Are you ready for some football?
Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2025 season.
During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams, and everything about high school football.
During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.
1,629 Responses
Individual Championship game attendance numbers taken from the PIAA website’s game boxscores:
A Unknown (guessing the least attended)
2A 1,603
3A 1,804
4A 2,119
5A 1,891
6A 2,158
PA might want to consider the system California uses. Student population is not a factor. It is a combination of a power rating system that combines strength of schedule with an annual realigning (like Soccer in Europe ). Still has 5 Divisions, but all 5 divisions are filled with the best teams in the state from the start of district playoffs. For Example, a big public might make the Division 5 playoffs with a record of 5-6, rip off 5 playoff wins, beat a 15-0 small (but very good) private school in the state finals. Its not perfect, but you usually wind up having 10 outstanding teams in the finals of every division. The downside is a small school who plays an easy schedule might miss out on the playoffs altogether, even if they go undefeated during the regular season.
The state football playoffs have been for the most part with some exception been played before small crowds with what seems like from TV not much atmosphere. I love high school football been following it most of my life but i think football might be the sport least suited to tournament play. Basketball is the the one sport that I couldnt imagine without a tournament the atmospheres are almost always great leading up to the finals but even those arent as good since they moved from the old Hershey Arena. Many factors play into it the weather turns nasty at times the location is a longgg way for many to travel. They wont ever do this but it might be kind of cool to move the championships around every few yrs. Let the East host it some yrs, West others.
Idk if you are old enough to remember playoff and championship games from the 90’s, but it wasn’t always like this.
Yep I do remember it was different in the 90s, be nice to see that return but just seems to be in rut of not alot of excitement around it except for the schools who are there and even they have to be somewhat dissappointed with the crowds/atmosphere.
If the number Bob Greenburg gave for total attendance is correct, that would put the A game at 1,146.
We are talking about competitive balance in football. Look no further than wrestling to see how pathetic the piaa is. Faith Christian academy is double aa. They have 1 wrestler who is from Florida, he wrestled in Florida last year. Why are these schools not banned from the piaa. Bishop mccorts best wrestler is from north Carolina, cmon
wait…do these kids still live in Florida or NC? neither school that I know of is a boarding school or did the families move here just for wrestling?
Couldn’t agree more, it’s an absolute joke that FCA is allowed to compete in AA. Honestly, with only two classes, I don’t see a reason why the PIAA wouldn’t either force all private schools up to AAA, or create a third private-only class.
Never has a double aa school in Pennsylvania been the best in the state of pa. We now have 2 private double aa schools who are the top two teams in the country. Bishop mccort was banned from competing for 2 years in wrestling and since then they have gotten worse. The piaa is totally disregarding anything these two schools do. The pathetic part is these schools choose to wrestle in the smallest class. It’s pathetic of the piaa, it’s pathetic for these school administrations and it’s pathetic for these coaches.
The best wrestling programs across the state are, mind you, like this — and the difference is that the juggernauts are not clustered around anywhere unlike football where you know PCL has most of the top talent and will come in like a threshing machine. Here, it’s connected to a couple really good coaches/programs that blow everyone else into the dust. And PA is uniquely good as a wrestling state.
I recently saw 8 of PA’s #1 ranked AA wrestlers are from either Faith Christian or Bishop McCort. I guess they just don’t care about fairness in dual meets anymore?
What?
Per Tweet from Bob Greenburg, sports reporter in the District 10 area:
“PIAA Football attendance for all 6 state final games was 10,721.”
Too many classes.
Pretty sad numbers. I would guess pretty much what you might expect, 1A the least and either 5A or 6A the most. Wouldn’t be surprised if 5A had the most since McDevitt is only like 20 mins away.
Just posted each game’s figs. I’ll assume the “A” game was least. 6A was the best. Pretty consistent numbers across the board.
Anyone want to take a guess at the best and least attended games??
I saw on Twitter yesterday that the QB from the Pennington School is transferring to Roman Catholic for his senior season. Holds multiple D1 offers already. I thought if you transfer after 9th grade, you are ineligible for playoffs for the following year. Wouldn’t make sense to transfer this late unless he is granted eligibility.
Great name for a QB!!!
Who knows why he is transferring. Many reasons someone transfers, not just for athletic purposes. Believe he is from Philly, so just coming home?? Yes, it depends on if the district deems him eligible for the post season or not.
Doubt he will be eligible for the playoffs. LaSalle had a stud linebacker from Imhotep transfer in for his Jr year this year. He had to sit out the playoffs.
