. NW PA says:

    @Jeff H: Erie Cathedral has had really low numbers on their JV team 2 years in a row. They will always have good kids and I heard their freshmen team was good but I think you will see a rebuilding year or two while they are up in 5A. The last 4 years they probably would have won the 5A title but I don’t think that will be the case next year or even the year after that.

  180. D3 Mike says:

    That’s interesting about Pine Richland. Question: if they had lost a tight game to St. Joe’s Prep last year instead of a blowout, do you think they take a more serious look at just staying at 6A? The WPIAL 5A is already brutal. These changes make it more so. And with the brackets supposedly switching back to D3-D7 next year it’s not like the 6A winner historically has had all that much trouble with State College and the D3 winner to get to Hershey. I’m thinking just to get there a western team will have an easier path in 6A than 5A, although I guess that depends on where ECP gets placed in the 5A bracket next year. Even the WPIAL 5A semi-finals next year will be can’t-miss, though.

    Do all of the reclassifications get done simultaneously are is there a “pending” or review period? For example, do all of the D10 schools have a chance to see where ECP is going to go next cycle before deciding what class to register at?

  181. Jeff Hoener says:

    @Buddy – Ridley didn’t do so well stopping the run in the regular season against Haven and GV, and I think they are going to struggle to stop West tonight, we’ll see! You’re right about the weather, after a mild fall thus far it’s finally football weather!

  182. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I agree with your district picks, like Manheim Township to win and also beat the D1 rep and play SJP in the state final, I also think Warwick has a very good chance to get to Hershey, I’d pick them vs Gateway in the final, and I anticipate the Middletown/Wyomissing winner will end up playing Central Valley for the state title.

    On a side note there was an article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette this week that indicated Pine Richland will be 5A for the next 2 yr cycle, and with the anticipation of Erie Prep moving up from 4A that will make 5A a much stronger class for the next few years, will also make 6A in the WPIAL a lot weaker.

    @ Kevin X – I’d go with North Penn vs. CB South, I have a hunch that’s going to be a very competitive game, think West is going to handle Ridley by about 3 scores, they haven’t fared so well this year against power running teams.

  183. Chief Red Raider says:

    Question for all: Does anyone know if the C’ville/Souderton game is being streamed or on the radio? They chose to stream the DTW game on the one site that shows Coatesville.

  184. Buddy says:

    Guess yu-all know where I’ll be. If Ridley has the ability to stop the run CB West could be in trouble.

    Haven’t seen Haverford play, but seen SF. They’re big, including their RB.

    Haven’t seen Abington nor PW. Abington is usually famous for their speed.

    PV is small. They’re always small. DTE and PV have already played this year. It wasn’t all that close.

    It’s football weather that’s for damn sure!

  185. New2PA says:

    From the PGH Post-Gazette – Pine-Richland dropping to 5A and South Fayette moving up to 5A.

  186. Kevin X says:

    Ok guys, need a little input, do I hit up Ridley @ CB West or North Penn @ CB South?? Leaning the latter, b/c looking ahead, I already have circled C’Ville @ CB West for next week (hope I just didn’t jinx CB West).

  187. Uncle T says:

    Kevin X- I’m with you on Haverford, in fact I would be surprised if they don’t win that game. I’d make them a 6.5 point favorite. Their QB/athlete, Trey Blair, is as much of a game-breaker as anyone in the district.

    But I’m not seeing Perk Valley over DTE. If it were a regular season game, maybe, with East coming down off the Coatesville emotion, but the PAC has been a paper tiger in the 6A playoffs.

    I think we’re only looking at 2 or 3 competitive games games in the 1st round with CBS/NP, Abington/PW, and possibly Haverford/Spring-Ford. Wouldn’t shock me to see 3-4 score or mercy rule wins in the rest of the games this week.

  188. Jut says:

    Im not upset by byes being in district play, in my eyes there should be, if you don’t have a .500 record or above you shouldn’t be in playoffs, but to have byes in state play is nonsense, instead of having like district 4 champ play district 2 champ have them have the bye and have one of them play district 3 champ? That’s all I’m trying to say here. Just seems like it’s always district 3 getting the byes in state playoffs. Also a few years ago. First round of playoffs whole state was being played except for district 3 it was their last week of the season. That made no sense there either. I know some schools bylaws, they have to be .500 or above or they won’t participate in playoffs.

  189. JC says:

    Some games to watch in D11:

    Northampton vs. Easton (6A): The runaway EPC North champs against a slumping Easton, but the EPC South is much tougher of a division. I’m picking Easton.
    East Stroudsburg South vs. Pocono Mountain East (5A): EPC North rivals played a one-possession game earlier this season, but the game was not as close as the score indicated. ESS to win.
    Central Catholic vs. Saucon Valley (4A): All four higher seeds are favored, but the 4-5 is most likely to be close. Still picking Central Catholic by a couple scores.
    Tamaqua vs. Notre Dame Green Pond (3A): A rematch from last year, probably the best game in D11 this week and one of the best in the state. A true toss-up, I pick Tamaqua to exact revenge.

    Outside of these, the games mostly have clear favorites. It’s the playoffs though, and anything can happen. Next round could have some real barn-burners.

  190. D3 Mike says:

    Should be competitive games in D3-6A but I don’t see any upsets. Plus many of the better teams in the other classes are on byes this week.

    For those interested, Brian Linder at PennLive broke down the teams and key players better than I could. Rather than plagiarize, I’ll just repost the link below. Since he’s summarizing 44 teams it’s just a couple of sentences on each program plus their D1 talent but it’s a good overview along with prediction blurb for each class. He’s actually seen almost all of these teams play.

    I’m on board with all of his district winner predictions with the exception of 4A. He’s a bit higher on Susquehanna Twp than most. Not that it matters at the state level since the D3 champ is going to get wrecked by the TJ-ECP winner this year anyways. And my coin flip came up heads so I’m going to take Middletown.

    Milton Hershey
    Steel High

  191. Jeff H says:

    Kevin X noted a couple of possible upsets in D1, I don’t foresee any in the WPIAL, at least not in 6A or 5A, the one possibility would be #11 Baldwin over #6 McKeesport, I have seen both and that should be a pretty competitive game, but still think McKeesport will win at home. I do think #9 Upper St Clair will beat #8 North Hills, but wouldn’t consider that much of an upset because USC played in a much tougher conference than North Hills, winner will likely get rolled by #1 Penn Trafford the following week.

    I agree with D3 Mike that #1 Wilson is going to have their hands full with #8 Chambersburg, that’s a pretty rough draw in the first round for a #1 seed, if I’m MT I’d much rather play CV than Chambersburg, think the other top seeds in D3 win pretty comfortably.

    Anyone else have any possible upset specials this week?

  192. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Nice D1 6A picks. I will go on the record with one upset special. Believe Haverford will travel up Rte. 422 and knock off Spring-Ford. Second, I would not be as shocked as everyone else would be if Perk goes down to Dowingtown on Saturday and surprises DTE. How’s that for hedging second upset special???

  193. mark d says:

    @Kevin x heck even 8 out of 12 i AAAA make it.Cash cow games those stadiums will be empty.Even Valley View who draws well if their a chill in the air you be lucky to get enough to pay for the lights.You really think people form Pittston will travel up for the game how many people from Abington are going to be at Dallas very few trust me>No i call them a waste of money, time and a chance of getting kids hurt playing competition that we all know is over thier heads

  194. Buddy says:

    I know it’s been said before, but I’ll say it again………… drop down to 5 classes ( does the PIAA ever read these posts?)

    That would solve some of the problems mentioned below. Too many teams make the playoffs in some classes

    and other classes play hell fielding playoff teams. D1, 6A should only have 8 teams in playoffs ( they used to ).

  195. Jeff H says:

    @ Jut – PIAA gives each district a certain amount of weeks for their district playoffs, depending on the number of teams in each classification. For example, D3 has 18 teams in 6A, and PIAA gave them 4 weeks to complete playoffs, they chose to take 8 teams with a 3 week playoff, so that’s why they have a bye the week before they will take on the D1 winner. Other districts could do the same thing, it’s up to them to decide how to structure their playoffs, but most districts decide to take as many teams as possible, that’s why there are some really bad teams across the state that make their district playoffs. I think the PIAA should force district 3 to take their bye this week before the playoffs start, and not after they are completed, but that’s how the system is currently set up.

    In the WPIAL in 6A, there are only 9 teams, and PIAA gives them 3 weeks, so instead of 8 out of 9 teams making the playoffs for a full bracket there are 6 that make it, and top 2 seeds get byes this week, which are Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Pine Richland, so both of them have this week off. Same deal in D3 in 5A, there are 14 teams that make the playoffs, and top 2 seeds get a bye this week.

    As D3 Mike indicated the only way to do a fair seeding and bracket statewide would be to seed teams in each class 1-32 and do away with district playoffs, that is never going to happen because certain districts like the WPIAL will refuse to go along, and their teams would not play in state playoffs if push comes to shove and PIAA tries to eliminate district playoffs, to say nothing of all the travel involved when teams are seeded statewide for the whole tournament.

  196. Buddy says:

    Picks ( D1 6A ):

    DTW ( somewhat embarrassing)
    DTE ( want PV tho)
    CBW ( closer then you think)
    C’ville ( ugly)
    GV ( bit of a blowout)
    Abington ( close)

    Let’s see how badly I blow this one!

  197. D3 Mike says:

    @Jut this has been explained in the forums already but I’ll repeat it here. Districts almost always have byes (and there are many districts with byes) because they choose to have byes, not because they were “given byes by the PIAA”. The PIAA assigns a number of weeks for district playoffs based on the number of teams in each class relative to neighboring districts. District 3 was given 4 weeks for 4A, 5A, and 6A because it has one-quarter of the 4A, 5A, and 6A football teams in the state of PA and there was no more even way to split everything up this cycle (6A is an abomination because D1 and D3 alone have 60% of the 6A programs).

    In turn, District 3 CHOOSES to send roughly half of its teams into the playoffs while many other districts CHOOSE to send more than half of their teams just to fill out complete brackets. The result is byes for some District 3 teams (week 11 for 3A, 4A, and 5A and week 14 for 6A) while other districts are playing games. District 3 simply chooses to extend byes rather than add more mediocre teams to the bottom of its bracket to deliver more mercy rule, round 1 “playoff” games (like many of the other eastern PA districts are doing this weekend).

    If anything, District 3 should be required to hold its 6A bye in Week 11 (also, already stated) instead of Week 14 to make it more even with the D1 winner. But as it stands, again, District 3 has one-quarter of all big-schools (4A-6A) in PA and gets those winners placed in the state semi-finals (1/4 of teams, 1/4 of state spots, seems pretty fair to me) and one-eighth of all 3A programs with its winner placed in the quarterfinals (again, 1/8 of teams, 1/8 of state spots seems fair to me) so these teams certainly don’t get any “byes” into the state playoffs. There are lots of easy paths to the state playoffs in PA and other than 1A (agreed – should have been combined into a super region this cycle), none of them are in District 3.

  198. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    Here is some fun with numbers….there are 20 teams combined in the D2 “A” “2A” “3A” and “6A” classifications. Only 4 did not make the playoffs. In the other words, 80% of those teams will be playing another game this weekend. Simple greed. Call it the cash cow weekend (you can say this for across the state as well).

    @ Buddy

    Actually they would (have avoided), that was my point of being the #11 seed. Facing Abington and Garnet in the first two rounds, and not meeting up with one of the “Big 3” until possibly the district semi’s.

    @ Jut

    Of the six districts in the Eastern coverage area, I think D3 does it the best with their playoffs. Meaning that they actually limit the number of teams in the post season. My two issues are with their “A” (see prior post) and 6A, with having a bye before facing the D1 Champion (we’ve been down that road already). Solutions: either put bye before their (D3) championship game, start the 6A district playoffs a week later (everyone gets a bye this weekend), or, gonna contradict myself here (too many teams in the playoffs), go with a 10 or 12 team playoff like the other D3 classifications to add another week and equal things out.

    @D3 Mike
    You nailed nailed it, scrap the districts as currently set-up, go with an even 32 team/5 week system for each classification. (stop typing guys, Yeah, I know it will never happen).

  199. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – have not seen Central Valley live, only highlights, lot of team speed like Aiiquippa and throw the ball some, QB Ameer Dudley has passed for 1,200 yards and is a dual threat, receiver Juwon Hall has 10 TD receptions, including 2 long ones against the Quips of 49 and 35 yards, offense averages 40 ppg, also a pretty stout defense that totally shut down Aliquippa, I would be very surprised if they are not the Western rep in Hershey.

    Also agree with you about NG, expect their game against the D3 winner to be very competitive.

    Really pleased with the seedings in 5A, I think the WPIAL got it exactly right this time, and they don’t always, Penn Trafford is #1, Gateway #2, even though they finished 2nd in their conference behind Penn Trafford, Penn Hills #3, Moon #4 and Peters Township #5. Very interesting 2nd round games between Peters and Moon, as well as Penn Hills vs. McKeesport, I like Penn Trafford and Peters to meet in one semi-final, they played a classic last year in the quarterfinals won by Peters 38-35 on a last second field goal, with backyard rivals Gateway vs. Penn Hills in the other semi-final. I think this year will be a repeat of 2017 with Gateway beating Penn Trafford in the final, and reversing the result from the regular season, although I wouldn’t be surprised if Peters upsets Penn Trafford in the semi’s.

  200. mark d says:

    something has to change ! thier will be 12 playoff games in D2 this weekend. i will bet that 6 of the 12 will be mercy rule games 3 more will be by at least 3 touchdowns so that leaves 3 competitive game in the first week why ? dose 3-7 abington really need to play 10-0 Dallas ??? game will be over in the first quarter.they need to look at more sub regional games

  201. Buddy says:

    @ Kevin

    Actually, I wanted CB West 1st round, but CB South is a good 2nd choice. No matter where NP wound up, they wouldn’t have avoided

    either D-Towns or C’ville early on. If tradition holds true, NP is another animal at playoff time ( probably shouldn’t have said that…………jinx).

    I think they’ll beat CBS.( also think they would have beat CBW)…………….. DTW is another story.

  202. Jut says:

    These brackets every year make me laugh. With all these byes for district 3, like why is there no byes for others districts? Can some please explain? Next year when there is a new cycle, will other districts get the byes in states or will it be D3 again? I know PIAA headquarters are there so they might be bias for giving their schools some rest in the state playoffs which help a lot. Can’t be knocked out if you are playing while others play to get that far. How is that fair?

  203. New2PA says:

    Jeff H: I was at game. Number 5 (DE for NA) had to leave the game with what looked like back or leg issues had to be helped from training table after the game. #3 (Colon) also had to leave game with what looked like cramps, but did not return on defense. Not sure about O. #76 was ejected for taking a swing at the ref after a personal foul call. He’s definitely out for a week. #8 (Dinkins) dressed but did not play a snap. That was interesting. He could help them. Maybe just for appearances sake. Not sure. That’s all I saw. Maybe more. Trent Miller for P-R played entire game on defense – good to see since he was in major pain at the SV game with a shoulder.

    Will be interesting. P-R will have to continue to throw the ball like they did (Spencer for 400 and 5 TDs, Jochem for 11/221 with 3 TDs, Johnson 8/169, 1 TD) both deep and short passes to the sideline. Looked to me like P-R handled NA’s LB’s and DB’s well. Had some issues with the DL and couldn’t run the ball at all. Have to get Meckler going to keep winning IMO. But, defense played lights out. NA had 2 big plays for TD’s and that was about it. No consistent passing game to speak of really hurt them.

  204. Kevin X says:

    D1, D2, D3 and D11 should be an eight team regional (maybe call it a super regional, or not so super regional??) bracket as well. If I was associated with D3, I’d be embarrass staging that so-called “A” “championship” game.

  205. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Jeff H. You are right 2 years ago. I’am bad. How time flies by. But. I can remember reading on this forum alot of doubt from Philly fans saying Southern had no chance of winning that game.

  206. Santa says:

    To everyone from santa,

    I am not coming on here as different names let’s get that clear right now. Secondly whoever made the comment about southern not competing at 7 on 7 is absolutely ludicrous. You idiots want to play basketball on grass and that’s fine but again the game up north where we live is won on the line of scrimmage. How about come to the North Pole for our playoff games and all the chuck and duck offenses would be standing over by the salamander heaters on there sidelines getting there hands warm while southern would be driving it down the field running the football. My point is the culture the toughness the mental toughness would overwhelm all teams. The real game has been lost and santa wants it brought back. Great pumkin have a great Halloween

    Sincerely mr. Clause

  207. Mike A says:

    Panel to rule on Pennsylvania high school’s ‘Redskins’ nickname

  208. Matt says:

    @JC….I agree ……makes no sense. D11 AAA could be in a sub region with 2 in that class and take top 8 out of 15 total AAA teams in d11 and d2. Like AA and AAAAA in those districts. There are 3 teams above 500 in AAA d11(Jim Thorpe, Salisbury and Northern Lehigh). But all three won’t make it. And in A d11 you have an 0-10 (shenendoah valley) team playing in the district tournament…..this needs to get looked at….make more sub regions in the smaller classes ….better playoffs matches than a 0-10 or 2-8 team playing a 9-1 or 10-0 team…..

  209. Jeff H says:

    Brackets and pairings for WPIAL will be announced tonight at 7pm, we already know 6A, as I previously posted Central Catholic and PR are #1 and #2 and have first round byes, in the semi-finals PCC will host winner of Seneca Valley-Mt Lebo, and PR will again host NA, assuming they beat Canon Mac next week at home. I heard from a buddy of mine NA came out of the PR game really banged up, and expect them to perhaps rest some guys next week, I don’t see how they flip the script against PR in 2 weeks and looks like it will be another PR vs. PCC final at Heinz.

    Will be very interesting to see how they seed 5A, Penn Trafford is the no brainer number 1, but after that it gets a little hazy, I suspect they will have 9-1 Penn Hills at #2, and should have Gateway #3 ahead of Moon, the other section winner. If they seed Moon ahead of Gateway that would have Gateway playing Peters Township in 2nd round, and I still think those 2 are the biggest threats to Penn Trafford, I actually like Gateway’s chances and pick them to win, still not sold on Penn Hills, they played a very weak schedule outside of Pine Richland in week 0.

    4A is a formality because TJ is so much better than everyone else, expect South Fayette to be #2, but think they will lose to TJ by at least a couple of scores if they meet.

    3A is all Central Valley, and Aliquippa still likely #2 after getting blown out on Friday, both appear head and shoulders above everyone else in the WPIAL 3A.

    2A – Washington should be #1, a lot of good teams and balance in this class, don’t think the WPIAL winner will beat Wilmington and expect them to face SCA for the third year in a row in Hershey

    1A – Clairton had an impressive win on Friday against Jeanette, think those 2 will likely meet again in the final.

  210. The Joneses says:

    Asking for a friend….. Do those of you who are fans of a specific team (Ex Southern) get any satisfaction of debating why your team would beat another team knowing they are never going to play each other? Again. just asking for a friend.

  211. D3 Mike says:

    @JC I think it gets re-aligned after this cycle (so we should have new brackets in 2020). I agree, though – not only the difference in the number of schools but it’s also odd that D2 was given 3 weeks for only 7 schools to play through? The match-ups should be flipped based purely on the numbers. It’s probably a geographic thing where D11/D12 and D2/D4 are closer geographically so they got matched up. IDK. That’s sort of how they do the brackets for 6A, too… but then it’s flipped again for 4A so who the heck knows.

    That said, Neumann-Goretti has a strong team and all, but to reach the quarterfinals Lancaster Catholic, Wyomissing, and Middletown have to play each other and they have 6 trips to Hershey and 3 titles between them in the last decade. The second-best team in the state in 5A hasn’t been making it out of Heinz Field, either, and it will probably be the same story this year. It’s impossible to keep brackets balanced unless you’re willing to do away with districts and just seed teams in each class #1-#32 or something, with all the travel that would entail.

    @Jeff, have you seen Central Valley live or on TV? What does their team look like? Both Middletown and Wyomissing run the Wing-t. Middletown is a bit more modern and plays more on the edges and Wyomissing runs the classic version – big line, big fullback, two fast halfbacks. Neither throws it – at all. Curious what that final might look like if one of them gets thru the East (although NG might be the favorite at this point, and I had thought NG vs. Aliquippa would have been a fun shootout).

  212. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    I think what looks out of skew is that D2 lost 2 3A teams this year with the consolidation of the W-B schools. So kind of had to impervise on the fly. With that said, think it was actually worse last year, with 8 of the 9 schools making the 3A D2 playoffs.

    Things should be rearranged next year when the new 2 year enrollment and classifications/re-classifications are announced.

    Don’t get too ahead of yourself, N-G will still have to get past PJPII first.

  213. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Yes, you did indeed get your wish. But as the saying goes, be careful for what you wish for. If I was rooting for North Penn, I’d rather take my chances as the #11 seed and go thru Abington and Garnet versus as being the current #9 seed and facing CB South and DTW.

    You probably already saw this by now, but the DTE game is Saturday night at Kottmeyer Stadium in Downingtown. DTW hosts there Friday night. The two Downingtown’s share Kottmeyer. Good chance we’ll see that scenario play out next weekend as well with back to back Friday and Saturday night games. You lucky ChesMont peeps!!!!

  214. Jeff H. says:

    @ Dennis Pascoe – that was 2 yrs ago that SCA played NG, and those of us that follow football statewide predicted SCA would win that game, including some of the Philly guys, if you read some of the other boards.

  215. JC says:

    When do the playoff brackets get re-aligned? I noticed that 6 out of 7 AAA schools in D2 make the playoffs, but only 4 of 9 AAA schools in D11 qualify. Those D11 teams really get hard-done by having to get through Neumann-Goretti just to reach the quarterfinals.

  216. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Jiminy Cricket In my book team camps, speed camps 7 on 7 is just what it says. It is a indication of what you need and improve upon. It is not a game! You are right in saying Southern would be hard pressed to play 5 A 6A. Example I would say SJP would easily defeat them by 3 or 4 scores maybe even mercy rule (sorry Southern guys). But I would never bet against them either. Now thinking back to last year when they played that super team from Philly NG.. nobody gave Southern a chance in heck to win that game. all the Philly guys laughed at the thought. Southern easily won because they play SOLID discipline fundamental football. Southern is good at frustrating you into mistakes just like they did to NG and sent them packing. Before you say you are just a fan of Southern yes I follow them. But at heart a Dunmore bucks fan!

  217. Uncle T says:

    As for D1 5A, there should be some great 2nd round matchups.

    Unionville would give Cheltenham a stern test, enough to see just how good the 1 seed is this year.
    Kennett against a bulldozing Strath Haven team that has been solid this year outside of a mismatch with 6A Garnet Valley and getting bit by the division 1 recruits from 6A Haverford.
    WC East/Rustin will be a neighborhood slugfest in what should be a great high school football atmosphere.

    I think WC East is the favorite in the bracket, and could be a state final team if they stay healthy.

  218. Uncle T says:

    Looking at the D1 6A bracket, that Coatesville/CB West game in the 2nd round will be very interesting. It has seemed the last 3 years that the only way to neutralize the ‘Ville’s offense (other than turnovers like vs. Harrisburg last year) has been to keep them off the field by a consistent running attack by the opposing offense. It almost goes without saying that Matt Ortega and crew haven’t seen anything like the CB West nouveau wing-T recently, and they had their problems facing Garnet Valley’s triple option for the first time in the 2017 final.

    Either way, the semifinal on that side of the bracket will be fun. Coatesville has earned the right to be the favorite to get back to the final, but they’re going to have to go through a couple sketchy games to get there. I doubt Garnet Valley will have any real trouble with OJR or Abington/PW, so we’ll either get the Wing-T vs. Triple Option, or Coatesville/GV part 3 without one of the Young brothers to decimate GV again.

  219. Jiminey Cricket says:

    WADR to Southern Columbia as they are a very good team, Santa and The Bloody Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown are outta their mind. I watched this Southern Columbia team at the LVC team camp this summer with great interest in their approach, their star players, and their potential. During the 7v7 they were pedestrian at best. During their 11 man team scrimmage they got run by a middling 6A Wilson. Their Stud RB heading to Michigan gaining negative yards and their stud WR being frustrated by decent DBs destined for D1 baseball careers. To ascert that Southern Columbia would be competitive against the states best is laughable.

  220. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, Wyomissing is very 1 dimensional, we both saw that, Wolfrum does have some passing plays he runs when the opponent stacks the box against them. That throwback screen they used against BC was a touchdown if the QB didn’t over throw it, I have seen Wyo throw it downfield on occasion this year and hit some big plays, their starting QB was lost the 1st game of the season. I think Wyo handles Middletown this year, this is Wyo’s best teams since their State Championship team and Middletown, while still good, looks to be a couple of notches down from the last few years. Wolfrum in my opinion is one of the top 5 coaches in PA football. BC had several VG football players transfer out the last few years, plus losing 29 Seniors from last year and the PIAA turning down 2 big time transfers this year really hurt them. What’s scary is Wyo is starting mostly Jr’s and Soph’s, BC does have some young talent that needs to develop but your right, football starts upfront and Wyo just dominated the line of scrimmage.

  221. Buddy says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, DTE doesn’t have a field?

    DTE & DTW both have home games Fri. nite.

    Who plays where? Will one game be Sat.?

  222. Dennis Pascoe says:

    I was sadden to hear about North Schuylkill QB Jaden Leiby. All of us who love high school football please pray for him and his family. Football is only a game. Life is real. With today’s doctors and the technology I pray they can help this young man on his road to recovery. Thankyou

  223. D3 Mike says:

    Of note re: the D3 brackets:

    6A: Wilson did finish ahead of Manheim Township in the PR so they would get the final at home. They draw Chambersburg next Friday which is a brutal 1st rd game for a #1 seed. Chambersburg played some quality opponents tight in October. MT draws Cumberland Valley and then the district dark horse, Central Dauphin, in the semifinals.

    5A: D3 furthers my interest in a WPIAL-style selection committee as its PR system matches Warwick and Manheim Central in the district quarterfinals. Well done, power rankings!

    4A: This bracket actually makes sense. The two best teams IMO (Milton Hershey (2) and Bishop McDevitt (4)) drew pretty good match-ups. Top 6 seeds in D3-4A get a bye so we won’t know more about this class for a couple of weeks.

    3A: The main thing of note here is that Wyomissing has the #1 seed. Since they don’t have lights they play all of their games Sat at 1, meaning there probably won’t be much competition for attention on Nov 16 when they square up with Middletown.

    2A: A good bracket that flies under the radar because of SCA. Steel-High is probably the best team but they have the tougher semi and would also have to go on the road to Upper Dauphin. UD scoring almost 55 PPG.

  224. Buddy says:

    I’m assuming something happens with the 4, 5 & 6 seed. Almost has to.

    DTE should, and I assume will, be 4th seed. Toss up between SF and Abington for 5 & 6.

    PIAA power points has them all tied. But for no other reason DTE has 1 loss, other two has 2 losses.

    Got my wish. NP goes to CBS. Any changes on the above shouldn’t change that.

  225. Kmac says:


    The team seeding meeting for District One playoffs is 10AM today (Sunday) at North Penn High School. Results are considered unofficial until noon on Monday to allow any disputes to be settled that may arise unexpectedly; which of course, should not occur. Possibly sometime today we may know the results.

  226. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How many D1 players did Neumann Goretti have when Southern played them and what kind of numbers 1 way vs 2 way players did they have, etc.

    And I’m honestly asking because I don’t know.

    I am not a Southern fan by any means. And my opinion is based solely on this year’s team and what they’d be capable of.

    I just think all you large school people even though you’re giving them respect, don’t truly understand what that defense can do and what their discipline and their staff can do, game planning and then getting the kids to execute. It’s not totally about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s. It’s more than that.

  227. Tornado Fan says:

    @Foleman SCA does not have many players go both ways. That is one of the main reasons MCA has not been able to beat them the past few years. It is usually a close game at half time but SCA always pulls away in the 2nd half after MCA’s mostly 2 way players get worn down. The past 10 years, MCA has had avg. ~35 players on the roster compared to SCA with avg ~55 players.

    I think that certain years, small schools have fielded quality teams capable of competing with anyone in the state. I always thought some of MCA’s best teams in the 90’s could have competed with anyone except maybe CB West. This year’s SCA team would compete with anyone except the elite big school teams like St. Joe’s Prep and its not going out on a limb to say they are probably going to go down as the best AA team of all time.

    Also, prayers for the North Schuylkill QB Jaden Leiby who was life flighted after going down with a serious neck injury Friday night against Pottsville.

  228. Kevin X says:

    ……and before I forget……

    @ FrankG

    THANK YOU!!! FINALLY!!!! Someone gets it!!! Your post needs re-posting……. (hope you don’t mind)

    “@JC The larger problem is that there are more and more completely non-competitive games–or so my scanning of the state-wide results each week suggests. The fact that two schools are pretty much the same size means a whole lot less than it used to, not just in cases where one school has boundaries and the other doesn’t but also in the more numerous cases where one school has a solid program and the other doesn’t. To some degree the problem will be resolved by some schools dropping football–I predict a steady stream of them beginning in the next few years–but the main problem will remain unless there’s a different approach to scheduling and classification.”

  229. Kevin X says:

    @ Jay

    With now La Salle beating RC, and H-Burg laying the wood on Altoona, granted not official until tomorrow, but appears D1 6A looking like #6 Abington, #7 Coatesville, #8 CB South, #9 North Penn, #10 Souderton, #11 P-W. Top and bottom rankings looking to be unchanged. Not getting #4 S-F over #5 DTE, but maybe that will change.

    Wouldn’t get overly concerned about a C’Ville/CB West match-up. If anything, Doylestown is a nice place to hang out before and/or after a game. BTW…..did you make it up here the other week?? Think I recall you were looking for some games to attend a few weeks ago…..the North Penn/CB West tilt was quite the contest if you missed it!!!

  230. Jay says:

    Are the seeds final yet? In my last comment I made a lot of assumptions and now I’m wondering if my scenario for Coatesville is way different than what’s actually going to happen. But either way I feel like they have an incredibly tough road through the D1 playoffs.

  231. Jay says:

    @Kevin X

    I’m also liking that scenario four Fridays from now at Kottmeyer Stadium, and I couldn’t be more excited about it. I like Downingtown West’s route more than Coatesvilles though.

    If Coatesville gets through their home game next week, which I think they should, they have a tough road starting at CB West (which excites me because I’ve never seen CB West play before), and at Garnet Valley in a matchup where the Jaguars will want to deliver some payback for the past two seasons and also to avenge their only loss of the season the following week in Downingtown (all assuming higher seeds win of course).

    The D1 playoffs are going to be incredibly exciting this year. Not only in 6A but also in 5A – I’m really pulling for a Kennett vs WC East rematch and would be happy to see either one win their tournament. What a year for both teams.

  232. Brian says:

    Uncle T. You may want to look at southerns schedule a little closer or scroll down to the post I submitted earlier. They have 1AA school on their schedule. They have 1 A school on their schedule. All the rest are AAA or AAAA. I’m not going to get into the southern could or couldn’t beat so and so from 6A and 5A. These are opinions of people and that’s it’s. Southern haters will say they can’t, southern fans will say they can. All I know is this is a once in a lifetime team and that they could compete with anyone. I didn’t say win I said compete but it wouldn’t shock me if they would win.

  233. Kevin X says:

    Sorry guys, a little late with this. Anybody interested in catching the stream of the LaSalle/Roman Catholic game from the historic, yet quirky Conshy “A” Field, here you go. 6p kickoff……

  234. Kevin X says:

    @ Marcm

    NP would only be getting an additional 10 LaSalle “win bonus points”if LaSalle does beat RC this evening. LaSalle’s other wins have already been factored into NP’s rating points. So looking more like a #9 seed.

  235. Buddy says:


    Nah, rooting for a LaSalle win. Wanna see NP at CBS ( rather then Abington).

    Revenge factor maybe plus CBS is lot closer for me than Abington ( getting lazy, i.e. old. )

    If C’ville and both D-towns are in upper bracket, how can they meet in the final? I must be missing something.

    @ Marcm:

    I think the best NP can do is 9th. Am I missing something?

  236. Mike A says:

    State College defeats Cumberland Valley 33-21 at Beaver Stadium.

  237. Marcm says:

    I think NP will jump to 7th place with the 80pts they’ll get with a LaSalle win

  238. ColonilaFan says:

    @Kevin X

    Thanks for the well wishes!
    D11 5A title is definitely there for the taking. Will be our best shot as any with a matchup against East Stroudsburg South most likely. We’ve handed them in past district matchups, but that was then. One week at a time and hopefully we do get that chance to play with house money!
    Don’t get me started on the field…I actually work in the grounds department for the district, shhhh. It’s good now, fortunately we only missed the first two home games of the season, but it was basically a five week toad trip to start the season! Looks like we’ll be getting a visit from Wyoming Valley West next week!

  239. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    That is the way I see and read things. H-Burg should walk over Altoona today so that would trigger C’Ville moving up to #7 and CBS dropping down to #8. If I was North Penn, I’d be rooting for RC tonight. I’d rather stay at #11 and travel down to Abington next week vs having a rematch at CBS. Also, if you beat Abington, I’d rather take my chances the following week at Garnet versus DTW (assuming chalk holds).

    Hoping (and they should) C’Ville moves up to #7 so to be on the other side of the bracket from the Downingtowns. Sets a up potential C’Ville vs a Downingtown final at Kottmeyer. The best game with the best teams at the best D1 stadium. Of course, I am getting waaaaay ahead of myself…..

  240. NW PA says:

    I’ve been saying it on this forum all year but TJ is the real deal. After what Central Valley did to Alaquippa last night it makes their convincing win a few weeks back look even better. The game against Erie Cathedral will be somewhere in Pittsburgh, probably Baldwin again, mark your calendars.

  241. Joey Football says:

    Dennis Pascoe, I think that Southern Columbia would prob win the 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A with no argument. They would beat 90% of 6A this year most likely. But they cannot play at elite level of big school football. For no other reason than for numbers. The coaching is outstanding and they outstanding players. But elite big school teams have enough top end talent to match the SoCo top end talent, where they lose is how much better the talent is after the top end talent.

  242. Jeff H says:

    @D3Mike – total dominance by Central Valley, not surprised they won because I thought that game could go either way, based on how 3A has played out the last 3 yrs I think CV has to be considered the favorite to win 3A, and at this point I would pick Central Valley vs. the Middletown-Wyomissing winner to meet in Hershey, sounds like that should be a tremendous game. In answer to your other question, yes, 4A is 3-4 TD’s better than 3A this year, as it has been for the last few years, and it also leads me to think TJ-ECP is going to be a real battle in 4 weeks.

    @Dennis Pascoe – thank you for bringing a little sanity to the discussion from a SC fan, I have all the respect in the world for Roth and the program but to say they would beat SJP is just silly, I do think they would compete with them for awhile, but as others have pointed out they would get worn down in 2nd have and lose by 3-4 scores, something like 49-21.

  243. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @Foreman You are correct on the old WING – T But that old wing -t that Southern runs if you remember has put that all-star team NG last year running back to Philly. And remember how it crushed a good Aliquippa team to the point where the coach would not give a interview at end of game. It does work at the small school level. @ Kevin 2nd and 3rd team members get to play alot after half time to see what the future holds is also good to watch. I must agree I would love to see a Southern vs SJP . But I think without a doubt SJP would win by 3 or 4 scores.

  244. Buddy says:

    OK, let me get this straight. I think C. Valley will lose and H-burg will win.

    That being the case, C’ville and CBS switch places, correct?

    If LaSalle wins, NP jumps all the way to #9, correct? ( I’m assuming Souderton would be #10 and PW #11.)

    Big question: who will win the LS vs RC tilt ( opinion obviously) ?

    As a NP fan, I sure as hell don’t wanna travel C’ville!

  245. D3 Mike says:


    As an HNHS alum, I attended the BC vs Wyo game last night, as always, despite knowing the result in advance. Wow. After all the crying about transfers and recruiting the past few years what I watched was a huge, talented Wyomissing team absolutely dominate a BC squad with 1 or 2 legitimate big-school lineman on it. If you’d seen the two teams line-up, you’d know that Berks was lucky to keep it 23-0.

    That said, you’re picking Wyo to win the state (and they will probably be #1 in a lot of places after the Aliquippa loss) but I still don’t see it. I thought last night was as much a function of BC being anemic on offense as anything. They haven’t moved the ball on anyone all season. 4 losses, Exeter should have been a loss, and they scored 14 or under in 6 games of their 10 games.

    More importantly, Wyo completed just 1 pass for 17 yards last night. I get that they didn’t have to throw much but aren’t you afraid that they are too 1-dimensional? How will they play from behind? I will definitely be at the Wyomissing vs Middletown district 3 final. Might be #1 vs #2 in the state.


    re: Aliquippa, seriously, what the heck man? Was really counting on them lol. Now I guess the question is where does this put Central Valley? And of equal importance, what does it say about TJ beating CV 28-3? If CV really is the favorite in 3A, is the difference between 3A and 4A really 4 touchdowns this year?

  246. Kevin X says:

    Creds to Kyle Berger!!!!

    Prelim final D1 6A seedings……

    1. Downingtown West 180
    2. CB West 173
    3. Garnet Valley 167
    4. Downingtown East 162
    ⬆️ (Wins tiebreaker on reg season record)
    5. Spring-Ford 162
    6. Abington 161
    7. CB South 155
    8. Coatesville 154.4
    ⬆️ could pass CB South if either Cumberland Valley or Harrisburg win tomorrow
    9. Souderton 153
    10. Plymouth Whitemarsh 152.2
    11. North Penn 152
    ⬆️ will move to #9 if LaSalle wins tomorrow (win head-to-head tiebreak with Souderton)
    12. Haverford 145
    13. Perk Valley 144
    14. Owen J Roberts 143
    15. Ridley 141
    16. Pennsbury 135

  247. Kevin X says:

    @ Dennis


    Been to a game for the 5th Friday night in a row tonight where the game was still a one score game in the 4th quarter. Third week in a row where the game was still in doubt with less than 2 minutes to go. Really don’t care to spend my Friday nights sitting at a game for 75 minutes with the mercy rule in effect starting the second half. Maybe that’s just me.

    BTW, it is now time for EA to join the top eastern 5 in 3A, if not the top 3.

  248. Kevin X says:

    @ Black and white

    Have you been thru concussion protocol recently???

  249. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Southern gave up 6 points to Danville coaches not happy. Southern is such a fun team to watch. Their defense will rock you while the offence keeps rolling . Worth the trip to see them play.. Go early it gets packed.

  250. Jeff H. says:

    Couple of surprising blowouts in 2 really big games in WPIAL tonight, PR pulled away from NA and won going away 42-14, and with PCC crushing Mt Lebo all three tied for the conference at 7-1 and with tiebreakers order of finish and seed in playoffs will be PCC, PR and NA. So, PCC will demolish the winner of SV and Lebo in 2 weeks and be at Heinz to play winner of rematch in 2 weeks between PR and NA after NA blows out Canon Mac next week in first round. IMO PCC is clear favorite and will win, then take on winner of McDowell vs. State College in quarterfinals, with winner getting SJP following week in semi-finals.

    And, in a total stunner, Central Valley mercy ruled Aliquippa at the PIT 45-6, after sprinting to a 38-0 halftime lead. Aliquippa fumbled first play from scrimmage and 2 plays later and a minute into the game it was 7-0 and all downhill from there. Aliquippa scored late in 4th quarter to avoid shutout, everyone is searching the record books but it’s believed to be the first time ever Aliquippa was mercy ruled at home. What this means is that Central Valley is now the favorite not just in WPIAL but also for state title and could become 4th different team in last 4 yrs from Beaver County to win 3A title.

  251. Foleman says:

    Black and White, it’s time for you to hang it up. Only 1 6A school in the History of the PIAA Football playoffs has won a Big School Championship running the Wing T and that was Cumberland Valley 27 years ago, and guess what, you will never see another Wing T school win another title at 6A. Southern Columbia runs the Wing T to perfection, I watched another small school State Championship caliber team-Wyomissing run it to perfection tonight against Berks Catholic, the Wing T works in the small school realm, not against the Big Boys, Central Dauphin-6A shut down Berks Catholic’s Wing T last year and so did Erie Cathedral Prep……..which talent wise is a 5A or 6A team, the previous 2 years. If Wyomissing, ranked 2nd in AAA, and my pick to win it this year, played 6A Manheim Township or Wilson from District 3, they would lose by at least 3-4 scores. Prep would shut down SC’S running game and double Fleming when needed, it would not be a close game. Remember, those kids from SC go both ways, they would get worn down by Prep’s size and athleticism.

  252. Jay says:

    Ricky Ortega and Dapree Bryant lose in a Ches-Mont matchup for the first time. I think they’ll have one more in a couple weeks at Downingtown West, assuming they’re the #8 seed next week.

    East played a good game tonight but they received a lot of help from the refs on their go-ahead drive in the fourth. First a questionable pass interference call around midfield, and then quite possibly the most ridiculous personal foul call to ever be called, when Dapree Bryant pushed the ball carrier out of bounds causing him to land really hard. They penalized the result, not the action, and it continued the game-winning drive. Where I was standing at the end zone fence, I had a front row seat for it… Dapree pushed him out well before he was out of bounds. Not even close. Way to go refs.

    But yeah, good job East.

  253. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville got outplayed by DTE tonight — couldn’t really stop the run — which was surprising. Gives them a much more difficult path in the playoffs. Ortega still doesn’t seem like he is moving well. Bring on the playoffs — they should be exciting.

  254. Uncle T says:

    Black and white- you are used to seeing Southern Columbia face 2A schools every week, and 1 decent 3A team. I don’t think you know what you are talking about when it comes to elite 6A competition. To say they would blow SJP off the field is absurd.

  255. Chief Red Raider says:

    Are we all being punked with this SC stuff? Seriously? As the “kill the guy who gets it” champ of my neighborhood when I was 10, I’m not seeing them the “best in every classification in the state — not even close”

  256. D1 Miguel says:

    Santa, if you’re going to agree with yourself from multiple handles at least scrub your posts for forensic signatures so we can be left guessing if multiple people really are this nuts! You and “Black and White” are the only ones who refer to Southern Columbia as “southern”, repeatedly, all in lowercase.

    P.S. I’m amused that comments are delayed due to an “approval” process and obvious troll posts still get through. What’s the point of this set-up, exactly. To prevent profanity?

  257. Black and white says:

    I would like to jump in on the southern Columbia discussion. I’ve coached high school football for 20 plus years and coached at the division 2 collegiate level for 11 years. Currently I am a official for high school and the college levels and have been doing that for the past 15 years. I’ve always followed the eastern pa site for years and enjoyed some of the discussions. It seems that a few years ago there was a Santa that would bring up some great topics and make some very valid points. I remember a public and private school discussion that was brought up several years ago and went on for months and just as the dust settled the great chosen one from the North Pole would say his words of wisdom and the discussion would fire up again. After being around the game for 40 plus years I will side with santa and the great pumkin on the southern topic. Southern undoubtedly isn’t one of the best teams in the state, they are in fact the best in every classification and it isn’t even close. They are one of the best in the country no doubt. The facts are this they have 5 division 1 big ten kids with the best coaching staff in the state with the greatest tradition in the state. Would SJP have some plays against southern yes they absolutely would. Would the game be close no it absolutely wouldn’t be. It might be close for a half and that’s it. The style that southern plays is style in today’s times and today’s mindset that can’t be stopped. They would only have to throw to Fleming 6-8 times during the game. Sure they would be crucial times and downs but the game would still be controlled by down blocks drive blocks pulling guards and old fashioned football that in today’s schemes can’t be stopped. Kudos to the southern staff for keeping the game simple and playing it the way it’s supposed to be played with blocking tackling and most of all discipline.

