Are you ready for some football?
Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2018 season.
During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.
During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.
881 Responses
@Kevin X and @Buddy
The game is being played at Pottsgrove, Rick Pennypacker field.
No, I definitely said Harrisburg was good and I gave them credit for beating a good State College team (non D3 btw). What I said was that Wilson, CD, and Manheim Twp were not good because unlike anyone at any of the outlets trying to rank 559 schools in PA I’ve actually seen those 3 teams play multiple times. I mean if you cover the date on any of those ratings you would have zero idea what year they were published, let alone what week. You want the PennLive state rankings for Oct 2019? I can give you probably 9 of 10 in each class right now.
Wilson just got done going 10 years without a league loss. 9-1 every other year year. Smoked in states every other year. I live a block from the school. This year’s 3 loss team is just not good. I don’t know if they have a true D1 player. And they are probably the second best team in the district. CD isn’t the same team they were at the start of the year. Manheim was like 3-20 in districts until last year or whatever it was. Their recent success is a function of Wilson being down as much as anything. They’d get beaten by Downingtown and mercy ruled by either North Penn or GV.
Where I’ll agree with you is that the middle and bottom of the Mid Penn is superior, so overall Harrisburg’s schedule is probably better. So I will grant you that part of the argument. I was focusing more at the high end teams they will have each beaten before playing each other again and I stand by my assertion that State College will be the only real notable win for Harrisburg on the way there, including districts. I’ll even take DTE off the list for you, but Coatesville will probably have beaten Harrisburg, DTW, North Penn and GV. That’s after playing St Joe’s and the D1 gauntlet last year while Harrisburg was at home. I just don’t see how beating 7-3 teams in districts will prepare them for that game.
Mike A
As a D1 guy, respect teams like Wilson, CD, and Manheim. Solid programs with legacies/pedigree, but a Tier under D11. Harrisburg has had a great last few years, but D3 Mike is right to say that their playoff loss last year was a bad blow to the district’s reputation. They were supposed to be on par with Wood, and well, yeah.
I think you’re highlighting how flawed and irrelevant the ***preps algorithm is. Just look at their rankings this year: DTown West is ranked way too high- they looked like a JV team against Coatesville just off of their own gameplan, and the fact that they handled DTown East doesn’t bode well at all this week for East vs. C’Ville. Even at this site, the rankings are flawed to anyone who pays attention to the games instead of the final scores. North Penn is ranked where they are solely off of reputation, and you’ll get no argument here that any of the big boys in D3 would beat them this year. NP is a 6 or 7 seed in the district if we were ranking like NCAA.
Coatesville is one of the most talented D1 teams of the last many years (probably better than 2016 North Penn, who was the best team in the state that year in my opinion and only lost to SJP because their QB Udinski had his worst game of the year at the worst time). But they have some flaws- mainly the fact that their competition has been woefully underwhelming and we don’t know how they’ll react if they’re trailing at halftime or in a 2nd half. If talented Haverford gets the 7 seed, we’re gonna see just how good Coatesville is if they have to beat them and battle-tested, undefeated Garnet Valley in consecutive weeks. As D3 Mike himself said previously, Coatesville in the state final is written in pencil, however dark the shading may be.
Not sure I want to wade into the discussion, but hard to figure why the Downingtown teams are being somewhat dumped on. Yes, the Chesmont league is weak (and a real problem for the good teams concerning D1 rankings), but hard to say how the mid-level teams would fare in other conferences. I know that both Downingtown teams have put the smackdown on a number of teams (I’m just not seeing upwards of 4 losses each playing in D3). As far as the Coatesville/CV game — C’ville was well on their way to the mercy rule (then a fumble and a TON of penalties — could have piled on another TD in the last minute too but took a knee — probably their worst game to this point). DTE could give C’ville a challenge this Friday, but we’ll have to wait and see.
