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2017 Football Forum

Written by: on Sunday, January 1st, 2017

Are you ready for some football?

Welcome to the official forum on high school football for the 2016 season.

During the off-season let’s talk about players, recruiting news, teams and everything about high school football.

During the season each week let’s talk about match-ups and how teams did. Let us know what player(s) stood out each week.

2016 Football Forum

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159 Responses to “2017 Football Forum”

  1. Rick D says:

    @Franklin @mark d

    I am more of a WVC guy but DV has huge numbers and a couple really good football players returning. Dunmore will continue to be consistent. I just wish they would choose to play a tougher regular season schedule. I think they could be better prepared to advance further by playing a tougher schedule.

    As far as the WVC goes….it is bad. The small school WVC football has become awful. Who knows (and who cares) what teams might win 6 or 7 games. They all stink for the most part.

    Big school WVC is a little better but not much. Everyone seems to think Valley West will have a down year because they lose Judge but they return 14 or 15 starters. I think WVW will be very good. Williamsport has Potts back who can dominate any game. Berwick loses a ton of seniors but have their QB back. Coughlin has 3 very good players returning to their backfield. This could be the year Hazleton wins some games based on what they have returning.

    Can anyone more familiar with the Lack League respond with info on AH, NP, SP, Scranton and West Scranton??

  2. sausmann9 says:

    @ mark d – Dunmore always tough but if people are saying this could be their best line ever and an athletic quarterback, damn they will be fun to watch. Love Dunmore Bucks football, epitome of PA football.

  3. mark d says:

    @Franklin D2 it been real quiet i think the only 2 team that have anything is Delaware Valley and of course Dunmore. People are quietly saying this could be the best line Dunmore ever had. of course they have top replace a lot of skill players. qb will probably win the states in the javelin throw (AA) so you have a kid with a strong arm

  4. D4 ball says:

    Very true Brian. Southern made leaps and bounds from where they started last year. And for people questioning southerns schedule they did play a very good mountousville team controlled that game and also played a very good selinsgrove team who was on a roll at that time. No matter who they played in the regular season they played pretty much lights out

  5. Kevin X says:

    @ Pastor Z

    Thanks for the info. Hard to believe a HS school and school district the size of C’Ville, and with their athletics history don’t have an AD.

    Looks like Bensalem would be the perfect fit for that 9/8-9 open date week. It appears that they still have an open date that week too. Saw that CRN and Pennwood decided to hook up that weekend. With C’Ville already having 5 away games, might be even harder trying to get a home game that weekend. Still hoping for an Imhotep/C’Ville match-up 🙂

  6. Brian says:

    Yes D-4 SCA was tied with Mt. Carmel at half last year. But you have to remember it was week 3 and the team was still pretty inexperienced with all the freshmen playing. Southern was also losing to Shamokin 14-13 at halftime in week 1 before taking over in the 2nd half. I think had both those games been played late regular season it wouldn’t have been close in the first half. But it’s high school football and anything can happen.

  7. D4 ball says:

    Mount Carmel returns a very good line but loses their TE. interested to see them play Southern again was tied at halftime last year before southern took over.

  8. PastorZack says:

    @Kevin X- No, Coatesville still has an open slot for week 2 since Council Rock North backed out. They have had numerous schools (Bensalem, Penn Wood, Glen Mills) say “No” to scheduling. Simon Gratz wanted to back out of their agreement this year as well. Heck, they even have all three open dates for next year. That most likely falls on the fact that they do not have an AD at the present time.

  9. 2016KTM says:

    @ Mike from Mount Carmel. What does MCA have returning this season. My understanding is that MCA have quite a few returning.

  10. McD 65 says:

    phillyboy, I followed Swift since his Freshman year and yes,he was a special player. Hope all goes well for him at Georgia. I was hoping for a PSU commitment ,but Oh well.

  11. McD 65 says:

    D 12 FAN, Thanks for the info on Wood and St Joe Prep. You appear to know about D 12 and its schools and players. Don’t be a stranger here.

  12. mike from Mount Carmel says:

    ktm, they faced a talented selinsgrove team in the regular. Plus Montoursville gave them a little trouble. Also the schuylkill haven game was sloppy on both sides. Tigers had alot of penalties.

  13. Kevin X says:

    Hey guys, anybody know if Coatesville scheduled a game for the third week (guess officially that is week 2?), Sept. 8/9?

    Any idea when the District 12 schedules will be released/updated? I saw some PCL schedules on MaxPreps, but don’t know how accurate they are, I take some items from their website with a grain of salt.

    Wishful thinking I know, but would love to see Imhotep take a little ride out to western Chester County for Friday night tilt against C’Ville that open weekend.

  14. 2016KTM says:

    Correction below, meant to say Schuylkill haven in playoffs..

  15. 2016KTM says:

    In reference to D4 post below. Yes, SCA is loaded. No team will touch them in regular season. They will Mercy rule many of their regular season. SCA, great tradition , great coaching, probably the best in state. One thing though, their schedule is weak. There was only one team that gave them a good run and that was Schuylkill Haven. Yes, a Schuylkill league team. The other team was in playoffs. Dont remember the name. Last year season is long gone. Take away the costly turnovers, miscues by Schuylkill haven….upset.

  16. Franklin says:

    How do you think district 2 will turn out?

  17. phillyboy says:

    McD 65 ….that’s a good question, no idea who the feature back will be at Prep, but one thing I do know is that there will be a drop off. Are you kidding me, that Swift kid was arguably the best high school RB in the country last year. I watched his hudl highlights the other day for the first time; it was like 20 straight minutes of 50 yard TD runs. You never know how things will go but I’d be very surprised if we don’t see him in the NFL in a few years. If he gets into a good groove at Georgia could even see him vying for the Heisman. It’s going to be fun this fall on some Saturday afternoon coming back from the gym, grab a snack and watch my fellow Philly boy go to town.