  258. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley ready for ‘once-in-a-lifetime’ game at Beaver Stadium against State College

  259. FrankG says:

    @JC The larger problem is that there are more and more completely non-competitive games–or so my scanning of the state-wide results each week suggests. The fact that two schools are pretty much the same size means a whole lot less than it used to, not just in cases where one school has boundaries and the other doesn’t but also in the more numerous cases where one school has a solid program and the other doesn’t. To some degree the problem will be resolved by some schools dropping football–I predict a steady stream of them beginning in the next few years–but the main problem will remain unless there’s a different approach to scheduling and classification.

  260. Jeff H says:

    @ Kevin X – good analogy to golf, tonight is also moving night in the WPIAL with several big games on tap that will affect seeding and home field advantage. In 6A Pine Richland hosts NA, if NA wins they are #1, PCC #2, PR #3 and Mt. Lebo #4. if PR wins, which I think they will, then there is a 3 way tie for first, assuming PCC beats Mt Lebo, and order of finish determined by Gardner Points, which at this point would favor PR and NA. Top 2 seeds have a bye next week, then host semi-final games in 2 weeks, so pretty important to finish in top 2.

    5A also has a lot of games that will impact seeding and home field advantage for first round, biggest is probably Gateway at McKeesport, both will have home playoff games next week, but ironically the loser might end up on the easier side of the bracket depending on how things shake out tonight, Penn Hills hosts North Hills for conference title, but I expect Penn Hills to win by at least a couple of scores.

    3A Aliquippa hosts Central Valley, winner wins the conference, both will probably be top 2 seeds and will likely meet again in 3 weeks at Heinz for WPIAL title

    1A – Jeannette at Clairton, winner wins the conference, loser might not get a home playoff game, same as above, good chance these 2 see each other at Heinz again in 3 weeks

    @ Philly Boy – agree with you on SC vs. SJP, I would travel from Pittsburgh to wherever in the state that game is played and gladly pay $50 for a ticket if it went to charity, could sell a ton of tickets a week after the state championships, unfortunately we’ll just have to dream about it.

  261. Kevin X says:

    Week 17, December 14th, Hershey Park Stadium doubleheader…….ECP vs. 5A PIAA State Champ (early game), nightcap, final game of the year…….SCA vs SJP. Let’s do it for a TBD Christmas time charity(s)……..

  262. JC says:

    @The Great Pumpkin: It really just sounds like you have a dog in the fight. Not knocking SC but there’s a world of difference between what they’ve scheduled and what SJP has. SC has beat up on 4A and lower schools, plus a South Carolina school that competes in a private division of 15 teams that people overrate because of their “state titles”. The majority of SJP’s schedule would wipe the floor with any school SC has played this year.

    I don’t mean to suggest that SC is at fault for their schedule, because they have done a good job finding tougher games where they can. But the narrative that they might be favored against SJP, or that you can count on one hand the PA teams that could even COMPETE with SC, has got to stop. Shame we’ll never really find out, because neither side will be proven right or wrong.

  263. Kevin X says:

    Golf has their “moving day” on Saturdays of their tournaments, so I’ll deem tonight “moving night” for the D1 5A and 6A playoff seedings. Most teams have secured their ticket for the start of next weeks district playoffs, just going to be a lot of jockeying for playoff positions and home fields at stake in games tonight. Should be fun!!!

  264. Kevin X says:

    @ ColonialFan

    That’s cool. Good luck to your son and the SoLeHi team and community going forward. Think the D11 5A championship is yours for the taking. After that, maybe it’s like playing with the houses money and just enjoy the ride. Is your field back in shape?? Thought you guys were road warrior to start the season.

  265. phillyboy says:

    Would love to see a SJP – Southern Columbia game at very end of season. Can they make it happen? Are you kidding me, I’d call out sick for that one.

  266. Jeff H. says:

    @The Great Pumpkin – Everyone agrees SC has a fantastic team this year and wonderful program, but they have not played any team in the last several years, maybe ever, that is remotely close in talent to SJP…who have they played that was “loaded” with D1 talent? It’s fun to speculate how they would do against the top teams in the state, but have they played any teams in recent years that have D1 lineman and average 280+ along the offensive/defensive lines, or any team that has the team speed of say Coatesville? I agree with JC, they would lose to SJP by at least a couple of scores, and as I previously stated I think they would likely lose to some other top 6A teams as well. It’s a shame they didn’t follow the lead of Kennedy Catholic in basketball, who won the 1A state title 2 years ago, but played up in 6A and won 6A last year, this was the 2yr cycle for SC to play up and see how they would fare against the big boys.

  267. phillyboy says:

    Yes Virginia, there is a Southern Columbia Santa

  268. Jeff H. says:

    @D3Mike – I had a hunch the reason Wilson is #1 had to do with their opponents records, but how can head to head not be a bigger factor, especially when you beat that team on their home field by 2 scores, seems pretty obvious head to head should count for more. That’s a pretty tough break for MT if they end up with the #2 seed, but if I’m the coach I’m using that as motivation that the system is rigged against us.

    @NWPA/JC – agree with you about Oil City, decent team, but as you said 4A playing up to avoid ECP, they are not a top 10 team in the state, there are probably at least 8 teams, if not more, in the WPIAL in 5A that are better than they are, and I suspect they’ll get bounced from the state playoffs very early if they get past Meadville this week, that should be a very close game, they beat them by 1 point in the regular season.

    @Kevin X/PhillBoy – I realize Wood is way down by their standards and think have only 9-10 seniors, but as you said no one in D12 will beat them, so that puts them in the state quarterfinals, needing only to win 1 game to get the WPIAL champ in the semi’s, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they get that far.

  269. D3 Mike says:

    I played A-football and remember suiting up 19 players for districts, including 8 two-way starters (and this was back when only good teams made districts 🙂 ). I love small-school football. And I wouldn’t even consider SCA all that small considering that they are probably moving up to 3A next cycle and because of their tradition attract, what, 50+ to the roster each year? But now I’ve got kids in a 6A school and it’s simply night and day comparing anything to the elite 6A programs.

    Smaller schools get ground down in the second half against teams with 20-22 different starters, 20-22 assigned back-ups who are just a little behind the starters in skill level, plus another 10+ different kids who play special teams. And 80% of the above are juniors and seniors with all of the extra physical development that entails. That’s 6A football.

    I honestly think Southern Columbia might have the best high-end talent (top 5 players) in the state and could play with ANYONE. I just think if you’re talking wins and losses, it comes down to a numbers game over the course of 48 minutes. It’s exploiting team weaknesses, back-up quality, and the fatigue factor. A 2A public is not going to have the 5 cornerbacks needed to run with a greater Philadelphia all-star team for an entire game. That’s just now how demographics work. When Julian Fleming tweaks an ankle, what do you think that drop-off looks like compared to the #2 WR option at a St. Joe’s Prep when Harrison tweaks his? Finally, how many plays do SCAs top 5 have to play in the first half compared to the top 5 on an elite 6A team? 50% more plays? Twice as many? How does that play out in the 4th quarter? As I said, the talent is certainly there but at a certain point it becomes a numbers game.

  270. Santa says:

    Great pumkin,

    I’m glad that you’re smelling what I’m stepping in when it comes to the topic of southern. There is a lot of undereducated people out there that just doesn’t understand the game like the great pumkin and Santa. I’m sure the these same people that think these bigger schools would beat southern are huge supporters of the all or nothing offenses. The chuck and duck. These teams would get stopped one possession and then look up at the clock and realize that halftime is almost upon them and they haven’t even had the ball. Southern consistently still wins because the most important people on the field are the people winning the battle on the line of scrimmage. The game has been destroyed by the beliefs of spread offenses and people still forget that the teams that control the clock, the line of scrimmage and can run the ball in November and December win the district and state titles. Thanks for believing in Santa great pumkin. You have a great Halloween

  271. JC says:

    @NWPA: Winner of D10 plays the D6/8 champ, likely Hollidaysburg. H-burg is much more battle-tested than Oil City, with their losses coming to State College, Cedar Cliff, Fort Hill (MD), and McDowell. I would bet Hollidaysburg wins that and then plays the D2/11 champ, likely Southern Lehigh, another team who has only played teams 4A and lower. Don’t be surprised if we see Wood-Hollidaysburg in the quarters again.

  272. The Great Pumpkin says:

    JC, Santa is more correct than you are. I know SJP is loaded with talent, but SC has played lots of team in the playoffs over the past few years that were loaded with D1 talent and have still managed to win those games pretty easily. In my opinion, there are only 3-5 teams in the state that would give SC a game. And I think those games all could go either way. But with the way that SC defense is playing and how hungry they would be to prove themselves, I think SC in those 5 hypothetical matchups would win more often than lose and could potentially win in all 5 matchups.

    You don’t understand until you have seen them and been a part of what they are. They are suffocating and they take one mistake you make and they start to roll. One mistake becomes 2 and 3 and the team they play goes from down 7 or being tied and you look up 5 mins of game time later and you are down 21 or 28. It is insane.

    Southern is dangerous in every facet of the game. And they can score at any point in time, doesn’t matter if it is their offense, defense or special team on the field.

  273. ColonialFan says:


    I’m a Southern Lehigh guy and have a son that plays for them. This year we are a run oriented team with a strong line and three backs capable of big plays. However, we are also a team that has never won a district title or played a state playoff game. The prospect of playing Wood is well…um…yeah. It could be an exciting year for the team, but we got a ways to go yet!

  274. NW PA says:

    I certainly didn’t mean to knock Oil City, they are undefeated and they are a decent team but they aren’t a top ten 5A team. They are a 4A team playing up. Oil City, Warren, General McLean, and I believe Meadville are all 4A teams that play up to avoid Erie Cathedral in District 10. They just haven’t played anyone good, half their wins are against 3A schools. They could easily loose to Meadville next week in the title game. There are no 5A teams close to northwest PA besides teams in Pittsburgh so I’m not sure who the winner would play after that but when they run into a top 20 5A team I predict a decisive loss.

  275. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, NW PA, and D11 folk:

    I watched the Wood/LaSalle game the other night. The short review, yep, Jeff H read correct. More specifically, I think someone pulled a Homecoming prank and greased the footballs that they used in the first half. Never seen so many fumbles and muffs especially on perfect night for football and by two good teams this late in the season. Wood’s first TD was on a kickoff runback that was complements of complete LaSalle special teams breakdown. Never should have scored on that return. Then on the last play of the half, LaSalle’s best offensive player and RB, Sam Brown gets a leg injury and does not return the rest of the game. A LaSalle blocked xtra point in OT sealed the deal. Not the best effort by LaSalle, and Wood maybe being a young team are starting to find their groove. Their defense did play well.

    Wood’s first half of their playoff run is about as easy as it can get. Ryan (who they crushed earlier in the year), a Bye (or vice versa, a bye then Ryan) then the PPL 5A champ. Then it is the D2-D6-, etc. survivor. Guessing Oil City or Southern Lehigh. NW PA didn’t have the highest of praise for Oil City, and I’m not too familiar with SoLeHi, so let me know your thoughts on those potential match-up’s with Wood. A new face to take on the WPIAL 5A champ this year??

  276. JC says:

    @Santa: Laughable take. SJP beats SoCo fairly handily. There’s a bunch of other high-ranked 6A teams and Cathedral Prep who the Tigers would give a good game, but would still have a tough time beating.

  277. Chief Red Raider says:

    No wonder most people stop believing in Santa at a young age 🙂

  278. Santa says:

    Your wrong Dennis pascoe. There’s no team in the state of pa in any class that would beat them. Not even close. In fact I’m sure they wouldn’t even have to throw the ball to do it.

  279. KevinX /Phillyboy I says:

    Hey Jeff H, I don’t think Wood gets to the semi-finals this year. They have a very young team and may be a force again soon enough. KevinX I agree with you on the NG/PJP matchup. It should be a good one with lots of scoring,

  280. Dennis Pascoe says:

    All this talk about Southern. I have been following for 50+ years and I have seen alot of good teams but this team is actually fun to watch. This is by far the best team to come out of Southern period! Any high school football fan should not miss the chance to see this team. Can they be beaten OF COURSE they can I can think of 7 teams at least. But like they say ” Not bad for a small school in between two cornfields “

  281. D3 Mike says:

    @Jeff short version: District 3 overweights opponents win percentage in the power ranking formula.

    They share 7 common opponents (league play plus Central Dauphin). Of the 3 slots they don’t share, MT played CD East (3-6), Dallastown (2-7), and Cocalico (7-2) while Wilson played Governor Mifflin (6-3), Spring Ford (7-2), and Manheim Central (7-2). So, despite being in the same league Wilson actually comes out much higher on opponents win percentage. And as I said, the current system overweights that factor too much, IMO… but you asked for an explanation, not a defense, so there’s your explanation lol. The long explanation gets into the opponent class adjustment but it’s not really needed here. Basically the seeding is flipped because Dallastown won 2 games and Spring Ford won 7 games this year. Stupid, I know.

    Also, D3 calculates all opponents prior to the season starting so Wilson’s game on Friday vs. 0-10 McCaskey will have zero impact on the calculation (other than McCaskey not getting a win this week). If all of the favorites win, the current seedings will hold, and MT will have to play Central Dauphin in the semifinals and travel to Wilson for the district finals.

  282. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – from the accounts I read it was more a matter of LaSalle beating themselves than Wood playing well, I still don’t think they are on the level of the WPIAL this year and if Wood makes it to the semi-finals would expect the WPIAL team to beat them by a couple of scores. Very intriguing seedings coming up for 5A in the WPIAL, appears Penn-Trafford, Penn Hills and Moon will be the top 3 seeds, with Gateway/Peters Township seeded #4 and #5, which means 2 of the best teams will be meeting in the quarterfinals. I know PennLive has Penn Hills ranked #3 in the state, that’s more on their reputation that what they’ve done on the field, they play in a very weak conference and I don’t think they are the third best team in the WPIAL let alone the state, they will likely have a quarterfinal match-up with McKeesport and I could definitely see them losing that game.

    @Mcd65 – mostly agree with you about Southern Columbia, they would dominate all of 3A, I don’t think there’s a team in the state in 3A that can come within 3 TD’s of them this year, would likely beat everyone in 4A with the possible exception of Erie Prep and perhaps TJ, and would do the same in 5A, but I do think there are several 6A teams that would beat them. In addition to SJP I would favor Manheim Township and Coatesville, and perhaps Wilson, CD and Dwest as well, I do think they would have a chance against any of the top 3 WPIAL 6A teams this year, IMO they are one of the top 10 teams in the state, but top 5 is probably a bit of a stretch.

  283. Jeff H says:

    Can one of your D3 guys please explain how 8-1 Wilson is now ahead of 9-0 MT in the power rankings, MT of course beat them earlier in the season, are undefeated and have a similar strength of schedule, although Wilson does have a slight edge there according to the MaxPreps SOS ratings. There is a flaw in the ranking system if it has Wilson ahead of MT, big implications for the playoffs, whoever is seeded #2 likely has to play red hot CD in the semi-finals, and if the seeds hold Wilson gets to host MT for the championship…certainly seems like MT is getting a raw deal, both teams will win easily this week any chance that can change?

  284. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    I had the second week of November circled on my calendar for some time now, not for the SJP/LaSalle re-match (which may not even happen, RC is finding their mojo), but for a N-G/PJPII match-up. Hope PJPII can beat S-F Friday to possibly get the #1 seed so they can host that game. Really don’t want to go down to South Philly.

  285. Santa says:

    My elves and I have been doing some digging and we came up with some fun facts about the tigers. If you win a pjw championship in wrestling you stand a 83 percent better chance of ending up at southern by the 9th grade. Nobody knows like Santa knows.

  286. Mcd65 says:

    Neuman/Gorretti AAA is 9-0 but not ranked in the Eastern top 5 . They are a pretty explosive team and should make some noise in the playoffs.

  287. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin X , LOL public enemy @1 . IMO you make a lot of very accurate comments and also imo Southern Columbia is certainly one of the best coached teams in the state. They have some great D-1 talent that will definitely run away with AA again with out breaking a sweat. I really enjoy watching them. Now !!! A more accurate assessment of their strength vs. others in the state would be that they would beat all of A ,all ofAA most likely all but maybe 1 in AAA , all but maybe 1 or 2 in AAAA and the same in AAAAA. 6 A would provide my guess about 8 teams that could beat SC.This in NO way is a negative to SC just my opinion . So Kevin.guess who is public enemy @1 now. LOL.This is high school football we are discussing not global warming.

  288. D3 Mike says:

    Of note, Born Power Index just moved Southern Columbia past St. Joe’s Prep and also has Manheim Township within a field goal. Not that I buy that it’s THAT close, but BPI is usually a pretty decent indicator this late in the season.

    I feel like I’m getting trolled over Manheim Central. If so, well done. If they are truly the #1 team in 5A in Eastern-PA, we might as well buy advanced tickets for the WPIAL-5A final to get our 5A entertainment fix. They are obviously playing better than they did in September but they are also just as likely to lose in the district semi-finals as they are to make it to Hershey this year.

  289. ColonialFan says:


    No, the PIAA does not prohibit playing up or down 2 classes. Just looking at the Colonial League you have Southern Lehigh at 5A playing Palmerton and Catasauqua at 2A. So it happens. This is also part of the reason for the scheduling merger with the Schuylkill League to avoid these type of match ups.

  290. mark d says:

    Remember Southern plays in a conference so either they go and play independent or they have to abide by the conference Schedule.Like mike said it not like they have a lot of open weeks that they can fill at a whim, if they start to schedule other schools out side the conference that changes the schedule for all the other schools in the conference.If they decide to play independent then that a whole other nut to crack traveling expense and so on .If Berwick had a super team should it blow off the teams in the Wyoming conference to go play AAAAAA team across the state it make no sense

  291. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Not sure what you mean. But Roman Catholic (6A) played both PJPII and CEC, both 3A schools earlier in the year. SCA does already play 4A schools. What I understand, SCA is bound by their conference (PA Heartland) to only play other PA Heartland schools. Obviously tho they had two exceptions this year.

    Or do you mean voluntarily “playing up” in classification?? You can’t “play down” as far as I know, and I believe Aliquippa out west is a Single A school by enrollment, but is playing up in 3A.

  292. Kevin X says:

    Boy, looks like I just made myself Public Enemy Number 1 in this forum!!!

    Funny, you guys touched on a few ancillary issues that I’ve been wanting to bring up, so maybe later for those.

    “Play someone” is actually a complement, albeit maybe somewhat backhanded. No offense to the Hammond School (not going to rehash my prior post back in August, feel free to drill down or do your own homework), or WA and Montoursville (both nice D2 and D4 schools respectively, but one or the other, assuming it is one of them, will be smoked in the 3A state semi’s), but like Matt said, I would love to see them take on the likes of a State College, ECP, top their WPIAL team, Imhotep, Malvern Prep or gulp, a SJP. What all these teams have in common, is that they aren’t restricted by silly district or league scheduling requirements (that I am aware of) (WPIAL teams can play one non WPIAL game correct??), or teams (D1 and D3) that get their undergarments in bunches over chasing playoff rating points. Here’s a shocker, I believe SCA can beat all of those teams with the exception of Prep, but still maybe give Prep the best game of anyone in the state. I just want to witness it. I just want to see how good they really are. Betting Coach Roth and the SCA players wouldn’t mind one chance at one of these teams. Never know until you play.

  293. New2PA says:

    Aliquippa is 1A and has played 3A for the past several years.

  294. NW PA says:

    Southern Columbia would beat nearly every team in the state minus a couple 5A and 6A teams. Erie Cathedral, TEP, TJ may be able to keep in close. Also I’m not sure why the Patriot has Oil City 5th in 5A. They are a good team but they are not a top 10 team. They play up to avoid Cathedral. They have a very weak schedule.

  295. Brian says:

    I forgot to have Hammond in there from South Carolina. They classified as 3A there, not sure what class they would be there. Either way a quality opponent.

  296. Brian says:

    Southern has played a few 4A schools in the regular season. (Jersey Shore Selinsgrove) They’ve played 5 AAA ( central columbia, shamokin, Montoursville, Wyoming area, and Danville next week). One AA in mount Carmel. One A in south Williamsport. The overall record of their opponents is going to be about 66-34 with guessing week 10 games. That’s a pretty challenging schedule. All 10 will make playoffs. 8 of the 10 will be at least 6-4 or better. I think only one will be below .500

  297. Buddy says:

    @ et al

    Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t the PIAA prohibit playing up 2 classes or down 2 classes?

    i.e. SC can’t play 4A schools, just like North Penn can’t play 4A schools.

    That being the case, SC should schedule as many 3A schools as their schedule allows.

    And if they are, then kudos to them. Input?

  298. D3 Mike says:

    Southern Columbia is a historically good small-school team. I don’t think they could have scheduled any better than they did this year. They would mercy rule any team in any class within a 2-hour drive IMO. I also think people forget that it takes two to tango: I applaud Wyoming for even agreeing to that game – but not everyone will do that. And these schedules are set years in advance so it’s not like a Dallas or a Valley View has gaps they can just fill-in on a whim. If there is any criticism (and I’m not saying he should have done this, but he could have) I guess it’s that Roth knows talent when he sees it and they could have safely classed up for the 2018-2019 cycle. I think they would have probably won 3A and made the 4A final last year – this year they could probably win every class through 5A.

    As a scheduling sidenote, Berks Catholic isn’t half the program of the true 4A powers, let alone Southern Columbia, and their AD just said they’ve already had FORTY teams decline to add them to the 2020-2021 cycle. They have 5 non-league slots and so far they’ve only managed 3 takers: Roman Catholic, Central Dauphin, and Malvern Prep. Granted, they’re a non-boundary school with all of that associated baggage but for a borderline 3A program those are basically 3 mercy rule losses already baked into next year’s schedule. The point is I think most coaches and ADs really do want competitive games and hate lopsided games (that go in EITHER direction), but it’s hard to turn that balanced scheduling wish into a reality.

  299. Matt says:

    @Kevin X….really? Coming from a d11 fan and not a Southern fan but respects them, they play the right way. I have seen them play over the years…..mostly in playoffs and state title games. They have backups in by halftime. It’s that third backups would mercy rule most of these teams. And the schedule they played is probably the most difficult they could schedule…..a good Hammond team with D1 talent on the road to begin season. Then they play their rival in MCA (who is top 10 in AA) who usually gives them a tough game and wins 48-0. Then they schedule a Wyoming Area that is 3rd in AAA in state at the time and win 42-0. They could have just played third conference game and won 100-0. Then they play the 5th ranked in AAA Montoursville team and win 35-0. That’s 2 ranked AAA teams, a AA ranked team and a team in SC that won back to back state titles in AAA. What more do you want from them? I would pay money to see them play a ranked AAAA, AAAAA, or AAAAAA school. They might not win all of them but they would play well. That first game on ESPN I have never seen a HS that disciplined and execute perfect tackling. You want to watch a fundamentally sound team and a team that plays together and has pride playing for third small town? Watch Southern play. Most of the state respects them maybe it’s time you do as well.

  300. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ Kevin X I have thought about who could give Southern a game up here in the N.E. in all 6 classes without traveling 50+ miles. One team comes to mind Dallas way up on the turnpike could give them a game. Roth will not run up a score but you need to have your starters to play at least a half which he will. I believe this Friday they will play less then a half to rest the starters. But again if you know Roth and I have been following Southern a long time he will not run up a score and the comes from a Dunmore Bucks fan.

  301. mark d says:

    @D3 mike Dallas has a very quick and athletic fronts solid passing game and a very hard running tail back..I think they can be passed on .Berwick was in the game and gave it away with turn overs, i think they will meet again. Valley View look likes a tired beat up team if they don.t get healthy i don.t see them going far in the playoff.I really don,t see therm getting passed Dallas or Berwick ..

  302. Brian says:

    Hey Kevin, Go to their games and watch them and you’ll see it’s not running up the score. Subs are in at the 35-0 to 42-0 mark and the back ups are scoring on the other teams starters on just regular run plays. Roth does things the right way anybody who disagrees is clueless or just jealous of the program. How about they just beat the #3 team in AAA in back to back weeks (Wyoming and Montoursville) and did it with shutouts. Oh week 1 they went to south Carolina and beat a 15 time state champ (Hammond) there in their backyard. They also beat maybe the 2nd best team in class AA ( mt. Carmel) in week 2 and will probably play them again. Oh they also beat more than likely the district champ in class 4A (Jersey Shore). Sounds like they played some pretty good teams.

  303. Kevin X says:

    OK, very premature, but still something to mess around with, the Kyle Berger projected D1 6A seedings (he does the power ratings for D1), I’m assuming if chalk holds, for the playoffs. One bizarre scenerio has, IF DTE beats C’Ville on Friday, C’ville drops to #8, and I’m then assuming North Penn gets to take a little road trip out to the “Ville for a first round game, and then continues with a possible C’ville at DTW QUARTER final re-match. Ok, lots off football still to be played next weekend, but something to kick around……

    District One 6A projections:
    1. Downingtown West
    2. CB West
    3. Coatesville
    4. Garnet Valley*
    5. Souderton
    6. Spring-Ford
    7. Abington
    8. P-W
    9. North Penn
    10. Downingtown East
    11. Haverford
    12. Perk Valley
    13. OJR*
    14. Ridley
    15. CB South
    16. CB East
    *tiebreak winner

  304. L-L fan says:

    D3 Mike Don’t be surprised if either cocalico or central or both pass shippensburg after week 10 5A rankings….here’s a stat for you: shippenburg’s opponents weighted win % is the LOWEST among all 28 5A teams…..they’re hanging on to number one spot , but barely…….they will have to prove they are better than their schedule when playoffs roll around

  305. Kevin X says:

    76-0, 62-0, 62-0 and 76-6 in consecutive weeks, not running up the scores and shows respect for his opponents??? Please, give me a break. Better, yet, play someone.

  306. Mike A says:

    @D3 Mike
    Wilson and Manheim Township are very close in the ratings (0.832914 to 0.831563). Wilson plays McCaskey who is winless while Manheim Township plays Hempfield (4 wins). With both teams picking up points from other teams Wilson will pick up little this week from McCaskey while Township should win easily and have the win over Hempfield (currently 8th in 6A seeding) count more towards their rating. I expect Manheim Township to regain the #1 seed although it will still be very close and may depend on the results of some of the other teams each team has faced. It will also be interesting to see if Chambersburg or Red Lion can move into the 7th or 8th seed if, or more likely when, Hempfield loses to ManheimTownship. Both Chambersburg and Red Lion are close to Hempfield in the ratings. I think CV, currently the 7th seed, is far enough ahead of both teams even if they lose to State College. How in the world did Chambersburg lose to Red Lion? They have played powerhouses like State College (L 27-17), Central Dauphin (L 28-23), and Harrisburg (L 27-25) tough while pulling away from Cumberland Valley late. Red Lion is a very average team by my observations who has played a weak schedule. They were demolished by an 8-1 Central York team (a team Cumberland Valley beat) 59-7 and lost to a 3 win South Western team 17-14 and New Oxford 17-0 an 8 seed 5A qualifier. Were there injuries for Chambersburg (plays Carlisle next week) when they played Red Lion (plays Dallastown next week) or was it just an ugly game. They are way too good to lose to Red Lion.

  307. Buddy says:

    Wait! I got that all wrong don’t I ?

    If NP winds up 10th seed, they would play the 7th seed right?

    Damn! I was hoping for CB West! Oh well. As it stands now ( sure it will change), it be Springford.

    Seen Springford play, those boys must be corn-fed! That is one big team.

    Too much conjecture right! Gotta simply wait another week.

  308. Buddy says:

    As it stands now, NP is 10th seed, which means they would play #2 seed, which is CB West.

    That is exactly what I want! Of course, with one more game, that most likely won’t stand.

    My 2nd choice would be CB South ( see the pattern here, yes, it’s the revenge factor! )

    Don’t think the latter is possible in 1st round. Both will probably be bottom bracket.

    BTW, there’s some really good matchups for the last week that will dramatically effect the seedings.

    That’s just good scheduling!

  309. D3 Mike says:

    And to follow up on the power ranking formula discussion, Wilson just moved ahead of Manheim Township in D3-6A despite the fact that they lost to MT and play in the same league. I get rewarding teams for difficult schedules but this shows that opponents’ record is just too heavily weighted in the current formula. FWIW, Wilson’s 4 non-league opponents are all undefeated in league play which is crazy if you think about it.

    As it stands, MT would play Cumberland Valley, Central Dauphin and at Wilson – which own a combined 23 district and 2 state titles between them. If they make it through that to play the D1 winner they definitely will have earned the trip.

    I’m guessing after this weekend that Coatesville is back to being the slight favorite to come out of D1?

  310. Brisn says:

    Lol Santa. Nothing wrong with the offense. Roth could’ve chose to score another time before half and make it 35-0 at half. He just ran some basic runs and ran out the clock. My guess is that he wants his starters playing longer in the 2nd half since playoffs are around the corner. Roth also took the starters out at the end of the 3rd with the ball on Montoursville 14. The backups couldn’t score so it could’ve been 49-0 if Roth wanted to score more but he doesn’t run up scores and shows respect for his opponents.

  311. D3 Mike says:

    Considering that 6A is basically a moot point (at least at the state level) the two results last night that intrigued me were Wood over LaSalle and Dallas over Berwick.

    Does this put Archbishop Wood back up there with the WPIAL teams? And how does Dallas look compared to the Valley View squads from the past few years?

  312. Kevin X says:

    Santa hitting the egg nog hard, and waaaaaay too early…….

  313. Santa says:

    Any picks on who would win between southern and psu. My pick is southern. I’m guessing psu would be 1st and goal from the 1 ft line to win the game. Any takers on what would happen next. Nevermind Santa will fill you in. Franklin would have his qb in shotgun at the 1 ft line and get stopped 4 straight plays instead of qb sneaking from under center. My pick southern 12-7 over psu

  314. Santa says:

    35-0 southern over montoursville. Anyone make this game to see what exactly went on last night. Up at the North Pole Santa and my elves are scratching our heads. Now I see the defense has sured things up after a couple tough weeks of giving up 20. Let’s talk offense though. What exactly is going on southern is only averaging 38.5 points per game the last 2 games. Any input anyone who maybe made the last 2 games. Are people injured or ineligible. Please send Santa some info on the offensive woes going on in southern

  315. Uncle T says:

    What a Friday night in southeastern PA.

    I don’t understand how Dapree Bryant is not more heavily recruited. That kid is magic- he’s got a bit of KJ Hamler in him, plays with an edge, and could be a steal for Villanova in a couple of years. Penn State of all teams should have been in on him more as a Hamler-esque replacement in waiting (not saying he’s as good as KJ, just a very similar style with room to grow). I’ll be pulling for him to have a great career in FCS.

    Love seeing the new crop of teams take over the SOL this year, though North Penn is still going to be a handful for whoever gets matched up with them.
    Garnet Valley has their typical 4-5 running backs who will be fresh for 4 quarters. I’d love to see them and DTown East play.
    A Coatesville/D-Town West rematch seems like a pretty safe bet.
    Wood is alive.

    Bring on the playoffs.

  316. Buddy says:

    I was at the Springford/ Perk Valley game. There’s another result I didn’t expect!

    NP last game is at Crawford. Maybe the last game ever at Crawford.

    I’m assuming ( or actually hoping) NP had some key players out against CBS.

    Probably not though. Will be a rough playoff trek for my ol alma mater!

  317. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Spring-Ford and Perk Valley was another very good one in D1 tonight!!!

    NP should be fine next week, unless the former Wood RB, Santiago (?), runs wild against them. I’m assuming that game will be at Crawford??

  318. Buddy says:

    Well, how wrong can one be!

    C’ville over DTW ! Souderton over CB West in OT!

    NP loses by one point ( again) to CB South!

    Wood over LaSalle in OT! Am I missing any?

    This is why they play the games! Actually, this is good for football. It can get too predictable.

    My team ( I’m sure you know who that is by now), will be in the bottom bracket at playoffs now.

    And if they lose their last game, won’t be in the playoffs at all!

  319. Kevin X says:

    Buddy Buddy, what is you definition of close?? A double OT Soudy victory complements of a partially blocked Xtra point that doinked off the crossbar back into the end zone that was ultimately the deciding point?? Can’t get much closer that that in my book!!! Jus’ messing’ with ya my friend 🙂 Awesome game in Franconia Twsp. this evening. Some great games it appears across D1 tonight as well.

  320. Chief Red Raider says:

    C’ville wins 29-21. Great game — watch it on the archive. It’s all about speed and a good QB. Ricky still looks like he’s not 100% (IMO), but he played well. I thought their play calling was better, but not sure why they didn’t let their running backs play more. Still some dumb penalties that almost cost them the game, but pretty disciplined overall.

  321. Jay says:

    I’m sitting on the Coatesville side but I predict a 10-14 point Dtown win and not a very high scoring affair. Something like 31-21, not a barn burner. Hopefully the Raiders prove me wrong, but this may be the best West team I’ve seen in a decade.

  322. Buddy says:

    The local radio station ( WNPV) is hyping up the CBW/ Souderton tilt. Undefeated vs 1 loss. It won’t even be close.

    DTW / C’ville won’t really be close either. DTE/ C’ville will be a much better game next week.

    Poor C’ville has both those games away. Can’t wait for the seedings and playoffs!

  323. Kevin X says:

    One more streaming option for you guys this evening……..LaSalle @ Wood.

    This could be a good game to see how good, or not so good, Wood is this year. Hard to gauge them with their early non PIAA schedule. Then they loose to Roman. They beat Ryan as expected (who they’ll meet again in the D12/PCL 5A playoffs, if you actually want to call it the playoffs) and loose to SJP, as expected. Same with LaSalle, are they really the second best team in the state of PA!!!, or just another very good 6A school (who isn’t going anywhere past the second weekend of November regardless). The intrigue………..

    (The game will be archived, so can always catch it at some other point on YouTube). Thank you Bob Long!!!!!!

  324. Foleman says:

    4th and Long, Kutztown has a coop with Brandywine HS which moves them up to 3A, It’s too bad that they can only get about 20 kids out for the football team with a 3A classification. Fleetwood also has coop with Oley Valley HS which moves them up to the 4A classification. Conrad Weiser decided not to enter into a Coop with Antitiem HS which does not have football because it would put them up to a 5A classification

  325. Kevin X says:

    Tonight’s Coatesville @ Downingtown West is video streaming via:

    or (same stream, different access)

  326. Jeff H. says:

    Who do you D1 guys like in the big match-up tonight between Coatesville-Dwest? I am expecting a high scoring game and will take Dwest 42-35, but I think this game could go either way and would not be surprised if Coatesville wins.

    Not many big time games in the WPIAL this weekend, all the 6A powers play weaker opponents and none will be challenged, best game, or at least the one with the most playoff implications is in 5A between Peters Township and Bethel Park, both are tied with Moon for the conference lead at 4-1, loser of this game is more than likely eliminated from the conference race, both have already clinched playoff spots. Peters crushed them last year 35-0, I like Peters tonight but expect this game to be much closer, something like 27-21.

    Any big games of note in other districts this weekend?

  327. 4th and Long says:

    I was perusing the PIAA football classifications and there are a handful of schools that are larger than programs in a lower class or smaller than programs in a higher class. I’m not talking about powerhouse programs that choose to play above their enrollment like Aliquippa or Imhotep, I’m talking about schools like Kutztown and School of the Future, who obviously don’t choose to play up. Is that due to them encompassing Vo-Tech or other schools in the same district without their own programs, or are there regional adjustments made for travel/conference/district alignment considerations? I’ve seen that done in other states where a team might be moved up or down for geographic considerations. Neither explanation makes sense in the case of SOF, but might explain Kutztown being 3A. Anyone have any insight into this?

  328. Jeff H. says:

    @NWPA – WPIAL scheduled the Central Valley-TJ game, they played them last yr as well, it was a 2yr home and home, the only game WPIAL teams have the flexibility to schedule their own opponent is week 0, and as you stated they scheduled Cannon Mac. I think they would have been better served by scheduling a big time 5A or 6A program, they should have tried to schedule Cannon Mac’s neighbor Peters Township, that would have been a much bigger test for them. I agree with you this is the best TJ team in the last several years and think the game with ECP will be pretty competitive, but still think ECP will win by a couple of scores, I’m hoping the game is in the Pittsburgh area this year so I can attend, was at the game at Baldwin in 2016 which was closer than the final score would indicate.

  329. Jeff H. says:

    @ Buddy – completely agree with you, I said 3 years ago the PIAA should have gone to 5 classes and not 6, I do think there was a need to create another class, because there was too much disparity in size between the smaller and larger 4A schools, there were 4 classes from 1980-2015, so it was time to add another class, but 2 was a step too far IMO, and it’s certainly had some unintended consequences.

    @D3 Mike – WPIAL is still upset they can’t hold all their championships on the same day at Heinz Field, many in the WPIAL view that as more important than the state playoffs, I don’t agree with that sentiment, but that’s how a lot of old timers feel around here. I agree the WPIAL is still in the dark ages when it comes to conference alignments, and they need to make some changes for the benefit of everyone and appears they are finally seeing the light, but I don’t know why that means they have to crown 5 champions instead of 6 like they’re discussing.

    WPIAL 4A is pretty weak, there are 2 very good programs in TJ and South Fayette and that’s about it, so TJ is still going to win 9-10 games/year unless they put them in a conference with a bunch of really good 5A teams, and even then they would still win their fair share of games.

  330. NW PA says:

    I give TJ credit for scheduling Central Valley this year. The WPIAL kills a lot of good teams by not allowing them to schedule non conference games. Look at Erie Cathedral’s schedule last year and this year. They were battle tested for the playoffs last year and I expect the same this year. Not sure why TJ went with Cannon Mac this year, not really a challenging game. None the less don’t count them out this year they are loaded and will give Erie Cathedral a great game.

  331. Kevin X says:

    Bottom line, I believe, is that the Districts and PIAA all want their respected cakes and eat them too. Districts want their district playoffs and be able to crown multiple champions, then they want their teams to go onto to state honors, and the PIAA wants to stage a stateside championship to to crown their own champions. It’s an exercise of putting the square peg in a round hole. This all consists of way too many teams and too many weeks of play/games involving a sport like football, at least on the high school level.

    @ Buddy, you may see 7 classifications (a “Super 7” level/classification for the largest schools and best teams) before going down to 5 classifications, or even back to 4.

  332. Buddy says:

    Why did we have to jump from 4 classes to 6 ? Was 5 classes ever considered?

    It depleted some classes so much ( Class 5 for instance), that they can’t field representative playoff teams.

    Can one lobby the PIAA to drop down to 5 ? We ( or the AD’s in the high schools) should present this to the PIAA.

  333. Racer X says:

    SoCo’s Julian Fleming named #1 recruit in nation by ESPN. Congratulations.

  334. 4th and Long says:

    Pennsylvania is the fifth state I’ve lived and the PIAA is the weakest governing body I’ve come across. HS athletics here are a disorganized mess on so many levels and football is the worst. The districts have way too much leeway in a variety of issues and the mixing of teams in different classifications within conferences is out of control. Too many teams make the district playoffs. The playoffs here should be over in four rounds from the end of the regular season to Hershey. That’s enough to get every legitimate district/league champion in along with some deserving at large teams.

  335. D3 Mike says:

    Yeah, I read that Mike White article, Jeff. Pretty confusing, TBH. I don’t understand why you have to create a 4 or 5 class system just to group programs geographically? Everyone else in the state manages to do it without injecting the extra complication of a parallel class system.

    And especially now – I have no idea why everyone is still so concerned with the class of the teams they are playing, their league, home and homes, opponent win percentage, etc. It’s not 1993 when only 16 teams made districts and 16 made states – in all classes! Go 6-4 now (if not worse) and you’re in districts almost everywhere, so who cares if you’re a 3A school playing in a mostly 4A league? And if you’re all that worried about playoff seeding, frankly, you’re probably not good enough anyways. Not to mention with 6 classes what’s the real difference between two classes? 30 boys per grade? It’s all over-engineered IMO.

    Really the hardest part for the WPIAL will be to come up with another system that can guarantee TJ a 9+ win regular season each year :/

  336. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – ironically there was a big article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette online yesterday about the WPIAL making some significant changes with their conference alignments and playoff format. WPIAL has always only had teams of the same classification in the same conference, which I think is unique across the state, but the move to 6 classes has eliminated many natural rivalries as a result, and there are schools traveling 90+ minutes each way for games due to grouping teams by classification, you’ve got Uniontown and California in the south going to play New Castle and Laurel and other teams an hour north of Pittsburgh. The end result has been a substantial drop in attendance at many schools. The new talk is going to 5 classes, and grouping teams by area and not classification, so there would be teams from different classifications in the same conference, and as a byproduct would have to go to some type of points system like Gardner for determining playoff qualifiers. Would still send 6 teams to states, but probably combine 5A and 6A, as there are only 9 6A teams in the WPIAL now. Will be interesting to see what happens but appears there is growing consensus among coaches and AD’s that there needs to be some significant changes in this new landscape of 6 classes.

  337. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T

    I have had several post season/playoff scenarios floating around in my head at any giving time, from minor tweaks to total reorganization.

    I do like your proposal of not allowing any sub .500 team in the post season playoffs. I’d take it a few step further by throwing out there that any district playoff bracket must have a minimum pool of 8 schools in their respective classification to stage a playoff bracket (not an 8 team bracket, just 8 or more schools within a respective district classification). If a district has a classification with less than 8 schools, then they would need to find and form a subregional bracket.

  338. mark d says:

    @kevin x the rating system in D2 is very simple if you work for NASA thier a bunch of factors and them you divide by something and multiply by something .Do what i do check it on here lol

  339. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    I’m guessing then there is never any controversy or whining as far as how the seedings fall in D7, or who makes (or misses) the post season, correct?? Just kidding!! Here in D1, it is straight forward, yet I wouldn’t call it a real world common sense human eye test accurate system (but I guess when just about everyone gets in, except for in 6A, who cares, right??). But it is an easy peazy lemon squeezy no muss no fuss system that basically a 7th grader can do the math. Just looking around the rest of the east districts and their systems, yikes, just on the surface looking at all the columns and abbreviations, you need a PhD in mathematics from MIT to figure it out. I’m guessing tho its not that complicated, just looks intimidating at an initial glance.

    Anybody know if the rating systems for D2, D3, D4 and D11 are the same??

  340. Kevin X says:

    I’ll go with West Chester East in D1 5A. They do have a potentially tough, inter school district rivalry game down at WC Rustin Friday, call it the undercard game in Ches-Mont football this weekend, so I think that will be a nice test for them as far as butting heads with other 5A schools. Their only two losses this year have been to the two Downingtowns, so no shame in that.