@D3 Mike…Just for fun I ran CD’s schedule with DTE and DTW. Here are the results. Pretty much as I expected but some very close games that could go either way. Here is the site if you want to play around. You can even match teams from other years against each other. I’ve found it to be pretty reliable as far as ratings go.
http://www.calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2018/project_matchup1_new.pl
Ratings: http://calpreps.com/2018/ratings/Pennsylvania_all.htm
DTW with Central Dauphin Schedule -Projected scores (all neutral field)
DTW 28 Wilson 20
DTW 28 Berks Cath 21
DTW 22 Manheim Township 21
DTW 35 Cumberland Valley 14
DTW 44 Carlisle 13
Harrisburg 31 DTW 20
DTW 42 Altoona 13
State College 31 DTW 26
DTW 35 Chambersburg 21
W 7 L 2
Projected outcome of a CD/DTW match up (neutral field)
Central Dauphin 22 DTW 21
*****************************************************************************
DTE with Central Dauphin Schedule -Projected scores (all neutral field)
DTE 31 Wilson 26
DTE 31 Berks Cath 28
Manheim Township 27 DTE 26
DTE 38 Cumberland Valley 20
DTE 48 Carlisle 19
Harrisburg 35 DTE 21
DTE 44 Altoona 19
State College 35 DTE 28
DTE 38 Chambersburg 27
W 6 L 3
Projected outcome of a CD/DTE match up (neutral field)
Central Dauphin 28 DTE 22
Projected outcome of a Manheim Township/DTE match up (neutral field)
Manheim Township 27 DTE 26
@D3 Mike So you’re saying the State College, Harrisburg, Manheim Township, Wilson, and CD are not very good. I agree that D3 is also down a bit except for Harrisburg bjut these are still pretty good teams. My guess is that DTW and DTE would both have 2-4 losses if they had to play those teams. While I agree with you about the SOL historically has been very good but aside from North Penn they are also down this year. However, DTE and DTW are part of the weak Chestmont League. Although the National division is the best they are still well below the Mid Penn Commonwealth in ratings. Coatesville is the only outstanding team there. The BEST teams fall 3-4 TD’s or more under them while the rest are pretty much mercy rule fodder. Even Cumberland Valley, with their worst team in nearly 50 years, avoided being mercy ruled by Coatesville at Coatesville. In addition to conference games the D3 teams that CD and Manheim Township have played (each other, Berks Catholic, Warwick, Cocalico, Wilson) outside their conference are much better than the teams that DTE and DTW have played in the Chestmont, SOL and outside their conference. It’s not just me saying this it’s various rating sites (CalPreps/MaxPreps and Born) also. While not always perfect they are usually in the ballpark as to who is pretty good and who isn’t. Like I said before we’ll never get to see any of those teams play each other unless some upsets occur. While the D3 teams have lost decisively to the West teams such as PCC and North Allegheny and most recently Pine Richland not many eastern teams have played them close either except for St. Josephs Prep and occasionally LaSalle College. CD did win a state championship in 2011.
League ratings-2018
http://calpreps.com/2018/ratings/Pennsylvania_leagues.htm
@ Buddy
I was wondering the same thing. Saw on MaxPreps (granted I take things I see and read on that site with large grain of salt) they had PV @ Pottsgrove Friday night, and as I call the runner-up PAC game, Spring-Ford @ PJPII on Saturday at 1p.
Will the PV/Pottsgrove game be at Pottsgrove or neutral site?
@Jay – current power rankings are available on the DI website, as of today the top 16 teams are as follows, also noted Ridley at #17 for all the Ridley fans, you are correct about the top 3 but Coatesville and GV are reversed:
1) North Penn
2) Coatesville
3) Garnett Valley
4) DT West
5) Truman
6) Perk Valley
7) Haverford
8) DT East
9) Spring-Ford
10) Quakertown
11) Neshaminy
12) Pennsbury
13) Upper Darby
14) Owen J. Roberts
15) CR South
16) CB East
17) Ridley
As I’ve stated before I think Coatesville is significantly better this year than any team in D1, just like Pine Richland was significantly better than every team in the WPIAL last year, we’ll find out over the next month, but I would be very surprised if any team in D1 or D3 for that matter beats Coatesville, and if the D3 winner is not Harrisburg it could get ugly in the semi-finals against Coatesville.