  18. D12FAN says:

    McD

    Prep used so Marques Mason and Fr Kolbe Burrell, both should compete in 17 and can be exciting, plus will be interesting if so LB Talley plays O this year…Wood has a few in addition to Peoples (Va Tech) who will should see significant more touches from RB and Slot. Add so’s Blackstone and Pendleton both powerful runners with speed and similar styled Jr Bauer, plus others to compete….Both have a lot to replace but should back fill with solid guys, no voids. I see fewer 80 yard break away’s thru traffic like swift, blackshear, waller and thompson. Prep has options and Wood should have another 1-2 punch with serious depth….Also, both will have state championship experienced QB’s returning with very scary targets in Simmons (prep) Va Tech and Pitts (Wood), many offers including Bama, to start with….Should be another fun season, with both playing florida teams and North jersey powerhouses…

  19. D4 Fan says:

    @ mike from MC

    Nobody in District 4 can compete with them. And probably no team in the Eastern half of the state. Maybe in the State semis or finals they will meet up with someone that’ll give’em a game.

  20. mike from Mount Carmel says:

    what do we think of southern columbia this year anyone going to compete with them?

  21. McD 65 says:

    Can anyone provide information on who the Rbs will be for Archbishop Wood and St Joe Prep this year ? Those teo teams face a difficult beginning of the year schedules and they both lost very good RBs from last year. Thanks

  22. FridayNightLights says:

    @phillyboy

    Marquez McCray is from the Lansdale area and playes middle school ball for Penndale in the NP district. Based on what I have heard about the kid I would say it’s highly unlikely he transfers back. Would be amazing if he did though.

  23. phillyboy says:

    Yeah I think North Penn would have won the state title last year had they gotten by Saint Joe’s Prep. Pittsburgh Central Catholic was a powerful team despite their big loss to Prep. Best case scenario see them winning by 17 points if their offense was clicking. Oh well. Btw, speakiing of QBs overheard some folks at the North Penn/Prep game last year saying that Prep’s QB was or is from the North Penn catchment. If that’s true would be awesome if he transferred back to the home team for his senior year. That’s scenario is not unprecedented; a LaSalle kid a couple years ago transferred back to his home team, Upper Dublin.

  24. FridayNightLights says:

    @PastorZack

    That would be a heckuva rematch. I also think there is a pretty good possibility of it too! Like I said, NP looks strong but needs to get that small little issue of a QB locked down. If they can do that they should be in good shape. Coatesville will scare a lot of people this year…very good team.

  25. Buddy says:

    @ Pastor

    I’m saying C’ville will be the D1 favorite. Absolutely loaded. Only a team like LAST years NP could beat them. Don’t think NP has the team this year to match C’ville. Of course………I hope I’m wrong.

    @ Friday

    Agree, that was the best team since “03. Even though the ’11 team went to states.

  26. PastorZack says:

    @Buddy– D1 playoffs will be interesting if North Penn has to travel to Coatesville for a rematch this year. If Coatesville beats Cumberland Valley in Mechanicsburg and Downingtown West in Downingtown, we may have ourselves a game with D1 on the line. So far, teams have been reluctant to schedule the Red Raiders for their open date. They have had multiple schools say “No, Thank you” for a game.

  27. FridayNightLights says:

    @Buddy

    That was a really fun team last year. Only St Joe’s could beat them. I would go so far as to say they might have been the best NP team I have seen since ’03. Was a great game in the East final last year. If they could find some semblance of a QB this year I expect them to be better than expected again. This is knowing some of the underclassmen in the program.

  28. sausmann9 says:

    @Yotch – don’t count out Liberty. they bring back Ernie and a bunch of young talent, if they don’t lose anyone to Becahi or Freedom over the summer they will be good.

  29. Buddy says:

    @Friday

    Yes, it was the backup junior I was thinking about.

    Other then that, I got nothing.

    That was a really good team last year. The only team in the state that could have beat them……………..did.

  30. Yotch says:

    It appears that Emmaus & Parkland are the two best D11 AAAAAA teams next year. Emmaus returns pretty much their entire O outside of QB. They return a lot of their D too. Kicker was good and he’s gone too.
    Parkland returns key cogs and has a good feeder program with a large enrollment. It’ll be very interesting this year.

  31. FridayNightLights says:

    @Buddy,

    They did have a Junior QB who was their backup but I believe there were two other kids, a sophomore and a freshman that were looking to potentially in the mix. I swear I also saw or heard somewhere that a QB from Norristown has been working out and playing 7v7 with the NP kids but I know nothing about him. You can’t just replace a Udinski unfortunately.

  32. Buddy says:

    @ Friday

    I heard they have a kid, soph I believe, that was in the ranks last year. Can’t recall his name.
    Nothing like Udinski though. I’ll see if I can catch his name sometime.

  33. FridayNightLights says:

    Does anybody have any intel on who North Penn’s starting QB is expected to be this year? I am a NP fan but haven’t heard too much other than potentially someone who played at Norristown last year. They have a very talented roster and similar to last year will return a lot more than people think.

  34. Tyler says:

    Class of 2018 receiver Jason Najunas out of Shenandoah Valley reportedly garnering interest from multiple D2 schools.

  35. dave says:

    Mr. Green its funny as soon as Soco put their starters back in, south managed to put 11 completely new players on the field so i pretty sure you had enough players. They were just trying to make a complete blow out look closer than it really was

  36. Mike says:

    @ Larry The Redskins will start senior Mike Creszenzo at RB and it looks like sophomore Brody McAndrews will start at QB. I don’t think Abington has enough to finish at the top and it doesn’t look like Pennsbury has enough on their roster to compete. I think Bensalem could be competitive and finish towards the top.

  37. agreen says:

    I agree. SCA has a great coaching staff

  38. TomF says:

    I will say this about SCA, watched them play Berks Catholic 2 years ago and I only saw 2 other teams that were on par with their coaching staff-Cb West under Mike Pettine and Berwick under George Curry. I can see why they won all of those State Championships and why families move to that SD to play football for Roth.

  39. agreen says:

    As far as leaving starters in too long in a district championship game, I’m thinking roster size would have a lot to do with that. If i had to guess towards the end of a season most small schools have little to no position depth unless you sub in kids that aren’t ready for the varsity level.

  40. agreen says:

    SCA4ever, I’m not taking jabs at SCA in particular especially about recruiting but explain to me why those rumors have been flying around for years and why are SCA fans so sensitive about that? If it’s not true then dont worry about the “haters”.