  341. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you about Warwick, I’ve been high on them all year, I still think they are the best 5A team in D3, and probably better than any of the teams in D1, do they have a chance to move up at all in the power rankings the last 2 weeks and thus get a better seed? Speaking of rankings, I see this website has MC as the #3 team in the east, and Warwick not rated, how do you have teams with the same 6-2 record but the team that lost by 30 points to the other team is ranked and they are not? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

    Interesting that the other districts strictly use the power points to seed their teams, the WPIAL has a committee that does all the seeding, with strength of schedule taken into account, so a team like Warwick with 2 loses to 2 really good 6A teams might be seeded higher than say a team like Shippensburg who is undefeated but played a weak schedule. As far as WPIAL 5A Penn Trafford is the team to beat, they are the best program in the WPIAL never to win a district title, having lost in the finals several times, most recently 2 yrs ago to Gateway in 5A, and 4 yrs ago to Central Catholic in 4A when Central went on to win the state title over Parkland. Gateway is very good and so is Peters Township, they lost to a solid Moon team 2 weeks ago on the road and in typical Penn Live fashion they dropped them all the way out of the rankings…I can guarantee you Peters is a top 10 team in the state in 5A, suspect they will at least make the semi-finals like last year when they gave Penn Hills all they could handle. There are a lot of other very solid teams in the WPIAL in 5A but I would be very surprised if the champ is not one of these 3, could be a rematch of 2017, and the script could play out the same, Penn Trafford beats up Gateway in the regular season but loses to them in the district final.

  342. Uncle T says:

    I see this playoff debate from both sides.

    D1 5A has a realistic chance of having a 2-8 team as its 16 seed this year. 2 and 8, for the chance to get waxed off the field by the 1 seed who will be risking injuries. How about a PIAA statewide rule that a team must be at least .500 to qualify for postseason play, and if any sub .500 team happens to qualify via points, their would-be opponent then gets a bye?

    On the other hand, some of these bottom tier teams could really use any extra selling points they can get to boost numbers for their programs. It’s easy for us to see it as fools gold, but a 14-18 year old can see the chance to play on the bigger stage as something achievable. They may be better off for it too, to give themselves and their friends a chance to pull off a miracle-on-dirt or 2.

  343. D3 Mike says:

    You’re definitely right about the WPIAL winner being the statewide favorites in 5A. FWIW, the team probably coming out of District 3 this year (Warwick) will not only miss out on a Week 11 bye but they might be on the road for much of the district playoffs. That’s what happens when you make enemies in the league office and get Manheim Township and Wilson back-to-back in October as a 5A. Despite the hit to their power rankings, though, Warwick still has the best chance to get to Hershey out of anyone in D3, in any class, IMO. I’ve seen them live once and on TV a second time and have been impressed by their physicality compared to past years.

    Speaking of Hershey, not sure if mentioned on the forums (I assume it was when it was announced in August) but due to cost constraints from renting the stadium, all District 3 championship final games will be played at the home site of the highest remaining seeded team for the first time this year. We’ve historically played finals at Hershey Stadium and it will definitely impact attendance considering the geographic size of the district.

    Curious whom everyone thinks will come out of the mess of teams in D7 and D1 in 5A at this point? Feel like we sometimes neglect the 5A talk.

  344. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – agree about D3 being forced to take their “bye” in week 11 and not week 14, that at least makes an imperfect system a little bit fairer. Also agree with you about district playoffs taking less teams, the WPIAL is the same as D1 in wanting to take as many teams as possible, in WPIAL 5A 16 out of 23 make the playoffs, and there will be some really bad teams at 3-7 in the playoffs just so they could have a full 16 team bracket. Didn’t seem to hurt the champion last year when Penn Hills won the 5A state title, and in my opinion the winner of the WPIAL 5A this year is the favorite for the state title, but it’s ridiculous that several sub-500 teams make the district playoffs, seems to me it’s all about the money that can be made by having more playoff games than doing the right thing and giving top teams a week off before the playoff grind starts.

  345. JC says:

    I was not at that game, so clearly I missed the general narrative behind it, but I don’t think it’s debatable that Imhotep is a bit weaker this year than in the past. They just haven’t been blowing out their PPL opponents like they have in past years. They’re still the best 4A team in the PPL (Having Ben Franklin and not Imhotep in the Team to Watch is, frankly, quite silly), but are more vulnerable this year than most if a team can bring it to them. My bet would be that the East finals are still Tep-Becahi in the end.

    Regardless, 2nd place is what they’re playing for, don’t see any of them having the horses to stay with Cathedral, much less win.

  346. mark d says:

    Jc Kevin x is correct Valley View was never in the game last year and that score was 37 -9 not 19 I don’t think you need to worry about Valley View after the butt whooping Dallas laid on them >The Berwick Dallas game this week will tell us a lot on how good the AAAA teams are in D2

  347. D3 Mike says:

    Re: Coatesville and Harrisburg, and as I stated last year when it was brought up on the forums, D3 should be required to hold it’s bye in week 11 and not allowed to have a week 14 bye. That’s my take. But beyond that, I’d suggest D1 take a page from D3 and arrange its playoffs in a more sensible fashion – and one that gives its top seeds a better chance to advance.

    Every district/region is given X weeks to conduct playoffs by the PIAA. D3 is given 4 weeks for 5A and 6A – the same as D1 (the former has 46 total teams, the latter 61 total teams). D3 chooses to send 8 of 18 to districts in 6A which sometimes means a 7-3 team in the district doesn’t make it. Oh well. Many other districts/regions send 9, 10, or even 12 in similar situations.

    I’d suggest D1-6A slim down to 14 teams. There is no need to send 6-4 (or even 5-5) 6A teams into districts just to get mercy ruled in week 11 by undefeated 1 and 2 seeds. Such a chance would reward a Coatesville (last year) or a CB / Downingtown this year with a much needed off week before the big push.

    Meanwhile, D1 and D3 both have exactly 28 teams in 5A. One gives its top seeds a bye in week 11. The other is actually going to have multiple 3-7 teams in the “playoffs” this year because it sends 16 into the district bracket. That’s crazy IMO, and that off week could make all of the difference for a Warwick or a Manheim Central (again) in the state semi-final.

    As I said, D3 should be required to hold the 6A bye in week 11 instead of week 14… but D1 should also accept responsibility for failing to help its own top programs advance as much as it could.

  348. Chief Red Raider says:

    Does anyone have the scoop on Ricky Ortega’s injury? He looked pretty good tonight, but really didn’t run. If he’s 100%, the DTW game should be great. Conversely, if he can’t scramble or do his draws, not sure if C’ville can outgun DTW. Yet again, C’ville’s defense is playing well (1st team only gave up 3 point tonight).

  349. Jeff H. says:

    @D3Mike – couldn’t agree with you more on all your points about 4A, that’s definitely the toughest class for a public school to win, we’ll see with the new enrollment who moves where, but appears that class might get a bit easier for a public in the next 2 yr cycle.

    Very impressive win for CD tonight over State College, I think D3 has the best group of 4 teams in 6A, better than top 4 in WPIAL, DI or any other district, should be one heck of a district playoff.

    @Kevin X – I think Becahi has the best chance to beat Imhotep this year, but then again you could have said that for the last 3 yrs, with Tep down a bit this could finally be the year.

  350. Buddy says:

    One could sum up the game as follows:

    CB West : 0 turnovers
    North Penn: 3 turnovers

    ( Also missing 2 of the 4 extra points certainly hurt)

    I don’t really care about the loss per se, but NP might drop to bottom bracket in the seedings.

    First playoff game may not be at home ( wherever that might be!)

    Good chance they get knocked out 1st game.

  351. Mike A says:

    Final: Central Dauphin 34 State College 13

  352. Jay says:

    Kevin X,

    I can vouch for that site, I subscribed last year to catch the Texas playoffs, which go 2-3 weeks later than ours do. The actual finals aren’t available on NFHS though – Fox has the rights to them and it took blind luck for me to find a stream of the Duncanville-North Shore final.

    Also, great point from an earlier post about Harrisburg having a bye week the week before the state semifinal. No matter who you root for, you just can’t look at that and say it’s fair.

  353. Kevin X says:

    @ JC

    I don’t know if you were at that Imhotep/Valley View playoff game last November, but I was. If you were, you must have just gotten to the game at halftime. Imhotep basically from my seat, dominated that first half. It got a little chippy and sloppy in the second half, and Valley View had a few late scores to make the final score closer than the game actually was.

    I do agree with you that they are not as strong as in the past several years and that this would be the year to pick them off, be it Valley View, Dallas, Berwick or Becahi. But don’t let last week’s loss to Northeast fool you, as Northeast is a pretty good 6A team. Shame that Northeast and LaSalle are stuck in D12 and have to go thru SJP early in the playoffs. I’d be curious to see those two teams in for example the D1 6A playoffs to see how they would fair on a more level and competitive playing field. Another thing, Imhotep will sleepwalk to the PPL Championship, but maybe Bonner or Carroll (if fully healthy) can pull an upset in the D12 championship game before the D2 representative gets their chance. They are both having decent years. Bonner/Carroll meet Saturday, so that could be an intriguing game in itself.

  354. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    You can maybe try the below web link for video streaming of tonight’s NP @ CBW game. It is not free, appears to be $10 a month charge with a reoccurring fee. So just be careful if you sign up and know how to cancel after a month if you desire to stop access. I’ve never used it, so can’t vouch for the quality or anything else about it. Maybe others can lend some feedback and reviews of the site. I myself do plan on attending the game in person tonight. I agree with Mcd65 that the PCN game is going to be basically worthless. Also a shame that the 3CTV game is not DTW @ WCE, but Shanahan and C’Ville. It is a PCN direct production, as opposed to most of their broadcasts which are just feeds from local broadcasters, so too bad they couldn’t re-route their truck to Doylestown tonight instead of Chester. I’d much rather spend a Friday evening in Doylestown versus Chester that’s for sure.

  355. Mike Smoll says:

    CBW runs a version of the old Delaware Wing T, which is very difficult to defend, it will require North Penn to play a very disciplined defense, I think a lot like the Souderton game, North Penn’s depth will wear CBW down. If CBW stays healthy throughout the game, it will come down to the 4th qtr, which I see going North Penn’s way. Being the game is at War Memorial in Doylestown, I see this as a 24-21 hard earned North Penn victory.

  356. mark d says:

    more worried about getting threw tonight with Valley View. Dallas is a very good football team and Valley View is banged up we lost out 2 best receivers.we probably move our guard out to tight end which will bring a sophomore in the play guard. Tackle got a sour knee and i not sure why the coach is playing a freshman at safety.No i going to worry about Dallas.Dallas, Berwick and Valley View are going to see each other in the playoff !!!

  357. D3 Mike says:

    The problem for D2 (and for the WPIAL to a lesser extent) is a lot of the district’s better public school programs sit in the same class (4A) that is loaded with non-boundary state powers. Berwick, Dallas, and Valley View hold 8 state titles between them – but none since 1997. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 4A has been filled – or is now filled – with the likes of Wood, ECP, ACC, BECA, McDevitt, and Imhotep in the years since. I haven’t done the math but the current 4A schools probably have the most state titles between them. It’s just a loaded class and to expect a Thomas Jefferson or a Dallas to play through some combination of three non-boundary schools to win a state title is just not very realistic (unfortunately). Every other class you basically have to beat St. Joe’s Prep or Wood – it’s 1 brutal non-boundary game but at least it’s not 3 brutal non-boundary games.

    I’m VERY interested to see how the balance-of-power changes between the classes next cycle, though. ECP should be moving up to 5A and I believe Berks Catholic, ACC, BECA, and McDevitt are all on the cusp of 3A based on enrollment. Even if just one of them moves down (and Southern Columbia moves up) it could both strengthen 3A and open 4A up a bit for traditional public schools again. That still doesn’t help with Imhotep but at least it would be a start.

    Also, news and notes from around D3:

    Wilson vs. Warwick tonight should be a good one. Warwick played Manheim Township a lot closer than the score last week would suggest… Call it: Wilson 21 – Warwick 20.

    Kutztown’s head coach was suspended for the rest of the season yesterday over a personnel dispute with the administration over assistant coaches. Recall that Kutztown hasn’t won a game since 2016 and has now given up an unbelievable 397 points in 6.5 games of largely mercy rule football (for the lazy, that’s 61 points per game allowed). Kutztown plays Wyomissing this weekend and Vegas has this one as 80/20 odds of being cut short at halftime…. Call it: Wyomissing 63 – Kutztown 0 (yep, definitely suspended at the half).

    Millersburg has forfeited its game this weekend due to a lack of players. They are currently in first place out of the three teams in D3-A. And yes, we do inexplicably still hold a district championship game. Millersburg may actually have to cancel the rest of the season due to safety concerns of playing underclassmen – if that happens, it would probably match up a 1-9 Fairfield squad vs. a 0-10 Halifax team for all the marbles. Imagine your only win of the season is a district title? Only in district 3.

  358. JC says:

    Last year Valley View kept it a game against Imhotep, 37-19. If ever there was a year to break through for D2, it’d be this one, as Imhotep doesn’t look quite as good as years past. If it doesn’t happen this year, not sure if they’ll see a better chance anytime soon.

  359. Mcd65 says:

    PCN game this week will be a blowout.Prep will roll Wood. Too bad CB West/North Penn couldn’t be the game.

  360. mark d says:

    @ NWPA Valley View is a little better on Offence this year and a little worse on defense as for Dallas i have not seen play .History tell us teams from D2 don.t do well against urban all star teams so i see this year being no different

  361. NW PA says:

    If anyone goes to the Valley View/Dallas game id love to know how both teams look. Is there a chance either team could get past Tep in the quarters? Even if they did could they get past Bechai? Maybe I’m thinking too far ahead. Let’s not forget that Berwick is still in the mix as well.

  362. mark d says:

    Big game in D2 AAAA Valley View hosts Dallas third undefeated team Valley View take on in the last 3 weeks .Dallas still has Berwick but this game will go a long way in determining seeding,Should be a great match up !!!!

  363. Mcd65 says:

    phiIllyboy/Buddy. West /NP should be a great contest.West has some offensive firepower this yearand that winged t is fun to watch.My 3 grandkids go to West and they tell me the school is really super excited for this one.The NBI will be packed prior to the game for sure. If Im feeling up to it Im going to make both and Budy is right about the parking even handicap. Go Bucks !!!!

  364. D2 Jacob says:

    Glad to see the WA Vs. SCA game back on but I don’t think it will close. WA is very undisciplined and commit to many penalties to be competitive with disciplined teams. I saw a few of their games and I don’t think that have enough speed to make it close. If it is not a shut out I only think WA scores 6 points.

  365. Brian says:

    Lol Santa. Is that sarcasm? 14 of the 20 points were 2nd/3rd team players. Starting defense gave up one td and that was last week. However on the td drive for jersey shore, 3 different times the defense was in position to make a tack low but slipped on the crappy field that jersey shore has and on the td they had an illegal pick play that wasn’t called. I will say jersey shoe did make some good adjustments in the 2nd quarter to get their touchdown. There’s nothing suspect about the defense.

  366. Buddy says:

    You got that right phillyboy! Haven’t seen this kinda hype for this game in 20 years!

    NP’s top RB was taken out this past Fri., early 1st quarter.

    I believe possible concussion. If he isn’t cleared, good chance CB West wins.

    I hope he can play. That stadium will be rockin’! If you plan on goin’, parking at CB West is a bitch.

  367. Santa says:

    Southerns defense has been suspect the last couple weeks giving up 20 points in the last 2 games. I’m not sure if they are content with things or kids are injured on defense. Going into week 8 with there defensive woes I’m going to make a prediction for the Wyoming area game. Santa predicts 77-20 southern. I believe there offense will pull through but southerns defense will continue to struggle. Look to see both Garcias to have 200 on the ground with just 14 carries combined between the 2. Fleming will have an off night with 180 receiving on 4 catches but will only score twice. Southern will look to go 8-0 on this one but needs work defensively if they want to compete for the district title. For any other predictions look us up at www.

  368. phillyboy says:

    It’s deja vu all over again — 1999 is in the air,,,,feeling nostalgic for Napster, Y2K hype, pagers, Wawa 20 oz. coffee for 99 cents, Coke 12 packs for $2.99, Mayor John F. Street, oh yeah and phillyboy’s prime (huh-huh). And last but not least, CB West, baby. Say it ain’t so, are the Bucks really still undefeated this far into the season? It’s been a minute. Makes for a fun matchup with North Penn this weekend, Based on results of common opponents, CB West might be somewhat for real.

  369. JC says:

    I don’t know if it was pointed out yet, but Northeast defeated Imhotep this past week. First PPL team to defeat Imhotep since 2013, I believe (Thanksgiving against MLK) and first league loss since 2011. Northeast should go on to with the top division of the PPL pretty easily now.

  370. Buddy says:

    Anyone know if the NP/CB West game is live streamed?

  371. Kevin X says:

    Harrisburg also had a bye the week prior to the game with C’Ville, while the Red Raiders got to travel up to Perkasie to play North Penn for the D1 Championship game. I’m sure having Thanksgiving Weekend off didn’t hurt the H-burg cause, nor did it do any favors for C’Ville.

  372. Chief Red Raider says:

    Phillyboy: I’m not sure if there is a clear answer as to why C’ville lost to Harrisburg last year. I watched the game, and I think the biggest thing was probably Harrisburg’s speed and size, plus their QB got better as the year went along — he was the deciding factor. Plus CV just didn’t play a great game and the penalty bug hurt them too, but they still had a shot at the end. As far as this year goes, I think they are a sleeper team that people are forgetting about (Pennlive doesn’t even has them in the top 10). They lost a lot of talent, have a lot of young guys, looked horrible the 1st game (15? penalties) — and still could have won. Ricky has been hurt too. The C’ville/Downingtown games should be great if Ricky is healthy. Not going to make any predictions, but I think the folks already making predictions by looking at the DTE/DTW score might be putting too much stock in that result. I think both teams have a lot to praise and a lot of talent, but IMHO their defenses got pretty shredded last night. C’ville still has 2 of the top skill players in the state, and their defense is continuing to gel.

  373. D3 Mike says:

    I don’t think it’s that complicated. Harrisburg lost their core players (Parsons et al) from 2017’s team and didn’t have it together week 0. By the time they played Coatesville, they were also rolling and were probably also overlooked a bit by Coatesville due to the first match-up. Harrisburg did make the state final 2 of 3 years, played Prep close last year, and beat Coatesville again to start 2019 so I’d say the first game last year was more of an anomaly than the state semifinal.

    Jeff, yeah that was a surprising result. Those schools are close rivals and I have to wonder if there is some scouting or ex-coach crossover advantage Milton Hershey has on Middletown’s unique wing-t variant. Bishop McDevitt is also nearby and shut Middletown down in a bizarre 6-2 game in September. Idk. Hershey did make the district semi-finals last year and with McDevitt and Berks Catholic down could end up winning a weak 4A field this year in district 3. Despite 3 losses BC is still currently the 3 seed out of 22 schools.

    Re: Wyomissing, they won’t have another competitive game until they play Middletown. Years of losing the rivalry plus BC sitting at 93 points on the season in October leads everyone to believe that Wyomissing will roll them in week 10. Something like 28-7. It could also be the last regular season game in a while between the two since BC is volunteering to move up to Berks section 1 (all 5As plus Reading High) despite probably classing down to 3A next cycle.

    I’m still taking Middletown in the final. They’ve beaten Wyo something like 100-0 the past two years. Although this Wyomissing team is the best since 2012 and loaded with college-caliber sophomores and juniors. Supposedly 21 of their 22 starters have played together since mite football so if not this year, they will take it in 2020.

    Manheim Township with another solid if not spectacular win. No weaknesses on the team and getting better each weak. They are still only maybe 60-40 to make it out of the district, though. They might catch Harrisburg in the semi-finals now and given late November weather in PA that could get interesting. I would not count Harrisburg out. They are a frenetic team and last night was a clear let down after last week’s controversy.

  374. phillyboy says:

    Rah rah, McDowell only lost by 3 points, got to love those moral victories.

    @D3 Mike– You and Jeff H were discussing hypothetical matchups for last year, interesting topic. Just got to get something off my chest, never got a satisfactory explanation for what the heck happened with Coatesville in last year’s state semifinal. Nothing was said about it — almost reminded me of the Clinton administration’s ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy. Coatesville hammered Harrisburg in the season opener by about 30 points or so. And then more or less hammered everybody up until the semifinal loss to Harrisburg. Was it simply a case of H’burg improving more than C’ville during the season? H’burg played admirably in the state final, no doubt, but overall it was a huge disappointment. Seemed like C’ville ’18 had a legitimate chance to continue what PR ’17 did. Lastly, if they had played a third game, say, the following week, who do you think would have won?

  375. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike- I think Harrisburg would have beaten PR last year had they played like they would have in the old bracket, I also think MT appears to be at least as good if not better than any of the WPIAL 6A teams this year. Based on DWest blowing out East tonight and Townships impressive win over Warwick looks like a potential great game in the Eastern final if it comes to pass, lots of football still to be played but you guys out east should be salivating about that potential match-up.

    Based on the way SC beat Harrisburg tonight I wouldn’t be surprised if they give the WPIAL winner all they can handle, that’s assuming they get by a very solid Erie McDowell team the week before, McDowell lost a close one to Erie Prep tonight 29-26, so looks like McDowell vs SC could be a very competitive game as well.

    Speaking of Middletown I’m a little surprised they got beat by Milton Hershey tonight, maybe this is Wyomissing’s year, could be a repeat of the 2012 championship game against Aliquippa, I think Wyomissing is going to win out and beat Berks Catholic in their final game and enter the playoffs undefeated

  376. Jay says:

    This Downingtown West team may be the best team from Downingtown since Downingtown Consolidated high school won the state title in the mid-90s.

    Or maybe that’s premature. Oh wait, they just scored another TD since I started this post. Defensive I think – I looked away for 30 seconds so I’m not sure lol.

    I guess we’ll have a better idea after they play (and probably beat) Coatesville and then roll through the district playoffs.

    This is a really special team, folks.

  377. Jay says:

    Just arrived at Kottmeyer Stadium for the first of three HUGE games here this month. Up tonight is Downingtown West vs Downingtown East, both teams 6-0 and absolutely dominant on both sides of the ball this year. West’s average margin of victory is approx 43-14; East’s is approx 37-10.

    Both teams have had impressive schedules, much more so for West. They’ve clobbered Garnet Valley and Neshaminy among other impressive wins.

    I would’ve gone to root on my Coatesville squad tonight but East vs West is a cant-miss game especially when they’re both playing at a high level.

    I’m not pulling for either side to win, maybe slightly West, but I’m sitting on the East side, 40 yard line closer to the STEM academy, fourth row up behind the lady with the camera, aisle seat. If anyone is here feel free to say hello.

    Prediction = West 42, East 34

  378. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy

    Thnx man.

    In all seriousness, I really hope they get to play the games as agreed upon two weeks ago. It is really the kids who would benefit the most if played, and loose the most if they don’t.

    Football weather tonight!!!!!

  379. Kevin X says:

    Some D1 6A streaming options for you guys this evening: Souderton/North Penn and the Battle of the Brandywine (DTW/DTE)

  380. Chief Red Raider says:

    @D3Mike: Haven’t been able to watch much of DTE and DTW, I saw a little bit of the DTW/Shanahan game — not sure one could gauge anything from that. Howard looked really sharp, but my guess is that DTE will put some pressure on him. My gut is going with DTE in a close one, but would not be surprised if West lights them up though. The game is on the internet for free.

  381. Kevin X says:

    I just want to clarify and revise an item in my last post. I have no knowledge of any financial arrangements between SCA and the game they played against Hammond. I should have wrote:

    “Maybe because Disney/ESPN/GEICO/Paragon Marketing wrote two nice fat checks out to both the PHAC and SCA??” (with question marks just to emphasize the point of being a possibility, and not fact).

    Moving on……I understand all parties are now to meet on Monday to discuss the matter further. Interesting the sanctions mentioned below would involve all SCA sports for two years, which would include all female sports, which may open up a very nasty can of worms involving Title IX. And Federal law. Do you really want to possibly go down that road?? Wouldn’t be surprised if lawyers are preparing to file lawsuits for breach of contract or for some other legal violation(s). Don’t forget Berwick is involved with as they were set to host the Shik/HR game. I’m sure they have to arrange personal, etc. to host the game.

  382. D3 Mike says:


    Yeah, I think that’s how it will play out in 3A (yet again). Middletown has certainly been carrying our banner of futility out west – but they aren’t charging onto the field alone. District 3 won two state-semifinals over District 7 teams in 2011 but ever since Wyomissing squeezed past Aliquippa in the 2012 AA state final the entire district has done it’s best to crap the bed head-to-head (versus Beaver or any other Black & Gold county). Check out the games since 2012 listed below: 1 Win, 11 Losses. Yikes. And other than the two Manheim Central games most of those weren’t all that close:

    PCC over Lower Dauphin (4A) (2013)
    Central Valley over Bishop McDevitt (3A) (2014)
    Pine Richland over Wilson (4A) (2014)
    PCC over Cumberland Valley (4A) (2015)
    Beaver Falls over Middletown (3A) (2016)
    Harrisburgh over West Allegheny (5A) (2016)
    PCC over Wilson (6A) (2016)
    Quaker Valley over Middletown (3A) (2017)
    Gateway over Manheim Central (5A) (2017)
    Pine Richland over Manheim Township (6A) (2017)
    Aliquippa over Middletown (3A) (2018)
    Penn Hills over Manheim Central (5A) (2018)

    P.S. IMO the timing of the 6A bracket re-alignment is a shame because I really think Harrisburg vs. Pine Richland in 2018, and then this year’s two 6A reps, would have made for two of the better biggest-class games between the districts in awhile.

  383. phillyboy says:

    Would love like heck to see Erie McDowell take out Cathedral Prep tonight, that’s potentially the most intriguing matchup this weekend. Can almost guarantee you the score will be something like 54-21 or 49-3, something along those lines. Every time you get your hopes up, it’s the same old same old.

    Btw, Kevin X, I’m proud of you — nice, cynical rant regarding the Southern Columbia scheduling debacle, had some hang time too.

  384. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – agree with you about the D3 3A final being a great match-up between Middletown and Wyomissing, IMO whoever wins that game is the favorite to get to Hershey and play the WPIAL winner. Will Middletown make the state finals 4 yrs in a row and lose again to a WPIAL team from Beaver County, matching the Buffalo Bills from the early 90’s.

  385. Kevin X says:

    OK, let me see if I’m following this correctly……

    Two and half weeks ago or so, it is announced that Southern Columbia will Play Wyoming Area, and Shikellamy and Holy Reedemer will match-up that same weekend as well. Basically swapping opponents. A move applauded by all!!! Then two days ago, and only nine days before those games, Jim Becker, Principal of Southern Columbia High School, announces that those game will not take place and the original schedule will be honored, due to “possible” sanctions (not specified) being placed on Southern Columbia by the Pennsylvania Heartland Athletic Conference (PHAC). This is the same Jim Becker who is also the president of said PHAC. Why in the world did it take 2 1/2 weeks for this to fall apart?? If Mr. Becker is both the Principal of SCA and the president of the PHAC, better question is why wasn’t this situation nipped in the bud before it even got out of the starting gate?? Also, where are the sanctions against Shikellamy (another PHAC school)?? Mmm, the game was going to be at Wyoming Area, who sold a boatload of advanced tickets for the game, while SCA is giving up a lucrative home game, and probably only getting a few $$$ for gas money (and the PHAC zero). Sounds like a lot of financial shenanigans, PHAC disfunction, and basically amateur hour at its finest.

    Oh, and also, SCA gets to cancel a game against another PHAC team, Bloomsburg, in week 0/1 to appear in a contrived national televised game in South Carolina to tout ESPN’s high school player profiles and promote their upcoming college football season (not to mention to fill air time in a relatively slow sports weekend). So how did that happen without sanctions against SCA?? Maybe because Disney/ESPN/GEICO/Paragon Marketing wrote two nice fat checks out to both the PHAC and SCA.

  386. Jeff H says:

    @NW PA – Agree the game tonight between Prep and McDowell will tell a lot about both teams, but more about McDowell, I think ECP will still be the favorite in 4A even if they lose this game, on the other hand if McDowell wins that would bode well for their chances against State College, but not sure how well they match up with either NA or PCC.

    Speaking of State College their game against Harrisburg tonight will be a good indication of where they stand, I like Harrisburg’s chances coming off their controversial loss last week to CD, expect this to be a 1 score game either way.

    @D3 Mike – South Fayette vs. Knoch is kind of an under the radar game tonight, should be a good match up but I don’t see either team as a serious threat to TJ in 4A. Speaking of TJ they travel to 3A Central Valley tonight in a crossover non section game, these 2 had some great playoff battles in 3A when there were just 4 classes, back in the days when Central Valley had Robert Foster and Jerome Whitehead. TJ smoked them last year 45-6, but that was a young, inexperienced CV team, this game should be a lot closer, but I still like TJ by 2 scores, CV is the biggest threat in the WPIAL to Aliquippa in 3A and were the only team to beat them last year when they upset them in the last game of the regular season.

    Another interesting game tonight is 5A USC vs. 6A Mt Lebanon, they are fierce backyard rivals and were in the same conference for decades until the move to 6 classes, this should be a highly competitive game, I’ve seen both teams and think they are very evenly matched, I’m rooting for Lebo because I have friends in the district, and no one outside of Upper St Clair likes USC, but I have a hunch USC wins by 4, something like 28-24.

  387. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    Two interesting games over here/down here in D1 tonight:

    Souderton (6-0) visits North Penn (5-1) in a SOL game, which will be a nice test for Soudy.

    Kennett (6-0) visits West Chester East (5-1) in a 5A Chesmont game. Same scenario for Kennett, be a nice test for them as well.

  388. mark d says:

    Cougars beware !!!! Valley View better watch out trap game right between Berwick and Dallas.Last year Western Wayne gave Valley View it closest game 20-10.It a program hungry for a signature win Valley View is a little banged up from Berwick. Overall i still think that Valley View speed will be the difference Berwick could not shut down Valley View offence so i really don’t think Western Wayne can Valley View pulls it out put late 35-21

  389. D3 Mike says:

    Need some help from around the state for this week’s picks. I’ll take District 3 but chime in with what you’ve got:

    Manheim Township vs. Warwick – I agree with Jeff that these are probably the (slight) favorites to get to the 6A and 5A finals at this point. That said, it also wouldn’t shock me if neither made in out of the District 3 semi-finals. Lots of good but not overwhelming big school teams in the district this year. (side note: D3 AAA final will also be great but go ahead and put a fork in AAAA now).

    Manheim getting Ivey back last week puts them over the top. He posted almost 300 yards receiving last week and got a PSU offer within 72 hours (he apparently also impressed at their sophomore camp this summer). I just can’t see how Warwick matches up, although they will also score their share of points. Call it 35-21 Manheim.

    Here are some other games we need input on. I tried to grab a good one from each district (and pulled in District 6 because Mid Penn):

    (1) Downingtown W vs Downingtown E
    (2) Valley View vs Western Wayne
    (4) Montoursville vs Danville
    (6) Harrisburg vs State College
    (11) Freedom vs Easton
    (12) Wood vs Ryan

    Plus… Western PA Bonus Games!!!
    (7) South Fayette vs Knoch
    (10) ECP vs McDowell

  390. CoalRgnFtballFan says:

    @ D Pascoe – Rumor has it the sanctions consisted of all district athletic teams being excluded from conference championship consideration. The football team would essentially be kicked out for 1 – 2 yr cycle and have to come up with their own schedule.

  391. KH says:

    @JC I would have to agree with you and @D11EPC especially on the crossover games. I also think the talent isn’t what it was before in the EPC South (Formerly LVC). I do remember State Championship caliber teams loaded with D1 talent to come out of this area. I’ve seen middle of the pack teams from other years have more talent than what I’m seeing out of the top teams now. There is no denying there is quite a difference. I’m a Beca guy from the 90s so I’ve seen a lot over the years. We had a nice round of talent for a while, hopefully it comes back.

  392. Jeff H says:

    @ Foleman – would agree with you that MT looks like the 2nd best team in the state right now, and they have to be considered the favorite to win D3 at this point, but there are a lot of very good teams in D3 this year so that should be a great district playoff with MT, Harrisburg, CD, and Wilson battling it out. I think DT West is the best team in D1, we’ll see the next 3 weeks when they play DEast, WC East and then Coatesville, if DWest does end up playing MT in the semi-finals that looks like it would be a tremendous game.

    MT vs. Warwick this week will tell a lot about Warwick’s chances in 5A, I said on here a few weeks ago I thought they had a good shot to get to Hershey for the state final, because they appear to be the best in D3 and I think they are better than any of the DI teams, if they can hang with MT that would solidify my opinion they are the best 5A team in the eastern part of the bracket.

    @Frank G – good point about SJP’s run, they had some very close games in the playoffs over the years and could have certainly lost to either North Penn in 16 or Coatesville in 17, if they lose either or especially both of those games I don’t think there would be nearly as many people whining about their dominance and the unfair advantages they have.

  393. NW PA says:

    Huge game on the shores of Lake Erie tomorrow night as undefeated Erie McDowell plays Erie Cathedral. It should be a very close game and a good measuring stick for both teams. If Erie Cathedral wins they should be the favorite in 4A and if McDowell wins they will have a good chance of beating State College as well as whoever comes out of the WPIAL.

  394. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Such a disappointment the game between Southern Columbia and Wyoming Area has been cancelled. News reports claim 2500 tickets were sold in just 3 hours. Heartland conference bylaws are to blame as they would have put sanctions on Southern if this game was played. This would have been a great game. I would like to know what the sanctions against Southern would have been?

  395. Buddy says:

    Probably for NP fans only:

    School board rejected all bids. So tonight’s game at Crawford is not the last ( they only have 1 more home game during regular season anyway).

    They will put out for more bids this Dec. Projected start date of construction: June.

    That being the case, no football games at NP next season at all.

    They do have a “universal field” ( mainly used for soccer) , maybe they’ll convert that ( put in temp. stands), for next season.

    Who knows?

  396. JC says:

    @D11EPC: gonna take the bait and defend the EPC North a bit by providing some context. The only programs that are really struggling at “worst in the state” levels are Dieruff, Allen, ES North, and Pleasant Valley. The former two are inner city schools that generally struggle in most sports, and the latter two are programs that have had success in the past that are down in the dumps because of coach upheaval. The other five schools in the division all have solid, if somewhat average, teams.

    Now, forcing so many crossover games is absolutely a bad idea. Teams should be allowed to schedule crossover games if they want, but they should also be allowed to schedule D1, D3, D12 teams if they so choose. I do think this is hurting the top tier of teams in the district, and at least partially explains the lack of recent success.

  397. Racer X says:

    Southern Columbia not allowed to play Wyoming area. Shut down by Heartland Conference, also may incur sanctions for not following the conference by-laws on scheduling, per the Shamokin new item this morning.

  398. mark d says:

    According to the Scranton times the game between SCA and Wyoming area has been canceled, some problem with the heartland conference bi laws which would have penalized SCA if they played the game. The article Was’t real clear what the penalties were?

  399. Kevin X says:

    From good ‘ole Twitter……

    “According to Southern Columbia principal Jim Becker, Southern Columbia will Not be playing Wyoming Area in Week 8. Original schedule will stand”

    So that now opens up the possibility of Southern Columbia playing SJP and Archbishop Wood avoiding a total embarrassment and traveling up the NE Extension to play WA???? 🙂

  400. New2PA says:

    @FrankG – good info. Its interesting. I never really thought about SJP not playing public schools that much. Out here, PCC and the other mainly play public schools. That’s part of the reason for the outcry is public school teams get smoked every year by them. That seems to not necessarily be the case out east. Seems like after North Penn, P-R has played them the most. Crazy.

  401. FrankG says:

    @New2PA The last time SJP lost to a PA public school (other than the ’17 championship) was when they got blown out by North Penn in 2010 (Infante’s first year when the program was in disarray following the firing of the previous coach). The last time a PA public school was on their regular season schedule was 2011 (again North Penn). In ’12 they lost to LaSalle and didn’t make the playoffs. In ’13 they barely beat Frankford in the D12 championship, and had a tough game against Neshaminy in the state semifinal, You know about ’14 (when they also almost lost to Parkland). In ’15 they lost to LaSalle in the championship, In ’16 they had a very tough game against North Penn in the semi-final–same for Coatesville in ’17.

    @Jeff H I agree with you. Lots of things, internal or external, could happen to bring an end to this “SJP cycle”: the rise of one or two ambitious local competitors, jadedness, a decision within the school to place less emphasis on football, … Just think that if Swift had gone to LaSalle–as he was about to do until almost the last minute

  402. D11EPC says:

    D11 big schools seem to be on quite the down cycle the past couple years. D12 is obviously king but I think D1/D3/D7 are quite above us as well now. I’ve seen Easton, Parkland, Freedom, and Nazareth and these teams are a joke compared to the rest of the state and D11 teams of other years. BECA will always have a chance because they drop to 4A in the playoffs but the EPC looks like the best of the worst. I don’t see much hope for years to come, the talent is dried up. Our schedules are fluffed by 2 crossover EPC North games which happen to be the worst 6A/5A teams in the state(we are forced to do this by D11 for seeding) on top of playing in a down EPC South. We are the least battle tested going into States and don’t have the talent to compete anymore with everyone else.

  403. Foleman says:

    kevin X, right now, I would have to say Manheim Township is the 2nd best team in the State, they beat always tough Central Dauphin, although the final score was close, MT dominated the game, and they just handled a top 10 6A team in Wilson who had a lot returning from last year. Wilson’s coach said that this is MT’S best team ever. They still have Warwick to play and the semi’s and final in District 3 could have them play either Central Dauphin and Wilson again plus Harrisburg. I would take the District 3 champ over whoever comes out of District 1. I can’t comment on Pitt Central Catholic or N. Allegheny but posters are saying the WPIAL is down this year.

  404. New2PA says:

    As a P-R fan for the past 6 or 7 years, and knowing a few kids, parents, and coaches, I can say that the vast majority of the people associated with the 14 and 17 teams (particularly 17) wanted to play SJP. The 14 team’s focus was figuring out how to beat PCC and they just went on a magical run that fell 1 drive short in the finals. That set the stage for 17 w.r.t. style of play, offseason program, effort, etc. I’ve had coaches and players tell me that they model many things they do on SJP and how they prepare on what it takes to beat them – not PCC, NA or other local teams. The frustrating part comes from the fact that P-R’s big runs seems to go in cycles, whereas SJP is there every year. 14, then 17, and now I believe they are gearing up for another rematch in 2020. But that frustration is probably minor because P-R kids believe they actually have a chance to win, whereas most teams don’t. When is the last time SJP lost to a PA public school, besides the 17 P-T team?

  405. State Champion says:

    Top 5 6A EAST:


  406. The Joneses says:

    @Kevin X Great points. Also Harrison Jr wasn’t recruited to SJP. He wasn’t in love with LaSalle, wanted to go to Roman. Sr. Pushed LaSalle. After his freshman year, got his wish to leave LaSalle and Prep was there waiting. In the public private debate I think people should be honest and say the really on care about the privates playing PIAA. If MP recruits and get players no one cares bc MP isn’t keeping them from a state chip.

  407. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    North Penn School Board meeting tonight. Stay tuned…….

  408. D3 Mike says:


    re: drilling down on the schedules, apparently I’m the only person with team schedules that also include the game results and recaps? Everyone else seems to have the simplified versions that only list the wins and losses. Add-in how PA Football Forum brains are required to cease functioning upon hearing mention of “Imhotep” or “Malvern” and it’s a recipe for disaster!

    Let me be clear: Imhotep is an awesome program. They play a brutal schedule and have enjoyed great success this past decade……………..
    And the supposedly second-best 6A team in the state should beat ANY 4A team more convincingly than 15-12. The end.

    Similarly, the supposedly second-best team in 6A should not be 21-20 in the third quarter with a school that lost 36-0 to another 6A team. If A>B and B>C then C>A? I just don’t get how that’s anything but a bad win. They didn’t have a warmup game for Northeast? Next, you’ll be telling me it was a trap game for LaSalle. Come on.

    And we’re going to go in circles on Malvern so let’s not bother. I’m going to say “they are 1-4 and lost by a billion to McDonogh and Spalding” and you’re going to say “but they lost by a billion to two great teams… and Imhotep played DeMatha!” so we might as well just drop it and agree that the real lesson here is to just schedule DeMatha, and Bergen, and McDonogh, and Spalding, and get obliterated by them because there is no downside for doing so. You’ll get 100/100 credit from some people just for scheduling the games.

    In summation, we’re talking about LaSalle supposedly being the second-best 6A team in the state. To EARN that distinction, at least in my world, the second-best 6A team in the state needs to win convincingly, not squeeze past three 4A and 5A programs. That’s really what it comes down to. You’re looking at the wins. I’m looking at the classes those teams reside in and how the games played out and I simply expect more from an elite 6A program.

    In answer to your larger question, I don’t know if LaSalle would be the second-best team in District 1, District 3, or District 7 this year, let alone the entire state of PA. Add in State College and the usual suspects in D11, and LaSalle is probably somewhere around #6-#8 in PA. And we won’t get any closer to the truth unless North Penn makes a run, LaSalle plays Prep competitively in round 2, or someone gives Prep a game in the state playoffs.

    In all seriousness, I do appreciate you taking the time to make a thoughtful response.

  409. Jeff H says:

    Just to clarify my prior posts I never said LaSalle was the 2nd best team in the state, clearly they are not and it didn’t take the game on Friday for me to realize that, I just said that in my opinion they had the best chance of upsetting SJP in the playoffs, but based on the game on Friday I’d say they have virtually no chance in the rematch, unless SJP has lots of key guys out due to injury, and even then it would be a stretch to see LaSalle winning.

    SJP beat Pine Richland 38-0 in the semi-finals last year, IMO there is no team in the WPIAL this year, including PCC and NA, that is much better than PR was last year, so from my viewpoint in Pittsburgh SJP blows out the WPIAL champ again, and the guys I know who follow WPIAL football closely agree with me, a buddy of mine was at the NA vs. Mt Lebanon game a couple of weeks ago, and while he was impressed with NA and is good friends of the father of Luke Collella, he feels NA would get beat by 4-5 TD’s by SJP, if they end up playing.

    Cyoball is correct, their elite quarterback puts them on a whole different level than any other team in this state, I certainly hope the state final is competitive,and would love to see any team beat SJP, it would be great for HS football in general if someone beats them, but it’s hard for me to see any team coming within 3 TD’s in the final, I don’t care who emerges from D1/D3, the game might be close for awhile, but SJP wins going away, just like last year.

    @ Craig A Jones – IMO splitting the public and private schools would be a disaster for HS football in this state, the move to 6 classes has already had a negative impact by diluting the playoffs and attendance down at many schools due to loss of natural rivals from the changes in classification, there are not enough private schools for this to be a realistic option, this state is far larger than NJ where all the powerhouse privates are located in a relatively close geographical area. If you split into public/private what do you do with PCC and ECP, who are the only 2 large private schools in the entire western half of the state.