There is a different group of kids every year. Why take away the opportunity from them? I guarantee if they moved up and won 3A, people would still complain. I saw some guys on another board saying that didn’t like watching the wing-T because it was too boring and of course that would never work in the higher classes.
Back in the day, MCA voluntarily played up to 3A because our coach thought we belonged with the big schools. So instead of possibly winning state titles, we were just “competitive” in 3A.
In the beginning of this year, I thought no way is SC winning it all this year. They went 7-5 last year, had no big names or D1 recruits and lost the first game of the year. I’m more impressed with how this years team won it all than any of their previous teams.
As I see it, the MAJOR problem with the “success” clause is that it UNFAIRLY targets the small schools. A successful 5A school can only get bumped one time and a 6A school, none at all. Let’s say that SCA chooses to move up to 3A and has success there. The PIAA would force them up to 4A. The Tigers have obviously had certain teams who could compete there…so long as they had no injuries. That’s the critical part of moving small schools up to the larger enrollment schools. An injury to a key player in a small school is much more difficult to overcome than with a big school. It’s really just simple math. I believe that coach Roth’s commitment is to his team, and not to the mere sentiments of other fans. I don’t think that Jim Roth wishes to put his future teams in the same position that Aliquippa finds itself in. If the PIAA FORCES them to move up, so be it. But he won’t have a hand in voluntarily making the mountain for upcoming teams steeper, more rocky and higher. JMHO.
for glenn and mca75, i believe you both make excellent points. as a d2 observer and a dunmore bucks follower i think so.columbia should compete against schools of the same size. why should they be (punished) for their success. as stated the kids change year to year. they should have a fair shot at success. and for a selfish reason, i want the team i’m rooting for to conquer the best. once again congratulation’s to coach roth and the tigers.
I am in agreement that they should not be forced to play higher than required. If I were SCA, I might consider 3A just to see if we could do it and to give the program an additional challenge, seeing as SCA has accomplished basically all there is to accomplish at the 2A level. But, it’s their prerogative and last year showed that they’re not invincible. Winning a state championship as a public school is hard no matter who you are.
Totally agree with everything you said.
@ Glenn & MCA75 – both of you guys make legitimate points and I respect your opinions. As a neutral observer who just wants to see competitive games I would like to see how SCA would do in 3A for a 2yr cycle, given they have won 2A 8 times in the last nine years. I have nothing at all against SCA and coach Jim Roth, obviously his record speaks for itself, we’ll likely never see another coach like him in the future in PA.
Well, another season has come & gone! My third full season of discussing D2 & the state has come to an end. It was quite a fun season!
I’ll admit. I wasn’t as in tune with the rest of the state this year, as I was before. However, I still enjoy following HS football across PA (& around the country). Now, I don’t have a career in it or ever would consider it, but I always have that passion for it. Maybe it’s because I went to a school that didn’t (& still doesn’t) have a good football history & isn’t really a program. I think that’s a good thing as although I still support my Alma Mater, even if I don’t go to the games, I do find myself respecting the programs in & out of the state.
I appreciate the support & compliments when it comes to the D2 notes & picks. I’m sure it’s a bit tiresome to scroll through large paragraphs of picks (wonder if I should spreadsheet it in the future), but I like making predictions & talking about the important games in the state, even if the teams aren’t juggernauts.
I’ve said it every year. I’m probably half the age of a majority of the people on here, but I feel like I know a lot & have learned a lot, though still have more to learn. I don’t analyze like analysts do. I never played the game. I go off of the lens of a fan who’s following along, some places in more casual fashion than others. What I see. What I feel in my gut when it comes to making predictions. I follow all the local papers, sports sites, & websites like this to get to know the state of the sport. I’m curious to know whether traditional powerhouses are good or down. I’m always a fan of the underdog story & will talk a lot about the smaller schools & weaker teams (Montrose, Shen Valley, CMVT, ES North, etc.), as I feel the teams like those deserve to be seen & heard. Sometimes a rivalry win for them is like a state title.
I’m looking forward to the upcoming 26-27 PIAA football cycle & will be curious if this is the last two-year cycle before the public/private bill is fully passed & kicks in & we have a changed landscape like in our neighbor states.
I’ll still pop in during the offseason. I know that D2 schedules will be out hopefully by January, so I’ll share some interesting scheduling notes. Maybe we’ll have a coaching change or two that’s still under wraps (Scranton’s looking for one, I believe, so stay tuned).
For now, if I don’t pop back in here much until the New Year, I hope you guys have a great Christmas & holiday season.