  41. Kmac says:

    Mike Smoll

    Thank you, Mike. I forgot the Hatters were coming back somewhat under NP alum Kapusta and staff. Chung, also NP alum at P-W has also always been near the top. Stover approaching legend status at UD, and Banas doing a fine job at Q-town. I rarely get to see any of them.

  42. Route54 says:

    Thanks.

  43. Mike Smoll says:

    Kmac, well I was looking forward to it, but…. I kept no notes from last year and couldn’t begin to do it either. From what I know/heard, I’ve got to believe PW will be the favorite, HH, Upper Dublin and Quakertown to follow in no particular order. Both Upper Dublin and Quakertown’s JV teams were very good last year, but it’s a big jump from JV to Varsity.

  44. Billy Splain says:

    not til mid July

  45. Route54 says:

    Speaking of only 3 months away, when are the team previews starting.

  46. Dave says:

    What’s WVW(2) got going for them this year?

  47. SCA4Ever says:

    Aaron Green. If you were merely stating that South and their coach are doing a great job then why the jab at SCA regarding Vo Tech and recruiting? You knew exactly what you were doing. Thank you for the locker room material. SCA hopes they play South next year. South ruffled some feathers by keeping starters in against second group during D4 game. Two late scores made the game look close.

  48. Kmac says:

    Michael Smoll

    I do not feel I am familiar enough with the SOL American to give a proper “way too early”. My local newspaper does not cover that conference, and I see few games with teams in that conference. For instance, while I have seen pennsbury 207 times; Neshaminy 159; Council Rock (North) 139; I have seen Cheltenham, Wissahickon, Upper Dublin twice each, and Upper Moreland, but once; in 1953. Just from a distance it looks like the Quakertown-PW-Upper Dublin trio holds the conference strength.

  49. Michael Smoll says:

    Looking forward to the SOL American “Way too Early”, Just knowing the conference as I do, it could be a real interesting year, Upper Dublin, lost a ton, Quakertown lost a lot.

  50. D3fan says:

    What’s coming out of District 3 this year? I’m hearing that Fairfield have a decent squad returning with plenty of returning players. Any truth to this.

  51. Michael Smoll says:

    Hey Kmac, loved the first two articles of “Way too early” is the American Conference coming soon?

  52. Kmac says:

    Mike Smoll

    Thank you for your interest and comment regarding my way too early thinking on Sub One Continental. You may certainly be right-on with the Rams; Tarburton may well be conference MVP and that means a lot. The clock is ever ticking, soon Dave will be in his 100 players in 100 days; and before the summer heat dissapates we will have high school football again!

  53. aaron green says:

    First of all I never mentioned SCA so obviously there must be others that have come to your assumptions. Not to mention why would I think they should be AAA? I don’t hate anyone and am not trying to start something. Seems like some of you are a little sensitive. My comments were about giving credit to South Williamsport and their coaching staff.

  54. Fupesheks says:

    ????? ????????? naizmene.cc

  55. SCA4Ever says:

    Aaron Green come on. Are u serious? Do some homework. SCA has 153 boys. SW has 157. The cutoff for AA/AAA is 200 boys. Do u really believe SCA sends 47 boys to Vo-Tech? Ridiculous theory. Next, recruiting. SCA has played in 15 state title games. Who in their right mind would not want to have their son play for that football team. No need to recruit.

  56. Brian says:

    Lol. Love the idiotic little jab at sca with the hiding numbers at vo-tech and recruiting comment. Again another hater. There’s no hiding students at vo-tech. Any student who goes there plays sports there because vo-tech had their own sports program. The other silly thing is sca is AA and the amount of students attending vo-tech wouldn’t make them AAA. Kids do move in but it’s not recruiting. For most it’s relocating because they live in shamokin or mt.carmel and those areas are declining. For the others it’s called they want to go to a winning program that is successful year in and year out. its not recruiting it’s called parents relocating so their child has a better experience. All schools have that happen. It’s just people complain about southern because they’re so good every year.

  57. D4 Fan says:

    South Williamsport is a solid team and they appear to do a lot with a small roster. But D4 AA belongs to Southern Columbia and everyone else is fighting to be the sacrificial lamb in the D4 title game.

    And it should be a good battle for second as Mt. Carmel returns everyone, Central Columbia returns a lot and might have the best young QB in the district, Bloomsburg made great strides last year and the Northern Tier entries, Wellsboro and North Penn have improved significantly over the past few years. Wish it were August!

  58. billtown says:

    Aaron You are correct. Coach Eiswerth has done a great job. Did you know he commutes over 100 miles every day plus coaches? Unbelievable. Unfortunately they are in the same district and class as Southern and I just don t see them ever getting over that very large hump. I hear SCA is loaded again this year so I hope I am wrong but history tells me when SCA is not crying about lost stars they usually dominate. Should be a good game though!

  59. aaron green says:

    I am biased in my opinion but anyone who lists top five 2A schools in the East and doesn’t include South Williamsport needs to realize what head coach Chris Eiswerth has built there. One of the smallest 2A schools in the state and it doesn’t have the luxury of hiding numbers in a Vo-tech school and can’t recruit. Seems like every year under Eiswerth they have a shot at making a run.

  60. billtown says:

    D4 fan if number 1 is back you are correct he is a wrecking ball.

  61. Tom F says:

    Albie Crosby could be returning to Coaching, an article in Sunday’s Philly Inquirer stated that he is a finalist for the Neumann Goretti job. That should be a no brainer for NG. Albie will turn NG into a power in a very short time.

  62. Coalrgnftballfan says:

    Southern Columbia’s freshman receiver Julian Fleming has received an offer from Michigan. Invited for a visit to PSU. Rumor is West Virginia and Pitt will be making offers in the near future. He also averaged approx. 17 ppg this season in basketball.

  63. PastorZack says:

    2017 Projected Ches-Mont standings

    National Division

    Coatesville 7-0
    Downingtown East 6-1
    WC Henderson 5-2
    Downingtown West 5-2
    Bishop Shanahan 4-3
    WC East 2-5
    Avon Grove 1-6

    American Division

    Unionville 5-1
    Great Valley 4-2
    WC Rustin 3-3
    Sun Valley 2-4
    Oxford 1-5
    Kennett 0-6

  64. Kmac says:

    General

    My “possible” 2017 standings for the Suburban One National and Continental Conferences.