    Let’s see what happens when this tremendous junior class of SJP graduates after next year, I have a hunch they are not going to continue to win the state title every singe year, they will certainly win quite a few, but I would be surprised if they win say 5 or more in a row, time will tell. SJP has not always been this dominant prior to their current 7 yr run, they had down years prior, look at AW as an example, they had a dominant 10yr run and now they are down significantly, they lost to Penn Hills last year, they are not going to win the state title this year, and the outlook is not real great for the next few years. My point is things go in cycles, and history says SJP will not be this dominant every year, look at some other big time private schools with a long record of success and their history in the state playoffs, you referenced Becahi, they have 1 state title, ditto for D3 Bishop McDevitt, both tremendous programs, yet only 2 state titles between them, so I think this whole public vs. private is blown out of proportion and exacerbated when you get a team on a run like SJP.

  410. Buddy says:

    Has anyone ( Kevin?) heard more about North Penn’s new stadium?

    This Fri. is supposed to be the last game there.

    Has the school board approved the increased bid?

  411. Buddy says:


    That about sums it up.


    “Conceded” is used as ” it is a given”, Not “conceited” as in “vanity”.

    @ et al

    I have not been for separating privates & publics. Why? Because schools , like the one I follow, would dominant every year.

    And that would be a drag. But when you can recruit players like Trotter & Harrison, well now it gets absurd.

  412. FrankG says:

    @ Craig A Do you really want the Jersey system? Do you think P-R in ’14 and ’17 or NP in ’16 or Harrisburg last year would have preferred not to play SJP and to play in an all-public final? Why not look at Ohio as a model? And do you want a separate private stream for all six classifications–or is this really just about SJP?

    Clearly private schools have advantages. Public schools also have advantages, though I’m not going to pretend that, mainly because of its location, SJP’s advantages aren’t greater than public schools’? It ‘s just that it’s more complicated than some think.

    From what I hear and read, the quality of hs football in PA has been down in recent years. That’s true of the Lehigh Valley northeastern PA–apparently. True? I also get the sense that the WPIAL is down somewhat, Happy to be corrected. But if the quality in those areas is down, it can hardly be the fault of SJP.

    Finally about the 2-2 record. Note that the two losses were to schools quite different from the Prep: one a large public high school and the other a boarding school attended by kids who come from all over the country essentially to maximize their chances of getting offers from high-profile college programs.

  413. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike, Fair enough, I will give it the ‘ole college try and rebutt your LaSalle contentions….

    1. Second best team in the state?? Maybe, maybe not. Just curious as a side comment/question, who do you guys think is the second best team in PA right now, regardless of classification or PIAA membership??

    2. Second best 6A team?? Again, maybe, maybe not. But I would not disagree or argue with anyone who states that they are. Same question as above then, who is the second best 6A team in the state??

    3. More on specifics: Loved the unnamed “unranked 4A team” mentioned from earlier. This “unranked 4A team” will most likely be playing in another state championship game come December. Thinking that would make 5 appearances in a row?? This “unranked 4A’ team started off the season with LaSalle, and lost their next 2 games to Bergen Catholic and DeMatha Catholic. Care to name me another PA team that isn’t located at 18th and Girard that would fair better against those two teams?? Oh, and exactly how many times has this “unranked 4A” team got “handled” by Harrisburg as you alluded to?? Once that I recall. And scrimmages?? Who knows, who cares.

    4. Malvern Prep. Incredibly down?? Hardly. Down sure. Let’s look at schedules again. MP went toe to toe with a very good McDonogh School team (who are currently 5-0) until MP’s best player went out of the game in the second half with an injury. Then losses to LaSalle and then that pesky “unranked 4A” team. And yes, another loss on Friday to a very strong Archbishop Spalding, who’s only loss this year has been to a semi national power in Our Lady of Good Counsel. And MP’s one win to date was a thrashing of perennial D3 and Berks power Berks Catholic. As things stand now, I’d have no issue with ranking MP 2nd in this dumpster fire that we call the Eastern 5A, only behind Warwick.

    5. Haverford. Yes, they were beat very nicely by Northeast. Which BTW was Haverford’s first game of the year, and NE already had a game under their belt. I think any one of us, me included, who witnessed a week 0/1 game, would concede that they were pretty sloppy. And NE is not exactly a member of the PPL’s Little Sister’s of the Poor division. A solid team in their own right. And yes, The LS/Haverford game was close, but good teams find a way to close out the deal, which they did, going away.

    Bottom line, please look at, and drill down on the schedules and competition of these teams. My final question, which team has had a harder first half of the season schedule than SJP, LaSalle, MP and Imhotep, er, umm, sorry, that “unranked 4A’ team??

  414. Craig A Jones says:

    Even if I agree with your weak pt about communities that’s not the pt of my argument. They’re a private school who doesn’t have to play by the same rules. Again I say, “how good are they compared to other schools like themselves?; 2-2 is what I see. Then they’ll enter a tournament with schools who have restrictions on them and will hammer them with their all-star team. So when I say who cares it means their championship is meaningless to any body who knows anything about the current structure of the PIAA. New Jersey does it right, they separate the privates and the public schools.

  415. FrankG says:

    @ Craig A. Obviously a lot of people care about SJP, LaSalle, and other private schools. You say such schools have “no loyalty to any community” but don’t recognize there are different kinds of communities. There is an SJP community and there is a vaguer but still real PCL community. In at least part of the state the old kind of communities that once existed don’t any more or they’re significantly weaker. I can remember seeing the Blakely Bears when I visited Scranton as a kid over 50 years ago. Does anything like that exist anymore? It’s great that Easton has the support it does, but that seems an anomaly. If SJP drops its football program, I can’t imagine high schools in SE PA are going to get a lot more community support than they now get.

  416. Cyoball1 says:

    @Buddy its not conceded its my personal opinion. He is going to Ohio State for a reason. Maybe I misspoke about stating that its not even close but I would stand by the fact that he’s the best pro style QB in the Junior class.
    Also, I am not a SJP guy I am actually a Roman guy.
    Red Raider, do you think anyone else in the state of PA can keep it within 4-5 scores of IMG? I would say no.
    The Jonses I will follow up on RCHS’s post. Not sure who he is but he’s on to something. I agree with them, Roman is going to get Football talent in the building. Its not if , its happening now.
    Theres plenty of talent in Philadelphia and surrounding areas. And last, yes prep and Imhotep was well as Lasalle are schools to compete with for getting talent. Roman doesn’t need the great Albie to recruit and bring in talent. They have the right guy for the job in there now and the program is turning around right now.

  417. Craig A Jones says:

    Who cares about SJP or LaSalle or any of these private schools. It’s like Bethlehem Catholic wrestling, all-star teams with no loyalty to any community. BC beats up on the publics and thumps their chests, but when they get hammered by another private they don’t even report it locally. So I see SJP is 2-2, so how good are they really in their own class. But they’ll win the state title again and who cares really. Here in Easton we are one of the winningest programs in the State and the Country. We did it with local grown kid’s. #2 in wins in Pa all-time and #8 I think in the USA. I’d rather go see an Easton or P’Burg game any day of the week.

  418. D3 Mike says:

    Whoa, there! Let me be clear: I never said St. Joe’s Prep will lose. I’m suggesting that there is a happy medium between recognizing that they are the best team, by far, and claiming that they could mercy rule everyone in the state with 10 players. Pepperidge Farm remembers: last year many expressed sentiments similar to what I’m reading now. You can still look up the comments in the 2018 forum (I can wait). Plenty of blowout predictions and commentary along the lines of the Coatesville/Harrisburg winner getting run out of Hersheypark Stadium.

    That Prep team was also ranked in the top 10-15 in the country, no? That team was also supposed to demolish everyone in PA, no?… and that team, as I already stated, was winning by all of ONE SCORE in the 4th quarter of the 6A title game despite four Harrisburg turnovers. Considering those facts, it’s not this incredible long shot for another team to tighten up on the turnovers (and penalties) and actually give Prep a game this year, too.

    To reiterate: Prep should win every remaining game quite comfortably. I love Prep. I have a poster of their coaching staff taped above my bed. My greatest regret in life was not becoming a Prep alum. But the LaSalle game doesn’t prove that Prep is invincible in PA since LaSalle is not the 2nd best team in PA. Those were the two points I was making. If people would take a break from their abject supplication at the altar of the PCL for just a moment they would recognize that:

    1) LaSalle was trailing 12-3 in the 3rd quarter and ended up squeaking by an Imhotep team that

    2) Harrisburg handles every time they play or scrimmage (which is what an elite 6A team is supposed to do against even a great 4A program).

    Add in the Haverford clunker, Malvern being incredibly down compared to last year, and the fact that LaSalle has been OUTSCORED IN THE FIRST HALF THIS YEAR (seriously, lol) and we can all stop with “it’s all over, Prep just smoked the second best team in 6A”. Because the data suggests that Prep hasn’t seen the second best team in 6A yet.

    Feel free to provide actual stats and/or evidence (as I did) in your counter argument, lest I mock your anecdotal rebuttal for being nothing but an onanistic opinion-piece.

  419. Chief Red Raider says:

    @CYO: I think your post supports my view — SJP lost to IMG. And to say there is a best JR QB (not even close) out of the thousands of HS QB’s seems ridiculous to me.


    @D3 Mike: I think you’re making sense. On any given day . . .

  420. Buddy says:


    That’s conceded. By everyone. Anything else to add, or just want to gloat about SLP’s recruiting prowess?

  421. Jeff H. says:

    @ D3 Mike – I agree with Cyoball1, I am convinced no WPIAL team will come within 3 Td’s of SJP in the state semi-finals, and I frankly would not be surprised if it’s a mercy rule game. And that’s assuming the WPIAL winner beats State College in the quarterfinals, which is no sure thing this year. WPIAL 6A is down and SJP is going to dominate the winner if they get by a very good State College team, just like they did last year when they beat defending champ PR 38-0.

    As I and many others have stated since the start of the season everyone else in 6A is playing for district titles and the state runner-up trophy, the only bigger favorite in any class in PA is Southern Columbia in 2A.

    Yes, upsets happen, but if anyone beats this SJP team in the playoffs I would argue it would be the biggest upset in the history of PIAA football playoffs, there’s a better chance they mercy rule every team they play than get beat, including the WPIAL and D1/D3 winner.

    There are some very good teams in 6A this year, but none are even in the same league with this SJP team, it would be a very interesting state playoff without SJP because there’s probably at least a half dozen teams that would have a realistic shot at the title with no SJP in the field.

  422. The Joneses says:

    @phillyboy I didn’t read your post before my last. That right there will shake up the landscape and then you find out if Infante can do it (draw talent) without all the bells and whistles of prep.This could be really good.

  423. The Joneses says:

    RCHS3254 I am with 4th and long on that one. So Roman, a traditional basketball power it going to out recruit Albee at NG, who contends with LaSalle & Prep for talent. In addtition to that I am hearing the new staff at Lansdale Catholic is going to be pulling on those same kids. Only put so many talent to go around.

  424. 4th and Long says:

    RCHS3254, what makes you think RC is stepping up in recruiting? Is Albee Crosby leaving NG or something? If I was to make a bet on the team that’s rising, I’d go with PJP. Losing a lot of talent next year but they’ve got a good staff, it’s a beautiful campus and they’re putting a lot into the football facilities. Not a PCL school, but I can see them moving to 4A and becoming a power.

  425. The Joneses says:

    I don’t know about Prep winning the entire thing with 10 men on the field. Some coaches are great with X’s and O’s and just don’t have the horses to run with SJP. The LaSalle sideline was dejected. After seeing so many matchups between these schools it looks like LaSalle plays to beat SJP and SJP plays to win stats, which always keeps LaSalle at a disadvantage. Since this game could have been a shut out is SJP didn’t put the second unit in, I don’t expect much difference in the playoff rematch. Previously LaSalle’s first unit was able to at least score. On another note, LaSalle needs to play that speedy small running back #1. He’s a play maker. I’ve seen him in 2 games (NP & SJP) and both he had a big play for a TD with pure speed. He can be the lightening to Browns Thunder.

  426. Cyoball1 says:

    Red Raider… who in the state will have a more “High powered offense” than IMG academy? I know it’s a tough pill to swallow 5 weeks into the season but Prep will win 6A going away.
    McCord is the best QB in the country in the junior class and honestly, it’s not even close.

  427. phillyboy says:

    @ Roman Catholic guy– So you say Roman Catholic is going to ascend out of the cellar, so tired of being a basement dweller. What prompted you to say such a thing out of the blue? Is there a specific reason or just some wild hunch that comes from you? Well, for all y’all out in the hinterlands of PA, no worries, phillyboy is here to save the day (with concomitant cape and jump suit). This is what’s going down, this is my theory: A former Prep head coach recently resigned at the height of his professional career. All kinds of options were opening up. Meanwhile, the thought of seizing the opportunity to excel at the next level was gnawing at him — had to scratch that itch. From the get-go there were regrets or misgivings. Between the chaos at Temple and the realization that he’s now just a low level coach at a wannabe program, he had an epiphany. Started to reason to himself, ‘what have I done, here I am starving while could have been feasting just a few blocks away. Maybe they’ll take me back, as a prodigal son.’ Problem is, that spot is now taken. What to do? Well, what other huge Philadelphia Catholic high school exists that could be Infante’s canvass, huh? See where this is going, yes, Gabe Infante will be RC’s next head coach, you heard it here first. Cahillite Nation, get your popcorn ready, going to be interesting.

  428. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    You’re kidding, right???

  429. D3 Mike says:

    St Joe’s Prep finished 11th in the country last year but still only led 27-20 in the 4th quarter of the state title game vs. a very flawed, very green Harrisburg program that turned the ball over 4 times. I still think the WPIAL or D1/D3 winner could give Prep a football game this year, too.

    Maybe, just maybe, St. Joe’s overwhelming dominance last night wasn’t just about St. Joe’s? Maybe it’s also that LaSalle was unbelievably overrated coming into the game, what with all this chatter about how they were the second best team in the state – which was a point I threw out there before the game that no one seemed inclined to discuss.

    LaSalle wrecked North Penn. Otherwise, they beat an unranked 4A team by 3 points, a 1-win Malvern team by 11 (a Malvern team who has gotten rolled multiple times already btw) and were ahead all of 21-20 late in the third quarter last week against a Haverford squad that was mercy ruled 36-0 by Northeast. Do those 3 scores seriously sound like results produced by the second best team in the state? The writing was on the wall for anyone who had been paying attention. LaSalle is just another good 6A program until proven otherwise.

  430. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Uncle T: No doubt SJP is the favorite, but I watched them against LS and parts of their other games and IMHO they are not invincible. I think a team with a high-powered offense can beat them — like PR a few years ago. Not sure how good the other top teams are, many are high on DTW, Manheim, and a few others, but my guess is things won’t end up the way the prognosticators think they will. At this point I’m not going to predict a long run for C’ville, but I liked Pete DiGiovanni’s article about not counting them out — and they went out a beat Rustin with a freshman QB (which many thought might be a close game). If Ricky gets healthy and the rookies keep getting better, I think they can be pretty scary. By the way, where did the Ruttman? kid come from? Was he on the roster last year? He’s looked pretty impressive.

  431. Uncle T says:

    @Chief: at least they’re on the “western” side of the bracket so we’ll get some good games up until the final. I get that it can be annoying to constantly hear how good they are, but unless they get a wave of injuries, SJP will be 4-6 score favorites in every game they play for the rest of the season. I’d love to see somebody give them a game like Coatesville did 2 years ago before Pine-Richland beat Prep, but wouldn’t bet on anything being close this year (or next with the 3 studs returning). I think the Catholic League final will be just a bit more competitive, but the talent gap is just startling.

    Side note: the District 1 field this year looks like it will be the best of the 6A era. I expect the top 16 now will be the same ones that qualify, and there’s going to be some really good matchups in the 1st round between the 5-12 seeds. The 3 Pioneer League teams and Truman are the weakest in my opinion, but every other team has got at least some game. The current 16 seed has 3 division 1 commits.

  432. Chief Red Raider says:

    I know it’s still September, but I heard the PIAA is considering cancelling the rest of the season for all 6A teams and having a championship ceremony next week in Philly because it is absolutely impossible for SJP to lose to a team from PA. Moreover, next year, they are thinking about requiring all non-boundary schools to play 8-man football, but the public schools can continue to use 11 (even in head to head contests). Crazy huh?!

  433. RCHS3254 says:

    say what you want, laugh now, but the talent in the city will soon start to show up at Roman. It’s not going to happen overnight but there is a change coming in the catholic league.

  434. phillyboy says:

    @Uncle T — Prep could have won with 10 men on the field, lol. Funny but crazy as it sounds, maybe true. They could win the PIAA state tournament with 10 men the whole way through. Or they could spot each team 35 points and still win comfortably. Alternately, their 3 best players, McCord, Trotter, and Harrison (the triplets, like on the Dallas Cowboys) could sit and they’d still cream every team going away. In fact you could allow any opponent to sit any 5 players of their choosing and Prep would still dominate.

  435. Jay says:

    Thanks for the recommendations. I think Widener and Doylestown are both about an hour from me so maybe I will check out one of the two. Nice to change it up from time to time. And another reason why November/December playoff football is awesome, so many great options if you’re willing to travel.

  436. Kevin X says:

    @ Uncle T


    The most competitive part of that game was the halftime rugbys 7 exhibition. At least LaSalle saved some face in that tilt. I bailed at halftime. Post game (ok halftime) drinks were a calling. Also, they really needed to hold that game at Villanova or at the likes of a BASD stadium. The Wissahickon facility was overwhelmed.

  437. Uncle T says:

    SJP/LaSalle. My goodness. Prep would win this with 10 men on the field. Gonna be more of the same next year too.

  438. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    No “traditional” television coverage that I am aware of. The third link I had in my previous post, is from the Bob Long Sports YouTube channel. It just may not be available until shortly before kickoff. If you have a smart TV or Roku, or similar device, you can download the YouTube app and watch on your television like a traditional broadcast station’s coverage.

    Yes, I realize the NP/CBW game is the 11th, that is when Jay was looking for a good game to attend. There is another one, I’m guessing in or near his backyard that night, DTW is at WC East.

    Soudy might hold their own Friday against NP. I was at the Soudy/CBE game last night, and they have a nice tandem running attack with Wakefield and Guthre. But they also had a real bad case of fumblitis in the first half.

    Funny you mentioned PCN’s Game of the Week. The other game that I mentioned for 10/11, Wood @ SJP, is PCN’s Game of the Week that weekend.

  439. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @D3 Mike Southern’s coach Roth pulled the starters out at half time leaving the 2nd and 3rd team to fend for themselves and did a good job. The first could have scored 100 points if played all game. Look up the box score! On the down side South Williamsport only dressed maybe 25 players I give those kids credit they played hard and did not give up my hats off to them they are a good team.

  440. Buddy says:


    That NP/CB West tilt is 2 weeks away. Souderton ( also undefeated) plays at NP this Friday.

    I don’t think that will be much of a game. But the CB West match just might be.

    So the LS/SJP game I can get on youtube? Any TV coverage? One would think it be the PCN game of the week.

  441. Kevin X says:

    Sorry, my last post was meant for @ Jay, but I suppose open to anyone who is looking for a game and destination on 10/11 🙂

    Also @ Jay, I believe that Battle of the Brandywine has been sold out a few times in the recent past, either in advance, or at the gate. If you are truly interested in attending that game Friday, I’d recommend trying to secure your tix in advance. If not, I think the game with be streamed on 3CTV/

  442. Kevin X says:

    If you feel like road tripping up to the other D-Town, as in Doylestown, you can catch some SOL action with North Penn (5-1) at CB West (6-0).

    Or head down to Widener for Wood @ SJP

  443. D3 Mike says:

    Jay, not sure how far you’re willing to travel but FWIW there’s really nothing of note in Berks or Lancaster that night. Maybe elsewhere in D1 or even D11.

    After now having seen Manheim Township, Harrisburg, and Coatesville live, it would not surprise me to see MT facing St. Joe’s Prep in Hershey come December. MT’s top wideout finished with the most receiving yards in D3 history last night – and it was his first game of the season. He’s a 15-year old sophomore with offers from Virginia Tech and West Virginia. 6’1″ and runs a 4.3. I’m sure you’ll be hearing more about him in the years ahead. MT also has two other receivers who are more experienced, taller, and almost as fast as Ivey. QB has a gun. Just a solid all-around team with a scary spread offense. I’d still put them a smidge below Harrisburg based on what I’ve seen of Harrisburg’s defense but MT could definitely end up the #2 team in 6A by the time it’s all said and done. Wilson played them pretty tough and the atmosphere last night was phenomenal – Wilson just doesn’t have the secondary to match up with the big boys in 6A this year.

    What happened up north last night? Parkland-Nazareth looked like a good one while North Schuylkill-Jim Thorpe fell short of last year’s versions. And I was really surprised to see Wyoming Area gave up 30?

    Also of note: it appears that someone FINALLY solved the Southern Columbia defense. Wait until that game film gets around the coaching ranks – is this the beginning of the end for SCA?

  444. David Mika says:

    Kevin X…We will have a article of this game…

  445. Kevin X says:

    For those of you who may be interested in streaming the SJP/LaSalle game tonight, some links, basically all of the same stream, just different ways to access:

  446. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy

    Don’t expect an on campus football stadium for Temple U anytime in the near future, or for that matter, distant future.

    Why SJP have their home games at Widener is a mystery to me. They must be getting an unbelievable sweet deal from the University. I don’t imagine a big SJP alumni contingent based in the greater Chester area.

  447. Jay says:

    Ortega didn’t play and Coatesville won handily. Makes me feel a bit more confident going into October, though they’ll need to bring their A games for Downingtowns East and West, who by halftime had collectively outscored their opponents by a combined score of 84-7 tonight.

    I’m looking forward to next week’s East vs West match. Hopefully tickets don’t sell out during the week like they did a few years back when both teams were 9-0 going into week 10. (Was that more than a few years? I can’t even remember if that was before or after the years with Emmett Hunt at Coatesville QB – good times except for in Hershey, oof.

    Definitely got my games planned out for 10/4, 10/18, and 10/25 and then obviously November, but I might travel a bit on 10/11 to watch a game outside of the Ches-Mont. Any recommendations?

  448. Jeff H. says:

    Looks like the talk of PCC’s demise was a bit premature, as their lines dominated PR in a 29-7 win, and NA blew out Seneca Valley, at this point it appears PCC and NA are the top 2 teams in the WPIAL. Both of them should cruise the next 3 weeks until the season finale between NA and PR will determine seeding for the playoffs.

    In 5A still appears to be a 3 team race between Penn Trafford, Peters Township and Gateway, all won easily tonight, I think Peters will go undefeated in the regular season and be the #1 seed with Penn Trafford #2, but don’t count out Gateway come playoff time.

  449. Chief Red Raider says:

    Final: Coatesville 36, Rustin 7, Ortega did not play.

  450. D3 Mike says:

    Halftime update from a packed house in West Lawn. D3 game of the week has lived up to its billing. Manheim Township 21, Wilson 14. So far it’s been pretty much as expected: MT wideouts are just too fast, too tall, too athletic. Wilson doing their best to hold their own at home, also as expected. Really surprised Wilson hasn’t tried to run the ball a bit more just to give their overmatched secondary a breather. MT’s Anthony Ivey with 6 catches, 280 yards and 2 TDs. Per the Reading Eagle sportswriter, that’s a Lancaster Lebanon League record for a game, let alone a half…

  451. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    Up in D2 another battle of 5 and Oh’s, Berwick visits Valley View.

    Down her in D1, a now curious game with Coatesville traveling over to WC Rustin. 5-0 CB West heads up to Perkasie to take on a one win Pennridge team, but PR has had a pretty tough schedule to date. Tomorrow we’ll see if PJPII can get over the hump and finally take down visiting Pottsgrove. I’m heading out the door right now for CB East visiting another 5-0 team, Souderton. Think Soudy has had pretty soft schedule so far, so this game could be a big test before next week’s game against local rival North Penn.

    Another perfect weather night…………

  452. D2 Fan says:

    @D3 Mike

    Lot of good games on the ledger, this weekend up north.

    District 2 6A: Dallas vs. Wilkes-Barre Area is the big 6A game up north. Wilkes-Barre Area has impressed me a lot. The merger seems to have worked. A tough challenge for them, as Dallas is one of the great teams in 4A. The top 3 in 4A (Dallas, VV, Berwick) are all undefeated. Will talk about that game, below.

    District 2 5A: Wyoming Valley West vs. Wallenpaupack. This is a crucial game in the District 2-11 5A Subregion, as this is a de-facto championship game (or preview). If you are unaware with the 2-11 5A Subregional, I’ll give a lay of the land. Top four in the power ratings, of the seven teams in region make the playoffs. If both ‘Paupack & WVW make the playoff, they play each other in Week 11 for the District 2 title, then the District 11 winner faces them. If one makes the Top 4, that District 2 team becomes district champion, and would have to play the District 11 teams, regardless of seed. If by some miracle neither District 2 school makes it, the two 5A schools play each other. This is the biggest game for either team, all season, in my opinion. Both teams are under .500, one with a new coach (WVW), one with a young squad (Paupack), so expect this one to be intriguing.

    District 2 4A: Berwick vs. Valley View. This is the game of the week, for NEPA. Valley View should get through this one without a problem, but with both being 4-0, this can determine who gets the #1 seed in Class 4A.

    District 4 3A: Wyoming Area vs. Lake-Lehman looks like a good matchup, but Western Wayne has been the story of the small school levels. 5-0 on the season, so far. The road through 3A may have to head through Lake Ariel, if Wyoming Area stumbles against Dunmore & Southern Columbia.

    District 4 2A/1A: I have 2.

    1. Mid Valley/Lackawanna Trail. A must-win game for Trail, especially being that they are on the outside looking in for Class 1A. As for Mid Valley, a win here would be huge. Beating Dunmore & Trail in the same season, for a school like Mid Valley would be huge for them.

    2. New Church/Riverside: I don’t know too much about ANC, but I feel like they’ll give Riverside a good challenge. Hope the Riverside crew treats them to Revello’s, Arcaro & Genell’s, or Cafe Rinaldi.

    District 11

    1. Nazareth/Parkland: Nazareth is the surprise of the year in District 11. Parkland is a surprising 3-2. Important game for them, in the EPC South.

    2. ES South/Northampton: The winner of that game likely takes the EPC North. Should be a very competitive game.

    3. North Schuylkill/Jim Thorpe: Major implications in D-11 3A. May call this a coin flip. I feel NS is better, anyway.

    I may be missing some, but these are the big games up north. I hope we can have more District 2 talk in here, more often.

  453. Jeff H. says:

    @New2PA & PCCPride- winner of the regular season game between these teams has won the last 6 WPIAL titles, and while I don’t count out NA I think that trend has a very good chance to continue this year. I like PR in this game because I think they have a more balanced team, although the big test will be how PR’s OL holds up against the PCC front. I was surprised how bad PCC beat BP last week, Bethel has a decent team and I thought that game was going to be pretty close, but PCC defense dominated, particularly the D line.

    MT vs. Wilson is a huge game in D3, shocked how easily MT handled Cocalico last week, I realize their RB and QB got hurt but that score was an eyeopener, surprised the D3 guys aren’t talking more about this game because I think it’s one of the best in the state tonight, hard to pick against Wilson at home but MT is rolling, should be a great game.

    @Buddy -agree with you LaSalle has the best chance of any team in the state to upset SJP, won’t happen tomorrow night, but they have a punchers chance in the rematch, especially if the weather is a factor, don’t see anyone else in the state staying within 3 scores of SJP in the playoffs.

  454. phillyboy says:

    Foleman, that’s what I never understood about the Prep, with all the multimillionaire alumni, they could never cobble together a few mil for a home field. Don’t make no sense — they’re the Mac Daddy of the PCL, right? They’re basically Don Bosco South. A few decades ago could have bought up a bunch of real estate around the campus for a song. Gentrification is pretty much all cannons ablaze at this point, so much for getting a bargain. Once Temple gets their on-campus stadium built, would be perfect. Sounds like Temple is trying to be community friendly, unlike the greedy professional football team down in South Philly.

  455. PCC Pride of says:

    @New2PA: When Central was tested by Seneca and NA both games were with in a few points of a win or loss. There were good games.

    As for PCC offensive the last couple of weeks, they played BP and Hempfield. They were ok games but not really a challenge for Central. They should have never gave up the points they did to Hempfield.

    PR will be the true test of the 6A for Central. I see Central D-Line giving PR a good run for the first 2 maybe 3 qtrs., then all down hill because they are playing both ways. Same with Central’s O-Line.

    After PR, Mt. Lebo, and they way they have been they could possible beat PCC as well. They look like a promising team.

    Hope the best for both team and that all players are healthy afterwards!

  456. Mike Smoll says:

    @Kevin & Buddy

    Hopefully North Penn won’t rebuild the field twice like Quakertown did a number of years ago, first they ripped it up put in an all new sod field, had some bad weather it got all ripped up, next year (possibly 2) they ripped that out and put in the turf field, nothing like doing the same job twice. Do it one, do it right and get it over with.

  457. D3 Mike says:

    So far I’ve heard PCC-Pine Richland, Prep-LaSalle, and Wilson-Manheim Township. It’s a big weekend in 6A.

    I’ll take Pine Richland, Prep, and Manheim Township, although I think MT will see a close game. Wilson gets their best coverage guy back tonight after missing the first month of the season. Interested to see if he helps them match MT’s team speed.

    I haven’t bought into the LaSalle-as-second-best team narrative yet but I’m hoping I’m wrong and they can deliver a competitive game. They were in 1-score games late vs. Imhotep, Malvern, and Haverford and St. Joe’s is a big step up from those teams. We’ll see.

    What’s going on in D1, D2, D11 tonight? Any good matchups from the lower classes?

  458. New2PA says:

    PCC Pride: I agree with most of what you said, but I wouldn’t count out a WPIAL Championship yet. I think the league is a little down this year and if PCC can beat P-R tonight, they are right back in the thick of things. If they lose though, I think they could potentially fold up camp and go home.

    As you mentioned, playing those kids both ways is crazy. But if you are correct and the classes coming up aren’t very good, they may have no other choice.

    If P-R’s OL can give Spencer time I think that their WR’s could have a big day. PCC’s DB’s have been decimated by graduation, transfer, and injury. I think P-R has a huge advantage there, but it depends on the OL. PCC’s offense has been better the last couple weeks, but tonight will be the real test. Coach K’s defense has been lights out and they really seem to mix things up with different people running on and off the field depending on situation. Real test for PCC.

  459. Buddy says:


    The parking lot is rather far from the field, a monorail would be nice.

  460. Foleman says:

    Coach D, New Hope is a good school academically and the football team has recorded a nice record the last few years, plus they are well coached, however, playing the Jenkintown’s, Bristol’s and Morrisville’s of the world will definitely help a program’s resume. The SOL will help. Take the emotion out of it. You listed not only some of the top football programs in the area….and the US, but also a few of the top academic schools in the US. Which schools on the list would you want your son to attend? No school owns players, parents decide on where they send their kids. And they still have to pay the local property tax whether a kid attends the local Public School or not. If an employer came to you and said “We want you to work for us and we will give you a 50% raise” what would you say? I went to grade school with a few kids that graduated from The Prep, all of them have million dollar bank accounts. No program wants to lose great players, I think the new transfer rules will help the Public schools, it seems like Wood, Berks Catholic and McDevitt are down and the new success multiplier will move up the Erie Cathedral Preps to 5A where they belong.

  461. Kevin X says:

    Hey Buddy, yes, I was at the LaSalle game (if you want to call that a game). My biggest impression was the portable lights that they had to set up due to one one of the light towers biting the dust over the summer during a storm. What I am understanding, not only do they want to put turf in, is to redo the track, redo the stands (whatever that entails), new concession area, new restrooms, new ticket booth, new storage facility and a new “team room” near the stadium (not a full blown locker room). Their consultant(s) estimated all of those goodies would cost around 6 mil, so that is what they expected the bids to come in around. Yeah right. The lowest was 7.7 mil, so they are now in a quandary over their next move. A meeting the other night had people wanting central air conditioning for three district schools (evidently two kids have doctors notes indicating that they require climate controls conditions) and someone else brought up the need for an inclusion of a “sensory room” for kids with autism also be built at the stadium (since the Linc now has one, North Penn should have one too), and the beat goes on. I expect a request for a Disney World like monorail system connecting the far reaches of the parking areas with direct access to the stadium to be the next request. A School Board meeting is scheduled for this Tuesday the 1st, so we’ll see what the next move might be……..stay tuned as the say.

    I think the Easton Stadium/Easton School district is dealing with a similar issue, the underestimating of the costs of a stadium renovation.

  462. PCC Pride of the Past says:

    Well, 5 weeks left the what started off as a promising season to the WPIAL Championship is now looking like we hope to get to the second round or the play-offs. Midseason grading: Offense: C (would have been a B but we do not have a great QB and the O-line is beat from playing both sides of the ball. Running Backs get a solid A). Defense: B (Holding teams for at least 3 qtrs. But once again most are playing both sides of the ball). Special Teams: B+ (They have a few returns brought back deep into great field position. The kicker, well he gets an A+! Has not missed one and has a 54 yarder!) Coaching: F and big fat F. Not utilizing their strength with the players they have. Play calling is horrible. It is almost like playing Tecmo Bowl with only having the same 8 passing and running plays.
    In the end, coaching needs to be changed, all of them. Not one of them needs to be left behind. They need new ideas, plays, and the willingness to be committed to the team as a whole.
    Enjoy the opportunity to win now, with the next class coming up, there is not much hope making a run deep into any playoffs for the next 2 to 3 years.

  463. Coach D says:


    New hope 12-2, 9-2, 9-2, 9-3, 1 District Championship and 3 League Championships, 3 All-State players in the last 5 years. Teams they lost to: Egan, Delaware Charter, GA, Delco Christian, West Catholic, PJP, ANC. All schools they have lost to are Open Enrollment schools who can recruit. Yes even Delco Christian and PJP.

    New Hope Area wealth doesn’t mean anything. Those kids work really hard and anytime a really good Player comes along in New Hope you will have a private school there in his ear. Over the last 8 years, New Hope has lost at least a dozen to the private schools. Lasalle, Wood, Hun School and Peddie School in NJ. St. Joe’s Prep attempted to recruit two players last season who subsequently went to Hun. Even with all the success over the last few years, Could you imagine how much of an impact the kids who decided to attend private would have on the New Hope program over the years if they stayed in house. Some of them would much rather sit on the bench for 2-3 years at a bigger program then play right away at New Hope. Hopefully with New Hope joining the SOL it will entice some of these players to stay in house.

  464. Buddy says:


    I was at a game early season and someone said they doubt it will be done by football NEXT season.

    Sounds like they won’t make 2020 graduation.

    My friends daughter works at NP, said they had 2 earlier bids of 4 million & 16 million! Don’t understand the disparity.

    Unless they’re not comparing apples to apples. Heard they allotted 6 million and the latest bid was 7 1/2 million.

    Having not built any stadiums myself, the 4 million sounds awful low ( actually, so does the 6 million allotment).

    Not sure what they’ll do. Don’t know if you ever been to Crawford, but something has to be done!

    Like I mentioned before, last 2 years they were #1 seed and never played a home game. If someone pisses on the field

    it is unplayable!

  465. The Joneses says:

    @4th and long. Very very true. Public’s need all the help it can get. (speaking as a product of south Philly public schools). The public schools will never be able to match what a private school can offer a HS student athlete because they will always lack the main resource (people) willing to put the work in, or financial investment in making the improvements. If the PIAA changed the rules to say keep the NJ kids out, they would simply find host families and live with them, which is allowed. Basically they would find away. As Philly boy said earlier, you need freedom.

    It seems like SJP had this advantage (pulling kids from other areas-NJ in particular) since it existed. However, they weren’t dominant until 2013 per PIAA site here I am guessing there was a coaching change or a philosophy change on recruiting that started their dominance.

  466. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    I believe you did hear correctly. Just saw some on-line articles stating that regarding the over budget bids. Except there was no further info if the project was going forward as planned as I heard the other day, put out for re-bids, re-evaluted, etc. Think there is a school board meeting next week that I’m assuming it will be discussed further. Plan was (and I suppose still is) to have the stadium ready for the 2020 graduation ceremony. So yeah, I may have jumped the gun with that post, my apologies.

  467. 4th and Long says:

    Joneses, my point is the non-boundary schools not only make themselves better by recruiting, they also weaken the publics. Public schools ought to get an enrollment credit (reduction) for how many private schools are in the area. That would help out the Philadelphia publics.

    Mixing boundary and non-boundary schools in today’s environment doesn’t work if you want competitive balance.

  468. 4th and Long says:

    Maybe my point is being lost. D3Mike, yes, money helps, however, the best thing money does is attract athletes from public schools if they’re a private, or keep them home if you’re a public. You’re also conflating public and private’s wealth. The successful public programs in Pennsylvania tend to be smaller programs from relatively isolated (read less private school poaching of athletes) areas and seem to cover the economic spectrum. The larger divisions are dominated by private and charter schools from large urban areas (SJP, Wood, PCC, ECP, Imhotep, etc.) that can choose from a lot of athletes. I’m not gonna hold myself out to be an expert on PA HS football, but I know those schools are disproportionately well represented with state titles and Power 5 athletes. Mainly it’s about demographics, with money being peripheral. HS size being equal, you can have upper middle class suburban kids, I’ll take the blue collar Polynesian kids as long as they’re staying to play at the local HS. Income might be a factor, but there’s a lot more to the equation and it would be a lousy way to divide schools absent digging deeper into demographics (lots of immigrants probably hurts… a lot), how many private schools are in the area, etc. and that’s a undertaking beyond the scope of an HS athletic organization like the PIAA.

  469. Mike A says:

    Penn State’s Beaver Stadium to host high school football game between State High, Cumberland Valley

  470. D3 Mike says:

    Can’t tell if you guys are being serious about the income/wealth thing or not?

    For a D3 perspective, Harrisburg was mentioned. They have had recent success but have won only 3 district titles and 0 state titles in program history. Cumberland Valley, Central Dauphin, and Bishop McDevitt are nearby competitors – they all have median family incomes triple that of Harrisburg, own 30 district titles between them, and have each won a state title. Wilson has the most district wins after CV in the big school class and is one of the wealthiest districts in central PA. In 5A, Manheim Township has a football booster club that makes small colleges blush and again, is one of the wealthiest districts in central PA. They have 18 district titles and 3 state title appearances. 4A has been owned by Berks Catholic since it was formed in 2010, so there’s no need to go into household income there. Wyomissing (7) and Lancaster Catholic (6) have the most district wins among current 3A schools, have each won state titles this decade, and are both incredibly wealthy schools.

    If you want to stay in SE PA, check out where Central Bucks and Downingtown rank on this list of school district household incomes (hint: you’re going to have to go thru most of the slideshow, past the $100,000 average household income) and then compare the state title appearances for those two schools compared to what Coatesville has, despite all the noise, actually done.

    Southern Columbia, Pine Richland, Thomas Jefferson, Parkland, ECP, etc… to contend anything but the obvious on this issue is odd. Aliquippa, Steel-High, Clairton, (Scotland back in the day)… these are essentially A / AA schools where getting just two or three D1 athletes propels you into the ranks of the elite programs. For the larger classes, though, it takes LOTS of great players to sustain success, which usually means excellent facilities, no work commitments for players, well-paid coaches or coaches with deep community ties, summer camps, and plenty of resources. It means having money in the district and at home with very few exceptions.

  471. Buddy says:

    @ jones

    Way I understand it, talkin’ public schools here, If you wanna go to another school district you must pay tuition ( not sure what that is but it be AT LEAST

    the typical school tax of that district ) PLUS the property tax of your school district.. Costly.

    Someone told me it’s around 10 k, which is double the typical school tax. Not sure about that.

    Note: the above might be all moot if you can’t go to another district under any circumstance.

    The very least is you may not be able to play sports at that school , probably at least 1 year.

    That’s why some parents set up a “grandparents address” in that district and the kid lives there.

    I’m sure someone here can let me know how much of the above is true and not true.

  472. mark d says:

    Big game up here in D2 Berwick at Valley View both 5-0 should go a long way to determine playoff seeding.I think they may meet again down the road

  473. The Joneses says:

    4th & Long- I think you nailed it. People on tend to focus on SJP because they win and or play PIAA. What I don’t like about how people attack the privates is they only attack those SJP. MANY other privates pull kids from public schools to play sports and from other states. No one is up in arms if a Germantown Academy, Malvern Prep or Penn Charter does it because it doesn’t impact their ability to win a state championship. Your parental malpractice line is genius. I for one would NEVER turn down a better educational and athletic opportunity for my child, simply to appeal to those wanting a balance of power. Someone correct me if I am wrong about this, can’t a child attend an out of district school if they wish, they child just has to pay tuition? Is this is true, then does this change the narrative because public schools can have kids from outside their boarders.

  474. Buddy says:


    Heard on the radio the NP new stadium might be still pending.

    They allotted 6 million, I believe the lowest bid is 1 1/2 million greater ( if I heard correctly).

    Don’t think they have any choice. Probably the worst field in eastern Pa.

    Also may not be completed for opening of next season. So more games away from home.

  475. mark d says:

    D3 Mike nothing make it more fun when you can go back and forth but it going to come down to being played on the field time will tell and remember i said i didn’t think the Wyoming area will win just play with them and i been wrong before lol !!!!

  476. Foleman says:

    Phillyboy, if wealth correlated with great HS football programs, then the these 5 School Districts, which are the top 5 wealthiest SD’S in Pa would be powerhouses.

    1-Unionville/Chadds Ford-2nd tier Chestmont team, usually gets crushed by the Downingtowns

    2-Tredyffrin-Eastown-(Conestoga)-A joke of a program for decades

    3-Lower Merion-Ditto

    4-New Hope Solebury-had a nice run last year but that’s it

    5-Council Rock-Never remember that school doing anything in football

  477. Kevin X says:

    I suppose this is good news/bad news for North Penn fans……the good news is that the Crawford stadium renovations are a go……the bad, as I understand it, NP’s last home game of the 2019 season will be the homecoming game Oct. 4th against Souderton. Their week 10 game against Tennant, will not be played at Crawford, nor any potentially “home” playoff games, due to the start of the stadium renovations.

  478. 4th and Long says:

    Phillyboy, I think you’re nibbling at the edge of the issue. First, in Pennsylvania, some of the best public football is played in economically middling areas. I’m a SE PA guy and know relatively little about the rest of the state, but Aliquippa, Clairton, Steelton-Highspire, Harrisburg and, closer to home, even Coatesville, don’t strike me as towns with high average incomes. The problem is the cities with troubled school districts (Philly is exhibit A) where it would be parental malpractice to keep your kid in most of the public schools if they had the chance to go to a private for free. Not only does the private sports program get better, but the public one gets worse. I wonder if the NYT took that into account.

  479. Buddy says:

    Uncle T;

    I think NP will win out. By the time they meet Souderton, and especially CB West, this freshman QB might have it together.

    DTW should be #1 seed. I see no one beating them in D1. They already beat GV. NP will be one of the top 4 seeds.

    GV strength of schedule hurts them. Best game for DTW will be DTE ( not C’ville). Unionville and WC East might shock everyone.

    Just give SJP the state trophy now. Too bad LaSalle has to play them in early rounds. Those two probably should be in the state final.