Appreciate you contribution to the board, have a nice Christmas and New Year!
Agreed!!
The same to the both of you!!
2021 is probably the gold standard when it comes to entertainment value for State title games Look at the area where these teams are from
Mt. Lebanon 35, St. Joseph’s Prep 17 Mt Leb WPIAL
Penn-Trafford 17, Imhotep Charter 14 PT WPIAL
Aliquippa 34, Bishop McDevitt 27 Quips WPIAL
Central Valley 7, Wyomissing Area 0 CV WPIAL + Wyo D3 powerhouse
Southern Columbia 62, Serra Catholic 25 SC Top Public School Program in the State
Bishop Guilfoyle 21, Redbank Valley 14
Where’s District 1? Where 5A and 6A programs are a joke! It wasn’t always this way, North Penn won a 6A championship, Dan Connor’s Strath Haven’s teams were as good as any in the State….remember the recruiting complaints about Strath Haven back in the day. What happened? If North Penn-District 1 champ and one of the largest schools in PA were to play 3A State Champ Avonworth this season, I would pick Avonworth to win that game. Something happened in the last 20 years. Lacrosse, Soccer emphasis? Interest in playing football waning? The privates where there 20 years ago, it didn’t matter, Public school programs in D1 were good. I don’t want to see the Publics and Privates separated, NJ has the A teams-(Private Schools) and the B teams-(public schools) D1 has to start producing teams that can compete and beat the Catholic League 5A and 6A schools like they did in the past. Moving up Roman Catholic to 6A…..they will repeat next year if they stay in 5A and McDevitt…no 5A team has the talent to beat them in D3 makes perfect sense.
Is it really hard to understand District 1? District 1’s location has to battle with 13 PCL Teams, 6 Inter-Ac Teams, plus multiple teams in DE to keep the players home. So the best middle school (sometimes earlier) are leaving District 1 and heading private. Most parts in the state are not fighting this battle as direct as District 1. 20+ years ago the privates did exist but it wasn’t the way it is now. You had to live in certain parishes to go to schools. Do you honestly think the best coaches just magically forgot how to coach in the past 20 years? District 1 doesn’t get a chance to prove itself against anyone else for the most part except for the Eastern Final vs the multi-state all star teams from District 12. It is a numbers game and the best players leaving creates voids. Now with all the transfers, District 1 will have a hard time competing when District 12 is the wild west. Need a QB? Don’t worry about developing an underclassman, just find the next transfer. Need some line help? Poach the kid from the public district. District 1 is true public school football. Change some of the coaches out and guarantee the same results. It takes talent to win games. Dave Gueriera was 16-18 in 3 years at WC East and now running a powerhouse at Malvern. What changed? Talent or coaching?
That doesn’t explain why North Penn’s 2016 team would have mercy ruled this years team, or why 2017 Coatesville played a very competitive game with SJP and almost beat them. Also, for the 2018-19 cycle D12 was moved to the western bracket, so it was D1 vs. D3 in the eastern final, and D3 beat them both times. I understand the PCL and Inter-AC siphon off some of the best players, but that can’t be the only explanation for the decline of quality teams from DI over the last decade.
It’s definitely not the only reason just an easy excuse for whatever might ail 6a district one teams. I don’t think the quality of coaching is what it once was for many reasons some of which are not the fault of the coaches . The number of players on the rosters has definitely dropped with a few exceptions. There just seems to be a major drop off in physicality from yrs gone by. All the spread offenses play into that. Athlete’s not playing multiple sports as much as they used too. Different mind set of kids today and I’m not saying all but many who don’t necessarily want to deal with the work that is required to play football at a high level.
I agree with you about D1, hard to believe they haven’t won a state title since NP in 2003. They came close a few times, both NP and Coatesville had epic games with SJP 8-9 years ago, and Cheltenham almost beat Wood in the 5A final in 2019, but that’s about it as far as D1 goes. I too think Avonworth would beat NP, and they would beat most of the teams in the WPIAL, I would only put PCC, Pine Richland and Peters ahead of them, they are as good or better than every other team in the WPIAL this year. That’s both a compliment to how good Avonworth is, and also how down the WPIAL is compared to a decade ago, there’s no way a 3A (or in the old days 2A) team would be a top 5 WPIAL team in the past.
Jeff H, exactly right you know more about the western half then I do but there has to be more factors then the private -public issue especially out west where there arent as many private schools. Many other things have come into play over the yrs.
PA has the A teams and B teams as well. They just do not have the good sense to separate them come playoff time.