    National – 1. Neshaminy 2. Abington 3. Council Rock South 4. Bensalem 5. Truman 6. Pennsbury 7. Council Rock North

    Continental – 1. North Penn 2. CB East 3. CB West 4. Pennridge 5. CB South 6. Tennent 7. Souderton

    For the logic for the choices see my articles on each conference under Extras – Archives – Kmac

  65. Kmac says:

    Larry

    For Kmac’s take on both Suburban One National and Continental see my “Way Too Early” articles – click on “extras’ top right, then “archives” and Kmac. They are my last two articles written.

  66. Dave says:

    Lance, of the 2, I believe Montoursville takes the bigger graduation hit, losing 4 all-staters and a few other quality players. They do however, return almost all of their linemen and some other good players. It will be interesting to see how the new kids step up to the challenge.

  67. Larry says:

    6A Suburban One predictions? Redskins receiving core looks stacked, but who will be the starting QB and RB for the Redskins? Does Abington have a chance at finishing at the top? Does Pennsbury improve enough to compete this year?

  68. D4 Fan says:

    Danville will be the class of D4 AAA. They return just about everyone from the team that smoked Loyalsock and came up short against Montoursville in last year’s D4 playoffs.

  69. Lance says:

    Interested to see how Good Loyalsock and Montoursville can be this season coming up in District 4-AAA. Both look to have a Nice Group of Players returning.

  70. Gregory Wacik says:

    The newly formed FASST Lehigh Valley Elite 7 on 7 team made some noise this weekend in the Maryland Team Flex tournament. In their first ever tournament they nearly defeated the number one seed in the preliminary seeding round. Time expired with them driving at the 5 yard line down by a TD. Seeded 18 out of 40 for the tournament bracket, they followed up by defeating the number 2 seed team and made it to the quarter finals before losing. Turned some heads in the region and 7 on 7 circuit. The team has players from Bethlehem Catholic, Northampton, Easton, Stroudsburg, Phillipsburg and I believe some others. Some talented players in the EPC. They compete in the Spooky Nook competition next week.

  71. sausmann9 says:

    Big 33 game moved from Hershey and now being played June 17 at Central Dauphin MS.

  72. Neutral Observer says:

    There is an interesting conversation going on on the WesternPAFootball forum about new transfer rules that are being discussed.

    ================================

    Billy Splain says:
    March 22nd, 2017 at 2:16 pm

    It’s actually a proposal being worked on right now. Instead of defining a transfer by school district, the transfer will be defined by the school building itself. So, if a player from Abraham Lincoln wanted to transfer to Overbrook, he would face the same scrutiny as a player from Abington school district transferring to North Penn school district. Or to use a recent case, a player from Bishop McDevitt who transfers to Harrisburg (both in Harrisburg). It’s designed to protect charters, catholic and public schools by encompassing all players and making it more difficult to just transfer. Right now, transfer rules only apply to changing school districts, which in the case of Philadelphia, there are many high schools in one district.

  73. billtown says:

    Neutral observer.
    I wish I had the answer for this. Football officiating is not a money maker. With the equipment costs, meeting time commitment and limited number of games nobody is getting rich believe me.I saw a big drop off when the replacement refs got blasted 10 or so years ago and I truly believe kids today with all of the negative media attention the refs got and still get kids today just say I want no parts of that!!I don t have answers but requiring coaches to ref would be a good start.

  74. Michael Smoll says:

    Donald Young, former football and Basketball coach at Quakertown HS for approx. 30 years has recently died. You’ll be missed coach

  75. Neutral Observer says:

    @ billtown
    RE: need for younger officials

    I know and work with plenty of “Millennials” who are former players and would LOVE to be involved in either coaching or officating. The lack of participation is not from lack of interest.

    Unfortunately, many of these guys aren’t at a point in their careers where they can regularly take off Monday afternoons to officate freshman and JV games. Either they are piecing together 2 or 3 part-time jobs to earn a living wage, or they just have not built up enough good will at work to get that kind of flexibility.

    Friday nights or Saturday afternoons would be MUCH better schedule-wise for these guys, but then you’re throwing rookie refs out to the wolves. Not to mention the COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED resentment from the experienced refs who have paid their dues and EARNED the varsity games.

    I don’t know what the solution is. Moving JV/freshman games to Saturdays?

  76. Brian says:

    Numbers are not the problem at North Schuylkill and NS has a fantastic feeder program with two
    midget football programs that consistently win and provide NS with young talent. I firmly believe that the current coaching staff is not capable of taking NS back to being a dominant team and until parents and fans voice their displeasure with the direction of the football program NS will continue to be an average football program.

  77. billtown says:

    Bobby D I agree 100%.I cannot believe the decline in numbers in the coal region. Maybe the Trump coal revival will revive these great programs!!!

  78. Bobby d says:

    @ Route 54, if you think NS is down, how many times has North Schuylkill beaten Mount Carmel soundly in the last four years? MC has been 6 & 5 the last two years in a row. That’s with 28 players in 2015 and 30 in 2016 and that’s with players from the co-op with Lourdes, with 2017 not looking any brighter. So NS isn’t the only regional school with problems, Shamokin is in the same boat too recently, besides Mount Carmel. It’s no wonder these MC fans aren’t trying to throw the couch under the school bus already. He better do something before they put his head on the proverbial chopping block. He just can’t seem to win the big games, such as NS & SCA. I say give him a chance but time and patience are running out.

  79. billtown says:

    Guys we need referees statewide. Period!!Please consider getting involved or encouraging younger former players to get involved. I coached first then became a referee. In 1 year I realized that if I had been a ref first I would have been 1000% better coach. I am not kidding. In my opinion anyone who would even be considered for a coaching position in the future should have to referee on some level of the sport first. I cannot believe this idea has not been pushed by the PIAA.
    I hope everyone is healthy and happy and I look forward to seeing you all in the fall!!