    So in summary……………same ol same ol

  480. D3 Mike says:

    Ok fair enough. But you saw a different game on ESPN than I did then. D linemen don’t really get “pushed around” by a wing-t. They get trapped and kicked and cut by guys running at them with a 5-yard head start and/or from an odd angle. And who knows if the wing-t is even run much in South Carolina. But as I said, those Hammond kids have offers from Clemson and Georgia and are rated in the top 20 at their positions in the entire country. The two Wyoming Area kids you mentioned have offers from Rutgers and I can’t find the other one in a database, although it looks like his brother went to Millersville? I’m sure they are great players but Clemson and Georgia sort of speak for themselves don’t they? I mean if you are basing this all on game film, you should probably send the tapes down to the SEC to let them know they’ve offered the wrong players.

    Moreover, the original point was to counter people saying Southern Columbia might get “out muscled” and the game would be a “contrast of styles”. It wasn’t to knock Wyoming Area or a bunch of kids busting their butts. But SCA runs the ball, shuts down the run, and is sending players to Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State and Wisconsin – and that’s just the senior class!

    I guess we will see in week 8. I’d love to be wrong and watch at least a half of competitive football but I doubt it. I’m pretty sure the stronger team is actually the same one that is the faster team.

  481. mark d says:

    D3mike i have no emotion in this i not a Wyoming area or southern fan as for the big rated lineman i saw them get pushed all around the field by southern line man who as far as i know have no D1 offers so what did the rating mean >As for Wyoming area i watch them play 2 games one live and one on film and they get after people and beat therm up not judging with emotion judging by what i see Nice thing about this is it will be settled on the field no poll no rating and that what makes it fun

  482. mark d says:

    thank you Dave

  483. phillyboy says:

    Good looking out, Kevin X. Interesting article, a little surprised the NY Times allowed free access to the article. Iowa is thinking outside the box, why not try it, see what happens. As the article pointed out, they don’t have the problem of the private super programs due to the fact that it’s by and large a rural state. But in the populated areas, what causes the super team to come about is the ability of the privates to give out scholarships or significant aid to certain players. Here’s the deal, schools like SJP and Erie Prep alreay have the advantages of wealth: rpesources, structure, smarts, etc. They would be very good even without doling out scholarships. To have those advantages, and then to pluck the elite athletes in the area through significant aid or whatever is what propels them in the the super team stratospere. That’s the bottom line. It seems an injustice insomuch as sports is concerned but on the other hand, got to have freedom, so it continues.

  484. Kevin X says:

    Enrollment figures?? Playing up?? Success factor?? Throw them all out the window……..there’s a new sheriff in town!!!!

    Leave it to the NY Times!!!

    Now I’m really scratching my head why my alma mater is 0-5

  485. David Mika says:

    Mark D. There was a shooting outside the stadium. Both coaching staff did a tremendous job dealing with it.

  486. MARK D says:


  487. Brian says:

    Hollenbach is an Alabama lifer. He went to all the Saban camps from middle school up. His parents put a lot of money into the university. My guess is he wants to learn from the best. He seems to be ok going there and not playing. I would want to use my 4 years of eligibility and not stand on the sideline, but that’s me. I won’t ever question another’s decision that may differ from mine.

  488. D3 Mike says:

    @Sausmann I guess it depends on your expectations and what you want out of life. I have a friend who scored all of 2 points in his 4-year career as a Duke basketball player in the late 1990s / early 2000s. He could have played lots of places. Instead, he practiced with the best in the world, owns an NCAA championship ring, and parlayed the above into a Harvard MBA, a 7-figure consulting job, and a supermodel wife. Just think of the networking and career opportunities in your 20s if you want to go into coaching or broadcasting, have a good head on your shoulders, and list “former Quarterback at Alabama” as your byline – as opposed to “two-year starter at Idaho State”. Which gets the interview? Just putting that out there. Obviously, if it’s all about time on the football field he’d go elsewhere but if you aren’t going to play in the NFL there might be other considerations. And maybe he turns into a slot receiver or loves being a gunner on special teams at Alabama? IDK.

    As for Wyoming Area and Wilson running backs, I’m going to let fans be fans and basically say I couldn’t disagree more with either of your assessments. One thing I’ve learned is that once emotions get involved on football forums, you can’t even convince people that 1+1=2 if it involves the school they follow. If you really believe that two nationally rated defensive lineman with offers from Clemson and Georgia aren’t physical, knock yourself out. And if you really think a 175-pound sophomore with 25 career carries and no D1 offers (yet) is as good as a 200-pound sophomore with 2,000 career yards and offers from Penn State and Clemson – again, knock yourself out. It’s still a free country. Everyone check back in 27 months from now because by then Singleton will have 7,000+ career yards and be the most talked about RB in the state. Book it.

  489. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @sausmann9 I have also thought about Hollenbach. I believe he was a honor student in high school at the highest level. He understands he is a walk on and has to prove himself which will be difficult for him but hey a free ride and a chance for a championship ring and free school why not ! I forgot a great education also included. Alot of kids go this route. I think he knows the odds are stacked against HIS dream. I wish him the best of luck from what I have been told he is quality kid.

  490. sausmann9 says:

    Former SCA Hollenbach question – at what point does Hollenbach go into the transfer portal and find a team he can actually compete for a starting spot??? I hate to see so much talent wasted on the sidelines but truth be told Bama just got ANOTHER FIVE-STAR quarterback commitment. That makes two five-star and two-four star quarterbacks waiting for Tua to go. Hollenbach is a mid-level three-star quarterback who will end up being another Tommy Stevens. Hollenbach could probably start at 10 other D1 colleges so what gives on staying there???

  491. mark d says:

    D3 mike Wyoming area has two kids on the line who are getting D1 offers wycoski 6ft 3 300 lb and solomon 6 tt 4 305 and unlike the kids from Harmmond they are physical and nasty plus the qb getting D1 looks not as a qb but as a deference back so their is talent their as i sad before do i think thay can beat Southern no but i think it a better game than people think

  492. MARK D says:

    @Kevin x no that their weakness they are slow even by D2 standards they no where have the speed of a Valley View or Dallas but they are big and physical there Qb throws a nice ball but they don’t really have any burners on the out side

  493. Uncle T says:

    @ Jay and Chief,

    DWest is the real deal, definite favorites in D1 this year. The tailback Lewis is a clone of Aaron Young, and their defense can move. I expect them to run the table and get the 1 seed. DEast has a great group of kids, but I can’t acknowledge them as a playoff threat until their coaching staff proves it can win a big game. I don’t trust that they can adjust when the better teams roll in (i.e. them basically waving the white flag in the first quarter last year vs. Coatesville. Just an unacceptable way to lead a team). I’d like for them to prove me wrong on that only because they’ve shortchanged their own kids, but I think Matt Ortega and crew can coach circles around East.

    Other than that, with the way the rankings and schedules look, a 7 win, 2 loss Coatesville could end up with a juicy 1st round road matchup against somebody like Garnet Valley or North Penn. NP, CB West, and Souderton all still have to play each other, so if we were to give each of them one loss from that round robin that would put NP in the 4-8 seed range. Garnet Valley should crush the rest of their schedule, but they play too many 5A teams for them to get enough points to leapfrog the SOL 1 loss teams, so they’ll be in that seeding range as well.

  494. Chief Red Raider says:

    @ Jay,

    Good comments. I think they still have a chance to make some noise, but an ENIGMA.

  495. Jay says:


    Seems that Ricky continues to injure the ankle, and Dapree can only do so much (which is a lot of course but you get the point). Both Downingtown teams look solid and West looks like it’s ready to dethrone Coatesville as the team to beat in District One. I am rooting for Coatesville and I’ve really enjoyed the ride the past couple years, but I can’t see them winning both games at Downingtown in October, and if the injury bug is still biting them, I think they could be blown out by West.

    Either way, I see a road game in the first round of the playoffs, and a much steeper climb than last year.

    But then again, they stayed close with Harrisburg… the team is an enigma right now.

  496. Joe Lenart says:

    D3 Mike that sounds a lot like an accusation?!?! And tell me why Wilson would need the services of Mr. Singleton? He was non-existent against Wilson a few weeks ago. He can continue to rack up his gaudy yards and TDs against the sisters of the poor. Besides, Wilson has plenty of RBs of their own who are just as good including Soph Jadyn Jones.

  497. D3 Mike says:

    6A Reading High (4-0) vs. 5A Governor Mifflin (1-3) and it’s 42-0 Mifflin at the half. Another barnburner!

    Still worth the $5 just to see sophomore RB sensation Nick Singleton in person for the first time. Remember the name. Already offers from Penn State and a host of other schools. RHS is terrible but the one thing they do have is team speed – and this kid is like a lightning bolt thru the defense.

    At the half Singleton has 231 yards and 5 TDs… on 7 carries. He had 169 yards and 5 TDs basically playing only the first half last week, too. It will be interesting to see if he stays at Mifflin or if his family finds itself in an apartment in the Wilson school district for non-athletic reasons.

  498. Chief Red Raider says:

    I couldn’t watch the Coatesville/Unionville game last night. No disrespect to Unionville, they always have good teams, but after the CV game I thought C’ville looked pretty good (especially the defense) and would roll last night, but they got torched by Unionville (who looked pretty average against Kennett IMO). I don’t think the sky is falling, they still have 2 of the best players in the state and a lot of team speed, but are there injuries? Is Ortega still hurt? I know they are young, but am I missing something? The C’ville/Downingtown games should be great, but I’m not so sure. The Rustin game could be interesting too.

  499. Kevin X says:

    Well OK now, a lovely night for our top ranked eastern 5A teams…..

    Too late now, but any top 4A team that wanted a realistic shot at a state championship should have played up to 5A…..

  500. Matt says:

    @d3 Mike…..agree. Southern won again 62-0…..that’s 36-0 against a d1 loaded Hammond team, 48-0 against a rival MCA and a team that usually gives them their toughest game each year, 76-0 and last two weeks 62-0. That’s 284-0 halfway thru season….that’s unheard off. I know steel valley mercy ruled every team but did they shutout every team??…..this southern team has a chance to mercy rule and shut out every team. Wyoming Area maybe loses 35-0 or 42-0. Which could be one of their closest games I guess.

  501. Jeff H. says:

    Curious who the D3 guys like tonight when Manheim Township travels to Cocalico. Appears this game should be very competitive and could go either way, I’ll pick MT 31-27, but wouldn’t be surprised if Cocalico upsets them, any of you D3 guys like Cocalico tonight?

  502. Jeff H says:

    For those interested in games in Western PA tonight there are a couple of interesting match-ups, in 6A Mt Lebanon with new coach Bob Palko travels to Wexford to take on North Allegheny. Mt Lebanon is much improved from game 1 when I saw them get dominated by Gateway, I think this game will be pretty competitive, although Lebo will likely struggle to move the ball against NA’s defense, I see NA winning something like 21-10.

    Another interesting game is 6A PCC vs. 5A Bethel Park, game is being played at the Wolvarena since PCC doesn’t have a home field, they are like nomads and play their home games at various locations. Last year PCC won 7-6, and I see a similar defensive struggle tonight, game should be close and wouldn’t be surprised if BP upsets them.

    Meanwhile, 5A Penn Trafford travels to Ohio to take on traditional power Massillon Washington at Paul Brown stadium, it’s a shame PT’s top 2 RB’s are hurt, if they were at full strength I think they could make this game very interesting, without those 2 guys think they will struggle on offense and their excellent defense will get worn down, the 2 guys that got hurt last week also play defense, Caleb Lisbon is a safety, and Sam Fanelli plays linebacker, I see Massillon winning 28-7. Interestingly Gateway will also travel to Massillon to play them on 10/11, both of these schools were left with an open date when Albert Gallatin decided not to play football in the WPIAL, and kudos to both teams for scheduling an out of state power team. McKeesport also had an open date in week 2 for the same reason, and to their credit they scheduled Erie Prep, would be nice if TJ followed their lead and scheduled a big time opponent in week 0.

  503. D3 Mike says:

    Speaking of SCA on Max Preps, the national folks certainly have a low opinion on Pennsylvania football this year. Agree/disagree?

    Current Max Preps Combined Pennsylvania / “Maryland” Rankings

    1. St. Frances Academy (2)
    2. DeMatha (8)
    3. ** St. Joe’s Prep (13) **
    4. Our Lady of Good Counsel (30)
    5. Gonzaga (31)
    6. St. John’s (34)
    7. Archbishop Spalding (113)
    8. McDonogh (130)
    9. ** Southern Columbia (133) **
    10. Mount St. Joseph (142)

  504. D3 Mike says:

    Slow night in Berks. I’ll probably head over to Lancaster County for Manheim Township and Cocalico. Sort of surprised that all 9 writers in the Lancaster paper picked MT in that one… Cocalico has a talented team. We’ll see if they have enough speed in the secondary to slow down MT.

    Speaking of speed vs. power… regarding Southern Columbia, the Hammond team they ran over and shutout in Week 1 featured multiple 4-star linemen. I highly doubt Wyoming Area or any team short of an elite 6A program would out-muscle them. The “speed” kids at Southern Columbia all bench 350 pounds. That’s why they are heading to elite Division 1 football programs. And the linemen / linebackers I’ve seen certainly look like they own keys to the weight room. I applaud Wyoming Area for stepping up, but SCA is on another planet. Someone affiliated with the program really should go thru the MaxPreps rankings and see if they are considered the #1 “small school” in the US.

  505. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    I was in the area over Labor Day weekend and I took the opportunity to check out the Scr. Prep/WA game, thinking it would be a good one. I was wrong on that thinking. Unfortunately SP was not the SP of the past few years. Like you said, WA is big, physical, even had a little nastiness to them, but slow as can be, at least compared to what I am use to seeing in D1 and the PCL. Hopefully WA can give SCA game. Either way, think it will be good experience for WA, as I don’t see them playing anyone of consequence until the state 3A semi’s against probably Wyomissing, Middletown, N-G, or PJPII, which will be a definite step up in class against any one of those teams.

    @ Jeff H

    I may check out Wood tonight. Only other local game of any interest for me is Penn Charter @ Upper Dublin. Both games involve those so called top ranked eastern “5A” schools. Penn Charter kicked U Dubs butt last year, so don’t know what to make of tonight’s game, or for that matter, the Wood/Peddie game tonight as well.

  506. mark d says:

    @tornado fan Wyoming Area is a very big very physical football team .Do i think they can beat Southern no, but i think they will be in the game .it a classic game of size verses speed .I believe Southern speed will be the difference

  507. Mcd65 says:

    Jeff H. I agree that Wood will struggle even to get to the semi-finals this year. As you stated they are way down this year and also lost Santiago their 1600 yard rusher to Tennent .This weeks game with Peddie from NJ should give us an idea how the rest of the year will play out. I have 3 kids that went to Wood and have followed them for some time and for the first time in about 10 years I have sensed they will have a tough time. With all that negativism I hope Im wrong . They have no shot IMO against both ST Joes or LaSalle .

  508. Coach D says:

    @WIP Caller New Hope, Lower Moreland, Springfield, Tennant, Cheltenham and Upper Moreland were supposed to have their own division (Freedom) this year. SOL wanted to create a small schools division. Thus whole reason LM and NH joined the SOL. The enrollment for all PIAA schools will be recounted this november for reclassification LM might jump up to 5A with their enrollment going up the last few years….. However LM took the 1 year exemption and will not be doing league play until 2021. North Penn b*tched and moaned about not wanting to realign this year because they struggle to find opponents and don’t like scheduling teams like Lasalle. So unfortunately We can all thank North Penn for a screwing everything up.

  509. Jeff H. says:

    Is it just me or does anyone else think Archbishop Wood is ranked #1 in 5A mostly due to reputation and not what they’ve done on the field. Their non conference schedule this year is weak and they don’t play any of the NJ power teams like they typically have in the past, so tough to get a handle on how good they are, but all the reports I’ve read out of Philadelphia are they are down this year by their lofty standards and nowhere near as good as a few years ago, or even as good as last years team that lost to Penn Hills. They will likely get to the state semi-finals to take on the WPIAL champ like last year because their path in the playoffs is pretty weak, but I just don’t see them winning 5A, anyone that follows the PCL feel differently?

  510. Jeff H says:

    @ Buddy – agree with you DWest is the best team right now in D1 and a good bit better than DEast, coming into the season I had DW behind Coatesville, but based on the games played thus far I’d put them at the top of D1. WC East hosts DW on 10/11, and that game is sandwiched between DE and Coatesville for DW, so WCE could be catching them at the right time, we’ll see!

  511. Jeff H says:

    D3 Mike – yes, the WPIAL does handcuff teams, as they also schedule the non-section games, so TJ doesn’t have much flexibility with their schedule. With that being said the WPIAL does let teams schedule their own week zero game, and this year they scheduled 6A Canon McMillan and crushed them 54-10. I personally think they would have been better served playing a traditional 5A or 6A power and not a mediocre program like Canon Mac, but other than the week 0 game the WPIAL makes the schedules.

    TJ’s best team recently was 2016, they were solid last year as usual but not great and got beat by South Fayette at Heinz, their weak schedule definitely hurts them come state playoff time when they run into ECP, because ECP is by far the best team they will have played all year, but on the other hand TJ is just another game for ECP because they will have already played several teams just as good or better than TJ (like St. Edwards last week). The script will probably be the same this year, TJ will blow away the competition in the WPIAL then lose by 2-3 scores to ECP in the state playoffs, and then we get to hear TJ’s coach whine about all the advantages the private schools have.

  512. Buddy says:

    et al:

    IMO, DTW is quite a bit better team then DTE. We’ll certainly find out.

    If WC East can hang with DTW ( I assume they play), then that would be some genuine kudos for WC east.

    Again, IMO, DTW is best team ( talkin’ 6A of course) in D1. That includes Coatesville, DTE and certainly NP.

    BTW, from what I heard, NP will be starting their freshman QB rest of year. Their starting senior QB ( quite a bit better),

    broke his foot. They ( NP) should be fine for the regular season ( they’ll make playoffs ) , but then will be in a world of poop.

  513. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, I hear you, I just never know about TJ. Awesome coach, clean program, but isn’t the annual criticism (from the WPIAL folks who are a lot closer to it than I am) that they don’t schedule top teams for non-league games to get them ready for the state playoffs? That’s what the other perennial state-ranked, 4A teams in the state do. TJ basically goes 10-0 every other year while ECP, Imhotep, Becahi, McDevitt, and even Berks Catholic (not sure about Valley View) play multiple state-ranked and/or 6A teams and enter districts with 1-3 losses.

    I’m not saying it isn’t their best team in years, it’s just that I also heard the same sentiment last year and that no one can really tell if it is or it isn’t their best team until the ECP game. They don’t really play anyone on their level (or better) until the WPIAL finals. I don’t know if the WPIAL puts handcuffs on how teams schedule so apologies if I have no clue what I’m talking about, but can they not schedule a home-and-home with one of the many great 5A programs in the area? I’d actually have less of an issue with PennLive ranking them #1 if they were 3-1 with a 28-21 loss to Penn Hills on their record than I do with them being undefeated and mercy ruling everyone on their schedule for 3 months.

  514. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – I hear you about WC East, and joke was probably not the right word to use, from the accounts I read they certainly had their chances against a solid DEast team, and I think WC has a legit chance to win the D1 5A championship. My comment was more meant that historically speaking it’s difficult for me to believe there are 3 teams in 5A in DI that are better than all the 5A teams in D3, and would have ranked at least 1 of the D3 teams ahead of WC East at this point.

    The nice thing is the winners of D1 and D3 will meet in the Eastern Final so we’ll know then which district has the better 5A team this year.

  515. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – you’re right, although Penn LIve typically uses a little more discretion, they still have SJP #1 in 6A despite a 1-2 record, and obviously deservedly so, SJP is #1 until they lose to a PA team. The first 2 games between TJ and ECP in 2015-16 were competitive, they lost 28-21 in Erie in 2015, and 30-13 in 2016 at Baldwin, I was at that game and it was more competitive than the final would indicate, although there is no doubt the better team won, TJ got blown out in 2017, and of course ECP blew out South Fayette last year.

    This might be TJ’s best team in several years, although like I have stated I’ll believe they can beat ECP when it happens, it’s almost a certainty those 2 will be playing in the quarterfinals again for the fourth time in 5 yrs.

    And you’re absolutely right about Imhotep, they are the team to beat in the east until proven otherwise, hard for me to see anyone in the east other than Becahi that would challenge Imhotep in the playoffs, I along with most of the rest of the state would love to see a 4A final between someone other than ECP and Imhotep, but I don’t think it would surprise anyone on this board if they meet in the final for the fifth year in a row. .

  516. Tornado Fan says:

    Looking at Southern’s schedule, Wyoming Area might be the only team left in the regular season with a chance to score on them (or at least their 1st team). It might not be a 1st Q mercy rule game, but I still see this being another 35 or 42-0 game.

  517. NW PS says:

    @D3 mike: I couldn’t agree more. Erie Prep lost a very tight game against a very good St Ed’s and they drop in rankings. I’ve never liked Pennlive rankings though they are frequently wrong. I also agree that it will be Imhotep and Becahi out of the east. IF Erie Cathedral can stay healthy, which is a big IF, I would favor then to make another run. Keep in mind that TJ is no slouch and has a very senior heavy team which will make for a great game if it comes to that.

  518. D3 Mike says:

    Everyone always overreacts to losses when making rankings, PennLive included. 3-time defending state champ ECP has beaten the WPIAL 4A rep by an average of 25 points the past 3 years and all of the games were basically decided by halftime. They are the team to beat in 4A until they finally lose in the PIAA playoffs.

    Also, I don’t care if Imhotep loses 5 regular season games. They are the favorites in 4A in the east for the same historical reasons. I think they lost to Wyomissing way back in the 2012 SF but otherwise are undefeated in the eastern side of the state playoffs, and that covers like 9 years or something crazy like that. The only reason they aren’t in the top 10 is because they lost 3 games. It has nothing to do with team quality. Not even the Northwestern Lehigh AD would pick his squad over Imhotep.

  519. David Mika says:

    No problem, Jeff!

  520. Jeff H says:

    @ Dave – thanks for the clarification, I disagree with Penn Live! I’m a WPIAL guy and hope TJ beats Erie Prep this year, but I’ll believe it when I see it, no way would I have them ranked above ECP at this time. The Pittsburgh TribLive statewide poll still has ECP #1 and TJ #2, so the Pittsburgh guys know who is #1 in 4A until proven otherwise.

  521. mark d says:

    @kevin x i think it a great move by both teams why play another first quarter mercy rule game when you can play some competition.Will be interesting how Wyoming area size matches up with Southern speed !!!

  522. David Mika says:

    Jeff H. They are Pennlives statewide rankings.

  523. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – agree Wilson’s blowout of MC took some of the luster off of Warwick’s win the prior week, but then again it appears Wilson might be the best team in the district, maybe even better than Harrisburg. It’s great that Wilson, Warwick and MT will all face each other in the next several weeks, throw in the Cocalico-MT game this week and we’ll have a much better idea soon of the pecking order in both 6A and 5A in D3.

    Also agree with you 5A is wide open, I think you could make the case for at least 6 and maybe more teams that have a legitimate chance of getting to Hershey, more than probably any other class, although I think 1A is pretty wide open as well.

    Saw Dave Mika’s state rankings and he moved TJ ahead of Erie Prep in 4A, I don’t see how you can demote ECP for losing to one of the best teams in Ohio by a touchdown, while TJ has beaten up some really bad teams, with the exception of Belle Vernon. TJ doesn’t face much competition in 4A in the WPIAL, and ECP’s strength of schedule is far tougher, it’s not even close, so for me ECP stays number one in 4A until proven otherwise by a PA team.

  524. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H

    I’m going to push back just a weeeeeee bit on your West Chester East comment. More so your use of the word “joke” in the rankings. I was at the WCE/D-Town East game Saturday night, and WCE is the real deal. They would of, could of, should of won that game, basically if not for some questionable play calling on their last drive, no time outs remaining, bad clock management, and their best player and running back (who I am not even going to attempt his name) getting banged up late in the second half. This conversation probably be better to have this time next week, because there are some interesting games featuring some of these top ranked 5A east teams this weekend.

    @ D3 Mike

    Yes, 5A is the most wide open. 3A is as well. “A” I really don’t care about, maybe 4 “A” teams within 50-60 miles of me. More of western conversation. 2A, 4A and 6A was over before the season even kicked off.

    Also, I read K-Town only dressed 18 for last weeks game and had a few more kids banged up in the first (and only) half. Both coaches agreed to call the game. Maybe they could look into 8 man football going forward. Expect to see that form to become more popular around the state.

  525. Brian says:

    Kevin, I was going to comment on this topic. This could be the first team to score on them or at least the first team. I’m excited to see this matchup between southern and Wyoming area. They’re ranked 3 in 3A from what I see. I’m glad they got this opportunity. Not surprised by the move by shikellamy. They tried to back out a few years ago.

  526. Kevin X says:

    Huh, guess someone heard me, sort of…. 🙂

    From Twitter……

    “Wyoming Area athletic director Joe Pizano just confirmed Wyoming Area will be hosting Southern Columbia in Week 8”

    “That same week, Holy Redeemer will be playing Shikellamy. No venue has been selected for the game as of yet”

  527. D3 Mike says:

    Kutztown might call the season after week 6. Not sure. They forfeited to BC in 2017 rather than play so I suspect they might do the same this year (to be fair I think they were down to like 22 players by the end of the year). Re: switching opponents, both coaches tried to schedule BC and Imhotep in 2017 when Kutztown announced their forfeit in advance but the BC AD nixed it. Basically they didn’t want to risk injuries the week before the Wyomissing game. For the same reason, Wyomissing might not want another difficult opponent (such as Wyoming) that late in the year. Both programs typically load up non league and then coast into week 10.

    Wilson demolishing Manheim Central last week took a lot of the luster off of Warwick’s convincing win over Manheim Central the week prior, which IMO was the main reason for everyone to be so high on them and the only reason PennLive has them where they are now. They went what, 8-3 last year? and have never won a district 3 playoff game (0-5 all-time) so their making Hershey would mean they are playing 5 weeks later than the program has ever played before. Not saying they can’t do it and by all accounts this is their best team in generations… but I’m a pedigree guy and a pedigree program they are not. If they beat Township and Wilson the first two weeks of October, well then you can brush off a seat on the bandwagon for me because in that case they are definitely the 5A team to beat in the “East”. A split and you could still make a case, although Cocalico will have a say in all of this. 5A should be fun – I think it might be the most wide open class.

  528. Jeff H. says:

    @d3 Mike – completely agree with you that the top privates voluntarily playing up a class or two would ease some of the criticism, I’ve been arguing for the last 4 yrs on the Western PA board that Erie Prep should at the very least be playing 5A if not 6A, and all the Prep fans disagreed.

    @JC – I am with you on both Warwick and Cocalico, I had both of them in my preseason top 10 in the state, I would not be surprised at all if one of them ends up in Hershey for the 5A final come December, I think both of them are better than any of the three D1 teams in the rankings, and it’s a joke that West Chester East at 3-1 is ranked ahead of either Warwick or Cocalico.

  529. Kevin X says:

    For you Berks and D3 guys…….do you know, or expect Kutztown to soldier on the rest of this season?? This week (Morrisville) and next (Schuylkill Valley) appear to be games that they possibly can make a go at, but yikes, then Berks Catholic and Wyomissing, the following two weeks.

    One scenerio, that I know would never happen at this stage of the game, but I’ll toss it out there anyway, is to switch some dance partners week 8. Wyoming Area up in D2 is scheduled with Holy Redeemer that week, and to me that looks like a complete mis-match, so why don’t we hook up the two “Wyos” and have a competitive game pitting Wyoming Area (who I’d love to see actually play someone before mid to late November) and Wyomissing, and then let Kutztown and Holy Redeemer meet-up??

  530. JC says:

    Still a little surprised that no D3 teams are in the EPA rankings for 5A. Cocalico and Warwick especially have been impressive. Pennlive’s rankings have Warwick 4th in the state, so that strikes me as a bit of a large discrepancy. Imhotep should be back in the teams to watch for 4A as well after beating Malvern Prep. No gripes about the other rankings, though.

  531. D3 Mike says:

    @Foleman, I get that football has changed somewhat over the past 20+ years but when I played at HN we were class A and often dressed 25-30. At that point the IC league was just one section and included Exeter and Muhlenberg and our non-league schedule included Mifflin and Reading (with Reading and Muhlenberg fielding good teams then, too). So there’s no reason with BC as a 3A/4A now and dressing 60+ that they can’t play those same teams we did with half the talent, half the weight room, and no home field.

    To continue to mercy rule most of section 2 year in and year out just isn’t sporting so I really hope they man up and play up. BC should also stay in 4A. They’ve played in 6 straight district finals for gods sake. Generally, I think if the better non-boundary schools simply volunteered to play up it would go a long way toward calming some of the frustration directed toward them. Maybe wishful thinking but it couldn’t hurt.

  532. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – regarding your question about where TJ and Aliquippa rank overall in the WPIAL this year I would definitely put TJ in the top 10, but not the top 5, there are too many solid 5A teams for them to crack the top 5, along with the usual contenders in 6A. I think Aliquippa would not be in the top 10 at this point, probably have them somewhere in the next 5, last year at the end of the season there is no doubt in my mind they were one of the top 10 teams in the WPIAL, and would have beaten a lot of the 5A teams I saw in person over the course of the season (although I doubt they would have beaten Penn Hills).

    5A top ranked Penn Trafford beat McKeesport on Friday 29-12, as expected, however, their title hopes may have suffered a big blow when standout running back Caleb Lisbon suffered a knee injury in the first half, and his backup Sam Fanelli also suffered a significant knee injury in the game as well, both of those guys are also key contributors on defense. No updates on either yet that I’ve heard, but both were on crutches at the end of the game and both could be out for an extended period of time, perhaps the rest of the season, if that turns out to be the case either Peters Township or Gateway become the new favorite in the WPIAL in 5A, I’ll post if I get any updates on either player, hopefully neither faces a major rehab but from the reports I heard didn’t look good Friday night. .

  533. 4th and Long says:

    WIP, a little insight into the SOL American Division. LM is probably moving up to 5A on the next reclassification. Their demographics for football make them more like a 2A school. It’s a tough place to win. NH-S is going the other direction because they’re at the bottom end of 3A right now and are probably heading for 2A a couple of reviews from now. You’ll have 6A schools in the same conference with a 2A school. Only in Pennsylvania.

  534. 4th and Long says:

    FrankG (and others), you’ve hit on the reality that today’s athletes are so heavily influenced by media that coaches have less control than they used to. It’s not just nationally recruited stars, it seeps all the way down to kids who are merely above average. It is much more difficult to find kids with talent who are willing to play with discipline today than it was as recently as a decade ago.

  535. 4th and Long says:

    KevinX, I’m the one who brought the scheduling issue up. I wasn’t at the meeting, but literally got it second hand from someone who was there. My understanding is NP said it’s hard for them to find non-conference opponents because schools either don’t want to get beaten up by them or vice versa, they don’t want to get beaten up by too many top out of conference opponents before hitting league play. Kind of what you see in college ball with teams scheduling one or two top non-conference opponents and a bunch of cupcakes. I’m not saying it makes sense, it’s just what was relayed to me.

  536. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, Adding Kutztown with Fleetwood-(+Oley) Would move them up to 5A according to the PIAA website numbers. Fleetwood would be the largest team Population wise in Div 2 of berks but they would be the smallest team population wise…outside of Berks Catholic in Division 1 so I believe they would stay in Div 2 of Berks. It’s not like Fleetwood would be inheriting a wealth of great players, we are talking Kutztown here, plus it would make Fleetwood more competitive with Wyomissing and now Conrad Weiser in Div 2. The wildcard here is Berks Catholic, Enrollment projections have them at 3A the next cycle, do they stay in Div 1 playing 5A and 6A schools? I guess if they are competitive in Div 1, they will stay there for the time being.

  537. FrankG says:

    @Foleman No doubt the quality of coaching has a lot to do with how disciplined players are. But I’d say the hype around some players–hype that sometimes starts before they even get to high school–may also contribute to some kinds of undisciplined play. It adds to the pressure on the kids who get all the hype, making some more likely to “lose it” when things don’t go their way. It also makes real targets for kids/teams that maybe want to get noticed for “shutting down” high-profile player x. I remember hearing that when SJP played State College in a scrimmage in Swift’s junior year he drew a couple of very late hits that almost certainly wouldn’t have happened to a lesser-known player.

    More broadly, maybe being on ESPN results in kids getting over-hyped. I certainly thought the Prep played a less disciplined game (in several respects) on Friday night than they usually play–and it wasn’t because of a different head coach. (All the other coaches on the team are pretty much the same.)

    Anyway, I know you weren’t commenting mainly on the Prep, but maybe some of the above applies more generally.

  538. Kevin X says:

    @ WIP

    Yeah, when I saw that too I said to myself, huh??? Someone mentioned about NP and some of the larger schools not liking a 4 division 6 team alignment set-up due to scheduling, but not totally getting that. You would have 23 other teams looking for early season games, plus the large Ches Mont and PAC schools looking for early season game as well. NP already has their annual game with LaSalle, so they’d only be looking for 4 games. Can’t get the D-towns, C’Ville or nearby Perk Valley to play?? Anyways, my football alignment would look like this:

    1. NP, PRidge, Soudy, CBE, CBS and CBW
    2. P-Bury, Nesh, CRN, CRS, Bens and HST
    3. Q-Town, UD, WmT, HH, PW and Abing
    4. Wiss, Chelt, SF Mont, UM, LM and NHS

  539. Kmac says:


    Thank you for the input on my rant. I didn’t want to take more time and space, but I certainly wondered about coaching today. I was fortunate to witness in my time coaches such as the late Mike Pettine Sr.; late George Curry, late Larry Green, and many, many more good, strong programs over 69 years of high school football.

    I can’t imagine its easy to coach in today’s world, but I would certainly think that basics and attitude would be part of it.

    Games are just so much more enjoyable to watch with good, crisp, clean, disciplined play.

  540. WIP Caller says:

    Does anyone else find the new SOL alignment confusing? Competitively, Upper Dublin will fit in the Continental, but this set up takes away most of their rivals. Also, PW and Tennent are both 6A schools that will play against a 3A New Hope, 4A Springfield Montco and 4A Lower Moreland. Tennent hasn’t been competitive, but that’s all but a guarantee that they will be in the bottom half of the playoff bracket because of points. Is SOL doing crossover games like the PAC? SOL should have just done what they do for almost every sport and flip Abington and Quakertown.

  541. Foleman says:

    Kmac, one word-“coaching” My HS coach is in the hall of fame, he made us practice non-stop until we ran the plays until perfection, anyone who jumped off sides or had a late hit in the game, ran laps at Monday’s practice…….FWIW, we rarely had any penalties…old school teaching like this is finiso in this world. I went to the Exeter/Berks Catholic game, the 1st game of the season, Exeter had 19 penalties, yes, 19 penalties, which cost them the game. Their head coach was whining after the game about home cooking, yet every penalty called on them was legit. Instead of saying, we will fix this, he blames the refs for his team’s lack of discipline. Modern coaching at its best. With HS coaches coming and going any more, this is the new norm. The most successful programs in Berks County-Wilson, Wyo, Berks Catholic have tenured, old school coaches, Gov Mifflins successful long time HC retired last year. Go watch a practice at Southern Columbia or Wyomissing or Erie Cathedral Prep and you will see what I am talking about.

  542. Dennis Pascoe says:

    I know nothing about the Kutztown football program but with the college being there and the size of the town you would think that there would be more interest. It is a shame when this happens. I would like to know what went wrong. If they do eliminate the program hopefully they can make the effort to co-op to another school. Such a shame.

  543. D3 Mike says:

    Foleman that’s an interesting point and I never attended an all-male school – but I think it’s hard to disentangle wealth from that equation. No distractions certainly helps and I would never argue with that premise. But we also know that family income correlates strongly with standardized test scores. I’d also argue that if you plotted family income and football performance across the state – whether public or private – you’d see a strong correlation there too. Certainly there are some big public school outliers, but being from the Reading area I’m sure you know that the 3 “districts” with the highest family incomes in the county are Wilson, Wyomissing and Berks Catholic. They also have the best football teams AND the highest test scores. I don’t believe that’s a coincidence.

    Do you know where the Kutztown kids going to Fleetwood would class them? They already have absorbed the Oley kids. I imaging adding another 3A school might bump them all the way up to 6A? Is the league really going to allow them to sit in section 2 if they do that?

  544. Kmac says:

    I have seen 16 games so far this season; in person, on TV, via video streaming live, and video streaming after the games. I have a question, what has happened to disciplined football?

    It’s been as entertaining as watching an episode of Dr. Sheldon Cooper’s “Fun with Flags.” Flags, flags, and more flags.

    In the games I have seen one way or another I have seen at least 3 or 4 TD’s called back on infractions, mostly holding or blocking in the back. Countless good gains by run or pass nullified due to penalties. The first week (Week 0 officially) I allowed for it being the usual second scrimmage week and did not expect so much discipline.

    But I have been treated to late hits out of bounds (WAY out of bounds!); a false start on two consecutive offensive plays; numerous snap-count errors; defensive encroachment and pure offsides; incidents of chippy actions that could have cost players a game if called; numerous personal foul or unsportsmanlike conduct on both teams; and the list goes on. EVERY game, so far.

    I have read that the SOL is down this year, and that is most of the games I have seen, but not all; I have also seen some PCL action and other district’s games.

    Everywhere there seems to be a general movement away from disciplined, crisp, good play.

    I am not saying there is a lack of talent for certain. Talent is seen, distributed on all teams. Distributed somewhat unevenly to be sure, but you can see it on the field; if only the discipline were attendant. Even the (then) #7 and #11 high school teams in the U S by some rating was a flag fest beyond what an astute discipline would call for.

    I am not complaining, but observing. I call out no officiating nor team particularly, but it appears to be a rampant situation throughout high school football.

    I hope it gets better as the season wears on, and next week is half the regular season over.

  545. PCC Pride of the Past says:

    Good evening all, PCC came into the season overrated. Just because the front 4 on defense has many D-1 offers does not mean they should be seen as a threat or be seated as high as they were. Coaching and playing is as horrible or if not getting worse year by year. There are a bunch of incredible young men / players on that team that deserve better guidance and coaching. This team could easily win the WPIAL championship with a better coaching staff from top to bottom. For as many players on this team, they are running too many on both sides of the ball and wearing down their own team. They will not make it back to Heinz. Looking at what NA did to them, PR and Mt. Lebo. may also get the best of PCC in the weeks to come. When the team fails at meeting it’s goals, it is not the players that did wrong, it starts with the leadership and guidance of all the coaching.
    I hope other alumni join me to make changes to the coaching staff just like they did in Basketball. Change may hurt for a little bit, but change is good for everyone involved especially when everything looks stale and old year after year. Time to wipe the slate clean!
    -Head down in shame!

  546. Foleman says:

    D3 Mike, with Conrad Weiser and Twin Valley heading to Div 2 in Berks and Berks Catholic moving up to Div1 next year, I believe the Kutztown Administration might have given the BCIAA a heads up that it will be dropping football, or maybe playing an independent schedule, here’s a crazy stat for you, the Kutztown basketball team has more players on it-(varsity and Jv) than the entire football team! I went to the Schuykill Valley/Pope John Paul game and the score was 52-0 at halftime, then the announcer at the game gave the Kutztown score and I’m thinking, no wonder kids want to transfer out from these small school programs. And I think that Schuykill Valley’s Head Coach Jeff Chillot is an excellent coach, yet he’s had problems the last several years getting kids out for the team. Berks football has consisted of the Haves and Have Nots for a long time, but the future doesn’t look too bright for several programs. On the Super programs, you will see that many of the super programs in Pa are all male schools-St. Joe Prep, LaSalle, Pitt Central Catholic, Erie Cathedral Prep, Malvern Prep, these schools are the elite of the elite, I went to an all male HS and a coed HS, no girls=no distractions. Same sex schools score 200 points higher on their SAT than Coed, open borders and recruiting is a big contributor also, but people have to understand these school recruit themselves and with football participation declining in PA, kids want to play for a winner. 76-0 at the Half, its time for Kutztown to pack it in.

  547. D3 Mike says:

    It’s not a single game problem. Kutztown was outscored 515-12 last year and hasn’t won since 2016. The only two smaller enrollment schools in the county with football are Berks Catholic and Wyomissing so it’s not like there is a cushy small school league for them around here where they can rebuild.

    I heard they just ended their youth program and will also be voting to discontinue the high school program. I imagine they would send their players to Fleetwood but I’m not sure.

    And I agree on the bunching. I call it “The Lebron effect.” From top to bottom, many would rather just sign with New England, Alabama, or Mater Dei than try to wrest the crown from them.

  548. phillyboy says:

    @ D3 Mike

    On another site somebody referred to the phenomenon of ‘bunching’, where all the best talent tends to aggregate at certain programs. It seems like in the last 20 years or so ‘super teams’ have developed. Mention any major urban area around the country and its super team comes to mind and frankly, the overwhelming majority of the time the private schools are the culprits. So I got to thinking, which states are the most functional and healthy and balanced in regards to competition sans the manufactured super team? Not counting states like Montana and South Dakota, of the states that are relevant I came up with 3: Texas, Georgia, and Indiana. To be less abstract, these are the 3 states where the public teams dominate. What do you guys think, are there any others? And why is this the case, what are those states doing to promote that?

  549. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike

    I would have had no problem with you copying and pasting my post from last Saturday morning. Would have saved you a lot of time 🙂

    Yes, something is going on here, and it’s kind of disturbing. I almost hate to ask, but what was with that Jim Thorpe/K-Town game??

    Things seemed a little calmer in D1 this week, and the game I was at, CBW @ CBS was very entertaining and an awesome atmosphere.

  550. Mike Smoll says:

    Wow, I just could not watch that game, I think it was something like 20 penalties, 9 of which were unsportmanship calls on the two teams and that was all before halftime, then there were the procedure penalties, you’d think this was the first game for both teams. Just unbelievably out of control were both teams, NO Discipline at all. Obviously two talented teams, but just POOR! And some of you people thing Coatesville is out of control, you should have seen St. Joes and IMG.

  551. D3 Mike says:

    Sort of a frustrating night. Was at Wilson West Lawn to see them play Manheim Central. Two great programs with 26 District 3 titles between them – they always play close games… and last night was yet another another mercy rule game. Looking across Berks County, I see 52-7, 41-7, 38-7, 41-0, and then of course Kutztown lost 76-0 to Jim Thorpe … in a game called at halftime!

    All of which prompted me to scroll all the state scores. 260 match ups between PIAA programs. Anyone care to take a guess how many were decided by a TD or less? All of 22 games. 8% of games. Maybe another 30 or 40 games decided by 1-2 TDs. So we’re talking something like 75% of games are non-competitive, and these are mostly non-league games where you can choose whom you play. I didn’t play all that long ago and scores were much tighter – and we didn’t have a mercy rule. A blowout was losing 28-7. Not sure if it’s the concentration of talent or weight training or if there’s even a solution but it’s frustrating to watch to be sure.

  552. Kmac says:


    Yes, someday I will have to scour my records just to see how many times the S O L has changed; it has been quite a bit.

    I don’t mind I just shuffle my hand written records to fit the current alignments, and of course the computer records are easily altered.

    But in the days I used to see the games with the “posse” as I called it, one of our group hated the changes whatever the reason. It was one factor in his leaving the high school football realm.

    You know as much as anyone before a game is played, Buddy! Good to see some familiar names still posting from a while back as yourself.