@Jay
PIAA District 1 website has the playoff rankings.
Top 3 are pretty much locked in unless something bizarre happens. 1. North Penn 2. Coatesville 3. Garnet Valley
North Penn ends up #1 basically because they play an all 6A schedule and the fact that Coatesville ended up playing W.C Rustin who only played a 9 game schedule this year and Middletown South from NJ who only played 8 games. If they would have both played 10 game schedules Coatesville might have edged NP out with bonus points for #1.
Coatesville will edge out Garnet Valley for #2 (assuming both win Friday). They will both end up with the same number of win points but Coatesville has a nice lead in bonus points thanks to a tougher schedule.
@Knight Time – and same to you, don’t get lost when NP loses in the district quarters or semi-finals, you guys better hope you don’t draw Haverford in the quarterfinals or you could be in trouble, I don’t see them even making the final to get beat up by Coatesville. Last year it was pretty obvious early in the season that Pine Richland and SJP were the 2 best teams in 6A, this year it’s been equally obvious the 2 best teams are Coatesville and SJP. Can one of them get upset, of course, but highly unlikely.
I expect PR to win the WPIAL title, and I think SJP beats them by 2-3 scores this year, I could see a reversal of the score from last years final of 42-21 for SJP.
@D3 Mike – yes, the McDonough game was a bad loss for Wood, no doubt about it, but as usual they have gotten stronger as the season has gone on, and just ran the ball all over Lasalle over the weekend. Gateway’s defense is much improved, but whether they can stop the vaunted Wood running game is a whole other story, I’m just not sure Gateway has made up the huge gap from last year. I for one would not be surprised at all if Wood ends up in Hershey again, don’t see them getting challenged until they play the WPIAL winner in the semi-finals, I sure hope someone beats them because it would be nice for any school besides AW to win the 5A title.
@Mcd – agree with you about Egan, I can see them in Hershey taking on Aliquippa, who is a big favorite to get there from the west, also agree Berks Catholic has a good chance to beat Erie Prep this year assuming they can slow down Billy Lucas which they couldn’t do last year, winner will more than likely face Imhotep in the final.
Is there a way to see the current rankings in D1 6A? That would determine the playoff rankings I mean? I assume that North Penn, Garnet Valley and Coatesville would be 1-3 at this point even if Coatesville is considered better, since they have a couple wins over 5A schools, am I right?
I live in Coatesville but went to Downingtown (prior to the split) and would love to see CV, DTE or DTW go very far or even win the state championship. I know that Coatesville has the best shot out of the three, but I haven’t seen DTE play yet this year and am very excited to see them at CV this week.
Also I went to the DTW vs Shanahan game and I feel like despite their 8-1 record (and they’ll probably finish 9-1 based on their next opponent it seems) DTW could easily be beaten in the first round of districts. Big emotional win over DTE but almost lost to Shanahan and got absolutely smoked by Coatesville a couple weeks ago.
You can get 3 losses from playing great competition. Another way you can get 3 losses is from just not being very good. You’re saying the former and I’m claiming the latter, and I guess time will tell.
The D3 teams you cited often go 9-1 or 10-0 and proceed to get smoked in states. So, by extension, their 7-3 versions this year are probably not as good as year’s past, right? Meanwhile, the winner of the SOL has played for how many state titles now? And when they lose in the semi-finals, they are at least competitive.
I’m just not sure where you’re getting this supposed district strength from this year considering the district has posted all of one big school state title since they opened it up in 1994 and historically performs poorly in the semi-finals and the team records are all worse than usual.