  80. Brian says:

    Sorry Route 54 but not buying graduation as the reason that North Schuylkill has become an average football program. This was once a dominant program that would consider 2 loses a bad season and now losing 4 games a year is acceptable. The fan base has become complaisant
    and satisfied with being average. That is just one fans opinion.

  81. Route 54 says:

    @Brian. You have to take into consideration the amount of players and talent the lost last year. They won games they should have lost and lost games they should have won. Sometimes the better team dose not always win. North Schuylkill was not the only team in league that had an odd season. Example, North Schuylkill lost to Marian in week 2. North Schuylkill beat JT but Marian lost to JT. There are some decent teams in the Schuylkill league. It’s a tough league. Quite a few unexplained losses and wins for all teams in league.

  82. Brian says:

    Will North Schuylkill ever return to being a powerhouse football program under the current coaching staff? How did this once dominant program become average at best and why is their fan base tolerating the demise of the football program. Just curious.

  83. Tom F says:

    I believe if Pa gets a new Governor next term, we could see the start of Mass consolidations of school districts. Unfunded Pension Liabilities are now over 56 Billion! Thanks to teachers unions, Pensions and the dreaded property tax, The Pa Public school system cost is just destroying Pa. Our population continues to grow older and decline at the same time. 501 school districts! Trim that to 350 and save billions.

  84. Neutral Observer says:

    @ chs1996
    Thanks for the correction as to the current plans. I’m going to miss the rivalries, but I think all 3 W-B schools will eventually be merged.

    @ PastorZack
    I think the Single A schools will be the first to disappear. There are just too many expenses and administrative hoops to jump through to run an entire school for 200 students (without even considering athletics).

  85. Kmac says:

    PacFan

    I left a comment to your post on my “Our Sport is in Trouble” article. Thank you.

  86. chs1996 says:

    Neutral
    The WB Area School District is planning to merge Meyers and Coughlin. GAR isn’t isn’t involved in the current consolidation plan.

  87. PastorZack says:

    @Neutral, for public schools to compete with charter/privates in PIAA they have to consolidate just to have a pool of athletes to compete with other schools. In some cases and sports, it is difficult to support a program. Public schools are forced into only participating in certain sports all the while having to stay Title IX compliant. It is a difficult road for AD’s in public education, especially when you don’t have paid full-time staffs for sports and teaching.

  88. Neutral Observer says:

    I’m seeing a lot of discussion on the Western PA Football forum about the merging of several Erie public schools into a “super school”.

    Unfortunately, I think this is the future of high schools in PA; it’s more cost efficient to have a few larger schools than many small schools.

    I know the EVENTUAL plan in Wilkes-Barre (D2) is to merge Coughlin (4A) and GAR (3A), but I haven’t heard about any other schools merging in any other districts.

    Anyone hear any other rumblings about mergers?

  89. TomF says:

    I would put the manheim/Pine Richland either #2 or 3 behind the ECP/CB West games. Just an amazing game to watch, 2 teams that just executed in the clutch perfectly. A game where you just hated to see 1 team lose

  90. eastpafanboy says:

    2A Predictions

    1.) Southern Columbia
    2.) Camp Hill
    3.) South Williamsport
    4.) Schukylkill Haven
    5.) West Catholic

    SCA-returns a ton of talent with all state selections on both sides of the ball.with the whole offense line returning and a great coaching staff, tough to pick against them.

    Camp Hill- like everyone says 5* tight end with a solid group around him could make a nice run

    South- returns running back and always has a good running game i see them losing to SCA in districts again.

    Haven- good coaching and solid young talent could make a deep playoff push.

    West Catholic- fast team with a lot of ball skills but can’t play [physical football

  91. sausmann9 says:

    @ Phillyboy – yes, no, yes. I have some of the older PA state title games but not all. I lost a few to a Middle GA flood in 94′ to water damage that were still on vcr tapes but I do have some and now all PA games are on dvd. I think there’s somewhere around 300 PA games to check out. Send me an email to sausmann9@hotmail.com and I will reply with a games list for you to check out. If you see games you like, let me know and I’ll get with you on those games. My email explains everything regarding no charges, mailing, extra games, extra dvds, etc…

  92. mark d says:

    @skook Not sure what you’re hearing about Lakeland.I am being told that Dunmore might have one of the strongest lines they ever had and that’s saying a lot ! All 5 starters back from last year and living in the weight room

  93. Skookfootball says:

    2a top 5

    1. Schuylkill Haven
    2. Southern Columbia
    3. Camp Hill
    4. West catholic
    5. Lakeland

    SH- great returning running back (only gonna be a sophomore) may be the year the rushing record held by zach Barket may be broken, Returns Oline/Dline except 1. Loses 4 standout athletes.
    SC- loses stud running back and dback, returns a good amount of young players, SH and SC will battle it again in state playoffs, winner will go to state ship
    Camp- 5 star tight end 6’7 will be a big threat, returns a good amount.
    West- great athletes but can’t hang with anthracite smash mouth football.
    Lakeland- will be a sleeper this year.

  94. Mike Keeney says:

    Wilson West Lawn versus Upper St Clair 12 to 7. Kerry Collins QB. Great game down to the wire. USC won but had to hold off Collins at end.

  95. phillyboy says:

    Yo sausmann9, dude, do you have videos of past state title games. I bought several of the DVDs from PCN, problem is they only go back to 1998. I would love to check out the 1991 CB West/ECP final, the ’93 final with CB West vs. LeVar Arrington’s team that was ranked #1 in nation, I believe, where West lost by a point in the snow. And the ’97 West/Upper Saint Clair game which featured Armstrong. Even the ’96 Downingtown and ’92 CV (with former Eagles FB) would be intriguing to see. Have never seen any of those games.

  96. McD 65 says:

    sausman, I would add st Joe Prep/ Pine Richland

  97. sausmann9 says:

    Alright, how about something a bit different than looking into the 2017 season’s future and take a stroll through the past. Top 10 PA state title games since it started;

    1. 1999 CB West v Erie Prep

    2. 2000 CB West v Erie Prep

    3. 2002 Parkland v Woodland Hills

    4. 2006 Wilson Area v Jeannette

    5. 2003 Northern Lehigh v Aliquippa

    6. 2008 Wilmington Area v West Catholic

    7. 2010 Allentown CC v Bishop McDevitt

    8. 2003 Manheim Central v Pine Richland

    9. 1991 CB West v Erie Prep

    10. 2000 Strath Haven v West Allegheny

    what you all think and what would you all add/change???

    enjoy.