  553. Kevin X says:

    Looks like Downingtown is the place to be this weekend for D1 football. Tonight Perk Valley travels down to Kottmeyer to see if they could pull an upset over Downingtown West. Tomorrow night a battle of two 3-0 “East” teams, West Chester East head over to Kottmeyer to take on Downingtown East.

    I may check out an inter Central Bucks match-up at CB South tonight, as they host rival and undefeated 3-0 CB West.

  554. JC says:

    Two big games in D11 this weekend with Freedom-Nazareth and Parkland-Bethlehem Catholic. All four teams should wind up factoring in the district playoffs, and it would not surprise me if they end up being the top four teams in the EPC South. I like Freedom and Beca in those but would not be surprised by reversed results.

  555. ECL/METRO FAN says:

    Cleveland St. Eds will actually be traveling to Erie tonight. I think this game will be closer then it was last year. This game will be live on the Prep-Villa facebook page.

  556. D3 Mike says:

    Jeff, with TJ and Aliquippa being so strong and with 6A being somewhat down, would those smaller schools crack your overall WPIAL Top 10? Top 5? It looks like there’s a slew of 5A teams that could make a good case for being the best team in the area this year.

  557. Buddy says:


    That’s almost exactly the way it used to be in the SOL. They should have never changed it.

    NP, Neshaminy & Pennsbury should always be in the same division. Further travel though.

    I say SJP beats LS by a mere 10 points or less. Then what the hell do I know.

  558. Jeff H. says:

    @D3 Mike – no real marquee match ups in the WPIAL tonight, biggest is probably Penn Trafford-McKeesport in 5A, game is at PT and I think they’ll win by a couple of scores, also in 5A Peters Township plays West Allegheny, I saw Peters last week and they are very solid, good defense and passing attack, expect they win by a couple of scores. Not much going on in 6A, best game is Mt. Lebanon vs. Seneca Valley, I’ll pick Lebo at home in a low scoring game, say 20-14.

    Erie Cathedral Prep travels to Cleveland to play St. Edwards, who thumped them last year 35-3, I think this game will be closer but still like St. Ed’s by a couple of scores, that’s about it for the games in the west this weekend.

    I like Wilson to beat MC, think they have a big advantage in the trenches and will grind out a win

  559. Jeff H. says:

    @ Frank G – completely agree with everything you said about both LaSalle and SJP, I too expect SJP to win the regular season game in a few weeks by 2-3 scores, it’s the rematch where LaSalle has a puncher’s chance, and as you said the weather can be a big factor come November. Its pretty apparent the level of play is down statewide, it most definitely is in the WPIAL, and I don’t see any 6A teams in any other district that have much of a chance against SJP in the playoffs, assuming they are relatively healthy, if they get past LaSalle in the district playoffs I don’t foresee anyone coming within 3 TD’s of them the rest of the way.

  560. D3 Mike says:

    Where is everyone going to be this weekend?

    I’ll be at Wilson vs Manheim Central which should help sort out the pecking order in 6A and 5A in district 3.

    Interested to hear about some other good match ups from across the state.

  561. 4th and Long says:

    Kmac, I believe you nailed it for the new SOL. Proposal in the spring was four six team divisions but the large schools (NP in particular) complained about the difficulty of finding five non-league opponents, so the decision was made for three eight team divisions. There’s gonna be trouble in the American with huge demographic discrepancies between the haves and have nots.

  562. Kevin X says:

    To follow-up on Kmac’s recent post on the SOL, as it appears to be official:

  563. JC says:

    Those D1 A schools are in a real tough spot. Hard to get teams of higher classifications to want to play three A schools a year, and they’re so far from any other A teams. I guess they effectively have to go independent. I wonder if joining the PPL is a consideration.

  564. paul from philly says:

    @ Kevin X

    I always thought that would be a great idea. Everyone pitch in on the funding and you could have sports carnivals over the weekends. On fridays and saturdays you could take care of the entire PCL. I always thought La Salle University could make a nice chunk of change renting out McCarthy Stadium for PCL games. Not the nicest of areas but the location is pretty good for all competitors.

  565. Kmac says:

    I have seen nothing “official” but word on the street is that the Suburban One League will again adjust the divisions for the 2020 season. The new conferences to be:

    National: Abington, CB East, CB South, CB West, Neshaminy, North Penn, Pennridge & Pennsbury.

    Continental: Bensalem, Council Rock North, Council Rock South, H S Truman, Hatboro-Horsham, Quakertown, Souderton, & Upper Dublin.

    American: Cheltenham, Lower Moreland (new), New Hope-Solebury (new), P-W, Springfield (MONTCO), Upper Moreland, Wm Tennent, & Wissahickon.

    If true, it would appear an attempt to balance programs or school classifications the motive. Move of Lower Moreland and NH-Solebury from Bicentennial League would about decimate that league for football, leaving only Bristol, Jenkintown & Morrisville. Also might bring Springfield (MONTCO) back for football as they should be competitive with new schools in the conference.

  566. Mike says:

    I called St Joes Prep school, the IMG Prep game is at Rutgers

  567. Kevin X says:

    @ Frank G

    I’ve wondered and thought about that a few times myself, why these guys don’t get together and build one facility. Can host football in the fall, lax in the spring. Add LaSalle (and maybe Carroll and McDevitt) to that group (think N-G tho is good with the South Philly SS, right in their backyard), as they have home games at 4 different locations this year. Guess their nickname the Explorers is very apropos, Wanderers or Nomads would work too. I’ve been to a few events at the Proving Grounds in Conshohocken, perfect geographical location, still have lots of undeveloped land, easy access (sort of), parking, already a sports oriented destination and no NIMBYS!!!!

  568. Kevin X says:

    Ooops, my bad!!! Thnx Cyoball1!! I just checked the SJP website and they have the game @ Rutgers, not Widener, @ 7p.

    Speaking of scheduling, does Wood have a game this weekend?? I see Christ the King (NY) at Pottsgrove Friday night, then a mention of them playing Wood Saturday night. Seems odd. But the Wood website does not have a football game on the schedule for this weekend, so thinking bye week??

  569. Frank G says:

    @phillyboy Actually I don’t think SJP has more Jersey kids on their team than they did 10 or even 20 years ago–Hobson and the Quinns came from Jersey–but these things get commented on more with the higher profile.

    As a Prep guy I’m not wild about their playing the first three games in locations outside the area. It doesn’t help build connections between the players and the other students. I hope they keep that in mind next year and the years beyond. Maybe settling on a better location than Widener would help. I’ve long thought that some PCL schools in the city (e.g. Roman, West Catholic, NG, and SJP?) could make some joint arrangement to develop a site, but I know how complicated that would be, partly because SJP is not a diocesan school.

    Just saw that St. John’s (DC) got $15 million from an alumnus a few years ago to support their football team.That helps explain why their QB is from Hawaii and why the team is flying around the country–they’re in Texas this week. And I think the whole idea of IMG is wrong. No matter how athletically promising a kid is, to send him to a sports academy that has a high school within it rather than to a high school with a good sports program is almost never in that kid’s long-term interest.

  570. cyoball1 says:

    @phillyboy Widener wouldn’t move the game to 7 pm time slot. Would only host at 8pm.
    ESPN needed the game to start at 7pm. Apparently they couldn’t find a field that would accommodate on short notice.

  571. Kevin X says:

    @ phillyboy

    If you’re referring to SJP’s upcoming game against IMG, it is at Widener. It will also be broadcast live on ESPN 2.

    Last week’s game was part of one of those Showcase events hosted by Rutgers:

    With that said, think SJP could work with Villanova, another Catholic school, and have their home games there. I believe SJP use to have an annual Thanksgiving game with Malvern Prep there before they entered the PIAA and playoffs. Think there is actually a PCL Blue game there this Saturday night, for whatever reason.

  572. phillyboy says:

    What’s up with St. Joe’s Prep playing their home games at Rutgers University? Piscataway NJ is about a 150 mile round trip from Philadelphia; between tolls, wear and tear on the car, time and cost of admission/parking — not happening. Prep is enamored with New Jersey or something, why don’t they just relocate to Cherry Hill and get it over with? Or better yet, Mt. Laurel or Medford — the exurb du jour. Then they could play Don Bosco or Bergen Catholic in the NJ non-public state final each year. Honestly wanted to see the Hawks take out this fabricated quasi national all star team. phillyboy was so going to be there, oh well.

  573. New2PA says:

    If Pine-RIchland wins WPIAL 6A, it will be Coach K and crews best coaching job yet. They have a complete rebuild on the OL and up the middle defense.

    Defensively, they are looking to replace 4 FBS and FCS kids (Katic, Kristofic, Dorundo, King) up the middle along with a really good HS player in Anthony Cerminara with Spencer King (Jr and Tyler King’s little brother) and Nevin Novistki (Sr and first year starter) at DT’s and Josh Rechenberg (another Sr first year starter) and Luke Miller (Jr, first year defensive starter). They have very talented DE’s Trent Miller and Miguel Jackson to lean on. But those two are going both ways because of the depleted OL. The secondary returns Meckler and Boyd paired with first year player Levi Wentz at one corner and Seth Bolin (Sr, first year starter) at the other. Ryan Geyer and Caden Schweiger also play a ton. With all that turnover, they have been exceptional. They are small up front compared to the last couple years, and we will see how they do against Seneca Valley and NA (competent run oriented offenses) but they have been very very good thus far. Also, one thing I have noticed is Coach K’s use of situational substitution. The definitely have a nickle or dime package and seem to dial up crazy pressure every week.

    Offensively, its like night and day from last year. The run game accounts for very little of the offense this year, with big passing really picking up the slack. Cole Spencer (Jr) is the next P-R QB after DiNucci and Jurkovec and is on pace for a bigger 11th grade year passing than either of those two. He’s short (5’10”) but a natural passer and his improved confidence is really showing this year. Much more comfortable in the pocket. Also, the gamble last year playing young skill is really paying off. People have scoffed, but this group of WR’s is on pace to be the best they’ve every hard. Eli Jochem (Jr) is leading the way at the slot. 4 TD’s in 3 games. He’s different than the slot kids P-R has had before in that he’s long and has great speed to go along with great hands. Outside is D’Avay Johnson who is a big possession type WR with excellent hands and body control who defenses have double with CB and S because of an effective fade game. Luke Miller is an H back type player that makes their quick game go with his blocking and is sneaky fast. The 4th WR is Seth Bolin who provides a reliable option and is also a solid blocker. And then you have Luke Meckler in the backfrield who had 1200 yards this year and is a legitimate sub 4.5 kid, The most obvious difference with all these skill kids is their size – all the starting WR’s are at least 6′ and 170 #’s. Really big for HS kids, If the OL can come together in the next few weeks, the could be lethal offensively. But that’s a big if. From what I’ve seen they have some work to do to be consistent in the pass game and a average in the run game.

    I’ve seen PCC play in person and its really hard to explain how average to bad they are on offense. The can’t pass the ball at all and the run game is 100% broken plays with their fast backs. In 3 short years they went from being solid if not spectacular to looking pretty rag-tag. Defensively its another story. They really bring it and get after the offense. The big question mark is what will happen when a competent team spreads them out? They’ve been mercy ruled the last 3 meetings by P-R doing just that. We’ll see if that holds this year. I personally doubt it unless P-R’s OL steps up, but you never know.

    To me, NA looks the most well rounded and solid. They need to stay healthy and maybe find a little more of a passing game with Colella. If so, they will be a tough out. But as we saw this past Friday versus PCC, the are also offensively challenged at times.

  574. Frank G says:

    @Jeff H and Kevin X

    La Sallle being better is good for them, for SJP, and for the PCL, especially since Wood seems weaker. It’s tough to win two games in one season against your prime rival. In most recent years one of the two games each year between SJP and LaSalle has been close–with LaSalle pulling off the big upset in 2015. And if a game is played in really bad weather, as last year’s championship game was, it makes an upset more possible.

    Still, there’s a huge difference between the teams SJP has been playing and the teams LaSalle has been playing. I thought St. John’s looked much better than Marietta, but they made a couple of key early errors–the weather was almost certainly a factor in one–and the Prep made fewer mistakes than against Marietta, maybe because the Marietta game was their opener. If they come out of these first three games without injuries to their top seven or eight players (McCord, Harrison, Burrell, Hagans, Trotter, Johnson, and Leneghan) I would expect a 2-3 touchdown win on the 28th.

  575. Jeff H says:

    @D3 Mike – I’m from the WPIAL so I’ll add a little Western perspective to your comments

    6A – Pine Richland is the favorite to win their 3rd straight district title, NA and PCC have very good defenses, as their game last week suggests, but their offenses are mediocre, appears PR is the most balanced team and the favorite again. I agree with Kevin X about LaSalle, have only seen some video of them but I think they may be the biggest challengers in PA to SJP, could this be a repeat of 2015 when LaSalle loses in regular season and upsets them in the district playoffs, I doubt it, but LaSalle might be the only team in the state that has a punchers chance against SJP this year.

    5A – agree with you that whoever emerges from the WPIAL will be the favorite to win in Hershey, WPIAL 5A is loaded this year with several quality teams, winner will likely play Wood in the “western” semi-finals like Penn Hills did last year, I like the D3 champ chances of getting to Hershey, at this point appears Warwick and Cocalico are the favorites in D3

    4A – agree most of the state is down in 4A this year, and the winner of the TJ vs. Erie Prep quarterfinal game will be the favorite to win in Hershey, as I stated last week I don’t think there’s anyone in the WPIAL who will challenge TJ this year, they beat 2nd ranked Belle Vernon last week 34-7, time will tell if they can finally get over the hurdle and beat ECP after losing to them 3 yrs in a row in the quarterfinals from 2015-2017.

    3A – see above for TJ, doesn’t appear there’s a 3A team in the WPIAL to challenge Aliquippa, they should be going for their third state title in a row after getting upset 2-0 in 2017 by Quaker Valley in one of the more bizarre WPIAL finals at Heinz Field.

    2A – everyone playing for the runner-up trophy, Washington is the best 2A team in the WPIAL, the only question is whether SoCol will mercy rule all their opponents like Steel Valley did 3 yrs ago.

    1A – no real favorite at this point in the WPIAL, and no dominant teams, if I had to pick a WPIAL winner now I’d take Jeanette, this might be the most wide open class in the state this year, as Farrell is no where near as good as they were last year.

  576. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Mike and Paul

    I have seen LaSalle twice in person and I am quite impressed. MP you could say is down from last years team, and not a great team, but they are still a pretty good team. They could still hang with any 5A team in the state. Anyways, really a moot point how good LaSalle is, b/c as Paul mentioned, ever since the dinosaurs roamed the earth, LaSalle and SJP will meet the second weekend in November and most likely LaSalle will be bounced much too early from the playoffs (even tho in this game last year, they gave Prep all that they could handle). I suggest you guys clear your schedule for Sept. 28th and find your way to Ambler for round one.

  577. JC says:

    Beca certainly has a shot to get through to the final, but the D11 4A playoff has some pitfalls they’ll need to get through. ACC played Parkland tough and always brings it against Beca. Pottsville has got some talent and their only blemish so far is an overtime loss to Wyomissing, which looks much better after their comfortable win over North Schuylkill. And Northwestern Lehigh can really score and I could see them making a game out of anything. Beca is obviously the favorite but it could get interesting.

    Cool to see my alma mater (ES South) make an appearance in the EPA rankings for once, although I personally think Warwick or Cocalico are more deserving of that spot. It’s been a while since they’ve beaten rival Stroudsburg. If they can get that monkey off their back this week, I’ll be more comfortable in their potential to get past Southern Lehigh (really the only significant challenger in the D11/D2 subregional right now).

  578. D3 Mike says:

    What a wild weekend. We had a 6-2 slugfest to go along with a number of pedigreed programs getting blown out. Let’s try to make some sense of what’s going on in the East. Please chime in with insights, especially on the teams in your district.

    6A – Great rebound win for St. Joe’s Prep. I can’t see anyone playing with them this year in PA. I’m not buying the La Salle hype just yet – that’s not a great Malvern Prep team they beat as MP graduated almost all of their top talent last year, but we’ll see. D1 appears down a bit from last year, at least if you’re going by the state rankings and marquee wins to date. D3 is going to go down to the wire with Harrisburg, Manheim Township, and Wilson all playing distinctive brands of football. Nice win by Freedom. (Western Note: North Allegheny squeezing past PCC shows that D7 will also be interesting until the end).

    5A – Wow – Manheim Central got abused on Friday. That’s a good Warwick team but MC just seemed out of sorts from the opening whistle. They better figure it out quickly with Wilson on the menu next. With Cocalico in the mix, this is another competitive district race for D3. District 1 has a number of quality teams in 5A although Academy Park struggled with Truman this weekend. I’m interested to see if Wood is deserving of the #1 spot they hold in many rankings – CD East isn’t one of the better teams in the Mid Penn this year and Wood didn’t look overwhelmingly good against them. I think we’re probably looking at the WPIAL winner as the class of 5A until someone proves otherwise.

    4A – What a mess. 3 losses for Imhotep. 2 losses for McDevitt. 2 losses for BC. Is this the year BECAHI breaks thru to the final? District 2 looks to be setting itself up as the district to watch with Valley View, Dallas, and Berwick all undefeated and entering the state rankings. That said, based on scoreboard watching and what I’ve read, it might come down to ECP and Thomas Jefferson in the state quarterfinals this year. The East just seems down in 4A. Speaking of down this year, here’s your bonus alumni stat of the day: Berks Catholic has played in 6 consecutive state semi or state quarterfinals… and has been outscored 79-0 in the first 3 quarters of its first 3 games so far this year. And they still have 6A Boyertown, Malvern Prep, and undefeated Fleetwood and Wyomissing teams on their schedule.

    3A – A lot of movement this week as 4 teams in Pennlive’s top 10 lost, with district 3 making its mark. Wyomissing proves itself a darkhorse in the class with a convincing win over North Schuylkill. They’ve recovered from losing their QB in week 1 but I still think they’re a step behind a Middletown team that shutout McDevitt. Aliquippa looks as good as ever but the race to Hershey thru the East should be a good one. Keep in mind that despite Middletown’s recent dominance, both Wyomissing and Lancaster Catholic (also currently undefeated) won state titles in this class earlier this decade.

    2A – At this point, the only question is whether Southern Columbia outscores its opponents 1000-0 on the year. They still have Montoursville on the schedule but so far they’ve beaten a defending state champion (Hammond), their rival (MC), and now Selinsgrove a combined 160-0. And it’s not just Southern Columbia – the top 10 teams in the state won by an average of 43 points this weekend so there’s a big difference between the haves and the have nots in 2A.

    1A – I honestly couldn’t pick most of these teams out of a line-up. Northwest Area is state-ranked and almost got mercy-ruled. I don’t even know if district 9 plays thru the “East” bracket or not. So I guess I’ll take Old Forge to get torched by whomever escapes the WPIAL. Speaking of, Clairton almost lost their 3rd of the season so it probably won’t be them.

    All in good fun – no one take offense. And remember to contribute about your local team(s), especially if I’m totally off the mark!

  579. paul from philly says:

    Good for the La Salle High team starting out 3-0 against three very good teams (Imhotep, North Penn and Malvern Prep). Only problem is they have to get by St. Joe Prep to move forward and i don’t see that happening.

  580. Kevin X says:

    OK, I’ll bite. Never put much credence into rankings……but I’ll toss out my current Eastern 6A:

    1. SJP
    2. LaSalle
    3. Harrisburg
    4. Downingtown West
    5. Coatesville

    Oh, btw, I don’t think I’ve have ever seen a 4A ranking without Imhotep listed anywhere. Guess when you start the season 0-3 after a cupcake schedule, I suppose you don’t deserve a mention. Of course, I’m sure any of those other 4A teams mentioned would have had their way with those same teams Imhotep lost to.


    NWFan- Freshman class is pretty solid at ECP, but the QB isnt the one to know about. He is an average freshman QB IMO and will probably play another position on Varsity when he gets there, Wakeem Page is the name to remember on that team. Played WR/DB in the first game.

  582. Foleman says:

    Wyomissing/N.Schuykill- 31-14, Wyo was in control from the start, N. Schuykill was throttled on offense for most of the game, their defense had no answer for Wyo’s Wing T, I was looking forward to seeing N. Schuykill’s Linebacker who is going to Penn State, Unfortunately, what I saw was a Division 2 linebacker. He did nothing the entire game.

  583. NW PA says:

    Erie Prep choose to play up at 4A in the old classification. They went down to 3A because they didn’t have the numbers they used to. They could have played up at 5A the last few years and they probably would have won the state title at least two of the last three years. I know everyone dogs them for not playing up but their numbers aren’t that great, the last two years their JV numbers were low. It won’t matter because they will be up in 5A for the next cycle anyways. Haven’t seen them yet but I heard they have a really good freshmen class led by a 6-3 stud quarterback.

  584. Mike A says:

    @ Chief Red Raider

    I was expecting a little closer game but when CV came out and their best player, #23 Max Dell’Anno, was dressed in shorts I know it would be a tough night. Max tweaked an ankle in the McDevitt game and then aggravated it a bit in limited action last week against Central York. Max runs a 4.4 40 and is the cover up at safety in the pass defense. He was sorely missed last night. He also return punts, kickoffs and is their top RB. Resting him was a smart move before the Mid Penn schedule starts.

  585. Kevin X says:

    I should at least make one positive note, and congratulate West Chester Henderson on their win last night. Keep it going guys!!!!

  586. Kevin X says:

    If I saw correctly from last night eastern scores, 3 teams put up 70 points. There was a plethora of goose eggs recorded. A good number mercy rule games, and simply an overall large number of non-competitive games. This may have been the worse night of HS football that I can recall in a long time.

  587. Chief Red Raider says:

    Great to be able to watch the Coatesville/CV game on TV. Coatesville looked a lot better this week. Defense looked great, offense ok. CV should do pretty well in their league. Where’s my pie?

  588. Jay says:

    Dtown West up 21-0 on Neshaminy in the first quarter. The Whippets are for real! Can’t wait for their late season clash with Coatesville. I’ve got ties to both schools so I’ll play neutral and get to enjoy it to the MAX.

  589. phillyboy says:

    Upon working my way back to PA from a long road trip earlier this summer, made it a point to check out Erie, had never seen it before. I must be used to living in Philly or something, goodness gracious, like a lot of towns, seems like its heyday was back in the 1940’s or 50’s. It’s too big to have small town charm and not big enough for a gritty urban experience. Was driving around, saw some old warehouses and a bunch of parking lots with a few larger buildings in the heart. But sheesh, there was nary a heartbeat or edgy neighborhood to be found. Can see why you guys are so sensitive about your beloved Erie Cathedral Prep — it’s all you got. No, I take that back, Presque Isle State Park with the nearby Waldameer Park was pretty cool. And the Golden Corral on the south side of town was right on, I’ll give you that. Anyway, go Erie High or McDowell baby!

  590. Mcd65 says:

    Buddy,Yes 1965 old football fans for sure.

  591. Mcd65 says:

    Buddy,Yes we are both old football followers for sure. BTW I lived on Cherry street in Lansdale for a few years after I married many years ago. On a side note ,I am a fan of Beck and followed the great CB West teams for years in addition to the PCL teams. NP will always be a threat in District 1 IMO.

  592. D3 Mike says:

    Thanks for the link on Middletown vs McDevitt. I will definitely check that out! Two good teams with distinct offenses – I didn’t mention it for the list of top games simply because I don’t think Middletown can keep up and there are so many close match ups this week but I hope I’m wrong (about Middletown). I love their wing-t variant.

    Jeff I remember when ECP played in 4A (when it was 4 classes). Were they playing up then or did they have a bigger enrollment?

  593. Jeff H. says:

    @NW PA – the reason people make a big deal about ECP is they are the three time defending 4A champ, if McDowell was competing for state titles every year like Prep there would be more talk about their recruiting and raiding Erie High’s roster. I do agree with you that most fans make a much bigger deal of public school kids transferring to private schools than vice versa, no one seems to talk about any of the kids transferring from a private to a public school.

    I don’t have any problems with ECP or their so-called recruiting, my only beef is they should be playing in 5A or even 6A and not dominating a bunch of smaller schools in 4A (they have the 2nd largest enrollment of any school in 4A), they are one of the premier programs in the state and it’s a joke they continue to play at 4A, hopefully next year they move up to 5A where they belong.

  594. Kevin X says:

    If any of you guys are into the streaming thing, tonight’s Middletown/Bishop McDevitt (D3) game is being shown on the app. Also you can watch it on the big screen if you have a Roku TV or Roku streaming device (and probably other devices). Just go to the main Roku Channel, and Stadium is one of the channels that is included in the Roku Channel package, or if you have/use Pluto TV, Stadium is channel 491 on Pluto. The Stadium app/channel streams for free various nationwide Thursday and Friday night HS football games throughout the season. Just so happens that they are featuring some south central PA action tonight.

    North Penn/Pennsbury and DTW/Nesh and the CEC game are all also on tonight……..

  595. Buddy says:

    @ pompous as# ( no handle needed)

    Not crying at all, wondering how LS got all that talent compared to last year.

    Mcd65 seemed to have answered it .

    You won’t “stoop” that low because you CAN’T! ( well, personally you can).

    BTW, within their own realm ( schools WITH boundaries), NP is relevant every year.

    Note: @ Mcd65, is that the year you graduated? If so, we are “brothers from a different mother”.

  596. Jeff H. says:

    @ Sausman – I would vote for PCC vs. NA to be included on the list of top 10 games in the state this week, I personally think PCC is overrated and I like NA in a slug-fest 20-10, PCC has a surprising number of players who go both ways for a school of their size and tradition and I think NA’s depth wears them down in the 2nd half, I would argue PCC is as overrated as some of the D3 guys think Manheim Central is in 5A, there’s no way PCC is a top 5 team in the state this year, they may be only the 3rd best team in the WPIAL in 6A behind NA and PR.

    I don’t think TJ vs. Belle Vernon makes the cut, and I’m a WPIAL guy, I like TJ by 3 scores, don’t see anyone challenging them in the WPIAL this year in 4A. . .

    ECP vs. McKeesport is also an intriguing game, as Erie makes the 2hr drive down I-79 to George Smith stadium, I think this will be a competitive game but I like ECP by 2 scores, I’ll say 34-21

    D3 guys have already noted a couple of big games, I like Manheim in a defensive struggle against CD, and I still like Warwick’s chances at home against MC, although as D3 Commish noted the loss of all state receiver Terry Glass is a big blow

  597. CYOBall1 says:

    @Buddy LaSalle whoops up on NP and you take to a message board to cry about it. Outside of 1 season NP hasn’t been relevant in over a decade. Get over it.

  598. cyoball1 says:

    @Buddy of course half of LaSalles team is from out of district they’re a private school. I didn’t make a mistake I meant NP. And I won’t stoop low enough to name names.

  599. D3 Mike says:

    I think much of the public/private angst depends on the language everyone uses and what people envision when they hear “recruit” or “transfer”.

    • A kid can play in a public program K-8 then go to the area private school down the street.

    • A kid can play in a private school in 10th and go to a different private school in 11th.

    • A kid’s parents can move so that they go from one public to a different public.

    • A kid could play in public in 10th and transfer into a private in 11th

    Those scenarios are operationally the same but different people will view each move distinctly, depending on the player motivation, how far the family moves, the strength of the two programs involved, whether 1 of the 2 is a private school, the grade in which the move takes place, the geographic area covered by the schools involved, and most humorously, whether a coach “recruited” the player (as if elite players don’t know where they can best play, win, and excel).

    Here in Berks the same elite public programs criticizing Berks Catholic have received quite a few of what I would consider key “transfers”, themselves over the years, but again, it all depends on the definition used and the scale of the problem.

    They really need to expand the point/success system. Obviously the privates have a bigger advantage because of a lower barrier to entry but the top public schools enjoy their fair share of transfers, too.

  600. Buddy says:

    ‘fraid you have a typo there CYO. Your second line you have “NP’s”, you meant “LS’s” I’m sure .

    No thang. Common error for the ill-informed.

  601. NW PA says:

    Erie Prep had one year-last year-where transfers helped them yet people seem to treat them as major offenders. They got one guy who doesn’t start this year and before last season no one transferred who helped them in any way. Erie McDowell has taken the best players from Erie High the last 3 seasons and it’s been all over the news here but no one says a peep outside of Erie. The worst part is they somehow got playoff waivers by concocting some BS tale of woe. I said it before and I’ll say it again Erie isn’t a big town and these kids live no more than a ten minute drive from where they used to live. I could care less but don’t pass the rule and then not enforce it. Any kid can transfer into a public school and get a playoff waiver they just don’t want them transferring to private schools.

  602. Mcd65 says:

    Buddy ,LaSalle didn’t have any transfers that Im aware of. I believe they are much improved by the return of their QB who missed all but one game last year due to injury ,and the maturing of their sophomore RB who started last year. In fact they were very young overall last year. As transfers go two stand out from the PCL to their public schools. Peaker from McDevitt to Northeast and Santiago from Wood to Tennant. Both of these RBs were PCl rushing leaders as Juniors.

  603. CYOBall1 says:

    @Buddy i suppose LaSalles recruiting class was better than NP recruiting class.
    Half of NP’s roster is from out of district. Hypocrisy at its finest.

  604. mark d says:

    Any other d2 guys out thier ? what is wrong with West Scranton 2 big losses thier just to much talent on that team to be getting beat like that!This week they have Valley View so things are not looking up .is it injury lack on numbers they were picked to be a player in the AAAA race ?
    @kevinx Riverside Lakeland should be a real fun game to watch !!! should be passes flying everywhere

  605. Foleman says:

    I believe the new transfer rules will definitely put a damper on kids transferring into powerhouse football programs, especially the smaller schools. Erie Cathedral Prep had 1 kid transfer in this year and he is not eligible to play in the playoffs, they also had 1 kid transfer out Marrick Bauer, whose brother is a linebacker at Notre Dame. Berks Catholic had 2 kids ruled ineligible and neither are at the school, 1 kid transferred to Malvern Prep, the other player is at a school in Va. McDevitt also had a player that was ruled ineligible. St. Joe Prep and LaSalle don’t have many kids transfer in so the transfer rule wont affect them.

  606. Buddy says:

    How does LaSalle go from merely an average team, at best, last year to a state power this year?

    I think they will give Prep a game , don’t think they’ll win though. Great recruiting year?

    NP isn’t as bad as they looked in that game with LS, but LS was as good as they looked.

    Turnovers ( or lack thereof on NP), would have made it closer, but NP would not have won if they had no turnovers.

    Curious minds wanna know.

  607. D3 Mike says:

    So many great games on Friday! IMO these early season non-league weekends really are the best action until the later rounds of the district playoffs.

    Middletown, Wyomissing, North Schuylkill, and NDGP all with tough match ups that will tell us a lot about the pecking order in AAA on this side of the state. Could see 3 of the 4 fall this weekend (and Scranton Prep already lost).

    Also not sure if this one was mentioned yet (I jumped the gun last week) but Manheim Central vs Warwick is this week’s televised game on PCN and features two state ranked AAAAA teams.

    There’s also Prep and St. John’s.

  608. Kmac says:


    As an old timer and easing slowly back from all of our great common H S F interest to some degree, your list looks solid to me.

    I especially like the poetic license with the Cathedral Prep title.

    What is still nice is that you can sometimes get an exciting game out there not between two powerhouses, but just two perhaps evenly-balanced programs.

    As I travel far shorter and less frequent now, at least I HOPE that the line above is true! We all know the excitement of finely skilled and managed games and players.

  609. Kevin X says:

    These first two games looked a lot more interesting before the season started, but still may crack your “Top 10”

    Wilson WL @ Spring-Ford. These guys played some really good games the past 3 years. Maybe they’ll make it 4 for 4??

    Malvern Prep @ LaSalle. LaSalle looked like a well oiled machine in mid to late season form this past Friday against North Penn. Malvern Prep tho not so much, as they lost a lot to graduation from last years really good team. Granted, it was their first game and against a pretty good MD school/team. Will they rebound??? Hopefully it will still be worth the drive down 309 Saturday afternoon……

    ……….and one from up in the real Great Northeast, Riverside @ Lakeland. Some smaller school love for you.

  610. sausmann9 says:

    Here are three more games to be decided on whether worthy enough to make a Pick’ems list of 10.

    Pitt Central Catholic v North Allegheny (both 2-0 and nasty rivals)
    Thomas Jefferson v Belle Vernon (both 2-0 as well)
    Bshop McDevitt v Middletown

    what do you all think???

  611. sausmann9 says:

    Alright guys (and gals if any out there) after dropping the ball the last two weekends on getting this together and having some fun, I’m trying to find 10 of the top PIAA games for this weekend; doesn’t matter what part of the state as long as the game seems a good one. Here are a few options that could be part of a Pick Ems for the weekend. if we can’t find 10 I’d rather drop to eight or six instead of filling the list with crappy matchups.

    1. North Schuylkill v Wyomissing Area
    2. Dowingtown West v Neshaminy
    3. Coatesville v Cumberland Valley
    4. Central Dauphin v Manheim Twsp
    5. Erie Cathedral Transfer Prep v Mckeesport
    6. Bethlehem Catholic v Liberty (this one will get nasty this season, lots of sh!t going down b/n these two teams in summer)
    7. Freedom v Parkland
    8. Allentown Central Catholic v Nazareth

    Please chime in, which games should stay on a list and which should go. I’m cool if we end up with a “Pick Six” contest of games, just start chopping away.

  612. Mike says:

    @ Matt… I’ll let you know after Malvern and Northeast games

  613. ECL/METRO FAN says: forum hasn’t been working since late last season. It sat idle all summer.

  614. Matt says:

    @Mike….do you think Bethlehem Catholic gets Yep this year and gets to finals?? If Teps offense isn’t that great maybe Beca gets them this year?

  615. JC says:

    @D3 Mike: I don’t normally care about the rankings since it’s often impossible to compare teams until the playoffs come round, but I agree, ranking Coatesville above Harrisburg at this juncture is pretty much indefensible. Hopefully that was just an oversight and will be corrected.

  616. Mike says:

    Imhotep offense isn’t very good this year and will lose in the finals again

  617. Kevin X says:

    The hilarious thing with all of these rankings, be it locally, regionally or statewide, is that Coatesville is currently sitting at 32 out of 33 teams in the District One 6A rankings, the only rankings/ratings that actually really mean something and matter!!!!

    (OK, settle down peeps)………..and only after week 10 🙂

  618. Mike A says:


    also… for the whole state

  619. District 3 Commish says:

    D3 Mike-

    I agree with you on rankings and the prep work that goes into forming those opinions. I put a lot of time into the LL & Berks leagues first and Mid Penn next and I mostly focus on the big schools. I also have reliable input from the Coatesville / Downingtown teams but do not see them regularly. I doubt there are any “statewide” people that are more informed in this area. Doesn’t mean my opinions are correct but at least I have seen these teams and talked to coaches and individuals connected to the teams.

    Manheim Central is the most overrated team in the state. They can not stop the run and have won both games due to major mistakes by Susquehanna Township and Hempfield. Central is at Warwick and Wilson the next two weeks. If they win these games then I am completely wrong. No way anyone ranking them 2nd in the state could watch those games and say that unless 5A is that horrible this year.

    Same with Berks Catholic. Should have lost to Exeter and was completely dominated by CD this week.

    I agree with you on Township and this week CD comes to Township. This will be a great barometer of 6A as Wilson and CD have already played. If CD beats Township it will solidify my opinion that they are a finesse team and can’t handle the power game of CD & Wilson who they play in week 6.

    Coatesville at CV this week. Not sure which way to go here and who would have thought that a month ago. I believe Ortega has been exposed with both of the Young brothers gone. He can’t get the edge without a back to get all the attention.

    Wilson at Spring Ford this week. Wilson has completely dominated the run game against CD & Mifflin. Their pass defense will be tested against Spring Ford and their wacky coach this week.
    BTW….. Wilson was picked 3rd in LL Section 1 by Lancaster Online and Pennlive

    Warwick took a major hit with the loss of their speedy wideout Trey Glass. He re-injured the same knee and will miss the rest of the year. Great kid and great player.

  620. New2PA says:

    D3 Mike – you mentioned a western PA version of this forum? Do you know if it still exists? I can’t find it.

  621. Brian says:

    That steel valley team was impressive. I was there when they demolished southern. That year was this groups freshman year. Not to take anything away from steel valley because they were unstoppable but there’s no way a bunch of freshmen no matter how good southern was when this core were freshmen they weren’t going to compete with the senior division 1 recruits that steel valley had. The sca freshmen looked like deer in headlights. It was an accomplishment they made it to Hershey that year. Southern wasn’t beaten that bad many times in their history.

  622. D3 Mike says:

    I don’t usually care much about rankings but this week’s are criminal!!! lol

    Harrisburg played in the 6A final, beat Coatesville last week, lost to the #1 team in Ohio this week and dropped from the Top 5 … below a Coatesville team they already beat? Are these done by a power ranking algorithm or an actual human? There are others that are way off IMO.

    I feel like this forum (and the western PA one) could crowdsource these rankings better than the writers who do most of them. It’s always the same teams as the year before – no one can follow the player movements statewide close enough to be very accurate. If they could, they would have never had Berks Catholic as a top 5 team in the state (and ahead of McDevitt? Yikes). … but everyone in the Reading area certainly had in right from day 1.

    Tough loss for Prep and it doesn’t get any easier this week.

    P.S. I’d love for any of the D3 folks to explain the Manheim Township lovefest…

  623. Matt says:

    @Jack….thanks…..that Steel Valley team was a machine as well.

  624. Jack1234 says:

    @matt steel valley, the 2016 2A champs, mercy ruled every opponent including SC

  625. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Went to see Southern play MCA. Southern is a machine. They could have scored alot more but like I said before Roth will not run up the score. They really can pack the people in that stadium and the food is pretty damm good as well. Well worth the trip.

  626. Matt says:

    Southern not only will probably run the table they might mercy rule every opponent. 36-0 against Hammond and 48-0 against MCA. Those could be the toughest opponents all year. Remember they mercy ruled last two state championship games as well. Has a team ever mercy ruled every opponent?? I though MCA would give them a better game than Hammond after last week

  627. Buddy says:

    SJP ain’t playing tonite are they? I thought it was Sat. nite on ESPN?

    Yeah, NP pass defense is non-existent. So they be in trouble tonite against LS.

    But from what I see in their schedule, they should run the table after tonite ( as usual).

    Come playoff time, different story.

  628. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H, Sausmann, et al

    I did not watch the Katy/NS game last night, but did record it. Will catch it one of these future boring weekday evenings. Recording the SJP game tonight as well, as going to check out the LaSalle/NP game in person (guessing this is one of Sausmann’s top 10 games, or should be). Actually watched the replay of the NP/Nesh game last night in my scouting prep 🙂 (watched the ‘Tep/LaS replay earlier in the week). Hoping for a competitive game, believe Lasalle will take this one. No way, no how, NP is going to put up 55 again tonight. Game should be broadcast live via streaming on the North Penn Television Network on You Tube.

    An honorable mention for Sausmann is right down the road this evening, as D-Town West travels up and over to CB South. Great night ahead, get out and support!!!

  629. Jeff H. says:

    @Sausmann9 – really big 5A game tonight in the WPIAL when Gateway travels to Harrison City to take on archival Penn Trafford. These are 2 of the top 3 5A teams in the WPIAL (the other is Peters Township), and they of course met for the 5A title in 2017, with Gateway winning a close, hard fought game at Heinz. I saw Gateway dominate Mt Lebanon last week, their team speed is tremendous, they look an awful lot like the Penn Hills team from last year that ran the table, and Derrick Davis may be the best player in the state outside of Julian Fleming, he’s that good, IMO they are the legit #1 5A statewide, but Penn Trafford will definitely be a big challenge.

    Speaking of Peters Township they host Upper St Clair tonight in another good 5A match up, USC got off to a good start last week under new coach Mike Junko who replaced legendary Jim Render, beating defending WPIAL 4A champ South Fayette 27-13, but I’ll take Peters at home, I’ll say 28-17.

    @ Kevin X – I watched a lot of that Katy vs. North Shore game last night, 2 excellent teams that are on a different level than we are, with the possible exception of SJP, great comeback win for Katy

    @D3 Mike – you certainly follow D3 a lot closer than I do, but I like Warwick’s chances tonight against MC, I’ll take Warwick in a high scoring affair 35-28, think Warwick and Cocalico are the 2 biggest challengers to MC repeating as district champ. I do agree with you that Harrisburg is going to have their hands full with a great Hoban team and think you pegged the final score about right.

  630. Kevin X says:

    Some big boy Texas HS football (Katy v. North Shore) tonight @ 8p on ESPN U

    St. Joe Prep v. Marietta (GA) tomorrow night @ 8p also on ESPN U

    Interesting D1 game tonight as well, West Chester East @ Unionville. Perfect evening for some football (remember this when you’re out at a game come November :))

  631. mark d says:

    North Pocono i felt was under rated going in to the season they should be able to play with anyone in the conference.Valley View look very strong in it opener but hard to evaluate against a team who young and down a little this year.Dunmore could have 3 to 4 loses this year with thier schedule so Riverside might have a shot, i know their going to be fun to watch they will probably throw the ball more than run it this year.Scranton Prep and Wyoming Area huge game i leaning toward Wyoming Area big up front and a very good looking QB,but in AAA in D2 dont sleep on Lakeland D1 Qb and lots and lots of speed

  632. sausmann9 says:

    hey all – i’m currently getting a list of top 10 PA games for this weeekend together as we type. Keep the picks coming in and if the games are stout, they make the list.

    D3Mike – excellent picks, if you don’t mind I’ll use three of the four and keep your picks as well (if you want)

    I’ll list five or six other games and people just chime in and let me know if we keep it on the list or replace it.

    be back soon, keep the good games of this weekend coming in w/ picks.

  633. Neutral Observer says:

    @ District 2 folks:

    Thoughts on North Pocono? Are they really as good as last week’s win over West Scranton makes them look? Or is West that far down this year? Will NP be any kind of a challenge to Valley View in District 2 4A?

    Thoughts on Scranton Prep? I heard that the offense didn’t look especially great against Dunmore. Without O’Dell’s KR and PR for TDs, Dunmore would have pulled out the upset. This week’s game against Wyoming Area is probably going to reveal who will ultimately win D2 3A.

    Riverside looks like they’re going to score some points this year. I’m already psyched for Old Forge @ Riverside on 10/11. Any chance they challenge Dunmore in 2A? I don’t know what to make of Dunmore’s close loss to Prep. Either Prep is nowhere near the team they were the last few years, or Dunmore is a heck of a lot better.

  634. The Joneses says:

    @D3 Mike.. Well said.

  635. D3 Mike says:

    @ Buddy I’ll stick mostly to D3 state-ranked / rivalry games since I’m slightly less likely to embarrass myself on the picks:

    Manheim Central (5A #2) over Warwick (5A #9), 34-20
    Last year’s 27-20 MC win was a classic but Warwick has lost half a step from last year.

    Hoban (Ohio #1) over Harrisburg (6A #4), 42-21
    Props to Harrisburg for scheduling this game but Hoban might be even better, offensively, than the Prep team they faced last year.

    Wilson West Lawn (6A TTW) over Governor Mifflin, 28-14
    I’ll be at the 62nd installment of these crosstown rivals. Very interested to see one of the better defenses in D3 (Wilson) go up against sophomore RB Singleton, already the most highly recruited RB in Berks history.