@ D3 Mike…You get three losses when you play tough teams. You can play a bevy of inferior teams even if they are 6A like the DTE and DTW teams play and only lose once to Coatesville. This happens every year with the York county teams as I am sure you are well aware. Those teams come into the D3 playoffs with no or one loss seeded high and are usually gone after the second round. I’m not saying the schedule for DTE/DTW is York County easy but it’s not CD tough either. Playing inferior teams doesn’t mean a one loss team is better than a three loss team that has lost to State College, Manheim Township and Harrisburg. If you take strength of schedule into account these teams are also very good despite 3 losses. CD has also defeated Chambersburg, Berks Catholic, and Wilson. All those teams are better, at least according to several rating sites, than any team that DTW has beaten except DTE. Other than Coatesville and the other Downingtown team, Perkiomen Valley is the best team they have played. While Perk is a decent team they fall well below Chambersburg in the ratings. CD has played SIX teams rated higher than Perkiomen Valley. The three teams CD lost to are all rated as good or better than DTW by those same rating sites. I’m not saying CD or Manheim Township would give Coatesville a close game but they are solid squads and are just as good, especially CD and one loss Manheim Township, as the Downingtown teams IMO. Unfortunately, we will probably not get to see a match-up between any of those team because Coatesville is so dominant.
Calpreps PA Ratings
Coatesville 2
Harrisburg 6
State College 10
DTW 20
Manheim Township 21
Central Dauphin 23
DTE 32
Cedar Cliff 36
Berks Cath 45
Wilson 50
Chambersburg 57
Perkiomen Valley 67
I give Harrisburg the State College win but Central Dauphin and Wilson are 6A teams with 3 losses (with a lot of 5As on the schedule for Wilson). They are solid squads, either could win the district since they’ve done it so many times before, but Coatesville would probably have a running clock on them by halftime. It’s just not a great year for either program IMO. And D3-6A generally doesn’t look strong if you look at the records of the top teams this year compared to recent years. Also, the marquee wins for Cedar Cliff and CD are against 4A schools (albeit great 4A schools).
Meanwhile DTE and DTW are 8-1 (one a loss to Coatesville) while playing almost exclusively 6A programs in suburban Philadelphia. Maybe I give them too much credit but that league actually produces teams that play in the state title game at the highest class, regularly, so I feel like they’ve earned it. But to be fair I’d defer to some of the people who have seen SOL teams play this year.
If you’re saying 34-21 Coatesville you won’t get much of an argument out of me. I just wasn’t seeing any basis for expecting a Harrisburg win in a rematch short of “any given Friday”. And yeah, Warwick is having a great year. One of a couple sleepers with a puncher’s shot to upset Manheim at 5A.
RE: My post to D3 Mike Sorry…Warwick is a 5A team not 6A. My bad! They are tough though!
@D3 Mike While I agree that D3 6A is somewhat down this year I disagree that Harrisburg has played ‘meh’ teams. Harrisburg has played three teams the quality of DTE and DTW , those being Cedar Cliff (who beat Bishop McDevitt I might add), Central Dauphin and State College. I would argue that Harrisburg’s regular season schedule is stronger than Coatesville’s and the D3 playoffs will include the likes of Wilson,Warwick, Manheim Township, and Central Dauphin. In Cumberland Valley’s 1992 championship season they played Harrisburg during the regular season and won 38-0. They played Harrisburg once again in the D3 playoffs and had to scratch and claw to win 10-7. In the first game, some of the long catches were highly contested and yes there were several “trick’ plays that Coatesville used. Harrisburg also had quite a few new players around a solid nucleus so it’s sometimes hard to judge on a first game, especially when playing against many seasoned Coatesville skill players. Don’t count out Harrisburg just yet although Coatesville is the better team anything can happen in one game as we saw when that Harrisburg team who demolished everyone last year got beat by Governor Mifflin and their ball control on a sloppy field. If Harrisburg can survive D3 I would expect a much closer game perhaps in the order of 34-21.
I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing in Harrisburg. First, they had a better team last year, were playing at a lower level in 5A … and couldn’t make it to the district finals, let alone the state finals. It’s a big jump in class going up against the elite, greater-Philly teams, as they learned in getting trashed by Wood in ‘16.
Second, it wasn’t just trick plays and jump balls in Week 1. Coatesville had the game under control from start to finish, put up around 400 yards of total offense, and kept Harrisburg off the board with the exception of one bad snap.