  98. FootballloverAFL says:

    2A
    1. Southern Columbia
    2.Schuylkill Haven
    3. Camp Hill
    4. Dunmore
    5. West Catholic
    Haven returns Oline, loses 4 studs, but has a great runningback returning.

    SC- returns almost every player should go to Hershey.

    Camp Hill- 5* recruit 17 starters return

  99. TomF says:

    The 2 CB West/Erie Cathedral Prep battles were 2 of the all time great games in PIAA History. The talent on the field in those 2 games was incredible! CB West pulled out game 1 with a punt block in the last minute, ECP came back the next year to take round 2 in a back and forth slugfest.

  100. sausmann9 says:

    Prayers and condolences to the Pettine and Bucks family for sure!!! Huge loss for all but thank God we had someone like Mike Pettine Sr come through PA football. We are all better and more knowledgable for it.

    For anyone interested, I will do a four-pack of Pettine’s best games to include the ESPN special for anyone that has never seen his teams in action. get in touch; sausmann9@hotmail.com

  101. Neutral Observer says:

    Nick Lincoln is Imhotep Charter’s new head coach.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/high_school/pennsylvania/20170228_Lincoln_tabbed_as_new_Imhotep_football_coach.html

  102. phillyboy says:

    I moved to Philadelphia in 1995 when CB West and Coach Pettine were still going strong. As a young adult I wasn’t so into high school ball at that time, but I still paid some attention to what was happening. Having a much better perspective now, if I could go back, I would have been at all of those big games. That was an awesome run. In fact I would rank Mike Pettine’s last CB West game (where they 3-peated on a blocked punt in the closing minutes) as the second best Philadelphia sports moment of all time, second only the the Flyers victory over the Soviet Red Army team. Still have the memories though.

  103. Kmac says:

    So very sorry to hear of the death of Mike Pettine Senior at his Florida home this morning. Deepest sympathy to the family and a great loss to the history of high school football.

  104. PastorZack says:

    What kind of carousel do you think starts with the Imhotep job? With the number of head coaching jobs open, I assume these programs may have a more difficult time getting their programs running. Where have the “program builders” gone? Or are school districts running away good coaches too fast?

  105. Neutral Observer says:

    Mark Schmidt has stepped down as Imhotep Charter’s head football coach.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/rick-obrien/Schmidt-steps-down-as-Imhoteps-head-football-coach.html

  106. David Mika says:

    sausmann9….I agree with you on this. It is surprising.

  107. sausmann9 says:

    Not like this will change anything but Easton Area High School just announced their new coach.

    http://www.mcall.com/sports/varsity/mc-easton-football-coach-0221-20170221-story.html

    Now what I don’t get is the fact that Easton “shoved out” Coach Shiffert for a few different reasons but then they hire a guy that was on the staff for 24 years and is cut from the same cloth. Not sure on this one for Easton but I highly doubt we see any difference in the Red Rovers – yes that means sweep right, sweep left, quarterback sneak, 2 kids to D2 colleges, and a Turkey Day game.

  108. JoePA says:

    Hey Phillyboy stop the nonsense about recruiting. It may occur in your area but just don’t promote it.

  109. phillyboy says:

    Hopefully Pine-Richland can pick up some key transfers too. To any Pittsburgh area parents of talented high school football players: you should seriously consider moving into the catchment of P-R so your kid can play for a highly regarded program. Your child will be seen by many big time college scouts and have a great chance to be part of a state champion as well.

  110. Pcc64 says:

    Pasted Zack, I believe Pine Richland will be a top team this year.

  111. Buddy says:

    @Pastor Zack

    Avery & Aaron aren’t seniors correct?

  112. PastorZack says:

    Dave, as of right now, the answer is no. There are others looking though. I’m sure since their brother is at ODU, they will be one to offer soon.

  113. JeffM says:

    Class 2A

    1. Southern Columbia
    2. Camp Hill
    3. Dunmore
    4. Lakeland
    5. South Williamsport

    *Camp Hill returning 17 starters. Barely missed District 3 playoffs. Lost to 3A state runner up, 5A Palmyra, and 4A Milton Hershey*

  114. David Mika says:

    PastorZack, I added Avery and Aaron to my list. Do they have any other offers?

  115. PastorZack says:

    Dave, Coatesville’s Avery Young (2018) and Aaron Young (2019) picked up offers from Rutgers and Army over the last couple of days.

  116. TomF says:

    Class 4A
    1)Erie Cathedral Prep
    2)Imhotep
    3)Bethlehem Catholic
    4)Thomas Jefferson
    5)Berks Catholic

  117. Ngab6 says:

    Dave, I’ll give 2A a try:

    1. Southern Columbia
    2. Dunmore
    3. South Williamsport
    4. Lakeland
    5. York Catholic

  118. PastorZack says:

    @Dave, I’ll put a best guess in for 6A

    1. Wilson West Lawn
    2. Cumberland Valley
    3. St. Joseph’s Prep
    4. Coatesville
    5. Pittsburg Central Catholic

    This sets up for a BIG game in Week 1/2 for CV and Coatesville in Mechanicsburg.

  119. Route 54 says:

    Dave,I will take a crack at top 5 eastern for Single A. I would have to look at who returns the most talent. Anyway, these are my picks. I will hold off on AA for the time being.
    1. Williams Valley
    2. Marian
    3. Tri-Valley
    4. Lakawana Trail
    5. Halifax

  120. David Mika says:

    I know its early. Pick a class and post your top 5 teams in each class.

    Class 6A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

    Class 5A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

    Class 4A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

    Class 3A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

    Class 2A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

    Class 1A
    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)

  121. phillyboy says:

    Brian, very good point about football being an Olympic event — if they only allowed 8 teams in the tournament it could be done; play the quarterfinals right away, the semifinals in the middle weekend, and the final on the last weekend. Like you indicated, it would be challenging because of the need to rest several days between games so obviously they couldn’t have round robin games like the do in basketball the first week. They would have to dive right into the tournament – and qualifying tournaments beforehand would determine that.