    St. Joe’s Prep (6A #1) over Marietta (Georgia #1), 28-21
    Good to see new coach Roken easing into things… this is more of a PA football is better than Georgia football pick than anything. Lots of D1 talent on the field.

    ** PICK OF THE WEEK **
    Central Dauphin over Berks Catholic (4A #6), 28-7
    Berks Catholic hasn’t lost by more than 18 points since 2012, including losses to state powers Wyomissing (twice), Imhotep, Southern Columbia, Erie Cathedral Prep (twice), Malvern Prep, and Bishop McDevitt. The loss of 29 seniors from last season’s squad will be felt this weekend against a CD team that shut them out 7-0 last year.

  636. Buddy says:

    Games this weekend.

    What do you think?

  637. JC says:

    All of this just makes me more in favor of extending implementation of a success points system. I know they started one, but I’d like to see its impact on the classifications expanded.

  638. Dennis Pascoe says:

    @ D3 Mike You should express your feelings to the PIAA district officials in your locale. You do have points that should be addressed.

  639. irish1 says:

    @ Kevin X………Just from the small amount of info I have heard….sounds like the bleachers for the home side of the field and the turf and lights will be next year.

  640. Tornado Fan says:

    @ Kevin X

    Doesn’t scare me. Since SC beat MCA in the D4 championship the past 2 years, it actually would have done us a favor. If they were in 3A, MCA was in the state playoffs with a shot at Hershey.
    I agree, they probably would have won 3A last year and again this year. But if 3A wasn’t going to be a challenge either, what then is the point of them moving up??

    Per your earlier post – ‘Aliquippa, Imhotep, Becahi, Wood are all playing up this cycle, no reason that SCA couldn’t have played up either.’ IMO the only noble exception voluntarily playing up out of those 4 is Aliquippa. The other 3 should be anyway.

  641. D3 Mike says:

    I’m still not following the logic (perhaps because it’s unbelievably inconsistent) regarding the power public schools and catholic/privates.

    So “some families move to SCA for a better opportunity and that’s ok” (a view I totally agree with) … but if parents send their kid to a catholic school for a better opportunity “those schools should be required to play up?” How is it possible that you can’t follow that it’s the same thing, just with a lower barrier to entry? The whole recruiting thing is a red herring. The kids and parents know who wins and who sends kids D1 and the hoops to get scholarships. Just say your program was spurned instead of blaming some nefarious assistant coach.

    Frankly, I don’t care all that much – I’d just like some consistency. And for someone else to note the irony that it’s almost always the power publics – the ones that have the transfers, kids moving to the area for football, and more district wealth – who are always the ones complaining about private schools. It’s almost as if they’ve enjoyed inherent advantages for years (see above) and don’t want anyone else to have advantages of their own (which private schools obviously have).

    tl;dr if you think the same public schools excel every year purely due to tradition, coaching, and a superior weight room you’re living in a meritocratic fantasy land. The playing field is tilted in plenty of schools’ favor, and not just the private ones.

  642. Kevin X says:

    @ Dennis: 3A (4A would have been pushing it, especially the later games in the playoffs)

    @ Tornado Fan: Just should of/could of played up to 3A last year and this year. It’s not a permanent commitment. Would not have affected their regular season schedule, and the D4 3A playoffs would still have been a walkover. Last 3 games last year would have been Scranton Prep, Middletown and Aliquippa. Does that scare you??

    @ Brian: Aliquippa and Imhotep are public schools (i kind of call Imhotep and all charter schools hybrids, publicly financed and rules, but privately owned and operated).

    @ Irish: What is the timetable for the PJPII turf and lights?? New bleachers this year, so guess one thing at a time??

  643. Jeff H. says:

    @Eman 35 – have you never heard of schools like Aliquippa and Clairton in the WPIAL, both of them are A schools by enrollment, and they regularly produce D1 prospects on an annual basis, last year Aliquippa had a couple of kids go to Power 5 conferences, and they have another power 5 recruit this year, so it’s not all that unusual for programs that have a long tradition of excellence to churn out D1 talent, even smaller districts. Everyone who follows football statewide knew this group of SoCol seniors were a special class a long time ago, when they won 2A in 2017 most people expected them to run the table and not lose again until after this group of seniors graduated. They have a phenomenal program, Roth is a tremendous coach and by all accounts a class act, I just wish this particular team could play a big school like a Harrisburg or North Penn because I think they would compete very favorably against the big boys. I’ve watched HS football in this state for 40+ years, and I’m convinced this SoCal team could beat the vast majority of 5A and 6A teams in PA this year, and I know a lot of other guys from the Pittsburgh area who follow HS football closely who feel the same way.

    @ Tornado Fan – completely agree MCA will give SoCol a better game this week than Hammond, you guys might be catching them at the right time after playing on national TV, possible letdown in the first half? Still expect SoCol to win by 3-4 scores, but wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s still close at halftime. .

  644. irish1 says:

    @cyo…….I just think with their schedule,it will be tough for Roman to have a winning season. But Judge and Ryan don’t look real strong so who knows. They have speed at receiver and the QB looked like he has potential. It was a weird game on Saturday but it was still a game where PJP was on the verge of having running clock in the second half and seem to fall a sleep. But credit to Roman for hanging in there and fighting back.

  645. Jay M. says:

    Wasn’t surprised to see Coatesville lose to Harrisburg, after all Harrisburg returned a lot of talent from last year in spite of losing Kane Everson. I’m confused why they don’t have a game scheduled for this week, and between that and their schedule, if they should lose even one more game, which I think is likely (Dtown West), I think they’re already looking at a possible road game in the first round of the D1 playoffs. Certainly the second round, if they should make it.

    On to Dtown West… what an incredibly impressive performance. And even more so considering they have some pretty good players shelved for the year with injuries. But having a healthy Will Howard all season, and their young core gelling together, will propel them to at least a co-share of the ChesMont crowb, if not outright, and a deep run in the playoffs.

    Love SJP early schedule, what a test. Also, off topic from PA HSFB, but check out St. John’s (MD) schedule… in four weeks they play SJP, Duncanville TX, IMG Academy, and Mater Dei. That is some seriously tough opposition!!

  646. Brian says:

    Give me some names then Eman. I’d love to have this discussion.

  647. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Just to say what class do the critics of Southern Columbia think they should play? What I like about Southern Columbia is by the third quarter the subs are in giving everybody a chance to play instead of running up the score which Roth will not do.

  648. PSU88 says:

    So I knew that Southern would be good this year but I thought it would take a few weeks for them to firing on all cylinders. I do not feel that any team will score on their first defense. They are the most technically sound tackling team I have ever seen. They will overpower every team in the PHAC. Do u think any teams may forfeit their game with Southern? A few years ago, Shik did not play most of their starters during a preseason scrimmage.

  649. Brian says:

    They don’t have this type of talent year in and year out. This is a once in a lifetime team because this senior class is by far the most athletic and talented class in school history. Yes they’ve won 9 state titles. 4 were during Henry hynoskis year. The only other division 1 recruit up until now. 2 more were this groups. The first one in 94 was a product of the seniors group of hard work paying off in the previous years. The first one in AA in 2014 was a product of a heavy senior class. They win because they are a true team in every aspect. They are coached well and Roth gets the best out of them. They’re fundamentally sound and disciplined. You’re right it’s not typical for a small school to have that much talent and it won’t come around again. There are many names of players that are brothers of formers players, sons of players in the 90s, and yes some families have moved from neighbor school for a better opportunity. Everyone else you mentioned is a private school and should play up because they can recruit. I’ve said it before those schools should play their own state title. 6 classes, 4 public, 2 private.

  650. District 3 Commish says:

    Mark D – YES

  651. Brian says:

    They don’t have this type of talent year in and year out. This is a once in a lifetime team because this senior class is by far the most athletic and talented class in school history. Yes they’ve won 9 state titles. 4 were during Henry hynoskis year. The only other division 1 recruit up until now. 2 more were this groups. The first one in 94 was a product of the seniors group of hard work paying off in the previous years. The first one in AA in 2014 was a product of a heavy senior class. They win because they are a true team in every aspect. They are coached well and Roth gets the best out of them. They’re fundamentally sound and disciplined. You’re right it’s not typical for a small school to have that much talent and it won’t come around again. There are many names of players that are brothers of formers players, sons of players in the 90s, and yes some families have moved from neighbor school for a better opportunity.

  652. Tornado Fan says:

    Should be no surprise to anyone SC won’t be touched this year. They are always good but for the past 3 years, everyone knew this team would be special. They were very impressive against Hammond and solid at every position. Agree with Brian, Mt. Carmel and Shamokin areas have been going downhill for a while. Everyone who doesn’t completely leave the area moves to Elysburg and I can’t really blame them. You often you see the children of former standout athletes from MCA/Shamokin eg Garcia, Delbo, Wilk, Tillett not to mention Hynoski ending up on the SCA roster. I try to not to think of the success MCA might have had if the area hasn’t become what it has and not lost all this talent to over the mountain. As much as it pains me to see a rival with all this success, its good for the region, so I was happy to see them come out with a win. MCA has played SC tougher than anyone so don’t be surprised if they give SC a better game than Hammond this week.

    Also, I see no need for them to move up. They are a great program but aren’t going to be this good every year. MCA played up for years to AAA and it was a lot more fun winning state championships in AA than getting knocked out of the playoffs in AAA. There’s no shame in playing in the class you’re supposed to be in.

  653. Cyoball1 says:

    Irish, why won’t Roman win many games this season?

  654. Dave says:

    It doesn’t come as a surprise that Southern is this good of a team. I remember reading 4 years ago, that Coach Roth stated that there was an incredibly talented group of 8th graders coming up. The following year 7 of those freshmen were starters and they went to, but lost, the state championship. They haven’t lost since.

  655. Eman35 says:

    Brian says this is a once in a lifetime team lol You won nine state titles that’s a lot of one and a lifetime teams. When I was watching the game they said that Southern Columbia has a possibility of five D1 players on the team. How does that happen to a football team in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania. I don’t need proof I have eyes It is hard enough to get one D1 player on a normal team most team get one every 10 years you have five in a school district That is in the second smallest class in the state how does that happen. I’m not Knocking Southern Columbia they look unbelievable on Sunday One of the best high school performances I’ve seen from a team. It Just seems odd to have that much talent year in and out on a team With that small of a school district.

  656. Brian says:

    Foleman, I won’t argue the point that people want their kids to play for a successful program, but that doesn’t mean it’s recruiting. First and foremost, the surrounding areas of southern school district, i.e. mt Carmel and Shamokin have been declining for many years now. The parents that played for those schools have moved into the southern school districts so that their kids can play for a successful program. Not recruiting.

  657. irish1 says:

    I was at the PJP game on Saturday and have seen many of their games. That is a game that you just cant lose. There is no excuse for it. I think the coaching staff has done a nice job building the program. I do think they are a program that still needs to learn how to win and how to handle success. A program that knows how to do those two things would not lose a game like that on Saturday. Roman has some talent and I actually think they showed more energy even being down 4 scores. That being said I dont see Roman winning many games this year. This would have been a great start to the season for PJP in many ways. i know everyone loves to run the spread these days but when you have to play several key players both ways like PJP has to do the spread leads to games dragging out and players wearing down at times. The game on Saturday was well on its way to 3 1/2 hrs. I think PJP will rebound and go on to have a good year,just a shame to give a game away. With many of the top players being seniors and the bench looking somewhat thin the coaches will have to go out and bring in some talent and also continue to keep the numbers up. With lights and turf on the way the energy should hopefully remain high around the program.

  658. Kevin X says:

    I would have been more than willing to give Southern Columbia a ton of respect a year and half ago when they had the opportunity to play up to 3A, or really show some moxie and run with the big dogs and play up in 4A. Instead they chose to stand pat in 2A (and I understand that they had every right to remain in 2A), knowing that, or at least had a very good idea, that they would dominate 2A for the next two year cycle and be able to pad/add to their state championship title record. Aliquippa, Imhotep, Becahi, Wood are all playing up this cycle, no reason that SCA couldn’t have played up either.

  659. Kevin X says:

    Pet peeve of mine of how inconsistent these playoff power ratings (or whatever they are called) are used to determine placement (or inclusion) of district playoffs. Shame you have to consider the scheduling of games, or specific teams, because of it. Like Coach O was alluding to, in District 12, just about everybody is invited to the party (and in many other districts and classifications) regardless of your record or who you have played (win or loose) in the regular season.

  660. mark d says:

    @district 3 commish does that mean the inhoptep Erie central catholic Newman West Catholic and all these other catholic and charter schools that recruit form everywhere are cowards to because they don,t play 6A ?????

  661. Dennis Pascoe says:

    Yes, I would like to see proof on Southern Columbia recruiting you will not find any. Don’t you think PIAA looks at this very closely. They do my friends. I know first hand. This is a once in a lifetime high school team coached by they best in the business.

  662. District 3 Commish says:

    Foleman _

    Great research! You hit it right on the head. The cheating is so obvious in that district. And the cowards are still afraid to play 6A Big fish in a small pond. Cowards!

  663. mark d says:

    SC was a well coached very well prepared football team that let face it beat the crap out of that team i don’t think that team ever got hit like southern was hitting As for beating a German town academy according to ESPN they won the state championship the last 2 years i don’t remember Germamtown doing that Give Southern the respect they deserve

  664. Foleman says:

    Southern Columbia has the best coach and the best staff in Pa. I have watched them several times in person and they run the Wing T to perfection. That being said, I saw a list of the top 300 HS football players in Pa and SC has 13 of them, no other HS is even close to that. The surrounding dozen or so High Schools in that area have 0 top 300 players. What are the odds of this happening? Many aunts and uncles and grandma’s in Elysburg surely have had their nephews move in. I know of several kids here in District 3 that have given fake fake addresses over the years in order to play for a more successful program. 2A? Every 2a playoff opponent will be mercy ruled by halftime.

  665. Brian says:

    Eman, where’s your evidence of recruiting by southern Columbia. I love all the recruiting posts that come up when talking about southerns success. Show proof. This is a once in a lifetime group. Those saying to move up to 5A, that’s just silly. This group graduates this year and they won’t be a super team like they’ve been for the past few years. They will be beatable.

  666. Mcd65 says:

    Great win for SC . They will run the table in AA again this year. Impressive performance on both sides of the ball. I take nothing away from SC ,but that Hammond team wasn’t very good. Yes ,I know they have a couple stud players ,but as a team they didn’t impress at all. Nice win Tigers !!!

  667. Matt says:

    @Kevin, I’m not even a D4 fan or resident. I grew up in and played in D11. But I respect the heck out of Southern. That Hammond team had 2 top 100 Dlineman and Southern will an all new Oline ran all over them. And the tackling was phenomenal. I have watched a lot of football and usually attend state championships yearly even from DC area where I currently live and also follow Northern VA football which produces a ton of talent. That southern team is very good. I’m not saying that they would be underdogs to just prep. Prob to Tep, Erie Prep, and a few others but to play like that against a talented team is impressive. They have possibly 6 D1 seniors on that roster. That’s more than 95 percent of PA teams. Southern has a chance to mercy rule everyone this year.

  668. Kevin X says:

    My goodness, reading these SCA comments, you’d think they just thrashed IMG or SFA. Some perspective, this “state champion” they just beat is the champion of a 10 team independent prep league, in South Carolina. Think the likes of beating Germantown Academy (no offense to GA).

    Did I see that right?? Only be underdogs to SJP???

    With all of that said, nice win, nice game for SCA!!!!

  669. Chesmont says:

    Southern would beat Coatesville, Downingtown West & East by at least two touchdowns.

  670. Torchy says:

    Southern Columbia really knows where to look to find good football players. They are the miniature St Joe’s Prep, SCP, Tep when it comes to recruiting. Impressive victory for the Tigers.

  671. Congratulations southern. Now play st Ignatius says:

    Congratulations now play st Ignatius

  672. Mike Smoll says:

    Was as good of a blocking and tackling clinic as you will see from a High School team. You can have the best athletes in the world but if they don’t block and tackle it’s nothing. They are just wonderfully coached.

  673. Uncle T says:

    Echoing the previous comments- Southern Columbia… just incredible. That was one of the most impressive, technically-elite defensive performances I’ve ever seen at the high school level. Linebackers were literally perfect; defensive backs off the charts; tackling everywhere was textbook and fierce- What a statement game for the program. They look like they’re in week 12/November mode right out of the gate. Thoughts and prayers to 2A.

  674. Matt says:

    Also, it’s tell you something when they double and triple team Fleming and you have five other guys that can make plays and are D1 talent. Fleming just the attention he gets opens up everything else.

  675. Matt says:

    Eman…..they would win 3A and under with ease .. ….play with any top team in 4A and 5A with a decent chance to win and maybe only 6A be underdogs to Prep. Southern hits and tackles as well as any HS team I have ever seen. All game they make the tackles with perfection. If you want to teach kids tackling take video of Southern. i thought garcia killed the one kid from Hammond.

  676. Matt says:

    Watched first half of Southern and Hammond. This Southern team can play with anyone in the state of PA regardless of class…..they wouldnt be favored in only a handful of games (SJ Prep, Tep, Erie Prep, etc) but against a team from SC that won back to back at 3A and has a 25 win streak and winning by 29 at half …wow.

  677. Eman353535 says:

    Also to add to that I have no idea why Southern Columbia doesn’t move up to like 5a They can do it if they want to to.

  678. Eman35 says:

    Watching southern Columbia on tv I love seeing a pa team kicking butt it is good for the state but There is no way Southern Columbia isnt recruiting. How they have that much talent For a small team out of Elysburg pa Can’t be without outside help. They are making this very good southern Carolina team look stupid. I would venture to say that Southern Columbia Could beat any team but st joes prep in the state Regardless of class and size.

  679. FrankG says:

    @ Kmac

    I thin the negatives of beginning the season a week ahead of the Labor Day weekend outweigh the posititives. August should be about establishing the fundamentals, trying players at different positions, evaluating talent, etc. and not about preparing to play team x. Now that we’ve had a few years of starting the regular season at week 0, what do others think?

  680. Kmac says:

    From many of the comments on games posted this week and in the games I attended in person or saw videos of after the fact; the lack of a second scrimmage seemed again apparent. Many had the composure and execution of the old “second scrimmage” than a first game. We should see a great improvement in next weeks games generally. Let’s certainly hope so!

  681. CYOBALL1 says:

    Foleman, they were up 26-0 in the first quarter and the coach was throwing the ball like he was coaching Dan Marino with that lead, and the lack of a kicker was the reason why they lost?
    They lost because they throw the ball for 3 yards instead of running the ball for 3 yards. The first quarter was 50 minutes of actual time. The emphasis seemed to be on padding the QB’s stats rather than putting the game away. Came back to bite them in the A**

  682. CYOBALL1 says:

    Kevin X, not only did they blow the 26 point lead but when they were pouncing all over Roman in the first QTR coaches from PJP were mocking the Roman sideline. I seen multiple coaches look over at Romans sideline and make gestures after scores. Classless act in my opinion.
    Roman was down 26 EARLY in game with plenty of time remaining to mount a comeback given the fact that PJP REFUSES to run the football and chew clock.
    Credit to RC. They NEVER showed any sign of defeat or quit. They hung in there and overcame a huge deficit.

  683. Matt says:

    @Tigerfan… a D11 small school graduate and fan and currently live in DC metro area…..I’m excited watch the game on ESPN. I have much respect for what Southern has done and especially from a small public school. Fleming is a once in a decade type player not just in that region but in the state. He seems like he has the right mentality and string foundation around the talent. He should make noise right away at Ohio State. I’m sure a bunch of Football fans from PA will watch.

  684. Kevin X says:

    @ Tiger Guy

    1. Game is on a Sunday summer afternoon
    2. Game is in South Carolina
    3. People are getting, or already have, Southern Columbia/J. Fleming fatigue

    Honestly, I’d be a lot more interested if they would challenge themselves against a very good, competitve, non D4, PA team/school, ESPN or not.

  685. Foleman says:

    Thought on Berks Catholic/Exeter an incredibly boring, sloppy, penalty filled-(Exeter had 19 penalties) game for 3.5 quarters which was dominated by Exeter, they were up 10-0 but it felt liked 28-0. Then Boom, BC’S Larkin goes 80 yards for TD on a jet sweep, next series, MacFoy goes 50 yards for a TD. Exeter drives down to the 4 yard line and a 4th down pass went in and out of Exeter’s top receivers hands with 30 seconds left. After the game, Exeter’s coach blamed Home cooking on the loss, but in reality, it was his team’s lack of discipline-numerous late hits, offside calls, blatant holding, that cost his team the game.

  686. Foleman says:

    Kevin X, PJP looked like they stopped playing when they were up 26-0, a complete breakdown on defense in the 2nd half, this is on the coaching staff for letting a sure win slip away. I also cant believe they can’t find a kicker, did they not ask any soccer players to tryout for the position? 6 TD’s and they cant kick an extra point, that cost them the game.

  687. Buddy says:

    LaSalle over Tep eh.

    Doubt NP is ready for prime time yet.

  688. phillyboy says:

    Watched the Marietta-Rome game last night on youtube. Yeah, somebody uploaded the whole game, pretty cool. Give Prep props for the ambitious schedule but did they bite off more than they can chew? This Marietta team lookded good — it’s like the high school version of Alabama. They got a plethora of D1 players all over the place. Got a QB that reminds me of Fromm from Georgia, a RB by the name of Vidal who is stout and very strong. Oh yeah, they also have a 5 star TE, considered #1 in the country in his position. Although I’m a dyed-in-the-wool Northerner, I respect what they do down in Georgia, ostensibly there’s big time community support — the public teams can ball. Prep usually has their way against the likes of Northeast and Parkland but this seems to be a major step up in level of competition. Of course, Prep has a very strong team, obviously. Their passing game is sensational and with Burrell at RB it keeps the defenses honest. Should be a very interesting mathcup, IMO the best game in the country next week.

  689. Tiger Guy says:

    Not hardly a word on here about Southern Columbia playing on ESPN. I wonder why. Maybe finally SCA will get positive press. I’m sure Coach Roth will have his team ready to show just what this team has to offer! I’m predicting a good ol’ A_ _ Whoopin!

  690. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Kevin X: I appreciate your response — thanks for the comments. Not sure who State Champion is, or why he jumped into the middle of my comments directed to you — but now I have a hankering for some pie — too early for pumpkin pie?. Anyway, I’m not sure why it looks like C’ville has a bye, but after judging their performance last night, they could use another game to improve or maybe the extra week off will help them out :). But again, they’re high school kids playing a game, so I don’t want to be too critical of the hometown boys.

  691. Uncle T says:

    D-town west 21, Garnet Valley 7 at half.

    West will be a force this year. Speed on both sides of the ball, and a QB who can make any throw. Will be a very competitive game vs. Coatesville this year to say the least.

    Prototypical Garnet Valley team- athletic defense; ground and pound with a few scat backs mixed in, and an option-keeper QB who will get eaten alive by better defenses. They’ll probably steamroll their league again, but until they have a QB who can go through reads, they’ll never be a contender in states.

  692. State Champion says:


    So funny how you and Coatesville Jack shoot your pie hole off when things are going well, then try to slam a poster’s comment about calling you out on a “high school football team’s loss” ……Blahhh

    Nice try, own it and move on, Ortega and company not all you claimed over the year’s ..Really the Young show!! Downingtwn west is now a 13.5 point favorite….Hope CV has an off week, for your sake. Or you will be staring at 0-2.

  693. Kevin X says:

    Hey, welcome back Chief!!! Any signs of BR&B?? Missing your guys Chest-Mont/C’Ville insights. Sorry, no intention of gloating, but some sarcastic jabs for sure!! I was at the game rooting for the Red Raiders. I said this last week about scrimmages, and it can carry over for week 0/1, take these first week games with with a grain of salt. Maybe they’ll turn the tables on H-Burg, like last year, come back and beat THEM in the state semi’s. Who knows, they could run the regular season table from here, or gulp, even go 5-4. With CV beating McDevitt, kind of thinking that might be a slugfest in two weeks. And then the two D-Towns the final two weeks. Playing 3 5A schools and one 4A, like last year, not going to help their power rating points.

    Question……any idea if they had anybody line up for next week?? Or were they OK with a bye week?? Tough missing out on a home date tho and the $$ at the gate.

  694. Kevin X says:

    Pure crazyness. PJP II was steamrolling Roman Catholic 26-0 in first quarter (4 Gray TD passes)……….they proceed to loose 47-46.

  695. Uncle T says:

    @ Kevin X

    I had similar thoughts watching Coatesville. They are still talented and will be a lot better as the season goes on (and they’re not playing teams as good as Harrisburg). But the Young brothers were their MVPs of the last 2 years. They would have lost to Garnet Valley in the D1 final 2 years ago if not for Avery Young being a game-breaking talent, and Aaron Young last year was so underrated for them since they hardly ever had to rely on a running back.

    I have doubts about D-Town East based solely on what I’ve seen from their coaching staff’s game-planning over the past few years. But we’ll see how D-Town West and Garnet Valley do against each other tonight, as the playing field at the top of D1 looks to be more even this year with a Young-less Coatesville.

  696. Chief Red Raider says:

    Hey Kevin X: As a C’ville fan, they definitely are not the all-around team they’ve had the past couple years, but I wouldn’t gloat too much over a high school football team’s loss. Despite the penalties, bad play calling (IMO) — did they forget about Bryant?, missed key turnover (backwards pass), they could have won the game. I do not think they will be state champs, but I think they can run the table with their remaining schedule because they still have a lot of speed and some play makers. With that said, however, at some point they are due to lose to a Downingtown team (CV might beat them too — who knows?)

  697. tnd775 says:

    ryan vs downingtown east.i heard ryan only had 22 kids???

  698. Kevin X says:

    Sorry, rule number one of EPA football forum posting, do not post before one’s morning coffee……

    *Where are all of you Coatesville faithful??

  699. Kevin X says:

    Where are you Coatesville faithfully?? Have not seen a post from you in some time. Now is the time to come out of your hibernation.

    I took a little road trip yesterday back to the stomping grounds, and three quick observations……

    1. Someone forgot to tell all of these so called prognosticators that Aaron Young in now at Rutgers
    2. Still having visions of yellow flags flying all over the place even after a good night’s sleep
    3. The Downingtowns’ are licking their respective chops

  700. Kevin X says:

    Best “free” article that I came across regarding North Penn’s Crawford Stadium renovations……

  701. FridayNightLights says:

    NP announced tonight that it is their final season on the grass. I didn’t hear they were building a new stadium. I thought the proposal was for upgrades to Crawford including turf, snack stands, restrooms. NP looked solid tonight. Ground game was fast and physical. Starting Sophomore RB and FB with three underclassmen starting on a new O line. Work to be done with the QB and defense but an encouraging start.

  702. Jeff H. says:

    @Sausman – I’ll join the party and pick the games you selected

    1) Coatesville over Harrisburg
    2) North Penn over Neshaminy
    3) LaSallle over Imhotep in a close game that could go either way
    4) CD vs, Wilson – I’ll take Wilson at home in another game that’s a toss-up
    5) CV vs. McDevitt – think CV will struggle to be above 500 with their brutal schedule, I’ll take McDevitt
    6) Southern Columbia vs. Hammond – Hammond is likely the best team they’ll play all yr, I’ll take SC, should be a very competitive game
    7) Penn Hills vs. PR – I’ll take PR, Penn Hills pretty young and lots of new starters and will be hampered by not having their head coach
    8) Downingtown West vs. Garnet Valley – Dwest in another good match up
    9) Mt Lebo vs. Gateway – Gateway is loaded and Derrick Davis is a stud, he impressed me greatly when I saw him several times as a freshman a few years ago, they don’t beat PT at Heinz in 2017 without him, Palko might take Lebo back to their glory days, give him a few years and think he’ll have the Blue Devils back at Heinz Field, Gateway has too many weapons for them in this game
    10) Northhamptom vs. Parkland – don’t know much about Northhampton so have to go with Parkland
    11) Aliquippa at Clairton, both ranked #1 in the WPIAL in their respective classes, I’ll take Aliquippa on the road in a close one

    @ Kevin X – know this has been discussed numerous times in the past on this board, when is North Penn finally going to install turf? You’d think having all their home playoff games moved due to field conditions would prompt the school board or football boosters to figure out a way to get it done, just very surprised a school district their size does not have turf, that does not occur in the WPIAL, to my knowledge every 5A and 6A school in the WPIAL has a turf field.

  703. Buddy says:

    Rumor has it NP is building a new stadium.

    God knows when that will happen!

  704. Kevin X says:

    Lovely, just what North Penn and Crawford Stadium needs…..rain!!!! Not a great way to kickoff the season for a field that has had some bad luck recently with conditions. 3 home games in the first 4 weeks, oh boy. Take preemptive action and push tonight’s game back to tomorrow night???

  705. sausmann9 says:

    Alright sounds good; lets drop my last three games mentioned and lets add the following;

    Downingtown West v Garnett Valley – I got Dtown West

    Gateway v Mt Lebo – got to go with Mt Lebo on this one.

    and one more good one. if we can’t find another lets keep the Northampton v Parkland (crazy feeling about this one)

    I’m going to try to pick the best 10 games each week. lets get a few of us in on some picks. I think as long as we decide what games to choose by tomorrow noon and by thursdays from here on out, we probably could have sojme fun with this. jmo

    @Jeff H – “weird” in the same way you stated. these teams have been rivals for some really good league games. now split apart seems more attitude on line out there. I would love to attend this game, I think this is going to be a great game in spite of the losses by PH to graduation and suspension. I just love me some WPIAL football, it just never gets old. (off topic ~ whats your best wpial game you’ve seen, could be at heinz or threerivers)

    @JC – I ;have a feeling on this one. Kyle Haas has things rolling on the right track and this will be a statement game for the Kids. I watched their tailback just once this summer and he looks FAST!!! Kids finally have some size back on the lines as well ande I think their QB returns as well. This will be a good one!

    @KevX – tx man! and I’m all for adding that Dtown West game instead of one of the last two for sure. I tried to get together 10 good games but by no means did I hit them all. I’m already looking for week 2. Make your picks bud and we’ll see if we can keep track of this for the season. I also like that Dunmore v Scranton prep game, that’ll be a good one as well.

  706. EPCSouth says:

    The best D11 teams would have a very small chance to beat this year’s Prep team. After Prep’s first three games v Marietta, St John’s, and IMG….they will probably mercy rule/dominate everyone in the state of PA. The EPC is trending downward from top to bottom. I’m not expecting much from a lot of the conference.

  707. Tnd775 says:


    Ryan’s standout wr went to northeast in march.

  708. Jeff H. says:

    @Sausman – why do you say Pine Richland vs. Penn Hills is a weird match up? They were in the same conference for years when Penn Hills played in 6A, and both are the defending WPIAL champs in their respective classes. If this game were played last year I would have definitely favored Penn Hills, but they graduated lots of D1 talent and only have 7 returning starters, their head coach is also suspended for this game by the WPIAL, so I like Pine Richland by 2 scores. Another interesting game in the WPIAL tomorrow night and the one I’ll be attending is 5A Gateway vs. 6A Mt Lebanon, many polls have Gateway as the #1 team in 5A, and Mt Lebo is led by former West Allegheny coach Bob Palko, whose West Allegheny team shocked Gateway in the WPIAL semi-finals last year in a huge upset.

    @ Kevin X – agree that Garnet Valley vs. Dtown West should be a good one, if they stay healthy I think Dwest has a legitimate chance to challenge Coatesville and North Penn for the D1 title

    @District 3 Commish – not sure I agree that 5A is weak outside of a few catholic schools, the only catholic school that’s been a factor in 5A the last 3 years is Wood, and all indications are they will be down this year by their standards,like last year the WPIAL has a lot of very good 5A teams, most notably Gateway, Peters Township and Penn Trafford, as previously mentioned defending 5A champ Penn Hills graduated a ton, but they do have some talent returning and will be a factor in the WPIAL. I do agree that Warwick is a big threat to MC in D3, as is Cocalico.

  709. Mcd65 says:

    Kevin X, Not sure about the Ryan RB ,but Northeast is on a mission for sure, They should handle Abington Friday.

  710. JC says:


    I’d be shocked if Northampton-Parkland was close. An upset would be great to see, since I’m hoping the gap between the EPC North and South starts closing, but I just don’t see it. The only EPC North teams I see having a chance at winning in Week 1 are Stroudsburg and East Stroudsburg South, and maaaaaaybe Pocono East pulls a shocker over Nazareth.

  711. Kevin X says:

    @ Sausmann

    Wow, impressive list of games kicking off the season. Just a reminder, the Harrisburg @ Coatesville game is PCN’s “Game of the Week” tomorrow night and will be rebroadcast Saturday night @ 9p. If you aren’t watching the rebroadcast Saturday night……

    ….check out Garnet Valley @ Downingtown West (7p Sat. in Downingtown) could be an honorable mention game.

    Also, some D2 love for honorable mentions….

    Pennridge @ Delaware Valley – love these early season inter district games.
    Dunmore @ Scranton Prep (Sat. afternoon)
    Wilkes-Barre @ Crestwood (just b/c it’s the W-B Wolfpack’s inaugural game

    @ Mcd65

    Wasn’t there also a very talented RB from Ryan that transferred to Northeast this year as well?? Maybe I’m getting these kids confused, or where they are transferring to and from.

    Northeast appears to be just as active (or should I say guilty) in this transfer game as any Catholic/Private/Charter school.

  712. EPCSouth says:

    @Craig A Jones from what I hear it was evenly matched between Coatesville & Easton. Easton huge and physical upfront with good RB. Will be able to run the ball well and play tough defense. Coatesville didn’t show their hand much and kept Ortega out for most of the time. I dont think they will be near last years C’ville team but still good. Wouldnt be surprised if Hburg beats them. Easton will be good in the ever weakening EPC. As an Easton guy i miss the old Easton. Freedom is the run away favorite in D11 with maybe Parkland a close second but both of those teams aren’t the same caliber as other districts so we will be sent home first round of states AGAIN by D12.

  713. Kevin X says:

    @ D3 Commish

    Would love to see those two scrimmages that you saw actually be regular season games…….

  714. Sausmann says:

    Tried to find the top 10 games of the week around the state. The first seven games are solid picks; the last three games are fillers and if anyone can find three better games we can switch them out. Although the last three could be major upsets to start off the season. Enjoy.
    1. Harrisburg v Coatesville – going w/ Coatesville in season opener
    2. North Penn v Neshaminy – going w/ North Penn only b/c its the season opener
    3. Imhotep Charter v LaSalle Prep – going w/ Ihop but in a very close one; speed kills in this one.
    4. Central Dauphin at Wilson West Lawn – Damn this is going to be a good one. Wilson takes it.
    5. Cumberland Valley v McDevitt – going w/ CV just b/c I’m still a Regis Perry fan!!!
    6. Southern Columbia v Hammond SC – going w/ PA power SCA but this team is no joke and SCA will see some nice talent.
    7. Penn Hills v Pine Richland – going w/ Penn Hills on this one. Have a feeling on upset here. weird matchup
    8. Aliquippa v Clairton – Quips got this one but in a dog fight.
    9. Parkland at Northampton – upset special here. Northampton wins by a field goal.
    10. Notre Dame Green Pond v Northwestern Lehigh – transfer season was good to ND. NWL still has one of the better quarterbacks in the district and maybe even region.

    what you all got 🙂

  715. Mcd65 says:

    Well,I just heard McDevitts all catholic RB John Luke Peaker transferred to Northeast . This is the second year in a row that this team has lost Star players prior to the start of a promising year. Last year they lost 2 All Catholic players to Neuman /Gorretti and now this . Phew !!!!

  716. Craig A Jones says:

    Anybody have info on the Easton-Coatesville scrimmage from last Saturday>

  717. Craig A Jones says:

    Was wondering how the Easton-Coatesville scrimmage went on Saturday. Anybody know?

  718. Joe says:

    Southern Colombia playing Hammond High School on Sunday in Columbia South Carolina. Game on ESPN 2 at 2 pm.. Should be quite an event. (Aug. 25 Southern Columbia (Pa.).

  719. NW PA says:

    @Foleman-I’ve noticed the transfer rule only applies to private schools. In District 10 the top player from Erie High has transferred to McDowell the last 3 years in a row for their senior year. I actually see nothing wrong with the transfer but this year the student was given a playoff waiver and it’s my understanding that this rule was meant to stop that sort of thing from happening. Keep in mind this is Erie we are talking about so the whole “my family moved” doesn’t hold any water. The kid who did it this year (whose a great football player and a great kid) lives no more than 5 miles from his old house. If your transferring for your senior year you can easily get a playoff waiver as long as your not transferring to a private school.

  720. District 3 Commish says:

    Mike A. Thanks for the detailed update on CV. Tradition never graduates and CV is the standard of tradition in D3. They will be contenders again soon. If I have my years correct CV will be playing Manheim Central and Spring Ford next year.

    Saw two scrimmages on Saturday…..

    Parkland vs Wilson –

    Parlkand is huge and loaded. Big O-line led by Dawkins. Big athletic wr’s and a tough RB in Isaih Rico.
    Wilson has a great defense. Big solid OL. Two strong RB’s in Lockhart and the Sophomore Jadyn Jones Also a kicker with a big leg.
    Overall a very physical scrimmage. Parkand was better in the 10-10-10 and Wilson was better in game situation.

    Mabheim Township vs Manheim Central-

    Township dominated the whole scrimmage. Big arm QB and lots of skill players. Questions for me is can the OL & DL hold up against power teams. Last year they could not against CD (in playoff 28-0 game) and Wilson.

    Manheim Centeral was very weak on the lines. Great QB and the Wagner twins are back. They will be fine against their week schedule but the two games to watch are against Warwick passing game and Wilson power game. I believe this team is very overrated but 5A is weak outside of a few Catholic schools……. but there are non in D3

    D3 6A Final Four – Harrisburg, CD, MT & Wilson
    D3 5A Final Four – Warwick, Central, Mifflin, Cocalico – Side note…… Noah Palm is going to New Hampshire. This kid is the ultimate football player. (My Projection) He will eventually be an OLB and will get a shot in NFL as a special teams role player. Love this kid!!!!!

    D3 4A – McDevitt – Book it now. BC is down.

    Wyomissing will be strong in 3A. Also as of now they are dropping BC in 2020 because they are tired of them cherry picking their players. Let’s hope they hold to this because at this time it’s the only way to change the system.

  721. David Mika says:


  722. Ndgp82 says:

    When will the preseason rankings be available?

  723. Ndgp82 says:

    @ColonialFan Notre Dame Green Pond has students from New Jersey because there are no Catholic High Schools in Warren or Hunterdon County so they are are allowed to enroll. I coach a non-athletic activity and a few of my students lived in New Jersey.

  724. Kevin X says:

    @ Mcd65

    I’ll defer to you, but you seem to have very high expectations from LaSalle. You expect them to be that good (only loose to SJP)?? I can conceivably (not saying that they will) see them being 1-4 entering October.

    PCL blue gonna be fun.

  725. Mcd65 says:

    A few comments about some teams in the PCL. LaSalle should give the Prep a game this year and will probably only lose to the prep during the year. They are solid all around. Wood will have a losing season IMO.West Catholic will be challenged by McDevitt in AA. Archbishop Carrol could be the surprise team in the PCL blue.

  726. Kevin X says:

    @ Foleman

    Probably more understandable if you have a law degree and/or consume several adult beverages before reviewing………….I assume this will be in place for next year/next cycle???

  727. Kevin X says:

  728. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – Looks like the usual suspects all over the state in 4A, I wouldn’t be surprised if we have the same 4 semi-finalists as last year, with ECP playing McDevitt in the west and Tep vs. Becahi in the east, think Valley View will be very good again and could crash the party, and Berks will challenge McDevitt in D3, but other than that I don’t see any other teams emerging in 4A. I’m a WPIAL guy and I’ll believe TJ can beat ECP when I see it, their coach whines about all the advantages ECP has so his team goes into the game doubting they can win, same thing happens every year (i.e. 2015-2017).

    @Uncle Tom – agreed, some great opening weekend games, I think Dtown West is going to be very good and will challenge Coatesville and North Penn for the D1 title, and yes, SJP’s national schedule is tremendous, I saw in the USA Today they have the 7th toughest schedule in the country, unless something dramatic happens like injuries to several star players everyone else is playing for runner-up in 6A, they are that much better than everyone else in PA this year.

  729. Foleman says:

    I thought the new rules on classification had some sort of success factor involved. Tep vs ECP once again is a joke! The PIAA needs to move them up at least 1 classification. They should be in 5A, ECP could possibly be a 6A school, don’t give me they are small schools either, both of these schools annually have more talent than 95% of the 6 A Public schools. I also don’t get the new transfer rules, 2 kids that transferred into Berks Catholic last year from Public schools were ruled ineligible by District 3, yet today, I read in the local paper that the Maddocks boys who are on their 3rd school in 3 years….last year at Bishop Shanahan, are eligible to play football at Fleetwood HS.

  730. Kevin X says:

    @ Jeff H.

    Yikes, you’re right, it would be round 5!!! Crazy. The first meeting, the last of the original 3A games, was the only one that Imhotep won. I had to go back and look at that season, and that 2015 ‘Tep was a juggernaut. Getting back to this upcoming season, sounds like ECP is still the fav to come out of the west, but maybe a little more competitive?? As far as anybody remotely challenging Imhotep in the east (assuming the brackets are set up the same as last year) I do not see it. Any of you upstate D2 guys feel free to chime in with your inside local knowledge. Guessing the favs up there in D2 for 4A would be the usual suspects, Berwick, Valley View and Dallas?? Becahi or other eastern 4A schools after that??

  731. sca fan says:

    knobels’ not sure who you are talking about that has a Mifflinburg address. But as far as paxinos that is southern Columbia school district. aways has been.

  732. Tep_Guy215 says:

    I feel they should keep 1a – 6a but have a elite small division which would consist of top programs from 1a-3a and have a elite big school division 4a -6a play in a playoff system and let schools in the elite playoff division recruit making it a fair ground for all. Imagine a playoff system with a elite big 8 like Erie, Prep, Imhotep, PineR, PCC, BethlehemC, Wood, Coatesville, Harrisburg. And don’t put teams in districts let them be randomizes matches instead of district titles n stuff so like we might get a Imhotep vs PCC in 1st round match ups and let non superior teams keep the 1a-6a state playoffs brackets

  733. Mike A says:

    @ District 3 Commish and anyone else interested.

    While I am somewhat familiar with this years team I am also of the opinion that CV is in for a few lean years in the near future. The wing T has worked well at CV for many years and many times allows the team to over-perform its talent level with precise execution and teamwork. CV rarely gets transfers and its program from a very early age is ingrained into all future CV football players. CV rarely has D1 talent (Jon Richie, Askari Adams, and Jesse Neumeyer in the 90’s and more recently Kevin Snyder, Kyle Friend, and Charlie Katshir) and it allows them to compete at a very high level with just slightly above average talent, especially at the QB position.