Finally, Harrisburg is hurt by the Mid Penn and D3 being down overall at 6A this year. They basically will have beaten State College and a bunch of meh teams to get to the state semis. Coatesville will have beaten Harrisburg, Down East, Down West, and run the D1 6A playoff gauntlet, which is an even tougher set than usual this year.
Add in the St Joe’s Prep game last year and I think both the talent and tough-game experience favor Coatesville.
Hey D3, I think H-burg is a top team, but I watched the C’ville game — I’m pretty sure I remember C’ville pulling their starters — plus it was their first game too and they always improve as the season progresses. The other side of your equation seems flawed as well — SJP will probably be the favorite no matter who they play (P-R and NA might have something to say as well). Moreover, other than their QB, what playmakers does H-burg have? (I don’t remember any standouts from the C’ville game).
With all due respect to all the Coatesville lovers out there, but Harrisburg will beat Coatesville (or Garnett Valley if it’s them because Garnett Valley is a running team). Anyone who watched their first game saw that Coatesville didn’t beat Harrisburg as much as Harrisburg beat themselves. Coastesville hit some 50/50 jump balls and hit a few trick plays but they didn’t move the ball up and down the field on Harrisburg. Harrisburg probably has the best defense in the state at any level (top 3 at least). No team is going to run the ball on them. I am fairly certain Harrisburg hasn’t given up 100 yards rushing to anyone this year, including to Coatesville, and also Ortega had a lot of pressure in that Harrisburg game too. Lastly, Harrisburg will also have a bye week the week before playing Coatesville, assuming Coatesville makes it out of D1. I think Harrisburg ends up in the state championship game vs whoever comes out of the west(PR or NA), er…east (SJP).
Jeff, I’m usually big on “the champ is the champ until someone beats them” but I’m going to make an exception for Wood. I’ve been skeptical since they lost to a middling McDonogh team (2-4 out of Baltimore) in week 1.
For comparison, the following two weeks McDonogh proceeded to lose to both Berks Catholic and Malvern Prep, so I don’t think Wood is even a top 4, 5A team this year let alone the team to beat. Btw I saw Malvern Prep in person and they might be the best non-PIAA school I’ve seen in quite awhile. Would probably win 5A this year.
Sorry, can’t answer your question on the QB but I think Gateway would be the stronger team with or without him.
Hey Bubba C,
As a Coatesville fan, I think they can be beat. In general, they are H.S. kids, they have committed (or been called for) a lot of penalties, the H.S. game is short, it could be raining or snowing, they could cough up some turnovers, or they could play on a muddy, tundra-like field that could slow them down. Specifically, some issues I have seen this year are as follows: 1. Although they have a huge O-line, it seems like they have problems sometimes with run and pass protection. 2. They don’t feed the rock to Young or Bryant enough. 3. A team that can grid out first downs and eat a lot of clock would definitely limit their scoring ability and keep a game close. 4. Not sure their pass defense is up to snuff — can a good passing team stay with them? 5. Special teams — it’s great that coach Ortega lets a lot of guys play, but I think you should have your best personnel out there on kick-offs (WC burned them last week). With all that being said, I don’t see any defense stopping them. Yeah, Coatesville lost to SJP last year, but I don’t think any team lit up the vaunted Prep D like C’ville did, and their offense might be better this year.
Jeff H , Archbishop Wood may run out of gas this year and for sure the next few years based on what I have seen and their roster. They could make a run this year if Colyar returns which I hear is doubtful. St Joes/ Coatsville final which most folks are predicting would be a shootout for sure. I like the Prep in another close one. Watch out for Conwell/Egan in AAA . Their RB Garwo is a beast. So Columbia should be a 2 TD winner over any of the other finalist . Imhotep can be a tough opponent , but Berks is my pick in AAAA.
@Jeff H please don’t get lost when the districts are over and it’s time to comment when the rubber meets the road.
@ Matt – Is Delone AAA or AA? I thought they (and york catholic) were AA. I could be incorrect.
CoalRgnFrballFan….Both are AA teams