  122. Mike A says:

    @PastorZack He had hurt the shoulder against Chambersburg on 9/23 and without him they would have lost to CD the next week as he had punt and KO returns for TD’s in CV’s 25-24 win. He was the lone D1 player on the CV team. Quigley was also very good in HS but not in the same class (he’s going to Ship). He re-injured the shoulder within first several plays of the second half in the D3 playoff game against Wilson after CV had taken a 14-0 halftime lead. He already had one interception in the first half of that game. He played the third and into the fourth quarter basically with one arm as he could’t use the other at all. He was finally removed from the game early in the fourth quarter after Wilson took the lead as the third quarter ended. His loss allowed Wilson to crowd the line of scrimmage and stop CV’s running game. Without Katshir as the go to receiver and defense specialist it seemed that the whole teams morale collapsed and Wilson went on to win the game. Here’s a short clip from the Wilson game. Let it run for more highlights. https://www.hudl.com/video/3/4050828/583ca768c124d8185c288aa6

  123. Brian says:

    football can’t be an olympic event because olympics last only 2 weeks and you can only play 1 game a week in football because of the physical demands.

  124. billtown says:

    Sausmann9. Good ideas except I don t quite understand the vet ref one. Unfortunately the lack of bodies in a lot of areas including ours eliminates the 5 and 10 rule you described. I take no sub varsity games as I don t need the money and I am 60 and cannot do 2 games at the jr. high level. I did 6 JV games last year as we did not have enough refs to cover the games. Several junior high games were done with 4 which is tough especially with our older chapter. Bottom line we are approaching critical mass and the game will suffer if we don t replenish the herd!

  125. PastorZack says:

    @ Mike A I read somewhere, maybe from here, that Katshir had offseason shoulder surgery due to an injury sustained during the season. It noted that he would be back for summer workouts. Don’t know how this will affect his season though. I know that he and Quigley were tough to contain for Coatesville early last season.

  126. phillyboy says:

    Yo, did anybody catch that US vs Canada u-19 North American championship last Saturday? Not a lot has been said about it. At this point it’s pretty obscure but very interesting. It’s a junior national team championship for American football. The US team won 33-11, D’Andre Swift won the MVP, believe there was another player from western PA on the team as well. Would have loved to see the game, don’t have cable TV, but was hoping somebody might have uploaded it to youtube. Not yet anyway. But yeah, pretty compelling, could you imagine if some day American football became an Olympic event and they created a senior national team, talk about a Dream Team, goodness.

  127. Mike A says:

    Cumberland Valley’s Katshir verbally commits to Penn State

    Penn State lands Class of 2018 commitment No. 8 as Charlie Katshir picks the Lions
    http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2017/02/penn_state_recruiting_charlie.html#incart_river_home_pop

  128. sausmann9 says:

    @ Billtown – Dark Knight said it best, I hear the same gripe around the EPC in D11. A younger/newer ref mentioned something along those lines last season. PIAA needs to implement a rule that no veteran ref (over 10 years) can do any JV games and no veteran ref (over 5 years) can do any freshman games or something like that. Another rule could be that every varsity game needs a mandatory new ref on the field w/ the vet refs. I agree though, that issue will cause people to stay out of the profession.

  129. billtown says:

    Dark Knight we had the same problem and still have guys doing it strictly for the paycheck but they are retiring at a fast clip due to age and physical problems thus we have a huge void on the horizon. I know D2 very well and the assignor for varsity is getting much better in using younger and diversified officials in the last 2-3 years so I think the whole old boys network is finally winding down as the old boys are finally leaving and opportunity is looking much better for no other reason than attrition. Keep on plugging if you are good you will get all of the games you can handle.

  130. Dark Knight says:

    Billtown,

    The problem we have in my area (D2) is that all the veteran guys take every game possible, and they younger guys get no work and get discouraged and leave. We have veteran guys working varsity Friday night, freshman sat morn, varsity sat afternoon or evening, minis sun, jv Monday, 7-8 tues. And it’s more than one. Very hard for a new guy to get a chance. How do you fix this??? Only way younger guys are going to develop is experience at the lower levels, and they can’t because a lot of guys are in it for the $$$$$ only.

  131. PastorZack says:

    How’s everyone’s 7 on 7 circuit going? With the clamp down of hitting and the pervasiveness of spread concepts and formations, this time of year is vital for offenses and defenses alike to study hard and react quickly.

  132. billtown says:

    Fellow forum followers I have a favor to ask.
    We need new blood in the football official chapters throughout the state. My chapter in Dist. 4 has 35 members with our average age around 60.In the last 5 years we have lost 10 and gained 3.You do the math. In the next 5 years if we don t see a drastic uptick in new officials we won t be able to fully staff games. By fully staffed I mean 6 man in varsity and 5 man JV jr. high. With the increase in size speed and passing in High school 6 man is a must in most varsity games today if you want sufficient coverage. If these numbers keep going we will see 4 and 5 at most varsity games which will diminish quality and lead to a lot of things we have worked very hard to improve. The most glaring being increased injuries to players.
    We need to keep this great game moving in the right direction and not having enough refs will definitely hurt the continued progress of this game we love.
    If you know anyone who played, coached or just loves football mention this fact to them. The younger the better but we will take anyone who is dedicated and capable including women. For recent grads who will never play again it is a way to stay in the game. All you need to do is get on the PIAA website and schedule a test. I hope everyone is well and I look forward to reading your great discussions this year!!

  133. Buddy says:

    @McD 65

    OK. I’m behind the times, as usual:)

    Yea, I did hear he is one of the best coaches in the entire area. CB West product I do believe.

  134. Mill says:

    Shiffert deserved a better exit than what happened. It’s sad that some people are all about the stats these days. Keith Groller wrote a great article about what happened.

    http://www.mcall.com/sports/varsity/mc-steve-shiffert-column-0125-20170125-story.html

  135. McD 65 says:

    Buddy, Mike Carey has not been at Wood for a few years now. He left to concentrate on his business. I spoke with one of his brothers recently and he said Mike is unsure about returning to coaching this year. He is frankly the best line coach around.