    Preview 2019 Cumberland Valley Eagles Mid Penn Commonwealth District 3
    Cumberland Valley, once again, has one of the toughest schedules in the state (3 preseason top 10 6A teams, 1 top 10 4A team) that includes Coatesville, Central Dauphin, Chambersburg, Bishop McDevitt, State College, and Harrisburg. Last year a very young team improved as the season went along and then won 3 out of the last 4 games, although the competition wasn’t as formidable, ending with a close 16-13 loss to a very good State College team in which the defense allowed only 1 TD. That provided a lot of confidence in the off season. Over those last 4 games the starting defense allowed just 2 TD’s by the opponents offense. This year 9 of those starters return on defense. Seniors Conner Mundis 6’2″, 250, Wyatt Claypool 6’2″, 225, Anthony Fye 6’1″, 225, and Chase Myers, 6’1″, 290 will anchor the defensive line with hard hitting junior LB Derik Sauve, 6’0″, 190 backing them up and 4 returning DB’s. On offense, a seasoned line with good size is headed by Claypool, Mundis and Chase Myers. CV will look to run the football behind them with senior RB Max Dell’Anno, 125-766, 6.1, 9 TD and FB Sauve in the backfield. The 6’3″ Dell’Anno has added strength and weight and now is over 200 lbs and runs a sub 4.5 40. CV expects big things on offense and defense this year from Dell’Anno. With the graduation of Jared Plessinger, CV will turn to senior Hunter Grunden and/or junior Alex Kovach to fill those shoes; not an easy task. SE Logan Ramper, TE Fye, along with tosses to Dell’Anno and others round out the receiving corps. Tim Kissinger returns to handle the kicking chores and most likely will catch some passes also. With inexperience at the QB position opponents can expect a big dose of CV’s wing T running game with timely passing to keep you honest. CV looks to return to its winning ways in 2019 but the path is incredibly difficult, especially considering the inexperienced QB situation and a difficult first half schedule. If the defense can keep them in some games early in the season look for the Eagles to once again come on strong in the second half of the season when the schedule is more favorable. CV should return to the .500 mark and maybe better if everything falls into place. A D3 6A playoff spot is a definite possibility.

  734. Uncle T says:

    Happy 2019 season everyone. Looking forward to another year here.

    Great way to start the season in D1 with Garnet Valley @ Downingtown West Will Howards, and Neshaminy @ North Penn. Throw in Harrisburg-Coatesville and that’s 4 or 5 of the district’s likely top seeds all jumping in the deep end right away. Kudos to the programs for scheduling like this.

    I know I’m probably late to the party on this, but SJP’s early schedule is ridiculous. They’re ranked #8 and play #24, #5, and #6 3 straight weeks. Then they start off Catholic League play with LaSalle in their 4th game. If they sweep, they’ll be nipping at the Mater Dei/Bosco survivor for a national title.

  735. Knobles says:

    I was looking at the Bucknell Roster and noticed two Southern Columbia Alumni on the team.

    When looking closer, it listed Paxinos as one home town but Southern Columbia as the high school. I believe Paxinos is in Shamokin district?

    The other listed Mifflinburg as the home town and Southern Columbia as the high school. Isn’t there a Mifflinburg district?

    I thought SC was a Public School? If so how are these students live in a Public School and attend another Public School?

    Can someone explain? Are there more examples of this at SC?

  736. Jeff H. says:

    @ Kevin X – if ECP and Imhotep meet again in Hershey it will be round 5, as they played for the last 3A title before the move to 6 classes. I don’t see anyone in the West beating ECP, as NW PA stated Thomas Jefferson is once again the favorite in the WPIAL, but they have yet to prove they can beat ECP, although I think the talent level may be closer this year, we’ll see. Expect Clearfield to be good but not as good as last years team, and I would be shocked if they beat ECP in the playoffs. I also don’t see Berks Catholic or Bishop McDevitt from D3 beating Erie Prep, appears both of them will be down slightly from the last few years.

  737. Tnd775 says:

    Catholic league red
    St Joe’s

  738. D11Fan says:

    The local paper in the Lehigh Valley made an article about whether a higher classification D11 team will ever go to the state finals again since 2015 Parkland, 2010 ACC, 2008 Liberty, 2007 Parkland, 2006 Lib, 2005 Lib etc.. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Football in that area isn’t what it use to be. They use to have talent now the past 3 years or so they seem very down to the point where the games are no longer competitive at least against D12. If you look at the signing classes from that area the better the athletes(better competition) the better they perform against D12. Cant go from Persa, Gonzalez, Nosovitch, Saquon, Andre Williams, Kevin White, Shane simpson, Cross, Dotson etc. to the D2/D3 guys they have now and expect to beat St Joes and Lasalle or even District 1. I got to the games each year and see a big drop in talent/competition. the past couple district champs wouldn’t be a .500 team in some of the past years. Would love to hear some input on this as I would love to see D11 back to what it was, a competitor at least.

  739. NW PA says:

    Erie Cathedral is slightly undersized but they have a ton of talent. They have a tough schedule again with St. Eds and Football North as well as Mckeesport and lets not forget Erie High and McDowell. Their tough schedule last year really helped them during their playoff run and I think that will be the case again this year. If they stay healthy they could make another run. That being said, Thomas Jefferson is also loaded and has a big physical line and Clearfield also brings back some talent and a very skilled sophomore quarterback.

  740. Kevin X says:

    I was at Wood and Imhotep down at Upper Dublin. Well, I was there for the “second half” only. I’m not a nuance X’s and O’s guy, and I take these scrimmages with a very large grain of salt, actually more like a salt lick, but what I saw was all ‘Tep. The best thing to come out of these scrimmages is that no one gets hurt. I didn’t see any issues with that while I was there.

    I’m not exactly going out on the limb with this one, but frankly, seeing Round 4 of Imhotep and ECP in December in Hershey. Any western guys (or D3 guys I suppose as well) can correct me on the ECP prediction. Also, unless classifications change next cycle, this finals match-up will continue to be an annual occurrence, so get use to it if you are already not.

  741. Mike says:

    Did anyone go to any scrimmages today?

  742. Papride says:

    Ohio has open border policy, so kids transferring from Ohio to Pa is not nearly as likely to happen as it was 20 years ago. Most of the Ohio kids stay in Ohio and transfer to the powerhouse team across town.The last big Ohio transfer to Northwest, Pa was on the wrestling mat and that was about 7 years ago when Devin Brown moved to Saegertown, Pa. He then followed Spencer Lee south to Franklin Regional. Also speaking of Erie Prep, Coach Mischler and staff have a very, very talented Freshman class. All Erie kids. This class will be as good as or better then the Scruggs, Mischler, Bauer, Roberts, Fessler class in my opinion. Will be fun to watch this group over the next 4 years, they will be special.

  743. ColonialFan says:

    Edit my username if possible to ColonialFan…ha! Need to proofread better!

  744. ConialFan says:

    Add Notre Dame Green Pond to the list of schools with players from other states. It was published in the Morning Call last week that they have a new junior running back that transferred in from Belvidere High School in New Jersey. He ran for something like 1500 yards and a bunch of touchdowns as a freshman and sophomore. I know it’s not a far drive, and I’m sure someone will say he moved to the area….who knows. I’m sure he’s there for the good catholic education.

  745. Mick says:

    Jut, I agree

  746. Jut says:

    Let’s be honest. There has always been non boundary schools playing in the PIAA. It’s only been an issue lately D12/1 schools. D 12 wasn’t allowed to play in PIAA for years for the reason could recruit players from anywhere. But PIAA let them in and now it’s All-star filled teams against small community teams which isn’t fair at all. I’m not saying teams out west recruit players from New York, Ohio or West Virginia I’m sure they do. It’s got worst over the years when teams from philly have players come in half way thru playoffs to play. That isn’t fair and it’s being done. There should be 6 classifications in PIAA. 4 public schools on enrollment and 2 private/catholic school 1 big and 1 small school classification. So the PIAA stays with 6 championships and everything is fair.

  747. Mike Smoll says:

    You know you guys are right, not a lot you can do about recruiting, however the one thing that needs to be tried, but not sure how you enforce, is that you put some kind of limit on the areas from where you can recruit, for instance Central Bucks School District is 122 square miles (and they field 3 6A teams), but limit schools like St. Joe’s Prep to an area equivalent to say Central Bucks 122 square miles, they can pick the drawing of their school district, but can not change, except for say every 7 to 10 years, that way you are putting some kind of limit on where the kids are coming from, unlike today, where they are drawing kids from an area of 3 or 4 school districts or perhaps more.

    @Buddy That field is horrible, it’s ok early in the season, but one good rain storm and it’s done, time for a school like North Penn to put in an artificial turf field.

  748. NW PA says:

    Someone said that Erie Cathedral has players who live out of state and this is completely false. I live in Erie and follow the local football scene and Cathedral Prep hasn’t had any out of state players in at least the last ten years if not more. I challenge anyone to name one out of state player in the last decade. Fredrick Juice Scruggs was born in Ashtabula Ohio which is just over the border but moved to Erie when he was like 8 so I really don’t think that counts. Mercyhurst Prep football has had several players from Canada over the years and they do a bunch of shady things involving housing and tuition.

  749. Buddy says:

    @ Kevin

    WAY, I mean WAY overdue! NP’s field is the worst in D1, by far.

    Last year, and I believe the year before, they were #1 seed for D1 playoffs

    and could not play a single home game due to the field.

  750. Kevin X says:

    Anybody checking out any scrimmages this weekend???

  751. Kevin X says:

    A copy and paste from Twitter……for those of you familiar with North Penn football and Crawford Stadium on the NP campus……..

    “#Towamencin board starts w/a unanimous vote to grant preliminary and final land development approval to
    @NPSD for plans to renovate Crawford Stadium adjacent to NP high school”

  752. David Mika says:

    Route54….Either Thursday or Friday next week.

  753. Route54 says:

    Dave, are you doing the Rankings this year? If so, when do they begin?


  754. mdodgson says:

    @Buddy what i am saying if your non boundary you can get kids from anywhere , so that should make you a 6A school you have a huge pool of people to draw from .To even it up in the top classification let the 6A school recruit to now it and even playing field.It seem it what the PIAA want super teams that can play Friday night on ESPN.If their a reason for something follow the money !!!!

  755. FrankG says:

    @ Foleman

    I’m old and can remember the best Prep football player when I started there in the late ’60s, Dan McGee, was from Cinnaminson NJ and I think Brooks himself, when he played there in the mid-’70s, was a Jersey kid. But maybe because Brooks was from Jersey he looked more to Jersey than previous Prep coaches and thus got Hobson and a few others. The Quinns had always gone to the Prep. But Infante, starting with Reid and Zaccheaus, drew even more from Jersey. Then again, a higher percentage of students overall come from Jersey than was the case decades ago–a reflection of demographic changes in the Phila, area.

    Of course it’s an advantage to have a larger area from which to draw students, but living in Jersey–or in Bucks or Chester County or in the outlying areas of Delaware and Montgomery Counties–while playing football at the Prep (which still practices off campus) comes with some built-in challenges / disadvantages. There’s a school of thought that says making some sacrifices can be strengthening.

  756. GoBigRedMCA says:

    @Knobles wow taking a shot at a kid. Really must be the toughest guy in your moms house. Jealously runs deep in you my friend.

  757. Foleman says:

    FrankG, I know all about the Prep as I grew up in Philly and a few of my Holy Inn classmates went there……..and they are very successful! If I still lived in Philly I would surely send my son there as you can’t beat the Prep. When Gil Brooks took over as head Coach at Prep……. and they were a doormat before Brooks, he, along with Prep’s money turned St. Joe into a National Powerhouse, one of the reason’s why is the unfair advantage in football is that they can get the best of the best from St. Jersey, no Public school can do this. I know the Prep has been getting NJ students for years but before Brooks and later Infante, none of them could play football like Runyon’s kid, Trotters kid and their current QB McCord. The Prep’s football success is one of the reason’s why The Pubs want there own playoff where they all play by the same rules. Plus, lets face it, we both know how difficult it is to get accepted into the Prep, many of their top football players wouldn’t be able to sniff the prep due to grades.

  758. 4th and Long says:

    Phillyboy, think about what you’re saying. By creating public superteams, you’re eliminating opportunities for most kids to gain all of the benefits of participating in high school sports just so we can watch a higher level of competition. I think kids should have more opportunities to participate, not fewer.

  759. 4th and Long says:

    FrankG, you’re correct I’m talking football and basketball, but those seem to be the highest profile sports and this is a football forum. Most of the other sports you mentioned are really individual sports.

  760. 4th and Long says:

    Kevin X, depending on the sport and classification the boundary: non-boundary ratio runs between about 8:1-3:1. Depending on the year, class, and sport, half or more of the state champs are non-boundaries. The sports i was thinking of were football and boys and girls basketball, but while they’re probably the most egregious examples, I’d bet some degree of imbalance holds true for just about every sport. So yes, I’m speaking in round numbers, but I’m in the ballpark as far as my point goes.

  761. phillyboy says:


    Was proposing, for the large suburban school districts, to have only 1 football team instead of 1 for each high school. It would create a much stronger team. Erie condensed to 1 team a couple years ago and I believe Wilkes-Barre is in the process of doing the same thing.* Those schools had to do it out of necessity but a district could also do it voluntarily to improve the quality of the roster. As an added benefit, districts would save money. Could you imagine if Central Bucks had only 1 team instead of 3? That would be the real deal, they’d be ba’ack. Don’t mean to be negative, but as A I (Allen Iverson) used to say ‘Let’s keep it real’, they’re not going anywhere anytime soon — that is, CB West, CB East, and CB South. It’s what I call a malaise of mediocrity. Would you rather have 3 teams with a 4-6 or 5-5 record, or 1 team that can bang with Prep in early December at Northeast High? It’s the same principle at other large suburban districts like Council Rock, Downingtown, Bethlehem, Central Dauphin, etc. Condensing to 1 team isn’t an automatic prescription for success, but it’s certainly a step in the right direction. In a perfect world, sure, each high school should have its own team, but like the old adage, ‘sometimes unique problems call for unique solutions’. Anyway just some thoughts, phillyboy here, I’m out.

    *Btw the consolidation of the Erie and W-B schools into a single team does not have the same advantage because they merged lower classification teams. If the schools being merged are already 6A then a real boost can be realized.

  762. FrankG says:

    @ Buddy

    “Most sports” is even vaguer than “most people.” From what I hear and read very few people have concerns about private and public schools competing against each other in wrestling, baseball, track, cross country, tennis, and even lacrosse. Nearly all the concerns are about football and basketball. Isn’t that true?


    Maybe you already know this, but SJP had a large number of students (including but far from only athletes) from Jersey for many decades before the PCL entered the PIAA. I don’t remember any discussion of not allowing students from Jersey to compete in PIAA playoff games before the PCL joined the PIAA. Of course, the PIAA could decide to impose that rule, in which case SJP–and maybe the whole PCL–would withdraw from the PIAA. My sense is that SJP could live with this–and maybe even be better off. Not sure it would be good for the PIAA. The landscape has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years and will probably change even more in the next decade.


    I know this is an eastern PA board, but it’s still curious that many mention the situation in Jersey–be careful what you wish for–but nobody mentions Ohio.

  763. Knobles says:

    How old is Julian Fleming? I know his birthday is in December….. but will he be 18, 19 or 20?

  764. Buddy says:


    4th & long is about right. You don’t need an exact stat to prove one’s point. “Most sports” simply means most sports.

    @mark d

    not sure what you’re saying there.


    Same as above.

  765. mark d says:

    simple if you a non boundary school your 6 A case closed if you a public 6 A school you should have no transfer rule now you have an even playing field

  766. District 3 Commish says:

    4th and Long – Well said.

  767. phillyboy says:

    … eliminate the redundant teams. If Downingtown and Central Bucks or even Bethlehem had a single tram, it would be formidable and intriguing.

  768. phillyboy says:

    They should NOT separate the public and private schools for the playoffs. This is phillyboy’s take on it. It can be tweaked. Got the transfer rule already. Public teams could refuse to play privates during the regular season. And a HUGE one for the big suburban school districts: elim

  769. Kevin X says:

    @ 4th and Long

    “reality in PA is a non-boundary school has almost 10 times the chance of winning a title over a public school in the same classification” How and where do you come up with that statement??

    “in most of the big sports” ???? more specifically???

    @ Foleman

    Linden Hall

  770. 4th and Long says:

    Separating private and public schools works fine in Jersey, where the level of play is on a par with PA. The reality in PA is a non-boundary school has almost 10 times the chance of winning a title over a public school in the same classification in most of the big sports. If we’re interested in fair play, you’ve gotta separate the schools. If we’re just interested in seeing who the best teams in the state are, lets eliminate enrollment classifications altogether and crown one champ per sport. However, claiming the present system promotes a level playing field is demonstrably absurd.

  771. The Joneses says:

    @ Foleman The league the school plays in, is based on the where the school is, not where the student comes from. You can’t eat your cake and still have it. If private and public schools stay together, than you want a private school for what it is. An entity that can and will draw students from all over academically and athletically. I think people will get their wish soon enough because someone is going to bend to the cries of people who want to see the separation. Then people will find something new to complain about. The privates won’t be complaining. Their machine will keep going. All we thought about was beating the privates when I was in school. Now how our parents could lobby so we didn’t have to play them. Participation trophy for everyone.

  772. Foleman says:

    I am not in favor of separating Public and Private schools, Recruiting by the private schools will go off the charts if this happens. I am in favor of not having non-Pa students participate in PIAA sports. Minus out of Stater’s Trotter and McCord and who knows else on the Prep would bring them back down to a level of where the Pubs might have a chance to beat them. Outside of Prep, Erie Cathedral Prep, BECA-(wrestling) and Kennedy Catholic….who knows where their basketball player’s come from…..can anyone think of any other schools in the PIAA that draws athletes from other states? McCord & Trotter and the rest of the outsiders can play in the Inter Ac or the Hill Schools of the world, not in the PIAA.

  773. Mike Smoll says:

    The Doylestown Intelligencer Sports page, shows a picture of McCord and Trotter and said the Interstate Dominance and speaks about how both are from Mt Laurel New Jersey, Seems funny that only select schools can recruit from New Jersey and other states but can compete for the PENNSYLVANIA state title and Pennsylvania all state team. Don’t understand how Public schools can compete with the recruiting.

  774. Kevin X says:

    @ Buddy

    Hot topic back in the spring (and prior), but I haven’t heard anything about it lately. Maybe just a case of summer break and/or the legislative process is a typical slow moving process. Anyways, lots of articles on-line about the bill that was/or to be introduced in Harrisburg back in early June, here is one of them that gives pretty decent overview……..

  775. Buddy says:

    BTW, are they separating public & private?

    Has that been determined? If so, when?

  776. Buddy says:


  777. Buddy says:

    Recruiting is very powerful.

  778. Mike Smoll says:

    Am I incorrect, I thought one of the Great Central Bucks West teams were also ranked #1 in the country. I know for sure they were ranked that during the season, did they lose out in the final polls???????

  779. phillyboy says:

    PA has had 6 high school football national chamions: 1918-Harrisburg Tech, 1919-Harrisburg Tech, 1983-Berwick, 1987-North Hills, 1992-Berwick, and 1995-Berwick. Could St. Joe’s Prep be the next — for 2019? It’s possible, they come in ranked #11 already. They get warmed up against a public team in the opener, then they got 2 really tough out of state private teams at home. If they can get through that unscathed, it’s like a surfer who has just battled through the white water waves to reach the swells. They could then set the cruise control, starters won’t have to play into the 2nd half until the state semifinal, if then.

  780. Kevin X says:

    PCN TV released their high school football “Game of the Week” schedule. Kicks off Friday August 23rd, as kind of as expected (at least by me), with Harrisburg @ Coatesville. Interesting to see on the schedule later in the year Archbishop Wood @ SJP.

  781. Torchy says:

    You don’t mess with a good thing. Hershey is the best possible place to host the state championships. Didn’t we see how poor moving the PIAA basketball finals were?!?

  782. Kevin X says:

    ……..and I forgot to mention that 6 games over the course of 2 or 3 days on the natural grass of Beaver Stadium, no matter how good it is, in early December with any rain/snow could be a complete nightmare of field conditions.

    I’m on board with Bucknell hosting. Assuming they have a decent capacity stadium with turf. Lewisburg is a pretty cool little college town. Wouldn’t mind the PIAA taking the show on the road and moving championship weekend around the state from year to year.

    I saw PJP 3 times last year (ok, 2 1/2, bailed at halftime of the Upper Perk game) but the two others were two of the better games that I saw in person last year. The back and forth affair with Pottsgrove, and the playoff game against New Hope (at Conshy “A” Field, where I’d recommend to you guys to try to catch a game at if you are into old school grass field throwback intimate facilities). Unfortunately the PJP defense decided to go home at halftime of the game. I think Gray has a howitzer for an arm, and if he has these weapons around him, they could make a nice run. 3A is a small group in SEPA, but a tough one. Still have CEC, but they should come back to the pack now sans Garwo. N-G??? Which N-G team will we have this year, the South Philly All-Star team from 2 years ago, or the train wreck from last year???

    One more thought………..PCL Blue gonna be fun this year. PCL Red gets all the yapping with SJP, LaSalle and Wood, but looking forward to the PCL Blue dogfight!!!

  783. PSU88 says:

    Bucknell University would be a great location for state championship games.

  784. 4th and long says:

    Foleman, I saw PJP twice last year and love the program. I think they’re extremely well coached, love Gray at QB (but I don’t see him as a D1 player) and the addition of Walker to an already talented bunch of returning receivers gives PJP a lot of firepower in the passing game. The problem is Neumann-Goretti is in D1 AAA and with six legit D1 college recruits, I don’t see anyone stopping them for a while. Albee Crosby is probably the best recruiter in SE PA.

    Kevin X, as someone who came from an area where the finals were played in a pro stadium, I totally agree the sight of a few thousand fans in an arena designed for 70K+ is pretty sad. Hershey or a small college are better settings for football championships in this state.

  785. Kevin X says:

    Some of you guys probably saw this from a few days ago, thought it was intriguing. Initially I thought it was a cool idea to move the PIAA football championship games to Beaver Stadium, but upon further reflection, visualizing 2,000 – 3,000 fans in a 109k seat stadium is not a good look or atmosphere. Your thoughts……..

  786. Foleman says:

    4th and Long, Walker transferred in last year from Daniel Boone HS, he was the leading receiver in Berks County as a sophomore and suffered an injury in preseason practice which cost him the entire year. He’s 6’4 230lbs and has committed to Bowling Green. PJP is going to be fun to watch this year.

  787. Kevin X says:

    “All 2019-2020 fall sports approved at this morning’s District III Committee meeting. Football will play all games, including championships, at the home site of the higher seed. All soccer finals will be at Hersheypark Stadium. Field hockey finals at Milton Hershey School.”

    A little cut and paste action out of District 3. Looks like all of the football playoffs in D3 are now taking the same route at D1 is now doing. You central PA/D3 guys thoughts on this/that?????

  788. Kevin X says:

    I was going to take a shot at playing match maker, but looked like one of my game suggestions has already materialized. Since a bunch of small D2 teams will be/are looking for a new opponents after Holy Cross pulled the plug on this season, thought of two obvious games. I saw that The Academy of the New Church was looking for two games, and it appears that they have already hooked up with Riverside in late September. Hope they are a gracious host and treat ANC to some Old Forge pizza. Second game I thought would be cool (that may be a literal statement if played up at Tunnel Hill), is a match-up of last years Eastern PA’s top two “A” schools with the aforementioned ANC meeting up with Lackawanna Trail in week 10.

  789. 4th and long says:

    Foleman, where did Walker of PJP transfer from? I don’t remember him from last year’s team.

  790. Foleman says:

    Pope John Paul-Royersford-Weapons all around, Gray to Walker-(both Div 1 recruits) should be a lethal combo. This is PJP’S best team ever and should end Pottsgrove’s run in Div 2 of the Pac 10. They will also be in the hunt for the AAA District 1 Championship.

    Wilson West Lawn, should challenge for District 3 AAAAAA Championship along with Manheim Township, Hburgh and Central Dauphin. Big line, tough D, RB/LB Lockhart has to stay healthy for them to make a run.

  791. District 3 Commish says:

    Kevin X – Good topic!

    St Joe Prep- Who cares as they play by different rules
    Harrisburg – Plenty of speed back and two D1 O Lineman. They could be great, but sometimes that program is fragile and if things don’t go well it goes south quickly. I am calling losses to State College, CD & Coatesville
    Coatesville – The Coatesville fans are concerned that Ortega will be exposed without Aaron Young to draw all the defensive attention.
    Downingtown West – Here is your surprise team. This is the regular season game that Coatesville is most concerned with I know they have been playing underclassmen the last few years and this is their year. Also if you ever want to find an SJP coach just go to a youth game between Coatesville and the Downingtown Teams!!!!!
    Manheim Township – 4 D1 skill players – QB – Kirk, TE – Mann, WR Ivey, Safety- Engel – But can they block. Strong defense – undersized but fast. Passing game will be impressive. If OL is solid they will be very good
    Wilson – Strong OL & fast defense. Power running game with Lockhart & Jadyn Jones. If QB play is there this could be a strong team.
    CD – Will have great line play again. Need to give Chimenti some help and they will win District 3.

  792. Route54 says:

    Kevin X. To answer that question, I’ll throw out Nativity from Pottsville. Apparently, they have biggest roster in school history and returning some skilled players.

  793. Route54 says:

    Dave, sounds good. Can’t wait to see some Rankings

  794. Kevin X says:

    Thanks NO!!!

    Shame about HC, really don’t think they’ve been too competitive in recent years as well, so maybe not unexpected. Unfortunately, looks like that will leave 10 teams with unexpected and unplanned bye weeks. Guess we’ll see at this late stage if they can scramble for a game to fill the HC week.

    So 6 of 7 teams making the D2 3A playoffs. I will refrain for the moment of climbing back on my “too many teams in the post season” soap box for now…..

    That link did confirm that “Wilkes-Barre Wolfpack” will be playing as a 6A school.

  795. Kevin X says:

    I’d actually like to hear from you guys on your thoughts on dark horses, under the radar, unloved schools/teams that we do not hear about year in year out. Or teams that have been good in the past, but have had some off/down years of late. No offense, but I’m expecting the same old same olds to be in any pre-season rankings. Any doubt SPJ, Harrisburg, and Coatesville will be the top 3 6A preseason schools and two usual suspects for 4 and 5?? So c’mon on guys, dig deep and go out on a limb now and on the record for some bragging rights come November!!!!!

  796. David Mika says:

    I’m going to start putting my rankings together. Let’s talk preseason rankings!

  797. Neutral Observer says:

    Holy Cross (1A in District 2) is suspending the program for 2019 due to lack of participation. Per the Scranton Times, they only have 12 kids come out for the team.

  798. Neutral Observer says:

    @ Kevin X

    RE: 3A playoff in D2 from your July 17 post

    I was wondering the same thing myself. Per the D2 website:

    6 team District II Championship
    November 1 – District II Quarterfinals
    November 8‐ District II Semifinals
    November 15 – District II Championship
    November 22 – State Quarterfinal vs. District IV winner

    The website doesn’t say explicitly, but I’m guessing that the top 2 seeds get a Quarterfinal BYE.

  799. Torchy says:

    @Mike P

    IMG Academy v St Joe’s Prep is gonna be at Widener university.

  800. Mike P says:

    Does anyone know where the SJP IMG will be at?

  801. Route54 says:

    Southern vs Hammond. Unfortunately, I’ll be away a few days. I’ll have to see about recording it TIVO. Should be interesting game played on Sunday. Anyone want to throw out some predictions?

  802. Socofootball2566 says:

    @KevinX- ESPN sought out SoCo to play in this game. With 2 top ten recruits in Fleming and Burch on the field its a great showcase. Just from speaking with many fans around the community its going to be a Southern home game in Columbia SC.

  803. MARK D says:

    thanks Jim B Kevin is not the only one that saw them listed at 5 A i actually saw it an another site as well as this one, but looking at the numbers from those 3 schools from last year combined they were well in the 6 A range sorry for any confusion

  804. Sausmann says:

    @kevinX – there may have been a few teams between SCA and Hammond SC but since Hammond has the #1 player in the country at DE (also plays halfback) and SCA has #1 wide receiver, ESPN was able to profile two top players in the country. Its a HUGE bonus that they both play on very very good teams. ESPN is most likely the one who sought out both squads b/c of the players, then the size is comparable as are the programs at both schools.

    SCA will see some very good overall team speed in week 1 vs Hammond. Hopefully Hammond has not seen this type of offense very much at all in the past (which is often the case in these types of games) and if Roth uses some old school misdirection/against the grain stuff, SCA can open it up w/ Fleming on the outside. Great matchup for sure!!!

  805. Kevin X says:

    Thanks Route54

    That is quite a road trip for the SoCo fans to Columbia, SC, maybe they’ll combine it with a Myrtle Beach vaca. Not sure I’d look forward to a late August mid afternoon game down in the south, especially with what is going on right now in PA.

    Wondering why they couldn’t match up SoCo with someone more local. Guess the parameters they are looking for are teams that have a top flight 2020 recruit(s) and a very good team that match up well getting together. Can’t find another PA team that would fit that bill.

  806. Jim B says:

    Just looked at the numbers, Wilkes-Barre is definitely 6A.

  807. Jim B says:

    I am almost certain Wilkes-Barre is 6A. I think this site may be wrong.

  808. Route54 says:

    @KevinX. I just found this.

    The Hammond and Southern Columbia game features three top Division I prospects in Hammond’s Jordan Burch and Alex Huntley and Southern’s Julian Fleming.

  809. Route54 says:

    @KevinX. That’s interesting. I’m sure the SCA fans will travel well for that one. After researching this Hammond team, they basically have the same amount of titles as SCA. Wondering how many of their players are going D1.

  810. mark d says:

    thanks you Kevin a few people were surprised when thay ended up at AAAAA but that were the number fell. i know thier going to be some change in the AAA playoff but have no real information on how it will be structured

  811. Kevin X says:

    OK, answered one of my own earlier questions…….

    Southern Columbia @ Hammond School (Columbia South Carolina) in a featured GEICO HS Football Kickoff Weekend match-up to be televised nationally on ESPN2 on Sunday August 25th @ 2pm.

  812. Kevin X says:

    @ mark d

    I have no info on this, but AH and NP are right near the top of the 4A classification enrollment cutoff level now, so I can easily see them getting bumped up. AH was 5A last cycle. Both are in, I guess I would say, steady population areas. Dallas tho is middle of the pack enrollment wise now in 4A, so is their some kind of population boom going on in the back mountain area??? Thinking more like if they do move up to 5A, more of a voluntary situation. Get to dodge Berwick and Valley View in a any potential playoff match-up.

    Speaking of, any changes coming to the 3A D2 playoffs after loosing two of the W-B schools??? They had 8 of 9 teams going at last year, but only 7 now??

    Also, what is the story on Wilkes-Barre, the Wolfpack??? I know there is consolidation going on, but only one team for the whole school district?? And if so, they are only 5A?? I would think they’d easily be 6A if you add all the current enrollment figs for the 3 W-B high schools.

  813. mark d says:

    i being told that in the next cycle that Abington heights ,North Pocono and Dallas will be moving to AAAAA has any one got any information on this

  814. District 3 Commish says:

    Looking for some information on Manheim Township & Manheim Central:

    Township has 4 D1 players in Harry Kirk – Colgate, Jon Engel – Lafeyette, Ben Mann – Yale and Anthony Ivey has D1 offers but will only be a Sophomore this year. Does anyone have information on the O line and Defensive Tackles?

    Manheim Central is very similar in that last year their line play was the strength and they lost most of that. They still have Simon and the Wagner twins but not sure of their line strength.

    Appreciate any information.

  815. Matt says:

    @route54…..yeah I think it isn’t bad either. With smaller school leagues combining them gives smaller schools in CL a chance to player other schools their size in the Schulykill league. For example, Northern Lehigh, Palmerston, Pen Argyl, and Catty will play a schedule (besides rivals) that are schools their size and not all the big CL schools like Saucon and SL. Instead they will play Minersville, Panther Valley, etc. We will see how it works out.

  816. David Mika says:

    Craig….It’s not our top 100 players….It’s Player Preview Series in 100 Days

  817. Craig A Jones says:

    I’ve been looking at the 100 players in District 11. Wow, Stroudsburg gonna be a beast of a team, 4 in the top 50. What’s the criteria for this list?

  818. Route54 says:

    I’ve heard about the merger of leagues in 2020. Some like it , some don’t. I think it’s not a bad idea.

  819. Matt says:

    @Route54… EPC, Parkland, Freedom, Easton and Beca will be good. There’s more parity than in the past I think this year. Parklands run came to and end last year but with their numbers they are still a threat year in and year out. In CL, Southern Lehigh, NDGP, and Saucon should be good. They have the numbers and in a league where enrollment is going down they compete every year with having the advantage of numbers. I think NW should be good as well. I’m not too sure of the Sch League. I would assume North Schulykill will be good. And so should Schulykill Haven. Next year (2020) is the combining of CL and Schulykill leagues.

  820. Route54 says:

    Glad to see the forum in full gear again. What does District 11 have this year. Top teams.

  821. Route54 says:


  822. Kevin X says:

    I can conceivably see SJP starting the season 0-3, and then basically sleepwalking to another 6A state title.

    Did I actually see that correctly, a D4 team actually playing outside of D4?? So Col heading to SC for their first game?? Is this going to be one of those national ESPN kickoff weekend games??

    Did Coatesville ever find a dance partner for the week 2 (Labor Day weekend)?? Are we done with using the term “Week 0”??? I really hope so.

  823. Mcd65 says:

    Southern Columbia ranked #1 Small school and St Joe Prep ranked #4 in one National Ranking service. Hope they live up to their respective places and both will be tested early.

  824. Jim B says:

    Northwest Area (D2) has opted to leave the Wyoming Valley Conference in football beginning in the 2020-21 school year. The single A Rangers will now play in the Norther Tier League.

    With this departure, and the merging of the three Wilkes-Barre City high schools, the WVC will be down to 13 schools next year.

  825. Ronald Robsock says:

    @Dennis, Yes Berwick has signed a 2 year contract with Southern Columbia for 2 years starting in 2020. First game will be played at Crispin Field sat Aug 22. Coach Carm also wants to play Mt. Carmel or Pottsville in 2020. Berwick is leaning to Heartland Conf. in a few years.

  826. David Mika says:

    KMac….Thank you and welcome back….

  827. KMac says:


    Congratulations on getting the forum back up and running. I was unexpectedly away a few days and saw it was back when I returned. Sorry, I did not get to the test process

  828. David Mika says:

    Hi Matt. August 1st we are going to launch our team previews.

  829. Matt says:

    @Dave….when do the team previews start?


  830. David Mika says:

    We are back!! Godaddy had blocked our forum. I didn’t know.

  831. Kevin X says:

    Happy 4th all!!!

    So, are we back??? 🙂

  832. Dennis Pascoe says:

    According to a local TV sports commentary in the 2020 season Southern Columbia and Berwick will face each other. For years fans from both sides cried for this game to happen. The 2020 game will be at Berwick and the 2021 game will move to Catawissa. Two of the most storied programs in PA high school football. It doesn’t get any better then that!

  833. Brian says:

    Is it true Southern Columbia and Berwick are scheduling a game August 22, 2020?

  834. FridayNightLights says:

    Here’s my obligatory NP post since it’s been a long time…

    Anyone know who their QB will be? Couple good players returning and coming up from the system but need someone to run the offense. Defense should be solid.

  835. sausmann9 says:

    What needs to be done in the meantime is that

    1. all public schools should simply stop scheduling the private/parochial schools on the regular season schedule. Schools have that right. If enough schools opt out of playing them, they won’t have enough games to get into PIAA playoffs.

    2. simply get together with all/most other public schools in your league and district and have their own “after regular season playoffs”; kind of like a contingency game but multiple games.

    3. refuse all transfers to private/parochial. If those schools and representatives want to make it miserable for public schools, then the public schools should counter back with their own nonsense. I found that guy from PCC to be a total azzwipe regarding the appeals process and his threats to the public schools. Is he afraid PCC will then be on equal ground for every game of the season – sounds like and seems like he’s scared! PCC will be exposed and he knows it.

  836. Jimmy M says:

    From talking with my state rep, this separation thing will go nowhere. Charter schools are considered public schools and any separation would have to include the charter schools with the public schools. No point to the separation than in my opinion.

  837. Kevin X says:

    Some of you guys probably already saw this article that appeared on the PennLive website a few days ago. More fun stuff with regards to the ongoing public/private/charter debate, more specifically with playoffs…….PLAYOFFS!!?!??

  838. sausmann9 says:

    Great compilation of a great team and season!!! North Penn 03′ was fun to watch. I saw four of their games live that season and the only game I wish was on another date/day was at the 33;44 mark. North Penn v Easton for eastern final.. I think this outcome could have been a bit different had Easton not played Pburg NJ in their biggest rivalry game two days prior to this game. You could see some of the Easton defenders just running out of gas, flat footed, and heads down. NP had too much at the end.

    Would have loved to see NP 03′ vs CBW 99′.

  839. Buddy says:

    @ sol fan

    Of course you knew I would like that!

  840. Sol d1 fan says:

    Saw this the other day and thought I’d share. 2003 North Penn

  841. 4th & Long says:

    District 3, that’s a lot of great info/opinion. One thing I’d like to comment on is your question about why a top QB would stay at a high school running the Wing T (or any run dominant) offense. The answer is simple… because he wants to play for the town where he lives instead of just going to a program to showcase his skills. I agree, if you want to beat the best, you’d better be able to throw, but if you want to win in November and December in Pennsylvania, you’ve either gotta be able to run or control the weather, and you have a lot more influence on the former than the latter.

  842. Brian says:

    Hey D3 commish speaking of wing T offense you may want to go see Southern Columbia run it. They’ve been doing it forever and have a coach that’s won over 400 games and lost only 82. 9 state titles and 17 state title appearances. They’ve beat some very good teams from philly catholic and the WPIAL. I’d say it’s working well for them.

  843. District 3 Commish says:

    Happy St Patricks Day!!! Time to get some football talk started. I am most familiar with LL, Berks and Mid Penn 5A and 6A schools.

    Will Cumberland Valley bounce back from their worst season in forever? They will be better than 3-7 for sure but not convinced they will be a top contender come playoff time. Was speaking with a few people familiar with their youth programs and was told there are concerns about the future teams. In 2020 they will be picking up Spring Ford on their schedule. Mike A what are your thoughts on CV for next year and beyond?

    Thought CD was the most physical team in D3 last year but were an athletic skill player away from beating Harrisburg. They lost a bunch but will be solid again. Definitely a D3 final 4 team.

    Harrisburg having lost Everson and White will be difficult to replicate last season but still have plenty of speed returning……. but they always have speed. Their success always comes down to line play. If they develop that they will have a strong season again.

    Central York has been trying like crazy to raise the level of their program and will eventually get there and become a perennial contender. Their coach has ties to Cumberland Valley and is slowly changing culture and expectations there. They recently dropped long time local rival West York (4A) from their schedule to improve competition. This was not an easy decision and did create some hard feelings locally. Also Exeter was added to the 2020 schedule. CY thought they had an agreement to add a 6A power program to the schedule but that fell through which was not received well by CY. They will have a solid year and make D3 playoffs but not quite ready yet to contend for a title……….. But they will soon!!!!

    Manheim Township is loaded on offense, line backers and secondary and have a good QB in Harry Kirk. They have a Super Soph in future D1 WR Anthony Ivey and future PSAC LB’s in the Emge Twins. The concern again will be the strength of both lines as they were exposed in both losses last year to Wilson and CD. Coach Evans will again have his team in the D3 hunt and possibly finals.

    Manheim Central will be very similar to Township. Great QB in Simon who must have 20 D1 offers by now. Also the Wagner twins are great receivers. Again not sure about the play of the lines as most graduated last year but I’m sure they have more coming. Favorites to win D3 5A for sure. Their biggest game is going to Wilson for week 4.

    Wilson only lost a few seniors last year and should be strong the next two years. Defense will be very good and led by Avanti Lockhart at LB who has interest from Syracuse, Virginia Tech and BC. QB and running back depth are not figured out yet. Strong D3 contender this year.

    Warwick will be interesting again with a great JR QB in Joey Chapman and super fast WR Trey Glass. Oh and BTW they also have possibly the most highly recruited Lineman in the country in Nolan Rucci. He is a JR 6’8″ about 280 and can move. He has offers from everywhere but Alabama and Clemson so far. Depth will be the issue here.

    Mifflin has some skill players and their own Super Soph in Nick Singleton who I project as a future D1 LB or RB. If they get line play they will have a strong year.

    No disrespect to any teams I didn’t comment on. I only offered opinions on teams I was familiar with or had information.

    Additional Comments:

    Moving to 6 classifications has caused some 6A teams to drop strong 5A teams because the loss hurts the power rankings too much. When there were only 4 classes most of these teams were all 4A.

    Teams that still run the Wing T are doing a disservice to their players. It doesn’t win against good teams and there is never a Plan B once you fall behind. I don’t want to hear about success against teams that are not a match physically or the occasional success. Also why would a great QB stay there? CV, Mifflin, Cocalico and whoever else is stuck in the past….. get with the times!

  844. BigRichardNick says:

    Thanks Dave, should be a fun year! I like a guy who says “62 days” & not “2 months”!

  845. David Mika says:

    In 62 days…..

  846. BigRichardNick says:

    Can’t wait for the year to start! Hey Dave, when’s the “100 players in 100 days” start?

  847. Neutral Observer says:

    Berwick Head Coach Frank Sheptock stepping down to take a job at Kings College.

  848. David Mika says:

    We are going to start working on them next Monday. If they are available we will have them up. Not all schedules are complete yet.

  849. BobD123 says:

    When will 2019 schedules be released?

  850. Kevin X says:

    So are there two forums going on here concurrently, the old 2018 and a new 2019?? I’m confused…….

  851. Kevin X says:

    The public/private issue/debate is starting to heat up again……….

    Also, our second favorite topic, the transfer issue/debate, albeit on the basketball court, is in the news as well (this one I think is a joke)…….

  852. Michael Keeney says:

    The backyard brawl may be over. The Reading Eagle is reporting that the reorganization of the Berks League will move BC to Section 1 and leave Wyomissing in Section 2. Not sure if they can or will schedule a md or early season game….

  853. JC says:

    The Schuylkill/Colonial league scheduling co-op is official for 2020. Williams Valley, Tri-Valley, Pine Grove, and Nativity will all be included as well to create a 28-team cooperative with 2 divisions of 8 teams and 2 divisions of 6 teams. Essentially forms a D11 super-conference sans the East Penn teams.

  854. D3 Mike says:

    Based on returning underclassmen from their dominant state title teams, I’d be shocked if SJP, ECP, and SCA didn’t repeat. I don’t know as much about the other winning rosters. I’d think 5A and 3A would be up for grabs, though, if for no other reason than it will be difficult for Gateway and Aliquippa to run the WPIAL gauntlet, again. I’m sure the western forum guys can handicap it.

    Manheim Central and Middletown both return a bunch of starters to the eastern half of the bracket. Wood will also be in the mix in 5A (although they’d be coming thru the “west”). Middletown probably gets thru 3A one more time before Lancaster Catholic, NDGP, Scranton Prep, and/or the Philly catholics reel them in (and SCA moves up).

  855. Buddy says:

    let me try to get the ball rollin”…………..

    Whose the top dogs next year? The usual suspects?

  856. David Mika says:

    Welcome to 2019! Let’s talk Football!