  136. rovers64 says:

    It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here. In response to the Easton change, I agree some changes were necessary to the program but the way this was handled is disgraceful.

    As far as the program goes, losing Shiffert is tough but losing the assistants will have much more of an effect. Easton had, hands down, the best DC in the area and probably best line coach too.

  137. sausmann9 says:

    http://www.mcall.com/sports/varsity/mc-shiffert-board-update-20170124-story.html

    Shiffert out at Easton. Not surprised one bit, heard this at the start of the season. Easton starting to get stale, new blood, new offense, new energy!!! Easton will dominate once again. Now who to fill his spot???

  138. roverred says:

    on shiffert sad day in easton

  139. Buddy says:

    Why would Carey leave Wood ( I’m assuming he’s still there)? I’m sure he gets carried around in a gilded chair by now.

    Speaking of Coatesville, that’s the team in D1 next year! Talk about speed!

    Not sure if they can beat the recruiters, but we’ll see.

  140. PastorZack says:

    From watching Easton in their scrimmage last year against Coatesville, they looked as if they had talent and a decent scheme. What became apparent was the lack of total team speed though. Obviously, when matched up against Parkland, they were exposed a bit.

  141. phillyboy says:

    @ Mill
    Interesting news up in Easton. A while back I was positing that it would be awesome if Mike Carey took over at Easton. I could envision him turning that program into a big time power. I know, I know, they’re already pretty good. I’m talking taking it to another level. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t, Easton has a lot going for it: big school, lots of talent, tremendous community support and tradition. They could be a beast program if everything lined up.

  142. Mill says:

    Possibly a new head coach at Easton Area HS….school board vote tonight

  143. InterAcOne says:

    Any info on the finalists for the Malvern HC job?
    Sources say six coaches to interview on Monday Jan 23rd & the announcement on Feb. 10th.

  144. sausmann9 says:

    @ keepinitreal – good call on that stat w/ the teams not doing so well last season, might be the very reason some other schools opt out of a game with them.

    @ PastorZak – nice football area you are coming from and probably in top 5 for talent and SPEED from high school athletes in our country. funny thing, everyone knows Katy, Katy, Katy but nobody speaks of Ozen or WO Stark. WOS still has one of the nastiest defenses I’ve ever seen for a high school football team. Love the way they play ball down there and still miss it, heck its probably the top public school football state in the country. I spent time w/ Judson in early 90’s. Stationed in SA area (brooks) for some time and loved that little “Rocket” school inside Loop 35.

  145. Keepinitreal says:

    Pastor and Saus your comments made me check the open dates page on the website. The dynamic is interesting in that it seems the schools coming off not great years are gonna have a tough time finding non-league opponents. They are gonna have to prob play non-pubs which kills their points, which puts them like a hamster on the wheel never getting anywhere. And the non-pubs are gonna have to head out of town it looks like since they are not gonna help the pub point systems. Makes the divide between the have and have nots kind of bigger.

  146. PastorZack says:

    @sausmann9, Golden Triangle area of SE Texas. Have coaching ties all over the state.

    You are right in the reclassification aspect of scheduling. Seems that 6A teams only want to play 6A teams for non-league games so that they dont lose points toward the playoffs. But, also about scheduling the right school in that you get some points for each game that they eventually win. Better to beat a 9 win 5A team than a 0 win 6A team.

  147. sausmann9 says:

    @PastorZack – not very routine at all, these last two seasons seemed to have more than usual. The realignment may have had something to do with it/finding different teams that were not normally scheduled but not sure.

    what part of TX are you from??? tx.

  148. PastorZack says:

    How normal is it for teams to back out of games? Seems to be a rash of this. There are multiple schools looking for games, and would think AD’s/Head coaches would have written agreements with their opponents hashed out by their individual conferences…

    Being new to PA football, is this the norm? Having come up through high school football in TX, this seemingly never happened.

  149. Mill says:

    Rob Melosky now HC and AD at Pocono Mountain East High School.

  150. Billy Splain says:

    Big changes for the BIG33 http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/185154783006736064/pennsylvania-football-coaches-not-big-33-foundation-to-control-all-star-showcase/

  151. David Mika says:

    Buddy, Yes…http://www.easternpafootball.com/news/epawpa-state-super-25-class-6a-team/

  152. Buddy says:

    Mika

    Did you post the super 25 class 6A team?

    Maybe I missed it.

  153. Mike A says:

    Happy New Year to all! Can’t wait (just a little over 7 months until first practices begin) for another great HS football season!

  154. David Mika says:

    We could use some one in certain areas.

  155. PastorZack says:

    Dave, who covers the Ches-Mont and western areas of District 1 and Eastern areas of District 3 for you? Beyond the Downingtown Schools, information is scarce on these local teams.

  156. JoePA says:

    Happy, healthy and prosperous NEW YEAR ….2017

    Maybe this will be the year that all of the discussions and squabbling about the so called recruiting non-sense can be put to bed. Most of the School District’s within the State have defined boundaries. The exceptions I believe are the Charter, Religious and top Private Schools. Mostly addressed in or around the boundaries of the State and Metro Areas. It’s about time for the top echelons in the PIAA to get their heads out of the sand and actively get involved in supporting their BRAND. To me it appears that in most all issues the PIAA reflects problems to it’s District counterparts to resolve between each other.

    Just another manner in which complete control is strangling any growth. It may be time for the State Legislature to take a snap shot of the PIAA Policies, Procedures and affiliations affecting the PIAA Brand. I would take close investigation of the top 5 High School State Athletic Associations as examples to follow.

    We need to have more definition on issue’s that require the arm of the PIAA and if necessary change the area’s that restricts, through By laws and the State Legislature.

    We’ll have too wait for any or no reaction from the PIAA

  157. David Mika says:

    McD 65…..Thank you! Looking forward to 2017!

  158. McD 65 says:

    Dave,thanks for another great year of HS football information and coverage.

  159. David Mika says:

    Happy New Year!



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